WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.759 This episode of HamTalk Live is brought to you 00:00:02.759 --> 00:00:06.160 by Tower Electronics. For connectors, cables, 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:13.099 and more, call 920 -435 -2973 or visit pl -259 00:00:13.099 --> 00:00:17.780 .com. And by ICOM, heard it, worked it, logged 00:00:17.780 --> 00:00:23.000 it. Visit www .icomamerica .com slash amateur 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:30.379 for more information about ICOM radios. with 00:00:30.379 --> 00:00:37.259 neoprap here we go welcome to amtoply calling 00:00:37.259 --> 00:00:59.340 let's talk neils your guy amtoply Hey everybody, 00:00:59.840 --> 00:01:05.099 I'm back. It's HamTalk Live episode number 312, 00:01:05.500 --> 00:01:09.900 Toroids and Balans, recorded on Sunday, January 00:01:09.900 --> 00:01:15.019 29th, 2023. I'm your host, Neil Rapp, WB9VPG. 00:01:15.079 --> 00:01:18.780 Thanks for tuning in to this episode of HamTalk 00:01:18.780 --> 00:01:24.299 Live. Today we're joined by John Portun, W6NBC. 00:01:25.319 --> 00:01:28.859 And last episode, Michael Colley, W4ORL, and 00:01:28.859 --> 00:01:32.219 Mike Banigan, KJ4UDO, were here to talk about 00:01:32.219 --> 00:01:35.239 the Orlando hamcation. And that's just a couple 00:01:35.239 --> 00:01:40.969 of weeks off. the award winners from the hamcation 00:01:40.969 --> 00:01:43.450 committee uh so if you missed that show you can 00:01:43.450 --> 00:01:46.870 listen anytime over at ham talk live dot com 00:01:46.870 --> 00:01:50.629 or on your favorite podcast app or on youtube 00:01:50.629 --> 00:01:54.090 well i do have uh several quick announcements 00:01:54.090 --> 00:01:57.790 here before we get to talking to uh john about 00:01:57.790 --> 00:02:00.230 uh what do you need to know about toroids and 00:02:00.230 --> 00:02:02.950 balans and what what can you do with them and 00:02:02.950 --> 00:02:06.019 what How do you make them work right? Well, we'll 00:02:06.019 --> 00:02:08.680 get to that here in a little bit, but here are 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:12.419 a few things that that you can do in the meantime. 00:02:12.860 --> 00:02:16.780 First of all, the AM rally is returning to the 00:02:16.780 --> 00:02:20.039 HF and six meter bands for the sixth year. That 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:26.199 is starting on Friday, February 3rd, and it's 00:02:26.199 --> 00:02:29.780 just to encourage the use of AM on 160, 80, 40, 00:02:29.860 --> 00:02:34.370 20, 15, 10 and six meters. uh... just to highlight 00:02:34.370 --> 00:02:36.810 some various types of a m equipment that's in 00:02:36.810 --> 00:02:40.689 use today it's open to any and all radio amateurs 00:02:40.689 --> 00:02:44.110 running full carrier amplitude modulation standard 00:02:44.110 --> 00:02:47.210 a m any kind of radio equipment new old whatever 00:02:47.210 --> 00:02:50.849 uh... this year's event is from zero hundred 00:02:50.849 --> 00:02:54.250 zulu saturday february fourth uh... which is 00:02:54.250 --> 00:02:58.569 friday night uh... seven p m eastern if you're 00:02:58.569 --> 00:03:02.740 in the eastern time zone so zero hundred zulu 00:03:02.740 --> 00:03:08.060 saturday zero seven hundred zulu on monday february 00:03:08.060 --> 00:03:14.169 six so uh... that uh... 2 a .m. Eastern on on 00:03:14.169 --> 00:03:17.889 Monday So that way we have it a little later 00:03:17.889 --> 00:03:21.710 for the the West Coast people so again zero hundred 00:03:21.710 --> 00:03:26.849 Saturday to zero seven hundred on Monday February 00:03:26.849 --> 00:03:31.550 6 more information available at a am rally a 00:03:31.550 --> 00:03:37.370 are a M R a ll y calm So make sure you check 00:03:37.370 --> 00:03:41.930 that out. Also, Carole Perry, our friend WB2MGP, 00:03:41.990 --> 00:03:45.069 is accepting nominations for the Young Ham Lens 00:03:45.069 --> 00:03:49.990 the Hand contest until April 1st. And that winner 00:03:49.990 --> 00:03:52.789 will receive a $100 stipend and will be announced 00:03:52.789 --> 00:03:55.689 at the Youth Forum at the Dayton Hamvention. 00:03:56.849 --> 00:04:01.189 This is what she needs. She needs name, call 00:04:01.189 --> 00:04:06.009 sign, age, address, telephone number, and why 00:04:06.009 --> 00:04:08.689 this nominee is deserving of the award. So just 00:04:08.689 --> 00:04:12.289 a paragraph or two about what this young ham 00:04:12.289 --> 00:04:15.110 has been doing to lend a hand. And that may be, 00:04:15.110 --> 00:04:18.029 you know, Involve Ham Radio may not, but they're 00:04:18.029 --> 00:04:22.129 ham and they're helping out. So you can email 00:04:22.129 --> 00:04:25.389 that information, name, call sign, age, address, 00:04:26.129 --> 00:04:29.300 cell number. home number, if there's one, and 00:04:29.300 --> 00:04:34.740 why they're deserving of the award to WB2MGP, 00:04:34.740 --> 00:04:39.060 that's Whiskey Bravo 2, MikeGolfPapa at gmail 00:04:39.060 --> 00:04:44.660 .com by April 1st. And they'll announce those 00:04:44.660 --> 00:04:47.939 again at the Youth Forum at Hamvention. And then 00:04:47.939 --> 00:04:51.579 the last thing, there's a special event that's 00:04:51.579 --> 00:04:55.660 looking to grow. and we may talk about it here 00:04:55.660 --> 00:04:58.620 on the show later on when it gets closer to time 00:04:58.620 --> 00:05:02.920 but the Elmer special event is looking for some 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:07.339 operators. This is the Whiskey One Echo special 00:05:07.339 --> 00:05:10.980 event and it honors Elmers who have helped us 00:05:10.980 --> 00:05:15.060 along the way here in Ham Radio and the organizers 00:05:15.060 --> 00:05:17.600 know there's a lot more stories out there about 00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:21.139 Elmer's and lots of thank yous to share for Elmer's 00:05:21.139 --> 00:05:24.120 so it's going to start on September 29th, but 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:28.750 if you are thinking about you know the why and 00:05:28.750 --> 00:05:31.689 how you where you are now an amateur radio now's 00:05:31.689 --> 00:05:34.790 the time uh... to let rich know uh... and maybe 00:05:34.790 --> 00:05:37.470 you can be uh... one of the operators for this 00:05:37.470 --> 00:05:40.529 special event so uh... you can contact him at 00:05:40.529 --> 00:05:46.089 marzo seven zero eight eight that's M A R Z O 00:05:46.089 --> 00:05:50.230 seven zero eight eight marzo seven zero eight 00:05:50.230 --> 00:05:55.620 eight at yahoo dot com so uh... We'll hear more 00:05:55.620 --> 00:05:58.279 about that later, and that's also featured on 00:05:58.279 --> 00:06:01.259 Amateur Radio Newsline this week, so make sure 00:06:01.259 --> 00:06:03.959 you check that out. Alright, well, enough of 00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:06.339 the announcements. I'll be back with John. We'll 00:06:06.339 --> 00:06:09.860 talk toroids right after this word from Tower 00:06:09.860 --> 00:06:16.779 Electronics right here on HamTalk Live. His two 00:06:16.779 --> 00:06:24.079 cents is worth $37 in change. He once ran a marathon. 00:06:25.199 --> 00:06:31.860 because it was on his way to Dayton. He works 00:06:31.860 --> 00:06:41.240 FT8 by ear. He once worked North Korea on every 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:49.060 band in one minute using only a microwatt. He 00:06:49.060 --> 00:06:52.779 slowed down his code speed to work a de -expedition. 00:06:53.959 --> 00:07:01.980 to 200 words a minute. He is, indeed, the most 00:07:01.980 --> 00:07:07.199 interesting ham in the world. I don't always 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:12.019 put on my own PL -259s, but when I do, I prefer 00:07:12.019 --> 00:07:15.779 them from Tower Electronics. Stay resident, my 00:07:15.779 --> 00:07:20.069 friends. Tower Electronics has all the adapters, 00:07:20.389 --> 00:07:25.389 cables, connectors, and yes, PL -259s you need 00:07:25.389 --> 00:07:31.649 at a ham fest near you. Or visit PL -259 .com. 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:37.680 And coming up on the tower electronics ham fest 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:41.000 schedule they will be at or the Orlando hamcation 00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:45.120 February 10th 11th and 12th then February 25th 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:48.959 will be in Dalton, Georgia March 4th, Cave City, 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:54.000 Kentucky March 19th, Maumee, Ohio and March 25th 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:56.920 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin But you can visit them 00:07:56.920 --> 00:08:03.639 from anywhere at PL -259 .com Who is the most 00:08:03.639 --> 00:08:06.819 dangerous person in the world? A ham with some 00:08:06.819 --> 00:08:11.699 wire, a potato gun and an idea. Ham Talk Live! 00:08:23.819 --> 00:08:30.129 Welcome back to Ham Talk Live! Today, John Portun, 00:08:30.290 --> 00:08:34.389 W6NBC, joins us on the Orlando Amateur Radio 00:08:34.389 --> 00:08:38.110 Club and hamcation Zoom line. John's been a ham 00:08:38.110 --> 00:08:42.889 since 1965 and he's active on everything. 160 00:08:42.889 --> 00:08:46.250 meters to two and a half gigahertz and helps 00:08:46.250 --> 00:08:50.629 people get on the air and new licensees. He manages 00:08:50.629 --> 00:08:55.799 a remote base. He does a lot of 2 meter and 40 00:08:55.799 --> 00:09:01.139 meters from his RV and he's married to KF6OEB 00:09:01.139 --> 00:09:03.940 and has three children, twelve grandchildren, 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:07.360 retired in 2002. Spent most of his career working 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:13.840 at KNBC in Los Angeles as well as Ampex and Sony 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:19.539 and he's a frequent contributor to QST magazine 00:09:19.539 --> 00:09:22.799 and we're today we're talking about some toroid. 00:09:23.019 --> 00:09:25.100 So John, welcome back to the show. Thanks for 00:09:25.100 --> 00:09:29.059 being here. Oh, it's my pleasure, Neil. Always 00:09:29.059 --> 00:09:32.620 welcome. Always glad to chat about ham radio. 00:09:33.500 --> 00:09:35.480 Oh, yeah. So it's something we can't get out 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:41.299 of our blood. It stays there. I appreciate all 00:09:41.299 --> 00:09:44.820 your talks here today and we're going to do a 00:09:44.820 --> 00:09:50.320 new one here for us about toroids. But before 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:54.200 I get to that, I do want to mention that John 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:58.519 has club presentations available. He's got a 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:02.769 whole list of Things to talk about PowerPoint 00:10:02.769 --> 00:10:05.629 presentations and all kinds of things and you 00:10:05.629 --> 00:10:08.789 have a new email address So if people are trying 00:10:08.789 --> 00:10:11.490 to get a hold of you to do one of these club 00:10:11.490 --> 00:10:14.610 presentations tell Everybody how they get a hold 00:10:14.610 --> 00:10:18.230 of you Yes, indeed. Well, first of all you go 00:10:18.230 --> 00:10:23.009 to my website W6nbc .com and it will tell you 00:10:23.009 --> 00:10:28.860 all about how to sign up for a free zoom presentation 00:10:28.860 --> 00:10:33.100 to be made in your radio club or if you're putting 00:10:33.100 --> 00:10:36.320 on an expo someplace, a ham expo, and you'd like 00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:39.659 to have a presentation on a ham topic. And as 00:10:39.659 --> 00:10:42.340 Neil says, I do have quite a number of topics 00:10:42.340 --> 00:10:46.000 which are being presented around the country 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.840 and in fact around the world, almost any of the 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:51.600 English speaking part of the world, South Africa, 00:10:51.700 --> 00:10:54.840 New Zealand, Australia, UK, I've been making 00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:58.220 presentations there by Zoom. And they've been 00:10:58.220 --> 00:11:00.860 pretty well received. So if you'd like to make 00:11:00.860 --> 00:11:03.919 presentations, just get on the website and it'll 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:05.820 tell you how. And you send me an email, we'll 00:11:05.820 --> 00:11:08.279 sign you up and give your club a presentation 00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:12.179 by Zoom. It's a great fun. Sure is. And make 00:11:12.179 --> 00:11:15.480 sure you check the website for that new email 00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:17.659 address because if you use the old one, you may 00:11:17.659 --> 00:11:21.360 not get too far. Well, we're going to talk about 00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:24.340 some some ferrites, the toroids, all that fun 00:11:24.340 --> 00:11:29.549 stuff today. First, let's start off talking about 00:11:29.549 --> 00:11:35.250 what's a toroid? What does it do? Well, a toroid 00:11:35.250 --> 00:11:40.929 is just a ring inductor, just a magnetic ring 00:11:40.929 --> 00:11:48.169 that's used to make inductors. But its principal 00:11:48.169 --> 00:11:53.129 use in ham radio is to make balance. We know 00:11:53.129 --> 00:11:58.669 about balans by name, and of course we use them 00:11:58.669 --> 00:12:03.570 typically, but not too many hams are really aware 00:12:03.570 --> 00:12:08.590 of how to make a balan from a toroid, how to 00:12:08.590 --> 00:12:12.090 pick out a toroid, and then how to wind a wire 00:12:12.090 --> 00:12:18.820 onto it to make a balan. And that's pretty much 00:12:18.820 --> 00:12:22.019 the topic that is one of the common topics that 00:12:22.019 --> 00:12:25.139 I talk about and I'm frequently lecturing on. 00:12:26.740 --> 00:12:30.679 Now, if you're going to go get a toroid for a 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:34.379 certain application, how do you pick that? What 00:12:34.379 --> 00:12:37.740 kind of mix do you have? What kind of size? How 00:12:37.740 --> 00:12:41.139 do you pick out the right one for the job? Okay, 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:43.559 there are two things you need to keep in mind 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:51.700 when picking out a toroid. the mix and the size 00:12:51.700 --> 00:12:56.360 of the toroid. And the mix determines the frequency 00:12:56.360 --> 00:13:00.419 that you're going to operate the ballon on. And 00:13:00.419 --> 00:13:04.259 that really there are only three choices of mix 00:13:04.259 --> 00:13:09.740 in picking out a toroid. And they are mix 31, 00:13:11.439 --> 00:13:16.080 mix 43. These are the HF mixes. Now you might 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:19.279 find a lot of variation looking in the books 00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:23.019 and so forth, but if you're picking out a toroid, 00:13:23.820 --> 00:13:29.940 mix 31 and mix 43 are the ones you want to pick. 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:33.059 They're the HF toroid. Now a lot of hams swear 00:13:33.059 --> 00:13:38.399 by the 31 mix, but it's no better than the 43 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:41.370 mix. even though a lot of hams think it is. It 00:13:41.370 --> 00:13:44.950 just doesn't quite need as many turns. That's 00:13:44.950 --> 00:13:49.289 the only reason. And the mix 61 mix is the VHF. 00:13:49.529 --> 00:13:53.029 So you've only got three choices. 31, 43, 61. 00:13:53.450 --> 00:13:58.490 31 and 43 are for HF, 61 is for VHF. So that's 00:13:58.490 --> 00:14:01.269 picking it for the frequency. For the power, 00:14:02.169 --> 00:14:04.830 you really only have two choices. You only have 00:14:04.830 --> 00:14:07.529 two sizes that you need to be concerned about. 00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:13.080 the 240 and the 140, which means 2 .4 inches, 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:17.279 1 .4 inches in diameter. The 240 will handle 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:20.139 pretty much a kilowatts and the 140 is pretty 00:14:20.139 --> 00:14:23.700 much good for 100 watts. That's pretty much all 00:14:23.700 --> 00:14:26.700 you need to do. So in picking out a toroid, you 00:14:26.700 --> 00:14:32.159 pick out an FT, that's ferrite toroid, 240 or 00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:38.309 140 for the power and then hyphen for either 00:14:38.309 --> 00:14:43.789 31, 43, or 61 for the frequency. So again, if 00:14:43.789 --> 00:14:49.629 you're picking on a 100 watt toroid for HF, FT240 00:14:49.629 --> 00:14:54.970 43 would be a 2 .4 inch diameter toroid mix 43, 00:14:55.210 --> 00:14:58.370 which means it would be a 1 kilowatt ferrite 00:14:58.370 --> 00:15:01.950 for HF. That's the way you that's the way I pick 00:15:01.950 --> 00:15:03.909 them out. It's pretty simple You don't have to 00:15:03.909 --> 00:15:06.090 you don't have to get it make it really cut You 00:15:06.090 --> 00:15:08.529 don't have to go to a lot of radio books look 00:15:08.529 --> 00:15:10.929 up a lot of charts and a lot of graphs Although 00:15:10.929 --> 00:15:12.929 you'll find them in the radio books. They're 00:15:12.929 --> 00:15:15.490 more confusing than they are a help. You really 00:15:15.490 --> 00:15:20.529 only have those three choices 31 43 or 61 and 00:15:20.529 --> 00:15:22.549 you and that's pretty much all you need for ham 00:15:22.549 --> 00:15:28.149 radio and then size 240 or size 140 for one kilowatt 00:15:28.149 --> 00:15:31.730 or 100 watts and that's the only size toroids 00:15:31.730 --> 00:15:35.710 you really basically need to ever pick out. And 00:15:35.710 --> 00:15:38.350 this mix that we're talking about is the mix 00:15:38.350 --> 00:15:42.309 of different substances that are put into making 00:15:42.309 --> 00:15:44.809 this thing. So it's got iron in it and there's 00:15:44.809 --> 00:15:49.370 a certain percentage of iron and these other 00:15:49.370 --> 00:15:53.279 materials and so that Changes the number of turns 00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:56.440 that you have to make to get it to work like 00:15:56.440 --> 00:16:02.879 you want it. That's right the mix Ferrites are 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:07.539 Ferro ceramics or magnetic ceramics. It's a ceramic 00:16:07.539 --> 00:16:10.759 just like your teacup. Just like just like your 00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:14.919 china vase It's just clay baked in a kiln or 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:18.440 fired in a kiln. So it's a ceramic but it's got 00:16:18.669 --> 00:16:22.909 It's got magnetic particles added into the clay 00:16:22.909 --> 00:16:27.070 when it's fired, so it's a ferro -ceramic. And 00:16:27.070 --> 00:16:30.509 depending upon how much of that ferro material 00:16:30.509 --> 00:16:34.029 is put into the ceramic, determines how magnetic 00:16:34.029 --> 00:16:38.269 or what its permeability, that's the technical 00:16:38.269 --> 00:16:40.970 term, but you don't need to bury yourself in 00:16:40.970 --> 00:16:46.450 technical terms in making balance. And you don't 00:16:46.450 --> 00:16:48.929 need to worry about what kind of the material 00:16:48.929 --> 00:16:51.269 it is, even though they'll go into great discussions 00:16:51.269 --> 00:16:54.590 in the technical books and confuse you. You really 00:16:54.590 --> 00:16:57.509 only need to pick ferrite. You don't need to 00:16:57.509 --> 00:17:00.590 worry about iron powder or any of that kind of 00:17:00.590 --> 00:17:03.509 stuff. Forget all of that stuff. For ham radio, 00:17:04.069 --> 00:17:06.250 ferrite is what you want to pick. Don't worry 00:17:06.250 --> 00:17:09.670 about iron powder. So ferrite, and only of those 00:17:09.670 --> 00:17:11.890 three mixes, they're the only ones you'll ever 00:17:11.890 --> 00:17:16.630 really be concerned about. 31, 43, or 61. And 00:17:16.630 --> 00:17:19.950 43 or 31, you can use them interchangeably. The 00:17:19.950 --> 00:17:23.609 31 is not any better than 43 for making a balance, 00:17:23.690 --> 00:17:26.990 even though some people swear by 31. And no, 00:17:27.130 --> 00:17:29.869 you don't need to do that. 43 works just as well. 00:17:30.130 --> 00:17:32.529 And it's cheaper and more readily available, 00:17:32.549 --> 00:17:36.900 by the way. and a lot of surplus 43 material 00:17:36.900 --> 00:17:40.660 out there or 31 material yes is available but 00:17:40.660 --> 00:17:43.460 it's not available surplus i buy i usually buy 00:17:43.460 --> 00:17:47.720 surplus 43 ferrites and and by the way you can 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:50.759 buy them from ferrite they're the main company 00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:54.579 that makes ferrite toroids in the United States. 00:17:54.900 --> 00:17:56.460 And I thought, oh, you know, couldn't buy them 00:17:56.460 --> 00:17:58.779 from them. You probably got to buy 10 ,000 of 00:17:58.779 --> 00:18:01.259 these things from ferrite. No, you don't. They've 00:18:01.259 --> 00:18:03.839 got a nice retail sales department. They'll sell 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:06.240 them to you just as well as ham radio outlet 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:09.160 will sell them to you or anybody else. So you 00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:11.180 can just get on the Internet and buy them from 00:18:11.180 --> 00:18:14.779 ferrite quite easily. Yep, and DX Engineering 00:18:14.779 --> 00:18:18.059 even has the color -coded one, so you just look 00:18:18.059 --> 00:18:21.839 at the color and see which one it is. Well, there's 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:28.140 all these toroids available, so this hopefully 00:18:28.140 --> 00:18:33.759 simplifies your selection process. and how you're 00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:36.940 going to use these. So let's dive in a little 00:18:36.940 --> 00:18:39.640 bit here. We're going to take a break here in 00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:42.519 just a few minutes, but let's dive in a little 00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:45.680 bit to, okay, what do I use these things for? 00:18:46.059 --> 00:18:50.500 What do I need these for? Well, you need them 00:18:50.500 --> 00:18:53.660 to make a balance. And I'll only deal with this 00:18:53.660 --> 00:18:58.079 briefly to one kind of big issue that I have, 00:18:58.299 --> 00:19:03.799 and that is I don't like the name Because you 00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:06.640 ask the average ham, what's the main purpose 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:09.940 of a ballot? Just that simple question. What 00:19:09.940 --> 00:19:12.680 is the main purpose of a ballot? If you ask that 00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:15.420 in a radio club nine out of ten times, you're 00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:18.380 going to get the simple answer, which is not 00:19:18.380 --> 00:19:20.799 really an answer as far as I'm concerned. And 00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:23.279 the answer that you commonly get is, what's a 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:25.640 ballot for? Well, it's to make balanced into 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:28.339 unbalanced. But what does that mean? It really 00:19:28.339 --> 00:19:31.980 doesn't mean that much to most people. I like 00:19:31.980 --> 00:19:35.240 the term because it describes what a ballon does. 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:39.759 It chokes off the shield current on the outside. 00:19:40.940 --> 00:19:45.640 I like to call these things outside shield current 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:49.220 chokes. That's what they really are. Because 00:19:49.220 --> 00:19:54.140 here's the issue. A coax, a piece of coax, you 00:19:54.140 --> 00:19:58.039 might think it's a two conductor transmission 00:19:58.039 --> 00:20:01.720 line. No, it's not. It's a three conductor transmission 00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:04.960 line. So where's the third conductor? The third 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:10.160 conductor is the outside of the shield. Because 00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:15.339 of skin effect, the shield breaks up into two 00:20:15.339 --> 00:20:18.539 separate conductors. The inside of the shield 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:22.339 and the outside of the shield. Skin effect separates 00:20:22.339 --> 00:20:26.059 the shield into two separate conductors, very, 00:20:26.059 --> 00:20:28.960 very distinctly. And current can flow on the 00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:32.700 outside in the opposite direction, separately, 00:20:33.140 --> 00:20:35.660 independently from current flowing on the inside 00:20:35.660 --> 00:20:41.559 of coax. And that makes the shield into two separate 00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:46.779 conductors. So coax is a three conductor transmission 00:20:46.779 --> 00:20:51.450 line. But right at the end of coax, right where 00:20:51.450 --> 00:20:57.009 coax ends, the skin effect also connects the 00:20:57.009 --> 00:21:00.150 two of them to each other. So when you hook a 00:21:00.150 --> 00:21:03.269 dipole or an antenna to the end of a piece of 00:21:03.269 --> 00:21:07.430 coax, the currents coming back from the antenna 00:21:07.430 --> 00:21:11.759 can go back. to the transmitter, which it has 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:14.539 to go back to the transmitter to complete the 00:21:14.539 --> 00:21:16.920 circuit from the transmitter. But it can also 00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:19.240 get on the outside of the shield. We know this. 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:22.559 We've heard about shield current. We don't want 00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:25.339 this. Why? Why don't we want shield current? 00:21:25.609 --> 00:21:29.250 because it can disrupt the whole antenna system. 00:21:30.349 --> 00:21:32.450 Because we don't know where that outside shield 00:21:32.450 --> 00:21:35.490 current is going to go. It can go back to ground. 00:21:35.529 --> 00:21:38.730 It can go all sorts of nasty places. It can radiate. 00:21:38.890 --> 00:21:42.579 It can do nasty things. We don't want... any 00:21:42.579 --> 00:21:45.559 current on the outside of the shield, and that's 00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:48.940 what the ballon is for. We want the ballon to 00:21:48.940 --> 00:21:51.839 get rid of the outside shield current. We want 00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:55.039 it to choke the current off of the outside of 00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:58.319 the shield. That's what a ballon is for. So if 00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:01.119 anybody asks you, what is a ballon for? Don't 00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:04.779 answer to convert balance to unbalance. Answer 00:22:04.779 --> 00:22:09.460 to get rid of the outside shield current. And 00:22:09.460 --> 00:22:15.839 so that's what we use a toroid for. We wind enough 00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:23.079 windings on the toroid to choke off that outside 00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:26.880 shield current. The inductance of that coil chokes 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:29.980 off the shield current. It can't get through, 00:22:30.220 --> 00:22:38.480 but it can get through on the inside. It's difficult 00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:42.779 to explain this in words alone, but that's essentially 00:22:42.779 --> 00:22:47.480 what a ballon does. It prevents the current from 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:49.779 getting onto the outside of the shield. It's 00:22:49.779 --> 00:22:52.359 an outside shield choke, and that's what it's 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:56.900 for. But let's move on now next, maybe after 00:22:56.900 --> 00:23:02.279 your break here, and let's move on to how you 00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:05.539 determine how many windings to put on this toroid. 00:23:07.579 --> 00:23:10.660 Yeah, we're going to take a break and that's 00:23:10.660 --> 00:23:15.019 exactly where I was headed. Okay, now let's figure 00:23:15.019 --> 00:23:17.480 out how many turns we need and what kind of antenna 00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:19.619 we're going to make, but we'll do that after 00:23:19.619 --> 00:23:22.920 the break here. So I will be back with John right 00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:27.160 after this word from ICOM America right here 00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:31.710 on HamTalk Live. Happy New Year from ICOM! Didn't 00:23:31.710 --> 00:23:34.549 get everything on your wish list? Spice up your 00:23:34.549 --> 00:23:38.009 ham shack with one of ICOM's popular handhelds, 00:23:38.069 --> 00:23:41.009 mobiles, or base stations. These radios are perfect 00:23:41.009 --> 00:23:43.630 for working your favorite bands while staying 00:23:43.630 --> 00:23:47.799 inside or venturing out this winter. The IC -705 00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:51.220 is the perfect sidekick and QRP companion. 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It has 15 00:26:04.910 --> 00:26:08.250 discrete bandpass filters, the large collar touchscreen 00:26:08.250 --> 00:26:12.430 and spectrum scope, the real HF fun. starts here. 00:26:12.890 --> 00:26:15.670 Visit icomamerica .com slash amateur for more 00:26:15.670 --> 00:26:19.589 information on ICOM radios. For the love of Ham 00:26:19.589 --> 00:26:52.480 Radio. We put the ham in Ham Talk Live. And welcome 00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:55.660 back to HamTalk Live. Be sure to check us out 00:26:55.660 --> 00:26:59.880 on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. We'll let 00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:03.319 you know what's happening with the show. And 00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:06.720 before we get back to John Portun, W6NBC, talking 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:10.160 about toroids and balance, it's time for another 00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:14.809 N9GSU Joke of the Week. Now it's time for the 00:27:14.809 --> 00:27:18.089 HamTalk Live Ham Radio Joke of the Week, the 00:27:18.089 --> 00:27:20.849 part of the show where Rick tells us a ham radio 00:27:20.849 --> 00:27:23.750 joke. The HamTalk Live Ham Radio Joke of the 00:27:23.750 --> 00:27:27.490 Week is brought to you by QRM Labs. Now, here's 00:27:27.490 --> 00:27:31.769 Rick Garrett in 9GSU with today's HamTalk Live 00:27:31.769 --> 00:27:39.500 Joke of the Week. Mountain Dew is my drink of 00:27:39.500 --> 00:27:41.660 choice when I'm doing parks on the air activations. 00:27:41.740 --> 00:27:44.099 It gives me that extra shot of energy I need 00:27:44.099 --> 00:27:46.819 for those long activations and my wife told me 00:27:46.819 --> 00:27:50.240 that I was spending far too much time researching 00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:53.099 Mountain Dew prices trying to find the cheapest. 00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:56.660 I told her I was just doing my dew diligence. 00:27:57.869 --> 00:28:01.430 This has been the ham talk live ham radio joke 00:28:01.430 --> 00:28:05.109 of the week with Rick Heron in nine GSU Tune 00:28:05.109 --> 00:28:08.230 in again next week for another joke from Rick 00:28:08.230 --> 00:28:16.329 And we're back with John portune w6 NBC he is 00:28:16.329 --> 00:28:19.859 here and to talk a little bit about uh... toroids 00:28:19.859 --> 00:28:23.460 and balans and all this fun stuff and so we've 00:28:23.460 --> 00:28:26.319 talked a little bit about uh... what a balan 00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:31.059 is and what it does so now john how do i know 00:28:31.059 --> 00:28:34.799 how many how many times to wrap this wire around 00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:38.839 those things uh... to make the the kind of antenna 00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:44.950 that i want Now that you've picked yourself a 00:28:44.950 --> 00:28:47.890 toroid you picked a 240 or a 140 and you picked 00:28:47.890 --> 00:28:52.049 a 43 or you picked a 31 mix for the power and 00:28:52.049 --> 00:28:54.250 the size of the toroid. You've got the toroid 00:28:54.250 --> 00:28:55.869 sitting in front of you. You want to know how 00:28:55.869 --> 00:28:58.609 many turns to put on it, which will choke off 00:28:58.609 --> 00:29:00.950 the outside shield current, because that's what 00:29:00.950 --> 00:29:02.829 it is. It's an outside shield current choke. 00:29:03.170 --> 00:29:06.309 That's its function in life. Balance to unbalance 00:29:06.309 --> 00:29:08.869 is a meaningless kind of a term to me, as far 00:29:08.869 --> 00:29:11.190 as I'm concerned. Yes, it does that. That's real. 00:29:11.609 --> 00:29:17.589 But that doesn't help you visualize what it does. 00:29:18.700 --> 00:29:22.359 What I recommend you do, you need to go to coil 00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:26.460 32 or coil 64 and get that little calculator. 00:29:26.980 --> 00:29:30.240 It's available free on the internet. And it will 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:34.000 have embedded in it a little calculator that 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:36.460 Amidon toroids, you've probably heard of Amidon 00:29:36.460 --> 00:29:40.660 toroids. They're in Oceanside, California. They 00:29:40.660 --> 00:29:43.140 sell toroids. They're a big seller of toroids. 00:29:43.460 --> 00:29:45.519 Buy your toroids from them if you want. They 00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:48.319 have a wonderful little calculator that does 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:51.619 the calculation for you of how many turns to 00:29:51.619 --> 00:29:56.829 put on your toroid. you put on your toroid. It 00:29:56.829 --> 00:29:58.950 lets you put the mix in, it lets you put the 00:29:58.950 --> 00:30:02.450 size of the toroid, and then the third thing 00:30:02.450 --> 00:30:07.369 it needs, it needs the inductance. How many microhenries 00:30:07.369 --> 00:30:10.990 the toroid needs to have on it. And that's just 00:30:10.990 --> 00:30:13.410 the thing you need to figure out. You need to 00:30:13.410 --> 00:30:17.829 figure out how many microhenries you need on 00:30:17.829 --> 00:30:20.789 that toroid, and that's quite easy to figure. 00:30:21.190 --> 00:30:24.089 There's a fairly simple little little formula 00:30:24.089 --> 00:30:27.289 that you can use. I should have written it down 00:30:27.289 --> 00:30:32.069 here. I don't have it memorized. But you need 00:30:32.069 --> 00:30:34.990 to calculate how many microhenries you need to 00:30:34.990 --> 00:30:39.289 do. It's 1 over 2 pi f times the frequency in 00:30:39.289 --> 00:30:44.150 inductance. 1 over 2 pi f L is the formula. You 00:30:44.150 --> 00:30:47.289 need to figure out how many microhenries you 00:30:47.289 --> 00:30:52.410 need. As I say, the number of microhenries is 00:30:52.410 --> 00:30:59.109 1 divided by 2 pi times the frequency in hertz. 00:30:59.869 --> 00:31:03.609 If you do it in microhenries, you can do it in 00:31:03.609 --> 00:31:08.589 megahertz. And then you get the number of microhenries 00:31:08.589 --> 00:31:14.000 that you need. And that needs to equal. 200 ohms 00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:17.279 AC resistance. That's the amount of ohms you 00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:22.799 need to have to choke off the current. Because 00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:25.740 you're in a 50 ohm system, remember coax is 50 00:31:25.740 --> 00:31:28.400 ohms, you need to have at least four times the 00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:33.599 amount of resistance on the toroid. And that 00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:36.700 needs to be about 200 ohms. You need to get 200 00:31:36.700 --> 00:31:41.019 ohms of resistance, AC resistance in inductance. 00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:44.380 in wire. And that little calculator that that 00:31:44.380 --> 00:31:47.380 little calculator that's that that Amidon provides 00:31:47.380 --> 00:31:52.940 and that calculator can be found at coil32 .net. 00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:57.339 Again that's coil32 .net and go to the calculators 00:31:57.339 --> 00:32:01.180 and there's one there for ferrites. Handier than 00:32:01.180 --> 00:32:03.559 scat. Then it'll push the button it'll tell you 00:32:03.559 --> 00:32:06.240 wind four turns or wind two turns. If you want 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:08.220 a good example if you want I'll see all of this 00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:13.329 in writing. Look at the Look at the ARRL's publication 00:32:13.329 --> 00:32:16.170 on the air. That's the Newby magazine. You know, 00:32:16.250 --> 00:32:18.410 the Newby magazine that they publish every month, 00:32:18.789 --> 00:32:21.710 every two months. The current issue of the Newby 00:32:21.710 --> 00:32:24.990 magazine shows you how to do all of this. All 00:32:24.990 --> 00:32:27.750 of this that I'm talking about here today, including 00:32:27.750 --> 00:32:30.910 describing what a ballon does and so forth. The 00:32:30.910 --> 00:32:33.769 Newby magazine has an article that I just wrote 00:32:33.769 --> 00:32:36.470 showing you how to do that and showing you how 00:32:36.470 --> 00:32:39.029 to get that calculator and where it is and all 00:32:39.029 --> 00:32:41.630 of that stuff. It's all in this all in this current 00:32:41.630 --> 00:32:44.470 issue of On The Air magazine, which you can get 00:32:44.470 --> 00:32:47.589 a copy of just by going to the ARRL. And if you 00:32:47.589 --> 00:32:49.970 remember and reading this month's issue of the 00:32:49.970 --> 00:32:57.089 magazine on a FT 140 toroid. Alright, so we go 00:32:57.089 --> 00:33:00.049 and get the calculator and we put in our frequency 00:33:00.049 --> 00:33:03.269 and we figure out how many turns that we need 00:33:03.269 --> 00:33:06.970 to wrap this wire around it and then where we 00:33:06.970 --> 00:33:10.670 go from there. Well, then you stall the ballon 00:33:10.670 --> 00:33:15.990 wherever your coax ends. Yep, okay. So it's time 00:33:15.990 --> 00:33:21.250 to put up the antenna. You know, again, we've 00:33:21.250 --> 00:33:24.890 got different ones for HF and VHF because you've 00:33:24.890 --> 00:33:30.589 got a big gap in frequency coverage there. Yeah, 00:33:30.609 --> 00:33:32.529 well, you need a different mix for the different 00:33:32.529 --> 00:33:34.930 frequencies and you need a different number of 00:33:34.930 --> 00:33:37.609 turns because it doesn't need as many turns at 00:33:37.609 --> 00:33:41.450 VHF as it does at HF. And if you're building 00:33:41.450 --> 00:33:44.130 it for lower frequency HF, you need more turns 00:33:44.130 --> 00:33:46.190 and so forth. But the little calculator lets 00:33:46.190 --> 00:33:51.009 you take care of that. Okay, very good. So yeah, 00:33:51.089 --> 00:33:53.509 make sure you check out On The Air. Let's see, 00:33:53.509 --> 00:33:57.069 we're recording this on January 29th of 2023. 00:33:57.230 --> 00:34:00.470 Do you know if that's the... It's the current 00:34:00.470 --> 00:34:03.490 one, which I think is... Ah, okay, okay. That 00:34:03.490 --> 00:34:09.070 is the January and February 2023 issue of On 00:34:09.070 --> 00:34:12.309 The Air Magazine, which is indeed the current 00:34:12.309 --> 00:34:17.329 issue on arrl .org right now. Well, John, anything 00:34:17.329 --> 00:34:20.750 else we should know about toroids today? Oh, 00:34:20.769 --> 00:34:25.010 yes, I might mention that if you're making a 00:34:25.010 --> 00:34:28.409 one -to -one or a four -to -one or a nine -to 00:34:28.409 --> 00:34:34.230 -one balance for an end -fed long wire, the same 00:34:34.230 --> 00:34:37.750 principles apply. You only need to concern yourself, 00:34:37.889 --> 00:34:41.750 though, with the smaller winding. a smaller winding 00:34:41.750 --> 00:34:44.789 that's the only one that needs to the calculator 00:34:44.789 --> 00:34:46.929 only needs to be used on the smaller winding 00:34:46.929 --> 00:34:49.329 because if you put on let's say two turns on 00:34:49.329 --> 00:34:53.070 a nine to one and 18 turns on the on the other 00:34:53.070 --> 00:34:56.670 side you know uh for the uh for the for the nine 00:34:56.670 --> 00:35:00.710 the nine side of the the nine to one or a balance 00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:05.199 You only need to concern yourself with the side 00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:07.880 that connects to the coax, because that's where 00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:10.400 you need the choking, is on the coax. You don't 00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:12.980 need the choking on the antenna side. You need 00:35:12.980 --> 00:35:17.380 the choking on the coax side of the balance. 00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:22.820 A one -to -one is the same on both sides. Another 00:35:22.820 --> 00:35:26.699 point I might make about winding ferrite balance 00:35:26.699 --> 00:35:32.199 is the use of zip cord. Common zip cord is great 00:35:32.199 --> 00:35:37.159 stuff for winding balance, because it lets you 00:35:37.159 --> 00:35:39.820 wind the double winding that you always wind 00:35:39.820 --> 00:35:43.320 on a toroid, one for the input, one for the output. 00:35:45.260 --> 00:35:52.480 Because zip cord is pretty much 50 ohm. transmission 00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:55.039 line it's very close to 50 ohm transmission line 00:35:55.039 --> 00:35:58.019 it's amazing take your common extension cord 00:35:58.019 --> 00:36:00.579 and cut a piece that's what I used in the current 00:36:00.579 --> 00:36:04.199 article in on the air magazine was just a piece 00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:07.260 of common extension cord and the little calculator 00:36:07.260 --> 00:36:10.059 said wine four turns of it so I won four turns 00:36:10.059 --> 00:36:12.920 of common zip cord hooked one end up to an SO 00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:16.599 239 the other end to a couple of eye bolts and 00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:22.670 we had a balance Yeah, that's a neat thing and 00:36:22.670 --> 00:36:24.809 always helps when you can just use some stuff 00:36:24.809 --> 00:36:28.510 laying around the house or Pick up the restore 00:36:28.510 --> 00:36:31.289 or something like that, you know, you don't have 00:36:31.289 --> 00:36:35.809 to have all the fancy stuff Well, the newbies 00:36:35.809 --> 00:36:41.769 like that kind of stuff But Sam's we like cheap 00:36:41.769 --> 00:36:47.500 too we do like cheap stuff Well, John, thank 00:36:47.500 --> 00:36:50.940 you so much for being with us here to talk about 00:36:50.940 --> 00:36:55.659 some toroids and balance and so for people getting 00:36:55.659 --> 00:37:00.699 the urge to build an antenna to get out there. 00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:05.800 I know I've got this in fed up now. At least 00:37:05.800 --> 00:37:09.480 I have something out there. That's not my... 00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:14.340 I like it. My preferred antenna, but as you are 00:37:14.340 --> 00:37:20.820 well an expert at as well, the HOA police haven't 00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:25.860 found it yet. I fight them all the time. By the 00:37:25.860 --> 00:37:28.719 way, I like NFID half waves. I think they're 00:37:28.719 --> 00:37:32.000 great antennas. They have the unique quality 00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:38.420 with a nice 9 to 1 or 49 to 1 balance. Some people 00:37:38.420 --> 00:37:40.940 get confused about why they call it a 9 to 1 00:37:40.940 --> 00:37:44.780 or a 49 to 1. 9 to 1 is the turns ratio, 49 to 00:37:44.780 --> 00:37:47.460 1 is the impedance ratio of the same ballon. 00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:51.320 For the nice 49 or 9 to 1 ballon at the end of 00:37:51.320 --> 00:37:56.219 an NFID half -wave antenna, it not only works 00:37:56.219 --> 00:37:59.179 at the lowest frequency, it works at the harmonics 00:37:59.179 --> 00:38:02.780 too. That's what I like about the NFID half -wave. 00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:08.219 You know, I've been kind of happy with it. F 00:38:08.219 --> 00:38:13.179 -Four... for some things. It's not helping with 00:38:13.179 --> 00:38:17.360 these de -expeditions on Antarctica and things 00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:21.619 like that, but it gets the job done. It's a compromise 00:38:21.619 --> 00:38:24.719 antenna, no question about it. It's easy and 00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:28.679 cheap, you know. It works pretty well for a piece 00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:34.619 of wire. It works well for the one criteria which 00:38:34.619 --> 00:38:42.349 is nobody can see it. yourself a piece of 26 00:38:42.349 --> 00:38:45.730 gauge Davis Davis stealth flex and it's barely 00:38:45.730 --> 00:38:49.670 visible. Yeah, that's another good piece of another 00:38:49.670 --> 00:38:54.030 good tip. And most of the ham dealers sell Davis 00:38:54.030 --> 00:38:59.110 stealth flex. It's a very, it's made of very, 00:38:59.250 --> 00:39:03.829 very fine wire, and it's copper clad steel wire, 00:39:04.070 --> 00:39:07.510 so it doesn't stretch. It doesn't stretch in 00:39:07.510 --> 00:39:12.110 many, many, fine, many, many, fine strands. And 00:39:12.110 --> 00:39:16.590 then it's covered in a very, very tough polyethylene 00:39:16.590 --> 00:39:20.750 jacket. So I've had, and they make it in, I think, 00:39:21.010 --> 00:39:25.869 26 gauge, 13 gauge or 14 gauge, and then I think 00:39:25.869 --> 00:39:30.150 11 gauge or 12 gauge. It's moderately, it has 00:39:30.150 --> 00:39:34.260 a moderate price tag on it. Excellent for putting 00:39:34.260 --> 00:39:38.440 up wire antennas. I've had a loop of 26 of their 00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:43.119 20 26 gauge wire around my house for a long time. 00:39:43.420 --> 00:39:45.599 That stuff has been up there for a little for 00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:50.659 ages. It never stretches. Great wire. Good for 00:39:50.659 --> 00:39:54.260 good visible antennas. Yeah, well, that's that's 00:39:54.260 --> 00:39:57.519 the name of the game right now. So till I can 00:39:57.519 --> 00:40:02.780 remedy that so So it's at least got me on the 00:40:02.780 --> 00:40:06.760 air, I will say that. 20 meters, yeah, not so 00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:10.860 much, but it's at least got me on the air. Well, 00:40:10.860 --> 00:40:13.400 John, thanks again for being here and educating 00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:18.039 us on this stuff and we'll talk to you soon. 00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:23.400 And again, watch for articles from John in QST 00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:27.739 and on the air. So a good place to find some 00:40:27.739 --> 00:40:31.130 good projects to do. Thanks, John. Appreciate 00:40:31.130 --> 00:40:36.150 it. My pleasure and all the best. That is a wrap 00:40:36.150 --> 00:40:39.369 for this edition of HamTalk Live. I'd like to 00:40:39.369 --> 00:40:43.679 thank my guest, John Portun, W6NBC. and everybody 00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:46.119 out there in cyberspace for listening and invite 00:40:46.119 --> 00:40:49.039 you back next time and coming up we will be coming 00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:53.639 to you live from the Orlando hamcation here in 00:40:53.639 --> 00:40:57.059 a couple of weeks so make sure you tune in for 00:40:57.059 --> 00:41:00.719 that we may have may have be on the air one more 00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:04.239 time before then but we'll Definitely be on from 00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:08.659 Orlando, so make sure you catch that. For a list 00:41:08.659 --> 00:41:11.579 of all of our upcoming guests, go to HamTalkLive 00:41:11.579 --> 00:41:16.139 .com. So for now, this is Neil Rapp, WB9VPG, 00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:21.500 saying 7 -3, 7 -5, and may the good DX be yours. 00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:36.019 To you and your family I'll be seeing you further 00:41:36.019 --> 00:41:40.500 down the line It's hard to believe that you're 00:41:40.500 --> 00:41:43.559 empty indeed Cause you sound just like a local 00:41:43.559 --> 00:41:49.599 up here But why don't those whistling Mediterranean's 00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:50.480 check it with a ring?