WEBVTT 00:00:14.509 --> 00:00:17.670 Welcome to Our Voices, Our Future, the podcast 00:00:17.670 --> 00:00:20.230 where we amplify the voices driving change and 00:00:20.230 --> 00:00:22.750 equity within medicine and beyond. Brought to 00:00:22.750 --> 00:00:25.269 you by the Gender Equity Task Force, a committee 00:00:25.269 --> 00:00:27.510 of the American Medical Women's Association. 00:00:27.989 --> 00:00:30.690 We're here to challenge norms, break barriers 00:00:30.690 --> 00:00:33.729 and ignite conversations that matter. I'm Rhea 00:00:33.729 --> 00:00:36.390 Manohar and in each episode, we will bring you 00:00:36.390 --> 00:00:39.869 candid conversations with leaders, change makers 00:00:39.869 --> 00:00:42.469 and advocates working to create a more inclusive 00:00:42.469 --> 00:00:45.820 and just world. No more silence, no more waiting. 00:00:46.380 --> 00:00:49.539 You're listening to our voices, our future. Let's 00:00:49.539 --> 00:00:52.780 get to it. So today we are welcoming Dr. Erin 00:00:52.780 --> 00:00:56.200 Hurley, a retired physician turned certified 00:00:56.200 --> 00:00:59.399 productivity and wellbeing coach. Dr. Hurley 00:00:59.399 --> 00:01:02.679 is the founder of Transformational Doc, where 00:01:02.679 --> 00:01:05.640 she is dedicated to empowering healthcare professionals, 00:01:06.180 --> 00:01:08.760 especially women in medicine, to achieve career 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:11.079 success while fostering their own wellbeing. 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:14.560 Through her work as a physician and burnout recovery 00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:18.019 coach, she helps clinicians break free from burnout, 00:01:18.420 --> 00:01:21.819 find balance, and create lives they love, both 00:01:21.819 --> 00:01:24.519 in and out of medicine. Drawing on her years 00:01:24.519 --> 00:01:27.439 of experience in clinical practice and her passion 00:01:27.439 --> 00:01:31.640 for personal growth, Dr. Hurley is helping reshape 00:01:31.640 --> 00:01:35.719 how we think about success, sustainability, and 00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:39.170 self -care in healthcare. So Dr. Hurley, welcome 00:01:39.170 --> 00:01:41.109 to the show. It's such a pleasure to have you 00:01:41.109 --> 00:01:43.909 here. It's great to finally meet you, Rhea. Good 00:01:43.909 --> 00:01:47.950 to be here. So getting started, you've had such 00:01:47.950 --> 00:01:51.010 a meaningful career in medicine and now as a 00:01:51.010 --> 00:01:54.650 physician coach. Can you share a bit about your 00:01:54.650 --> 00:01:57.069 journey? What drew you to medicine and how has 00:01:57.069 --> 00:02:01.359 that passion evolved over time? Well, my initial 00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:03.859 passion for medicine started because I admired 00:02:03.859 --> 00:02:06.280 my older brother and he decided he wanted to 00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:08.240 be a veterinarian when I was in about fourth 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:11.000 grade. So I wanted to be a veterinarian and that 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:13.520 stuck with me until I was a college freshman. 00:02:13.900 --> 00:02:16.759 And then I realized that I wanted to become a 00:02:16.759 --> 00:02:23.639 people doctor and went along that route. medical 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:25.819 mission work to get some experience. I went to 00:02:25.819 --> 00:02:30.280 Malawi, Africa as a pre -med and and yet I wasn't 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:32.259 the traditional medical student. I didn't have 00:02:32.259 --> 00:02:36.050 any. doctors in my family. And when I met with 00:02:36.050 --> 00:02:38.669 the premed advisor and I was not a straight A 00:02:38.669 --> 00:02:41.669 student, I think I had a C plus in physics. Not 00:02:41.669 --> 00:02:45.009 that I would recommend that. She basically said, 00:02:45.009 --> 00:02:47.090 you know, you're not going to get through our 00:02:47.090 --> 00:02:49.629 rigorous curriculum because they had a program 00:02:49.629 --> 00:02:52.770 that took 350 medical students and then whittled 00:02:52.770 --> 00:02:55.189 it down to 24 by the end of your junior year 00:02:55.189 --> 00:02:57.430 of college. And then you would start as a first 00:02:57.430 --> 00:03:00.090 year medical student in a kind of a sister program 00:03:00.090 --> 00:03:03.580 with UCLA. And so she was used to these perfect 00:03:03.580 --> 00:03:05.759 students who lived in the library, and I was 00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:09.560 social. I was in a sorority. Anyway, so she basically 00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:11.159 said, you're not going to get through our program, 00:03:11.180 --> 00:03:13.240 and don't even bother applying to medical school. 00:03:14.319 --> 00:03:17.259 Thankfully, my sister, for some reason, was dating 00:03:17.259 --> 00:03:19.139 a medical student at the time who lived about 00:03:19.139 --> 00:03:21.919 an hour away. He became my mentor, really helped 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:24.699 me figure out what did I need to do for my type 00:03:24.699 --> 00:03:27.199 of pre -med student, and helped me successfully 00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:31.620 get into medical school. And that was really 00:03:32.270 --> 00:03:36.870 It was a powerful message for me because I took 00:03:36.870 --> 00:03:40.789 a gap year before that was popular and was able 00:03:40.789 --> 00:03:44.530 to not listen to the expert who was supposed 00:03:44.530 --> 00:03:46.689 to be guiding me and gave me advice that I didn't 00:03:46.689 --> 00:03:49.110 want to follow. And I knew I was meant to be 00:03:49.110 --> 00:03:52.090 a doctor. And I'm so grateful that I didn't listen 00:03:52.090 --> 00:03:55.020 to that advice and was able to. follow the career 00:03:55.020 --> 00:03:59.199 that I wanted and fell into pediatrics because 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:02.360 I loved working with children my entire life. 00:04:02.900 --> 00:04:06.879 And so that was an amazing match for me to work 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:09.360 in first general pediatrics. And then 15 years 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:13.060 into my career, I took a pivot and leaned into 00:04:13.060 --> 00:04:15.979 specializing in child abuse medicine. That's 00:04:15.979 --> 00:04:20.579 so interesting. What kind of led you to go from 00:04:20.579 --> 00:04:25.560 being primarily a physician to now doing the 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:29.600 coaching that you do? It started with my own 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:32.600 journey getting coached so at age 50 I had a 00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:35.759 bit of a pity party and I usually took my birthday 00:04:35.759 --> 00:04:38.879 off and in that year I was the medical director. 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:41.339 I had new staff and we had this annual training 00:04:41.339 --> 00:04:43.899 going on. So I offered to stay back at the clinic 00:04:43.899 --> 00:04:46.279 and man the fort the entire week. And then I 00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:48.459 got sick and I was working from home on my birthday, 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:50.639 which was before we were used to working from 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:53.810 home. It was not very easy to do. So big pity 00:04:53.810 --> 00:04:56.290 party. And I said, I'm going to celebrate myself 00:04:56.290 --> 00:04:59.930 this entire year. And I had an opportunity and 00:04:59.930 --> 00:05:02.829 was invited into a coaching program a few weeks 00:05:02.829 --> 00:05:04.509 later. And I was like, I'm going to, I'm going 00:05:04.509 --> 00:05:07.329 to celebrate my birthday all year long. And because 00:05:07.329 --> 00:05:09.589 I had to work on my birthday and through that 00:05:09.589 --> 00:05:14.300 hired a coach and I was so amazed at my ability 00:05:14.300 --> 00:05:17.660 to break out of old patterns and old habits within 00:05:17.660 --> 00:05:20.379 six weeks of working with this very talented 00:05:20.379 --> 00:05:24.199 coach. And it transformed every relationship, 00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:28.160 my leadership, my parenting as a spouse. There's 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:30.759 not one relationship that wasn't positively impacted 00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:34.240 by that journey. And so as I saw myself get out 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:37.019 of, I don't know if it was. actual burnout, but 00:05:37.019 --> 00:05:39.379 it was at least exhaustion and overwhelm, which 00:05:39.379 --> 00:05:42.139 was the first 20 years of my career. And working 00:05:42.139 --> 00:05:44.600 with my coach, I was able to get out of that 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:48.449 and realize that I have more more choices than 00:05:48.449 --> 00:05:50.689 I thought. And I got out of this victim mode, 00:05:50.730 --> 00:05:53.490 oh, poor me, I work so hard into, well, if you 00:05:53.490 --> 00:05:55.310 don't like your outcome, then make a different 00:05:55.310 --> 00:05:57.970 choice and get a different outcome. And that 00:05:57.970 --> 00:06:01.350 just became this new pattern. And I saw how powerful 00:06:01.350 --> 00:06:03.350 it was in my life. It got me through a breast 00:06:03.350 --> 00:06:05.990 cancer diagnosis, working with my coach. I lost 00:06:05.990 --> 00:06:08.509 both of my parents within five weeks, early in 00:06:08.509 --> 00:06:11.310 2020, working with her helped me with that. So 00:06:11.310 --> 00:06:16.100 that really inspired me to say, well, if I got 00:06:16.100 --> 00:06:19.060 this much benefit as a physician, what if I became 00:06:19.060 --> 00:06:21.959 a coach and I helped other individuals in medicine? 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:24.759 And so I got certified in one and then a second 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:27.600 and then a third coaching certificate and began 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:31.129 coaching. After 10 years working in child abuse 00:06:31.129 --> 00:06:34.389 medicine, it was a lot of trauma exposure. And 00:06:34.389 --> 00:06:36.629 I'd cut back to part time. And I thought, you 00:06:36.629 --> 00:06:38.709 know what? I can do as much good in medicine 00:06:38.709 --> 00:06:42.629 by helping women have a more sustainable, joyful 00:06:42.629 --> 00:06:46.170 career and empowering them to make better choices 00:06:46.170 --> 00:06:48.819 so that they're not feeling trapped by their 00:06:48.819 --> 00:06:52.540 work in medicine. And so I decided to pivot from 00:06:52.540 --> 00:06:55.420 practicing medicine to helping individuals who 00:06:55.420 --> 00:06:57.879 are practicing medicine to have healthier, more 00:06:57.879 --> 00:07:01.379 sustainable careers. Well, as a future physician, 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:07.279 it's very inspiring to hear just the your journey 00:07:07.279 --> 00:07:10.519 as well as how much you're working to help other 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:14.920 women in medicine. So kind of transferring over 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:17.879 to more of your personal experience, the balance 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:21.720 between a physician and a parent can be incredibly 00:07:21.720 --> 00:07:26.839 complex. How did your experience in medicine 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:30.180 shape your approach to parenting? And what conversations 00:07:30.180 --> 00:07:32.579 do you think you need to have more openly about 00:07:32.579 --> 00:07:37.379 that intersection? Yeah, that's a big... one 00:07:37.379 --> 00:07:39.379 of my big motivators for why I'm doing what I'm 00:07:39.379 --> 00:07:41.100 doing. And I bring up parenting, whether it's 00:07:41.100 --> 00:07:43.720 on my own podcast or when I'm coaching my clients, 00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:48.160 I do a lot of parent coaching. And one of the 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:50.600 things I didn't realize, I assumed I was going 00:07:50.600 --> 00:07:53.199 to be an amazing mom because I was not only a 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:56.540 doctor, I was a pediatrician. And so what better 00:07:56.540 --> 00:08:01.829 match? I knew like the mechanics, but nobody 00:08:01.829 --> 00:08:04.569 taught me about setting appropriate boundaries, 00:08:05.110 --> 00:08:08.430 about what it took to become fully present at 00:08:08.430 --> 00:08:11.129 home when your kids need you. And you've already 00:08:11.129 --> 00:08:13.430 spent all of your time and energy at the office. 00:08:13.449 --> 00:08:15.610 And by the time you get home, you have nothing 00:08:15.610 --> 00:08:20.649 left. And so for me, I was very career focused. 00:08:20.990 --> 00:08:24.370 I had leadership roles at each of the three organizations 00:08:24.370 --> 00:08:27.540 I worked. for very early on, I was asked to do 00:08:27.540 --> 00:08:30.620 leadership. And one, when I had a set of twins 00:08:30.620 --> 00:08:35.419 and a third child, and they were all under the 00:08:35.419 --> 00:08:39.049 age of three or four. And I still said yes to 00:08:39.049 --> 00:08:40.929 a big leadership program. I still said yes to 00:08:40.929 --> 00:08:43.730 helping build a brand new clinic. And I had no 00:08:43.730 --> 00:08:46.129 business saying yes to those things, even if 00:08:46.129 --> 00:08:49.450 I was maybe the right fit for those. So in hindsight, 00:08:49.509 --> 00:08:51.750 I realized there's something called paying attention 00:08:51.750 --> 00:08:54.710 to their seasons of your life. And sometimes 00:08:54.710 --> 00:08:58.610 you might be the best person for an opportunity, 00:08:58.669 --> 00:09:01.549 but it's not the right season. And so really 00:09:01.549 --> 00:09:04.529 paying attention to what's the timing in your 00:09:04.529 --> 00:09:07.610 life and not having that fear. of missing out, 00:09:07.769 --> 00:09:10.250 not feeling obligated that if I'm the best one, 00:09:10.309 --> 00:09:12.830 I should do it. So one of my coaches is fond 00:09:12.830 --> 00:09:15.750 of saying, just because you can, doesn't mean 00:09:15.750 --> 00:09:20.509 you should. So as a parent, I realized that even 00:09:20.509 --> 00:09:24.159 my kids were pre -teens and teens. And then I 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:25.919 made a commitment to them. And I remember, I 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:28.139 remember tigger pouncing my daughter and looking 00:09:28.139 --> 00:09:30.740 her in the eyes and one time saying like, I might 00:09:30.740 --> 00:09:33.460 have messed up the first 14 years of your life, 00:09:33.899 --> 00:09:36.120 but I promise you like these next four years, 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:40.179 you're at home. I will make these the best. And 00:09:40.179 --> 00:09:43.840 it has really been a powerful turnaround in my 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:46.919 relationship. And so as I have created my coaching 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:50.379 practice, I'm working really hard to not fall 00:09:50.379 --> 00:09:53.100 into those old habits that I had early on in 00:09:53.100 --> 00:09:55.580 my medical career and making sure that I have 00:09:55.580 --> 00:09:58.419 capacity, not only for my kids, but for my husband, 00:09:58.860 --> 00:10:01.179 who has we've been together for 28 years, married 00:10:01.179 --> 00:10:04.700 for 25, and he was ignored for decades sometimes. 00:10:04.700 --> 00:10:07.649 And so I'm just so grateful that that my family 00:10:07.649 --> 00:10:10.850 has stuck around and that I have had a bit of 00:10:10.850 --> 00:10:14.830 a second chance to do it better and to learn 00:10:14.830 --> 00:10:19.950 and. and honestly to be open to feedback. I interviewed 00:10:19.950 --> 00:10:23.230 my own son a couple months ago. He's a 22 year 00:10:23.230 --> 00:10:26.190 old, a medic in the army. And I just said, what 00:10:26.190 --> 00:10:28.070 was it like growing up with me as a mom, with 00:10:28.070 --> 00:10:30.590 your dad as a firefighter dad? And we were really 00:10:30.590 --> 00:10:33.649 busy and we had really hard jobs. And one of 00:10:33.649 --> 00:10:36.470 the things he said that he noticed is that this 00:10:36.470 --> 00:10:38.990 disconnection, because we were so spent by the 00:10:38.990 --> 00:10:42.789 time we got home. And I don't want that for other. 00:10:42.990 --> 00:10:45.009 women in medicine. I don't want that for other 00:10:45.009 --> 00:10:47.669 physician moms. And so I might learn from my 00:10:47.669 --> 00:10:51.970 example. And I coach my clients to help them 00:10:51.970 --> 00:10:54.129 find better balance and set better boundaries 00:10:54.129 --> 00:10:56.289 so they can show up as an amazing physician, 00:10:56.769 --> 00:10:59.409 not impacting their quality, and also an amazing 00:10:59.409 --> 00:11:03.320 parent, which is possible. Thank you for sharing 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:07.080 that. I think a lot of women getting into medicine 00:11:07.080 --> 00:11:10.220 and women in medicine kind of have this debate 00:11:10.220 --> 00:11:13.139 in their head. How can you do both? You hear 00:11:13.139 --> 00:11:17.519 from so many physicians as well about how challenging 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:20.600 it is to manage both of these roles but still 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:23.820 want to show up as your best self. in both places. 00:11:24.220 --> 00:11:27.059 Also being willing to take on those leadership 00:11:27.059 --> 00:11:29.960 roles and not necessarily wanting to miss out 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:35.039 on professional growth. So how do you kind of 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:39.720 work with physicians who are trying to have it 00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:43.320 all in a sense? Yeah, and I have been one of 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:46.419 those individuals and sometimes you can't have 00:11:46.419 --> 00:11:49.570 it all. or you have to recognize if I'm going 00:11:49.570 --> 00:11:52.230 to put my energy into all of these different 00:11:52.230 --> 00:11:55.529 areas, then you're going to have compromise. 00:11:55.769 --> 00:11:58.190 There's a book that I love to quote called Essentialism 00:11:58.190 --> 00:12:01.009 by Greg McCown. And he says, there are way too 00:12:01.009 --> 00:12:04.730 many good yeses out there. Save your yeses for 00:12:04.730 --> 00:12:08.889 the exceptional. opportunities. And he said he 00:12:08.889 --> 00:12:10.889 has a follow up book, I don't remember the title 00:12:10.889 --> 00:12:13.649 of it. But in that book, he says, I'm the author 00:12:13.649 --> 00:12:16.049 of essentialism, where I teach people to say 00:12:16.049 --> 00:12:19.809 no to good opportunities. He says, and sometimes 00:12:19.809 --> 00:12:22.269 even the exceptional opportunities, there's too 00:12:22.269 --> 00:12:25.629 many, and we have to really triage those and 00:12:25.629 --> 00:12:29.190 figure out what we can and can't do. And recognizing 00:12:29.190 --> 00:12:33.570 that there's not one right choice. There's not 00:12:33.570 --> 00:12:37.580 one right answer. And I also recommend, if you 00:12:37.580 --> 00:12:40.899 make a choice and it's not a great fit, then 00:12:40.899 --> 00:12:43.980 pivot. And if you can't figure it out, get help. 00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:46.659 Because I think a lot of women in medicine, we 00:12:46.659 --> 00:12:50.559 are so smart, so independent, so determined, 00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:54.039 sometimes stubborn. Again, I'm talking about 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:59.320 myself here. And we don't lean into asking help. 00:12:59.580 --> 00:13:03.679 asking for help and that or advice or input. 00:13:03.779 --> 00:13:06.720 And we do need to learn to trust our own gut 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:08.919 intuition, right? When we know something's right 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:12.559 or wrong for us. And yet we, you know, I coach 00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:14.559 a lot of women and they have the financial means 00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:16.679 to get help and they've never gotten help with 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:19.200 their landscaping, with their shopping, with 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:22.419 their childcare, with their housekeeping. And 00:13:22.419 --> 00:13:25.990 I'm like, I call it buying sanity, right? Like 00:13:25.990 --> 00:13:28.110 lean into getting help and ask for help early 00:13:28.110 --> 00:13:31.350 and often. And that can sometimes take the burden 00:13:31.350 --> 00:13:35.490 off of what you're doing. So you can really lean 00:13:35.490 --> 00:13:37.549 into the stuff that's really important, that 00:13:37.549 --> 00:13:39.750 really needs your attention, like your relationships. 00:13:41.070 --> 00:13:43.169 So building off of that, so many in healthcare 00:13:43.169 --> 00:13:47.250 are experiencing burnout, exhaustion, and compassion 00:13:47.250 --> 00:13:50.570 fatigue, we like to call it. What practices or 00:13:50.570 --> 00:13:54.539 mindset mindset shifts, do you find most essential 00:13:54.539 --> 00:13:57.779 for protecting our physical, mental, and emotional 00:13:57.779 --> 00:14:03.340 health as providers? We have to do something 00:14:03.340 --> 00:14:06.200 for ourselves because otherwise you're going 00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:08.919 to guarantee burnout. The work in medicine, whether 00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:11.399 you're a student, a resident, or an attending 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:16.139 physician is demanding. And I didn't learn that 00:14:16.139 --> 00:14:20.649 until two decades in. and I wish I had had practices. 00:14:21.409 --> 00:14:24.309 So some of the things that you can do are simple, 00:14:24.590 --> 00:14:27.350 but for me, meditation, some kind of meditative 00:14:27.350 --> 00:14:30.370 practice, and I started with 12 minutes a day 00:14:30.370 --> 00:14:33.750 on my Calm app, super easy. I now do it in bed 00:14:33.750 --> 00:14:36.720 instead of snoozing before I get up. So then 00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:38.860 it's kind of a guarantee. You are going to have 00:14:38.860 --> 00:14:41.620 12 or 20 minutes of meditation every day. So 00:14:41.620 --> 00:14:44.200 you're starting the day off. So I don't know 00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:47.200 what everyone's schedule is. It's always different, 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:51.840 but we have time to add tiny little increments 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:56.700 of, of well -being practices into our day, whether 00:14:56.700 --> 00:15:00.000 that's getting up 10 minutes early, sitting outside 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:03.240 and really enjoying your cup of coffee or tea, 00:15:03.539 --> 00:15:07.470 whether that's taking You know, five, three minute 00:15:07.470 --> 00:15:09.830 breaks throughout your day to close your eyes, 00:15:09.870 --> 00:15:15.250 get off a screen, meditate quietly, moving our 00:15:15.250 --> 00:15:19.690 bodies. And we not only are working really hard, 00:15:19.809 --> 00:15:21.870 but in medicine, you're going to be exposed to 00:15:21.870 --> 00:15:26.049 trauma. And as a trauma -informed coach and physician, 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:29.379 I've recognized how important all of these things 00:15:29.379 --> 00:15:32.059 are and how important movement is. And think 00:15:32.059 --> 00:15:35.559 about how much time we spend sitting and studying 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:39.200 or in a classroom if you're a student and standing 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:42.179 in the OR or sitting in clinic or sitting in 00:15:42.179 --> 00:15:45.220 front of a screen. And our bodies are not meant 00:15:45.220 --> 00:15:47.779 for that. And so again, what kind of practice 00:15:47.779 --> 00:15:50.860 can you get into where you intentionally move 00:15:50.860 --> 00:15:52.700 your body? It doesn't mean go to the gym for 00:15:52.700 --> 00:15:55.679 an hour a day. That may not happen. But can you 00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:57.919 get out for a five minute walk? Can you take 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:00.440 the stairs or take a burst and run up the stairs 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:03.519 so that you can shift your energy and really 00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:08.080 help get better balance in your life? I call 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:11.120 it, what's the recipe that you need? And if you're 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:13.679 a student, a resident, and even as an attending, 00:16:13.700 --> 00:16:17.320 you may not have a lot of what feels like control, 00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:19.679 but it's like, what do you have control over? 00:16:19.779 --> 00:16:22.440 What are the little increments of time? And then 00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:26.139 pour into that. So instead of looking at a phone 00:16:26.139 --> 00:16:29.100 screen and scrolling social media, not really 00:16:29.100 --> 00:16:32.080 helpful. I ask you to do a screen and you say, 00:16:32.299 --> 00:16:35.179 what is good for me now in the moment and good 00:16:35.179 --> 00:16:39.200 for future me? So good for me now and good for 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:40.879 future me might be, I'm going to take a five 00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:42.759 minute walk instead of scrolling social media 00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:45.200 for five minutes. I'm going to call my best friend. 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:48.139 I'm going to send a voice text to my mom, whatever 00:16:48.139 --> 00:16:51.399 that is. So asking that again, some things feel 00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:54.159 good in the moment, but they're not good for 00:16:54.159 --> 00:16:56.120 future you. So really paying attention to that. 00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:59.279 And then we can pack a lot of goodness into one 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:02.299 five minute walk, get away from a screen. Get 00:17:02.299 --> 00:17:05.039 outside, you move your body, invite a friend. 00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:07.500 Now you're socializing and you can get four or 00:17:07.500 --> 00:17:10.680 five positive things into one tiny five -minute 00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:14.359 investment. Really simple. And I love that you 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:18.000 provided these examples of small incremental 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:20.619 changes that you can make. A lot of the time 00:17:20.619 --> 00:17:24.519 I think we are so inundated with you need to 00:17:24.519 --> 00:17:28.220 have 60 minutes of exercise or do all of these 00:17:28.220 --> 00:17:31.740 large scale changes, which are not always possible 00:17:31.740 --> 00:17:35.339 in everyone's schedule. So taking those small 00:17:35.339 --> 00:17:39.519 times that are more manageable, more quantifiable 00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:43.220 in a sense. um, is almost easier for people to 00:17:43.220 --> 00:17:46.619 be able to implement. Yeah. And we can overcomplicate 00:17:46.619 --> 00:17:49.819 things in medicine. So two pieces along that. 00:17:49.819 --> 00:17:51.940 So if you take enough pennies and put them in 00:17:51.940 --> 00:17:54.200 the bank every day, eventually you'll get to 00:17:54.200 --> 00:17:56.619 a million dollars. So remember that each of those 00:17:56.619 --> 00:18:00.019 little five minute increments of self -care are 00:18:00.019 --> 00:18:03.140 adding money into your wellbeing bank in the 00:18:03.140 --> 00:18:05.900 future. And it can be tiny little bits. It doesn't 00:18:05.900 --> 00:18:08.839 have to be a hundred dollars at a time. And the 00:18:08.839 --> 00:18:11.690 other thing is Don't overcomplicate it. So I 00:18:11.690 --> 00:18:14.150 talk about, you know, if your goal is, oh, I 00:18:14.150 --> 00:18:16.650 want to do the high jump and it's six feet in 00:18:16.650 --> 00:18:19.069 the air. That's really hard to do. So I tell 00:18:19.069 --> 00:18:21.650 my clients, you take the bar, you put it on the 00:18:21.650 --> 00:18:23.769 ground. It's on the ground and you just step 00:18:23.769 --> 00:18:27.049 over it. That's how easy that getting started 00:18:27.049 --> 00:18:30.609 can be. So it's not overwhelming. And when you 00:18:30.609 --> 00:18:32.869 do that super easy thing, five minutes a day, 00:18:32.890 --> 00:18:35.269 can everybody find five minutes a day? Probably 00:18:35.269 --> 00:18:38.069 just start with that. And then you can start 00:18:38.069 --> 00:18:41.450 adding to it. But we make it super easy. So it's 00:18:41.450 --> 00:18:43.609 not going to make us shy away. We're not going 00:18:43.609 --> 00:18:47.069 to want to quit. And then we do it long enough, 00:18:47.210 --> 00:18:49.089 like those pennies in the bank, and then we get 00:18:49.089 --> 00:18:52.579 the benefit. Well, thank you so much for sharing 00:18:52.579 --> 00:18:55.900 that. You had started talking about trauma and 00:18:55.900 --> 00:18:57.740 I kind of want to come back to that a little 00:18:57.740 --> 00:19:01.119 bit. So you've talked about the impact of trauma 00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:03.720 and not only for patients, but also on the healthcare 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:06.880 team. What are some of the ways trauma shows 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:09.700 up in medical environments and how can we better 00:19:09.700 --> 00:19:12.880 support both patients and providers in healing 00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:16.880 from it? The first place I always like people 00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:19.680 to start is awareness. If you're not aware of 00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:22.380 trauma, a good place to start, if you're a medical 00:19:22.380 --> 00:19:25.440 student, a resident, or a physician, is with 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:28.440 the ACEs study by Dr. Vince Felitti. It came 00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:33.339 out in 1998, I believe. And it's very groundbreaking 00:19:33.339 --> 00:19:37.640 in talks about the ACE stands for Adverse Childhood 00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:41.960 Experiences. And what it shared is that negative 00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:45.730 things are adverse experiences as a child can 00:19:45.730 --> 00:19:48.049 negatively impact us with our mental health, 00:19:48.390 --> 00:19:51.569 our physical health, and our behaviors. And so 00:19:51.569 --> 00:19:56.029 if we are not aware that events in our patients 00:19:56.029 --> 00:19:59.970 or our own lives or our family's lives can have 00:19:59.970 --> 00:20:02.329 an impact on us as adults, we're going to be 00:20:02.329 --> 00:20:05.890 missing an entire part of the equation. And so 00:20:05.890 --> 00:20:08.049 raising your awareness if you're not aware of 00:20:08.049 --> 00:20:10.779 trauma. I would encourage that you start with 00:20:10.779 --> 00:20:13.779 that study. There's also a book called The Body 00:20:13.779 --> 00:20:16.279 Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk. And I 00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:19.700 had the honor of going to Oxford, England in 00:20:19.700 --> 00:20:22.440 September and listening to him teach in person. 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:24.700 And it was incredible three -day trauma conference. 00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:30.559 And it really is about trauma can wire our brains. 00:20:30.970 --> 00:20:34.150 in different manners. So a child who was exposed 00:20:34.150 --> 00:20:36.910 to, let's say, a violent environment in their 00:20:36.910 --> 00:20:40.329 home, the wiring of their brain circuitry is 00:20:40.329 --> 00:20:45.150 different than a child because our brains were 00:20:45.150 --> 00:20:49.269 created millennia ago in order to be in survival. 00:20:49.490 --> 00:20:52.670 We need to survive to the next generation. And 00:20:52.670 --> 00:20:55.569 so it takes much different skills, much different 00:20:55.569 --> 00:20:58.769 brain wiring. If you grow up in a violent or 00:20:58.769 --> 00:21:02.519 an unsafe environment, versus a safe and calm 00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:06.480 environment. And so when we can look beyond what's 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:09.059 that behavior in front of us and say, I wonder 00:21:09.059 --> 00:21:12.420 what's the trigger behind that behavior, whether 00:21:12.420 --> 00:21:14.660 it's someone who can't keep the weight off, the 00:21:14.660 --> 00:21:16.680 person who can never make it to the clinic on 00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:19.680 time, really having an understanding and asking, 00:21:19.940 --> 00:21:23.380 I wonder, and there are questionnaires. So some 00:21:23.380 --> 00:21:26.660 clinics will ask about a patient's ACEs study 00:21:26.660 --> 00:21:29.599 or ACEs score. You can look up your own ACEs 00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:32.660 score by what's my ACEs going on a Google search 00:21:32.660 --> 00:21:35.240 and at that, because it's important for us to 00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:38.940 recognize we might have triggers as medical students, 00:21:39.099 --> 00:21:41.960 as residents, as physicians. And if we're not 00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:44.339 aware of our own triggers, something that may 00:21:44.339 --> 00:21:47.539 be mundane for someone who hasn't been exposed 00:21:47.539 --> 00:21:51.220 to a unique trauma, for me, let's say, they're 00:21:51.220 --> 00:21:53.259 going to have no idea why do you always freak 00:21:53.259 --> 00:21:55.480 out every time this thing happens? Why do you 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:58.200 feel unsafe? And it may have something I might 00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:00.940 not even remember that happened in my childhood, 00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:05.980 maybe even preverbal. So trauma is just, it's 00:22:05.980 --> 00:22:07.900 impossible for me to look at anything without 00:22:07.900 --> 00:22:10.700 my trauma lens because I worked in child abuse 00:22:10.700 --> 00:22:14.299 medicine for 10 years. I dealt with families 00:22:14.299 --> 00:22:17.119 in really difficult circumstances and I learned 00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:20.259 so much. It was such a gift to me. And so that 00:22:20.259 --> 00:22:22.299 when I'm meeting with clients or when I'm meeting 00:22:22.299 --> 00:22:25.099 with family members or dealing with my own issues, 00:22:25.099 --> 00:22:28.660 it helps me have a better understanding and dig 00:22:28.660 --> 00:22:32.390 behind what's in front of us that behavior and 00:22:32.390 --> 00:22:35.430 get curious about, I wonder what's behind that. 00:22:36.210 --> 00:22:39.210 Well, thank you so much for sharing that. You 00:22:39.210 --> 00:22:42.329 have walked such an inspiring path, one that 00:22:42.329 --> 00:22:46.130 many listeners may relate to or aspire to follow. 00:22:46.630 --> 00:22:49.569 What advice would you give to current or future 00:22:49.569 --> 00:22:52.009 physicians who are struggling to find balance, 00:22:52.170 --> 00:22:57.309 purpose, or healing in their own ways? Find a 00:22:57.309 --> 00:23:00.950 good community. for me, learn from my lesson. 00:23:01.009 --> 00:23:03.609 When I started practicing medicine, I had a great 00:23:03.609 --> 00:23:05.930 set of friends in medical school and residency. 00:23:06.069 --> 00:23:08.970 I look back on those times with such fond memories. 00:23:09.529 --> 00:23:11.609 And then when I began practicing medicine, got 00:23:11.609 --> 00:23:14.730 married, started a family, then my focus, it 00:23:14.730 --> 00:23:18.430 seemed like I only had room for work and my family. 00:23:18.849 --> 00:23:21.309 And what I was missing out as my time with my 00:23:21.309 --> 00:23:23.819 girlfriends. for close to 20 years. And when 00:23:23.819 --> 00:23:26.420 I started working with my coach, she challenged 00:23:26.420 --> 00:23:28.319 me and she's like, Erin, where are your girlfriends? 00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:30.900 I have friends, but I just don't make time for 00:23:30.900 --> 00:23:34.680 them. And so she encouraged that. And that is 00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:37.640 now a non -negotiable that I have my girlfriends 00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:40.819 who are different relationships with me, my spouse, 00:23:40.940 --> 00:23:44.619 then my kids, then my sisters. Um, and so that 00:23:44.619 --> 00:23:47.740 for me is a really strong community, that network 00:23:47.740 --> 00:23:50.539 that can help pick me up. when I'm struggling, 00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:53.700 that I can ask for help, that I can ask for input. 00:23:54.680 --> 00:23:57.339 And so don't isolate yourself even when you're 00:23:57.339 --> 00:24:01.009 really busy. really stay connected. And I've 00:24:01.009 --> 00:24:03.289 seen great examples from some of my coaching 00:24:03.289 --> 00:24:05.470 clients that are so good at staying connected 00:24:05.470 --> 00:24:08.349 with their friends. And they've had a much different 00:24:08.349 --> 00:24:13.329 path in their studies and as an attending physician 00:24:13.329 --> 00:24:16.650 because they have done such a good job at fostering 00:24:16.650 --> 00:24:19.450 those relationships, including those outside 00:24:19.450 --> 00:24:24.650 of medicine. Well, thank you so much for coming 00:24:24.650 --> 00:24:27.630 on our podcast and for talking to us and sharing 00:24:27.630 --> 00:24:31.049 your experiences. That's a wrap on this episode 00:24:31.049 --> 00:24:34.329 of Our Voices, Our Future. We hope today's conversation 00:24:34.329 --> 00:24:37.309 inspired you, challenged you, and reminded you 00:24:37.309 --> 00:24:39.869 of the power of raising your voice. The fight 00:24:39.869 --> 00:24:42.490 for equity doesn't stop here. Join us in the 00:24:42.490 --> 00:24:45.170 movement. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. 00:24:45.250 --> 00:24:47.930 And if you love this episode, share it with someone 00:24:47.930 --> 00:24:51.430 who needs to hear it. Until next time, stay bo— 00:24:51.150 --> 00:24:54.289 Be bold, stay vocal, and keep the conversation 00:24:54.289 --> 00:24:57.150 going. This is our voices, our future.