WEBVTT 00:00:21.919 --> 00:00:24.699 Welcome to Our Voices Our Future, the podcast 00:00:24.699 --> 00:00:27.320 where we amplify the voices driving change and 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:29.980 equity within medicine and beyond. Brought to 00:00:29.980 --> 00:00:32.159 you by the Gender Equity Task Force, a committee 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:34.340 of the American Medical Women's Association. 00:00:34.700 --> 00:00:37.280 We're here to challenge norms, break barriers 00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:40.600 and ignite conversations that matter. I'm Rhea 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:44.000 Manohar and in each episode we'll bring you candid 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:47.799 discussions with leaders, change makers and advocates 00:00:47.799 --> 00:00:50.960 working to create a more inclusive and just world. 00:00:51.179 --> 00:00:55.659 No more silence. No more waiting. We are listening 00:00:55.659 --> 00:00:59.500 to our voices, our future. Let's get into it. 00:01:00.179 --> 00:01:04.290 Today we are welcoming Dr. Ilana Zago. Dr. Zago 00:01:04.290 --> 00:01:07.609 is a second -year plastic surgery resident at 00:01:07.609 --> 00:01:10.209 Loma Linda University. She grew up in Southern 00:01:10.209 --> 00:01:13.430 California and attended UC Santa Barbara for 00:01:13.430 --> 00:01:16.030 her undergraduate degree. She worked as a health 00:01:16.030 --> 00:01:18.709 educator in a medically supervised weight management 00:01:18.709 --> 00:01:21.790 program prior to attending the Burnett School 00:01:21.790 --> 00:01:24.790 of Medicine at TCU in Texas for medical school. 00:01:25.340 --> 00:01:28.299 She then matched into the integrated plastic 00:01:28.299 --> 00:01:32.000 surgery program at Loa Linda University. Well, 00:01:32.019 --> 00:01:34.140 thank you so much for being with us here today. 00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:37.540 Yes, thank you so much for having me. This is 00:01:37.540 --> 00:01:40.879 such an honor. So with that, I'm going to go 00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:43.739 ahead and jump in. Can you start by sharing a 00:01:43.739 --> 00:01:45.819 little bit about your background and what inspired 00:01:45.819 --> 00:01:50.189 you to pursue a career in surgery? Yeah, I would 00:01:50.189 --> 00:01:52.810 love to so I grew up in Southern, California 00:01:52.810 --> 00:01:55.969 And I actually I didn't have any doctors or people 00:01:55.969 --> 00:01:59.469 in the medical field of my family And as I'm 00:01:59.469 --> 00:02:02.810 sure many can probably relate to I Decided during 00:02:02.810 --> 00:02:05.590 my ninth grade biology class one day that I was 00:02:05.590 --> 00:02:07.390 gonna be a doctor and like that was pretty much 00:02:07.390 --> 00:02:11.590 it And then I didn't officially though make the 00:02:11.590 --> 00:02:15.330 decision to pursue Surgery until my second year 00:02:15.330 --> 00:02:19.669 of medical school and I think looking back the 00:02:19.669 --> 00:02:23.469 seed had been planted years before, but I actually 00:02:23.469 --> 00:02:26.189 think that I was just scared to commit to a surgical 00:02:26.189 --> 00:02:28.729 specialty because I didn't know any women in 00:02:28.729 --> 00:02:30.969 surgery. I didn't know if it was possible to 00:02:30.969 --> 00:02:33.509 have a family. I feel like growing up, I was 00:02:33.509 --> 00:02:36.330 kind of told like dermatology was thrown out 00:02:36.330 --> 00:02:39.569 so many times to go into, and I just lacked that 00:02:39.569 --> 00:02:42.430 kind of representation. We can chat more about 00:02:42.430 --> 00:02:45.889 how important that is later. But during my second 00:02:45.889 --> 00:02:48.210 year of medical school, so I I left California, 00:02:48.330 --> 00:02:50.810 I went to Texas for med school, and we started 00:02:50.810 --> 00:02:53.210 clinicals at the beginning of our second year. 00:02:53.770 --> 00:02:59.750 And so at that time, I decided to observe a breast 00:02:59.750 --> 00:03:02.610 recon case, and it was a female plastic surgeon, 00:03:02.729 --> 00:03:05.449 which was awesome. And that was pretty much it. 00:03:06.110 --> 00:03:08.330 So when I decided surgery, I decided plastics 00:03:08.330 --> 00:03:11.389 at the same time. So it just felt. like a soul 00:03:11.389 --> 00:03:15.050 connection for me. I have a creative background. 00:03:15.069 --> 00:03:17.789 I think that definitely contributed to my decision. 00:03:18.289 --> 00:03:21.009 I love being able to help patients shape their 00:03:21.009 --> 00:03:24.050 identities. I love the attention to detail. I 00:03:24.050 --> 00:03:25.490 mean, I could go on about why it's the best specialty, 00:03:25.610 --> 00:03:28.129 but to speak about surgery in general, I just, 00:03:28.530 --> 00:03:30.030 there's something to be said about being in the 00:03:30.030 --> 00:03:33.830 OR. I was in the OR all day today and it's just, 00:03:34.409 --> 00:03:36.409 the world just stands still and it's so amazing 00:03:36.409 --> 00:03:38.310 and you're working with your hands, you're doing 00:03:38.310 --> 00:03:40.939 something tangible for the patient. it's truly 00:03:40.939 --> 00:03:43.819 just incredible. So I'm really happy I kind of 00:03:43.819 --> 00:03:47.020 pushed past not having the representation. I 00:03:47.020 --> 00:03:49.340 have now found the representation, which is amazing. 00:03:49.919 --> 00:03:52.120 But yeah, that's a little bit about my background 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:56.020 and why I decided surgery. Thanks so much for 00:03:56.020 --> 00:03:58.500 kind of walking us through that journey. I actually 00:03:58.500 --> 00:04:01.879 do want to talk a little bit about what you shared 00:04:01.879 --> 00:04:05.439 about not having that mentor and representation. 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:08.800 Kind of talk me through, what did that mean for 00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:12.780 you? How did you find it? Yeah, yeah, I'd love 00:04:12.780 --> 00:04:15.960 to talk more about that. I think, so when I made 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:21.220 the decision to pursue plastic surgery at that 00:04:21.220 --> 00:04:26.540 time, I had a male mentor who was just absolutely 00:04:26.540 --> 00:04:29.180 incredible. I mean, I wouldn't be here if it 00:04:29.180 --> 00:04:33.120 wasn't for him. But I knew that I needed to find 00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:37.939 not only women in surgery, but women in surgery 00:04:37.939 --> 00:04:42.620 that also had the kind of life and were living 00:04:42.620 --> 00:04:45.779 the future that I could see for myself. Because 00:04:45.779 --> 00:04:49.500 I think it's not just enough to be surrounded 00:04:49.500 --> 00:04:53.959 by the women, the plastic surgeons, but ones 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:56.800 that also, I want a family. So ones that had 00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:59.180 a family and were also plastic surgeons, ones 00:04:59.180 --> 00:05:01.439 that had a partner and were also plastic surgeons, 00:05:02.540 --> 00:05:05.439 ones that were happy and also plastic surgeons. 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:07.779 So I think that's super important because then 00:05:07.779 --> 00:05:10.899 you can see yourself in them. And I think that 00:05:10.899 --> 00:05:15.680 goes for anyone looking for mentorship. It's 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:18.009 really important to kind of... you want to be 00:05:18.009 --> 00:05:20.870 able to see yourself in them and see yourself 00:05:20.870 --> 00:05:23.310 in the specialty that you're going into, otherwise 00:05:23.310 --> 00:05:25.470 you're just going to be dissuaded from doing 00:05:25.470 --> 00:05:29.990 that. I mean, if nobody looks like you in the 00:05:29.990 --> 00:05:32.050 field, then why would you feel like you're welcomed 00:05:32.050 --> 00:05:35.230 in that space? So hopefully that kind of answers 00:05:35.230 --> 00:05:37.970 that question a little bit of why it's important. 00:05:38.659 --> 00:05:41.660 I think that's something that a lot of students 00:05:41.660 --> 00:05:44.379 experience throughout their medical journey of 00:05:44.379 --> 00:05:47.680 both hearing from other physicians as well as 00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:51.399 other students, maybe even family members about, 00:05:52.819 --> 00:05:55.339 specifically, I think women get this, that you 00:05:55.339 --> 00:05:58.480 won't be able to pursue a family. It's not conducive 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:01.399 to your lifestyle. How do you think that that 00:06:01.399 --> 00:06:04.720 affects students who are looking into pursuing 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:08.139 more challenging specialties? Yeah, I mean it 00:06:08.139 --> 00:06:10.560 almost affected me so I can I can definitely 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:16.860 see how that can can get to you and I Will say 00:06:16.860 --> 00:06:19.800 it's not that it's not challenging because it 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:25.079 is but it's possible and I think that that's 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:29.519 Key is it's not nothing's going to be easy When 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:32.100 you're doing surgery, I think it's the nature 00:06:32.100 --> 00:06:36.019 of the specialty too, but it's definitely it's 00:06:36.019 --> 00:06:41.110 definitely possible. And I think again, when 00:06:41.110 --> 00:06:44.889 you see people that are succeeding and doing 00:06:44.889 --> 00:06:47.750 amazing things, and they also have a family, 00:06:48.009 --> 00:06:52.490 it shows you, okay, I can do this too. And I 00:06:52.490 --> 00:06:56.550 remember, I was in one meeting during medical 00:06:56.550 --> 00:07:01.689 school and a female surgeon was sharing how something 00:07:01.689 --> 00:07:04.949 just sometimes has to give and time is money. 00:07:04.970 --> 00:07:08.779 And so you you can choose to have people support 00:07:08.779 --> 00:07:11.360 you and things like that to clear up other areas 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:13.759 in your life so you can be present with your 00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:17.000 family when you when you can be and then you 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:19.060 can be present in the OR when you need to be 00:07:19.060 --> 00:07:21.800 as well. So choosing where you put your energy 00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:25.040 I think is also important. Now I think that's 00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:30.060 so important that you shared that piece. Kind 00:07:30.060 --> 00:07:33.740 of going along with that What strategies have 00:07:33.740 --> 00:07:36.399 you found effective, or I know you're just starting 00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:40.379 out, or have others shared with you, about achieving 00:07:40.379 --> 00:07:43.019 work -life integration between your professional 00:07:43.019 --> 00:07:47.639 responsibilities and personal life? Yeah, I definitely 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:51.439 wouldn't say I have this figured out just yet, 00:07:51.939 --> 00:07:55.720 especially this year of residency. It's been 00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:59.019 challenging. I think, like I said, something 00:07:59.019 --> 00:08:03.519 kind of has to give. I've found I'm not capable 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:08.379 of doing it all, and that's okay. I think one 00:08:08.379 --> 00:08:11.740 day I might prioritize social life and social 00:08:11.740 --> 00:08:14.540 time and being around people and having that 00:08:14.540 --> 00:08:17.600 connection, which is super important. But then 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:21.300 another day I might choose sleep over spending 00:08:21.300 --> 00:08:26.079 time with people. And I am someone that really, 00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:30.779 really prioritizes exercise. And so spending 00:08:30.779 --> 00:08:34.179 time with that, which I think helps me feel like 00:08:34.179 --> 00:08:37.220 I have this semblance of balance, and you may 00:08:37.220 --> 00:08:39.720 say integration, because balance is not, it's 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:42.879 not really ever a true balance. But I think that's 00:08:42.879 --> 00:08:46.779 important. And I think you also have every every 00:08:46.779 --> 00:08:50.679 person is different. And so I think a good sign 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:53.259 to kind of look at and see, am I achieving this 00:08:53.259 --> 00:08:56.460 work life integration as if I feel happy. And 00:08:56.460 --> 00:08:59.460 if I'm not feeling happy, then I have to look 00:08:59.460 --> 00:09:01.759 at how I'm spending my time and what do the quality 00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:04.580 of my hours look like? Do I have to take a step 00:09:04.580 --> 00:09:06.580 back from studying and maybe go on a walk? What 00:09:06.580 --> 00:09:09.519 do I have to do to fill up my cup? And so I think, 00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:12.820 again, I'm not going to sit here and pretend 00:09:12.820 --> 00:09:17.419 like I've perfected this, but I think you have 00:09:17.419 --> 00:09:20.299 to just maximize the hours that you have and 00:09:20.299 --> 00:09:23.840 you choose to spend them doing things that make 00:09:23.840 --> 00:09:27.899 you happy. And I think it's also super important 00:09:27.899 --> 00:09:31.159 to be efficient when you're in the hospital as 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:34.080 well because that'll maximize your time outside 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:37.740 of it. Definitely. I think what you shared there 00:09:37.740 --> 00:09:41.240 was really important, specifically that those 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:44.279 priorities and needs can change over time. I 00:09:44.279 --> 00:09:48.120 think a lot of people have this belief that you 00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:51.820 have to allocate this part to like a certain 00:09:51.820 --> 00:09:54.649 number of hours or These are the priorities and 00:09:54.649 --> 00:09:57.090 they can't shift and they're really ever changing. 00:09:58.070 --> 00:10:00.389 They are definitely. Yeah. At each point in your 00:10:00.389 --> 00:10:02.549 life. And I'm sure they will continue to change 00:10:02.549 --> 00:10:04.789 for me. And what's important this year might 00:10:04.789 --> 00:10:08.370 not be next year, but we adapt. We go with the 00:10:08.370 --> 00:10:12.190 flow. So kind of going into that, what have been 00:10:12.190 --> 00:10:14.870 some of the most significant hurdles you've encountered 00:10:14.870 --> 00:10:17.450 as a surgical resident and how have they shaped 00:10:17.450 --> 00:10:23.639 your journey? I think. I think the most Probably 00:10:23.639 --> 00:10:29.039 a significant hurdle thus far has just been constantly 00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:32.299 being pushed outside of your comfort zone every 00:10:32.299 --> 00:10:35.580 single day. I feel like when I think it I have 00:10:35.580 --> 00:10:39.440 it down, I'm humbly reminded that I don't and 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:42.940 I have a long way to go, which is OK. I mean, 00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:45.480 on the flip side of that, it's really cool and 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:47.679 unique that you're you're never bored. You're 00:10:47.679 --> 00:10:50.539 always learning and you're always growing. Even 00:10:50.539 --> 00:10:54.330 today. I'm better than I was when I started the 00:10:54.330 --> 00:10:57.809 day because of what I've done throughout the 00:10:57.809 --> 00:10:59.909 course of just one day, which is pretty cool 00:10:59.909 --> 00:11:01.730 and really incredible to be able to say that. 00:11:01.990 --> 00:11:05.389 And I think it's shaped who I am as a person, 00:11:05.389 --> 00:11:08.429 even outside of residency, because I feel like 00:11:08.429 --> 00:11:11.769 every time I find myself in a new, different, 00:11:12.070 --> 00:11:14.980 challenging situation, I remind myself I've been 00:11:14.980 --> 00:11:18.059 in many new, different, challenging situations. 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:22.240 I've done just fine. And so I think that's like 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:26.720 a positive that comes from that. But truly, every 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:29.940 single day I am uncomfortable. I think that's 00:11:29.940 --> 00:11:37.220 just residency. I think another hurdle is probably 00:11:37.220 --> 00:11:40.700 overcoming the exhaustion that just inevitably 00:11:40.700 --> 00:11:45.190 sets in. We work very long hours. Our call shifts 00:11:45.190 --> 00:11:49.549 are very busy. You're on your feet for pretty 00:11:49.549 --> 00:11:53.669 much every minute of the day. And so I think 00:11:53.669 --> 00:11:57.389 sometimes it's just hard to overcome that. And 00:11:57.389 --> 00:12:01.450 I think the way that it's shaped me a bit is 00:12:01.450 --> 00:12:05.149 just learning tactics. Like I write everything 00:12:05.149 --> 00:12:08.690 down and I'm not ashamed to admit that it helps 00:12:08.690 --> 00:12:11.070 me keep track of everything and not miss anything. 00:12:11.450 --> 00:12:15.029 And I wish I had amazing advice on how to combat 00:12:15.029 --> 00:12:17.769 being tired. But unfortunately, we are human 00:12:17.769 --> 00:12:21.649 and we do need to sleep. But kind of going back 00:12:21.649 --> 00:12:24.830 to what I said earlier, when you're more efficient 00:12:24.830 --> 00:12:27.789 in the hospital, you actually then have more 00:12:27.789 --> 00:12:30.690 time to sleep as well. So it does, it does pay 00:12:30.690 --> 00:12:35.029 off. And then I think the last one I'll share 00:12:35.029 --> 00:12:39.409 going off of just how busy your schedules are. 00:12:39.929 --> 00:12:42.639 I don't think I would fully prepared for the 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:45.080 number of sacrifices that you do have to make 00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:48.519 when you are a resident. Even though I am very, 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:50.799 very fortunate to live in the same state as many 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:52.980 friends and family, which I know is not the case 00:12:52.980 --> 00:12:56.899 for many residents, I still cannot see them as 00:12:56.899 --> 00:13:00.299 often as I would like. You miss out on life events, 00:13:00.419 --> 00:13:03.500 you miss out on birthdays. I was actually just 00:13:03.500 --> 00:13:06.620 missed out on Thanksgiving because I was working 00:13:06.620 --> 00:13:12.070 in the ACO. It does shape you by making you very 00:13:12.070 --> 00:13:14.450 grateful for the moments that you do get to spend 00:13:14.450 --> 00:13:17.070 with your loved ones. And so you truly learn 00:13:17.070 --> 00:13:21.090 not to take any of them for granted. You kind 00:13:21.090 --> 00:13:23.830 of talked to me about that. I know you shared 00:13:23.830 --> 00:13:27.330 that you prioritize exercise. But what other 00:13:27.330 --> 00:13:31.590 ways have you found to kind of focus in on health 00:13:31.590 --> 00:13:35.509 and wellness in such a high pressure and like 00:13:35.509 --> 00:13:39.750 mentally strenuous environment? Yeah, I think 00:13:39.750 --> 00:13:42.250 I think exercise is super important because it 00:13:42.250 --> 00:13:46.149 actually builds mental strength as well as physical 00:13:46.149 --> 00:13:48.929 fitness, which I always joke that surgeons are 00:13:48.929 --> 00:13:52.789 athletes. Truly like we are we are on our feet. 00:13:52.870 --> 00:13:56.649 We are we are doing intense work. And so you 00:13:56.649 --> 00:14:00.529 do it does help to be physically able to do these 00:14:00.529 --> 00:14:03.129 things. But I do think it builds up that mental 00:14:03.129 --> 00:14:06.210 strength as well, which is so important. I also 00:14:06.210 --> 00:14:10.509 am big. on nutrition, I think that what you eat 00:14:10.509 --> 00:14:13.570 matters. And so when you're getting your energy 00:14:13.570 --> 00:14:20.090 through food, you perform better as well. I think 00:14:20.090 --> 00:14:23.809 another aspect of health and wellness really 00:14:23.809 --> 00:14:27.929 is connection. And that can come from community, 00:14:28.409 --> 00:14:31.830 friends, family. It's such an important piece 00:14:31.830 --> 00:14:36.200 that I think a lot of people forget. And again, 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:39.000 sometimes you have to sacrifice maybe some studying 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:43.379 or maybe some sleep to call a friend or to go 00:14:43.379 --> 00:14:46.480 see family. And you'll actually find yourself 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:49.480 having more energy the next day because you did 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:52.820 that. So I think, yeah, connection, what you 00:14:52.820 --> 00:15:00.100 eat, exercise, and then having hobbies, which... 00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:02.820 Everyone always says sounds crazy because we're 00:15:02.820 --> 00:15:06.059 so busy. But for me, exercise is one of my hobbies. 00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:08.419 So that goes, that does go hand in hand, but 00:15:08.419 --> 00:15:10.399 everyone's different. But just finding something 00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:14.220 that really just brings you joy because all of 00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:17.840 those things will make you perform better when 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:20.960 you are in these high pressure, high stress environments. 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:24.899 They really do go hand in hand. I love this common 00:15:24.899 --> 00:15:27.519 theme of joy that you shared throughout your 00:15:27.519 --> 00:15:31.419 answers and throughout like what you're prioritizing. 00:15:31.659 --> 00:15:35.379 I think a lot of people view residency as this 00:15:35.379 --> 00:15:39.000 like slog through it. But it's exciting to hear, 00:15:39.100 --> 00:15:42.419 particularly as a med student, how you're finding 00:15:42.419 --> 00:15:45.220 that space for yourself even through it all. 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:49.519 Yeah, I mean, it's six years, my residency is 00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:54.440 six years, six years of my life. And you can't 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:58.100 just tell yourself Okay, in six years, I'm going 00:15:58.100 --> 00:16:02.059 to prioritize my health because every day is 00:16:02.059 --> 00:16:04.960 a gift, right? I mean, nothing is guaranteed. 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:08.000 And so if you're always, and we do this in medicine 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:10.299 because it's delayed gratification, right? When 00:16:10.299 --> 00:16:12.240 I get into med school, okay, when I finish med 00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:15.480 school, when I finish residency, it's like, where 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:19.340 does it end? You have to live where you're at 00:16:19.340 --> 00:16:23.679 now. And I actually got really incredible advice 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:27.159 from a retired breast micro surgeon. She said 00:16:27.159 --> 00:16:30.139 something along the lines of if you neglect your 00:16:30.139 --> 00:16:32.679 health in residency, you're only going to pay 00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:34.980 for it when you're in attending and when you're 00:16:34.980 --> 00:16:38.200 in retirement. And that's when you want to be 00:16:38.200 --> 00:16:41.639 enjoying all the work that you've done all your 00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:46.299 life. So it's again, there are definitely bad 00:16:46.299 --> 00:16:48.039 days. I don't want to sit here and be like, I 00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:52.360 am happy 100 % of the time. But you you just 00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:55.370 have to make it a priority because you just, 00:16:55.610 --> 00:16:57.730 you can't put your life on hold for the number 00:16:57.730 --> 00:17:01.909 of years that we spend in education and in training. 00:17:03.370 --> 00:17:06.589 I appreciate you sharing that. I actually want 00:17:06.589 --> 00:17:10.069 to shift gears a little bit. Can you share how 00:17:10.069 --> 00:17:12.470 you found your voice as a female surgeon and 00:17:12.470 --> 00:17:14.910 the importance of that journey in your career? 00:17:15.849 --> 00:17:20.769 Yeah, I think looking back, I do feel like there 00:17:20.769 --> 00:17:24.150 was a pivotal moment for me where I started coming 00:17:24.150 --> 00:17:27.609 into my own with this a bit more. I was actually 00:17:27.609 --> 00:17:31.410 on one of my away rotations as a medical student. 00:17:32.309 --> 00:17:34.769 And one of the residents was giving me advice 00:17:34.769 --> 00:17:37.309 on how to really shine during these. And in my 00:17:37.309 --> 00:17:39.650 opinion, away rotations are super important, 00:17:39.690 --> 00:17:42.369 especially for plastic. So we were speaking very 00:17:42.369 --> 00:17:45.529 candidly. I was really appreciative of the advice. 00:17:46.430 --> 00:17:51.069 And he said to me, that his first impression 00:17:51.069 --> 00:17:54.789 of me when I had walked into an OR was that I 00:17:54.789 --> 00:17:58.549 was timid and I had never been called timid before. 00:17:59.609 --> 00:18:04.589 And he said, along the lines of, you know, in 00:18:04.589 --> 00:18:07.069 surgery and especially as a woman in surgery, 00:18:07.450 --> 00:18:11.210 you can't afford to be perceived as timid. And 00:18:11.210 --> 00:18:12.430 I know some people listening to this might be 00:18:12.430 --> 00:18:14.630 like, oh, my goodness, you know, he said that 00:18:14.630 --> 00:18:17.720 to you, but I actually really took it to heart 00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:20.900 because I knew what he was getting at and I understood 00:18:20.900 --> 00:18:24.180 what he was saying. I wasn't confident when I 00:18:24.180 --> 00:18:26.980 walked into that OR. I wasn't sure of myself. 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:31.619 I was very hesitant. I know that. And I let that 00:18:31.619 --> 00:18:35.180 show. And so I told myself going forward, I was 00:18:35.180 --> 00:18:38.700 also new medical school, no home program. I just 00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:41.450 felt like I always... I just had something to 00:18:41.450 --> 00:18:43.529 prove and that I was always the least experienced 00:18:43.529 --> 00:18:45.829 person in the room. And I think that just really 00:18:45.829 --> 00:18:49.750 got to me. And so I said to myself, OK, never 00:18:49.750 --> 00:18:52.529 going to do that again. When you walk into a 00:18:52.529 --> 00:18:55.829 room, even if you have no idea what to do or 00:18:55.829 --> 00:18:59.069 no idea what's going on, you just walk in calm 00:18:59.069 --> 00:19:03.509 and confident and secure with yourself. And I 00:19:03.509 --> 00:19:05.670 say that, you know, as women, we have to work 00:19:05.670 --> 00:19:10.660 twice as hard to get half And I, you know, nothing 00:19:10.660 --> 00:19:13.319 is assumed. Like when we walk into a room, we 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:16.920 have to prove ourselves. And I mean, you walk 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:19.859 into a room in scrubs, you're pretty much assumed 00:19:19.859 --> 00:19:22.099 that you're the nurse and not the doctor. And 00:19:22.099 --> 00:19:23.759 you know, you have to make sure to introduce 00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:25.880 yourself as a doctor over and over again. And 00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:28.740 so that's what we're up against. And so why give 00:19:28.740 --> 00:19:32.680 people even more reason to doubt you? And so 00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:34.440 I really think it's important to just command 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:37.170 the room that you. walk into and command it with 00:19:37.170 --> 00:19:40.829 grace, with kindness, be respectful and be compassionate. 00:19:41.009 --> 00:19:43.869 But I think it's been super, super important 00:19:43.869 --> 00:19:46.890 for me as I'm in my second year of residency 00:19:46.890 --> 00:19:50.769 because you're building your reputation and how 00:19:50.769 --> 00:19:53.990 other people view you. And I would like to think 00:19:53.990 --> 00:19:57.069 that that's a good one and that people associate 00:19:57.069 --> 00:20:01.990 me with someone who is trustworthy and is confident. 00:20:02.430 --> 00:20:05.849 and collected and knows her worth as well and 00:20:05.849 --> 00:20:09.190 speaks up when she needs to be and isn't afraid 00:20:09.190 --> 00:20:11.950 of that, especially when it comes to patients, 00:20:12.309 --> 00:20:14.650 because you should always speak up for patients. 00:20:15.230 --> 00:20:17.890 So hopefully that kind of gives some guidance 00:20:17.890 --> 00:20:20.970 and answers a bit of that question. No, definitely. 00:20:22.190 --> 00:20:24.690 Well, this has been just such a lovely conversation 00:20:24.690 --> 00:20:27.769 and you've shared so many different little tidbits 00:20:27.769 --> 00:20:31.809 of advice. But do you have one overarching piece 00:20:31.809 --> 00:20:35.289 of advice that you would offer to aspiring surgeons, 00:20:35.569 --> 00:20:38.390 particularly young women, since you mentioned 00:20:38.390 --> 00:20:41.930 that you didn't necessarily have a lot of representation 00:20:41.930 --> 00:20:44.230 in the field who are considering a career in 00:20:44.230 --> 00:20:48.400 surgery? Definitely, I think. just going back 00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:51.019 to what I was saying before, it's so important 00:20:51.019 --> 00:20:54.180 to surround yourself with role models and women 00:20:54.180 --> 00:20:57.500 that you can look up to. It's just important 00:20:57.500 --> 00:21:00.619 to see other women too being happy in careers 00:21:00.619 --> 00:21:03.779 similar to the ones that you want to have. And 00:21:03.779 --> 00:21:07.660 if that means you're cold emailing surgeons that 00:21:07.660 --> 00:21:10.640 you admire, cold email surgeons that you admire. 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:14.799 And I think, yeah, it just shows you what's possible 00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:23.609 and it gives you that perspective. And, you know, 00:21:23.609 --> 00:21:27.190 I will say, don't be afraid to sit with yourself 00:21:27.190 --> 00:21:29.650 and think about if surgery is the right path 00:21:29.650 --> 00:21:32.049 for you and talk to your mentors and get their 00:21:32.049 --> 00:21:36.450 advice and perspective. And it's not, if you're 00:21:36.450 --> 00:21:38.730 questioning whether or not this is right for 00:21:38.730 --> 00:21:42.210 you, that's okay. You shouldn't be ashamed of 00:21:42.210 --> 00:21:45.799 that either. Well, thank you so much for having 00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:48.339 this really candid and thoughtful discussion 00:21:48.339 --> 00:21:51.599 with me today. That's a wrap on this episode 00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:54.880 of Our Voice is Our Future. We hope today's conversation 00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:57.619 inspired you, challenged you, and reminded you 00:21:57.619 --> 00:22:00.420 of the power of raising your voice. The fight 00:22:00.420 --> 00:22:02.740 for equity doesn't stop here. Join us in the 00:22:02.740 --> 00:22:05.240 movement. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. 00:22:05.539 --> 00:22:07.539 And if you loved this episode, share it with 00:22:07.539 --> 00:22:10.019 someone who needs to hear it. Until next time, 00:22:10.279 --> 00:22:12.759 stay bold, stay vocal, and keep the conversation 00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:15.359 going. This is our voices, our future.