Welcome to Our Voices, Our Future, the podcast
where we amplify the voices driving change and
equity within medicine and beyond. Brought to
you by the Gender Equity Task Force, a comedy
of the American Medical Women's Association.
We're here to challenge norms, break barriers,
and ignite conversations that matter. I'm Laura
Oricochea, and in each episode, we'll bring candid
discussions with leaders, changemakers, and advocates
working to create a more inclusive and just world.
No more silence. No more waiting. You're listening
to our voices, our future. Let's get into it.
Today, we're welcoming Dr. Amya Habura. Dr. Habura
currently serves as the course director of principles
of clinical medicine and as a lecturer in the
department of pathology at St. George's University
School of Medicine. Before taking these academic
roles, she served as a clinical instructor at
the same institution. Prior to joining St. George's,
Dr. Habura practiced as a general practitioner
in Sudan, working in the Emergency Department
at the University of Khartoum Medical and Health
Services University Hospital, and at Haj Al -Safi
Teaching Hospital, as well as in the Obstetrics
and Gynecology Department at Al Mualim Medical
City. Welcome, Dr. Habura. It's so nice to have
you here with us today. Thank you, Laura. It's
my pleasure to be with you today. All right,
so to get us started, can you tell us a little
bit about your path to becoming a physician?
Are you the first to become a physician in your
family? I can say there was a big moment that
made me decide to study medicine. It just came
from what I saw actually growing up. In Sudan,
I have witnessed how difficult it could be for
people to get their medical help, even for simple
things. how much difference a caring doctor can
actually make in someone's life. That's left
a very strong impression on myself and made me
want to be part of that change. I was born and
raised in Sudan, a very beautiful, very big country
with incredible people, with very rich resources.
But like many other developing nations, the health
system was struggling to keep pace. What always
stayed with me is how generous and respectful
the people were back home. they treasure the
small act of kindness, and I saw how simple gestures
of care can completely change someone else's
life. That experience, I feel that what has shaped
me and what has shaped what I see medicine at
this point, I see medicine as something that
is deeply human, not just clinical. I am also
the youngest person in my family and the only
daughter in my family. My brothers went through
different fields from what I have. They went
to engineering, they went to accounting, they
went to marine science, but none of them actually
went into medicine specifically. So I had to
carve my own path. My family was very supportive,
but we were all trying to figure it out together.
I graduated from University of Khartoum. This
is one of the largest and one of the oldest and
most respectful universities in Africa. It is
known for admitting the cream of the cream, the
very top student in the country. Studying there
was a very incredible experience, but it also
came with a lot of pressure. Everyone around
me was exceptionally talented, and to survive
in that environment, I had to work extremely
hard. That intensity, taught me discipline, taught
me resilience, those qualities that still shape
how I approach teaching as well as my life today.
All right. So you already went into a little
bit of what we're going to be talking about today,
about those challenges that some of us might
face when we're the first in our families to
go into medicine. So I was wondering if you could
go into a little more detail about those challenges
that you faced along the journey and which of
those challenges do you think might not have
existed if you've had, if you had had a family
member in medicine to guide you? Definitely.
There were definitely many challenges I experienced
and there were definitely many challenges throughout
my journey. One of the main challenge was the
English language. English as you can see is not
my first language and coming straight from high
school where English is just a subject and suddenly
start to study everything in English and on top
of that medicine is full of Latin terms. It was
really tough at the beginning. I still do remember
that first day of my school. I went back home
with a very big giant textbook of community medicine.
I spent hours and hours. I was trying to go through
my medical dictionary just to finish one page.
It took up so much time. It took up so much effort
to actually understand the terminology. But as
you can see, I refused to give up. It was also
hard for me because I didn't have anyone in my
family. who actually went through medicine. I
had to figure it out on my own, how to study,
how to manage the stress, and what to expect
from the exam. But I believe by looking back
to it, those early struggles has taught me actually
be resistant, and this is what made me patient
with myself, and this is what made me patient
with my students. I always try to remind them
that it's okay and always okay to take your time
when you ever learn or you study. I cannot imagine
what it would be going to medical school and
then just like starting to learn English. English
is not my first language either, but I learned
it when I was younger. I was going into ninth
grade and I remember coming into school and nobody
else spoke Spanish. Spanish is my first language
and it was tough, but I can't imagine stepping
into that. and when you're going to medical school,
so I am amazed. Thank you so much. How did you
find support or a mentorship when you didn't
have someone in your immediate circle who understood
the process? In the beginning, the main support
came from my friends, my friends, my peers, the
upper -term students. We had a very strong senior
-junior relationship. usually our senior were
very genuinely help each other. Seniors usually
shared notes. They guided us through the exam.
They always made the time whenever we needed
help. Our professors at the same time, they were
very supportive. They allowed us to volunteer
in their free clinic. We spent a lot of time
with them. They tried to teach us how to approach
patient, how to take proper history, how to perform
physical exam. All of those experiences have
built our confidence to be honest and it helped
us to learn what is the real meaning of patient
care. Having those upperclassmen helping you
and guiding you along the way I think must have
been invaluable. Was there anybody else who was
there to support you or was it mostly the seniors
at your school? Usually mostly the seniors from
my school. And you practiced as a general practitioner
in Sudan during your early career, right? Can
you tell us about your transition to becoming
faculty at St. George's University School of
Medicine? Was it a difficult process and who
guided you? To be honest, the transition was
a quite big step working as a general practitioner
back in Sudan. I used to have hands -on. I used
to see patients making decisions, managing emergencies.
Moving to pure academia meant shifting from just
direct patient care to focus on the future doctors,
how they think, how they learn. At the beginning,
it definitely wasn't an easy process. Everything
was new for me. I was far away from my family.
I was trying to adjust to the island life. I
was trying to adjust the education system, the
logistics of each session, and how the courses
were actually designed. But I was very fortunate
to have an excellent training system at SGU and
very supportive colleagues who actually guided
me through that process. I started as a clinical
instructor and I gradually took on more responsibilities,
but it wasn't easy at all. Can you remind me
how long you've been working at SGU? Currently
almost three years now. Okay so that's quite
recently and honestly from what you've told us
so far I can see how valuable good mentorship
and guidance could be for our success and to
help us overcome difficult challenges such as
moving away from home from family and friends
and everything you know. I'm very impressed by
your story you have accomplished a lot thus far.
Thank you very much. In what ways has your own
path in medicine influenced how you teach and
mentor your students? My clinical experience,
I feel, helped me a lot. It allowed me to bring
the real clinical context into teaching. To teach
the student what to learn and to connect the
theory to what they will actually see in practice,
that helped me a lot. The balance between having
the science purely and your patient care, this
has became the core of my teaching philosophy.
Because I went through many challenges myself,
I try to make the learning less intimidating
for my students. I try to encourage them to think,
to ask questions, to see the patient behind the
case. I also try to remind them that it's okay.
It's okay not to know everything. What matters
is actually being curious and committed to improving
every day. As SGU, we have a very large, very
diverse group of students, and I feel that each
one of those students, they have their own story
to tell. I keep reminding them that medicine
is not an easy pathway to take. It is hard, and
it will get harder. But with time, you will adapt,
you will grow, and you will learn from every
hiccup along the way. I always tell them that
We are here to support, we are here to guide
you, we are here to give you help that you need.
We have all been in your shoes before, feeling
lost, feeling unsure of how to study, where to
start. I want them to know that those feelings
are normal and they are not alone in this journey.
Your students are so lucky to have faculty like
you. Thank you very much, Laura. You're making
me blush today. No, seriously. I think sometimes
people who are already further in their careers,
and even me now as a fourth year medical student,
sometimes we might forget how hard it was to
get where we are. And when we forget, it's a
little harder to empathize with others who are
in the earlier stages of their careers. And I
think it's very important to keep that in mind.
And it shows that you clearly remember and work
hard to make it easier for students and to enhance
their learning by remembering how hard it was
for you at the beginning of the process. So the
AAMC. defines first -generation medical students
as those whose parents did not complete college
and or did not attend medical school. In the
2023 -2024 cycle, about 11 % of U .S. medical
school matriculants fell into this category.
From your perspective, what are some of the unique
challenges these students face, maybe ones we
haven't touched on yet as we talked about your
own journey? I think it's very important to make
the distinction between being a first -generation
college student and being a first -generation
medical student. A first -generation college
student is often the first in their family to
attend or complete higher education at all. So
from the beginning, they are trying to learn
how the academic world looks like, how to study,
how to manage the time. Often, this has happened
with very little guidance. or a family experience
to actually rely on. When you say third generation
medical student, on the other hand, imagine that
you are coming from a family that may or may
not have a college graduate, but there was no
one to guide you through medicine. This creates
another burden, it will create an extra gap,
and they might understand If their family has
someone who graduated from college, they might
understand the academic life in general, but
they will not understand the culture of medicine.
And this is something that you could relate on
as well, Laura. The long training, the emotional
demand, the unspoken expectation that usually
come with becoming a doctor, how to approach
the clinical learning, how to find your mentor,
how to balance your personal life with such a
demanding pathway. The first challenge would
be simply how to navigate the system. Many of
the first -generation students will come in without
someone at their home who can actually understand
what the medical school will really involve.
They are trying to figure out everything by themselves,
starting from study strategy to exam, even how
to handle the feedback on their own. It can be
very overwhelming. At the beginning, especially,
it would be very overwhelming for them. But there
is, because there is no one actually to guide
them through those small and yet very important
details. Definitely, we can't forget the big
elephant in the room, the emotional pressure.
Many of those students will carry the weight
of the expectation. And this is something I experienced
personally. You don't want to let down your family.
You want to make them proud. This pressure can
be very heavy at some times. But this is also
will become the source of motivation that will
keep you moving forward. Yeah, I can relate to
a lot of what you are saying right now. I am
the first in my family to go to medical school.
My parents did graduate college, but they didn't
graduate from an institution here in the US.
And so it works differently. you have to get
a bachelor's degree first and then you can go
to medical school and then applying to residency.
And so there's also all the expectations and
demands. And even though they're very supportive,
I don't think they'll ever understand what it's
like and what I've gone through since they didn't
go through it themselves. Yeah, in my case, I've
been fortunate enough that My partner is also
going to medical school, so we've kind of had
each other, but he's also the first going into
medicine in his family, and his parents actually
didn't even attend college. So it's been even
more challenging for him to explain to his family
how it all works, but luckily we've had each
other, but I can't imagine if it were just me,
because I love my parents and they support me
so much, but when I tell them the things that
I go through during school and at the hospital
and everything that goes through as you progress
in medicine, there's no really understanding.
As much as they try to understand, it's not the
same since they haven't gone through it. That's
true. That's true. I was very lucky to have a
very supportive family. My father is a higher
court judge. My mother is a principal. But as
you mentioned, no one of them actually went through
medicine. You have to go through it because it's
very difficult to explain. You have to live through
this so you could actually bring the actual experience
to someone else. So I think that for students
whose parents didn't even attend college, I think
they face even more challenges. But do you think
that students whose parents did attend to college,
and we kind of already touched on this, however,
they're not physicians, so they're maybe accountants,
engineers, professors, teachers. Do you think
they face similar challenges? Yes, definitely.
Definitely. Even students, those whose parents
were college graduates, but not from a medical
background, will face their own version of that
challenge, to be honest. Medicine, as I told
you, it has its own language, it has its own
culture, it has its own rhythm. It's not like
any other field. So even if the student's family
understand the higher education, they might not
fully grasp what the medical training demand,
how academically and emotionally it could be.
Sometimes the students, specifically those students,
they will feel they have been caught between
the cracks. They are not the first generation
in the traditional sense, but still they do not
have an insider understanding of how the medicine
work, the long hours, the emotional ups and downs,
and the clinical expectation. And that's why
these things are very hard to explain unless
you actually live through them. So first generation
medical students are more likely to come from
lower income households and be underrepresented
in medicine. Therefore, helping this cohort of
students overcome the many barriers that exist
could help diversify the pool of physicians we
see in the US. How do you think institutions
or mentors could better support this group of
students? I think that support needs to start
early on. from the moment the student actually
joined the medical school. An institution can
do a lot by creating clear orientation programs
that explains not only the academic expectation
but also the culture of medicine. What professions
look like, how to seek mentorship, how to use
the available resources. All of this is very
important. Mentorship is also another key part.
Bearing first -generation students with a virtual
faculty or with other senior students can make
a huge difference. Sometimes, these students
need nothing more than someone to actually speak
to, someone that can actually understand the
stress. Someone can tell you, you are doing fine,
just keep going. I feel that at SGU, we have
an excellent mentor -mentee program that really
helped in this case. It connect the junior student
with a senior one, with a faculty member, especially
for the USMLE programs and exams as well. This
kind of structured support will help the student
to feel less isolated and more confident in navigating
their journey. I feel it's not just about academic
health. Emotional support, as I mentioned, is
very important. Emotional support matters. Medical
school can be very overwhelming. Having the sense
of that you have a community will make a lot
of difference. I agree. I think mentorship could
be so valuable. I see that a lot of schools have
first -generation clubs for those students whose
parents didn't attend college, but I feel like
we also should start including students who are
their first in their family to. enter a career
in medicine even if their parents did attend
college so that they can also find and get the
support that they need along the way. What do
you think about the future of medicine? Do you
think we'll start to see more first -generation
students matriculating into and graduating from
medical school? I'm very optimistic. and very
optimistic about the future of medicine. We have
much more awareness about equity, about the value
of diversity. I feel that medical schools are
starting to realize that students from different
backgrounds usually bring perspectives that is
actually truly straight in the patient care.
I do believe that we will continue to see more
first -generation medical students entering and
succeeding in medicine. This pathway is very
demanding and is still very demanding, but they
are usually very important as we can see growing
support. Better mentorship programs has been
evolving, more accessible resources, and there
has been a real effort to make the system more
fair. To be honest with you, what gives me the
most hope is the mindset of this new generation,
this conversation. This conversation that we
are actually having right now is a great example.
Your generation is much more open, more collaborative,
genuinely care about making a difference. If
we keep building supportive environment and giving
the students the tool they need, the future of
medicine will be more diverse, definitely. It
will be more empathetic and more patient centered.
Let's hope that in the future we have more patients
that can see themselves in the physicians that
are caring for them and that we see groups of
physicians who are more diverse and like you
said bring different perspectives to the table
to improve patient care. What advice would you
give to students who are first in their families
to pursue medicine? those who may be walking
a similar path and learning to navigate without
a roadmap? My biggest advice would be don't be
afraid. Don't be afraid to ask for help. No one
is expected to know everything. Medicine is a
long journey that none of us need to walk it
alone. Be patient with yourself. Always be patient
with yourself. There will be a moment that you
feel things are very unclear, overwhelming, but
this is part of the process. This is completely
normal. You will learn to adapt. You will learn
to grow stronger with every challenge. I also
tell my students to celebrate the small wins,
passing a tough term or passing a tough exam,
understanding a concept that you haven't struggled
with, even just making through a tough and demanding
week. Those moments will build resilience. And
most important, always, always remember your
why. The reason that we choose medicine will
carry you through the hard days. You belong here.
Your perspective always matters. Even every step
that you take is not just for you. This is actually
for those who come in and will follow you in
the same path one day. Thank you so much. That
piece of advice you just gave, I feel like I
also needed to hear that. And many of us students,
residents, and even already practicing physicians,
I think we need to remember to celebrate the
small wins that we have in our daily lives and
remember why we're here and why we chose this
career and this path and to help us, remind us
of that purpose that can help us keep going.
Thank you again so much for all your wise words.
Thank you, Lara, for having me today as well.
Of course. I think we had a great conversation
and I think this conversation will resonate with
many of our listeners. And that's a wrap on this
episode of Our Voices, Our Future. We hope today's
conversation inspired you, challenged you, and
reminded you of the power of raising your voice.
The fight for equity doesn't stop here. Join
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