This episode of HamTalk Live is brought to you
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Neorep, here we go Welcome to Amtoc Live Everyone,
it's time for HamTalk Live. It's episode number
315, CW with CICR, recorded on Thursday, April
6th, 2023. I'm your host, Neil Rapp, WB9VPG.
Thanks for tuning into this episode of HamTalk
Live. Tonight, we're joined by Glenn Norman,
W4YES, and Terry Beard, KO4WFP. to talk about
a new way to learn how to learn CW. Last episode,
Dr. Nathaniel Frizzell, W2NAF, and Gary McKeaton,
KF8A, were here to talk about the Spring HamSci
Conference. If you missed that show, you can
listen anytime at HamTalkLive .com or on your
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grass may be greener on the other side, but at
least we don't have to mow it. You're listening
to HamTalk Live with Neil Rapp. And welcome back
to HamTalk Live. Tonight, Glenn Norman, W4YES
from Decatur, Alabama, and Terry Beard, KO4WFP
from Savannah, Georgia. Join us on the Orlando
Amateur Radio Club and Hamcation Zoom line after
six years of teaching CW in August of 2020. 2022,
Glenn Norman, W4YES, began compiling an entirely
independent CW course called the Comprehensive
Instant Character Recognition Course or Comprehensive
ICR course or even better just CICR and CICR
is offered free of charge to all and Terri Beard,
K -O for WFP, is a recent graduate of the pilot
CICR course and is here to talk about it from
the student's perspective. So Glenn and Terri,
thank you for coming on the show and welcome
to HamTalk Live. Thank you, Neil. It's good to
be here. It's an honor. Thank you. Thank you,
Neil. All right. Well, Glenn, let's talk a little
bit about What is this CICR? I get this email
in my box from Karen Eve Murray, KD2GUT, our
editor over at Amateur Radio Newsline, and she
says, you really need to talk to Glen about this,
because this is a really cool CW thing. And I
know she's just been getting into CW recently.
So tell us a little bit about what this is, because
a lot of people have not heard of this. Okay,
very good. Thank you so much, Neil. That's a
mouthful, a comprehensive, instant character
recognition course. So yeah, CICR, it is, you
know, after doing this for a number of years,
I realized that typically what we do in CW courses
is we learn and we learn and learn and learn
with the end goal of getting on the air. So what
I did is I took that model and flipped it upside
down and said, if you're on the air, I don't
care if you're sending three DITs and your buddy's
sending three DOS, okay? There's no minimum requirement.
But if you have the ability to get on the air
and you are willing to do it, and you wish to
get better and improve, then come on on board.
And so basically we're not teaching the code.
In other words, these are people who already
know the code, but our slogan is learning how
to learn Morse code. That's really important
because along the way, I think, at least in some
cases, maybe we practice, but we're not really
sure how we're supposed to practice or train.
And so what we're doing here is really focusing
on learning how to learn the code and applying
that on the air. So instead of learning with
that goal in mind, we start off with that, and
then as a person learns, they can immediately
apply that to their own air experience. So counting
the number of Dits and Dawes for each letter
Probably isn't going to get your code speed up
is what you're saying Well, it depends on what
you mean, right? If you're doing it one word
a minute, you probably get to two. But yeah,
yeah Because I can I can first have firsthand
knowledge of that I memorized Dits and Dawes
when I learned it and And that's something that's
held me back Well, it's what everyone has to
do, right? In order to learn this, you really
have to learn it at that level. But at some point,
you reach what some people call a plateau, but
it's really just that mechanism you're using
to copy the code has simply expired. You simply
can't get past that point because the brain just
can't process those dits and dogs fast enough
to get beyond that point. And so what we do is
we, the smallest The smallest element of sound
that we use in this class is a character. So
we get the character speed up to 30 plus words
per minute. Now we're not copying 30 plus words
per minute, but we're listening to the code with
a character speed of 30 plus words per minute.
So it will sound like a single unit of sound.
So we're kind of bending the brain away from
the dits and does. over to that area where a
did -da -da -da is an F, right? It doesn't decode
to an F, it is an F. I had a student one time
ask a question, in class, he goes, what's a question
mark? And before I could answer, another student
said, it's a did -da -da -da, did it? And the
student who answered said, it sounds like a question
mark. I said, yes, yes, that's exactly right.
It sounds like a question mark. Now, what we're
going, our goal now is for every character to
sound like itself. And so as you're copying is
less about this and does and that's about the
sound of the characters is just as if someone
speaking letters to you. And i would make the
analogy of of of learning a foreign language
for you know i learned spanish. And so I would
think, okay, I hear this word, this is what this
word is in English, and now I associate that.
And if you can skip that middle part, you're
going to be much more fluent in that language.
And CW is a language. You're trying to skip that
part to where you know exactly what that is,
not have to decode it and then figure out what
that is. Right, that's an extra step, you're
right. We're trying to eliminate the steps between
the code coming into your ears and you understanding
what that was. And what we're focusing on, Neil,
is to copy words from the beginning to the end.
That may sound kind of sort of intuitive, but
oftentimes we'll hear, as we're copying the code,
we get to the end and we go, okay, I know that
word ended in an E and there was an S in there
somewhere. I copied every character, but I don't
have any idea what it said. So instead, if you
hear H and you think, okay, it starts with an
H, O, okay, that's U, this could be house or
Houston or something, S, okay, E, and then the
word stops. At that split second, you have now
copied that word because you have to have copied
that word at the end immediately because guess
what's about to happen? The next word is coming
right after. So you can't wait until the end
to try to look back and put the pieces together.
It's too late. So that's really what we're focusing
on. We don't have Pat Sajak around to get us
a deal of fortune and figure out the letters,
right? That's a little slow. Yeah, yeah, that's
a little slow. Well, We'll get into the depth
of this a little bit more, but if this sounds
interesting to someone, how do they sign up and
how do they attend this course? It's not dot
com, it's dot net. Or you can just use my website,
dot com, W4YES, my call sign, W4YES .com. We'll
redirect you to the website. There's an application
form there. You fill out the application form
and we automatically get the results for the
application form. You'll get a verification that
it was received. What we do is we actually interview
people for their readiness for the course. and
it has worked out well because there's some who
are ready and some who might not be, but maybe
they're not quite ready yet and we can give them
ideas about how to prepare for the next time
around to get to be accepted. So that's the process,
the website, cwinnovations .net, sign up on the
application form and we'll take it from there.
And as we said at the beginning, it is... Free
of charge, so the price is right on that one.
It's free. So why are you doing this? Why do
this and not just copy some bulletins or something?
Well, okay. This is going to sound a really weird
deal. We don't copy or send code in the class.
Okay, let's have that kind of sink in for a second.
That has to kind of sink in for a second. We
don't copy or send code in the classroom. And
as odd as that might sound, think about a standard
classroom slash homework, other kinds of classes.
You learn the subject in the classroom and you
do your homework on your own. So the students
are expected to do their training and their on
-air exercises themselves. Because everyone learns
a bit differently, and we want to have a closed
group that is a, we lock arms. The whole understanding
behind this group is we are not going to criticize,
there's no judgment, this is a comfortable, safe
place for us to be. If you're having struggles,
we want you to speak up. If you're having victories,
we will applaud. This is a really fundamental
piece of this. And what that does by not sending
or copying code in the class is we can have people
that are at 12 words a minute, we can have people
at 15, we can have people at 20, because it's
all the same set of tools to get from one point
to the next. There is no variety of... Once you
have this bag of tricks, this bag of tools, then
you don't really need... Ain't another class
to get faster. You have all the tools you need.
So it opens this group up to the ubiquitous tent
that says, it doesn't matter where you are or
what your goals are. We're not going to get in
there and start sending and copying code because
I've been in that situation. I was usually the
caboose. Okay. And I know what that feels like
to be the, you know, the one that says, well,
everybody else copied that, but I didn't. And
that's not a fun place to be. We're not exposing
anyone to that. And we don't really need to,
because this is not where we practice. Imagine
going into a calculus class, for instance, and
the professor says, we're going to do the problems
at the back of the chapter during the classroom.
Like, well, wait a minute, when do I learn the
subject? When do you teach me how to learn this?
Well, that's what we are doing. And so far it
has worked out very well. And everyone has the
ability to find the best way that they learn
on their own. They come back into the group,
they describe maybe some struggles, they get
some ideas from other people in their class,
and we just lock arms and come alongside each
other and share our experience. And it is a tremendous...
tremendous camaraderie experience that we share.
And what comes out the other side is usually
a lot of really good friends that have experienced
something unique. Well, speaking of friends,
we have Terry Beard, K04WFP, also with us tonight.
And Terry, you were the guinea pig. You were
one of the first ones to go through this. So
tell us what you experienced in CICR. The CICR
class is a wonderful experience. In fact, we
were talking about Karen. Karen, Katie2GUT is
my code buddy, and I've gotten to know her very
well through the class. I started the class at
about 10 to 12 words per minute, and I would
agree with things I've heard of. The people I
was kind of stuck at that speed. And this class
enabled me to go to 15 to 17. That's about where
I'm hovering right now. I began doing head copy
through this class. And I actually had copy here
and there on the air when there. And as Glenn
said, I don't need any more CW classes. I don't
go to any more sending classes. I have all the
tools I need to take myself to the next step.
And the camaraderie, I would say, as well, the
friendships that I have formed. In fact, there
are six or seven of us who believe in this so
much that we've actually signed on to continue
to help be facilitators, to help team members,
new students that are coming along. So it's a
wonderful experience. And I encourage anyone
who says. You know, I'd really like to do a little
bit better in this. I'd like to excel at CW.
I'd like to rag to, or I'd like to make whatever
my goal is. Well, apply and see what the magic
is all about. It's always practice. It comes
down to practice and knowing how to practice.
And that's what I think is really cool about
this is It really digs down into knowing what
to go practice and then you go practice it. You've
said already that you're seeing instant results
with your code speed going up and I'm sure as
you practice more and work on that more that
it will continue to go up. I'll jump in here
for just a second, Neil. One of the things that
I'm undertaking is I'm actually pursuing the
Marathon Award for SKCC, the Strait Key Century
Club. And that's a huge undertaking for those
who are not familiar with the Strait Key Century
Club. They have what's called the Marathon Award.
It is 100 QSOs, each with a unique op. And each
of those has to be at least 60 minutes of code.
And I know there's people who go, oh my word,
you would do that. It's an amazing journey, and
this class enabled me to do that. My first marathon
was with another class member, and that was back
in October when the class started. And over time,
as I gained in ICER, I gained in proficiency,
my ability to do the marathons has definitely
progressed. It's just a wonderful class, and
it's given me the tools to be able to accomplish
the goals that I want. And I'm not sure I would
be as far along with the marathons if I had not
taken this course. I'm up to 58 now. I'm a little
over halfway at this point. Good job. Good job.
By the way, real quick, Neil, we've had two speakers.
It works well, Glenn. Well, thank you. We've
had two people already in the class who have
achieved the marathon award, the SKCC marathon
award while they were taking the class. That
hopefully says something and we just have fun.
The main ingredient in all of this is to have
fun. And if you're not having fun, then why are
you here, right? So we do yuck it up, we laugh,
but it turns into a lot of good friends that
are just... First of all, laugh at yourself,
right? When you get it wrong, laugh at yourself
and then laugh with others and just have a good
time. And we're not going to do this, we're not
going to have fun because that is the main ingredient.
Yep. That's a great way to... to inspire more
learning is to have fun with it. And that's a
great, great idea. You said something about practice
real quick. Just real quick. I had an instructor
on a completely different course. It wasn't even
a CW course. But I remember saying the words,
practice makes perfect, right? And the instructor
said, no, perfect practice makes perfect. And
what he was really saying was, you can practice
wrong and never get where you want to go. But
let me show you how to do this well and practice
the correct way and you'll really achieve your
goals. And so that's really an important piece
of this. Absolutely. Couldn't say it better myself.
Well, we're going to take a break right now and
when we come back with Glenn and Terry, we're
going to dig in a little bit more into the depths
of the CICR course. and we'll learn more about
it right after this word from tower electronics
right here on ham talk live jerry what's up man
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know those antenna projects i've been meaning
to do I had to do them before my HOA finds out
I have antennas. That's too bad, Jerry. I miss
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How's it going? Did you get all those antennas
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Joke of the Week. My buddy and I were coming
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Rick Garrett in nine GSU Tune in again next week
for another joke from Rick And we're back here
with Glenn Norman W4YES and Terry Beard KO4WFP
We're talking about the CICR course the comprehensive
instant character recognition course for CW and
it's for CW operators to improve speed and efficiency
uh... once you have learned the actual characters
and so we're going to talk a little bit more
about some of the components of the class so
glenn tell us a little more about the different
parts of this class what makes it CICR okay thank
you Neil first of all Well, having gone through
this before in the opposite direction, I found
a propensity oftentimes of someone jumping ahead
and thinking, oh, I don't need the character
recognition sorts of things. I know the characters
and they sort of just leap over that piece. So
I've modularized the class. So there's nine modules.
When you begin the class, you are allowed You
have the privilege of seeing Module 1, and then
when you progress we go to Module 2 as a group,
then Module 3. In other words, we focus on pieces
of this. You don't have access to the material
afterwards. So this is the modularization and
the reason why it's done that way. To give you
some idea, the modules are composed of things
like what I call thought sending or head sending,
which means you're not looking at a piece of
paper or sending what's on that paper, but you're
really thinking about what you're sending. Close
your eyes and just have a conversation with yourself,
sort of like a rag chew. By the way, we're not
looking to make rag chewers out of everyone.
The idea behind this is when we get to module
three, for instance, is the instant character
recognition component. And this is the hub of
the wheel. Everything, this is like pouring the
foundation of the house. This is what everything
rests upon, is the instant character recognition
piece. And you think about spoken letters, for
instance, like the letter W. If I say W, you
don't really think about all the things that
I just did with my vocal cords, tongue, teeth
and lips. You just see a W in your mind. And
so every character in Morse code, of course,
is made up of Dits and Dots, but like the spoken
letter, we tend to hear it as a single sound.
So that's what we focus on on that particular
module. Mistakes is a big piece of this. As odd
as it sounds, we want people to make mistakes.
The brain is focused on getting everything right,
and oftentimes if we don't get everything right,
we dial it back, we slow it down, we grip that
pencil a little tighter, and we just really do
whatever it takes to copy what comes in, because
making a mistake is just unforgivable. but it's
when the mind makes a mistake that it changes,
that it learns. And so we actually ask people
to, once you get to about a 70%, 65 % -ish copy
rate, that's a good spot to stay, at least for
right now, because we need you to make these
mistakes. We need you to get things wrong. And
that is a really difficult thing, oftentimes,
for people to kind of get their head wrapped
around because we've all been so ... focus on
getting everything right. And getting everything
right is not a bad thing, of course, but there
is sort of a mind shift that happens that gets
from a fixed mindset to what we call a growth
mindset. The fixed mindset says, I can't do that.
Our growth mindset says, I can't do that yet.
And the yet is such an important piece of this.
Speaking of getting things wrong is what we call
missing fast. So we all, as we copy the code,
we miss things, right? But we all know what it
feels like when we miss, and you hear a da -da
-da -da, and you go J, you're thinking J, or
maybe that was a one. All these characters are
coming after, and you're still stuck back there
going, no, that was a J, no, that was a one,
which was that? Well, of course, you may have
succeeded in finally figuring out what that one
character is, but you have lost everything after
that. So we really focus on a skill called missing
fast. And that means if it doesn't snap in your
head, you throw it over your shoulder, you have
no rear view mirror, you keep looking forward
to what's coming next. And that's a really big
piece of it. The other thing is like we talked
about word building from the beginning to the
end. That is a huge piece of what we're doing
because if you can't create those words or call
signs as they come in, trying to look back and
trying to figure those out, you just simply don't
have time. So those are some of the fundamental
pieces of modules we get from that stage to words,
to phrases, to... stories, that sort of thing.
I try to make a ramp out of it instead of a stepping
stone because if you think if you're traveling
on a stepping stone, you're going to get a bloody
nose when you run into that next step and we're
trying to make sort of a ramp out of it and make
the transition as smooth as possible. By the
way, it's a 10 -week program. Didn't mention
that. We meet twice a week in the evening. Generally,
but we have a class coming up starting on the
24th of this month of April that is going to
meet in the early afternoon So it's actually
going to cater to the European crowd We have
someone in the UK and someone in Italy who's
going to be part of the class and we also have
someone in Colombia in Bogota That's going to
be joining the next class. So this is turning
into something besides just here in the States
So that's that's how the class sequences through
is through the modules Now another important
component of this is the code buddy So you want
to say a few words? Yeah The first go -around
when Terry was in the class we encouraged code
buddies the code buddy meaning you're going to
be on the air so find someone who you can schedule
a couple at least a couple of times a week and
I have sort of some accountability that says
I'm going to meet this person that this time
and this is going to be something regular because
a regular presence on the air is a very, very
important piece of this is to take what you've
learned and to apply that on air. And so it was
such success between Terry and her code buddy
that we decided the next go around, let's just
say this is what we need you to do is to have
a code buddy. And so it has worked out well and
I'll let Terry kind of speak to her experience
with that please, Terry. Companies are important
because why do we get on the air? We get on the
air because we're talking to somebody else, right?
And relationships are what get us on the air
and relationships are what keep us on the air.
At least that is for me. I enjoy all the different
ops that I get a chance to meet and converse
with and learn from. So a code buddy is a safe
place, just like we talked in the class. The
class is closed so that we can share our successes,
but we can also talk about our struggles and
our difficulties and help each other out and
realize, oh, yeah. I'm normal. Okay, somebody
else has that problem, just like I do, and help
us talk this off the ledge and get through it.
And a code buddy is a part of that safety net,
somebody that you can work through. And I am
so blessed to have met Karen. She has been a
wonderful code buddy. We started about the same
speed, just like Glenn said, you want someone
who's about the same speed as you. And we're
about 10 to 12 words per minute. And over the
course of the class, Now we're about 15 to 17,
we're evenly matched. And it was Karen who actually
was the first to suggest head copy between the
two of us. And I thought, oh my God, head copy,
really? Am I ready for this? This was probably
about halfway through the course. We hadn't even
reached the head copy module. And I was like...
OK, well, she's going to do it. I got to do it,
too. And we did it. And it was so exciting. It
was like, oh, my God, I actually had copy. This
is so amazing. And so a code buddy is somebody
who can help you, push you to achieve new things.
But there are also been times that she and I
are like, oh, I forgot it. I can't do this anymore.
I've lost the code. I mean, forget it. And the
other person says, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no. You're just having a bad day. It's OK.
Talk you off the ledge. Let's get back on again.
So a code buddy is a wonderful thing to have,
and I agree with Glenn. It needs to be a part
of this class. We have a new class that's going
on right now, 11 guys, and it's been interesting
to watch them work out their code buddies, and
they talk about, you know, QSOs that they've
had. So it's a wonderful opportunity to form
a relationship with somebody that can help you
achieve your goals and also be a safety net in
the process. And knowing Karen, as I do, you
also learn a lot about horses, squirrels, and
prairie dogs. That is true. There was also a
lizard somewhere in there, I think. Oh, yes.
Oh, my goodness. Oh, there is. I have to tell
that quick story. So in the class, I'm glad Glenn
reminded me about that. This was early on in
the journey. I think we were only a couple weeks.
the class and we had done some ICR and it was
cold outside and my husband actually had was
starting up the wood stove from the beginning
of the season and he found a lizard in there.
I don't know why a lizard was living in the wood
stove but he was and so he came in and told me
and Karen and I were having our code buddy and
I cue so and so I sent the word lizard and at
first she was like what there's a lizard in the
wood stove. And then afterwards, when we talked
about it, she was like, I copied the word lizard,
you know, I mean, I actually got it. And so it
became a standing joke in the class about lizards.
But yeah, you just never know what's going to
come up in your code buddy conversations. In
fact, Karen was convinced that she had copied
it wrong. She said, I could not have copied the
word lizard because she would not have sent the
word lizard. But once she found out that she
has, she was so excited, right? I mean, it's
a six letter word. And to think that we just
started head copying and I copied the word lizard.
And it's very encouraging to just come across
those moments like that. So this wasn't a repeat
of the the WKRP in Cincinnati show where the
bee was out on the teletype, and so they were
talking about the monster lizard that was hitting
Cincinnati. It was really the blizzard. It's
fun too, right? And a code buddy, by the way,
needs to be someone kind of... I remember someone
saying one time, he said, yeah, I have a code
buddy, but he's like at 40 words per minute,
and I'm afraid I'll embarrass myself. And I said,
well, then that person's not your code buddy.
Your code buddy is someone that you can feel
safe with and you can make mistakes and not feel
like, oh, what are they going to think of me
and that sort of thing. It just needs to be a
safe person too. Like Terry said, there will
be days when the code is just not clicking in
your brain and the other person that's just kind
of encouraged them is like, we'll just set it
down for right now and you'll be okay tomorrow.
Just take it easy. And you can ask for repeats.
That's another thing. You know, I think as a
newer op, I was always scared to say a question
mark. Like I didn't, like, oh, I'm admitting
I didn't get something. I made a mistake. And
you do that with your code buddy. I've had times
where I didn't get something either because of
QSB or my brain just wasn't working. And I've
asked her like three times. And by the third
time I got it, but your code buddy doesn't care.
It's like, that's okay. They're not judging you.
They're helping you try to achieve what you want
to achieve. Always important to have those relationships.
When you have that and you're working together,
you challenge each other and learn from each
other. Go ahead, Glenn. It's just a magical thing
to watch these kinds of things happen. It's not
something that I could ever orchestrate. It happens
because the people want to improve. We just try
to hand them the tools and say, You know, if
we're here, you can contact us anytime. And like
Terry said, the amazing part was after the pilot
class, at the end of one of the, toward the end
of the course, I asked anyone and said, hey,
we're going to be carrying this on to another
version. And so anyone who'd like to join us
in that effort, welcome to stick around after
this class is finished. And so some people dropped
off and Some people didn't and I was waiting
for more to drop off and I finally just paused
and said really There's six of you who want to
join us going forward and they were like, yes
Six out of ten six out of ten and by the way,
we didn't have any dropouts so far We had any
dropouts but but that was a huge piece that Informed
me that that we're really doing something that
people are enjoying This isn't something that
they dread having to go through, that they really
are enjoying this process. And like you say,
when it's fun, that's when the learning really,
really happens. And that was very encouraging.
So we have several people working with us now
on the coaching side that have experienced this.
I learned the code when I was a teenager. I cannot
experience what Terry is talking about, no matter
how hard I try. But what I can do is I can listen
to Terry and the others and learn from them.
So I always tell them, I'm learning more than
you are from me. And that's all I do is just
listen and try to formulate what we do based
on the feedback that we get. Because the feedback
is everything as far as what we do and how we
do it. It's their experience, not mine. Very
good. Very good. Well, we need to finish things
up here. So Glenn, Terry, anything else that
you've thought of that we need to just... speak
about with the CRCR before we adjourn here. We're
just having fun, Neil. We're just having a good
time. cwinnovations .net. Come sign up and we'll
talk and join the fun. And I really appreciate
Terry joining me tonight on this because one
of the reasons I asked her to join us was for
that reason I just said I cannot describe the
experience of what Terry can describe. Terry,
any final words? See what you want to accomplish
and come join us. and be ready for, as Glen said,
fun, but also being able to have the tools to
achieve whatever you want and know that what
you own your success, the effort that you put
in is what you're going to get out. If you put
in the time and you put in the effort and you
trust the methodology, you will have success
with this method. Neil, as we don't have set
semesters, we are going to, we have the capacity
to lead classes with people like Terry and as
we get people who sign up and we formulate a
group, we'll start a class. And so we're trying
to kind of keep it flexible and not something
that we have set. And if a certain semester doesn't
work for somebody or class didn't work, then
they can come in the next time perhaps and that
sort of thing. So we're just sort of a ragtag
team just having fun. So that's kind of it. Well,
that's what it's all about. So thank you so much
for doing this and taking the time to, you know,
to put all the thought into the process. the
learning process of getting this to be an automatic
recognition, something that you're not translating
in between and you're figuring out exactly what
is there right away. If I have time, I will be
signing up because it's been a long time since
I have rag chewed on CW. I do work a few de -expeditions
and that kind of thing on CW, but rag chew, yeah,
that's been a long time away. What I like to
say, Neil, is don't get proficient so you can
get on the air. Get on the air so you can get
proficient. Yeah. It really is that important
to switch that around. You're welcome anytime,
Neil. Well, thank you. Well, that's going to
do it for this episode of HamTalk Live. Thanks
to my guests, Glenn Norman, W4YES. and Terry
Beard K04WFP and everybody out there in cyberspace
for listening invite you back next time and we've
got a lot of Dayton Hamvention episodes coming
up soon so make sure you tune in for those and
we actually have several shows coming up here
soon so you can check those out over at our website
HamTalkLive .com So for now, this is Neil Rapp,
WB9VPG, saying 7 -3, 7 -5, may the good DX be
yours. You sound just like a local up here But
why don't those whistling Mediterranean's check
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wax About cabbages and kings So 73's, to you
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