Welcome to Our Voices, Our Future, the podcast
where we amplify the voices driving change and
equity within medicine and beyond. Brought to
you by the Gender Equity Task Force, a committee
of the American Medical Women's Association.
We're here to challenge norms, break barriers,
and ignite conversations that matter. I'm Megan
Etsy, and in each episode, we'll bring you candid
discussions with leaders, change makers, and
advocates working to create a more inclusive
and just world. No more silence, no more waiting.
You're listening to Our Voices, Our Future. Let's
get into it. Today, I have the absolute pleasure
of welcoming one of my best friends from medical
school, Ida Manzar. Ida is a fourth year medical
student at St. George's University School of
Medicine with a deep passion for neurology and
a dedication to making medicine more human -centered
and accessible for all. Ida has a bachelor's
degree in biomedical sciences from the University
of Guelph. Through her platform, Dr. Mansour
in the Making, Ida shares an authentic glimpse
of life as a medical student, celebrating both
the challenges and the triumphs of her journey.
Her transparency and positivity have inspired
countless future physicians to pursue medicine
with resilience, curiosity, and compassion. Beyond
her academic and clinical accomplishments, Ida
brings empathy, creativity, and joy into every
space she's in. Please join me in welcoming my
dear friend and colleague, Ida. Thanks for being
here. Thank you for having me. I'm blushing.
Oh my goodness. What an introduction. So before
we kind of dive in, can you tell us a little
bit more about yourself? What drew you to medicine?
What these last four years have taught you or
three and a half, you're almost, about becoming
a future physician? Yeah, for sure. First of
all, thank you for having me again. So a little
about myself. I was originally born and raised
in Ontario, Canada. So go north. I went to, as
you said before, I went to the undergrad at University
of Guelph, where I majored in biomedical sciences
with a minor in family. and child studies. And
it's cliche, I know, but from a young age, I
kind of always knew I wanted to be a doctor.
I would walk around my house with this plastic
red briefcase that was all all messed up with
this yellow plastic stethoscope checking on everyone
in my family. And as I grew up, and actually
studied science, I found a deeper connection
to it. And I became more fascinated in what the
human body was and how deeply intricate everything
was tied together. So from a young age, it really
always did feel like it was my purpose, especially
like because it meant helping people. And so
falling in love with the science of it and with
the people aspect of it, it just made sense.
And throughout my four years in medicine, oh,
my goodness, I've learned so much about myself
so much. I feel like I've transformed into such
a different person in all hopefully all the good
ways um number one just like how much stress
and pressure I could take I never thought like
if you told me when I was younger I could like
do any of this and like every year it got harder
and every year we did it and so that was just
crazy to see like oh wow like I do have this
perseverance I do have this ability to adapt
to new environments taking all of these different
tests It was just, I don't know, it proved a
lot about what I could do and what I could handle.
Yeah, I learned a lot. I learned how to adapt
in new environments with clinicals, how to change
from every hospital, and just feeling out different
environments and residents. And I feel like medicine
is really just about adapting. And it's in all
the aspects, academically, clinically, everything.
I feel like that's something as people who kind
of mentor people who are going into medicine
or going into clinicals, it's something you can't
explain how much you change and adapt to be a
medical student. I always say I'm a completely
different person than I was in undergrad. It's
crazy. If I was me now in undergrad, it was over
for the MCAT. It was over for Ivy League school.
I was going there because I... in that caliber
now, you know, but never ever was I that before.
So it's so cool how we kind of get to see ourselves
transform in medical school. And it's incredible.
So talking about kind of transitioning into clinical
rotations. How was it kind of as aspects of being
a female medical student? Were there any things
that like surprised you? Were there any like
juicy things that happened that we kind of talk
about, the cliche things that don't actually
happen? Like, how was that? Oh, for sure. So
like going into clinical rotations was extremely
nerve wracking for like many reasons. Number
one, I had just moved to another new country.
So I was in America for the first time. And although
they are very similar in a lot of ways, it's
still a culture shock, especially on the East
Coast, people are a little bit more harsh. So
my little Canadian self wasn't used to that.
But in terms of like the hospitals and what to
expect, it was just like, we kind of just got
thrown in. So it was scary, but I think like
on the island, I found the SGU students and that
gave me like peace. Like seeing people who like,
I didn't even know, but just them saying, oh,
we're SGU. Like it kind of felt like home in
a way. And the older students are always so like
helpful and giving advice. And that's something
I always appreciated about our school. Like people
talk a lot of. a lot of things about our school
but one thing that I always appreciated was like
we're always willing to help those always like
above us below us anything like if they needed
help we're there we're gonna give you advice
we want to see you win and you don't get that
in a lot of medical students you always hear
the cutthroat stereotypes and everything like
that and I don't know, with SGU students, I haven't
seen it too much. It definitely exists, but I've
always gotten the help and assistance, and that
made the transition a lot better. In terms of
being a female student, I honestly didn't feel
it in the first half of... third year. Like,
I was surrounded by female residents, female
med students, female attendings. So I was like,
oh, like, this is, this is so great. Where I
started to feel that difference was in surgery.
And we'll, we'll definitely get into that after.
But just, I realized all the attendings were
male. And it just like, I don't know, I just
noticed that difference. even if it was a quiet
one, there was microaggressions, there was a
lot less females, there was more comments on
your appearance than there were the male colleagues,
so things like that. Interesting, I've never
really thought about the comments on experience,
but when I spent an evening at the ICU one night,
and one of the male residents, I had my hair
back in a clip. but it was like in a ponytail
type. And he was like, why would you come to
clinicals with your hair like that? Like that's
not appropriate. Like it needed to be tied back
more. I wasn't even doing anything. Like if it
was like I was in a sterile field or whatever,
like I would wrap it up more. But I literally
was just like shadowing and walking around and
watching them talk to patients. So it's very
interesting. I haven't really thought about like
how people comment on the appearance of how you
show up. Do you feel that being a woman in medicine
has come with these certain expectations, whether
it's like how we communicate, show our emotions,
or like how we lead our way throughout rounds
and on the wards? 100%. Like, I think broadly,
yes. And then on top of that, obviously, you
know me, I'm super outspoken and emotional. And
like, you just can't do that. Like in medicine,
and especially as a med student, like you're
not there, you don't have like, you don't have
the MD, you don't have the attending status to
kind of like have an opinion, like, and that's
just the truth of it. Like we want to believe
we're equal and we're just not like there still
is very much so that hierarchy in medicine. And
you have to know your place. And women already
get this title of being too emotional and too
attached and too invested. So I definitely was
aware of that I definitely was aware of who I
was with when I was saying certain things. And
yeah, and going back to the surgery rotation,
it was so clear the gender roles. Like, for example,
I was like the best in the suture practice, like
I was doing it, and the surgeon who was teaching
us was like, you have to ask to close and all
this stuff, and they'll let you do it. There
were so many times I asked to close in surgery
and I was just told no. There was this one time
I talked about on my Instagram where I was shadowing
an anesthesiologist and I walked in and introduced
myself to him and he's like, please don't tell
me you're a med student. I hate med students
with all seriousness. And I was just like, haha,
like, what do I say to this? What am I supposed
to say? And then I asked if like, they were having
trouble putting in an IV and I asked if I could
like help them. And they were like, are you,
he was like, are you even allowed to touch patients?
And it was just, yeah, it was just like, I kind
of just laughed it off and played along because
it was so awkward. And I'm like, yeah, we are
allowed to touch patients. Like, believe it or
not. And on the flip side, my male colleague,
who wasn't like, I don't know, I don't want to
talk about competencies. But like, but just like
this, this guy, he would just talk to surgeons
about like golf or football or, or like lifting.
And the first surgery he was ever in, he closed
all the suture ports. Oh my gosh. He just like
got to got all of these opportunities and like
would be invited to like hang out with the guy
surgeons outside of work and it was just like
that's when I started to see the difference.
That is so wild to me. What is the wildest thing
that I will never understand is these these doctors
this anesthesiologist that looked at you and
said are you allowed to touch patients was a
med student before they know like why are we
doing this? Exactly. If we were in a different
field and you didn't get what we went through,
it would make sense, but you were literally here.
Yeah. Let's make it better for the future. Exactly.
And you know what's interesting is I was with
a female anesthesiologist the next day, and she
let me hold the mask intubation. And it was just
that difference was when I started to see, oh,
there is still this disparity. And I think it
makes sense because surgery is still a very male
-dominated field. But yeah, that's definitely
where I noticed it the most. And I would get
frustrated because as a female, and I feel like
you could relate to this too, we try to impress
everyone with our knowledge. We have to know
the most and know the procedure in and out. And
we're ready to get pimped and ask these academic
questions. But all you had to do is talk about
football, and that would get you in. Yeah, right.
Like, I didn't need to show up and know the anatomy
of this whole surgery. If I knew their favorite
quarterback and could talk to them about that,
we would be good. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
We got to do better. We got to do better. Even
if it is male dominated, like, the complexes
are just, it's just so weird to me, you know?
Yeah, it is. Can you share a time like on the
counter when you have felt more empowered or
supported as a woman in the clinical setting
and then maybe if you have another story of when
you felt like dismissed or underestimated in
what you've been doing? Yeah, for sure. I felt
like empowered I think the most during my internal
medicine rotation and and there was this one
time in particular where we had a week of of
like rounds with a team and I just kind of looked
around and the attending was female and the residents
were all female and it was all female med students
so it was like literally an all -female team
and I was just kind of like I had this like wow
like we did it we got into the space that was
like not allowed for us that we weren't supposed
to be in that everyone told us like medicine
isn't for women or like women who want families
or stuff like that and all of these people had
those things and it was just very like full circle
I remember taking a selfie with them and like
guys we made it we did it I love that yeah Um,
in terms of another time. Oh, I have stories
for days. I think, I think one of like the huge
shocks was OBGYN because it's, it's super like
women forward that you'd expect the complete
opposite. But it was just so hostile. And I know
like before I did this rotation. Everyone told
me the stereotypes, and I'm like, all right,
guys, it can't be that bad. I think we're just
hating on women. No, no, no, no, no. At least
where I went, they were telling the truth. The
first day we got there, the first day we introduced
ourselves or whatever, the midwife turns to her
colleague and is like, oh great, now we're gonna
have teenagers seeing our patients. And it's
like, Miss Ma 'am, we're gonna be doctors next
year. It's so interesting, the female -to -female
dynamic. We recognize these things and we know
that we are put down in these settings. but then
there's like still a complex between us and I
was getting interviewed last week by a residency
program and the guy who the assistant program
director that was interviewing me had like read
my woman in medicine work and he was like I have
a very interesting question for you though as
a man I have seen that like woman nurses and
woman doctors like they're they're mean to each
other like why do you think that is and honestly
I truly believe it's because like society has
put us in this position where we are in like
a fight or flight mode and we think that we have
to like not only like prove ourselves to men
but like anybody that we see as in a position
of power exactly that we have to like compensate
for that so I feel like in these situations where
a midwife was like oh great now we have Pete
teenagers taking care of our patients, it's probably
because they feel threatened a little bit, you
know? 100%. It's so weird. Like, why do we have
to feel threatened by each other? Why can't we
just have space for everyone? Yeah. Right. And
you know what was so interesting with that rotation,
too, is like, we had like two male attendings,
and the nurses would eat them up. Like, they
would make so much conversation and ha ha and
laugh. And I was like, okay. The energy was completely
different with the female attendings. They wouldn't
talk to them. They wouldn't speak to them. There
was no cordial, casual conversation. All of us
were like, are we seeing this? This is odd. Yeah.
Yeah. It's very interesting. I think it's so
strange. Yeah. It's so sad. I feel like it could
be so much better. And I don't blame any woman
for it. I think that it's really... how society
has set us up to be defensive for ourselves.
Right, right. Can you talk a little bit about
mentorship, especially maybe any other women
who have influenced you or your experience and
how you think that still in some ways mentorship
falls short for female medical students? Yeah,
I like, you know me, I think mentorship in general
is like such a powerful tool in medicine. Like,
I think if you take that out, I think the whole
thing would crumble. Because it's, it's a long
and grueling journey. And as, as like grateful
as we are to be here, like it's tough. And that's
just what it is. And so without people guiding
you without people supporting you. it just becomes
so much more difficult and having those like
I talked about before those upperclassmen who
and people in the same year like you like I would
consider you one of my mentors like I look up
to you and how much you've done and I'm like
wow like we can do these things we can we can
be part of clubs and be successful and have a
family and have a love life and all of these
things and still be successful, especially seeing
women do that in medicine, which is something
we were told like, you have to sacrifice one
or the other to do it. I think that's so powerful
to see. And the people who have always kind of
given me advice is always women. Like when I
was reading this, when I was reading this like
prompt, I was like, you know, I realized that
when I talk about mentorship, it's usually always
women that offer their assistance and their advice.
Yeah. That's like a real thing. We're actually
writing a blog on that right now about how like
women are more like socially and emotionally
extended because they are the ones who assume
these roles. Absolutely. Nobody says that guys
can't, men can't mentor me as well. I've had
a man mentor in my life and he was incredible,
but I think that that's just not really a part
of the social norm usually. But it doesn't have
to be like that. You talked a little bit about
some... microaggressions that you've heard. Can
you tell like how do you handle that? Like whether
they came from your peers, patients, staff, and
like what have those experiences taught you about
how you need to like be with yourself and resilience
in medicine? Yeah, I think we like touched on
it a little bit for sure of like also knowing
your role as a medical student. Like you will
get mean nurses, mean doctors, mean patients,
like that just comes with the territory of clinicals
and being in the field. And as a medical student,
I think you just got to swallow it. And like
I said before, you know me, you know how hard
that is. You know, I'm very like, don't put up
with anything. But I think this field in specific
taught me so much that like, you got to just
let it roll off your back. You gotta smile, listen
to what they say, okay, and that's it. Just don't
say anything about it. Vent to your friends at
home, vent to someone else, but in the hospital,
in the professional setting, unfortunately, there's
not much you can do. What do you think about
in the future? Does that propel you to, as a
future, and somebody who will be in a position
of power in the future, does that motivate you
to make some change later, though? For sure,
for sure. Being an open space to actually let
these students tell you if something's wrong
and being able to be in a position of power to
correct it. Absolutely, that's something I would
want to do. I think one moment that just popped
into my head is, again, in surgery. When we had
one of the residents who was just giving us so
much... microaggressions and kind of just aggressions
period about being Caribbean med students. And
we felt like so alienated and we're like, we're
doing everything that you're asking us to do.
And you're still like calling us out in the group
chat and like, like singling Caribbean students
versus the Rutgers students that were also with
us. And in that moment, like we had a really
good like leader, like the what are they called
like the student coordinator who was like hey
if there's anything like come to us come to us
come to us and so we're all like oh like we could
come to you and talk to you about it and we did
and nothing came out of it like so so it's hard
because what can you do also in that position
like they went and talked to them and tried to
like make sure they understood our requirements
and stuff but that kind of doesn't change the
fact that they're going to treat you how they
want to treat you and that's what's tough and
I think it comes like the real issue the real
thing that needs to be addressed is like the
culture of the program and who you pick and like
you're in interview season and I've heard like
a lot of program directors say like we want someone
who is going to work well as a team because like
medicine is very much a team sport yeah And obviously,
you're going to get those people who don't do
that. But I think now more than ever, programs
are realizing the culture of their program matters.
It matters how they're going to treat patients,
staff, nursing, med students. So I think that's
the real root issue, is picking the right people.
Yeah. Yeah, I love it. So having gone through
medical school together, what role do you think?
friendship and solidarity between women like
not only like me and my mentors but like us together
um work in surviving through this surviving thriving
getting through this crazy journey that we're
going through 100 % like oh my gosh friendship
like in medicine is huge, huge like I tell the
like younger students who ask me stuff about
like going into medicine I'm like no you need
to go and find your people like that is the I
oh my goodness on the island I would think about
it all the time I'm like I would not have gone
through this without you guys like with with
even like crying together studying together laughing
together even things that weren't related to
medicine It pushed me so hard. It made me want
to be better. It made me just like look at each
other and be like, wow, we're all going to do
this and we're all going to make it. And we have
each other and that's like such a beautiful thing.
And things even not related to medicine, like
went after exams and we would go out to dinners
and we would go to the beach and we would go
to all of these like adventures. Like those are
the memories that I will always remember. And
i think that's just like crazy that i like look
at you guys and i'm like damn like my friends
are gonna be doctors yeah like oh my gosh yes
coming from like a community that's not full
of doctors like to know that like all of your
people are gonna be doctors is the coolest thing
to me and we're almost there like it's still
so cool but we're like almost there as well it
is it is and i'm like great now i'm gonna have
like an iam doctor that i can call Exactly. It's
just beautiful. Like friendship is so important.
And it's like, because medicine is not just study,
put your head down and you can do it. It's support.
We knew, we knew so many people who were fantastic
academically and they still left because they
didn't have anyone to vent to, to be with, to
hang out with. Support is so important and friendship
is so important. often reflect on how nobody
else in my life understands what we're going
through other than each other. Absolutely. On
the island, it was so great because we were all
together and we had each other's support, like,
at text. Like, if I texted you, you were coming
over, right? Right. But then we came back to
the States and we all dispersed, and it was never
so clear to me, like, how much I needed that
support. Absolutely, 100%. And it's funny because
we're like, oh, we're going to be in America
and everything's going to be great and it's going
to be fantastic. And then it's like, oh, we have
all the things that we wanted, but not being
in arm's length of each other is so lonely. It's
very, very isolating. Absolutely. Yeah. So, to
kind of just close, what advice would you give
to younger women entering medicine, to those
that might be nervous about the bias, these challenges,
expectations, all these scary things we've been
talking about? What's your advice to encourage
them that life is still good and you can get
through it? My advice to younger women entering
medicine is that you can do it, you just have
to block out the noise. Because you're gonna
hear so much noise. You're gonna hear so many
people telling you, like I hear this all the
time, like medicine isn't for women. It's not
for people who want families. It's not for people
who want to spend time with their kids. And that's
a scary thing to hear, especially if you are
a woman who wants all of those things. But I'm
here to tell you and Megan is here to tell you
as proof that you can have a love life, you can
have a family and you can still be successful
and great at your job. Many of us are just scared
of that balance. And like we talked about before,
it's especially hard being a woman and trying
to do that balance. But knowing that you're gonna
be able to like provide financial security for
you and your family, I think is like so huge.
And that's like something people don't talk about
enough about medicine, but even though you love
it, and you should love it first and foremost,
that job and financial security for you and the
rest of your family is so huge. And to me, I
think it's worth it, especially in today's society,
especially with like, you don't know where the
economy is going. You don't know where anything
is going. Having those, like knowing you're going
to finish this and have a job, that's huge. I
think a lot of people don't talk about something
that's come to fruition for me is Yeah, coming
from a background that was not like super financially
privileged, you have no idea sometimes how you're
going to make it in the future being like a mom
who has like a crazy job. But once you have that
sense of financial freedom as well, you understand
like, I can pay a babysitter and it's going to
be okay. I can order my groceries and it's going
to be okay. You can compensate in different ways
that aren't really imaginable until you kind
of see that happening in somebody else's life.
I think that's a great point. Yeah. Exactly.
And it's just knowing that like, I can, I can
be a great doctor, a great mom, a great provider,
like all of those things. I think, and loving
it, those, those just make it worth it to me.
And I think if you really cannot see yourself
doing anything but medicine as a woman or as
anyone, do it, do it. It's, it's worth the sacrifice.
Thank you, Ida. It's been a great conversation.
It's been super cool to talk to you today and
kind of hear your heart and how your journey
has been throughout medical school so far. So
that's a wrap on this episode of Our Voice is
Our Future. We hope today's conversation inspired
you, challenged you, and reminded you the power
of raising your voice. The fight for equity doesn't
stop here. Join us in the movement. Subscribe
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to hear it. Until next time, stay bold, stay
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is Our Voice is Our Future.