WEBVTT 00:00:14.520 --> 00:00:17.199 Welcome to Our Voices Our Future, the podcast 00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:19.339 where we amplify the voices driving change and 00:00:19.339 --> 00:00:21.859 equity within medicine and beyond. Brought to 00:00:21.859 --> 00:00:24.199 you by the Gender Equity Task Force, a committee 00:00:24.199 --> 00:00:26.300 of the American Medical Women's Association, 00:00:26.699 --> 00:00:28.440 we're here to challenge norms, break barriers, 00:00:28.620 --> 00:00:31.239 and ignite conversations that matter. I'm Megan 00:00:31.239 --> 00:00:33.380 Etsy, and in each episode, we'll bring you candid 00:00:33.380 --> 00:00:35.759 discussions with leaders, change makers, and 00:00:35.759 --> 00:00:37.539 advocates working to create a more inclusive 00:00:37.539 --> 00:00:40.320 and just world. No more silence, no more waiting. 00:00:40.700 --> 00:00:42.859 You're listening to Our Voices Our Future. Let's 00:00:42.859 --> 00:00:46.670 get into it. Today's guest is Stephanie Fernaro, 00:00:47.570 --> 00:00:50.829 who became a mother for the second time she experienced 00:00:50.829 --> 00:00:53.429 postpartum depression, an outcome that affects 00:00:53.429 --> 00:00:56.270 up to one in seven mothers, yet is rarely discussed 00:00:56.270 --> 00:00:58.570 alongside the structural realities that fuel 00:00:58.570 --> 00:01:01.590 it. Like many women, she was carrying the invisible 00:01:01.590 --> 00:01:04.489 labor of caregiving, household management, and 00:01:04.489 --> 00:01:07.870 emotional load, work that remains largely unpaid, 00:01:08.109 --> 00:01:11.069 unmeasured, and unsupported. One intervention 00:01:11.069 --> 00:01:13.680 shifted everything. hiring a mother's helper. 00:01:14.219 --> 00:01:16.280 What seemed like a personal solution revealed 00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:19.299 a much larger truth, that access to caregiving 00:01:19.299 --> 00:01:22.019 support is not a luxury, but a determinant of 00:01:22.019 --> 00:01:25.060 mental health, workforce participation, and family 00:01:25.060 --> 00:01:27.870 stability. Today Stephanie is the founder of 00:01:27.870 --> 00:01:30.890 Hello Nanny, a nationwide child care agency designed 00:01:30.890 --> 00:01:33.489 to close the gap between families who need support 00:01:33.489 --> 00:01:36.609 and systems that fail to provide it. By offering 00:01:36.609 --> 00:01:39.750 flexible, scalable child care solutions at multiple 00:01:39.750 --> 00:01:42.890 price points, Hello Nanny challenges a market 00:01:42.890 --> 00:01:45.349 where professional care has historically been 00:01:45.349 --> 00:01:48.920 accessible only to the wealthy. Stephanie's work 00:01:48.920 --> 00:01:52.760 reframes child care as infrastructure, not indulgence, 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:56.280 and positions investing in care as an economic 00:01:56.280 --> 00:01:58.859 and public health imperative, not a personal 00:01:58.859 --> 00:02:01.719 failure. So Stephanie, to start off, can you 00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:03.760 kind of just tell us a bit about your work and 00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:06.239 what initially drew you to examining motherhood 00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:08.520 through the lens of numbers, data, and systems 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:11.979 rather than just your personal experience? Yeah, 00:02:11.979 --> 00:02:15.020 absolutely. Thanks for having me today. My background 00:02:15.020 --> 00:02:18.280 actually comes from medical device and software 00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:21.479 sales. So I spent years thinking about systems, 00:02:21.639 --> 00:02:23.740 where they break down, and how to design better 00:02:23.740 --> 00:02:26.780 solutions. And in my previous roles, I ran my 00:02:26.780 --> 00:02:30.000 work operationally, almost like a business inside 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:33.259 of a business. So my brain naturally goes to 00:02:33.259 --> 00:02:36.699 root causes and scalable solutions. When I became 00:02:36.699 --> 00:02:39.639 a mother while working full time, I realized 00:02:39.639 --> 00:02:43.020 very quickly that what I was struggling with 00:02:43.020 --> 00:02:46.199 wasn't just personal, it was structural. So I 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:48.560 was experiencing the mental load of motherhood 00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:51.479 in a very real way, trying to manage a demanding 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:54.900 career, a newborn and everything in between without 00:02:54.900 --> 00:02:57.240 reliable support, expecting my husband to do 00:02:57.240 --> 00:02:59.680 it all. But he was an entrepreneur, he traveled 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:02.360 a lot. So that expectation that I had on him 00:03:02.360 --> 00:03:04.939 as an entrepreneur who had a very demanding job, 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:07.659 it was really unrealistic. And so that's what 00:03:07.659 --> 00:03:11.560 ultimately led me to found Hello Nanny in 2022, 00:03:12.099 --> 00:03:14.699 I wanted to help families build sustainable caregiving 00:03:14.699 --> 00:03:17.319 systems instead of constantly operating in crisis 00:03:17.319 --> 00:03:20.919 mode. Absolutely. I love that you hit on the 00:03:20.919 --> 00:03:23.020 mental load. I know some people still aren't 00:03:23.020 --> 00:03:24.780 quite familiar with what that is. Do you mind 00:03:24.780 --> 00:03:27.280 kind of talking a little bit about what mental 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:30.139 load is considered? Yeah, absolutely. So it's 00:03:30.139 --> 00:03:33.520 the invisible labor that goes into planning and 00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:35.860 executing everything on the home. So who's thinking 00:03:35.860 --> 00:03:39.270 about birthday presents, who's purchasing the 00:03:39.270 --> 00:03:41.189 Valentine cards that are coming up in February, 00:03:41.310 --> 00:03:43.849 who's thinking about, I need to purchase Valentine 00:03:43.849 --> 00:03:47.669 cards for my child's classroom. I need to, like 00:03:47.669 --> 00:03:49.849 all of the things behind the scenes that happen, 00:03:49.969 --> 00:03:52.330 like I need to purchase groceries for the week. 00:03:52.370 --> 00:03:55.090 I need to plan for the meals this week. All of 00:03:55.090 --> 00:03:58.150 the invisible labor that is managed in the home 00:03:58.150 --> 00:04:01.469 is what refers to as the mental load. Thank you 00:04:01.469 --> 00:04:04.629 so much. So when we talk about the hidden math 00:04:04.629 --> 00:04:06.750 of motherhood, what are the key numbers that 00:04:06.750 --> 00:04:09.810 people tend to overlook, whether it's time, unpaid 00:04:09.810 --> 00:04:13.949 labor, caregiving cost, or lost economic opportunity? 00:04:14.870 --> 00:04:17.110 Yeah, that's a great question. When people hear 00:04:17.110 --> 00:04:20.589 math, they often think money. But the hidden 00:04:20.589 --> 00:04:24.149 math of motherhood is really about time, cognitive 00:04:24.149 --> 00:04:27.629 load, and unpaid labor in the home. The mental 00:04:27.629 --> 00:04:30.550 load of motherhood is the constant invisible 00:04:30.550 --> 00:04:33.699 work planning, coordinating, anticipating needs, 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:36.399 as I mentioned, that runs in the background all 00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:39.699 day every day. So that labor isn't tracked or 00:04:39.699 --> 00:04:42.899 valued, but it has a very real consequence for 00:04:42.899 --> 00:04:45.180 stress levels, mental health, and long -term 00:04:45.180 --> 00:04:49.019 career outcomes. So for example, time spent coordinating 00:04:49.019 --> 00:04:50.920 child care, scheduling medical appointments, 00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:54.040 managing household logistics often happens outside 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:56.819 of paid work, but it directly affects performance 00:04:56.819 --> 00:04:59.220 and well -being. So once you start looking at 00:04:59.220 --> 00:05:01.639 motherhood through that lens, you realize this 00:05:01.639 --> 00:05:04.959 isn't about individual capacity, it's about systems 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:09.519 that aren't designed for modern life. So when 00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:12.839 we look at these invisible calculations, especially 00:05:12.839 --> 00:05:15.959 the uneven distribution of caregiving that show 00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:19.959 up in women's mental health, burnout, and long 00:05:19.959 --> 00:05:22.019 -term career trajectories, what does the data 00:05:22.019 --> 00:05:26.079 tell us? What do we know about this? The data 00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:29.649 tells us that it's just disproportionately leaning 00:05:29.649 --> 00:05:34.810 on on women and women are carrying that that 00:05:34.810 --> 00:05:40.209 burden exponentially. And so it's just a cultural 00:05:40.209 --> 00:05:42.009 expectation that we have. I think that we've 00:05:42.009 --> 00:05:45.290 just always done it. We continue to do it. And, 00:05:45.290 --> 00:05:48.790 you know, in the 1960s, it was a dynamic where 00:05:48.790 --> 00:05:50.990 primarily men were in the workforce, women were 00:05:50.990 --> 00:05:54.370 at home. And that is just not our reality anymore. 00:05:54.839 --> 00:05:59.139 and our culture hasn't shifted alongside that 00:05:59.139 --> 00:06:01.720 new infrastructure that we have today where you 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:04.959 have dual working homes, modern families, and 00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:07.420 our society and culture hasn't adapted to that 00:06:07.420 --> 00:06:11.819 shift. So you kind of emphasize and talk about 00:06:11.819 --> 00:06:14.560 how investing in care is not an expense, but 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:17.079 it's an economic imperative. Can you kind of 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:19.860 walk us through how inadequate childcare, unpaid 00:06:19.860 --> 00:06:22.319 labor, and burnout create that ripple effect 00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:31.040 that extend far beyond individual families? Yes. 00:06:31.660 --> 00:06:34.660 So essentially, when care systems fail, the costs 00:06:34.660 --> 00:06:37.740 don't stay inside the home. We see ripple effects 00:06:37.740 --> 00:06:40.620 in workforce attrition, increased healthcare 00:06:40.620 --> 00:06:43.800 utilization, and reduced productivity. So burnout 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:47.019 is expensive, not just emotionally, but systematically. 00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:50.540 So childcare infrastructure and investing in 00:06:50.540 --> 00:06:53.680 care improves mental health outcomes, workforce 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:56.339 stability, and long -term economic health. This 00:06:56.339 --> 00:06:59.060 is especially relevant in healthcare, where burnout 00:06:59.060 --> 00:07:01.279 is already high and caregiving demands often 00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:07.160 compound existing pressures. So on a more personal 00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:10.279 and practical level, what role do things like 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:13.100 hiring help, redistributing household labor, 00:07:13.579 --> 00:07:16.040 or setting boundaries actually play in protecting 00:07:16.040 --> 00:07:18.500 mothers' mental health, and why shouldn't these 00:07:18.500 --> 00:07:22.420 be seen as individual luxuries or failures? Well, 00:07:22.699 --> 00:07:24.740 child care and mental health are deeply connected, 00:07:24.740 --> 00:07:27.839 and they say that if you look at the mom's mental 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:30.120 health and her well -being, it directly ties 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:33.139 to the developmental outcomes for their child. 00:07:33.819 --> 00:07:36.620 So if mom isn't okay, then the development of 00:07:36.620 --> 00:07:39.120 the child is not going to be okay. So the two 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:43.040 have to coexist. So hiring a nanny for me was 00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:45.779 a turning point, not because I wanted to do less, 00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:47.680 and I actually had to set aside my pride and 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:50.160 get out of my own way, because initially, When 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:54.120 my husband proposed this idea, I was absolutely 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:57.100 against it. In my mind, I thought, I'm not letting 00:07:57.100 --> 00:08:01.399 someone else raise my child. And so when I was 00:08:01.399 --> 00:08:06.149 able to get that out of my mind, What I found 00:08:06.149 --> 00:08:08.810 was that I needed the system around me to work. 00:08:08.910 --> 00:08:11.470 And when I was able to get out of my own way, 00:08:11.610 --> 00:08:13.850 the system started to work because I had the 00:08:13.850 --> 00:08:15.649 support and the infrastructure in place to make 00:08:15.649 --> 00:08:19.370 it work. So that support allowed me to recover 00:08:19.370 --> 00:08:22.310 mentally. It allowed me to be more present as 00:08:22.310 --> 00:08:24.930 a parent and function better professionally. 00:08:25.089 --> 00:08:27.949 It didn't just help me. It stabilized our entire 00:08:27.949 --> 00:08:31.410 family system and support systems. are shown 00:08:31.410 --> 00:08:34.309 to reduce burnout in the same way that preventative 00:08:34.309 --> 00:08:37.230 care does. They protect long -term health. These 00:08:37.230 --> 00:08:40.789 aren't luxuries. They are protective factors. 00:08:40.870 --> 00:08:43.269 And that's why I started this agency was because 00:08:43.269 --> 00:08:46.129 what I realized is, as someone who's been married 00:08:46.129 --> 00:08:48.750 and divorced, I'm on my second marriage, was 00:08:48.750 --> 00:08:52.549 that I really believe that if more families had 00:08:52.549 --> 00:08:56.409 support, there would be fewer families that are 00:08:56.409 --> 00:09:01.009 broken and divided as a result. So that's actually 00:09:01.009 --> 00:09:03.330 something your kind of mindset that you had at 00:09:03.330 --> 00:09:05.070 the beginning of that is still things that I 00:09:05.070 --> 00:09:07.529 say to myself is I want to raise my children 00:09:07.529 --> 00:09:10.149 myself. I'm not a mother yet. And so it's very 00:09:10.149 --> 00:09:12.230 interesting to hear you say that. What what pulls 00:09:12.230 --> 00:09:14.830 you out of that funk and thinking that and what 00:09:14.830 --> 00:09:17.990 made you say, OK, actually, it's OK to have some 00:09:17.990 --> 00:09:22.009 help. You know, my pediatrician had a little 00:09:22.009 --> 00:09:24.590 part in that. She asked me one day we were in 00:09:24.590 --> 00:09:29.559 my son's pediatrician appointment and Our pediatrician 00:09:29.559 --> 00:09:31.419 could overhear us arguing in the room and she 00:09:31.419 --> 00:09:34.960 comes in and she says, hey, you too. And she 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:36.940 goes from pediatrician to marriage counselor. 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:39.580 And my husband's like, I've been telling her 00:09:39.580 --> 00:09:41.659 let's hire a mother's helper. And she refuses. 00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:45.759 And my pediatrician said, are you crazy? Your 00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:49.120 husband's offering to hire a nanny and you're 00:09:49.120 --> 00:09:51.960 telling him no. And I said, well, yeah, because 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:54.159 I don't want someone else raising my son. And 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:56.919 she goes, someone's not. someone else isn't raising 00:09:56.919 --> 00:10:00.100 your son. It's just accepting support and help. 00:10:00.940 --> 00:10:04.120 And hearing it from a pediatrician, I think, 00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:08.259 for me, rather than my husband, we become immune 00:10:08.259 --> 00:10:10.240 to our husband's advice. But when it's someone 00:10:10.240 --> 00:10:13.419 who's a professional, it's more logical. And 00:10:13.419 --> 00:10:15.179 so it just resonated with me. And so hearing 00:10:15.179 --> 00:10:18.879 it from my pediatrician was like, OK. she's a 00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:22.120 professional. I hold her in high regard in her 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:24.279 professional opinion. And so she's telling me 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:27.120 that there is nothing wrong with me hiring support. 00:10:27.179 --> 00:10:30.399 And so she allowed me to do that soul searching 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:34.059 that I needed to come to that revelation. That's 00:10:34.059 --> 00:10:35.399 great. I'm glad that she was there to support 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:39.720 you. That's incredible. How would you say we 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:42.460 move this conversation from just the household, 00:10:42.759 --> 00:10:45.600 you and your husband just talking about it, into 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:48.360 more public policy, more workplace structures, 00:10:48.500 --> 00:10:51.419 what kind of systemic changes would you say would 00:10:51.419 --> 00:10:56.120 help? I would say it would be things like paid 00:10:56.120 --> 00:10:59.620 leave, affordable child care, flexibility without 00:10:59.620 --> 00:11:12.159 penalty, or not just maternity leave, but also 00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:15.779 paternity leave and normalizing paternity leave. 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:20.620 I actually had a colleague of mine who I worked 00:11:20.620 --> 00:11:22.960 with many years ago. I noticed he posted something 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:26.179 on LinkedIn a few weeks ago. And he said he had 00:11:26.179 --> 00:11:28.480 taken a sabbatical or he had not a sabbatical. 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:33.159 He quit his job for a year while he was there 00:11:33.159 --> 00:11:36.059 for his family during a really hard and difficult 00:11:36.059 --> 00:11:39.450 time for his family. after the loss of his mother 00:11:39.450 --> 00:11:42.909 and, you know, finalizing her estate and then 00:11:42.909 --> 00:11:45.450 being there for his wife and his family through 00:11:45.450 --> 00:11:48.710 that, he said he felt like he was letting down 00:11:48.710 --> 00:11:52.029 his organization. And so for him, he felt like 00:11:52.029 --> 00:11:54.450 the solution was just to resign from his position 00:11:54.450 --> 00:11:56.470 because he didn't want to let his company down. 00:11:57.029 --> 00:12:00.350 And I thought, you know, that right there, I 00:12:00.350 --> 00:12:03.549 think is it sends a it's a huge message, right, 00:12:03.649 --> 00:12:09.009 that. The men in our society also have a ton 00:12:09.009 --> 00:12:12.450 of pressure on them culturally as well that if 00:12:12.450 --> 00:12:15.029 they are supposed to work as though they don't 00:12:15.029 --> 00:12:17.710 have families as though they don't have responsibilities 00:12:17.710 --> 00:12:19.990 because the assumption is they have a spouse 00:12:19.990 --> 00:12:22.070 at home who's taking care of all of those things. 00:12:23.009 --> 00:12:26.990 And so I think if we normalize paternity leave, 00:12:27.409 --> 00:12:31.549 we normalize dads being a large part of their 00:12:31.549 --> 00:12:35.110 family systems and a large part of rearing and 00:12:35.110 --> 00:12:38.070 raising and developing their children, that the 00:12:38.070 --> 00:12:41.970 imbalance will shift that way as well. I love 00:12:41.970 --> 00:12:45.379 that. That sounds incredible. So for anybody 00:12:45.379 --> 00:12:48.600 listening, whether it's mothers, partners, employers, 00:12:49.179 --> 00:12:51.860 policymakers, what's one of the biggest kind 00:12:51.860 --> 00:12:54.460 of mind shift or action you believe would most 00:12:54.460 --> 00:12:58.480 immediately help reduce this mental load and 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:03.049 better support caregiving equity? I would say 00:13:03.049 --> 00:13:05.870 allowing families, because families are expected, 00:13:05.929 --> 00:13:08.730 when they hire support, they're expected to pay 00:13:08.730 --> 00:13:11.929 legally. Above board, they're an employer, they're 00:13:11.929 --> 00:13:15.230 W -2 -ing the person that they hire in the home, 00:13:17.090 --> 00:13:21.830 and yet they are not allowed to write that expense 00:13:21.830 --> 00:13:24.590 off as an operational expense as a business would. 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:30.019 So I would say the first thing is policy reform 00:13:30.019 --> 00:13:34.120 as it relates to how we treat families as an 00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:38.080 employer and the tax liabilities that they have 00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:42.000 by being an employer and that if they are operating 00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:47.419 as a business that they are also able to be seen 00:13:47.419 --> 00:13:50.799 in a tax perspective as a business and that the 00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:53.700 operational expense of hiring support in their 00:13:53.700 --> 00:13:56.019 home, whether that be a nanny or a family assistant. 00:13:56.299 --> 00:13:59.360 And I'm not saying a full staff. I'm saying one 00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:02.679 person in the home that that is an operational 00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:08.279 expense that can offset tax liability. Do you 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:11.200 know if people who like have personal LSEs or 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:13.779 something do this? Is this something that people 00:14:13.779 --> 00:14:15.980 who run their own business can do for themselves? 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:19.720 No, you cannot write. You cannot employ your 00:14:19.720 --> 00:14:22.379 nanny or your family assistant under your LLC 00:14:22.379 --> 00:14:26.159 or under your business. It's not legal. Gotcha. 00:14:26.700 --> 00:14:29.779 Right. So that's the issue. Right. Exactly. And 00:14:29.779 --> 00:14:32.580 so I think that if there was policy reform that 00:14:32.580 --> 00:14:35.480 says, look, every family, if you hire someone 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:37.399 in the home, whether it's a family assistant, 00:14:37.539 --> 00:14:40.340 a nanny, one employee, not multiple, not a team, 00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:44.940 but just want that because in order for me to 00:14:44.940 --> 00:14:48.350 go to work, I need that support at home. And 00:14:48.350 --> 00:14:53.049 it is a necessity. I cannot go to work if I don't 00:14:53.049 --> 00:14:56.389 have this infrastructure at home. It is an operational 00:14:56.389 --> 00:15:00.049 expense that is contingent on my ability to contribute 00:15:00.049 --> 00:15:02.830 to the workforce. So it's an operational expense, 00:15:02.830 --> 00:15:04.809 but it's not treated as that. So I think that 00:15:04.809 --> 00:15:08.370 would be the biggest impact right away if we 00:15:08.370 --> 00:15:11.779 had policy reform in that regard. I love that. 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:14.360 Thank you. That's such a perspective I've never 00:15:14.360 --> 00:15:16.820 even heard anything about before. And that's 00:15:16.820 --> 00:15:19.519 so incredible. Thank you for sharing that. Yes, 00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:21.840 I'm happy to share it. And I'm hoping that more 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:24.440 people can hear about it. And it's just an out 00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:27.580 of the box way that as I've been doing this, 00:15:27.700 --> 00:15:29.580 I've been doing it for almost five years now. 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:31.899 And I eat, sleep, and breathe this industry, 00:15:32.059 --> 00:15:36.590 which I never imagined I would. hiring support 00:15:36.590 --> 00:15:40.090 became such a revelation for me and my life that 00:15:40.090 --> 00:15:43.289 I was like more people need to know about this 00:15:43.289 --> 00:15:47.250 and how can I fix it and make it better so that 00:15:47.250 --> 00:15:50.049 families are functioning and by starting this 00:15:50.049 --> 00:15:53.669 work, I realized there is a systematic issue 00:15:53.669 --> 00:15:56.769 that we have and I'm determined to resolve it. 00:15:57.129 --> 00:15:59.929 So thanks for including me on this conversation. 00:16:00.620 --> 00:16:03.639 Yeah, it's kind of so cool to hear how you came 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:06.399 from being postpartum from your second child 00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:08.519 and like not believing in the help at all to 00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:12.100 now being like the pro advocate for it. Yeah, 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:18.129 I went from one extreme to the other and I actually, 00:16:18.789 --> 00:16:21.149 one part of my story that I've shared publicly 00:16:21.149 --> 00:16:23.870 as well is that my biological mom left when I 00:16:23.870 --> 00:16:27.470 was five years old. And I spent my entire life 00:16:27.470 --> 00:16:29.809 really not understanding how a mom could just 00:16:29.809 --> 00:16:33.830 leave her children. And it wasn't until I had 00:16:33.830 --> 00:16:36.870 my son that when I went through my postpartum 00:16:36.870 --> 00:16:39.990 depression period, I was like, it makes sense 00:16:39.990 --> 00:16:43.929 now. Now I understand because leaving felt easier 00:16:43.929 --> 00:16:47.259 in that moment. And the difference in what I 00:16:47.259 --> 00:16:49.879 realized was the difference between my biological 00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:53.159 mom and myself was that I had a supportive partner 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:56.480 and access to resources that she didn't have 00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:00.240 access to. And that if more moms had access to 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.860 this type of support, that there would be fewer 00:17:04.860 --> 00:17:08.519 There would be less trauma in this world. There'd 00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:11.640 be more families that stay together. There would 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:14.579 be more children that have parents that are grounded 00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:18.640 and healthy. And so I think this is a systematic 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:23.660 issue that if we can find a solution for culturally, 00:17:23.859 --> 00:17:26.920 there will be a shift and a much healthier shift 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:29.980 in our society. That's incredible. Thank you 00:17:29.980 --> 00:17:31.900 so much for sharing that. This has been a great 00:17:31.900 --> 00:17:35.730 conversation. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So 00:17:35.730 --> 00:17:37.750 that's a wrap on this episode of Our Voice is 00:17:37.750 --> 00:17:40.470 Our Future. We hope today's conversation inspired 00:17:40.470 --> 00:17:43.109 you, challenged you, and reminded you of the 00:17:43.109 --> 00:17:45.549 power of raising your voice. The fight for equity 00:17:45.549 --> 00:17:48.150 doesn't stop here. Join us in the movement, subscribe 00:17:48.150 --> 00:17:50.089 wherever you get your podcasts, and if you love 00:17:50.089 --> 00:17:51.950 this episode, share it with someone who needs 00:17:51.950 --> 00:17:54.670 to hear it. Until next time, stay bold, stay 00:17:54.670 --> 00:17:56.769 vocal, and keep the conversation going. This 00:17:56.769 --> 00:17:57.990 is Our Voice is Our Future.