Welcome to Our Voices, Our Future, the podcast
where we amplify the voices driving change and
equity within medicine and beyond. Brought to
you by the Gender Equity Task Force, a committee
of the American Medical Women's Association.
We're here to challenge norms, break barriers
and ignite conversations that matter. I'm Meenu
Menene and in each episode, we will bring you
candid discussions with leaders, change makers
and advocates working to create a more inclusive
and just world. No more silence, no more waiting.
You're listening to Our Voices, Our Future. Let's
get into it. Today, we're welcoming Dr. Amber
Shirley, who is a PGY -1 transitional year resident
at Baptist Memorial Hospital, DeSoto, and will
be starting neurology residency at the University
of Tennessee Health Science Center next year.
She is looking forward to a career in neurology
and interested in potentially subspecializing.
Hi. Hi, Dr. Shirley. Before I get into it, I
just wanted to kind of welcome you. Hi. Thank
you so much. I'm super excited to be here. Dr.
Shirley, during medical school at Lincoln Memorial
University, the Bus College of Phosphopathic
Medicine, she realized her passions for health
care policy and advocacy, which led her to leadership
and involvement with Omega Beta Iota. the American
Osteopathic Association and the American Medical
Association as well as the Tennessee Medical
Association. She's excited to continue this involvement
as the inaugural Osteopathic Scholar Advocacy
Certification Program resident coordinator for
Omega Beta Iota, a healthcare advocacy fellowship
for osteopathic medical students she co -founded
as she was inspired to create more opportunities
for outstanding student advocates to develop
their advocacy skills and build their career.
She also serves as the vice chair for the American
Medical Association resident and fellow section
committee on legislation and advocacy, leading
grassroots advocacy initiatives and reviewing
healthcare policy. She also serves on the American
Osteopathic Association's Bureau of Emerging
Leaders collaborative cohort and communications
workgroup. Additionally, she has been recently
named the HRSA Champion DO Health Policy Fellow
through the American Osteopathic Association's
Training and Policy Studies, a fellowship for
resident physicians to gain more experience in
healthcare policy. And in addition to all of
this, she's also passionate about social media,
where she finds, where she herself finds a fun,
creative way to share her experience in medicine,
connect with other healthcare professionals,
and advocate for healthcare policy. priorities
outside of traditional methods. You can also
find her active on TikTok, where she focuses
on sharing her life outside the hospital and
advice for medical students. And outside of medicine,
Dr. Shirley is passionate about the outdoors,
hiking, crochet, and exploring the beautiful
rich history of Memphis, Tennessee, especially
the music and food. She's a proud cat mom to
a precious tuxedo and a mischievous orange cat.
And last but not least, most importantly, she
got recently engaged to her fiancé. Welcome again.
Can you tell us more about yourself and your
journey into medicine and kind of what led you
to Korean osteopathic medicine in particular?
Yeah, so thank you so much for having me today.
So I grew up in rural South Alabama and one of
the major things that affected my life through
all of that and the lives of those around me
was lack of access to health care. I mean, we
had a small community hospital that didn't even
have, for example, a OB -GYN there to deliver
children. So patients were having to travel hours
for that, any sort of specialist. outside of
your basic family medicine doctor, we were having
to travel for hours. And I realized very early
on that one way that I can make a really big
difference in the world and affect my lives and
the life of my family was to go into medicine
and focus on healthcare policy and advocacy,
especially in underserved areas, and work to
address those healthcare disparities. So when
I got to college, I was talking to one of my
professors about this. And he had been involved
with several students over the years who had
gone to osteopathic medical schools. And he kind
of got me started on interest in that. And one
of the main things that stood out to me about
osteopathic medicine in particular was their
focus on rural areas, underserved areas, and
additional avenues for advocacy through being
a DO. that are not available in other aspects
of medicine. So I was very excited to be an incoming
DO at LMUDECOM a few years ago. It was a great
opportunity. It was a great experience that I
had and I absolutely loved it. My next question
for you is, what role do you think advocacy plays
in addressing gender equity within the medical
field? Can you share any experiences where you've
engaged in advocacy efforts regarding that? Yeah,
so I think one of the biggest things that happens
when you're advocating and you're someone who
doesn't look like the stereotypical physician
is just your presence and your perspective being
there. So just being so I'm kind of underrepresented
in both in two different ways. So as a Dio and
then as a female, and then I also come from a
lower middle class family. So I think all of
that like my gender experience, my socio economic
experience, my interesting experience and perspective
I have in medicine as a DO all combine and create
my perspective when I'm engaging in these advocacy
efforts, a lot different than those around me.
So I guess an example of this is when I'm just
every day when I'm lobbying, well, not every
day that I lobby, but you know, when I'm lobbying.
Yeah, when you're in those spaces. Yes, within
those spaces, I'm surrounded by older, usually
male, MD physicians, and they have their one
perspective, their one thought process. And I
bring my young female DO perspective and thought
process. And not only am I sometimes able to,
like, coordinate and work with, especially the
younger staffers in the congressional office,
because when you lobby, you're usually meeting
with a younger staffer. So not only can I level
with them on a different level, I'm helping connect
older generations of medicine to newer generations,
because we're in a space where I am this physician's
equal, even as a medical student, we're in a
space that kind of equalizes. that hierarchy
and I was able to bring my perspective more and
kind of change some minds and change some thought
processes and perspectives there. Yeah, I love
many things you said. I'm also a DO and a female
in medicine. And I think the perspective that
we I think that's really good to highlight, I
feel like for other DOs are out there and other
female physicians that are out there as well.
I feel like your identity in those spaces is
really important. And just showing up is really
important. But I also like the thing you said
about kind of connecting and bridging the gap
and leveling the playing field and showing up
in these advocacy spaces of lobbying and things.
And I think that's a different perspective. So
thank you for sharing that. And I feel like I
love how you kind of sum that up and like different
aspects of how we can advocate. In your opinion,
what are effective strategies for engaging members
in the medical in medical organizations to kind
of promote diversity and gender equity. I think
the first thing is just showing up. Just showing
up as you and I, people like you and I just showing
up to these organized medicine events, going
to your local medicine medical societies, networking
events. I think that's the main thing is just
showing up and networking at these events. I
know, especially when I was involved, in certain
organizations in the past, I've been the youngest
different voice in the room. And maybe I didn't
need to walk in and say, hey, let's address diversity,
equity, and inclusion today. But I could walk
in and say, hi, my name is Amber. I'm a medical
student at LMUDECOM. I'm super interested in
this particular topic that we're discussing on
diversity in medical school today at the House
of Delegates. Can you tell me your perspective?
That's so awesome. This is how I view that and
my lived experience in that. And I think just
having those conversations and just bringing
yourself to the table. One of my favorite sayings
is if you're not at the table, you're on the
menu. So I think just really showing up. and
making sure you're always at the table and your
viewpoint is always there is a really good way
to start having those conversations. I love that
saying, I've never heard of them. I've heard
the first part like about being at the table,
but not the menu part. I guess my follow up question
from all of this kind of is like for the person
who hasn't done any work in advocacy or the early
medical student who wants to get involved, did
you ever have that imposter syndrome, the doubt
of showing up in these spaces? And what advice
did you, I guess, implement in yourself to kind
of let yourself show up? But also something probably
someone needs to hear about showing up at these
spaces, because I feel like sometimes they tend
to be scary kind of, in our brain at least, they
tend to be scary. Yeah, so my first experience
with lobbying was the Tennessee Medical Association's
Doctor's Day on the hill in Nashville. So I recommend
to all students, if you have an opportunity like
this, this is like the prime. place to go so
our local medical society rented a bus and they
were bringing in physicians who have done this
for years who know every lawmaker who have coffee
with these lawmakers outside of this day right
like they are bringing in all of these people
and they offered a limited number of LMU students
to go with them and the great thing about this
particular setup was they had the physicians
lobby but they had the medical students there,
and we were there to learn, we were there to
observe, and we were there to kind of figure
out. So we got to go to the policy briefings,
we got to sit in these rooms with all of these
great leaders, physician leaders, and we got
to hear how they approach things, and then being
on the bus, you know, we were seated amongst
all of these cool physicians. So we got to chat
with them about their experience and how they
got to where they are. And that was a wonderful
first experience because I got to see everything
firsthand to be there, but without the pressure
of me having to speak up and me having to ever
speak to the politicians for the first time.
Now I would, I would, like a lot of times the
politicians, there were several who were physicians
themselves. So they would see medical students
and they were so excited and wanted to talk to
us and so we would chat but that was a really
great first opportunity. Another great way to
kind of get involved and get your foot in the
door I think is sometimes I know double ACOM
sends these out and the AOA sends these out especially
the osteopathic advocacy network you can sign
up and you can get like emails and you basically
go into the dashboard and you put in a little
personal story and you find your congressional
leaders and you send and it sends an email for
you. Yes. It's a great way to like do something
substantial. You can also just pick up your phone
and prepare a script, like go online, figure
out like who your representatives are, figure
out what's a big policy issue with either AAMC
or ACOM or AOA right now. And just write up a
small script and call your Call your representative,
call your senator, and just read off your script.
One thing I say to a lot of people, you're not
going to be talking to the senator. You're not
going to be talking to the representative. You're
going to be talking to a staffer who is basically
your peer, and they're going to take down your
message. And I think that kind of removes that
intimidation factor. It's not going to be much
different than a conversation between you and
I when you call each other. Because they're going
to be talking to someone like you and I. As far
as imposter syndrome, I feel like it's one of
those things that gets better with time and experience.
And I hate to say that you just need to trust
the process and trust that you'll get there one
day. But everyone starts somewhere. And the fact
that you're just starting and getting yourself
out there, you're already doing so much more
than most anyone else. And so yes, it's scary.
Yes, you're going to feel like I am completely
unqualified to be doing this. But the more you
do, the more qualified you become, the more you
learn, the more confidence you have in your ability
to do that. I love that practice until you're
confident. Exactly. Practice confidence. Yes
yes and just kind of kind of fake it till you
make it you know the first few times you're going
to be shaky on the inside but just breathe say
you know what I'm going to come here I have a
few facts up my sleeve that I'm going to share
with this lawmakers I'm going to come here I'm
going to say it I'm going to share my perspective
and it's going to be scary but it's okay we're
going to do it. Yeah, it's like we're gonna show
up for clinicals. I feel like sometimes that's
the same spiel we give ourselves. It might be
scary, but we're gonna show up. We're gonna do
this. Exactly. And it gets so much better every
time. Nowadays, when I see a policy priority
going off, I just pick up the phone. I don't
even write up a script. I pick up the phone.
I call Senator representative, be like, hey,
this is Dr. Shirley, practicing physician, or
I usually say practicing resident physician in
the Memphis mature area. I'm very concerned about
this bill coming forward for a vote in two days.
I need to tell you how this affects me. Don't
even think about it. It just rattles off now.
Lovely. And you said you gave some resources
of like where to kind of keep current of like
the different policies. Are there anything like
in terms of like within your state and region
like places you go or you'd recommend people
to go? Local medical society is for me. I'm involved
in the Memphis Medical Society. They have their
own political action committee. They send advocacy
alerts. They are very involved. Physicians. State
Medical Society is a good place to get involved.
For medical students, your local AMA and SOMA
chapters are super, usually are super active,
have a lot of resources for you. That's where
I would start. I know there's some awesome other
organizations out there. I mean the AOA of course,
big fan of them obviously. The AMA has well been
super involved, but many other organizations
like Doctors for America, American Medical Women's
Association, a lot of your specialty organizations
have a lot of opportunities to do advocacy with
them as well. Lovely. So my next question is
kind of about you, your experience kind of matching
into neurology. Can you talk a little bit more
about that and maybe also like how you think
gender disparities kind of affected the process
if it did any? Yeah, so I did not decide to do
neurology until third year of medical school.
So I was somewhat interested in it, but I came
in pretty set on wanting to do a primary care
specialty based off of being raised in Alabama
and wanting to serve the underserved. But as
I got into my clinical rotations, I quickly realized
that having a very broad scope and having 20
different things come at me every 15 minutes
was not it for me. I felt so overwhelmed and
I felt like I could never get a good grasp and
get ahead of what I needed to get ahead. And
so I realized very early on, I needed to go into
a specialty where I had a little bit more of
a limited scope where I could almost, you never
really perfect anything, right? It's the practice
of it, but where I could perfect my craft a little
bit more. a lot more comfortable and confident
within what I knew. So while I was on my family
medicine rotation, I had a lot of patients with
neurological diseases and processes going on
and I found it fascinating. I loved every minute
of those headaches, Parkinson's, tremors, neuropathy,
you name it. It was so fascinating. I really
enjoyed it. So I set up a neurology clerkship.
So I'm, I don't know. Well, I do know this is
kind of more of a DO thing. We don't have neurology
as a core clerkship. Yeah, I didn't either. Yeah.
Yeah. I don't think there's maybe one or two
DO schools that do, but we don't, we don't have
the matching like co -map for it either. Yeah.
We just kind of lose that exposure there, which
is sad. And I can talk. more about that anytime.
So I set up a neurology clerkship and it was
outpatient general neurology clinic. Loved it.
My worst day on that rotation was better than
any of my best days on any other rotation. I
enjoyed it. I wanted to go back. So I decided
then I was going to do neurology. And so I went
in from there kind of halfway through third year
pivoting everything. to neuro from primary care.
It was really interesting. I was thankfully able
to present one of my neurology cases from my
family medicine rotation. I did a poster on that.
It was a very interesting manifestation of an
action tremor. And so I was able to present that.
I got involved with the student section of American
Academy of Neurology and started making connections
to get into neurology. And neurology, there's
a lot more women coming up in neurology than
there used to be. Out of my intern class, there's
seven of us and four of us are female. So I think
that's a really neat kind of change in the tides
that we're seeing. I feel like most of my friends
from LMU at least half that went into neurology
were also female. So I think we're seeing a really
neat shift in the field lately. But additionally,
being a DO, only 14 % of neurology applicants
are DOs. So that was a really interesting, like
I was coming in underdog into this because I
am late into kind of knowing what I wanted to
do. I had not taken, I had not taken USMLE step
one because I wanted to do primary care, so complex
level one. And I would still argue that complex
should be sufficient. But in reality, a lot of
your more academic programs want to see USMLE.
So I had not taken USMLE step one. I didn't have
a lot of neurology research. I'm going into a
field where I am largely not. What? And so I
felt like I was playing catch -up, but It ended
up working out really, really well. I utilized
a lot of the connections that I had made through
my advocacy work and organized medical medicine
work and was able to secure a couple of audition
rotations at some programs I was very interested
in, ended up here at Memphis on my audition,
fell in love with the program. I had a great
time. One of the things that really Drew me to
the program was the diversity of the residents
here. They were male, female, IMG, USMD, USDAO,
older, younger, first career, second career.
It was so amazing to me to see all of these people
in this neurology program and how they all have
their different perspectives and different experiences
to the field. I also love the city. I'm a music
person, big music person, grew up playing the
piano. Memphis, of course, is home to so much
rich music history. I live like five minutes
from where Elvis lived at one point. That is
wild. I can just drive down past Elvis's old
house. Are you kidding me? I was walking past
a theater the other day and then I later found
out that's the theater that Elvis used to rent
out on the weekend for him and his buddies to
hang out in. Are you kidding me? I'm just standing
there. I'm just standing there. I'm like getting,
I'm eating a burger at Huey's and across the
street is a record studio that the Rolling Stones,
my favorite band of all time, recorded an album
like 10 years ago at. What insane. Anyway. I
love your passion for both neurology and music.
Thank you. Thank you. But I really did fall in
love with the city and the program and was absolutely
stoked to end up matching here and so excited
to see what the future holds. I'm definitely
interested in subspecializing. There's a lot
of different areas of neurology to go into, which
I love. I love that I have a narrower scope of
expertise, but still a broad variety of things
I can do. So I can do outpatient clinic, I can
do inpatient, I can do neuro critical care, I
can do interventional neurology, I can do telehealth,
I can do all of these different things within
this field. And I think that's so awesome. I'm
super excited, excited to explore it over the
next few years. Currently, I'm more of an inpatient
girl, I do enjoy the shift work, I enjoy going
in. getting there, spending a few hours dedicated
to my hospital patients and then signing off,
finishing up my stuff for the day and not having
anything else. I really enjoy that separation.
But we'll see how things pan out. I still have
a lot to see, a lot to do, a lot to learn. Yeah,
I think that's the beauty of our journey in medicine
is that we get to explore it, especially during
our clinicals if we haven't done before already
and same in residency if it's subspecialty of
choice or anything anything that's I love that
we get to learn and explore. I'm so excited too.
So with doing the transitional year, we're allowed
to rotate through neurology three times. So they
have us rotate with our program because it's
all within the same area and same hospital system.
So I've gotten to do general neurology and epilepsy
already in patient. I get to do it again in a
couple of months. So it's been so nice to have
that early. exposure and that early ability to
get in there and do neurology. It's a nice little
something to look forward to after months of
inpatient wards. No, but that makes sense. I
feel like it's what you want to do and what you're
passionate about too, so I think that's a good
thing to be able to look forward to. Yes. question
is, we kind of talked about support in a little
bit, but what resources or support systems have
you found helpful while you're navigating like,
medicine as a whole in different stages of your
life? So for me, one of my biggest support systems
has been the friends and mentors that I've made
through organized medicine. I was so like, I
was so lucky to be able to represent our state
and my school on levels outside on a bigger stage.
Like I served in the AMA, I served as a delegate
to the House of Delegates. So I sat with the
Tennessee Medical Association and I got to know
a lot of those physicians incredibly well. And
they have been so supportive of me throughout
medical school and getting into residency. They
have just been wonderful. I mean, some of them
came to my graduation from medical school. Several
of them are hopefully gonna be at attendance
in my wedding. I lived with some of, I lived
during all of my auditions, they were all within
the state. I lived with them while I did my auditions.
It was such a sweet, sweet relationship that
I've been able to build with these physicians.
And that's been one of my biggest sources of
support. Additionally, the American Osteopathic
Association, being a DO in and of itself is like
being in a big family, right? We're still kind
of a small profession. And especially when you
get involved in like SOMA or COSGP or the AOA,
you meet so many people, other osteopathic medical
students, residents, physicians, even staff from
around the nation that are very passionate, are
very excited about the osteopathic profession,
are very excited to meet you. And some of my
closest friends have come from that. I talk to
my friends from OBI especially, at least weekly,
some of them daily, we're besties. I love them
so much. This goes to one of my biggest pieces
of advice for people who might be afraid to get
involved in leadership or advocacy or organized
medicine outside of their school. Man, when you
do that, you meet some of the coolest people
and you become friends with some of the coolest
people. I share this experience because it's
so special to me. I recently engaged. There's
this big conference. that DOs have every year.
It's called OMED, the Osteopathic Medical Education
Conference. So she was in Nashville, Tennessee.
And there's so many of my friends that go to
this. My school friends, my friends from Omega
Beta Iota. I have friends that I've made through
different organizations that all come to OMED.
And so my boyfriend at the time, when he was
scheming his proposal, We were both going to
attend OMED. He's a pharmacist, so he's very
interested in that sort of stuff. And they have
an advocate track for spouses. Oh, really? I
did not know that. Yes. And they have like an
exhibit hall, and they have different... lectures
and all with different like medications and pharmaceuticals,
which he was interested in. So his thought process,
which he's right on the money with, was if I
figure out how to propose to her, oh, Med, she'll
be able to celebrate with all of her friends.
Yeah, that's so sweet. My best friend from medical
school lives an hour outside in Nashville. She's
finishing up her clinical rotations. And so he
schemed with her and got her to come over and
we went to the Centennial Park right in front
of the Taylor Swift bench. And we were just going
to have a picnic with him and my best friend
and her family. And next thing I know, he was
down on one knee. That's such a sweet memory.
And it was so great because we got to celebrate
with so many close friends that weekend and it's
just so special. He did good. He planned really
well. He did! Oh my gosh, he did so good. He
planned it perfectly. I didn't have a clue, which
is how I wanted it. I didn't have a single clue.
That's how I wanted it as well. I was like, I
want to be surprised. I was like, I'm going to
be purposely oblivious. And whenever we go out
to do a date, I'm going to have my hair and makeup
done and in a cute outfit. So that way you won't
have to worry about it. Yeah, planner, you are.
But those are important things to plan. They
are. Yeah. I love that. I think my last question
for you is kind of retouch on it a little bit,
but advice you would love to give young women
or those who are underrepresented in medicine,
especially in terms of leadership and advocacy
roles and seeking them out? I say show up. Show
up as much as you can. Call people, email people.
Reach out to your local medical societies. Reach
out to if you have a professor or a dean at your
school who you know is involved in some aspect
with leadership or advocacy. Reach out. See if
they're willing to mentor you. See if they're
willing to just sit down and have a little 30
minute conversation about their experience in
leadership and what it means to be a woman in
medical leadership. I found so much advice and
so much support from just being willing to reach
out. There's one of my close mentors now, Dr.
Caparelli. He is former president of the Tennessee
Medical Association. We have that relationship
because I just I had gotten his number from an
event we had on campus. And I just called him
one night and asked him if he would come speak
to a group of medical students and shared with
him some of my interests in medicine. And then
he came and spoke to us. And then I reached out
again a couple of times about other things. And
we just, we got close to that. And he's been
one of the closest mentors that I've had throughout
medical school and now in residency still. And
that was all because I didn't. Well, I did hesitate
because I was scared. I'm like, who am I a second
year medical student picking up the phone to
call the president of the Tennessee Medical Association?
That's horrifying. I did hesitate, but because
I didn't let the hesitation stop me. Yeah, I
reached out. I put myself out there and now.
I've built that relationship and now I have that
support and now I have that greater confidence
built from that. And so my biggest advice is
to just show up, reach out. It's okay to hesitate,
but get over your hesitation and do it. I love
that advice and I think that's great for someone
to hear. I think showing up is really important.
Like you said, I think the hesitation is natural.
I think just don't let the hesitation stop you.
Exactly. And I think hesitation is good because
in a way it makes you think about what you're
doing. It makes you be a little bit more prepared
because instead of just being like, oh, let me
call this person, you're like, okay, I need to
call this person. I feel like I should. I'm scared.
What should I say to them? How should I go about
this in a good way? And I think having a little
bit of hesitation is okay. There's a reason our
bodies make us hesitate sometimes, and it's okay.
Just don't let it hold you back. Yeah. Well,
it's really been lovely chatting with you, Dr.
Shirley. I've had a wonderful time. I hope you
have had a wonderful time as well. Yes, this
has been so great. Lovely. And that's a wrap
on this episode of Our Voices, Our Future. We
hope today's conversation inspired you, challenged
you, and reminded you of the power of raising
your voice. The fight for equity doesn't stop
here. Join us in this movement. Subscribe wherever
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