WEBVTT 00:00:14.900 --> 00:00:17.379 Welcome to Our Voices, Our Future, the podcast 00:00:17.379 --> 00:00:19.660 where we amplify the voices driving change and 00:00:19.660 --> 00:00:22.079 equity within medicine and beyond. Brought to 00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:24.160 you by the Gender Equity Task Force, a committee 00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:26.219 of the American Medical Women's Association, 00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:28.519 we're here to challenge norms, break barriers, 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:31.379 and unite conversations that matter. I'm Megan 00:00:31.379 --> 00:00:33.759 Etsy, and in each episode, we'll bring you candid 00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:36.240 discussions with leaders, change makers, and 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:38.240 advocates working to create a more inclusive 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:41.200 and just world. No more silence, no more waiting. 00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:43.909 You're listening to Our Voices, Our Future. Let's 00:00:43.909 --> 00:00:46.990 get into it. Today we're welcoming Miss Christine 00:00:46.990 --> 00:00:49.850 Wilson. Christine has a master's degree in medical 00:00:49.850 --> 00:00:52.549 health science and a bachelor's in exercise science. 00:00:53.109 --> 00:00:55.429 She is currently pursuing her second master's 00:00:55.429 --> 00:00:59.429 degree in physician assistant studies. Beyond 00:00:59.429 --> 00:01:01.909 her academics, she has a wife and a mom of two 00:01:01.909 --> 00:01:04.599 boys. a three -year -old and an almost two -year 00:01:04.599 --> 00:01:07.140 -old. She had her first son during her undergraduate 00:01:07.140 --> 00:01:09.099 degree and had her second right in the middle 00:01:09.099 --> 00:01:11.879 of her first master's degree. She has served 00:01:11.879 --> 00:01:14.920 as the president of her AMWA chapter at the Utah 00:01:14.920 --> 00:01:17.620 Valley University, and she's held other leadership 00:01:17.620 --> 00:01:19.819 roles in both her undergraduate and graduate 00:01:19.819 --> 00:01:22.859 educational pursuits. She's an overall goal of 00:01:22.859 --> 00:01:26.159 becoming an OB -GYN PA and working in leadership 00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:30.319 at a hospital as a board member and in PA advocacy. 00:01:31.019 --> 00:01:34.140 Thanks for being here today, Christine. Thanks 00:01:34.140 --> 00:01:37.239 for having me. Yeah. So can you kind of just 00:01:37.239 --> 00:01:39.780 start by sharing a bit about your journey into 00:01:39.780 --> 00:01:43.299 medicine and what's inspired you to pursue becoming 00:01:43.299 --> 00:01:46.400 a PA, especially while creating the little family 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:49.900 of yours? Yeah, I would describe my journey as 00:01:49.900 --> 00:01:53.640 fairly typical. I didn't have an insane one experience 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:56.040 that led me to the medical field, but I was a 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:57.599 gymnast. I was a competitive gymnast growing 00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:02.099 up. And so I learned I was very performance motivated. 00:02:02.099 --> 00:02:04.120 I wanted to learn everything. thing that would 00:02:04.120 --> 00:02:06.459 enhance my gymnastics career. So I actually started 00:02:06.459 --> 00:02:09.300 doing like my own little research on YouTube 00:02:09.300 --> 00:02:11.379 and probably learned a lot of misinformation 00:02:11.379 --> 00:02:14.699 on my way. But I went in and did a ton of research 00:02:14.699 --> 00:02:18.400 on my own just to figure out how I could become 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:20.979 a better athlete, how I could gain muscle while 00:02:20.979 --> 00:02:24.259 also maintaining flexibility, all this stuff. 00:02:24.539 --> 00:02:27.460 Kind of just fell in love with the process of 00:02:27.460 --> 00:02:30.780 learning about anatomy and the body in general. 00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:35.300 And so I decided to pursue that. I have a whole 00:02:35.300 --> 00:02:38.599 plethora of experiences that kind of steered 00:02:38.599 --> 00:02:40.979 me towards medicine in addition to those, but 00:02:40.979 --> 00:02:45.500 that was kind of the main thing. And yeah, I 00:02:45.500 --> 00:02:48.259 decided ultimately that I wanted to be a doctor. 00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:53.219 So I was pre -med for three years. I pursued 00:02:53.219 --> 00:02:56.460 that wholeheartedly. I joined all the clubs. 00:02:56.719 --> 00:02:59.240 I learned as much as I could. I'm also a first 00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:01.629 -generation college student, so I kind of had 00:03:01.629 --> 00:03:05.590 no idea what I was doing. But but yeah, I just 00:03:05.590 --> 00:03:08.430 kind of went in head first into that field. And 00:03:08.430 --> 00:03:11.870 I was super lucky and got married in between 00:03:11.870 --> 00:03:15.330 my sophomore and junior year of college. And 00:03:15.330 --> 00:03:18.430 I was still just, you know, head first into medicine. 00:03:18.669 --> 00:03:21.729 And then I found out I was pregnant shortly not 00:03:21.729 --> 00:03:25.090 not long after getting married. And that was 00:03:25.090 --> 00:03:27.650 a huge surprise to me. I have always wanted to 00:03:27.650 --> 00:03:31.009 be a mom, but I just was like, oh my gosh, what 00:03:31.009 --> 00:03:33.610 is this disruption in my timeline that I'm looking 00:03:33.610 --> 00:03:37.310 at here? So that was kind of a big surprise. 00:03:37.330 --> 00:03:41.210 And it led me to do a lot of thinking and what 00:03:41.210 --> 00:03:45.090 I kind of reevaluate what I really wanted. And 00:03:45.090 --> 00:03:48.090 ultimately, I just decided that for me personally, 00:03:48.469 --> 00:03:51.919 the home life balance wasn't great. with what 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:54.460 I was going to be trying to achieve as a as a 00:03:54.460 --> 00:03:58.819 doctor. So I started looking into PA and I loved 00:03:58.819 --> 00:04:01.639 it. I started shadowing some PAs and I just felt 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:04.900 like this was exactly what I wanted. I applaud 00:04:04.900 --> 00:04:08.740 and admire any woman who becomes a doctor and 00:04:08.740 --> 00:04:11.400 is also a mother or wants to be a mother. I think 00:04:11.400 --> 00:04:14.900 it's absolutely possible and beautiful. I just 00:04:14.900 --> 00:04:18.459 I personally wasn't willing to make some of the 00:04:18.519 --> 00:04:20.360 the thing or make some of the decisions that 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:23.560 would be required with with that decision. So 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:26.980 again, I respect it so wholeheartedly. It was 00:04:26.980 --> 00:04:29.579 just for me. I decided that P .A. was exactly 00:04:29.579 --> 00:04:32.959 what I was looking for. Yeah. So ultimately, 00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:35.660 that's what led me here. When I was pregnant 00:04:35.660 --> 00:04:39.920 with my first, I never really even thought about 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:42.139 taking a break from school, which is so funny. 00:04:42.339 --> 00:04:44.220 But, you know, I just was like, oh, this is what 00:04:44.220 --> 00:04:47.079 I've always wanted. to be a mom and to be a provider. 00:04:47.100 --> 00:04:49.279 So I'm just going to make that happen. I can 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:52.079 be pregnant at home or I can be pregnant at school. 00:04:52.139 --> 00:04:56.100 So let's do this. So I never really, really took 00:04:56.100 --> 00:05:00.060 a break. But and I'm glad now that I didn't because 00:05:00.060 --> 00:05:04.040 I think it just kind of kept the motivation up 00:05:04.040 --> 00:05:07.660 for me kept kept the momentum. So yeah, I just 00:05:07.660 --> 00:05:09.620 while I was raising my little family just decided 00:05:09.620 --> 00:05:12.100 that this is ultimately what I what I've wanted 00:05:12.100 --> 00:05:13.920 the whole time. So I might as well keep going. 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:17.199 I love it. And congrats on being a first -generation 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:19.839 college student and on your second master's degree. 00:05:19.899 --> 00:05:23.980 That's incredible. So you've described being 00:05:23.980 --> 00:05:27.220 a mom in medicine is not only possible, but deeply 00:05:27.220 --> 00:05:29.740 fulfilling. What does that balance kind of look 00:05:29.740 --> 00:05:32.259 for you in day -to -day and what helps you kind 00:05:32.259 --> 00:05:35.199 of stay grounded in both the mom role and the 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:39.620 student role? Yeah, so it is deeply fulfilling. 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:44.209 I always tell my friends that I'm I get to come 00:05:44.209 --> 00:05:47.529 home to my greatest why every single day. And 00:05:47.529 --> 00:05:49.329 I feel like that is such a huge blessing. It's 00:05:49.329 --> 00:05:52.790 not something that I, you know, rarely remember 00:05:52.790 --> 00:05:54.870 that one experience that led me to medicine, 00:05:54.870 --> 00:05:56.870 and I can think about that when it gets hard. 00:05:57.149 --> 00:06:00.209 But I come home to my biggest little motivators 00:06:00.209 --> 00:06:02.910 every single day in my life. So I feel super, 00:06:03.009 --> 00:06:06.269 super lucky to have that perspective. And as 00:06:06.269 --> 00:06:10.990 a student, it's a daily juggling act. The balance 00:06:10.990 --> 00:06:13.850 is, you know, some sort of combination or recipe, 00:06:13.850 --> 00:06:17.009 I guess, of like four ingredients for me. And 00:06:17.009 --> 00:06:19.250 the first ingredient is that I have to dedicate 00:06:19.250 --> 00:06:24.269 time to just being mom, just mom time. The second 00:06:24.269 --> 00:06:27.310 is that I have to dedicate time to pretty much 00:06:27.310 --> 00:06:29.709 just being a student. And I say pretty much because 00:06:29.709 --> 00:06:32.470 I can never really turn off mom brain. I'm always 00:06:32.470 --> 00:06:36.050 thinking about my kids, but dedicated time to 00:06:36.050 --> 00:06:38.490 focus on my studies is absolutely essential to 00:06:38.490 --> 00:06:43.009 my success. And then the third would We I do 00:06:43.009 --> 00:06:45.050 have to dedicate a little bit of time to my husband 00:06:45.050 --> 00:06:47.410 every single day Just just something sometimes 00:06:47.410 --> 00:06:49.310 it's a few minutes that I'm just talking with 00:06:49.310 --> 00:06:51.730 him, but he's also doing so much for our family 00:06:51.730 --> 00:06:53.870 right now So I have to recognize that he needs 00:06:53.870 --> 00:06:56.769 breaks and he needs time, too So that's definitely 00:06:56.769 --> 00:07:00.110 part of part of the daily juggle and then four 00:07:00.110 --> 00:07:06.800 is just a tiny bit of time for me But yeah, so 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:09.680 that usually looks like I wake up early and I 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:11.899 get my workout in and that's kind of my me time. 00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:14.920 I've always loved that. So that's how I've kind 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:18.879 of channeled that into having some me time. And 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:21.420 it's just time to like quite literally work on 00:07:21.420 --> 00:07:25.639 myself. So I love that. And then when I'm at 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:28.819 school or in class, that is my pretty much dedicated 00:07:28.819 --> 00:07:31.199 student time. I can still, you know, check in 00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:33.860 on my kids and send a text here and there. um 00:07:33.860 --> 00:07:36.879 to see how they're doing but ultimately when 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:39.100 I'm at school I try to be as productive as possible 00:07:39.100 --> 00:07:42.519 so I can I can enhance my time to just be mom 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:46.240 when I get home so super productive at school 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:48.540 um as as much as I can there's good days and 00:07:48.540 --> 00:07:51.019 bad days of course but yeah but that's the goal 00:07:51.019 --> 00:07:55.279 and then when I get home the first really I try 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:57.879 and make it at least an hour sometimes it's longer 00:07:57.879 --> 00:08:00.990 but just a solid hour where I put down my phone, 00:08:01.110 --> 00:08:03.170 I put down everything, I'm sitting on the floor 00:08:03.170 --> 00:08:05.449 playing with my kids, just dedicating some time 00:08:05.449 --> 00:08:07.889 to them. And so it's kind of, it's something 00:08:07.889 --> 00:08:09.610 that I definitely look forward to every day and 00:08:09.610 --> 00:08:11.310 something they look forward to every day too. 00:08:11.410 --> 00:08:13.949 It's just, ah, mom's home and we hang out for 00:08:13.949 --> 00:08:18.209 a little bit. I also kind of mesh in some mom 00:08:18.209 --> 00:08:20.589 responsibilities here and start some laundry 00:08:20.589 --> 00:08:23.930 and stuff like that. But you know, just the essentials 00:08:23.930 --> 00:08:26.910 of life. But I do try and make that a special 00:08:26.910 --> 00:08:30.160 time for them. And then, like I said, that's 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:32.940 usually like an hour or so. And then it's study 00:08:32.940 --> 00:08:36.220 time. And something that I have to be really 00:08:36.220 --> 00:08:38.659 disciplined with is I don't go in another room 00:08:38.659 --> 00:08:41.120 and study because I just feel a little bit too 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:43.580 much mom guilt with that. I feel like it'd be 00:08:43.580 --> 00:08:46.440 like me leaving all over again. So I actually, 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:48.879 I have my desk in the living room and I'm right 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:51.440 there with them as I study. And it's become this 00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:53.980 like beautiful thing because my little three 00:08:53.980 --> 00:08:56.750 -year -old he'll come up, especially when I have 00:08:56.750 --> 00:09:00.730 a microscopy image on my screen, and I'll be 00:09:00.730 --> 00:09:03.409 like, oh, mom, is that a germ? And he'll start 00:09:03.409 --> 00:09:05.289 talking about it. He'll be like, oh, so what 00:09:05.289 --> 00:09:09.090 happens if a germ gets in my eye? Or what happens 00:09:09.090 --> 00:09:12.409 if a germ gets in my toe? The most random questions. 00:09:12.789 --> 00:09:14.809 But it's this beautiful little moment for me 00:09:14.809 --> 00:09:17.610 to explain things to him in the simplest ways. 00:09:18.250 --> 00:09:22.049 And it's so fun to include him in my studying. 00:09:23.710 --> 00:09:26.950 And it helps me remember that he is not a distraction, 00:09:27.110 --> 00:09:30.549 but he's part of what I'm doing. So the goal 00:09:30.549 --> 00:09:32.809 has always been, like I said, to be a mom and 00:09:32.809 --> 00:09:35.710 a provider. So I'm doing it simultaneously. I'm 00:09:35.710 --> 00:09:38.230 not being a provider here and then being a mom 00:09:38.230 --> 00:09:41.429 here. It's happening at the same time. And that 00:09:41.429 --> 00:09:47.070 just solidifies that, just including him in my 00:09:47.070 --> 00:09:52.620 studies. And then at bedtime, I prioritize. their 00:09:52.620 --> 00:09:54.440 bedtime. I stop what I'm doing no matter what 00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:57.720 I'm doing and spend that time with them. That's 00:09:57.720 --> 00:10:00.379 like a non -negotiable for me and I'm a religious 00:10:00.379 --> 00:10:02.679 person so we read verse together every night. 00:10:02.679 --> 00:10:06.360 We pray together every night and that's just 00:10:06.360 --> 00:10:08.759 our non -negotiable time as a whole family. All 00:10:08.759 --> 00:10:10.960 four of us get together and do that every night. 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:13.960 So just it's it's honestly with little kids it 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:18.200 is little short high quality moments and that 00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:23.000 is absolutely balanceable in school. And it's 00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:28.659 just a little way to kind of just another way 00:10:28.659 --> 00:10:32.039 to include them in my day. And then, like I said, 00:10:32.059 --> 00:10:33.639 I always need to include a little bit of time 00:10:33.639 --> 00:10:36.940 for my husband. And most of the time, if the 00:10:36.940 --> 00:10:39.159 balance is struggling, this is what struggles 00:10:39.159 --> 00:10:42.279 the most. Like we make time for each other, but 00:10:42.279 --> 00:10:45.820 it's very simple. There's not elaborate date 00:10:45.820 --> 00:10:49.740 nights very often, but. Just time where we chit 00:10:49.740 --> 00:10:52.600 chat every night and check in on each other. 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:55.360 I try and make sure that he has time to go to 00:10:55.360 --> 00:10:59.620 the gym or he has time to go hang out with friends 00:10:59.620 --> 00:11:02.840 and just do things that help him feel like, you 00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:05.980 know, prioritized in my life because he is. He's 00:11:05.980 --> 00:11:08.220 the reason that I can be so successful. Like 00:11:08.220 --> 00:11:11.159 this being a mom in medicine is it takes a village. 00:11:11.340 --> 00:11:13.919 It really takes a huge support system. So he 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:17.159 is that for me. um along with my family but he 00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:19.820 is the primary like he's working from home right 00:11:19.820 --> 00:11:22.340 now so that I can go to school and and balance 00:11:22.340 --> 00:11:24.679 is watching the kids at the same time so he is 00:11:24.679 --> 00:11:27.440 absolutely amazing and I try and make sure that 00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:30.620 we um communicate well so he can get the time 00:11:30.620 --> 00:11:34.080 off that he needs to but but yeah it is a deeply 00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:37.059 fulfilling juggling act every single day and 00:11:37.059 --> 00:11:39.659 um as long as those four ingredients are really 00:11:39.659 --> 00:11:43.500 hit we're we have a recipe for success. Love 00:11:43.500 --> 00:11:48.799 it. So you have, along with this schedule that 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:51.600 you go through every day that is beautiful, you 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:53.720 mentioned that you create like little traditions 00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:58.440 and routines where they feel a priority. I think 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:00.379 I've seen before your Sundays are a little bit 00:12:00.379 --> 00:12:01.860 different, right? So can you tell us a little 00:12:01.860 --> 00:12:06.039 bit about that? Yes, absolutely. So one thing 00:12:06.039 --> 00:12:09.980 that I do is I take Sundays completely off. There's 00:12:09.980 --> 00:12:12.639 no studying happening. no schoolwork happening 00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:14.980 on Sundays. If something's due on a Sunday, I'm 00:12:14.980 --> 00:12:17.440 doing it Saturday or hopefully earlier than that. 00:12:17.700 --> 00:12:21.379 But I really schedule my time pretty strictly 00:12:21.379 --> 00:12:24.039 during the week so that Sunday can be just mom 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:28.899 all day. And it's been an essential part of that 00:12:28.899 --> 00:12:33.379 recipe for my kids and for myself. I think that 00:12:33.379 --> 00:12:35.840 everyone should do it. I don't know. It amazes 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:38.120 me that people can just go hard every single 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:41.490 day. But it's a great break for me mentally. 00:12:41.669 --> 00:12:45.450 And I do need to do laundry, and I need to do 00:12:45.450 --> 00:12:49.210 dishes. I need to be a mom. And so that's how 00:12:49.210 --> 00:12:51.649 I kind of structure my life. And it helps me 00:12:51.649 --> 00:12:54.629 on the days where I'm super unmotivated. We're 00:12:54.629 --> 00:12:56.129 starting to get to that point where when we get 00:12:56.129 --> 00:12:58.509 home, it's dark outside, and everyone's tired. 00:12:59.230 --> 00:13:02.450 And I know that, OK, I have my Sunday. So I'm 00:13:02.450 --> 00:13:05.429 going to work super hard right now. and I can 00:13:05.429 --> 00:13:08.590 get through this day. So it's motivating on multiple 00:13:08.590 --> 00:13:11.389 levels. But yeah, I make that day different. 00:13:11.470 --> 00:13:14.269 It's part of my faith observations as well. We 00:13:14.269 --> 00:13:17.409 go to church together. We pray together. It's 00:13:17.409 --> 00:13:19.870 just a beautiful day that we have to just be 00:13:19.870 --> 00:13:23.649 a family and prioritize that. And yeah, another 00:13:23.649 --> 00:13:26.769 little fun tradition that started kind of accidentally 00:13:26.769 --> 00:13:30.450 at first was when I started working out early 00:13:30.450 --> 00:13:34.669 in the morning, that kind of that kind of meant 00:13:34.669 --> 00:13:36.970 that I would not see my kids until after school. 00:13:37.309 --> 00:13:40.549 And I hated that at first because, you know, 00:13:40.549 --> 00:13:44.049 they're not awake that early. And I did not like 00:13:44.049 --> 00:13:47.970 that. Just from a mom guilt perspective. Well, 00:13:47.970 --> 00:13:52.929 sorry, perspective. I just felt like that was 00:13:52.929 --> 00:13:55.509 a really, really hard thing to do for me. So 00:13:55.509 --> 00:14:00.730 what I started doing was I left my kids in note 00:14:00.730 --> 00:14:02.960 one day. I left them a note on my whiteboard. 00:14:03.059 --> 00:14:06.220 I made it fun colors and when they woke up there 00:14:06.220 --> 00:14:08.100 was this my whiteboard's kind of big so they 00:14:08.100 --> 00:14:10.600 were like oh my gosh like look how cool and they're 00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:13.039 they don't read yet but my husband reads it to 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:15.419 him and sometimes I'll draw a little picture 00:14:15.419 --> 00:14:17.879 so they know more of what's going on in the message 00:14:17.879 --> 00:14:22.000 but I started writing these little notes and 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:24.480 they really responded well to them they loved 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:27.230 them. And so I started making it a little bit 00:14:27.230 --> 00:14:29.629 more than that. Some days it's still like, mom 00:14:29.629 --> 00:14:32.350 loves you and is thinking about you. But sometimes 00:14:32.350 --> 00:14:34.950 I leave them a secret agent mission while I'm 00:14:34.950 --> 00:14:38.690 gone. And I give them a task. And one time I 00:14:38.690 --> 00:14:42.370 said something about how I left them in charge 00:14:42.370 --> 00:14:45.070 of the kingdom. And they were the knights guarding 00:14:45.070 --> 00:14:49.049 the kingdom. And then I built a fort for them 00:14:49.049 --> 00:14:53.370 to play in. So they woke up to that. So just 00:14:53.370 --> 00:14:55.549 something really small that takes me like 10 00:14:55.549 --> 00:14:58.850 minutes to do in the morning that they kind of 00:14:58.850 --> 00:15:01.129 have a piece of me while I'm away and it gives 00:15:01.129 --> 00:15:04.370 them something to look forward to and something 00:15:04.370 --> 00:15:07.090 interactive all day long. Like when I have a 00:15:07.090 --> 00:15:10.070 test, I'll trace my hand on the whiteboard and 00:15:10.070 --> 00:15:12.529 so they can give me good luck high fives. And 00:15:12.529 --> 00:15:14.470 my husband says that they'll go high five that 00:15:14.470 --> 00:15:16.610 whiteboard a bunch of times throughout the day. 00:15:16.629 --> 00:15:19.929 So it's just this little fun thing that we do. 00:15:21.319 --> 00:15:25.259 that helps me more than them, probably, because 00:15:25.259 --> 00:15:27.159 I just feel like they know that I'm thinking 00:15:27.159 --> 00:15:30.320 about them. And then, of course, during long 00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:34.320 days, I always call them during lunch and chit 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:36.580 chat with them a little bit. They love FaceTiming 00:15:36.580 --> 00:15:40.840 and seeing my school. And then I dedicate a little 00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:43.639 bit more time if needed to that after school 00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:46.980 time if the day is really long. So I just want 00:15:46.980 --> 00:15:49.980 them to feel loved and that's my primary goal 00:15:49.980 --> 00:15:52.820 and I want them to feel that love in my absence 00:15:52.820 --> 00:15:55.399 and in my presence. And so those are some things, 00:15:55.399 --> 00:15:58.240 yeah, that I try and do to help them feel like 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:01.519 a priority. I love it. So switching over a little 00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:04.480 bit from mom to medicine, you've been working 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:06.919 on policy reform since your master's, your first 00:16:06.919 --> 00:16:10.740 master's program, and you have found that only 00:16:10.740 --> 00:16:13.539 about a quarter of medical schools even have 00:16:13.539 --> 00:16:19.000 a paternal leave, parental leave policy. What 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:21.480 is it like to uncover that gap and kind of what 00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:23.940 emotions and realizations do that spark for you? 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:28.649 Yeah, so I found out that I was pregnant four 00:16:28.649 --> 00:16:31.690 days after I got accepted into my program. So 00:16:31.690 --> 00:16:35.110 I was like, okay, I'm doing this program. I just 00:16:35.110 --> 00:16:37.009 found out that a little a little boy is going 00:16:37.009 --> 00:16:40.850 to be joining us. And I want to know all my options. 00:16:40.889 --> 00:16:43.309 So I started scouring the website. I was looking 00:16:43.309 --> 00:16:45.590 everywhere. You know, I already knew what my 00:16:45.590 --> 00:16:47.690 program was. I already knew the school. I was 00:16:47.690 --> 00:16:51.490 trying to just find where my options were basically. 00:16:51.929 --> 00:16:54.379 And I was looking everywhere, and I couldn't 00:16:54.379 --> 00:16:57.000 find anything. And I was like, this has got to 00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:59.379 be user error. Like, I can't find anything about 00:16:59.379 --> 00:17:07.160 this. So it led to me having to... I was so intimidated 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:11.440 to do this, but I had to confide in my program 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:14.079 director super, super early that I was pregnant 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:17.000 because I could not find my options. And even 00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:18.660 though I wasn't really ready to tell them, I 00:17:18.660 --> 00:17:20.950 was a brand new student, I didn't... You're never 00:17:20.950 --> 00:17:22.769 really sure what first impression that's going 00:17:22.769 --> 00:17:25.690 to leave somebody. So I was really nervous just 00:17:25.690 --> 00:17:27.710 tell them that, but I also needed to plan my 00:17:27.710 --> 00:17:32.509 life a little bit. So I had to confide in my 00:17:32.509 --> 00:17:34.769 program director and tell them that I was pregnant 00:17:34.769 --> 00:17:38.589 in order to say like, hey, there's no policy. 00:17:38.750 --> 00:17:41.670 And I can't find it, is what I was saying. So 00:17:41.670 --> 00:17:44.009 I actually met with him in person. and we had 00:17:44.009 --> 00:17:46.789 this discussion. I said, I'm pregnant and I need 00:17:46.789 --> 00:17:48.809 to know what my options are because this is when 00:17:48.809 --> 00:17:53.369 I'm due and I got it. And his response to me 00:17:53.369 --> 00:17:57.490 was, oh, I don't think we have one. And I was 00:17:57.490 --> 00:18:00.730 like, oh, what? What do you mean you don't have 00:18:00.730 --> 00:18:02.750 one? Like, this is a 20 -year -old school. Like, 00:18:02.769 --> 00:18:05.849 what do you mean? So I was a little bit dumbfounded 00:18:05.849 --> 00:18:11.650 that they didn't have one at all. And so I was 00:18:11.650 --> 00:18:13.250 like right then and there I was like well can 00:18:13.250 --> 00:18:15.509 I write one can we like get the ball rolling 00:18:15.509 --> 00:18:17.990 like maybe we can have this in place by the next 00:18:17.990 --> 00:18:20.349 student catalog and that'll be perfect timing 00:18:20.349 --> 00:18:25.069 for when the baby comes out um and he he didn't 00:18:25.069 --> 00:18:26.609 have a problem with that he was like sure write 00:18:26.609 --> 00:18:30.369 one up and we'll see what we can do um so that 00:18:30.369 --> 00:18:32.710 led me to doing research at home I started looking 00:18:32.710 --> 00:18:35.210 online to get an example of like other schools 00:18:35.210 --> 00:18:37.900 maternity policies right and then I was scouring 00:18:37.900 --> 00:18:39.920 their websites and scouring other websites and 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:43.220 I couldn't find anything. So then I turned to 00:18:43.220 --> 00:18:46.680 like PubMed and stuff like that and found that 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:49.559 number, that 25 % of medical schools in the country 00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:53.900 have a maternity policy. And the number really 00:18:53.900 --> 00:18:58.119 actually decreases to about 16 % when you exclude 00:18:58.119 --> 00:19:02.960 the maternity policies that are specific to employees 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:06.700 of that university. So a lot of that 25 % even 00:19:06.700 --> 00:19:12.000 includes just employee policy. So this was, ultimately 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:15.400 I was appalled. I, you know, all these schools 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:17.960 claim to be protected by Title IX, which states 00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:21.440 that you must provide the medically necessary 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:26.039 time off following childbirth. However, most 00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:30.420 schools just have a full year leave of absence 00:19:30.420 --> 00:19:35.279 option. So you're facing delays in graduation. 00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:39.140 You're facing loss of loan grace period. It's 00:19:39.140 --> 00:19:41.400 just a big deal. And when we're on a super long 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:43.519 path to medicine, we don't really want to take 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:47.900 an entire year to not be moving forward and progressing 00:19:47.900 --> 00:19:51.079 in that super long path. So I think that turns 00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:53.180 a lot of women away from having children in the 00:19:53.180 --> 00:19:58.079 first place. But for me, I was just kind of... 00:19:58.250 --> 00:20:00.549 I just couldn't really believe that this is what 00:20:00.549 --> 00:20:02.549 was happening because we claim to be protected 00:20:02.549 --> 00:20:05.910 by Title IX, but we're actually really not unless 00:20:05.910 --> 00:20:11.470 we take it that full year. So yeah, I just feel 00:20:11.470 --> 00:20:15.549 like this is crazy because in medical school, 00:20:16.250 --> 00:20:19.750 the prime reproductive age is the age of all 00:20:19.750 --> 00:20:22.970 the people there. So I just am shocked that they 00:20:22.970 --> 00:20:26.900 don't have a maternity policy more. that's not 00:20:26.900 --> 00:20:29.819 more popular in medical education, but unfortunately 00:20:29.819 --> 00:20:34.559 it's just not. So when you did your research 00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:38.039 and eventually proposed your own policy and began 00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:40.440 advocating for this reform, what kind of challenges 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:43.140 or resistance did you encounter and how did you 00:20:43.140 --> 00:20:46.140 stay motivated through all these, we'll get to 00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:49.700 it or push aside kind of moments? Yeah, there 00:20:49.700 --> 00:20:52.460 was a lot of those. Still is, unfortunately. 00:20:54.220 --> 00:20:56.759 I, when I had this conversation with my program 00:20:56.759 --> 00:20:58.900 director and concluded, you know, that I was 00:20:58.900 --> 00:21:01.640 going to write my own and give it to him, it 00:21:01.640 --> 00:21:03.859 only took me really a few days. After I had done 00:21:03.859 --> 00:21:06.880 some research and drafted that policy, I sent 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:09.539 it in right away. I try and be proactive with 00:21:09.539 --> 00:21:12.440 that kind of thing. And I was also pregnant. 00:21:12.519 --> 00:21:14.680 So I was like, let's get this ball rolling because 00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:16.799 this baby is coming, whether or not this policy 00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:21.759 comes. So I put it in right away and I was really 00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:24.619 expecting this Couple month long conversation 00:21:24.619 --> 00:21:27.160 to happen. I was expecting to have it sent back 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:31.779 with edit critiques or advice or request to change 00:21:31.779 --> 00:21:34.019 wording. I was expecting this to go really back 00:21:34.019 --> 00:21:37.619 and forth, but it was kind of just radio silence. 00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:41.079 I sent it in and first of all, I didn't know 00:21:41.079 --> 00:21:44.079 who to directly sent it to send it to. My program 00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:45.900 director didn't either, but he said sent it to 00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:48.420 me and I will do what I can with it. And I do 00:21:48.420 --> 00:21:50.779 trust that he was, you know, had good intentions 00:21:50.779 --> 00:21:53.430 on getting it to. the places it needed to go. 00:21:54.250 --> 00:21:56.089 So I sent it in to him and then you know I'm 00:21:56.089 --> 00:21:59.789 also trying to be successful in school so unfortunately 00:21:59.789 --> 00:22:02.630 a couple months went by before I really heard 00:22:02.630 --> 00:22:07.250 anything and so I reached out to him and I was 00:22:07.250 --> 00:22:09.549 like hey like what's going on what are the updates 00:22:09.549 --> 00:22:13.509 for me and he responded and said oh I forgot 00:22:13.509 --> 00:22:17.960 to tell you at this point they The committee 00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:20.539 feels like there's enough framework in place 00:22:20.539 --> 00:22:23.299 and that it's not needed. So they threw it out. 00:22:23.500 --> 00:22:28.160 I was like, okay. So what is the framework? That 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:29.980 became the next conversation. I'm like, okay. 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:32.000 So I was looking everywhere on the website, knowing 00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:34.240 that I was pregnant and you're telling me that 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:36.720 there's already framework in place. So what? 00:22:38.959 --> 00:22:41.680 So I ended up having to meet, and my program 00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:43.319 director didn't know. That's where the conversation 00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:46.759 ended with him. He was like, sorry. So I reached 00:22:46.759 --> 00:22:49.839 out to ADA accommodations. I met with different 00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:52.140 program directors at my same university. I met 00:22:52.140 --> 00:22:54.559 with a bunch of people. And I was like, what 00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:56.940 are my options? Someone please tell me my options. 00:22:58.200 --> 00:23:01.359 And it ended up being that my ADA accommodations 00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:05.859 guy, he was... the one who was kind of in charge 00:23:05.859 --> 00:23:08.740 of pregnancy because it's considered a temporary 00:23:08.740 --> 00:23:12.619 disability when you're in school. So he was like, 00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:16.539 oh yeah, well send me in some information and 00:23:16.539 --> 00:23:19.420 I can get back to you. So I was like, okay, so 00:23:19.420 --> 00:23:23.079 I had to disclose some really personal information. 00:23:23.079 --> 00:23:25.220 I had to send him ultrasound images. I had to 00:23:25.220 --> 00:23:27.380 send doctors information. I had to sign a medical 00:23:27.380 --> 00:23:29.740 release. And I also had to give a conception 00:23:29.740 --> 00:23:32.559 date, which all of it just felt really crazy. 00:23:33.849 --> 00:23:37.109 Yeah, so I'm like, okay, this is my university 00:23:37.109 --> 00:23:40.329 where I'm, I was in a master's program to kind 00:23:40.329 --> 00:23:42.890 of help you get into your next program. That's 00:23:42.890 --> 00:23:45.269 kind of the main goal of it. And so a lot of 00:23:45.269 --> 00:23:47.509 the students go into DO after this, and a lot 00:23:47.509 --> 00:23:50.410 of the students go into PA. So my goal is still 00:23:50.410 --> 00:23:52.130 to move forward and get into the PA program. 00:23:52.170 --> 00:23:56.089 So I was really, really scared to kind of be 00:23:56.089 --> 00:23:59.890 annoying. and to say, you know, well, I'm pregnant. 00:23:59.930 --> 00:24:02.829 And so I need these rules in place. So it felt 00:24:02.829 --> 00:24:08.170 it was really, really hard. But yeah, I just 00:24:08.170 --> 00:24:11.710 I just had no one really to go to. And so so 00:24:11.710 --> 00:24:15.569 I went to him and he told me, oh, I after all 00:24:15.569 --> 00:24:18.130 this information was sent in, he told me, OK, 00:24:18.170 --> 00:24:21.289 so I think the policy is 10 days. I literally 00:24:21.289 --> 00:24:24.529 have that quoted in writing, I think. And so 00:24:24.529 --> 00:24:28.289 I said, okay, can I see it? Like, can I see this 00:24:28.289 --> 00:24:30.970 policy that everyone seemingly referring to, 00:24:30.990 --> 00:24:33.450 that the framework is, that I can't find anywhere? 00:24:33.769 --> 00:24:36.609 I just wanted to know so I could be sure. This 00:24:36.609 --> 00:24:39.470 was, you know, my second baby. And my first one, 00:24:39.470 --> 00:24:41.730 I had some complications. He was in the NICU. 00:24:41.849 --> 00:24:45.069 He came very, not very, but pretty early. So 00:24:45.069 --> 00:24:48.990 I was kind of, you know, trying to be very aware 00:24:48.990 --> 00:24:54.079 that this could happen again. So I... I wanted 00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:58.000 to be proactive about it and go off of the odd 00:24:58.000 --> 00:24:59.759 chance that he could be the NICU and I needed 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:03.720 to know my exact days. So I wanted to see the 00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:05.599 policy, but no one could give it to me. It was 00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:11.420 still just I think and word of mouth. And unfortunately 00:25:11.420 --> 00:25:14.619 for me, I just felt that it was too high of a 00:25:14.619 --> 00:25:19.460 risk. If I went into labor, also the policy was 00:25:19.460 --> 00:25:23.650 10 days from the start of labor. what he said. 00:25:24.029 --> 00:25:26.369 And with my first, I was in labor for three days 00:25:26.369 --> 00:25:28.029 because they were trying, they were, you know, 00:25:28.170 --> 00:25:29.690 giving me the FEDDP and all the things to try 00:25:29.690 --> 00:25:32.849 and stop it. So I was concerned with the timing 00:25:32.849 --> 00:25:35.349 and I felt a little bit defeated at this point. 00:25:35.369 --> 00:25:37.609 You know, they just thrown it out so fast and 00:25:37.609 --> 00:25:40.329 that was my only option. And time was running 00:25:40.329 --> 00:25:43.490 out for me. So I ended up having to take a full 00:25:43.490 --> 00:25:46.170 calendar year off of a 10 month master's program. 00:25:46.609 --> 00:25:49.309 And that was very discouraging and very hard. 00:25:49.670 --> 00:25:51.609 I really, really felt like I could have done 00:25:51.609 --> 00:25:56.579 it. but also because the timing of when I took 00:25:56.579 --> 00:25:59.940 leave, I had to completely start over. So I was 00:25:59.940 --> 00:26:02.980 not only fully paid for a semester that I got 00:26:02.980 --> 00:26:06.000 absolutely no credit for and acquiring the interest 00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:09.960 on that, but I was taking a break for a whole 00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:14.240 year from a 10 month program. And it was really, 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:18.480 really hard. But when I came back, I was so hungry 00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:21.910 for change. My school has a lactation room. So 00:26:21.910 --> 00:26:23.769 I would sit in there and pump for my son every 00:26:23.769 --> 00:26:27.069 single day. And I thought if enough women spoke 00:26:27.069 --> 00:26:30.430 up about needing a lactation room, then obviously 00:26:30.430 --> 00:26:33.329 they had to have given birth, right? So what 00:26:33.329 --> 00:26:36.789 is the deal? And I was super motivated. I was 00:26:36.789 --> 00:26:41.150 ready. So I actually ran for and was elected 00:26:41.150 --> 00:26:44.289 for a student senate position to represent my 00:26:44.289 --> 00:26:47.150 program. And this got my foot in the door with 00:26:47.150 --> 00:26:49.769 the dean. And I was meeting with him once or 00:26:49.769 --> 00:26:53.170 twice a month. because of this position. So after 00:26:53.170 --> 00:26:57.470 I was elected to it, I started bringing up that 00:26:57.470 --> 00:26:59.910 conversation again about the maternity policy. 00:27:00.349 --> 00:27:05.849 And this is when I felt a lot of pushback in 00:27:05.849 --> 00:27:08.349 person, like to my face for the first time, because 00:27:08.349 --> 00:27:10.730 it had all been very, very personal to me because 00:27:10.730 --> 00:27:13.569 I was pregnant at the beginning. So I think this 00:27:13.569 --> 00:27:16.049 time people were more like, oh, like Does this 00:27:16.049 --> 00:27:18.210 even apply to you if they didn't know my story? 00:27:18.549 --> 00:27:21.769 So I got a lot more push back to my face and 00:27:21.769 --> 00:27:23.589 that was a little bit hard for me. I'm not a 00:27:23.589 --> 00:27:26.670 super computational person, but I was very motivated 00:27:26.670 --> 00:27:30.289 and having been impacted by this so personally, 00:27:30.529 --> 00:27:33.829 I just felt like it was so necessary. So I continued 00:27:33.829 --> 00:27:36.150 to have conversations. I brought it up. I sent 00:27:36.150 --> 00:27:39.190 it to the dean. I met with him and presented 00:27:39.190 --> 00:27:42.630 it to him as well as presented him with a research 00:27:42.630 --> 00:27:46.710 paper that kind of showed the numbers of student 00:27:46.710 --> 00:27:49.670 satisfaction in universities that had maternity 00:27:49.670 --> 00:27:53.269 policies and versus universities that did not. 00:27:54.170 --> 00:27:59.079 And He was saying, okay, I'll bring this to the 00:27:59.079 --> 00:28:00.960 committee and that's pretty much all I can offer 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:05.539 you at this point. So just sit tight. And this 00:28:05.539 --> 00:28:07.960 committee that no one ever has told me what the 00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:09.799 title of this committee is or if it's the actual 00:28:09.799 --> 00:28:13.079 board or I don't know anything about it. But 00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:15.680 it's some mystery committee that he has been 00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:20.289 conversing with. that has not been able to provide 00:28:20.289 --> 00:28:23.329 a straight answer, yes or no, or provide any 00:28:23.329 --> 00:28:26.690 changes that I can do. And I told him, I'm super 00:28:26.690 --> 00:28:28.450 flexible. If there is something that needs to 00:28:28.450 --> 00:28:30.170 change about this policy that I've written up, 00:28:30.430 --> 00:28:33.109 which adheres to your 10 -day rule while also 00:28:33.109 --> 00:28:37.410 maintaining flexibility for Title IX requirements 00:28:37.410 --> 00:28:41.349 that we're already claiming to sustain, if there's 00:28:41.349 --> 00:28:43.069 something that I need to reword or something 00:28:43.069 --> 00:28:45.910 I can change, please tell me. I just want the 00:28:45.910 --> 00:28:48.880 women who are pregnant in this student body to 00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:52.819 find and access their options somewhere. Even 00:28:52.819 --> 00:28:55.000 if that stays with the 10 -day policy, I just 00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:57.940 think that it should be available to them so 00:28:57.940 --> 00:28:59.579 they don't have to go through all the hoops of 00:28:59.579 --> 00:29:02.119 sending in ultrasound pictures and all that information 00:29:02.119 --> 00:29:06.160 just to, you know, have some sort of information 00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:10.819 given to them. So yeah, so I just kept pursuing 00:29:10.819 --> 00:29:14.099 it. We kept having that conversation and there 00:29:14.099 --> 00:29:17.470 has been countless, we'll get to it moments, 00:29:17.769 --> 00:29:20.369 but I still have a fire under my feet and I'm 00:29:20.369 --> 00:29:24.250 hoping that through just kind of keep just keeping 00:29:24.250 --> 00:29:26.789 bugging them, hopefully that can eventually be 00:29:26.789 --> 00:29:31.450 enough. So you have said that your goal is not 00:29:31.450 --> 00:29:34.970 to just reform at the university, but in a broader 00:29:34.970 --> 00:29:38.470 national way. What steps do you see that are 00:29:38.470 --> 00:29:41.210 critical to achieving this and medical education 00:29:41.210 --> 00:29:47.670 around this parental leave? Yeah, so It's actually 00:29:47.670 --> 00:29:50.730 been really cool because since we met a lot of 00:29:50.730 --> 00:29:54.029 things have happened I have always wanted to 00:29:54.029 --> 00:29:59.329 take this to Beyond my school and with how my 00:29:59.329 --> 00:30:01.269 school is handling it and all the back -and -forth 00:30:01.269 --> 00:30:04.549 conversations and the lack of forward movement, 00:30:04.849 --> 00:30:07.430 I have felt like, okay, how can I get around 00:30:07.430 --> 00:30:10.789 my university and get my word out there? Because 00:30:10.789 --> 00:30:14.390 there's still that 25 % number and that 16 % 00:30:14.390 --> 00:30:18.750 number haunting me. So how can I get my ideas 00:30:18.750 --> 00:30:22.599 out there? And right now we're working on an 00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:25.460 abstract that we've submitted to a research conference 00:30:25.460 --> 00:30:28.940 in California. Hopefully that will make it through 00:30:28.940 --> 00:30:31.240 to just help get the word out a little bit more 00:30:31.240 --> 00:30:34.240 and be able to have a wider audience and expand 00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:37.079 some of the awareness to this issue. And I think 00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:39.420 that's going to be a huge issue because I have 00:30:39.420 --> 00:30:41.460 felt like I've been battling this by myself for 00:30:41.460 --> 00:30:43.839 two years. My son is about to turn two. I was 00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:46.650 pregnant. It's been over two years. And I have 00:30:46.650 --> 00:30:48.730 felt like I have been absolutely all by myself. 00:30:48.849 --> 00:30:51.730 But I know for a fact there are other women out 00:30:51.730 --> 00:30:54.910 there. I actually, after returning back to school 00:30:54.910 --> 00:30:57.750 with this fire under my feet, I had a friend 00:30:57.750 --> 00:30:59.869 who confided in me telling me that she was pregnant. 00:31:00.009 --> 00:31:03.849 And she was super inspired by my story and just 00:31:03.849 --> 00:31:07.130 felt like she could do it. So she proceeded and 00:31:07.130 --> 00:31:11.529 was pregnant. And after congratulating her and 00:31:11.529 --> 00:31:16.819 being so excited, I was nervous because I had 00:31:16.819 --> 00:31:20.460 received so much pushback for my situation. Ultimately, 00:31:20.460 --> 00:31:22.559 I ended up watching her go through a lot of the 00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:24.779 same things I did. She had to, you know, tell 00:31:24.779 --> 00:31:27.400 them the same information and give all that and 00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:29.519 sign the medical release and everything. And 00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:32.380 it's just it's just a lot that the system is 00:31:32.380 --> 00:31:38.160 just really kind of against us. But I was really 00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:43.119 upset when she messaged me and said, Well, this 00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:46.140 policy is officially inconsistent because I've 00:31:46.140 --> 00:31:49.579 been given five days. Oh my gosh. So right there 00:31:49.579 --> 00:31:52.359 I was like, okay, there is a big problem here. 00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:55.359 This is an issue. So I think awareness is the 00:31:55.359 --> 00:31:58.559 biggest thing that really needs to happen at 00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:00.380 this point so that I'm not fighting this alone 00:32:00.380 --> 00:32:03.140 because I'm definitely not. There are other girls 00:32:03.140 --> 00:32:05.339 who are fighting this seemingly alone wherever 00:32:05.339 --> 00:32:08.500 they are too. So I want to help get it out there. 00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:11.660 I've also started looking into other conferences 00:32:11.660 --> 00:32:13.839 we could potentially take it to if this one doesn't 00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:17.740 make it in. And then the next step would probably 00:32:17.740 --> 00:32:21.359 be a position paper to hopefully make some waves. 00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:25.240 Let's get this moving. Yeah, absolutely. So for 00:32:25.240 --> 00:32:27.480 students or trainees who want to start these 00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:30.799 families but feel impossible to do both, Me myself, 00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:32.880 I'm about to start residency and this is nerve 00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:35.240 -racking, right? Like, I'm like, I want babies, 00:32:35.299 --> 00:32:39.960 but I'm like, you know? What kind of advice and 00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:42.799 encouragement do you offer from your own journey? 00:32:44.119 --> 00:32:47.460 So it's so special to me because I'm like, yes, 00:32:47.559 --> 00:32:50.039 all the babies have all the babies. I want to 00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:52.779 be an OB -GYN. Like this is what I want to do. 00:32:53.740 --> 00:32:56.799 But ultimately it comes down to like, you are 00:32:56.799 --> 00:33:00.140 going to receive push back. You're going to, 00:33:00.140 --> 00:33:03.119 you know, have a lot of biases against you and 00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:05.619 be put into a little tiny box from the start 00:33:05.619 --> 00:33:09.099 if someone knows you're pregnant. And it's really, 00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:11.880 really hard. But ultimately, we know what we're 00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:15.140 capable of better than anybody else. We know 00:33:15.140 --> 00:33:18.599 what we're capable of. And I don't think a school 00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:21.019 should be telling you what you're capable of 00:33:21.019 --> 00:33:24.730 doing by putting that their rules on you. You 00:33:24.730 --> 00:33:26.930 know, we're paying to go to school and receive 00:33:26.930 --> 00:33:30.809 an education. So we should be able to make decisions 00:33:30.809 --> 00:33:34.049 in our personal life regardless. And it should 00:33:34.049 --> 00:33:37.170 be, it should be easier to me to have a baby 00:33:37.170 --> 00:33:39.329 when you're in medical education versus when 00:33:39.329 --> 00:33:42.529 you're being paid to do a service. I have always 00:33:42.529 --> 00:33:45.289 felt that way, but it's just not how it's designed 00:33:45.289 --> 00:33:49.730 right now. But really, we know what we're capable 00:33:49.730 --> 00:33:53.210 of. I knew the second I found out I was pregnant 00:33:53.210 --> 00:33:57.009 after, you know, four days after I'd gotten into 00:33:57.009 --> 00:33:59.630 my program, that I was like, well, this is, you 00:33:59.630 --> 00:34:02.130 know, this is what I want to do. This is who 00:34:02.130 --> 00:34:04.410 I am. Like, I'm okay with going to school pregnant 00:34:04.410 --> 00:34:05.910 because I'm either going to be pregnant at home 00:34:05.910 --> 00:34:09.710 or pregnant at school. So I just, I want that 00:34:09.710 --> 00:34:14.730 in my life. And I think that the... The motivation 00:34:14.730 --> 00:34:17.809 we feel to have children is so inherently maternal 00:34:17.809 --> 00:34:20.309 and it's such a part of that caregiver role for 00:34:20.309 --> 00:34:25.630 me that I want to explore that and I want to 00:34:25.630 --> 00:34:29.289 develop that nurturing and that empathy that 00:34:29.289 --> 00:34:30.909 comes with being a mother and be able to give 00:34:30.909 --> 00:34:35.969 that to my patients. So we know what we're capable 00:34:35.969 --> 00:34:38.489 of. We know what we can do and what we can manage. 00:34:38.809 --> 00:34:41.130 And if you feel like you can absolutely handle 00:34:41.130 --> 00:34:43.699 both, It's going to be scary. We're never going 00:34:43.699 --> 00:34:45.179 to know really what it looks like until we're 00:34:45.179 --> 00:34:49.820 there. But if you feel like you can do it, then 00:34:49.820 --> 00:34:53.519 by all means you can. And if I can do it, absolutely 00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:56.480 anyone in the world can. Because people look 00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:58.659 at me like I'm some sort of queen of organization. 00:34:58.739 --> 00:35:02.780 And I promise you, I am just doing my best this 00:35:02.780 --> 00:35:05.400 day. And I'll do my best tomorrow. And sometimes 00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:08.739 that's different day to day. But if it's my best, 00:35:08.820 --> 00:35:11.980 then that's what I'm giving that day. And I always 00:35:11.980 --> 00:35:17.019 say that you're not distracted by motherhood, 00:35:17.260 --> 00:35:20.300 you're driven by it. So my kids, I mentioned 00:35:20.300 --> 00:35:23.300 they are my why, they're everything to me. They 00:35:23.300 --> 00:35:26.880 have given me a perspective that is absolutely 00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:30.639 invaluable because I can see someone, even someone 00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:34.599 who's older than me, as somebody's child. someone's 00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:37.260 loved one and I can treat them as such because 00:35:37.260 --> 00:35:40.420 I know what it's like to give of all of yourself 00:35:40.420 --> 00:35:43.320 to a person despite what they're doing, despite 00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:47.800 their behavior, despite how close you are. You 00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:50.199 can love somebody and give them the care that 00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:52.539 they need and that they deserve no matter what 00:35:52.539 --> 00:35:54.260 because that's what you're trained to do as a 00:35:54.260 --> 00:35:57.139 mom. You're also trained, not really trained, 00:35:57.300 --> 00:36:01.019 but you develop the ability to show up no matter 00:36:01.019 --> 00:36:04.139 how exhausted you are. to be a caregiver 100 00:36:04.139 --> 00:36:09.780 % of the time. And to maintain your ambition 00:36:09.780 --> 00:36:11.760 and go to school at the exact same time is going 00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:14.659 to be, you know, not only develop you further 00:36:14.659 --> 00:36:18.099 as a person, but it will help your kids witness, 00:36:18.099 --> 00:36:21.440 you know, the strength and the perseverance that 00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:24.019 can come from doing multiple things at the same 00:36:24.019 --> 00:36:26.579 time, from chasing your dreams while you're raising 00:36:26.579 --> 00:36:30.179 them. It's just, it's beautiful. And I really 00:36:30.179 --> 00:36:33.659 feel like anyone who wants to have children during 00:36:33.659 --> 00:36:37.679 their medical education is already halfway there. 00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:43.579 Once you're having that desire, you already have 00:36:43.579 --> 00:36:46.239 the caregiving, the loving that's already coming 00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:50.840 up inside of you. But once you have the ability 00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:57.860 to actually nurture that baby and to... have 00:36:57.860 --> 00:37:00.619 that baby in your hands and you experience that 00:37:00.619 --> 00:37:04.000 moment of, wow, this is my greatest why, then 00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:06.079 everything else comes so much more naturally. 00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:09.960 You're able to see your patients in that perspective 00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:12.780 almost instantly because you're like, wow, someone 00:37:12.780 --> 00:37:15.300 loves them so much. No matter how they treat 00:37:15.300 --> 00:37:19.099 me, I am going to give my 100 % to them. And 00:37:19.099 --> 00:37:22.880 I don't think that your desire to nurture life 00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:26.750 diminishes your... So that's a wrap on this episode 00:37:26.750 --> 00:37:29.469 of Our Voices Our Future. We hope today's conversation 00:37:29.469 --> 00:37:31.949 inspired you, challenged you, and reminded you 00:37:31.949 --> 00:37:34.489 the power of raising your voice. The fight for 00:37:34.489 --> 00:37:37.050 equity doesn't stop here. Join us in the movement, 00:37:37.469 --> 00:37:39.130 subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and 00:37:39.130 --> 00:37:41.329 if you love this episode, share it with someone 00:37:41.329 --> 00:37:44.710 who wants to hear it, or needs to hear it. Until 00:37:44.710 --> 00:37:47.650 next time, stay bold, stay vocal, and keep the 00:37:47.650 --> 00:37:50.050 conversation going. This is Our Voices Our Future.