WEBVTT

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Riders up. They say it's the greatest two minutes

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in sport. Running for roses, black -eyed Susans

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and carnations. Before you get your flowers,

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then it comes down to the test of the champion.

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You only get one shot. There are no second chances.

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Three races, five weeks, no time to rest. No

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time to hesitate. It's all or nothing. The most

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coveted title in American horse racing. Calm,

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then a cacophony of cheers. The thunder of hooves,

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the roars of adoring crowds, the Kentucky Derby,

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the Preakness Stakes, the Belmont Stakes. Together,

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they are the triple crown of American horse racing.

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This is the Sporting Almanac Podcast. afternoon

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ben afternoon jack how are you today yeah i'm

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okay thanks mate i'm having a very restful weekend

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how are you i'm in london because uh we're down

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for the marathon my wife is running the marathon

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yeah and uh couldn't couldn't be more excited

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by that yeah i was gonna say you are actually

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attending a major sporting event this weekend

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I'm attending a genuine major sporting event,

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which I did mention just right at the end last

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week. Probably should have given it more attention,

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really. It's the kind of thing I can see us doing

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a full episode on in the future, shall we say.

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Yeah, definitely. Plenty of history behind it.

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I went last year as well. It is actually genuinely,

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if anyone can get into London for it or is around

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London, it is a genuinely interesting and fun

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thing to watch. Obviously, we've got the elite

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runners first. Obviously, you've got all the

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people dressed up. rhinos you've got people dressed

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as fridges last year um roresh raganathan was

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running it last year and was getting a lot of

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attention um it's just it's just a nice place

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to be would recommend it's an all -day event

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isn't it it's um basically a day out pro race

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it's definitely a day out yeah yeah pro racing

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in the morning uh men's women's disability races

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and then um then all the amateurs for the entire

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day which is nice. People lining the streets,

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a few drinks if the weather's good. Yeah, I think

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I'll be heading to the Cutty Sark, so looking

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forward to it. Oh, that'll be a good location

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to watch it. Indeed. I've got a friend whose

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daughter is doing St John's Ambulance, and she's

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going to be at Mile 22, so I suspect she will

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be busy. Yes, I suspect so. But yeah, it's good

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of her. Yeah, exactly. Where should we start?

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Last week's events? yeah last week's events obviously

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we'll start with the the main events and we've

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had first few rounds of the the NFL draft Cam

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Ward going first overall to the Tennessee Titans

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as expected Travis Hunter going second pick as

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expected but not to the Browns as expected the

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Jaguars traded up for him so two -way player

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Travis Hunter will be at the Jacksonville Jaguars

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next season so lucky for us Brits because I believe

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they're coming to Wembley the major shock of

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the Draft so far is Shadow Sanders dropping way

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down, so we'll see how that resolves itself.

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I have opinions about that. Maybe that's best

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for another episode. I did see that. That's the

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big shock, isn't it? Anyway, snooker as well.

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Yeah. Big news there. Lots of updates in the

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snooker. Yeah, the rocket. The rocket's through.

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Beat Ali Carter. Good. Comfortably, in the end.

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Yeah. Fairly comfortably in the end. Four -time

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winner Mark Selby is out. Yeah, a bit of a shock.

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He lost to Ben Williston. And obviously we've

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previously mentioned that reigning champ Kyron

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Wilson is gone. Less of a shock. Almost a certainty.

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Yeah, well, some really good last 16 ties are

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underway, actually, involving Mark Higgins. Sorry,

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not Mark Higgins. John Higgins and Mark Williams.

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They're not playing each other, but they're in

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a bit of a ding -dong, both of them. And the

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pick of the last 16 rounds is probably Judd Trump

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versus Sean Murphy, both former champs. Yeah.

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And the other bit of interesting news was Mark

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Allen hit a 147, which obviously we discussed

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in our snooker episode. It's very rare. And very

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lucrative for him. Very lucrative for him, along

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with the qualifier, pocketing himself quite a

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lot of money, £147 ,000 a pack. Unless he gets

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a share of it, I don't know. I need to check

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that. It might now be divided. Either way. But

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still, yeah, it's a handsome payout. But he's

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also out. Oh, okay. So just a little bit of a

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bet out. Yeah, it's a sweetener for Mark Allen

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as he went out. A consolation prize. Yeah, he

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hit his 147 when he was like 9 -3 down or something.

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So pressure off and why not? That's for the weekend

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sporting news. We are recording too early to

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come across. We've got Liverpool potentially

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wrapping up the title tomorrow and the Arsenal

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ladies. taking on Lyon in Lyon, a goal down.

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So we'll see how that resolves itself. And, of

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course, the Red Roses and France Grand Slam decider

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in the Women's Six Nations tomorrow. So fingers

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crossed for all our respective teams there. Absolutely.

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Do you want me to just summarise what we've got

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coming up on this bank holiday weekend that is

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approaching? I'm going to whistle -stop it because

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there is a lot. So we've got the Beach Soccer

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World Cup, which has started and is ongoing.

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That's coming up. We nearly did an episode on

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that. Maybe next year or next time. Exactly.

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We flared with that one. But we decided to go

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in a different direction. The women's Vuelta

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in cycling starts, which is cool. Nice. Men's

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Champions League semi -finals in midweek, which

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is obviously Arsenal, PSG and Barcelona versus

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Inter Milan or Internacionali, I think as they

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prefer to be called. Nervous? Very. So stop talking

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to me about it. I'm trying to stay calm and not

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think about it. Premier League, as you've already

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mentioned, will be wrapped up in terms of relegation

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and title race by then in all probability. But

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the top four is very fun. So that carries on.

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IPL continues. Gadrat, Delhi and RCB are all

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setting the pace at the halfway point or near

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halfway point. We have the Miami Grand Prix next

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weekend. There is a lot, isn't there? Mate, it

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gets worse. The Champions Cup semi -finals in

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Men's Rugby Union. Northampton Saints versus

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Leinster and Bordeaux versus Toulouse. The European

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Challenge Cup semi -finals in Men's Rugby Union.

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Lyon versus Racing 92 and Edinburgh versus Bath.

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The Super Rugby season has kicked off and is

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approaching its halfway point with the Chiefs

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and the Crusaders leading the way. And you have

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the Super League season also. near enough at

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the halfway point in terms of regular domestic

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season games. Hull KR and Wigan setting the pace

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there. And you have the Diamond League in athletics

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in China, in Shanghai. So bank holiday weekend,

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just tuck in, basically. Tuck in. And that's

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without even mentioning our main event. Yeah,

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I think we can safely say it's something for

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everyone this weekend. Yeah, exactly. If you're

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a sports lover. Yeah, including fans of horse

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racing, of course. What do we have this weekend,

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Ben? We have the first race of the American Triple

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Crown of horse racing from the Kentucky Derby.

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Kentucky Derby. We're going to do this all episode.

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You're going to call it the Derby because that's

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what the Yanks call it. And I'm going to call

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it the Derby because it's named after the Epson

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Derby. this is true uh it is uh it's a bit like

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last week me referring to football and soccer

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uh you've got to respect the uh the hosts of

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the particular event and that's that's all i'm

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doing ben but you go about it whichever way you

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want no you're right you are right um i just

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will slip into calling it the derby constantly

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because out of habit i'm also i'm also potentially

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going to go to tennessee later in the year to

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kentucky sorry later in the year and tennessee

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and a few other places. So I feel like I have

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to be respectful for my future hosts and they

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will be making my food. So best to start now.

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They will be making my food. I love that. Yes.

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Okay. Well, Kentucky Derby then. Derby. I will

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try and get into the habit. But should we start

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with what the Triple Crown itself is? Because

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it's quite niche, actually, if you're not familiar

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with horse racing and particularly not familiar

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with American horse racing. yeah so um i mean

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these are the three events that american horse

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racing revolves around essentially they're all

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grade one listed races uh can you tell us anything

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about what grade one listed means ben yeah i

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can you know i love a tangent into the technicalities

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the highest class of race in an american horse

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racing basically um it's difficult to summarize

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the classification process it's quite complex

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various criteria but the grade level is ultimately

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really assigned by looking at data that indicates

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the quality of the field for the last five years

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and basically in order to i think in simple terms

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in order to achieve or maintain grade one status

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it's necessary to attract a competitive field

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for a number of years Obviously, they look at

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the data over the last five. But the longer you're

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doing it, obviously, the more likely you are

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to fulfill that criteria. They also have some

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very strict anti -doping requirements, which

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we might flirt with in this episode. It'll get

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mentioned. Yeah, basically, it'll become pretty

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self -explanatory. But yeah, you have to meet

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some anti -doping. uh regulations essentially

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in order to be grade one um and the decision

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is taken by the american grade stakes committee

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of the thoroughbred owners and breeders association

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which is an absolute mouthful um it is a mouthful

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but yeah many one grade one races a weight for

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age so uh that's weights adjusted only according

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to age and sex um obviously male or female horses

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and there are also some set weights um where

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all the horses are required to carry the same

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weight Usually applicable when all the horses

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are of the same age and sex, which will become

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pretty relevant to our events that we're discussing

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today because they are all three -year -olds

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across all three of the Triple Crown races. And

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the Grade 1 races must have a purse of at least

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$300 ,000, but not all races with such a high

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purse are Grade 1, if that makes sense. So if

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you have... a purse of over three hundred thousand

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dollars you can be grade one but just because

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you do doesn't make you a grade one there are

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i think yeah some other races that are more lucrative

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but i feel that i feel there's probably more

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races on the borderline than the kentucky derby

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the preakness stakes or the belmont stakes which

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are the free triple crown events i feel like

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these are comfortably grade one events and that

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is not going to change anytime soon Yeah, and

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that's probably something to do with their longevity,

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their cultural significance, et cetera, et cetera.

00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:39.919
Yeah. Go on. Like in the UK, horse racing is,

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obviously the horse racing in the UK goes back

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in organized terms to the 18th century. Obviously,

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America is a much newer country, but these are

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still old races. The Belmont Stakes is actually

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the oldest. It's still third of the three to

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be run of the Triple Crown events each year.

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It was first run in 1867. Which is mad. which

00:11:57.320 --> 00:11:59.899
is very old, the Preakness Stakes following it

00:11:59.899 --> 00:12:03.279
in 1873. And then two years later in 1875, the

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first ever Kentucky Derby, which is, I would

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say, it feels to me the most famous and the most

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prestigious. But of course, winning the Triple

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Crown is the greatest thing you can do. So they

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are nothing without each other in this case.

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I'd agree with that, though. It's weird because

00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:21.779
it's the newest, but it's certainly internationally

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the most reputable. yeah if you said kentucky

00:12:26.659 --> 00:12:29.620
derby i think most um armchair sports fans would

00:12:29.620 --> 00:12:32.360
know what it was i've heard of it yeah exactly

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but i wouldn't necessarily say the same is true

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of the belmont or the preakness no i wouldn't

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say so and it's certainly uh it's only really

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this year that i've even before we even started

00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:46.070
this podcast i just happened to have been reading

00:12:46.070 --> 00:12:48.009
a book or listening to a book because i don't

00:12:48.009 --> 00:12:50.750
read i only listen uh listening to a book on

00:12:50.750 --> 00:12:53.690
on this um which is great horse racing mysteries

00:12:53.690 --> 00:12:58.889
which i can recommend by john mcavoy so uh that

00:12:58.889 --> 00:13:02.210
sort of turned me on to the subject matter and

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uh obviously it was only really then i really

00:13:04.529 --> 00:13:06.289
appreciated the preakness stakes and the belmont

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stakes i'd heard of them but didn't appreciate

00:13:08.370 --> 00:13:10.509
how big they were and how much history goes behind

00:13:10.509 --> 00:13:13.750
it so it is very it's a very fascinating event

00:13:13.750 --> 00:13:16.480
very fascinating history And boys are a lot of

00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:19.860
scandal and a lot of controversy in the past

00:13:19.860 --> 00:13:21.820
of it as well, which we will get into. Yeah,

00:13:21.899 --> 00:13:24.059
I mean, it's a strange event, like how it came

00:13:24.059 --> 00:13:25.720
about as well, because like you say, the order

00:13:25.720 --> 00:13:28.879
in which the races emerged historically and then

00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:32.440
now the order in which they are run and the reputation

00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:34.580
that precedes each of the respective races. But

00:13:34.580 --> 00:13:37.120
I think it came about because basically thoroughbred

00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:40.200
owners began sending their successful Kentucky

00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:44.070
Derby. race winners to yeah to compete in the

00:13:44.070 --> 00:13:47.389
others in the preakness that is and in the belmont

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and then because they were doing that there was

00:13:51.230 --> 00:13:53.529
just a consistency about it and it slowly turned

00:13:53.529 --> 00:13:58.029
into um what is known as the as the triple crown

00:13:58.029 --> 00:14:01.190
yeah but i like that i like it when things develop

00:14:01.190 --> 00:14:04.429
naturally and develop in a sporting manner like

00:14:04.429 --> 00:14:08.129
that the uh people realize naturally over time

00:14:08.129 --> 00:14:11.759
it is hard to win all three races And it didn't

00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:14.919
happen until 1919 was the first time it happened.

00:14:15.100 --> 00:14:18.600
Sir Barton, the first horse to win all three

00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:23.240
races. But even then, it was 1930 before the

00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:26.299
phrase Triple Crown was really utilised as a

00:14:26.299 --> 00:14:29.519
phrase. When Gallant Fox became the second horse

00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:33.320
to win all three after Sir Barton. And sports

00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:35.559
writer Charles Hatton brought the phrase into

00:14:35.559 --> 00:14:37.679
American usage there. So the races were going

00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:41.940
on for... what was that 60 years before uh they

00:14:41.940 --> 00:14:44.580
were sort of linked together so i i like that

00:14:44.580 --> 00:14:47.259
it's happened naturally and i like that it is

00:14:47.259 --> 00:14:49.500
again we said this previously about sports it's

00:14:49.500 --> 00:14:52.220
so rare you get a triple crown winner that it

00:14:52.220 --> 00:14:55.460
makes it special indeed we went 37 years until

00:14:55.460 --> 00:14:59.279
recently without one um so yeah no it's cool

00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:01.259
i think it's cool it is very cool and they're

00:15:01.259 --> 00:15:04.009
like um It's funny how these things sort of gather

00:15:04.009 --> 00:15:07.070
pace, isn't it? Because you mentioned our sports

00:15:07.070 --> 00:15:09.590
writing friend, Charles Hatton, as if we know

00:15:09.590 --> 00:15:12.990
each other. But I think that was sort of like

00:15:12.990 --> 00:15:17.909
the first example, not a first example, but one

00:15:17.909 --> 00:15:21.009
of the first examples of media hype and public

00:15:21.009 --> 00:15:24.009
interest really playing a role in the emergence

00:15:24.009 --> 00:15:27.529
of what is now a well -known series of races.

00:15:27.649 --> 00:15:31.149
Because I think there was basically... a lot

00:15:31.149 --> 00:15:33.610
of speculation and media hype around the possibility

00:15:33.610 --> 00:15:36.529
of a super horse that could win yeah all three

00:15:36.529 --> 00:15:39.529
races uh having um in the weeks leading up to

00:15:39.529 --> 00:15:41.289
the derby because uh yeah i don't think they

00:15:41.289 --> 00:15:43.210
necessarily run in the same order back then either

00:15:43.210 --> 00:15:45.730
but it probably got coined because of that because

00:15:45.730 --> 00:15:49.070
of people championing uh you know and hyping

00:15:49.070 --> 00:15:52.009
up a particular horse and then it happened and

00:15:52.009 --> 00:15:54.809
then it happened exactly yeah which is great

00:15:54.809 --> 00:15:57.389
and then that captures um public interest for

00:15:57.389 --> 00:15:59.250
years to come and obviously we've said before

00:15:59.250 --> 00:16:02.159
about how We mentioned with the NFL last week,

00:16:02.299 --> 00:16:05.720
sports growing in the 1920s, 1930s. Baseball

00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:08.179
obviously took off there with the New York Yankees,

00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:10.419
particularly being the first sort of super team

00:16:10.419 --> 00:16:13.399
in American sport. It was because everyone had,

00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:15.519
at that point, a lot of people have radios in

00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:19.059
their house and that is instantaneous news. Instead

00:16:19.059 --> 00:16:21.100
of having to pick it up the next day via newspapers,

00:16:21.460 --> 00:16:24.440
being able to listen to sportscasts coming through,

00:16:24.539 --> 00:16:27.840
live updates of a game going on hundreds, thousands

00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:31.950
of miles away. And yeah, this kind of jumped

00:16:31.950 --> 00:16:36.110
on that particular bandwagon and came at an opportune

00:16:36.110 --> 00:16:39.370
time, obviously 1930. Gallant Fox doing it and

00:16:39.370 --> 00:16:42.309
the rest, as they say, is history. I mean, to

00:16:42.309 --> 00:16:45.409
say how these races were considered separate

00:16:45.409 --> 00:16:48.250
to one another prior to this, they were also,

00:16:48.429 --> 00:16:51.309
the Preakness was ran on the same day as the

00:16:51.309 --> 00:16:53.830
Derby on a couple of occasions. The Derby, sorry.

00:16:54.110 --> 00:16:57.750
So 1917, 1922, there was no way you could have

00:16:57.750 --> 00:17:00.259
a triple crown. winner that year yeah exactly

00:17:00.259 --> 00:17:03.080
those two years rather um yeah those two years

00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:06.720
i think it was yeah was it before 31 it was 11

00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:08.819
times the preakness was run before the derby

00:17:08.819 --> 00:17:11.900
and it was from basically after gallant's fox

00:17:11.900 --> 00:17:14.940
won it that's when they decided to like formalize

00:17:14.940 --> 00:17:17.279
the process and put it in the order in which

00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:20.019
it is now run i think yeah on the back of the

00:17:20.019 --> 00:17:23.000
the public interest essentially i can imagine

00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:26.849
so yeah There was no trophy for it either until

00:17:26.849 --> 00:17:30.269
the 1950s. I think, in fact, 1950. That's when

00:17:30.269 --> 00:17:33.450
the trophy was commissioned. It was retrospectively

00:17:33.450 --> 00:17:36.390
awarded to the winners that had achieved the

00:17:36.390 --> 00:17:38.950
feat. Posthumously, I imagine, for the horses.

00:17:39.309 --> 00:17:41.450
Yeah, yeah. But there's been a trophy ever since

00:17:41.450 --> 00:17:43.970
1950. Not that many people have won it because

00:17:43.970 --> 00:17:46.970
only 13 horses have ever won the Triple Crown.

00:17:47.130 --> 00:17:50.789
Most recently, Justify in 2018. And I really

00:17:50.789 --> 00:17:52.369
like the name of this horse, American Pharaoh.

00:17:53.210 --> 00:17:56.630
Yeah, it's a good name. In 2015. But as you said,

00:17:56.809 --> 00:17:59.930
there hadn't been a Triple Crown winner. Between

00:17:59.930 --> 00:18:06.250
2015 and 1978, which is the longest gap ever

00:18:06.250 --> 00:18:08.789
in the history of the Triple Crown, 37 years.

00:18:08.950 --> 00:18:11.809
Yeah. The 1970s were actually a very fruitful

00:18:11.809 --> 00:18:14.829
decade for Triple Crown winners. And they were

00:18:14.829 --> 00:18:19.490
kicked off by the legendary Secretariat in 1973.

00:18:20.299 --> 00:18:23.819
who will almost certainly come up again because

00:18:23.819 --> 00:18:26.640
I don't think a horse has ever been more dominant

00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:32.680
probably no I think by any measure by the lengthy

00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:36.660
one by the statistical analysis that goes into

00:18:36.660 --> 00:18:41.440
horses incredible horse incredible yeah and we

00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:44.380
say that coming off the 1970s where you had Secretaria

00:18:44.380 --> 00:18:47.910
and then two more winners in the 1970s 37 years

00:18:47.910 --> 00:18:50.569
without a Triple Crown winner, it doesn't remove

00:18:50.569 --> 00:18:53.609
from the mystique of it. It adds the mystique,

00:18:53.630 --> 00:18:56.369
and then when American Pharoah finally did it,

00:18:56.430 --> 00:18:59.809
it's global news when that happens. It's good.

00:18:59.970 --> 00:19:05.650
It shows how history builds onto individual events,

00:19:05.769 --> 00:19:08.009
which is essentially what we're trying to do

00:19:08.009 --> 00:19:10.470
with this podcast, give you the context for it,

00:19:10.529 --> 00:19:13.390
and then it makes when it happens seem all the

00:19:13.390 --> 00:19:16.059
more special. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, it's

00:19:16.059 --> 00:19:19.380
supposed to be hard, right? Yeah, it is. Well,

00:19:19.380 --> 00:19:22.220
it's incredibly hard. You only get one shot at

00:19:22.220 --> 00:19:24.700
it. I only get one shot because it's only three

00:19:24.700 --> 00:19:26.240
-year -old, so basically every horse only gets

00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:30.319
one attempt at it in its career. And the races

00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:34.339
are over five weeks, and I'm not a horse racing

00:19:34.339 --> 00:19:36.180
expert by any stretch of the imagination, but

00:19:36.180 --> 00:19:38.640
I think that it's rare that you run a horse that

00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:42.470
regularly. Yeah. And they're sprints, essentially.

00:19:42.569 --> 00:19:44.589
I mean, the closest you can get to sprints in

00:19:44.589 --> 00:19:48.009
horse racing. They're over two -minute races,

00:19:48.069 --> 00:19:52.309
of course. The Kentucky Derby called the... What

00:19:52.309 --> 00:19:54.430
was it? The greatest two -minute sport. The greatest

00:19:54.430 --> 00:19:56.809
two -minute sport. There we go. I think it's

00:19:56.809 --> 00:20:01.269
the greatest. I'll double -check that. It's a

00:20:01.269 --> 00:20:03.789
fair description either way. But yeah, you can

00:20:03.789 --> 00:20:06.170
get injuries. Obviously, the horse might not

00:20:06.170 --> 00:20:10.789
be ready. uh to run in the first race which would

00:20:10.789 --> 00:20:12.789
completely scupper you but it could be ready

00:20:12.789 --> 00:20:15.349
to run in the you know in the belmont for example

00:20:15.349 --> 00:20:19.349
um there's a lot of variables which would mean

00:20:19.349 --> 00:20:22.789
the horse doesn't run uh in all in all three

00:20:22.789 --> 00:20:25.089
over such a short window there's a lot of traveling

00:20:25.089 --> 00:20:27.589
as well because these race courses yeah america's

00:20:27.589 --> 00:20:29.690
a big place and whilst these race courses might

00:20:29.690 --> 00:20:32.549
appear on a map to look as though they are near

00:20:32.549 --> 00:20:36.029
to one another they are not um that close to

00:20:36.029 --> 00:20:38.250
one america is a very big country i can tell

00:20:38.250 --> 00:20:41.309
you that from personal experience yeah and i

00:20:41.309 --> 00:20:45.109
to illustrate just how difficult it is no philly

00:20:45.109 --> 00:20:47.970
or gelding has ever won the triple count only

00:20:47.970 --> 00:20:52.170
colts and if you want to know what that that

00:20:52.170 --> 00:20:56.470
means triple crown i do i do so the triple the

00:20:56.470 --> 00:20:58.470
triple crown is three -year -old thoroughbreds

00:20:58.470 --> 00:21:00.700
and a thoroughbred is a breed I had to look this

00:21:00.700 --> 00:21:03.539
up, everybody. I'm not this good at horses. Thoroughbreds

00:21:03.539 --> 00:21:05.079
are effectively considered like hot -blooded

00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:07.000
horses that are known for their agility, speed,

00:21:07.059 --> 00:21:08.880
and spirit. They're basically the athletes of

00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:11.339
the horse racing world and the sprinters. And

00:21:11.339 --> 00:21:14.880
a colt is defined as an uncastrated male from

00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:17.700
the age of two up to and including the age of

00:21:17.700 --> 00:21:19.660
four, but obviously in this instance would all

00:21:19.660 --> 00:21:23.660
be three -year -olds. A gelding is a colt, but

00:21:23.660 --> 00:21:28.599
castrated. And a filly... Which is, I should

00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:31.039
point out, that is usually done to control a

00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:33.640
very fiery animal. Yeah, a boisterous animal.

00:21:33.740 --> 00:21:36.920
To calm down a boisterous animal. But the trade

00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:39.680
-off of that is in the short sprint events, if

00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:42.880
you lose a bit of that fire, does it act as a

00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:45.720
disadvantage? So geldings have won individual

00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:48.299
events within the Triple Crown, but as Ben mentioned,

00:21:48.380 --> 00:21:51.279
they've never won all three. Exactly. Only colts.

00:21:51.420 --> 00:21:54.240
And a filly is a female horse under the age of

00:21:54.240 --> 00:22:00.480
four. Yes. And fillies like Geldings, yes, like

00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:03.380
Geldings, have won individual events in the Triple

00:22:03.380 --> 00:22:05.579
Crown, but have never won the Triple Crown. Yes.

00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:08.640
Actually, the history behind how thoroughbreds

00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:11.019
came to be in America is kind of fun. I think

00:22:11.019 --> 00:22:13.400
the first thoroughbred horse that they believe

00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:15.740
to have entered the American colonies, as it

00:22:15.740 --> 00:22:19.140
was back then, was Buell Rock. He was imported

00:22:19.140 --> 00:22:22.119
in 1730 from England to America by a merchant

00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:25.769
mariner named James Patton. at the age of 21.

00:22:25.990 --> 00:22:29.230
And Mr. James Patton. Yeah, here we go, man.

00:22:29.430 --> 00:22:33.710
Here we go. We're going five for five. He was

00:22:33.710 --> 00:22:37.349
distantly related to US General George S. Patton.

00:22:37.390 --> 00:22:39.930
So there you go. I think that's probably as close

00:22:39.930 --> 00:22:42.490
as I'm going to get to World War II in this episode.

00:22:42.650 --> 00:22:45.269
I'm not going into it. So we did it, though.

00:22:45.309 --> 00:22:48.720
We managed to squeeze it in somehow. But yeah,

00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:51.380
Buell Rock was a racehorse himself. And although

00:22:51.380 --> 00:22:53.599
a reasonably average one, he predominantly ran

00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:55.900
at York, which is where you're from in the 18th

00:22:55.900 --> 00:22:57.720
century. Oh, there you go. Which is kind of fun.

00:22:58.200 --> 00:23:02.380
But he was followed to America by Messenger in

00:23:02.380 --> 00:23:06.079
1788. Messenger didn't have a long racing career

00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:09.380
himself. He was a common ancestor. But the reason

00:23:09.380 --> 00:23:11.140
he's famous is he's a common ancestor of many

00:23:11.140 --> 00:23:14.039
successful racehorses that came to be in the

00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:17.259
20th century. Mainly from standard breads rather

00:23:17.259 --> 00:23:21.000
than thoroughbreds though. But yeah, horse racing

00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:24.660
essentially can be sort of traced back to a handful

00:23:24.660 --> 00:23:28.339
of horses. I think one of the most famous ones

00:23:28.339 --> 00:23:31.039
is Diomed, who is named after the ancient Greek

00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:34.359
hero Diomedes, which is kind of fun. Cool. Another

00:23:34.359 --> 00:23:37.400
great horse or great noble horse racing lineage

00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:40.640
moved to America in the late 18th century. It's

00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:42.339
considered one of the best colts ever seen in

00:23:42.339 --> 00:23:44.140
Britain in the 18th century and won the inaugural

00:23:44.140 --> 00:23:49.609
Epson Derby. so we can say derby there yeah he

00:23:49.609 --> 00:23:54.029
then uh he basically became a stud uh and has

00:23:54.029 --> 00:23:56.809
had a significant impact on american racing um

00:23:56.809 --> 00:24:00.970
i think it started with his son sir archie um

00:24:00.970 --> 00:24:04.250
john f wall a racing historian said that sir

00:24:04.250 --> 00:24:07.289
archie was the first outstanding stallion that

00:24:07.289 --> 00:24:09.769
they can claim as a native american thoroughbred

00:24:09.769 --> 00:24:13.509
um And he was actually retired from the racetrack

00:24:13.509 --> 00:24:16.269
because of a lack of opponents. That's how good

00:24:16.269 --> 00:24:20.509
he was. I mean, the history of breeding in thoroughbreds

00:24:20.509 --> 00:24:23.009
is, I mean, you have to be a bit of a nerd, but

00:24:23.009 --> 00:24:26.970
pretty fascinating to begin with. And you can

00:24:26.970 --> 00:24:30.470
trace ancestry back as you can with most pedigrees

00:24:30.470 --> 00:24:34.140
and animals for an awful long way. and two common

00:24:34.140 --> 00:24:37.640
ancestors as well same as in British thoroughbred

00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:39.079
racing where you can trace it back essentially

00:24:39.079 --> 00:24:42.880
to three horses in the 17th century I believe

00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:45.319
which I imagine these will trace back to too

00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:47.039
because being thoroughbreds they're probably

00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:49.559
related to the same common ancestors but yeah

00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:52.170
if you're into that sort of thing genealogists

00:24:52.170 --> 00:24:54.309
throwing you a bone yeah it is very interesting

00:24:54.309 --> 00:24:56.930
well it's also relevant because you know we've

00:24:56.930 --> 00:24:58.829
just lifted off like three or four horses there

00:24:58.829 --> 00:25:00.930
that came over from england but it's basically

00:25:00.930 --> 00:25:03.509
after the american revolution the center of thoroughbred

00:25:03.509 --> 00:25:06.109
breeding and therefore by extension racing in

00:25:06.109 --> 00:25:09.730
the united states just moved west um because

00:25:09.730 --> 00:25:13.579
it was obviously uh east in in the first instance

00:25:13.579 --> 00:25:15.980
because for obvious reasons it's just slowly

00:25:15.980 --> 00:25:18.680
move west and that's where the land is that's

00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:21.079
where the space is yeah and good conditions to

00:25:21.079 --> 00:25:23.619
race horses and as you'll probably find out on

00:25:23.619 --> 00:25:25.880
your upcoming holiday kentucky and tennessee

00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:27.779
just basically became the epicenter of american

00:25:27.779 --> 00:25:31.680
horse breeding and racing you get give me this

00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:33.180
is giving me a lot of context for my upcoming

00:25:33.180 --> 00:25:36.160
holiday i'm actually quite excited by it my wife's

00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:39.170
gonna get annoyed with me saying oh What breed

00:25:39.170 --> 00:25:40.710
do you reckon that horse is? Do you reckon that's

00:25:40.710 --> 00:25:43.690
a thoroughbred? Well, they're massive and muscular,

00:25:43.849 --> 00:25:46.869
so. Yeah, I'm sure I'll spot them. But yeah,

00:25:46.910 --> 00:25:49.009
I mean, obviously, and that's how you come full

00:25:49.009 --> 00:25:51.470
circle to effectively the Kentucky Derby is because,

00:25:51.569 --> 00:25:55.809
yeah, that became the very center of American

00:25:55.809 --> 00:25:58.430
horse racing after those particular horses were

00:25:58.430 --> 00:26:01.430
brought over. Fun little tangent. That's very

00:26:01.430 --> 00:26:03.569
interesting. Shall we start off with the Kentucky

00:26:03.569 --> 00:26:07.150
Derby then? A bit of information behind the jewel

00:26:07.150 --> 00:26:09.829
in the crown of the three races, as far as we're

00:26:09.829 --> 00:26:13.529
concerned anyway. Yeah, might as well. It seems

00:26:13.529 --> 00:26:16.150
a sensible place to start chronologically, given

00:26:16.150 --> 00:26:19.190
that it's coming up. It's also this coming weekend,

00:26:19.329 --> 00:26:22.170
so yes, it makes sense. So yeah, as Ben mentioned,

00:26:22.210 --> 00:26:25.470
it's a Grade 1 stakes race run at Churchill Downs

00:26:25.470 --> 00:26:27.750
in Louisville, Kentucky, which I think I'm going

00:26:27.750 --> 00:26:31.230
to. I'm excited about. it's 20 horses and they're

00:26:31.230 --> 00:26:34.269
all three -year -olds as mentioned uh which obviously

00:26:34.269 --> 00:26:36.609
means you can't win it twice it's only for three

00:26:36.609 --> 00:26:39.250
-year -olds um so in your three -year -old seasons

00:26:39.250 --> 00:26:41.789
that means if you're free on january the first

00:26:41.789 --> 00:26:43.890
i believe so some of them may technically be

00:26:43.890 --> 00:26:45.269
four years old but it's their three -year -old

00:26:45.269 --> 00:26:49.509
season and it's run over a distance of one and

00:26:49.509 --> 00:26:53.049
a quarter miles or 10 furlongs about 2000 meters

00:26:54.349 --> 00:26:57.390
So Colton Gilding's carry 126 pounds and Philly's

00:26:57.390 --> 00:27:01.430
121 pounds. So it's a set weight they carry.

00:27:01.650 --> 00:27:05.910
Yeah, 57 kilos and 55 kilos if you prefer the

00:27:05.910 --> 00:27:09.069
metric system. Which, yeah, throw a bone to our

00:27:09.069 --> 00:27:11.170
Canadian listeners there. Some kilograms for

00:27:11.170 --> 00:27:14.430
you. I think Canada's actually the same in the

00:27:14.430 --> 00:27:17.230
UK. We just make it up as we go along. Pounds,

00:27:17.230 --> 00:27:19.930
stones, kilograms. Yeah, miles. We know it all.

00:27:21.100 --> 00:27:25.420
yeah miles furlongs apparently i think we said

00:27:25.420 --> 00:27:27.720
earlier didn't we race was first run in 1875

00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:31.539
yeah unlike the others um older races the triple

00:27:31.539 --> 00:27:34.319
crown in the triple crown rather it's been run

00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:37.819
every year since its inception it was twice rescheduled

00:27:37.819 --> 00:27:39.920
within the same year though first time during

00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:45.420
world war ii 1945 normally a good excuse Second

00:27:45.420 --> 00:27:48.819
time due to, as it's becoming a reoccurring theme

00:27:48.819 --> 00:27:51.660
with these. We should just say for the usual

00:27:51.660 --> 00:27:56.460
reasons, yes. COVID -19. Yeah. Rearranged, but

00:27:56.460 --> 00:28:00.119
not cancelled. Yeah, exactly. Not cancelled.

00:28:00.140 --> 00:28:03.359
So it's gone every year. The Derby and the Oaks.

00:28:03.539 --> 00:28:07.059
The Oaks is the Derby, rather, a sister race.

00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:10.539
They're the oldest major sporting events in the

00:28:10.539 --> 00:28:12.680
US that have been held annually since their beginning.

00:28:13.420 --> 00:28:16.269
Nice. I think that's a pretty cool stat, actually.

00:28:16.509 --> 00:28:20.410
That is a cool stat, yeah. And among Thoroughbred

00:28:20.410 --> 00:28:22.349
Stakes races, they are the oldest that have been

00:28:22.349 --> 00:28:25.410
held annually on the same track every year, because

00:28:25.410 --> 00:28:28.789
we won't go into all the nuances of it, but basically

00:28:28.789 --> 00:28:30.349
the Belmont and the Preakness have changed venue

00:28:30.349 --> 00:28:33.269
a few times. Nice. Yeah, which is kind of fun.

00:28:33.990 --> 00:28:36.630
Yeah, it's the most watched and most attended

00:28:36.630 --> 00:28:38.589
horse race in the United States, unsurprisingly.

00:28:39.259 --> 00:28:42.400
And it will be the 151st running, we hope, because

00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:45.440
we got that wrong before, on Saturday, 3rd of

00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:49.559
May, 2025. Yeah. This coming Saturday. So a lot

00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:52.680
of history, steeped in history. And it came about

00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:56.720
after Colonel Meriwether Lewis Clark Jr., grandson

00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:59.380
of... Which is an incredibly famous name in American

00:28:59.380 --> 00:29:01.539
history. I mean, obviously, I know this is the

00:29:01.539 --> 00:29:04.869
grandson of, but Meriwether Lewis Clark. Junior

00:29:04.869 --> 00:29:09.230
is just an amalgamation of a couple of very famous

00:29:09.230 --> 00:29:11.670
people in American history. Lewis and Clark,

00:29:11.869 --> 00:29:15.829
specifically. Nice. Who are they? William Clark

00:29:15.829 --> 00:29:19.799
and Meriwether Lewis. I genuinely didn't know

00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:21.500
that. I didn't know the Lewis and Clark connection.

00:29:21.700 --> 00:29:24.059
So Lewis and Clark were two explorers at the

00:29:24.059 --> 00:29:26.779
start of the 19th century as America was expanding.

00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:30.079
I think whoever the president was then, I want

00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:32.500
to say Thomas Jefferson, basically chartered

00:29:32.500 --> 00:29:36.619
them to explore the Missouri River and try and

00:29:36.619 --> 00:29:38.160
find the continental divide. So they basically

00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:40.880
traveled down the Missouri River with their crew,

00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:43.000
I don't want to say crew, with their team on

00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:46.339
the expedition and discovered a whole load of

00:29:46.339 --> 00:29:49.779
America that had been... very minimally explored

00:29:49.779 --> 00:29:52.779
by Western people before, and in doing so, obviously

00:29:52.779 --> 00:29:55.000
met a lot of the native population along the

00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:57.400
way. Man, it's mad that you even knew that. I

00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:00.440
read a book on it. Oh, okay. It comes as no surprise

00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:02.519
to you, yeah. Yeah, I should have known. It's

00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:05.480
a very interesting story. I would recommend anyone

00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:08.779
into their pure history delving into it. There's

00:30:08.779 --> 00:30:11.619
a very good book on it, which, again, I should

00:30:11.619 --> 00:30:13.980
have got information about. This is the book

00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:16.059
I... Yeah, but I blindsided you with the reference,

00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:18.690
mate, so... You did. You can't be criticized

00:30:18.690 --> 00:30:19.730
for not being prepared for that. Well, you didn't

00:30:19.730 --> 00:30:21.549
blindside me. You sent me the notes in advance.

00:30:23.430 --> 00:30:27.930
Well, nonetheless, I didn't expect you to necessarily

00:30:27.930 --> 00:30:31.509
have to hand your references for Missouri River

00:30:31.509 --> 00:30:35.990
expeditions. Indeed. William Clark, so his grandson,

00:30:36.210 --> 00:30:40.029
this man who is named after an amalgamation of

00:30:40.029 --> 00:30:43.230
very famous Americans. Well, his grandson, he

00:30:43.230 --> 00:30:45.769
basically traveled to England in 1872 and he

00:30:45.769 --> 00:30:49.059
visited. Epson in Surrey, where the Derby had

00:30:49.059 --> 00:30:52.819
been running annually since 1780, as I think

00:30:52.819 --> 00:30:55.059
we previously mentioned on our national podcast

00:30:55.059 --> 00:30:59.000
episode. Indeed. From there, he went over to

00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:03.680
Paris in France. He met a group of racing enthusiasts

00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:06.619
who had formed the French Jockey Club in 1863.

00:31:07.299 --> 00:31:10.880
They had organized a Grand Prix de Paris at Longchamp,

00:31:10.980 --> 00:31:15.640
which is also a very famous horse race. Yeah.

00:31:15.950 --> 00:31:18.089
greatest race in France, in fact, I think it

00:31:18.089 --> 00:31:20.690
is coined as. And when he returned home to Kentucky,

00:31:20.789 --> 00:31:23.410
inspired by his European adventure, he organized

00:31:23.410 --> 00:31:26.809
the Louisville Jockey Club to raise money for

00:31:26.809 --> 00:31:29.730
building quality racing facilities just outside

00:31:29.730 --> 00:31:33.329
the city. And he was successful in raising that

00:31:33.329 --> 00:31:36.450
money, built a track, which would soon become

00:31:36.450 --> 00:31:38.730
known as the Churchill Downs, which was named

00:31:38.730 --> 00:31:41.809
after John and Henry Churchill, who provided

00:31:41.809 --> 00:31:45.049
the land for the racetrack. Fair enough. Yeah.

00:31:46.009 --> 00:31:48.009
That's the way these things go, isn't it, historically?

00:31:48.650 --> 00:31:51.650
And naming went officially. Sorry, the naming

00:31:51.650 --> 00:31:57.230
went official in 1937. So, yeah. That's pretty

00:31:57.230 --> 00:32:00.170
cool, though. Pretty cool link. I mean, the historical

00:32:00.170 --> 00:32:02.289
links are everywhere, though. I mean, like the

00:32:02.289 --> 00:32:06.430
Kentucky Derby at its inception was a mile and

00:32:06.430 --> 00:32:09.750
a half. So the same distance as the Epson Derby,

00:32:09.829 --> 00:32:12.089
which makes sense because it was inspired by.

00:32:12.769 --> 00:32:16.210
or based upon, but it changed lengths in 1896

00:32:16.210 --> 00:32:18.910
to its current distance of one and a quarter

00:32:18.910 --> 00:32:21.950
miles. I'm not really sure the reasons for that,

00:32:22.009 --> 00:32:24.589
but it doesn't really matter. We're talking the

00:32:24.589 --> 00:32:26.829
difference between a quarter of a mile. It's

00:32:26.829 --> 00:32:32.109
a sprint. Yeah. I've got a second World War II

00:32:32.109 --> 00:32:34.650
reference, actually, to slip in here. Go on.

00:32:34.750 --> 00:32:38.109
And a reference to our personal favourite television

00:32:38.109 --> 00:32:40.829
series, probably ever, but certainly about the

00:32:40.829 --> 00:32:43.480
Second World War. The book was called Undaunted

00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:46.900
Courage by Stephen E. Ambrose. Stephen E. Ambrose

00:32:46.900 --> 00:32:49.799
also wrote the book Band of Brothers, of which

00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:53.299
the TV series is based. That is very cool. That's

00:32:53.299 --> 00:32:56.880
a nice little segue. I think that's probably

00:32:56.880 --> 00:32:59.559
why I read it, because I probably bounced off

00:32:59.559 --> 00:33:01.279
Band of Brothers straight onto it by him. But

00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:02.880
yeah, it's interesting. It's an interesting story,

00:33:02.920 --> 00:33:06.000
interesting book. We digress. We do digress,

00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:09.319
yeah. We like to digress, though. That's all

00:33:09.319 --> 00:33:13.509
part and parcel of it. Sorry, where did I get

00:33:13.509 --> 00:33:14.650
to? I was just giving a little bit of history,

00:33:14.849 --> 00:33:19.250
wasn't I? So May 17th, 1875 was the first Kentucky

00:33:19.250 --> 00:33:22.410
Derby. Ran in front of an estimated crowd of

00:33:22.410 --> 00:33:24.650
10 ,000 people. I presume estimated because people

00:33:24.650 --> 00:33:27.829
probably weren't doing the turnstiles the way

00:33:27.829 --> 00:33:30.509
they do in this day and age. Often the case.

00:33:30.670 --> 00:33:34.430
Yeah. A field of 15 three -year -old horses contested

00:33:34.430 --> 00:33:38.710
it. And a colt named Aristides won the inaugural

00:33:38.710 --> 00:33:41.869
derby, or derby as I should. Remind myself to

00:33:41.869 --> 00:33:45.410
say. Sounds like another Greek name, that. Yeah,

00:33:45.410 --> 00:33:48.230
yeah. It's a theme there, isn't there? He later

00:33:48.230 --> 00:33:51.509
also came second in the Belmont Stakes, but obviously

00:33:51.509 --> 00:33:54.349
the Triple Crown didn't exist back then. Wouldn't

00:33:54.349 --> 00:33:57.289
surprise me if the horse Aristides, sounding

00:33:57.289 --> 00:34:00.349
like Greek origin, probably was related to Diomed.

00:34:00.930 --> 00:34:03.730
I would bet on that, as we mentioned previously.

00:34:03.930 --> 00:34:06.289
That would be cool, but I haven't done the family

00:34:06.289 --> 00:34:10.340
tree. See if I sound smart after this. It's rare

00:34:10.340 --> 00:34:13.679
that you don't. And it's been on the radio since

00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:18.119
1925. It's been on TV since 1949. And it's been

00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:20.940
on national TV. It's been on national TV since

00:34:20.940 --> 00:34:26.760
1952. So it's a pretty big deal. So big a deal,

00:34:26.820 --> 00:34:29.860
in fact, that the purse for the Derby is $5 million.

00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:34.420
Solid. Which is a decent amount of cash, but

00:34:34.420 --> 00:34:37.659
not as much as is bet on it. And this is, I think,

00:34:37.659 --> 00:34:42.050
is absolutely insane. 210 million pounds a million

00:34:42.050 --> 00:34:44.809
dollars sorry which what does that work out probably

00:34:44.809 --> 00:34:48.050
about 170 million pounds somewhere around there

00:34:48.050 --> 00:34:50.929
yeah off the top of my head is bet on it or was

00:34:50.929 --> 00:34:54.550
bet on it uh in last year or its highest maybe

00:34:54.550 --> 00:34:57.389
its highest um probably probably go up this year

00:34:57.389 --> 00:34:59.590
yeah but i mean that's like it's a two minute

00:34:59.590 --> 00:35:05.869
race it is yeah absolutely wild but uh people

00:35:05.869 --> 00:35:08.500
like it and they're prepared to bet on it And

00:35:08.500 --> 00:35:10.780
like the Grand National, it's an institution,

00:35:10.940 --> 00:35:12.800
it's cultural, so of course they do. It's probably

00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:15.659
exactly the same philosophy as over here, which

00:35:15.659 --> 00:35:16.960
is it doesn't really matter if you like horse

00:35:16.960 --> 00:35:20.639
racing. You watch the derby and you throw a couple

00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:23.940
of quid on it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, as we mentioned

00:35:23.940 --> 00:35:27.420
in our episode on the National, there's people

00:35:27.420 --> 00:35:30.500
who don't probably even notice that horse racing

00:35:30.500 --> 00:35:32.800
exists the rest of the year who will tune in

00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:36.250
every... yeah as a family even perhaps to to

00:35:36.250 --> 00:35:38.090
watch the national and maybe even put a bet on

00:35:38.090 --> 00:35:44.150
it so yeah traditions yeah uh records interested

00:35:44.150 --> 00:35:48.269
in any always so the course record i think this

00:35:48.269 --> 00:35:51.670
is if we earlier on we touched on secretariat

00:35:51.670 --> 00:35:52.769
and we said that we were going to come back to

00:35:52.769 --> 00:35:53.769
him and the reason we're going to come back to

00:35:53.769 --> 00:35:58.110
him is as we said he is just a ridiculous horse

00:35:58.110 --> 00:36:02.639
and i think this There is no statistic or record

00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:05.739
that better sums up how damn fast this horse

00:36:05.739 --> 00:36:09.460
was. Yeah. So the course record at the Kentucky

00:36:09.460 --> 00:36:12.559
Derby is held by Secretariat, the great Secretariat.

00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:16.300
Unsurprisingly. Yeah, who in 1973 posted a time

00:36:16.300 --> 00:36:19.900
of 1 minute 59 .4. He's like one of three horses

00:36:19.900 --> 00:36:23.619
to run sub two minutes. Secretariat in 1973.

00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:28.440
Monarchos in 2001. And then this is so like,

00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:30.880
I don't know, I like this stat, but it also breaks

00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:33.460
my heart a little bit. And Sham, who finished

00:36:33.460 --> 00:36:37.440
second to Secretariat in 73, also ran sub two

00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:39.300
minutes. So basically would have won. Yeah, 1973

00:36:39.300 --> 00:36:41.840
is probably the greatest. I mean, it is almost

00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:44.199
certainly the greatest event in history. You

00:36:44.199 --> 00:36:46.099
can obviously still see the footage of it. It's

00:36:46.099 --> 00:36:49.900
very, very fun. Yeah. It's incredible. Two incredible

00:36:49.900 --> 00:36:53.199
horses, clearly. And you'd think that me just

00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:55.559
talking about the sub two minute finish is what

00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:57.239
I was talking about in terms of the statistic

00:36:57.239 --> 00:36:59.239
that's remarkable and illustrates Secretariat's

00:36:59.239 --> 00:37:02.000
dominance. And it isn't. The thing that's absolutely

00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:04.199
insane is that Secretariat did something that's

00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:08.780
unique and frankly crazy, not just in like horse

00:37:08.780 --> 00:37:10.900
racing terms, not just in terms of triple crown

00:37:10.900 --> 00:37:13.639
races, but like in terms of any kind of athletic

00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:17.730
performance. Secretariat ran each successive

00:37:17.730 --> 00:37:21.010
quarter of the race faster than the last. So

00:37:21.010 --> 00:37:23.909
basically the horse ran negative splits. It got

00:37:23.909 --> 00:37:26.610
faster as the race went on, which anyone who

00:37:26.610 --> 00:37:29.789
knows anything about running just doesn't happen.

00:37:30.090 --> 00:37:32.250
That's incredible. To try and illustrate this

00:37:32.250 --> 00:37:34.670
point, if you're watching the 100 meters and

00:37:34.670 --> 00:37:36.710
you see someone pulling away at the end of the

00:37:36.710 --> 00:37:38.809
100 meters, you could be forgiven for thinking

00:37:38.809 --> 00:37:40.809
that that person is accelerating away from the

00:37:40.809 --> 00:37:42.489
rest of the field. And in actual fact, what is

00:37:42.489 --> 00:37:45.429
happening is they are decelerating slower. so

00:37:45.429 --> 00:37:47.510
so everybody else is slowing down quicker than

00:37:47.510 --> 00:37:49.769
the winner so then the winner pulls away and

00:37:49.769 --> 00:37:55.030
so running negative splits over like that distance

00:37:55.030 --> 00:38:01.190
in a sprint is just stupid it's crazy yeah what

00:38:01.190 --> 00:38:04.010
a horse and in terms of like if you were to try

00:38:04.010 --> 00:38:06.010
and translate into a race because using 100 meters

00:38:06.010 --> 00:38:09.530
there to illustrate that that performance um

00:38:09.530 --> 00:38:11.570
it's probably a bad one because the 100 meters

00:38:11.570 --> 00:38:14.110
are so short it's kind of like running negative

00:38:14.110 --> 00:38:17.289
splits in the 800 meters like just getting faster

00:38:17.289 --> 00:38:19.690
and faster as the 800 meters goes on yeah which

00:38:19.690 --> 00:38:22.949
is like no one does right maybe people run the

00:38:22.949 --> 00:38:25.269
last 200 meters faster because they saved a bit

00:38:25.269 --> 00:38:28.730
for a kick but it's like speeding up in the 800

00:38:28.730 --> 00:38:31.769
meters until the finish and the 800 meters is

00:38:31.769 --> 00:38:35.710
a barbaric event so yeah um people don't run

00:38:35.710 --> 00:38:38.070
negative splits probably a bad comparison really

00:38:38.070 --> 00:38:41.349
yeah it's just anyway i just love that stat i

00:38:41.349 --> 00:38:44.440
just think it's really really cool And I like,

00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:47.000
I've noticed or I've realized this about me,

00:38:47.019 --> 00:38:49.659
Jack, which I don't think I really appreciate

00:38:49.659 --> 00:38:51.539
it before we start this podcast. I love horse

00:38:51.539 --> 00:38:54.659
racing because I love the horses. Like these

00:38:54.659 --> 00:38:58.820
statistics about the horses are just like, I

00:38:58.820 --> 00:39:01.440
don't know. It's so pure because the horse doesn't

00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:03.360
know what it's doing. It's just running for the

00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:06.000
love of the game. It's obviously trained to win

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:08.219
an inch of its life and that's fine. Like, of

00:39:08.219 --> 00:39:11.079
course it is because it's an elite level animal

00:39:11.079 --> 00:39:13.619
and athlete. It just isn't aware of that. But

00:39:13.619 --> 00:39:15.780
I just love the fact that they do these insane,

00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:18.320
remarkable things and they're not doing it for

00:39:18.320 --> 00:39:20.320
the accolades, the money or anything like that.

00:39:20.380 --> 00:39:21.880
They're just doing it because the horse loves

00:39:21.880 --> 00:39:24.820
running. So like when you see... No, I mean,

00:39:24.860 --> 00:39:27.340
it'd be hard to accuse a horse of having an ego.

00:39:28.179 --> 00:39:31.579
Exactly. Do you know what I mean? Like, oh man,

00:39:31.719 --> 00:39:33.519
I just, I think it's, I think it's really romantic.

00:39:33.900 --> 00:39:36.719
I think it's really... It is, yeah. And I do

00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:39.300
understand why people love horses so much and

00:39:39.300 --> 00:39:42.400
the sport of horse racing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

00:39:42.420 --> 00:39:44.639
I mean, I know we've delved into the morality

00:39:44.639 --> 00:39:48.360
of it previously, but at its core, I don't think

00:39:48.360 --> 00:39:51.699
anyone could deny the beauty of it and the majesty

00:39:51.699 --> 00:39:54.940
of horse racing. Certainly of the animals themselves.

00:39:55.320 --> 00:39:57.860
Yeah, exactly. Maybe the treatment and all that

00:39:57.860 --> 00:40:01.639
stuff that goes around the edges. And there is

00:40:01.639 --> 00:40:03.840
plenty of that. Yeah. Historically, certainly.

00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:07.019
And that's up for debate. And good, healthy debate

00:40:07.019 --> 00:40:08.559
is a positive thing because it enacts change,

00:40:08.579 --> 00:40:11.059
as we've said. But like, Jesus, man. Like, I

00:40:11.059 --> 00:40:14.840
love the horses. I think they're so cool. Anyway,

00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:19.199
I've gone very deep there. I guess to get us

00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:21.019
back on track, I should just tell you that the

00:40:21.019 --> 00:40:24.079
longest odds to ever win the derby are 91 to

00:40:24.079 --> 00:40:29.460
1. Well, we're covered. Yeah. 1913 by, I think

00:40:29.460 --> 00:40:32.539
it's pronounced Donrail, but it could be getting

00:40:32.539 --> 00:40:34.820
that wrong. I'll take your word for it. Yeah.

00:40:34.860 --> 00:40:37.380
And the second highest odds occurred in 2022

00:40:37.380 --> 00:40:41.300
when Rich Strike, who if anyone hasn't seen Google,

00:40:41.300 --> 00:40:45.099
like Google, YouTube it, it's very fun. He went

00:40:45.099 --> 00:40:48.619
off at 80 to one and won the race. Yeah. Yeah.

00:40:49.619 --> 00:40:52.940
That's an incredible one. Yeah. It's got a load

00:40:52.940 --> 00:40:55.380
of traditions as well, like a lot of American

00:40:55.380 --> 00:40:57.420
sports, like we touched on with the Masters,

00:40:57.579 --> 00:41:00.880
for example. A lot of food and drink related

00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:03.559
traditions. Yeah, it's weird, isn't it? Which

00:41:03.559 --> 00:41:05.639
are some of the best traditions, if you ask me.

00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:09.179
Yeah. Do you want to cover any of them? Any particular

00:41:09.179 --> 00:41:11.840
favorites or ones that you want to mention? Well,

00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:14.940
I didn't actually know this until we started

00:41:14.940 --> 00:41:18.039
doing this research, but the mint julep is a

00:41:18.039 --> 00:41:20.239
tradition associated with the event, which is...

00:41:20.809 --> 00:41:23.210
An ice drink consisting of bourbon, mint and

00:41:23.210 --> 00:41:25.570
sugar syrup. The traditional beverage of the

00:41:25.570 --> 00:41:27.550
race and I've actually had a mint julep before

00:41:27.550 --> 00:41:29.349
and they are very tasty. I was going to say that

00:41:29.349 --> 00:41:32.769
sounds nice. Yeah, sounds good. It's just very

00:41:32.769 --> 00:41:36.150
refreshing. It is obviously quite a warm place,

00:41:36.210 --> 00:41:39.090
Kentucky, even in May. So I think a refreshing

00:41:39.090 --> 00:41:41.849
drink like that over some ice. Very nice indeed.

00:41:42.090 --> 00:41:45.170
You can see why it's popular. On a probably slightly

00:41:45.170 --> 00:41:49.900
less appropriate for hot weather, a burgoo. which

00:41:49.900 --> 00:41:53.000
is a fixed stew of beef, chicken, pork, and vegetables,

00:41:53.139 --> 00:41:55.679
which apparently is a popular Kentucky dish served

00:41:55.679 --> 00:41:58.219
at the Derby. Nice. There you go. That's a weird

00:41:58.219 --> 00:42:01.500
juxtaposition, though, in terms of drink to culinary

00:42:01.500 --> 00:42:05.039
experience. It's not what I put together. I'm

00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:06.739
not sure the pairing is one I necessarily go

00:42:06.739 --> 00:42:09.980
for, but I'm not a culinary expert, so what do

00:42:09.980 --> 00:42:11.940
I know? Do you want to wash your stew down with

00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:17.989
a bourbon? Have a nice mint julep. um yeah there

00:42:17.989 --> 00:42:20.769
you go maybe maybe there's uh maybe the two things

00:42:20.769 --> 00:42:22.289
are designed for different parts of the track

00:42:22.289 --> 00:42:25.170
maybe there's some uh the hoi polloi maybe like

00:42:25.170 --> 00:42:28.050
the stew sat in the the infield which is an area

00:42:28.050 --> 00:42:31.070
uh with virtually no view of the race and then

00:42:31.070 --> 00:42:32.829
there's the uh millionaire's row as they call

00:42:32.829 --> 00:42:34.730
it where perhaps there's more mint juleps going

00:42:34.730 --> 00:42:37.769
which is the seats uh along the finish line uh

00:42:37.769 --> 00:42:40.429
different parts of the track yeah nice well there's

00:42:40.429 --> 00:42:42.969
a party isn't there in the infield i think there's

00:42:42.969 --> 00:42:47.150
a bit of a Like a shindig, so to speak. Oh, is

00:42:47.150 --> 00:42:51.730
that the infield? Yeah, I think so. But also...

00:42:51.730 --> 00:42:53.489
You can't actually see the race. No, yeah, well,

00:42:53.550 --> 00:42:55.730
exactly. It's like sort of probably because of...

00:42:55.730 --> 00:42:58.449
Just busy dancing and eating their stew. It's

00:42:58.449 --> 00:43:00.469
not unlike British horse racing, though. There's

00:43:00.469 --> 00:43:03.150
definitely parts of the race course you can go

00:43:03.150 --> 00:43:04.909
to where basically people are just getting pissed.

00:43:05.610 --> 00:43:10.199
Most of Aintree, in my experience. uh what else

00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:12.519
what else do they like to do traditionally at

00:43:12.519 --> 00:43:15.480
the derby i think they they love a song they

00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:18.420
do yeah the famous um which we have heard already

00:43:18.420 --> 00:43:21.059
the call to the post played on bugle um and they

00:43:21.059 --> 00:43:24.679
actually have a a dedicated chap who attends

00:43:24.679 --> 00:43:26.880
every event and plays that called steve buttleman

00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:29.960
um as the horses parade before the grandstands

00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:32.159
he plays his call to the post on the bugle which

00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:33.920
you'd have heard at the beginning of this and

00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:38.239
i think anyone who's heard any horse racing jingle

00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:42.159
probably recognizes uh call to the post oh nice

00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:45.139
and then they also play my old kentucky home

00:43:45.139 --> 00:43:49.500
i think nice a tradition that began in 1921 the

00:43:49.500 --> 00:43:52.179
university of louisville cardinal marching band

00:43:52.179 --> 00:43:54.900
plays that yeah my old kentucky home but we love

00:43:54.900 --> 00:43:57.320
a song over here don't we as well so we we can

00:43:57.630 --> 00:43:59.530
We're going to do the FA Cup final very shortly

00:43:59.530 --> 00:44:01.909
in a couple of weeks ahead of the two FA Cup

00:44:01.909 --> 00:44:05.250
finals, men's and women's. And we have our own

00:44:05.250 --> 00:44:07.590
singing traditions there. So who are we to judge?

00:44:07.750 --> 00:44:10.510
Yeah, abide with me. Not that we're judging at

00:44:10.510 --> 00:44:14.710
all. We love it. We do love it. Yeah, we'll talk

00:44:14.710 --> 00:44:17.469
about abide with me. Obviously, they sing the

00:44:17.469 --> 00:44:21.170
national anthem. They're in America. But we do

00:44:21.170 --> 00:44:24.170
too before the FA Cup final. Yeah, but the FA

00:44:24.170 --> 00:44:27.539
Cup final. Oh, okay. So it's okay before the

00:44:27.539 --> 00:44:29.679
FA Cup. Oh, I see. Yeah. No, I meant that if

00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:30.860
you're in America, it doesn't matter. British

00:44:30.860 --> 00:44:34.139
exceptionalism on show here. Oh, God, man. All

00:44:34.139 --> 00:44:36.179
I was trying to illustrate is that the Americans

00:44:36.179 --> 00:44:37.960
love their national anthem and will sing it at

00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:40.800
any given opportunity. I'm not criticizing. Well,

00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:43.199
half of us hate our national anthem but sing

00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:45.559
it anyway. That's the distinction I was touching

00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:51.300
upon. But yeah, anyway, I sounded perhaps a bit

00:44:51.300 --> 00:44:53.539
of a dick then. But yeah, all I really meant

00:44:53.539 --> 00:44:55.840
was America. Of course they sing the National

00:44:55.840 --> 00:44:58.300
Anthem. We're five episodes in. We're used to

00:44:58.300 --> 00:45:04.239
you by now, Ben. Yeah, true. Flowers. Flowers?

00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:07.599
Yeah. It's very like the Masters, this. It is,

00:45:07.619 --> 00:45:10.619
actually. Drinks, food, flowers. Yeah, a lot

00:45:10.619 --> 00:45:13.739
of similarities. Traditional traditions. Although

00:45:13.739 --> 00:45:15.260
they don't sing the National Anthem at the Masters,

00:45:15.340 --> 00:45:18.530
so I've just disproved my own theory. I bet they

00:45:18.530 --> 00:45:23.130
do at some point. Yeah, that's true. But as we

00:45:23.130 --> 00:45:25.050
found out with the Masters, the people who run

00:45:25.050 --> 00:45:27.070
Augusta National consider themselves above the

00:45:27.070 --> 00:45:29.570
president anyway. So maybe they consider themselves

00:45:29.570 --> 00:45:31.449
above the country too. I was going to say, I

00:45:31.449 --> 00:45:33.090
think they consider themselves historically above

00:45:33.090 --> 00:45:36.590
everyone. Although, you know, to their credit,

00:45:36.650 --> 00:45:40.389
they are evolving. Slowly. Yeah. So flowers.

00:45:40.889 --> 00:45:44.210
A rose blanket is awarded to the Kentucky Derby

00:45:44.210 --> 00:45:49.869
winner. A lush blanket of 554 red roses. Precisely,

00:45:49.869 --> 00:45:53.829
554. Yeah, I think so. I think that's a thing.

00:45:54.090 --> 00:45:57.969
Started in 1896, but they think it originated

00:45:57.969 --> 00:46:01.949
from 1883 when a socialite presented ladies at

00:46:01.949 --> 00:46:05.710
the post -Darby party with roses. And somehow

00:46:05.710 --> 00:46:08.409
that transitioned into draping the horse in them.

00:46:08.670 --> 00:46:12.150
So there we are. And there's a traditional command.

00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:14.860
From the paddock judge for the jockeys to mount

00:46:14.860 --> 00:46:16.820
their horses in advance of the upcoming race.

00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:18.800
Do you want to recite it? I think it was in the

00:46:18.800 --> 00:46:24.360
intro. Bear with me. I was clicking on my other

00:46:24.360 --> 00:46:29.139
notes. Riders up, I believe, is a traditional

00:46:29.139 --> 00:46:31.920
command from the paddock judge for jockeys to

00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:33.579
mount their horses in advance of the upcoming

00:46:33.579 --> 00:46:36.219
race. See how slick and smooth and professional

00:46:36.219 --> 00:46:39.739
we are as a duo. Well, you know, we fly by the

00:46:39.739 --> 00:46:44.650
seat of our pants. It is. Since 2012, at least,

00:46:44.730 --> 00:46:47.369
the Grand Marshal recites this, which is another

00:46:47.369 --> 00:46:49.750
tradition. So we've seamlessly transitioned there.

00:46:49.809 --> 00:46:53.429
See, we are becoming better at this. It's been

00:46:53.429 --> 00:46:55.809
very seamless so far, this. Yeah. And the Grand

00:46:55.809 --> 00:46:58.170
Marshal is just a celebrity, for want of a better

00:46:58.170 --> 00:47:01.269
phrase. Oh, cool. I'm sure we could find out

00:47:01.269 --> 00:47:04.570
who have been Grand Marshals in the past if we

00:47:04.570 --> 00:47:06.690
wanted to. But it's just basically a bit like

00:47:06.690 --> 00:47:08.710
the first pitch in baseball. You just come out.

00:47:08.730 --> 00:47:11.070
You say, riders up. Jockeys get on their horses.

00:47:12.159 --> 00:47:14.440
yeah that's fun and the whole thing is part of

00:47:14.440 --> 00:47:19.599
the kentucky derby festival nice yeah they have

00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:22.440
like a build -up basically to the race as you

00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:24.619
might imagine uh it's quite long i think it lasts

00:47:24.619 --> 00:47:28.840
about a week no sorry i think i'm i'm just correcting

00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:31.719
myself the festivities start in earnest two weeks

00:47:31.719 --> 00:47:34.179
before the derby so there's a real build -up

00:47:34.179 --> 00:47:36.519
considering it's a two -minute race uh and i

00:47:36.519 --> 00:47:38.260
think this is fun they have an air show called

00:47:38.260 --> 00:47:40.559
the thunder over louisville uh where there's

00:47:40.889 --> 00:47:43.210
basically an air show and fireworks display which

00:47:43.210 --> 00:47:46.349
is good oh very nice yeah so it's pretty cool

00:47:46.349 --> 00:47:49.590
a lot going on at the derby i mean did is it

00:47:49.590 --> 00:47:52.590
worth touching on the stadium i think quickly

00:47:52.590 --> 00:47:55.349
i mean it's a it's a big old stadium 170 000

00:47:55.349 --> 00:47:58.889
people uh most most significant feature is the

00:47:58.889 --> 00:48:01.750
oval it is a dirt track um on which the derby

00:48:01.750 --> 00:48:03.510
and all the other triple events are all run on

00:48:03.510 --> 00:48:06.710
dirt as opposed to grass so anyone watching in

00:48:06.710 --> 00:48:09.789
the uk will find it very unfamiliar um it will

00:48:09.789 --> 00:48:12.010
look very different not being on a lush green

00:48:12.010 --> 00:48:16.570
thick muddy grass um yeah it's on dirt but that

00:48:16.570 --> 00:48:18.369
is obviously still very affected by the weather

00:48:18.369 --> 00:48:22.190
and by the uh ambient conditions as well as to

00:48:22.190 --> 00:48:23.989
how heavy that is and how easy it is to run on

00:48:23.989 --> 00:48:28.090
that's pretty cool um it's got quite a lot of

00:48:28.090 --> 00:48:33.309
distinctive features um Clubhouse now has a 36

00:48:33.309 --> 00:48:36.170
foot or 11 meters again for the metric lovers

00:48:36.170 --> 00:48:39.110
out there. There you go. Mural depicting all

00:48:39.110 --> 00:48:41.570
jockeys to have won the Kentucky Derby. It also

00:48:41.570 --> 00:48:43.690
has another mural depicting all of the trainers.

00:48:45.210 --> 00:48:48.409
Updates are done yearly to accommodate obviously

00:48:48.409 --> 00:48:51.010
new winners and trainers, jockeys, et cetera.

00:48:51.769 --> 00:48:54.889
But the most famous feature of it is the stadium

00:48:54.889 --> 00:48:57.150
is probably, or the race course rather, is the

00:48:57.150 --> 00:49:01.000
famous Twin Spire Grandstand. which was built

00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:04.719
back in 1895. Very nice. Yeah, it's very cool.

00:49:05.059 --> 00:49:09.719
20 years after the course opened. But obviously,

00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:13.980
you know, modernity, is that the right word?

00:49:14.099 --> 00:49:16.579
I don't know. I think you can think of other

00:49:16.579 --> 00:49:19.860
words for it, but we'll call it modernity. Always

00:49:19.860 --> 00:49:24.119
gets in the way. They obviously just built a

00:49:24.119 --> 00:49:28.039
shitload of modern luxury suites in 2008, which

00:49:28.039 --> 00:49:32.510
effectively blocked the view. yay for capitalism

00:49:32.510 --> 00:49:35.670
yeah exactly block the view of the famous spires

00:49:35.670 --> 00:49:37.429
from most parts of the ground but obviously you

00:49:37.429 --> 00:49:42.269
can still it's still like the feature front of

00:49:42.269 --> 00:49:45.329
the stadium I think it's near the main entranceway

00:49:45.329 --> 00:49:49.429
etc etc yeah and that's despite the fact that

00:49:49.429 --> 00:49:51.170
Churchill Downs has been designated a national

00:49:51.170 --> 00:49:55.550
historic landmark since 1986 in america um which

00:49:55.550 --> 00:49:57.510
i think tells you a lot about america in many

00:49:57.510 --> 00:50:00.090
ways yeah about their priorities well definitely

00:50:00.090 --> 00:50:02.429
but i also you know i love these tangents and

00:50:02.429 --> 00:50:04.309
i i looked up what a national historic landmark

00:50:04.309 --> 00:50:07.510
is uh in america of course he did naturally yeah

00:50:07.510 --> 00:50:11.650
it's a building district object site or structure

00:50:11.650 --> 00:50:13.949
that is officially recognized by the united states

00:50:13.949 --> 00:50:17.070
government for his outstanding historical significance

00:50:18.800 --> 00:50:20.699
They are abbreviated, as you might imagine, to

00:50:20.699 --> 00:50:24.980
NHLs, and they are designated by the United States

00:50:24.980 --> 00:50:29.539
Secretary of the Interior because they are sites

00:50:29.539 --> 00:50:32.360
where events of national historical significance

00:50:32.360 --> 00:50:35.400
have occurred, places where prominent persons

00:50:35.400 --> 00:50:38.599
lived or worked, icons of ideals that shaped

00:50:38.599 --> 00:50:42.440
the nation, outstanding examples of design and

00:50:42.440 --> 00:50:45.940
construction, places characterizing a way of

00:50:45.940 --> 00:50:49.039
life, or archaeological sites. Able to yield

00:50:49.039 --> 00:50:52.119
information. Interesting. Yeah. It's definitely

00:50:52.119 --> 00:50:55.099
not that. No. I'm actually sort of, I guess it's

00:50:55.099 --> 00:50:59.119
probably an, I don't know, an outstanding example

00:50:59.119 --> 00:51:01.519
of design or construction or site where events

00:51:01.519 --> 00:51:03.679
of national historical significance occurred.

00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:06.920
Yeah. Places characterizing a way of life, maybe.

00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:11.079
Yeah. Would add a stretch. But it's like, you

00:51:11.079 --> 00:51:13.579
know, it's a pretty big deal. I mean, other examples

00:51:13.579 --> 00:51:17.699
of NHLs are... the new york stock exchange brooklyn

00:51:17.699 --> 00:51:22.079
bridge empire state building um so yeah like

00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:25.760
around central station yeah and other places

00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:28.380
presumably outside of new york city yeah yeah

00:51:28.380 --> 00:51:30.599
like they're all over the place but i think new

00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:32.880
york's got high density of them um i imagine

00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:36.099
so yeah washington dc probably will as well um

00:51:36.099 --> 00:51:40.420
probably yeah plenty there but yeah it's a it's

00:51:40.420 --> 00:51:42.639
a big deal so obviously it also gives you a little

00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:46.659
you know um insight into like you said about

00:51:46.659 --> 00:51:50.260
america being a relatively new country um but

00:51:50.260 --> 00:51:52.699
yeah whatever we're the crucible is a is a graded

00:51:52.699 --> 00:51:56.820
building here so we can't really no i think everything

00:51:56.820 --> 00:51:58.940
everything we've listed so far is prettier than

00:51:58.940 --> 00:52:01.719
the crucible yeah it's all about the history

00:52:01.719 --> 00:52:03.860
exactly so i mean we should probably shut our

00:52:03.860 --> 00:52:07.920
mouths um yeah notable events in the stadium's

00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:13.269
history though uh i think this is a I think this

00:52:13.269 --> 00:52:15.630
is a pretty cool story, actually, given the period

00:52:15.630 --> 00:52:19.309
of time in which it happened. On June 5th, 1907,

00:52:19.530 --> 00:52:23.710
African -American jockey James Lee set a record

00:52:23.710 --> 00:52:25.869
that has never been beaten, and he won the entire

00:52:25.869 --> 00:52:28.510
six -race card at Churchill Downs, which is fun.

00:52:29.250 --> 00:52:32.389
Yeah, as you say, very impressive at any time

00:52:32.389 --> 00:52:34.250
in American history, especially impressive in

00:52:34.250 --> 00:52:38.030
1907, where it was not easy to be an African

00:52:38.030 --> 00:52:39.630
-American man anywhere in the United States,

00:52:39.630 --> 00:52:44.530
let alone in Kentucky. Yeah. But in more recent

00:52:44.530 --> 00:52:47.570
history, the stadium got hit by a tornado, which

00:52:47.570 --> 00:52:50.150
is pretty weird. That's interesting. Yeah. Well,

00:52:50.269 --> 00:52:51.670
I say the stadium got hit by, I think it was

00:52:51.670 --> 00:52:56.030
the stables, which is obviously, you know, important

00:52:56.030 --> 00:52:58.570
given that's where all the horses live. And they

00:52:58.570 --> 00:53:01.030
had to move 200 horses out to evacuate them and

00:53:01.030 --> 00:53:04.389
relocate them elsewhere. But the tornado didn't

00:53:04.389 --> 00:53:06.289
cause any damage to the twin spires or the clubhouse.

00:53:06.429 --> 00:53:12.690
So, you know, we carry on. Yeah, exactly. I mean,

00:53:12.710 --> 00:53:14.949
yes. Not uncommon in that part of the world.

00:53:15.869 --> 00:53:21.329
Well, that's all the key features of the derby.

00:53:21.389 --> 00:53:25.429
But, I mean, we love a story. We do love a story.

00:53:25.489 --> 00:53:28.170
And I do actually have some stories. I don't

00:53:28.170 --> 00:53:29.550
know how many of these we'll be able to fit in.

00:53:29.690 --> 00:53:35.610
But I think we'll try and fit a few stories in.

00:53:35.690 --> 00:53:37.369
I've got some good stories. Yeah, go for it.

00:53:37.929 --> 00:53:40.670
We've got time. We've got time. We've always

00:53:40.670 --> 00:53:45.519
got time. So I'll go back in time. I think I'll

00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:47.539
start with the most recent one and work my way

00:53:47.539 --> 00:53:49.380
backwards in time with these. So we'll start

00:53:49.380 --> 00:53:56.500
in 2008. So this is 31 years. No, sorry, 30 years

00:53:56.500 --> 00:53:59.539
this will be after the last horse to win the

00:53:59.539 --> 00:54:02.320
Triple Crown. So as we mentioned, it was 37 years

00:54:02.320 --> 00:54:05.159
in between Triple Crown winners, which might

00:54:05.159 --> 00:54:06.960
be a bit of a spoiler for how this story ends.

00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:11.800
But this is a horse called Big Brown. And in

00:54:11.800 --> 00:54:16.860
2008 Kentucky Derby, he cruised, roared past

00:54:16.860 --> 00:54:19.400
the leaders at the turn and pulled away with

00:54:19.400 --> 00:54:22.840
ease to win by nearly five lengths, which obviously

00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:26.719
got the attention of the nation. Great name as

00:54:26.719 --> 00:54:29.320
well, by the way. We're talking about tragedy

00:54:29.320 --> 00:54:31.420
that happens. That was a derby that was marred

00:54:31.420 --> 00:54:33.519
by tragedy. Second place finish at eight bells,

00:54:33.619 --> 00:54:35.159
collapsed after the finish and was unfortunately

00:54:35.159 --> 00:54:38.519
euthanized on track. So he cast a shadow of the

00:54:38.519 --> 00:54:40.679
day and just to... Just to point out, this is,

00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:43.239
while there aren't any fences, it's still a dangerous

00:54:43.239 --> 00:54:47.619
race. But the Preakness was next, and at Pimlico,

00:54:47.619 --> 00:54:51.880
at Pimlico, Big Brown was 1 -5. He was a favourite.

00:54:52.019 --> 00:54:54.300
He was expected to win. He had to win. And he

00:54:54.300 --> 00:54:57.420
did win, in breathtaking style. Sat just off

00:54:57.420 --> 00:54:58.940
the leaders, and then unleashed his signature

00:54:58.940 --> 00:55:01.239
move. Draw -dropping burst that left the field

00:55:01.239 --> 00:55:04.280
gasping behind him. The dream was alive. One

00:55:04.280 --> 00:55:06.980
race left. The Belmont Stakes. The race of champions.

00:55:07.949 --> 00:55:11.969
his chance to end 30 years of hurt. And with,

00:55:12.050 --> 00:55:13.389
obviously, as you can imagine, the eyes of a

00:55:13.389 --> 00:55:16.670
nation upon him. But then the cracks began to

00:55:16.670 --> 00:55:18.409
show, unfortunately, quite literally in this

00:55:18.409 --> 00:55:21.429
case, when a three -inch quarter crack reappeared

00:55:21.429 --> 00:55:23.610
on Big Brown's hoof. Same kind of injury that

00:55:23.610 --> 00:55:26.050
sidelined him before. His trainer described it,

00:55:26.090 --> 00:55:27.710
his trainer, Rick Dottereau, described it as

00:55:27.710 --> 00:55:30.429
a little hiccup. And the hoof was stitched, patched

00:55:30.429 --> 00:55:33.670
and bandaged, stainless steel wire and fiberglass

00:55:33.670 --> 00:55:37.550
implanted. And he was expected to still run.

00:55:37.880 --> 00:55:39.860
but he missed critical days training. He fought

00:55:39.860 --> 00:55:42.500
through the heat. He fought the deep, tiring

00:55:42.500 --> 00:55:46.340
track at Belmont, and he ran. He broke cleanly

00:55:46.340 --> 00:55:50.860
through, but his jockey, a man called Desormo,

00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:53.260
fought for control, pulling rank and pulling

00:55:53.260 --> 00:55:56.079
hard against the bit. Going into the first turn,

00:55:56.119 --> 00:55:57.980
he bumped another horse, not once, but twice.

00:55:58.260 --> 00:56:00.340
And down the backstress, he seemed unsettled,

00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:02.340
sweating more than usual. His ears were pinned

00:56:02.340 --> 00:56:06.500
back. And then, shockingly, around the far turn,

00:56:07.239 --> 00:56:09.780
his jockey pulled him up. He had nothing left.

00:56:09.980 --> 00:56:12.719
He was eased. He was pulled up. I don't know

00:56:12.719 --> 00:56:15.480
whether the jockey had in mind the horse had

00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:17.760
lost his life earlier, but regardless, it was

00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:19.659
the right thing to do. It was a controversial

00:56:19.659 --> 00:56:22.559
thing to do. A veteran horseman named Billy Turner,

00:56:22.739 --> 00:56:26.639
who trained Seattle slew, said bluntly, if DeSormo

00:56:26.639 --> 00:56:28.380
had pulled up a horse like that in my day, the

00:56:28.380 --> 00:56:30.760
stewards would have run him out of state. And

00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:32.960
Steve Haskins said, no one will ever know for

00:56:32.960 --> 00:56:35.260
sure why a horse that personified perfection.

00:56:35.949 --> 00:56:39.269
suddenly came apart at the seams uh so yeah big

00:56:39.269 --> 00:56:42.590
brown at that point undefeated champion had fallen

00:56:42.590 --> 00:56:46.570
um so that was the closest uh anyone who got

00:56:46.570 --> 00:56:50.469
in 30 years to winning the wall and uh heartbreak

00:56:50.469 --> 00:56:52.869
just to just to tell you what the race can do

00:56:52.869 --> 00:56:55.409
from a sporting sense yeah yeah that's my first

00:56:55.409 --> 00:56:59.050
story that's like i like it i like the story

00:56:59.050 --> 00:57:03.900
i um i also like the jockey because Yes, it was

00:57:03.900 --> 00:57:05.519
the right decision. He put the horse's welfare

00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:07.420
above everything else, and that's the most important

00:57:07.420 --> 00:57:09.320
thing. I was actually thinking as you were telling

00:57:09.320 --> 00:57:11.619
it, should he even be running in the third race?

00:57:11.739 --> 00:57:14.880
But I guess the Triple Crown is so coveted and

00:57:14.880 --> 00:57:19.260
so rare, it would be a brave man to just not

00:57:19.260 --> 00:57:23.119
enter when you've won two in a row. Yeah. But

00:57:23.119 --> 00:57:24.940
that's the pressure of money and prestige, isn't

00:57:24.940 --> 00:57:28.920
it? Yeah, you can repair a hoof like they did,

00:57:28.960 --> 00:57:32.090
obviously. desire for him to run was there it

00:57:32.090 --> 00:57:34.550
probably would have caused a the bookies to have

00:57:34.550 --> 00:57:36.309
to refund a lot if it was a late decision to

00:57:36.309 --> 00:57:39.449
pull him out um nevertheless the right decision

00:57:39.449 --> 00:57:41.969
was made in the end and yeah just missed out

00:57:41.969 --> 00:57:46.090
but still still still cool story won the derby

00:57:46.090 --> 00:57:48.610
yeah won the preakness and the preakness exactly

00:57:48.610 --> 00:57:52.210
and many horses are yeah there's been a lot of

00:57:52.210 --> 00:57:54.590
horses i think somewhere in the 20s we've won

00:57:55.099 --> 00:57:57.039
two out of the three events, but haven't been

00:57:57.039 --> 00:57:58.699
able to bring it home. And it is often the Belmont

00:57:58.699 --> 00:58:01.239
that is the undoer of horses. It is a bit longer

00:58:01.239 --> 00:58:04.219
than the other two. It's a slightly different

00:58:04.219 --> 00:58:06.920
challenge, but yeah, this was one of those cases.

00:58:07.280 --> 00:58:09.219
Yeah, yeah. That's a good story, though. I like

00:58:09.219 --> 00:58:14.000
that. Good name as well. Yeah. Big Brown. Got

00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:18.280
any others? I think he was named after a US Postal

00:58:18.280 --> 00:58:20.539
Service parcel. I think they have a standard

00:58:20.539 --> 00:58:22.719
parcel called a Big Brown. I might be wrong on

00:58:22.719 --> 00:58:25.780
that, but I'm sure I read that somewhere. a good

00:58:25.780 --> 00:58:29.280
reason to name him um yeah yeah i've got i've

00:58:29.280 --> 00:58:32.119
got other stories um so this is we're getting

00:58:32.119 --> 00:58:35.360
on to conspiracy theory side of things now and

00:58:35.360 --> 00:58:38.300
a little bit of gambling math this is fun let's

00:58:38.300 --> 00:58:41.659
go let's hear it a bit of yeah so this is the

00:58:41.659 --> 00:58:45.500
1994 kentucky derby and the story of holy bull

00:58:45.500 --> 00:58:48.059
so holy bull wasn't just good heading into the

00:58:48.059 --> 00:58:50.260
derby he was an absolute phenomenon as a three

00:58:50.260 --> 00:58:52.239
-year -old he'd won eight out of his ten starts

00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:55.079
that year Five of them at grade one level. He

00:58:55.079 --> 00:58:58.920
had raw numbers which were off the charts. And

00:58:58.920 --> 00:59:03.199
he had out -dueled some very good horses to win

00:59:03.199 --> 00:59:05.760
the Hodgson Stakes early in the year. Florida

00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:08.619
Derby blew away the field by six lengths with

00:59:08.619 --> 00:59:11.599
the fastest time since Alidar in 1978. Alidar

00:59:11.599 --> 00:59:15.539
being a Triple Crown winner. So going into the

00:59:15.539 --> 00:59:18.340
last Triple Crown winner before this 37 -year

00:59:18.340 --> 00:59:22.190
stretch. Going into the Kentucky Derby, Holy

00:59:22.190 --> 00:59:23.429
Bull wasn't just a favourite. He looked like

00:59:23.429 --> 00:59:24.969
a sure thing for the Triple Crown, let alone

00:59:24.969 --> 00:59:29.789
just the Derby. But then, disaster. So the Derby

00:59:29.789 --> 00:59:32.090
track was sloppy that day, but even to account

00:59:32.090 --> 00:59:34.289
for that, Holy Bull's performance was inexplicable.

00:59:34.550 --> 00:59:37.170
He broke poorly, he ran listlessly, and he staggered

00:59:37.170 --> 00:59:40.369
home 12th in the end. His trainer, Jimmy Crowell,

00:59:40.409 --> 00:59:42.550
was adamant something was wrong. He believed

00:59:42.550 --> 00:59:44.650
Holy Bull had been drugged before the race. The

00:59:44.650 --> 00:59:47.070
horse, Crowell said, was unusually lethargic

00:59:47.070 --> 00:59:49.639
even before entering the gate. And afterwards,

00:59:49.780 --> 00:59:51.760
Holy Bull was treated with antibiotics for possible

00:59:51.760 --> 00:59:54.440
infection, but no clear cause was ever found.

00:59:54.539 --> 00:59:57.800
And crucially, no blood samples were taken immediately

00:59:57.800 --> 00:59:59.420
after the derby, meaning if something had been

00:59:59.420 --> 01:00:01.420
done to him, there's no way to prove it. Hence,

01:00:01.480 --> 01:00:05.840
conspiracy theories. Sabotage. Yeah, rumors quickly

01:00:05.840 --> 01:00:08.840
spread that if Holy Bull had been sabotaged,

01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:11.579
it wasn't just about revenge or sabotage or trying

01:00:11.579 --> 01:00:13.800
to give another horse the best chance of winning.

01:00:13.880 --> 01:00:16.800
They did some maths and worked out that it created...

01:00:17.179 --> 01:00:19.440
artificially created what is known as a dutch

01:00:19.440 --> 01:00:23.639
book so a dutch book in gambling in simple terms

01:00:23.639 --> 01:00:26.099
is a situation where the odds are so badly set

01:00:26.099 --> 01:00:29.000
that you could place bets on every outcome and

01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:31.500
guarantee a profit so it would be like if you've

01:00:31.500 --> 01:00:34.380
got uh let's say there's a two horse race and

01:00:34.380 --> 01:00:36.579
both horses are rated three to one you bet on

01:00:36.579 --> 01:00:39.000
both of them you will get make a profit in that

01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:41.929
situation so That's obviously not something the

01:00:41.929 --> 01:00:43.670
bookmaker is ever going to do and they work hard

01:00:43.670 --> 01:00:46.210
to make sure this doesn't happen. However, if

01:00:46.210 --> 01:00:48.289
you end up with a horse who is such a favourite

01:00:48.289 --> 01:00:50.769
over any other horse and then you take him out

01:00:50.769 --> 01:00:53.610
of the race, essentially, the other horse's long

01:00:53.610 --> 01:00:56.210
odds would allow you to bet on multiple other

01:00:56.210 --> 01:00:58.030
horses and still give yourself a good chance

01:00:58.030 --> 01:01:00.070
of making a profit, if that makes sense. You

01:01:00.070 --> 01:01:05.190
take out the horse with odds on and then you're

01:01:05.190 --> 01:01:07.500
left with horses with long odds. you could book

01:01:07.500 --> 01:01:09.380
on bet on several of them and guarantee yourself

01:01:09.380 --> 01:01:11.199
or close to guarantee yourself a good outcome

01:01:11.199 --> 01:01:14.579
so that's what they reckoned well that was what

01:01:14.579 --> 01:01:17.559
the rumors are happened um the overwhelming favorite

01:01:17.559 --> 01:01:19.500
was going to run badly not because of the conditions

01:01:19.500 --> 01:01:21.860
not because of random chance but just make sure

01:01:21.860 --> 01:01:23.800
of it and you can turn the whole betting market

01:01:23.800 --> 01:01:27.039
upside down as a result public would keep pouring

01:01:27.039 --> 01:01:29.559
money into holy bull keeping the odds inflated

01:01:29.559 --> 01:01:31.420
for everyone else. Meanwhile, you could quickly

01:01:31.420 --> 01:01:33.039
spread your bets across all the other horses,

01:01:33.219 --> 01:01:35.679
exploit the inside information that you had created,

01:01:35.820 --> 01:01:38.139
and take advantage of the bad odds of the other

01:01:38.139 --> 01:01:40.420
horses. Drug the favourite, keep it quiet, bet

01:01:40.420 --> 01:01:42.800
the field, and cash in. Completely illegal. Nearly

01:01:42.800 --> 01:01:44.340
impossible to prove after the fact, especially

01:01:44.340 --> 01:01:47.420
if a blood test isn't taken. But here's the thing.

01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:49.980
Here's the kicker, I should say. Holy Bull didn't

01:01:49.980 --> 01:01:52.019
just fade away after the derby. He roared back

01:01:52.019 --> 01:01:53.920
in the Metropolitan Handicap, beating all the

01:01:53.920 --> 01:01:56.320
champions by over five lengths. He crushed the

01:01:56.320 --> 01:01:59.519
Dwyer Stakes. He conquered the Haskell, outclassed

01:01:59.519 --> 01:02:02.079
the Field and the Travers, and finished the season

01:02:02.079 --> 01:02:04.380
by dominating the Woodward Stakes. At the end

01:02:04.380 --> 01:02:06.480
of 1994, Holy Bull was named Horse of the Year,

01:02:06.619 --> 01:02:11.340
receiving 241 out of 245 votes, with mind -blowing

01:02:11.340 --> 01:02:13.699
average speed figures. He wasn't just good, he

01:02:13.699 --> 01:02:16.599
was historic, other than the fact he didn't bring

01:02:16.599 --> 01:02:19.880
it home in the derby. So yeah, looking back on

01:02:19.880 --> 01:02:21.960
that, it makes the derby stand out even more

01:02:21.960 --> 01:02:25.099
sharply. A one -off single race, the biggest

01:02:25.099 --> 01:02:26.880
race of the season, sandwiched between so much

01:02:26.880 --> 01:02:30.119
success and creating such a beneficial situation

01:02:30.119 --> 01:02:35.079
for bettors, potentially, or for betting markets.

01:02:35.460 --> 01:02:37.099
Remind me, when did you say this happened again?

01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:43.360
This was 1994. 1994. I was wondering if it was

01:02:43.360 --> 01:02:47.849
in the sweet spot of the American mafia. Because

01:02:47.849 --> 01:02:51.590
that has got... Yeah, that stinks, basically.

01:02:52.250 --> 01:02:55.690
It's very smelly, that one, isn't it? Now, we

01:02:55.690 --> 01:02:57.530
love a conspiracy theory, and I'm not saying

01:02:57.530 --> 01:02:59.789
for one second there's any actual evidence backing

01:02:59.789 --> 01:03:03.730
this up. But you look at the facts, and you look

01:03:03.730 --> 01:03:05.670
at the setup, and you look at the scenario, I

01:03:05.670 --> 01:03:09.389
can see a scenario where this would be very beneficial

01:03:09.389 --> 01:03:12.349
for certain people. And that's what makes a good

01:03:12.349 --> 01:03:15.429
conspiracy theory. And a good thing to discuss,

01:03:15.670 --> 01:03:18.179
even if there is, of course. absolutely no proof

01:03:18.179 --> 01:03:20.360
to back it up you're i mean you can draw a pretty

01:03:20.360 --> 01:03:23.400
strong inference there i think that maybe the

01:03:23.400 --> 01:03:28.079
horse didn't have a bad day yeah i mean as as

01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:31.199
i think the one line in that which um potentially

01:03:31.199 --> 01:03:33.699
would be a logical explanation as i said he was

01:03:33.699 --> 01:03:35.880
treated with antibiotics potentially for an infection

01:03:35.880 --> 01:03:40.219
afterwards so but then again maybe it was symptoms

01:03:40.219 --> 01:03:42.880
showing up strangely wouldn't want to speculate

01:03:42.880 --> 01:03:46.010
no Yeah, well, let's just leave it to others

01:03:46.010 --> 01:03:47.969
to determine whether they think that it's an

01:03:47.969 --> 01:03:51.829
awfully conveniently timed infection. Dear viewers,

01:03:51.909 --> 01:03:56.869
we will leave it for you to make your own conclusions

01:03:56.869 --> 01:03:59.550
here. Yeah. It's funny as well, because you know

01:03:59.550 --> 01:04:02.670
you mentioned Aladar in there, in that story.

01:04:03.630 --> 01:04:07.150
Aladar, yeah. Yeah, I had a... Which is a great

01:04:07.150 --> 01:04:09.489
name as well. It is a great name. I have a...

01:04:10.579 --> 01:04:12.800
You just remind me of a little statistic I'd

01:04:12.800 --> 01:04:17.039
come across. He is the only horse to have finished

01:04:17.039 --> 01:04:20.639
second in all three races. Oh, really? Yeah,

01:04:20.699 --> 01:04:23.840
he was defeated each time by Affirmed in 1978.

01:04:24.840 --> 01:04:27.760
Oh, of course, no. Sorry, it's Aladar and Affirmed.

01:04:27.840 --> 01:04:29.960
I was wrong when I said he won the Triple Crown.

01:04:30.119 --> 01:04:32.780
I have made a silly error. It was Affirmed. That

01:04:32.780 --> 01:04:36.099
was an incredible series of races, yeah. Sorry,

01:04:36.440 --> 01:04:40.360
yeah, so Aladar was... He came second in all

01:04:40.360 --> 01:04:44.420
three, which is insane to Affirmed. And his combined

01:04:44.420 --> 01:04:47.760
losing margin over all three races was two lengths.

01:04:48.840 --> 01:04:52.440
Yeah. And most of that was the Kentucky Derby.

01:04:52.539 --> 01:04:54.119
Like one and a half lengths of that was Kentucky

01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:57.099
Derby. I'm ashamed of myself for getting Affirmed

01:04:57.099 --> 01:05:01.420
and Harry Darby mixed up. Yes. Punish myself

01:05:01.420 --> 01:05:04.500
for that. Self -flagellation. Yeah, literally.

01:05:04.880 --> 01:05:06.300
It hasn't ruined the story though, mate. The

01:05:06.300 --> 01:05:07.780
story was all about whether or not they would

01:05:07.780 --> 01:05:11.000
open up horses. Yeah, it still makes the fact

01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:15.679
that this horse outran him statistically impressive

01:05:15.679 --> 01:05:18.480
because Ali Doll was clearly a Triple Crown winning

01:05:18.480 --> 01:05:22.219
worthy horse even if he didn't win any of them

01:05:22.219 --> 01:05:25.920
incredibly. Yeah, which is really cool. I could

01:05:25.920 --> 01:05:29.320
have done a story on that alone. Anyway, I've

01:05:29.320 --> 01:05:31.360
got more stories if you want them. Oh, mate,

01:05:31.420 --> 01:05:34.079
more than merrier. You know I'm partial to historical

01:05:34.079 --> 01:05:38.199
stories. So, yeah, fire off. We've had heartbreak.

01:05:38.239 --> 01:05:40.940
We've had conspiracy theory. Are we ready for

01:05:40.940 --> 01:05:43.980
some, well, technically more conspiracy theories,

01:05:44.039 --> 01:05:50.219
but around a time that America was, let's just

01:05:50.219 --> 01:05:56.219
say, one of the most interesting years. eventful

01:05:56.219 --> 01:06:01.320
years in American history is 1968. So 1968 was

01:06:01.320 --> 01:06:04.340
a year of assassinations, riots, protests, upheaval.

01:06:04.480 --> 01:06:07.139
There was a country teetering on the edge, cities

01:06:07.139 --> 01:06:09.880
burning, people bitterly divided. The Vietnam

01:06:09.880 --> 01:06:12.199
War was raging abroad, taking thousands of young

01:06:12.199 --> 01:06:16.079
American lives each month. At home, the civil

01:06:16.079 --> 01:06:18.219
rights movement was at its boiling point, struggling

01:06:18.219 --> 01:06:20.619
not only for equality, but for survival against

01:06:20.619 --> 01:06:22.719
growing backlash. Trust in political leaders

01:06:22.719 --> 01:06:26.449
was crumbling on every side. Hope itself seemed

01:06:26.449 --> 01:06:29.989
a fragile thing. Kentucky and Louisville in particular

01:06:29.989 --> 01:06:33.230
felt these tremors keenly. The Louisville itself

01:06:33.230 --> 01:06:35.110
had a relatively progressive streak compared

01:06:35.110 --> 01:06:37.409
to other southern cities. It was still deeply

01:06:37.409 --> 01:06:40.869
tied to the traditions of the old south. Segregation,

01:06:40.869 --> 01:06:42.750
though technically outlawed, lingered in practice.

01:06:43.090 --> 01:06:46.869
In 1968, Rachel's tension simmered under the

01:06:46.869 --> 01:06:49.639
surface of Kentucky society. Flaring into the

01:06:49.639 --> 01:06:51.619
open whenever the national spotlight turned towards

01:06:51.619 --> 01:06:54.320
race relations, the memory of Louisville's own

01:06:54.320 --> 01:06:56.440
racial protests and school integration battles

01:06:56.440 --> 01:06:58.820
were still very fresh in people's minds. People

01:06:58.820 --> 01:07:00.760
were nervous, defensive and fiercely protective

01:07:00.760 --> 01:07:03.039
of the cultural institutions represented the

01:07:03.039 --> 01:07:05.940
old ways, not more so than the Kentucky Derby,

01:07:05.960 --> 01:07:08.440
the crown jewel of the state's identity. And

01:07:08.440 --> 01:07:10.880
then a month before the Derby, America suffered.

01:07:11.320 --> 01:07:15.340
one of the most profound tragedies in its existence.

01:07:15.460 --> 01:07:18.559
The assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

01:07:19.360 --> 01:07:21.860
Assassinated in Memphis, Tennessee on April the

01:07:21.860 --> 01:07:24.119
4th. His death sending shockwaves throughout

01:07:24.119 --> 01:07:25.840
the country, understandably throughout the world.

01:07:26.539 --> 01:07:28.880
Grief of... Grief turned to rage. More than 100

01:07:28.880 --> 01:07:31.320
American cities erupted into riots. Washington

01:07:31.320 --> 01:07:33.860
DC, Chicago, Baltimore among the hardest hit.

01:07:34.420 --> 01:07:36.739
Louisville too. Store streets filled with protesters.

01:07:37.059 --> 01:07:39.639
Christ for justice. Sometimes meeting tear gas

01:07:39.639 --> 01:07:42.519
and police batons. Downtown businesses boarded

01:07:42.519 --> 01:07:44.719
up their windows. Tensions between black and

01:07:44.719 --> 01:07:47.320
white citizens ran dangerously high and the scars

01:07:47.320 --> 01:07:49.000
of April bled through into the atmosphere of

01:07:49.000 --> 01:07:51.380
early May and the Derby. Mate, you've set this

01:07:51.380 --> 01:07:53.400
up so I want to know what the fuck happened at

01:07:53.400 --> 01:08:00.150
this race. That is some context. So what the

01:08:00.150 --> 01:08:07.510
fuck happened at this derby? So a man named Peter

01:08:07.510 --> 01:08:11.449
Fuller was a owner of a horse named Dancer's

01:08:11.449 --> 01:08:14.690
Image. Dancer's Image arrived at Churchill Downs

01:08:14.690 --> 01:08:17.310
among the favourites. Peter Fuller had publicly

01:08:17.310 --> 01:08:20.270
donated the horse's winnings from a recent race

01:08:20.270 --> 01:08:24.029
to Coretta Scott King. the widow of Dr. Martin

01:08:24.029 --> 01:08:27.090
Luther King. And that meant a gesture of support

01:08:27.090 --> 01:08:29.270
for the civil rights movement and to support,

01:08:29.310 --> 01:08:31.890
obviously, a grieving widow. But in Kentucky,

01:08:32.109 --> 01:08:34.130
where many viewed the civil rights cause with

01:08:34.130 --> 01:08:36.810
suspicion or hostility, as mentioned, Fuller's

01:08:36.810 --> 01:08:39.289
politics was seen as potentially an insult, a

01:08:39.289 --> 01:08:41.529
challenge to the traditions that the Derby and

01:08:41.529 --> 01:08:44.270
its elite circles proudly upheld. Fuller's gesture,

01:08:44.390 --> 01:08:46.710
however noble, had already made him an outsider

01:08:46.710 --> 01:08:48.989
at Churchill's Down before the starting bell

01:08:48.989 --> 01:08:51.920
even rang. The race itself should have been a

01:08:51.920 --> 01:08:54.079
fairy tale for Fuller. Dancer's image broke poorly

01:08:54.079 --> 01:08:56.460
out the gate, falling dead last almost immediately,

01:08:56.600 --> 01:08:59.000
but showing remarkable resilience. The grey colt

01:08:59.000 --> 01:09:01.500
fought back through the field. The crowd roared

01:09:01.500 --> 01:09:03.180
as he surged past the favourite forward pass

01:09:03.180 --> 01:09:05.640
at the eighth pole and drove home to a stunning

01:09:05.640 --> 01:09:07.659
come -from -behind victory, only the fifth time

01:09:07.659 --> 01:09:09.979
in the Derby history that a horse had gone from

01:09:09.979 --> 01:09:12.720
last to first. In any other year, the performance

01:09:12.720 --> 01:09:16.079
would have been immortalised in gold. Instead...

01:09:16.319 --> 01:09:18.039
The victory was almost immediately clouded in

01:09:18.039 --> 01:09:20.619
suspicion. Within days, officials announced that

01:09:20.619 --> 01:09:23.000
Dancer's image, for the first time ever, first

01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:24.680
time this had ever happened to a derby winner,

01:09:24.840 --> 01:09:27.819
had failed his post -race urinalysis, testing

01:09:27.819 --> 01:09:31.739
positive for phenylbutazone, a common anti -inflammatory

01:09:31.739 --> 01:09:33.319
drug that was banned at the time in Kentucky

01:09:33.319 --> 01:09:37.460
racing, or was banned during meets. It was okay

01:09:37.460 --> 01:09:39.979
in between meets, I believe. Churchill Downs

01:09:39.979 --> 01:09:42.279
officials swiftly disqualified Dancer's image,

01:09:42.460 --> 01:09:44.399
stripped fuller of his trophy, and awarded the

01:09:44.399 --> 01:09:47.079
winter forward pass. Fuller protested furiously,

01:09:47.239 --> 01:09:49.140
insisting that the drug could not have been in

01:09:49.140 --> 01:09:51.560
Dancer's Image's system unless someone had tampered

01:09:51.560 --> 01:09:53.619
with the horse or the sample after the race.

01:09:54.159 --> 01:09:56.399
Many believed him, or at least believed that

01:09:56.399 --> 01:09:58.680
his political statements made him a target in

01:09:58.680 --> 01:10:00.640
a year when America's anger could boil over into

01:10:00.640 --> 01:10:03.239
any aspect of public life, even horse racing.

01:10:03.520 --> 01:10:05.880
The idea of sabotage, once unthinkable, seemed

01:10:05.880 --> 01:10:08.279
chillingly plausible in a world where assassinations,

01:10:08.279 --> 01:10:10.119
bombings and betrayals filled the headlines.

01:10:10.960 --> 01:10:14.279
Fuller's legal battle, which cost him $250 ,000.

01:10:15.180 --> 01:10:17.119
To overturn the disqualification, dragged on

01:10:17.119 --> 01:10:20.260
for years, but was eventually unsuccessful. The

01:10:20.260 --> 01:10:23.000
decision stood and the dream was dead. For more

01:10:23.000 --> 01:10:24.939
than 50 years, Dante's image remained the only

01:10:24.939 --> 01:10:26.920
Kentucky Derby winner disqualified after the

01:10:26.920 --> 01:10:29.420
race. 2019, maximum security crossed the line

01:10:29.420 --> 01:10:32.619
first, but was disqualified within minutes for

01:10:32.619 --> 01:10:34.779
interference, handing the win to Country House.

01:10:35.279 --> 01:10:38.079
Nevertheless, again, another one. Make your own

01:10:38.079 --> 01:10:42.640
mind up about that. That stinks of absolute shit.

01:10:43.500 --> 01:10:50.000
like that that feels like it's smelly it's too

01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:54.560
it's too convenient you know like it's i mean

01:10:54.560 --> 01:10:58.619
the timing yeah yeah and also like i don't know

01:10:58.619 --> 01:11:02.260
come from an answer yeah i don't know i don't

01:11:02.260 --> 01:11:05.539
know that that just that that yeah in the context

01:11:05.539 --> 01:11:09.140
which you so eloquently described as well that

01:11:09.140 --> 01:11:14.930
is um that's rancid I would be inclined to give

01:11:14.930 --> 01:11:18.729
our protagonist the benefit of the doubt there

01:11:18.729 --> 01:11:26.670
and lean heavily in favor of a conclusion that

01:11:26.670 --> 01:11:29.510
suggests that he's been royally fucked over.

01:11:30.569 --> 01:11:34.189
But yeah, that is a very good story. That was

01:11:34.189 --> 01:11:38.609
very interesting. Yeah. Got any uplifting ones?

01:11:40.289 --> 01:11:43.270
I have another story. Yeah, but is it a nice

01:11:43.270 --> 01:11:47.270
one? I have another story, Ben. Yeah, okay. Don't

01:11:47.270 --> 01:11:48.670
ask questions you don't want to know the answer

01:11:48.670 --> 01:11:51.989
to. You should know that more than anyone. Oh,

01:11:52.029 --> 01:11:56.069
no. Okay, go on. One more. Let's hear it. This

01:11:56.069 --> 01:11:59.289
is the final story. I want a romantic one. We're

01:11:59.289 --> 01:12:02.090
going... Well, I mean, you could say there's

01:12:02.090 --> 01:12:04.590
romance in this. It involves a married couple.

01:12:04.829 --> 01:12:07.680
Is it an underdog? We're going back... We're

01:12:07.680 --> 01:12:09.560
going back to the 1950s. Actually, to be honest,

01:12:09.600 --> 01:12:11.399
on a sporting sense, this is a very good story.

01:12:11.640 --> 01:12:14.880
We're going back to the 1950s here. So it was

01:12:14.880 --> 01:12:17.960
a time when horse racing, it was more than just

01:12:17.960 --> 01:12:20.439
a sport. It was the heartbeat of society, obviously.

01:12:21.060 --> 01:12:23.060
There was kings, there was moguls, all barons,

01:12:23.079 --> 01:12:25.100
bluebloods, all spending fortunes for a shot

01:12:25.100 --> 01:12:26.960
of glory beneath the twin spires of Churchill

01:12:26.960 --> 01:12:30.779
Downs. And no name was more envied than that

01:12:30.779 --> 01:12:33.560
of William Woodward Jr., who was heir to the

01:12:33.560 --> 01:12:36.430
Bel -Air stud dynasty. The Woodwards didn't just

01:12:36.430 --> 01:12:38.909
own racehorses. They bred them like Renaissance

01:12:38.909 --> 01:12:42.670
artists, shaping marble, crafting champions like

01:12:42.670 --> 01:12:45.489
Gallant Fox, previously mentioned, Omaha, and

01:12:45.489 --> 01:12:49.229
at this point in time, a new horse called Nashua.

01:12:50.189 --> 01:12:52.710
Nashua was bred for greatness. From the moment

01:12:52.710 --> 01:12:54.750
he hit the ground in 1952, everything about him

01:12:54.750 --> 01:12:57.729
spoke of destiny. Trained by the legendary Sonny

01:12:57.729 --> 01:12:59.590
Jim Fitzsimmons, who had already shepherded two

01:12:59.590 --> 01:13:02.250
Triple Crown winners, and ridden by Eddie Arcaro,

01:13:02.350 --> 01:13:05.600
a master tactician who was... I believe the most

01:13:05.600 --> 01:13:07.680
successful jockey, I think the only jockey to

01:13:07.680 --> 01:13:11.619
have ridden multiple Triple Crown winners. Oh,

01:13:11.619 --> 01:13:14.560
can I jump in there quickly? Eddie Alcara, now

01:13:14.560 --> 01:13:16.979
that you've mentioned him, he's obviously in

01:13:16.979 --> 01:13:18.600
the American Thoroughbred Horse Racing Hall of

01:13:18.600 --> 01:13:22.180
Fame. He has won more American Classic races

01:13:22.180 --> 01:13:24.260
than any other jockey in history and is the only

01:13:24.260 --> 01:13:26.380
rider to have won the US Triple Crown twice.

01:13:27.659 --> 01:13:30.579
He's regarded as one of the greatest jockeys

01:13:30.579 --> 01:13:32.979
in American history. So, yeah, sorry. Eddie Alcara,

01:13:33.100 --> 01:13:36.460
there you go. Yeah, very famous, very successful

01:13:36.460 --> 01:13:41.279
jockey. So this horse was obviously highly rated

01:13:41.279 --> 01:13:44.479
for the Kentucky Derby that year. But out of

01:13:44.479 --> 01:13:46.859
the dust and the heat of California came a horse

01:13:46.859 --> 01:13:49.579
called Swops, who was nicknamed the California

01:13:49.579 --> 01:13:52.899
Comet, which is a great nickname. So Swops was

01:13:52.899 --> 01:13:55.420
everything Nashua wasn't. Where Nashua was polished,

01:13:55.579 --> 01:14:00.420
Scraps was raw. Nashua was a very well -bred

01:14:00.420 --> 01:14:05.020
horse. well -chiseled horse, whereas Swaps came

01:14:05.020 --> 01:14:08.039
out of a bit more of a rough background. Well,

01:14:08.079 --> 01:14:09.479
I say a rough background, it makes it sound like

01:14:09.479 --> 01:14:11.500
he grew up on the streets. But his owner, Rex

01:14:11.500 --> 01:14:13.760
Ellworth, wasn't society stock. He was someone

01:14:13.760 --> 01:14:18.159
who built a career out of... He turned a patch

01:14:18.159 --> 01:14:22.560
of the desert into a racing empire and had brought

01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:25.199
this horse, Swaps, to the table. So the two colts

01:14:25.199 --> 01:14:28.079
met head -to -head in the 1955 Kentucky Derby.

01:14:28.640 --> 01:14:30.659
But it wasn't Nashua who crossed the line first.

01:14:30.720 --> 01:14:34.039
It was Swaps leading a lot of people on the East

01:14:34.039 --> 01:14:37.479
Coast stunned. Nashua would then regroup and

01:14:37.479 --> 01:14:39.539
would win the Preakness and win the Belmont as

01:14:39.539 --> 01:14:41.920
well. But the sting of Derby defeat and missing

01:14:41.920 --> 01:14:44.220
out on the Triple Crown gnawed at the Woodwoods

01:14:44.220 --> 01:14:47.100
like acid. Was Swaps truly the better horse or

01:14:47.100 --> 01:14:49.119
had fate intervened on that day in Louisville?

01:14:49.380 --> 01:14:52.180
There was only one way to settle it, Ben. A race.

01:14:52.840 --> 01:14:56.239
Nice. A one -on -one match race between the two

01:14:56.239 --> 01:14:59.119
horses. Horse against horse. No excuses and no

01:14:59.119 --> 01:15:03.460
second chances. August the 31st, 1955 at Washington

01:15:03.460 --> 01:15:07.960
Park Racetrack in Chicago. 35 ,000 people pressed

01:15:07.960 --> 01:15:11.119
shoulder to shoulder beneath the summer sun.

01:15:11.579 --> 01:15:13.600
Millions more leaning into their radios, hanging

01:15:13.600 --> 01:15:16.579
on to every word. East versus West. Aristocracy

01:15:16.579 --> 01:15:20.319
versus ambition. The American dream. Rags to

01:15:20.319 --> 01:15:22.899
riches. Maybe not quite that, but you've got

01:15:22.899 --> 01:15:24.359
to build a story, haven't you? Yeah, I was going

01:15:24.359 --> 01:15:27.220
to say, no one's coming from rags in horse racing.

01:15:27.420 --> 01:15:30.119
But yeah, carry on. The start was clean anyway.

01:15:30.260 --> 01:15:35.000
Nashua sees the early lead. Swaps try to keep

01:15:35.000 --> 01:15:38.020
close, but Nashua is relentless. Arcaro later

01:15:38.020 --> 01:15:40.239
said, I knew from the first turn he wasn't coming.

01:15:40.340 --> 01:15:42.880
We had him. In the end, Nashua pulled away with

01:15:42.880 --> 01:15:44.960
mechanical efficiency, crossing the wire six

01:15:44.960 --> 01:15:47.640
and a half lengths in front. Victory belonged

01:15:47.640 --> 01:15:50.880
to Nashua and to the Woodwoods. So yeah, for

01:15:50.880 --> 01:15:52.699
a brief glittering moment, it seemed the Woodward's

01:15:52.699 --> 01:15:55.220
place atop society was not just restored, but

01:15:55.220 --> 01:15:57.539
it was immortalized forever. Then came the night

01:15:57.539 --> 01:16:01.319
of October the 30th, 1955, Ben, where our story

01:16:01.319 --> 01:16:05.159
takes something of a sinister turn. At their

01:16:05.159 --> 01:16:08.539
mansion in Oyster Bay, Long Island, a palatial

01:16:08.539 --> 01:16:11.060
estate fit for kings, Billy and Anne Woodward

01:16:11.060 --> 01:16:14.000
returned from a society dinner. So Anne Woodward

01:16:14.000 --> 01:16:16.100
had come from a humble background. She was of

01:16:16.100 --> 01:16:20.520
Midwest stock. She was... Not from anything like

01:16:20.520 --> 01:16:22.300
an elite family, but she was a very, very beautiful

01:16:22.300 --> 01:16:25.819
woman. She'd moved to New York and found a place

01:16:25.819 --> 01:16:29.100
in society and eventually found her husband,

01:16:29.260 --> 01:16:32.420
Billy, there. Billy's mother disapproved of their

01:16:32.420 --> 01:16:34.520
marriage, thinking they weren't of the same stock,

01:16:34.680 --> 01:16:38.619
as it were. But nevertheless, they were married.

01:16:38.680 --> 01:16:40.779
The marriage was a tumultuous one. There was

01:16:40.779 --> 01:16:43.380
rumors of affairs on both sides throughout the

01:16:43.380 --> 01:16:47.380
marriage. On this night, October 30th, 1955,

01:16:47.960 --> 01:16:52.579
shortly after midnight, a shot rang out. And

01:16:52.579 --> 01:16:54.899
Billy Woodward, the heir to the Bel -Air dynasty,

01:16:54.960 --> 01:17:00.420
one of the biggest horse racing studs in America,

01:17:00.579 --> 01:17:03.340
was dead. And the shooter was his wife, Anne.

01:17:04.079 --> 01:17:06.899
She would claim, and the Nassau County Grand

01:17:06.899 --> 01:17:09.520
Jury would agree, that she mistook him for a

01:17:09.520 --> 01:17:13.159
prowler. The whispers soon blossomed like poisonous

01:17:13.159 --> 01:17:15.619
flowers for our society pages. What's a prowler?

01:17:15.840 --> 01:17:19.460
Like a stalker? A prowler, as in someone who'd

01:17:19.460 --> 01:17:22.159
come onto their property and therefore deserve

01:17:22.159 --> 01:17:25.579
to be shot. Ah, in true American style. Classic

01:17:25.579 --> 01:17:29.699
castle doctrine standards, yeah. So, whispers

01:17:29.699 --> 01:17:31.979
bloomed across society pages and was a social

01:17:31.979 --> 01:17:34.300
climber from Kansas. whose marriage to Billy

01:17:34.300 --> 01:17:36.140
was cold and bitter, that Billy was preparing

01:17:36.140 --> 01:17:39.380
to divorce her, that divorce would cut Anne off

01:17:39.380 --> 01:17:41.159
from her wealth, the status, the life she built,

01:17:41.300 --> 01:17:44.220
and ultimately the shooting would be no accident

01:17:44.220 --> 01:17:46.100
at all. These were the rumours that circled around.

01:17:46.619 --> 01:17:50.500
The Woodward family themselves of elite aristocracy

01:17:50.500 --> 01:17:53.960
by American standards. They circled their wagons.

01:17:54.039 --> 01:17:57.119
Billy's former mother, Elsie Woodward, who, as

01:17:57.119 --> 01:17:59.260
I mentioned, was very much against the marriage

01:17:59.260 --> 01:18:01.979
originally, wielded her influence like a broadsword,

01:18:02.079 --> 01:18:06.520
ensuring that while no charges were filed, that

01:18:06.520 --> 01:18:09.920
Anne's place in society was done with, preventing

01:18:09.920 --> 01:18:13.500
scandal from coming across her family, but ensuring

01:18:13.500 --> 01:18:17.199
that Anne would no longer be part of anything

01:18:17.199 --> 01:18:20.199
resembling society. So she became a pariah, shunned

01:18:20.199 --> 01:18:22.739
by the society that once embraced her, She fled

01:18:22.739 --> 01:18:25.460
to Europe, living a half -life relatively compared

01:18:25.460 --> 01:18:28.140
to her old life amongst villas and boulevards

01:18:28.140 --> 01:18:32.119
of the Riviera. She famously cultivated affairs

01:18:32.119 --> 01:18:35.079
with younger men, but she never remarried. And

01:18:35.079 --> 01:18:41.319
in 1975, Truman Capote, another darling of high

01:18:41.319 --> 01:18:43.899
society and a man who knew where all the bodies

01:18:43.899 --> 01:18:46.600
were buried, if you believe certain people, published

01:18:46.600 --> 01:18:49.359
a very thinly veiled story in Esquire magazine.

01:18:50.060 --> 01:18:52.460
Capote depicted a character named Anne Hopkins,

01:18:52.859 --> 01:18:56.100
very clearly based on Anne Woodward, as a cold

01:18:56.100 --> 01:18:59.140
-blooded murderer. The exposure was brutal, humiliating,

01:18:59.199 --> 01:19:02.359
and for Anne, apparently, too much for her to

01:19:02.359 --> 01:19:05.640
bear. Because on October 10th, 1975, Anne Woodward

01:19:05.640 --> 01:19:07.720
was found dead in her Fifth Avenue apartment,

01:19:08.060 --> 01:19:11.119
the victim of a deliberate drug overdose. Her

01:19:11.119 --> 01:19:14.239
funeral was described as sparsely attended. Society,

01:19:14.460 --> 01:19:17.340
it seemed, had finally exacted its revenge upon

01:19:17.340 --> 01:19:20.579
her. A tragedy didn't end there for the family,

01:19:20.739 --> 01:19:22.880
unfortunately. Less than a year later, James

01:19:22.880 --> 01:19:26.939
Woodward, who was her son and a Vietnam veteran

01:19:26.939 --> 01:19:29.859
himself, haunted by addiction and grief, jumped

01:19:29.859 --> 01:19:32.180
to his death out of a hotel window overlooking

01:19:32.180 --> 01:19:35.359
Central Park. He was just 29 years old. And a

01:19:35.359 --> 01:19:38.060
few decades later, the final Woodward heir, William

01:19:38.060 --> 01:19:41.579
Woody Woodward III, followed the same dark path

01:19:41.579 --> 01:19:44.100
as his brother, leaping from a 14 -floor kitchen

01:19:44.100 --> 01:19:47.829
window in Manhattan in 1999. Leaving behind a

01:19:47.829 --> 01:19:49.850
wife, a daughter, and unanswered questions that

01:19:49.850 --> 01:19:52.210
have haunted his family for generations. Such

01:19:52.210 --> 01:19:54.390
as, did Anne Woodward really kill Billy in a

01:19:54.390 --> 01:19:56.390
tragic accident? Or was it something darker,

01:19:56.550 --> 01:20:00.369
covered up to protect the family name? And resulting

01:20:00.369 --> 01:20:04.609
in Anne being shunned as a result. So, journalist

01:20:04.609 --> 01:20:07.489
Susan Brody spent years investigating the case.

01:20:08.029 --> 01:20:09.949
She interviewed more than a thousand sources,

01:20:10.210 --> 01:20:12.970
combed through decades of police records, and

01:20:12.970 --> 01:20:16.149
her conclusion was that Anne Woodward had likely

01:20:16.149 --> 01:20:19.310
killed Billy by mistake. At the time, there was

01:20:19.310 --> 01:20:23.770
warnings, reports of prowlers in the area, and

01:20:23.770 --> 01:20:27.649
there was in fact a man who later said that he

01:20:27.649 --> 01:20:31.770
was casing up the joint and may well have been

01:20:31.770 --> 01:20:33.810
on that night because he heard a gunshot and

01:20:33.810 --> 01:20:36.960
ran. So they may well have heard someone. uh

01:20:36.960 --> 01:20:40.159
genuinely uh invading their property and may

01:20:40.159 --> 01:20:41.979
have reached for the shotgun and as so often

01:20:41.979 --> 01:20:44.760
tragically happens in these circumstances saw

01:20:44.760 --> 01:20:47.000
a shadow in a dark corner of the room thought

01:20:47.000 --> 01:20:48.579
her husband was beside her pulled the trigger

01:20:48.579 --> 01:20:52.560
and before it was too late uh tragedy had struck

01:20:52.560 --> 01:20:55.779
so the myth was and meant to kill her husband

01:20:55.779 --> 01:20:58.880
to avoid disgrace to avoid divorce uh proved

01:20:58.880 --> 01:21:01.579
more durable than any mere fact as truman compote

01:21:01.579 --> 01:21:04.909
himself once said all literature is gossip And

01:21:04.909 --> 01:21:07.630
in this case, gossip wrote a tragic chapter.

01:21:09.270 --> 01:21:13.289
Jesus. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like the Prestorius

01:21:13.289 --> 01:21:18.989
defense to me. Oh, we will do an episode on that

01:21:18.989 --> 01:21:24.149
at some point, won't we? My word. But yeah, I

01:21:24.149 --> 01:21:27.149
mean, the answer to that question, the answer

01:21:27.149 --> 01:21:31.359
to that night for me, Jack, is more guns. if

01:21:31.359 --> 01:21:34.079
there had been more guns then i think this whole

01:21:34.079 --> 01:21:37.699
tragedy could have been avoided uh that seems

01:21:37.699 --> 01:21:42.239
a completely logical uh conclusion to reach should

01:21:42.239 --> 01:21:45.020
we point out to anyone wondering otherwise that

01:21:45.020 --> 01:21:47.319
sarcasm might be a play here oh yeah i mean like

01:21:47.319 --> 01:21:50.319
i couldn't be more anti -gun if i tried but um

01:21:50.319 --> 01:21:53.439
yeah but yeah that's i mean it's pretty wild

01:21:53.439 --> 01:21:56.159
how all of this stuff can just emerge from you

01:21:56.159 --> 01:21:58.439
know a couple of horse races just set the world

01:21:58.439 --> 01:22:02.880
on a yeah particular path that is that's quite

01:22:02.880 --> 01:22:06.079
an intense story that one yeah it's good though

01:22:06.079 --> 01:22:10.399
isn't it it is good it's very good yeah um that's

01:22:10.399 --> 01:22:11.979
what you get though with these events so they

01:22:11.979 --> 01:22:15.279
you know they're so they're so long lasting and

01:22:15.279 --> 01:22:18.060
they're so established that you know really fascinating

01:22:18.060 --> 01:22:22.720
stuff does emerge from i honestly um as as the

01:22:22.720 --> 01:22:25.479
book i mentioned before this is my the the sort

01:22:25.479 --> 01:22:27.890
of subject matter that i took this from which

01:22:27.890 --> 01:22:32.930
was Great Horse Racing Mysteries by John McAvoy.

01:22:33.729 --> 01:22:36.510
The audio version is very well read. I would

01:22:36.510 --> 01:22:40.130
recommend it, but I am just scraping the surface,

01:22:40.189 --> 01:22:44.130
honestly. Not all of them are about the Triple

01:22:44.130 --> 01:22:46.130
Crown events, but it's an American book. Most

01:22:46.130 --> 01:22:47.670
of them are about the Triple Crown events, and

01:22:47.670 --> 01:22:51.609
honestly, the stories, the tragedies, the rumors,

01:22:51.729 --> 01:22:55.970
the conspiracy theories, yeah. Yeah, well, I

01:22:55.970 --> 01:22:58.449
can imagine. When money is involved, when the

01:22:58.449 --> 01:23:01.170
mob is involved, when shady figures are involved,

01:23:01.409 --> 01:23:04.489
when gambling is involved, and when there's a

01:23:04.489 --> 01:23:09.050
lot at stake. Either bad things can happen, or

01:23:09.050 --> 01:23:13.149
if not, then if bad things do happen, where there

01:23:13.149 --> 01:23:16.409
is no clear cause, rumours will come of it very

01:23:16.409 --> 01:23:19.289
quickly. Yeah, for sure. There's a lot of stories.

01:23:20.289 --> 01:23:22.890
I will probably, I mean, we'll almost certainly

01:23:22.890 --> 01:23:27.390
rehearse more of them. as we come around to these

01:23:27.390 --> 01:23:30.489
events in the calendar year uh yeah we would

01:23:30.489 --> 01:23:33.529
love to tell every story in every in every episode

01:23:33.529 --> 01:23:36.029
but it's just simply not possible because um

01:23:36.029 --> 01:23:40.729
they are so rife um but and yeah yeah and as

01:23:40.729 --> 01:23:42.529
i learned last week a two -hour episode takes

01:23:42.529 --> 01:23:46.890
a very long time to edit yeah well we're learning

01:23:46.890 --> 01:23:49.430
our lessons as we go and apologies to anyone

01:23:49.430 --> 01:23:51.489
who was listening to last episode i completely

01:23:51.489 --> 01:23:55.420
ballsed up my um microphone which is why it sounds

01:23:55.420 --> 01:23:58.600
a bit odd um so i sold jack down the river there

01:23:58.600 --> 01:24:01.039
but in your in your defense um it was the first

01:24:01.039 --> 01:24:03.000
time we recorded in person and when you record

01:24:03.000 --> 01:24:05.779
in person you don't wear a headset yeah and so

01:24:05.779 --> 01:24:08.239
i can't get immediate feedback on how ben sounds

01:24:08.239 --> 01:24:11.020
in that circumstance so never mind there you

01:24:11.020 --> 01:24:14.380
go lesson learned lesson learned uh yeah i mean

01:24:14.380 --> 01:24:16.760
we've done we've done quite a lot here but one

01:24:16.760 --> 01:24:19.859
thing we haven't done We've continuously mentioned

01:24:19.859 --> 01:24:22.500
the Preakness and the Belmont, but we haven't

01:24:22.500 --> 01:24:25.140
really explained anything about them. I think

01:24:25.140 --> 01:24:27.079
we can quickly. Just a quick overview and then

01:24:27.079 --> 01:24:31.140
we'll... Wrap it up. We'll bid everyone and each

01:24:31.140 --> 01:24:34.640
other good day. Yeah. Do you want to do the Preakness?

01:24:35.579 --> 01:24:37.880
Yeah, so the Preakness. I mentioned this. There's

01:24:37.880 --> 01:24:40.039
Pimlico Racecourse, which I might pronounce terribly

01:24:40.039 --> 01:24:42.079
the first time I said it, even though it's a

01:24:42.079 --> 01:24:45.109
word very associated with... the United Kingdom.

01:24:45.630 --> 01:24:47.789
It's a Pimlico race course in Baltimore, Maryland.

01:24:48.090 --> 01:24:50.250
The middle jewel of the Triple Crown and the

01:24:50.250 --> 01:24:52.630
run for the Black -Eyed Susans. The Black -Eyed

01:24:52.630 --> 01:24:55.149
Susan is the Maryland state flower and the winner,

01:24:55.229 --> 01:24:57.590
like the Kentucky Derby, is adored with a blanket

01:24:57.590 --> 01:25:00.909
of flowers. In this instance, flowers which look

01:25:00.909 --> 01:25:03.170
like Black -Eyed Susans, but I do believe they're

01:25:03.170 --> 01:25:04.729
not actually Black -Eyed Susans. They are not.

01:25:04.869 --> 01:25:07.489
Black -Eyed Susans don't come into season until

01:25:07.489 --> 01:25:10.449
later in the year. Yeah, they bloom two months

01:25:10.449 --> 01:25:15.689
after the race, I think. But nevertheless, adorned

01:25:15.689 --> 01:25:17.310
in flowers that look like Black Eyed Susans,

01:25:17.329 --> 01:25:19.569
which I think is enough. So they also have an

01:25:19.569 --> 01:25:22.470
infield fest, a party, fancy hats, official cocktail

01:25:22.470 --> 01:25:24.750
called the Black Eyed Susan, made with vodka,

01:25:24.949 --> 01:25:27.569
Saint -Germain liqueur and pineapple, lime and

01:25:27.569 --> 01:25:29.430
orange juices, which again sounds quite pleasant

01:25:29.430 --> 01:25:30.989
to be fair. That does. I'd have one of them.

01:25:31.050 --> 01:25:33.149
I do love a cocktail. Nothing wrong with that.

01:25:33.789 --> 01:25:36.229
So they used to sing the third verse of Maryland,

01:25:36.310 --> 01:25:38.170
My Maryland, which is the official state song,

01:25:38.310 --> 01:25:40.350
you would be surprised to learn, of Maryland.

01:25:41.320 --> 01:25:43.460
accompanied by a marching band. But the song

01:25:43.460 --> 01:25:45.859
celebrates the Confederacy and was discontinued

01:25:45.859 --> 01:25:48.739
in 2020 due to the racial conversations, which,

01:25:48.819 --> 01:25:53.220
yeah, I can believe that. The Black -Eyed Susan

01:25:53.220 --> 01:25:55.680
is, of course, a tradition, but no Black -Eyed

01:25:55.680 --> 01:25:57.359
Susan is ever used. They don't bloom until two

01:25:57.359 --> 01:26:00.239
months later. So similar flowers are used and

01:26:00.239 --> 01:26:03.300
historically would dye black as well, I believe.

01:26:03.479 --> 01:26:06.520
Yeah, they are, yeah. And as soon as the Preakness

01:26:06.520 --> 01:26:08.399
winner has been declared official, a painter

01:26:08.399 --> 01:26:10.479
climbs a ladder to the top of a replica of the

01:26:10.479 --> 01:26:13.020
old clubhouse Coppola. The colours of the victorious

01:26:13.020 --> 01:26:15.359
winner's silks are applied to the jockey and

01:26:15.359 --> 01:26:17.819
horse that are part of the weather vane atop

01:26:17.819 --> 01:26:20.579
the infield structure. Mate, I love that tradition.

01:26:20.699 --> 01:26:22.840
I think that's my favourite tradition that we've

01:26:22.840 --> 01:26:26.460
come across. It's like if anybody's familiar

01:26:26.460 --> 01:26:30.159
with Lords, there's a very famous, you know,

01:26:30.199 --> 01:26:33.659
wind. dial thing at the top of the weather vane

01:26:33.659 --> 01:26:36.720
thing at the top of uh the the um pavilion there

01:26:36.720 --> 01:26:40.819
as well and it doesn't get painted um but i just

01:26:40.819 --> 01:26:44.539
like the idea of it being painted i think that's

01:26:44.539 --> 01:26:47.479
cool presumably that lasts a year until the following

01:26:47.479 --> 01:26:50.000
year where it's replaced exactly where weather

01:26:50.000 --> 01:26:53.000
itself probably wears the paint away so yeah

01:26:53.000 --> 01:26:57.520
cool And the original Woodlawn Vase trophy is

01:26:57.520 --> 01:27:00.020
kept at the Baltimore Museum of Art and brought

01:27:00.020 --> 01:27:02.439
to the race each year under guard for the winner's

01:27:02.439 --> 01:27:04.939
presentation. The winner does not keep it, receives

01:27:04.939 --> 01:27:06.939
a replica, and then the trophy goes back to the

01:27:06.939 --> 01:27:10.300
museum for the rest of the year. And it may surprise

01:27:10.300 --> 01:27:14.119
you to learn the Preakness Stakes record is held

01:27:14.119 --> 01:27:18.239
by Secretariat. There you go. There's the Preakness.

01:27:18.399 --> 01:27:21.560
The Preakness. And so if you've managed to win

01:27:21.560 --> 01:27:25.199
the Derby and the Preakness, then you go to Belmont

01:27:25.199 --> 01:27:28.140
with an opportunity of winning the Triple Crown,

01:27:28.319 --> 01:27:32.659
as you may now have probably guessed. Usually

01:27:32.659 --> 01:27:34.460
held on the first or second Saturday in June,

01:27:34.619 --> 01:27:36.739
five weeks after the Kentucky Derby, three weeks

01:27:36.739 --> 01:27:40.720
after the Preakness. Run at Belmont Park in Elmont,

01:27:40.880 --> 01:27:46.699
New York. That was a course opened in 1905, but

01:27:46.699 --> 01:27:49.300
I won't bore everyone with the particulars, but

01:27:49.300 --> 01:27:52.680
essentially the Belmont's moved a few times.

01:27:52.760 --> 01:27:56.479
It's predominantly run at Belmont Park, and I

01:27:56.479 --> 01:27:59.819
think it's actually being renovated. So it will

01:27:59.819 --> 01:28:02.420
be held somewhere else this year and was last

01:28:02.420 --> 01:28:05.039
year. I think it goes back to Belmont Park in

01:28:05.039 --> 01:28:10.520
2026. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, it is for all

01:28:10.520 --> 01:28:12.239
intents and purposes held at Belmont Park, but

01:28:12.239 --> 01:28:15.800
it's moved around a lot. Yeah, race covers one

01:28:15.800 --> 01:28:20.180
lap of the Belmont Park championship track. And

01:28:20.180 --> 01:28:23.020
it's called that because nearly every major American

01:28:23.020 --> 01:28:25.979
champion in racing history has competed on the

01:28:25.979 --> 01:28:28.750
racetrack, which is kind of fun. I didn't know

01:28:28.750 --> 01:28:34.670
that before reading into this event. Oh, cool.

01:28:34.869 --> 01:28:37.430
Yeah, and it's got a very large, wide sweeping

01:28:37.430 --> 01:28:41.010
turn and long home stretch. It's basically considered

01:28:41.010 --> 01:28:45.189
one of the fairest racetracks in America. And

01:28:45.189 --> 01:28:49.430
the main dirt track is nicknamed the Big Sandy,

01:28:49.590 --> 01:28:54.590
which I think is a cool name. And despite the

01:28:54.590 --> 01:28:56.750
distance, the race tends to favor horses with

01:28:56.750 --> 01:29:00.989
tactical speed. Basically, relatively few winners

01:29:00.989 --> 01:29:03.869
close from far behind the early leaders. So you've

01:29:03.869 --> 01:29:05.350
got to get out there. You've got to get out the

01:29:05.350 --> 01:29:10.489
gate. Get out the gate fast. And like the other

01:29:10.489 --> 01:29:14.329
two races, it has got a lot of tradition. Only

01:29:14.329 --> 01:29:16.850
flower -based traditions by any chance. Oh, well,

01:29:16.930 --> 01:29:20.810
now that you mention it, Jack. It was originally

01:29:20.810 --> 01:29:23.609
known as Run for the Carnations, continuing that

01:29:23.609 --> 01:29:28.630
flower theme for you. But when it became established

01:29:28.630 --> 01:29:31.149
as the third race, it became known for obvious

01:29:31.149 --> 01:29:34.689
reasons as the Test of the Champion. Nice. Yeah.

01:29:34.949 --> 01:29:36.550
It's a good name. It is a good name, exactly,

01:29:36.590 --> 01:29:39.449
because you are the double champ going into the

01:29:39.449 --> 01:29:42.340
Belmont. But the winning horse is still draped

01:29:42.340 --> 01:29:44.699
with a blanket of white carnations. And those

01:29:44.699 --> 01:29:46.760
carnations, of which there are approximately

01:29:46.760 --> 01:29:51.039
700... Only approximately? Yeah. Disappointing.

01:29:51.819 --> 01:29:57.520
Come from Colombia, which I, you know, that's

01:29:57.520 --> 01:30:00.640
quite... Okay. Yeah. And the New York Race Association

01:30:00.640 --> 01:30:03.899
has long used the Pennock Company, a wholesale

01:30:03.899 --> 01:30:06.239
florist based in Philadelphia, to import them.

01:30:06.300 --> 01:30:08.800
I don't really know why I look up this shit.

01:30:09.079 --> 01:30:11.260
It's not that. I was going to say, you're throwing

01:30:11.260 --> 01:30:14.279
a bone to florists this week. Good stuff, mate.

01:30:14.699 --> 01:30:19.300
Honestly, you're just keeping these, what was

01:30:19.300 --> 01:30:21.060
it, architects previously? What else have we

01:30:21.060 --> 01:30:24.239
had? Horticulturalists. I guess this is kind

01:30:24.239 --> 01:30:27.340
of a bone to them as well. Big fans of yours.

01:30:28.250 --> 01:30:31.449
Well, you know, we cater for everyone here on

01:30:31.449 --> 01:30:36.970
the almanac. The winning owner ceremonially presented

01:30:36.970 --> 01:30:41.750
with a silver winner's trophy, which is designed

01:30:41.750 --> 01:30:45.510
by Tiffany and Company, which I thought was just

01:30:45.510 --> 01:30:47.989
another weird tangent. I've heard of them. Yeah,

01:30:48.069 --> 01:30:51.909
they're fairly famous. Yeah, first presented

01:30:51.909 --> 01:30:55.750
in 1896. Who cares? Do you know what I mean?

01:30:57.449 --> 01:31:00.829
There's a longstanding trophy, which is made

01:31:00.829 --> 01:31:02.909
by Tiffany and Company, which is cool. They also

01:31:02.909 --> 01:31:07.449
have a song, although this is weird. The Belmont,

01:31:07.630 --> 01:31:10.930
I don't know, maybe it's part of its charm that

01:31:10.930 --> 01:31:13.850
it moves locations, it changes its song, it changes

01:31:13.850 --> 01:31:16.869
its nickname. There's a theme emerging, I guess.

01:31:17.010 --> 01:31:21.119
At least they're consistent. It's currently themed

01:31:21.119 --> 01:31:24.079
from New York, New York by Frank Sinatra, but

01:31:24.079 --> 01:31:28.600
it's also changed loads. I think before American

01:31:28.600 --> 01:31:32.380
Pharoah won the Triple Crown in 2015, some claimed

01:31:32.380 --> 01:31:35.579
that changing the officials... belmont song accursed

01:31:35.579 --> 01:31:38.079
the triple crown which is why no horse had won

01:31:38.079 --> 01:31:41.899
since affirmed in 78 but others also um that

01:31:41.899 --> 01:31:44.399
is famously what the gods look out for exactly

01:31:44.399 --> 01:31:47.460
changes in music exactly and like others astutely

01:31:47.460 --> 01:31:49.319
noted that there hadn't been any triple crown

01:31:49.319 --> 01:31:52.760
winners between 1979 and 1996 even though um

01:31:52.760 --> 01:31:55.680
the original sidewalks song was still being played

01:31:55.680 --> 01:31:58.439
and sung so that is frankly don't let facts get

01:31:58.439 --> 01:32:02.359
in the way of a good story but yeah it's gone

01:32:02.359 --> 01:32:05.819
back at one point It was Empire State of New

01:32:05.819 --> 01:32:09.159
York or whatever that song is by Jay -Z and Alicia

01:32:09.159 --> 01:32:12.100
Keys. Fair enough. They were trying to appeal

01:32:12.100 --> 01:32:14.140
to a younger audience, I think, but they realized

01:32:14.140 --> 01:32:15.920
that people actually do quite like tradition.

01:32:16.100 --> 01:32:17.680
And so that's why they've gone back to the Sinatra

01:32:17.680 --> 01:32:21.840
song. Yeah. Belmont doesn't seem quite as keen

01:32:21.840 --> 01:32:23.579
on traditions as the others. Maybe that's the

01:32:23.579 --> 01:32:26.659
tradition in itself. I also like this about the

01:32:26.659 --> 01:32:30.630
Belmont. There are drinks. Oh, yes. Yeah, the

01:32:30.630 --> 01:32:34.069
official drink was changed in 1997 from the White

01:32:34.069 --> 01:32:37.390
Carnation. Of course it was. It was changed from

01:32:37.390 --> 01:32:39.489
the White Carnation to the Belmont Breeze. And

01:32:39.489 --> 01:32:41.970
the New York Times has reviewed both drinks very

01:32:41.970 --> 01:32:44.890
unfavorably, calling the Belmont Breeze a significant

01:32:44.890 --> 01:32:47.670
improvement over the nigh -undrinkable White

01:32:47.670 --> 01:32:50.069
Carnation, despite the fact that it tastes like

01:32:50.069 --> 01:32:55.250
a refined trash can punch. Excellent. That is

01:32:55.250 --> 01:33:00.279
damning. And then, yeah, 2011, the Belmont Breeze

01:33:00.279 --> 01:33:03.420
again was changed to the current official drink.

01:33:03.420 --> 01:33:04.880
Probably for the best. I'll probably let them

01:33:04.880 --> 01:33:06.939
have that one. Yeah, known as the Belmont Jewel.

01:33:06.939 --> 01:33:08.899
And I haven't read any reviews about the Belmont

01:33:08.899 --> 01:33:13.380
Jewel, so I can't. Let's live in ignorance on

01:33:13.380 --> 01:33:17.279
that one. Let's assume it's nice. Yeah. And then,

01:33:17.300 --> 01:33:19.779
yeah, no prizes for guessing who holds the course

01:33:19.779 --> 01:33:26.520
record. Secretariat. But also, this again, just

01:33:26.520 --> 01:33:30.960
because I love this horse. His time of 2 .24

01:33:30.960 --> 01:33:34.560
in 73 set a world record that still stands for

01:33:34.560 --> 01:33:37.060
that length over one and a half miles, which

01:33:37.060 --> 01:33:40.260
is in and of itself insane. But he won the race

01:33:40.260 --> 01:33:45.060
by 31 lengths. Yeah, I mean, this is obviously

01:33:45.060 --> 01:33:47.239
triple crown. I think it'd been a few years.

01:33:47.550 --> 01:33:50.989
a few years at least before 73 without a Triple

01:33:50.989 --> 01:33:53.750
Crown winner. Obviously, a lot of hype with Secretaria

01:33:53.750 --> 01:33:56.449
for obvious reasons. Going into that last race,

01:33:56.510 --> 01:33:58.109
what do you want? You want a nice tight finish,

01:33:58.189 --> 01:33:59.970
a nice, you know, keep them on the edge of their

01:33:59.970 --> 01:34:02.850
seats. 31 lengths he won by. Everyone else might

01:34:02.850 --> 01:34:04.949
as well have not turned up. It's mad. So he,

01:34:05.029 --> 01:34:06.789
when he won the Triple Crown, he set a course

01:34:06.789 --> 01:34:10.890
record at all three courses. He ran negative

01:34:10.890 --> 01:34:13.670
splits in the derby and then he won by 31 lengths

01:34:13.670 --> 01:34:17.220
at the Belmont. Sorry, we're not even having

01:34:17.220 --> 01:34:20.520
a goat discussion. Oh, no, it's him. Yeah, it's

01:34:20.520 --> 01:34:23.640
just whatever. Anyone who says anything differently

01:34:23.640 --> 01:34:25.500
is an idiot and just haven't even looked at the

01:34:25.500 --> 01:34:30.979
basic statistics. But yeah, that's basically

01:34:30.979 --> 01:34:34.239
the Belmont. There have been other famous winners

01:34:34.239 --> 01:34:36.979
of it. Man O' War is probably the one that people

01:34:36.979 --> 01:34:39.539
might have heard of in 1920. He won by 20 lengths,

01:34:39.640 --> 01:34:42.520
which is a pretty astonishing victory. He also

01:34:42.520 --> 01:34:44.300
won the Preakness, but didn't win the Derby.

01:34:45.150 --> 01:34:47.350
He wasn't entered because I think the calendar

01:34:47.350 --> 01:34:49.189
year, as we discussed at the beginning of the

01:34:49.189 --> 01:34:51.829
episode, was different. And the trainer didn't

01:34:51.829 --> 01:34:55.449
like racing in Kentucky. Yeah. Well, there wasn't

01:34:55.449 --> 01:34:59.590
really the hype around it in 1920. Yeah. 1930

01:34:59.590 --> 01:35:02.590
onwards. So maybe it just wasn't such a prestigious

01:35:02.590 --> 01:35:05.390
thing at that point. Yeah, exactly. Shame. I

01:35:05.390 --> 01:35:08.170
should have also mentioned, and it would be remiss

01:35:08.170 --> 01:35:10.729
not to mention, so he said American Pharoah won.

01:35:11.210 --> 01:35:15.630
um in 2000 and uh when did he win again 15 15

01:35:15.630 --> 01:35:19.170
he he's the only horse to have won the grand

01:35:19.170 --> 01:35:23.069
slam um he's the first and only horse to sweep

01:35:23.069 --> 01:35:25.569
the four majors which is the obviously the triple

01:35:25.569 --> 01:35:28.229
crown uh and he also won at the breeders cup

01:35:28.229 --> 01:35:30.369
i think i think it's the breeders cup that makes

01:35:30.369 --> 01:35:34.770
the grand slam so um we can probably verify that

01:35:34.770 --> 01:35:36.810
before no yeah i think you're right i think you

01:35:36.810 --> 01:35:39.880
are right But yeah, I mean, that's absolutely

01:35:39.880 --> 01:35:45.079
absurd. That is impressive. So maybe put him

01:35:45.079 --> 01:35:47.359
second in the argument. Yeah, he's second. He's

01:35:47.359 --> 01:35:50.000
second. You can't compete with Secretariat as

01:35:50.000 --> 01:35:53.920
winning margins and dominance. So the Breeders'

01:35:53.920 --> 01:35:57.319
Cup's only been going on 41 years. So a lot of

01:35:57.319 --> 01:35:59.460
the fact there's no Triple Crown winners will

01:35:59.460 --> 01:36:02.079
be because of that. And there's also not been

01:36:02.079 --> 01:36:04.560
any Triple Crown winners in most of those 41

01:36:04.560 --> 01:36:07.810
years as well. that was the early 80s it will

01:36:07.810 --> 01:36:11.149
have started so uh we'll um pinch of salt on

01:36:11.149 --> 01:36:13.829
that one it's it's a it's a much newer so 1982

01:36:13.829 --> 01:36:16.409
was the first breeders cup so much newer thing

01:36:16.409 --> 01:36:19.250
this grand slam as we're talking about but nevertheless

01:36:19.250 --> 01:36:22.029
the first winner perhaps we should refer to was

01:36:22.029 --> 01:36:24.229
american pharaoh rather than saying no one's

01:36:24.229 --> 01:36:26.649
ever won it before because obviously secretary

01:36:26.649 --> 01:36:28.710
i never got the chance to yeah he didn't exactly

01:36:28.710 --> 01:36:32.050
and would have can we be clear would i think

01:36:32.050 --> 01:36:34.489
it's i think i'd bet on it put it that way i'm

01:36:34.489 --> 01:36:37.569
not that bad at betting yeah um but yeah i mean

01:36:37.569 --> 01:36:40.529
it's a it's just i mean i before we wrap this

01:36:40.529 --> 01:36:42.170
up i think i just think it's such a cool event

01:36:42.170 --> 01:36:46.770
um can i close this with a with a with a nice

01:36:46.770 --> 01:36:49.430
little sentiment which i think sums up like the

01:36:49.430 --> 01:36:52.069
romance i think in a second but let's before

01:36:52.069 --> 01:36:54.090
we do that should we talk about where you can

01:36:54.090 --> 01:36:56.770
watch it because i like to it seems very unromantic

01:36:56.770 --> 01:36:59.390
to do that after some nice closing words let's

01:36:59.390 --> 01:37:01.829
let's do the fundamentals first so you can watch

01:37:01.829 --> 01:37:04.840
it if you're in the usa on NBC, All Three Racers.

01:37:04.899 --> 01:37:06.840
The Belmont, for some reason, is also on Fox.

01:37:07.380 --> 01:37:10.079
In the UK, Sky Sports for the Kentucky Derby.

01:37:10.779 --> 01:37:15.500
Ireland, Virgin Media 2, and Canada, TSN. I'm

01:37:15.500 --> 01:37:18.600
sure you can catch it on YouTube very soon afterwards

01:37:18.600 --> 01:37:21.100
as well. Oh yeah, absolutely. I don't know if

01:37:21.100 --> 01:37:24.939
the Preakness and the Belmont are shown. I doubt

01:37:24.939 --> 01:37:28.399
they are. Maybe. I'm sure there's somewhere you

01:37:28.399 --> 01:37:31.300
can find them, but I'll... Yeah. We'll, we'll

01:37:31.300 --> 01:37:32.880
talk about that maybe in a couple of weeks time

01:37:32.880 --> 01:37:35.500
before the Preakness. Yeah. See if we can slip

01:37:35.500 --> 01:37:38.640
it in, but yeah, don't know. Cool. Well, before

01:37:38.640 --> 01:37:42.119
we go then, now that we've covered everything

01:37:42.119 --> 01:37:44.039
we want to cover, there's just like a really

01:37:44.039 --> 01:37:46.939
nice story, which I think we were saying about

01:37:46.939 --> 01:37:50.739
the rarity of the winners. Bill Hartek, who won

01:37:50.739 --> 01:37:52.699
the Derby five times and the Preakness stakes

01:37:52.699 --> 01:37:54.880
three times and the Belmont stakes once, but

01:37:54.880 --> 01:37:57.920
never won the triple crown, had a shot at the

01:37:57.920 --> 01:38:04.090
triple crown. on a horse uh called northern dancer

01:38:04.090 --> 01:38:08.329
who was a canadian horse um in 1960 good name

01:38:08.329 --> 01:38:11.170
then yeah yeah it's a really cool name in 1964

01:38:11.170 --> 01:38:14.449
he had a shot at the the triple crown uh on northern

01:38:14.449 --> 01:38:17.430
dancer northern dancer obviously had won the

01:38:17.430 --> 01:38:19.949
uh the derby and the preakness and going into

01:38:19.949 --> 01:38:24.239
the moment um was you know really There was a

01:38:24.239 --> 01:38:25.779
lot of hype, as you imagine, because there was

01:38:25.779 --> 01:38:28.180
a gap. I think it was like a 26 -year gap. And

01:38:28.180 --> 01:38:30.819
unfortunately, he came up short. He didn't win

01:38:30.819 --> 01:38:34.000
the Belmont. And because there had been such

01:38:34.000 --> 01:38:35.800
a gap, I think people were disappointed. You

01:38:35.800 --> 01:38:37.960
know, like the hype train, this, that, and the

01:38:37.960 --> 01:38:41.960
other. And Bill Hartek being, you know, as successful

01:38:41.960 --> 01:38:43.779
as he was as well. I think people wanted him

01:38:43.779 --> 01:38:47.300
to win the Triple Crown. So there was a lot of

01:38:47.300 --> 01:38:49.039
disappointment when Northern Dancer didn't win.

01:38:49.560 --> 01:38:51.720
And he was asked immediately after the race.

01:38:52.359 --> 01:38:55.520
like if he was disappointed in the horse which

01:38:55.520 --> 01:39:01.079
i think is a shit question um i agree and to

01:39:01.079 --> 01:39:03.380
bill's credit he responded and i think this is

01:39:03.380 --> 01:39:06.199
just perfect really he just responded how can

01:39:06.199 --> 01:39:08.600
it be disappointment when a horse runs his heart

01:39:08.600 --> 01:39:11.140
out for you he certainly didn't disgrace himself

01:39:11.140 --> 01:39:15.710
not to me anyway And it seems Canada agrees because

01:39:15.710 --> 01:39:17.930
Northern Dancer was inducted into the Canadian

01:39:17.930 --> 01:39:21.189
Sports Hall of Fame in 1965 and is considered

01:39:21.189 --> 01:39:24.029
a Canadian icon, which I think is adorable. There's

01:39:24.029 --> 01:39:26.689
a shiver down my spine. Thank you, Ben. He's

01:39:26.689 --> 01:39:28.789
a horse. Good way to end. He's a horse and he's

01:39:28.789 --> 01:39:30.489
in their Hall of Fame. So it's a lovely way to

01:39:30.489 --> 01:39:34.430
end, I think. Yeah. So yeah, Citation 1948 was

01:39:34.430 --> 01:39:38.170
the previous winner of the Triple Crown and,

01:39:38.229 --> 01:39:42.250
of course, the next one a few years later. 1973,

01:39:42.250 --> 01:39:46.069
Secretariat. We'll end on the mention of him

01:39:46.069 --> 01:39:49.609
one more time. Yeah, so I think that's it. I

01:39:49.609 --> 01:39:52.329
think next week we are moving over to do some,

01:39:52.430 --> 01:39:54.590
well, sticking with the Canadian theme. Yeah.

01:39:55.270 --> 01:39:57.689
Throwing a bone to Canada. Well, I say throwing

01:39:57.689 --> 01:39:59.970
a bone. It's not something we're experts on,

01:40:00.050 --> 01:40:02.069
but we'll do our best. It's the Ice Hockey World

01:40:02.069 --> 01:40:04.689
Championships and the NHL playoffs that starts

01:40:04.689 --> 01:40:06.270
as well. So we're going to do both. We're going

01:40:06.270 --> 01:40:08.899
to talk about ice hockey and... yeah dive into

01:40:08.899 --> 01:40:11.359
that and i'll probably it's probably good as

01:40:11.359 --> 01:40:13.439
i said in the first episode of this a good chance

01:40:13.439 --> 01:40:15.199
for me to educate myself a bit more on certain

01:40:15.199 --> 01:40:17.520
sports and i think this is one of them so i'm

01:40:17.520 --> 01:40:20.140
looking forward to that yeah same i know nothing

01:40:20.140 --> 01:40:22.539
about ice hockey but i know it's brutal and i

01:40:22.539 --> 01:40:25.539
know it's fun yes i saw an ice hockey game actually

01:40:25.539 --> 01:40:28.180
last year i saw a pre -season game when i was

01:40:28.180 --> 01:40:31.279
in las vegas between the colorado avalanche and

01:40:31.279 --> 01:40:34.100
the vegas golden knights and it was fun cool

01:40:34.100 --> 01:40:35.859
so if you want to learn more about ice hockey

01:40:36.399 --> 01:40:39.439
Please feel free to join us then. But I guess

01:40:39.439 --> 01:40:41.399
until then, have a great time at the London Marathon,

01:40:41.439 --> 01:40:45.279
Jack. I will. And I'll see you soon. See you

01:40:45.279 --> 01:40:51.329
soon, pal. Once again, thank you for listening

01:40:51.329 --> 01:40:53.310
to the Sporting Almanac podcast. It is always

01:40:53.310 --> 01:40:56.050
appreciated. If you enjoyed it, give us a like,

01:40:56.069 --> 01:40:58.050
a subscribe or a rating at wherever you get your

01:40:58.050 --> 01:41:00.170
podcasts from. More importantly, please tell

01:41:00.170 --> 01:41:02.350
your friends there will never be any better advertising

01:41:02.350 --> 01:41:04.590
than word of mouth. Our theme tune is Oh Yeah

01:41:04.590 --> 01:41:06.949
by Harmonia Productions. You can find us on Blue

01:41:06.949 --> 01:41:08.989
Sky at the Sporting Almanac or drop us an email

01:41:08.989 --> 01:41:11.899
at thesportingalmanacpodcast .gmail .com. Congratulations

01:41:11.899 --> 01:41:14.140
to everyone who ran the London Marathon this

01:41:14.140 --> 01:41:16.600
weekend. You're all heroes. We'll be back next

01:41:16.600 --> 01:41:18.760
week with some ice hockey and until then, stay

01:41:18.760 --> 01:41:20.800
curious. Sport is nothing without the stories

01:41:20.800 --> 01:41:21.960
that make it. Goodbye.