WEBVTT 00:00:15.820 --> 00:00:18.480 Welcome to Our Voices Our Future, the pop apps 00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:20.940 where we amplify the voices driving change in 00:00:20.940 --> 00:00:24.079 gender equity, medicine, and beyond. Brought 00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:26.320 to you by the Gender Equity Task Force, a committee 00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:28.559 of the American Medical Women's Association, 00:00:29.059 --> 00:00:30.859 we're here to challenge norms, break barriers, 00:00:31.100 --> 00:00:33.780 and ignite conversations that matter. I'm Megan 00:00:33.780 --> 00:00:35.840 Epstein, and in each episode, we'll bring you 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:38.140 candid discussions with leaders, change makers, 00:00:38.259 --> 00:00:41.039 and advocates, working to create a more inclusive 00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:43.960 and just world. No more silence, no more waiting. 00:00:44.280 --> 00:00:47.960 Let's get to it. Today we're welcoming Dr. Roberta 00:00:47.960 --> 00:00:50.320 Gebhard, who is an inspiring leader, mentor, 00:00:50.500 --> 00:00:53.060 and lifelong advocate for gender equity in medicine. 00:00:53.420 --> 00:00:56.200 A family practice physician based in western 00:00:56.200 --> 00:00:59.000 New York, she founded the Amla Gender Equity 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:02.460 Task Force in 2010, paving the way for systemic 00:01:02.460 --> 00:01:05.920 change across the profession. As the past president 00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:07.920 of the American Medical Women's Association, 00:01:08.349 --> 00:01:11.569 As representative of the AMA Women's Physicians 00:01:11.569 --> 00:01:15.109 Section Governing Council from 2020 to 2024, 00:01:15.689 --> 00:01:17.950 and current AMWA Alternative Delegate to the 00:01:17.950 --> 00:01:21.349 AMA House of Delegates, Dr. Gebhardt has championed 00:01:21.349 --> 00:01:23.730 the voices of more than 100 ,000 women physicians 00:01:23.730 --> 00:01:26.569 nationwide. She serves on the Board of Directors 00:01:26.569 --> 00:01:29.370 for Physician Just Equity, providing compassionate 00:01:29.370 --> 00:01:31.849 peer support for physicians facing workplace 00:01:31.849 --> 00:01:35.290 inequities, and has been a dedicated member of 00:01:35.290 --> 00:01:37.909 the UB Jacobs School of Medicine Admissions Committee 00:01:37.909 --> 00:01:41.510 for over two decades. Dr. Gebhard's unwavering 00:01:41.510 --> 00:01:43.730 commitment, mentorship, and leadership continue 00:01:43.730 --> 00:01:46.290 to inspire generations of women physicians to 00:01:46.290 --> 00:01:49.170 advocate boldly and lead with purpose. Thanks 00:01:49.170 --> 00:01:51.829 for being here, Dr. Gebhard. Thank you for the 00:01:51.829 --> 00:01:55.010 introduction. Yeah, so can you just kind of start 00:01:55.010 --> 00:01:57.310 by sharing a bit about your journey, what inspired 00:01:57.310 --> 00:01:59.549 you to pursue not only medicine but eventually 00:01:59.549 --> 00:02:02.329 to become such a strong advocate for gender equity 00:02:02.329 --> 00:02:06.120 in the field? Sure. When I was really young, 00:02:06.420 --> 00:02:10.699 like kindergarten, I wanted to be a medical mission 00:02:10.699 --> 00:02:15.900 sister. So basically a doctor who sings also. 00:02:16.120 --> 00:02:19.840 So that was my goal when I first thought of kindergarten. 00:02:20.419 --> 00:02:23.539 Then I found about boys and that kind of blew 00:02:23.539 --> 00:02:28.039 that idea of becoming a physician. I always wanted 00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:30.180 to do that. And there's nobody in my family. 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:32.360 Actually, I'm the first person in my family to 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:36.020 graduate from college. My family was a doctor 00:02:36.020 --> 00:02:42.139 or had any professional training. But I just 00:02:42.139 --> 00:02:44.400 always wanted to be a doctor and somehow I made 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:49.219 it here. It was a lot of work. So I think what 00:02:49.219 --> 00:02:53.449 inspired me is mostly their well first of all 00:02:53.449 --> 00:02:55.030 my mother because she always told me that I could 00:02:55.030 --> 00:02:58.669 be whatever I wanted to so and secondly just 00:02:58.669 --> 00:03:02.250 you know going to doctors and in our in our community 00:03:02.250 --> 00:03:04.370 most of the doctors were foreign medical grads 00:03:04.370 --> 00:03:06.509 so a lot of them did not speak English so they 00:03:06.509 --> 00:03:09.949 were originally from that country and they would 00:03:09.949 --> 00:03:12.409 come here and because you know they were here 00:03:12.409 --> 00:03:16.009 under a visa they had to work in the rural areas 00:03:16.009 --> 00:03:18.889 so most of the doctors you know in my community 00:03:18.889 --> 00:03:21.430 were foreign medical graduates who didn't speak 00:03:21.430 --> 00:03:23.870 English very well, so it was very difficult to 00:03:23.870 --> 00:03:25.530 communicate with them and then I just thought 00:03:25.530 --> 00:03:27.569 that I could help along those lines for sure. 00:03:28.969 --> 00:03:31.469 Yeah, so I made it to medical school. I ended 00:03:31.469 --> 00:03:34.750 up applying the third time when I got in and 00:03:34.750 --> 00:03:36.930 I applied to osteopathic schools as well. I went 00:03:36.930 --> 00:03:41.710 into an osteopathic medical school and just managed 00:03:41.710 --> 00:03:45.349 to graduate in my residency and get done and 00:03:45.349 --> 00:03:49.300 practicing them in medicine. Can you tell us 00:03:49.300 --> 00:03:52.879 a little bit about what then had led you to become 00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:55.659 a strong advocate more in the gender equity part 00:03:55.659 --> 00:03:58.860 once you got into medicine and practicing? I 00:03:58.860 --> 00:04:00.860 just noticed that when I was working with other 00:04:00.860 --> 00:04:04.139 doctors, even as a medical student, that I was 00:04:04.139 --> 00:04:06.259 working with a doctor who shared an office with 00:04:06.259 --> 00:04:09.300 two male doctors. And she would, at the end of 00:04:09.300 --> 00:04:11.939 the day, she'd have a huge pile of messages to 00:04:11.939 --> 00:04:14.080 get back to. But the nursing staff would take 00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:17.259 care of it for the guys. So they would basically 00:04:17.259 --> 00:04:20.730 just be able to finish their. their office and 00:04:20.730 --> 00:04:22.689 be able to go home. But she had to answer all 00:04:22.689 --> 00:04:24.209 these questions at the end of the day. And I 00:04:24.209 --> 00:04:26.769 just didn't think that was very fair that they 00:04:26.769 --> 00:04:29.529 were helping the guys out, but not helping her. 00:04:30.310 --> 00:04:33.949 That was just one example. But generally, there 00:04:33.949 --> 00:04:36.829 were not a lot of women mentors when I was going 00:04:36.829 --> 00:04:40.379 through school. very few actually in the osteopathic 00:04:40.379 --> 00:04:42.100 medical schools at the time, but, you know, even 00:04:42.100 --> 00:04:45.480 I trained in allopathic programs and there just 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:48.920 wasn't a whole lot of mentors that, you know, 00:04:48.920 --> 00:04:52.680 could help you out. And just things that I experienced, 00:04:52.779 --> 00:04:56.399 you know, when I was training where, you know, 00:04:56.600 --> 00:04:58.480 the guys were always chosen and the women were 00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:02.139 not just, you know, sexual harassment sort of 00:05:02.139 --> 00:05:03.579 things. I remember when I was pregnant with my 00:05:03.579 --> 00:05:06.949 first child, I was working with orthopedic team. 00:05:07.350 --> 00:05:09.529 I was a medical student and literally they would 00:05:09.529 --> 00:05:11.730 all walk by and pat my belly on their way by 00:05:11.730 --> 00:05:14.189 and I just like just things that I didn't think 00:05:14.189 --> 00:05:17.810 were appropriate but you just kind of so I just 00:05:17.810 --> 00:05:20.009 made a decision that I wanted to change things. 00:05:21.149 --> 00:05:23.569 So moving forward a little bit can you kind of 00:05:23.569 --> 00:05:27.250 tell us what motivated you to found the gender 00:05:27.250 --> 00:05:30.870 equity task force back in 2010 and what were 00:05:30.870 --> 00:05:33.089 some of like the early challenges that you faced 00:05:33.089 --> 00:05:38.459 in getting all this started? Um, so, um, AMWA 00:05:38.459 --> 00:05:40.860 used to have a gender equity task force, but 00:05:40.860 --> 00:05:42.980 I just knew that it existed. I didn't really 00:05:42.980 --> 00:05:45.019 know anything about it at all, except for the, 00:05:45.019 --> 00:05:46.839 the only thing I knew about it is they had, they 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:49.459 had a dedicated line. So they would advertise 00:05:49.459 --> 00:05:52.100 it and, and somebody could just call that number 00:05:52.100 --> 00:05:54.920 and get help. That's all I knew about it. And 00:05:54.920 --> 00:05:57.980 I decided that I wanted to get that restarted 00:05:57.980 --> 00:06:00.579 and start, you know, so it had been years since 00:06:00.579 --> 00:06:04.019 they had been doing it. So actually, I had belonged 00:06:04.019 --> 00:06:05.959 to AMWA for like 20 years, and I don't believe 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:08.040 they did it at that point. And I don't believe 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:09.779 they had done it during the 20 years that I was 00:06:09.779 --> 00:06:12.500 involved. I just heard about it. So I had a friend. 00:06:13.700 --> 00:06:16.500 Joyce Brock, who encouraged me and supported 00:06:16.500 --> 00:06:18.360 me in doing that. And there was another woman. 00:06:18.860 --> 00:06:20.800 I cannot remember her last name. I'm sorry, but 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:23.000 her first name is Margaret. And so we were the 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:25.079 three attendings that got together and helped 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:27.199 start it. But basically, they just kind of supported 00:06:27.199 --> 00:06:28.879 me. And I went to the board and asked to get 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:32.639 it started. And they allowed me to do it. And 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:37.970 then we added Linda Brodsky, who was actually 00:06:37.970 --> 00:06:40.910 my co -chair. So there were four physicians and 00:06:40.910 --> 00:06:42.970 then I think we only had one medical student 00:06:42.970 --> 00:06:46.589 at the time. And so we basically just got started 00:06:46.589 --> 00:06:49.009 and we were meeting every week at the beginning 00:06:49.009 --> 00:06:51.029 and then every other week and you know as we 00:06:51.029 --> 00:06:54.269 got to know each other and then you know once 00:06:54.269 --> 00:06:58.129 a month after that. Some of the challenges were 00:06:58.129 --> 00:07:00.029 sometimes Linda and I would be the only ones 00:07:00.029 --> 00:07:02.110 that shared up for the meeting and so she would 00:07:02.110 --> 00:07:05.600 take notes and I would you know I would kind 00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:07.120 of run the meeting, even though it was just two 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:09.500 of us. And we actually were very productive people 00:07:09.500 --> 00:07:11.360 when there was only two of us. But it was hard 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:13.420 to get people to come to the meetings. And they 00:07:13.420 --> 00:07:15.040 always wanted to change it to a different day. 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:16.800 And every time we tried to change it to a different 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:19.329 day. for an individual person who said, I will 00:07:19.329 --> 00:07:21.230 definitely come, but I can only come on Tuesdays. 00:07:21.230 --> 00:07:22.569 So we changed it to Tuesdays, and they would 00:07:22.569 --> 00:07:25.170 never show up. So we just kind of kept going 00:07:25.170 --> 00:07:28.250 back to Fridays at five, because that's what 00:07:28.250 --> 00:07:29.870 worked out best for Linda and I. And we tried 00:07:29.870 --> 00:07:31.310 to change it one more time, and then we went 00:07:31.310 --> 00:07:34.269 back to Fridays at five. So we ended up changing 00:07:34.269 --> 00:07:36.629 it now to the first Tuesday of the month, because 00:07:36.629 --> 00:07:39.350 the co -chair at that time could make it at that 00:07:39.350 --> 00:07:41.350 time. And again, the same sort of thing, if you 00:07:41.350 --> 00:07:44.180 just didn't. come most of the time. But anyways, 00:07:44.300 --> 00:07:47.139 we just continued to meet. So that was one barrier, 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:51.220 one challenge that we faced was getting people 00:07:51.220 --> 00:07:55.459 to come and getting time that people could make 00:07:55.459 --> 00:07:59.439 it. But that was probably the main thing, and 00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:01.600 just getting people to get involved and actually 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:04.680 do things, which is not a problem at all right 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:08.850 now. But it was like, this is what. 15 years 00:08:08.850 --> 00:08:11.670 into it so it's taken a while to get you know 00:08:11.670 --> 00:08:13.670 to get it so that you know there are people that 00:08:13.670 --> 00:08:17.250 are involved and other people have ideas and 00:08:17.250 --> 00:08:21.230 um uh you know so it's i think it's very functional 00:08:21.230 --> 00:08:23.329 right now but it took a long time to get there 00:08:23.329 --> 00:08:26.009 yeah i think that's kind of cool to hear that 00:08:26.009 --> 00:08:28.589 story of it coming up because now just being 00:08:28.589 --> 00:08:31.910 here for the past year i see the tact force does 00:08:31.910 --> 00:08:35.389 a lot so those early years of only hearing about 00:08:35.389 --> 00:08:38.240 two people showing up is like crazy to me, because 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:42.220 it's so not that now, which is very cool. Well, 00:08:42.220 --> 00:08:44.639 the other the other challenge was, like, I kind 00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:47.639 of had to do everything. So like, I had the meetings 00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:49.240 and set up that we actually at the beginning, 00:08:49.259 --> 00:08:52.059 we just met on the phone. So I had to set up 00:08:52.059 --> 00:08:53.639 the meeting, the calls and the meetings and things 00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:56.019 like that. And that was hassle. And then like, 00:08:56.019 --> 00:08:57.720 at least Linda did the notes. So that's like 00:08:57.720 --> 00:08:59.159 my least favorite thing to do. So that worked. 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:02.879 But the, you know, having the challenge of, you 00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:05.159 know, having to set up the meetings myself and, 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:09.100 you know, That was the challenge as well. So 00:09:09.100 --> 00:09:13.480 yeah, can we kind of talk a little bit how it's 00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:16.120 evolved over the years and what are some of the 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:18.080 accomplishments of the Gender Equity Task Force 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:20.600 that you have kind of been most proud of in terms 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:24.059 of its either impact on policy or culture within 00:09:24.059 --> 00:09:26.200 medicine? Like what are kind of the things that 00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:28.399 we have attacked that you've been very proud 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:33.379 of? I think, you know, the research that we've 00:09:33.379 --> 00:09:36.399 done and the publications that we've done have 00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:38.580 been the things that I've been most proud of 00:09:38.580 --> 00:09:41.639 because that, you know, affects other people 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:43.820 and they read it and they hear about it and they 00:09:43.820 --> 00:09:47.860 can take our ideas and move on with them in their 00:09:47.860 --> 00:09:52.139 institutions. So I think that's been the most 00:09:52.139 --> 00:09:54.580 accomplishment that I've been most proud of. 00:09:56.720 --> 00:09:59.039 I was also involved with Time's Up Healthcare, 00:10:00.019 --> 00:10:07.139 and also as this is a nationwide group that worked 00:10:07.139 --> 00:10:11.559 on, and most what we did that worked was publications. 00:10:12.100 --> 00:10:13.960 So when we started doing that, we were kind of 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:16.120 doing publications with both, and I thought that 00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:20.500 that was really helpful. So talking a little 00:10:20.500 --> 00:10:25.000 more about Time's Up Healthcare and the AMA, 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:28.360 work that you have done. What have those collaborations 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:30.440 that you've kind of had throughout life taught 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:34.299 you about driving change more at that institutional 00:10:34.299 --> 00:10:41.259 level? So with the AMA, I was on the women physician 00:10:41.259 --> 00:10:44.000 section. So there were over 100 ,000 women physicians 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:46.620 in the AMA, and there were eight of us that represented 00:10:46.620 --> 00:10:51.860 those folks. The things that we did were very 00:10:51.860 --> 00:10:55.399 much like what we do in AMWA, but because AMWA 00:10:55.399 --> 00:10:59.200 started the AMA Women Physician Section, we are 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:01.120 the only organization that has a seat at their 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:04.919 table. So they have representatives from AMA, 00:11:05.059 --> 00:11:08.039 but they overall, and then they have some members 00:11:08.039 --> 00:11:10.740 at large, but we're the only ones that actually 00:11:10.740 --> 00:11:13.259 have a representative to that group from AMWA. 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:17.279 So that was very helpful. Times Up Healthcare 00:11:17.279 --> 00:11:20.600 was really exciting, and I've got some of my 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:22.519 best friends that I've met through that organization. 00:11:23.240 --> 00:11:29.000 Unfortunately, it ended prematurely, but it was 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:30.879 great to get, you know, there were publications 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:32.679 that we were involved in with people that we 00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:34.740 had met before, and we just worked together and 00:11:34.740 --> 00:11:36.840 got some things published. And that always changes 00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:38.100 things because people read it and they think, 00:11:38.100 --> 00:11:39.960 oh, this is a great idea. Let me move forward 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:42.820 with doing that in my institution, or just even 00:11:42.820 --> 00:11:48.379 the awareness that it exists. So I think, you 00:11:48.379 --> 00:11:51.059 know, driving change at the institutional level, 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:54.539 you actually get the idea from reading, you know, 00:11:54.700 --> 00:11:56.460 reading things and reading about the work that 00:11:56.460 --> 00:12:00.539 we've done. I thought was very helpful. So looking 00:12:00.539 --> 00:12:03.519 at yourself more holistically and just you and 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:05.139 less the work that you've done with these different 00:12:05.139 --> 00:12:07.679 organizations. Can you tell us a little bit how 00:12:07.789 --> 00:12:09.929 mentorship, this mentorship that you saw when 00:12:09.929 --> 00:12:12.809 you first started was not around and present 00:12:12.809 --> 00:12:15.250 and community that you've built with these people 00:12:15.250 --> 00:12:17.250 that you talk about from these different places 00:12:17.250 --> 00:12:20.490 have helped shape not only your own career, but 00:12:20.490 --> 00:12:25.549 the role that we get from these people playing 00:12:25.549 --> 00:12:29.909 in advancing and gender equity for future and 00:12:29.909 --> 00:12:31.870 future and future generations of these women 00:12:31.870 --> 00:12:35.970 that we have in medicine. I think that, you know, 00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:38.899 people like Linda Broski, who was a very strong 00:12:38.899 --> 00:12:42.379 mentor of mine. She was my co -chair, but she 00:12:42.379 --> 00:12:46.779 actually filed. She found out when she was sitting 00:12:46.779 --> 00:12:49.139 on the search committee for the medical school, 00:12:49.720 --> 00:12:51.820 they were searching for the chair of the department, 00:12:52.200 --> 00:13:01.029 and she was told that she was not chair. She 00:13:01.029 --> 00:13:04.549 was not the right person to be chair. But when 00:13:04.549 --> 00:13:10.169 she opened the booklets on each person in the 00:13:10.169 --> 00:13:12.269 department, they have like a file, she found 00:13:12.269 --> 00:13:14.169 out that she was making 20 % of what the men 00:13:14.169 --> 00:13:17.970 were making. Not 20 % less, but 20 % of what 00:13:17.970 --> 00:13:22.330 the men were making. Oh. So she went about... 00:13:22.460 --> 00:13:24.980 And I actually believe it or not, I've actually 00:13:24.980 --> 00:13:28.100 heard of people in other programs that did the 00:13:28.100 --> 00:13:34.039 same thing. There was a woman. urologist that 00:13:34.039 --> 00:13:35.960 had mentored a man all the way through his training. 00:13:36.299 --> 00:13:38.659 And she was a full professor at her institution. 00:13:38.659 --> 00:13:41.740 And when he came to join, after finished his 00:13:41.740 --> 00:13:43.740 residency and his fellowship, when he came to 00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:45.080 join, he asked, hey, would you mind looking at 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:48.200 my contract? And she found out that he was being 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:50.460 offered, and that's not even negotiated. This 00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:52.179 is like right off the bat. So you always started 00:13:52.179 --> 00:13:56.039 a negotiation part. And then you started at a 00:13:56.039 --> 00:13:57.679 certain point, then you negotiate up to a higher 00:13:57.679 --> 00:14:01.759 point. And he was being offered $175 ,000 a year. 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:05.879 more than she was making. Oh my gosh. I mean, 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:10.000 it's not uncommon. It happens. And so, you know, 00:14:10.059 --> 00:14:12.159 just knowing that. that exists that helps me 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:14.759 a lot in being able to talk to people about negotiation 00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:16.860 because people don't like to negotiate especially 00:14:16.860 --> 00:14:18.940 women don't like to negotiate and just talking 00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:21.080 to them about negotiation and showing them you 00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:23.340 know like with me one of my positions they offered 00:14:23.340 --> 00:14:27.080 50 000 when my friend stayed on with them negotiating 00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:30.019 she got him up to 130 000 so if they can afford 00:14:30.019 --> 00:14:31.960 to pay you 130 000 but they're only offering 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:35.179 you 50 000 it just seems you know kind of useless. 00:14:36.220 --> 00:14:38.679 And so, you know, she ended up not going there 00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:41.379 either. But, you know, there is wiggle room there 00:14:41.379 --> 00:14:43.740 and they always start with a low number, hoping 00:14:43.740 --> 00:14:46.200 that you'll take it. And there are some people 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:47.899 that actually believe that's why women actually 00:14:47.899 --> 00:14:50.019 get paid less, because they don't negotiate. 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:52.820 But in my experience, I don't think that's the 00:14:52.820 --> 00:14:54.659 whole thing. Because in one of my positions, 00:14:55.220 --> 00:14:57.679 I negotiated, I was trying to negotiate with 00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:00.980 the service unit director at the VA. And he said 00:15:00.980 --> 00:15:02.980 there's absolutely no wiggle room with regards 00:15:02.980 --> 00:15:06.879 to salary. And I guess I took him at face value 00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:08.220 because I didn't think he'd be lying to me. And 00:15:08.220 --> 00:15:09.700 then I found out when I got there that there 00:15:09.700 --> 00:15:13.580 was a male who had much less experience than 00:15:13.580 --> 00:15:15.399 I did. He had only graduated a year. I had been 00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:17.379 doing hospital's work for like 13 years at that 00:15:17.379 --> 00:15:20.539 point. And he was getting paid $10 ,000 a year 00:15:20.539 --> 00:15:22.799 more than I was making. And I just found out 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:24.279 because I asked him. I said, hey, I just wanted 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:27.659 to know if one of my residents wants to come 00:15:27.659 --> 00:15:30.009 here and apply for a job, can you? tell me what 00:15:30.009 --> 00:15:32.470 you're making so I can tell him where to start 00:15:32.470 --> 00:15:36.710 with negotiations. And he said when he gave me 00:15:36.710 --> 00:15:38.629 what he was making was 10 ,000 a year more than 00:15:38.629 --> 00:15:41.549 I was making. And I was like in shock. I really 00:15:41.549 --> 00:15:43.610 was. But I ended up leaving that program because 00:15:43.610 --> 00:15:47.990 I just didn't think I was right. So I think that, 00:15:48.210 --> 00:15:50.659 you know, just The whole idea about negotiating 00:15:50.659 --> 00:15:52.480 women have to kind of get over that. But I don't 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:53.740 think that's all there is. I think there are 00:15:53.740 --> 00:15:56.820 other things that affect what they're being worth. 00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:59.039 I mean, during my training, it didn't happen 00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:01.080 to me, but other people were being told, well, 00:16:01.379 --> 00:16:03.740 your husband's a doctor. We can afford to pay 00:16:03.740 --> 00:16:06.759 you less because he can support you and those 00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:08.519 sorts of things, which are really ridiculous. 00:16:10.220 --> 00:16:12.320 Have you heard of, oh, you can't see the book. 00:16:12.860 --> 00:16:15.740 It's called Women Don't Ask, Negotiation and 00:16:15.740 --> 00:16:20.029 the Gender Divide. Yes, yes. Yes. Actually, we, 00:16:20.049 --> 00:16:24.730 our students, we had them speak, had Sarah Laschover 00:16:24.730 --> 00:16:28.129 speak at one of our meetings. Oh. Years back 00:16:28.129 --> 00:16:32.440 and. And so I've actually used the same skills 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:34.419 that they've used because what they were doing 00:16:34.419 --> 00:16:36.600 is getting like insurance companies to pay for 00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:38.299 it. So I got our malpractice insurance company 00:16:38.299 --> 00:16:41.379 to bring Sarah Lasher here to Buffalo to do a 00:16:41.379 --> 00:16:43.940 talk. And she is absolutely amazing. They're 00:16:43.940 --> 00:16:46.159 both amazing. So the first part is women don't 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:48.779 ask. And the second part of the book is ask for 00:16:48.779 --> 00:16:51.659 it. And then the second part of the book is really 00:16:51.659 --> 00:16:55.139 good because they have like a camp and the whole 00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:57.320 idea is that you start asking for things that 00:16:57.320 --> 00:17:00.899 aren't important. So for example, you know, when 00:17:00.899 --> 00:17:04.380 I read that I brought some roses for the folks 00:17:04.380 --> 00:17:08.579 on my committee and I stopped at the place where 00:17:08.579 --> 00:17:10.299 I got the roses and I said, hey, can you give 00:17:10.299 --> 00:17:12.220 me some water bottles to put them in? And they 00:17:12.220 --> 00:17:14.119 were like two dollars a piece and they gave me, 00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:15.779 you know, however many water bottles to go with 00:17:15.779 --> 00:17:18.019 the number of roses that I had just for free. 00:17:18.259 --> 00:17:20.180 But if I didn't ask, I wouldn't have known that, 00:17:20.619 --> 00:17:25.589 right? I negotiated for a vehicle when we were 00:17:25.589 --> 00:17:28.549 visiting down in Florida. And I got them talked 00:17:28.549 --> 00:17:31.549 down $1 ,300. And it took me a while. It was 00:17:31.549 --> 00:17:34.150 almost two hours that I did the negotiations. 00:17:34.269 --> 00:17:36.130 And my family was going crazy. But I said, well, 00:17:36.230 --> 00:17:38.490 look, guys, we got an extra $1 ,300 to spend 00:17:38.490 --> 00:17:43.710 on vacation now. So negotiating on things that 00:17:43.710 --> 00:17:45.730 aren't important so that you feel comfortable 00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:49.109 with it when it comes to talking about your job, 00:17:49.470 --> 00:17:51.690 your salary. And there are other things to negotiate 00:17:51.690 --> 00:17:54.109 as well. It's not just salary. It could be your 00:17:54.109 --> 00:17:56.309 hours. So there's only one person in our department 00:17:56.309 --> 00:17:59.490 when I was at the university that had every Friday 00:17:59.490 --> 00:18:02.789 off. Well, he negotiated. He said, hey, how about 00:18:02.789 --> 00:18:05.400 if I work Wednesday night? can I take Friday 00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:07.200 off because you get a half a day for administrative 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:08.980 time and all of us were required to actually 00:18:08.980 --> 00:18:11.480 come to the office for administrative time but 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:14.119 because he negotiated out of time he didn't have 00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:16.539 to come in the office at all on Fridays so even 00:18:16.539 --> 00:18:19.619 though he was paid full time you know we had 00:18:19.619 --> 00:18:21.880 to come in during our administrative time but 00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:24.380 he never did so it's all about negotiation and 00:18:24.380 --> 00:18:27.579 you just have to you can you can negotiate for 00:18:27.579 --> 00:18:32.519 more time off you can negotiate for extra staff 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:34.799 if you're doing research. You know, you can negotiate 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:37.019 for space to do your research. There are all 00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:40.140 kinds of things you can negotiate for, and you 00:18:40.140 --> 00:18:42.880 just have to have your eyes open to it and, you 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:45.119 know, be able to think about what it is that 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:46.559 you want and what's going to make you happy. 00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:49.380 It's helpful sometimes to have somebody, even 00:18:49.380 --> 00:18:51.980 if they're not negotiating for you, to kind of 00:18:51.980 --> 00:18:55.160 bounce things off of. I've had, twice I've had 00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:56.700 somebody negotiate for me. There are different 00:18:56.700 --> 00:18:59.180 people, and one of them was able to negotiate. 00:18:59.709 --> 00:19:02.569 They offered me $80 ,000, and they negotiated 00:19:02.569 --> 00:19:05.329 up to $100 ,000 for me. I was supposed to be 00:19:05.329 --> 00:19:06.849 able to do a five -day work week. They got me 00:19:06.849 --> 00:19:09.650 to a four -day work week. And instead of four 00:19:09.650 --> 00:19:11.869 weeks of vacation, I got six, including my CME. 00:19:12.529 --> 00:19:14.490 And so they got all that negotiation. It only 00:19:14.490 --> 00:19:17.829 cost me like $200 to hire them to help me. And 00:19:17.829 --> 00:19:20.470 so there's lots of different ways to do it. But, 00:19:20.509 --> 00:19:24.160 you know, it's... Yeah, you have to negotiate. 00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:26.819 I mean, it's not all about negotiation with regards 00:19:26.819 --> 00:19:29.099 to the inequities, but that's part of it for 00:19:29.099 --> 00:19:32.299 sure. I feel like even having this knowledge 00:19:32.299 --> 00:19:35.420 is power until this conversation right now. I've 00:19:35.420 --> 00:19:37.359 talked to people about negotiating things, and 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:39.460 I didn't even know until right now that you can 00:19:39.460 --> 00:19:42.740 hire people to help you negotiate. I feel like 00:19:42.740 --> 00:19:45.480 just knowing these things is so much power, and 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.099 that's why things like these podcasts are so 00:19:48.099 --> 00:19:50.410 important, right? How are we supposed to know 00:19:50.410 --> 00:19:52.430 about these things? Otherwise, unless we have 00:19:52.430 --> 00:19:55.089 these mentors like you in our lives telling us 00:19:55.089 --> 00:19:58.869 that this is how the world goes. Yeah. And there's 00:19:58.869 --> 00:20:02.829 a group up in Montana that works with young people 00:20:02.829 --> 00:20:05.890 to help them with their initial negotiations 00:20:05.890 --> 00:20:09.680 for program or for their jobs. I can't remember 00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:11.500 the name of it right now, but it's Girl Boss 00:20:11.500 --> 00:20:14.200 or something like that. And they actually teach 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:16.220 you the skills, and then you can go over it with 00:20:16.220 --> 00:20:18.180 them, but they kind of teach you how to do it. 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:20.690 So you can do the negotiation, but they... You 00:20:20.690 --> 00:20:23.009 know, they'll train you to do that, which is 00:20:23.009 --> 00:20:24.690 really good, but kind of helps you open your 00:20:24.690 --> 00:20:26.630 eyes to the things that are available to you. 00:20:26.750 --> 00:20:28.829 So like I had a friend who, she was in private 00:20:28.829 --> 00:20:30.690 practice, so basically she put her kids on the 00:20:30.690 --> 00:20:32.890 bus in the morning. She drove to her office. 00:20:32.890 --> 00:20:36.210 She saw patients from like nine until three. 00:20:36.650 --> 00:20:38.670 It wasn't three, whatever time it was, she had 00:20:38.670 --> 00:20:40.490 to get her kids off the bus, but she saw them 00:20:40.490 --> 00:20:42.309 straight through. She didn't stop for lunch from 00:20:42.309 --> 00:20:44.230 nine until like 2 .30 and then she got home in 00:20:44.230 --> 00:20:46.269 time to get her kids off the bus and she stayed 00:20:46.269 --> 00:20:48.670 one day late. So she, you know, she was, she 00:20:48.670 --> 00:20:51.140 was out by 2 .30. every day except Wednesdays. 00:20:51.299 --> 00:20:53.460 So she stayed until like 4 .30 on Wednesdays, 00:20:53.460 --> 00:20:55.299 and that was her late day. But that, you know, 00:20:55.420 --> 00:20:56.700 it was her own private practice, and she could 00:20:56.700 --> 00:20:58.599 do what she wanted, and it worked out well for 00:20:58.599 --> 00:21:02.210 her. Her husband, you know, was... was a oral 00:21:02.210 --> 00:21:04.569 surgeon. And so he made a good salary. And so 00:21:04.569 --> 00:21:05.849 between the two of them, they were able to do 00:21:05.849 --> 00:21:09.009 what they needed to do. So she had the luxury 00:21:09.009 --> 00:21:11.269 of being able to do that, you know, people that 00:21:11.269 --> 00:21:14.450 are part of one, one salary families don't always 00:21:14.450 --> 00:21:16.250 have that luxury. But you know, she did because 00:21:16.250 --> 00:21:19.710 she and I was also in practice. So there's lots 00:21:19.710 --> 00:21:21.990 of things you can negotiate for and lots of things 00:21:21.990 --> 00:21:24.289 that you can kind of build your own practice 00:21:24.289 --> 00:21:26.349 and your own and your own mind of what you want 00:21:26.349 --> 00:21:31.289 to do. Absolutely. So can you kind of tell us, 00:21:31.809 --> 00:21:33.789 you've been doing this work for a while, right? 00:21:33.869 --> 00:21:36.690 How have you continued to be inspired, especially 00:21:36.690 --> 00:21:40.769 as you see not only like new generations of physicians 00:21:40.769 --> 00:21:43.390 stepping into the advocacy and the good things 00:21:43.390 --> 00:21:46.630 that are happening, but even as you're seeing 00:21:46.630 --> 00:21:49.690 still these things you've been fighting for for 00:21:49.690 --> 00:21:51.789 years have remained persistent and maybe you 00:21:51.789 --> 00:21:53.690 have not seen as much change as you want. How 00:21:53.690 --> 00:21:57.049 have you kind of like kept this motivation and 00:21:57.049 --> 00:22:06.200 inspiration? My daughter is 28, and I just don't 00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:08.059 want to see her going through what I'm going 00:22:08.059 --> 00:22:10.420 through. And so I just feel that it's really 00:22:10.420 --> 00:22:12.759 important to change the world if we can. And 00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:14.700 it's very difficult with our current administration 00:22:14.700 --> 00:22:20.160 to make any headway. But we finally got Biden 00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:25.019 to ratify the ERA. Unfortunately, we couldn't 00:22:25.019 --> 00:22:31.940 get the librarian to sign off on it. But, you 00:22:31.940 --> 00:22:34.000 know, I think that, you know, my daughter, just 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:36.859 knowing her and what I'd like to see her life 00:22:36.859 --> 00:22:39.359 to be different, I just keep fighting to make 00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:43.779 things equal. And my, the students and residents 00:22:43.779 --> 00:22:49.720 on the medical, on the gender equity task force 00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:52.559 are very inspiring and they, you know, keep me 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:55.440 enjoying what I'm doing. I love that. That's 00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:59.460 awesome. So Finally, can you just give us some 00:22:59.460 --> 00:23:02.980 advice? What advice would you give to medical 00:23:02.980 --> 00:23:05.440 students, these early career physicians who want 00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:08.779 to be a part of this lasting, meaningful change 00:23:08.779 --> 00:23:14.000 that we need to eventually succeed gender equity 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:21.259 one day? I think that standing up for yourself 00:23:21.259 --> 00:23:24.759 is important, but you have to pick your battles. 00:23:25.380 --> 00:23:28.359 So you don't want to be seen as the person that's 00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:31.220 always fighting over things. So you just have 00:23:31.220 --> 00:23:34.140 to pick the important things to fight about and 00:23:34.140 --> 00:23:37.660 not everything. And it's really important that 00:23:37.660 --> 00:23:40.519 you learn to negotiate and that you negotiate. 00:23:40.859 --> 00:23:43.500 It's not all about the negotiation. But if you 00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:46.420 do not negotiate, you will be leaving money at 00:23:46.420 --> 00:23:48.259 the table. Because any time it even makes an 00:23:48.259 --> 00:23:51.779 offer to you, there's money there that they have. 00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:56.519 tell you the top number. They just tell you, 00:23:56.740 --> 00:23:58.099 this is what we're offering you. And there's 00:23:58.099 --> 00:24:00.779 always money there to go up. So if you don't 00:24:00.779 --> 00:24:02.960 know that, you're not going to negotiate. And 00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:04.720 if you don't negotiate, you'll definitely be 00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:07.259 making less money. And men are much more likely 00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:09.640 to negotiate. It's just a difference between 00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:13.559 men and women. Women don't want to make it seem 00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:18.319 like they don't want to, like with me, When I 00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:21.839 had them negotiating for me in Ohio, the program 00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:24.319 I was in, I was going into the, I was the only 00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:26.140 woman physician that's going to be practicing 00:24:26.140 --> 00:24:28.440 in that county. They couldn't get my name right. 00:24:28.500 --> 00:24:30.339 They couldn't get anything right. They put, you 00:24:30.339 --> 00:24:34.740 know, Dr. Rebecca Gebhard. They put MD instead 00:24:34.740 --> 00:24:40.259 of DO. I mean, it was just crazy. And so I just 00:24:40.259 --> 00:24:42.779 figured, well, if I had a guy negotiating that 00:24:42.779 --> 00:24:44.339 they wouldn't do that to him. And I was able 00:24:44.339 --> 00:24:46.559 to walk in so I couldn't be the bad guy with 00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:49.000 negotiations because he had done all the negotiations 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:51.720 and I could just walk in and start working and 00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:54.900 not have that over my head. So I just think that, 00:24:54.900 --> 00:24:57.039 you know, knowing that there are other people 00:24:57.039 --> 00:25:00.339 that can do the negotiations for you is important. 00:25:01.990 --> 00:25:05.529 And I think knowing that the physician equity 00:25:05.529 --> 00:25:08.930 is there to help if you do get problems in your 00:25:08.930 --> 00:25:10.910 work, whether you're being, like lots of times 00:25:10.910 --> 00:25:13.309 women will get, have something bad happen to 00:25:13.309 --> 00:25:16.609 them at work. One of the fellows that we work 00:25:16.609 --> 00:25:19.609 with got pushed by an attending and she's the 00:25:19.609 --> 00:25:22.089 one that got fired because she complained that 00:25:22.089 --> 00:25:25.769 this attending pushed her. And so, you know, 00:25:25.829 --> 00:25:30.579 just knowing that the... physician just equity 00:25:30.579 --> 00:25:33.180 is available to help you when you're having problems 00:25:33.180 --> 00:25:36.420 in your career. Usually the people that come 00:25:36.420 --> 00:25:40.759 to them is usually women, very often women of 00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:43.660 color. There are some men that we've had come, 00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:47.079 but mostly women. And it has a lot to do with 00:25:47.079 --> 00:25:50.619 just being discriminated against and you bring 00:25:50.619 --> 00:25:52.680 up something and then they decide, well, who 00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:55.200 does she think she is telling us to do it this 00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:59.000 way or whatever. and then they just get rid of 00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:01.420 you or just make your life really miserable. 00:26:01.660 --> 00:26:03.480 So just knowing that there's support out there 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:08.420 for you. Thank you. I love it just comes down 00:26:08.420 --> 00:26:12.519 to knowing what you need to know to get through, 00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:14.539 right? And then choosing your battle. I love 00:26:14.539 --> 00:26:16.380 how you said that. Like, you have to choose what 00:26:16.380 --> 00:26:18.880 you're going to fight for. There's so many aspects 00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:20.380 that I've learned from being on the committee 00:26:20.380 --> 00:26:25.220 that we We have a long way to go before we reach 00:26:25.220 --> 00:26:28.099 gender equity, but I think if everybody chooses 00:26:28.099 --> 00:26:31.579 a battle, then together we can, we can take them 00:26:31.579 --> 00:26:34.339 all down one at a time, right? Yeah. Well, I 00:26:34.339 --> 00:26:38.200 was, I was the 11th of 13 women fired in my department 00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:43.359 when I was at the university. 11 of 13. For no 00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:47.980 reason. There's no reason. And the chair of the 00:26:47.980 --> 00:26:50.569 department when he was forced. So what I did 00:26:50.569 --> 00:26:53.829 was I hired a private investigator. And the reason 00:26:53.829 --> 00:26:55.789 why they let me go is because I was complaining 00:26:55.789 --> 00:26:59.049 because one of the program directors was sleeping 00:26:59.049 --> 00:27:01.210 with one of the residents. And he was married 00:27:01.210 --> 00:27:03.430 with children. She was married as well. And I 00:27:03.430 --> 00:27:06.670 basically said only to one person. I didn't say 00:27:06.670 --> 00:27:08.450 it to a large group. I just said to one person, 00:27:08.569 --> 00:27:10.349 I said, I think it's ridiculous that we're hiring. 00:27:11.070 --> 00:27:12.990 Vonda, just because she's sleeping with Brian. 00:27:13.130 --> 00:27:14.970 We have three other residents who make much better 00:27:14.970 --> 00:27:17.910 faculty than she would. And they fired me and 00:27:17.910 --> 00:27:20.809 hired her with my salary. And one of the women 00:27:20.809 --> 00:27:23.289 that I was talking to that was still in the department, 00:27:23.549 --> 00:27:24.809 she's like, you know, I just want to let you 00:27:24.809 --> 00:27:26.930 know that I support you, but I have to stay under 00:27:26.930 --> 00:27:28.349 the radar. You know, I'm raising children on 00:27:28.349 --> 00:27:31.769 my own and I can't not be working. So, you know, 00:27:31.769 --> 00:27:33.890 don't say I said anything, but I just want you 00:27:33.890 --> 00:27:35.849 to know that I'm supporting you. And I think 00:27:35.849 --> 00:27:38.619 that, you know, Some people are going to be more 00:27:38.619 --> 00:27:42.180 likely to speak up than others. I did actually 00:27:42.180 --> 00:27:44.940 get my job back. I hired a private investigator 00:27:44.940 --> 00:27:49.079 who followed this couple from a restaurant to 00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:52.160 a liquor store to a hotel, complete with videotape, 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:55.759 so that I was able to share that with the university. 00:27:56.559 --> 00:27:59.660 And they basically told the chair that he had 00:27:59.660 --> 00:28:03.700 hired me back. So I've taken my job back. You 00:28:03.700 --> 00:28:06.690 fought your battle. Maybe that was important 00:28:06.690 --> 00:28:08.609 to me. And the reason why I went back was because 00:28:08.609 --> 00:28:10.210 I wanted people to know that I didn't do anything 00:28:10.210 --> 00:28:16.089 wrong. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you, Dr. 00:28:16.269 --> 00:28:17.690 Gebhard. This has been a great conversation. 00:28:17.990 --> 00:28:19.769 I think you have so many stories that are going 00:28:19.769 --> 00:28:22.009 to have to have you on so many episodes, but 00:28:22.009 --> 00:28:25.269 this has been a nice little intro to your life 00:28:25.269 --> 00:28:27.170 and just knowing who you are and getting to know 00:28:27.170 --> 00:28:29.380 you a little bit more on the podcast. The other 00:28:29.380 --> 00:28:31.259 thing that I would encourage people to do is 00:28:31.259 --> 00:28:34.220 to join AMWA and to stay members of AMWA throughout 00:28:34.220 --> 00:28:37.140 their career. You can actually just get a lifetime 00:28:37.140 --> 00:28:39.220 membership and then you never have to pay again 00:28:39.220 --> 00:28:43.220 after that. But just encourage people to stay 00:28:43.220 --> 00:28:45.440 as members of AMWA because what you're doing, 00:28:45.859 --> 00:28:47.400 even if you don't have time to attend meetings 00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:50.720 and things like that, you're supporting the organization, 00:28:50.980 --> 00:28:53.119 the oldest women physician organization in the 00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:55.799 world. We actually started the Medical Women's 00:28:55.799 --> 00:29:01.750 International 106 years ago and and so we were 00:29:01.750 --> 00:29:04.250 older than them because we started them and uh 00:29:04.250 --> 00:29:06.349 you know it's just it's good to have it's good 00:29:06.349 --> 00:29:08.089 to support this group because if you don't have 00:29:08.089 --> 00:29:09.829 time to mentor you know we did the mentoring 00:29:09.829 --> 00:29:13.029 um it helps the students um with with scholarships 00:29:13.029 --> 00:29:15.190 and things like that and just really encourage 00:29:15.190 --> 00:29:18.849 everybody to to as students to join but but very 00:29:18.849 --> 00:29:21.329 often the students will fall off after they've 00:29:21.329 --> 00:29:23.210 gotten all this mentoring i just encourage everybody 00:29:23.210 --> 00:29:25.910 to stay in for the long run because that will 00:29:25.910 --> 00:29:29.710 help change the world I love it. Thank you so 00:29:29.710 --> 00:29:32.630 much. You're welcome. So that's a wrap on this 00:29:32.630 --> 00:29:35.210 episode of Our Voice is Our Future. We hope today's 00:29:35.210 --> 00:29:37.609 conversation inspired you, challenged you, and 00:29:37.609 --> 00:29:39.970 reminded you of the power of raising your voice. 00:29:40.490 --> 00:29:43.009 The fight for equity doesn't stop here. Join 00:29:43.009 --> 00:29:45.109 us in the movement. Subscribe wherever you get 00:29:45.109 --> 00:29:47.150 your podcasts. And if you love this episode, 00:29:47.230 --> 00:29:49.609 share it with someone who needs to hear it. Until 00:29:49.609 --> 00:29:52.369 next time, stay bold, stay vocal, and keep the 00:29:52.369 --> 00:29:54.670 conversation going. This is Our Voice is Our 00:29:54.670 --> 00:29:54.970 Future.