WEBVTT 00:00:11.009 --> 00:00:13.490 Welcome to Our Voices, Our Future, the podcast 00:00:13.490 --> 00:00:15.890 where we amplify the voices driving change and 00:00:15.890 --> 00:00:18.250 equity within medicine and beyond. Brought to 00:00:18.250 --> 00:00:20.469 you by the Gender Equity Task Force, a committee 00:00:20.469 --> 00:00:22.629 of the American Medical Women's Association. 00:00:23.050 --> 00:00:24.870 We're here to challenge norms, break barriers, 00:00:25.109 --> 00:00:27.609 and ignite conversations that matter. I'm Megan 00:00:27.609 --> 00:00:29.850 Etsy, and in each episode, we'll bring you candid 00:00:29.850 --> 00:00:32.289 discussions with leaders, change makers, and 00:00:32.289 --> 00:00:34.189 advocates working to create a more inclusive 00:00:34.189 --> 00:00:37.030 and just world. No more silence, no more waiting. 00:00:37.490 --> 00:00:39.609 You're listening to Our Voices, Our Future. Let's 00:00:39.609 --> 00:00:42.340 get into it. Today, I have the absolute pleasure 00:00:42.340 --> 00:00:44.259 of welcoming one of my best friends from medical 00:00:44.259 --> 00:00:47.719 school, Ida Manzar. Ida is a fourth year medical 00:00:47.719 --> 00:00:50.140 student at St. George's University School of 00:00:50.140 --> 00:00:52.740 Medicine with a deep passion for neurology and 00:00:52.740 --> 00:00:55.539 a dedication to making medicine more human -centered 00:00:55.539 --> 00:00:58.500 and accessible for all. Ida has a bachelor's 00:00:58.500 --> 00:01:00.859 degree in biomedical sciences from the University 00:01:00.859 --> 00:01:03.950 of Guelph. Through her platform, Dr. Mansour 00:01:03.950 --> 00:01:06.730 in the Making, Ida shares an authentic glimpse 00:01:06.730 --> 00:01:10.129 of life as a medical student, celebrating both 00:01:10.129 --> 00:01:12.209 the challenges and the triumphs of her journey. 00:01:12.829 --> 00:01:15.349 Her transparency and positivity have inspired 00:01:15.349 --> 00:01:17.969 countless future physicians to pursue medicine 00:01:17.969 --> 00:01:22.049 with resilience, curiosity, and compassion. Beyond 00:01:22.049 --> 00:01:24.469 her academic and clinical accomplishments, Ida 00:01:24.469 --> 00:01:27.230 brings empathy, creativity, and joy into every 00:01:27.230 --> 00:01:29.859 space she's in. Please join me in welcoming my 00:01:29.859 --> 00:01:32.379 dear friend and colleague, Ida. Thanks for being 00:01:32.379 --> 00:01:35.980 here. Thank you for having me. I'm blushing. 00:01:36.379 --> 00:01:40.900 Oh my goodness. What an introduction. So before 00:01:40.900 --> 00:01:44.000 we kind of dive in, can you tell us a little 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:46.120 bit more about yourself? What drew you to medicine? 00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:49.859 What these last four years have taught you or 00:01:49.859 --> 00:01:53.159 three and a half, you're almost, about becoming 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:56.569 a future physician? Yeah, for sure. First of 00:01:56.569 --> 00:01:59.810 all, thank you for having me again. So a little 00:01:59.810 --> 00:02:02.469 about myself. I was originally born and raised 00:02:02.469 --> 00:02:06.930 in Ontario, Canada. So go north. I went to, as 00:02:06.930 --> 00:02:10.069 you said before, I went to the undergrad at University 00:02:10.069 --> 00:02:13.069 of Guelph, where I majored in biomedical sciences 00:02:13.069 --> 00:02:16.900 with a minor in family. and child studies. And 00:02:16.900 --> 00:02:19.360 it's cliche, I know, but from a young age, I 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:21.340 kind of always knew I wanted to be a doctor. 00:02:21.740 --> 00:02:24.060 I would walk around my house with this plastic 00:02:24.060 --> 00:02:27.479 red briefcase that was all all messed up with 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:30.300 this yellow plastic stethoscope checking on everyone 00:02:30.300 --> 00:02:34.020 in my family. And as I grew up, and actually 00:02:34.020 --> 00:02:37.479 studied science, I found a deeper connection 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:40.500 to it. And I became more fascinated in what the 00:02:40.500 --> 00:02:44.520 human body was and how deeply intricate everything 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:49.039 was tied together. So from a young age, it really 00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:51.659 always did feel like it was my purpose, especially 00:02:51.659 --> 00:02:57.199 like because it meant helping people. And so 00:02:57.199 --> 00:02:59.300 falling in love with the science of it and with 00:02:59.300 --> 00:03:01.819 the people aspect of it, it just made sense. 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:05.560 And throughout my four years in medicine, oh, 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:08.180 my goodness, I've learned so much about myself 00:03:08.180 --> 00:03:11.770 so much. I feel like I've transformed into such 00:03:11.770 --> 00:03:14.169 a different person in all hopefully all the good 00:03:14.169 --> 00:03:18.889 ways um number one just like how much stress 00:03:18.889 --> 00:03:21.389 and pressure I could take I never thought like 00:03:21.389 --> 00:03:23.210 if you told me when I was younger I could like 00:03:23.210 --> 00:03:27.509 do any of this and like every year it got harder 00:03:27.509 --> 00:03:30.689 and every year we did it and so that was just 00:03:30.689 --> 00:03:34.009 crazy to see like oh wow like I do have this 00:03:34.009 --> 00:03:36.389 perseverance I do have this ability to adapt 00:03:36.389 --> 00:03:39.210 to new environments taking all of these different 00:03:39.210 --> 00:03:43.460 tests It was just, I don't know, it proved a 00:03:43.460 --> 00:03:45.879 lot about what I could do and what I could handle. 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:51.800 Yeah, I learned a lot. I learned how to adapt 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:54.400 in new environments with clinicals, how to change 00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:58.300 from every hospital, and just feeling out different 00:03:58.300 --> 00:04:01.240 environments and residents. And I feel like medicine 00:04:01.240 --> 00:04:04.520 is really just about adapting. And it's in all 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:07.020 the aspects, academically, clinically, everything. 00:04:07.479 --> 00:04:10.460 I feel like that's something as people who kind 00:04:10.460 --> 00:04:13.180 of mentor people who are going into medicine 00:04:13.180 --> 00:04:16.300 or going into clinicals, it's something you can't 00:04:16.300 --> 00:04:19.420 explain how much you change and adapt to be a 00:04:19.420 --> 00:04:24.360 medical student. I always say I'm a completely 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:27.500 different person than I was in undergrad. It's 00:04:27.500 --> 00:04:31.079 crazy. If I was me now in undergrad, it was over 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:33.779 for the MCAT. It was over for Ivy League school. 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:37.860 I was going there because I... in that caliber 00:04:37.860 --> 00:04:42.060 now, you know, but never ever was I that before. 00:04:42.199 --> 00:04:46.540 So it's so cool how we kind of get to see ourselves 00:04:46.540 --> 00:04:50.519 transform in medical school. And it's incredible. 00:04:52.420 --> 00:04:55.180 So talking about kind of transitioning into clinical 00:04:55.180 --> 00:05:00.620 rotations. How was it kind of as aspects of being 00:05:00.620 --> 00:05:02.459 a female medical student? Were there any things 00:05:02.459 --> 00:05:05.120 that like surprised you? Were there any like 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:07.079 juicy things that happened that we kind of talk 00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:09.439 about, the cliche things that don't actually 00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:12.720 happen? Like, how was that? Oh, for sure. So 00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:17.699 like going into clinical rotations was extremely 00:05:17.699 --> 00:05:19.779 nerve wracking for like many reasons. Number 00:05:19.779 --> 00:05:22.459 one, I had just moved to another new country. 00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:26.399 So I was in America for the first time. And although 00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:28.480 they are very similar in a lot of ways, it's 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:30.800 still a culture shock, especially on the East 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:34.819 Coast, people are a little bit more harsh. So 00:05:34.819 --> 00:05:37.779 my little Canadian self wasn't used to that. 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:40.879 But in terms of like the hospitals and what to 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:43.000 expect, it was just like, we kind of just got 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:48.850 thrown in. So it was scary, but I think like 00:05:48.850 --> 00:05:52.209 on the island, I found the SGU students and that 00:05:52.209 --> 00:05:55.129 gave me like peace. Like seeing people who like, 00:05:55.410 --> 00:05:57.850 I didn't even know, but just them saying, oh, 00:05:57.930 --> 00:06:00.490 we're SGU. Like it kind of felt like home in 00:06:00.490 --> 00:06:05.230 a way. And the older students are always so like 00:06:05.230 --> 00:06:07.069 helpful and giving advice. And that's something 00:06:07.069 --> 00:06:09.509 I always appreciated about our school. Like people 00:06:09.509 --> 00:06:12.279 talk a lot of. a lot of things about our school 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:15.459 but one thing that I always appreciated was like 00:06:15.459 --> 00:06:19.300 we're always willing to help those always like 00:06:19.300 --> 00:06:21.980 above us below us anything like if they needed 00:06:21.980 --> 00:06:24.360 help we're there we're gonna give you advice 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:27.480 we want to see you win and you don't get that 00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:29.120 in a lot of medical students you always hear 00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:31.819 the cutthroat stereotypes and everything like 00:06:31.819 --> 00:06:35.660 that and I don't know, with SGU students, I haven't 00:06:35.660 --> 00:06:38.720 seen it too much. It definitely exists, but I've 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:41.819 always gotten the help and assistance, and that 00:06:41.819 --> 00:06:46.420 made the transition a lot better. In terms of 00:06:46.420 --> 00:06:51.139 being a female student, I honestly didn't feel 00:06:51.139 --> 00:06:54.759 it in the first half of... third year. Like, 00:06:54.759 --> 00:06:57.379 I was surrounded by female residents, female 00:06:57.379 --> 00:07:00.279 med students, female attendings. So I was like, 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:03.980 oh, like, this is, this is so great. Where I 00:07:03.980 --> 00:07:07.259 started to feel that difference was in surgery. 00:07:07.620 --> 00:07:11.040 And we'll, we'll definitely get into that after. 00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:14.839 But just, I realized all the attendings were 00:07:14.839 --> 00:07:20.160 male. And it just like, I don't know, I just 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:23.740 noticed that difference. even if it was a quiet 00:07:23.740 --> 00:07:26.399 one, there was microaggressions, there was a 00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:29.839 lot less females, there was more comments on 00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:33.439 your appearance than there were the male colleagues, 00:07:33.779 --> 00:07:36.540 so things like that. Interesting, I've never 00:07:36.540 --> 00:07:38.360 really thought about the comments on experience, 00:07:38.660 --> 00:07:42.000 but when I spent an evening at the ICU one night, 00:07:42.620 --> 00:07:46.100 and one of the male residents, I had my hair 00:07:46.100 --> 00:07:48.949 back in a clip. but it was like in a ponytail 00:07:48.949 --> 00:07:51.310 type. And he was like, why would you come to 00:07:51.310 --> 00:07:53.569 clinicals with your hair like that? Like that's 00:07:53.569 --> 00:07:55.589 not appropriate. Like it needed to be tied back 00:07:55.589 --> 00:07:58.069 more. I wasn't even doing anything. Like if it 00:07:58.069 --> 00:08:00.189 was like I was in a sterile field or whatever, 00:08:00.209 --> 00:08:02.009 like I would wrap it up more. But I literally 00:08:02.009 --> 00:08:05.069 was just like shadowing and walking around and 00:08:05.069 --> 00:08:07.269 watching them talk to patients. So it's very 00:08:07.269 --> 00:08:09.149 interesting. I haven't really thought about like 00:08:09.149 --> 00:08:13.009 how people comment on the appearance of how you 00:08:13.009 --> 00:08:18.350 show up. Do you feel that being a woman in medicine 00:08:18.350 --> 00:08:20.750 has come with these certain expectations, whether 00:08:20.750 --> 00:08:23.750 it's like how we communicate, show our emotions, 00:08:23.850 --> 00:08:27.689 or like how we lead our way throughout rounds 00:08:27.689 --> 00:08:32.610 and on the wards? 100%. Like, I think broadly, 00:08:32.830 --> 00:08:35.289 yes. And then on top of that, obviously, you 00:08:35.289 --> 00:08:38.649 know me, I'm super outspoken and emotional. And 00:08:38.649 --> 00:08:41.889 like, you just can't do that. Like in medicine, 00:08:41.929 --> 00:08:43.690 and especially as a med student, like you're 00:08:43.690 --> 00:08:46.289 not there, you don't have like, you don't have 00:08:46.289 --> 00:08:48.769 the MD, you don't have the attending status to 00:08:48.769 --> 00:08:51.429 kind of like have an opinion, like, and that's 00:08:51.429 --> 00:08:53.350 just the truth of it. Like we want to believe 00:08:53.350 --> 00:08:55.649 we're equal and we're just not like there still 00:08:55.649 --> 00:08:59.309 is very much so that hierarchy in medicine. And 00:08:59.309 --> 00:09:03.009 you have to know your place. And women already 00:09:03.009 --> 00:09:05.970 get this title of being too emotional and too 00:09:05.970 --> 00:09:09.929 attached and too invested. So I definitely was 00:09:09.929 --> 00:09:14.190 aware of that I definitely was aware of who I 00:09:14.190 --> 00:09:17.690 was with when I was saying certain things. And 00:09:17.690 --> 00:09:19.929 yeah, and going back to the surgery rotation, 00:09:21.090 --> 00:09:25.210 it was so clear the gender roles. Like, for example, 00:09:25.450 --> 00:09:29.149 I was like the best in the suture practice, like 00:09:29.149 --> 00:09:33.490 I was doing it, and the surgeon who was teaching 00:09:33.490 --> 00:09:35.929 us was like, you have to ask to close and all 00:09:35.929 --> 00:09:38.529 this stuff, and they'll let you do it. There 00:09:38.529 --> 00:09:41.309 were so many times I asked to close in surgery 00:09:41.309 --> 00:09:44.610 and I was just told no. There was this one time 00:09:44.610 --> 00:09:47.830 I talked about on my Instagram where I was shadowing 00:09:47.830 --> 00:09:52.509 an anesthesiologist and I walked in and introduced 00:09:52.509 --> 00:09:54.490 myself to him and he's like, please don't tell 00:09:54.490 --> 00:09:56.690 me you're a med student. I hate med students 00:09:56.690 --> 00:10:00.649 with all seriousness. And I was just like, haha, 00:10:00.889 --> 00:10:05.309 like, what do I say to this? What am I supposed 00:10:05.309 --> 00:10:09.070 to say? And then I asked if like, they were having 00:10:09.070 --> 00:10:11.990 trouble putting in an IV and I asked if I could 00:10:11.990 --> 00:10:15.110 like help them. And they were like, are you, 00:10:15.110 --> 00:10:17.690 he was like, are you even allowed to touch patients? 00:10:19.149 --> 00:10:23.070 And it was just, yeah, it was just like, I kind 00:10:23.070 --> 00:10:25.529 of just laughed it off and played along because 00:10:25.529 --> 00:10:30.809 it was so awkward. And I'm like, yeah, we are 00:10:30.809 --> 00:10:32.730 allowed to touch patients. Like, believe it or 00:10:32.730 --> 00:10:36.669 not. And on the flip side, my male colleague, 00:10:37.409 --> 00:10:41.509 who wasn't like, I don't know, I don't want to 00:10:41.509 --> 00:10:46.509 talk about competencies. But like, but just like 00:10:46.509 --> 00:10:49.649 this, this guy, he would just talk to surgeons 00:10:49.649 --> 00:10:53.850 about like golf or football or, or like lifting. 00:10:54.350 --> 00:10:56.710 And the first surgery he was ever in, he closed 00:10:56.710 --> 00:11:00.250 all the suture ports. Oh my gosh. He just like 00:11:00.250 --> 00:11:04.090 got to got all of these opportunities and like 00:11:04.090 --> 00:11:06.509 would be invited to like hang out with the guy 00:11:06.509 --> 00:11:10.250 surgeons outside of work and it was just like 00:11:10.250 --> 00:11:12.649 that's when I started to see the difference. 00:11:13.669 --> 00:11:17.070 That is so wild to me. What is the wildest thing 00:11:17.070 --> 00:11:21.230 that I will never understand is these these doctors 00:11:21.230 --> 00:11:23.769 this anesthesiologist that looked at you and 00:11:23.769 --> 00:11:26.330 said are you allowed to touch patients was a 00:11:26.330 --> 00:11:29.610 med student before they know like why are we 00:11:29.610 --> 00:11:33.379 doing this? Exactly. If we were in a different 00:11:33.379 --> 00:11:35.600 field and you didn't get what we went through, 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:38.139 it would make sense, but you were literally here. 00:11:38.759 --> 00:11:42.639 Yeah. Let's make it better for the future. Exactly. 00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:44.879 And you know what's interesting is I was with 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:48.419 a female anesthesiologist the next day, and she 00:11:48.419 --> 00:11:52.740 let me hold the mask intubation. And it was just 00:11:52.740 --> 00:11:55.899 that difference was when I started to see, oh, 00:11:56.039 --> 00:11:58.960 there is still this disparity. And I think it 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:02.039 makes sense because surgery is still a very male 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:06.340 -dominated field. But yeah, that's definitely 00:12:06.340 --> 00:12:07.860 where I noticed it the most. And I would get 00:12:07.860 --> 00:12:10.100 frustrated because as a female, and I feel like 00:12:10.100 --> 00:12:12.480 you could relate to this too, we try to impress 00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:14.700 everyone with our knowledge. We have to know 00:12:14.700 --> 00:12:17.980 the most and know the procedure in and out. And 00:12:17.980 --> 00:12:20.620 we're ready to get pimped and ask these academic 00:12:20.620 --> 00:12:23.360 questions. But all you had to do is talk about 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:26.840 football, and that would get you in. Yeah, right. 00:12:26.940 --> 00:12:29.039 Like, I didn't need to show up and know the anatomy 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:33.000 of this whole surgery. If I knew their favorite 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:34.960 quarterback and could talk to them about that, 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:39.159 we would be good. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:41.779 We got to do better. We got to do better. Even 00:12:41.779 --> 00:12:45.639 if it is male dominated, like, the complexes 00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:48.039 are just, it's just so weird to me, you know? 00:12:48.259 --> 00:12:52.879 Yeah, it is. Can you share a time like on the 00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:55.940 counter when you have felt more empowered or 00:12:55.940 --> 00:12:58.399 supported as a woman in the clinical setting 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:01.840 and then maybe if you have another story of when 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:04.340 you felt like dismissed or underestimated in 00:13:04.340 --> 00:13:08.600 what you've been doing? Yeah, for sure. I felt 00:13:08.600 --> 00:13:11.620 like empowered I think the most during my internal 00:13:11.620 --> 00:13:17.000 medicine rotation and and there was this one 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:19.960 time in particular where we had a week of of 00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:23.139 like rounds with a team and I just kind of looked 00:13:23.139 --> 00:13:26.779 around and the attending was female and the residents 00:13:26.779 --> 00:13:29.860 were all female and it was all female med students 00:13:29.860 --> 00:13:32.879 so it was like literally an all -female team 00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:36.279 and I was just kind of like I had this like wow 00:13:36.279 --> 00:13:40.019 like we did it we got into the space that was 00:13:40.019 --> 00:13:43.120 like not allowed for us that we weren't supposed 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:45.820 to be in that everyone told us like medicine 00:13:45.820 --> 00:13:49.200 isn't for women or like women who want families 00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:51.899 or stuff like that and all of these people had 00:13:51.899 --> 00:13:55.320 those things and it was just very like full circle 00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:57.039 I remember taking a selfie with them and like 00:13:57.039 --> 00:14:03.970 guys we made it we did it I love that yeah Um, 00:14:04.629 --> 00:14:07.309 in terms of another time. Oh, I have stories 00:14:07.309 --> 00:14:12.850 for days. I think, I think one of like the huge 00:14:12.850 --> 00:14:18.490 shocks was OBGYN because it's, it's super like 00:14:18.490 --> 00:14:21.549 women forward that you'd expect the complete 00:14:21.549 --> 00:14:27.230 opposite. But it was just so hostile. And I know 00:14:27.230 --> 00:14:31.039 like before I did this rotation. Everyone told 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:34.220 me the stereotypes, and I'm like, all right, 00:14:34.379 --> 00:14:37.259 guys, it can't be that bad. I think we're just 00:14:37.259 --> 00:14:41.899 hating on women. No, no, no, no, no. At least 00:14:41.899 --> 00:14:45.820 where I went, they were telling the truth. The 00:14:45.820 --> 00:14:49.419 first day we got there, the first day we introduced 00:14:49.419 --> 00:14:53.480 ourselves or whatever, the midwife turns to her 00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:55.360 colleague and is like, oh great, now we're gonna 00:14:55.360 --> 00:14:59.500 have teenagers seeing our patients. And it's 00:14:59.500 --> 00:15:02.220 like, Miss Ma 'am, we're gonna be doctors next 00:15:02.220 --> 00:15:09.620 year. It's so interesting, the female -to -female 00:15:09.620 --> 00:15:13.440 dynamic. We recognize these things and we know 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:16.440 that we are put down in these settings. but then 00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:19.799 there's like still a complex between us and I 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:22.960 was getting interviewed last week by a residency 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:26.559 program and the guy who the assistant program 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:28.500 director that was interviewing me had like read 00:15:28.500 --> 00:15:31.019 my woman in medicine work and he was like I have 00:15:31.019 --> 00:15:33.240 a very interesting question for you though as 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:37.080 a man I have seen that like woman nurses and 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:39.960 woman doctors like they're they're mean to each 00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:42.940 other like why do you think that is and honestly 00:15:42.940 --> 00:15:47.120 I truly believe it's because like society has 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:49.379 put us in this position where we are in like 00:15:49.379 --> 00:15:51.899 a fight or flight mode and we think that we have 00:15:51.899 --> 00:15:55.460 to like not only like prove ourselves to men 00:15:55.460 --> 00:15:58.500 but like anybody that we see as in a position 00:15:58.500 --> 00:16:03.200 of power exactly that we have to like compensate 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:05.980 for that so I feel like in these situations where 00:16:05.980 --> 00:16:09.000 a midwife was like oh great now we have Pete 00:16:09.149 --> 00:16:12.110 teenagers taking care of our patients, it's probably 00:16:12.110 --> 00:16:14.389 because they feel threatened a little bit, you 00:16:14.389 --> 00:16:18.610 know? 100%. It's so weird. Like, why do we have 00:16:18.610 --> 00:16:20.490 to feel threatened by each other? Why can't we 00:16:20.490 --> 00:16:23.429 just have space for everyone? Yeah. Right. And 00:16:23.429 --> 00:16:25.509 you know what was so interesting with that rotation, 00:16:25.730 --> 00:16:28.389 too, is like, we had like two male attendings, 00:16:28.590 --> 00:16:31.909 and the nurses would eat them up. Like, they 00:16:31.909 --> 00:16:35.629 would make so much conversation and ha ha and 00:16:35.629 --> 00:16:40.299 laugh. And I was like, okay. The energy was completely 00:16:40.299 --> 00:16:42.080 different with the female attendings. They wouldn't 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:44.500 talk to them. They wouldn't speak to them. There 00:16:44.500 --> 00:16:49.720 was no cordial, casual conversation. All of us 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:53.620 were like, are we seeing this? This is odd. Yeah. 00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:56.659 Yeah. It's very interesting. I think it's so 00:16:56.659 --> 00:17:01.039 strange. Yeah. It's so sad. I feel like it could 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:04.380 be so much better. And I don't blame any woman 00:17:04.380 --> 00:17:08.059 for it. I think that it's really... how society 00:17:08.059 --> 00:17:10.660 has set us up to be defensive for ourselves. 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:14.319 Right, right. Can you talk a little bit about 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:17.420 mentorship, especially maybe any other women 00:17:17.420 --> 00:17:20.700 who have influenced you or your experience and 00:17:20.700 --> 00:17:24.039 how you think that still in some ways mentorship 00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:27.920 falls short for female medical students? Yeah, 00:17:28.059 --> 00:17:32.970 I like, you know me, I think mentorship in general 00:17:32.970 --> 00:17:36.529 is like such a powerful tool in medicine. Like, 00:17:36.970 --> 00:17:39.390 I think if you take that out, I think the whole 00:17:39.390 --> 00:17:43.630 thing would crumble. Because it's, it's a long 00:17:43.630 --> 00:17:46.750 and grueling journey. And as, as like grateful 00:17:46.750 --> 00:17:49.549 as we are to be here, like it's tough. And that's 00:17:49.549 --> 00:17:52.910 just what it is. And so without people guiding 00:17:52.910 --> 00:17:56.539 you without people supporting you. it just becomes 00:17:56.539 --> 00:17:59.380 so much more difficult and having those like 00:17:59.380 --> 00:18:02.099 I talked about before those upperclassmen who 00:18:02.099 --> 00:18:05.220 and people in the same year like you like I would 00:18:05.220 --> 00:18:07.740 consider you one of my mentors like I look up 00:18:07.740 --> 00:18:11.079 to you and how much you've done and I'm like 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:15.049 wow like we can do these things we can we can 00:18:15.049 --> 00:18:17.710 be part of clubs and be successful and have a 00:18:17.710 --> 00:18:20.289 family and have a love life and all of these 00:18:20.289 --> 00:18:23.549 things and still be successful, especially seeing 00:18:23.549 --> 00:18:26.210 women do that in medicine, which is something 00:18:26.210 --> 00:18:29.369 we were told like, you have to sacrifice one 00:18:29.369 --> 00:18:32.690 or the other to do it. I think that's so powerful 00:18:32.690 --> 00:18:36.569 to see. And the people who have always kind of 00:18:36.569 --> 00:18:40.380 given me advice is always women. Like when I 00:18:40.380 --> 00:18:42.859 was reading this, when I was reading this like 00:18:42.859 --> 00:18:45.460 prompt, I was like, you know, I realized that 00:18:45.460 --> 00:18:48.660 when I talk about mentorship, it's usually always 00:18:48.660 --> 00:18:52.619 women that offer their assistance and their advice. 00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:55.859 Yeah. That's like a real thing. We're actually 00:18:55.859 --> 00:18:58.779 writing a blog on that right now about how like 00:18:58.779 --> 00:19:02.240 women are more like socially and emotionally 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:04.819 extended because they are the ones who assume 00:19:04.819 --> 00:19:09.019 these roles. Absolutely. Nobody says that guys 00:19:09.019 --> 00:19:12.720 can't, men can't mentor me as well. I've had 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:16.220 a man mentor in my life and he was incredible, 00:19:16.339 --> 00:19:18.720 but I think that that's just not really a part 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:22.779 of the social norm usually. But it doesn't have 00:19:22.779 --> 00:19:27.619 to be like that. You talked a little bit about 00:19:27.619 --> 00:19:32.470 some... microaggressions that you've heard. Can 00:19:32.470 --> 00:19:34.410 you tell like how do you handle that? Like whether 00:19:34.410 --> 00:19:37.950 they came from your peers, patients, staff, and 00:19:37.950 --> 00:19:41.049 like what have those experiences taught you about 00:19:41.049 --> 00:19:44.750 how you need to like be with yourself and resilience 00:19:44.750 --> 00:19:48.490 in medicine? Yeah, I think we like touched on 00:19:48.490 --> 00:19:51.609 it a little bit for sure of like also knowing 00:19:51.609 --> 00:19:54.509 your role as a medical student. Like you will 00:19:54.509 --> 00:19:58.730 get mean nurses, mean doctors, mean patients, 00:19:58.829 --> 00:20:02.230 like that just comes with the territory of clinicals 00:20:02.230 --> 00:20:06.690 and being in the field. And as a medical student, 00:20:06.690 --> 00:20:09.509 I think you just got to swallow it. And like 00:20:09.509 --> 00:20:11.869 I said before, you know me, you know how hard 00:20:11.869 --> 00:20:16.490 that is. You know, I'm very like, don't put up 00:20:16.490 --> 00:20:20.430 with anything. But I think this field in specific 00:20:20.430 --> 00:20:23.349 taught me so much that like, you got to just 00:20:23.349 --> 00:20:27.869 let it roll off your back. You gotta smile, listen 00:20:27.869 --> 00:20:30.509 to what they say, okay, and that's it. Just don't 00:20:30.509 --> 00:20:32.410 say anything about it. Vent to your friends at 00:20:32.410 --> 00:20:35.009 home, vent to someone else, but in the hospital, 00:20:35.049 --> 00:20:38.890 in the professional setting, unfortunately, there's 00:20:38.890 --> 00:20:41.809 not much you can do. What do you think about 00:20:41.809 --> 00:20:46.009 in the future? Does that propel you to, as a 00:20:46.009 --> 00:20:48.890 future, and somebody who will be in a position 00:20:48.890 --> 00:20:51.769 of power in the future, does that motivate you 00:20:51.769 --> 00:20:55.430 to make some change later, though? For sure, 00:20:55.549 --> 00:21:01.230 for sure. Being an open space to actually let 00:21:01.230 --> 00:21:03.150 these students tell you if something's wrong 00:21:03.150 --> 00:21:05.430 and being able to be in a position of power to 00:21:05.430 --> 00:21:07.609 correct it. Absolutely, that's something I would 00:21:07.609 --> 00:21:10.990 want to do. I think one moment that just popped 00:21:10.990 --> 00:21:16.109 into my head is, again, in surgery. When we had 00:21:16.109 --> 00:21:19.509 one of the residents who was just giving us so 00:21:19.509 --> 00:21:22.660 much... microaggressions and kind of just aggressions 00:21:22.660 --> 00:21:26.619 period about being Caribbean med students. And 00:21:26.619 --> 00:21:29.920 we felt like so alienated and we're like, we're 00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:32.000 doing everything that you're asking us to do. 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:33.980 And you're still like calling us out in the group 00:21:33.980 --> 00:21:38.559 chat and like, like singling Caribbean students 00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:40.619 versus the Rutgers students that were also with 00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:46.200 us. And in that moment, like we had a really 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:50.069 good like leader, like the what are they called 00:21:50.069 --> 00:21:53.529 like the student coordinator who was like hey 00:21:53.529 --> 00:21:56.089 if there's anything like come to us come to us 00:21:56.089 --> 00:21:58.150 come to us and so we're all like oh like we could 00:21:58.150 --> 00:22:02.049 come to you and talk to you about it and we did 00:22:02.049 --> 00:22:08.910 and nothing came out of it like so so it's hard 00:22:08.910 --> 00:22:13.150 because what can you do also in that position 00:22:13.150 --> 00:22:15.630 like they went and talked to them and tried to 00:22:15.630 --> 00:22:18.109 like make sure they understood our requirements 00:22:18.109 --> 00:22:20.420 and stuff but that kind of doesn't change the 00:22:20.420 --> 00:22:22.819 fact that they're going to treat you how they 00:22:22.819 --> 00:22:26.519 want to treat you and that's what's tough and 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:30.200 I think it comes like the real issue the real 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:32.380 thing that needs to be addressed is like the 00:22:32.380 --> 00:22:37.180 culture of the program and who you pick and like 00:22:37.180 --> 00:22:39.119 you're in interview season and I've heard like 00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:42.180 a lot of program directors say like we want someone 00:22:42.180 --> 00:22:45.319 who is going to work well as a team because like 00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:49.720 medicine is very much a team sport yeah And obviously, 00:22:49.740 --> 00:22:51.640 you're going to get those people who don't do 00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:54.359 that. But I think now more than ever, programs 00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:57.500 are realizing the culture of their program matters. 00:22:58.079 --> 00:22:59.779 It matters how they're going to treat patients, 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:03.480 staff, nursing, med students. So I think that's 00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:06.319 the real root issue, is picking the right people. 00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:12.019 Yeah. Yeah, I love it. So having gone through 00:23:12.019 --> 00:23:15.119 medical school together, what role do you think? 00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:19.259 friendship and solidarity between women like 00:23:19.259 --> 00:23:23.000 not only like me and my mentors but like us together 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:28.000 um work in surviving through this surviving thriving 00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:30.359 getting through this crazy journey that we're 00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:35.160 going through 100 % like oh my gosh friendship 00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:40.819 like in medicine is huge, huge like I tell the 00:23:40.819 --> 00:23:43.119 like younger students who ask me stuff about 00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:45.079 like going into medicine I'm like no you need 00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:48.920 to go and find your people like that is the I 00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:51.180 oh my goodness on the island I would think about 00:23:51.180 --> 00:23:53.759 it all the time I'm like I would not have gone 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:56.619 through this without you guys like with with 00:23:56.619 --> 00:23:59.140 even like crying together studying together laughing 00:23:59.140 --> 00:24:01.480 together even things that weren't related to 00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:05.400 medicine It pushed me so hard. It made me want 00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:09.380 to be better. It made me just like look at each 00:24:09.380 --> 00:24:11.119 other and be like, wow, we're all going to do 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:13.960 this and we're all going to make it. And we have 00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:16.339 each other and that's like such a beautiful thing. 00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:20.099 And things even not related to medicine, like 00:24:20.099 --> 00:24:22.579 went after exams and we would go out to dinners 00:24:22.579 --> 00:24:24.900 and we would go to the beach and we would go 00:24:24.900 --> 00:24:26.940 to all of these like adventures. Like those are 00:24:26.940 --> 00:24:30.460 the memories that I will always remember. And 00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:33.099 i think that's just like crazy that i like look 00:24:33.099 --> 00:24:35.400 at you guys and i'm like damn like my friends 00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:39.339 are gonna be doctors yeah like oh my gosh yes 00:24:39.339 --> 00:24:41.480 coming from like a community that's not full 00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:44.440 of doctors like to know that like all of your 00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:46.680 people are gonna be doctors is the coolest thing 00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:49.259 to me and we're almost there like it's still 00:24:49.259 --> 00:24:52.099 so cool but we're like almost there as well it 00:24:52.099 --> 00:24:54.900 is it is and i'm like great now i'm gonna have 00:24:54.900 --> 00:25:02.099 like an iam doctor that i can call Exactly. It's 00:25:02.099 --> 00:25:04.759 just beautiful. Like friendship is so important. 00:25:05.059 --> 00:25:08.019 And it's like, because medicine is not just study, 00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:10.460 put your head down and you can do it. It's support. 00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:13.859 We knew, we knew so many people who were fantastic 00:25:13.859 --> 00:25:16.920 academically and they still left because they 00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:20.619 didn't have anyone to vent to, to be with, to 00:25:20.619 --> 00:25:23.579 hang out with. Support is so important and friendship 00:25:23.579 --> 00:25:29.740 is so important. often reflect on how nobody 00:25:29.740 --> 00:25:31.920 else in my life understands what we're going 00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:34.720 through other than each other. Absolutely. On 00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:36.680 the island, it was so great because we were all 00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:41.059 together and we had each other's support, like, 00:25:41.859 --> 00:25:43.960 at text. Like, if I texted you, you were coming 00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:47.200 over, right? Right. But then we came back to 00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:50.000 the States and we all dispersed, and it was never 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:53.240 so clear to me, like, how much I needed that 00:25:53.240 --> 00:25:58.740 support. Absolutely, 100%. And it's funny because 00:25:58.740 --> 00:26:00.180 we're like, oh, we're going to be in America 00:26:00.180 --> 00:26:01.759 and everything's going to be great and it's going 00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:04.880 to be fantastic. And then it's like, oh, we have 00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:07.839 all the things that we wanted, but not being 00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:12.680 in arm's length of each other is so lonely. It's 00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:17.750 very, very isolating. Absolutely. Yeah. So, to 00:26:17.750 --> 00:26:20.630 kind of just close, what advice would you give 00:26:20.630 --> 00:26:23.329 to younger women entering medicine, to those 00:26:23.329 --> 00:26:25.690 that might be nervous about the bias, these challenges, 00:26:26.089 --> 00:26:28.269 expectations, all these scary things we've been 00:26:28.269 --> 00:26:31.089 talking about? What's your advice to encourage 00:26:31.089 --> 00:26:33.430 them that life is still good and you can get 00:26:33.430 --> 00:26:40.150 through it? My advice to younger women entering 00:26:40.150 --> 00:26:43.869 medicine is that you can do it, you just have 00:26:43.869 --> 00:26:46.839 to block out the noise. Because you're gonna 00:26:46.839 --> 00:26:50.940 hear so much noise. You're gonna hear so many 00:26:50.940 --> 00:26:53.680 people telling you, like I hear this all the 00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:55.859 time, like medicine isn't for women. It's not 00:26:55.859 --> 00:26:58.359 for people who want families. It's not for people 00:26:58.359 --> 00:27:02.059 who want to spend time with their kids. And that's 00:27:02.059 --> 00:27:03.920 a scary thing to hear, especially if you are 00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:07.720 a woman who wants all of those things. But I'm 00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:10.380 here to tell you and Megan is here to tell you 00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:15.240 as proof that you can have a love life, you can 00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:17.700 have a family and you can still be successful 00:27:17.700 --> 00:27:21.619 and great at your job. Many of us are just scared 00:27:21.619 --> 00:27:24.660 of that balance. And like we talked about before, 00:27:24.839 --> 00:27:27.019 it's especially hard being a woman and trying 00:27:27.019 --> 00:27:30.220 to do that balance. But knowing that you're gonna 00:27:30.220 --> 00:27:33.259 be able to like provide financial security for 00:27:33.259 --> 00:27:35.940 you and your family, I think is like so huge. 00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:39.200 And that's like something people don't talk about 00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:41.420 enough about medicine, but even though you love 00:27:41.420 --> 00:27:43.839 it, and you should love it first and foremost, 00:27:44.420 --> 00:27:47.519 that job and financial security for you and the 00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:50.579 rest of your family is so huge. And to me, I 00:27:50.579 --> 00:27:53.119 think it's worth it, especially in today's society, 00:27:53.539 --> 00:27:57.200 especially with like, you don't know where the 00:27:57.200 --> 00:27:58.819 economy is going. You don't know where anything 00:27:58.819 --> 00:28:02.400 is going. Having those, like knowing you're going 00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:06.200 to finish this and have a job, that's huge. I 00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:08.339 think a lot of people don't talk about something 00:28:08.339 --> 00:28:12.519 that's come to fruition for me is Yeah, coming 00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:15.119 from a background that was not like super financially 00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:18.640 privileged, you have no idea sometimes how you're 00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:22.319 going to make it in the future being like a mom 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:25.900 who has like a crazy job. But once you have that 00:28:25.900 --> 00:28:28.319 sense of financial freedom as well, you understand 00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:31.359 like, I can pay a babysitter and it's going to 00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:34.420 be okay. I can order my groceries and it's going 00:28:34.420 --> 00:28:37.140 to be okay. You can compensate in different ways 00:28:37.140 --> 00:28:40.730 that aren't really imaginable until you kind 00:28:40.730 --> 00:28:42.769 of see that happening in somebody else's life. 00:28:42.809 --> 00:28:45.309 I think that's a great point. Yeah. Exactly. 00:28:45.490 --> 00:28:48.690 And it's just knowing that like, I can, I can 00:28:48.690 --> 00:28:51.349 be a great doctor, a great mom, a great provider, 00:28:51.349 --> 00:28:56.089 like all of those things. I think, and loving 00:28:56.089 --> 00:28:58.730 it, those, those just make it worth it to me. 00:28:58.730 --> 00:29:01.769 And I think if you really cannot see yourself 00:29:01.769 --> 00:29:05.150 doing anything but medicine as a woman or as 00:29:05.150 --> 00:29:09.069 anyone, do it, do it. It's, it's worth the sacrifice. 00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:12.079 Thank you, Ida. It's been a great conversation. 00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:14.779 It's been super cool to talk to you today and 00:29:14.779 --> 00:29:17.259 kind of hear your heart and how your journey 00:29:17.259 --> 00:29:21.299 has been throughout medical school so far. So 00:29:21.299 --> 00:29:23.380 that's a wrap on this episode of Our Voice is 00:29:23.380 --> 00:29:25.759 Our Future. We hope today's conversation inspired 00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:28.160 you, challenged you, and reminded you the power 00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:30.440 of raising your voice. The fight for equity doesn't 00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:33.039 stop here. Join us in the movement. Subscribe 00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:35.140 wherever you get your podcasts. And if you love 00:29:35.140 --> 00:29:36.960 this episode, share it with someone who needs 00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:39.799 to hear it. Until next time, stay bold, stay 00:29:39.799 --> 00:29:41.960 vocal, and keep the conversation going. This 00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:43.180 is Our Voice is Our Future.