WEBVTT 00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:13.800 Thanks for tuning in. Hamtalk Live will be on 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:31.719 the air shortly. Please stand by. Thanks for 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:34.479 tuning in. Hamtalk Live will be on the air shortly. 00:00:34.780 --> 00:00:41.280 Please stand by. This episode of HamTalk Live 00:00:41.280 --> 00:00:44.920 is brought to you by Tower Electronics. For connectors, 00:00:45.299 --> 00:00:50.759 cables, and more, call 920 -435 -2973 or visit 00:00:50.759 --> 00:00:56.619 pl -259 .com. And by ICOM, heard it, worked it, 00:00:56.859 --> 00:01:01.880 logged it. Visit www .icomamerica .com slash 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:05.719 amateur for more information about ICOM radios. 00:01:13.140 --> 00:01:18.060 Welcome to Amtoc Live, call in, let's talk, Neil's 00:01:18.060 --> 00:01:39.790 your go - Good evening, everyone. It's time for 00:01:39.790 --> 00:01:44.790 HamTalk Live. It's episode number 236. Talking 00:01:44.790 --> 00:01:49.329 about remote license testing. Recorded live on 00:01:49.329 --> 00:01:53.989 Thursday, November 12th, 2020. I'm your host, 00:01:54.170 --> 00:01:58.510 Neil Rapp, WB9VPG. Thanks for tuning in to this 00:01:58.510 --> 00:02:01.790 episode of HamTalk Live tonight. We're joined 00:02:01.790 --> 00:02:07.709 by Marcel Steiber, AI6MS. And we'll take your 00:02:07.709 --> 00:02:11.569 calls live in a few minutes. Last week, here 00:02:11.569 --> 00:02:14.490 on the show, Jay Adrick, K8CJY, and Lee Height, 00:02:14.490 --> 00:02:17.610 K8CLI, we're here to talk about the new Drake 00:02:17.610 --> 00:02:21.090 exhibit at the National Voice of America Museum 00:02:21.090 --> 00:02:23.870 of Broadcasting. So if you missed that show, 00:02:23.909 --> 00:02:27.939 you can listen anytime. at HamTalkLive .com or 00:02:27.939 --> 00:02:31.979 on your favorite podcast app or YouTube. Or you 00:02:31.979 --> 00:02:35.099 can always catch the rebroadcast of HamTalk Live 00:02:35.099 --> 00:02:42.280 over on WTWW 5085 A .M. Saturday afternoons at 00:02:42.280 --> 00:02:46.659 about 3 .30 p .m. Eastern Time. That's every 00:02:46.659 --> 00:02:49.810 Saturday afternoon. Well, we had some technical 00:02:49.810 --> 00:02:52.550 difficulties a couple of weeks ago. Windows Update 00:02:52.550 --> 00:02:56.830 decided to run for three hours and I only gave 00:02:56.830 --> 00:03:01.830 it two. So the phones were not working correctly 00:03:01.830 --> 00:03:05.289 when Rob Sherwood was here. So he's actually 00:03:05.289 --> 00:03:07.949 agreed to come back. So we're going to have him 00:03:07.949 --> 00:03:12.240 back on next week. and we'll do our questions 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:15.539 and answers with him but in the meantime he's 00:03:15.539 --> 00:03:19.680 had a chance to check out the IC 705. So we're 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:23.159 going to talk about his results from testing 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:30.689 the IC 705 as well. but we'll do that next week 00:03:30.689 --> 00:03:35.150 so be ready to call in next week and ask those 00:03:35.150 --> 00:03:38.569 questions I know the phone lines were jammed 00:03:38.569 --> 00:03:43.449 up and I couldn't get it to answer so we'll take 00:03:43.449 --> 00:03:45.729 care of that next week and I'll start the computer 00:03:45.729 --> 00:03:49.990 up a day early or something well anyway get your 00:03:49.990 --> 00:03:53.189 questions ready to go tonight for Marcel and 00:03:53.789 --> 00:03:56.169 We'll talk about testing tonight if you're listening 00:03:56.169 --> 00:03:59.310 to us live on Thursday night. Give us a call 00:03:59.310 --> 00:04:02.189 and I'll give you the phone number here so you 00:04:02.189 --> 00:04:13.469 can have it ready. It's 859 -982 -7373. Again 00:04:13.469 --> 00:04:18.350 the number 859 -982 -7373. We'll give that out 00:04:18.350 --> 00:04:23.290 a few more times. Before time to call in, we're 00:04:23.290 --> 00:04:27.110 going to talk a little bit first and then in 00:04:27.110 --> 00:04:29.329 the final segment we'll open up the phone line. 00:04:29.370 --> 00:04:32.790 So we'll give you a chance to do that. You can 00:04:32.790 --> 00:04:35.069 also tweet your questions whenever you want. 00:04:35.449 --> 00:04:38.449 It's at HamTalk Live over on Twitter and I'll 00:04:38.449 --> 00:04:41.730 be checking that throughout the evening as well. 00:04:42.189 --> 00:04:44.550 So we'll get those questions in and if you're 00:04:44.550 --> 00:04:46.990 logged in on Spreaker you can type a comment 00:04:46.990 --> 00:04:50.360 there. well. So I'll be back with Marcel right 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:52.740 after this word from Tower Electronics right 00:04:52.740 --> 00:04:58.959 here on HamTalk Live. I'm sorry to bother you 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:01.220 but I'm having an antenna party and I ran out 00:05:01.220 --> 00:05:05.339 of PL 259s. Oh come in. Thank you. Would silver 00:05:05.339 --> 00:05:09.360 -plated PL 259s from Tower Electronics be too 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:11.959 good for your guests? Those will be fine. Thank 00:05:11.959 --> 00:05:16.050 you. You saved my life the other night. Oh, the 00:05:16.050 --> 00:05:19.750 PL -259s from Tower Electronics? Yes, they were 00:05:19.750 --> 00:05:22.629 very successful at the antenna party. My antenna 00:05:22.629 --> 00:05:25.790 works like a charm. Then how can you ever thank 00:05:25.790 --> 00:05:28.569 me? I'll try to think of something. Don't be 00:05:28.569 --> 00:05:31.990 caught without PL -259s. Visit Tower Electronics 00:05:31.990 --> 00:05:34.509 at a ham fest near you. Or visit them online 00:05:34.509 --> 00:05:40.680 anytime at PL -259 .com. or call 920 -435 -2973. 00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:44.139 They have adapters, cables, antennas, soldering 00:05:44.139 --> 00:05:48.480 supplies, and meters too. HamTalk Live. The longer 00:05:48.480 --> 00:06:14.800 you listen, the later it gets. Welcome back to 00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:17.399 HamTalk Live. Thanks to Scott and Jill at Tower 00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:19.360 Electronics for sponsoring the show tonight. 00:06:19.980 --> 00:06:22.620 They help bring HamTalk Live your way each and 00:06:22.620 --> 00:06:24.899 every week. It's great to see them last weekend 00:06:24.899 --> 00:06:28.600 over at Bedford, Indiana. And now they're down 00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:31.899 in Florida. They're gonna be at Fort Walton Beach, 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:36.240 Florida this weekend, November 13th and 14th. 00:06:36.339 --> 00:06:38.720 Then they'll be in Montgomery, Alabama, November 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:42.180 20th and 21st, Ocala, Florida, December 4th and 00:06:42.180 --> 00:06:46.550 5th. Plant City, Florida December 11th and 12th 00:06:46.550 --> 00:06:50.449 Jack Moyers tailgate in Orlando January 16th 00:06:50.449 --> 00:06:54.709 Arcadia, Florida January 23rd in Dalton, Georgia 00:06:54.709 --> 00:06:57.649 February 27th and of course, that's all kovat 00:06:57.649 --> 00:07:01.889 permitting but you can find them anytime online 00:07:01.889 --> 00:07:10.800 at PL -259 .com My guest tonight is Marcel Steber 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:15.519 AI6MS He's been an amateur radio operator since 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:18.980 2008 while attending the California Polytechnic 00:07:18.980 --> 00:07:23.480 State University in San Luis Obispo and he was 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:26.699 the president of the Cal Poly Amateur Radio Club 00:07:26.699 --> 00:07:31.899 W6BHZ and is currently the industry advisor to 00:07:31.899 --> 00:07:34.779 the club He graduated with a master's degree 00:07:34.779 --> 00:07:37.339 in electrical engineering, concentrating on RF 00:07:37.339 --> 00:07:41.060 and communications, and writing his thesis on 00:07:41.060 --> 00:07:43.639 radio direction finding network receiver design 00:07:43.639 --> 00:07:47.180 for low cost public service applications. Marcel 00:07:47.180 --> 00:07:49.519 currently serves as the chair of the Cal Poly 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:52.100 Electrical Engineering Industry Advisory Board. 00:07:52.579 --> 00:07:54.779 He is an assistant emergency coordinator in the 00:07:54.779 --> 00:07:58.420 city of Cupertino, serving as the trustee and 00:07:58.420 --> 00:08:01.639 technical lead for the Cupertino ARIES UHF repeater. 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:06.240 W6 TDM and as the project lead for the Cupertino 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:10.120 Ares Arcnet project, which is building up a high 00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:14.160 speed wireless intranet for the emergency responders 00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:18.199 in Cupertino. Marcel regularly volunteers at 00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:21.379 local repeater work days as an RF technician 00:08:21.379 --> 00:08:24.060 and tower climber and enjoys providing communications 00:08:24.060 --> 00:08:27.399 for local bike rides and triathlons. He also 00:08:27.399 --> 00:08:29.759 volunteers as a technical advisor to several 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:32.490 event management companies. and local repeater 00:08:32.490 --> 00:08:35.690 groups. He's an ARRL life member and has helped 00:08:35.690 --> 00:08:42.649 license over 1 ,400 hams, we'll say, 1 ,384 is 00:08:42.649 --> 00:08:48.129 what we have here, since 2009. Most recently 00:08:48.129 --> 00:08:51.149 working to develop processes and train teams 00:08:51.149 --> 00:08:54.769 using fully remote examination methods. And for 00:08:54.769 --> 00:08:59.659 more information, check out AI6 Mike Sierra on 00:08:59.659 --> 00:09:04.059 QRZ. So Marcel, welcome to the show. Thanks so 00:09:04.059 --> 00:09:05.600 much for having me, Neil. Really glad to be here 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:08.740 today. And we were talking before the show, as 00:09:08.740 --> 00:09:12.519 I normally do, and we didn't get a chance. I 00:09:12.519 --> 00:09:16.740 actually think that we've talked, or at least 00:09:16.740 --> 00:09:19.860 my students have talked to you, because W6BHZ 00:09:19.860 --> 00:09:22.820 is a very familiar call sign from School Club 00:09:22.820 --> 00:09:28.029 Roundup. Quite possible. We've we've actually 00:09:28.029 --> 00:09:31.210 worked each other That's very very possible. 00:09:31.210 --> 00:09:33.570 Yeah, the club just goes through its stages of 00:09:33.570 --> 00:09:35.629 activity and always enjoys getting on school 00:09:35.629 --> 00:09:37.210 club roundup It's always great to talk to other 00:09:37.210 --> 00:09:40.009 students from around the the nation and sometimes 00:09:40.009 --> 00:09:44.169 the world even which is great. So yeah or tying 00:09:44.169 --> 00:09:49.409 together some of the the teacher stuff and Ham 00:09:49.409 --> 00:09:52.070 radio tonight because we're talking about Testing 00:09:52.070 --> 00:09:54.029 and and some of these things that we're talking 00:09:54.029 --> 00:09:56.909 about tonight are are things that I am going 00:09:56.909 --> 00:10:01.210 through constantly with trying to test Students 00:10:01.210 --> 00:10:05.230 and in getting ways to electronically test students 00:10:05.230 --> 00:10:10.830 with hybrid and and then now with the pandemic 00:10:10.830 --> 00:10:15.070 remote And and so these are some of the things 00:10:15.070 --> 00:10:18.830 that that I'm doing all the time, but now it's 00:10:18.620 --> 00:10:21.320 It's coming over into the amateur radio world. 00:10:21.879 --> 00:10:24.940 So there's been a lot of talk about this. There's 00:10:24.940 --> 00:10:28.759 been some going on up in Alaska and there's been 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:32.879 some experimenting going on. The FCC commented 00:10:32.879 --> 00:10:36.480 that, yeah, it's fine. Go ahead and try it out. 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:40.759 But the pandemic created a larger demand for 00:10:40.759 --> 00:10:44.659 this service and there was some resistance. But 00:10:44.659 --> 00:10:47.139 you were a part of a group that spearheaded the 00:10:47.139 --> 00:10:52.080 effort to make it more available So tell us a 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:54.620 little bit about how this remote testing came 00:10:54.620 --> 00:10:59.600 into the the state that it is right now Yeah, 00:10:59.700 --> 00:11:01.440 thanks for the intro Neil. I think you you've 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:03.340 covered a lot of the key points I kind of want 00:11:03.340 --> 00:11:04.899 to just start back at the beginning a little 00:11:04.899 --> 00:11:08.919 bit the FCC uses what is known as a VEC or volunteer 00:11:08.919 --> 00:11:11.500 exam coordinator since about 1984 it used to 00:11:11.500 --> 00:11:12.919 be that you had to go to the FCC to get your 00:11:12.919 --> 00:11:15.730 license Then in 1984, the FCC said, OK, we're 00:11:15.730 --> 00:11:17.330 going to allow these volunteer organizations 00:11:17.330 --> 00:11:20.070 to administer exams. And currently, there are 00:11:20.070 --> 00:11:23.309 14 active VECs. And then like you said, yeah, 00:11:23.350 --> 00:11:27.409 in 2014, the FCC actually amended part 97 and 00:11:27.409 --> 00:11:31.049 said you can explicitly do remote exams. So they 00:11:31.049 --> 00:11:33.830 changed some of the verbiage in the regulations 00:11:33.830 --> 00:11:37.389 to say, hey, it's fine if your VEs are not all, 00:11:37.450 --> 00:11:40.029 so if your volunteer examiners are not all co 00:11:40.029 --> 00:11:42.429 -located with the applicants that are taking 00:11:42.429 --> 00:11:45.409 the test. So that had been used for a number 00:11:45.409 --> 00:11:48.490 of years, so since 2014, notably the Anchorage 00:11:48.490 --> 00:11:51.830 Amateur Radio Club VEC up in Alaska. They obviously 00:11:51.830 --> 00:11:54.710 have a lot of challenges with internet and availability, 00:11:54.909 --> 00:11:58.429 just because it's a very spread out and widespread 00:11:58.429 --> 00:12:03.830 state. And AWRL did a number of sessions in Antarctica 00:12:03.830 --> 00:12:06.529 and in Hawaii that made the news. You can find 00:12:06.529 --> 00:12:09.669 some articles on those online using remote exam 00:12:09.669 --> 00:12:12.370 methods. So those all worked fine. And those 00:12:12.370 --> 00:12:17.019 we called proctored remote exams. So the candidate 00:12:17.019 --> 00:12:19.500 almost always had someone there. Usually they 00:12:19.500 --> 00:12:21.659 had like one local volunteer examiner and then 00:12:21.659 --> 00:12:23.940 the other volunteer examiners would be observing 00:12:23.940 --> 00:12:27.919 remotely. So the big change, like you said, now 00:12:27.919 --> 00:12:33.200 coming into 2020 with shelter in place, that 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:35.779 having that local proctor was a problem for a 00:12:35.779 --> 00:12:37.960 lot. It has been a problem for some people for 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:40.419 a while with just access or their nearest exam 00:12:40.419 --> 00:12:45.389 session was a 200 mile drive away. But with the 00:12:45.389 --> 00:12:48.710 pandemic, it really emphasized the need for this. 00:12:49.110 --> 00:12:52.909 So back in March, one or two dozen of us got 00:12:52.909 --> 00:12:55.429 together initially on Twitter. And then we formed 00:12:55.429 --> 00:12:57.429 a base camp, just an online collaboration tool 00:12:57.429 --> 00:12:59.830 to kind of brainstorm what's going to make the 00:12:59.830 --> 00:13:01.830 most sense here. How can we develop some tools 00:13:01.830 --> 00:13:04.190 quickly to help support the amateur radio community 00:13:04.190 --> 00:13:06.549 and continue giving exams? If you just look at 00:13:06.549 --> 00:13:10.350 the statistics, once the pandemic hit, the number 00:13:10.350 --> 00:13:13.720 of exam licenses that were granted minus the 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:15.679 backlog of some of the mailed in sessions from 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:19.279 just before the lockdown, it dropped very significantly. 00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:21.940 So it estimated somewhere in the 80, 90 % drop 00:13:21.940 --> 00:13:24.039 in number of exams. Some places were still able 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:27.720 to hold in person, but most couldn't. So yeah, 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:29.120 so we sat down and said, well, how can we do 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:31.860 this? And the obvious solution would be using 00:13:31.860 --> 00:13:34.220 some form of video conferencing and then some 00:13:34.220 --> 00:13:36.899 form of computer -based testing. So computer 00:13:36.899 --> 00:13:40.000 -based testing is not new by any means. It's 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:43.769 been around for quite a while. exam tools actually 00:13:43.769 --> 00:13:46.190 the software we're using now for most remote 00:13:46.190 --> 00:13:49.570 exams has been used by a lot of VE teams for 00:13:49.570 --> 00:13:52.110 many many years doing kind of hybrid in -person 00:13:52.110 --> 00:13:54.470 exams where students will take or applicants 00:13:54.470 --> 00:13:57.809 will take the exams on like laptop computers 00:13:57.809 --> 00:14:00.809 or tablet computers in an exam room still with 00:14:00.809 --> 00:14:03.750 the VEs and Anchorage of course they're using 00:14:03.750 --> 00:14:06.129 computer -based exams as well they have their 00:14:06.129 --> 00:14:09.029 you know one local proctor and then the VEs are 00:14:09.029 --> 00:14:12.610 remote in their exam software so Those have been 00:14:12.610 --> 00:14:16.549 around for a while and a lot of that applied 00:14:16.549 --> 00:14:18.450 very directly to what we're doing in the remote 00:14:18.450 --> 00:14:21.210 world. So back in March, March 26, I think, 2020 00:14:21.210 --> 00:14:24.309 was the very first time that we know of that 00:14:24.309 --> 00:14:27.309 a fully remote exam was administered for amateur 00:14:27.309 --> 00:14:30.889 radio, which is pretty exciting. So we had W5YI 00:14:30.889 --> 00:14:32.850 and a number of volunteer examiners hop on a 00:14:32.850 --> 00:14:36.190 Zoom call and use the existing exam tool software, 00:14:36.250 --> 00:14:38.230 which again was designed for in -person exams 00:14:38.230 --> 00:14:42.690 to administer an exam. And since then, since 00:14:42.690 --> 00:14:46.809 March, that group has really sat down and developed 00:14:46.809 --> 00:14:48.990 and figured out how to improve this. So exam 00:14:48.990 --> 00:14:52.470 tools is developed by Richard Bateman, KD7BBC. 00:14:53.110 --> 00:14:54.809 For those that don't know, he's the same guy 00:14:54.809 --> 00:14:57.809 that runs hamstudy .org and Signal Stuff, the 00:14:57.809 --> 00:15:00.850 one that makes the super elastic signal stick 00:15:00.850 --> 00:15:04.539 antennas for your HTs. He doesn't pay me, but 00:15:04.539 --> 00:15:06.220 I actually recommend them. I've got looking at 00:15:06.220 --> 00:15:08.559 a bunch of them here on my bench. And those actually 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:10.460 the proceeds of that go and help support these 00:15:10.460 --> 00:15:12.899 efforts. So that's my little plug there for, 00:15:12.899 --> 00:15:15.539 you know, support HEM study and support exam 00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:18.480 tools by buying super elastic signal sticks from 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:21.320 signal stuff. So that's my one plug that I'll 00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:24.980 give. We have since since March, we sat down 00:15:24.980 --> 00:15:26.519 and said, OK, well, how do we improve the software? 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:28.240 Right. So, you know, with that software being 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:30.600 designed for in person. initially was really, 00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:32.679 really cumbersome. You had to remote control 00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:35.240 the candidate's computer and enter passwords 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:37.600 remotely, which wasn't good for anyone, for security 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:39.740 or for anything. But we were able to find a way 00:15:39.740 --> 00:15:43.559 to at least unblock and start doing some examinations. 00:15:43.659 --> 00:15:46.059 And this was pretty important for people that 00:15:46.059 --> 00:15:48.659 had been studying for their extra exams that 00:15:48.659 --> 00:15:52.179 were due to the pool's license pool changed in 00:15:52.179 --> 00:15:54.559 July of this year, so the question pool. So a 00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:56.259 lot of people that were studying for extra really 00:15:56.259 --> 00:15:57.980 wanted to get that done. So that was one of the 00:15:57.980 --> 00:16:00.700 big focuses. Plus, just keeping the new flow 00:16:00.700 --> 00:16:02.519 of now all these people that are at home realized, 00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:04.460 hey, amateur radio is a great thing, and I should 00:16:04.460 --> 00:16:06.899 probably get licensed, especially in the pandemic. 00:16:08.220 --> 00:16:09.759 So we started working on what we called tier 00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:11.779 two, or kind of the version two of that software, 00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:15.399 which involved Richard spending hundreds and 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:18.500 hundreds of hours coding and a bunch of us volunteers 00:16:18.500 --> 00:16:21.500 helping write processes and procedures and best 00:16:21.500 --> 00:16:25.750 practices and kind of I wouldn't call them rules 00:16:25.750 --> 00:16:27.970 and regulations, but recommendations and guidelines 00:16:27.970 --> 00:16:31.590 for how to run these sessions, what sort of requirements 00:16:31.590 --> 00:16:33.250 on the candidate side, what sort of requirements 00:16:33.250 --> 00:16:37.070 on the VE side, how to get teams onboarded, and 00:16:37.070 --> 00:16:40.129 how to train people to do this. That new software 00:16:40.129 --> 00:16:42.889 released in May, end of May, May 26, actually 00:16:42.889 --> 00:16:46.169 exactly two months after that first exam, which 00:16:46.169 --> 00:16:49.629 is pretty impressive turnaround. And that's really 00:16:49.629 --> 00:16:52.990 been the game changer. So since then, we've run 00:16:53.179 --> 00:16:57.440 several thousand exams now across dozens of different 00:16:57.440 --> 00:17:00.700 VE teams and hundreds of volunteer examiners 00:17:00.700 --> 00:17:02.879 that are helping at these sessions. Some of the 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:05.319 biggest sessions are over 100 candidates at once 00:17:05.319 --> 00:17:07.380 and a whole bunch of sessions happening every 00:17:07.380 --> 00:17:10.960 day with anywhere from, you know, one to 20 candidates 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:13.680 at a time coming through and taking their exams. 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:15.859 So that's kind of the high level overview and 00:17:15.859 --> 00:17:18.680 happy to dive into any of those things in detail 00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:22.220 as you like. Yeah, let's talk a little bit about 00:17:22.220 --> 00:17:28.940 how a VE team can decide to do this and offer 00:17:28.940 --> 00:17:32.839 this and then also how Can somebody take one 00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:36.700 of these that you know can't do the the normal 00:17:36.700 --> 00:17:42.140 thing or chooses not to? How do they know what 00:17:42.140 --> 00:17:45.859 teams are doing this what teams aren't? Um, so 00:17:45.859 --> 00:17:47.980 let's get into a little bit of that of the, you 00:17:47.980 --> 00:17:50.539 know, how can teams do this and then how can 00:17:50.539 --> 00:17:53.960 people take them? Yeah, that sounds good. So, 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:56.680 uh, for people that want to take the exam, uh, 00:17:56.700 --> 00:17:58.960 it's pretty easy. You just go to ham study .org, 00:17:59.019 --> 00:18:01.420 um, slash sessions, or you can click on the sessions 00:18:01.420 --> 00:18:04.079 button. Um, and that has all the listings for 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:06.819 any exams offered using exam tools. It's important 00:18:06.819 --> 00:18:08.599 to note that there are groups that are still 00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:10.500 offering in -person exams. Some of these are 00:18:10.500 --> 00:18:12.279 like drive -in exams where people are in their 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:13.980 cars, taking exams and the volunteer examiner 00:18:13.980 --> 00:18:16.609 is watching them. But you can also click on the 00:18:16.609 --> 00:18:18.329 online option and that'll show you all the remote 00:18:18.329 --> 00:18:21.329 exams available. Read the instructions. Some 00:18:21.329 --> 00:18:23.369 teams are very particular about still serving 00:18:23.369 --> 00:18:25.089 their local areas, because that's traditionally 00:18:25.089 --> 00:18:28.470 how the VE team model worked. But these days, 00:18:28.670 --> 00:18:31.150 a lot of teams allow people to test from anywhere 00:18:31.150 --> 00:18:32.970 as long as they meet the requirements for the 00:18:32.970 --> 00:18:37.190 FCC with a U .S. mailing address and an FRN, 00:18:37.190 --> 00:18:40.109 a federal registration number. So with those 00:18:40.109 --> 00:18:42.569 prerequisites, you're pretty much good to sign 00:18:42.569 --> 00:18:46.740 up for any of those exams. Currently, the VECs 00:18:46.740 --> 00:18:50.220 that are actively doing fully remote exams include 00:18:50.220 --> 00:18:52.539 GLARG, the Greater Los Angeles Area Image Radio 00:18:52.539 --> 00:18:59.559 Group VEC, W5YI VEC, and AWRL VEC for fully remote 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:02.579 exams. There are small groups from Laurel VEC 00:19:02.579 --> 00:19:06.200 and Anchorage VEC that are also starting to use 00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:08.940 the system. Some are just trialing it for in 00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:11.000 person. Some are starting to use it for fully 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:13.359 remote exams just to try it out. And there are, 00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:16.180 of course, a number of other VECs that are interested. 00:19:16.700 --> 00:19:18.480 But those are really the big three right now, 00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:21.460 AWL, W5Y, and GLARG are really the three that 00:19:21.460 --> 00:19:22.839 are running the majority of the fully remote 00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:25.960 sessions. So that's kind of if you're looking 00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:28.099 for sessions, that's where to start. It's worth 00:19:28.099 --> 00:19:31.359 noting that GLARG actually offers free exams 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:34.819 for students, minors, military personnel, and 00:19:34.819 --> 00:19:38.940 frontline. workers. So that's a really cool thing 00:19:38.940 --> 00:19:40.819 that they just started offering this year to 00:19:40.819 --> 00:19:44.000 support those in those groups. So that's been 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:47.140 really great. The others often often charge a 00:19:47.140 --> 00:19:48.799 nominal fee just to help with administrative 00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:52.039 costs. That's pretty normal. So that's on the 00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:55.500 applicant side. For VE teams to get started, 00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:59.339 it's pretty straightforward. We have some more 00:19:59.339 --> 00:20:02.000 details at the Ham Study blogs, if you go to 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:05.990 blog .hamstudy .org. blog .hamstudy .org that 00:20:05.990 --> 00:20:08.349 has a couple articles that kind of talk about 00:20:08.349 --> 00:20:10.890 getting started. We have a Discord, which is 00:20:10.890 --> 00:20:14.170 an online chat community where we offer support 00:20:14.170 --> 00:20:16.269 and have all the teams that are using the system 00:20:16.269 --> 00:20:19.410 chatting, sharing best practices, helping find 00:20:19.410 --> 00:20:22.049 other teams to train with. And really that's 00:20:22.049 --> 00:20:24.109 the main thing. So you'd need to be a volunteer 00:20:24.109 --> 00:20:27.069 examiner with one of the big three VECs that's 00:20:27.069 --> 00:20:29.589 currently supporting fully remote exams. So if 00:20:29.589 --> 00:20:31.990 you're a VE team, and then you need to get explicit 00:20:31.990 --> 00:20:34.410 permission from your VEC to allow you to do this. 00:20:34.450 --> 00:20:37.589 And that's really the key one. As anyone who 00:20:37.589 --> 00:20:41.349 is a VE team lead knows, if you're giving exams 00:20:41.349 --> 00:20:43.289 and the VEC didn't authorize you to give exams, 00:20:43.549 --> 00:20:44.849 those are going to be invalid. You're going to 00:20:44.849 --> 00:20:46.309 be throwing away those exams. They're not going 00:20:46.309 --> 00:20:48.309 to process them if they weren't done per their 00:20:48.309 --> 00:20:51.170 policies. So some of those VECs have very particular 00:20:51.170 --> 00:20:53.009 training policies. They want you to shadow some 00:20:53.009 --> 00:20:55.700 other teams for a while. Most teams are very 00:20:55.700 --> 00:20:57.900 open to have observers and just come and learn. 00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:00.940 And it's definitely recommended to attend several 00:21:00.940 --> 00:21:04.240 sessions. I would say at least a half dozen or 00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:06.460 a dozen sessions with various different teams, 00:21:06.900 --> 00:21:09.119 see different methods of doing things, write 00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:11.279 up your own documentation, take the generic documentation 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:14.119 we provided, optimize it for yourself, or use 00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:16.240 like AWRL has their own documentation page now 00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:19.000 where they're sharing their instructions and 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:21.930 the VEC specific rules that they have. Because 00:21:21.930 --> 00:21:24.069 those can vary, right? Some VECs might not require 00:21:24.069 --> 00:21:26.470 a second camera or they have different ID requirements 00:21:26.470 --> 00:21:28.329 or something like that. So it's important that 00:21:28.329 --> 00:21:30.569 you're just familiar with your VEC's requirements. 00:21:31.690 --> 00:21:33.910 And then once you've trained up, we have a sandbox 00:21:33.910 --> 00:21:35.930 environment too, a training environment for the 00:21:35.930 --> 00:21:38.130 software that you can just play around in and 00:21:38.130 --> 00:21:40.809 run fake exams through it. And then once you're 00:21:40.809 --> 00:21:42.549 trained up and ready to go, you get the approval 00:21:42.549 --> 00:21:45.329 from the VEC and then you get the keys for the 00:21:45.329 --> 00:21:47.029 production environment where you can start listing 00:21:47.029 --> 00:21:49.730 real sessions and start licensing real people. 00:21:50.109 --> 00:21:52.710 And the really cool thing about all this is those 00:21:52.710 --> 00:21:56.089 sessions being fully digital now, all the VECs 00:21:56.089 --> 00:21:57.890 as far as I know are accepting that digitally, 00:21:58.329 --> 00:22:01.569 and they're also submitting digitally to the 00:22:01.569 --> 00:22:05.150 FCC. So when everything's up and running with 00:22:05.150 --> 00:22:08.150 the FCC's databases, we're having licenses, sometimes 00:22:08.150 --> 00:22:11.369 even same day processing, usually by the next 00:22:11.369 --> 00:22:13.829 business day, licenses are posted. And that's 00:22:13.829 --> 00:22:15.589 been really exciting, especially for Newham's 00:22:15.589 --> 00:22:19.109 getting their tickets. It's rare to hear the 00:22:19.109 --> 00:22:21.190 Stroke Alpha Golf or Stroke Alpha Echo for upgrades 00:22:21.190 --> 00:22:25.589 these days, which is kind of fun. So yeah, that's 00:22:25.589 --> 00:22:27.509 kind of how you can get started. But definitely 00:22:27.509 --> 00:22:29.750 the big one there to call out is just training 00:22:29.750 --> 00:22:33.509 and observing. These are new systems, right? 00:22:33.509 --> 00:22:34.809 And especially if you look at the timeline, we 00:22:34.809 --> 00:22:37.349 just started doing this in March. So we're not 00:22:37.349 --> 00:22:40.890 even eight months out from developing this. And 00:22:40.890 --> 00:22:42.829 there are, of course, things that are changing 00:22:42.829 --> 00:22:44.430 a lot. We're making improvements to the software 00:22:44.430 --> 00:22:46.309 all the time. We're taking in feature requests. 00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:49.160 We're fixing bugs. We're finding new corner cases. 00:22:49.740 --> 00:22:51.920 And all these different teams are finding new 00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:54.160 and better ways to use the various pieces of 00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:57.059 software. So like how to use Zoom. If you're 00:22:57.059 --> 00:22:59.339 running a one -person session, it's pretty straightforward. 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:01.740 But if you're running a 100 -person session and 00:23:01.740 --> 00:23:05.000 you have 70 or 80 VEs logged into that session 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:07.059 helping you, and this is what we actually do 00:23:07.059 --> 00:23:08.579 with Glarg. I've helped with a number of those 00:23:08.579 --> 00:23:12.319 sessions. You'll have 20 breakout rooms with 00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:16.819 15 of those being exam rooms. with three or four 00:23:16.819 --> 00:23:19.319 VEs each, so in case a VE loses connection, plus 00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:21.400 a candidate, you'll have a pre -check room to 00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:23.799 help check the candidate's environment, run the 00:23:23.799 --> 00:23:25.640 camera around the room, make sure that they can 00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:28.119 share their ID properly and that all their questions 00:23:28.119 --> 00:23:32.099 are answered before the exam. And sessions like 00:23:32.099 --> 00:23:34.619 that, they take a lot of familiarity with the 00:23:34.619 --> 00:23:36.619 tools. You need to make sure that people know 00:23:36.619 --> 00:23:38.559 how to use Zoom properly, that people know how 00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:40.380 to use exam tools properly, and that they're 00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:42.420 comfortable navigating those systems. When a 00:23:42.420 --> 00:23:44.420 candidate shares their screen, if they're sharing 00:23:44.420 --> 00:23:47.680 a screen from a Windows machine versus a Apple 00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:51.259 Mac machine or a Linux machine, it presents itself 00:23:51.259 --> 00:23:53.619 differently to Zoom. In order for them to share 00:23:53.619 --> 00:23:55.859 or in order for them to close the right programs, 00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:57.400 you just have to be familiar with that. So you 00:23:57.400 --> 00:23:59.339 really need VEs that are comfortable with technology. 00:24:00.410 --> 00:24:02.569 or at least someone in the room that's comfortable 00:24:02.569 --> 00:24:04.490 with the technology to make sure that you can 00:24:04.490 --> 00:24:07.490 ensure the exam integrity and that everything's 00:24:07.490 --> 00:24:10.450 set up properly. So my brief soapbox on that 00:24:10.450 --> 00:24:14.009 topic as well. Right. Yeah, that's the next thing 00:24:14.009 --> 00:24:18.349 is the process for offering this as far as software 00:24:18.349 --> 00:24:21.869 and hardware and personnel. You know, you've 00:24:21.869 --> 00:24:25.269 mentioned cameras and You know this is something 00:24:25.269 --> 00:24:28.210 that we're fighting you know with with with teaching 00:24:28.210 --> 00:24:31.910 high school and you know online right now and 00:24:31.910 --> 00:24:35.930 some of the hybrid setups and and right now I've 00:24:35.930 --> 00:24:38.609 got both in person and online that I'm doing 00:24:38.609 --> 00:24:43.710 at the same time. And you know there are certain 00:24:43.710 --> 00:24:47.710 security things that you can do to help ensure 00:24:47.710 --> 00:24:54.309 that. You know the testing is valid so you know 00:24:54.309 --> 00:24:57.549 you mentioned cameras that's one unfortunately 00:24:57.549 --> 00:25:01.789 I'm not able to pull off but there are there 00:25:01.789 --> 00:25:05.009 are ways to to make it more secure so talk a 00:25:05.009 --> 00:25:07.150 little bit about some of the security things 00:25:07.150 --> 00:25:10.930 and and the hardware that's involved and a little 00:25:10.930 --> 00:25:13.910 bit about the exam tools as far as the integrity 00:25:13.910 --> 00:25:18.039 goes and validity. Yeah, absolutely. We can kind 00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:20.579 of start one by one there. So from a basic hardware 00:25:20.579 --> 00:25:24.619 requirements perspective, the goal of course 00:25:24.619 --> 00:25:26.819 here is to have your volunteer examiner. So the 00:25:26.819 --> 00:25:29.619 FCC requires that three volunteer examiners are 00:25:29.619 --> 00:25:33.160 observing the exam in progress. So our default 00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:35.279 recommendation is that you have four volunteer 00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:38.839 examiners in a session minimum. because often 00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:40.880 someone's connection will drop as we all know 00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:44.099 from our zoom calls these days so you know at 00:25:44.099 --> 00:25:45.900 minimum of four VEs is usually a good idea in 00:25:45.900 --> 00:25:48.000 case one drops out then the other three can sign 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:50.500 and you can always bring in another one just 00:25:50.500 --> 00:25:52.799 to help cover it otherwise technically the exam 00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:54.480 gets invalidated and the candidate would have 00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:57.180 to restart so we want to try to avoid that so 00:25:57.180 --> 00:25:58.980 that's kind of from a personnel requirement it's 00:25:58.980 --> 00:26:00.819 kind of the three to one is the bare minimum 00:26:00.819 --> 00:26:02.440 but four to one is really what's recommended 00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:06.160 for just for improving your throughput and dealing 00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:08.539 with situations. The candidate of course needs 00:26:08.539 --> 00:26:11.900 to have a webcam. Your VEs need webcams as well 00:26:11.900 --> 00:26:13.640 usually because they want to be able to see faces 00:26:13.640 --> 00:26:16.119 to make sure they're paying attention. Everyone 00:26:16.119 --> 00:26:19.220 needs that way to communicate with audio bidirectionally. 00:26:19.539 --> 00:26:21.380 Candidates while they're taking the exam are 00:26:21.380 --> 00:26:23.019 not allowed to wear headphones because they might 00:26:23.019 --> 00:26:24.680 be piping answers in through their headphones 00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:27.900 for example. Generally teams only allow like 00:26:27.900 --> 00:26:30.240 one monitor and you want to be in an environment 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.000 that's not cluttered. So the best candidate setup 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:36.220 that we have is actually in like a restroom or 00:26:36.220 --> 00:26:38.500 in a closet where there's nothing, where you 00:26:38.500 --> 00:26:40.500 can empty it out and just make it an empty space. 00:26:40.539 --> 00:26:41.980 You can lock the door, you can make sure no one 00:26:41.980 --> 00:26:44.240 walks in during the exam because then again that 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:46.559 might invalidate it. You can make sure the candidates 00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:48.599 not looking around at stuff, that there's not 00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:50.359 a window that someone's standing behind and holding 00:26:50.359 --> 00:26:52.500 up answers. You know these are the things we 00:26:52.500 --> 00:26:54.319 have to think about that we haven't had most 00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:57.680 of those happen and that environment is really 00:26:57.680 --> 00:26:59.799 helpful. So for example if you have a candidate 00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:02.940 in a restroom on a chair with a laptop and a 00:27:02.940 --> 00:27:06.200 camera that's very good. Some teams will require 00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:07.740 a second camera so they might take their cell 00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:09.579 phone or a tablet device and hook it up to the 00:27:09.579 --> 00:27:11.440 same zoom conference and then get like a side 00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:13.180 angle so they can see to make sure that you know 00:27:13.180 --> 00:27:14.759 the computer doesn't have any crib sheets on 00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:17.059 it that there are no other things lying around 00:27:17.059 --> 00:27:19.299 and it just gives them better situational awareness 00:27:19.299 --> 00:27:20.539 really because you want to make sure that the 00:27:20.539 --> 00:27:24.769 VEs know what's going on in that space. The VEs 00:27:24.769 --> 00:27:26.970 themselves, there are some policies that vary 00:27:26.970 --> 00:27:28.670 between different groups. Sometimes they're very 00:27:28.670 --> 00:27:30.650 explicit about having VEs turn off their videos 00:27:30.650 --> 00:27:33.829 and mute their microphones so they're not distracting 00:27:33.829 --> 00:27:36.990 a candidate. Some VE teams want those on so they 00:27:36.990 --> 00:27:38.690 can make sure all the VEs are still there and 00:27:38.690 --> 00:27:40.609 didn't go to sleep or walk off and take a lunch 00:27:40.609 --> 00:27:42.490 break while the candidate's taking their exam. 00:27:43.309 --> 00:27:45.250 And that actually brings up an important point 00:27:45.250 --> 00:27:47.950 around VE integrity, which is actually one of 00:27:47.950 --> 00:27:50.940 the biggest concerns because you have... a whole 00:27:50.940 --> 00:27:53.140 bunch of people that are running these exams, 00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:55.480 and it's really easy to just stop paying attention, 00:27:55.900 --> 00:27:58.279 right? It does take someone that's actively paying 00:27:58.279 --> 00:28:00.000 attention and making sure they're doing the right 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.920 thing. So, I mean, the VE organizations, VEC 00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:04.740 organizations have always been trust -based with 00:28:04.740 --> 00:28:07.420 your VE team leads, you know, bringing in VEs 00:28:07.420 --> 00:28:09.490 that they know and trust. And especially now 00:28:09.490 --> 00:28:11.609 with the remote world, if you don't trust those 00:28:11.609 --> 00:28:12.849 folks, if you've never met them in person, you 00:28:12.849 --> 00:28:14.630 don't know who they are, that can be very difficult. 00:28:15.630 --> 00:28:17.529 So the teams actually I'm working with the closest 00:28:17.529 --> 00:28:19.210 now are the ones that I've been helping develop 00:28:19.210 --> 00:28:21.269 these tools with. So we all know each other very 00:28:21.269 --> 00:28:22.650 well, but I've never actually met any of them 00:28:22.650 --> 00:28:25.109 in person. But I've spent hundreds of hours on 00:28:25.109 --> 00:28:27.349 phone on calls with them over the last six months. 00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:30.259 But typically what you'll have is you'll have 00:28:30.259 --> 00:28:32.579 an existing VE team with established relationships 00:28:32.579 --> 00:28:34.740 with their VEs that are all from one area, they 00:28:34.740 --> 00:28:37.759 come together and form a team now that all gets 00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:40.319 trained on the online systems to use exam tools 00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:43.480 and then run those exams. So that's a little 00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:45.579 aside on kind of VE integrity and team dynamics, 00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:48.019 which I think is really interesting, right? Especially 00:28:48.019 --> 00:28:50.740 in this day and age. We've run exams where our 00:28:50.740 --> 00:28:53.359 VEs are spread across the U .S., including Guam, 00:28:54.140 --> 00:28:56.839 and the candidates are around the world. They 00:28:56.839 --> 00:28:59.559 can be. So it's pretty neat to see how we can 00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:01.779 support. We've been testing a lot of servicemen 00:29:01.779 --> 00:29:05.180 and women overseas at military bases that otherwise 00:29:05.180 --> 00:29:06.480 wouldn't have been able to get their license 00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:08.859 while they were overseas. So that's pretty fun. 00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:13.160 Okay, so we addressed candidate requirements, 00:29:13.619 --> 00:29:17.309 some of the cheating things. I think we'll talk 00:29:17.309 --> 00:29:18.750 about that a little bit more actually. So exam 00:29:18.750 --> 00:29:21.430 integrity is of course the utmost concern for 00:29:21.430 --> 00:29:23.190 all of this, right? Immediately when we started 00:29:23.190 --> 00:29:25.740 doing this. we had to be exceptionally careful 00:29:25.740 --> 00:29:28.819 that we can't poke holes into it. So any weird 00:29:28.819 --> 00:29:30.779 corner case that we could think of that anyone's 00:29:30.779 --> 00:29:32.480 brought up to us for like, hey, this is a way 00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:34.500 that someone could cheat the system. Great. Let's 00:29:34.500 --> 00:29:36.599 take it. Let's address it. Let's seal that hole, 00:29:36.660 --> 00:29:38.740 if you will. Let's fix that and make sure that 00:29:38.740 --> 00:29:40.940 that's not a concern. And that's a lot of times 00:29:40.940 --> 00:29:44.400 with processes, with a room suite beforehand, 00:29:44.539 --> 00:29:46.539 making sure that they only have one monitor hooked 00:29:46.539 --> 00:29:50.569 up. they're not wearing the headphones, that 00:29:50.569 --> 00:29:52.730 shades are drawn and doors are locked so that 00:29:52.730 --> 00:29:54.670 no one walks in on the room, that you can hear 00:29:54.670 --> 00:29:58.130 the audio in the room, that you check. Some teams 00:29:58.130 --> 00:29:59.609 take it to the extreme and they'll check under 00:29:59.609 --> 00:30:01.410 keyboards. They'll have them move a camera around 00:30:01.410 --> 00:30:03.190 and look under their seat and under their chair 00:30:03.190 --> 00:30:04.829 and at the ceiling and the floor and the windows. 00:30:05.450 --> 00:30:07.630 And there's always diminishing returns on some 00:30:07.630 --> 00:30:10.670 of that, but the intent is valid, right? Is making 00:30:10.670 --> 00:30:13.269 sure that the environment isn't feeding answers 00:30:13.269 --> 00:30:15.849 to the candidate. But it's pretty obvious, honestly. 00:30:16.470 --> 00:30:18.750 So what's really interesting, and we've got some 00:30:18.750 --> 00:30:20.730 videos online, training videos, and a presentation 00:30:20.730 --> 00:30:23.210 that I've given on the topic as well, when the 00:30:23.210 --> 00:30:26.009 applicant's actually taking the exam, and you're 00:30:26.009 --> 00:30:28.410 on a large monitor at home as a volunteer examiner, 00:30:28.410 --> 00:30:30.309 you've got the candidate's screen share, and 00:30:30.309 --> 00:30:32.430 you've got the candidate's video large on your 00:30:32.430 --> 00:30:34.529 screen, you can full screen it, you can literally 00:30:34.529 --> 00:30:36.690 see their eyes moving as they're reading each 00:30:36.690 --> 00:30:39.329 question and answer. You can see, we had one 00:30:39.329 --> 00:30:40.589 candidate that kept looking to the right, and 00:30:40.589 --> 00:30:41.549 we're like, what are they looking at, what are 00:30:41.549 --> 00:30:42.809 they? So we just asked them, hey, what are you 00:30:42.809 --> 00:30:43.730 looking at to the right? And he's like, what 00:30:43.730 --> 00:30:45.220 do you mean? And he's like, oh, right there. 00:30:45.299 --> 00:30:46.859 What did you look at? And he's like, oh, I was 00:30:46.859 --> 00:30:48.599 looking at the scroll bar on the right to scroll 00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:51.619 down to the next question. A funny little thing, 00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:53.819 but that level of detail is what you notice when 00:30:53.819 --> 00:30:55.960 you're actually watching this candidate much, 00:30:55.980 --> 00:30:58.839 much closer than in a typical exam session. In 00:30:58.839 --> 00:31:01.259 -person sessions, you might have 10, 20, 50, 00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:05.740 100 candidates in a room and a couple of VEs 00:31:05.740 --> 00:31:08.250 in that room watching them. right, at least three. 00:31:08.849 --> 00:31:10.650 But there's no way you know if any one of those 00:31:10.650 --> 00:31:12.430 is slipping out a note sheet in their pocket 00:31:12.430 --> 00:31:14.670 and kind of looking past their exam to pull out 00:31:14.670 --> 00:31:18.710 a note sheet. So a lot of VEs have actually commented 00:31:18.710 --> 00:31:21.170 that they feel the fully remote methods are actually 00:31:21.170 --> 00:31:24.750 of higher integrity for any individual exam that's 00:31:24.750 --> 00:31:27.029 given, which is very interesting. It was really 00:31:27.029 --> 00:31:28.670 interesting to get that feedback when we started 00:31:28.670 --> 00:31:31.349 running some exams. And that's honest feedback 00:31:31.349 --> 00:31:34.210 from actual VEs and VECs that have been seeing 00:31:34.210 --> 00:31:36.529 them. They feel very comfortable with it. as 00:31:36.529 --> 00:31:37.910 long as the teams are trained and they know what 00:31:37.910 --> 00:31:39.730 they're doing and they're following the processes 00:31:39.730 --> 00:31:42.230 that have been put in place. So that's pretty 00:31:42.230 --> 00:31:44.069 cool. And I definitely encourage you, feel free 00:31:44.069 --> 00:31:45.369 to look at some of the documentation we have 00:31:45.369 --> 00:31:48.509 online and just kind of get an idea for what 00:31:48.509 --> 00:31:52.130 that looks like to actually run a session. And 00:31:52.130 --> 00:31:54.049 by all means, if you're a VE, reach out and get 00:31:54.049 --> 00:32:00.029 involved and sign up your teams, right? All good 00:32:00.029 --> 00:32:04.309 stuff, good information, and so I'm sure this 00:32:04.309 --> 00:32:08.269 has raised some questions. So we're going to 00:32:08.269 --> 00:32:11.230 open up the phone lines here in just a moment. 00:32:12.089 --> 00:32:19.490 So get ready to give us a call at 859 -982 -7373. 00:32:19.490 --> 00:32:21.210 We'll give that number again here in a minute 00:32:21.210 --> 00:32:24.750 or tweet us. Or again, if you're logged in to 00:32:24.750 --> 00:32:27.250 Spreaker, you can type a comment and that'll 00:32:27.250 --> 00:32:30.690 pop up here. And we'll come back and do that 00:32:30.690 --> 00:32:33.049 and talk a little more with Marcel right after 00:32:33.049 --> 00:32:36.450 this word from ICOM America right here on HamTalk 00:32:36.450 --> 00:32:40.549 Live. Ham for the holidays. 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It has a 00:34:28.469 --> 00:34:31.469 4 .3 inch touchscreen with live band scope and 00:34:31.469 --> 00:34:34.530 waterfall, 5 watts with the battery BP272 or 00:34:34.530 --> 00:34:37.829 10 watts with a power supply, sideband CW AM 00:34:37.829 --> 00:34:40.630 FM and full D star functions with a touchscreen, 00:34:41.150 --> 00:34:43.730 micro USB connector, Bluetooth, wireless LAN, 00:34:43.969 --> 00:34:47.150 integrated GPS and GPS logger, a micro SD card 00:34:47.150 --> 00:34:50.530 slot, the speaker mic HM243 comes standard and 00:34:50.530 --> 00:34:53.949 supports QRP operations. And the perfect accessory 00:34:53.949 --> 00:34:57.469 for the 705 is the optional backpack LC192 with 00:34:57.469 --> 00:35:00.429 a special compartment for your AC -705, and room 00:35:00.429 --> 00:35:02.889 for accessories for soda activations or a day 00:35:02.889 --> 00:35:06.250 in the park in its shipping now. Visit icomamerica 00:35:06.250 --> 00:35:09.389 .com slash amateur for more information on ICOM 00:35:09.389 --> 00:35:12.780 radios. Join the conversation. Give us a call 00:35:12.780 --> 00:35:18.840 at 859 -982 -7373. Again, the number to call 00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:25.380 is 859 -982 -7373. Or, if you'd rather type than 00:35:25.380 --> 00:35:29.119 talk, tweet us at HamTalk Live. Now, here's Neil 00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:34.190 Rapp with more HamTalk Live. Here's the snap, 00:35:34.409 --> 00:35:36.809 Rapp takes the rig. He breaks through the pile 00:35:36.809 --> 00:35:43.090 up. He's on 80, now 40, now 20, 15, 10, 2 meters, 00:35:43.530 --> 00:36:06.010 touchdown, Hamtok live. Welcome back to ham talk 00:36:06.010 --> 00:36:08.909 live be sure to check out icon America and all 00:36:08.909 --> 00:36:14.949 their new stuff over at icon America comm slash 00:36:14.949 --> 00:36:20.690 amateur Ham talk live is on the air every Thursday 00:36:20.690 --> 00:36:23.869 night 9 p .m. Eastern time at ham talk live comm 00:36:23.869 --> 00:36:27.130 be sure to check us out on Facebook Twitter and 00:36:27.130 --> 00:36:30.969 Instagram and It's time for your questions right 00:36:30.969 --> 00:36:40.269 now. Again, the phone number is 859 -982 -7373. 00:36:40.289 --> 00:36:43.469 Give us a call and we'll take your questions 00:36:43.469 --> 00:36:50.469 here with Marcel Steber, AI6MS, about remote 00:36:50.469 --> 00:36:52.610 testing. We'll talk a little bit about hybrid 00:36:52.610 --> 00:36:58.090 testing here in a minute too, but first we have 00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:03.260 the N9GSU Joke of the Week. Now it's time for 00:37:03.260 --> 00:37:06.400 the HamTalk Live Ham Radio Joke of the Week, 00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:09.019 the part of the show where Rick tells us a ham 00:37:09.019 --> 00:37:12.260 radio joke. The HamTalk Live Ham Radio Joke of 00:37:12.260 --> 00:37:16.079 the Week is brought to you by QRM Labs. Now here's 00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:20.380 Rick Garrett, N9GSU, with today's HamTalk Live 00:37:20.380 --> 00:37:28.000 Joke of the Week. Many years ago when I was taking 00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:31.179 my general exam I thought sure I would pass the 00:37:31.179 --> 00:37:34.219 13 word per minute Morse code requirement turns 00:37:34.219 --> 00:37:38.719 out my hopes were dashed This has been the ham 00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:41.800 talk live ham radio joke of the week with Rick 00:37:41.800 --> 00:37:45.539 Garrett in nine GSU Tune in again next week for 00:37:45.539 --> 00:37:52.639 another joke from Rick Well, there we go Rick's 00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:56.699 hopes were dashed All right, well the phone number 00:37:56.699 --> 00:38:00.119 again eight five nine nine eight two seventy 00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:04.039 three seventy three or tweet us it's at ham talk 00:38:04.039 --> 00:38:08.380 live And if you're listening to us on WTWW or 00:38:08.380 --> 00:38:12.400 on the podcast edition of the show You won't 00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:14.960 be able to reach us live since we're recording 00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:19.300 this on Thursday night So give us call eight 00:38:19.300 --> 00:38:22.280 five nine nine eight two seventy three seventy 00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:25.769 three and we'll check for tweets and comments 00:38:25.769 --> 00:38:29.909 here in just a moment. But let's talk a little 00:38:29.909 --> 00:38:36.469 bit about the hybrid exams and how that works 00:38:36.469 --> 00:38:41.969 and some of those tools that can be used for 00:38:41.969 --> 00:38:46.590 electronically grading the exams. I know we've 00:38:46.590 --> 00:38:49.329 talked about a couple of them. You're using a 00:38:49.329 --> 00:38:52.699 thing called GradeCam. which my wife actually 00:38:52.699 --> 00:38:55.840 uses at her school and I've got one called zip 00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:58.679 grade that I've been using for many years and 00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:02.820 I know that's been discussed in some of the Laurel 00:39:02.820 --> 00:39:08.480 VEC discussions of electronic grading. So let's 00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:10.840 talk a little bit about some of the hybrid stuff. 00:39:12.340 --> 00:39:14.940 Yeah, I'm glad you brought it up Neil. Something 00:39:14.940 --> 00:39:16.800 that a lot of people asked when we first started 00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:18.860 developing the fully remote exam methods back 00:39:18.860 --> 00:39:20.599 in March, they're like, oh, well, how long is 00:39:20.599 --> 00:39:21.739 this going to work? How much effort are you going 00:39:21.739 --> 00:39:23.880 to put in? There's no point. We'll be back in 00:39:23.880 --> 00:39:25.780 person soon enough, right? Well, time will tell 00:39:25.780 --> 00:39:28.340 when we actually can start doing more in -person 00:39:28.340 --> 00:39:31.260 exams. Right now, it's obviously very limited 00:39:31.260 --> 00:39:35.119 and varies quite a bit state to state. But one 00:39:35.119 --> 00:39:37.739 of the big benefits of all this is that really 00:39:37.739 --> 00:39:40.880 most of the work that Richard and other developers 00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:43.619 have done in putting in for this version two, 00:39:43.659 --> 00:39:46.659 for this fully remote exam version of exam tools, 00:39:47.239 --> 00:39:49.679 it's completely applicable to in -person exams. 00:39:49.860 --> 00:39:51.679 And that's what's really great. So we have some 00:39:51.679 --> 00:39:54.239 teams that are currently exclusively only running 00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:56.860 in -person exams still, but they're now using 00:39:56.860 --> 00:39:59.179 the upgraded version of the system. And that's 00:39:59.179 --> 00:40:02.039 been great. You're coming about a great tool, 00:40:02.460 --> 00:40:05.800 a great cam. GradeCam is built into exam tools. 00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:07.920 So GradeCam, for those not familiar with it, 00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:10.780 is a piece of software that uses a cell phone 00:40:10.780 --> 00:40:13.639 or a tablet camera or your webcam even, and will 00:40:13.639 --> 00:40:16.400 instantly grade the answer sheets from the candidates 00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:19.019 in your session. And that's a really cool thing. 00:40:19.380 --> 00:40:21.760 So instead of having the typical, you know, hole 00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:24.219 punched answer templates that you're using, which 00:40:24.219 --> 00:40:26.280 also limits the number of randomizations you 00:40:26.280 --> 00:40:30.179 can have, you can literally have individual exams 00:40:30.179 --> 00:40:33.239 generated for each applicant. They're all different. 00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:34.460 They're all randomized. They all have different 00:40:34.460 --> 00:40:37.219 question order, whatever. And it's a pretty cool 00:40:37.219 --> 00:40:40.099 way to then administer the exam. The applicant 00:40:40.099 --> 00:40:43.000 fills out on their little bubble form that's 00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:44.639 just printed on eight and a half by 11 paper, 00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:46.780 their applicant pin number, which is given to 00:40:46.780 --> 00:40:48.780 them when they register online, which we haven't 00:40:48.780 --> 00:40:50.719 talked about at all, but they can register either 00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:53.019 with a kiosk tablet, like on an in -person session. 00:40:53.320 --> 00:40:56.179 or ahead of time on the website and put in all 00:40:56.179 --> 00:40:57.699 their info so you don't have to fill out all 00:40:57.699 --> 00:41:00.940 those 605 forms. And then all of the paperwork 00:41:00.940 --> 00:41:04.659 is digitized, right? They fill out, sorry, I'm 00:41:04.659 --> 00:41:06.099 bouncing back and forth a little bit. So on the 00:41:06.099 --> 00:41:08.059 answer sheet, they put in their PIN number. They'll 00:41:08.059 --> 00:41:11.300 put in the exam number as well, because it's 00:41:11.300 --> 00:41:13.480 a randomized exam. And then they'll fill in all 00:41:13.480 --> 00:41:14.840 their answers. And then once they're done, they 00:41:14.840 --> 00:41:16.699 just walk to the front of the room. One of the 00:41:16.699 --> 00:41:19.099 VEs takes a tablet, for example, or their laptop 00:41:19.099 --> 00:41:21.820 webcam, or just their cell phone, and scans it. 00:41:21.820 --> 00:41:23.860 And literally, instantaneously, it shows up on 00:41:23.860 --> 00:41:25.719 their screen. Here's the score. Congratulations. 00:41:25.820 --> 00:41:28.539 You passed or didn't. And that's really cool. 00:41:28.619 --> 00:41:30.559 That updates in the system. And then with the 00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:33.000 new version, everyone can sign digitally as well. 00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:35.079 And digital signatures are completely valid in 00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:39.239 all 50 states. So each of your VEs can log in 00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:41.300 or just sign on the other computer with their 00:41:41.300 --> 00:41:44.519 password and say, yes, I'm signing for this candidate. 00:41:44.860 --> 00:41:48.079 And all the paperwork is digital. The CSCE or 00:41:48.079 --> 00:41:50.079 certificate of successful completion of exam 00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:53.139 gets emailed to the applicant right away once 00:41:53.139 --> 00:41:56.260 you close out the session and stuff. And that's 00:41:56.260 --> 00:41:59.280 really cool. So with all these improvements to 00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:02.119 the system, really it's not just enabling fully 00:42:02.119 --> 00:42:06.079 remote exams, but it also enhances the in -person 00:42:06.079 --> 00:42:08.880 experience. So what we've seen start to happen 00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:10.679 is we have some teams that are still running 00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:13.659 fully in -person sessions. I mentioned the drive 00:42:13.659 --> 00:42:16.820 -in. exam sessions before, those literally are 00:42:16.820 --> 00:42:19.000 happening right now. So candidates will drive 00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:21.000 up with a car, they'll roll down their window 00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:23.119 just to crack and get the answer sheet and the 00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:26.579 exam book slid in through the crack. The VE's 00:42:26.579 --> 00:42:28.039 will look through the car, make sure it's all 00:42:28.039 --> 00:42:29.559 set up and then they'll stand outside if the 00:42:29.559 --> 00:42:31.880 windows rolled up and their masks on. Once they're 00:42:31.880 --> 00:42:34.000 done, they can just hold up the exam sheet to 00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:35.699 the window and they can scan it through the window. 00:42:35.719 --> 00:42:38.260 So there's no contact of paperwork touching back 00:42:38.260 --> 00:42:41.530 and forth after that initial pass. And then all 00:42:41.530 --> 00:42:43.210 the paperwork can get signed digitally. The candidate 00:42:43.210 --> 00:42:45.170 can do it on their cell phone. The VEs can do 00:42:45.170 --> 00:42:46.969 it on their laptop or cell phone or tablet or 00:42:46.969 --> 00:42:49.869 whatever. And then submit all the paperwork digitally. 00:42:50.010 --> 00:42:53.090 So that's really powerful. For the hybrid exams, 00:42:53.309 --> 00:42:55.730 you can do a mix. So in a classroom environment, 00:42:55.750 --> 00:42:59.489 for example, or at your local club meeting room 00:42:59.489 --> 00:43:01.929 where you're holding your exams, you could have 00:43:01.929 --> 00:43:04.050 a choice. Candidates can come in. They can either 00:43:04.050 --> 00:43:05.849 bring their own laptop or own tablet. Or you 00:43:05.849 --> 00:43:09.050 could buy, a lot of our teams are buying like 00:43:09.099 --> 00:43:11.500 low -cost tablets like the Amazon Fire tablets 00:43:11.500 --> 00:43:13.699 or similar ones that when they go on sale they'll 00:43:13.699 --> 00:43:16.019 pick up a couple of them and then they can hand 00:43:16.019 --> 00:43:18.780 those out to candidates when they come into a 00:43:18.780 --> 00:43:21.599 test session. Now if a candidate prefers to use 00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:24.239 paper and take a paper exam, no problem. Give 00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:25.940 them one of the printed paper randomized tests 00:43:25.940 --> 00:43:28.920 that you have and give them a blank bubble form 00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:31.340 answer sheet that they can fill out and they'll 00:43:31.340 --> 00:43:33.260 still be in the session exactly the same. They're 00:43:33.260 --> 00:43:35.119 graded, you know, one's graded through grade 00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:37.960 cam, one's graded through the browser. They both 00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:40.659 just work seamlessly and all go into the same 00:43:40.659 --> 00:43:42.159 session paperwork and get submitted the same 00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:44.460 way. So that's what's really powerful about the 00:43:44.460 --> 00:43:47.239 whole system. And it's great. We should mention 00:43:47.239 --> 00:43:49.579 that it's no cost right now. Donations are always 00:43:49.579 --> 00:43:53.940 welcome. buying antenna signal sticks helps pay 00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:56.619 for it. But teams are using it all the time, 00:43:56.679 --> 00:43:59.079 and volunteers help support it. So that online 00:43:59.079 --> 00:44:01.159 community, we've got a bunch of experienced support 00:44:01.159 --> 00:44:04.079 volunteers, myself being one of them, that kind 00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:06.559 of help out teams answer questions, debug, help 00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:08.920 get people set up in the system, and just train 00:44:08.920 --> 00:44:11.420 folks to use it. Because really, all of our goals 00:44:11.420 --> 00:44:15.199 are the same, right? And whether that's one VEC 00:44:15.199 --> 00:44:17.900 or the other VEC, whatever state you're in, we're 00:44:17.900 --> 00:44:21.150 all trying to get more people licensed. Correctly 00:44:21.150 --> 00:44:23.510 safely and in a way that we can continue growing 00:44:23.510 --> 00:44:25.449 the hobby So it's been really fun to be part 00:44:25.449 --> 00:44:27.090 of that and just help out all these different 00:44:27.090 --> 00:44:31.250 teams Now and for those that aren't familiar 00:44:31.250 --> 00:44:33.610 with like the grade cam and zip grade kinds of 00:44:33.610 --> 00:44:36.210 things It's it's kind of like Scantron, but you 00:44:36.210 --> 00:44:39.730 don't have to have a Scantron machine to decode 00:44:39.730 --> 00:44:43.219 everything And the thing that I like about it 00:44:43.219 --> 00:44:47.960 is, you know, for school anyway, is if I make 00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:51.039 a mistake and I accidentally fill in the wrong 00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:55.400 one, when you go in and change it, it automatically 00:44:55.400 --> 00:44:59.239 regrades everything. So that way it, you know, 00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:01.519 it fixes it all. And you don't have to go through 00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:04.239 like on the old Scantrons and like try to white 00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:11.119 out, you know, the... the print out on the Scantron 00:45:11.119 --> 00:45:13.679 forum and everything. It updates everything and 00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:17.219 it even gives you statistics so you can see which 00:45:17.219 --> 00:45:21.559 questions people are missing and averages and 00:45:21.559 --> 00:45:23.920 those kinds of things. And that's what the grade 00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:26.559 cam and the zip grade kind of thing do. They're 00:45:26.559 --> 00:45:30.980 either apps or software through a camera and 00:45:30.980 --> 00:45:35.059 the camera is the optical scanner. And it looks 00:45:35.059 --> 00:45:41.719 for the colored in circles in a particular place 00:45:41.719 --> 00:45:46.559 and grades it with very, very high accuracy. 00:45:47.940 --> 00:45:51.920 And I've been using it in the classroom for many 00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:58.840 years and just absolutely love it. And it's another 00:45:58.840 --> 00:46:03.159 tool. And every VE team has to decide what they're 00:46:03.159 --> 00:46:06.179 comfortable with and every VEC has their own 00:46:06.179 --> 00:46:09.179 regulation. So make sure you, you know, make 00:46:09.179 --> 00:46:12.639 sure you check out, you know, and make sure your 00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:15.900 VEC is on board with the technology that you're 00:46:15.900 --> 00:46:18.739 using because there are some varied opinions 00:46:18.739 --> 00:46:20.820 out there, Marcel. I don't know if you've heard 00:46:20.820 --> 00:46:24.260 that, but... Oh, yeah. I want to quickly mention, 00:46:24.599 --> 00:46:27.300 you mentioned the S word, the famous Scantron 00:46:27.300 --> 00:46:29.760 word. The other thing to point out there is that 00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:31.880 Scantrons are a proprietary piece of paper that 00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:34.480 you have to buy from an organization. So you 00:46:34.480 --> 00:46:36.219 need to have a stash of those available. You 00:46:36.219 --> 00:46:38.440 need to order those ahead of time. or buy them, 00:46:38.619 --> 00:46:40.719 find a store that stocks them, and purchase them. 00:46:41.019 --> 00:46:42.820 With GradeCam, you can literally just print them 00:46:42.820 --> 00:46:45.699 out. So we have, and actually, AWRL just recently 00:46:45.699 --> 00:46:48.440 changed to using exam tools for their exam generation. 00:46:49.059 --> 00:46:51.179 Starting end of this year, everyone's asked to 00:46:51.179 --> 00:46:54.119 switch to that. That was a pretty big deal because 00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:57.880 you can generate AWRL -formed exams now as well, 00:46:58.159 --> 00:47:00.599 and either use GradeCam or use the AWRL templates, 00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:02.980 depending on... what you wanted to do. So those 00:47:02.980 --> 00:47:04.880 are all compatible now, which is pretty cool. 00:47:05.500 --> 00:47:06.880 But those you can just print out on eight and 00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:08.960 a half by 11. So the same printers that you're 00:47:08.960 --> 00:47:11.699 using for your signage or your posters or just 00:47:11.699 --> 00:47:13.739 at home, you can now print out answer sheets. 00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:15.760 You can scale them and change the size too. If 00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:17.519 you need to, a great chem doesn't care. Just 00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:19.840 looks at it and scans it. You can print one out 00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:21.619 the size of your wall if you wanted to and scan 00:47:21.619 --> 00:47:27.019 it. So that's pretty fun. Yeah. And it just makes 00:47:27.019 --> 00:47:29.260 things so much easier and the Scantron forms 00:47:29.260 --> 00:47:33.019 are not cheap. No. I remember buying a lot of 00:47:33.019 --> 00:47:35.840 those in college. You always get them from the 00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:37.199 bookstore because it's the only spot that sold 00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:39.900 them and 25 cents a piece or more and they definitely 00:47:39.900 --> 00:47:43.980 add up. Oh yeah, they add up and when you're 00:47:43.980 --> 00:47:47.539 teaching high school and you're the one... buying 00:47:47.539 --> 00:47:50.960 them and send them out to all the kids and not 00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:54.480 charging them. That's why the bookstore at the 00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:59.340 universities sell those one by one because it 00:47:59.340 --> 00:48:02.659 adds up quickly. So yeah, it's great. You can 00:48:02.659 --> 00:48:07.059 just throw it on a printer and go with the grade 00:48:07.059 --> 00:48:17.150 cam. Oh, are you there? Yes, I'm still here. 00:48:17.170 --> 00:48:20.269 Sorry. Yeah, so yeah, I think great Kim That's 00:48:20.269 --> 00:48:21.949 that's a big one to point out and I think you 00:48:21.949 --> 00:48:23.869 know, just while we're on the topic still with 00:48:23.869 --> 00:48:27.710 in person versus, you know hybrid exams It's 00:48:27.710 --> 00:48:29.550 been really fun to see this sort of development 00:48:29.550 --> 00:48:31.250 right in amateur radio One of the big things 00:48:31.250 --> 00:48:33.190 we always talk about is, you know, how do we 00:48:33.190 --> 00:48:35.050 innovate? How do we stay on the forefront of 00:48:35.050 --> 00:48:37.289 technology and keep pushing things forward? I 00:48:37.289 --> 00:48:38.909 mean, that's really what's been so fun about 00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:41.880 you know, working with this team. And this team 00:48:41.880 --> 00:48:44.559 has now grown from those couple dozen to, I think, 00:48:44.739 --> 00:48:47.800 four or 500 VEs now that we have set up in exam 00:48:47.800 --> 00:48:50.119 tools running exams literally every day. It's 00:48:50.119 --> 00:48:52.719 pretty amazing to see how this has scaled up 00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:55.980 over the last couple of months. You know, when 00:48:55.980 --> 00:48:58.699 we started back in March and, you know, going 00:48:58.699 --> 00:49:01.980 right into April, VECs were very supportive, 00:49:02.059 --> 00:49:03.860 but of course skeptical, right? We had to prove 00:49:03.860 --> 00:49:05.659 ourselves. We had to show that we had good, well 00:49:05.659 --> 00:49:07.800 -established processes. It was very limited which 00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:10.199 teams were allowed to operate. But right from 00:49:10.199 --> 00:49:13.400 the beginning, AWRL, W5Y, and GLARG all had teams 00:49:13.400 --> 00:49:17.719 starting to run exams, slowly but surely, and 00:49:17.719 --> 00:49:20.059 just slowly ramping that up. Like I mentioned, 00:49:20.099 --> 00:49:22.619 GLARG has really been fun. I'd never worked with 00:49:22.619 --> 00:49:24.219 them before. I'm based in California as well, 00:49:24.340 --> 00:49:26.800 but they've been really supportive of all these, 00:49:27.059 --> 00:49:29.579 and really trying to break the system. literally 00:49:29.579 --> 00:49:31.579 with, you know, how big of a session can we run? 00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:34.340 And that's been really fun. Back when I was at 00:49:34.340 --> 00:49:36.960 Cal Poly, we ran the freshman licensing initiative 00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:40.619 where every freshman electrical engineer took 00:49:40.619 --> 00:49:43.599 their technician exam as their second midterm 00:49:43.599 --> 00:49:45.940 for the introductory electrical engineering class 00:49:45.940 --> 00:49:48.860 in the fall. And we actually just did that remotely 00:49:48.860 --> 00:49:51.260 now with GLARG's help and the free exams they 00:49:51.260 --> 00:49:54.610 were able to offer for students. We ran almost 00:49:54.610 --> 00:49:57.909 100 students through remote exams in the last 00:49:57.909 --> 00:50:01.190 month here to get them all licensed for their 00:50:01.190 --> 00:50:03.230 coursework and for their curriculum. So it's 00:50:03.230 --> 00:50:05.250 been great just to see how we can kind of still 00:50:05.250 --> 00:50:07.429 innovate and take advantage of these tools that 00:50:07.429 --> 00:50:10.550 we've built and try out different things. Again, 00:50:10.650 --> 00:50:12.409 with that same goal, just getting more people 00:50:12.409 --> 00:50:14.690 licensed in the right way. So that's been really, 00:50:14.690 --> 00:50:21.340 really fun to keep going. 859 -982 -7373 is phone 00:50:21.340 --> 00:50:24.460 number. We're going to wrap things up here with 00:50:24.460 --> 00:50:29.219 Marcel Very soon. So if you'd like to call now 00:50:29.219 --> 00:50:35.420 is the time 859 -982 -7373 in the comments here 00:50:35.420 --> 00:50:39.280 We have Troy W9KVR another teacher another science 00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:41.860 teacher. Hello from the Flatlands of Illinois 00:50:41.860 --> 00:50:47.909 and he says oh the Scantron. Yeah It's been a 00:50:47.909 --> 00:50:50.909 long time since I've actually used a Scantron. 00:50:50.969 --> 00:50:53.409 A lot of my colleagues are still using it, but 00:50:53.409 --> 00:50:57.969 I just I like my my little iPad app a whole lot 00:50:57.969 --> 00:51:02.630 better. Chris A4CB is listening from Florida, 00:51:02.929 --> 00:51:06.289 so thank you Chris for being there as well. And 00:51:06.289 --> 00:51:08.690 not too many questions, so I guess that means 00:51:08.690 --> 00:51:11.559 we did a good job. Yeah, and actually I just 00:51:11.559 --> 00:51:13.960 got a correction in on my chat coming in here 00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:17.320 in the system We have over a thousand VE credentials 00:51:17.320 --> 00:51:19.840 in the system now, so we've actually ramped up 00:51:19.840 --> 00:51:21.480 even more I can't keep track if they come in 00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:24.780 so quickly these days, but over 1100 different 00:51:24.780 --> 00:51:27.500 VE credentials That's you know each each VE gets 00:51:27.500 --> 00:51:29.800 a credential for the VEC They're accredited for 00:51:29.800 --> 00:51:31.599 when they come into our system. They have to 00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:33.500 of course show proof of accreditation so that 00:51:33.500 --> 00:51:36.460 we can Authorize them in the system, but that's 00:51:36.460 --> 00:51:39.099 pretty impressive to see Some of the VECs are 00:51:39.099 --> 00:51:40.619 just creeping up on, you know, three or four 00:51:40.619 --> 00:51:43.940 hundred VEs in their team or in their VEC that 00:51:43.940 --> 00:51:46.039 are authorized on the system now. So that's been 00:51:46.039 --> 00:51:52.940 really fun. That's cool. And I'm glad that you 00:51:52.940 --> 00:51:55.900 were able to come on here and share about this. 00:51:56.199 --> 00:51:58.719 And so people are a little more familiar and 00:51:58.719 --> 00:52:01.860 maybe a little more at ease with it. And over 00:52:01.860 --> 00:52:05.130 time that, you know. will become more and more 00:52:05.130 --> 00:52:09.090 familiar i'm sure and uh... will mention to you 00:52:09.090 --> 00:52:11.550 that uh... that you did a a whole presentation 00:52:11.550 --> 00:52:16.590 on this over at the uh... uh... the virtual is 00:52:16.590 --> 00:52:20.170 a little bit of an expert yes yes yes so today 00:52:20.170 --> 00:52:24.480 i was blanked out on the name of of uh... eric 00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:27.300 show for a second but uh... you did a whole thing 00:52:27.300 --> 00:52:30.440 on that and and that's linked in on your q r 00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:33.920 zed page so if people wanna watch that they can 00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:36.800 they can watch that and and we've also sent out 00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:38.900 some links tell everybody a little bit about 00:52:38.900 --> 00:52:41.820 the links that uh... that we put in the uh... 00:52:41.820 --> 00:52:44.820 show description here yeah so we've got some 00:52:44.820 --> 00:52:47.059 links set out uh... those will include details 00:52:47.059 --> 00:52:49.420 for where to sign up for exams that sam study 00:52:49.420 --> 00:52:51.539 dot org slash sessions if you're looking to take 00:52:51.539 --> 00:52:54.159 online exams We also have the links to the blog, 00:52:54.320 --> 00:52:58.579 so blog .hamstudy .org. That's got some of the 00:52:58.579 --> 00:53:00.360 articles there from a couple of months ago, but 00:53:00.360 --> 00:53:01.940 they're still valid with kind of the release 00:53:01.940 --> 00:53:03.980 process and how to get involved. So if you're 00:53:03.980 --> 00:53:06.460 a VE team that wants to get involved and start 00:53:06.460 --> 00:53:08.820 using the system, I've got links to all the training 00:53:08.820 --> 00:53:12.059 videos that I've put together and documentation, 00:53:12.260 --> 00:53:13.920 and then get you into our Discord. That's really 00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:17.219 the... online chat community that's been super 00:53:17.219 --> 00:53:19.500 active and really, really helpful to answer questions 00:53:19.500 --> 00:53:21.980 and find other teams to shadow with and to get 00:53:21.980 --> 00:53:24.900 involved. So those links, and then like you said, 00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:28.579 the link to my QRZ, so qrz .com slash db slash 00:53:28.579 --> 00:53:32.739 ai6ms. And that'll have all the links for other 00:53:32.739 --> 00:53:35.440 presentations and specifically for the fully 00:53:35.440 --> 00:53:38.900 remote exams as well. So hopefully those will 00:53:38.900 --> 00:53:40.960 be useful and you're welcome to reach out to 00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:45.949 me via Twitter or email, I'm good on QRZ, or 00:53:45.949 --> 00:53:48.150 join the volunteer examiner discord and we'll 00:53:48.150 --> 00:53:51.929 happily chat there and discuss anything. It's 00:53:51.929 --> 00:53:54.789 always really good. We love having fresh blood 00:53:54.789 --> 00:53:56.909 come in and new VEs come join the system because 00:53:56.909 --> 00:53:58.769 they always bring a new perspective. Anytime 00:53:58.769 --> 00:54:00.710 we have an observer, I always talk with them 00:54:00.710 --> 00:54:03.110 afterwards. It's always great to see what people 00:54:03.110 --> 00:54:04.650 notice, what they like, what they don't like, 00:54:04.670 --> 00:54:07.079 what they're concerned about. and seeing that 00:54:07.079 --> 00:54:08.719 we have an answer for everything. If someone 00:54:08.719 --> 00:54:11.179 comes in and asks some question for some obscure 00:54:11.179 --> 00:54:12.780 form of cheating that we haven't really thought 00:54:12.780 --> 00:54:15.380 about before, that's great. We want to hear about 00:54:15.380 --> 00:54:17.099 it. We want to know how we can make this better 00:54:17.099 --> 00:54:20.559 and how we can continue improving it. The one 00:54:20.559 --> 00:54:22.179 listener question that's probably out there is, 00:54:22.380 --> 00:54:25.539 has cheating occurred? Yes, there have been isolated 00:54:25.539 --> 00:54:27.719 incidents where exam integrity has been called 00:54:27.719 --> 00:54:30.500 into question. It's not always clear if someone's 00:54:30.500 --> 00:54:32.989 explicitly cheated. But when you have a poor 00:54:32.989 --> 00:54:34.570 video connection, or it's a little bit dark, 00:54:34.730 --> 00:54:37.050 or their audio or video drops out for seconds 00:54:37.050 --> 00:54:40.309 to dozens of seconds or a minute at a time, you 00:54:40.309 --> 00:54:42.130 have to validate the exam. And that's pretty 00:54:42.130 --> 00:54:44.010 straightforward. And the nice thing is, in this 00:54:44.010 --> 00:54:46.349 environment, it's not life or death. We're doing 00:54:46.349 --> 00:54:48.530 amateur radio exams. We can simply ask the candidate, 00:54:48.929 --> 00:54:51.159 hey, we have to validate your exam. It's really 00:54:51.159 --> 00:54:52.940 not working with this test environment. How about 00:54:52.940 --> 00:54:55.639 you come back next weekend or go to a coffee 00:54:55.639 --> 00:54:58.539 shop with better internet and come back and we'll 00:54:58.539 --> 00:55:00.360 re -administer the exam whenever you're ready 00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:03.119 and have a better exam environment. So that's 00:55:03.119 --> 00:55:04.800 what's great. None of this is time critical. 00:55:05.380 --> 00:55:08.500 So we can just, if in doubt, invalidate the exam 00:55:08.500 --> 00:55:11.360 or pass on that exam and then come back another 00:55:11.360 --> 00:55:15.780 time when you can do it right. Very good. Well... 00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:20.079 Troy W9KVR says hasn't touched the Scantron in 00:55:20.079 --> 00:55:22.840 years, but they're scheduled to have an in -person 00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:25.460 VE session in a couple of weeks and might have 00:55:25.460 --> 00:55:29.260 to change with the guidelines for COVID being 00:55:29.260 --> 00:55:32.239 changed around. So he's going to definitely take 00:55:32.239 --> 00:55:35.619 a look at the links. We also got a call in on 00:55:35.619 --> 00:55:38.360 the phone. So let's go to the phones. Hello, 00:55:38.539 --> 00:55:43.099 good evening. Welcome to HamTalk Live. Hi, this 00:55:43.099 --> 00:55:46.920 is Thomas, 86KW. I had a question about this 00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:52.760 whole general VE approach to testing, and that 00:55:52.760 --> 00:55:56.840 the multiple choice approach, it seems to be 00:55:56.840 --> 00:56:00.019 less than really rigorous in terms of asking 00:56:00.019 --> 00:56:02.699 someone, do you know how to do this? Because 00:56:02.699 --> 00:56:05.639 giving them choices sort of lets them narrow 00:56:05.639 --> 00:56:10.800 down to figure out what's the close enough answer, 00:56:11.099 --> 00:56:12.739 as opposed to saying, here's a blank piece of 00:56:12.739 --> 00:56:16.739 paper, tell us what the answer is. What's your 00:56:16.739 --> 00:56:19.139 thought on that? Is it a rigorous way of testing, 00:56:19.300 --> 00:56:23.059 or is it just a vocabulary test? Yeah, that's 00:56:23.059 --> 00:56:25.340 a great question, Thomas. I'm glad you're asking 00:56:25.340 --> 00:56:30.880 that. From the volunteer examiner side, we're 00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:34.139 following the guidelines from the FCC and specifically 00:56:34.139 --> 00:56:36.519 the NCVs. That's the National Conference of Volunteer 00:56:36.519 --> 00:56:39.960 Examiner Coordinators. And they have the question 00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:42.280 pool committee that actually runs the question 00:56:42.280 --> 00:56:43.860 pool. So I know this is a little bit roundabout 00:56:43.860 --> 00:56:46.840 answer to your question but with the way that 00:56:46.840 --> 00:56:50.119 it's currently set up and that's where those 00:56:50.119 --> 00:56:51.780 questions come from. Now the question pool committee 00:56:51.780 --> 00:56:55.000 they meet I think weekly and are constantly working 00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:58.079 to update the pools every two years you know 00:56:58.079 --> 00:57:00.739 they rotate out or I think it's every one to 00:57:00.739 --> 00:57:03.699 two years depending on the exact rotation one 00:57:03.699 --> 00:57:05.739 of the question pools changes out and they're 00:57:05.739 --> 00:57:07.320 absolutely looking at those sorts of things all 00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:09.380 the time. I can't speak to it specifically because 00:57:09.380 --> 00:57:11.880 I'm not part of that committee But I know the 00:57:11.880 --> 00:57:13.159 number of the questions, especially with the 00:57:13.159 --> 00:57:15.920 new technician pool that came out two years ago 00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:18.679 now, I think, is quite different with a lot of 00:57:18.679 --> 00:57:21.860 the questions being changed so that it's a little 00:57:21.860 --> 00:57:25.820 bit more rigorous, if you will. But to your question, 00:57:26.500 --> 00:57:28.699 multiple choice exams, they only test so much. 00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:31.960 You're giving them the answers. It's also worth 00:57:31.960 --> 00:57:34.119 pointing out that the FCC testing in the past 00:57:34.119 --> 00:57:36.860 was also multiple choice. So obviously they had 00:57:36.860 --> 00:57:39.480 the in -person. like the Morse code portion of 00:57:39.480 --> 00:57:43.139 it, the element ones that they brought in. But 00:57:43.139 --> 00:57:47.320 that's how it's running today. Now to ask me 00:57:47.320 --> 00:57:48.960 personally the question, do I think that we should 00:57:48.960 --> 00:57:51.539 do a different form of exam for amateur radio 00:57:51.539 --> 00:57:54.719 licenses? I'm not sure. I think for the technician 00:57:54.719 --> 00:57:59.500 exam, the intent is really you want them to understand 00:57:59.500 --> 00:58:02.440 enough about the rules, the regulations, some 00:58:02.440 --> 00:58:05.789 of the basic safety measures. and how to be a 00:58:05.789 --> 00:58:08.550 good on -the -air operator. So when to ID, how 00:58:08.550 --> 00:58:11.070 much to ID, what sort of power to use, et cetera. 00:58:11.389 --> 00:58:14.449 And I think that's really the main part that 00:58:14.449 --> 00:58:17.670 I would call out there for getting them started, 00:58:17.750 --> 00:58:20.670 get them the basic info, and then make sure that 00:58:20.670 --> 00:58:23.610 they learn on -the -air because 90 % of the job 00:58:23.610 --> 00:58:30.210 learning is on the job. I agree with that. That 00:58:30.210 --> 00:58:32.980 license is opening the door. just should make 00:58:32.980 --> 00:58:35.179 sure you don't hurt yourself with something that 00:58:35.179 --> 00:58:38.219 you buy. But when you get to higher levels and 00:58:38.219 --> 00:58:40.980 you start doing new things or different things, 00:58:41.019 --> 00:58:45.119 or you're trying to show confidence, I'd say 00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:52.420 that the bar should be higher. Not just the technical 00:58:52.420 --> 00:58:57.920 questions, but the way they're put to you should 00:58:57.920 --> 00:59:02.559 be. should demand that. And that's all I wanted 00:59:02.559 --> 00:59:04.800 to say. Thank you very much. It's been a very 00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:09.000 interesting discussion. And as a California guy, 00:59:09.099 --> 00:59:12.320 I've worked a lot, SLO guys, and learn by doing 00:59:12.320 --> 00:59:16.579 is a really great way. Thank you very much. Thanks, 00:59:16.579 --> 00:59:18.639 Thomas. Yeah, I know. Learn by doing, go Cal 00:59:18.639 --> 00:59:21.360 Poly, go Mustangs, right? But yeah, no, I think 00:59:21.360 --> 00:59:23.659 your point about the upper level exams, making 00:59:23.659 --> 00:59:25.820 them more rigorous or how to do that, it's something 00:59:25.820 --> 00:59:28.630 I've thought about for sure is I would love there 00:59:28.630 --> 00:59:30.690 to be a practical portion to some of those exams. 00:59:31.530 --> 00:59:37.010 But again, the hobby is so broad and so many 00:59:37.010 --> 00:59:39.489 different aspects to the hobby for whether someone's 00:59:39.489 --> 00:59:42.889 in microwave or an HF or they only do license 00:59:42.889 --> 00:59:45.369 exams. These days, my primary amateur radio is 00:59:45.369 --> 00:59:47.510 license exams and checking to an Aries net once 00:59:47.510 --> 00:59:49.969 a week. and then a little bit of tower climbing. 00:59:50.510 --> 00:59:53.030 But that's, you know, it's each their own. So 00:59:53.030 --> 00:59:54.670 I think, you know, yeah, rigorous questions, 00:59:54.809 --> 00:59:56.690 obviously, changing the question for me. I think 00:59:56.690 --> 00:59:58.570 it's an interesting idea. I would recommend you 00:59:58.570 --> 01:00:00.130 reach out to the question pool committee and 01:00:00.130 --> 01:00:01.769 see what their thoughts are on that as well. 01:00:02.510 --> 01:00:04.389 They always have an email there on their website, 01:00:04.849 --> 01:00:08.389 ncvec .org. You can find that National Conference 01:00:08.389 --> 01:00:11.269 of Volunteer Examiners, exam coordinators. So 01:00:11.269 --> 01:00:13.570 yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate 01:00:13.570 --> 01:00:17.429 you sharing that too. Yeah, I'll second that. 01:00:17.849 --> 01:00:26.070 And 73 This is not a new discussion This has 01:00:26.070 --> 01:00:28.170 been a discussion that's been going I've been 01:00:28.170 --> 01:00:32.710 I am for like 43 years now and This is discussion 01:00:32.710 --> 01:00:36.550 has gone on ever since then and there's we could 01:00:36.550 --> 01:00:41.010 go on and do a whole show about it But yeah, 01:00:41.010 --> 01:00:44.030 you know talk to the NCVC. They are the people 01:00:44.030 --> 01:00:49.159 who come up with that and the original development 01:00:49.159 --> 01:00:53.199 of topics, the FCC came up with those and then 01:00:53.199 --> 01:00:56.159 they said, you know, how to test these certain 01:00:56.159 --> 01:01:00.780 things and it's always been a controversy of, 01:01:00.860 --> 01:01:02.679 you know, do we make it harder, do we make it 01:01:02.679 --> 01:01:05.360 easier, how many licenses do we have, you know. 01:01:05.679 --> 01:01:09.900 The discussion continues and so I think that's 01:01:09.900 --> 01:01:14.210 something that's constantly changing and you 01:01:14.210 --> 01:01:18.170 know, submit your comments to the NCVEC. They're 01:01:18.170 --> 01:01:22.150 the ones doing that. I know we had a project 01:01:22.150 --> 01:01:24.489 where we were looking at changing some of the 01:01:24.489 --> 01:01:28.469 questions because some of them just, you know, 01:01:28.630 --> 01:01:35.550 were just asking factual questions rather than 01:01:35.550 --> 01:01:41.199 testing the intent. I had a big proposal already 01:01:41.199 --> 01:01:43.079 to go and everything and then all of a sudden 01:01:43.079 --> 01:01:46.820 the question committee all of a sudden had the 01:01:46.820 --> 01:01:52.340 same idea. So it didn't go anywhere. But yeah, 01:01:52.940 --> 01:01:58.460 that's nothing new. One other thing I would add, 01:01:58.599 --> 01:02:01.219 Neil, is I often get the question when we're 01:02:01.219 --> 01:02:05.010 talking about remote exams and you know, being 01:02:05.010 --> 01:02:07.110 a no code ham and, you know, what are my thoughts 01:02:07.110 --> 01:02:08.730 in that space and especially around ham crams 01:02:08.730 --> 01:02:10.949 as well, you know, and the freshman licensing 01:02:10.949 --> 01:02:13.030 initiative we do at Cal Poly where we're licensing 01:02:13.030 --> 01:02:14.949 all these freshmen electrical engineering students. 01:02:15.409 --> 01:02:17.570 You know, a lot of times I'll get asked the question 01:02:17.570 --> 01:02:19.949 by the community is like, well, you know, but 01:02:19.949 --> 01:02:21.750 we're like, why, why are we licensed them? Like 01:02:21.750 --> 01:02:23.590 that's, that's not valuable. Like we should only 01:02:23.590 --> 01:02:24.829 be licensing them if they're going to use it. 01:02:24.829 --> 01:02:25.809 You know, most of them aren't going to use it. 01:02:25.889 --> 01:02:28.610 It's a waste, et cetera, et cetera. And, and 01:02:28.610 --> 01:02:30.809 I give a thought exercise, kind of my opinions 01:02:30.809 --> 01:02:34.000 on this matter. I'm very strongly of the opinion 01:02:34.000 --> 01:02:36.000 that the more people that know about amateur 01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:37.820 radio in the world, the better off we're going 01:02:37.820 --> 01:02:40.699 to be. So more people know that amateur radio 01:02:40.699 --> 01:02:43.980 exists as a hobby, that the FCC exists as an 01:02:43.980 --> 01:02:48.539 agency that regulates the radio frequencies and 01:02:48.539 --> 01:02:51.960 has rules and regulations around that, that they 01:02:51.960 --> 01:02:54.920 understand some basic electronics and some basic 01:02:54.920 --> 01:02:57.679 safety measures around radios and interference. 01:02:58.219 --> 01:03:00.659 I'd say that just that sharing of knowledge, 01:03:00.739 --> 01:03:02.500 whether or not that person ever uses their amateur 01:03:02.500 --> 01:03:05.460 radio license again in their life, that I think 01:03:05.460 --> 01:03:09.440 is a really, really helpful thing for our community 01:03:09.440 --> 01:03:13.199 as a whole and for society, right? A lot of these 01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:15.179 people that get their licenses, a lot of these 01:03:15.179 --> 01:03:16.880 students that get their amateur radio licenses, 01:03:17.500 --> 01:03:20.880 they're going on to become the next manager at 01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:23.280 some company, the next engineer at some medical 01:03:23.280 --> 01:03:25.119 devices company that's working on the next pacemaker 01:03:25.119 --> 01:03:28.369 or that's working on I don't know, the next tablet 01:03:28.369 --> 01:03:30.510 or laptop computer or Kindle product or something. 01:03:31.190 --> 01:03:34.389 And they will have this background knowledge 01:03:34.389 --> 01:03:37.269 knowing that some of these skills and techniques 01:03:37.269 --> 01:03:39.309 exist or that some of these regulations exist. 01:03:39.630 --> 01:03:42.730 And I think that that's inherently valuable too. 01:03:42.840 --> 01:03:45.239 the greater society from that sense, but definitely 01:03:45.239 --> 01:03:47.280 to the amateur radio hobby. Um, cause how many 01:03:47.280 --> 01:03:48.920 times do you have to explain to someone what 01:03:48.920 --> 01:03:51.559 amateur radio is, right? So every person we license 01:03:51.559 --> 01:03:54.880 is one fewer people, fewer person. And you left 01:03:54.880 --> 01:03:59.559 out one important, uh, one important, um, thing 01:03:59.559 --> 01:04:02.800 about people who need to know about ham radio. 01:04:02.960 --> 01:04:05.559 And that's, you know, not only are there people 01:04:05.559 --> 01:04:07.900 working on medical devices and all those kinds 01:04:07.900 --> 01:04:10.480 of things, but there are people that are on homeowners 01:04:10.480 --> 01:04:15.119 association boards. Yep. Oh absolutely need to 01:04:15.119 --> 01:04:19.159 know about ham radio I'm in that boat myself 01:04:19.159 --> 01:04:22.559 right now I'm looking at my j -pole that's inside 01:04:22.559 --> 01:04:24.139 the building right because you can't put anything 01:04:24.139 --> 01:04:26.579 on the outside So yeah, absolutely right and 01:04:26.579 --> 01:04:28.260 that's exactly the point right the more people 01:04:28.260 --> 01:04:30.460 that are familiar with it and understand it and 01:04:30.460 --> 01:04:33.880 and recognize the value that it brings the better 01:04:33.880 --> 01:04:36.500 off and regulatory is absolutely a factor in 01:04:36.500 --> 01:04:38.300 that as well. It's been really fun. We've had 01:04:38.300 --> 01:04:40.420 a number of professors at Cal Poly, including 01:04:40.420 --> 01:04:42.460 the former department chair. They're all licensed 01:04:42.460 --> 01:04:45.079 and they definitely set the example. And when 01:04:45.079 --> 01:04:47.659 students see that and they see how that's helped 01:04:47.659 --> 01:04:50.659 their hobby, you know, I actually, my amateur 01:04:50.659 --> 01:04:54.099 radio license got me my job. So those are all 01:04:54.099 --> 01:04:56.159 fun examples that I think are really relevant 01:04:56.159 --> 01:04:58.000 and just, you know, go to show we should get 01:04:58.000 --> 01:04:59.980 more people licensed. So keep up the good work 01:04:59.980 --> 01:05:05.139 VEs. There we go. Yeah, Troy says my father -in 01:05:05.139 --> 01:05:11.840 -law is one of them and people who get licensed 01:05:11.840 --> 01:05:15.559 early on kind of put it on the shelf, but then 01:05:15.559 --> 01:05:20.099 later on, you know, there they are. And that 01:05:20.099 --> 01:05:24.489 happens a lot. Well, we have gone over time here 01:05:24.489 --> 01:05:26.670 at Marcell, but it's been a good conversation. 01:05:26.889 --> 01:05:30.889 I think we've learned a lot tonight about the 01:05:30.889 --> 01:05:35.829 testing and different ways to do that and different 01:05:35.829 --> 01:05:40.429 ways to help the security and validity of all 01:05:40.429 --> 01:05:43.150 of this. So I thank you for coming on the show 01:05:43.150 --> 01:05:48.820 and talking with us. and we'll see how all this 01:05:48.820 --> 01:05:52.579 progresses as time marches on. So thanks so much. 01:05:53.300 --> 01:05:54.420 Thanks so much for having me on the show, Neil. 01:05:54.579 --> 01:05:57.139 It's really great to share it with more people 01:05:57.139 --> 01:06:00.679 and just help more VEs and teams and hams understand 01:06:00.679 --> 01:06:02.780 what we're doing and how they can contribute 01:06:02.780 --> 01:06:05.639 and how we can keep making the hobby better. 01:06:06.099 --> 01:06:07.239 So thanks very much for having me on the show, 01:06:07.360 --> 01:06:10.889 Neil. Seven threes. Alright Marcel, 7 -3 to you. 01:06:11.010 --> 01:06:14.030 And that's a wrap for this week's edition of 01:06:14.030 --> 01:06:17.050 HamTalk Live. Thanks to my guest Marcel Steber, 01:06:17.190 --> 01:06:19.929 AI6MS, and everybody out there in cyberspace 01:06:19.929 --> 01:06:22.940 for listening, calling in, typing in. and invite 01:06:22.940 --> 01:06:25.219 you back next Thursday night, 9 p .m. Eastern 01:06:25.219 --> 01:06:28.179 Time, when again, Rob Sherwood, NC0B, will be 01:06:28.179 --> 01:06:31.639 back to take your calls and talk a little bit 01:06:31.639 --> 01:06:35.619 about the IC705. For a list of all of our upcoming 01:06:35.619 --> 01:06:38.340 guests, visit HamTalkLive .com. And if you like 01:06:38.340 --> 01:06:41.880 the show, please leave us a review. That's the 01:06:41.880 --> 01:06:45.119 best thing you can do so other people can find 01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:49.300 us faster. So for now, this is Neil Rapp, WB9VPG. 01:06:49.659 --> 01:06:55.139 Sing 7375 and may the good DX be yours!