WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.620 This episode of HamTalk Live is brought to you 00:00:02.620 --> 00:00:06.019 by Tower Electronics. For connectors, cables, 00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:12.939 and more, call 920 -435 -2973 or visit pl -259 00:00:12.939 --> 00:00:17.640 .com. And by ICOM, heard it, worked it, logged 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:22.859 it. Visit www .icomamerica .com slash amateur 00:00:22.859 --> 00:00:31.479 for more information about ICOM radios. Here 00:00:31.479 --> 00:00:37.880 we go, welcome to Hamtop Live Call in, let's 00:00:37.880 --> 00:00:41.840 talk, Neil's your guide Hamtop Live, here we 00:00:41.840 --> 00:01:00.130 go on Hamtop Live Good evening, everyone. It's 00:01:00.130 --> 00:01:04.510 time for HamTalk Live. It's episode number 267. 00:01:05.590 --> 00:01:09.930 Why should I buy a remote antenna tuner? Recorded 00:01:09.930 --> 00:01:13.969 live on Thursday, August 12th, 2021. I'm your 00:01:13.969 --> 00:01:17.810 host, Neil Rapp, WB9VPG. Thanks for tuning in. 00:01:18.310 --> 00:01:22.349 This episode of HamTalk Live. Tonight we're joined 00:01:22.349 --> 00:01:27.939 by John Portun, W6NBC. and we'll take your calls 00:01:27.939 --> 00:01:31.840 live in a little bit. Last week here on the show, 00:01:31.980 --> 00:01:35.180 Karen Eve Murray, Katie2GUT was here to talk 00:01:35.180 --> 00:01:38.420 about the latest news from Amateur Radio Newsline. 00:01:38.900 --> 00:01:41.379 And if you missed that show, you can listen anytime 00:01:41.379 --> 00:01:44.599 at HamTalkLive .com or on your favorite podcast 00:01:44.599 --> 00:01:49.379 app or on YouTube, or you can catch the rebroadcast 00:01:49.379 --> 00:01:56.439 of Ham talk live on WTWW that's 5085 on the AM 00:01:56.439 --> 00:02:00.859 dial Saturday afternoons at about 3 30 p .m. 00:02:01.299 --> 00:02:04.459 Eastern Time So get your questions ready to go 00:02:04.459 --> 00:02:08.860 here about the remote antenna tuners If you're 00:02:08.860 --> 00:02:11.120 listening to us live on Thursday night, you can 00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:15.159 give us a call after We introduce everything 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:18.240 here And let me give you the telephone number 00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:21.580 so you have it ready to go write it down punch 00:02:21.580 --> 00:02:26.319 it in Whatever works for you, but I'll go ahead 00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:28.000 and give you the phone number So you'll have 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:31.020 it ready and then we'll take calls later on in 00:02:31.020 --> 00:02:37.840 the show The number is eight five nine 9 8 2 00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:47.680 73 73 again that's 8 5 9 9 8 2 73 73 you can 00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:50.659 also tweet us it's at ham talk live on Twitter 00:02:50.659 --> 00:02:54.199 and I will be back with John right after this 00:02:54.199 --> 00:02:57.240 word from tower electronics right here on ham 00:02:57.240 --> 00:03:02.550 talk live Thanks for choosing Tower Electronics. 00:03:02.969 --> 00:03:07.009 How may we help you today? We have PL259s, we 00:03:07.009 --> 00:03:10.330 have in connectors, we have SMA adapters, we 00:03:10.330 --> 00:03:13.169 have BNC adapters. What can I show you today? 00:03:13.389 --> 00:03:16.590 Where's the tower? Well, we don't actually have 00:03:16.590 --> 00:03:19.699 a tower with us. But we have all kinds of things 00:03:19.699 --> 00:03:22.680 you can use with a tower. We have power poles, 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:25.639 antennas, soldering irons and meters. Where's 00:03:25.639 --> 00:03:28.919 the tower? Ma 'am, that's the name of our company. 00:03:29.460 --> 00:03:32.039 We can't haul towers to all the ham fest across 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:34.500 the country that we visit, but we have almost 00:03:34.500 --> 00:03:37.080 every connector and adapter you would need to 00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:39.159 connect your antenna that's on your tower. I 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:41.520 don't think there's a tower back there. I really 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:44.960 don't. Tower Electronics. Visit us at a HamFest 00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:50.560 near you or call 920 -435 -2973 or see our whole 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:54.580 catalog at PL -259 .com. Sorry, one thing we 00:03:54.580 --> 00:03:58.780 don't have is a tower. Two antennas met on a 00:03:58.780 --> 00:04:01.860 roof, fell in love and got married. The ceremony 00:04:01.860 --> 00:04:04.580 wasn't much, but the reception was excellent. 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:07.800 You're listening to HamTalk Live with Neil Rapp. 00:04:34.130 --> 00:04:40.029 ham talk live tonight John fortune w6 in BC joins 00:04:40.029 --> 00:04:43.490 us on the Orlando amateur radio club and hamcation 00:04:43.490 --> 00:04:48.410 hotline John's been a ham since 1965 and active 00:04:48.410 --> 00:04:52.589 on 160 meters all the way up to 2 .4 gigahertz 00:04:52.589 --> 00:04:58.110 and helps people get licensed and helps new licensees 00:04:59.260 --> 00:05:02.920 further their ham radio experience. He manages 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:06.680 a remote base on HF and VHF at Vandenberg Air 00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:10.120 Force Base, does a lot of local 2 meter and 40 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:12.540 meter mobile from his RV and he's married to 00:05:12.540 --> 00:05:17.029 KF -6 OEB. has three married children 12 grandchildren 00:05:17.029 --> 00:05:22.110 John retired in 2002 Spent most of his time working 00:05:22.110 --> 00:05:29.250 at his call reflects KNBC in Los Angeles and 00:05:29.250 --> 00:05:33.389 also Ampex Corporation and Sony Electronics which 00:05:33.389 --> 00:05:38.069 all of us former broadcasters will recognize 00:05:39.860 --> 00:05:44.060 those companies. So John, welcome back and tonight 00:05:44.060 --> 00:05:48.980 we're talking about some antenna tuners. Indeed, 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:54.060 one of my favorite topics. Alright, so you asked 00:05:54.060 --> 00:05:59.579 the question, why should I buy a remote antenna 00:05:59.579 --> 00:06:03.839 tuner? So let's take a look at why we should 00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:07.639 do that. What are the advantages to doing a remote 00:06:07.639 --> 00:06:13.819 antenna tuner? Well, it's not so much as much 00:06:13.819 --> 00:06:17.279 advantage. It's more a necessity and that's something 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:22.639 that many hams don't realize. Auto tuners in 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:24.399 general, of course, have been around for a long 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:28.180 time. We know them very well. But to a large 00:06:28.180 --> 00:06:31.000 degree tuners are still rather mysterious to 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:33.740 many hams. They believe a lot of myths about 00:06:33.740 --> 00:06:37.899 them and often use them incorrectly. Part of 00:06:37.899 --> 00:06:41.480 the reason they do that is because they lack 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:46.060 a clear understanding of two things, that there 00:06:46.060 --> 00:06:49.899 are two classes of tuners and two classes of 00:06:49.899 --> 00:06:53.860 antennas, and that these must be properly matched. 00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:57.560 I can go into that in a minute, but that's an 00:06:57.560 --> 00:07:00.279 introduction to this thing. We can go into those 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:06.149 two topics here in a second. Yeah, sure. So yeah, 00:07:06.149 --> 00:07:09.009 that was one of the things that Definitely want 00:07:09.009 --> 00:07:11.889 to get into you know, I've got this nice little 00:07:11.889 --> 00:07:15.009 little automatic antenna tuner inside of my rig 00:07:15.009 --> 00:07:19.410 Why do I need something else and? There are times 00:07:19.410 --> 00:07:23.470 when you need that something else Absolutely, 00:07:23.470 --> 00:07:29.389 well if we if we look at tuners in general as 00:07:29.389 --> 00:07:32.560 they appear today For a long time, they've been 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:36.660 pretty stable from early on in ham radio. But 00:07:36.660 --> 00:07:38.939 if we look at tuners today, there are two different 00:07:38.939 --> 00:07:42.459 kinds or two different classes of tuners. Ones 00:07:42.459 --> 00:07:45.040 that you have in your shack that sit right next 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:47.980 to your rig. I have a couple of them sitting 00:07:47.980 --> 00:07:52.240 up there. And ones that you put out at the antenna. 00:07:52.980 --> 00:07:56.339 Those are the newbies on the block for most hams. 00:07:56.800 --> 00:08:00.220 And most hams are not very aware. of why they 00:08:00.220 --> 00:08:02.560 would want to do that, why they would even want 00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:06.439 to put an antenna tuner out there. Seems to most 00:08:06.439 --> 00:08:09.279 hams, all I need is one antenna tuner in the 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:12.860 shack, and it'll do everything for me. For example, 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:16.579 I'm thinking about an MFJ Versa tuner that I 00:08:16.579 --> 00:08:19.139 have, nice big three kilowatt thing, works very 00:08:19.139 --> 00:08:22.240 well sitting here in the shack, and it's a very 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:25.680 good tuner. But I also think, as you mentioned, 00:08:25.879 --> 00:08:29.560 about Antenna tuners built into the rig. People 00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:32.120 say, oh, well, I bought that fancy radio and 00:08:32.120 --> 00:08:34.179 it's got an antenna tuner in there. That's all 00:08:34.179 --> 00:08:38.580 I ever need. Oh, no, that is not true. And also 00:08:38.580 --> 00:08:42.580 recently other in -shack tuners, auto tuners 00:08:42.580 --> 00:08:45.840 have appeared. For example, Palstar has a beautiful 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:52.100 big one. MFJ has a new one. LDG makes a good 00:08:52.100 --> 00:08:55.440 one. I have an LDG 1000 auto tuner here in the 00:08:55.440 --> 00:09:00.090 shack. And that's what people think, that there's 00:09:00.090 --> 00:09:02.830 a universal tuner that they can use everywhere. 00:09:03.070 --> 00:09:06.250 That's just not true. And it's because of the 00:09:06.250 --> 00:09:08.289 second topic, which I'll mention here in a minute. 00:09:11.590 --> 00:09:15.289 Well, you know, what are the times, when does 00:09:15.289 --> 00:09:19.210 that little nice little tuner button on your 00:09:19.210 --> 00:09:23.789 radio not cut, you know, cut the mustard here? 00:09:24.309 --> 00:09:29.580 Where does it not? Is it not sufficient? Well, 00:09:29.639 --> 00:09:32.000 Ham's began learning about this back some years 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:36.620 ago when SGC introduced the first remote auto 00:09:36.620 --> 00:09:42.039 tuner. Or when ICOM brought out the little AH4, 00:09:42.059 --> 00:09:45.559 which I've used very successfully in my mobile 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:49.480 to tune up a CB whip on all bands. Had some great 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:51.860 shootouts with all sorts of fancy screwdrivers. 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:55.970 They work well. people like MFJ got into the 00:09:55.970 --> 00:10:00.490 market. But the big reason for a remote autotuner 00:10:00.490 --> 00:10:04.769 is that there are two classes of antennas. This 00:10:04.769 --> 00:10:07.970 is kind of new to most amps. And the two classes 00:10:07.970 --> 00:10:11.169 of antennas, and they pretty much match the tuner 00:10:11.169 --> 00:10:17.009 types in rig and in shack and at the base. They 00:10:17.009 --> 00:10:19.809 pretty much match these two classes of antennas. 00:10:20.090 --> 00:10:25.019 Those antennas are resonant antennas. and non 00:10:25.019 --> 00:10:28.100 -resonant antennas. Let's think about those two 00:10:28.100 --> 00:10:32.000 for a minute here. Let's consider resonant antennas, 00:10:32.259 --> 00:10:34.639 because this is the kind of antennas most hams 00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:38.759 today are used to. Our pioneers back in the 20s 00:10:38.759 --> 00:10:41.799 understood non -resonant antennas better. But 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:44.960 today, most hams expect to have a resonant antenna. 00:10:45.379 --> 00:10:48.159 What's a resonant antenna? It's one that you 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:52.720 can hook a SWR analyzer to. and no matter what 00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:55.460 band you put it on that it's made for, it'll 00:10:55.460 --> 00:10:59.360 show you pretty close to a 1 to 1 SWR. A good 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:02.100 example might be a big beam that you would buy, 00:11:02.620 --> 00:11:05.799 or perhaps a spider beam, or maybe you've got 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:10.860 a 5BTV from Hustler that has some traps in it. 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:14.139 You hook an antenna analyzer to those guys on 00:11:14.139 --> 00:11:16.159 the bands that they're made for, they'll show 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:20.639 you a low SWR. That's a resonant antenna. But 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:22.799 now what's the other kind of an antenna? And 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:25.919 this is the new one to a lot of hams. They only 00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:29.440 think in terms of resonant antennas. And by the 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:31.580 way, another common resonant antenna is just 00:11:31.580 --> 00:11:34.679 a simple dipole that you've used the magic formula 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:37.600 and cut it to length. That's a resonant antenna. 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:40.860 It's tuned to a resonant frequency. But what 00:11:40.860 --> 00:11:43.220 are non -resonant antennas? That's kind of a 00:11:43.220 --> 00:11:47.240 misnomer to many hams. Well, the military uses 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:49.759 them frequently. or they'll put random whips 00:11:49.759 --> 00:11:53.080 on the back of their Humvees. And there, they've 00:11:53.080 --> 00:11:55.320 got a non -resonant antenna, and yet they use 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:58.820 it on all HF bands. How do they do that? They 00:11:58.820 --> 00:12:02.600 do it with a coupler or a matching box or a remote 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:06.480 autotuner. Another example of a non -resonant 00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:08.879 antenna. And have you guys out there ever thought 00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:10.820 about running a loop or wire around the edge 00:12:10.820 --> 00:12:13.659 of your house? And of course, a lot of people 00:12:13.659 --> 00:12:16.399 ask me about that one. Well, that's another non 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:19.600 -resonant antenna. You can't hook an antenna 00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:21.759 analyzer to that loop of wire running around 00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:25.659 your house and get a low SWR. Or have you ever 00:12:25.659 --> 00:12:28.919 put up just the same, put up one of those windsock 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:32.419 flag poles and run a bit of wire up it and try 00:12:32.419 --> 00:12:35.259 to use that as an antenna? Well, sure. Well, 00:12:35.259 --> 00:12:38.460 it can be, but it's a non -resonant antenna. 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:43.490 To conclude this for a moment, Other non -resonant 00:12:43.490 --> 00:12:46.929 antennas that hams are now using more frequently 00:12:46.929 --> 00:12:50.909 and are becoming used to using, random long wires. 00:12:51.370 --> 00:12:53.570 They're non -resonant antennas. They're not tuned 00:12:53.570 --> 00:12:58.250 up on a given frequency. Zeps, windhams, off 00:12:58.250 --> 00:13:01.350 -center fed dipoles. These are all non -resonant 00:13:01.350 --> 00:13:05.600 antennas except at a few spots. or another example 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:08.399 of a non -resonant antenna is suppose you put 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:11.299 up a 40 meter dipole you'd say hey I want to 00:13:11.299 --> 00:13:14.320 make a contact on 20 meters and you grab your 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:16.940 antenna tuner and you tune it up. That's a non 00:13:16.940 --> 00:13:23.879 -resonant antenna. Well, we'll let Neil comment 00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:25.960 here and then I'll move on and we'll talk about 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:32.909 the most typical non -resonant antenna. if you've 00:13:32.909 --> 00:13:35.429 got something that's kind of close those little 00:13:35.429 --> 00:13:37.789 you know those the little antenna tuner button 00:13:37.789 --> 00:13:42.269 does a wonderful job but but uh when the the 00:13:42.269 --> 00:13:48.090 impedance is is all out of whack it just doesn't 00:13:48.090 --> 00:13:52.129 doesn't go so let's talk a little bit about um 00:13:52.129 --> 00:13:57.299 you know again the the advantages to um putting 00:13:57.299 --> 00:14:00.600 this this thing outside and doing doing the remote 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:06.000 and and making that work Sure Well, let's consider 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:10.440 a typical Non -resonant antennas that a lot of 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:14.899 hams are using they now almost considered magical 00:14:14.899 --> 00:14:19.639 43 foot vertical with radials a lot of hams think 00:14:19.639 --> 00:14:22.600 oh, that's a super antenna. Well, it is a good 00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:25.879 antenna But you've got to remember, it's a non 00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:29.320 -resonant antenna. You cannot, now let me emphasize 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:33.899 that, put it in quotes, you cannot hook coax 00:14:33.899 --> 00:14:37.720 directly to a 43 -foot vertical with radials 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:42.019 and have it work correctly. Why is that? Well, 00:14:42.179 --> 00:14:45.360 if as I've done, you take easy neck and you make 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:49.240 an SWR plot across the HF, you'll see that a 00:14:49.240 --> 00:14:53.009 43 -foot vertical is only resonant at roughly 00:14:53.009 --> 00:14:57.549 five and a half megahertz, roughly about 17 megahertz, 00:14:57.870 --> 00:15:00.990 and it is resonant at 10 meters. That's the only 00:15:00.990 --> 00:15:04.029 band you could hook a coax directly to a 43 foot 00:15:04.029 --> 00:15:06.789 vertical and get it to work right. All other 00:15:06.789 --> 00:15:11.850 ham bands, it's very much non -resonant. It's 00:15:11.850 --> 00:15:15.370 a very, very odd impedance, all sorts of reactants 00:15:15.370 --> 00:15:21.110 present there. So the 43 foot vertical is a classic 00:15:21.110 --> 00:15:25.730 example of where you need a tuner at the base. 00:15:28.710 --> 00:15:37.070 Okay, so it all comes down to loss. You know, 00:15:37.330 --> 00:15:39.370 we were talking before the show, you're never, 00:15:39.370 --> 00:15:43.649 ever, ever going to totally, totally, absolutely 00:15:43.649 --> 00:15:48.009 get rid of loss. It's a matter of how much loss 00:15:48.009 --> 00:15:52.990 are you willing to live with? Yes, that's indeed 00:15:52.990 --> 00:15:57.250 true. Well, that's kind of where this goes. Yeah. 00:15:57.570 --> 00:16:00.950 Sure. Lots of hams believe that there are two 00:16:00.950 --> 00:16:04.409 ways to use a tuner. You can either put it at 00:16:04.409 --> 00:16:07.049 the rig. or you can put it out at the antenna. 00:16:07.389 --> 00:16:10.250 Both of those ways are valid places to use it. 00:16:10.830 --> 00:16:14.009 But the only way that both of those work correctly 00:16:14.009 --> 00:16:17.429 is when you have a resonant antenna out there, 00:16:17.769 --> 00:16:22.110 one that the manufacturer has made to be a low 00:16:22.110 --> 00:16:26.389 SWR at the bands you're using it on. And if you 00:16:26.389 --> 00:16:30.250 do that, you'll have low loss in the coax between 00:16:30.250 --> 00:16:34.360 your rig and the antenna. with the tuner either 00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:37.480 at the shack or out at the antenna, if it's a 00:16:37.480 --> 00:16:40.879 resonant antenna out there. But let's suppose 00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:44.159 we put a non -resonant antenna out there, such 00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:48.899 as my 20 -foot flagpole, which has become almost 00:16:48.899 --> 00:16:54.399 a byword here recently. Anyway, and it's a non 00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:58.559 -resonant antenna. You can't hook a coax to it 00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:01.759 or hook your antenna analyzer to it and get a 00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:05.579 1 to 1 SWR on any ham band with a 20 -foot flagpole. 00:17:08.010 --> 00:17:12.490 And if you do that, you put a non -resonant antenna 00:17:12.490 --> 00:17:15.369 out there, now you have a different situation. 00:17:16.109 --> 00:17:20.250 Now there's high loss if the tuner is in the 00:17:20.250 --> 00:17:22.930 shack. And where is the loss? It's not in the 00:17:22.930 --> 00:17:26.910 tuner, it's in the coax. You remember Albert 00:17:26.910 --> 00:17:30.309 Einstein said, the universe abhors a vacuum? 00:17:31.289 --> 00:17:37.319 Well, the truth is, that coax abhors high SWR. 00:17:37.740 --> 00:17:40.960 So if you put your tuner in the shack and a long 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:45.019 run of coax out to a non -resonant antenna where 00:17:45.019 --> 00:17:48.279 there's going to be high SWR due to that non 00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:51.019 -resonant antenna, there's going to be terrible 00:17:51.019 --> 00:17:54.220 loss in the coax. I can give you some numbers 00:17:54.220 --> 00:17:59.400 here in a minute to prove that. Okay, well... 00:18:00.069 --> 00:18:03.369 You know if you're if you're going to reduce 00:18:03.369 --> 00:18:06.569 that loss and you're gonna make this work it 00:18:06.569 --> 00:18:10.349 sounds like the the remote is is the way to go 00:18:10.349 --> 00:18:14.789 and You know it also kind of simplifies things 00:18:14.789 --> 00:18:21.309 in the shack Well as far as I'm concerned Of 00:18:21.309 --> 00:18:23.549 course you could use a remote autotuner for anything 00:18:23.549 --> 00:18:28.529 for any any antenna Resonant or non resonant 00:18:28.529 --> 00:18:33.200 it would work fine But if you do have a non -resonant 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:36.339 antenna, and that's what hams need to think about, 00:18:36.500 --> 00:18:38.500 is what kind of an antenna have I got out there. 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:41.039 They need to realize that the loss takes place 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:46.460 in the coax. Let me give you an example. I've 00:18:46.460 --> 00:18:49.200 got some numbers here, so I'm going to have to 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:52.420 enlarge a little bit so I can see them. Oh, come 00:18:52.420 --> 00:18:58.259 on. I hate it when you try to do things too quickly 00:18:58.259 --> 00:19:02.450 here. OK, let's get this zoomed up a little bit 00:19:02.450 --> 00:19:13.710 here. There we go. All right. Now, if you use, 00:19:16.349 --> 00:19:21.329 let's say, a variety of common coaxes and open 00:19:21.329 --> 00:19:26.309 wire feeder line, and you use 100 feet of it, 00:19:26.690 --> 00:19:29.769 and you put 100 watts into it, how much power 00:19:29.769 --> 00:19:33.009 can you expect to get out at the other end? Well, 00:19:33.150 --> 00:19:36.289 if you look in the handbook, you'll see some 00:19:36.289 --> 00:19:39.529 loss figures for coax, and they're true, but 00:19:39.529 --> 00:19:44.750 they're only true if the SWR in that coax is 00:19:44.750 --> 00:19:47.730 one -to -one. The published figures are not for 00:19:47.730 --> 00:19:51.930 coax at higher SWRs. For example, I'll go through 00:19:51.930 --> 00:19:56.329 the quick set of numbers here. If you use RG58, 00:19:56.390 --> 00:19:59.750 which is relatively bad coax, and 100 feet of 00:19:59.750 --> 00:20:02.089 that, you'll get 85 watts out at the other end 00:20:02.089 --> 00:20:07.710 on 80 meters. Maybe if you use LMR 400, which 00:20:07.710 --> 00:20:10.829 is a great low loss coax, you'll get 95 watts 00:20:10.829 --> 00:20:14.109 out at the other end. And if you use 450 ohm 00:20:14.109 --> 00:20:17.009 ladder line, you'll get 99 watts out at the other 00:20:17.009 --> 00:20:21.349 end. 300 ohm ribbon line, you'll get 96 watts 00:20:21.349 --> 00:20:24.869 at the other end. But let's take a look at these 00:20:24.869 --> 00:20:29.309 same coaxes if you allow that antenna out there 00:20:29.309 --> 00:20:32.750 to cause SWR in the line because it's non -resonant. 00:20:33.109 --> 00:20:36.710 Let's put a 10 to 1 SWR, and that's easy for 00:20:36.710 --> 00:20:40.130 a non -resonant antenna to generate. If you do 00:20:40.130 --> 00:20:44.230 that, RG58 is only going to put 55 watts out 00:20:44.230 --> 00:20:48.490 at the other end. LMR400 will put only 79 watts 00:20:48.490 --> 00:20:53.369 out. You have to go down to 600 ohm coax before 00:20:53.369 --> 00:20:56.529 you get most of the power out. Well, let's talk 00:20:56.529 --> 00:20:59.869 about 100 to 1 SWR. You say, oh, I never have 00:20:59.869 --> 00:21:03.609 100 to 1 SWR. Sure you do. All sorts of non -resonant 00:21:03.609 --> 00:21:06.829 antennas. All sorts of non -resonant antennas 00:21:06.829 --> 00:21:10.289 like that 43 foot vertical will show you 100 00:21:10.289 --> 00:21:16.190 to 1 SWR on the ham bands. If you have 100 feet 00:21:16.190 --> 00:21:20.450 of these coaxes at 100 to 1 SWR, which you can 00:21:20.450 --> 00:21:23.940 easily get with a non -resonant antenna, If you 00:21:23.940 --> 00:21:27.279 use RG58, you're going to get 11 watts out. If 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:31.160 you use RG8X, you're going to get 14 watts out. 00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:33.740 If you use RGH, you're going to get 28 watts 00:21:33.740 --> 00:21:38.140 out. LMR400, 28 watts. If you use 300 ohm ribbon, 00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:41.000 you're going to get 31 watts. I think you can 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:44.180 see the picture that's developing here. And by 00:21:44.180 --> 00:21:48.240 the way, let's notice something. People think 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:52.279 our open wire line is lossless. They think, oh, 00:21:52.339 --> 00:21:54.940 well, I just run open wire line out to that non 00:21:54.940 --> 00:21:58.400 -resonant antenna. No, I'm reading you the amount 00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:00.460 of power you're going to get out right here. 00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:05.599 And notice the figures here. Look at the loss 00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:09.240 in 100 feet of 300 ohm twin lead. People think, 00:22:09.259 --> 00:22:12.259 oh, that's no loss in that. No way, Jose, plenty 00:22:12.259 --> 00:22:16.210 of loss in 300 ohm twin lead. It's the same loss 00:22:16.210 --> 00:22:21.170 as in high quality coax, like LMR400. So don't 00:22:21.170 --> 00:22:24.509 kid yourself. 300 ohm ribbon line is not lossless. 00:22:25.430 --> 00:22:31.630 Even 600 ohm open wire line, you're still only 00:22:31.630 --> 00:22:34.170 going to get three fourths of the power out if 00:22:34.170 --> 00:22:37.809 the SWR is 100 to 1. So you can see the loss. 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.359 that most people have, and the reason that antenna 00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:45.920 tuner belongs out at the antenna, not in the 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:48.980 shack, when you're running non -resonant antennas, 00:22:49.339 --> 00:22:54.180 is because of the line loss. COEX hates the SWR 00:22:54.180 --> 00:22:57.160 that non -resonant antenna will generate. Yes, 00:22:57.220 --> 00:23:00.539 that 43 -foot vertical's a great antenna, great 00:23:00.539 --> 00:23:03.279 radiation pattern, but not if you try to feed 00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:09.089 it directly with COEX. No way, Jose. Those numbers 00:23:09.089 --> 00:23:14.970 speak very loudly whenever you're talking 80, 00:23:15.029 --> 00:23:24.529 90 % loss. You're pretty much down to QRP, but 00:23:24.529 --> 00:23:30.019 you're still not even radiating anything. That's 00:23:30.019 --> 00:23:35.799 not to say that a QRP rig won't make contacts. 00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:39.380 I'm sure many of you have. I like to say my QRP 00:23:39.380 --> 00:23:45.720 rig has a pair of 3 -500s in the output. I'm 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:47.500 not one of these hams that thinks I've got to 00:23:47.500 --> 00:23:49.599 get down to the most lowest power I can possibly 00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:52.680 get. Anyway, even though the FCC says I should. 00:23:53.420 --> 00:23:55.259 Anyway, the conclusion of this talk, and we can 00:23:55.259 --> 00:23:58.240 wrap it up here except for one myth that I want 00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:03.779 to conclude with here. The conclusion is, if 00:24:03.779 --> 00:24:07.380 you have a non -resonant antenna, 43 foot vertical, 00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:15.180 a long wire, a off -center -fed dipole, a Zep 00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:18.779 or a Carolina Windham or whatever, that hasn't 00:24:18.779 --> 00:24:21.799 been already given some kind of tuning to make 00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:25.180 it resonant, you need the tuner out there, not 00:24:25.180 --> 00:24:28.200 in the shack. In fact, I've had people do the 00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:30.619 nasty thing of trying to tune those kind of antennas 00:24:30.619 --> 00:24:34.319 up through a long piece of coax with their auto 00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:37.640 tuner in the rig, and because of that loss in 00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:40.839 the line, They've blown up the autotuner in their 00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:44.259 rig, so don't try using the autotuner in your 00:24:44.259 --> 00:24:48.279 rig and a long piece of coax feeding a non -resonant 00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:55.359 antenna. It's a terrible no -no. That'll release 00:24:55.359 --> 00:24:59.759 the magic smoke. The magic smoke that makes all 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:03.299 things work. Alright, let's wrap this up here 00:25:03.299 --> 00:25:08.880 today, Neil, with a final point. I've heard it 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:12.720 said many, many times from hams, and I've come 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:15.579 to the point of concluding that it's a myth. 00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:18.880 It's a ham myth. And in fact, if you look in 00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:21.440 any of the antenna books written by the antenna 00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:26.680 experts, or like Jerry Sevick or McCoy or whatever, 00:25:27.619 --> 00:25:31.539 you'll always find this quote, which many hams 00:25:31.539 --> 00:25:35.259 don't believe. Many hams believe, I don't like 00:25:35.259 --> 00:25:39.700 antenna tuners, they're lossy. No, they're not. 00:25:40.259 --> 00:25:43.440 Don't believe that line. That's a myth. That's 00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:48.400 a mistake. Antenna tuners are not lossing. They 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:50.980 have a little loss. Of course they do. But as 00:25:50.980 --> 00:25:54.339 the QRZ forum said here, it says on their website, 00:25:55.059 --> 00:26:00.779 usually tuner losses are very small if the tuner 00:26:00.779 --> 00:26:04.660 is built using large high Q components, nice 00:26:04.660 --> 00:26:09.259 big capacitors, nice big roller inductance. The 00:26:09.259 --> 00:26:14.019 coil and the capacitors inside of a tuner, the 00:26:14.019 --> 00:26:16.960 reactants that they use to create the tuning, 00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:21.000 to match the things, reactants, the coil and 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:24.400 the capacitor has no loss to it. All that it 00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:28.559 does is transform impedance. It's only any little 00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:32.000 loss that there might be in the... in the coil 00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:35.720 and so forth. It's very small. The losses most 00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:41.559 hams think are due to the tuner is because they've 00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:43.940 made the basic mistake, which we've been talking 00:26:43.940 --> 00:26:48.519 about here, is that if you put the tuner in the 00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:51.940 shack, use a long run of coax and feed a non 00:26:51.940 --> 00:26:54.900 -resonant antenna or try to tune up an antenna 00:26:54.900 --> 00:26:58.140 on a band that it wasn't designed for, The loss 00:26:58.140 --> 00:27:00.779 in the coax is where you're going to see the 00:27:00.779 --> 00:27:03.700 loss. So it's the coax that's eating your power, 00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:06.859 not the tuner. And that's a big ham myth, which 00:27:06.859 --> 00:27:10.200 I hope maybe a few people listening tonight might 00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:17.539 take to heart. Well, very interesting stuff. 00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:23.380 I haven't tried the remote tuner yet, but you're, 00:27:23.380 --> 00:27:26.519 you're convincing me that this is, uh, this is 00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:30.319 something I need to, uh, to explore. So, uh, 00:27:30.500 --> 00:27:33.140 many hams do give it a shot. Yeah. And, and, 00:27:33.140 --> 00:27:37.980 and, and a few thousand of my friends. Yes. So 00:27:37.980 --> 00:27:41.079 we'll, uh, take a break here and when we come 00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:44.240 back we're going to take your questions about 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:47.220 all of this your calls uh... the phone number 00:27:47.220 --> 00:27:50.640 again is eight five nine nine eight two seventy 00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:53.119 three seventy three will give that number out 00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:55.599 again here in just a little bit uh... but we 00:27:55.599 --> 00:27:57.920 would like to take your calls your questions 00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:00.740 and uh... will also check uh... the tweets at 00:28:00.740 --> 00:28:04.250 ham talk live and uh... and see what you have 00:28:04.250 --> 00:28:06.829 to say about all of this so we'll be back with 00:28:06.829 --> 00:28:10.069 John right after this word from ICOM right here 00:28:10.069 --> 00:28:13.329 on HamTalk Live. ICOM has the base station of 00:28:13.329 --> 00:28:19.009 your dreams with the IC -7851, IC -7610, IC -9700, 00:28:19.309 --> 00:28:23.990 and IC -7300 SDR transceivers. ICOM's amateur 00:28:23.990 --> 00:28:26.269 radios are top of the line and are the first 00:28:26.269 --> 00:28:29.390 choice for contesters across the globe. Robust 00:28:29.390 --> 00:28:31.750 base stations like these cut through pileups 00:28:31.750 --> 00:28:34.509 letting you work the bands and record those contacts. 00:28:34.710 --> 00:28:37.950 Keep your competitive contesting edge with iCom. 00:28:38.369 --> 00:28:43.359 Heard it. Worked it. Logged it. The IC7851 gives 00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:47.539 you a new window into the RF world and is HF 00:28:47.539 --> 00:28:50.759 excellence unparalleled. With faster processors, 00:28:51.079 --> 00:28:53.579 high input game, high display resolution, and 00:28:53.579 --> 00:28:56.380 a cleaner signal, it is truly the pinnacle of 00:28:56.380 --> 00:28:59.579 HF perfection. It has dual receivers, digital 00:28:59.579 --> 00:29:02.579 IF filters, a memory keyer, digital voice recorder, 00:29:02.839 --> 00:29:07.279 and an SD card slot. The IC7610 is the SDR every 00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:09.859 ham wants. This high performance SDR can pick 00:29:09.859 --> 00:29:12.519 out the faintest of signals, even in the presence 00:29:12.519 --> 00:29:16.079 of stronger adjacent signals. The ICOM IC7610 00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:18.920 is a direct sampling software defined radio that 00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:21.640 will change the world's definition of an SDR 00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:26.480 transceiver with RF direct sampling, 110 dB RMDR, 00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:30.579 independent dual receiver and dual Digicel. Create 00:29:30.579 --> 00:29:35.089 your own band opening with the IC9700. This transceiver 00:29:35.089 --> 00:29:38.470 brings the direct sampling to the UHF VHF weak 00:29:38.470 --> 00:29:41.250 signal world. This all -mode transceiver is loaded 00:29:41.250 --> 00:29:43.329 with innovative features that are sure to keep 00:29:43.329 --> 00:29:46.190 you busy, faster processors, higher input gain, 00:29:46.490 --> 00:29:49.190 higher display resolution, and a cleaner signal. 00:29:49.390 --> 00:29:52.109 It has a 4 .3 -inch color touchscreen, real -time 00:29:52.109 --> 00:29:54.630 spectrum scope and waterfall, smooth satellite 00:29:54.630 --> 00:29:58.029 operation with 99 satellite channels, dual watch 00:29:58.029 --> 00:30:01.490 operation, and full duplex in satellite mode. 00:30:01.789 --> 00:30:05.450 The IC7300 changed the way entry -level HF is 00:30:05.450 --> 00:30:08.289 designed. This high -performance innovative HF 00:30:08.289 --> 00:30:11.630 transceiver with a compact design will far exceed 00:30:11.630 --> 00:30:14.769 your expectations. It has RF direct sampling, 00:30:15.089 --> 00:30:18.509 15 discrete bandpass filters, a large 4 .3 inch 00:30:18.509 --> 00:30:20.690 color touchscreen, real -time spectrum scope, 00:30:20.869 --> 00:30:24.970 and an SD card slot. Visit icomamerica .com slash 00:30:24.970 --> 00:30:28.730 amateur for more information on ICOM radios. 00:30:29.150 --> 00:30:33.049 Join the conversation. Give us a call at 859 00:30:33.049 --> 00:30:39.009 -982 -7373. Again, the number to call is 859 00:30:39.009 --> 00:30:44.769 -982 -7373. Or, if you'd rather type than talk, 00:30:45.049 --> 00:30:48.349 tweet us at HamTalk Live. Now, here's Neil Rapp 00:30:48.349 --> 00:30:58.259 with more HamTalk Live. You're listening to Ham 00:30:58.259 --> 00:31:21.720 Talk Live with Neil Rapp. Welcome back to HamTalk 00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:25.579 Live. Thanks to ICOM for sponsoring the show 00:31:25.579 --> 00:31:28.339 again tonight. Check them out at icomamerica 00:31:28.339 --> 00:31:34.640 .com slash amateur. HamTalk Live is on the air 00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:37.220 every Thursday night at 9 p .m. Eastern time 00:31:37.220 --> 00:31:40.839 right here at hamtalklive .com. And be sure to 00:31:40.839 --> 00:31:45.000 check us out on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. 00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:48.400 And before we get back to John and your calls, 00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:56.759 which again give us a call 859 -982 -7373 or 00:31:56.759 --> 00:31:59.380 tweet us at HamTalkLive but before we do that 00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:04.720 As we do each week, it's time for the N9GSU Joke 00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:07.799 of the Week. Now it's time for the HamTalk Live 00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:10.720 Ham Radio Joke of the Week, the part of the show 00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:14.019 where Rick tells us a ham radio joke. The HamTalk 00:32:14.019 --> 00:32:16.579 Live Ham Radio Joke of the Week is brought to 00:32:16.579 --> 00:32:21.519 you by QRM Labs. Now, here's Rick Garrett, N9GSU, 00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:30.079 with today's HamTalk Live Joke of the Week. I 00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:32.000 was at the Indianapolis Ham Fest this weekend 00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:34.619 and decided to take a poll. The people in the 00:32:34.619 --> 00:32:38.460 vendor tent were not very happy with me. This 00:32:38.460 --> 00:32:41.700 has been the Ham Talk Live. Ham radio joke of 00:32:41.700 --> 00:32:45.519 the week with Rick Garrett in 9GSU. Tune in again 00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:52.500 next week for another joke from Rick. Well, they 00:32:52.500 --> 00:32:54.839 may not have been real happy with Rick there 00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:59.220 taking a poll, but anyway. Thank you, Rick. We'll 00:32:59.220 --> 00:33:02.140 check in with Rick again next week. But right 00:33:02.140 --> 00:33:06.059 now, it is time for your phone call. So if you 00:33:06.059 --> 00:33:10.680 have a question for our guest, John Portun, W6NBC, 00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:18.920 give us a call right now at 859 -982 -7373. Again, 00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:26.609 it's 859. 9827373 or you can tweet us. It's at 00:33:26.609 --> 00:33:32.509 am talk live or if you have something on To say 00:33:32.509 --> 00:33:35.150 on Spreaker you can do that in the comments and 00:33:35.150 --> 00:33:38.190 that'll pop up on the screen here So we'll see 00:33:38.190 --> 00:33:44.990 what what questions we have here And and while 00:33:44.990 --> 00:33:49.309 we're looking at that, you know you talked about 00:33:49.369 --> 00:33:52.289 You know, the off -center. I think the off -center 00:33:52.289 --> 00:33:58.670 is kind of a commonly used non -resonant antenna. 00:34:02.190 --> 00:34:05.670 Any idea what kind of numbers we're talking here 00:34:05.670 --> 00:34:12.230 versus or between a radio autotuner and then 00:34:12.230 --> 00:34:19.940 doing this remote autotuner outside? Well, if 00:34:19.940 --> 00:34:28.139 you feed the off -center fed long wire, which 00:34:28.139 --> 00:34:30.860 is a good antenna, I've had good results with 00:34:30.860 --> 00:34:34.219 them, you do want to feed it with the widest 00:34:34.219 --> 00:34:38.320 possible open wire line you can. make some 600 00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:41.820 ohm line but certainly 450 ohm ladder line at 00:34:41.820 --> 00:34:44.119 the very least don't try to feed it with 300 00:34:44.119 --> 00:34:47.820 ohm ribbon in fact if you can run 600 ohm stuff 00:34:47.820 --> 00:34:51.739 use some of that that ladder that that stuff 00:34:51.739 --> 00:34:55.980 you can build it what is it called i forgot makes 00:34:55.980 --> 00:34:58.760 nice 600 ohm line use that and use as little 00:34:58.760 --> 00:35:01.760 as possible you don't have to put the tuner right 00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:07.119 up at the antenna you know 30 40 feet of of 600 00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:10.039 ohm open wire line from the tuner up to it isn't 00:35:10.039 --> 00:35:13.980 going to lose you a lot, a few watts maybe on 00:35:13.980 --> 00:35:18.119 the upper bands, but that would be fine. Although 00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:20.480 I've seen people mount these auto tuners right 00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:23.320 up at the feed point, particularly with an inverted 00:35:23.320 --> 00:35:27.340 V or something like that. I wouldn't I wouldn't 00:35:27.340 --> 00:35:30.880 fear using 50 feet of 600 ohm open wire line 00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:33.780 from the from the tuner up to the thing. But 00:35:33.780 --> 00:35:38.760 but don't try to run 100 feet of RG 58. Yeah, 00:35:39.059 --> 00:35:43.760 yeah, definitely. That that's just that's just 00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:48.280 not not going to cut it. All right. Well, let's 00:35:48.280 --> 00:35:52.980 again. Open up phone lines eight five nine nine 00:35:52.980 --> 00:35:56.320 eight two seventy three seventy three or tweet 00:35:56.320 --> 00:35:59.019 us or comment in the chat here if you have a 00:35:59.019 --> 00:36:02.760 question or comment for for John w6 NBC we're 00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:06.380 talking about some antenna tuners tonight and 00:36:06.380 --> 00:36:09.519 and and I guess the other the other myth while 00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:12.239 we're talking about antenna tuners is is that 00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:15.820 you know somehow this is Magically going to make 00:36:15.820 --> 00:36:23.400 that antenna resonant Well, I like to think of 00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:27.300 the antenna as basically everything following 00:36:27.300 --> 00:36:32.679 the transceiver. That's the antenna system. So 00:36:32.679 --> 00:36:38.739 does an antenna that has an antenna tuner associated 00:36:38.739 --> 00:36:42.119 with it work poorer than one that has coils and 00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:45.860 capacitors and stuff in the antenna? No, doesn't 00:36:45.860 --> 00:36:49.699 work worse. Because remember, the tuner, if properly 00:36:49.699 --> 00:36:53.480 placed, does not have any loss to speak of. Very, 00:36:53.480 --> 00:36:57.019 very little loss. So a lot of hams think, well, 00:36:57.019 --> 00:36:59.800 unless that coil and that capacitor or that stub 00:36:59.800 --> 00:37:04.559 is up in that antenna, it's no good. That's not 00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:07.719 true. The tuner does just, that coil and that 00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:10.139 capacitor and that stub or that capacity you've 00:37:10.139 --> 00:37:14.639 had is the tuner that that non -resonant piece 00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:18.679 of wire up there is using. So it is a myth to 00:37:18.679 --> 00:37:23.980 me that antenna tuners are a worse choice than 00:37:23.980 --> 00:37:28.039 the antenna that the manufacturer has built resonant 00:37:28.039 --> 00:37:31.019 because he's essentially built the tuner into 00:37:31.019 --> 00:37:36.119 the antenna and it has the same losses. Okay, 00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:40.679 very good. Well, we're watching here. I haven't 00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:43.179 seen any questions yet, so I'll keep looking 00:37:43.179 --> 00:37:47.940 here. Before we go, which we just have a few 00:37:47.940 --> 00:37:50.179 minutes left, so if you're going to call, you 00:37:50.179 --> 00:37:55.719 need to do that now at 859 -982 -7373. I know 00:37:55.719 --> 00:37:57.920 you've got another project that you're working 00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:00.940 on. We don't want to give away too much because 00:38:00.940 --> 00:38:06.400 you're going to have an article about this coming 00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:14.039 up. What's your next project here? Well, one 00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:16.019 of the things that I have been working on and 00:38:16.019 --> 00:38:19.179 which I will be speaking on, by the way, at the 00:38:19.179 --> 00:38:24.980 QSO Today Expo in the Antenna Forum at 10 o 'clock 00:38:24.980 --> 00:38:28.360 on Saturday, is an interesting topic to me that 00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:31.300 I've had a lot of fun with, and that's to use 00:38:31.300 --> 00:38:35.159 copper tape and aluminum foil tape to make antennas 00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:39.199 instead of aluminum rod or wire, which is what 00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:42.260 most hams think about. And I've got several ones, 00:38:42.539 --> 00:38:46.019 including a cute little, which I'm looking at 00:38:46.019 --> 00:38:49.420 it right now, a cute little indoor antenna for 00:38:49.420 --> 00:38:52.059 when you're sitting in your easy chair with your 00:38:52.059 --> 00:38:54.719 HT and you're trying to talk to your buddies 00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:57.920 on the repeater with your rubber ducky. And they 00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:01.820 say, hey, get a real radio. And this is a little 00:39:01.820 --> 00:39:06.440 this is a little flower pot antenna. It's a helical. 00:39:06.820 --> 00:39:10.420 It's a helically loaded flower pot. with a fake 00:39:10.420 --> 00:39:14.699 antenna in it that has gained remarkably close 00:39:14.699 --> 00:39:18.059 to a J -pole. And it's a lot better looking, 00:39:18.340 --> 00:39:20.960 as far as the XYL is concerned, than trying to 00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:27.000 hide that ugly J -pole over in the corner. But 00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:31.119 I've got several other helical antennas which 00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:34.519 were inspired by the article I had recently on 00:39:34.519 --> 00:39:37.619 that a little short two meter shortened antenna 00:39:37.619 --> 00:39:40.630 that was shortened with copper tape. I've been 00:39:40.630 --> 00:39:45.929 pushing those down onto the HF bands and remarkably, 00:39:46.090 --> 00:39:48.429 they work remarkably well. I've got a little 00:39:48.429 --> 00:39:52.230 birdhouse antenna. Snoopy and Woodstock sit on 00:39:52.230 --> 00:39:56.849 top of a birdhouse on top of a 10 meter helically 00:39:56.849 --> 00:40:00.980 wound thing that's wound on a piece of... downspout 00:40:00.980 --> 00:40:04.139 gutter pipe. So there's a lot you can do with 00:40:04.139 --> 00:40:07.119 aluminum and copper foil tape in making antennas 00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:09.880 and I'll be speaking on that at the QSO Today 00:40:09.880 --> 00:40:14.059 Forum 10 o 'clock on Saturday. Don't forget about 00:40:14.059 --> 00:40:18.400 the QSO Today Expo coming up this weekend so 00:40:18.400 --> 00:40:21.219 make sure you check that out and John will be 00:40:21.219 --> 00:40:24.380 there as will others talking about a variety 00:40:24.380 --> 00:40:30.880 of things. Make sure you stop by there and I 00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:34.760 know John always has some very creative antenna 00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:38.219 ideas and you know, you put Snoopy and Woodstock 00:40:38.219 --> 00:40:42.699 on there. The HOA may not be knocking on your 00:40:42.699 --> 00:40:45.119 door quite so quickly. Oh, they love it. The 00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:50.250 neighbors want to know where I got him. They 00:40:50.250 --> 00:40:52.550 don't know that he's sitting on top of a 10 meter 00:40:52.550 --> 00:40:59.489 antenna. There you go. So the stealth works for 00:40:59.489 --> 00:41:04.250 sure. And I may have to get into that now that 00:41:04.250 --> 00:41:07.130 I'm living inside of an HOA for the first time. 00:41:08.190 --> 00:41:12.329 May have to resort to some of those. I'm hoping 00:41:12.329 --> 00:41:15.469 they will listen, but we'll see how it goes. 00:41:16.179 --> 00:41:19.400 Well, John, thank you so much for coming on the 00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:23.980 show and talking about these remote autotuners 00:41:23.980 --> 00:41:27.380 and hopefully some people heard what you were 00:41:27.380 --> 00:41:31.940 saying and have some new ideas for some new ways 00:41:31.940 --> 00:41:34.380 to make the shack better. So thanks so much. 00:41:35.119 --> 00:41:37.840 Oh, it's my pleasure. And I know maybe in some 00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:40.280 cases what I had to say is not exactly what people 00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:43.449 wanted to hear. In fact, I've. noted that for 00:41:43.449 --> 00:41:45.769 quite a long time with the 20 -foot flagpole. 00:41:46.150 --> 00:41:48.269 People don't want to hear, I gotta put that toner 00:41:48.269 --> 00:41:52.010 out there. Anyway, but unfortunately that's basic 00:41:52.010 --> 00:41:54.349 physics. Thanks for having me, Neil, and we'll 00:41:54.349 --> 00:41:58.269 see you sometime later. All right, John Portun, 00:41:58.489 --> 00:42:02.300 W6NBC, thank you so much. for being here. That 00:42:02.300 --> 00:42:05.460 is a wrap for this week's edition of HamTalk 00:42:05.460 --> 00:42:08.679 Live. So thanks to John and everybody out there 00:42:08.679 --> 00:42:12.659 in cyberspace for listening tonight and all the 00:42:12.659 --> 00:42:16.360 people over in the the speaker chat, Jill and 00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:21.500 Chris. Thanks for being there as you often are 00:42:21.500 --> 00:42:26.260 and hope things are going well for you. And we'll 00:42:26.260 --> 00:42:30.380 be back next week. on Thursday night at 9 p .m. 00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:34.539 Eastern Time. Don Wilbanks, AE5DW will be back 00:42:34.539 --> 00:42:39.960 and alongside Don will be Faith Hannah Lee, KD3Z 00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:43.300 and they will be here to talk about the Newsline 00:42:43.300 --> 00:42:46.199 Young Ham of the Year award. So make sure you 00:42:46.199 --> 00:42:49.610 tune in next week for that. For a list of all 00:42:49.610 --> 00:42:52.650 of our upcoming guests go to hamtalklive .com 00:42:52.650 --> 00:42:55.630 and if you like the show, please leave us a review 00:42:55.630 --> 00:42:58.429 Wherever you listen that helps others find the 00:42:58.429 --> 00:43:02.849 show faster. So for now, this is Neil Rapp WB9VPG 00:43:02.849 --> 00:43:06.489 saying seven three seven five and may the good 00:43:06.489 --> 00:43:19.480 DX be yours Well you came right back to my CQ 00:43:19.480 --> 00:43:24.840 call Your readability 5 and strength 9 You never 00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:26.639 once mentioned your weather