WEBVTT 00:00:18.750 --> 00:00:21.210 Welcome to Our Voice is Our Future, the podcast 00:00:21.210 --> 00:00:23.769 where we amplify the voices driving change and 00:00:23.769 --> 00:00:26.149 equity within medicine and beyond. Brought to 00:00:26.149 --> 00:00:28.350 you by the Gender Equity Task Force, a committee 00:00:28.350 --> 00:00:30.589 of the American Medical Women's Association. 00:00:31.129 --> 00:00:33.030 We're here to challenge storms, break barriers, 00:00:33.270 --> 00:00:35.810 and ignite conversations that matter. I'm Megan 00:00:35.810 --> 00:00:38.270 Etsy, and in each episode, we'll bring you candid 00:00:38.270 --> 00:00:41.009 discussions with leaders, change makers, and 00:00:41.009 --> 00:00:43.109 advocates working to create a more inclusive 00:00:43.109 --> 00:00:46.229 and just world. No more silence, no more waiting. 00:00:46.619 --> 00:00:49.000 You're listening to Our Voices, Our Future. Let's 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:52.000 get into it. Today we're welcoming husband and 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:55.320 wife, Dr. Ebony Anderson and Dr. Daryl Trailer. 00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:58.740 Dr. Anderson serves as the Director of Community 00:00:58.740 --> 00:01:02.039 Oriented Primary Care and an Associate Professor 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:05.569 at the public health at A .T. Still University 00:01:05.569 --> 00:01:08.849 School of Osteopathic Medicine in Arizona. As 00:01:08.849 --> 00:01:11.329 a Detroit native who grew up in an underserved 00:01:11.329 --> 00:01:14.170 area with many odds against her, she brings more 00:01:14.170 --> 00:01:16.489 than two decades of experience as an educator, 00:01:16.810 --> 00:01:19.390 social worker, and public health leader. Her 00:01:19.390 --> 00:01:22.709 work bridges the classroom. clinics, and communities, 00:01:22.769 --> 00:01:25.230 all with a focus on equity, inclusion, and well 00:01:25.230 --> 00:01:28.049 -being. She's also a certified guidance counselor, 00:01:28.349 --> 00:01:30.769 researcher, author, and mentor who's passionate 00:01:30.769 --> 00:01:33.049 about helping others thrive in both academic 00:01:33.049 --> 00:01:35.969 and healthcare spaces. Her research looks at 00:01:35.969 --> 00:01:38.829 resilience among people living and aging with 00:01:38.829 --> 00:01:42.950 HIV and AIDS, the well -being of health professions, 00:01:43.409 --> 00:01:46.590 educators, and staffs, and how we can dismantle 00:01:46.590 --> 00:01:49.450 structural inequities in medical education and 00:01:49.450 --> 00:01:52.200 workforce development. And if that weren't enough, 00:01:52.260 --> 00:01:55.180 she's a six -time college graduate, holding a 00:01:55.180 --> 00:01:57.700 bachelor's degree in English and a master's in 00:01:57.700 --> 00:02:01.060 counseling from Wayne State University, two additional 00:02:01.060 --> 00:02:03.900 master degrees in social work and post -secondary 00:02:03.900 --> 00:02:07.040 education from Arizona State University, and 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:09.539 dual doctorates, one in health education from 00:02:09.539 --> 00:02:12.280 A .T. Still University and another in health 00:02:12.280 --> 00:02:15.740 professions education from Bellamereen University. 00:02:16.139 --> 00:02:18.219 Through her teaching, scholarship, and mentorship, 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:20.800 Dr. Anderson has become a powerful powerful voice 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:23.280 for creating systems that honor equity, compassion, 00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:25.879 and the lived experiences of those they serve. 00:02:26.520 --> 00:02:29.199 Please join me in welcoming Dr. Ebony Anderson. 00:02:29.460 --> 00:02:32.159 Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:35.699 Yeah. And then her husband, another amazing guest 00:02:35.699 --> 00:02:39.060 whose story truly bridges science, service, and 00:02:39.060 --> 00:02:42.819 social impact is Dr. Daryl Trailer. Dr. Trailer 00:02:42.819 --> 00:02:45.840 is a proud alumnus of the Summer Health Professions 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:48.460 Education Program at the University of Alabama 00:02:48.460 --> 00:02:51.810 in Birmingham. and his academic journey is nothing 00:02:51.810 --> 00:02:55.389 short of inspiring. He holds dual bachelor's 00:02:55.389 --> 00:02:57.930 degrees, one in microbiology from Arizona State 00:02:57.930 --> 00:03:00.969 University and another in community health promotion 00:03:00.969 --> 00:03:03.949 from Northern Arizona University, along with 00:03:03.949 --> 00:03:07.189 a master's in pharmacology and an MPH from Michigan 00:03:07.189 --> 00:03:11.060 State University. He went on to earn his PhD 00:03:11.060 --> 00:03:15.759 in nursing with a focus on community -based participatory 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:19.139 research from the University of Missouri, and 00:03:19.139 --> 00:03:22.300 he's currently pursuing both an MD at Oceana 00:03:22.300 --> 00:03:26.939 University of Medicine and a doctor PhD at California 00:03:26.939 --> 00:03:31.000 Baptist University. Before entering academia, 00:03:31.300 --> 00:03:34.360 Dr. Traylor served as a U .S. Army combat medic, 00:03:35.060 --> 00:03:37.879 an experience that continues to shape his commitment 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:40.560 to equity, resilience, and compassionate healthcare. 00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:43.560 Having overcome periods of temporary homelessness 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:46.500 and a vision impairment, he brings both lived 00:03:46.500 --> 00:03:48.919 and professional experience to his mission of 00:03:48.919 --> 00:03:52.030 advancing evidence -based, inclusive care. His 00:03:52.030 --> 00:03:56.270 research explores HIV prevention and PrEP implementation, 00:03:57.250 --> 00:04:00.389 health disparities, sexual misconduct, and safety 00:04:00.389 --> 00:04:03.389 in medical education, and the health effects 00:04:03.389 --> 00:04:06.490 of climate change, all through community engagement 00:04:06.490 --> 00:04:08.990 and translational approaches designed to strengthen 00:04:08.990 --> 00:04:12.689 trust in healthcare systems. Dr. Traylor currently 00:04:12.689 --> 00:04:16.009 serves as Adjunct Faculty in Life Sciences at 00:04:16.009 --> 00:04:18.689 Arizona State University, and in Public Health 00:04:18.689 --> 00:04:21.529 at A .T. Still University. He's also a founding 00:04:21.529 --> 00:04:24.029 faculty member for the new Bachelor of Science 00:04:24.029 --> 00:04:26.810 in Health Science program at Chamberlain University. 00:04:27.389 --> 00:04:30.089 Please join me in welcoming a scholar, educator, 00:04:30.410 --> 00:04:32.769 veteran, and changemaker, Dr. Darrell Traylor. 00:04:32.949 --> 00:04:37.110 Thanks for being here. Hey, y 'all. So let's 00:04:37.110 --> 00:04:39.089 get into it. Let's kind of start with your guys' 00:04:39.269 --> 00:04:41.790 stories. Can you each share a bit of what inspired 00:04:41.790 --> 00:04:45.610 your path into medicine and all of this education 00:04:45.610 --> 00:04:48.189 and degrees and everything you guys have done 00:04:48.189 --> 00:04:50.490 that have kind of shaped the way that you guys 00:04:50.490 --> 00:04:53.550 show up in not only the healthcare fields, but 00:04:53.550 --> 00:04:56.170 kind of just holistically as people who give 00:04:56.170 --> 00:05:02.689 back a bunch? Well, I'll start first. So medicine 00:05:02.689 --> 00:05:05.850 was something that I always wanted to get into 00:05:05.850 --> 00:05:10.470 but I don't think that I don't think that I really 00:05:10.470 --> 00:05:13.029 Truly knew it until I was in my combat medic 00:05:13.029 --> 00:05:14.930 training But I think the first time I really 00:05:14.930 --> 00:05:17.329 felt that medicine was something I want to do 00:05:17.329 --> 00:05:21.910 was probably summer of 1982 I was a kid and my 00:05:21.910 --> 00:05:24.029 mom unfortunately had a long -standing issue 00:05:24.029 --> 00:05:28.149 with substance abuse and there came a day where 00:05:28.149 --> 00:05:30.879 you know, she was high on something and I thought 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:33.759 she was dead because she, you know, wasn't responsive 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:35.939 or anything like that. And I just remember sort 00:05:35.939 --> 00:05:38.339 of sitting there at her side all day, feeling 00:05:38.339 --> 00:05:41.000 this real helplessness, you know, because there 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:43.300 wasn't I didn't know what to do. And I just remember 00:05:43.300 --> 00:05:45.139 telling myself, you know, I wish that I had the 00:05:45.139 --> 00:05:47.740 skills or the knowledge or something to help 00:05:47.740 --> 00:05:52.500 mom. Then later on in life, after I was discharged 00:05:52.500 --> 00:05:55.300 from active duty, one of my best friends from 00:05:55.300 --> 00:06:00.620 the army, Jeff Lucena, he He was HIV positive, 00:06:01.100 --> 00:06:02.620 actually had progressed to full -blown AIDS, 00:06:03.220 --> 00:06:06.839 and his family wouldn't let him go back to Guam 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:10.079 to be buried. His family was very homophobic 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:13.240 and everything, so he spent the last six or seven 00:06:13.240 --> 00:06:17.259 months of his life living with me. And just that 00:06:17.259 --> 00:06:19.959 process of trying to care for him and seeing 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:23.379 all the barriers that folks with HIV and AIDS 00:06:23.379 --> 00:06:26.980 faced was really, really very eye -opening. you 00:06:26.980 --> 00:06:28.860 know, to me. And that was just something that 00:06:28.860 --> 00:06:32.240 continued to contribute, you know, to this desire 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:35.040 to get into medicine. And then later as I met 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:38.399 Ebony's father, or Ebony, in 2006, and then subsequently 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:43.060 met her father, you know, he unfortunately passed 00:06:43.060 --> 00:06:47.660 away. He was HIV positive, but HIV wasn't what 00:06:47.660 --> 00:06:49.459 killed him. It was actually medical ignorance. 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:52.139 You know, the people at the hospital where he 00:06:52.139 --> 00:06:55.829 died. We're afraid to do a needed surgery because 00:06:55.829 --> 00:06:59.490 of his HIV status. They essentially let him die. 00:06:59.769 --> 00:07:02.970 And so all of these stories just sort of come 00:07:02.970 --> 00:07:07.569 together for me and kind of inform this desire 00:07:07.569 --> 00:07:10.290 to practice medicine. All the degrees, though, 00:07:10.569 --> 00:07:13.069 I just think me and Ebony are crazy or something. 00:07:13.089 --> 00:07:15.910 I don't know. I just I love learning. You know, 00:07:15.910 --> 00:07:17.189 we get it. We get it. You know, my grandmother 00:07:17.189 --> 00:07:19.910 always told me, son, get as much education as 00:07:19.910 --> 00:07:21.930 you can, because people can't take that from 00:07:21.930 --> 00:07:25.660 you. And so as long as I still have goals, something 00:07:25.660 --> 00:07:28.579 to chase, then it just sort of excites me and 00:07:28.579 --> 00:07:31.759 just keeps me going. That's awesome. Yeah, thank 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:36.139 you. Ebony, what do you got? Yeah, I mean, Darrell 00:07:36.139 --> 00:07:39.139 covered pretty much everything that, you know, 00:07:39.279 --> 00:07:42.680 I feel about this. But just to add to it, you 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:45.680 know, as someone who is not a physician, you 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:48.160 know, someone who has training in behavioral 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:52.300 and social science, I, for one, you know, feel 00:07:52.300 --> 00:07:57.019 that it is a call of duty to do this work, particularly 00:07:57.019 --> 00:08:00.600 teaching students who are pursuing health professions 00:08:00.600 --> 00:08:05.339 and more specifically medical education on the 00:08:05.339 --> 00:08:07.279 social determinants of health because of the 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:09.939 public health background. And more than that, 00:08:10.019 --> 00:08:12.600 deeper than that, as Daryl said, it's a personal 00:08:12.600 --> 00:08:16.220 feeling for me. It's a personal experience because 00:08:16.220 --> 00:08:18.620 I've lost not just my father, but I've lost my 00:08:18.620 --> 00:08:24.519 mom. you know, along this journey. And, you know, 00:08:24.860 --> 00:08:29.160 I can't stress enough, you know, that when a 00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:32.720 person decides to pursue a very important role, 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:36.399 such as a physician or, you know, medical role, 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:41.559 to have compassion. And so for me, I love sharing 00:08:41.559 --> 00:08:45.159 personal stories with my students every day about 00:08:45.159 --> 00:08:48.580 why I feel it's important to do this work. And 00:08:48.580 --> 00:08:52.480 add to that, Darrell is really the main reason 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:55.539 why I decided to stick this as a profession. 00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:59.100 So when I met Darrell back in 2006, he told me, 00:08:59.240 --> 00:09:00.980 first and foremost, he said, look, Ebony, I'm 00:09:00.980 --> 00:09:04.580 broke. I don't have any money. I am a student 00:09:04.580 --> 00:09:07.460 who's pursuing medicine. My goal is to be a doctor 00:09:07.460 --> 00:09:11.330 one day. First and foremost, I'm like, I'm not 00:09:11.330 --> 00:09:13.870 trying to date him for money, you know, at the 00:09:13.870 --> 00:09:16.389 time I wasn't rich. I've never been rich, but 00:09:16.389 --> 00:09:19.350 I had my own money, had my own occupation, you 00:09:19.350 --> 00:09:21.190 know, was a early career professional working 00:09:21.190 --> 00:09:25.309 in the state of Michigan at that time. But all 00:09:25.309 --> 00:09:27.169 that to say is that I was really intrigued by 00:09:27.169 --> 00:09:31.070 his story and I really didn't understand all 00:09:31.070 --> 00:09:35.370 that it took to to pursue not only get into a 00:09:35.370 --> 00:09:38.009 medical school but you know all the prerequisites 00:09:38.009 --> 00:09:41.970 that are required to do so right and for you 00:09:41.970 --> 00:09:43.769 know as i'm learning more and more about Darryl 00:09:43.769 --> 00:09:46.509 and his background and the fact that he was a 00:09:46.509 --> 00:09:49.750 career changer he was a army veteran and you 00:09:49.750 --> 00:09:52.110 know all these things i'm like you know to me 00:09:52.110 --> 00:09:55.330 i just thought a plus b equals c i thought it 00:09:55.330 --> 00:09:58.509 was a linear path i realized it's not always 00:09:58.509 --> 00:10:02.639 linear and I do have respect for those students 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:05.580 who do have the means to just go straight through, 00:10:05.740 --> 00:10:07.820 you know, from undergraduate straight into medical 00:10:07.820 --> 00:10:12.730 school. However, comma, my deeper interest. are 00:10:12.730 --> 00:10:15.570 in those who have lived experience, much like 00:10:15.570 --> 00:10:17.250 Darrell's, or if not like Darrell's, they have 00:10:17.250 --> 00:10:20.049 their own story to tell, where they took a gap 00:10:20.049 --> 00:10:23.570 year, maybe took several gap years, were career 00:10:23.570 --> 00:10:26.549 changers, decided to start a family first, decided 00:10:26.549 --> 00:10:31.350 to backpack first, you know, see the world, you 00:10:31.350 --> 00:10:34.139 know, came to that epiphany. you know, that medicine 00:10:34.139 --> 00:10:36.460 is where they belong. Those are the students 00:10:36.460 --> 00:10:39.379 that I gravitate toward the most and I really 00:10:39.379 --> 00:10:41.679 want to support those who feel like they don't 00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:45.080 have a chance in this space. And so that's why 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:48.620 I do what I do, honestly. And as Daryl said, 00:10:48.779 --> 00:10:51.220 you know, life is about learning. And no, it 00:10:51.220 --> 00:10:53.279 doesn't always require that formal education. 00:10:53.500 --> 00:10:56.559 But for me personally, I'm a nerd. I love to 00:10:56.559 --> 00:11:01.210 learn. My dad left that legacy. He said no one 00:11:01.210 --> 00:11:04.230 could take away your education sugar sugar. So, 00:11:04.629 --> 00:11:06.289 you know, I don't think he thought I would go 00:11:06.289 --> 00:11:11.330 this far with degrees, but I will say right before 00:11:11.330 --> 00:11:13.610 I lost him, I had just earned my first master's 00:11:13.610 --> 00:11:17.889 degree. And when Daryl and my dad at dinner for 00:11:17.889 --> 00:11:21.110 the first time, they started running from my 00:11:21.110 --> 00:11:25.029 trajectory. You remember that dinner table first 00:11:25.029 --> 00:11:27.409 time around, you know, a girl came to Detroit 00:11:27.409 --> 00:11:29.990 to see what it was about, and actually he was 00:11:29.990 --> 00:11:31.929 interested in the University of Michigan's MD 00:11:31.929 --> 00:11:35.750 -PhD program, but of course... he and I had talked 00:11:35.750 --> 00:11:38.110 long enough, like a couple months or so, and 00:11:38.110 --> 00:11:40.809 I said, well, I want to meet my parents. And 00:11:40.809 --> 00:11:43.149 there was Dad and Daryl talking about, oh, I 00:11:43.149 --> 00:11:46.169 can see her going for that PhD, and I can see 00:11:46.169 --> 00:11:49.110 her maybe doing something political. And I'm 00:11:49.110 --> 00:11:54.090 saying, no, you can't. I'm just good with my 00:11:54.090 --> 00:11:56.789 masters in counseling. I'm going to get my license 00:11:56.789 --> 00:11:59.269 to practice as a counselor and go into private 00:11:59.269 --> 00:12:05.929 practice and to story. Well, Was it? Yeah. Right. 00:12:06.610 --> 00:12:09.909 And so when I lost him lost my dad that is a 00:12:09.909 --> 00:12:14.129 couple months later. I obviously was in a very 00:12:14.129 --> 00:12:16.690 dark space had never lost anybody that close 00:12:16.690 --> 00:12:19.070 to me before. Yeah, I lost my grandma, but I 00:12:19.070 --> 00:12:22.950 was like 10. But you know, after that, I had 00:12:22.950 --> 00:12:25.889 never lost anybody as close as my dad. And my 00:12:25.889 --> 00:12:27.710 dad and I were really close. I was a daddy's 00:12:27.710 --> 00:12:31.009 girl. And I admired the work that he did in public 00:12:31.009 --> 00:12:34.850 health and social work, you know, health policy, 00:12:35.049 --> 00:12:37.590 you know, all those things that I never thought 00:12:37.590 --> 00:12:41.389 I could do, you know, because he spoke out unapologetically 00:12:41.389 --> 00:12:45.250 about living with HIV and being a gay man and, 00:12:45.250 --> 00:12:47.850 you know, the rights of women, you know, so he 00:12:47.850 --> 00:12:52.149 really was all about making equity, fair for 00:12:52.149 --> 00:12:55.210 everybody across the table, meaning that there 00:12:55.210 --> 00:12:57.470 wasn't one particular area that he targeted. 00:12:57.610 --> 00:13:00.649 He wanted to help all people in his short life. 00:13:01.750 --> 00:13:04.470 But because he had these intersections of identity, 00:13:05.070 --> 00:13:08.269 it made sense for him to be an advocate as well 00:13:08.269 --> 00:13:11.990 as an activist with HIV and LGBTQ plus rights 00:13:11.990 --> 00:13:15.590 and so on and so forth. And so I could never 00:13:15.590 --> 00:13:18.580 fill his shoes. But I said, you know what, maybe 00:13:18.580 --> 00:13:20.740 just maybe a little bit of information I got 00:13:20.740 --> 00:13:23.879 from him. Um, cause I was pretty young when he 00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:26.740 died. I was only 28. I said, you know, I want 00:13:26.740 --> 00:13:29.200 to continue that legacy in some way. So here 00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:32.759 I am, you know, researching still stand on top 00:13:32.759 --> 00:13:35.500 of the latest information when it comes to HIV. 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:39.820 Um, you know, you name it, you know, it's like, 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:41.860 I just want to put my, my finger on a pulse on 00:13:41.860 --> 00:13:45.440 things that relate to helping patients and hoping. 00:13:45.629 --> 00:13:49.110 the community as a whole. So I'm actually going 00:13:49.110 --> 00:13:51.090 to jump around a little bit. My questions I had 00:13:51.090 --> 00:13:52.809 prepared for you guys, because I feel like this 00:13:52.809 --> 00:13:56.210 fits right into it and talking about your guys' 00:13:56.429 --> 00:14:01.470 resilience. You guys have done so much to get 00:14:01.470 --> 00:14:04.330 through so many degrees and just advocate for 00:14:04.330 --> 00:14:07.789 so many people. This takes a ton of resilience. 00:14:08.090 --> 00:14:11.330 And can you kind of talk about how that's navigated 00:14:11.330 --> 00:14:13.149 in your professional roles? How have you guys 00:14:13.149 --> 00:14:21.659 gone about this? Oh, man. You know, I learned 00:14:21.659 --> 00:14:24.759 at a very early age that life is not a linear 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:27.779 path. There's lots of shades of gray. There's 00:14:27.779 --> 00:14:31.840 lots of ups and downs. You know, like, for example, 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:34.539 when I decided to go back for my undergrad studies, 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:38.500 starting in 2005, I was visually impaired. There 00:14:38.500 --> 00:14:40.500 was, you know, the courses you read in my bio, 00:14:40.539 --> 00:14:43.320 there was a point in time where I was unhoused. 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:47.159 And, you know, my grandmother, you know always 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:50.039 told me in life you just got two choices you 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:53.080 can stand and fight or you can fold like cardboard 00:14:53.080 --> 00:14:58.080 and so my default has always been to stand and 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:01.000 fight if there's you know things that you want 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:04.500 in life you just have to push for them so i'll 00:15:04.500 --> 00:15:07.299 share with you and your listeners i don't think 00:15:07.299 --> 00:15:10.299 uh i would even share it with you megan and all 00:15:10.299 --> 00:15:12.980 the time we've worked together so i actually 00:15:12.980 --> 00:15:16.080 was a u .s medical student at one point I was 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:23.399 at a DO school in San Antonio and my first term 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:25.279 I had to take a leave of absence because I had 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:27.320 to have a cornea transplant so going back to 00:15:27.320 --> 00:15:29.820 the visual impairment and back to school was 00:15:29.820 --> 00:15:34.320 doing well and I ran into GI Anatomy and failed 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:37.039 that portion of the final exam so I was told 00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:40.759 to repeat the year, repeat of the year, got to 00:15:40.759 --> 00:15:44.049 GI Anatomy final again and failed and they said 00:15:44.049 --> 00:15:47.009 okay Darryl we're gonna dismiss you and so you 00:15:47.009 --> 00:15:49.129 know me and Ebony you know talked about it you 00:15:49.129 --> 00:15:51.649 know she said okay Darryl cry you know whatever 00:15:51.649 --> 00:15:54.549 you got to do right now get that out of you but 00:15:54.549 --> 00:15:57.169 then tomorrow we got to make a decision about 00:15:57.169 --> 00:16:00.269 what to do and so you know I cried and then I 00:16:00.269 --> 00:16:01.549 said you know what I'm gonna go ahead and take 00:16:01.549 --> 00:16:03.730 a withdrawal instead of letting them dismiss 00:16:03.730 --> 00:16:07.509 me and immediately enrolled in Oceana and now 00:16:07.509 --> 00:16:11.220 I'm doing fine um but I say that to say that 00:16:11.220 --> 00:16:13.899 if you want something in life, you have to push 00:16:13.899 --> 00:16:15.919 for it. You have to grind and you got to struggle. 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:17.980 It's not going to be easy. And I think that's 00:16:17.980 --> 00:16:21.320 more important now, given what we're facing politically. 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:25.620 You know, like so the last institution I taught 00:16:25.620 --> 00:16:29.159 at a student told on I was teaching, I was teaching. 00:16:30.059 --> 00:16:33.240 What was that course? Social determinants of 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:36.379 health in the MPH. And there was a student in 00:16:36.379 --> 00:16:38.759 his performance evaluation. He said, you know, 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:41.679 Dr. Trailer was fine. But he had too much emphasis 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:45.820 on women and LGBT health, not enough on white 00:16:45.820 --> 00:16:49.559 males. So he ended up reporting me to the U .S. 00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:51.559 Department of Education. A few weeks after that, 00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:53.779 the school got a letter, you know, saying we're 00:16:53.779 --> 00:16:55.659 going to be investigating the MPH and we're going 00:16:55.659 --> 00:16:58.039 to be investigating Dr. Traylor. We want all 00:16:58.039 --> 00:17:01.399 of his emails. That's the kind of thing that 00:17:01.399 --> 00:17:04.380 could have scared me. Yeah. And as you know, 00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:06.539 because, you know, we work together on our gender 00:17:06.539 --> 00:17:08.579 studies project, you know, for the last almost 00:17:08.579 --> 00:17:12.240 year. you know, that kind of pressure could scare 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:15.799 somebody. But you have to have resilience and 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:18.339 you have to be fearless in the face of that kind 00:17:18.339 --> 00:17:21.299 of stuff to keep doing the work you have to do. 00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:23.039 And I'm not going to sit here and tell you that 00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:25.359 I'm not scared of things like that. I'm not going 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:27.720 to sit here and tell you that, you know, starting 00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:31.180 over in medical school was easy. But these are 00:17:31.180 --> 00:17:33.420 the things that I'm passionate about. And this 00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:35.339 is what I'm just going to continue to do. And, 00:17:35.619 --> 00:17:38.359 you know, Thank God, you know, I've got a wonderful 00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:41.259 wife who was helping to push me forward. But, 00:17:41.380 --> 00:17:43.180 you know, you just have to stand tough and stand 00:17:43.180 --> 00:17:50.180 on your belief. Yep. Well said, Daryl. Gosh, 00:17:50.500 --> 00:17:51.960 you always have the best answers. I don't know 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:56.200 how to follow up behind that. But, you know, 00:17:56.220 --> 00:17:59.960 really simply, I feel that resilience is grounded 00:17:59.960 --> 00:18:05.220 in community and purpose, right? For me, I've 00:18:05.220 --> 00:18:07.259 always questioned. What is my purpose in life? 00:18:07.380 --> 00:18:10.279 What am I meant to do in life? Who am I? What 00:18:10.279 --> 00:18:12.579 am I? You know, it always comes with a little 00:18:12.579 --> 00:18:17.619 bit of, you know, self -defeating, if you will, 00:18:17.779 --> 00:18:20.619 self -defeating words. So, you know, negative 00:18:20.619 --> 00:18:24.859 self -talk, if it makes sense. However, part 00:18:24.859 --> 00:18:27.700 of that is constantly asking my question, why? 00:18:28.339 --> 00:18:31.720 Right. And I remember back in the day when I 00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:33.900 was in Detroit and I'd be driving into work and 00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:37.039 I used to listen to WJLB FM 98, one of our R 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:38.920 &B stations and they'd have to talk radio in 00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:42.319 the morning and they always had the comedians 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:45.059 on and so one of the comedians I credit for this, 00:18:45.180 --> 00:18:48.319 his name is Foolish, still around, still funny 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:50.519 as I don't know what, but he would say in the 00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:52.720 morning, God gave you another day, what are you 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:55.779 going to do with it? And I still stick with that, 00:18:55.779 --> 00:18:59.519 like even on those hardest days of life when 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:01.039 you just don't want to face it. You just want 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:05.099 to stay in bed. You think about a I'm awake, 00:19:05.099 --> 00:19:08.900 you know, it's sometimes it's okay to do nothing. 00:19:09.099 --> 00:19:11.440 You know, I'm really trying to lean into that 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:13.480 as I get older, you know, I'm reaching that middle 00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:16.599 age. And I'm like, you do have to practice that 00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:19.119 pause and practice taking a break and you don't 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:21.859 have to constantly be on 10 doing everything 00:19:21.859 --> 00:19:25.259 for everybody. But it's still a work in progress, 00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:28.910 right? and leaning into your community, you know, 00:19:28.950 --> 00:19:32.190 leaning into your social systems to get things 00:19:32.190 --> 00:19:35.990 done. But going back to the whole feeling of 00:19:35.990 --> 00:19:39.269 community, one of the things I'll never forget 00:19:39.269 --> 00:19:41.650 was when I was completing my first dissertation, 00:19:42.150 --> 00:19:46.470 and it was on women living and aging with HIV 00:19:46.470 --> 00:19:51.410 in an urban area. And I have some really good 00:19:51.410 --> 00:19:55.170 friends who were colleagues of my dad. that I 00:19:55.170 --> 00:19:58.269 reached out to. And they run a support group 00:19:58.269 --> 00:20:02.329 with these women who, you know, again, are living 00:20:02.329 --> 00:20:04.349 their lives, living their best lives, if you 00:20:04.349 --> 00:20:08.069 will. Not easy, but, you know, they are in their 00:20:08.069 --> 00:20:13.029 50s and 60s and 70s. And I needed, you know, 00:20:13.609 --> 00:20:15.910 participants to complete my research. And so 00:20:15.910 --> 00:20:17.970 I didn't want to be one of those helicopter research 00:20:17.970 --> 00:20:20.680 type people. I mean, I'm truly embedded. I'm 00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:22.759 here for the cause. And I think that's why my 00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:25.079 friends know this. And so they invited me to 00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:27.640 one of their support groups. I've flown from 00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:31.460 Phoenix to Detroit. And one of the things that 00:20:31.460 --> 00:20:34.759 they did first, these ladies, was hug me, embrace 00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:39.259 me, and said, we are your mothers. That's community. 00:20:39.940 --> 00:20:42.039 And just looking at them and hearing their stories 00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:46.099 of how they have had to overcome the challenges 00:20:46.099 --> 00:20:50.109 of stigma. overcome the challenges of resources, 00:20:50.890 --> 00:20:53.930 you know, having to continue going about your 00:20:53.930 --> 00:20:56.230 day -to -day lives, I mean, dating, you know, 00:20:56.289 --> 00:20:59.630 I even met women who were in the process of getting 00:20:59.630 --> 00:21:02.710 married or were newlyweds, and, you know, it 00:21:02.710 --> 00:21:04.769 wasn't all peachy keen, no, you know what I mean? 00:21:05.069 --> 00:21:09.769 Because as far as they shared on how they contracted 00:21:09.769 --> 00:21:13.210 HIV were very sad, you know, many times it had 00:21:13.210 --> 00:21:17.789 to do with betrayal or you know again non -disclosure 00:21:17.789 --> 00:21:20.089 from their partner you know someone that they 00:21:20.089 --> 00:21:22.329 may have been committed to for a very long time 00:21:22.329 --> 00:21:25.089 for years and then you know that happened and 00:21:25.089 --> 00:21:29.289 so um all that to say is that i think that resilience 00:21:29.289 --> 00:21:33.789 is is something that you just no longer you just 00:21:33.789 --> 00:21:35.730 you're not adapting but you're adapting with 00:21:35.730 --> 00:21:38.349 the intention right you know you're you know 00:21:38.349 --> 00:21:40.109 you're not just going along you know going on 00:21:40.109 --> 00:21:43.890 a long life like hey you know such is life you 00:21:43.890 --> 00:21:48.410 are intentional about bouncing back about making 00:21:48.410 --> 00:21:52.450 changes about pivoting when you have to and when 00:21:52.450 --> 00:21:55.509 it comes to this profession as we know medical 00:21:55.509 --> 00:21:58.150 you know anything dealing with medicine from 00:21:58.150 --> 00:22:01.849 medical school to the profession itself involves 00:22:01.849 --> 00:22:05.930 bias and burnout constantly and so you have to 00:22:05.930 --> 00:22:09.609 continue to reaffirm you know why are you in 00:22:09.609 --> 00:22:12.769 it why do you do the work that you do you know 00:22:13.649 --> 00:22:17.670 You really do have to take a moment to sue yourself. 00:22:18.769 --> 00:22:20.210 And unfortunately, some people are in it for 00:22:20.210 --> 00:22:23.589 the wrong reasons. We know that. But I also know 00:22:23.589 --> 00:22:26.089 how hard it is to get there, how hard it is to 00:22:26.089 --> 00:22:29.250 maintain and sustain on a day -to -day basis. 00:22:29.309 --> 00:22:33.079 It's not just about the money. When, you know, 00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:35.599 I think resilience in the medical profession, 00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:38.279 you know, I can't help but to think about the 00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:41.240 stories I hear every day from my colleagues and, 00:22:41.259 --> 00:22:44.799 you know, from the students who graduated from 00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:47.839 our mentees, you know, who are either in residency 00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:50.640 now or, you know, about to become from attendings. 00:22:50.900 --> 00:22:55.559 It's a lot of work. And so just staying above. 00:22:55.930 --> 00:22:59.630 you know, above just the level of average. You 00:22:59.630 --> 00:23:03.490 know what I mean? When they call that high bar 00:23:03.490 --> 00:23:08.349 is something we have to consider every day. Thank 00:23:08.349 --> 00:23:12.250 you. Ofno, I will edit this part out. I'm going 00:23:12.250 --> 00:23:15.180 to jump down. this is formed like very different 00:23:15.180 --> 00:23:17.819 than I thought it was going to be. So I'm only 00:23:17.819 --> 00:23:19.640 going to ask two more questions, but I think 00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:21.960 we need to get together and do one particularly 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:24.339 on gender inequity. I think this one's kind of 00:23:24.339 --> 00:23:26.880 more about your guys's like journey and how you've 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:29.559 gotten through and how you've been lifelong advocates. 00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:32.619 So if that's cool with you guys. Yeah. Okay. 00:23:33.789 --> 00:23:38.250 So can you guys tell me how have you seen mentorship 00:23:38.250 --> 00:23:41.549 and representation kind of influence your guys's 00:23:41.549 --> 00:23:44.589 approach to you both teach, you both support 00:23:44.589 --> 00:23:47.950 many health professionals. How have you guys 00:23:47.950 --> 00:23:54.109 seen this play a role? So for me, and this is 00:23:54.109 --> 00:23:56.309 something that Ebony is going to be hearing for 00:23:56.309 --> 00:24:00.809 the first time. So I didn't have a lot of mentors 00:24:00.809 --> 00:24:04.920 academically. And so when me and Ebony first 00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:09.799 met, we used to exchange writings, you know, 00:24:09.980 --> 00:24:12.559 through email. And so she sent me a copy of her 00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:15.579 first master's thesis. And at that time, I'd 00:24:15.579 --> 00:24:18.700 just gone back to undergrad and I was taking 00:24:18.700 --> 00:24:21.160 an English class, a world literature class, actually, 00:24:21.180 --> 00:24:23.700 and I wasn't doing terribly well because I wasn't 00:24:23.700 --> 00:24:27.980 a good writer. And so to teach myself how to 00:24:27.980 --> 00:24:31.039 write, I actually studied Ebony's dissertation. 00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:34.019 And then later she sent me some writings of her 00:24:34.019 --> 00:24:37.099 father. And he was a very elegant writer in his 00:24:37.099 --> 00:24:39.559 own right. And so I studied their writing. And 00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:41.579 so the two of them don't know that they were 00:24:41.579 --> 00:24:47.779 mentors to me in doing that. And as I went through 00:24:47.779 --> 00:24:51.799 my undergrad studies, at Arizona State University 00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:55.119 at that time, the folks who ran the pre -med 00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:57.930 office they wouldn't even much talk to you if 00:24:57.930 --> 00:25:00.630 you wouldn't come in there with a 3 .8 GPA and 00:25:00.630 --> 00:25:02.710 you know, we're the perfect student, right? You 00:25:02.710 --> 00:25:06.009 probably know some of what that is like. And 00:25:06.009 --> 00:25:10.190 then of course in that ASU, a lot of faculty 00:25:10.190 --> 00:25:13.710 wouldn't mentor you if you weren't that perfect 00:25:13.710 --> 00:25:17.069 student on paper. So I really struggled with 00:25:17.069 --> 00:25:20.009 finding mentors through my undergrad career. 00:25:20.670 --> 00:25:24.009 So one of the things that I said when I started, 00:25:24.920 --> 00:25:26.880 you know my master's degree was that if I was 00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:30.420 ever in a position to mentor other people I wouldn't 00:25:30.420 --> 00:25:34.920 turn them down because of a GPA or whatever you 00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:36.720 know it's like if somebody's coming to me with 00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:39.140 a need then I have a responsibility to help with 00:25:39.140 --> 00:25:41.339 that with that need and that's what I've done 00:25:41.339 --> 00:25:44.920 but I think probably for me the most transformative 00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:49.480 experience for in the terms of mentorship actually 00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:53.119 happened during COVID so me and Ebony We're working 00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:56.259 with one of our longtime mentors and friends, 00:25:56.599 --> 00:25:59.299 Dr. Melba Thompson Robinson. And through her, 00:25:59.339 --> 00:26:01.920 we got to meet Carolee Dodge Francis, Dr. Carolee 00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:04.420 Dodge Francis. For me, this was the first time 00:26:04.420 --> 00:26:08.119 I had ever worked on a totally woman led research 00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:12.920 study, right? And I was the only guy on the team, 00:26:13.460 --> 00:26:17.319 all female, all women. And that was very powerful 00:26:17.319 --> 00:26:21.160 because I got to see the importance of mentorship 00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:25.359 for women in STEM, because there are so many 00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:28.119 women who want to get into STEM, but again, can't 00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:31.839 find adequate mentors. They can't find mentors 00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:33.440 who will treat them fairly. One of the things 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:37.859 that Dr. Thompson Robinson and Dr. Francis insisted 00:26:37.859 --> 00:26:40.700 upon was that everybody on a research team had 00:26:40.700 --> 00:26:44.559 the opportunity to have first authorship on at 00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:48.279 least one research product. And that is incredibly 00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:51.349 important. uh, in the world of STEM, particularly 00:26:51.349 --> 00:26:54.009 for those who are maybe going on for PhDs or 00:26:54.009 --> 00:26:56.750 research, uh, uh, careers themselves. And so 00:26:56.750 --> 00:27:00.029 I've sort of adopted that, you know, myself. 00:27:01.009 --> 00:27:06.269 Um, first hand, I have been through your and 00:27:06.269 --> 00:27:08.890 your mentorship. I, like you were speaking these 00:27:08.890 --> 00:27:10.829 things and I'm like, I already know this about 00:27:10.829 --> 00:27:13.890 you. Obviously you are that mentor now to me. 00:27:13.970 --> 00:27:17.380 It's been so cool. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and you 00:27:17.380 --> 00:27:20.859 know if God lets me live long enough You know 00:27:20.859 --> 00:27:23.819 I want to see you Take what you've learned from 00:27:23.819 --> 00:27:26.339 me and ebony and pay that for cuz that that's 00:27:26.339 --> 00:27:36.380 how we get ourselves out of this. Yeah Just to 00:27:36.380 --> 00:27:39.359 add to it, you know for me it's guidance and 00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:43.920 affirmation of course It's almost like kinship 00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:48.170 sometimes right And I say this because, as Daryl 00:27:48.170 --> 00:27:51.009 said, Dr. Thompson Robinson and Dr. Dodge Francis 00:27:51.009 --> 00:27:55.069 and myself had just written a chapter for a book 00:27:55.069 --> 00:27:58.329 that talked about academic aunties, or academic 00:27:58.329 --> 00:28:00.210 aunties, depending on how you say it. I call 00:28:00.210 --> 00:28:06.369 it auntie status. But also academic uncles and 00:28:06.369 --> 00:28:09.410 whatnot. But the whole point of that is being 00:28:09.410 --> 00:28:14.250 able to pull someone out of those depths of feeling 00:28:14.250 --> 00:28:18.289 like they don't belong right those who feel unseen 00:28:18.289 --> 00:28:22.029 or unheard and giving them their voice giving 00:28:22.029 --> 00:28:25.269 them the attention guiding them on that path 00:28:25.269 --> 00:28:30.109 you know not just academically right and obviously 00:28:30.109 --> 00:28:33.430 professionally but also pouring into them giving 00:28:33.430 --> 00:28:36.950 them the self -esteem you know, to feel like 00:28:36.950 --> 00:28:39.190 they are worth something and that they truly 00:28:39.190 --> 00:28:42.970 belong in these spaces. And I say it all the 00:28:42.970 --> 00:28:46.269 time, I say it at work, I say it anytime somebody 00:28:46.269 --> 00:28:49.230 wants to have this discussion about mentorship 00:28:49.230 --> 00:28:51.950 and equity and whatnot. I say representation 00:28:51.950 --> 00:28:58.970 matters. And to me, in order to be represented, 00:28:59.470 --> 00:29:02.250 you can't be afraid to be in those spaces, right? 00:29:02.569 --> 00:29:06.490 So again, be unapologetic when you are sitting 00:29:06.490 --> 00:29:08.750 at the table. And if you're not able to get a 00:29:08.750 --> 00:29:11.990 seat at the table, you just knock on that door, 00:29:12.109 --> 00:29:14.650 bam it down, whatever you got to do to get in 00:29:14.650 --> 00:29:19.670 there or even create your own table. And people 00:29:19.670 --> 00:29:24.329 eventually want to sit where you are. So to me, 00:29:24.410 --> 00:29:28.930 I think that When we talk about this in the context 00:29:28.930 --> 00:29:33.490 of medicine, again, my goal was not just an educator, 00:29:34.349 --> 00:29:36.509 you know, I also feel like it's important to 00:29:36.509 --> 00:29:40.490 be a faculty advisor, you know, or mentor somebody 00:29:40.490 --> 00:29:44.670 that students feel safe coming to, not just to 00:29:44.670 --> 00:29:47.509 talk about their struggles with an exam, but 00:29:47.509 --> 00:29:51.710 to talk about what life, you know, is all about 00:29:51.710 --> 00:29:56.059 and how they see themselves in the future. And 00:29:56.059 --> 00:29:59.579 if they can't see it, my goal is to, again, gently 00:29:59.579 --> 00:30:02.559 guide them on that path, redirect, and have them 00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:05.400 be thinking again about why is it that I'm pursuing 00:30:05.400 --> 00:30:09.420 this? Through the years, I've had plenty of students, 00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:13.519 some who unfortunately didn't make it, whatever 00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:16.900 reason they were dismissed or were told they 00:30:16.900 --> 00:30:19.480 couldn't return or they took a withdrawal. And 00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:21.460 I still stay in touch with any of those students. 00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:25.500 And I'm like, okay, maybe medicine wasn't your 00:30:25.500 --> 00:30:28.380 calling, right? You know, I would have stuck 00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:30.339 with you and fought with you all the way through. 00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:35.299 However, pivoting is okay sometimes too, right? 00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:38.839 And so writing those letters of recommendation, 00:30:39.640 --> 00:30:43.740 you know, being someone that they can come to 00:30:43.740 --> 00:30:47.400 with, you know, hey, do you have information 00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:50.319 about scholarships? Like, you know, somebody 00:30:50.319 --> 00:30:54.319 that you feel you can approach. when it comes 00:30:54.319 --> 00:30:57.700 to learning and growing in your own life is what 00:30:57.700 --> 00:31:01.319 I value as a mentor and what I value as a mentee. 00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:06.180 So that's my two cents. Yeah. So I think to hop 00:31:06.180 --> 00:31:08.279 right off of where Ebony was leading us, can 00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:11.039 you guys give just like, if you had one solid 00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:14.940 piece of advice for students or early professionals, 00:31:15.259 --> 00:31:18.140 especially women and different marginalized voices 00:31:18.140 --> 00:31:21.700 who aspire to lead with this purpose and create 00:31:21.700 --> 00:31:23.420 meaningful change with the medicine, what would 00:31:23.420 --> 00:31:27.740 you have to say to them? You know, I would say 00:31:27.740 --> 00:31:29.680 again, you know, the path isn't always straight, 00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:32.380 but if you have the strength for the fight, And 00:31:32.380 --> 00:31:37.380 if you stand 10 toes down on that, because that's 00:31:37.380 --> 00:31:40.319 the biggest thing is whatever you want in life, 00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:43.220 I don't care how big or how small it is, you 00:31:43.220 --> 00:31:46.440 have to stand 10 toes down on your purpose, period, 00:31:46.599 --> 00:31:50.859 point blank. If you do that, you will reach the 00:31:50.859 --> 00:31:54.359 goal. Understand that you'll get knocked down. 00:31:54.539 --> 00:31:56.519 But one of the things that I've learned in life 00:31:56.519 --> 00:32:00.920 is that there's learning and value in every experience 00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:04.109 we go through. good or bad provided that you're 00:32:04.109 --> 00:32:06.750 willing to learn from that experience and apply 00:32:06.750 --> 00:32:09.970 the lessons and if you do that you'll absolutely 00:32:09.970 --> 00:32:14.990 reach your goals. That's solid and then for me 00:32:14.990 --> 00:32:17.309 I'll just say lead with authenticity and courage 00:32:17.309 --> 00:32:20.369 you know don't wait for permission to take up 00:32:20.369 --> 00:32:23.750 space you know advocate for equity don't be afraid 00:32:23.750 --> 00:32:29.390 I know that these are hard times but hey My thing 00:32:29.390 --> 00:32:33.029 is, until somebody literally wants to silence 00:32:33.029 --> 00:32:34.910 me, put some tape over my mouth and tell me to 00:32:34.910 --> 00:32:38.410 shut up, I'm not shutting up. I keep doing what 00:32:38.410 --> 00:32:42.809 I do. Do it real. Make my parents proud. Make 00:32:42.809 --> 00:32:46.329 my ancestors proud. And also, find your community. 00:32:47.049 --> 00:32:50.750 Find your people, is what I say. Nurture your 00:32:50.750 --> 00:32:53.309 voice. And just remember, the impact doesn't 00:32:53.309 --> 00:32:56.289 always start with a title. Right. You know, I 00:32:56.289 --> 00:32:59.509 don't relish the fact that I'm a double doctor, 00:32:59.509 --> 00:33:02.609 you know, to my friends, my family, you know, 00:33:02.690 --> 00:33:05.009 even to some of my students on first name basis. 00:33:05.049 --> 00:33:07.490 So it's not all about the titles of the degrees, 00:33:07.789 --> 00:33:11.029 you know, you know, you really should be leading 00:33:11.029 --> 00:33:14.410 with, you know, a level of conviction and consistency. 00:33:14.509 --> 00:33:19.190 Right. And so. That's the advice I give. Don't 00:33:19.190 --> 00:33:21.849 let things go to your head always. You know what 00:33:21.849 --> 00:33:24.650 I mean? Stay humble. You know what Kendra Lamar 00:33:24.650 --> 00:33:31.670 say? So that's my takeaway for that. I love it. 00:33:31.789 --> 00:33:33.710 Thank you guys so much. This has been a great 00:33:33.710 --> 00:33:35.710 talk and we're going to have to have so many 00:33:35.710 --> 00:33:37.609 more episodes to talk about all of your work 00:33:37.609 --> 00:33:41.250 in real life. It's been awesome. So that's a 00:33:41.250 --> 00:33:43.450 wrap on this episode of Our Voice is Our Future. 00:33:43.769 --> 00:33:46.390 We hope today's conversation inspired you, challenged 00:33:46.390 --> 00:33:48.849 you, and remind you of the power of raising your 00:33:48.849 --> 00:33:51.410 voice. The fight for equity doesn't stop here. 00:33:51.549 --> 00:33:53.990 Join us in the movement. Subscribe wherever you 00:33:53.990 --> 00:33:56.269 get your podcasts. And if you love this episode, 00:33:56.509 --> 00:33:58.529 share it with someone who needs to hear it. Until 00:33:58.529 --> 00:34:01.609 next time, stay bold, stay vocal, and keep the 00:34:01.609 --> 00:34:03.789 conversation going. This is Our Voice is Our 00:34:03.789 --> 00:34:04.029 Future.