WEBVTT

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Premier League champions 2016, the amazing Leicester

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City! Do you not remember when Leicester won

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the Premier League? If you knew nothing else,

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that would be enough. Fairy tales, first league

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titles, doubles, trebles, 100 -point seasons,

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goal difference deciders and the Invincibles.

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But it's not just about the winners. It's relegation

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dogfights, 11 -point seasons, top four races,

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and the hunt for European places. Foreign influence,

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oligarchs, managers, players. There's always

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controversy. Slips, missed drug tests, karate

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kicks, managerial meltdowns, dodgy lasagnas,

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VAR. It's midweek games, the Christmas fixtures,

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and the run-in. Superstars and legends at every

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turn. Playing in some of the greatest arenas,

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Anfield, St James' Park and the Theatre of Dreams.

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Simply put, it's the best league in the world

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and it's back. It's time for another edition

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of the Premier League. And this is the Sporting

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Almanac Podcast. That sums it all up. Good afternoon,

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mate. Afternoon, Ben. How are you? I'm very good,

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thanks. Really looking forward to this week for

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very obvious reasons. Yeah, I can't imagine why.

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It's almost like this is your favourite week

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of the year. Yeah, the build -up, the community

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shield. It's just exciting. It is exciting, and

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it's a weird old feeling when you go into it

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on the back of... It's something I've never experienced

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before. Obviously, as a Liverpool fan... Liverpool

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are the reigning champions. I've been in a situation

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where Liverpool are the reigning champions before,

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but that was a really weird time, if you remember.

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It was COVID and now, I don't know, it's normality

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and I don't know what to think. Are we going

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to win it again? What do you reckon, Ben? You

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have an excellent chance. As do you. When Arsenal

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go to Anfield, they are going to play some terrorismo

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football. It's going to be, what we're going

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to do to you is diabolical. Against the decency

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of the game. What would Johan Cruyff say? Yeah,

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it's going to be a clash of styles between our

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two clubs. And I can't imagine City are going

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to be as shit as they were. No. Yeah, lots to

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look forward to. Chelsea also look good. They'll

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be tired. Although they flatter to deceive. I

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mean, they are world champions, but at what cost,

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Ben? At what cost? We'll find out. World champions

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or shambles. That's a very good point. That is

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a very good point, though, about those that competed

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or went deep in the Club World Cup have effectively

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not had a summer holiday. So it could be a factor.

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We'll see. But we'll see. Anyway. But yeah, the

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Premier League. I mean, I was banging on last

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week about how we love football more than anyone

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else. And, you know, people can take that as

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they wish. But surely it's far less controversial

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to say that this is the best domestic league

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in the world. I don't really think there's any

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debate. I think there's better, there's arguably

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at any given time, there may be better teams.

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There certainly have been in the past 20 years.

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AC Milan were brilliant about 20 years ago. Obviously

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Real Madrid, constantly brilliant. Barcelona

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have been the best team I've ever seen in the

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meantime. But the standard they have to play

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in their leagues ain't there. Like PSG, probably

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best team in the world at the moment, even though

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Chelsea beat them in the Club World Cup final.

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But when do they have a hard game during the

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regular season? When do they have to go away

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to Bournemouth and be put on a Iriola masterclass?

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The classic rainy day in Stoke, even if Stoke

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aren't in the Premier League anymore. It's just,

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it's not the same. It's easier for them to focus

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on Europe because they don't have the same standards

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at home. The Premier League, every single game

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is a challenge. Anyone from the relegation zone

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could beat anyone from the top four on any day.

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That's what makes it so wonderful. Yeah, and

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there's so many, and actually before I make this

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point, I was going to say there's so many competing

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styles in the Premier League, which is not something

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you necessarily find on the continent. So everyone

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in Spain is very technical, for example, and

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everyone in Germany is relatively direct, and

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I don't mean long ball, they just play sort of

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like wing football quite a lot. Yeah, yeah, which

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is great. And that's probably why the Germans

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are so good internationally. But in the Premier

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League, you get such a wide variety of styles

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competing against one another, which means that,

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you know, all the games are interesting. Yeah.

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But the point I was going to make, which is,

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well, I say the point you were making, which

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I was just sort of going to elaborate on and

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add some additional flavor to, is we're not saying

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the teams in the Premier League are the best

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teams. And you made that point very clear. What

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we are saying is it is the best league. It is

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the most competitive. It's the most absorbing.

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It's the most exciting. That doesn't mean that

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it produces the best teams necessarily. So again,

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as I said last week, listen to what we're saying,

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not what you think we're saying. I think it'd

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be a very interesting competition to have a European.

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fourth tier European competition for like mid

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-table teams and see how the mid -table teams

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of England stack up against other countries because

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I genuinely Spain aside there are some good teams

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fairly deep in Spain but I think Italy I think

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certainly France the Netherlands maybe not Germany

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so much but I I just don't think they go anywhere

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near as deep as us there's too much power and

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money concentrated at the top which while you

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could argue is the same in England there's a

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lot more money spread out for everyone else to

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enjoy as well so i think strength and depth wise

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i think we got it won well i think that's right

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because our coefficient is incredibly strong

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and there's a reason for that and the revamping

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of european competition very much serves to illustrate

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that our mid -table teams are strong because

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uh spurs have now won a european trophy of course

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generous of you to call them mid -table and so

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have west ham Well, I mean, they were lucky last

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year to be qualifying for that status. But look,

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what I'm saying is the one tier down, now that

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there's been a revamp of the Champions League,

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gives your Tottenhams, your Villas, your Crystal

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Palaces this year, obviously, although now in

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the Conference League rather than the Europa

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League, which is a shame. Yeah, big shame. Or

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at least until that appeal is settled. Yeah,

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fingers crossed on that because that's bullshit,

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that is. That is bullshit. Yeah. But yeah, and

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West Ham. We're obviously strong. I suspect Brighton

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or Bournemouth, as you say, versus a 10th or

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11th place equivalent on most parts of the continent

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would be an interesting watch. I think so. But

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we're not here to talk about that. We're talking

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about the actual Premier League itself. We are

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the greatest competition in the world. The only

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thing sports -wise that keeps me up at night.

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It's wonderful. It's horrible. It's everything.

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it is if you support a team in the premier league

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it's everything and as we said last week if you

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support a team in any other division that that

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division's everything but the one thing that

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the premier league does do is it transcends sporting

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affiliations yeah in the sense that everyone

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is interested in the premier league certainly

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here and i would say that's true internationally

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regardless of whether or not you actually support

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a participant Yeah, I mean, absolutely. It's

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the most watched sports league in the world in

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terms of viewers on television. Obviously, it's

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not quite the most watched in terms of viewers

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on seats in stadiums because the Bundesliga still

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has us beat. God bless the Germans. They've also

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got some better stadia. They do. They have some

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incredible stadiums there. But even Germany,

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I mean, we're talking about competitiveness.

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Germany don't have it. And I know you can make

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the argument with Manchester City, England don't

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have it, but it's not quite that same level.

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I mean, COVID served to illustrate that. Do you

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remember how excited everyone was here in England?

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Well, in the UK generally, when the Bundesliga

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came back before any other sporting event and

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everyone was glued into their TVs to watch a

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bit of the Bundesliga. And after about two weeks,

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they were just like, this is not what we were

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hoping for. We were hoping for something equivalent

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to the Prem where every game is gone. But yeah,

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alas, you can't have it all. I don't want to

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upset the Germans any more than I did last week

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about my strong feelings. I think I was the worst

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with the Germans last week. I made a terrible

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insinuation against Bayern Munich. I would apologise,

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but it's not our style. And also, it's not factually

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inaccurate, so there is no need for it. No, true.

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Yeah, the Premier League, where did it all begin?

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Where did it all begin? I mean, because the reason

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I think we should talk about this just, you know,

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at least briefly is because I'm not sure actually

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any, like many people know about this. It's sort

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of, it's just a staple of like the sporting calendar

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now and people just take it as given. And I think

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actually how it came about is quite interesting.

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Yeah, I think if you're our age, particularly

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our age or something under the age of 40 now,

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you probably don't remember this. You don't remember

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it happening. You've only ever grown up with

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the Premier League. You don't know what preceded

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it other than, you know, what's in the history

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books and what you see on the highlight videos

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and whatever else. I don't think any of this

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is particularly surprising where it comes from.

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I don't think any of this will come as a shock

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to anyone where it comes from. But I think what

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it does do is it provokes an awful lot of questions

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and an awful lot of thinking about the direction

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the game could have gone in or things that could

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have been done differently which may have changed

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the way the game is now. And less the impact

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on the Premier League and more the impact and

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it's had a colossal impact on the rest of the

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Football League. Yes. And the pyramid as we talked

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about last week. Yes. That's, really the effect

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it's had more than anything there's a different

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way they could have gone about it yeah well because

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it's all money money money money it is effectively

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the original super league blueprint and When

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that was sort of revamped in European form recently,

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it sparked anger because it was... It's exactly

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the same principle. It's exactly the same principle.

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That's the point. Except it didn't quite close

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it off. So obviously a European Super League

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would close off the pyramid because it would

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deny access to the very, very top of the game

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to English clubs. The Premier League didn't quite

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do that, but it's, as you said, had a pretty

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profound impact on teams' ability to reach the

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summit. I mean, have you got... I can go into

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a bit of historical context just to sort of build

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on a little bit in terms of the share. I was

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talking about money last week with the Football

00:11:02.509 --> 00:11:04.789
League episode in terms of how money was shared

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previously between the different leagues. I mean,

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yeah, I think that's probably a pretty good place

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to start. I was going to just say we were talking

00:11:12.289 --> 00:11:15.090
about the playoffs last week in our episode on

00:11:15.090 --> 00:11:17.769
the Football League itself and the context in

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which the playoffs formed. It's not dissimilar

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to the... the origins the sort of pea shoots

00:11:22.429 --> 00:11:25.009
if you like of the premier league in that despite

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quite a lot of major success european european

00:11:27.210 --> 00:11:29.710
football for english teams in the 70s in the

00:11:29.710 --> 00:11:32.769
early 80s the mid to late 80s like was like a

00:11:32.769 --> 00:11:34.850
low point in english football stadiums were shit

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we spoke about that there was hooliganism it

00:11:36.669 --> 00:11:39.169
was rife all the english clubs faced five -year

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ban following the heisel disaster in 85 there

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was the bradford fire there was obviously hillsborough

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like A lot of English, well, not even just English,

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a lot of British players were playing abroad

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actually as well. And the English Football League

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was dragging behind Serie A in Italy and La Liga

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in Spain in terms of attendance and revenue.

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Yeah. And so like to give you sort of like a

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quick illustration. And quality. And quality

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for sure. And that's why I think a lot of the

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British players were abroad. So you had like

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Lineker, Platt, Chris Waddle, Glenn Hoddle, Souness,

00:12:08.649 --> 00:12:11.639
Trevor Farnsworth. Gascoigne Laurie Cunningham

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Liam Brady Ray Wilkins Mark Hughes Ian Rush etc

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they all it's John Aldridge yeah all towards

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the the mid to late 80s the exception being Gascoigne

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went a little bit later like in the early 90s

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but still pre -premier league they were all abroad

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playing in predominantly Spain and Italy but

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also in France so yeah that's the scene and then

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as you say like it's probably worth mentioning

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the way money was being divided up yeah so I

00:12:37.899 --> 00:12:40.820
mean so as we pop back in and please do listen

00:12:40.820 --> 00:12:42.740
to last week's episode It doesn't have to be

00:12:42.740 --> 00:12:44.600
before this, but after this, it goes into a lot

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more detail. But the FA and the Football League

00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:50.639
had always butted heads a little bit over professionalism,

00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:53.679
over payment, over things like that. The maximum

00:12:53.679 --> 00:12:56.360
wage was imposed, blah, blah, blah. The FA always

00:12:56.360 --> 00:12:59.440
being the ones who were traditionally, they wanted

00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:01.220
the game to be amateur. If they got their own

00:13:01.220 --> 00:13:02.440
way, the game would have been fully amateur,

00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:04.399
whereas the Football League wanted to make as

00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:05.820
much money as possible. That's why the Football

00:13:05.820 --> 00:13:08.080
League was founded. But the Football League had

00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:12.279
always been somewhat, sort of, looking to get

00:13:12.279 --> 00:13:14.840
looking to share money across the different teams

00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:17.440
but not for sake of fairness but for the sake

00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:20.519
of competition yeah because they wanted to keep

00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:22.759
it as tight as possible and not have teams running

00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:25.019
away with it there was also no real competition

00:13:25.019 --> 00:13:28.799
for tv rights there's no bbc and itv they would

00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:31.299
squabble a little bit but ultimately they they

00:13:31.299 --> 00:13:33.879
put their own best interest first ultimately

00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:36.519
so Just to give an example, when the BBC got

00:13:36.519 --> 00:13:38.919
Match of the Day right in 1965, they paid £5

00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:43.080
,000 for it. That was about £85 ,000 in today's

00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:46.059
money and that was split evenly between all 92

00:13:46.059 --> 00:13:48.940
league clubs. Anytime any TV money, anytime any

00:13:48.940 --> 00:13:50.399
money came into the Football League, it would

00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:52.860
be split evenly amongst all 92 league clubs.

00:13:52.940 --> 00:13:54.919
They got about £50 each, which is about a grand

00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:57.919
in today's money. So it's nothing. So while top

00:13:57.919 --> 00:14:00.240
teams could dominate, they rarely did so without

00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:02.700
being challenged or did so for many years in

00:14:02.700 --> 00:14:05.009
a row. There was no team who won it three years

00:14:05.009 --> 00:14:07.370
in a row for many, many years. Well, and Liverpool

00:14:07.370 --> 00:14:09.970
did it a couple of times in the 80s. Liverpool

00:14:09.970 --> 00:14:11.909
did once, I think. Liverpool won it three times

00:14:11.909 --> 00:14:16.509
in the 80s and I think four and five in the 70s.

00:14:16.509 --> 00:14:19.210
But you're right. If you go back and look at

00:14:19.210 --> 00:14:22.149
it, it was rare that people defended the title.

00:14:22.370 --> 00:14:25.389
It had been done, for sure. Wolves and United

00:14:25.389 --> 00:14:28.309
had done it and stuff. But more often than not,

00:14:28.370 --> 00:14:30.629
you... you had different winners. And even if

00:14:30.629 --> 00:14:32.289
you didn't have different winners, talking about

00:14:32.289 --> 00:14:34.750
Liverpool, for example, it was always a company

00:14:34.750 --> 00:14:37.289
with like a big rivalry with someone. Yeah, yeah,

00:14:37.330 --> 00:14:39.549
exactly. And by the 80s, it should be mentioned

00:14:39.549 --> 00:14:41.710
as well, the sponsorship had started being a

00:14:41.710 --> 00:14:44.409
thing. So that was having a factor as well, beyond

00:14:44.409 --> 00:14:47.769
simply the sharing of revenue, albeit, obviously,

00:14:47.889 --> 00:14:51.269
it's a club owning that sponsorship. That kind

00:14:51.269 --> 00:14:53.149
of thing also meant a great manager, someone

00:14:53.149 --> 00:14:55.049
like Brian Clough, for example, could come into

00:14:55.049 --> 00:14:58.169
a relatively small club, a Derby, a Nottingham

00:14:58.169 --> 00:14:59.970
Forest, and lead them to glory. And it could

00:14:59.970 --> 00:15:01.850
also mean that a team like Manchester United

00:15:01.850 --> 00:15:04.190
or Spurs could find themselves getting relegated.

00:15:04.389 --> 00:15:06.889
In the 1970s, both of them got relegated as well,

00:15:06.970 --> 00:15:09.509
being all dominant at at least one point in the

00:15:09.509 --> 00:15:11.610
decade before Man United. Obviously, European

00:15:11.610 --> 00:15:14.450
champions Spurs won the double. And yeah, and

00:15:14.450 --> 00:15:17.809
obviously it's tight and controlled in that case.

00:15:17.830 --> 00:15:22.870
And that changed in 1983, I think. So the 80s

00:15:22.870 --> 00:15:24.850
saw sort of the first threat of rebellion coming

00:15:24.850 --> 00:15:27.549
along from the big teams. The equal split that

00:15:27.549 --> 00:15:30.840
existed. as a compromise became a 50 -25, 12

00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:33.860
.5 -12 .5 split between the four divisions. So

00:15:33.860 --> 00:15:37.139
50 % of the revenues going to Division 1, and

00:15:37.139 --> 00:15:39.759
then 25 % to Division 2, and 12 .5 % to each

00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:42.600
of the two lower leagues. But yeah, and then

00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:45.080
obviously, as you say, that was the situation

00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:47.000
we found ourselves in. There was a few threats

00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:49.120
of breaking away before that, which makes me

00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:51.259
worried about the European Super League, because

00:15:51.259 --> 00:15:54.620
that might just be the first attempt at something

00:15:54.620 --> 00:15:58.200
that might come. roaring roaring back rearing

00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:01.179
his ugly head reemerge but but essentially the

00:16:01.179 --> 00:16:02.860
situation yeah the situation we find ourselves

00:16:02.860 --> 00:16:05.379
in is the same the teams at the top want a bigger

00:16:05.379 --> 00:16:08.159
share of the pie the 50 they were getting they

00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:09.879
considered that to be less than they were earning

00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:12.679
and they were probably right but it was also

00:16:12.679 --> 00:16:14.940
keeping the other teams in the other divisions

00:16:14.940 --> 00:16:16.980
going the thing that's really interesting about

00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:18.440
that as well is because you set the scene really

00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:20.919
nicely there is that that that trend of sort

00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:24.259
of stamping their influence on negotiation strategies

00:16:24.259 --> 00:16:26.600
by the league and what have you basically just

00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:29.789
got exponentially more severe it didn't It didn't

00:16:29.789 --> 00:16:32.590
slow down. What I'm saying is what you just described

00:16:32.590 --> 00:16:36.789
from 83 didn't appease anyone. No, if anything,

00:16:37.049 --> 00:16:39.590
it did the opposite. Yeah, it made them realise

00:16:39.590 --> 00:16:42.190
that they had the leverage, right? And then they

00:16:42.190 --> 00:16:45.190
certainly exercised it. Because I think it's,

00:16:45.190 --> 00:16:48.669
like you were saying, pre -1986, as a result

00:16:48.669 --> 00:16:51.149
of that deal, I think clubs were receiving about

00:16:51.149 --> 00:16:53.950
25 grand a year in television rights in the mid

00:16:53.950 --> 00:16:56.909
-80s. Sounds about right, yeah. And then... in

00:16:56.909 --> 00:17:00.889
1986 the football league renegotiated its tv

00:17:00.889 --> 00:17:04.470
deal it was a two -year deal 6 .3 million which

00:17:04.470 --> 00:17:07.029
meant that the clubs received about 600k a year

00:17:07.029 --> 00:17:10.589
by 1988 but what's interesting about that is

00:17:10.589 --> 00:17:13.430
that that coincided with like a drive for greater

00:17:13.430 --> 00:17:16.809
revenue generally and the division one clubs

00:17:16.809 --> 00:17:18.609
continuously threatening to break away which

00:17:18.609 --> 00:17:21.069
meant that they secured an increase in the voting

00:17:21.069 --> 00:17:25.269
power yeah as well so like they were really by

00:17:25.269 --> 00:17:27.809
the time like the sort of mid to late 80s came

00:17:27.809 --> 00:17:29.829
along they were starting to demand higher fees

00:17:29.829 --> 00:17:33.289
from broadcasters and influence um stamp their

00:17:33.289 --> 00:17:36.069
authority rather on sort of commercial relations

00:17:36.069 --> 00:17:38.089
and that sort of thing yeah and the other thing

00:17:38.089 --> 00:17:39.630
that was changing in the world at that time as

00:17:39.630 --> 00:17:41.710
well towards the late 80s and certainly into

00:17:41.710 --> 00:17:45.309
the early 90s was cable tv that american favorite

00:17:45.309 --> 00:17:47.950
of the 1980s were coming over the atlantic yeah

00:17:47.950 --> 00:17:51.569
and all of a sudden pay for tv was a thing not

00:17:51.569 --> 00:17:54.019
just you four terrestrial channels as it was

00:17:54.019 --> 00:17:56.319
back then you could pay and you could get more

00:17:56.319 --> 00:17:58.559
channels and obviously one of the competitors

00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:02.200
in that market was rupert murdoch's b sky b yeah

00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:04.380
yeah well this is the thing the context of that

00:18:04.380 --> 00:18:07.220
is really interesting as well because itv i mean

00:18:07.220 --> 00:18:08.579
i know everyone's probably thinking this is some

00:18:08.579 --> 00:18:10.180
dry shit for talking about the premier league

00:18:10.180 --> 00:18:13.440
just talking business but like itv i did warn

00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:18.460
you at the beginning itv is um they're the main

00:18:18.460 --> 00:18:22.259
players at this point I think in 88, they signed

00:18:22.259 --> 00:18:24.859
a deal worth about 44 million, but the top clubs

00:18:24.859 --> 00:18:28.279
took 75 % of that income because that was the

00:18:28.279 --> 00:18:30.940
top 10 teams threatening a Super League. And

00:18:30.940 --> 00:18:32.740
they literally called it a Super League. And

00:18:32.740 --> 00:18:36.740
ITV were actually pushing Greg Dyke, who would

00:18:36.740 --> 00:18:38.859
later become the chairman of the FA. People might

00:18:38.859 --> 00:18:41.339
be familiar with his name. He was basically managing

00:18:41.339 --> 00:18:46.019
director of the London division of ITV. And he

00:18:46.019 --> 00:18:48.759
was like... in secret negotiations with like

00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:51.599
man united liverpool spurs everton and arsenal

00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:54.259
about reigniting like this breakaway concept

00:18:54.259 --> 00:18:57.039
and stuff and like negotiating the idea of of

00:18:57.039 --> 00:18:59.319
you know of like setting up a breakaway league

00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:03.980
of sorts and sky as you say they were they were

00:19:03.980 --> 00:19:07.500
going bust mate like they yeah they were in major

00:19:07.500 --> 00:19:12.210
shit and In fact, I think this is fun. So I think

00:19:12.210 --> 00:19:16.750
they had three options, Sky, in the early 90s,

00:19:16.750 --> 00:19:18.210
which was... I know what you're going to say

00:19:18.210 --> 00:19:21.289
here, and this is fun. It was to offer its subscribers

00:19:21.289 --> 00:19:25.569
access to porn. Always a good place to start.

00:19:25.750 --> 00:19:28.390
Offer their subscribers access to major film

00:19:28.390 --> 00:19:31.549
or get involved in exclusive sporting events.

00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:35.460
They decided that porn was too problematic, which

00:19:35.460 --> 00:19:37.200
to be fair, even from a business perspective,

00:19:37.339 --> 00:19:39.140
is probably the right call because it's now very

00:19:39.140 --> 00:19:44.019
free. Oh yeah, they'd have been out of business

00:19:44.019 --> 00:19:46.460
by now. Might have given them a good 15 years.

00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:49.160
And they fucked off film because they'd already

00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:51.759
had loads of bad experiences negotiating with

00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:53.960
film industry and paying over the odds for films

00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:56.019
that flopped, I think. And probably massively

00:19:56.019 --> 00:19:58.680
simplifying that business model. But they'd also

00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:01.160
be in trouble with that nowadays as well. Yes,

00:20:01.160 --> 00:20:04.019
with Netflix and people like that. And yeah,

00:20:04.059 --> 00:20:06.859
Amazon and just cinema generally. But yeah, anyway,

00:20:07.140 --> 00:20:12.140
what Sky did have is they had access to, they

00:20:12.140 --> 00:20:13.720
already had the rights for cricket and rugby

00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:16.839
league. And they started to assemble talent to

00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:20.400
present football coverage. And very smartly,

00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:22.200
and I think this is the really, I actually think

00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:23.900
this is the kicker, mate. Like, I think this

00:20:23.900 --> 00:20:26.980
is little known, is the BBC couldn't afford live

00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:31.200
games. So they were just like desperate. to get

00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:33.099
match of the day and retain match of the day

00:20:33.099 --> 00:20:35.920
yeah and so sky entered into a deal with the

00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:39.460
bbc where if they won the rights to the premier

00:20:39.460 --> 00:20:41.160
league which we haven't even actually talked

00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:43.279
about how it formed yet but if they won the rights

00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:45.319
to the premier league then then bbc would get

00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:47.680
access to the highlights for match of the day

00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:50.559
yeah and so they fucked over itv in that sense

00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:52.400
and obviously the bbc are happy as larry because

00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:55.359
they get the they get match of the day not fun

00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:57.259
though obviously we're sort of skipping over

00:20:57.259 --> 00:20:58.920
a few sets we'll probably go back and talk about

00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:01.849
it but uh the the funny thing about this is if

00:21:01.849 --> 00:21:04.910
you like laughing at rich powerful men is that

00:21:04.910 --> 00:21:08.190
greg dyke started this whole process and then

00:21:08.190 --> 00:21:10.750
he got absolutely screwed over at the end yeah

00:21:11.369 --> 00:21:13.710
He was the one who started it all with ITV and

00:21:13.710 --> 00:21:15.910
then ITV ended up getting absolutely nothing.

00:21:16.109 --> 00:21:18.849
They got stiffed. BBC got match of the day and

00:21:18.849 --> 00:21:20.970
Sky obviously end up with the rights to the Premier

00:21:20.970 --> 00:21:22.690
League as everybody knows because it's still

00:21:22.690 --> 00:21:25.170
on Sky to this day. It is. And it's their biggest

00:21:25.170 --> 00:21:27.710
money earner by a mile. By an absolute mile.

00:21:27.930 --> 00:21:29.690
And the rights are just astonishingly expensive

00:21:29.690 --> 00:21:31.950
now as well. And they still make a huge profit.

00:21:32.109 --> 00:21:34.150
Well, anyone who's got a Sky Sports subscription

00:21:34.150 --> 00:21:37.089
will know why. Yes. As the price keeps going

00:21:37.089 --> 00:21:39.930
up and up and up. It does. Well, so yeah, I mean...

00:21:40.460 --> 00:21:43.220
To rewind then, the negotiations themselves,

00:21:43.700 --> 00:21:47.079
it's basically, it's three guys, but two out

00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:48.579
of three are particularly influential. And I'm

00:21:48.579 --> 00:21:49.799
not just saying that to take the piss out of

00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:53.420
Tottenham. So you had Martin Edwards of Man United

00:21:53.420 --> 00:21:56.059
and you had David Dean of Arsenal. and these

00:21:56.059 --> 00:21:58.680
two guys were like at the forefront of transforming

00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:00.980
football clubs into like major business ventures

00:22:00.980 --> 00:22:02.740
and applying basically like commercial principles

00:22:02.740 --> 00:22:06.160
and administrating clubs in a way that maximize

00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:08.259
revenue like so they were kind of like pioneers

00:22:08.259 --> 00:22:12.000
really of like the sporting sector and uh yeah

00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:15.059
and weirdly between them one all but one of the

00:22:15.059 --> 00:22:18.650
first dozen premier league yeah titles yeah yeah

00:22:18.650 --> 00:22:21.069
funnily enough and david dean's a real innovator

00:22:21.069 --> 00:22:23.890
from from from a biased arsenal perspective because

00:22:23.890 --> 00:22:25.849
he's the one who brought in arsene wenger and

00:22:25.849 --> 00:22:28.529
like brought him the foreign player or at least

00:22:28.529 --> 00:22:30.369
sort of maybe didn't bring them in because obviously

00:22:30.369 --> 00:22:32.690
i know there had been others but really embraced

00:22:32.690 --> 00:22:35.410
the idea of like multicultural football basically

00:22:35.410 --> 00:22:38.509
to arsenal's benefit because you know we hadn't

00:22:38.509 --> 00:22:40.589
won massive benefit and to the viewers benefit

00:22:40.589 --> 00:22:43.210
as well because Arsenal played some good football

00:22:43.210 --> 00:22:45.309
yeah they did and the standard fucking went through

00:22:45.309 --> 00:22:48.069
the roof as well with the influx of foreign players

00:22:48.069 --> 00:22:50.230
which we'll probably get to yeah the other guy

00:22:50.230 --> 00:22:52.710
was Irving Scholar and he was at Spurs and so

00:22:52.710 --> 00:22:54.589
they they're the ones who entered into sort of

00:22:54.589 --> 00:22:57.549
like didn't enter into they sort of instigated

00:22:57.549 --> 00:22:59.910
the secret discussions with Dyke and that sort

00:22:59.910 --> 00:23:03.980
of started around 1990 yeah and that gained a

00:23:03.980 --> 00:23:06.480
lot of traction because obviously the they basically

00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:09.960
managed to convince others that it would be advantageous

00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:12.000
to break away and set up like what is effectively

00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:14.460
now the premier league and but they obviously

00:23:14.460 --> 00:23:18.279
couldn't do it without the fa and so yeah they

00:23:18.279 --> 00:23:21.259
went to the fa this is the real yeah yeah yeah

00:23:21.259 --> 00:23:23.240
sorry i mean like you might know a bit more about

00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:24.940
this mate but they went as far as i'm aware they

00:23:24.940 --> 00:23:26.420
just basically went to the fa with cap in hand

00:23:26.420 --> 00:23:28.319
and was like we want to do this and the fa as

00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:30.759
you said hated the football league yeah so basically

00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:35.099
um the fa who was so resistant to anything like

00:23:35.099 --> 00:23:37.480
that in the past, any sort of concentration of

00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:39.640
power in anyone else's hands, any profiteering,

00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:42.160
anything like that. So determined to be a force

00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:44.920
for football for all. Well, all men, anyway,

00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:47.019
at that point. Sort of the bastions of early

00:23:47.019 --> 00:23:49.539
amateurism, organisation that used equality as

00:23:49.539 --> 00:23:52.619
their excuse to keep paying players or keep players

00:23:52.619 --> 00:23:55.460
paid as little as possible for years. And they

00:23:55.460 --> 00:23:57.700
went along with it because they went along with

00:23:57.700 --> 00:23:59.960
it because they were in a big old rivalry with

00:23:59.960 --> 00:24:02.140
the Football League for years and years. such

00:24:02.140 --> 00:24:05.160
things as club versus country rows then they

00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:07.819
produced this blueprint for the future of football

00:24:07.819 --> 00:24:12.339
in the early 1990s which is a weird old document

00:24:12.339 --> 00:24:16.019
but yeah basically it says that it tries to make

00:24:16.019 --> 00:24:19.039
the argument that a smaller top flight would

00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:21.619
be beneficial for the england team and i don't

00:24:21.619 --> 00:24:24.480
really understand why it comes to that conclusion

00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:27.519
but nevertheless it basically was going to get

00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:29.039
implemented the only thing that stopped it was

00:24:29.579 --> 00:24:31.799
Ken Bates came along who was the chairman of

00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:35.960
Chelsea and persuaded the FA out of it because

00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:37.819
Chelsea at the time were a bit of a yo -yo club

00:24:37.819 --> 00:24:40.359
and obviously 18 teams in the league would potentially

00:24:40.359 --> 00:24:42.460
screw them over as a team towards the bottom

00:24:42.460 --> 00:24:44.119
of the league at that point. The FA were just

00:24:44.119 --> 00:24:47.359
like, yep, go for it. But yeah, there was a guy

00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:50.319
at the FA, Graham Kelly, who was the chief executive

00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:52.900
of the FA at the time of the breakaway. He later

00:24:52.900 --> 00:24:56.000
admitted there was a huge mistake because at

00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:58.660
that point the clubs were so desperate to break

00:24:58.660 --> 00:25:02.019
away. The FA could have asked for concessions

00:25:02.019 --> 00:25:04.240
in order to do so. They could have asked for

00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:06.799
bigger redistribution of funds to the lower leagues

00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:09.480
as a result of tax put upon the profits. They

00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:12.220
probably would have accepted it, but the FA was

00:25:12.220 --> 00:25:15.279
so ready to screw over the Football League that

00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:17.240
they just said yes and didn't demand anything

00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:19.660
from it. He said by the time they realised what

00:25:19.660 --> 00:25:22.099
a mistake they made, it was too late. well yeah

00:25:22.099 --> 00:25:24.220
because they basically handed all of the power

00:25:24.220 --> 00:25:27.059
to the to the to the teams all the power and

00:25:27.059 --> 00:25:28.619
all the money because when they set it up it

00:25:28.619 --> 00:25:31.400
was set up on a on a basis that basically every

00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:34.339
single club would get a one club one vote motion

00:25:34.339 --> 00:25:37.079
and you needed two -thirds majority to get anything

00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:39.259
through and the fa didn't have a vote it's a

00:25:39.259 --> 00:25:41.200
premier league vote so it's the clubs within

00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:44.660
the premier league to vote on it yeah and it

00:25:44.660 --> 00:25:47.160
all got signed off i think it was december 91

00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:52.390
that uh rick powey rick powey rick parry rick

00:25:52.390 --> 00:25:54.910
has appointed the chief exec and obviously liverpool

00:25:54.910 --> 00:25:56.750
fans would be familiar with him because he would

00:25:56.750 --> 00:25:59.190
later join liverpool and if you wanted an indication

00:25:59.190 --> 00:26:01.710
of the direction of travel the chairman of the

00:26:01.710 --> 00:26:03.410
first premier league was a guy called sir john

00:26:03.410 --> 00:26:05.230
quinton who was the chairman of barclays bank

00:26:05.230 --> 00:26:07.009
and i don't think you really need to know anything

00:26:07.009 --> 00:26:08.769
else other than that do you to know which way

00:26:08.769 --> 00:26:11.170
it was going of the barclays premier league yeah

00:26:11.170 --> 00:26:16.529
crazy so anyway plan was drawn up first premier

00:26:16.529 --> 00:26:20.220
league 18 clubs to be created in time for the

00:26:20.220 --> 00:26:23.619
92 -93 season. But basically the big fundamental

00:26:23.619 --> 00:26:26.619
difference is the Premier League was split the

00:26:26.619 --> 00:26:29.500
money amongst all of the clubs active in just

00:26:29.500 --> 00:26:32.160
the Premier League. And that was it really. Yeah,

00:26:32.180 --> 00:26:35.519
I mean, it was the only change because the format

00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:37.259
didn't change. There's still 22 teams in the

00:26:37.259 --> 00:26:40.619
league, still free game relegated. No change

00:26:40.619 --> 00:26:43.039
to matches, no change to anything other than

00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:46.039
the TV coverage got a bit more Americanised.

00:26:46.299 --> 00:26:48.289
Yeah. they took it took their influence from

00:26:48.289 --> 00:26:51.190
monday night football uh which is obviously as

00:26:51.190 --> 00:26:52.910
in monday night american football the american

00:26:52.910 --> 00:26:55.990
uh tv show introduced a similar thing monday

00:26:55.990 --> 00:26:59.250
night football with halftime shows and cheerleaders

00:26:59.250 --> 00:27:01.650
and fireworks and everything oh yeah the first

00:27:01.650 --> 00:27:04.190
one is cringe isn't it it's so cringy yeah and

00:27:04.190 --> 00:27:06.509
they got rid of that pretty quickly but uh the

00:27:06.509 --> 00:27:08.829
coverage did improve after that and they've had

00:27:08.829 --> 00:27:11.170
some good presenters yes in the time and some

00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:14.720
bad presenters as well well yes indeed like it

00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:17.380
like like all good business i mean i'd like we

00:27:17.380 --> 00:27:19.160
haven't even explained the context of the bidding

00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:22.680
war though because if i think this is really

00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:24.559
important because obviously said in the 80s like

00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:27.740
this you know there's division of about uh 600k

00:27:27.740 --> 00:27:31.539
a year for the teams so uh to put that into context

00:27:31.539 --> 00:27:35.539
and also to put into context how badly sky needed

00:27:35.539 --> 00:27:42.360
this uh sky we're losing 14 million a week Not

00:27:42.360 --> 00:27:45.960
the best business model. No. And by 1991, it

00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:48.519
was still losing 1 .5 million a week and had

00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:51.960
accumulated 2 billion in debt. So they were in

00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:56.900
the shit. The bidding war ensued between primarily

00:27:56.900 --> 00:28:00.640
ITV and Sky. And I think it started at like just

00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:03.799
over 100 mil, which, you know, divided by 20

00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:06.859
teams is still... a significant increase per

00:28:06.859 --> 00:28:09.799
team on um the 600k they were getting it was

00:28:09.799 --> 00:28:12.099
it two mil some something like that no five mil

00:28:12.099 --> 00:28:14.559
sorry my maths is terrible yeah although that

00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:16.519
i think that was over four or five seasons yeah

00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:18.839
yeah there'll be about a million each yes in

00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:21.059
the beginning obviously yes as you're about to

00:28:21.059 --> 00:28:23.460
say it went up from that it ends up being like

00:28:23.460 --> 00:28:25.359
because there's just not bore everyone with this

00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:29.559
ends up being 305 million over five years yeah

00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:32.519
and the interesting thing about that is uh itv

00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:36.130
is up their bid and itv bid something like 260

00:28:36.130 --> 00:28:39.670
million pounds 262 million pounds for their rights

00:28:39.670 --> 00:28:42.869
but then a certain alan sugar who was tottenham

00:28:42.869 --> 00:28:45.890
chairman uh but more importantly he was the supplier

00:28:45.890 --> 00:28:49.730
of sky dishes so the uh the dishes that you used

00:28:49.730 --> 00:28:50.930
to have to put on the side of your house to get

00:28:50.930 --> 00:28:54.130
sky was it the amstrad yeah so he tipped off

00:28:54.130 --> 00:28:57.589
sky and told them to blow that offer out of the

00:28:57.589 --> 00:29:00.289
water which sky promptly did with their 305 million

00:29:00.289 --> 00:29:02.880
pound bid Which one? And do you know the ironic

00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:05.220
thing about all of this? Spurs were shit? No,

00:29:05.220 --> 00:29:07.180
that bid was... Well, yes, I mean that. That's

00:29:07.180 --> 00:29:11.039
funny. But that bid was accepted in a 14 -6 split

00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:14.980
with two abstentions, right? Arsenal, Villa,

00:29:15.220 --> 00:29:17.980
Everton, Leeds, Liverpool and United all voted

00:29:17.980 --> 00:29:20.539
in favour of the ITV deal. That's weird. I'm

00:29:20.539 --> 00:29:21.880
guessing because they were tapped up in the first

00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:23.660
place. Yeah, yeah. And there must have been like...

00:29:23.660 --> 00:29:25.259
There's probably a sweetener for them there or

00:29:25.259 --> 00:29:29.160
something. But like, given that Arsenal, Liverpool...

00:29:29.369 --> 00:29:31.829
Manchester United in particular have gone on

00:29:31.829 --> 00:29:33.789
to be some of the most dominant teams in the

00:29:33.789 --> 00:29:35.849
Premier League era and Everton have never been

00:29:35.849 --> 00:29:39.250
relegated and obviously Villa, but for a blip,

00:29:39.269 --> 00:29:42.230
have also been a mainstay. It's just very ironic.

00:29:42.369 --> 00:29:44.849
Just not mentioning Leeds being in that list.

00:29:46.069 --> 00:29:48.089
Leeds just had a bit more misfortune, didn't

00:29:48.089 --> 00:29:49.690
they? That's the only reason why I left them

00:29:49.690 --> 00:29:51.390
out, not for any other reason. Badly managed

00:29:51.390 --> 00:29:54.230
team. Yeah. Screwed over by their own management.

00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:56.259
But yeah, I just thought it was funny because

00:29:56.259 --> 00:29:58.460
they voted down the Sky deal and actually they've

00:29:58.460 --> 00:30:00.940
ended up being the biggest beneficiaries of it,

00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:06.059
arguably. But yes, Sky went from 1 .5 million

00:30:06.059 --> 00:30:10.079
loss and a loss in 1992 generally as a business,

00:30:10.339 --> 00:30:13.880
a 1 .5 million a week loss that is, and a financial

00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:17.559
loss for the year ending 92 to a 62 million pound

00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:20.980
profit in 93. It's crazy. Talk about turning

00:30:20.980 --> 00:30:23.880
your fortunes around. Yeah. for better or worse

00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:25.859
the stranglehold they have over football now

00:30:25.859 --> 00:30:28.839
and I mean you can get into debates talking about

00:30:28.839 --> 00:30:31.299
the good and the bad of it and all the money

00:30:31.299 --> 00:30:33.339
that's coming to the game the most important

00:30:33.339 --> 00:30:35.859
thing to talk about in terms of the money that's

00:30:35.859 --> 00:30:37.960
coming to the game is that none of it for a very

00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:39.839
long time it's starting to get a bit better now

00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:43.140
but none of it went to the Football League and

00:30:43.140 --> 00:30:48.740
interesting stat for you by 2004 of the 72 teams

00:30:48.740 --> 00:30:50.240
who were in the Football League at the start

00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:53.380
of the 2004 -2005 season Guess how many of them

00:30:53.380 --> 00:30:56.579
had been in administration or financial troubles

00:30:56.579 --> 00:31:01.440
or whatever else at that point out of 72 teams?

00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:03.259
I don't know. You're just going to have to give

00:31:03.259 --> 00:31:06.259
me the number. It's going to be high. Half. Whoa.

00:31:06.660 --> 00:31:09.099
36. That is high. That's higher than I thought

00:31:09.099 --> 00:31:11.460
it would be. And that was 11 years after this.

00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:13.319
Even knowing it was going to be high, I would

00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:16.420
have probably gone for a quarter of the teams

00:31:16.420 --> 00:31:20.039
at tops. Half is absurd. It's absurd, yeah. It's

00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:22.559
crazy. It is. Yeah, I mean, that's the problem.

00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:26.019
There's a bigger gap between the haves and have

00:31:26.019 --> 00:31:28.839
-nots, right? Which persists to the modern day.

00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:31.539
It put pressure on those football league clubs

00:31:31.539 --> 00:31:33.519
or the football league to try and catch up as

00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:35.980
well, which led to that disastrous deal again

00:31:35.980 --> 00:31:39.480
with ITV involved screwing over the football

00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:44.240
league, the ITV digital saga in about 2002 where

00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:48.019
they massively over -promised or overpaid for...

00:31:48.349 --> 00:31:50.150
football league highlight rights and then simply

00:31:50.150 --> 00:31:53.170
couldn't sell enough on the back of it so couldn't

00:31:53.170 --> 00:31:56.089
then pay the football league who in turn obviously

00:31:56.089 --> 00:31:57.809
couldn't play pay their clubs and clubs that

00:31:57.809 --> 00:31:59.750
had budgeted for that money found themselves

00:31:59.750 --> 00:32:02.369
going into receivership and being screwed over

00:32:02.369 --> 00:32:06.650
yeah that's mental i mean vicious cycle and now

00:32:06.650 --> 00:32:10.670
guess who has the football league rights sky

00:32:10.670 --> 00:32:15.579
yeah yeah You can literally watch every football

00:32:15.579 --> 00:32:18.539
league game now. Like, it's possible. Yeah, and

00:32:18.539 --> 00:32:20.339
they're paying good money, or relatively good

00:32:20.339 --> 00:32:21.759
money. Certainly nothing compared to what they're

00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:23.980
paying the Premier League, but it's helping.

00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:27.019
Yeah, for sure. Although, it's not to say there

00:32:27.019 --> 00:32:29.299
aren't still football league clubs who are struggling

00:32:29.299 --> 00:32:33.099
financially, and this week we've got a national

00:32:33.099 --> 00:32:34.819
league club potentially going out of business

00:32:34.819 --> 00:32:37.779
in Morecambe. Yeah, yeah, seen that. Which would

00:32:37.779 --> 00:32:41.039
be a shame. Always, yeah. But yeah, I mean, like...

00:32:41.549 --> 00:32:44.210
The money is the obvious thing. I guess the cool

00:32:44.210 --> 00:32:46.589
thing about it there is the standard. I mean,

00:32:46.609 --> 00:32:51.670
it was set up in 1992. May 1992 was when it was

00:32:51.670 --> 00:32:54.029
officially formed. First season, 1992 -1993 season.

00:32:54.690 --> 00:32:57.769
15th of August, 1992. We're off. We're away.

00:32:57.950 --> 00:33:00.210
The Premier League is here. First Super Sunday

00:33:00.210 --> 00:33:02.890
game? Who was it? Nottingham Forest versus Liverpool

00:33:02.890 --> 00:33:04.829
was the first one. So Brian Clough's, Nottingham

00:33:04.829 --> 00:33:06.890
Forest, Brian Clough's. Last year as Nottingham

00:33:06.890 --> 00:33:09.250
Forest manager. Ill -fated last year as Nottingham

00:33:09.250 --> 00:33:11.940
Forest. Went down that year to end his illustrious

00:33:11.940 --> 00:33:14.440
career. Oh, yeah. They went down in the first

00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:16.559
year of the Prem, didn't they? That's a shame.

00:33:16.940 --> 00:33:19.680
Brian Clough, legend. yeah yeah it was it was

00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:21.039
actually it's quite interesting this because

00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:23.859
the first league involved the 19 highest place

00:33:23.859 --> 00:33:26.500
teams in the first division as well as the champions

00:33:26.500 --> 00:33:28.599
runners up and playoff winners of the second

00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:30.660
division so there were 22 teams in total and

00:33:30.660 --> 00:33:32.619
obviously there's only 20 now we'll come on to

00:33:32.619 --> 00:33:34.759
how that came about yeah this is what also led

00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:36.619
to the renaming of the various divisions as you

00:33:36.619 --> 00:33:39.160
already spoke about on our last episode so if

00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:40.579
anybody's interested in the football league and

00:33:40.579 --> 00:33:42.960
that's history as we keep saying just go back

00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:44.650
and listen to that one You'll get a bit more

00:33:44.650 --> 00:33:46.930
information. But yeah, the people that got screwed

00:33:46.930 --> 00:33:49.809
were Luton, Lutontown, Notts County and West

00:33:49.809 --> 00:33:53.269
Ham United. They went down into what would become

00:33:53.269 --> 00:33:55.210
the first division. They didn't take part in

00:33:55.210 --> 00:33:57.390
the inaugural Premier League season and they

00:33:57.390 --> 00:34:00.490
were replaced by Ipswich, Ipswich Town that is,

00:34:00.589 --> 00:34:02.890
Middlesbrough and Blackburn Rovers. Oh yeah,

00:34:03.009 --> 00:34:04.849
I forgot Blackburn only just got promoted. They

00:34:04.849 --> 00:34:06.809
got very, very good very, very quickly. They

00:34:06.809 --> 00:34:10.460
sneaked it. But yeah, of the original 22, all

00:34:10.460 --> 00:34:12.880
the usual suspects are there, as you might imagine.

00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:15.960
But you also had Wimbledon, now in brackets MK

00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:19.599
Dons, who we don't like, boo. Both Sheffield

00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:22.380
sides, that's Wednesday and United. QPR, Oldham

00:34:22.380 --> 00:34:25.139
Athletic of all teams. Middlesbrough, Southampton,

00:34:25.260 --> 00:34:27.559
Ipswich, Coventry, and as I've said, Blackburn.

00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:30.480
An eclectic mix of teams compared to what people

00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:32.239
would be familiar with now. Yeah, you could say

00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:34.719
that. First Premier League goal? You'll know

00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:36.949
this. Come on, mate. Of course I know this. Brian

00:34:36.949 --> 00:34:38.650
Dean against Manchester United. Pretty much the

00:34:38.650 --> 00:34:40.650
low point of Manchester United's season, unfortunately.

00:34:41.090 --> 00:34:44.510
It all got better from there. It did. And in

00:34:44.510 --> 00:34:46.989
actual fact, that allides to the next thing I

00:34:46.989 --> 00:34:49.389
was going to say, which is United won the first

00:34:49.389 --> 00:34:52.309
edition. They did. Actually ended a 26 -year

00:34:52.309 --> 00:34:54.210
wait, though, to be crowned champions of England,

00:34:54.289 --> 00:34:57.329
to be fair to them. Yeah, and there's one thing

00:34:57.329 --> 00:34:59.469
I actually forgot to mention in the equality

00:34:59.469 --> 00:35:02.210
I was saying before, is that in 1983, it was

00:35:02.210 --> 00:35:04.710
actually 1983, this is why I had that year stuck

00:35:04.710 --> 00:35:07.250
in my head. That was when, for the first time

00:35:07.250 --> 00:35:09.789
ever, or first time for about 100 years, the

00:35:09.789 --> 00:35:12.869
FA stopped, the Football League stopped having

00:35:12.869 --> 00:35:15.630
gate receipts shared between the home team and

00:35:15.630 --> 00:35:19.110
the away team, which it used to be even 80 -20

00:35:19.110 --> 00:35:21.769
split or 75 -25 % split. I've read different

00:35:21.769 --> 00:35:24.090
things in different places. But they used to

00:35:24.090 --> 00:35:26.630
split the gate receipts for matches. That ended

00:35:26.630 --> 00:35:29.050
in 1983, again, under pressure from these top

00:35:29.050 --> 00:35:32.030
teams who had bigger stadiums. And it was no

00:35:32.030 --> 00:35:34.650
coincidence from that point. The team with the

00:35:34.650 --> 00:35:36.989
biggest stadium in the land then got better and

00:35:36.989 --> 00:35:39.489
better and better as the decade went on. And

00:35:39.489 --> 00:35:41.110
don't get me wrong, Alex Ferguson had a huge

00:35:41.110 --> 00:35:43.670
impact on it as well. But Manchester United were

00:35:43.670 --> 00:35:47.250
the richest club in the country in 1992 -1993

00:35:47.250 --> 00:35:49.710
because their stadium was the biggest. That makes

00:35:49.710 --> 00:35:51.949
a lot of sense. I did not know that. That makes

00:35:51.949 --> 00:35:54.989
perfect sense. You're always duped into thinking

00:35:54.989 --> 00:35:56.610
it's because they were really good at marketing.

00:35:59.110 --> 00:36:01.829
I mean, I'm sure they are. Don't get me wrong.

00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:04.780
It's a big foot up, isn't it? If the original

00:36:04.780 --> 00:36:08.420
disparater is your gate receipts. Yeah, it's

00:36:08.420 --> 00:36:10.980
a snowball effect, ultimately. Because then you

00:36:10.980 --> 00:36:12.739
have more money to invest and blah, blah, blah.

00:36:13.099 --> 00:36:15.099
Exactly. Which means you can get good players

00:36:15.099 --> 00:36:16.739
in and those players turn out to be good and

00:36:16.739 --> 00:36:20.260
handsome and photogenic like David Beckham and

00:36:20.260 --> 00:36:23.159
then you become a bigger worldwide brand because

00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:29.880
of it. Less so Gary Neville. Yeah. Current format?

00:36:31.299 --> 00:36:33.519
We need to explain how we got to where we are.

00:36:33.739 --> 00:36:36.900
Yeah, by relegating a lot of teams. Indeed, four

00:36:36.900 --> 00:36:39.280
in fact. Don't tell me who they are because I

00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:41.460
think I can name them. Okay. Let's see if I can

00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:44.320
scratch the annals of my brain. 94 -95 season,

00:36:44.500 --> 00:36:47.159
Blackburn Rovers are your champs. Ipswich is

00:36:47.159 --> 00:36:49.699
one of them. Yes. Leicester is definitely one

00:36:49.699 --> 00:36:52.460
of them. Yes. I want to say, who were the last

00:36:52.460 --> 00:36:55.380
two? Norwich. Norwich was one of them. Well done,

00:36:55.460 --> 00:36:58.099
that's three. You just need the fourth. Middlesbrough.

00:36:58.619 --> 00:37:00.679
Middlesbrough were definitely promoted. Crystal

00:37:00.679 --> 00:37:02.940
Palace? Crystal Palace did good. How have you

00:37:02.940 --> 00:37:04.840
got four from four there? That's sensational

00:37:04.840 --> 00:37:06.780
work. And yes, you were right. Middlesbrough

00:37:06.780 --> 00:37:10.920
came up with... Can you get the bonus ball? As

00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:12.539
in the other team to get promoted? With Middlesbrough,

00:37:12.619 --> 00:37:23.250
yeah. 95 -96. No. I was just about to lord you

00:37:23.250 --> 00:37:24.869
up there, but I'm still going to because I think

00:37:24.869 --> 00:37:26.989
it's appropriate. Those who don't know much about

00:37:26.989 --> 00:37:28.949
Jack, and that's anyone who listens to this podcast

00:37:28.949 --> 00:37:32.369
that isn't friends with him, will not know that

00:37:32.369 --> 00:37:34.110
he has an encyclopedic knowledge of football,

00:37:34.230 --> 00:37:36.929
which is why I was able to recite those teams,

00:37:37.150 --> 00:37:40.010
what was it, 20 years after the fact. Yeah, just

00:37:40.010 --> 00:37:42.030
because I read it in 1997 or something like that.

00:37:42.130 --> 00:37:45.230
Yeah. I still can't remember who else got promoted.

00:37:45.550 --> 00:37:48.119
Bolton Wanderers. okay i wouldn't have came up

00:37:48.119 --> 00:37:51.340
so that basically meant you had your 22 teams

00:37:51.340 --> 00:37:54.159
four going down two coming up 20 clubs bob's

00:37:54.159 --> 00:37:58.360
your uncle 95 96 we're away current format 51

00:37:58.360 --> 00:38:00.460
teams have played in the premier league since

00:38:00.460 --> 00:38:02.940
its formation do you want to do you want to have

00:38:02.940 --> 00:38:05.820
a hazard a guess of where they all are now not

00:38:05.820 --> 00:38:07.159
every single team don't get me wrong i'm not

00:38:07.159 --> 00:38:08.719
going to test that encyclopedic knowledge and

00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:11.119
to that extent but well 20 of the teams have

00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:12.639
played in the premier league are still in the

00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:14.519
premier league well done that's a good start

00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:17.730
good start yeah So obviously Wimbledon no longer

00:38:17.730 --> 00:38:20.269
exists or exists as MK Don's, depending on your

00:38:20.269 --> 00:38:24.469
opinion, but they no longer exist. Yeah. Swindon

00:38:24.469 --> 00:38:26.489
have been in there. Yes. They are, well, they're

00:38:26.489 --> 00:38:28.570
League One now, League Two. League Two, along

00:38:28.570 --> 00:38:31.090
with Oldham. They're the three. Oldham, yeah.

00:38:31.309 --> 00:38:33.570
They're the three that are either bust or in

00:38:33.570 --> 00:38:35.250
League Two. That's as low as they go, though.

00:38:35.550 --> 00:38:38.010
Wigan are League One. So you've got, yeah, how

00:38:38.010 --> 00:38:39.989
many teams do you think are in League One, roughly?

00:38:40.909 --> 00:38:43.429
Bolton, are they in League One now? Yes, they

00:38:43.429 --> 00:38:46.159
are. Haven't been promoted, I don't think. You

00:38:46.159 --> 00:38:49.420
can't name them all. Birmingham just got promoted,

00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:52.820
so they're in the championship. Yeah, I'm not

00:38:52.820 --> 00:38:55.300
going to name them all. So there's 10 in League

00:38:55.300 --> 00:38:58.440
1, which means there's 19 in the championship,

00:38:58.619 --> 00:39:01.380
which out of a league of 24 shows you how competitive

00:39:01.380 --> 00:39:02.980
the championship is, which is what we were talking

00:39:02.980 --> 00:39:05.260
about before. Luton being one of them, obviously,

00:39:05.420 --> 00:39:08.539
in League 1. In League 1, yeah. It does also

00:39:08.539 --> 00:39:12.019
show, though, that if out of the 51 teams that

00:39:12.019 --> 00:39:15.309
have played in the league... 49 of them are in

00:39:15.309 --> 00:39:18.590
the top two divisions. What an advantage having

00:39:18.590 --> 00:39:21.650
that money is. Indeed. And of them, how many

00:39:21.650 --> 00:39:24.349
have won it? Not many. Not many at all. Like

00:39:24.349 --> 00:39:26.710
barely any, in fact. Who have won it? That's

00:39:26.710 --> 00:39:30.150
a good transition. Manchester United. Do you

00:39:30.150 --> 00:39:32.050
want me just to go through every year? Well,

00:39:32.070 --> 00:39:34.369
no. I was going to say Manchester United have

00:39:34.369 --> 00:39:37.949
won the most. They've got 13. Yeah. City, second

00:39:37.949 --> 00:39:41.710
with eight. Manchester City. Chelsea, we've got

00:39:41.710 --> 00:39:45.159
five. Arsenal, I've got three. Liverpool, two.

00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:47.719
Yeah. And there's only two others, isn't there?

00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:49.400
Yeah, Leicester and Blackburn. Leicester and

00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:51.500
Blackburn, yeah. Seven teams have won it. Leicester

00:39:51.500 --> 00:39:53.320
won the Premier League. Do you remember when

00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:54.800
Leicester won the Premier League? Do you remember

00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:58.400
when Leicester won the Premier League? Shall

00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:01.039
I tell that story? Because I know a bit about

00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:03.719
this. I think that would be a good story to tell.

00:40:04.780 --> 00:40:07.190
You can tell me it as if... You're telling me

00:40:07.190 --> 00:40:08.349
it for the first time because I don't believe

00:40:08.349 --> 00:40:09.929
you. I don't believe that Leicester won the Premier

00:40:09.929 --> 00:40:12.230
League. God, Leicester City won the Premier League.

00:40:12.949 --> 00:40:15.690
Right, so I want to say it all started when then

00:40:15.690 --> 00:40:18.130
-manager Nigel Pearson's son, who was playing

00:40:18.130 --> 00:40:20.550
for the team, racially abused a Thai prostitute

00:40:20.550 --> 00:40:22.369
during an orgy on Leicester's pre -season tour

00:40:22.369 --> 00:40:24.610
of Thailand. But that's actually not quite where

00:40:24.610 --> 00:40:26.469
it started, although it did play a very significant

00:40:26.469 --> 00:40:29.929
role. So we'll come back to that. I just had

00:40:29.929 --> 00:40:31.670
to cover my mouth because I was laughing so much.

00:40:32.690 --> 00:40:34.289
We will come back. I knew what you were going

00:40:34.289 --> 00:40:36.110
to say before you said this. That is one of the

00:40:36.110 --> 00:40:38.710
weirdest sliding doors, butterfly moment effects

00:40:38.710 --> 00:40:41.190
in sporting history. And it didn't even start

00:40:41.190 --> 00:40:44.949
there. Right. So where did it actually start?

00:40:45.429 --> 00:40:50.329
Jesus. Well, in 2008, 2009, Leicester were in

00:40:50.329 --> 00:40:53.289
League One of all places. They'd just been relegated

00:40:53.289 --> 00:40:56.469
from the championship. And thankfully for them,

00:40:56.510 --> 00:40:59.230
they were quickly promoted back to the championship

00:40:59.230 --> 00:41:03.670
by winning League One in 2009, 2010. And then

00:41:03.670 --> 00:41:06.510
the reason that's significant is because in August

00:41:06.510 --> 00:41:09.510
2010, so their return to the championship season,

00:41:09.789 --> 00:41:13.130
the Asia Football Investments Consortium, including

00:41:13.130 --> 00:41:17.690
Vichai Rakrashirskorn. I don't know how you pronounce

00:41:17.690 --> 00:41:19.429
his name. Everyone knows who Vichai is, though.

00:41:19.429 --> 00:41:21.070
He's the guy who died in the helicopter crash.

00:41:21.820 --> 00:41:24.300
He purchased Leicester and that was obviously

00:41:24.300 --> 00:41:27.820
a buyout that he was a wealthy man and he consolidated

00:41:27.820 --> 00:41:30.179
their position in the league and obviously that

00:41:30.179 --> 00:41:34.199
financing helped and 2012 -2013 they made the

00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:38.019
playoffs finishing sixth. Now that playoffs is

00:41:38.019 --> 00:41:40.920
also quite spectacular because they lost in the

00:41:40.920 --> 00:41:43.000
playoffs to Watford in the semis in one of the

00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:45.460
greatest playoff semi -final ties. to ever be

00:41:45.460 --> 00:41:47.900
played. Yes. They were 1 -0 up. You'll have heard

00:41:47.900 --> 00:41:50.699
a clip from that match in the intro of last week's

00:41:50.699 --> 00:41:54.619
episode. Yeah, yeah. Deeney! That one. Incredible.

00:41:54.940 --> 00:41:59.059
So, 1 -0 up from the first leg. Sorry, go on.

00:41:59.139 --> 00:42:00.579
Go on, what were you going to say? I was just

00:42:00.579 --> 00:42:02.380
going to say, you explain a bit. If you haven't

00:42:02.380 --> 00:42:04.699
seen this highlight, immediately just pause this

00:42:04.699 --> 00:42:07.059
if you can, or as soon as you finish your drive

00:42:07.059 --> 00:42:08.940
or whatever, watch this highlight. Just type

00:42:08.940 --> 00:42:13.579
in Troy Deeney. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. So Leicester

00:42:13.579 --> 00:42:15.800
are 1 -0 up from the first leg, and it was 1

00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:17.800
-1 in the second leg, so they were 2 -1 up on

00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:21.380
aggregate. 65th minute, Watford take the lead,

00:42:21.559 --> 00:42:25.059
2 -1 on the day, 2 -2 on aggregate, and, you

00:42:25.059 --> 00:42:28.199
know, fine. It's close, it's tight, this can

00:42:28.199 --> 00:42:31.380
happen, one goal in it, home and away, no problem.

00:42:32.099 --> 00:42:34.920
95th minute of injury time, Leicester get a penalty.

00:42:35.420 --> 00:42:38.480
Anthony Nochart's taking it. If he scores, Leicester

00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:41.179
are going to the final. He took it. Almunia saved.

00:42:41.480 --> 00:42:44.099
Almunia saved again, as it says on the commentary.

00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:48.599
And then in a barely, literally a barely believable

00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:51.659
sequence of events, Watford just boot the ball

00:42:51.659 --> 00:42:54.739
downfield and break on the clearance. It's chipped

00:42:54.739 --> 00:42:57.239
to the back post, knotted back down into the

00:42:57.239 --> 00:42:59.460
centre on the penalty spot area. Troy Deeney

00:42:59.460 --> 00:43:02.579
arriving late, having sprinted the entire field,

00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:06.559
just smashes it in. Cue pandemonium, heartbreak

00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:09.510
for Leicester. Watford. Watford go through to

00:43:09.510 --> 00:43:11.389
the final and I think they were actually they

00:43:11.389 --> 00:43:12.949
may have went up actually that year they lost

00:43:12.949 --> 00:43:15.050
did they lose the final who did they lose to

00:43:15.050 --> 00:43:17.010
do you remember oh now you put me on the spot

00:43:17.010 --> 00:43:19.409
it doesn't matter it's not part of this story

00:43:19.409 --> 00:43:21.550
don't remember it doesn't matter no one gives

00:43:21.550 --> 00:43:23.369
a shit we're here to talk about Leicester so

00:43:24.430 --> 00:43:27.070
unless they then get promoted the following season

00:43:27.070 --> 00:43:31.429
the end of the 2013 -2014 season bearing in mind

00:43:31.429 --> 00:43:34.469
jack like just to reframe the context promoted

00:43:34.469 --> 00:43:37.550
to the premier league in 2013 -2014 they won

00:43:37.550 --> 00:43:42.010
the league in 2015 -2016 so what happens in the

00:43:42.010 --> 00:43:46.710
2014 -2015 season well they get battered basically

00:43:46.710 --> 00:43:49.230
yeah and they're marooned at the bottom of the

00:43:49.230 --> 00:43:51.869
table for four and a half months Late September

00:43:51.869 --> 00:43:54.949
and the end of December, they don't win a game.

00:43:55.050 --> 00:43:58.650
They go 13 without a win. Sounds like this season.

00:43:58.889 --> 00:44:01.530
They're bottom of the league at Christmas. They're

00:44:01.530 --> 00:44:05.130
god -awful. But then, in the run -in, they managed

00:44:05.130 --> 00:44:08.010
to put together seven wins from their last nine

00:44:08.010 --> 00:44:11.170
fixtures to survive. To put that into context,

00:44:11.269 --> 00:44:14.090
they only won 11 all year. And they won seven

00:44:14.090 --> 00:44:18.130
of them in the last nine. Bizarrely, they actually

00:44:18.130 --> 00:44:20.900
finished 14th. But it was only six points above

00:44:20.900 --> 00:44:22.699
the relegation zone. And I think they only secured

00:44:22.699 --> 00:44:24.619
their safety either on the penultimate or the

00:44:24.619 --> 00:44:26.760
final day. The only team to have beaten them

00:44:26.760 --> 00:44:28.420
in the run -in as well was Chelsea, who went

00:44:28.420 --> 00:44:30.699
on to win the league. And so basically they pull

00:44:30.699 --> 00:44:33.119
off one of the great escapes to stay in the league,

00:44:33.239 --> 00:44:35.239
having been promoted the year before. To say

00:44:35.239 --> 00:44:38.380
the least, yeah. Yeah, it's really great. I mean,

00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:40.380
one of three teams to survive being bottom at

00:44:40.380 --> 00:44:42.880
Christmas. If you're bottom at Christmas, you're

00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:48.139
normally fucked. Anyway, now we're back at the

00:44:48.139 --> 00:44:50.599
point where I started. We're on the Thai pre

00:44:50.599 --> 00:44:56.639
-season tour. Basically, because Leicester are

00:44:56.639 --> 00:44:59.159
owned by the Thai consortium, they go to Thailand

00:44:59.159 --> 00:45:02.900
on pre -season. And whilst out in Thailand, Nigel

00:45:02.900 --> 00:45:05.639
Pearson's son, who was also playing for Leicester

00:45:05.639 --> 00:45:08.860
at the time, is filmed racially abusing a Thai

00:45:08.860 --> 00:45:11.760
prostitute whilst having an orgy out in Thailand.

00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:15.559
That gets into the media. I wouldn't recommend

00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:18.840
that video. No, don't need to see it. It's fairly

00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:21.780
obvious what happened. His contract gets terminated

00:45:21.780 --> 00:45:25.340
by Leicester, which is unsurprising. That happens

00:45:25.340 --> 00:45:29.380
on the 17th of June, 2015. On the 30th of June,

00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:32.840
2015, Nigel Pearson is sacked as the manager

00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:35.019
with the club stating that the working relationship

00:45:35.019 --> 00:45:37.119
between Nigel and the board was no longer viable.

00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:40.260
I suspect that's because Nigel Pearson was taking

00:45:40.260 --> 00:45:43.300
some bizarre stance in defense of his son. Who

00:45:43.300 --> 00:45:47.250
cares? Yes. Yes. He gets sacked as well. It would

00:45:47.250 --> 00:45:49.829
be a tough position to take that, but fair play

00:45:49.829 --> 00:45:54.369
for him for trying. I guess it's his son, blah,

00:45:54.550 --> 00:45:56.989
blah, blah. But nonetheless, you can't have expected

00:45:56.989 --> 00:45:59.349
much. Didn't go into that negotiation with much

00:45:59.349 --> 00:46:02.130
leverage. I think that qualifies as gross misconduct,

00:46:02.329 --> 00:46:06.269
I would say. Yeah, I think that's right. So what

00:46:06.269 --> 00:46:08.230
does that mean? That means Leicester are managerless

00:46:08.230 --> 00:46:10.809
after surviving by the skin of their teeth the

00:46:10.809 --> 00:46:12.929
season before. Who could they possibly appoint?

00:46:13.510 --> 00:46:17.110
Well... the 13th of july 2015 they announced

00:46:17.110 --> 00:46:19.989
claudio ranieri as the club's new manager on

00:46:19.989 --> 00:46:22.210
a three -year contract and that decision was

00:46:22.210 --> 00:46:27.130
met with derision basically but cue dilly ding

00:46:27.130 --> 00:46:32.110
dilly dong baby there's there's very few people

00:46:32.110 --> 00:46:33.869
in this world who i can just hear the sound of

00:46:33.869 --> 00:46:36.650
their name and it makes me smile every time claudio

00:46:36.650 --> 00:46:40.269
ranieri is one of them warms the heart doesn't

00:46:40.269 --> 00:46:43.519
it it does The season starts and Claudio is an

00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:46.480
eccentric guy. So on the opening day, he plays

00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:48.860
Kasabian in the changing room to inspire the

00:46:48.860 --> 00:46:50.980
team. Kasabian being from Leicester, a rock band

00:46:50.980 --> 00:46:53.039
from Leicester. They don't keep a clean sheet

00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:55.199
until the 10th game of the season. And when they

00:46:55.199 --> 00:46:57.699
do, Ranieri takes them all out for pizza and

00:46:57.699 --> 00:47:01.119
champagne as a celebration. They are somehow

00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:04.119
top at Christmas because they've scored in their

00:47:04.119 --> 00:47:09.079
first 17 games. And long story short, guys, they

00:47:09.079 --> 00:47:12.039
maintain it. They pull it off. Vardy goes on

00:47:12.039 --> 00:47:15.159
one of the all -time scoring streaks. They hang

00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:16.800
on for dear life. They win the Premier League

00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:19.480
with one of the lowest totals ever. But who gives

00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:21.099
a shit? Everyone else was rubbish that year.

00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:23.619
Especially Spurs. They managed to come third

00:47:23.619 --> 00:47:28.559
in a two -horse race. But yeah, just one of the

00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:31.860
great stories. And in a lovely twist of fate,

00:47:32.019 --> 00:47:35.480
Leicester played Chelsea away on the final day

00:47:35.480 --> 00:47:37.630
of the season. At the time, that was the only

00:47:37.630 --> 00:47:39.570
other club that Claudio Ranieri had managed in

00:47:39.570 --> 00:47:41.889
England because he was the first manager of Chelsea

00:47:41.889 --> 00:47:44.429
under the Abramovich era. It was their first

00:47:44.429 --> 00:47:47.690
league title in their 132 -year history. It's

00:47:47.690 --> 00:47:51.030
Ranieri's only top -flight title to date. Everyone

00:47:51.030 --> 00:47:54.090
knows they were given the odds of 5 ,000 to 1,

00:47:54.269 --> 00:47:57.610
and they were the first non -Big Six champions

00:47:57.610 --> 00:48:02.550
since Blackburn in 1994 -95. But Leicester won

00:48:02.550 --> 00:48:05.510
the Premier League. That is insane. It's incredible.

00:48:06.759 --> 00:48:09.420
I don't think money necessarily had a part to

00:48:09.420 --> 00:48:11.860
play in it because obviously, you're talking

00:48:11.860 --> 00:48:13.820
Riyad Mahrez turned into an absolute world -beater

00:48:13.820 --> 00:48:15.940
and they bought him for less than a million pounds.

00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:21.820
N 'Golo Kante. If we talk about who are the greatest

00:48:21.820 --> 00:48:23.400
Premier League players of all time or the greatest

00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:25.780
Premier League team, N 'Golo Kante is going to

00:48:25.780 --> 00:48:27.360
get a mention because he's incredible at what

00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:30.340
he does. They picked them up for nothing and

00:48:30.340 --> 00:48:33.980
somehow got this team playing this... I really

00:48:33.980 --> 00:48:36.599
like counter -attacking football. And they mastered,

00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:38.880
because as long as it's attacking, counter -attacking

00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:41.659
football and not negative, like England sometimes

00:48:41.659 --> 00:48:44.340
played, as long as you're not sitting too deep.

00:48:44.420 --> 00:48:46.400
If you're being aggressive, trying to win the

00:48:46.400 --> 00:48:47.840
ball back and then springing quickly, and they

00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:50.099
were just doing it so well. Vardy was unstoppable.

00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:53.219
They were just good to watch. And in the meantime,

00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:56.179
all the other teams in the league who might reasonably

00:48:56.179 --> 00:48:58.619
be expected to put up a challenge, such as Chelsea,

00:48:58.780 --> 00:49:02.719
came 10th, I think, that season. Such as Manchester

00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:05.519
City, who had a bad year. such as Manchester

00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:07.920
United who had a bad season, Tottenham and Arsenal.

00:49:08.539 --> 00:49:10.760
Arsenal had a good finish to the season. We were

00:49:10.760 --> 00:49:13.480
the two that should have... Tottenham fell away.

00:49:13.699 --> 00:49:15.239
They were the only one who was really in the

00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:17.420
title race. Liverpool came eighth, I think, that

00:49:17.420 --> 00:49:19.539
season and just no one else wanted to win it

00:49:19.539 --> 00:49:22.079
and Leicester were never going to lose it. It

00:49:22.079 --> 00:49:24.360
was crazy. They won the league with 81 points.

00:49:24.659 --> 00:49:27.639
They drew 12 games, lost three. By 11 points

00:49:27.639 --> 00:49:29.739
or 10 points, I think. 10 points over Arsenal.

00:49:29.739 --> 00:49:33.599
Arsenal had 71. Yeah, we had 71. I guess the

00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:35.039
real question is, how much did they get Danny

00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:36.719
Drinkwater for? Because he's a Premier League

00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:39.500
winner. That's crazy. I mean, he was great that

00:49:39.500 --> 00:49:43.280
season. He was. Alongside N 'Golo Kante. He was

00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:45.260
awful for the remainder of his career. Yeah.

00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:47.539
There's a few of the players in that team who...

00:49:47.539 --> 00:49:50.539
Wes Morgan. Yeah, Wes Morgan. Jesus. But they

00:49:50.539 --> 00:49:53.360
were brilliant. They were. Wes Morgan, a Premier

00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:56.440
League winning captain. Incredible. Yeah, crazy.

00:49:56.679 --> 00:49:58.340
I'm just having a quick look at their results,

00:49:58.380 --> 00:50:02.469
actually. They got battered by us 5 -2. Lost

00:50:02.469 --> 00:50:04.289
two of their games that they lost at. The three

00:50:04.289 --> 00:50:06.230
were to Arsenal. They lost 2 -1 to Arsenal and

00:50:06.230 --> 00:50:08.750
5 -2. Everybody else they either drew and beat.

00:50:08.849 --> 00:50:11.570
I'm just trying to see if I can see who else

00:50:11.570 --> 00:50:14.329
they might have lost to. They had a hell of a

00:50:14.329 --> 00:50:16.789
season. They lost to Palace as well. That was

00:50:16.789 --> 00:50:18.530
it then. They only lost three games all season.

00:50:18.710 --> 00:50:21.550
Or did they? No, sorry. They lost to Liverpool.

00:50:21.849 --> 00:50:24.630
Sorry. Not Palace. They beat Palace 1 -0. Definitely

00:50:24.630 --> 00:50:27.730
beat us once. Vardy scored a screamer. Oh, yeah.

00:50:27.889 --> 00:50:29.389
He did actually score a screamer against you

00:50:29.389 --> 00:50:32.190
as well, didn't he? At their place at the King

00:50:32.190 --> 00:50:35.030
Power. Newcastle and Aston Villa both relegated

00:50:35.030 --> 00:50:38.670
that season. Yeah, wild season. Very wild. Going

00:50:38.670 --> 00:50:41.230
down with Norwich. Bournemouth staying up. But

00:50:41.230 --> 00:50:45.389
yeah. Yeah, Villa getting 17 points. Crazy. Southampton

00:50:45.389 --> 00:50:47.769
qualified for the Europa League that year. Yeah,

00:50:47.809 --> 00:50:49.789
finished above Liverpool. Quite remarkable. And

00:50:49.789 --> 00:50:53.510
West Ham. A season never to be repeated, most

00:50:53.510 --> 00:50:56.190
likely. But who knows? Who knows? Who knows?

00:50:56.349 --> 00:50:58.590
Yeah, literally, who knows? There's only one

00:50:58.590 --> 00:51:00.570
team. I had a check of the Premier League odds

00:51:00.570 --> 00:51:03.110
before this, just out of curiosity. There's only

00:51:03.110 --> 00:51:05.469
one team rated a 5 ,000 to one for the title.

00:51:05.610 --> 00:51:09.949
That is Leeds United. So put your bets on, boys

00:51:09.949 --> 00:51:13.469
and girls. Yeah, that's worth a little quid or

00:51:13.469 --> 00:51:17.429
two. Interesting fact about the odds. Manchester

00:51:17.429 --> 00:51:19.469
United are more likely, according to the bookmakers,

00:51:19.570 --> 00:51:21.929
to get relegated this season than they are to

00:51:21.929 --> 00:51:23.710
win the league. I wonder when the last time that

00:51:23.710 --> 00:51:28.230
happened was. That's crazy. That is crazy. Who

00:51:28.230 --> 00:51:30.789
are the all -time favourite? 25 -1 to get relegated

00:51:30.789 --> 00:51:33.789
and 40 -1 to win the league. Liverpool are favourites,

00:51:33.789 --> 00:51:36.090
but not odds on. Liverpool, Arsenal and City

00:51:36.090 --> 00:51:39.010
are all pretty close to one another, like 5 -2

00:51:39.010 --> 00:51:41.489
to 9 -2, that kind of spread. And then Chelsea

00:51:41.489 --> 00:51:45.050
are like 10 -1. Nice. I mean, because we've spoken

00:51:45.050 --> 00:51:46.869
quite a lot about who's favourites this year

00:51:46.869 --> 00:51:49.150
and Leicester winning the Premier League, which

00:51:49.150 --> 00:51:51.360
is astonishing. that that even happened. Which

00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:53.800
they're not going to do this year. No, on account

00:51:53.800 --> 00:51:54.920
of not being in the division. On account of not

00:51:54.920 --> 00:51:59.760
being in it. Then let me pose this question to

00:51:59.760 --> 00:52:03.159
you. If I asked you who are the best five teams

00:52:03.159 --> 00:52:06.800
to compete in the Prem, where would you put your

00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:09.519
money? Do I have to put them in order? I mean,

00:52:09.519 --> 00:52:12.000
if you can. I know who my number one is, but

00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:14.480
I'm biased. I know who your number one is too.

00:52:14.900 --> 00:52:17.099
I know who my number two is. I put Leicester

00:52:17.099 --> 00:52:20.639
at two. Do you mean favourite or best? Yeah,

00:52:20.920 --> 00:52:24.320
like I've definitely merged those two things

00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:27.980
so you can order it how you like. But I put Leicester

00:52:27.980 --> 00:52:29.139
number two. Because Leicester wouldn't be in

00:52:29.139 --> 00:52:31.539
my top five for best. No, they're not best but

00:52:31.539 --> 00:52:32.820
I just put it in there because it's an actual

00:52:32.820 --> 00:52:35.579
fucking miracle. Yeah. The best teams ever to

00:52:35.579 --> 00:52:39.199
I'd say the five best teams are probably City

00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:42.820
that 100 point season. They're incredible. Or

00:52:42.820 --> 00:52:45.969
even pick any of the other seasons around there

00:52:45.969 --> 00:52:48.750
yeah Liverpool 2020 team was incredible although

00:52:48.750 --> 00:52:50.469
to be honest Liverpool last season were also

00:52:50.469 --> 00:52:53.010
very good even if the points tally doesn't quite

00:52:53.010 --> 00:52:55.590
add up or even the Liverpool team that didn't

00:52:55.590 --> 00:52:58.789
win the league the year before their 2019 yeah

00:52:58.789 --> 00:53:01.570
Arsenal obviously the unbeaten team the Invincibles

00:53:01.570 --> 00:53:06.969
I would say Manchester United 2008 team is possibly

00:53:06.969 --> 00:53:09.150
the best all -round team I've seen in the Premier

00:53:09.150 --> 00:53:12.130
League oh really nice I had a United team that

00:53:12.130 --> 00:53:15.300
was Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, ridiculously good

00:53:15.300 --> 00:53:17.380
on the counter -attack. That lot. That was Rooney,

00:53:17.480 --> 00:53:19.179
peak Rooney, and obviously Ronaldo just before

00:53:19.179 --> 00:53:21.960
he went to Real Madrid. And Vidic, centre -back,

00:53:22.139 --> 00:53:26.940
and yeah, crazy good team. I ordered it like

00:53:26.940 --> 00:53:28.739
this, because we actually ended up for pretty

00:53:28.739 --> 00:53:31.719
much the same. So I had Liverpool 19 -20 in fifth.

00:53:32.059 --> 00:53:34.639
Most wins, earliest victory ever. Seven games

00:53:34.639 --> 00:53:37.280
before the end of the season. Easy. I agree with

00:53:37.280 --> 00:53:39.739
you completely. You were sensational that year.

00:53:39.900 --> 00:53:44.800
And then I had put City... from 2020 to 2024

00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:47.780
in there over the 100 points team the four in

00:53:47.780 --> 00:53:50.800
a row team basically because you got you got

00:53:50.800 --> 00:53:53.500
92 and 97 points in that window and came second

00:53:53.500 --> 00:53:56.539
twice and city won four in a row which hasn't

00:53:56.539 --> 00:53:59.940
been done which is insane i mean there's there's

00:53:59.940 --> 00:54:02.239
i know it means nothing and i know this is very

00:54:02.239 --> 00:54:04.159
much the kind of thing that people get the piss

00:54:04.159 --> 00:54:06.000
taken out them on the internet for but there's

00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:10.079
a 38 match period over the 2019 and 2020 season

00:54:10.489 --> 00:54:12.530
that Liverpool didn't lose a game. Yeah. And

00:54:12.530 --> 00:54:15.449
I think they dropped two points. I think they'd

00:54:15.449 --> 00:54:17.710
drawn one game in that period or something. I

00:54:17.710 --> 00:54:20.630
know that means nothing, but it's insane how

00:54:20.630 --> 00:54:22.630
good that Liverpool team was. And the fact they

00:54:22.630 --> 00:54:26.550
didn't win the league in 2018 -2019 on 97 points

00:54:26.550 --> 00:54:30.469
is just ridiculous. When, as we mentioned, Leicester

00:54:30.469 --> 00:54:33.329
won it on 81 and deserved to, but there you go.

00:54:33.530 --> 00:54:35.630
Well, yeah. I mean, obviously, you play within

00:54:35.630 --> 00:54:37.750
the rules of the game. Everyone appreciates that,

00:54:37.829 --> 00:54:40.719
but like... I do think that when people over...

00:54:40.719 --> 00:54:42.719
Interesting way of putting it, what are you talking

00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:45.659
about, Man City? No, sure. What I mean is you

00:54:45.659 --> 00:54:47.840
play a 38 -game season and you know that's the

00:54:47.840 --> 00:54:51.019
parameters for determining the victor. But I

00:54:51.019 --> 00:54:52.820
do think that people that overlook those sorts

00:54:52.820 --> 00:54:54.300
of things are just short -sighted and idiots

00:54:54.300 --> 00:54:57.539
because football ultimately is about, you know,

00:54:57.559 --> 00:55:00.780
having, like, enjoying... the game as a supporter

00:55:00.780 --> 00:55:03.659
that is as a player and as a manager and a coach

00:55:03.659 --> 00:55:05.500
it's obviously about winning because you're professionals

00:55:05.500 --> 00:55:08.239
but like it does crack me up when supporters

00:55:08.239 --> 00:55:10.000
like have a go at other supporters like they

00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:12.960
have in some way contributed to or are partly

00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:16.059
responsible in any kind of meaningful sense for

00:55:16.059 --> 00:55:19.119
the success of like their team and so like when

00:55:19.119 --> 00:55:21.179
people take joy from the fact that their team

00:55:21.179 --> 00:55:23.199
is good but isn't winning stuff and people like

00:55:23.199 --> 00:55:26.599
take the piss out of that i think that is just

00:55:26.599 --> 00:55:30.280
stupid and pathetic really like let people enjoy

00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:33.619
it generally like you can be proud of your team's

00:55:33.619 --> 00:55:35.159
achievements even though they weren't the winners

00:55:35.159 --> 00:55:37.659
like there's nothing wrong with that but yeah

00:55:37.659 --> 00:55:40.199
obviously if people are like putting on a pedestal

00:55:40.199 --> 00:55:42.139
that suggests that it's equivalent to a league

00:55:42.139 --> 00:55:44.940
title then you know maybe you can maybe you can

00:55:44.940 --> 00:55:47.239
take them down a peg or two in those circumstances

00:55:47.239 --> 00:55:51.039
got one league title out of it It's all relative,

00:55:51.159 --> 00:55:54.059
isn't it? That's the point. There are stupid

00:55:54.059 --> 00:55:57.440
things you can say on the internet. Only one

00:55:57.440 --> 00:55:59.679
team can win every single year. And if one of

00:55:59.679 --> 00:56:03.260
those teams is backed by an oil state and has

00:56:03.260 --> 00:56:06.039
a bottomless pit of money and can therefore hire

00:56:06.039 --> 00:56:10.739
the best manager in the world and basically go

00:56:10.739 --> 00:56:12.199
out and purchase all the best players in the

00:56:12.199 --> 00:56:15.539
world and a disproportionate number of them compared

00:56:15.539 --> 00:56:17.639
to their rivals so they can stack the bench as

00:56:17.639 --> 00:56:21.289
well. Why are you taking the piss out of the

00:56:21.289 --> 00:56:24.510
sides that compete with that? It doesn't make

00:56:24.510 --> 00:56:27.489
sense to me. But, you know, each to their own.

00:56:27.530 --> 00:56:31.070
I guess it's Schadenfreude, isn't it? Yeah. But

00:56:31.070 --> 00:56:34.130
yes, I have number one is the boys, mate. Invincibles.

00:56:34.510 --> 00:56:37.090
I know. Fucking Invincibles. Just because, like,

00:56:37.090 --> 00:56:39.789
come on. You can't win a season without losing

00:56:39.789 --> 00:56:41.409
a game and people say that you weren't the best

00:56:41.409 --> 00:56:43.769
that there's ever been. That's stupid. Don't

00:56:43.769 --> 00:56:46.260
read what I'm saying as... criticizing Arsenal

00:56:46.260 --> 00:56:48.000
in any way when I say I don't I think there were

00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:49.800
a couple of teams in Premier League history who

00:56:49.800 --> 00:56:51.860
were better than Arsenal all round but none of

00:56:51.860 --> 00:56:54.420
them went the whole season unbeaten and none

00:56:54.420 --> 00:56:56.079
of them and this is a really important point

00:56:56.079 --> 00:56:58.599
I never turned on match of the day excited to

00:56:58.599 --> 00:57:00.860
watch any of those other teams as much as I was

00:57:00.860 --> 00:57:04.320
Arsenal at that time. Arsenal were just so good

00:57:04.320 --> 00:57:07.940
to watch from like 2000 to 2005 kind of period

00:57:07.940 --> 00:57:10.860
Thierry Henry particularly obviously the player

00:57:10.860 --> 00:57:13.380
I love the most in Premier League history probably.

00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:16.420
brilliant football brilliant to watch and every

00:57:16.420 --> 00:57:18.480
it feels like i know this is probably compact

00:57:18.480 --> 00:57:21.239
compacted memories probably me compacting the

00:57:21.239 --> 00:57:23.219
memories of dozens and dozens of times i watched

00:57:23.219 --> 00:57:24.900
the match today but it felt like something happened

00:57:24.900 --> 00:57:27.400
every week because of him and because of that

00:57:27.400 --> 00:57:30.219
team yeah brilliant i actually think like i mean

00:57:30.219 --> 00:57:31.980
i was going to talk i actually want to talk about

00:57:31.980 --> 00:57:34.059
some of the players he probably probably taking

00:57:34.059 --> 00:57:36.940
us in that direction quite nicely but The reason

00:57:36.940 --> 00:57:38.739
I put Arsenal number one as well is I agree with

00:57:38.739 --> 00:57:40.679
you. Some of the Mourinho -Chelsea teams and

00:57:40.679 --> 00:57:43.300
some of the Ferguson teams and the City teams

00:57:43.300 --> 00:57:46.260
recently, you can make a case that if they played

00:57:46.260 --> 00:57:47.960
each other, if there was a world in which they

00:57:47.960 --> 00:57:50.719
could play each other, maybe Arsenal don't win.

00:57:50.800 --> 00:57:52.639
I don't know. But the one thing I would say about

00:57:52.639 --> 00:57:54.760
that Invincibles team is they underachieved.

00:57:56.799 --> 00:57:59.340
That Invincibles team should have won the treble.

00:57:59.559 --> 00:58:02.179
They lost to Chelsea in the quarterfinals of

00:58:02.179 --> 00:58:04.059
the Champions League. And that was the year that

00:58:04.059 --> 00:58:06.440
Porto won it with the Mourinho's title when they

00:58:06.440 --> 00:58:08.159
beat Monaco in the final. Arsenal would have

00:58:08.159 --> 00:58:09.800
played Monaco in the semis because that's who

00:58:09.800 --> 00:58:12.599
Chelsea got knocked out by. And they lost to

00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:15.099
United in the semifinals of the FA Cup that year,

00:58:15.139 --> 00:58:17.760
1 -0, in one of the most one -sided defeats of

00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:19.820
all time. And I know United fans will quite rightly

00:58:19.820 --> 00:58:21.119
say, yeah, but do you remember when you won the

00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:24.039
FA Cup in 2005 and you were absolutely dogshit

00:58:24.039 --> 00:58:25.599
and we got dicked and you beat us on penalties?

00:58:25.739 --> 00:58:28.420
and you're absolutely right but they then United

00:58:28.420 --> 00:58:31.019
then beat Millwall in the FA Cup final the year

00:58:31.019 --> 00:58:34.199
that Arsenal went invincible so you know get

00:58:34.199 --> 00:58:36.420
results in those two games you drew too many

00:58:36.420 --> 00:58:38.559
games as well I know it's a stupid thing to say

00:58:38.559 --> 00:58:40.599
when you went the season unbeaten yeah drew 12

00:58:40.599 --> 00:58:41.980
games you could have put away a few more teams

00:58:41.980 --> 00:58:44.360
yeah yeah yeah anyway it doesn't matter all that

00:58:44.360 --> 00:58:46.599
really matters is you won the title a secondary

00:58:46.599 --> 00:58:48.760
factor to that is you won invincible which no

00:58:48.760 --> 00:58:51.190
one has done since And only one team, as we mentioned

00:58:51.190 --> 00:58:52.929
last week, has done before. Yeah, that's not

00:58:52.929 --> 00:58:54.429
serious. That was a long time ago. That's not

00:58:54.429 --> 00:58:59.090
serious. 115 years earlier. Yeah, yeah. Preston

00:58:59.090 --> 00:59:01.730
North End. Players though, mate, you spoke about

00:59:01.730 --> 00:59:06.750
the king. I mean, for me, can I, like, if anybody

00:59:06.750 --> 00:59:08.969
who listens, anyone happens across this podcast

00:59:08.969 --> 00:59:11.949
and listens to it, who is, I don't know, 20 years

00:59:11.949 --> 00:59:16.369
old, or maybe under 30 even, like, you don't

00:59:16.369 --> 00:59:19.659
understand. You're going to say things like Ronaldo.

00:59:20.159 --> 00:59:24.019
You might even say, you know, Haaland or KDB.

00:59:24.739 --> 00:59:28.360
You're wrong, I'm afraid. You just weren't there.

00:59:29.059 --> 00:59:33.079
Thierry Henry is easily the best player to have

00:59:33.079 --> 00:59:36.079
ever played in the Premier League. Thierry Henry

00:59:36.079 --> 00:59:38.119
is easily the best player to have ever played

00:59:38.119 --> 00:59:41.869
in the Premier League. I'm just agreeing with

00:59:41.869 --> 00:59:44.789
you. Yeah. I'm not talking about easily, but

00:59:44.789 --> 00:59:47.489
yes. Do you want me to reel off some numbers

00:59:47.489 --> 00:59:52.489
here? It's insane. Could I stop you if I wanted

00:59:52.489 --> 00:59:56.989
to? He's obviously in the top 10 all -time goal

00:59:56.989 --> 00:59:59.309
scorers in Prem. But of those top 10, he's got

00:59:59.309 --> 01:00:02.250
the highest goals to game ratio of all time.

01:00:02.349 --> 01:00:05.150
In terms of penalties, he's second only to Letizia

01:00:05.150 --> 01:00:07.150
in terms of conversions. He missed two in the

01:00:07.150 --> 01:00:09.230
Premier League. He's also their third highest.

01:00:09.789 --> 01:00:12.630
on free kicks with the fifth best ratio. And

01:00:12.630 --> 01:00:14.250
the reason that you probably think, oh, you know,

01:00:14.269 --> 01:00:15.889
you're just fucking drilling into the detail.

01:00:15.929 --> 01:00:17.150
What does that mean? What does that mean? It

01:00:17.150 --> 01:00:19.230
means it does it all, Jack. That's what I'm trying

01:00:19.230 --> 01:00:22.010
to say here. Bangs them in an open play, mugs

01:00:22.010 --> 01:00:25.769
people off, takes a pen, hits a free kick, like

01:00:25.769 --> 01:00:28.550
assists. Made Jamie Carragher look like an idiot

01:00:28.550 --> 01:00:31.800
on a few occasions. God, he was... ridiculous

01:00:31.800 --> 01:00:34.679
he was playing in an era where it was like Ferdinand

01:00:34.679 --> 01:00:38.320
John Terry like you say Carragher like these

01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:41.940
kind of guys playing at centre back and he scored

01:00:41.940 --> 01:00:44.900
at least 20 goals five years in a row most consecutive

01:00:44.900 --> 01:00:47.500
seasons scoring at least 20 goals five in a row

01:00:47.500 --> 01:00:49.880
most Premier League assists in a season joint

01:00:49.880 --> 01:00:54.079
with KDB on 20 only player to score both 20 goals

01:00:54.079 --> 01:00:58.099
and get 20 assists in a season like two times

01:00:58.619 --> 01:01:00.679
Player of the Season award, joint most. Four

01:01:00.679 --> 01:01:03.659
-time Golden Boot winner, joint most. Two Prems,

01:01:03.659 --> 01:01:06.179
three FA Cups, a double. Took Arsenal to their

01:01:06.179 --> 01:01:08.920
only two European, sorry, their only Champions

01:01:08.920 --> 01:01:11.519
League final and a UEFA Cup final. All -time

01:01:11.519 --> 01:01:13.739
top goal scorer, a Ballon d 'Or runner -up in

01:01:13.739 --> 01:01:17.239
2003, which is a travesty, by the way, an actual

01:01:17.239 --> 01:01:20.239
travesty. Was that Nedved? Yeah, I think it was,

01:01:20.400 --> 01:01:22.820
yeah. Which, you know. It was a good player,

01:01:22.900 --> 01:01:24.599
don't get me wrong. Yeah, we dumped in the quarters.

01:01:25.239 --> 01:01:28.079
a couple of years later by the king and sesk

01:01:28.079 --> 01:01:31.960
don't want to hear it um i i think this is all

01:01:31.960 --> 01:01:33.500
i think this is all good and i think this is

01:01:33.500 --> 01:01:34.719
all important that you're talking about these

01:01:34.719 --> 01:01:37.360
stats i don't think any of it matters compared

01:01:37.360 --> 01:01:41.119
to actually watch him play yeah like football

01:01:41.119 --> 01:01:43.760
is the beautiful game and it's a beautiful game

01:01:43.760 --> 01:01:45.559
because of people like thierry henry there's

01:01:45.559 --> 01:01:48.559
been no one since and in my eyes no one before

01:01:48.559 --> 01:01:50.880
certainly in england in english football you

01:01:50.880 --> 01:01:53.989
can argue for zinedine zidane in that context

01:01:53.989 --> 01:01:56.329
around the same time and bear in mind they were

01:01:56.329 --> 01:01:58.250
international teammates and they won the World

01:01:58.250 --> 01:02:01.349
Cup together albeit that was at the start of

01:02:01.349 --> 01:02:03.190
Henry's career and he became a more important

01:02:03.190 --> 01:02:06.289
figure for France later but the way he played

01:02:06.289 --> 01:02:10.769
the game the goals he was scoring and the versatility

01:02:10.769 --> 01:02:13.909
he had in terms of scoring those goals he scored

01:02:13.909 --> 01:02:16.469
three kicks he scored pile drivers from far out

01:02:16.469 --> 01:02:19.570
and then there's a classic slipped in down the

01:02:19.570 --> 01:02:21.469
left hand side open up your body and curl it

01:02:21.469 --> 01:02:24.440
into the far corner which is just a thing of

01:02:24.440 --> 01:02:27.760
absolute beauty looking back. He could just do

01:02:27.760 --> 01:02:31.659
it all. The way he did it with this Gallic swagger

01:02:31.659 --> 01:02:34.579
and just such control over what he was doing,

01:02:34.639 --> 01:02:37.340
just such clear understanding that he was good

01:02:37.340 --> 01:02:39.260
and this is how he's going to express himself.

01:02:39.320 --> 01:02:41.860
He didn't go out and chat. He didn't say, oh,

01:02:41.880 --> 01:02:43.420
I'm the best and talk himself up that way. He

01:02:43.420 --> 01:02:45.320
just showed it on the pitch and you could just

01:02:45.320 --> 01:02:47.920
tell he was just a player with such a ludicrous

01:02:47.920 --> 01:02:49.360
amount of self -confidence. I know this isn't

01:02:49.360 --> 01:02:51.489
a Premier League highlight, but... That time

01:02:51.489 --> 01:02:53.090
he takes it to the corner against Real Madrid.

01:02:53.449 --> 01:02:56.889
I've never seen a clip where a player is so in

01:02:56.889 --> 01:02:59.389
control of the situation. Who does he hop over?

01:02:59.670 --> 01:03:01.869
Is it Ramos who tries to cut him in half and

01:03:01.869 --> 01:03:04.610
he just literally just hops over him? Would it

01:03:04.610 --> 01:03:07.050
be Ramos? Bloody hell, Ramos was playing a while

01:03:07.050 --> 01:03:09.130
ago. It was Ramos, but whoever it was. I think

01:03:09.130 --> 01:03:10.730
it's Ramos. Whoever it was, it doesn't matter.

01:03:10.889 --> 01:03:12.690
It might have been a baby Ramos. I might be getting

01:03:12.690 --> 01:03:15.690
ahead of myself, but in that game as well, he

01:03:15.690 --> 01:03:18.730
scores a ridiculous goal. Like where he just

01:03:18.730 --> 01:03:22.809
bounces off Fat Ronaldo and then gasses Gooty,

01:03:22.949 --> 01:03:25.210
goes around. Probably literally bounces off,

01:03:25.230 --> 01:03:28.150
yeah. Yeah, yeah, gasses Gooty, goes around centre

01:03:28.150 --> 01:03:30.949
half, can't remember who it is, and smashes it

01:03:30.949 --> 01:03:32.469
across his body, left footed into the bottom

01:03:32.469 --> 01:03:35.969
corner, 1 -0 at the bow. Thanks. If it was 2005,

01:03:36.170 --> 01:03:37.949
2006, it might have been Ramos actually because

01:03:37.949 --> 01:03:39.750
they got him in 2005. Bloody hell, he's been

01:03:39.750 --> 01:03:42.730
playing a long time. Yeah. Still going. Still

01:03:42.730 --> 01:03:46.070
going. Yeah, the king, mate. The king. Someone

01:03:46.070 --> 01:03:48.269
asked me the other day at work, they asked me

01:03:48.269 --> 01:03:49.909
who the best player was in Premier League history,

01:03:50.050 --> 01:03:53.750
and they were more senior than I, and they proceeded

01:03:53.750 --> 01:03:56.510
to try and suggest something, you know, others,

01:03:56.630 --> 01:03:59.449
and I just said, I'm sorry. Who were they suggesting?

01:03:59.909 --> 01:04:02.690
You know, the usual suspects, but I just said,

01:04:02.829 --> 01:04:04.750
Thierry Henry is the best player to ever play

01:04:04.750 --> 01:04:07.570
in the Premier League, and I won't hear anything

01:04:07.570 --> 01:04:12.070
else, I'm afraid. It's the least surprising thing

01:04:12.070 --> 01:04:14.250
ever, because I know you, and anyone who's listened

01:04:14.250 --> 01:04:15.960
to this. podcasts for more than five minutes

01:04:15.960 --> 01:04:18.179
will also not be surprised by this but i do love

01:04:18.179 --> 01:04:20.159
how you introduce this as let's discuss the best

01:04:20.159 --> 01:04:22.059
players in premier league history and we've just

01:04:22.059 --> 01:04:23.760
spent the last like 10 minutes talking about

01:04:23.760 --> 01:04:28.760
just thierry henry um yeah i propose who else

01:04:28.760 --> 01:04:31.639
i propose between us we assemble a best team

01:04:31.639 --> 01:04:34.260
ever okay the premier league all right i think

01:04:34.260 --> 01:04:36.360
we can do that yeah i think we can do that where

01:04:36.360 --> 01:04:38.559
are we going back to front oh the problem the

01:04:38.559 --> 01:04:40.159
problem is here you're going to set me off as

01:04:40.159 --> 01:04:42.159
well because we're going to go goalkeeper and

01:04:42.159 --> 01:04:46.079
i'm going to be like hmm tell me ben why is there

01:04:46.079 --> 01:04:47.820
a debate who the best goalkeeper in the premier

01:04:47.820 --> 01:04:50.639
league is why is that a thing why is everyone

01:04:50.639 --> 01:04:52.400
blind to the fact that the best goalkeeper in

01:04:52.400 --> 01:04:54.159
the premier league since he joined seven years

01:04:54.159 --> 01:04:56.559
ago has been absolutely clear and obvious to

01:04:56.559 --> 01:04:58.860
us you know i'm oh allison a guy who likes to

01:04:58.860 --> 01:05:02.360
be objective i like to check my bias and leave

01:05:02.360 --> 01:05:04.840
it at the door but it's allison it's it's been

01:05:04.840 --> 01:05:07.260
allison it always is allison and he's so far

01:05:07.260 --> 01:05:09.619
above his peers that i don't understand why this

01:05:09.619 --> 01:05:11.559
is a question don't be wrong there's other good

01:05:11.559 --> 01:05:13.880
keepers and there's keepers who have had fantastic

01:05:13.880 --> 01:05:16.119
seasons in that time. Obviously, De Gea was brilliant

01:05:16.119 --> 01:05:18.639
for a while and then terrible for a while. Raya's

01:05:18.639 --> 01:05:20.519
been good recently. Edwin van der Sar. Edison

01:05:20.519 --> 01:05:22.739
was pretty good throughout. Van der Sar further

01:05:22.739 --> 01:05:24.519
back. Oh, going further back beyond that. Just

01:05:24.519 --> 01:05:26.079
like the last seven years. Schmeichel and Cech.

01:05:26.760 --> 01:05:28.880
Schmeichel and Cech. Schmeichel and Cech. For

01:05:28.880 --> 01:05:31.440
the entire debate, I think it's a three -horse

01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:34.900
race. I think it's Schmeichel, Cech and Alisson.

01:05:35.039 --> 01:05:37.199
Yeah. I would narrow it down to Schmeichel and

01:05:37.199 --> 01:05:38.860
Alisson because of their goal -scoring feats.

01:05:39.500 --> 01:05:41.320
Because Percek never scored, which, you know,

01:05:41.340 --> 01:05:43.320
puts them out of the running. In this case, I

01:05:43.320 --> 01:05:46.320
can flip a coin. Piers Schmeichel was unbelievably

01:05:46.320 --> 01:05:49.119
good in a one -on -one situation, making himself

01:05:49.119 --> 01:05:51.460
better. Alisson's a more modern keeper, though.

01:05:51.559 --> 01:05:53.940
He's more modern. Alisson, in one -on -one situations,

01:05:54.219 --> 01:05:55.860
is the best keeper I've ever seen in my life.

01:05:56.039 --> 01:05:58.199
And his shot stopping's good. His kicking and

01:05:58.199 --> 01:06:00.659
distribution is good. He's such a leader in that

01:06:00.659 --> 01:06:03.059
team. He allows Liverpool to play the way they

01:06:03.059 --> 01:06:05.019
do because they can play over high line because

01:06:05.019 --> 01:06:07.159
they have absolute faith in him, either coming

01:06:07.159 --> 01:06:09.059
off his line or in a one -on -one situation.

01:06:09.659 --> 01:06:11.949
Liverpool were very lucky. that Kavine Kelleher

01:06:11.949 --> 01:06:14.210
is or has been as good as he has when Alisson's

01:06:14.210 --> 01:06:17.369
been injured but the team changes when he's in

01:06:17.369 --> 01:06:21.110
the team yeah yeah he is just he has so much

01:06:21.110 --> 01:06:23.769
aura about him I'm dreading the day he leaves

01:06:23.769 --> 01:06:26.989
these great Liverpool teams the past seven or

01:06:26.989 --> 01:06:29.369
eight years built on him and Van Dijk to me have

01:06:29.369 --> 01:06:31.429
had three world -class players three world -class

01:06:31.429 --> 01:06:33.630
players in that team those two obviously and

01:06:33.630 --> 01:06:38.179
Mo Salah yeah yeah I agree. Okay, Alisson in

01:06:38.179 --> 01:06:41.619
goal. Done. Left back. It's easy. I'd be happy

01:06:41.619 --> 01:06:43.360
with Schmeichel. I should say that. He was very

01:06:43.360 --> 01:06:45.199
good too. Alisson in goal. Schmeichel on the

01:06:45.199 --> 01:06:48.719
bench. Left back. Ashley Cole, obviously. Yes,

01:06:48.719 --> 01:06:51.159
it is Ashley Cole. Fuck's sake. Fucking cashly.

01:06:51.320 --> 01:06:53.719
Can I just say... He's the best defensive left

01:06:53.719 --> 01:06:55.860
back I've ever seen in my life. He's absurdly

01:06:55.860 --> 01:06:57.659
good. Can I just say, though, the reason he's

01:06:57.659 --> 01:07:01.460
a cunt is... I mean, that's the first time we've

01:07:01.460 --> 01:07:03.039
used that word on this show. I'm not sure we

01:07:03.039 --> 01:07:06.900
have to give a special explicit tag now. But

01:07:06.900 --> 01:07:08.659
yes, it had to come with Arsenal, that's fair.

01:07:09.679 --> 01:07:13.500
It's because I don't actually think his move

01:07:13.500 --> 01:07:17.420
objectively to Chelsea was that successful. He

01:07:17.420 --> 01:07:21.400
won a lot of FA Cups. He won two titles at Arsenal.

01:07:21.500 --> 01:07:24.199
He won one at Chelsea. He won three FA Cups at

01:07:24.199 --> 01:07:27.639
Arsenal from four finals. And then he won four

01:07:27.639 --> 01:07:29.659
FA Cups at Chelsea. So it's effectively the same

01:07:29.659 --> 01:07:32.489
number of finals. And the only, the kicker is,

01:07:32.530 --> 01:07:34.190
and maybe this justifies it for him, is that

01:07:34.190 --> 01:07:36.710
he won the Champions League at Chelsea. Eventually,

01:07:37.010 --> 01:07:38.769
yeah. But he also made the Champions League final

01:07:38.769 --> 01:07:42.610
at Arsenal. And, you know, like, he just fucking

01:07:42.610 --> 01:07:45.849
mugged us off, mate, for money. Like, he's an

01:07:45.849 --> 01:07:47.610
invincible. He could have been a legend. And

01:07:47.610 --> 01:07:48.789
it's like, what did you do that for? You just

01:07:48.789 --> 01:07:50.210
went and played Chelsea for more money and won

01:07:50.210 --> 01:07:52.090
the same stuff that you'd already won. Great.

01:07:53.170 --> 01:07:55.309
It's been nearly 20 years, mate. Good for you.

01:07:55.570 --> 01:08:00.650
Good for you, mate. I hope you're happy. Shall

01:08:00.650 --> 01:08:04.409
we move on? Yeah, right back. Go on. The thing

01:08:04.409 --> 01:08:06.510
about right back is, I think we're only putting

01:08:06.510 --> 01:08:08.070
a right back in this team because we have to

01:08:08.070 --> 01:08:09.730
put a right back in this team. I don't think

01:08:09.730 --> 01:08:11.070
there's a right back in Premier League history

01:08:11.070 --> 01:08:13.289
who's in the best 20 players in the league. Obviously,

01:08:13.349 --> 01:08:16.949
Gary Neville, Kyle Walker, Trent. We could play

01:08:16.949 --> 01:08:20.149
wingbacks, but if we did, we'd be sacrificing

01:08:20.149 --> 01:08:21.810
him in the midfield because we'd have to pick

01:08:21.810 --> 01:08:23.630
an extra centre -half. I wouldn't put Cole in

01:08:23.630 --> 01:08:27.109
as a wingback anyway. Yeah. He's not good enough

01:08:27.109 --> 01:08:30.220
attacking. Is it Gary Neville? It probably is,

01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:31.939
isn't it? If you're going to pick, it's either

01:08:31.939 --> 01:08:33.640
him or Kyle Walker. I mean, Trent's obviously

01:08:33.640 --> 01:08:35.899
technically the best right back in Premier League

01:08:35.899 --> 01:08:38.859
history, but Andy won a couple of titles and

01:08:38.859 --> 01:08:41.960
I hope I'm checking my bias at the door now he's

01:08:41.960 --> 01:08:45.000
no longer a Liverpool player. But Kyle Walker

01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:50.220
or Gary Neville or Ivanovic, maybe? I don't know.

01:08:50.640 --> 01:08:52.779
Probably a bit too much for Paul. I think Gary

01:08:52.779 --> 01:08:53.800
Neville. I think it's probably Gary Neville.

01:08:53.800 --> 01:08:55.859
I'm happy with that. Can we have Gary Neville

01:08:55.859 --> 01:08:59.170
in to represent? the class of 92 a little bit

01:08:59.170 --> 01:09:02.210
so we don't have to then put skulls in potentially

01:09:02.210 --> 01:09:04.970
although i like skulls yeah but they're not gonna

01:09:04.970 --> 01:09:06.649
they're not gonna they're not gonna make it though

01:09:06.649 --> 01:09:09.109
are they probably not no anyway like they're

01:09:09.109 --> 01:09:10.710
all really good and everyone loves to talk about

01:09:10.710 --> 01:09:12.189
them but then they're not getting in this team

01:09:12.189 --> 01:09:15.130
there's way better players center halves center

01:09:15.130 --> 01:09:18.470
backs yeah i mean where do you begin here john

01:09:18.470 --> 01:09:22.189
terry's got to go in unfortunately i think john

01:09:22.189 --> 01:09:25.050
terry if you put john terry alongside someone

01:09:25.050 --> 01:09:27.699
who's got a bit of pace Not that John Terry was

01:09:27.699 --> 01:09:29.739
slow, but relatively speaking, compared to a

01:09:29.739 --> 01:09:32.260
Rio Ferdinand or a Sol Campbell or a Virgil van

01:09:32.260 --> 01:09:35.399
Dijk, he obviously was lacking a bit, but he's

01:09:35.399 --> 01:09:38.279
just a leader and he's unbeatable in the air.

01:09:38.659 --> 01:09:42.159
He's made five Prem titles, five FA Cups, three

01:09:42.159 --> 01:09:44.220
League Cups, a Champions League, Europa League,

01:09:44.439 --> 01:09:48.699
770 appearances in all comps and captain, obviously.

01:09:48.920 --> 01:09:51.720
The thing though is that in the... A little asterisk

01:09:51.720 --> 01:09:53.760
on some of those... champions leagues and stuff

01:09:53.760 --> 01:09:56.579
but yeah he wasn't playing yeah sure but like

01:09:56.579 --> 01:09:58.119
you know you say that about roy keen and i think

01:09:58.119 --> 01:10:00.060
that would be unfair that would be very unfair

01:10:00.060 --> 01:10:01.899
on roy keen and we're probably about to talk

01:10:01.899 --> 01:10:05.020
about roy keen so yeah yeah yeah so like i think

01:10:05.020 --> 01:10:09.260
the kicker for terry though is he he was a mainstay

01:10:09.260 --> 01:10:12.260
in the oligarch era he survived the super wealth

01:10:12.260 --> 01:10:16.039
and if he wasn't amazing chelsea would have just

01:10:16.039 --> 01:10:19.909
bought someone better yeah so so like I hate

01:10:19.909 --> 01:10:22.369
him, but I think he has to go in. I don't disagree.

01:10:22.510 --> 01:10:25.229
And I think I'd have him or Vidic. Sort of that

01:10:25.229 --> 01:10:27.109
sort of leader. Terry though. Terry's got the

01:10:27.109 --> 01:10:29.529
longevity. Big, strong centre -back type. I'd

01:10:29.529 --> 01:10:36.449
have Terry. For the other one. Yeah. Ferdinand.

01:10:36.449 --> 01:10:40.409
Sol. Van. Van Dijk. Van Dijk. Probably one of

01:10:40.409 --> 01:10:43.329
those three. Yeah. Who do you fancy? Kompany.

01:10:43.609 --> 01:10:47.189
Vincent. That's a shout. He was really good.

01:10:47.409 --> 01:10:49.529
I might consider him more for the, I mean, I

01:10:49.529 --> 01:10:51.210
know we've sort of standardised him for the leader,

01:10:51.270 --> 01:10:53.949
big boy role, and he wasn't slow, obviously.

01:10:54.090 --> 01:10:57.909
No. But I think maybe Rio is the best out of

01:10:57.909 --> 01:11:00.289
them. Probably those two, actually. I mean, they

01:11:00.289 --> 01:11:01.930
were unreal, weren't they, together as well.

01:11:02.270 --> 01:11:05.609
And again, it sucks that we're picking these

01:11:05.609 --> 01:11:07.949
two. And we've got Gary Neville at right back

01:11:07.949 --> 01:11:11.609
and we've got Ashley Cole at left back. And England

01:11:11.609 --> 01:11:14.350
never bloody won anything in this time. Disgrace.

01:11:14.350 --> 01:11:17.409
Incredible players. 4 -3 -3, defensive midfielder?

01:11:17.710 --> 01:11:21.310
Yes. So basically 5 -1, 3 -3. Doesn't matter.

01:11:21.590 --> 01:11:23.430
Whichever you want to call it, yeah. Yeah, yeah,

01:11:23.430 --> 01:11:27.449
yeah. Defensive mid. 1 -3 probably, I would say.

01:11:27.569 --> 01:11:31.810
It's either Roy Keane or N 'Golo Kante or Rodri.

01:11:32.220 --> 01:11:34.560
It's not Rodri. Can't have that. Not yet. He's

01:11:34.560 --> 01:11:38.039
won four titles. Yeah, yeah. In five years. But

01:11:38.039 --> 01:11:40.880
like, that's not the same. Well, technically

01:11:40.880 --> 01:11:43.699
he was injured for one of them. Yeah. Oh no,

01:11:43.739 --> 01:11:44.859
so he wasn't injured for one of them. He was

01:11:44.859 --> 01:11:46.539
injured for the season that was shit this year.

01:11:46.659 --> 01:11:48.979
So it's four titles in six years. Yeah. He's

01:11:48.979 --> 01:11:50.720
unreal, Rodri. Don't get me wrong. But like,

01:11:50.859 --> 01:11:53.539
the difference is, can I make a case against

01:11:53.539 --> 01:11:55.439
Rodri? Not because I don't think he's a wonderful

01:11:55.439 --> 01:11:59.029
player, but Roy Keane... Was the captain of his

01:11:59.029 --> 01:12:01.850
side. He won seven prems. It was a gun United

01:12:01.850 --> 01:12:05.970
team under Ferguson. Four FA Cups, 480 appearances,

01:12:06.369 --> 01:12:09.689
a treble, which I know Rodri's got, right? But,

01:12:09.729 --> 01:12:13.149
like, he did that in a United side. He was bought

01:12:13.149 --> 01:12:15.750
from Forrest, and he did that in a United side

01:12:15.750 --> 01:12:17.090
that was, like, you know, had won the league

01:12:17.090 --> 01:12:18.949
or what have you once, I think, before he joined.

01:12:19.289 --> 01:12:22.630
But, like, were not dominant until he came in

01:12:22.630 --> 01:12:24.989
and formed a big part of that unit and led it.

01:12:25.260 --> 01:12:27.300
And N 'Golo Kante did it with Leicester and then

01:12:27.300 --> 01:12:29.760
went to Chelsea and did it again. And I feel

01:12:29.760 --> 01:12:32.420
like Rodri's just surrounded by superstars, which

01:12:32.420 --> 01:12:34.439
obviously complement his world -class talent.

01:12:34.939 --> 01:12:37.220
But I just think it's different. It's not as

01:12:37.220 --> 01:12:39.960
good. Yeah, I think, again, it comes down to

01:12:39.960 --> 01:12:41.840
who do you think was the better player versus

01:12:41.840 --> 01:12:44.420
who do you think was the most impactful on the

01:12:44.420 --> 01:12:46.199
Premier League history as a whole. The latter

01:12:46.199 --> 01:12:48.180
is probably Roy Keane. The former is probably

01:12:48.180 --> 01:12:50.720
Kante. Kante is the best defensive midfielder

01:12:50.720 --> 01:12:53.880
in those two seasons. Yeah. He was so important.

01:12:53.939 --> 01:12:55.300
Neither of those teams would have won the title

01:12:55.300 --> 01:12:58.199
if he wasn't playing in midfield. I don't think.

01:12:58.619 --> 01:13:00.960
Yeah. I just don't think that you can not pick

01:13:00.960 --> 01:13:03.760
Roy Keane's leadership. No, I think it's Roy

01:13:03.760 --> 01:13:05.920
Keane. Yeah. Picking captain from this team is

01:13:05.920 --> 01:13:07.800
going to be very difficult. Two other midfielders?

01:13:08.119 --> 01:13:10.600
Two from four, I think. I've got one which I

01:13:10.600 --> 01:13:13.180
think just has to go in. Even though I've just

01:13:13.180 --> 01:13:15.760
made a case against... Kevin De Bruyne. Yes.

01:13:15.880 --> 01:13:18.899
De Bruyne goes in. I think. Yeah. He's unbelievable.

01:13:19.300 --> 01:13:21.840
With... Vieira, Gerrard or Lampard probably in

01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:23.520
the other one unless I'm forgetting anyone. Oh

01:13:23.520 --> 01:13:28.439
God, that's really hard. Again, checking my bias,

01:13:28.659 --> 01:13:31.199
I still think it's Steven Gerrard. I mean, he's

01:13:31.199 --> 01:13:33.380
the best player of the three. Gerrard's the best

01:13:33.380 --> 01:13:36.039
all -round player. Lampard's goal scoring was

01:13:36.039 --> 01:13:39.800
stupid. Yes. Yeah, Lampard's the best goal scoring

01:13:39.800 --> 01:13:42.020
midfielder in Premier League history in terms

01:13:42.020 --> 01:13:43.939
of getting himself into the box. Vieira and Keane

01:13:43.939 --> 01:13:46.699
would be formidable though. Vieira is class.

01:13:47.710 --> 01:13:49.449
If you're going for a double pivot, imagine that

01:13:49.449 --> 01:13:52.029
as a double pivot. I can pivot to a double pivot

01:13:52.029 --> 01:13:54.250
if you'd rather. No. Just get rid of Gerrard,

01:13:54.289 --> 01:13:55.949
stick to him as a double pivot. I think Gerrard

01:13:55.949 --> 01:13:58.510
because I think he's just a better all -round

01:13:58.510 --> 01:14:01.270
player. And the longevity. He played in the league

01:14:01.270 --> 01:14:03.949
for longer than Vieira. Lampard obviously pushes

01:14:03.949 --> 01:14:07.289
him close. I think... But we don't need Lampard's

01:14:07.289 --> 01:14:09.609
goals in this team because our front three is

01:14:09.609 --> 01:14:11.590
going to be disgusting. You don't, but then do

01:14:11.590 --> 01:14:13.250
you need a lot of Gerrard skills as well, you

01:14:13.250 --> 01:14:15.350
could argue. Do you need Gerrard's passing ability

01:14:15.350 --> 01:14:17.649
when you've got Kevin De Bruyne? next to him

01:14:17.649 --> 01:14:19.130
but then again you can never have too many good

01:14:19.130 --> 01:14:21.050
passes in your team no and also gerald's gonna

01:14:21.050 --> 01:14:23.090
he's gonna get around the place and he's dynamic

01:14:23.090 --> 01:14:26.470
as well and he's a goal threat he'll be the box

01:14:26.470 --> 01:14:29.829
to box kdb can float and keen's gonna just boot

01:14:29.829 --> 01:14:32.670
people in the air which is important yeah and

01:14:32.670 --> 01:14:33.989
distribute i don't want to i don't want this

01:14:33.989 --> 01:14:35.789
team's taking on the all -time la liga team then

01:14:35.789 --> 01:14:40.470
it's important you want to be booting them and

01:14:40.470 --> 01:14:42.789
also roy keen is like let's not be disparaging

01:14:42.789 --> 01:14:44.729
about the man's talent he was a very good footballer

01:14:44.729 --> 01:14:47.380
oh he's a brilliant footballer so Yeah, I think

01:14:47.380 --> 01:14:49.420
that's the three. I think that's the three, just

01:14:49.420 --> 01:14:51.520
on balance. Although people would, you know,

01:14:51.539 --> 01:14:54.260
understandably make cases for the other two names.

01:14:54.579 --> 01:14:57.300
Well, front three, go on then. On the right,

01:14:57.359 --> 01:15:01.359
Mo. On the left, Thierry. And up front, Alan

01:15:01.359 --> 01:15:02.979
Shearer, probably. Alan Shearer, yeah. You'd

01:15:02.979 --> 01:15:06.180
say is the top scorer, but equally, have we screwed

01:15:06.180 --> 01:15:08.520
over Wayne Rooney by not putting a 10 in? Yeah,

01:15:08.520 --> 01:15:09.939
Rooney's on the bench. Would he? That's fine.

01:15:10.460 --> 01:15:12.100
Rooney on the bench, yes. Yeah, that's no problem.

01:15:12.159 --> 01:15:13.180
That's fine. There's nothing wrong with that.

01:15:13.260 --> 01:15:14.859
Rooney and Lampard on the bench as well. Yeah,

01:15:14.939 --> 01:15:19.289
yeah. Aguero. Vieira will be on the bench. Van

01:15:19.289 --> 01:15:22.390
Dijk will probably be on the bench. Or Sol. Whoever

01:15:22.390 --> 01:15:24.750
we didn't put in out of Alisson and Schmeichel.

01:15:24.909 --> 01:15:26.729
We put in Alisson. Schmeichel's on the bench.

01:15:27.510 --> 01:15:31.189
Oh, God. Mo Salah, though. I was looking at his

01:15:31.189 --> 01:15:37.649
records. He's so good. I think if we'd have had

01:15:37.649 --> 01:15:39.609
this debate a year ago, I might have thought

01:15:39.609 --> 01:15:41.649
about that right wing position for a second.

01:15:41.989 --> 01:15:45.300
But Mo Salah. I can't put into words how it's

01:15:45.300 --> 01:15:47.000
the strangest season I've ever seen anyone have

01:15:47.000 --> 01:15:49.039
in the Premier League, up to, if you ignore the

01:15:49.039 --> 01:15:52.060
last couple of months, where Liverpool were basically

01:15:52.060 --> 01:15:54.460
on holiday for the entirety of May. So I can

01:15:54.460 --> 01:15:56.460
ignore that. But even April, he was getting a

01:15:56.460 --> 01:16:00.460
bit tired. It's not like he ever hit a 10, but

01:16:00.460 --> 01:16:03.699
he was always an 8 or a 9. He'd score a goal,

01:16:03.859 --> 01:16:06.760
two goals, an assist, two assists, a goal and

01:16:06.760 --> 01:16:08.619
an assist or something like that. This is it.

01:16:09.079 --> 01:16:11.720
And contribute throughout. He was just always...

01:16:12.010 --> 01:16:13.989
doing something he was just doing bits constantly

01:16:13.989 --> 01:16:16.949
he's the player with the most uh premier league

01:16:16.949 --> 01:16:20.569
seasons with 10 goal involvements or 10 assists

01:16:20.569 --> 01:16:23.350
in the competition's history or 10 or more mean

01:16:23.350 --> 01:16:27.609
i mean uh six six times he's got more than 10

01:16:27.609 --> 01:16:30.369
goals and assists in a season he's got the most

01:16:30.369 --> 01:16:32.970
goal involvements in a single season 47 which

01:16:32.970 --> 01:16:36.369
is insane yeah joint most golden boots with omri

01:16:36.369 --> 01:16:39.250
joint most footballers writers awards three which

01:16:39.250 --> 01:16:41.789
i think is also with omri fifth on the all -time

01:16:41.789 --> 01:16:44.090
goals list it's a no -brainer he's 10th he's

01:16:44.090 --> 01:16:48.149
10th on the all -time assists list like two prems

01:16:48.149 --> 01:16:50.250
yeah I would genuinely say to anyone questioning

01:16:50.250 --> 01:16:51.569
this if you're hearing this and thinking really

01:16:51.569 --> 01:16:55.149
over Ronaldo or over someone else I just think

01:16:55.149 --> 01:16:57.949
for a second he's way ahead Ronaldo Ronaldo is

01:16:57.949 --> 01:16:59.430
the best player to have ever played in the Premier

01:16:59.430 --> 01:17:01.970
League but in terms of the entirety of his career

01:17:01.970 --> 01:17:04.199
and the peak of his ability But that peak of

01:17:04.199 --> 01:17:05.840
his ability didn't happen while he was in the

01:17:05.840 --> 01:17:06.960
Premier League. That's the thing. It happened

01:17:06.960 --> 01:17:08.779
after he left and went to Real Madrid. Yeah.

01:17:08.859 --> 01:17:10.579
In the Premier League, he was good for a couple

01:17:10.579 --> 01:17:13.960
of seasons. One remarkable season. Brilliant

01:17:13.960 --> 01:17:15.500
for a couple of seasons. And he was good for

01:17:15.500 --> 01:17:18.220
a couple of, yeah, 31 goal, brilliant season.

01:17:18.359 --> 01:17:21.020
Yeah. A couple of really good seasons. A few

01:17:21.020 --> 01:17:23.359
when he was young and developing and doing too

01:17:23.359 --> 01:17:25.579
many stepovers and getting kicked too much. But,

01:17:25.579 --> 01:17:28.220
yeah, we can all go through that. And Mo went

01:17:28.220 --> 01:17:29.479
through that, obviously, at the beginning of

01:17:29.479 --> 01:17:31.460
his career as well. Yeah. Probably less so on

01:17:31.460 --> 01:17:34.199
the stepover front. struggle with Chelsea but

01:17:34.199 --> 01:17:37.699
yeah I think just just really think if you're

01:17:37.699 --> 01:17:39.760
questioning that not just for Ronaldo but for

01:17:39.760 --> 01:17:42.159
anyone else just really think about how good

01:17:42.159 --> 01:17:45.680
Mo Salah has been consistently year on year on

01:17:45.680 --> 01:17:48.920
year on year yeah he's easily he walks in mate

01:17:48.920 --> 01:17:51.340
you have to be blind to it Alan Shearer willfully

01:17:51.340 --> 01:17:53.020
blind to it and Shearer just because he's a goal

01:17:53.020 --> 01:17:55.600
machine right yeah I mean imagine Shearer getting

01:17:55.600 --> 01:17:58.479
diagonal balls from Kevin De Bruyne at that back

01:17:58.479 --> 01:18:01.960
post be unstoppable yeah exactly and then holding

01:18:01.960 --> 01:18:06.479
it up for Omri and Mo yeah jeez oh that would

01:18:06.479 --> 01:18:09.479
be unbelievable that I mean that yeah Alan Shearer

01:18:09.479 --> 01:18:11.359
is also a Premier League winner so let's not

01:18:11.359 --> 01:18:15.760
forget that yeah Blackburn 94 -95 yeah and incredible

01:18:15.760 --> 01:18:17.840
stuff he could have had more he went to Newcastle

01:18:17.840 --> 01:18:19.779
being a Newcastle fan like could have had more

01:18:19.779 --> 01:18:22.140
if there had been a Twitter of the day with a

01:18:22.140 --> 01:18:25.060
Fabrizio Romano of the day It had been signed

01:18:25.060 --> 01:18:26.939
off and done. Everyone was like, he is going

01:18:26.939 --> 01:18:28.800
to Manchester United. Had he gone to Manchester

01:18:28.800 --> 01:18:31.819
United, he'd have had five, six more titles,

01:18:31.960 --> 01:18:34.859
probably. But he didn't. He went to Newcastle

01:18:34.859 --> 01:18:38.159
and he nearly won the title there and then got

01:18:38.159 --> 01:18:40.899
relegated in the end there as player -manager.

01:18:41.060 --> 01:18:42.439
Was he player -manager? He was, wasn't he? Oh,

01:18:42.460 --> 01:18:44.479
no, no. He retired, didn't he? And then came

01:18:44.479 --> 01:18:46.439
back two years later as manager. Then they got

01:18:46.439 --> 01:18:50.640
relegated. But even so, don't care. He's a pundit.

01:18:50.659 --> 01:18:53.479
He's not a manager. But as a player... It's hard

01:18:53.479 --> 01:18:56.060
to point out just how good he was as well. Obviously

01:18:56.060 --> 01:18:57.420
it was the early days of the Premier League.

01:18:57.560 --> 01:18:59.439
I've really got to point this out. He's like

01:18:59.439 --> 01:19:02.819
Harry Kane on steroids. Yeah. So he retired really

01:19:02.819 --> 01:19:04.899
young from playing for England. This is another

01:19:04.899 --> 01:19:08.239
thing. 29? It was 30 years old. 29, 30, wherever

01:19:08.239 --> 01:19:10.020
he was. He retired from playing for England.

01:19:10.119 --> 01:19:13.140
He scored 30 goals in like 63 games for England.

01:19:13.340 --> 01:19:15.819
Pretty good. Scored obviously 260 Premier League

01:19:15.819 --> 01:19:18.600
goals. 260? Yeah, something like that. 260. A

01:19:18.600 --> 01:19:21.279
lot. Which the only person who ever had a chance

01:19:21.279 --> 01:19:23.380
of threatening that. since has been Harry Kane.

01:19:23.659 --> 01:19:26.199
Obviously, unless he comes back pretty pronto,

01:19:26.380 --> 01:19:28.420
that's not going to happen. Harry Kane would

01:19:28.420 --> 01:19:30.819
probably get, you know, you'd argue if you're

01:19:30.819 --> 01:19:32.520
going to get a like -for -like replacement on

01:19:32.520 --> 01:19:34.920
the bench, it would be Harry Kane. He was brilliant

01:19:34.920 --> 01:19:37.420
in the Premier League for a great number of seasons.

01:19:37.720 --> 01:19:41.119
Ridiculous. Carried spurs with Son's help. Shearer

01:19:41.119 --> 01:19:45.220
in 94 -95. Shearer and Sutton. Not Chris Sutton.

01:19:45.479 --> 01:19:48.159
As much of a, you know, prick as he's turned

01:19:48.159 --> 01:19:52.939
out to be as a pundit. He was great too. Those

01:19:52.939 --> 01:19:56.399
two together, Shearer had pace and power. His

01:19:56.399 --> 01:19:59.260
right boot was unbeatable. He just smashed it.

01:19:59.300 --> 01:20:02.340
His penalties, oh, his penalties. It's aspirational.

01:20:02.340 --> 01:20:04.060
That's how you want to take a penalty kick. A

01:20:04.060 --> 01:20:06.859
bit like Chloe Kelly. Smash it into the top corner.

01:20:07.039 --> 01:20:11.029
Yeah, just bins. No problem. Absolutely smashed

01:20:11.029 --> 01:20:12.890
it. I know we're diverging slightly, but obviously

01:20:12.890 --> 01:20:14.609
the Lionesses won, which is boss. Absolutely

01:20:14.609 --> 01:20:16.970
incredible scenes. Pulling pants left, right

01:20:16.970 --> 01:20:21.250
and center by not even leading games, but still

01:20:21.250 --> 01:20:24.630
coming out victorious. Who needs to? Yeah. Yeah.

01:20:24.670 --> 01:20:26.630
Million wastes of skin. We led for a minute of

01:20:26.630 --> 01:20:29.890
one of the games in extra time. Yep. I genuinely

01:20:29.890 --> 01:20:32.729
didn't. I was not worried when she stepped up

01:20:32.729 --> 01:20:35.350
to that penalty. I was like, we've won. And then

01:20:35.350 --> 01:20:38.060
when the young Spanish girl put it wide. When

01:20:38.060 --> 01:20:39.819
Chloe Kelly stepped up, I was like, this is in

01:20:39.819 --> 01:20:43.100
the bag. I know she missed in normal time against,

01:20:43.239 --> 01:20:45.619
was it Italy? And then she followed it up with

01:20:45.619 --> 01:20:48.800
a tap in on the rebound. But yeah, I've seen

01:20:48.800 --> 01:20:50.439
her take a lot of penalties. She's really good

01:20:50.439 --> 01:20:53.239
at them. So yes, Chloe Kelly or Alan Shearer.

01:20:53.640 --> 01:20:56.520
Take your pick for technique. Put Chloe Kelly

01:20:56.520 --> 01:21:00.260
on the bench. Yeah, Kelly on the bench. We're

01:21:00.260 --> 01:21:01.960
digressing. What I would like to know, Jack,

01:21:02.060 --> 01:21:05.229
is who's managing this team? Alex Ferguson. Yeah,

01:21:05.229 --> 01:21:11.470
he is, yeah. I mean, he is. He's won 13 league

01:21:11.470 --> 01:21:14.289
titles. 13 league titles, many doubles, a treble,

01:21:14.489 --> 01:21:17.470
three in a row. The second he left, Manchester

01:21:17.470 --> 01:21:20.409
United turned to absolute garbage. Other than

01:21:20.409 --> 01:21:22.529
under Mourinho, where they were garbage, but

01:21:22.529 --> 01:21:24.369
at least they were sort of hot garbage. At least

01:21:24.369 --> 01:21:27.340
they were getting results. That is true. There

01:21:27.340 --> 01:21:29.539
is a direct correlation between his departure

01:21:29.539 --> 01:21:33.840
and them becoming absolute dogshit. There's two

01:21:33.840 --> 01:21:36.800
ways to go about managing a football team, shall

01:21:36.800 --> 01:21:38.539
we say. I know this is very much generalisation,

01:21:38.699 --> 01:21:40.239
but you're either an Alex Ferguson or you're

01:21:40.239 --> 01:21:43.340
Jurgen Klopp. Either every player wants to give

01:21:43.340 --> 01:21:45.859
you a hug or no one wants to come within 50 yards

01:21:45.859 --> 01:21:48.619
of you in case you give them the hairdryer treatment,

01:21:48.680 --> 01:21:53.020
essentially. And yeah, his methods were old school,

01:21:53.100 --> 01:21:56.409
but my God, he got some... Bang average players

01:21:56.409 --> 01:22:00.949
playing in the best teams in Premier League history,

01:22:01.069 --> 01:22:03.609
like Park Ji -sung. I mean, don't get me wrong,

01:22:03.670 --> 01:22:05.590
bang average is harsh on Park Ji -sung and Nicky

01:22:05.590 --> 01:22:08.810
Butt and Luke Chadwick. John O'Shea, people like

01:22:08.810 --> 01:22:11.069
that. John O'Shea. Yeah, Wes Brown. They're all

01:22:11.069 --> 01:22:12.449
good players, obviously, don't get me wrong.

01:22:12.670 --> 01:22:19.670
He gaslighted me into thinking that United was

01:22:19.670 --> 01:22:23.890
stacked with Man City -esque quality when I was

01:22:23.890 --> 01:22:26.119
a kid. Just because, as you say, he got like

01:22:26.119 --> 01:22:28.539
superhuman performances out of guys that were

01:22:28.539 --> 01:22:31.000
clearly very good pros and clearly very talented

01:22:31.000 --> 01:22:34.220
players, but they weren't all tier one footballers.

01:22:34.399 --> 01:22:37.180
There was no way any one of those players, not

01:22:37.180 --> 01:22:39.239
just because of Ferguson, but also because of

01:22:39.239 --> 01:22:42.000
obviously Roy Keane and Gary Neville and Yap

01:22:42.000 --> 01:22:45.180
Stam and other leaders he constantly had rolling

01:22:45.180 --> 01:22:47.420
in and out of that team. There was no way any

01:22:47.420 --> 01:22:49.119
of them weren't giving less than 100 % every

01:22:49.119 --> 01:22:52.399
single game. And he got them fired up. He got

01:22:52.399 --> 01:22:55.369
them playing a certain way. doing it at 100 %

01:22:55.369 --> 01:22:57.829
pace and they always found a way to win. They

01:22:57.829 --> 01:23:00.310
were the fittest team. They were the best disciplined

01:23:00.310 --> 01:23:03.449
team, generally speaking. No quit. And they just

01:23:03.449 --> 01:23:06.989
had enough quality to win titles and win games.

01:23:07.109 --> 01:23:08.970
And they weren't putting on 100 points. They

01:23:08.970 --> 01:23:11.670
weren't putting on 95 points, even like Chelsea

01:23:11.670 --> 01:23:13.649
managed one season. They were winning the title.

01:23:13.789 --> 01:23:16.829
One time they won the title on 75 points in 1997.

01:23:17.909 --> 01:23:20.270
Sunderland got relegated that season on 40 points.

01:23:20.430 --> 01:23:22.890
It was 35 points between the champion and getting

01:23:22.890 --> 01:23:25.079
relegated. that season. And it actually should

01:23:25.079 --> 01:23:26.439
have been one less because Middlesbrough got

01:23:26.439 --> 01:23:28.260
points deduction. They'd have been on 41 points

01:23:28.260 --> 01:23:32.340
otherwise. It's mad. Yeah. It is. Crazy. But

01:23:32.340 --> 01:23:35.300
they won it. That's all that matters. Yeah. I

01:23:35.300 --> 01:23:39.699
agree. He's obviously managing this team. I mean,

01:23:39.819 --> 01:23:42.859
there are... That Pep would be a backup. I was

01:23:42.859 --> 01:23:45.380
going to say. And Klopp, not far behind that.

01:23:45.699 --> 01:23:47.939
So, the thing that's interesting... And Wenger

01:23:47.939 --> 01:23:52.159
as well, to be fair. I would... Maybe we can

01:23:52.159 --> 01:23:54.189
finish on this little debate. Those are, you've

01:23:54.189 --> 01:23:56.770
named them all, and Mourinho. They're the top

01:23:56.770 --> 01:24:00.270
five. Like, I would struggle to order them, but

01:24:00.270 --> 01:24:03.130
what I would say is like, in Wenger and Klopp's

01:24:03.130 --> 01:24:06.090
defense, Guardiola and Mourinho have both been

01:24:06.090 --> 01:24:09.770
oligarch teams. Yeah. And with a bottomless pit

01:24:09.770 --> 01:24:13.050
of resource. And Arsene Wenger in particular

01:24:13.050 --> 01:24:16.109
didn't have that. And he broke the United monopoly.

01:24:16.630 --> 01:24:18.810
He got Arsenal their first ever Premier League

01:24:18.810 --> 01:24:21.130
title. He's the only Arsenal manager to have

01:24:21.130 --> 01:24:23.460
ever won the Premier League. He obviously did

01:24:23.460 --> 01:24:25.739
it invincible. He changed the game. Yeah, he

01:24:25.739 --> 01:24:27.939
changed the game. Two doubles. You know, just

01:24:27.939 --> 01:24:32.800
like a pioneer, like an actual pioneer in every

01:24:32.800 --> 01:24:37.060
meaning of the word. Jurgen Klopp is not dissimilar,

01:24:37.119 --> 01:24:40.760
I don't think. Like, first Liverpool title for

01:24:40.760 --> 01:24:43.380
forever. Should have had three titles, you know

01:24:43.380 --> 01:24:46.460
what I mean? Like you say, everyone take the

01:24:46.460 --> 01:24:49.300
piss and say, oh yeah, but you know, that's what

01:24:49.300 --> 01:24:51.909
you guys were talking about earlier. you know

01:24:51.909 --> 01:24:56.470
the league is the league sure but like just because

01:24:56.470 --> 01:24:59.130
you're if you're incredible and your rival is

01:24:59.130 --> 01:25:01.470
double incredible doesn't mean that you're not

01:25:01.470 --> 01:25:04.949
incredible it doesn't undermine that you know

01:25:04.949 --> 01:25:06.850
that wasn't articulated very well but I think

01:25:06.850 --> 01:25:09.130
catch drift yeah I mean the fact that Jürgen

01:25:09.130 --> 01:25:12.130
Klopp is considered one of the top three managers

01:25:12.130 --> 01:25:14.329
in Liverpool history says everything you need

01:25:14.329 --> 01:25:16.689
to know yeah when the other two managers are

01:25:16.689 --> 01:25:20.439
Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley yeah esteemed company

01:25:20.439 --> 01:25:25.079
yeah i think those two deserve like some sort

01:25:25.079 --> 01:25:27.779
of acknowledgement of the context in which they

01:25:27.779 --> 01:25:30.079
created their success because i think jose and

01:25:30.079 --> 01:25:34.890
pep are unbelievable like marino When he came,

01:25:35.069 --> 01:25:36.390
I just remember, like, I'd never seen anything

01:25:36.390 --> 01:25:40.149
like him. You know, this, like, swashbuckling,

01:25:40.149 --> 01:25:44.390
charismatic, overtly arrogant. I think he's really

01:25:44.390 --> 01:25:47.130
underrated. Oh, he's so good, Mourinho. Like,

01:25:47.170 --> 01:25:50.350
first Chelsea title, back -to -backs, you know,

01:25:50.409 --> 01:25:54.010
three league titles. Incredible stuff. I used

01:25:54.010 --> 01:25:56.109
to hate him, and I'm sure you used to hate him,

01:25:56.170 --> 01:25:57.489
and I don't know what your feelings for him are

01:25:57.489 --> 01:26:00.170
now. I am warming so much to him. He's box office.

01:26:00.170 --> 01:26:01.989
The older and older I get, and the more I look

01:26:01.989 --> 01:26:03.210
back. It's not just because he's box office.

01:26:03.689 --> 01:26:06.010
I just think he's a genius. Yeah, he is. I think

01:26:06.010 --> 01:26:08.170
he absolutely understands football. From a tactical

01:26:08.170 --> 01:26:12.289
sense, I think he's up there with the best he's

01:26:12.289 --> 01:26:14.470
ever been. Like, he's in the top 10 in terms

01:26:14.470 --> 01:26:17.289
of the pioneers in the sport. And you might disagree

01:26:17.289 --> 01:26:19.350
it's not the way the sport should be played,

01:26:19.470 --> 01:26:23.090
but it's effective. He understands how to win.

01:26:23.289 --> 01:26:25.430
He's been successful at different teams. But

01:26:25.430 --> 01:26:27.430
he doesn't just understand how to win. I think...

01:26:27.739 --> 01:26:29.500
The point you've made there about him being effective

01:26:29.500 --> 01:26:31.920
at different teams, you could never accuse Mourinho

01:26:31.920 --> 01:26:34.000
of not getting the absolute maximum out of the

01:26:34.000 --> 01:26:36.579
sides he's managed. I think every club he's managed...

01:26:36.579 --> 01:26:38.159
For two or three years at least, yeah. Yeah,

01:26:38.159 --> 01:26:39.779
yeah, yeah, sure. He did nothing last forever,

01:26:39.880 --> 01:26:42.399
but I don't think anyone he's ever managed can

01:26:42.399 --> 01:26:45.300
say that he didn't extract the most out of them.

01:26:45.500 --> 01:26:48.479
No, certainly not. What else can you say? He's

01:26:48.479 --> 01:26:50.300
been successful everywhere he's gone, pretty

01:26:50.300 --> 01:26:53.520
much. Apart from Spurs, but what can you do there?

01:26:53.800 --> 01:26:56.539
Yeah, but he got Spurs to a final. they sacked

01:26:56.539 --> 01:26:59.060
him I've never managed Spurs in the final no

01:26:59.060 --> 01:27:01.619
because they sacked him on the eve of a final

01:27:01.619 --> 01:27:04.579
absolutely insane decision what a football club

01:27:04.579 --> 01:27:08.119
yeah yeah I know I've never known a team to fail

01:27:08.119 --> 01:27:10.180
to capitalise on the position they've been in

01:27:10.180 --> 01:27:12.260
so badly as Spurs Spurs should have won something

01:27:12.260 --> 01:27:14.800
like they should have won a title obviously they

01:27:14.800 --> 01:27:16.199
won the Europa League last season don't get me

01:27:16.199 --> 01:27:18.699
wrong but that 2019 obviously they got to the

01:27:18.699 --> 01:27:20.859
Champions League final they've been challenging

01:27:20.859 --> 01:27:22.500
a couple of Premier League titles before and

01:27:22.500 --> 01:27:25.250
they just let it slip They did not replace some

01:27:25.250 --> 01:27:26.850
of those players who were aging, the core of

01:27:26.850 --> 01:27:28.909
that team. I agree. Yeah. And like, don't get

01:27:28.909 --> 01:27:31.189
me wrong. I don't want to sound like, you know,

01:27:31.210 --> 01:27:32.729
I've said this before about Spurs as European

01:27:32.729 --> 01:27:36.229
trophy. I would, I would, I would happily take

01:27:36.229 --> 01:27:38.949
it if it was my team, of course, but like, let's

01:27:38.949 --> 01:27:41.130
get it right. They've won a diet European trophy.

01:27:41.529 --> 01:27:43.250
Like listen to our champions league episode.

01:27:43.310 --> 01:27:45.970
If you want to understand why we think that it's

01:27:45.970 --> 01:27:47.890
heavily, it's quite a long rant about heavily,

01:27:48.090 --> 01:27:50.829
heavily diluted tournament. Yeah. Certainly this

01:27:50.829 --> 01:27:53.300
year it was. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, at least Pep,

01:27:53.420 --> 01:27:55.439
mate. Do we really even need to say anything

01:27:55.439 --> 01:28:00.340
about Pep? Well, Pep's the pedigree. I mean,

01:28:00.399 --> 01:28:04.819
obviously, it's an easy place to go to say he

01:28:04.819 --> 01:28:07.560
played under Johan Cruyff. And Johan Cruyff obviously

01:28:07.560 --> 01:28:10.619
was part of an incredible footballing pedigree.

01:28:11.140 --> 01:28:14.220
Stretching back to... Dutch team in the 1970s

01:28:14.220 --> 01:28:16.880
and inherited this the total football mantra

01:28:16.880 --> 01:28:18.859
and understanding of positional play and the

01:28:18.859 --> 01:28:21.760
cerebral way he went about playing and coaching

01:28:21.760 --> 01:28:24.460
and obviously Pep's inherited that part of that

01:28:24.460 --> 01:28:27.100
dream team at Barcelona but he's built on it

01:28:27.100 --> 01:28:29.600
so much and he there was sort of this period

01:28:29.600 --> 01:28:32.460
but after 2005 they sort of as I mentioned they've

01:28:32.460 --> 01:28:34.479
weakened the offside law a couple of times and

01:28:34.479 --> 01:28:36.920
suddenly there's more space appearing in front

01:28:36.920 --> 01:28:39.880
of defences and the way tiki -taka and that sort

01:28:39.880 --> 01:28:42.520
of approach to football just exploited that and

01:28:42.520 --> 01:28:45.260
moved players around and created space obviously

01:28:45.260 --> 01:28:47.739
all football is built on what comes before you

01:28:47.739 --> 01:28:52.159
but he has been so incredibly important like

01:28:52.159 --> 01:28:54.180
when 100 years from now when you're talking about

01:28:54.180 --> 01:28:56.699
the annals of history and how football came to

01:28:56.699 --> 01:28:59.159
be what it is at any given time he is such a

01:28:59.159 --> 01:29:02.220
huge cog in that with that barcelona team and

01:29:02.220 --> 01:29:05.210
then obviously with city later on even if you

01:29:05.210 --> 01:29:08.010
can obviously criticize where City's ill -gotten

01:29:08.010 --> 01:29:10.409
gains, if you put it that way, or whatever else.

01:29:10.529 --> 01:29:13.729
But nevertheless, they wouldn't have won four

01:29:13.729 --> 01:29:16.310
titles in a row, a treble, and everything else

01:29:16.310 --> 01:29:18.210
if they had an average manager. You just can't.

01:29:18.550 --> 01:29:21.109
They had the best team, and they had the best

01:29:21.109 --> 01:29:24.130
manager to go with it. Yeah, six titles, 100

01:29:24.130 --> 01:29:27.310
points, a double, a treble, four in a row, doesn't

01:29:27.310 --> 01:29:29.069
happen just because you've got lots of money.

01:29:29.670 --> 01:29:34.039
We'd like to dismiss it like that. Let's say

01:29:34.039 --> 01:29:36.899
it wouldn't have happened if they didn't have

01:29:36.899 --> 01:29:38.840
lots of money, but just because they have lots

01:29:38.840 --> 01:29:40.739
of money doesn't guarantee you that. Teams have

01:29:40.739 --> 01:29:42.939
had lots of money before, but they've not dominated

01:29:42.939 --> 01:29:46.140
like that before. Exactly. In fact, on that point,

01:29:46.220 --> 01:29:48.279
I think that the only other managers to have

01:29:48.279 --> 01:29:50.659
ever even won this league are Kenny Dalglish

01:29:50.659 --> 01:29:53.500
with Blackburn. Legend. Carlo Ancelotti with

01:29:53.500 --> 01:29:56.819
Chelsea. Legend. Roberto Mancini with Man City.

01:29:57.300 --> 01:30:01.029
Very good. Yeah, Pellegrini with City. And Ranieri

01:30:01.029 --> 01:30:03.109
with Leicester and obviously Arnie Slott. Arnie

01:30:03.109 --> 01:30:07.550
Slott. Love him. With Liverpool. And what I'm

01:30:07.550 --> 01:30:10.010
trying to say there is that Blackburn were rich.

01:30:10.149 --> 01:30:12.010
None of them were English. None of them were

01:30:12.010 --> 01:30:15.310
English, yeah. Blackburn were rich. Carlo Ancelotti

01:30:15.310 --> 01:30:18.170
at Chelsea, they were rich. City are rich. So

01:30:18.170 --> 01:30:20.699
only really Ranieri and Arnie Slott. I mean,

01:30:20.720 --> 01:30:22.439
Liverpool are rich, as they're proving this summer.

01:30:22.500 --> 01:30:23.939
Let's not pretend that Liverpool aren't rich.

01:30:24.020 --> 01:30:26.060
Sorry, I don't... We just don't have a billionaire

01:30:26.060 --> 01:30:27.979
investor. Yes, that's what I'm really... When

01:30:27.979 --> 01:30:30.539
I say rich in the context of talking about football

01:30:30.539 --> 01:30:32.699
these days, one has to differentiate... Football

01:30:32.699 --> 01:30:35.520
is rich. Everyone is rich. Yes, yeah, yeah. You

01:30:35.520 --> 01:30:37.380
just have to differentiate between the filthy,

01:30:37.619 --> 01:30:40.239
astronomically rich and the rich. But Leicester

01:30:40.239 --> 01:30:42.180
definitely weren't rich. Leicester definitely

01:30:42.180 --> 01:30:45.300
weren't. They were okay. They had been bought

01:30:45.300 --> 01:30:48.340
out. They were well -supported. Yeah. But as

01:30:48.340 --> 01:30:51.359
we saw as years went by, That quickly disappears

01:30:51.359 --> 01:30:53.560
when you overinvest and now Leicester are not

01:30:53.560 --> 01:30:56.060
rich. Certainly not rich anymore. No, certainly

01:30:56.060 --> 01:30:59.380
not. Even despite their FA Cup win. I don't know

01:30:59.380 --> 01:31:02.500
if there's anything else to cover, mate. I'm

01:31:02.500 --> 01:31:05.100
just excited for it. I'm just going to go off

01:31:05.100 --> 01:31:08.359
and watch some highlights now. Dennis Bergkamp

01:31:08.359 --> 01:31:10.579
highlights. Dennis Bergkamp. Dennis Bergkamp.

01:31:10.680 --> 01:31:13.060
Thierry Henry highlights. Matt Letissier highlights.

01:31:14.579 --> 01:31:16.819
Yeah. What a player, though. Did struggle through

01:31:16.819 --> 01:31:20.260
COVID, though, didn't he? I mean, his highlight

01:31:20.260 --> 01:31:22.720
reel is like nothing else. Yeah, he was unreal.

01:31:23.079 --> 01:31:24.880
How can a player put that little effort into

01:31:24.880 --> 01:31:27.159
football and be that good at it? It's incredible.

01:31:28.199 --> 01:31:30.539
Yeah. I mean, if we start going down that rabbit

01:31:30.539 --> 01:31:32.659
hole, we'll be naming people forever. There's

01:31:32.659 --> 01:31:35.359
been some real talent. And it's all on show again.

01:31:35.819 --> 01:31:39.479
Starting soon. Strap in. Predictions? Put your

01:31:39.479 --> 01:31:41.460
money where your mouth is? Oh, mate, I'm never

01:31:41.460 --> 01:31:44.020
going to not stop dreaming of the Arsenal. But

01:31:44.020 --> 01:31:48.319
I think that you must start favourites. You're

01:31:48.319 --> 01:31:50.020
the current champ. That's fair. You've still

01:31:50.020 --> 01:31:54.199
got Alisson, Van Dijk and Mo. You have spent

01:31:54.199 --> 01:31:57.779
an inordinate amount of cash on some very talented

01:31:57.779 --> 01:32:01.020
forwards, particularly Wurz. I would just say

01:32:01.020 --> 01:32:03.880
Man City, they will come back hard. They've still

01:32:03.880 --> 01:32:06.539
got a great team. I agree that City will always

01:32:06.539 --> 01:32:08.920
be there or thereabouts because they're a wounded

01:32:08.920 --> 01:32:11.140
animal. I think Arsenal are going to be competitive,

01:32:11.260 --> 01:32:14.760
but I think that our season hinges on how effective

01:32:14.760 --> 01:32:19.210
Big Vic is. 100%. And I don't know how effective

01:32:19.210 --> 01:32:21.670
he's going to be. He could go completely either

01:32:21.670 --> 01:32:24.130
way. I agree. The one thing I would say about

01:32:24.130 --> 01:32:27.090
him, and I know this is not any kind of scientific

01:32:27.090 --> 01:32:31.710
measure, he does have main man energy. He doesn't

01:32:31.710 --> 01:32:33.470
seem to be... That's not how you normally describe

01:32:33.470 --> 01:32:38.069
it. That's not the word you normally use. He

01:32:38.069 --> 01:32:42.289
just doesn't look overawed. And I guess that's

01:32:42.289 --> 01:32:45.199
a good foundation. It's only observational. I

01:32:45.199 --> 01:32:47.460
think so. He just looks like he wants it, you

01:32:47.460 --> 01:32:49.399
know? It's always difficult as a striker because

01:32:49.399 --> 01:32:51.079
you get criticised if you don't score goals,

01:32:51.239 --> 01:32:53.340
even if you're being really effective. And someone

01:32:53.340 --> 01:32:55.960
like him can be really effective, even without

01:32:55.960 --> 01:32:59.159
scoring goals. If you look at the classic target

01:32:59.159 --> 01:33:02.079
man striker of days past, Didier Drogba and the

01:33:02.079 --> 01:33:04.000
like, it doesn't matter how many goals you score,

01:33:04.039 --> 01:33:06.050
sometimes you will... create space for those

01:33:06.050 --> 01:33:08.649
around you bloody blah etc and also have a lot

01:33:08.649 --> 01:33:10.689
of talent around him so that's true i think he

01:33:10.689 --> 01:33:12.270
probably will score goals though it would help

01:33:12.270 --> 01:33:13.630
i think he'll make you better he will certainly

01:33:13.630 --> 01:33:16.750
make us better uh gives us more options king

01:33:16.750 --> 01:33:18.670
kai will still be doing his bit it would help

01:33:18.670 --> 01:33:21.029
if all of our players hamstrings didn't explode

01:33:21.029 --> 01:33:24.289
simultaneously this time and if referees didn't

01:33:24.289 --> 01:33:27.430
fucking send off all our players excuses excuses

01:33:27.430 --> 01:33:30.750
excuses for kicking the ball away despite not

01:33:30.750 --> 01:33:34.489
enforcing that rule Ever again, it seems. Okay,

01:33:34.489 --> 01:33:37.270
okay, okay. Come on. We nearly got through the

01:33:37.270 --> 01:33:39.930
whole episode. What, without going in on VAR

01:33:39.930 --> 01:33:46.090
and the PGMOL? Jesus Christ. People will spare

01:33:46.090 --> 01:33:47.350
people. We'll just do a whole episode on that

01:33:47.350 --> 01:33:49.390
sometime. Yeah, we'll spare people that for now.

01:33:49.670 --> 01:33:51.569
I'll give you an unplugged mic and just have

01:33:51.569 --> 01:33:54.909
you rant for a couple of hours. I do think Arsenal

01:33:54.909 --> 01:33:57.390
could do with a bit more on the left side. So

01:33:57.390 --> 01:33:59.329
maybe another signing there, but we'll see. But

01:33:59.329 --> 01:34:00.850
yes, I think it's going to be very fun. Chelsea

01:34:00.850 --> 01:34:03.079
will be a threat. I mean, it'll be very interesting

01:34:03.079 --> 01:34:05.100
to see what happens with regards to the likes

01:34:05.100 --> 01:34:09.399
of Newcastle, Villa, United, Spurs. Because I

01:34:09.399 --> 01:34:11.359
think Thomas Frank is a very good manager. I

01:34:11.359 --> 01:34:14.720
do too, yeah. And Brentford for that matter.

01:34:14.760 --> 01:34:16.140
What's going to happen to them and a couple of

01:34:16.140 --> 01:34:17.779
the other teams at the bottom? Oh God, they've

01:34:17.779 --> 01:34:19.720
been gutted, haven't they? Wolves and Brentford

01:34:19.720 --> 01:34:21.979
and some others. Obviously the newly promoted

01:34:21.979 --> 01:34:25.140
teams. Brentford, one of the great stories. 2007,

01:34:25.600 --> 01:34:28.319
2008, they're in League 2. Yeah, they've had

01:34:28.319 --> 01:34:30.180
a couple of good seasons. I think this season,

01:34:30.260 --> 01:34:32.819
what were they? 11th or 12th? 10th maybe? They

01:34:32.819 --> 01:34:35.460
did quite well this season. Yeah, they did. But

01:34:35.460 --> 01:34:37.439
they've always been there or there about a relegation.

01:34:37.539 --> 01:34:40.659
Never quite in the mix. But generally they're

01:34:40.659 --> 01:34:42.600
all there about. So I don't know. I'm worried

01:34:42.600 --> 01:34:44.220
about them. They've lost Frank. They've lost

01:34:44.220 --> 01:34:47.380
Norgaard to us. They've lost Mbwemo. Looks like

01:34:47.380 --> 01:34:50.039
they're going to lose Visser. They need to reinvest

01:34:50.039 --> 01:34:52.060
somehow. Fingers crossed for them because we

01:34:52.060 --> 01:34:53.979
like Brentford. They need to get it right. Yeah,

01:34:54.039 --> 01:34:57.239
me too. But not at the expense of Leeds. Not

01:34:57.239 --> 01:34:58.920
at the expense of Leeds. Leeds is Leeds. I really

01:34:58.920 --> 01:35:01.659
hope Leeds stay up. That would be nice. Anyway.

01:35:01.720 --> 01:35:04.060
Who would you like to see go down? Fuck off Burnley.

01:35:04.239 --> 01:35:06.220
Yeah, Burnley, fuck them. Who would I like to

01:35:06.220 --> 01:35:09.279
see go down? Manchester United, Tottenham Hotspur

01:35:09.279 --> 01:35:12.260
and Manchester City after a thousand point deduction.

01:35:12.640 --> 01:35:14.819
That would be nice. That would be good. Who do

01:35:14.819 --> 01:35:17.039
I realistically think would go down? I don't

01:35:17.039 --> 01:35:19.319
care for Burnley. I don't care about Burnley.

01:35:19.439 --> 01:35:21.939
I would like to see Sunderland stay up and I'd

01:35:21.939 --> 01:35:25.340
like to see Leeds stay up. Same. I think Wolves

01:35:25.340 --> 01:35:27.340
are... Yeah, Wolves are a bit benign, aren't

01:35:27.340 --> 01:35:29.159
they? They're a bit championship now, but we'll

01:35:29.159 --> 01:35:33.000
see what happens. Yeah. But anyway. And one more.

01:35:33.079 --> 01:35:38.159
One more. Spurs. Spurs. I don't think that's

01:35:38.159 --> 01:35:39.000
going to happen, mate. Sorry, Tottenham fans.

01:35:39.140 --> 01:35:41.939
I know. I'm an Arsenal fan. Yes. All right. Well,

01:35:42.100 --> 01:35:44.159
everyone should know where to watch it because

01:35:44.159 --> 01:35:47.180
we basically told the story. Yeah. Amazon Prime

01:35:47.180 --> 01:35:50.399
have a few games and TNT Sports have a few games

01:35:50.399 --> 01:35:52.560
in England. And I'm sure lots of places, lots

01:35:52.560 --> 01:35:54.060
of places around the world have lots and lots

01:35:54.060 --> 01:35:55.640
of games. And you watch three o 'clock kickoffs

01:35:55.640 --> 01:35:58.029
on a Saturday. If you're not in the United Kingdom

01:35:58.029 --> 01:36:00.409
as well. So bonus there. Yeah, you can. That's

01:36:00.409 --> 01:36:02.229
crazy. You can't watch them in the UK unless

01:36:02.229 --> 01:36:05.229
you get it on a dodgy feed, obviously, which

01:36:05.229 --> 01:36:08.010
I would never do. Never. Good boys here on the

01:36:08.010 --> 01:36:09.930
Almanac. All right, nice. Well, where are we

01:36:09.930 --> 01:36:13.010
going next week, Jack? Next week, all being well,

01:36:13.109 --> 01:36:15.550
I believe we are going to really, really early

01:36:15.550 --> 01:36:19.130
preview the Women's Rugby World Cup. That'll

01:36:19.130 --> 01:36:21.550
be fun. As in it doesn't start for a long time.

01:36:22.430 --> 01:36:25.489
we've got a pretty packed are we sandwiching

01:36:25.489 --> 01:36:28.050
that in with the rugby championship i think so

01:36:28.050 --> 01:36:30.550
yeah yeah nice we'll do we'll do a rugby doubleheader

01:36:30.550 --> 01:36:33.369
a bit of rugby yeah nice yeah and then it'll

01:36:33.369 --> 01:36:36.930
be the us open the week after tennis oh yeah

01:36:36.930 --> 01:36:40.090
arthur ash lots to come as there always is in

01:36:40.090 --> 01:36:42.369
the sporting calendar it never disappoints excellent

01:36:42.369 --> 01:36:46.130
well see you see you soon then pal yeah see you

01:36:46.130 --> 01:36:51.600
soon bye once more thank you for listening again

01:36:51.600 --> 01:36:53.739
to the sporting almanac podcast if you enjoyed

01:36:53.739 --> 01:36:56.039
this episode then as always a like a subscribe

01:36:56.039 --> 01:36:58.520
a rate or comment would be great but please do

01:36:58.520 --> 01:37:00.359
tell your friends and family first and foremost

01:37:00.359 --> 01:37:02.579
it only takes a second and it means a lot to

01:37:02.579 --> 01:37:05.260
us the tune onto the intro is from low town music

01:37:05.260 --> 01:37:07.460
and our theme tune is oh yeah by harmonia productions

01:37:07.460 --> 01:37:09.640
you can find us on instagram and blue sky at

01:37:09.640 --> 01:37:11.779
the sporting almanac or drop us an email at the

01:37:11.779 --> 01:37:14.600
sporting almanac podcast at gmail .com Next up,

01:37:14.619 --> 01:37:16.239
it's some more Rugby Union ahead of the Rugby

01:37:16.239 --> 01:37:18.399
Championship and Women's World Cup. Until then,

01:37:18.500 --> 01:37:20.159
enjoy the football while you still have all your

01:37:20.159 --> 01:37:23.020
hope and stay curious. Remember, sport is nothing

01:37:23.020 --> 01:37:24.859
without the history that makes it. Goodbye.