WEBVTT 00:00:10.349 --> 00:00:13.589 Welcome to Our Voices, Our Future, the podcast 00:00:13.589 --> 00:00:15.990 where we amplify the voices driving change and 00:00:15.990 --> 00:00:18.190 equity within medicine and beyond. Brought to 00:00:18.190 --> 00:00:20.649 you by the Gender Equity Task Force, a comedy 00:00:20.649 --> 00:00:23.050 of the American Medical Women's Association. 00:00:23.469 --> 00:00:25.589 We're here to challenge norms, break barriers, 00:00:25.809 --> 00:00:28.210 and ignite conversations that matter. I'm Laura 00:00:28.210 --> 00:00:31.129 Oricochea, and in each episode, we'll bring candid 00:00:31.129 --> 00:00:34.170 discussions with leaders, changemakers, and advocates 00:00:34.170 --> 00:00:36.729 working to create a more inclusive and just world. 00:00:37.020 --> 00:00:39.299 No more silence. No more waiting. You're listening 00:00:39.299 --> 00:00:42.240 to our voices, our future. Let's get into it. 00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:46.079 Today, we're welcoming Dr. Amya Habura. Dr. Habura 00:00:46.079 --> 00:00:48.600 currently serves as the course director of principles 00:00:48.600 --> 00:00:51.240 of clinical medicine and as a lecturer in the 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:53.880 department of pathology at St. George's University 00:00:53.880 --> 00:00:56.740 School of Medicine. Before taking these academic 00:00:56.740 --> 00:00:59.359 roles, she served as a clinical instructor at 00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:02.390 the same institution. Prior to joining St. George's, 00:01:02.530 --> 00:01:04.810 Dr. Habura practiced as a general practitioner 00:01:04.810 --> 00:01:07.510 in Sudan, working in the Emergency Department 00:01:07.510 --> 00:01:10.109 at the University of Khartoum Medical and Health 00:01:10.109 --> 00:01:13.510 Services University Hospital, and at Haj Al -Safi 00:01:13.510 --> 00:01:16.069 Teaching Hospital, as well as in the Obstetrics 00:01:16.069 --> 00:01:19.469 and Gynecology Department at Al Mualim Medical 00:01:19.469 --> 00:01:22.549 City. Welcome, Dr. Habura. It's so nice to have 00:01:22.549 --> 00:01:25.709 you here with us today. Thank you, Laura. It's 00:01:25.709 --> 00:01:28.260 my pleasure to be with you today. All right, 00:01:28.319 --> 00:01:30.799 so to get us started, can you tell us a little 00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:33.319 bit about your path to becoming a physician? 00:01:33.620 --> 00:01:36.480 Are you the first to become a physician in your 00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:41.859 family? I can say there was a big moment that 00:01:41.859 --> 00:01:44.959 made me decide to study medicine. It just came 00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:48.359 from what I saw actually growing up. In Sudan, 00:01:48.439 --> 00:01:51.040 I have witnessed how difficult it could be for 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:53.859 people to get their medical help, even for simple 00:01:53.859 --> 00:01:57.219 things. how much difference a caring doctor can 00:01:57.219 --> 00:02:00.340 actually make in someone's life. That's left 00:02:00.340 --> 00:02:03.219 a very strong impression on myself and made me 00:02:03.219 --> 00:02:06.359 want to be part of that change. I was born and 00:02:06.359 --> 00:02:09.240 raised in Sudan, a very beautiful, very big country 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:12.460 with incredible people, with very rich resources. 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:15.379 But like many other developing nations, the health 00:02:15.379 --> 00:02:19.000 system was struggling to keep pace. What always 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:21.960 stayed with me is how generous and respectful 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:24.870 the people were back home. they treasure the 00:02:24.870 --> 00:02:28.310 small act of kindness, and I saw how simple gestures 00:02:28.310 --> 00:02:31.550 of care can completely change someone else's 00:02:31.550 --> 00:02:35.030 life. That experience, I feel that what has shaped 00:02:35.030 --> 00:02:38.909 me and what has shaped what I see medicine at 00:02:38.909 --> 00:02:41.490 this point, I see medicine as something that 00:02:41.490 --> 00:02:45.569 is deeply human, not just clinical. I am also 00:02:45.569 --> 00:02:48.069 the youngest person in my family and the only 00:02:48.069 --> 00:02:51.469 daughter in my family. My brothers went through 00:02:51.469 --> 00:02:54.500 different fields from what I have. They went 00:02:54.500 --> 00:02:57.219 to engineering, they went to accounting, they 00:02:57.219 --> 00:03:00.020 went to marine science, but none of them actually 00:03:00.020 --> 00:03:04.400 went into medicine specifically. So I had to 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:07.620 carve my own path. My family was very supportive, 00:03:07.939 --> 00:03:10.219 but we were all trying to figure it out together. 00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:13.759 I graduated from University of Khartoum. This 00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:16.539 is one of the largest and one of the oldest and 00:03:16.539 --> 00:03:19.659 most respectful universities in Africa. It is 00:03:19.659 --> 00:03:22.400 known for admitting the cream of the cream, the 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:25.620 very top student in the country. Studying there 00:03:25.620 --> 00:03:29.300 was a very incredible experience, but it also 00:03:29.300 --> 00:03:32.439 came with a lot of pressure. Everyone around 00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:35.500 me was exceptionally talented, and to survive 00:03:35.500 --> 00:03:38.280 in that environment, I had to work extremely 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:42.349 hard. That intensity, taught me discipline, taught 00:03:42.349 --> 00:03:45.550 me resilience, those qualities that still shape 00:03:45.550 --> 00:03:48.770 how I approach teaching as well as my life today. 00:03:50.289 --> 00:03:54.870 All right. So you already went into a little 00:03:54.870 --> 00:03:57.870 bit of what we're going to be talking about today, 00:03:58.370 --> 00:04:00.610 about those challenges that some of us might 00:04:00.610 --> 00:04:03.550 face when we're the first in our families to 00:04:03.550 --> 00:04:06.629 go into medicine. So I was wondering if you could 00:04:06.810 --> 00:04:09.610 go into a little more detail about those challenges 00:04:09.610 --> 00:04:13.009 that you faced along the journey and which of 00:04:13.009 --> 00:04:15.150 those challenges do you think might not have 00:04:15.150 --> 00:04:18.730 existed if you've had, if you had had a family 00:04:18.730 --> 00:04:21.769 member in medicine to guide you? Definitely. 00:04:22.829 --> 00:04:26.170 There were definitely many challenges I experienced 00:04:26.170 --> 00:04:28.389 and there were definitely many challenges throughout 00:04:28.389 --> 00:04:32.170 my journey. One of the main challenge was the 00:04:32.170 --> 00:04:35.079 English language. English as you can see is not 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:38.540 my first language and coming straight from high 00:04:38.540 --> 00:04:42.259 school where English is just a subject and suddenly 00:04:42.259 --> 00:04:45.680 start to study everything in English and on top 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:49.300 of that medicine is full of Latin terms. It was 00:04:49.300 --> 00:04:52.610 really tough at the beginning. I still do remember 00:04:52.610 --> 00:04:55.810 that first day of my school. I went back home 00:04:55.810 --> 00:04:59.149 with a very big giant textbook of community medicine. 00:04:59.529 --> 00:05:02.850 I spent hours and hours. I was trying to go through 00:05:02.850 --> 00:05:05.930 my medical dictionary just to finish one page. 00:05:06.370 --> 00:05:09.250 It took up so much time. It took up so much effort 00:05:09.250 --> 00:05:12.490 to actually understand the terminology. But as 00:05:12.490 --> 00:05:16.389 you can see, I refused to give up. It was also 00:05:16.389 --> 00:05:18.970 hard for me because I didn't have anyone in my 00:05:18.970 --> 00:05:22.500 family. who actually went through medicine. I 00:05:22.500 --> 00:05:25.600 had to figure it out on my own, how to study, 00:05:25.860 --> 00:05:28.199 how to manage the stress, and what to expect 00:05:28.199 --> 00:05:31.180 from the exam. But I believe by looking back 00:05:31.180 --> 00:05:34.000 to it, those early struggles has taught me actually 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:36.420 be resistant, and this is what made me patient 00:05:36.420 --> 00:05:39.000 with myself, and this is what made me patient 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:41.939 with my students. I always try to remind them 00:05:41.939 --> 00:05:45.079 that it's okay and always okay to take your time 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:51.160 when you ever learn or you study. I cannot imagine 00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:54.160 what it would be going to medical school and 00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:58.240 then just like starting to learn English. English 00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:01.060 is not my first language either, but I learned 00:06:01.060 --> 00:06:05.399 it when I was younger. I was going into ninth 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:10.839 grade and I remember coming into school and nobody 00:06:10.839 --> 00:06:13.699 else spoke Spanish. Spanish is my first language 00:06:13.699 --> 00:06:17.980 and it was tough, but I can't imagine stepping 00:06:17.980 --> 00:06:21.550 into that. and when you're going to medical school, 00:06:21.569 --> 00:06:28.509 so I am amazed. Thank you so much. How did you 00:06:28.509 --> 00:06:31.189 find support or a mentorship when you didn't 00:06:31.189 --> 00:06:34.170 have someone in your immediate circle who understood 00:06:34.170 --> 00:06:39.129 the process? In the beginning, the main support 00:06:39.129 --> 00:06:43.589 came from my friends, my friends, my peers, the 00:06:43.589 --> 00:06:47.029 upper -term students. We had a very strong senior 00:06:47.029 --> 00:06:50.170 -junior relationship. usually our senior were 00:06:50.170 --> 00:06:54.329 very genuinely help each other. Seniors usually 00:06:54.329 --> 00:06:56.970 shared notes. They guided us through the exam. 00:06:57.230 --> 00:06:59.410 They always made the time whenever we needed 00:06:59.410 --> 00:07:02.370 help. Our professors at the same time, they were 00:07:02.370 --> 00:07:04.870 very supportive. They allowed us to volunteer 00:07:04.870 --> 00:07:08.290 in their free clinic. We spent a lot of time 00:07:08.290 --> 00:07:10.850 with them. They tried to teach us how to approach 00:07:10.850 --> 00:07:14.269 patient, how to take proper history, how to perform 00:07:14.269 --> 00:07:17.250 physical exam. All of those experiences have 00:07:17.250 --> 00:07:19.670 built our confidence to be honest and it helped 00:07:19.670 --> 00:07:22.389 us to learn what is the real meaning of patient 00:07:22.389 --> 00:07:26.250 care. Having those upperclassmen helping you 00:07:26.250 --> 00:07:30.750 and guiding you along the way I think must have 00:07:30.750 --> 00:07:36.629 been invaluable. Was there anybody else who was 00:07:36.629 --> 00:07:39.769 there to support you or was it mostly the seniors 00:07:39.769 --> 00:07:43.370 at your school? Usually mostly the seniors from 00:07:43.370 --> 00:07:48.620 my school. And you practiced as a general practitioner 00:07:48.620 --> 00:07:54.079 in Sudan during your early career, right? Can 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:56.579 you tell us about your transition to becoming 00:07:56.579 --> 00:07:59.259 faculty at St. George's University School of 00:07:59.259 --> 00:08:02.699 Medicine? Was it a difficult process and who 00:08:02.699 --> 00:08:06.720 guided you? To be honest, the transition was 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:09.959 a quite big step working as a general practitioner 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:13.899 back in Sudan. I used to have hands -on. I used 00:08:13.899 --> 00:08:17.680 to see patients making decisions, managing emergencies. 00:08:18.699 --> 00:08:22.579 Moving to pure academia meant shifting from just 00:08:22.579 --> 00:08:26.420 direct patient care to focus on the future doctors, 00:08:26.819 --> 00:08:29.699 how they think, how they learn. At the beginning, 00:08:29.980 --> 00:08:32.679 it definitely wasn't an easy process. Everything 00:08:32.679 --> 00:08:36.019 was new for me. I was far away from my family. 00:08:36.259 --> 00:08:38.519 I was trying to adjust to the island life. I 00:08:38.519 --> 00:08:41.460 was trying to adjust the education system, the 00:08:41.460 --> 00:08:43.940 logistics of each session, and how the courses 00:08:43.940 --> 00:08:46.740 were actually designed. But I was very fortunate 00:08:46.740 --> 00:08:49.860 to have an excellent training system at SGU and 00:08:49.860 --> 00:08:52.139 very supportive colleagues who actually guided 00:08:52.139 --> 00:08:54.960 me through that process. I started as a clinical 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:57.899 instructor and I gradually took on more responsibilities, 00:08:58.340 --> 00:09:02.059 but it wasn't easy at all. Can you remind me 00:09:02.059 --> 00:09:07.700 how long you've been working at SGU? Currently 00:09:07.700 --> 00:09:11.480 almost three years now. Okay so that's quite 00:09:11.480 --> 00:09:14.539 recently and honestly from what you've told us 00:09:14.539 --> 00:09:19.220 so far I can see how valuable good mentorship 00:09:19.220 --> 00:09:22.059 and guidance could be for our success and to 00:09:22.059 --> 00:09:24.820 help us overcome difficult challenges such as 00:09:24.820 --> 00:09:27.960 moving away from home from family and friends 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:30.980 and everything you know. I'm very impressed by 00:09:30.980 --> 00:09:34.919 your story you have accomplished a lot thus far. 00:09:35.299 --> 00:09:39.190 Thank you very much. In what ways has your own 00:09:39.190 --> 00:09:42.009 path in medicine influenced how you teach and 00:09:42.009 --> 00:09:45.909 mentor your students? My clinical experience, 00:09:45.909 --> 00:09:49.490 I feel, helped me a lot. It allowed me to bring 00:09:49.490 --> 00:09:53.529 the real clinical context into teaching. To teach 00:09:53.529 --> 00:09:57.269 the student what to learn and to connect the 00:09:57.269 --> 00:09:59.870 theory to what they will actually see in practice, 00:09:59.950 --> 00:10:03.220 that helped me a lot. The balance between having 00:10:03.220 --> 00:10:05.980 the science purely and your patient care, this 00:10:05.980 --> 00:10:08.259 has became the core of my teaching philosophy. 00:10:08.779 --> 00:10:11.279 Because I went through many challenges myself, 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:14.840 I try to make the learning less intimidating 00:10:14.840 --> 00:10:17.620 for my students. I try to encourage them to think, 00:10:17.879 --> 00:10:20.860 to ask questions, to see the patient behind the 00:10:20.860 --> 00:10:24.220 case. I also try to remind them that it's okay. 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:27.100 It's okay not to know everything. What matters 00:10:27.100 --> 00:10:30.059 is actually being curious and committed to improving 00:10:30.059 --> 00:10:34.450 every day. As SGU, we have a very large, very 00:10:34.450 --> 00:10:37.690 diverse group of students, and I feel that each 00:10:37.690 --> 00:10:40.590 one of those students, they have their own story 00:10:40.590 --> 00:10:43.409 to tell. I keep reminding them that medicine 00:10:43.409 --> 00:10:46.690 is not an easy pathway to take. It is hard, and 00:10:46.690 --> 00:10:49.789 it will get harder. But with time, you will adapt, 00:10:50.090 --> 00:10:52.330 you will grow, and you will learn from every 00:10:52.330 --> 00:10:55.690 hiccup along the way. I always tell them that 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:58.639 We are here to support, we are here to guide 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:00.840 you, we are here to give you help that you need. 00:11:01.340 --> 00:11:03.980 We have all been in your shoes before, feeling 00:11:03.980 --> 00:11:07.799 lost, feeling unsure of how to study, where to 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:10.379 start. I want them to know that those feelings 00:11:10.379 --> 00:11:13.000 are normal and they are not alone in this journey. 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:16.899 Your students are so lucky to have faculty like 00:11:16.899 --> 00:11:20.980 you. Thank you very much, Laura. You're making 00:11:20.980 --> 00:11:27.919 me blush today. No, seriously. I think sometimes 00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:31.620 people who are already further in their careers, 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:35.580 and even me now as a fourth year medical student, 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:40.240 sometimes we might forget how hard it was to 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:43.840 get where we are. And when we forget, it's a 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:47.120 little harder to empathize with others who are 00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:51.879 in the earlier stages of their careers. And I 00:11:51.879 --> 00:11:55.539 think it's very important to keep that in mind. 00:11:55.580 --> 00:12:00.399 And it shows that you clearly remember and work 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:04.000 hard to make it easier for students and to enhance 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:06.399 their learning by remembering how hard it was 00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:11.779 for you at the beginning of the process. So the 00:12:11.779 --> 00:12:15.799 AAMC. defines first -generation medical students 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:18.340 as those whose parents did not complete college 00:12:18.340 --> 00:12:22.600 and or did not attend medical school. In the 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:28.639 2023 -2024 cycle, about 11 % of U .S. medical 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:31.279 school matriculants fell into this category. 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:34.299 From your perspective, what are some of the unique 00:12:34.299 --> 00:12:37.120 challenges these students face, maybe ones we 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:39.379 haven't touched on yet as we talked about your 00:12:39.379 --> 00:12:43.820 own journey? I think it's very important to make 00:12:43.820 --> 00:12:47.179 the distinction between being a first -generation 00:12:47.179 --> 00:12:50.059 college student and being a first -generation 00:12:50.059 --> 00:12:53.480 medical student. A first -generation college 00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:56.720 student is often the first in their family to 00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:59.620 attend or complete higher education at all. So 00:12:59.620 --> 00:13:03.179 from the beginning, they are trying to learn 00:13:03.179 --> 00:13:06.559 how the academic world looks like, how to study, 00:13:06.820 --> 00:13:10.700 how to manage the time. Often, this has happened 00:13:10.700 --> 00:13:13.909 with very little guidance. or a family experience 00:13:13.909 --> 00:13:17.850 to actually rely on. When you say third generation 00:13:17.850 --> 00:13:20.990 medical student, on the other hand, imagine that 00:13:20.990 --> 00:13:24.289 you are coming from a family that may or may 00:13:24.289 --> 00:13:27.149 not have a college graduate, but there was no 00:13:27.149 --> 00:13:30.490 one to guide you through medicine. This creates 00:13:30.490 --> 00:13:33.549 another burden, it will create an extra gap, 00:13:34.210 --> 00:13:38.279 and they might understand If their family has 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:40.820 someone who graduated from college, they might 00:13:40.820 --> 00:13:43.480 understand the academic life in general, but 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:45.700 they will not understand the culture of medicine. 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:47.919 And this is something that you could relate on 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:51.500 as well, Laura. The long training, the emotional 00:13:51.500 --> 00:13:54.720 demand, the unspoken expectation that usually 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:57.679 come with becoming a doctor, how to approach 00:13:57.679 --> 00:14:00.139 the clinical learning, how to find your mentor, 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:03.399 how to balance your personal life with such a 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:06.559 demanding pathway. The first challenge would 00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:10.059 be simply how to navigate the system. Many of 00:14:10.059 --> 00:14:13.039 the first -generation students will come in without 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:16.299 someone at their home who can actually understand 00:14:16.299 --> 00:14:18.679 what the medical school will really involve. 00:14:19.139 --> 00:14:21.899 They are trying to figure out everything by themselves, 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:25.740 starting from study strategy to exam, even how 00:14:25.740 --> 00:14:28.759 to handle the feedback on their own. It can be 00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:31.669 very overwhelming. At the beginning, especially, 00:14:31.710 --> 00:14:34.450 it would be very overwhelming for them. But there 00:14:34.450 --> 00:14:37.230 is, because there is no one actually to guide 00:14:37.230 --> 00:14:40.710 them through those small and yet very important 00:14:40.710 --> 00:14:44.389 details. Definitely, we can't forget the big 00:14:44.389 --> 00:14:46.450 elephant in the room, the emotional pressure. 00:14:47.070 --> 00:14:49.710 Many of those students will carry the weight 00:14:49.710 --> 00:14:52.370 of the expectation. And this is something I experienced 00:14:52.370 --> 00:14:55.250 personally. You don't want to let down your family. 00:14:55.429 --> 00:14:58.029 You want to make them proud. This pressure can 00:14:58.029 --> 00:15:01.139 be very heavy at some times. But this is also 00:15:01.139 --> 00:15:03.460 will become the source of motivation that will 00:15:03.460 --> 00:15:08.259 keep you moving forward. Yeah, I can relate to 00:15:08.259 --> 00:15:12.240 a lot of what you are saying right now. I am 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:15.139 the first in my family to go to medical school. 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:19.320 My parents did graduate college, but they didn't 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:21.879 graduate from an institution here in the US. 00:15:21.980 --> 00:15:26.629 And so it works differently. you have to get 00:15:26.629 --> 00:15:28.710 a bachelor's degree first and then you can go 00:15:28.710 --> 00:15:31.830 to medical school and then applying to residency. 00:15:32.070 --> 00:15:35.710 And so there's also all the expectations and 00:15:35.710 --> 00:15:39.309 demands. And even though they're very supportive, 00:15:39.429 --> 00:15:42.970 I don't think they'll ever understand what it's 00:15:42.970 --> 00:15:47.090 like and what I've gone through since they didn't 00:15:47.090 --> 00:15:51.549 go through it themselves. Yeah, in my case, I've 00:15:51.549 --> 00:15:57.049 been fortunate enough that My partner is also 00:15:57.049 --> 00:15:59.490 going to medical school, so we've kind of had 00:15:59.490 --> 00:16:03.870 each other, but he's also the first going into 00:16:03.870 --> 00:16:06.149 medicine in his family, and his parents actually 00:16:06.149 --> 00:16:09.929 didn't even attend college. So it's been even 00:16:09.929 --> 00:16:13.110 more challenging for him to explain to his family 00:16:13.110 --> 00:16:16.289 how it all works, but luckily we've had each 00:16:16.289 --> 00:16:20.009 other, but I can't imagine if it were just me, 00:16:20.129 --> 00:16:24.049 because I love my parents and they support me 00:16:24.049 --> 00:16:26.470 so much, but when I tell them the things that 00:16:26.470 --> 00:16:29.690 I go through during school and at the hospital 00:16:29.690 --> 00:16:33.409 and everything that goes through as you progress 00:16:33.409 --> 00:16:39.690 in medicine, there's no really understanding. 00:16:39.750 --> 00:16:43.389 As much as they try to understand, it's not the 00:16:43.389 --> 00:16:46.409 same since they haven't gone through it. That's 00:16:46.409 --> 00:16:49.370 true. That's true. I was very lucky to have a 00:16:49.370 --> 00:16:52.700 very supportive family. My father is a higher 00:16:52.700 --> 00:16:56.279 court judge. My mother is a principal. But as 00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:59.299 you mentioned, no one of them actually went through 00:16:59.299 --> 00:17:04.819 medicine. You have to go through it because it's 00:17:04.819 --> 00:17:07.640 very difficult to explain. You have to live through 00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:11.819 this so you could actually bring the actual experience 00:17:11.819 --> 00:17:19.500 to someone else. So I think that for students 00:17:19.500 --> 00:17:22.920 whose parents didn't even attend college, I think 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:27.819 they face even more challenges. But do you think 00:17:27.819 --> 00:17:30.480 that students whose parents did attend to college, 00:17:30.539 --> 00:17:33.720 and we kind of already touched on this, however, 00:17:33.799 --> 00:17:36.599 they're not physicians, so they're maybe accountants, 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:40.380 engineers, professors, teachers. Do you think 00:17:40.380 --> 00:17:44.039 they face similar challenges? Yes, definitely. 00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:47.750 Definitely. Even students, those whose parents 00:17:47.750 --> 00:17:50.789 were college graduates, but not from a medical 00:17:50.789 --> 00:17:53.650 background, will face their own version of that 00:17:53.650 --> 00:17:56.349 challenge, to be honest. Medicine, as I told 00:17:56.349 --> 00:17:59.009 you, it has its own language, it has its own 00:17:59.009 --> 00:18:01.890 culture, it has its own rhythm. It's not like 00:18:01.890 --> 00:18:05.029 any other field. So even if the student's family 00:18:05.029 --> 00:18:07.650 understand the higher education, they might not 00:18:07.650 --> 00:18:10.250 fully grasp what the medical training demand, 00:18:10.390 --> 00:18:12.710 how academically and emotionally it could be. 00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:16.059 Sometimes the students, specifically those students, 00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:18.259 they will feel they have been caught between 00:18:18.259 --> 00:18:20.799 the cracks. They are not the first generation 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:23.720 in the traditional sense, but still they do not 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:26.440 have an insider understanding of how the medicine 00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:29.440 work, the long hours, the emotional ups and downs, 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:32.460 and the clinical expectation. And that's why 00:18:32.460 --> 00:18:35.059 these things are very hard to explain unless 00:18:35.059 --> 00:18:39.640 you actually live through them. So first generation 00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:42.140 medical students are more likely to come from 00:18:42.140 --> 00:18:45.920 lower income households and be underrepresented 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:49.799 in medicine. Therefore, helping this cohort of 00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:52.720 students overcome the many barriers that exist 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:55.819 could help diversify the pool of physicians we 00:18:55.819 --> 00:18:59.180 see in the US. How do you think institutions 00:18:59.180 --> 00:19:02.339 or mentors could better support this group of 00:19:02.339 --> 00:19:06.019 students? I think that support needs to start 00:19:06.019 --> 00:19:08.759 early on. from the moment the student actually 00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:11.599 joined the medical school. An institution can 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:15.700 do a lot by creating clear orientation programs 00:19:15.700 --> 00:19:18.799 that explains not only the academic expectation 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:22.140 but also the culture of medicine. What professions 00:19:22.140 --> 00:19:25.099 look like, how to seek mentorship, how to use 00:19:25.099 --> 00:19:27.799 the available resources. All of this is very 00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:31.460 important. Mentorship is also another key part. 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:34.819 Bearing first -generation students with a virtual 00:19:34.819 --> 00:19:38.359 faculty or with other senior students can make 00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:41.619 a huge difference. Sometimes, these students 00:19:41.619 --> 00:19:45.920 need nothing more than someone to actually speak 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:48.660 to, someone that can actually understand the 00:19:48.660 --> 00:19:51.220 stress. Someone can tell you, you are doing fine, 00:19:51.299 --> 00:19:54.720 just keep going. I feel that at SGU, we have 00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:57.759 an excellent mentor -mentee program that really 00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:01.819 helped in this case. It connect the junior student 00:20:01.819 --> 00:20:04.759 with a senior one, with a faculty member, especially 00:20:04.759 --> 00:20:08.440 for the USMLE programs and exams as well. This 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:11.240 kind of structured support will help the student 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:14.319 to feel less isolated and more confident in navigating 00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:18.299 their journey. I feel it's not just about academic 00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:20.599 health. Emotional support, as I mentioned, is 00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:24.420 very important. Emotional support matters. Medical 00:20:24.420 --> 00:20:27.960 school can be very overwhelming. Having the sense 00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:30.960 of that you have a community will make a lot 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:35.680 of difference. I agree. I think mentorship could 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:40.319 be so valuable. I see that a lot of schools have 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:43.460 first -generation clubs for those students whose 00:20:43.460 --> 00:20:46.099 parents didn't attend college, but I feel like 00:20:46.099 --> 00:20:49.720 we also should start including students who are 00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:54.460 their first in their family to. enter a career 00:20:54.460 --> 00:20:57.279 in medicine even if their parents did attend 00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:01.539 college so that they can also find and get the 00:21:01.539 --> 00:21:06.579 support that they need along the way. What do 00:21:06.579 --> 00:21:09.059 you think about the future of medicine? Do you 00:21:09.059 --> 00:21:11.180 think we'll start to see more first -generation 00:21:11.180 --> 00:21:14.619 students matriculating into and graduating from 00:21:14.619 --> 00:21:19.279 medical school? I'm very optimistic. and very 00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:22.299 optimistic about the future of medicine. We have 00:21:22.299 --> 00:21:25.900 much more awareness about equity, about the value 00:21:25.900 --> 00:21:29.319 of diversity. I feel that medical schools are 00:21:29.319 --> 00:21:32.079 starting to realize that students from different 00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:35.940 backgrounds usually bring perspectives that is 00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:38.039 actually truly straight in the patient care. 00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:41.059 I do believe that we will continue to see more 00:21:41.059 --> 00:21:44.200 first -generation medical students entering and 00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:47.029 succeeding in medicine. This pathway is very 00:21:47.029 --> 00:21:50.589 demanding and is still very demanding, but they 00:21:50.589 --> 00:21:54.849 are usually very important as we can see growing 00:21:54.849 --> 00:21:57.950 support. Better mentorship programs has been 00:21:57.950 --> 00:22:00.670 evolving, more accessible resources, and there 00:22:00.670 --> 00:22:03.250 has been a real effort to make the system more 00:22:03.250 --> 00:22:06.650 fair. To be honest with you, what gives me the 00:22:06.650 --> 00:22:09.349 most hope is the mindset of this new generation, 00:22:09.630 --> 00:22:12.859 this conversation. This conversation that we 00:22:12.859 --> 00:22:15.500 are actually having right now is a great example. 00:22:15.980 --> 00:22:19.299 Your generation is much more open, more collaborative, 00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:22.619 genuinely care about making a difference. If 00:22:22.619 --> 00:22:25.259 we keep building supportive environment and giving 00:22:25.259 --> 00:22:27.819 the students the tool they need, the future of 00:22:27.819 --> 00:22:30.339 medicine will be more diverse, definitely. It 00:22:30.339 --> 00:22:32.940 will be more empathetic and more patient centered. 00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:39.700 Let's hope that in the future we have more patients 00:22:39.700 --> 00:22:42.380 that can see themselves in the physicians that 00:22:42.380 --> 00:22:46.920 are caring for them and that we see groups of 00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:50.160 physicians who are more diverse and like you 00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:53.400 said bring different perspectives to the table 00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:57.619 to improve patient care. What advice would you 00:22:57.619 --> 00:23:00.759 give to students who are first in their families 00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:04.349 to pursue medicine? those who may be walking 00:23:04.349 --> 00:23:07.349 a similar path and learning to navigate without 00:23:07.349 --> 00:23:14.289 a roadmap? My biggest advice would be don't be 00:23:14.289 --> 00:23:18.490 afraid. Don't be afraid to ask for help. No one 00:23:18.490 --> 00:23:21.650 is expected to know everything. Medicine is a 00:23:21.650 --> 00:23:25.009 long journey that none of us need to walk it 00:23:25.009 --> 00:23:28.890 alone. Be patient with yourself. Always be patient 00:23:28.890 --> 00:23:31.650 with yourself. There will be a moment that you 00:23:31.650 --> 00:23:35.559 feel things are very unclear, overwhelming, but 00:23:35.559 --> 00:23:38.160 this is part of the process. This is completely 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:41.180 normal. You will learn to adapt. You will learn 00:23:41.180 --> 00:23:44.519 to grow stronger with every challenge. I also 00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:46.940 tell my students to celebrate the small wins, 00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:50.559 passing a tough term or passing a tough exam, 00:23:51.099 --> 00:23:53.339 understanding a concept that you haven't struggled 00:23:53.339 --> 00:23:57.519 with, even just making through a tough and demanding 00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:01.079 week. Those moments will build resilience. And 00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:04.039 most important, always, always remember your 00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:07.180 why. The reason that we choose medicine will 00:24:07.180 --> 00:24:10.319 carry you through the hard days. You belong here. 00:24:10.759 --> 00:24:14.839 Your perspective always matters. Even every step 00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:17.799 that you take is not just for you. This is actually 00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:20.500 for those who come in and will follow you in 00:24:20.500 --> 00:24:26.039 the same path one day. Thank you so much. That 00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:28.339 piece of advice you just gave, I feel like I 00:24:28.339 --> 00:24:32.819 also needed to hear that. And many of us students, 00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:35.700 residents, and even already practicing physicians, 00:24:36.220 --> 00:24:40.039 I think we need to remember to celebrate the 00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:42.980 small wins that we have in our daily lives and 00:24:42.980 --> 00:24:47.200 remember why we're here and why we chose this 00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:54.180 career and this path and to help us, remind us 00:24:54.180 --> 00:24:56.680 of that purpose that can help us keep going. 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:01.380 Thank you again so much for all your wise words. 00:25:02.099 --> 00:25:04.359 Thank you, Lara, for having me today as well. 00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:07.900 Of course. I think we had a great conversation 00:25:07.900 --> 00:25:11.200 and I think this conversation will resonate with 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:15.400 many of our listeners. And that's a wrap on this 00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:18.819 episode of Our Voices, Our Future. We hope today's 00:25:18.819 --> 00:25:21.900 conversation inspired you, challenged you, and 00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:24.140 reminded you of the power of raising your voice. 00:25:24.619 --> 00:25:27.420 The fight for equity doesn't stop here. Join 00:25:27.420 --> 00:25:29.799 us in the movement. Subscribe wherever you get 00:25:29.799 --> 00:25:32.279 your podcasts, and if you loved this episode, 00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:34.980 share it with someone who needs to hear it. Until 00:25:34.980 --> 00:25:37.940 next time, stay bold, stay vocal, and keep the 00:25:37.940 --> 00:25:40.680 conversation going. This is Our Voices, Our Future.