WEBVTT

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In the beginning, there was college football.

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Saturday stadiums filled with smoke and sound.

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Marching bands roared. Legends were born in leather

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helmets and bloody jerseys. College ruled the

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land, far behind in its shadow. Professional

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football took its first uncertain steps. Leagues

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in name only. Teams rolled and folded like poker

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hands. Players were signed in bars, paid in cash

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and replaced by mourning. There were few rules.

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No fairness. Just money. For the teams that had

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it. But in 1936, inside a smoke -filled ballroom

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at the Ritz -Carlton in Philadelphia, a desperate

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man with a dead last football team made a bold

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proposal. What if the worst team picked first?

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That man was Bert Bell. That idea, the NFL draft.

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No cameras, no red carpets, just paper, pencils

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and hope. And in that moment, the future of pro

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football was rewritten. This is where the spectacle

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began. This is how the league found its balance.

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This is a Sporting Almanac podcast. morning ben

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morning jack good to see you face to face in

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my living room yes very nice to see you too happy

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easter happy easter to you too thank you for

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my egg you're very welcome i hope you enjoy it

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and i've only eaten about half of mine so far

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which is restrained by uh my standards so uh

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we'll start off as usual roundup of uh previous

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weekend sporting action so starting off with

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our main event um we had a Good evening watching

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the snooker on Saturday night. We did. A bit

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of a shock in play. As we know, we talked about

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last week, Curse of the Crucible, where the previous

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year's winner never wins and never retains their

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title. And Kyron Wilson, last year's champion,

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got knocked out by 21 -year -old Chinese player

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Li Paifan in a deciding frame in a very, very

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good performance from the young man. And a good

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fight back as well from Kyron Wilson after he

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looked dead and buried in the game. Great game

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all round. We enjoyed that, didn't we Ben? We

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did, yeah. We were the only two people watching

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it in the pub, which was turning some heads because

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we were reacting unceremoniously. Well, I'd say

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probably a bigger reaction than people used to

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for snookers in the bar watching snooker. Yeah,

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no, it's good, but I do think you made a mistake,

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Jack. I think referring to it as a shock. is

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a misstep considering it is absolutely regulation

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for the reigning champ to go out indeed yes fair

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play i mean obviously in in terms of uh ranking

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places it was a shock in terms of um expectations

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it was a shock but in terms of the crucible curse

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it's bang on the money yeah so if you did bet

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on karen rilson as we told you not to um well

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egg on your face indeed yeah There's also some

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other fun news from qualifying in the World Champs,

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with a chap from Wales getting two 1 -4 -7s in

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the same game in qualifying, therefore securing

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himself a bonus of £147 ,000 without even qualifying

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for the tournament. Impressive. So that was good.

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I can't remember the chap's name. I'll see if

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I can find it. Jackson Page. Jackson Page, well

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done. In other sporting news... Both Arsenal

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teams, as expected, into the semi -final of the

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Champions League. Lovely. The ladies had a difficult

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first leg, though, against Lyon. So they're having

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to come back from 2 -1 down in the away leg,

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which may be a bridge too far, but we shall see.

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Yeah, going away to Lyon will be a challenge,

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to say the least. But, you know. Yeah, you never

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know. And Liverpool are one win now away from

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the Premier League title. Which is good news

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for you. Good news for me. Yeah. Was there any

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other sport on this weekend that needs recapping?

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Yes. There was the Saudi Grand Prix. Yes. Oscar

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Piastri won the Saudi Grand Prix. The IPL is

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ongoing. The Butler, 97, red. The Red Roses won

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again in the Women's Six Nations. So it's a Grand

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Slam decider against France, which will be...

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It's not a guaranteed win. Yeah. Anyway, so...

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What's coming up? So as we've already mentioned,

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a big game this weekend in the women's Six Nations,

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the England Red Roses against France in a Grand

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Slam decider. So go the Red Roses. Yeah. And

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you said Eubank Junior versus Connor Byrne in

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the boxing. Should be some fun. Otherwise, I

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think it's a fairly quiet week. Obviously, you've

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got your regulation fixtures in the football,

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the rugby, the county championship, the IPL and

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cricket. There's a skipped week in the Formula

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One, but they're going to Miami after that. And

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I think that's probably it for your headline

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events this week, actually. Fairly low -key weekend

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after a bumper Easter. But there is one big event

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coming up this week. There is, Jack. Where are

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we going? This week, I couldn't be happier. This

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week, we are going to Green Bay, Wisconsin for

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the 2025 NFL Draft. It's very exciting. It is

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very exciting. And you're very much going to

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be driving this one because this is your wheelhouse.

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I think it's fair to say and for me to concede

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that you have a much wider pool of knowledge

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than I do when it comes to American sports. And

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perhaps your first love of American sports is

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American football. Yes, I would say so. I've

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been reading a lot of books on this. I've been

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doing a lot of research. I'm very, very excited

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by this one. With no further ado, shall we crack

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on with the NFL Draft? Let's. And, you know,

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why don't you start as we like to do, Jack, by

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just giving us the basics. Giving you the basics.

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So the basics are the NFL Draft is an annual

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event in which all the NFL teams, in reverse

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order of how they finished the previous year,

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pick from incoming college players to join their

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teams. The best players in college football the

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previous season will all be available to pick.

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And in order to keep the league balanced, keep

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the league fair, and I'll go into the history

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of why they do that shortly, but in order to

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keep it balanced and fair, they pick in reverse

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order of how they finished the previous season.

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So the team with the worst records, which this

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season is the Tennessee Titans, will pick first.

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And the team who won the Super Bowl, which last

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season was the Philadelphia Eagles, will pick

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last. We'll pick 32nd, I should say. And it goes

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over seven rounds. And each team will pick in

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that order unless they have traded their picks

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or they have been, in a couple of cases, punished

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by having picks withdrawn. I believe the Atlanta

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Falcons were a bit keen on Kirk Cousins and approached

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him earlier than they should have done. So they've

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lost a round five pick, for example. But yeah,

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that's basically how it works. It was created

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to level the playing field. Bad teams get early

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picks. Good teams get to pick later. Meaning

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the star players from college football should

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find themselves at the worst teams and should

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keep the league relatively balanced. It's a boss

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idea. I absolutely love this about American sports.

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Like the draft system just stops basically rich

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oligarchs, investment bankers from just buying

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out sports as a hobby and dominating it. I think

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like the most... The NFL wins by any single franchise

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is only like seven or something. I think it's

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the Patriots with six followed by the, oh no,

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level with the Steelers with six, yeah, and then

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the 49ers with five and the Cowboys with five

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behind. So yeah, in over 50 years of the NFL

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in the Super Bowl era, started in 1967, there

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have been, no team has won it more than seven

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times, which when you compare it to, let's compare

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it to the Premier League, for example, in the

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past. 30 years has been dominated largely by

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two teams out of Manchester, so it goes to show

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there is benefit to doing that. And the same

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with a lot of other sports leagues around the

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world. And no one's ever won it three times in

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a row? No, no one's ever won it three times in

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a row. It has been defended, but never done three

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times in a row. It would have been three times

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in a row this season had the Kansas City Chiefs.

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Not being absolutely pummeled by the Eagles.

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I think this happened a couple of times recently

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as well, wasn't it? The Patriots made a couple.

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Yes, yeah. Three times in a row. Yeah, but it's

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a hard league to dominate and the reason behind

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that is the draft. There is salary caps as well.

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It's a league designed for fairness and I can

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go into the history and I can tell you why it's

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a league designed by fairness because it was

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a league created in the first place essentially

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to strive to find a bit of balance. And that

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sort of mentality has been taken forward over

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time. Yes, boss. Shall I dive into the history

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then? Yeah, where it all began. Where it all

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began. Well, as I said in the intro, where it

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all began was college football. College football

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was the biggest, in the early 20th century, in

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the 1910s, 1920s, two sports dominated American

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sport more than any other. Baseball, of course.

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Naturally. And college football. which in certain

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parts of the country it certainly still does,

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especially in the south, in Texas. College football

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was a resoundingly amateur sport. There was big

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links between college football and the Olympic

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movement. A lot of college players would play

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football in the winter and would do athletics,

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either decathlon and events like that in the

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summer. So you'd end up with a lot of Olympians

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coming out of it, such as Jim Thorpe, famously.

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who was a gold medal winner at the 1912 Olympics

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and also a college football star. On the back

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of this, the early days of professional football

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in America was there were professional clubs,

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they would pay players and they would pay players

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in order to get their fans in. They'd pay a star

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like Jim Thorpe, for example, to come and play

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for them, advertise it heavily and try and get

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as many fans through the gate as they possibly

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can. But what they'd find was it was impossible

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to maintain a sort of level of fan affection

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for your team. when the bloke who played for

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you this week would be playing for the other

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team the week after. Guns for hire. Guns for

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hire. And while they would get a lot of people

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through the door, these big names, there was

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no consistency. The bidding wars between the

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teams was costing the owners a lot of money,

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and it was to no one's benefit, really. The fans

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weren't getting as good a product as they want,

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and the owners certainly weren't, because they

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were having to pay too much money for inconsistence.

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inconsistent staff i mean that's a pretty wild

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setup i guess it's very american though just

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basically try and put on the best show possible

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hire people as and when they become available

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yeah so so in 1920 i mean the professional football

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was barely a footnote it's just a ragtag collection

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of teams struggling for survival scraping together

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rosters however they could but that tide was

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turning because um in 1920 in canton ohio there

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was an try and bring some structure to the chaos.

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Originally called the American Professional Football

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Association, it was at first little more than

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a loose collection of small town teams, car dealerships

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doubling up as meeting houses for the owners,

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and players who generally worked second jobs

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during the week and would just supplement their

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income with the money made from football. So

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the first season of the APFA in 1920 had 14 teams

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playing in it. and see if you can use your mind

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and work out which of these teams are still in

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the NFL today, because there are a couple of

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them. The Akron Pros, the Buffalo All -Americans,

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the Campton Bulldogs, the Chicago Cardinals,

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the Chicago Tigers, the Cleveland Tigers, the

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Columbus Panhandles, the Dayton Triangles, the

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Decatur Stalys, the Detroit Heralds, the Hammond

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Pros, the Muncie Flyers, the Rochester Jeffersons,

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and the Rock Island Independents. I reckon one

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of those two Chicago teams, the Cleveland team,

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the Buffalo team. I think that's probably the

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best I can recount. Chicago Cardinals. Now the

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Bears. No, Chicago Cardinals, now the Arizona

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Cardinals. Ah, okay. So the Chicago Cardinals

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later became the Louis Cardinals and then became

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the Phoenix Cardinals and then the Arizona Cardinals.

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So in the classic history of American sports.

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And also the more surprising one of those was

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the Decatur Stalys, who, as you correctly pointed

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out, now known as the Chicago Bears. Yeah, I

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thought the Bears would still be kicking around.

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I'm surprised that Buffalo not. No, no. That's

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not the Bills. Buffalo were a little bit down

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the line. But yeah, so there you go. And over

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the next few years, more familiar names would

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join the league. The Philadelphia Eagles would

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join. The Pittsburgh Pirates initially became

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the Pittsburgh Steelers would join with little

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success at first. And the Eagles would become

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fairly influential in our topic. They certainly

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would. actually lends us quite nicely to moving

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on to the next stage. So from 1922 onwards, the

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league structure stayed relatively the same.

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Teams playing an undefined number of games per

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season. And at the end of it, they'd look at

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the records and try and decide who the champion

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was. It was very, very all over the place like

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that. But in 1922, they did make one decision

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which has stuck to this day. They renamed the

00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:54.500
league the National Football League. It's quite

00:13:54.500 --> 00:13:57.340
famous now. Quite famous now, indeed. professional

00:13:57.340 --> 00:13:59.500
football teams were getting college players to

00:13:59.500 --> 00:14:02.259
play for them affecting the college players eligibility

00:14:02.259 --> 00:14:06.759
and obviously that was shall we say royally pissing

00:14:06.759 --> 00:14:09.539
off the colleges as you can imagine so there

00:14:09.539 --> 00:14:11.480
was a lot of fight back from the colleges and

00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:15.320
the NFL or the the APFA as it originally was

00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:18.580
was founded on several principles one was making

00:14:18.580 --> 00:14:20.039
sure games were getting scheduled consistently

00:14:20.809 --> 00:14:23.210
One was making sure that there was better control

00:14:23.210 --> 00:14:25.990
over the selecting of college players and the

00:14:25.990 --> 00:14:28.250
use of college players and making sure it was

00:14:28.250 --> 00:14:31.629
after their college careers have ended that they

00:14:31.629 --> 00:14:35.509
were being used and also just to generally promote

00:14:35.509 --> 00:14:39.070
the game of American football. So the draft was

00:14:39.070 --> 00:14:41.350
a natural progression to this. At the time, the

00:14:41.350 --> 00:14:43.990
NFL was a mess of imbalance. There were a handful

00:14:43.990 --> 00:14:47.029
of successful franchises, the Chicago Bears and

00:14:47.029 --> 00:14:49.110
New York Giants. They could sign whatever player

00:14:49.110 --> 00:14:51.340
they wanted. Money talked. There was no rules

00:14:51.340 --> 00:14:53.899
to stop them. The weaker teams, last year after

00:14:53.899 --> 00:14:56.360
year, with no way out that they could see. And

00:14:56.360 --> 00:14:59.200
Bert Bell and his Philadelphia Eagles, his team

00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:01.100
were broke. His stadium was half empty every

00:15:01.100 --> 00:15:03.120
week. He couldn't attract talent no matter how

00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:05.200
hard he tried. So he proposed something radical.

00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:07.820
A college draft where the worst teams pick first,

00:15:07.980 --> 00:15:09.539
the best teams would have to wait their turn.

00:15:09.659 --> 00:15:12.039
He called it a system of competitive parity.

00:15:12.539 --> 00:15:15.360
And the other owners, surprisingly, agreed with

00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:18.759
him. That is boss, though. That's some people

00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:20.840
with the interests of their sport in mind and

00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:23.879
not their own self -interest. And that is definitely

00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:29.080
lost in most sports. It was an understanding

00:15:29.080 --> 00:15:32.379
that what benefited the league as a whole benefited

00:15:32.379 --> 00:15:35.600
the teams themselves. Fans do not want to go

00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:39.080
to watch a sport where it's a foregone conclusion

00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:41.860
every week, where there's lopsided scores. They

00:15:41.860 --> 00:15:43.320
know there's no chance for their team to succeed.

00:15:43.419 --> 00:15:45.059
They don't want to support a team. They don't

00:15:45.059 --> 00:15:46.539
want to turn up week on week when the team's

00:15:46.539 --> 00:15:48.259
getting back. That still happens to this day.

00:15:48.899 --> 00:15:51.820
Even in a popular sport like the NFL, teams who

00:15:51.820 --> 00:15:54.299
are struggling struggle to sell out their stadiums,

00:15:54.299 --> 00:15:56.860
and that's no good for anyone. Having a competitive

00:15:56.860 --> 00:15:59.399
league, while it might make it slightly harder

00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:01.759
to achieve success, which is the ultimate goal

00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:05.379
of sports, it makes it easier to consistently

00:16:05.379 --> 00:16:09.740
achieve. You bounce the books. It's good because,

00:16:09.799 --> 00:16:11.820
like you say, even when you're getting smoked,

00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:15.980
there's a way out. It might not happen overnight.

00:16:16.419 --> 00:16:19.019
It might take a little while. That's it. You've

00:16:19.019 --> 00:16:21.740
touched upon it. It's that word, that most important

00:16:21.740 --> 00:16:27.000
word in sport. Hope. Exactly, man. That is spot

00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:30.620
on, really. It's the New York Jets, of whom I

00:16:30.620 --> 00:16:34.750
am unfortunately a fan. Every season when you're

00:16:34.750 --> 00:16:37.450
2 -7 or whatever you are, when the season's gone,

00:16:37.649 --> 00:16:39.470
it gives you hope for the next year. You know

00:16:39.470 --> 00:16:40.990
you can go ahead and you can start looking at

00:16:40.990 --> 00:16:44.149
the mock drafts and start planning for the next

00:16:44.149 --> 00:16:45.570
season and start thinking about what you're going

00:16:45.570 --> 00:16:47.789
to do with that top five pick that you're inevitably

00:16:47.789 --> 00:16:49.549
going to end up with next season. Jacksonville

00:16:49.549 --> 00:16:53.129
Jags. Exactly. It's hope. It gives you something

00:16:53.129 --> 00:16:55.090
to look forward to even when all is lost. It

00:16:55.090 --> 00:16:58.769
gives you reason to be optimistic when in any

00:16:58.769 --> 00:17:01.110
other sport, in any other country in the world,

00:17:01.470 --> 00:17:03.230
There just wouldn't be any New York Jets fans

00:17:03.230 --> 00:17:05.609
left because it's been so long since they've

00:17:05.609 --> 00:17:08.269
had any real success. It's not the same thing

00:17:08.269 --> 00:17:10.630
because obviously the NFL is a franchise system

00:17:10.630 --> 00:17:13.150
and there isn't a relegation promotion aspect

00:17:13.150 --> 00:17:16.509
to it. But it's the same principle as the pyramid

00:17:16.509 --> 00:17:18.789
structure of domestic football. There's a way

00:17:18.789 --> 00:17:21.700
to the top. There is a way to the top. And that

00:17:21.700 --> 00:17:24.700
gives you your fans hope. It romanticizes it.

00:17:24.759 --> 00:17:28.359
It allows you or it builds up a tolerance, should

00:17:28.359 --> 00:17:31.539
we say, for performance or struggles. But that

00:17:31.539 --> 00:17:33.500
also makes like that is part of sport, isn't

00:17:33.500 --> 00:17:35.259
it? That's part of the reason why you and I love

00:17:35.259 --> 00:17:37.980
it is because it makes the good times sweeter

00:17:37.980 --> 00:17:41.400
when you've been rubbish. It does. Like if you

00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:43.960
dominate all the time, then you become entitled.

00:17:44.579 --> 00:17:46.930
And that's no good for anyone either. But anyway,

00:17:47.069 --> 00:17:49.970
sorry, we're digressing because we get philosophical

00:17:49.970 --> 00:17:53.750
about this stuff. We get romantic about this

00:17:53.750 --> 00:17:57.369
stuff. Romantic's the right word. But no, I think

00:17:57.369 --> 00:17:59.710
it's unreal. And I think Mr. Bell deserves a

00:17:59.710 --> 00:18:01.609
lot of credit for his suggestion. And to be fair,

00:18:01.650 --> 00:18:03.710
I think all the other owners in the league at

00:18:03.710 --> 00:18:06.470
the time also deserve a lot of credit for seeing

00:18:06.470 --> 00:18:08.630
the bigger picture because you wouldn't have

00:18:08.630 --> 00:18:13.769
the iconic, the long -lasting, the majesty. of

00:18:13.769 --> 00:18:16.769
the nfl that you have today without that proposal

00:18:16.769 --> 00:18:19.490
yeah it was it was a difficult start they were

00:18:19.490 --> 00:18:22.509
struggling with um stability teams coming teams

00:18:22.509 --> 00:18:26.470
leaving um teams going broke and it it was one

00:18:26.470 --> 00:18:29.390
of the key factors i think in stabilizing the

00:18:29.390 --> 00:18:32.430
league and allowing it um to get to the point

00:18:32.430 --> 00:18:34.890
there's only been since since this point in history

00:18:34.890 --> 00:18:36.930
since just before the war it's only been a small

00:18:36.930 --> 00:18:38.789
handful of teams maybe three teams i think they've

00:18:38.789 --> 00:18:41.039
dropped out of the nfl since then They have gained

00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:42.660
teams over the years. Obviously, leagues expanded,

00:18:42.819 --> 00:18:45.380
expansion drafts, entire leagues being absorbed

00:18:45.380 --> 00:18:48.160
into it, which we'll come to. But yeah, I think

00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:50.440
one of the key reasons has been the draft. And

00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:52.440
as I said, the first one was held on the 8th

00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:55.619
of February, 1936. So now we've got the draft.

00:18:55.859 --> 00:18:57.819
Yeah. You want to start telling us about the

00:18:57.819 --> 00:19:00.660
draft? The Ritz -Carlton Hotel in Philadelphia,

00:19:00.980 --> 00:19:04.200
the first NFL draft. Nine teams, nine rounds,

00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:07.549
81 total selections. As I said, no combine, no

00:19:07.549 --> 00:19:09.450
scouting departments, no television coverage,

00:19:09.710 --> 00:19:12.829
no red carpet. Teams relying on newspaper clippings,

00:19:12.869 --> 00:19:16.369
word of mouth, gut instinct. Sounds a lot like

00:19:16.369 --> 00:19:18.269
what it's still like today, to be honest. They

00:19:18.269 --> 00:19:22.109
just put some frills and bows around it. Yeah,

00:19:22.269 --> 00:19:24.730
gut instinct certainly still plays a part of

00:19:24.730 --> 00:19:26.410
it, and sometimes for the best, sometimes for

00:19:26.410 --> 00:19:28.559
the worst. I mean, players weren't even told

00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:30.039
they were drafted. Some of them only found out

00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:31.640
weeks later when they read it in the newspaper.

00:19:31.980 --> 00:19:33.759
That's absolutely mental. It's incredible. That

00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:35.299
is actually mental. I've got another goof story.

00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:38.460
The very first pick, number one pick of the very

00:19:38.460 --> 00:19:41.500
first draft, was a man named Jay Berwanger. He

00:19:41.500 --> 00:19:43.880
was picked, as you would imagine, by the Philadelphia

00:19:43.880 --> 00:19:46.519
Eagles, Bert Bell's team, who had the first pick.

00:19:46.839 --> 00:19:49.160
He was a halfback out of the University of Chicago,

00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:53.339
and he was the first ever winner of a trophy

00:19:53.339 --> 00:19:56.700
known as the Downtown Athletic Club Trophy. which

00:19:56.700 --> 00:19:58.519
was at the time reserved for the most valuable

00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:00.859
player east of the Mississippi. But the following

00:20:00.859 --> 00:20:04.519
year was expanded to the whole country and was

00:20:04.519 --> 00:20:08.240
named after the recently deceased athletic director

00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:11.059
of the Downtown Athletic Club, John Heisman.

00:20:11.380 --> 00:20:13.940
Oh, that guy's kind of famous these days. And

00:20:13.940 --> 00:20:16.599
yes, it has been awarded every season to the

00:20:16.599 --> 00:20:19.359
best college football player. The Heisman Trophy,

00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:21.980
the first ever winner, Jay Berwanger. He was

00:20:21.980 --> 00:20:26.450
drafted number one by the Eagles. He was a bona

00:20:26.450 --> 00:20:29.049
fide star. He was fast, tough, nationally known.

00:20:29.190 --> 00:20:32.009
He was the kind of player their team could build

00:20:32.009 --> 00:20:34.509
their franchise around. There was one problem,

00:20:34.569 --> 00:20:37.490
though. He didn't want to play. He asked for

00:20:37.490 --> 00:20:40.009
$1 ,000 a game, which was a high price, especially

00:20:40.009 --> 00:20:42.450
in the Depression era that this was, and the

00:20:42.450 --> 00:20:45.329
Eagles simply couldn't afford it. I think he

00:20:45.329 --> 00:20:48.069
wanted $15 ,000 for the season. They offered,

00:20:48.190 --> 00:20:51.869
I think, $13 ,500, which seems like... Small

00:20:51.869 --> 00:20:54.490
change nowadays, even with inflation taken into

00:20:54.490 --> 00:20:57.789
account. So they traded his rights to the Chicago

00:20:57.789 --> 00:21:00.150
Bears, who couldn't meet his demands either.

00:21:00.369 --> 00:21:03.130
So in the end, Jay Boehringer never played a

00:21:03.130 --> 00:21:05.809
single down in the NFL. What an idiot. Instead,

00:21:05.930 --> 00:21:08.650
he took a job working for a rubber company. He

00:21:08.650 --> 00:21:11.609
did quietly admit later that he regretted not

00:21:11.609 --> 00:21:14.609
playing, but by then he had moved on and so had

00:21:14.609 --> 00:21:19.569
the game. He kept his Heisman Trophy, and unsure

00:21:19.569 --> 00:21:21.950
what to leave it, he left it as, Ant's house,

00:21:22.049 --> 00:21:24.470
and she used it as a doorstop for years. What

00:21:24.470 --> 00:21:28.369
a dope, man. I mean, yeah, it's a different era.

00:21:28.470 --> 00:21:30.349
The same trophy now rests in the University of

00:21:30.349 --> 00:21:33.809
Chicago's Hall of Fame. So, there you go. Yeah.

00:21:34.089 --> 00:21:36.069
I mean, he's got his place in history, I guess.

00:21:36.089 --> 00:21:38.930
It counts for something. Yeah. He was the first.

00:21:38.990 --> 00:21:41.450
He was the prototype. I wish someone did that

00:21:41.450 --> 00:21:44.349
today. I know. So, there we are. That was the

00:21:44.349 --> 00:21:48.859
very first draft. As I mentioned, it's still

00:21:48.859 --> 00:21:50.700
going on to this day. It's a well -regulated

00:21:50.700 --> 00:21:54.059
system. It's designed to give every team a shot

00:21:54.059 --> 00:21:59.160
at success. Teams are able to trade their picks

00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:03.099
as well. If you want to acquire a player during

00:22:03.099 --> 00:22:06.200
the season or before a season, you can use your

00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:10.079
draft picks to trade for them, or you can trade

00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:12.019
within the draft itself and move yourself higher

00:22:12.019 --> 00:22:14.519
in the draft. some teams are better at doing

00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:17.579
that than others some teams certainly are and

00:22:17.579 --> 00:22:20.319
uh the draft rotates location every year nowadays

00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:22.640
and this year as i mentioned it is in green bay

00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:26.920
wisconsin um which is the smallest city to host

00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:30.900
an nfl club and one of the main long -term success

00:22:30.900 --> 00:22:33.099
stories of the league very successful also very

00:22:33.099 --> 00:22:35.480
bloody cold in green very cold especially in

00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:37.720
february yeah especially in april now isn't it

00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:40.730
and they uh When Green Bay get to the postseason,

00:22:40.829 --> 00:22:42.490
when they get to the playoffs and they get a

00:22:42.490 --> 00:22:47.470
home drive, it is often a factor, I suspect,

00:22:47.710 --> 00:22:50.710
in their ability to progress. Just a home field

00:22:50.710 --> 00:22:53.690
advantage, just your classic home field advantage,

00:22:53.890 --> 00:22:57.910
like minus 20, snowing, horrible. Indeed. I might

00:22:57.910 --> 00:23:00.089
be exaggerating slightly with attempts, but still.

00:23:00.390 --> 00:23:04.190
No, no, you're definitely not. So each team is

00:23:04.190 --> 00:23:06.410
limited by time. So in the first round, you get

00:23:06.410 --> 00:23:08.150
10 minutes. In the second round, you get seven

00:23:08.150 --> 00:23:10.970
minutes. The first round is held on Thursday,

00:23:11.170 --> 00:23:13.730
and then later rounds are held on later days,

00:23:13.849 --> 00:23:16.069
but all the attention is on the first round,

00:23:16.109 --> 00:23:19.529
really. If time expires on a pick, the team don't

00:23:19.529 --> 00:23:21.950
lose the pick, but the next team can jump ahead

00:23:21.950 --> 00:23:24.130
of them and can pick before them. I've read about

00:23:24.130 --> 00:23:25.769
this a few times. It's quite fun. It has happened.

00:23:25.910 --> 00:23:27.890
Yeah, it has happened. It's kind of interesting.

00:23:28.410 --> 00:23:30.970
It means you just missed the opportunity to draw

00:23:30.970 --> 00:23:33.559
someone. if someone else picks him before you,

00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:35.259
right? Essentially, you lose your spot in the

00:23:35.259 --> 00:23:38.119
draft. You move down one, someone can sneak in

00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:40.779
before you. Yeah, and then you can just slip

00:23:40.779 --> 00:23:43.359
it. You could still make a selection. It must

00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:44.819
be annoying for everyone if you get out of sync,

00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:46.839
to be honest. It shouldn't happen, but it does

00:23:46.839 --> 00:23:50.339
happen. Especially because, as I mentioned, you

00:23:50.339 --> 00:23:53.319
can trade during the draft. So if you're knee

00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:56.200
-deep in trying to get a trade through, then

00:23:56.200 --> 00:23:59.299
yeah, it can take over. You also get compensatory

00:23:59.299 --> 00:24:02.099
picks as well. So this is linked to... free agents

00:24:02.099 --> 00:24:04.819
if teams lose free agents and are deemed to have

00:24:04.819 --> 00:24:07.259
been put at a disadvantage because of it um they

00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:09.640
may be awarded extra picks which are later in

00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:14.920
the draft rounds three to seven um so yeah if

00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:17.240
you're a new you might be coming on to this jack

00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:19.220
so i might be jumping the gun slightly but when

00:24:19.220 --> 00:24:22.339
they do have expansions and there's new franchises

00:24:22.339 --> 00:24:25.019
they automatically get first pick yeah and you

00:24:25.019 --> 00:24:27.500
also have an expansion draft where this is a

00:24:27.500 --> 00:24:29.519
second type of draft that can occur where uh

00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:32.369
teams have can protect a certain number of their

00:24:32.369 --> 00:24:34.690
players, but then the new team gets to pick from

00:24:34.690 --> 00:24:37.190
the remainder. So it means they will have a competitive

00:24:37.190 --> 00:24:40.609
squad from season one is the idea. So everything

00:24:40.609 --> 00:24:43.950
is, everything is aimed at, um, uh, consist at,

00:24:44.029 --> 00:24:49.170
uh, fairness. Yeah. Nobody gets a competitive

00:24:49.170 --> 00:24:51.950
advantage through finances, which is usually

00:24:51.950 --> 00:24:55.369
where the disparity emerges. There's some traditions

00:24:55.369 --> 00:24:58.349
linked with the draft as well. Um, famously you

00:24:58.349 --> 00:25:01.940
have mystery irrelevant. Oh, yeah. The very last

00:25:01.940 --> 00:25:03.599
pick in the draft, and it's a bit of a tongue

00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:06.099
-in -cheek title. But some have gone on to success.

00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:11.099
Most recently, Brock Purdy in 2022, who has had

00:25:11.099 --> 00:25:13.420
a very successful start to his NFL career with

00:25:13.420 --> 00:25:16.119
the 49ers, including playing in the Super Bowl.

00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:19.920
Yeah. Although he lost. He did lose to... Who

00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:21.539
did he lose to again? Chiefs. Yeah, I was going

00:25:21.539 --> 00:25:23.359
to say. I thought it was the Chiefs. I was going

00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:25.779
to guess the Chiefs, but... It would be... A

00:25:25.779 --> 00:25:28.839
good guess. Yeah. So teams sometimes bring in

00:25:28.839 --> 00:25:31.279
celebrity fans, maybe military members or even

00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:34.720
mascots to announce picks in the draft as well.

00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:37.039
The only one that I know of off the top of my

00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:38.579
head is I know that Bradley Cooper is a massive

00:25:38.579 --> 00:25:41.500
Eagles fan. Yeah. If anyone has ever seen Silver

00:25:41.500 --> 00:25:44.880
Linings playbook, they weave that in quite heavily

00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:47.420
into that storyline. Well, anyone who's ever

00:25:47.420 --> 00:25:49.200
watched a Philadelphia Eagles game, he's usually

00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:50.759
there. He certainly was there for the Super Bowl

00:25:50.759 --> 00:25:53.779
this year. But yeah, it's become a massive televised

00:25:53.779 --> 00:25:56.029
event. Hundreds of thousands of fans. attending

00:25:56.029 --> 00:25:58.130
in person but as i mentioned it wasn't always

00:25:58.130 --> 00:26:01.309
like that um so what we're going to do is we're

00:26:01.309 --> 00:26:04.430
going to take a a decade by decade walk through

00:26:04.430 --> 00:26:07.630
the history of the draft and whistle stop i'll

00:26:07.630 --> 00:26:09.250
tell you yeah just a whistle stop i'll tell you

00:26:09.250 --> 00:26:12.109
a few cool stories i'll tell you a few notable

00:26:12.109 --> 00:26:14.529
picks whether they went on to achieve success

00:26:14.529 --> 00:26:17.589
or otherwise and um then we're gonna have a go

00:26:17.589 --> 00:26:20.130
at discussing some of the better picks and some

00:26:20.130 --> 00:26:23.089
of the worst picks indeed some of the uh The

00:26:23.089 --> 00:26:29.650
draft busts. Yeah. I'll start off with a comfortable

00:26:29.650 --> 00:26:32.589
place for us, Ben, the 1940s. Oh, this is our

00:26:32.589 --> 00:26:35.569
sweet spot. Are we going four for four? We are

00:26:35.569 --> 00:26:40.109
going four for four. Let's hear it. So over 600

00:26:40.109 --> 00:26:42.849
NFL players served in the war effort, and some

00:26:42.849 --> 00:26:45.789
of them never came back. Other players, such

00:26:45.789 --> 00:26:48.490
as Chuck Bedmerick, who was drafted in 1949,

00:26:48.710 --> 00:26:51.640
had already become a war hero. before he was

00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:53.140
even drafted and before he even went to college.

00:26:54.619 --> 00:26:58.460
In the 1943 draft, famously included players

00:26:58.460 --> 00:27:01.680
who were already in uniform with teams gambling

00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:05.700
on futures they may never see. It was a strange

00:27:05.700 --> 00:27:08.339
time, but the league kept going during the war,

00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:11.700
ostensibly for the benefit of the morale of the

00:27:11.700 --> 00:27:14.500
people. I think there's a certain amount of justification

00:27:14.500 --> 00:27:18.640
for that. America's a big place. It kept going

00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:21.900
with replacement players. other players getting

00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:24.180
opportunities who might not otherwise. Would

00:27:24.180 --> 00:27:28.059
have felt pretty... No, do I comment on that?

00:27:28.180 --> 00:27:29.539
I don't know. What's that? I was going to say,

00:27:29.559 --> 00:27:33.960
very able -bodied chaps still playing in the

00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:36.779
National Football League whilst other able -bodied

00:27:36.779 --> 00:27:39.160
chaps giving up their place in the National Football

00:27:39.160 --> 00:27:42.339
League. Yeah, it's a fair comment. I mean, I'm

00:27:42.339 --> 00:27:44.000
sure there's plenty of people who made that comment

00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:46.000
at the time. In fact, there certainly were plenty

00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:47.700
of people making that comment at the time. But

00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:49.660
there were obviously good reasons as well for...

00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:51.839
people to still be on the home front during the

00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:54.420
war effort. Yeah, of course. And a lot of them

00:27:54.420 --> 00:27:57.720
were. I'm being a dick. A lot of the players

00:27:57.720 --> 00:27:59.660
were working during the week and just playing

00:27:59.660 --> 00:28:01.839
at weekends. All I was trying to comment on,

00:28:01.880 --> 00:28:03.559
Jack, is I would rather be playing in the National

00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:05.940
Football League than on Iwo Jima. I think that

00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:10.859
is a fair comment indeed. So drafts continued

00:28:10.859 --> 00:28:13.140
despite the war. Many draftees, as I said, went

00:28:13.140 --> 00:28:16.599
straight into service. And the 1943 draft, as

00:28:16.599 --> 00:28:19.700
a result, had a... Had a record 32 rounds as

00:28:19.700 --> 00:28:22.220
teams desperately tried to fill their rosters

00:28:22.220 --> 00:28:24.859
that were depleted by enlistments. And it was

00:28:24.859 --> 00:28:26.640
common for players at this point to debut years

00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:29.799
after being selected for obvious reasons. In

00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:32.240
order to keep going, some teams even merged and

00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:34.839
became single teams. The Philadelphia Eagles

00:28:34.839 --> 00:28:38.759
and the Pittsburgh Steelers united to become

00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:41.579
a single team who were called the Steagles. I

00:28:41.579 --> 00:28:44.839
like it. With player numbers so low, they merged

00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:47.259
for one season. It was wartime improvisation

00:28:47.259 --> 00:28:49.319
at its finest and was described by one of their

00:28:49.319 --> 00:28:51.980
players as the NFL taking two bad teams and making

00:28:51.980 --> 00:28:59.079
them worse. Worst of both worlds. So I've got

00:28:59.079 --> 00:29:03.119
a couple of notable war stories because, after

00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:05.259
all, we love a war story. We do. And these are

00:29:05.259 --> 00:29:08.079
two very good war stories, I think. So the first

00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:13.380
one is about a man called Alblosis. Alb? Al Blosis.

00:29:13.500 --> 00:29:17.799
Oh, okay. Nice. Al Blosis. So, Al. Yes. He was,

00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:20.579
shall we say, a towering figure. He was 6 '6

00:29:20.579 --> 00:29:24.440
and 250 pounds. He was an immovable force in

00:29:24.440 --> 00:29:27.160
the offensive line in New York for the New York

00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:31.880
Giants. He was drafted in the fifth round of

00:29:31.880 --> 00:29:34.789
the 1942 NFL Draft. So perhaps it's not a man

00:29:34.789 --> 00:29:36.289
that you want to come across either on a football

00:29:36.289 --> 00:29:40.950
pitch or a battlefield. No. His massive frame

00:29:40.950 --> 00:29:43.509
made him a very imposing offensive tackle in

00:29:43.509 --> 00:29:45.549
the offensive line. And in his rookie season,

00:29:45.630 --> 00:29:49.549
he quickly became a starter for the Giants. For

00:29:49.549 --> 00:29:52.150
two seasons, he powered through defences, showing

00:29:52.150 --> 00:29:53.970
the same strength that made him a track and field

00:29:53.970 --> 00:29:57.869
star as well at college. I bet he was devilishly

00:29:57.869 --> 00:30:02.619
handsome too. His presence was undeniable. But

00:30:02.619 --> 00:30:04.920
war changed that. War changed the direction his

00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:07.680
life takes. He was desperate to join the military.

00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:11.059
So as we were saying, there's reasons people

00:30:11.059 --> 00:30:14.339
might not be in the military. And one reason

00:30:14.339 --> 00:30:18.900
for Al was he simply was too tall to join the

00:30:18.900 --> 00:30:21.240
military. That's mental. They had a size limit

00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:24.220
for practical reasons. Tanks. Yeah, for simply

00:30:24.220 --> 00:30:26.539
fitting within certain transport vehicles and

00:30:26.539 --> 00:30:30.529
also for other logistical reasons. You couldn't

00:30:30.529 --> 00:30:33.829
serve on the front lines as a man of his height.

00:30:34.349 --> 00:30:37.130
But he kept pushing, he kept pushing, kept asking

00:30:37.130 --> 00:30:40.750
for active duty. And as you can imagine, he was

00:30:40.750 --> 00:30:44.009
a persistent man. And eventually he was inducted

00:30:44.009 --> 00:30:47.250
into the army in 1943, initially serving, as

00:30:47.250 --> 00:30:49.049
you probably also would imagine, as a physical

00:30:49.049 --> 00:30:52.029
instructor. But he wasn't happy with a desk job

00:30:52.029 --> 00:30:54.250
and he underwent officer training at Fort Benning.

00:30:54.519 --> 00:30:57.519
And during his officer training, he set an army

00:30:57.519 --> 00:30:59.700
record for the longest hand grenade throw. So

00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:02.000
I should point out that when I say this guy...

00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:06.079
Well, who's keeping those records? I love it.

00:31:06.180 --> 00:31:09.400
I should have mentioned when he was in college,

00:31:09.420 --> 00:31:12.880
he was a shot putter with 17 .61 meters. But

00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:15.960
no one shot puts grenades. And earned him a place

00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:18.660
on the US track and field team and in the track

00:31:18.660 --> 00:31:20.720
and field hall of fame years later, believe it

00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:24.150
or not. but he could throw a grenade 94 yards

00:31:24.150 --> 00:31:27.630
and 2 feet, which is a bit over 80 metres, which

00:31:27.630 --> 00:31:30.130
is a heck of a throw. So he also could have been

00:31:30.130 --> 00:31:33.150
an outfielder in baseball. He probably could

00:31:33.150 --> 00:31:35.269
have been, but he was nicknamed the Human Howitzer

00:31:35.269 --> 00:31:38.329
as a result. Which I think is a very good and

00:31:38.329 --> 00:31:41.049
very fair nickname. That is very good. So he

00:31:41.049 --> 00:31:43.809
was a second lieutenant. He has a gun arm, he's

00:31:43.809 --> 00:31:48.789
6 '6", weighs the same amount as a car, was a

00:31:48.789 --> 00:31:51.930
monster on the defensive line. held a record

00:31:51.930 --> 00:31:54.369
for shot -putting and throwing grenades. And

00:31:54.369 --> 00:31:58.250
demanded to be a front -line soldier in the army.

00:31:58.950 --> 00:32:01.549
Interesting dude. Which he got. He was assigned

00:32:01.549 --> 00:32:05.509
to the 28th Infantry Division as a second lieutenant,

00:32:05.849 --> 00:32:07.269
I should say, because it's the American army,

00:32:07.410 --> 00:32:11.049
not a second luf -tenant. His platoon was in

00:32:11.049 --> 00:32:13.269
the Vosges Mountains of France, scouting enemy

00:32:13.269 --> 00:32:16.930
positions, and on the 21st of January 1945, two

00:32:16.930 --> 00:32:19.230
of his men went missing during a patrol. Without

00:32:19.230 --> 00:32:21.670
hesitation, Al volunteered to search for them

00:32:21.670 --> 00:32:24.250
alone, despite the dangers of the enemy lines.

00:32:24.410 --> 00:32:28.089
Sorry, did you just say alone? Alone. Okay. He

00:32:28.089 --> 00:32:32.569
was never seen again. That's unsurprising. Jesus.

00:32:33.190 --> 00:32:36.150
Do we know what happened to him? So he was initially

00:32:36.150 --> 00:32:39.349
listed as missing in action in April 1945. It

00:32:39.349 --> 00:32:42.990
was confirmed that he had died. His body was

00:32:42.990 --> 00:32:46.230
never recovered, but his legacy and his sacrifice.

00:32:46.910 --> 00:32:49.029
Of course, live on. That's a miserable ending,

00:32:49.109 --> 00:32:51.910
mate. You were gearing me up for like, I don't

00:32:51.910 --> 00:32:54.549
know, whatever the high medal of honour stuff.

00:32:54.869 --> 00:33:00.170
I've got another story. I'm sorry for Al. Yeah.

00:33:01.630 --> 00:33:05.009
The New York Giants retired his number, which

00:33:05.009 --> 00:33:08.269
was a rare gesture at the time. He was inducted

00:33:08.269 --> 00:33:10.190
into the College Football Hall of Fame in 1986.

00:33:11.329 --> 00:33:14.190
And his story even made the comic books where,

00:33:14.309 --> 00:33:16.430
as I said, he was immortalized as the human howitzer.

00:33:17.150 --> 00:33:19.529
But the New York Giants number 32 is still retired

00:33:19.529 --> 00:33:22.289
to this day. That's boss. Yeah. That's a nice

00:33:22.289 --> 00:33:24.670
ending. There's an athletic center in Germany,

00:33:24.869 --> 00:33:27.150
United States Athletic Center, that was named

00:33:27.150 --> 00:33:31.950
after him as well. So, yeah. He's got a legacy

00:33:31.950 --> 00:33:33.970
and rightly so. Yeah, he was a man that when

00:33:33.970 --> 00:33:35.789
duty called, he left behind a very promising

00:33:35.789 --> 00:33:39.410
career for a higher call of service. And paid

00:33:39.410 --> 00:33:44.160
the ultimate price. So that's Al Blosus. Al Blosus

00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:47.099
is a pretty wonderful dude by the sounds of things.

00:33:47.339 --> 00:33:50.000
Yeah. I have another story anyway. A second story.

00:33:51.460 --> 00:33:53.619
I'm not going to say whether this one ends happily

00:33:53.619 --> 00:33:58.859
or not. Oh, okay. So this one starts in 1937

00:33:58.859 --> 00:34:03.559
at Notre Dame. Notre Dame, you mean? Notre Dame,

00:34:03.619 --> 00:34:07.240
I do apologize. 40 ,000 fans watching Notre Dame

00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:10.980
versus USC. Score was tied. The Fighting Irish.

00:34:11.559 --> 00:34:14.480
Full -back Mario Tonelli, wearing number 58,

00:34:14.739 --> 00:34:18.059
burst into the open field with a dazzling 68

00:34:18.059 --> 00:34:20.840
-yard run. He tore towards the Trojan goal line

00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:23.019
and bringing the Fighting Irish to the cusp of

00:34:23.019 --> 00:34:25.219
victory. On the very next play, he drove the

00:34:25.219 --> 00:34:27.860
ball in himself, touched down, the stadium exploded

00:34:27.860 --> 00:34:30.360
with joy. The run will go down in Notre Dame

00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:33.699
history, but for Tonelli, a different future

00:34:33.699 --> 00:34:36.699
was ahead of him. I can't possibly guess what

00:34:36.699 --> 00:34:39.219
it might have been. He was the son of Italian

00:34:39.219 --> 00:34:42.559
immigrants from suburban Chicago. He'd suffered

00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:45.579
burns over a lot of his body when he was a child.

00:34:45.699 --> 00:34:47.820
Doctors saying he might never walk again. But

00:34:47.820 --> 00:34:51.219
both his father and Mario himself didn't accept

00:34:51.219 --> 00:34:53.179
that. He walked, he ran, and he became a football

00:34:53.179 --> 00:34:56.579
star. So in 1940, he was drafted with the 195th

00:34:56.579 --> 00:35:00.659
pick of the draft by the Chicago Cardinals, his

00:35:00.659 --> 00:35:04.219
hometown team. But when the world itself began

00:35:04.219 --> 00:35:07.400
to burn... Mario set aside his game. That was

00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:09.260
very nicely done, can I just say. Thank you.

00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:13.159
Saying he has a duty to serve. He joined the

00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:18.719
army in 1941. And on December 7th, 1941, he was

00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:21.639
stationed at Clarkfield in the Philippines. And

00:35:21.639 --> 00:35:25.940
later that day, bombs fell on Pearl Harbor and

00:35:25.940 --> 00:35:29.440
the United States were drawn into the war. Pearl

00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:34.510
Harbor's quite a historic moment. So he... The

00:35:34.510 --> 00:35:37.730
garrison there held out for five months until

00:35:37.730 --> 00:35:42.449
the 9th of April 1942. He held out with his brothers

00:35:42.449 --> 00:35:45.050
-in -arms, starving, sick in the jungles of Bataan.

00:35:45.650 --> 00:35:48.670
And then came the Bataan Death March, which you

00:35:48.670 --> 00:35:51.190
may have heard of. That doesn't sound nice. 60

00:35:51.190 --> 00:35:53.570
miles with no food and no water, men collapsing

00:35:53.570 --> 00:35:55.889
from first, shot in the back if they slowed down.

00:35:56.750 --> 00:35:59.269
Mario Tonelli was, at the time, 200 pounds of

00:35:59.269 --> 00:36:01.949
muscle and resolve. He was stripped of everything

00:36:01.949 --> 00:36:06.539
except one item. his Notre Dame class ring, which

00:36:06.539 --> 00:36:09.980
he still had on him. A Japanese guard spotted

00:36:09.980 --> 00:36:13.760
it, demanded it. Tonelli refused to hand it over

00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:16.239
until a friend whispered to him, no ring is worth

00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:18.880
dying for. So reluctantly, he handed his ring

00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:21.980
over to the Japanese guard. But just a few moments

00:36:21.980 --> 00:36:25.980
later, this is one of the best things I've listened

00:36:25.980 --> 00:36:28.199
to this. A few moments later, a Japanese officer

00:36:28.199 --> 00:36:31.079
approached him and in perfect English said to

00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:33.260
him, did one of my men take something from you?

00:36:33.820 --> 00:36:36.579
Tonelli nodded and said, yes, my Notre Dame ring.

00:36:36.739 --> 00:36:39.059
And the officer handed it back to him saying,

00:36:39.219 --> 00:36:42.880
I studied in America at USC. I saw the game in

00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:45.860
1937. I know who you are and I know what this

00:36:45.860 --> 00:36:48.820
ring means to you. Whoa. And then he walked away.

00:36:49.340 --> 00:36:52.179
So just in that second, an enemy had become a

00:36:52.179 --> 00:36:55.199
fellow man, a lifeline. That's also, I mean,

00:36:55.219 --> 00:36:57.239
like if anybody knows anything about the general

00:36:57.239 --> 00:37:00.550
history of... the japanese's conduct in world

00:37:00.550 --> 00:37:03.170
war ii they were not renowned for their empathy

00:37:03.170 --> 00:37:07.010
or their humanity at various stages so i mean

00:37:07.010 --> 00:37:09.250
i'm not i'm casting aspersions on all japanese

00:37:09.250 --> 00:37:12.170
soldiers there but those sorts of stories are

00:37:12.170 --> 00:37:15.449
fairly rare i think yeah that's pretty cool um

00:37:15.449 --> 00:37:17.409
he kept the ring hidden anyway for three and

00:37:17.409 --> 00:37:19.710
a half years through the marches through the

00:37:19.710 --> 00:37:22.409
torture through through the marches through torture

00:37:22.409 --> 00:37:25.690
through starvation uh he survived he survived

00:37:25.690 --> 00:37:28.400
forced labor he survived camps He contracted

00:37:28.400 --> 00:37:33.280
malaria, beriberi, parasites. At night, he stared

00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:37.059
at the ring and remembered who he was. And in

00:37:37.059 --> 00:37:39.880
1944, he was packed into the belly of a Japanese

00:37:39.880 --> 00:37:44.440
hell ship to spend 62 days in darkness, in the

00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:48.860
stench with no food, no hope, and eventually

00:37:48.860 --> 00:37:52.000
made it to a labour camp near Yakachi. When he

00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:54.320
was registered, he was handed a uniform and a

00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:56.949
prison number. It was number 58, which was the

00:37:56.949 --> 00:37:59.829
same number he wore. That's taking the piss.

00:38:01.030 --> 00:38:05.349
I like how life does that. At that moment, he

00:38:05.349 --> 00:38:08.070
said to himself, he was going to make it. Well,

00:38:08.090 --> 00:38:10.050
you would, yeah. And he did. Yeah, damn right.

00:38:10.829 --> 00:38:14.170
That summer, American planes flew overhead. One

00:38:14.170 --> 00:38:16.389
dropped a can of cigarettes with a handkerchief

00:38:16.389 --> 00:38:18.829
parachute. It read, hostilities have ceased.

00:38:18.929 --> 00:38:22.329
We will see you soon. That was August 1945. That's

00:38:22.329 --> 00:38:25.420
cute. Barrels of food, medicine, cigarettes came

00:38:25.420 --> 00:38:28.099
after that. When he was liberated, Mario Tonelli

00:38:28.099 --> 00:38:31.440
weighed 98 pounds. Whoa. But he was alive, and

00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:34.300
he still had his ring. Jesus Christ. It's funny,

00:38:34.340 --> 00:38:36.139
though, isn't it? Like, that story, I mean, that's

00:38:36.139 --> 00:38:39.280
actually a nice story. Thanks, Jack. But I do

00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:43.099
think, like, I don't know. Again, without over

00:38:43.099 --> 00:38:46.579
-romanticizing, which is dangerous, but it's

00:38:46.579 --> 00:38:48.179
fun. When people say, like, sport gives people

00:38:48.179 --> 00:38:51.940
hope. Yeah. Like, I do think, like, It can become

00:38:51.940 --> 00:38:56.320
a bit of a cliche. Lots of things give people

00:38:56.320 --> 00:38:58.179
hope, depending on, obviously, your preferences

00:38:58.179 --> 00:39:00.699
and stuff. But stuff like that, I think, is just

00:39:00.699 --> 00:39:06.960
really hard to articulate. Like how that... I

00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:09.400
don't even know what I'm trying to say. I know

00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:10.940
exactly what you mean. You don't really need

00:39:10.940 --> 00:39:17.099
to. It unites. I mean, obviously, a Japanese

00:39:17.099 --> 00:39:19.780
officer... may or may not have certain things

00:39:19.780 --> 00:39:23.659
in common with an American soldier. But to have

00:39:23.659 --> 00:39:26.260
been in that moment, shared an incredible moment

00:39:26.260 --> 00:39:28.519
that was well -reported, that was well -acknowledged,

00:39:28.519 --> 00:39:31.460
and is still remembered to this day, is incredible.

00:39:31.880 --> 00:39:35.159
I think it's because it's fun at its core, right?

00:39:35.340 --> 00:39:39.800
Like, it's all about joy, enjoyment. Honor. Yeah,

00:39:39.860 --> 00:39:43.239
exactly. Respect. Yeah, it's all about the good

00:39:43.239 --> 00:39:46.340
things. At its best. I mean, obviously, sport

00:39:46.340 --> 00:39:50.079
sometimes strays into its worst. But at its best,

00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:53.019
it's all the things that people unanimously value.

00:39:53.500 --> 00:39:56.659
And I think, as you say, it's very hard to deny

00:39:56.659 --> 00:40:00.559
those common denominators and those factors that

00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:02.139
bring people together sometimes. I think that's

00:40:02.139 --> 00:40:04.800
why it's cool. Anyway. Absolutely. Anyway, Mario

00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:08.159
Tonelli, he returned to Chicago. He gained just

00:40:08.159 --> 00:40:11.039
enough weight to play one more game for the Cardinals.

00:40:11.480 --> 00:40:13.039
He was only in for a couple of plays, but it

00:40:13.039 --> 00:40:15.500
meant it was enough to get him his pension, which

00:40:15.500 --> 00:40:18.000
was obviously a very nice gesture from the coaching

00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:22.059
team in Chicago. He turned to service again after

00:40:22.059 --> 00:40:25.960
that in public life, 42 years of work for Cook

00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:30.340
County in Illinois. And he died in January 2003,

00:40:31.059 --> 00:40:35.219
a hero well -remembered by both Notre Dame and

00:40:35.219 --> 00:40:40.320
football fans. Notre Dame. Yeah. Number 58, Mario

00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:42.579
Tonelli. Good story. Yeah, that's a very good

00:40:42.579 --> 00:40:45.280
story. And we've done it. We've, we've, we've

00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:47.679
the war in. Although this one was probably one

00:40:47.679 --> 00:40:51.000
of more, more easier. Yeah. I really liked that

00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:53.239
story. That is a very cool story. Very good story.

00:40:53.380 --> 00:40:56.860
Yeah. So that takes, that's the forties, I assume.

00:40:56.920 --> 00:40:58.500
I've got a little bit more for the forties. You

00:40:58.500 --> 00:41:02.039
can't, can you, can you better that? No, but

00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:04.199
this is going back to pure history. This is not,

00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:07.619
I'll move away from the war now. Okay. But. One

00:41:07.619 --> 00:41:09.980
thing that happened shortly after the war, there

00:41:09.980 --> 00:41:13.539
had been rival leagues to the NFL before the

00:41:13.539 --> 00:41:16.659
war, but just after the war, there was another

00:41:16.659 --> 00:41:20.119
serious attempt to form a rival league, which

00:41:20.119 --> 00:41:22.159
was the All -America Football Conference, the

00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:25.539
AAFC, which was established partly in response

00:41:25.539 --> 00:41:27.900
to the NFL's dominance and the desire to create

00:41:27.900 --> 00:41:30.960
an alternative league, but it was most notable

00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:33.460
for featuring three teams particularly, which

00:41:33.460 --> 00:41:35.630
were... The Cleveland Browns, the San Francisco

00:41:35.630 --> 00:41:38.309
49ers, and the Baltimore Colts. Yeah, this is

00:41:38.309 --> 00:41:39.869
a fairly important bit of history. Yeah, around

00:41:39.869 --> 00:41:42.650
four seasons, and this is actually a good contrast

00:41:42.650 --> 00:41:45.250
because one of the reasons it failed was because

00:41:45.250 --> 00:41:47.889
they did not have a balancing system. They allowed

00:41:47.889 --> 00:41:51.389
the richer teams to sign up all the best of players,

00:41:51.510 --> 00:41:53.809
and the Cleveland Browns won every single championship.

00:41:54.250 --> 00:41:56.630
It struggled financially as a result, but it

00:41:56.630 --> 00:41:59.090
did come up with some innovations which impacted

00:41:59.090 --> 00:42:01.989
the NFL in later years, such as different player

00:42:01.989 --> 00:42:05.059
recruitment methods. and it's comparative play

00:42:05.059 --> 00:42:07.099
as well, grew attention to professional football,

00:42:07.239 --> 00:42:11.320
and also let other potential league starters

00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:14.480
know that it was possible. There was an opportunity

00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:18.260
there if you got your balance right. So the NFL

00:42:18.260 --> 00:42:21.940
expanded once the AAFC folded in 1949. It expanded

00:42:21.940 --> 00:42:24.260
and absorbed those three teams I mentioned, the

00:42:24.260 --> 00:42:26.760
Browns 49ers and Colts, who remain in the league

00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:28.940
to this day, albeit Baltimore Colts are now in

00:42:28.940 --> 00:42:32.239
Indianapolis. Another Baltimore team would emerge,

00:42:32.320 --> 00:42:34.059
though. Another Baltimore team would emerge and

00:42:34.059 --> 00:42:36.940
we will come to more Baltimore later. In fact,

00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:42.440
very soon indeed. So there was also a significant

00:42:42.440 --> 00:42:45.539
impact that the AAFC played in integrating African

00:42:45.539 --> 00:42:47.380
-American players into professional football.

00:42:47.619 --> 00:42:50.840
The NFL had largely excluded black players prior

00:42:50.840 --> 00:42:53.059
to the end of World War II. The AFC, though,

00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:55.260
was more progressive and several teams signed

00:42:55.260 --> 00:42:57.559
several African -American players, most notably

00:42:57.559 --> 00:42:59.539
the Cleveland Browns under coach Paul Brown,

00:42:59.739 --> 00:43:03.019
who did name the team after himself. signed standout

00:43:03.019 --> 00:43:05.300
black players such as marion motley and bill

00:43:05.300 --> 00:43:08.239
willis and when they were integrated themselves

00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:12.300
into the nfl they took the players with them

00:43:12.300 --> 00:43:16.340
and integrated the nfl in doing so um when they

00:43:16.340 --> 00:43:19.119
were absorbed into the nfl in 1950 so there's

00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:21.239
a positive that came out of it yeah that's pretty

00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:23.500
cool and obviously um african american players

00:43:23.980 --> 00:43:28.119
The impact they have played on the NFL is immeasurable.

00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:33.000
I don't know enough about American racial history,

00:43:33.159 --> 00:43:36.480
but there seems to be a theme emerging. Yes,

00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:42.260
a fair bit. Maybe a more positive spin on it,

00:43:42.300 --> 00:43:43.500
and this might be an extremely ignorant thing

00:43:43.500 --> 00:43:45.599
for me to say, but it does seem as though sport

00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:49.860
led the way again, though, in terms of... Well,

00:43:49.980 --> 00:43:52.119
to a certain extent. You can say for positive

00:43:52.119 --> 00:43:54.650
and negative reasons. Ultimately, what it comes

00:43:54.650 --> 00:43:57.190
down to is if owners are willing to look over

00:43:57.190 --> 00:44:00.110
their bias because they want to win. I'm not

00:44:00.110 --> 00:44:03.829
suggesting the motivations were pure, but at

00:44:03.829 --> 00:44:06.869
least the opportunities may have arisen. Obviously,

00:44:07.090 --> 00:44:09.909
Jackie Robinson is rightly lauded to this day

00:44:09.909 --> 00:44:12.289
for breaking the colour barrier in baseball.

00:44:12.469 --> 00:44:14.889
It was celebrated a few days ago, actually, April

00:44:14.889 --> 00:44:17.989
15th. Every year is Jackie Robinson Day in the

00:44:17.989 --> 00:44:22.449
MLB, where every player wears his number, number

00:44:22.449 --> 00:44:24.969
42. And the rest of the year, no one wears number

00:44:24.969 --> 00:44:27.730
42 anymore. It has been retired league -wide.

00:44:27.849 --> 00:44:30.869
So it's something. But yeah, I mean, we could

00:44:30.869 --> 00:44:32.730
do a whole episode on that stuff. We could do

00:44:32.730 --> 00:44:34.469
a whole episode on that stuff, yeah. Honestly.

00:44:34.949 --> 00:44:38.210
Nevertheless, that sets you up for the 1950s.

00:44:38.349 --> 00:44:40.269
And this is probably... Not long to go, guys.

00:44:40.309 --> 00:44:44.070
Just 70 years. Oh yeah, we'll be fine. Stick

00:44:44.070 --> 00:44:52.030
with us. Yeah. 1950s was probably where NFL...

00:44:52.460 --> 00:44:55.159
Some call it the golden era of the sport, as

00:44:55.159 --> 00:44:56.960
you would imagine, but it's probably the era

00:44:56.960 --> 00:45:00.739
in which the NFL truly started to become the

00:45:00.739 --> 00:45:03.300
biggest sports league in America, or certainly

00:45:03.300 --> 00:45:06.000
worked towards it. And we're going to take a

00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:08.599
trip back in time to the soot -stroke neighbourhoods

00:45:08.599 --> 00:45:10.900
of Pittsburgh once more, where a boy with a buzz

00:45:10.900 --> 00:45:13.179
cut in a dream grew up hauling coal to put food

00:45:13.179 --> 00:45:16.239
on the table. His name was Johnny Unitas, and

00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:18.340
by the time he left the game, they called him

00:45:18.340 --> 00:45:20.940
the Golden Arm, which I think tells you a lot

00:45:20.940 --> 00:45:24.610
about him. But at the time, before a history

00:45:24.610 --> 00:45:26.949
-making day in 1958, he was just a skinny kid

00:45:26.949 --> 00:45:29.630
trying to prove he belonged. Johnny U's story

00:45:29.630 --> 00:45:31.469
doesn't begin with trophies, it begins with tragedy.

00:45:32.030 --> 00:45:34.190
His father died when he was just five years old,

00:45:34.309 --> 00:45:36.389
his mother worked multiple jobs to keep the family

00:45:36.389 --> 00:45:38.829
afloat, and at just eight years old, he was hauling

00:45:38.829 --> 00:45:42.590
coal after school to help out. He wasn't big

00:45:42.590 --> 00:45:45.829
when he got to college, or when he was trying

00:45:45.829 --> 00:45:48.389
to get into college. He barely scratched 130

00:45:48.389 --> 00:45:52.280
pounds soaking wet. 5 '10", 130 pounds, trying

00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:55.079
to play quarterback and wasn't getting much attention.

00:45:55.500 --> 00:45:57.420
Notre Dame took one look at him and said he was

00:45:57.420 --> 00:45:59.219
too small, but Louisville took a chance on him.

00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:02.780
Even there, it is alleged that the coach initially

00:46:02.780 --> 00:46:04.699
mistook him for the water boy when he first walked

00:46:04.699 --> 00:46:07.519
out onto the field. But he did grow, not just

00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:10.739
in height, he hit 6 '1", but in resolve and in

00:46:10.739 --> 00:46:14.440
ability too. 6 '1 and 170 pounds, I think he

00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:17.679
was, 180 pounds maybe. By the time the 1955 draft

00:46:17.679 --> 00:46:20.960
came around, the Steelers were willing to take

00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:23.760
a punt on the hometown kid in the ninth round,

00:46:23.860 --> 00:46:27.119
the 102nd pick overall. Chance to become a hometown

00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:30.519
hero? Not quite. They didn't even let him suit

00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:33.159
up for a game, not even in preseason. They had

00:46:33.159 --> 00:46:35.519
three quarterbacks on their roster ahead of him,

00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:38.260
and they never took a chance on him, never looked

00:46:38.260 --> 00:46:40.739
at him, and they cut him before the season began

00:46:40.739 --> 00:46:45.760
in 1955. And he was understandably... Frustrated

00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:47.639
by that. Yeah, I'd be pissed off. When the coach

00:46:47.639 --> 00:46:50.000
cut him, he said to the coach, I wouldn't mind

00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:52.239
if you'd taken a look at me, but you haven't.

00:46:52.420 --> 00:46:54.179
You didn't give me a chance and you're just cutting

00:46:54.179 --> 00:46:57.300
me. He had a baby at home and bills piling up.

00:46:57.480 --> 00:46:59.559
So he went to work on a construction crew whilst

00:46:59.559 --> 00:47:01.800
moonlighting as a semi -pro quarterback for the

00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:05.199
Bloomfield Rams, playing offense, defense, and

00:47:05.199 --> 00:47:07.519
special teams. If there was a snap to be played,

00:47:07.659 --> 00:47:10.400
Johnny Yu was there for it. I'd like to know

00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:12.900
if Johnny Yu looks back on that period more fondly

00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:15.619
than he does on his NFL career, which presumably

00:47:15.619 --> 00:47:18.059
is going to be forthcoming. There is more coming.

00:47:18.159 --> 00:47:20.059
But yeah, I mean, he led the Rams through an

00:47:20.059 --> 00:47:22.059
undefeated season and their championship, albeit

00:47:22.059 --> 00:47:26.099
in a minor semi -professional league. But as

00:47:26.099 --> 00:47:28.400
a result of that, word got out. And one day,

00:47:28.420 --> 00:47:30.639
Don Kellett of the Baltimore Colts picked up

00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:34.349
the phone. The Colts weren't NFL royalty. In

00:47:34.349 --> 00:47:36.250
their three seasons since entering the league

00:47:36.250 --> 00:47:40.630
again, a team called the Colts originally entered

00:47:40.630 --> 00:47:42.590
the league, as I mentioned before. They actually

00:47:42.590 --> 00:47:45.369
folded and a new Baltimore Colts came up in 1953.

00:47:45.750 --> 00:47:47.730
But they never won more than five games in a

00:47:47.730 --> 00:47:49.190
season since they entered the league. They were

00:47:49.190 --> 00:47:52.949
not big shots. But with Johnny Unitas on the

00:47:52.949 --> 00:47:56.849
center, everything changed. From 1957 to 1971,

00:47:57.449 --> 00:48:01.139
the Colts never had a losing season. Johnny Unitas

00:48:01.139 --> 00:48:04.260
once threw touchdown in 47 consecutive games,

00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:07.380
which was a record that was untouched until Drew

00:48:07.380 --> 00:48:10.300
Brees passed it in 2012. He was no slouch either.

00:48:10.679 --> 00:48:13.519
And he did it in a brutal era for quarterbacks,

00:48:13.579 --> 00:48:16.500
which is now called the dead ball era. Minimal

00:48:16.500 --> 00:48:18.659
quarterback protection, receivers jammed and

00:48:18.659 --> 00:48:21.320
hit all the way downfield. No domes, obviously,

00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:24.139
exposed to the weather, no turf, just cold, mud

00:48:24.139 --> 00:48:27.280
and pain. Yeah, that sounds pretty cool, to be

00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:29.500
fair. Better than today's game where you... Half

00:48:29.500 --> 00:48:31.059
a millisecond late. I think there's a reason

00:48:31.059 --> 00:48:32.940
people refer to it as the golden age. I think

00:48:32.940 --> 00:48:34.900
there might be old -timers out there who probably

00:48:34.900 --> 00:48:37.739
like the blood and the mud and the spit and the

00:48:37.739 --> 00:48:39.960
tears. As long as it's not barbaric, but the

00:48:39.960 --> 00:48:42.000
way they're protected these days is just a bit

00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:44.320
dark. Yeah, they certainly are. You could argue

00:48:44.320 --> 00:48:46.000
they're overprotected now, but again, that's

00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:47.599
a debate for another day. Yeah, I should probably

00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:50.019
quickly say, for those that are uninitiated with

00:48:50.019 --> 00:48:52.820
American football, a losing season is basically

00:48:52.820 --> 00:48:54.980
a season where you lose more than you win. American

00:48:54.980 --> 00:48:57.079
football, how many regular season games are there

00:48:57.079 --> 00:48:59.750
now? 17 now so if you have a 9 -8 record that

00:48:59.750 --> 00:49:01.789
would be a winning season an 8 -9 record or worse

00:49:01.789 --> 00:49:03.949
would be a losing season there you go essentially

00:49:03.949 --> 00:49:07.449
thanks Jack yeah so when I say the Colts never

00:49:07.449 --> 00:49:10.110
had a losing season between 1957 -1961 they always

00:49:10.110 --> 00:49:11.869
won more games than they lost which is usually

00:49:11.869 --> 00:49:14.929
gets you around and about the playoffs yeah usually

00:49:14.929 --> 00:49:18.409
a 9 -8 record nowadays you probably be in the

00:49:18.409 --> 00:49:21.570
playoffs one every two seasons yeah yeah depends

00:49:21.570 --> 00:49:24.610
on other factors but if you get 10 -7 you're

00:49:24.610 --> 00:49:27.530
normally in the playoffs But then a game came,

00:49:27.710 --> 00:49:31.110
or a game in the era came that would change the

00:49:31.110 --> 00:49:34.909
NFL forever. It was December the 28th, 1958 at

00:49:34.909 --> 00:49:37.929
Yankee Stadium. The Colts had finished the season

00:49:37.929 --> 00:49:40.750
with the best record in their division and had

00:49:40.750 --> 00:49:43.309
reached what was then the NFL championship game.

00:49:43.750 --> 00:49:45.730
They were playing the New York Giants, the all

00:49:45.730 --> 00:49:48.750
-conquering New York Giants. There was a national

00:49:48.750 --> 00:49:51.570
TV audience and there was 15 future Hall of Famers

00:49:51.570 --> 00:49:53.690
on the field and even more on the sidelines.

00:49:54.299 --> 00:49:56.639
on the sidelines for the Giants. Their offense

00:49:56.639 --> 00:49:58.860
was being called by Vince Lombardi, who would

00:49:58.860 --> 00:50:00.800
later become a legendary Green Bay Packers coach.

00:50:01.519 --> 00:50:06.659
Also, the trophy is named after him. To say Vince

00:50:06.659 --> 00:50:09.239
Lombardi is a legend is not a statement. The

00:50:09.239 --> 00:50:11.059
Lombardi trophy is a trophy given to the Super

00:50:11.059 --> 00:50:13.320
Bowl winners after the Green Bay Packers won

00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:15.619
the first two Super Bowls. Their defense, the

00:50:15.619 --> 00:50:18.539
Giants' defense, was coached by Tom Landry, who

00:50:18.539 --> 00:50:21.920
also became a legend for the Dallas Cowboys and

00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:24.820
the Super Bowl winner. And on the Colts' sideline,

00:50:24.820 --> 00:50:28.599
there was Weeb Ubank, who was the future coach

00:50:28.599 --> 00:50:30.679
of the New York Jets when they won their one

00:50:30.679 --> 00:50:34.079
and only Super Bowl, Super Bowl III. The game

00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:37.300
was a slugfest. The Giants had a 17 -14 lead

00:50:37.300 --> 00:50:39.619
late in the fourth quarter. The Colts were pinned

00:50:39.619 --> 00:50:42.179
back on their own 14 line. This is where Johnny

00:50:42.179 --> 00:50:44.460
U wrote his name into history. There's something

00:50:44.460 --> 00:50:46.659
they have in football that they call a two -minute

00:50:46.659 --> 00:50:50.420
drill. That is... It is literally a drill you

00:50:50.420 --> 00:50:52.179
will do over and over again. And it is for a

00:50:52.179 --> 00:50:54.840
situation where you are near your own goal line

00:50:54.840 --> 00:50:56.820
with two minutes on the clock and you have to

00:50:56.820 --> 00:50:59.260
get it down the other end to score a touchdown

00:50:59.260 --> 00:51:01.579
or a field goal to save the game or to win the

00:51:01.579 --> 00:51:07.179
game. And it is something that is practiced relentlessly

00:51:07.179 --> 00:51:12.119
today. And Johnny Unitas demonstrated a perfect

00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:15.320
example of it in difficult circumstances in this

00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:19.179
1958 NFL championship game. Threw passers forward.

00:51:19.380 --> 00:51:22.000
Raymond Berry, his major receiver, caught a couple

00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:23.760
of them. He moved the team forward with surgical

00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:26.360
precision. He was controlling time as he did

00:51:26.360 --> 00:51:29.260
it. And in just over a minute, he drove the Colts

00:51:29.260 --> 00:51:32.500
86 yards to set up a field goal and force overtime,

00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:34.719
which is the first sudden death overtime ever

00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:37.360
in an NFL championship game. That's fine. Which

00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:38.940
is a rare occurrence, even in the Super Bowl

00:51:38.940 --> 00:51:42.519
to this day. From there, Unitas orchestrated

00:51:42.519 --> 00:51:45.360
a drive that took the breath out of Yankee Stadium.

00:51:45.480 --> 00:51:48.340
13 plays, 80 yards. down to the Giants' one -yard

00:51:48.340 --> 00:51:50.519
line, and then he handed it off to Alan Amici,

00:51:50.679 --> 00:51:53.039
who ran it over the line for a big hole created

00:51:53.039 --> 00:51:57.159
and sealed the game and sealed the NFL championship

00:51:57.159 --> 00:52:00.780
for the Colts. 23 -17, the first sudden -death

00:52:00.780 --> 00:52:03.559
NFL championship and the first time the entire

00:52:03.559 --> 00:52:06.500
country had seen professional football essentially

00:52:06.500 --> 00:52:08.340
as something to be cherished. It wasn't just

00:52:08.340 --> 00:52:11.599
a game. It was the moment, it has been argued,

00:52:11.880 --> 00:52:15.150
that the NFL became America's game. 45 million

00:52:15.150 --> 00:52:17.190
viewers watched it on national TV, which was

00:52:17.190 --> 00:52:20.190
unheard of in 1958. Yeah, yeah. Didn't even know

00:52:20.190 --> 00:52:22.949
that many people had TVs. Yeah, exactly. It transformed

00:52:22.949 --> 00:52:25.250
the league from a second -tier sport into, I

00:52:25.250 --> 00:52:27.489
mean, almost a national obsession. And right

00:52:27.489 --> 00:52:29.590
at the centre of it all was Johnny Yu. Cool,

00:52:29.610 --> 00:52:32.130
commanding, unbreakable. Grit, vision, determination.

00:52:32.809 --> 00:52:35.349
Never say die attitude. He was called the first

00:52:35.349 --> 00:52:37.769
modern quarterback, dictating play with his arm,

00:52:37.869 --> 00:52:41.550
passing forward. On this cold December twilight

00:52:41.550 --> 00:52:43.530
in front of millions of fans, he became a legend.

00:52:44.130 --> 00:52:47.769
That is a good story. He comes up again. He won

00:52:47.769 --> 00:52:50.670
a Super Bowl later as well, albeit at the twilight

00:52:50.670 --> 00:52:53.949
of his career. He missed a lot of that game as

00:52:53.949 --> 00:52:56.030
well because he got injured. As I mentioned as

00:52:56.030 --> 00:52:58.070
well, this was a time where quarterbacks did

00:52:58.070 --> 00:52:59.989
not have the protection they got now. They were

00:52:59.989 --> 00:53:02.449
hit and they were hit hard. When they did, there

00:53:02.449 --> 00:53:05.050
were injuries coming. It is relatively rare.

00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:07.320
for quarterbacks to get injured nowadays. Well,

00:53:07.340 --> 00:53:08.800
it's extremely rare, isn't it? Because they get

00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:12.860
so looked after. I mean, again, me and you chew

00:53:12.860 --> 00:53:16.260
the fat over this stuff in a way that presupposes

00:53:16.260 --> 00:53:18.780
a degree of knowledge. For anyone who is interested,

00:53:19.039 --> 00:53:22.860
a quarterback is just the guy. He's like, every

00:53:22.860 --> 00:53:24.480
play goes through him. He's the most important

00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:28.500
player on the pitch. Think of Fly Half in rugby,

00:53:28.579 --> 00:53:32.480
if you're familiar with rugby. trying to compare

00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:34.179
it to another sport maybe even football it'd

00:53:34.179 --> 00:53:37.980
probably be your central midfielder um yeah like

00:53:37.980 --> 00:53:40.579
the most iconic dude like yes yeah the team leader

00:53:40.579 --> 00:53:43.820
everything um the quarterbacks have much higher

00:53:43.820 --> 00:53:46.980
uh draft capital as they call it they go for

00:53:46.980 --> 00:53:51.159
uh much higher in the draft than other positions

00:53:51.159 --> 00:53:53.059
traditionally and teams will often take gambles

00:53:53.059 --> 00:53:55.320
on quarterbacks that they wouldn't necessarily

00:53:55.320 --> 00:53:57.400
take in other positions it is the key positions

00:53:57.400 --> 00:54:02.099
only play on offense yes Yeah, it's an interesting

00:54:02.099 --> 00:54:07.679
thing. It was probably around this time in 1958,

00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:10.639
that sort of time, where you would have players

00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:14.199
who only played offence or defence. It was called

00:54:14.199 --> 00:54:16.340
the two -platoon system. There's a geezer in

00:54:16.340 --> 00:54:18.420
this year's draft who can do both, isn't there?

00:54:18.519 --> 00:54:20.659
I will be coming to it. Yeah, there is. It's

00:54:20.659 --> 00:54:22.960
fairly rare that you get players who play offence

00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:25.059
and defence because it is such a demanding sport

00:54:25.059 --> 00:54:27.019
and it's such a specialised sport. There's not

00:54:27.019 --> 00:54:29.789
really any benefit to it. But back in the day,

00:54:29.869 --> 00:54:32.250
certainly in the early days, the 1920s and 30s,

00:54:32.269 --> 00:54:34.510
you'd have 11 players who'd start the game and

00:54:34.510 --> 00:54:36.769
finish the game. And they'd have positional offense

00:54:36.769 --> 00:54:40.469
and defense. That changed. Eventually, they liberalized

00:54:40.469 --> 00:54:42.630
the substitution rules so you could sub out your

00:54:42.630 --> 00:54:44.349
whole team essentially between players when you

00:54:44.349 --> 00:54:47.130
switch from offense to defense. And you'd still

00:54:47.130 --> 00:54:49.050
have players playing both, but maybe your quarterbacks

00:54:49.050 --> 00:54:51.809
or maybe your key running backs or whatever it

00:54:51.809 --> 00:54:55.460
be would only play one of the two. It changes

00:54:55.460 --> 00:54:58.360
over time, but it is. I think it's a cool thing

00:54:58.360 --> 00:55:00.519
because it also opens up opportunities for more

00:55:00.519 --> 00:55:02.380
people. It does, yeah. Different skill sets.

00:55:02.500 --> 00:55:04.900
People get, like you said, specialists in certain

00:55:04.900 --> 00:55:08.019
positions or roles, certain body compositions.

00:55:08.940 --> 00:55:11.340
Yes. Better opportunities, that sort of thing.

00:55:11.340 --> 00:55:13.500
A bit like rugby in that sense. There's a position

00:55:13.500 --> 00:55:14.679
for everyone. There's a position for everyone,

00:55:14.699 --> 00:55:17.699
exactly. It doesn't matter whether you're a big

00:55:17.699 --> 00:55:20.599
guy or a small guy. You can be a punter. You

00:55:20.599 --> 00:55:23.119
can be a field goal kicker. You can be a quarterback.

00:55:23.929 --> 00:55:26.090
yeah some of my favorite players in the NFL are

00:55:26.090 --> 00:55:28.010
kickers especially kicks and punters because

00:55:28.010 --> 00:55:30.030
you look at them and be like there is no way

00:55:30.030 --> 00:55:31.969
you're a professional sportsman in your life

00:55:31.969 --> 00:55:35.789
your lanky look and everything but hey if you

00:55:35.789 --> 00:55:37.969
can nail a field goal from 60 yards you're a

00:55:37.969 --> 00:55:42.150
sportsman in anyone's book so precisely yeah

00:55:42.150 --> 00:55:44.730
so I took us off on a tangent there only because

00:55:44.730 --> 00:55:48.130
it's a highly technical sport that I've not even

00:55:48.130 --> 00:55:50.010
got my head fully around so I imagine that we

00:55:50.010 --> 00:55:51.829
need to make it a little bit accessible every

00:55:51.829 --> 00:55:54.079
now and again We've only got six decades left

00:55:54.079 --> 00:55:59.659
anyway. 1960. So the single most important thing

00:55:59.659 --> 00:56:02.039
to happen probably in the history of the NFL

00:56:02.039 --> 00:56:04.679
happened in the 1960s. In fact, why am I even

00:56:04.679 --> 00:56:06.659
saying probably? The single most important thing

00:56:06.659 --> 00:56:08.619
to ever happen in the history of the NFL happened

00:56:08.619 --> 00:56:11.400
in 1960. And what was that? In 1960, a group

00:56:11.400 --> 00:56:13.579
of frustrated and quite wealthy businessmen,

00:56:13.639 --> 00:56:16.340
many of whom had been denied NFL ownership as

00:56:16.340 --> 00:56:18.519
the NFL were reluctant to expand from their 12

00:56:18.519 --> 00:56:21.900
-team setup that they had at the end of the 50s.

00:56:22.219 --> 00:56:25.719
decided instead to start their own league, as

00:56:25.719 --> 00:56:28.420
has happened previously. Only this time, what

00:56:28.420 --> 00:56:31.659
they had that other leagues didn't have was extremely

00:56:31.659 --> 00:56:35.760
deep pockets and the patience to let there be

00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:37.820
losses for the first few seasons before they

00:56:37.820 --> 00:56:39.940
established themselves. The league they formed

00:56:39.940 --> 00:56:41.780
was called the American Football League, the

00:56:41.780 --> 00:56:44.820
AFL. As I said, they were ambitious, well -funded,

00:56:44.980 --> 00:56:47.820
ready to disrupt the status quo and ready to

00:56:47.820 --> 00:56:51.610
break the stranglehold that the NFL had. on domestic

00:56:51.610 --> 00:56:54.349
professional football. It was mocked as the Mickey

00:56:54.349 --> 00:56:58.289
Mouse League at first, and even by the business

00:56:58.289 --> 00:57:00.610
themselves, they called it the Foolish Club when

00:57:00.610 --> 00:57:02.909
they first started up, fully aware of the amount

00:57:02.909 --> 00:57:04.969
of money they were putting on the line to do

00:57:04.969 --> 00:57:08.550
so. But one of the main ways the AFL managed

00:57:08.550 --> 00:57:10.989
to establish itself as a successful league in

00:57:10.989 --> 00:57:14.230
the early days was through the draft. The AFL

00:57:14.230 --> 00:57:18.190
draft happened, well, often it happened on the

00:57:18.190 --> 00:57:20.829
same day as the NFL draft. They used to... sort

00:57:20.829 --> 00:57:23.630
of jockey for position within it because players

00:57:23.630 --> 00:57:25.670
could be drafted by the AFL and NFL and at that

00:57:25.670 --> 00:57:27.949
point a bidding war would begin to try and get

00:57:27.949 --> 00:57:29.510
the players to play for you. So it was the same

00:57:29.510 --> 00:57:32.530
draft? No, at first it was two different drafts.

00:57:32.530 --> 00:57:34.809
So just declaring for the same talent, weren't

00:57:34.809 --> 00:57:37.949
they? Yeah, so guys just declared to both drafts.

00:57:37.949 --> 00:57:41.650
Right, okay. Yeah, so in the early days, someone

00:57:41.650 --> 00:57:44.349
like a major star like Billy Cannon, who was

00:57:44.349 --> 00:57:47.909
a 1959 Heisman Trophy winner, he signed with

00:57:47.909 --> 00:57:51.179
the AFL. in the end, for the Houston Oilers,

00:57:51.280 --> 00:57:54.199
who are now the Tennessee Titans, for a record

00:57:54.199 --> 00:57:56.980
signing bonus. Even after making a handshake

00:57:56.980 --> 00:57:59.900
deal with the NFL's Rams, sparking a contract

00:57:59.900 --> 00:58:01.960
controversy went all the way to court, but was

00:58:01.960 --> 00:58:05.380
found in the favor of the AFL. And things escalated

00:58:05.380 --> 00:58:07.900
from there. The AFL and NFL began bidding wars

00:58:07.900 --> 00:58:10.480
over top prospects. Players like Tommy Nobis,

00:58:10.699 --> 00:58:12.719
dominant linebacker from Texas, were offered

00:58:12.719 --> 00:58:16.219
staggering sums by both leagues. Nobis eventually

00:58:16.219 --> 00:58:19.889
chose the NFL, the Falcons, in 1966. And then

00:58:19.889 --> 00:58:22.949
came Joe Namath, the flashy quarterback from

00:58:22.949 --> 00:58:26.289
Alabama. The AFL's New York Jets shattered records

00:58:26.289 --> 00:58:30.190
by signing him for $427 ,000, which was the largest

00:58:30.190 --> 00:58:32.110
contract in the history of football at the time

00:58:32.110 --> 00:58:35.670
and really validated the AFL's legitimacy and

00:58:35.670 --> 00:58:37.769
made Joe Namath a national star and made the

00:58:37.769 --> 00:58:40.510
New York Jets into the champions in the end.

00:58:40.610 --> 00:58:42.949
So there you go. Your New York Jets. There you

00:58:42.949 --> 00:58:48.710
go. The NFL owners were increasingly alarmed

00:58:48.710 --> 00:58:51.329
by this. To deal with sort of the skyrocketing

00:58:51.329 --> 00:58:54.070
salaries, age and manipulation, they start creating

00:58:54.070 --> 00:58:56.690
a hand -holding program, essentially a coordinated

00:58:56.690 --> 00:58:59.690
effort to babysit potential draft picks before

00:58:59.690 --> 00:59:03.570
the draft to A, stop AFL scouts or owners getting

00:59:03.570 --> 00:59:07.570
their claws on them, and B, to keep them separate

00:59:07.570 --> 00:59:09.829
from the media furore that was going on before

00:59:09.829 --> 00:59:12.130
the draft itself. They'd essentially hire lovely

00:59:12.130 --> 00:59:14.809
resorts or whatever else and... stick them in

00:59:14.809 --> 00:59:16.869
there just put them in there with a minder yeah

00:59:16.869 --> 00:59:19.469
well the NFL tended to have a minder the AFL

00:59:19.469 --> 00:59:22.210
tended to get flashy results because as I mentioned

00:59:22.210 --> 00:59:25.230
deep pockets they were rich yeah and yeah it

00:59:25.230 --> 00:59:27.329
wasn't working for the NFL though veteran NFL

00:59:27.329 --> 00:59:29.550
players as well who were suddenly earning less

00:59:29.550 --> 00:59:31.690
than the new rookies with the rookies having

00:59:31.690 --> 00:59:36.190
to be paid so much more to get to agree to contracts

00:59:36.190 --> 00:59:39.650
started showing resent against them there was

00:59:39.650 --> 00:59:42.280
rising discontent in locker rooms Rookies having

00:59:42.280 --> 00:59:44.500
played down were driving sports cars and cashing

00:59:44.500 --> 00:59:47.360
bigger checks than pro bowlers. And so we got

00:59:47.360 --> 00:59:49.139
to the point where Dan Rooney of the Pittsburgh

00:59:49.139 --> 00:59:51.119
Steelers said, the bidding wars were ruining

00:59:51.119 --> 00:59:53.460
us. The AFL team seemed to have money to burn.

00:59:54.440 --> 00:59:57.599
Which they did, by the sounds of things. It all

00:59:57.599 --> 01:00:01.119
escalated. So for a while, an unwritten agreement

01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:03.360
existed between the leagues, which was essentially

01:00:03.360 --> 01:00:05.880
don't sign each other's players. So it was an

01:00:05.880 --> 01:00:08.400
unwritten rule where if someone was drafted in

01:00:08.400 --> 01:00:10.420
the AFL, they'd stay in the AFL. If they went

01:00:10.420 --> 01:00:13.300
to free agency, They were a free game for AFL

01:00:13.300 --> 01:00:14.800
teams, but NFL teams would leave them alone.

01:00:15.179 --> 01:00:16.619
Basically, once you were in a league, you were

01:00:16.619 --> 01:00:19.760
in that league for life. This ended in 1966 when

01:00:19.760 --> 01:00:22.539
the New York Giants of the NFL broke ranks and

01:00:22.539 --> 01:00:25.539
signed Pete Gogolak, who was an AFL star kicker

01:00:25.539 --> 01:00:28.239
from the Buffalo Bills. Gogolak wasn't just any

01:00:28.239 --> 01:00:30.000
kicker. He was the first soccer -style place

01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:33.440
kicker in pro football history and helped revolutionize

01:00:33.440 --> 01:00:35.400
both the position and that style of kicking.

01:00:36.380 --> 01:00:39.050
His signing infuriated both leagues. He'd go

01:00:39.050 --> 01:00:40.849
on to become the Giants' all -time leading scorer

01:00:40.849 --> 01:00:43.690
with 646 points, which I believe he is still

01:00:43.690 --> 01:00:46.710
to this day. As a kicker? As a kicker, yeah.

01:00:46.909 --> 01:00:48.769
Jesus Christ, how many field goals does he kick?

01:00:49.130 --> 01:00:53.510
Oh, plenty. I mean, I might whilst you're talking.

01:00:53.670 --> 01:00:56.429
Yeah. But don't forget extra points as well.

01:00:56.690 --> 01:00:58.489
Oh, yeah, true. I don't know if I'd be able to

01:00:58.489 --> 01:01:01.630
do it, but go on. But as I said, the move ignited

01:01:01.630 --> 01:01:04.829
an absolute firestorm. So the AFL retaliated

01:01:04.829 --> 01:01:07.050
by targeting big -name NFL players. They were...

01:01:07.320 --> 01:01:10.139
signing players before their contracts even expired

01:01:10.139 --> 01:01:12.179
in the NFL, like getting pre -contract agreements

01:01:12.179 --> 01:01:15.900
in place. Behind the scenes, there were cooler

01:01:15.900 --> 01:01:18.679
heads who saw the writing on the wall. Both leagues

01:01:18.679 --> 01:01:20.920
were bleeding money. It was to no one's benefit.

01:01:21.199 --> 01:01:23.699
And there started being secret talks in the background.

01:01:24.119 --> 01:01:27.340
Maybe, maybe it would be better if we just joined

01:01:27.340 --> 01:01:29.699
forces here. So competition was great for players.

01:01:29.780 --> 01:01:32.079
It was devastating for the owners, especially

01:01:32.079 --> 01:01:34.559
the more traditional and less wealthy NFL ones.

01:01:35.119 --> 01:01:37.380
Quiet talks began between NFL Commissioner Pete

01:01:37.380 --> 01:01:40.699
Rozelle and AFL executives. Most of the owners,

01:01:40.760 --> 01:01:43.340
though, were kept in the dark over this. As talks

01:01:43.340 --> 01:01:46.400
intensified, the AFL Commissioner Joe Foss was

01:01:46.400 --> 01:01:48.260
forced to resign because he was viewed as too

01:01:48.260 --> 01:01:50.880
soft. He was replaced by the absolutely not too

01:01:50.880 --> 01:01:54.460
soft Raiders coach and owner Al Davis, who had

01:01:54.460 --> 01:01:57.119
personally expressed no intention of merging.

01:01:57.699 --> 01:01:59.840
Davis believed the AFL could win the war, so

01:01:59.840 --> 01:02:02.420
he doubled down. He made sure... Pre -contract

01:02:02.420 --> 01:02:04.420
agreements were signed with NFL stars like Mike

01:02:04.420 --> 01:02:07.960
Dicker, John Brody, even if they wouldn't join

01:02:07.960 --> 01:02:10.440
until their current deals ended. Mike Dicker,

01:02:10.460 --> 01:02:12.400
who would go on to become a coach. Yeah, he would.

01:02:13.639 --> 01:02:16.480
And Rozelle and the NFL owners panicked. This

01:02:16.480 --> 01:02:19.739
arms race, as I said, was unsustainable. Some

01:02:19.739 --> 01:02:22.139
negotiations carried on even behind Al Davis

01:02:22.139 --> 01:02:25.280
back, and it eventually led on the 8th of June

01:02:25.280 --> 01:02:28.539
1966 to an announcement that the AFL and NFL

01:02:28.539 --> 01:02:31.250
would be merging. And what's that resulted in?

01:02:31.610 --> 01:02:35.530
For the purpose of this episode, the most significant

01:02:35.530 --> 01:02:38.449
thing it resulted in was from 1967 there would

01:02:38.449 --> 01:02:41.010
be a common draft. There would be a single draft

01:02:41.010 --> 01:02:44.809
from 1967. The leagues would stay in their current

01:02:44.809 --> 01:02:47.269
alignment and only playing games internally during

01:02:47.269 --> 01:02:50.070
the regular season. But there would be an NFL

01:02:50.070 --> 01:02:52.829
-AFL championship game every season, which was

01:02:52.829 --> 01:02:56.559
later rebranded the Super Bowl. And there we

01:02:56.559 --> 01:02:59.039
are. There we are. That's the modern format.

01:02:59.219 --> 01:03:01.239
So there's a man called Lamar Hunt who came up

01:03:01.239 --> 01:03:03.440
with that name. And Lamar Hunt is an excellent

01:03:03.440 --> 01:03:05.360
guy. I could go, again, I could do a whole episode

01:03:05.360 --> 01:03:06.719
on him, so I'm just going to skim through it.

01:03:06.780 --> 01:03:10.579
But he's a famous executive in both American

01:03:10.579 --> 01:03:12.360
football for these purposes. He's one of the

01:03:12.360 --> 01:03:16.900
architects of the AFL. He also was instrumental

01:03:16.900 --> 01:03:21.099
in forming Major League Soccer and the American

01:03:21.099 --> 01:03:25.030
Open Cup, the US Open Cup is named for him. And

01:03:25.030 --> 01:03:27.849
was also instrumental in taking the steps to

01:03:27.849 --> 01:03:29.630
form the organizations, which eventually became

01:03:29.630 --> 01:03:33.210
the ATP as well. Oh, really? Yeah, so the tennis...

01:03:33.210 --> 01:03:35.090
He's a love sport then. Tennis tour, yeah. So

01:03:35.090 --> 01:03:38.150
he's in the Hall of Fame, I believe, for all

01:03:38.150 --> 01:03:41.030
three sports, for soccer, for football, and for

01:03:41.030 --> 01:03:44.449
tennis. So I'm going to refer to it as soccer

01:03:44.449 --> 01:03:45.889
and football for this episode. Yeah, I know,

01:03:45.909 --> 01:03:47.469
which is a little bit vomit -inducing. I apologize

01:03:47.469 --> 01:03:50.710
to everyone who doesn't like that. But I think

01:03:50.710 --> 01:03:53.670
for this episode, it's appropriate. So yeah,

01:03:53.710 --> 01:03:57.570
the two leagues merged in June 66. And from 1970,

01:03:57.750 --> 01:04:02.829
they merged fully, becoming a single NFL with

01:04:02.829 --> 01:04:06.730
two conferences, the AFC and the NFC. Al Davis

01:04:06.730 --> 01:04:09.550
was furious. He was an opponent of Pete Rizal

01:04:09.550 --> 01:04:13.690
for decades as a result, but the deal held. Poor

01:04:13.690 --> 01:04:19.710
Al. Yeah. Christ, a river, pal. The first two

01:04:19.710 --> 01:04:21.809
Super Bowls were both won by the Green Bay Packers.

01:04:22.829 --> 01:04:28.010
who were the NFL champions and they won quite

01:04:28.010 --> 01:04:32.010
comfortably in both games too. So there was a

01:04:32.010 --> 01:04:34.869
lot of question marks around at that point saying,

01:04:35.010 --> 01:04:37.289
is the NFL just going to be far too strong for

01:04:37.289 --> 01:04:40.849
these upstarts? However, as I mentioned, Super

01:04:40.849 --> 01:04:45.769
Bowl III, Joe Namath, the New York Jets delivered

01:04:45.769 --> 01:04:48.710
16 -7 win over the Baltimore Colts. who just

01:04:48.710 --> 01:04:51.710
a year later would actually join the AFC as part

01:04:51.710 --> 01:04:54.269
of the merger. So they move across from the NFL

01:04:54.269 --> 01:05:03.429
to the AFC, where the Indianapolis Colts remain

01:05:03.429 --> 01:05:06.130
to this day. I missed something about Johnny

01:05:06.130 --> 01:05:09.789
Unitas I like, actually. Well, just tell us about

01:05:09.789 --> 01:05:12.590
it. I'll tell you about it. Why not? So Johnny

01:05:12.590 --> 01:05:16.389
Unitas was a Baltimore Colt, and he lived in

01:05:16.389 --> 01:05:19.440
the city of Baltimore. a obviously a massive

01:05:19.440 --> 01:05:22.599
fan of the team in the city and in 1983 when

01:05:22.599 --> 01:05:25.099
the Baltimore Colts were moved to Indianapolis

01:05:25.099 --> 01:05:28.519
he along with other ex -players obviously this

01:05:28.519 --> 01:05:31.019
is about 25 years removed from this greatest

01:05:31.019 --> 01:05:33.500
win ever and only a decade or so removed from

01:05:33.500 --> 01:05:35.820
their last Super Bowl win which Unitas was also

01:05:35.820 --> 01:05:39.079
a part of they were disgusted as you can imagine

01:05:39.079 --> 01:05:42.780
and from that day forward Johnny Unitas refused

01:05:42.780 --> 01:05:45.840
to acknowledge the Indianapolis Colts saying

01:05:45.840 --> 01:05:49.880
he When he was put in the Hall of Fame, he said

01:05:49.880 --> 01:05:51.800
he would only accept being put in the Hall of

01:05:51.800 --> 01:05:54.800
Fame if he was listed as a Baltimore cult, not

01:05:54.800 --> 01:05:57.199
as any part of the Indianapolis cult. That's

01:05:57.199 --> 01:06:04.059
cool. And then in 1995, 1996, in a strange set

01:06:04.059 --> 01:06:07.159
of circumstances, the Cleveland Browns sort of

01:06:07.159 --> 01:06:10.679
half moved to Baltimore and a new franchise was

01:06:10.679 --> 01:06:11.980
formed. Eventually, the Cleveland Browns would

01:06:11.980 --> 01:06:15.480
restart up again. but their players and personnel

01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:18.159
moved to Baltimore and formed the Baltimore Ravens.

01:06:18.159 --> 01:06:21.280
And right there, front and center for the first

01:06:21.280 --> 01:06:23.739
game, Johnny Unitas was there for the Baltimore

01:06:23.739 --> 01:06:26.539
Ravens, which I think, the one thing I hate about

01:06:26.539 --> 01:06:28.800
American sports, I hate moving teams around.

01:06:29.039 --> 01:06:30.679
I was about to talk about this with you, but

01:06:30.679 --> 01:06:33.340
yeah. What I love about sport, one thing I love

01:06:33.340 --> 01:06:36.280
about sport is the idea that I can go and sit

01:06:36.280 --> 01:06:38.179
in the cop and be surrounded by people whose

01:06:38.179 --> 01:06:40.639
granddad's sitting in the cop. Yeah, yeah. It's

01:06:40.639 --> 01:06:41.980
like a community culture. Whose granddad's sitting

01:06:41.980 --> 01:06:43.710
in the cop. whose granddad's probably sat in

01:06:43.710 --> 01:06:45.690
the cot when it was first opened in the 1900s.

01:06:46.469 --> 01:06:50.570
The sense of belonging. Tell stories they were

01:06:50.570 --> 01:06:53.070
told by their granddad to their grandkids. Word

01:06:53.070 --> 01:06:55.070
of mouth. They have this shared history, this

01:06:55.070 --> 01:06:57.289
shared love. And the only offer to move a team

01:06:57.289 --> 01:06:59.929
to an entirely different state, in many cases,

01:07:00.090 --> 01:07:02.269
an entirely different side of the country. I

01:07:02.269 --> 01:07:05.250
can't imagine how much that would hurt, but if

01:07:05.250 --> 01:07:07.710
you were in Baltimore, you'd grown up, you'd

01:07:07.710 --> 01:07:10.610
watched that 1958 championship game. 25 years

01:07:10.610 --> 01:07:13.250
later, seeing your team moved. with all the love

01:07:13.250 --> 01:07:16.210
and the memories and the adoration you have for

01:07:16.210 --> 01:07:18.630
that. I can imagine the Ravens coming again was

01:07:18.630 --> 01:07:21.170
a big thing, but it's gotta be bittersweet because

01:07:21.170 --> 01:07:23.150
it's still not the team that you originally.

01:07:23.289 --> 01:07:26.460
Yeah. Yeah. I mean like, It's the worst thing

01:07:26.460 --> 01:07:29.960
about American sports. It's not even subtle.

01:07:30.719 --> 01:07:32.639
We should definitely explain this. Basically,

01:07:32.800 --> 01:07:36.099
because the NFL is a franchise system, the league

01:07:36.099 --> 01:07:40.199
owns the teams effectively. You have owners and

01:07:40.199 --> 01:07:42.219
stuff, but the league is ultimately in charge

01:07:42.219 --> 01:07:45.760
of who is allowed to enter the league and where

01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:48.300
they're based and this, that and the other. What

01:07:48.300 --> 01:07:51.409
that effectively means is that you can for want

01:07:51.409 --> 01:07:54.230
for a better phrase bid to move a team to another

01:07:54.230 --> 01:07:57.829
location sometimes the NFL won't allow that to

01:07:57.829 --> 01:07:59.929
happen because they do recognize the historical

01:07:59.929 --> 01:08:02.050
significance of some of the teams that have been

01:08:02.050 --> 01:08:04.289
in the league since the beginning so if you try

01:08:04.289 --> 01:08:07.489
and move those they often get vetoed but generally

01:08:07.489 --> 01:08:10.929
speaking you are allowed to move so like St.

01:08:11.010 --> 01:08:14.559
Louis Rams are now the la rams and i think they

01:08:14.559 --> 01:08:16.060
were originally the la rams they moved to st

01:08:16.060 --> 01:08:18.619
louis and then back again um they're originally

01:08:18.619 --> 01:08:20.760
the cleveland rams oh there we are and then jack

01:08:20.760 --> 01:08:22.939
just explained a good example obviously with

01:08:22.939 --> 01:08:25.760
with the baltimore colts and indianapolis um

01:08:25.760 --> 01:08:28.039
there's plenty of examples of it but basically

01:08:28.039 --> 01:08:30.039
it just means you could just be supporting a

01:08:30.039 --> 01:08:31.899
team for 25 years and then they up sticks and

01:08:31.899 --> 01:08:33.920
bugger off uh to the other side of the country

01:08:33.920 --> 01:08:36.529
uh And you're left without a team. And if you

01:08:36.529 --> 01:08:38.670
did that in the UK, because this is an alien

01:08:38.670 --> 01:08:41.770
concept to UK sports fans. Nearly. Nearly an

01:08:41.770 --> 01:08:44.470
alien concept. Well, Wimbledon. Yeah. But, like,

01:08:44.510 --> 01:08:49.130
cause bloody riots. Yes, well, I mean... Not

01:08:49.130 --> 01:08:51.829
for a club of Wimbledon's stature, but if you

01:08:51.829 --> 01:08:54.409
try to move Liverpool somewhere or Manchester

01:08:54.409 --> 01:08:59.369
United or, you know, Arsenal or, you know, even

01:08:59.369 --> 01:09:01.729
Chelsea and, well, plenty of other clubs. But,

01:09:01.750 --> 01:09:05.159
like... Yeah, imagine if you tried to move Newcastle

01:09:05.159 --> 01:09:07.260
out of Newcastle or Leeds. Oh, you wouldn't get

01:09:07.260 --> 01:09:11.760
as far as the city walls. Yeah, it just wouldn't

01:09:11.760 --> 01:09:17.819
happen. It's a pretty annoying thing. It is.

01:09:17.899 --> 01:09:20.420
But anyway, again, just a little bit of context

01:09:20.420 --> 01:09:24.539
for people. Yeah, it's something that happens.

01:09:24.640 --> 01:09:26.460
It's something that no one likes. It's happening

01:09:26.460 --> 01:09:29.630
right now with... For those of you who may have

01:09:29.630 --> 01:09:31.710
seen the film Moneyball, moving to a different

01:09:31.710 --> 01:09:35.390
sport, the Oakland Athletics have had many years

01:09:35.390 --> 01:09:40.850
of hardness, low budgets, occasional success,

01:09:41.109 --> 01:09:43.949
as highlighted by that film, but they're currently

01:09:43.949 --> 01:09:46.850
in the process of moving to Las Vegas. The Oakland

01:09:46.850 --> 01:09:49.750
Raiders, who were the Oakland Raiders, have moved

01:09:49.750 --> 01:09:53.750
to Las Vegas as well. Oakland is not an affluent

01:09:53.750 --> 01:09:57.260
city. No, it's going well for the... It's going

01:09:57.260 --> 01:09:58.840
well for the club. It's going well for the owners.

01:09:59.020 --> 01:10:01.319
But it's nice for the people of Las Vegas to

01:10:01.319 --> 01:10:03.739
have these sports clubs to watch. And obviously

01:10:03.739 --> 01:10:05.979
new memories will be created. But, God, it must

01:10:05.979 --> 01:10:08.739
hurt. It must suck, man. It must hurt so bad.

01:10:08.880 --> 01:10:11.819
Especially the Oakland Raiders have such a bold

01:10:11.819 --> 01:10:14.979
history. Like Super Bowl wins. John Madden coaching

01:10:14.979 --> 01:10:18.680
them to a Super Bowl win in the 70s. Yeah, I

01:10:18.680 --> 01:10:21.380
think another Super Bowl appearance about 20

01:10:21.380 --> 01:10:23.899
years ago as well. Yeah, they've got a real big

01:10:23.899 --> 01:10:28.460
history. It is what it is, but... It is what

01:10:28.460 --> 01:10:30.960
it is, yeah, yeah. It's my least favourite part

01:10:30.960 --> 01:10:33.039
about his sport. And Johnny Unitas, going back

01:10:33.039 --> 01:10:36.199
to him, he has a statue of him. There's a couple

01:10:36.199 --> 01:10:39.939
of statues of former NFL players outside the

01:10:39.939 --> 01:10:42.880
Baltimore Ravens grounds. One of them is Ray

01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:46.359
Lewis, who is a Baltimore Ravens legend. Won

01:10:46.359 --> 01:10:48.020
a couple of Super Bowls with them. And the other

01:10:48.020 --> 01:10:50.300
one is Johnny Unitas. Despite having never played

01:10:50.300 --> 01:10:53.079
for the Ravens, he is a Baltimore legend. I love

01:10:53.079 --> 01:10:54.899
that. That's boss. I love that as well. It's

01:10:54.899 --> 01:10:57.420
nice to have the link. And he was a regular attendee

01:10:57.420 --> 01:11:02.520
at Raven's Home Games until his death. So, yeah.

01:11:03.319 --> 01:11:05.659
That's nice. So where have we got to now? 70s?

01:11:05.840 --> 01:11:07.840
Oh, we're still in the 60s. Still in the 60s.

01:11:07.840 --> 01:11:11.619
I just wanted to quickly touch on another sad

01:11:11.619 --> 01:11:15.180
story. So the first ever African -American winner

01:11:15.180 --> 01:11:17.779
of the Heisman Trophy was a man named Ernie Davis.

01:11:18.619 --> 01:11:23.600
He had a difficult upbringing. Had a lot of talent,

01:11:23.859 --> 01:11:26.319
obviously, and ended up at Syracuse University.

01:11:27.579 --> 01:11:31.100
He played for them between 1959 and 1961. And

01:11:31.100 --> 01:11:34.420
as I mentioned, he became the first African -American

01:11:34.420 --> 01:11:38.020
winner of the Heisman Trophy, leading the nation

01:11:38.020 --> 01:11:40.399
with an average of 7 .8 yards per carry as a

01:11:40.399 --> 01:11:45.229
running back. I'm just throwing random stats.

01:11:45.350 --> 01:11:47.529
No one knows what the fuck that means. He was

01:11:47.529 --> 01:11:51.409
good. He was good. And his senior year was just

01:11:51.409 --> 01:11:54.310
as successful. Ended with a Liberty Bowl victory

01:11:54.310 --> 01:11:59.649
over Miami. But his, as I said, first African

01:11:59.649 --> 01:12:02.470
-American to win the Heisman Trophy. He earned

01:12:02.470 --> 01:12:05.550
the Walter Camp Memorial Trophy as well. And

01:12:05.550 --> 01:12:07.590
his achievements even caught the attention of

01:12:07.590 --> 01:12:10.079
President John F. Kennedy. who sent a message

01:12:10.079 --> 01:12:12.180
honouring Davis for embodying the finest qualities

01:12:12.180 --> 01:12:14.380
of competition, sportsmanship and citizenship

01:12:14.380 --> 01:12:20.479
as well. So yeah, he was selected first overall

01:12:20.479 --> 01:12:22.520
pick, as you imagine, by the Washington Redskins.

01:12:22.739 --> 01:12:25.939
But unfortunately, his path to professional football

01:12:25.939 --> 01:12:30.199
took a dramatic and sad turn when he was diagnosed

01:12:30.199 --> 01:12:34.039
with leukemia. He was in remission for a brief

01:12:34.039 --> 01:12:41.500
period. joined the Browns and Paul Brown, the

01:12:41.500 --> 01:12:44.619
aforementioned Cleveland Browns coach, drew up

01:12:44.619 --> 01:12:48.140
game plans and practices without physical contact.

01:12:48.439 --> 01:12:51.220
He made an appearance during pre -season. He

01:12:51.220 --> 01:12:52.579
ran out to the field with a spotlight following

01:12:52.579 --> 01:12:55.239
him. But it was his last moment in the sport

01:12:55.239 --> 01:12:58.920
as on May the 18th, 1963, at the age of 23, he

01:12:58.920 --> 01:13:01.640
sadly passed away from leukemia. Fucking hell.

01:13:01.760 --> 01:13:05.750
So yeah, sad story. I saw his immortalized as

01:13:05.750 --> 01:13:10.130
a film called The Express, made about him, and

01:13:10.130 --> 01:13:12.449
is obviously very much remembered as a trailblazer

01:13:12.449 --> 01:13:16.590
for African -American athletes, and certainly

01:13:16.590 --> 01:13:18.489
not the last African -American player to win

01:13:18.489 --> 01:13:23.109
the Heisman Award. No, definitely not. Just a

01:13:23.109 --> 01:13:26.630
quick thing there. So as the 60s went on, as

01:13:26.630 --> 01:13:30.930
the NFL grew, the Super Bowl era started, the

01:13:30.930 --> 01:13:34.979
modern era of the NFL. Changes were made to how

01:13:34.979 --> 01:13:38.039
teams went about scouting. As I mentioned in

01:13:38.039 --> 01:13:41.539
the original, in the old days, it was read newspaper

01:13:41.539 --> 01:13:45.399
articles, go off word of mouth, get some tips

01:13:45.399 --> 01:13:50.380
from your contacts. Yeah, largely that. But a

01:13:50.380 --> 01:13:55.239
man named Jill Grant came along who was an executive

01:13:55.239 --> 01:13:59.319
on the Dallas Cowboys and an integral part of

01:13:59.319 --> 01:14:01.720
the Cowboys rose to prominence. in the 60s and

01:14:01.720 --> 01:14:06.020
70s. They were only founded in 1960, but quickly

01:14:06.020 --> 01:14:09.079
became a force and eventually became famously

01:14:09.079 --> 01:14:13.300
the biggest, according to some reckoning, the

01:14:13.300 --> 01:14:15.100
biggest sports club on the planet, the Dallas

01:14:15.100 --> 01:14:16.859
Cowboys, the richest sports club on the planet.

01:14:16.979 --> 01:14:20.739
America's team. America's team, exactly. With,

01:14:20.840 --> 01:14:26.159
yeah, a lot of success, a lot of history. The

01:14:26.159 --> 01:14:29.560
famous cheerleaders as well, whichever one. Documentary

01:14:29.560 --> 01:14:31.720
on that. Yeah, documentary on Netflix about them.

01:14:31.760 --> 01:14:33.300
If you haven't seen it, I'd recommend it. It's

01:14:33.300 --> 01:14:35.819
very good. But he was, Jill Brown was credited

01:14:35.819 --> 01:14:38.560
with revolutionizing NFL scouting. One of the

01:14:38.560 --> 01:14:40.859
first to use technologies such as early computers

01:14:40.859 --> 01:14:43.479
and data analysis to aid scouting and evaluating

01:14:43.479 --> 01:14:45.979
talent. Obviously a practice that will become

01:14:45.979 --> 01:14:48.840
common throughout the league. He also maintained

01:14:48.840 --> 01:14:52.420
an extensive network of scouts and took an innovative

01:14:52.420 --> 01:14:54.930
approach to player evaluation. which allowed

01:14:54.930 --> 01:14:56.670
them to draft and develop key players, which

01:14:56.670 --> 01:14:59.149
contributed to the team's success, including

01:14:59.149 --> 01:15:02.149
figures like Roger Stalbeck, Tony Dorsett, Randy

01:15:02.149 --> 01:15:05.449
White. In addition to his work with the Cowboys,

01:15:05.630 --> 01:15:08.609
he contributed to the NFL draft and helped shape

01:15:08.609 --> 01:15:11.750
the event into what it is today with his scouting

01:15:11.750 --> 01:15:15.130
network and the influence other scouts took from

01:15:15.130 --> 01:15:18.689
that. So yeah, it was instrumental. And another

01:15:18.689 --> 01:15:21.869
man who, I'm going to move into the 1970s now,

01:15:21.970 --> 01:15:26.060
just about. Just into the 1970s. Another man

01:15:26.060 --> 01:15:29.380
who was key in revolutionising scouting and teams'

01:15:29.399 --> 01:15:32.079
approach to scouting was a man named Bill Nunn,

01:15:32.079 --> 01:15:41.840
who was a sports writer at the Pittsburgh Courier,

01:15:41.960 --> 01:15:45.300
which was a famous... You told me about this

01:15:45.300 --> 01:15:47.319
guy. A famous African -American newspaper. Yeah,

01:15:47.380 --> 01:15:49.869
it's a good story list. Famous African -American

01:15:49.869 --> 01:15:52.529
newspaper, very well respected. He was a basketball

01:15:52.529 --> 01:15:56.789
player in his youth. He played on the West Virginia

01:15:56.789 --> 01:15:59.890
State basketball team where his team went unbeaten

01:15:59.890 --> 01:16:03.550
and included future NBA legends such as Chuck

01:16:03.550 --> 01:16:06.310
Cooper, who was the first black NBA draftee,

01:16:06.350 --> 01:16:08.229
and Earl Lloyd, who was the first black player

01:16:08.229 --> 01:16:12.770
to play in the NBA. Bill Nunn declined an offer

01:16:12.770 --> 01:16:15.630
to play for the Harlem Globetrotters to instead

01:16:15.630 --> 01:16:19.149
go and work for the Courier. So he rose from

01:16:19.149 --> 01:16:21.409
sports writer to managing editor. So he was a

01:16:21.409 --> 01:16:26.090
gun basketball player. He was instrumental in

01:16:26.090 --> 01:16:28.430
highlighting talent from historically black colleges

01:16:28.430 --> 01:16:31.710
and universities, HBCUs, through the publication's

01:16:31.710 --> 01:16:34.770
Black College All -America team. His unique insight

01:16:34.770 --> 01:16:38.619
into overlooked players led to... Other teams,

01:16:38.680 --> 01:16:41.319
not the Pittsburgh Steelers, who are his local

01:16:41.319 --> 01:16:43.140
team, but other teams approaching him and asking

01:16:43.140 --> 01:16:49.000
him for advice in the past. But his local team,

01:16:49.020 --> 01:16:50.979
the Steelers, never called him in all this time.

01:16:51.800 --> 01:16:54.039
When he eventually got asked for a meeting with

01:16:54.039 --> 01:16:56.779
Dan Rooney, who was the son of the owner, Art

01:16:56.779 --> 01:16:58.979
Rooney, but obviously a key figure and later

01:16:58.979 --> 01:17:02.319
became the owner, took over from his dad. Dan

01:17:02.319 --> 01:17:04.319
Rooney asked for a meeting and Nunn was very

01:17:04.319 --> 01:17:06.539
blunt with him. He said, I never felt welcomed

01:17:06.539 --> 01:17:08.840
by you all. You never showed an interest in what

01:17:08.840 --> 01:17:11.779
I was doing in all this time. So in response

01:17:11.779 --> 01:17:13.760
to that, Dan Rooney made him an offer, scout

01:17:13.760 --> 01:17:16.140
for the team, and basically offered him a job.

01:17:17.220 --> 01:17:20.140
Reluctantly, after a lot of thought and soul

01:17:20.140 --> 01:17:23.020
-searching, Nunn did agree to that. By 1969,

01:17:23.279 --> 01:17:25.399
he was doing the job full -time and the Steelers

01:17:25.399 --> 01:17:28.439
had added a secret weapon. It feels like a great

01:17:28.439 --> 01:17:32.159
example of someone who's like... You can't whinge

01:17:32.159 --> 01:17:34.079
and then not take the chance, right? I guess

01:17:34.079 --> 01:17:37.760
so, yeah. That doesn't excuse the Steelers for

01:17:37.760 --> 01:17:42.699
being useless, but for ones faced with the opportunity,

01:17:42.880 --> 01:17:44.779
I guess you can't moan about having never been

01:17:44.779 --> 01:17:46.680
given an opportunity to scout for the team and

01:17:46.680 --> 01:17:48.300
when they offer you the head scout job, not take

01:17:48.300 --> 01:17:50.460
it. I think it was in all this time, I think

01:17:50.460 --> 01:17:53.000
is the main thing. And also, and you were right

01:17:53.000 --> 01:17:55.979
to use the word useless attributed to the Steelers.

01:17:56.199 --> 01:17:59.399
The Steelers were useless. They had... being

01:17:59.399 --> 01:18:02.420
a member of the NFL since 1933, and in all that

01:18:02.420 --> 01:18:04.699
time, they'd had exactly eight winning seasons

01:18:04.699 --> 01:18:08.600
between 1933 and 1971. There seems to be a correlation

01:18:08.600 --> 01:18:11.859
between that upturn. They'd only made the playoffs

01:18:11.859 --> 01:18:14.500
once in 1947 and lost immediately, never won

01:18:14.500 --> 01:18:18.739
a playoff game. And in the, I think, 35 years

01:18:18.739 --> 01:18:20.539
the team had been in existence, they'd got through

01:18:20.539 --> 01:18:23.560
15 head coaches in that time. Now, I think one

01:18:23.560 --> 01:18:26.119
of the best measures you can say of how the Steelers

01:18:26.119 --> 01:18:29.079
changed, and as I mentioned before, six... six

01:18:29.079 --> 01:18:32.880
Super Bowl wins they've got. So they've obviously

01:18:32.880 --> 01:18:36.760
been successful. In the, what would it be, 55

01:18:36.760 --> 01:18:39.939
years. So first 35 years, they went through 15

01:18:39.939 --> 01:18:42.680
head coaches. In the 55 years since then, they've

01:18:42.680 --> 01:18:44.619
gone through, they're on their third head coach

01:18:44.619 --> 01:18:47.579
in that time. Which is incredible. The first

01:18:47.579 --> 01:18:50.479
one was Chuck Knoll, who they hired in 1969.

01:18:50.960 --> 01:18:54.859
And with obviously Dan Rooney being more forward

01:18:54.859 --> 01:18:57.859
thinking, Chuck Knoll was a cerebral, no -nonsense,

01:18:58.430 --> 01:19:00.729
a guy with experience with the Baltimore Colts

01:19:00.729 --> 01:19:03.229
as well. And they said they were going to build

01:19:03.229 --> 01:19:04.369
through the draft. They're not going to trade

01:19:04.369 --> 01:19:05.449
for veterans. They're going to try and build

01:19:05.449 --> 01:19:09.850
a team. And that's what they did. So using scouts

01:19:09.850 --> 01:19:12.710
like Nunn and recruiting heavily as well from

01:19:12.710 --> 01:19:14.729
historically black colleges and universities,

01:19:15.090 --> 01:19:19.750
they, in the draft, got picks like Joe Green,

01:19:19.869 --> 01:19:22.229
famously called Mean Joe Green, who was a tough,

01:19:22.289 --> 01:19:25.010
violent, and dominant cornerstone of the team.

01:19:25.690 --> 01:19:30.170
Mel Blount, Dwight White, Franco Harris, Jerry

01:19:30.170 --> 01:19:33.010
Moon Mullins. These are names that will mean

01:19:33.010 --> 01:19:35.310
a lot to certain people. They mean nothing to

01:19:35.310 --> 01:19:38.649
me. I know. They mean something to me. I've got

01:19:38.649 --> 01:19:41.350
a soft spot for the Steelers. In 1969, Chottnall's

01:19:41.350 --> 01:19:43.130
first season, well, before they'd even start

01:19:43.130 --> 01:19:46.130
building, they had a bad season. They came joint

01:19:46.130 --> 01:19:48.569
bottom of the league. So it went to a coin toss

01:19:48.569 --> 01:19:52.210
between them and the Bears to decide who would

01:19:52.210 --> 01:19:55.100
get first pick. The Steelers won. So they got

01:19:55.100 --> 01:19:56.779
the first pick in the draft and drafted one Terry

01:19:56.779 --> 01:19:58.899
Bradshaw. I've heard of him. You've heard of

01:19:58.899 --> 01:20:02.279
him. And four Super Bowl rings later shows why

01:20:02.279 --> 01:20:06.020
that coin toss mattered. That's wild. Yep. So

01:20:06.020 --> 01:20:10.340
from there, 1972, the pieces were in place and

01:20:10.340 --> 01:20:13.000
they pulled out of it an 11 -3 record, which

01:20:13.000 --> 01:20:15.140
was their best season ever. Made the first playoff

01:20:15.140 --> 01:20:18.220
appearance since 1947. As I mentioned, they never

01:20:18.220 --> 01:20:20.420
won a playoff game. They had a vicious defense,

01:20:20.579 --> 01:20:22.840
a creative offense. The team had some swagger.

01:20:23.319 --> 01:20:26.840
And then came December the 23rd, 1972. So it

01:20:26.840 --> 01:20:28.539
was an AFC divisional round game between the

01:20:28.539 --> 01:20:30.479
Steelers and the Raiders, the Oakland Raiders.

01:20:30.640 --> 01:20:32.560
John Madden was coaching them. The legend that

01:20:32.560 --> 01:20:35.359
is John Madden was coaching the Raiders. The

01:20:35.359 --> 01:20:37.819
first half was a grind. It was 0 -0 at halftime.

01:20:38.260 --> 01:20:42.100
0 -0 at halftime. The Raiders had pulled their

01:20:42.100 --> 01:20:44.859
quarterback. The Steelers held a slight lead

01:20:44.859 --> 01:20:47.659
late in the fourth quarter. It was 6 -0. But

01:20:47.659 --> 01:20:51.460
then a late Raiders touchdown made it 7 -6. And

01:20:51.460 --> 01:20:54.840
same old Steelers, the fans were saying. Same

01:20:54.840 --> 01:20:58.000
old lovable losers. Always the bridesmaid, never

01:20:58.000 --> 01:21:00.539
the bride. Exactly. But with the game on the

01:21:00.539 --> 01:21:04.539
line, Bradshaw dropped back on fourth down, fired

01:21:04.539 --> 01:21:07.180
a dart under pressure. With just seconds on the

01:21:07.180 --> 01:21:10.359
clock, fourth down, everything on the line in

01:21:10.359 --> 01:21:14.119
the game. He threw a pass towards his receiver,

01:21:14.159 --> 01:21:17.960
Frenchy Cure. That's a good name. It's a good

01:21:17.960 --> 01:21:20.739
name, yeah. Fakura? I have to be very careful

01:21:20.739 --> 01:21:23.279
pronouncing that. Well, I don't actually. The

01:21:23.279 --> 01:21:26.619
podcast is marked explicit for a reason. But

01:21:26.619 --> 01:21:29.960
it came off. It is questionable who it came off

01:21:29.960 --> 01:21:32.399
because the rules were in place that had it come

01:21:32.399 --> 01:21:36.119
off Fakura, had it come off him, it would have

01:21:36.119 --> 01:21:39.119
been a dead ball. But I've seen the replay enough

01:21:39.119 --> 01:21:40.859
that I think it came off Jack Tatum, who was

01:21:40.859 --> 01:21:44.819
the Raiders' safety. The ball sailed towards

01:21:44.819 --> 01:21:47.090
the floor. and was about to hit the deck, which

01:21:47.090 --> 01:21:49.750
would have ended the game. Whereas rookie fullback

01:21:49.750 --> 01:21:52.770
Franco Harris plucked it off his shoelaces and

01:21:52.770 --> 01:21:56.229
ran it in 50 yards into the end zone from there.

01:21:56.310 --> 01:21:59.069
Is that the one that you call the... It's the

01:21:59.069 --> 01:22:01.670
immaculate reception. Yeah. It's one of the most,

01:22:01.750 --> 01:22:03.510
probably, I would say probably the most famous

01:22:03.510 --> 01:22:06.210
play in NFL history. It is incredible, given

01:22:06.210 --> 01:22:07.590
that everything was on the line at that moment,

01:22:07.649 --> 01:22:09.970
given the amount he had to run, given the line

01:22:09.970 --> 01:22:11.630
he took. He wasn't even supposed to be there.

01:22:12.949 --> 01:22:14.229
Franco Harris was supposed to be on the other

01:22:14.229 --> 01:22:16.109
side of the field. For some reason, it had come

01:22:16.109 --> 01:22:19.810
over. Yeah, so incredible. Game over. Art Rooney,

01:22:19.890 --> 01:22:22.329
who is the Steelers' owner, missed it. He was

01:22:22.329 --> 01:22:24.609
in an elevator at the time. Really? He'd given

01:22:24.609 --> 01:22:28.569
up on the game. What an idiot. Don't leave the

01:22:28.569 --> 01:22:32.270
game before a full time. How many times do people

01:22:32.270 --> 01:22:34.909
need to be told? They didn't win anything that

01:22:34.909 --> 01:22:36.409
year. They won their playoff game. They won their

01:22:36.409 --> 01:22:40.590
first playoff game. They lost in the AFC Championship

01:22:40.590 --> 01:22:42.909
game. But it changed the franchise forever. It

01:22:42.909 --> 01:22:44.710
was a sign. It was a moment of destiny. And from

01:22:44.710 --> 01:22:48.550
1972 to 1979, they became probably the NFL's

01:22:48.550 --> 01:22:51.210
first real dominant dynasty, winning four Super

01:22:51.210 --> 01:22:54.949
Bowls. They drafted or developed about 10 Hall

01:22:54.949 --> 01:22:57.279
of Famers in that time. and a team that defined

01:22:57.279 --> 01:22:59.260
the toughness, loyalty, and blue -collar grit

01:22:59.260 --> 01:23:02.020
of the city itself, built on a foundation of

01:23:02.020 --> 01:23:04.579
scouting from less -than -known colleges. This

01:23:04.579 --> 01:23:05.960
is what I'm saying, Jack. What I'm taking from

01:23:05.960 --> 01:23:08.479
that is that, basically, if you listen to people

01:23:08.479 --> 01:23:10.939
who are paying attention to the talents that

01:23:10.939 --> 01:23:16.149
are out there, and you organise your... franchise,

01:23:16.430 --> 01:23:18.829
club, whatever you want to call it, in a way

01:23:18.829 --> 01:23:20.890
that encourages professionalism and excellence,

01:23:21.149 --> 01:23:23.050
then you can go from the bottom to the top. That's

01:23:23.050 --> 01:23:25.550
quite literally what you were saying at the beginning.

01:23:25.750 --> 01:23:29.189
If you take an elite approach. Yeah. Then the

01:23:29.189 --> 01:23:32.250
draft gives you a route back through to the top.

01:23:32.470 --> 01:23:34.609
You get your Bradshaw as your first round pick,

01:23:34.810 --> 01:23:37.609
albeit on a coin toss. You've been shit forever.

01:23:38.409 --> 01:23:41.390
You've been churning out coaches. You get a guy

01:23:41.390 --> 01:23:46.500
in who is well -known, to scout and identify

01:23:46.500 --> 01:23:49.920
collegiate talents and then you set yourself

01:23:49.920 --> 01:23:52.939
up with some consistency and professionalism

01:23:52.939 --> 01:23:56.220
and your fortunes turn around. That's the whole

01:23:56.220 --> 01:23:59.060
point of the draft, right? Crazy, isn't it? Crazy

01:23:59.060 --> 01:24:03.340
concept. I like that. Bill Nunn was an amazing

01:24:03.340 --> 01:24:06.460
bloke. He won six Super Bowls in the end as a

01:24:06.460 --> 01:24:11.279
scout. He remained at... Where did he go afterwards?

01:24:11.420 --> 01:24:14.020
No, he remained at the Steelers in this century.

01:24:14.460 --> 01:24:18.140
Yeah. He died in 2014. He oversaw all six of

01:24:18.140 --> 01:24:20.520
the Super Bowls. Yeah. And he was inducted into

01:24:20.520 --> 01:24:23.319
the... Probably belatedly inducted into the Pro

01:24:23.319 --> 01:24:26.100
Football Hall of Fame in 2021 after his death.

01:24:26.260 --> 01:24:30.399
But, no, I mean, a deserved inductee. Yeah. That's

01:24:30.399 --> 01:24:33.739
boss. It was boss. I'm going to break it up now

01:24:33.739 --> 01:24:38.140
a little bit. Yeah. Because we are... I appreciate

01:24:38.140 --> 01:24:39.899
this is going on a long time. I don't mind. I

01:24:39.899 --> 01:24:42.810
think this is all good information. But a few

01:24:42.810 --> 01:24:46.350
quirks of the NFL draft, a few quirky picks through

01:24:46.350 --> 01:24:48.710
history. I'm just going to give three out because

01:24:48.710 --> 01:24:52.229
I quite like these three. So firstly, we've got

01:24:52.229 --> 01:24:56.850
a man named Kelvin Kirk, who is Mr. Most Irrelevant

01:24:56.850 --> 01:24:59.949
Ever, who is the lowest draft pick ever in the

01:24:59.949 --> 01:25:02.670
league. So we know Mr. Irrelevant is the lowest

01:25:02.670 --> 01:25:07.710
pick. The 1976 draft had more draft picks than

01:25:07.710 --> 01:25:10.170
any other draft in history. It used to go on

01:25:10.170 --> 01:25:13.829
way beyond the seventh round. He was the 487th

01:25:13.829 --> 01:25:17.010
pick of the draft, making him the most irrelevant

01:25:17.010 --> 01:25:19.569
Mr. Irrelevant ever. He was drafted actually

01:25:19.569 --> 01:25:21.829
by the Steelers, but he was cut by them pretty

01:25:21.829 --> 01:25:24.510
quickly. He spent seven years playing in the

01:25:24.510 --> 01:25:26.510
CFL in Canada, the Canadian Football League,

01:25:26.810 --> 01:25:30.090
6 ,500 yards receiving, and later worked as an

01:25:30.090 --> 01:25:32.430
artist for the Ottawa Citizen before his premature

01:25:32.430 --> 01:25:35.250
death in 2003 after he had a heart attack while

01:25:35.250 --> 01:25:38.510
playing basketball. So there you go. Most irrelevant

01:25:38.510 --> 01:25:42.300
Mr. Irrelevant of all time. So Rosie Brown is

01:25:42.300 --> 01:25:44.220
the next one who's kind of got the opposite story.

01:25:44.399 --> 01:25:47.500
He was picked low. He was drafted 321st overall

01:25:47.500 --> 01:25:50.920
in the 1953 draft by the New York Giants. But

01:25:50.920 --> 01:25:52.819
he's one of the most notable late round draft

01:25:52.819 --> 01:25:55.079
stories in NFL history. Not only did he make

01:25:55.079 --> 01:25:56.579
the team, but he wanted to become one of the

01:25:56.579 --> 01:25:59.579
most dominant linemen in the league and eventually

01:25:59.579 --> 01:26:02.399
made his way into the Hall of Fame on 321st pick.

01:26:02.579 --> 01:26:05.500
He was a Pro World Garden tackle for the Giants

01:26:05.500 --> 01:26:07.960
for 13 seasons. Key player in their line for

01:26:07.960 --> 01:26:09.739
years, known for his powerful athletic play.

01:26:10.260 --> 01:26:13.479
Apparently he could run as quick as some running

01:26:13.479 --> 01:26:18.840
backs, but he was built like a proverbial. Made

01:26:18.840 --> 01:26:20.920
it into the Hall of Fame in 1975. A big boy.

01:26:21.260 --> 01:26:24.180
Yeah, yeah. Picked in the 21st round. So as I

01:26:24.180 --> 01:26:26.100
said, drafts used to go on a lot longer. That

01:26:26.100 --> 01:26:29.619
was the 21st round. Yeah. And the final one I'm

01:26:29.619 --> 01:26:32.220
going to point out is a chap called Happy Fella.

01:26:33.140 --> 01:26:37.060
Happy Fella, who was a kicker in the NFL. It's

01:26:37.060 --> 01:26:39.239
a good name. Who was known for his positive demeanor

01:26:39.239 --> 01:26:41.500
and hence his nickname, Happy. He played college

01:26:41.500 --> 01:26:46.899
football in Texas and he set school record 55

01:26:46.899 --> 01:26:50.119
-yard field goal. He was drafted by the Eagles,

01:26:50.300 --> 01:26:52.659
but despite a promising start, he was played

01:26:52.659 --> 01:26:55.060
by a quadriceps injury, which limited him to

01:26:55.060 --> 01:26:58.000
just one season with the Eagles. And he made

01:26:58.000 --> 01:26:59.899
only six out of 20 field goals in his rookie

01:26:59.899 --> 01:27:02.979
year and struggled later. But nevertheless, good

01:27:02.979 --> 01:27:05.800
name. Very good name. Happy fella. There you

01:27:05.800 --> 01:27:08.850
go. So speaking of quirky picks, I believe you've

01:27:08.850 --> 01:27:11.010
got some lists for us. And now would be a nice

01:27:11.010 --> 01:27:14.029
time to slot them in. I've done a lot of talking

01:27:14.029 --> 01:27:17.590
so far. Well, that's all right. You know a lot

01:27:17.590 --> 01:27:20.810
more about this subject than I do. And you can

01:27:20.810 --> 01:27:25.449
feel the passion, Jack. Thank you. Yeah, no,

01:27:25.569 --> 01:27:29.170
I mean, like, you tasked me with having a look

01:27:29.170 --> 01:27:32.649
at some of the top... Well, having a go at picking

01:27:32.649 --> 01:27:37.039
five... of the best players to be picked late,

01:27:37.239 --> 01:27:40.960
basically. As in like goldmine finds, late picks

01:27:40.960 --> 01:27:45.560
that actually did very well. And also five first

01:27:45.560 --> 01:27:48.640
round failures, like duds. Draft busts. So where

01:27:48.640 --> 01:27:51.840
would you like to start? Let's start with the

01:27:51.840 --> 01:27:53.739
negative. I always like to start with a negative.

01:27:53.760 --> 01:27:55.479
You know that about me. Well, these are in no

01:27:55.479 --> 01:27:57.260
particular order. I'll leave it to you to determine

01:27:57.260 --> 01:28:00.199
which of these is the worst. But the first chap

01:28:00.199 --> 01:28:03.600
that I came up with was Ricky Williams. Yes.

01:28:04.079 --> 01:28:07.899
Ricky Williams, to be fair, he was a very good

01:28:07.899 --> 01:28:09.460
college player. He set the National Collegiate

01:28:09.460 --> 01:28:11.500
Athletic Association record for rushing yards

01:28:11.500 --> 01:28:13.699
and won the Heisman Trophy. So that's important

01:28:13.699 --> 01:28:16.539
context when it comes to assessing how poor this

01:28:16.539 --> 01:28:19.140
pick was. I don't think that his pick was necessarily

01:28:19.140 --> 01:28:24.520
a bad one based on talent and statistics and

01:28:24.520 --> 01:28:26.600
collegiate record, but it was for the way in

01:28:26.600 --> 01:28:30.300
which it was manufactured. He was effectively

01:28:30.300 --> 01:28:34.869
picked by the New Orleans Saints. With Mike Dichter

01:28:34.869 --> 01:28:36.850
as head coach, the aforementioned Mike Dichter,

01:28:36.909 --> 01:28:39.630
who you were talking about earlier. They had

01:28:39.630 --> 01:28:42.510
had two consecutive seasons with a 6 -10 record,

01:28:42.710 --> 01:28:45.670
so two losing seasons in a row. And leading up

01:28:45.670 --> 01:28:49.289
to the 1999 draft, Dichter decided that he wanted

01:28:49.289 --> 01:28:52.630
Williams to play for the Saints. At an NFL owners

01:28:52.630 --> 01:28:55.189
meeting held two months before the draft, he

01:28:55.189 --> 01:28:57.029
publicly stated that he would trade his entire

01:28:57.029 --> 01:29:01.409
draft to acquire Williams. Other teams had doubts

01:29:01.409 --> 01:29:03.569
about Williams. williams's passion for the game

01:29:03.569 --> 01:29:06.689
and also his judgment in hiring a a chap called

01:29:06.689 --> 01:29:09.590
master p as his agent who i think was a rapper

01:29:09.590 --> 01:29:12.609
and entrepreneur but was not uh not a sports

01:29:12.609 --> 01:29:17.729
agent so um so yeah anyway uh true to his word

01:29:17.729 --> 01:29:21.050
dicta did end up drafting um williams for all

01:29:21.050 --> 01:29:23.689
of his other draft picks in fact they went one

01:29:23.689 --> 01:29:26.470
further than that they tried to trade all of

01:29:26.470 --> 01:29:30.859
their picks in 1998 to acquire either at one

01:29:30.859 --> 01:29:33.399
Peyton Manning, who turned out to be quite good,

01:29:33.500 --> 01:29:36.460
or Ryan Leaf, who turned out not to be quite

01:29:36.460 --> 01:29:40.140
as good. But they were rejected. And so when

01:29:40.140 --> 01:29:43.140
it came to 1999, they decided that they wanted

01:29:43.140 --> 01:29:47.199
to move up from their draft position. I think

01:29:47.199 --> 01:29:51.479
they were maybe 12. But anyway, they wanted to

01:29:51.479 --> 01:29:55.029
secure Williams. In order to do that, they traded

01:29:55.029 --> 01:29:58.050
every single pick that they had plus two of their

01:29:58.050 --> 01:30:01.430
first three picks for the 2000 NFL draft for

01:30:01.430 --> 01:30:04.529
the fifth overall pick for which they used to

01:30:04.529 --> 01:30:08.010
select Williams. That's incredible. Yeah, I mean,

01:30:08.029 --> 01:30:10.010
to be fair, the second round pick had already

01:30:10.010 --> 01:30:12.350
been traded to the Rams to get Eddie Kennison.

01:30:12.789 --> 01:30:17.050
But this was the first time one player was the

01:30:17.050 --> 01:30:20.609
only draft pick. for an NFL team that's incredible

01:30:20.609 --> 01:30:23.949
it's never been done before or since and it really

01:30:23.949 --> 01:30:26.090
paid off because the Saints struggled to a 3

01:30:26.090 --> 01:30:33.340
-13 season in 1999 The second worst in the franchise's

01:30:33.340 --> 01:30:36.460
history. And Dictor was understandably fired.

01:30:36.960 --> 01:30:41.760
Yes. Williams played three seasons for the Saints

01:30:41.760 --> 01:30:44.420
before he was traded to the Miami Dolphins where

01:30:44.420 --> 01:30:46.800
he proceeded to fail three drugs tests before

01:30:46.800 --> 01:30:50.119
retiring in 2004. He briefly returned but had

01:30:50.119 --> 01:30:53.340
another anti -daping violation. Played one season

01:30:53.340 --> 01:30:55.239
in Canada before retiring for good and never

01:30:55.239 --> 01:30:59.180
being heard of again. So, yeah, whilst you might

01:30:59.180 --> 01:31:01.260
understand why someone would have drafted Williams,

01:31:01.460 --> 01:31:04.800
I'm not sure I would have done so in such circumstances.

01:31:05.439 --> 01:31:08.640
I mean, Williams is obviously almost certainly

01:31:08.640 --> 01:31:12.260
a big contributor to this, but the league generally

01:31:12.260 --> 01:31:15.180
has moved very far away from using high draft

01:31:15.180 --> 01:31:18.100
picks on running backs because they are so volatile,

01:31:18.319 --> 01:31:22.640
because they get hit so hard so often that they

01:31:22.640 --> 01:31:25.640
are prone to injuries, as well as, obviously...

01:31:26.510 --> 01:31:30.489
There's not always a direct... Speed and space

01:31:30.489 --> 01:31:32.829
in the open can get you a long way in college.

01:31:33.010 --> 01:31:35.590
Not necessarily always the case in the professional

01:31:35.590 --> 01:31:40.569
game. So maybe don't use nine draft picks. Yeah,

01:31:40.569 --> 01:31:44.170
that is... Actually, I'd heard of Ricky Williams.

01:31:44.250 --> 01:31:46.289
I did not know they went in that big for him.

01:31:46.470 --> 01:31:50.899
That is bad. Yeah, that's bad, yeah. So I've

01:31:50.899 --> 01:31:53.600
given you one from a trade perspective. Now I've

01:31:53.600 --> 01:31:57.319
got one from an age perspective. So number two

01:31:57.319 --> 01:32:00.859
candidate is Brandon Whedon. Whedon was selected

01:32:00.859 --> 01:32:04.180
by the Cleveland Browns as the 22nd pick in the

01:32:04.180 --> 01:32:08.340
2012 draft. He became the oldest player ever

01:32:08.340 --> 01:32:10.819
to be taken in the first round. He was 28 years

01:32:10.819 --> 01:32:14.859
old. Impressive. So two years before the same...

01:32:15.740 --> 01:32:18.680
So he was picked two years before the Browns

01:32:18.680 --> 01:32:22.140
would then go on to pick Johnny Manziel. So that

01:32:22.140 --> 01:32:23.880
would give you an indication as to how well it

01:32:23.880 --> 01:32:27.079
went for Whedon. In his first game, he threw

01:32:27.079 --> 01:32:29.640
four interceptions and had a passer rating of

01:32:29.640 --> 01:32:34.779
5 .1. Oof. Which is low. It's not good. So again,

01:32:34.859 --> 01:32:38.600
to explain passer rating, call it a score out

01:32:38.600 --> 01:32:43.500
of... 153, I think it is. 153 is the maximum.

01:32:43.659 --> 01:32:45.739
So call it a score out of that. So five is bad.

01:32:46.260 --> 01:32:48.479
Let's just say we're getting to the point now

01:32:48.479 --> 01:32:50.279
where we're going to get some quarterbacks retiring

01:32:50.279 --> 01:32:53.220
for the first time with a score over 100. And

01:32:53.220 --> 01:32:56.560
that is Aaron Rodgers. And that is just insanely

01:32:56.560 --> 01:32:59.260
good for an entire career. Unless he wrecked

01:32:59.260 --> 01:33:01.119
that by spending two years at the Jets, obviously.

01:33:01.260 --> 01:33:06.720
But yeah, so 100 is considered extremely good

01:33:06.720 --> 01:33:09.470
anywhere in the 90s. and you've probably had

01:33:09.470 --> 01:33:12.329
quite a good career. Yeah, well, he didn't. No.

01:33:13.029 --> 01:33:15.350
During his time with the Browns, he only had

01:33:15.350 --> 01:33:18.949
a 55 % completion rate. He threw more interceptions

01:33:18.949 --> 01:33:22.439
than touchdowns. That's a record he would barely

01:33:22.439 --> 01:33:24.939
improve throughout his career. I think he finished

01:33:24.939 --> 01:33:28.439
with 31 touchdowns and 30 interceptions. Solid.

01:33:28.699 --> 01:33:32.479
From 25 starts and 35 games. But that also included

01:33:32.479 --> 01:33:37.039
75 sacks for 452 yards. Yeah, and this is sort

01:33:37.039 --> 01:33:39.640
of the problem. Obviously, I'm not going to defend

01:33:39.640 --> 01:33:42.579
him or say he was high quality necessarily compared

01:33:42.579 --> 01:33:45.819
to the average. Or offensive line, rather. Also,

01:33:45.840 --> 01:33:47.520
if you've got no offensive line, there's only

01:33:47.520 --> 01:33:50.819
so much you can do as a quarterback. Yeah, exactly.

01:33:51.159 --> 01:33:53.079
You've got no protection. Well, he basically

01:33:53.079 --> 01:33:57.760
got sacked for a 14th of what he threw for. Yeah.

01:33:57.920 --> 01:34:01.739
In his career. That'll do you. Including 15 fumbles.

01:34:02.140 --> 01:34:06.100
Yeah, it was inevitable. He survived six years,

01:34:06.239 --> 01:34:08.539
mainly as a backup at the Titans, Texans and

01:34:08.539 --> 01:34:11.159
Cowboys. But to his credit, because I've gone

01:34:11.159 --> 01:34:14.300
in a little bit here on Mr. Whedon, perhaps unprovoked

01:34:14.300 --> 01:34:17.220
and unnecessarily so, he was originally a baseball

01:34:17.220 --> 01:34:19.000
player, although he never made it to the bigs.

01:34:19.000 --> 01:34:21.520
I was going to say, there's normally a couple

01:34:21.520 --> 01:34:23.159
of reasons why someone would be drafted at that

01:34:23.159 --> 01:34:25.680
age. They've either tried another sport or they've

01:34:25.680 --> 01:34:27.380
been in the army. There's often another one as

01:34:27.380 --> 01:34:29.939
well. Or the armed forces, I should say. And

01:34:29.939 --> 01:34:33.260
then gone to college. Yeah, so he was drafted

01:34:33.260 --> 01:34:36.960
by the Yankees. but traded multiple times, never

01:34:36.960 --> 01:34:38.659
made it to the bigs, then went back to college,

01:34:38.779 --> 01:34:41.699
played football. I mean, that's interesting.

01:34:41.939 --> 01:34:43.539
Yeah, definitely interesting. Fair play, actually.

01:34:43.800 --> 01:34:47.220
He was basically above average at both baseball

01:34:47.220 --> 01:34:49.000
and American football, but not that good at either.

01:34:49.319 --> 01:34:51.699
Well, if you're comparing it to NFL standards

01:34:51.699 --> 01:34:53.779
and baseball standards. Professional -wise, yeah.

01:34:53.960 --> 01:34:56.340
I mean, he dabbled. He certainly dabbled. He

01:34:56.340 --> 01:34:59.500
was a sportsman. He just wasn't... He didn't

01:34:59.500 --> 01:35:03.539
excel in either. Nice. So, yeah. So, you've got

01:35:03.539 --> 01:35:06.350
one for age. You've got one for trading, and

01:35:06.350 --> 01:35:09.090
then you've got one for mindlessness. I don't

01:35:09.090 --> 01:35:10.970
know. I don't understand how to explain this

01:35:10.970 --> 01:35:14.710
better. But Bo Jackson. Oh, yeah. Bo Jackson,

01:35:14.930 --> 01:35:18.850
a month before the 1986 NFL draft, a Tampa Bay

01:35:18.850 --> 01:35:22.270
Buccaneers owner, an Alabama Illuminae, Hugh

01:35:22.270 --> 01:35:27.880
Culverhouse took Bo. on a private jet to visit

01:35:27.880 --> 01:35:30.420
the team and to get a physical during his senior

01:35:30.420 --> 01:35:35.399
baseball season. And Jackson was told by the

01:35:35.399 --> 01:35:37.140
Buccaneers that the trip had been cleared by

01:35:37.140 --> 01:35:42.000
the NCAA and the SEC, but it hadn't been. And

01:35:42.000 --> 01:35:44.020
yeah, the SEC barred athletes from being professional

01:35:44.020 --> 01:35:46.100
in one sport and amateur in another. So he was

01:35:46.100 --> 01:35:48.739
declared ineligible near the tail end of his

01:35:48.739 --> 01:35:52.260
senior baseball season. And Jackson told ESPN

01:35:52.260 --> 01:35:54.659
that he long believed that the Buccaneers had

01:35:54.659 --> 01:35:56.380
deliberately tried to sabotage his collegiate

01:35:56.380 --> 01:35:58.300
baseball career because of the season he was

01:35:58.300 --> 01:36:00.800
having. And he was so angry at the Buccaneers'

01:36:00.840 --> 01:36:02.600
actions that he vowed never to play for them,

01:36:02.659 --> 01:36:05.439
going on to tell Culverhouse, if you draft me

01:36:05.439 --> 01:36:07.680
if you want, so you can draft me if you want,

01:36:07.800 --> 01:36:09.920
but you're going to be wasting a draft pick.

01:36:10.060 --> 01:36:12.899
I can promise you that. So he made that very

01:36:12.899 --> 01:36:16.439
clear. And then what did the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

01:36:16.439 --> 01:36:20.340
go and do? Did they draft him? Not only did they

01:36:20.340 --> 01:36:22.420
draft him, they selected him with the first overall

01:36:22.420 --> 01:36:27.140
pick of the 1986 draft. Impressive. And he, though,

01:36:27.260 --> 01:36:31.520
true to his word, refused to play for them. He

01:36:31.520 --> 01:36:33.579
said that he believed that the failure to obtain

01:36:33.579 --> 01:36:37.239
the NCAA approval was deliberate. They were trying

01:36:37.239 --> 01:36:38.800
to get him to play football instead of baseball.

01:36:39.699 --> 01:36:42.079
I think Jackson's collegiate baseball coach,

01:36:42.140 --> 01:36:44.979
who was a chap called Hal... Baird is on record

01:36:44.979 --> 01:36:47.340
as saying that no one from either camp had mentioned

01:36:47.340 --> 01:36:49.819
the trip to him, but he feared the worst when

01:36:49.819 --> 01:36:51.800
Jackson told him the trip had been paid for.

01:36:53.199 --> 01:36:55.760
Baird maintained that had he known about the

01:36:55.760 --> 01:36:57.640
trip, he would have told Jackson about the rule

01:36:57.640 --> 01:36:59.300
that barred him from playing professional football

01:36:59.300 --> 01:37:02.619
while being an amateur baseballer. But anyway,

01:37:02.720 --> 01:37:06.739
Jackson turned down a $7 .6 million five -year

01:37:06.739 --> 01:37:09.659
contract in favor of a $1 million three -year

01:37:09.659 --> 01:37:12.520
contract with the Kansas City Royals. And the

01:37:12.520 --> 01:37:15.460
Buccaneers forfeited his rights before the 1987

01:37:15.460 --> 01:37:18.699
draft. That's the Kansas City Royals baseball.

01:37:19.000 --> 01:37:22.159
I should mention Bo Jackson. We were talking

01:37:22.159 --> 01:37:24.979
about that chat before, who was quite good at

01:37:24.979 --> 01:37:27.199
two sports. Bo Jackson was exceptionally good

01:37:27.199 --> 01:37:30.439
at two sports. And that is how this story ends.

01:37:31.420 --> 01:37:33.760
Was not that enamored by playing football after

01:37:33.760 --> 01:37:36.060
his experience in 86. So rather than attend the

01:37:36.060 --> 01:37:40.420
87 draft, he went to sleep. Found out in the

01:37:40.420 --> 01:37:41.960
morning that he'd been drafted in the seventh

01:37:41.960 --> 01:37:46.659
round. 183rd overall by the Los Angeles Raiders.

01:37:46.899 --> 01:37:51.600
Al Davis. Yeah. Who by then were the Los Angeles

01:37:51.600 --> 01:37:54.500
Raiders. Before becoming the Oakland Raiders

01:37:54.500 --> 01:37:56.479
again and now being the Las Vegas Raiders. Yeah.

01:37:58.170 --> 01:38:00.430
I'm being a bit unfair here, I think, on one

01:38:00.430 --> 01:38:04.329
Gabriel Riviera. You're not, though, because

01:38:04.329 --> 01:38:07.770
I know why. But you go ahead. By comparison,

01:38:08.029 --> 01:38:11.850
shall we say. This is coming from the perspective

01:38:11.850 --> 01:38:17.289
of a bust because of the conduct of the player

01:38:17.289 --> 01:38:20.310
himself. The Pittsburgh Steelers selected Riviera

01:38:20.310 --> 01:38:22.590
in the first round, 21st pick overall of the

01:38:22.590 --> 01:38:26.010
1983 draft. Riviera's selection was notable because

01:38:26.010 --> 01:38:28.529
the Steelers decided to pass on hometown hero,

01:38:28.869 --> 01:38:31.750
University of Pittsburgh quarterback Dan Marino.

01:38:32.090 --> 01:38:36.130
So that was their first mistake. And having played

01:38:36.130 --> 01:38:40.359
just six games. for the Steelers on October the

01:38:40.359 --> 01:38:44.399
20th 1983 Riviera was paralyzed in a car wreck

01:38:44.399 --> 01:38:46.560
and so you're probably immediately balking at

01:38:46.560 --> 01:38:49.880
why I'm having a go at Gabriel Riviera because

01:38:49.880 --> 01:38:52.939
that seems like a horrible turn of fate for him

01:38:52.939 --> 01:38:56.880
but he was drink driving and he crossed into

01:38:56.880 --> 01:39:00.619
the path of another vehicle whom he collided

01:39:00.619 --> 01:39:04.199
with and suffered very severe injuries paralyzed

01:39:04.199 --> 01:39:07.180
himself from the chest down Never played again,

01:39:07.279 --> 01:39:08.859
obviously, in his career, ended there and then.

01:39:09.039 --> 01:39:13.659
So, yeah, really, I think that's more notable,

01:39:13.680 --> 01:39:17.020
less so for Riviera's decision to drink drive

01:39:17.020 --> 01:39:19.420
and end his own career prematurely and more for

01:39:19.420 --> 01:39:21.539
the fact that the Steelers overlooked Dan Marino.

01:39:23.680 --> 01:39:25.920
And then the final one I had for you, Jack, for

01:39:25.920 --> 01:39:30.909
you to pick from was Jamarcus Russell. Yeah,

01:39:30.970 --> 01:39:33.489
I did assume this was going to be the last one.

01:39:34.689 --> 01:39:38.590
Jamarcus Russell is being picked for performance

01:39:38.590 --> 01:39:45.989
reasons. So that's the motivation behind his

01:39:45.989 --> 01:39:49.210
selection in the top five busts. So Russell selected

01:39:49.210 --> 01:39:52.899
first overall by the Raiders in 2007. He was

01:39:52.899 --> 01:39:55.420
very inconsistent. There was questions over his

01:39:55.420 --> 01:39:58.819
professionalism and his work ethic. And to illustrate

01:39:58.819 --> 01:40:00.739
that or underline that point, he was released

01:40:00.739 --> 01:40:04.779
by Oakland in 2010, so three years later. And

01:40:04.779 --> 01:40:07.000
he attempted numerous times to re -enter the

01:40:07.000 --> 01:40:11.680
league with another team, but he was never given

01:40:11.680 --> 01:40:14.020
another opportunity. And I think a couple of

01:40:14.020 --> 01:40:16.720
people had tried to warn the Raiders off signing

01:40:16.720 --> 01:40:19.659
him. The former Detroit Lions general manager

01:40:19.659 --> 01:40:23.739
and Raiders linebacker Matt Millen said in 2015

01:40:23.739 --> 01:40:26.420
that he had warned the Raiders owner Al Davis

01:40:26.420 --> 01:40:30.439
not to draft Russell because he had been removed

01:40:30.439 --> 01:40:32.439
from a pre -draft interview for being overly

01:40:32.439 --> 01:40:36.000
distracted and not paying attention or basically

01:40:36.000 --> 01:40:38.779
not taking it seriously, I think. And the Raiders

01:40:38.779 --> 01:40:41.220
head coach himself, Lane Kiffin, also stated

01:40:41.220 --> 01:40:44.239
that he didn't want to draft Russell and preferred...

01:40:44.750 --> 01:40:48.310
the future pro football hall of famer wide receiver

01:40:48.310 --> 01:40:51.689
calvin johnson uh who would have been a bad choice

01:40:51.689 --> 01:40:56.069
yeah to say and after firing him in 2008 al davis

01:40:56.069 --> 01:40:57.789
acknowledged that kiffin had opposed drafting

01:40:57.789 --> 01:41:00.689
russell but um justified his selection because

01:41:00.689 --> 01:41:03.010
he said that kiffin was indecisive towards his

01:41:03.010 --> 01:41:06.529
preferred pick um but it started pretty badly

01:41:06.529 --> 01:41:09.810
for russell uh After failing to reach a contract

01:41:09.810 --> 01:41:11.970
agreement with the Raiders, he held out through

01:41:11.970 --> 01:41:14.350
the training camp and into the first week of

01:41:14.350 --> 01:41:17.850
the 2007 NFL season. And then he eventually signed

01:41:17.850 --> 01:41:20.270
a six -year contract worth 68 million with 31

01:41:20.270 --> 01:41:22.449
.5 million guaranteed. So he did quite well in

01:41:22.449 --> 01:41:25.130
that sense. Raiders head coach didn't immediately

01:41:25.130 --> 01:41:27.569
then pick him because he hadn't been in practice,

01:41:27.810 --> 01:41:31.489
which I think is understandable. And then by

01:41:31.489 --> 01:41:36.229
2010, he was described as annually and incredibly

01:41:36.229 --> 01:41:40.770
overweight. Everything you can possibly have

01:41:40.770 --> 01:41:43.670
contributing to what not to do as an NFL player,

01:41:43.770 --> 01:41:46.270
especially a quarterback. I think he also had

01:41:46.270 --> 01:41:48.729
some off -field indiscretions of which I'm not

01:41:48.729 --> 01:41:51.850
familiar with the particulars. They released

01:41:51.850 --> 01:41:54.569
him when they traded for Jason Campbell from

01:41:54.569 --> 01:41:57.770
the then Washington Redskins. He's often considered

01:41:57.770 --> 01:42:00.510
one of the greatest NFL draft busts. He finished

01:42:00.510 --> 01:42:04.529
his career with a passer rating of 65 .2. Terrible.

01:42:04.689 --> 01:42:09.260
His first year was 50. And yeah, he threw 18

01:42:09.260 --> 01:42:11.239
touchdowns in his career, but was intercepted

01:42:11.239 --> 01:42:17.159
23 times. He fumbled 25 times. So being a quarterback,

01:42:17.560 --> 01:42:21.579
obviously everyone needs to study the playbooks,

01:42:21.600 --> 01:42:24.340
needs to study game film to try and gain advantage

01:42:24.340 --> 01:42:26.960
over your opponents. So they'll give players

01:42:26.960 --> 01:42:30.600
game film to go back and watch overnight. It's

01:42:30.600 --> 01:42:34.520
basically homework to do. And they were so convinced

01:42:34.520 --> 01:42:36.619
that... that Jamarcus Russell wasn't watching

01:42:36.619 --> 01:42:38.840
the game film. That one day they sent him home

01:42:38.840 --> 01:42:41.300
with blank tapes and asked him the next day,

01:42:41.340 --> 01:42:42.439
oh, did you watch the film? He's like, oh yeah,

01:42:42.520 --> 01:42:44.779
it's really good. Yeah, it's great. That's amazing.

01:42:45.079 --> 01:42:48.100
It's just like everything that can go into making

01:42:48.100 --> 01:42:52.359
a, yeah, what not to do as a first round, first

01:42:52.359 --> 01:42:54.939
overall pick. Jamarcus Russell, ladies and gentlemen.

01:42:55.640 --> 01:42:58.960
Incredible stuff. Yeah, I think to wrap this

01:42:58.960 --> 01:43:02.159
up, his tenure was so bad that for several years

01:43:02.159 --> 01:43:06.949
after he He played in the NFL. Nobody at the

01:43:06.949 --> 01:43:09.729
franchise would wear his number at the Raiders,

01:43:09.789 --> 01:43:12.350
which was the number two. I don't think that

01:43:12.350 --> 01:43:13.970
didn't last forever. Someone ended up taking

01:43:13.970 --> 01:43:18.449
it. The opposite of a retired number. Yeah, exactly.

01:43:19.050 --> 01:43:22.010
Voluntarily rejected. A shunned number, yeah.

01:43:22.390 --> 01:43:24.750
So yeah, out of those, you make of that what

01:43:24.750 --> 01:43:27.479
you will. Do you want me to pick one? Because

01:43:27.479 --> 01:43:30.119
I'm picking Jamarcus Russell. The other one,

01:43:30.159 --> 01:43:32.579
there's factors at play. There's no excuse whatsoever.

01:43:32.920 --> 01:43:35.020
A, for the Raiders to have drafted him. They

01:43:35.020 --> 01:43:38.319
should have known better. And B, for him himself

01:43:38.319 --> 01:43:44.300
to not take that opportunity. Oh, that's incredible.

01:43:44.739 --> 01:43:47.560
And Al Davis should have known better. I would

01:43:47.560 --> 01:43:51.619
probably put the Tampa Bay in there as well because

01:43:51.619 --> 01:43:54.859
they were literally told, don't pick me. I won't

01:43:54.859 --> 01:43:58.060
play for you. Yeah. Oh, yeah, fair enough. At

01:43:58.060 --> 01:44:00.840
least he was a good player, though, Bo. Yeah.

01:44:01.319 --> 01:44:02.939
Although he had a much better baseball career.

01:44:03.600 --> 01:44:05.859
Do you want to hear the top five late picks?

01:44:06.119 --> 01:44:08.140
I do want to hear the top five late picks. These

01:44:08.140 --> 01:44:11.479
are possibly in order, so I'll do them in reverse.

01:44:12.079 --> 01:44:14.060
In fifth, this is a little bit controversial.

01:44:14.640 --> 01:44:16.060
You mentioned him, actually, when we were chatting

01:44:16.060 --> 01:44:17.380
about this the other day, but I picked Jason

01:44:17.380 --> 01:44:21.380
Kelsey. Yes, I think he's brilliant. Yeah, brilliant

01:44:21.380 --> 01:44:23.359
pick. Because he was selected by the Philadelphia

01:44:23.359 --> 01:44:28.079
Eagles in the sixth round, 191st overall in 2011.

01:44:28.680 --> 01:44:31.819
He's a center. And he didn't miss a start from

01:44:31.819 --> 01:44:35.560
2014 until the end of his career. A franchise

01:44:35.560 --> 01:44:39.739
record 159 consecutive starts. He also won a

01:44:39.739 --> 01:44:42.840
Super Bowl, Super Bowl 52 in 2018 against the

01:44:42.840 --> 01:44:45.420
Patriots. One of my favourite Super Bowl ever.

01:44:46.300 --> 01:44:49.779
And made a second Super Bowl final, Super Bowl

01:44:49.779 --> 01:44:54.239
57 in 2023, losing to his brother against the

01:44:54.239 --> 01:44:57.500
Chiefs. Slightly more famous brother. Yeah. Slightly

01:44:57.500 --> 01:44:59.930
more famous girlfriend. Yeah, slightly more famous

01:44:59.930 --> 01:45:03.550
girlfriend indeed. Taylor Swift, for those who

01:45:03.550 --> 01:45:06.789
don't know. I mean, yeah, he basically made six

01:45:06.789 --> 01:45:11.409
first -team All -Pros, seven Pro Bowls. But the

01:45:11.409 --> 01:45:12.970
thing I really love about him is he had a 13

01:45:12.970 --> 01:45:14.890
-year career and was a one -club man. He was

01:45:14.890 --> 01:45:16.510
an ever -present... And they love him. Yeah.

01:45:16.609 --> 01:45:19.930
They love him. We're in a city that has extremely

01:45:19.930 --> 01:45:23.300
passionate sports fans, shall we say. Yeah. as

01:45:23.300 --> 01:45:25.079
we saw the other day watching The Turnaround.

01:45:25.100 --> 01:45:26.380
If you haven't seen The Turnaround documentary

01:45:26.380 --> 01:45:28.479
on Netflix, please watch that. It's a baseball

01:45:28.479 --> 01:45:30.739
documentary, but it is one of the most wonderful

01:45:30.739 --> 01:45:34.100
pieces of short film making I've ever seen. Yes,

01:45:34.100 --> 01:45:36.840
very good, isn't it? But yes, Philly fans are

01:45:36.840 --> 01:45:41.920
mad. Sports mad city. So to endear yourself to

01:45:41.920 --> 01:45:44.979
them is no mean feat. So who's I go second? I

01:45:44.979 --> 01:45:47.079
think I went Shannon, sorry, second, fourth.

01:45:47.460 --> 01:45:52.140
I went Shannon Sharp. Ah, yes. I like this one

01:45:52.140 --> 01:45:53.699
because he played Division 2 college football,

01:45:53.899 --> 01:45:56.819
which undermined people's perceptions of him.

01:45:56.920 --> 01:45:59.279
And he was also considered too big to be a receiver

01:45:59.279 --> 01:46:04.960
and too small to be a tight end. What? Yeah,

01:46:05.000 --> 01:46:06.460
Scouts don't know anything. In that in -between

01:46:06.460 --> 01:46:09.760
zone. No, exactly. He was eventually selected

01:46:09.760 --> 01:46:13.760
in the seventh round with the 92nd pick by Denver.

01:46:15.000 --> 01:46:19.180
192nd. 190 seconds, sorry. What did I say? 90

01:46:19.180 --> 01:46:21.039
seconds. We've got to say seventh round would

01:46:21.039 --> 01:46:25.380
be deeper than that. 190 seconds. His first two

01:46:25.380 --> 01:46:26.979
years were very underwhelming because he was

01:46:26.979 --> 01:46:30.220
picked as a receiver, but then they converted

01:46:30.220 --> 01:46:32.779
him to a tight end and sort of the rest is history

01:46:32.779 --> 01:46:37.180
really. He remained with Denver until 1999. He

01:46:37.180 --> 01:46:40.380
won two championship rings, so two Super Bowls

01:46:40.380 --> 01:46:42.640
that is, and then after a two -year stint with

01:46:42.640 --> 01:46:44.479
the Baltimore Ravens where he won another championship

01:46:44.479 --> 01:46:47.300
ring. Oh, yeah. who returned to the Broncos.

01:46:47.619 --> 01:46:50.119
And he played there until 2003. And he's regarded

01:46:50.119 --> 01:46:52.159
as one of the greatest tight ends of all time.

01:46:52.260 --> 01:46:54.460
That's a great shout, that is. I really like

01:46:54.460 --> 01:46:57.699
that one. Yeah, he ranks third in tight end receptions,

01:46:57.699 --> 01:47:00.279
receiving yards and receiving touchdowns. It

01:47:00.279 --> 01:47:02.739
was also the first NFL tight end to amass over

01:47:02.739 --> 01:47:05.939
10 ,000 receiving yards. It's a Hall of Famer,

01:47:06.020 --> 01:47:11.239
2011. Very nice. So Shannon Sharp. I did have

01:47:11.239 --> 01:47:12.359
these the other way around, but I'm going to

01:47:12.359 --> 01:47:16.430
switch them. So second, I put... Sorry, not second.

01:47:16.449 --> 01:47:18.210
I'm getting these wrong. It's fine. They're just

01:47:18.210 --> 01:47:23.789
numbers. Third. Richard Sherman. Yes. Yeah. Seattle

01:47:23.789 --> 01:47:27.010
Seahawks selecting Sherman in the fifth round,

01:47:27.130 --> 01:47:31.430
154th overall. Yeah. The 2011 draft. Sherman

01:47:31.430 --> 01:47:35.989
was the 25th cornerback drafted. And whilst watching

01:47:35.989 --> 01:47:39.039
the draft... at home with his family Sherman

01:47:39.039 --> 01:47:42.039
was livid about the players who he perceived

01:47:42.039 --> 01:47:45.220
as inferior to him getting drafted before him

01:47:45.220 --> 01:47:47.479
and if anybody's ever seen any clips of Richard

01:47:47.479 --> 01:47:49.340
Sherman or heard any interviews with him he is

01:47:49.340 --> 01:47:52.500
not short on confidence he is a very intelligent

01:47:52.500 --> 01:47:56.520
man famously intelligent man very capable of

01:47:56.520 --> 01:48:00.699
using his words During his time at the Seahawks,

01:48:00.699 --> 01:48:02.699
Sherman was part of the Legion of Boom, which

01:48:02.699 --> 01:48:06.159
is one of the great monikers. I love that. The

01:48:06.159 --> 01:48:09.920
defensive unit at the Seahawks. A secondary,

01:48:09.939 --> 01:48:13.020
as they say, that led the NFL in pass defense

01:48:13.020 --> 01:48:17.680
in 2013 and 14. His unit, the Legion of Boom,

01:48:17.739 --> 01:48:20.899
helped the Seahawks win the Super Bowl. They

01:48:20.899 --> 01:48:25.470
won 43 -8 over Denver, which is... well matched

01:48:25.470 --> 01:48:27.670
the third largest margin of victory in the history

01:48:27.670 --> 01:48:29.510
of the Superbowl. Should have won two Superbowls.

01:48:30.470 --> 01:48:33.210
Seahawks. Yeah. They blew that one against the

01:48:33.210 --> 01:48:35.170
Patriots where they decided to throw from the

01:48:35.170 --> 01:48:38.029
one yard line. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was

01:48:38.029 --> 01:48:42.069
wild. Yeah. Yeah. And that would, you were, in

01:48:42.069 --> 01:48:43.529
fact, I didn't know that was the game, but I

01:48:43.529 --> 01:48:45.229
did say the Seahawks made the Superbowl the following

01:48:45.229 --> 01:48:47.689
season. I lost a very close game to the Patriots,

01:48:47.689 --> 01:48:52.100
but that is the circumstances. Yeah, after playing

01:48:52.100 --> 01:48:54.039
for the Seahawks, he went to the 49ers for three

01:48:54.039 --> 01:48:55.899
seasons. He made another Super Bowl appearance

01:48:55.899 --> 01:48:58.079
there, which is the one with Brock, I think.

01:48:59.319 --> 01:49:01.720
Or maybe that's a bit earlier. I don't know.

01:49:02.119 --> 01:49:05.279
You might know. Where was that? Sorry. Sherman

01:49:05.279 --> 01:49:07.859
went to the 49ers and made another Super Bowl

01:49:07.859 --> 01:49:09.939
appearance. No, it would have been earlier than

01:49:09.939 --> 01:49:13.800
that. Yeah. But anyway, he's really good. It

01:49:13.800 --> 01:49:16.899
would have been the first time Mahomes won it.

01:49:17.619 --> 01:49:19.939
Oh, nice. Yeah, they beat the 49ers, I think.

01:49:20.670 --> 01:49:24.369
Yeah, but he's... He was the NFL Interceptions

01:49:24.369 --> 01:49:28.449
leader in 2013. He's just basically one of the

01:49:28.449 --> 01:49:31.810
greatest cornerbacks full -time. Yes. Great call.

01:49:32.850 --> 01:49:35.250
Magnificent call. I'm very interested to see

01:49:35.250 --> 01:49:36.829
how they go from here, actually, if that's number

01:49:36.829 --> 01:49:39.510
three. I can't actually... I know who number

01:49:39.510 --> 01:49:41.149
one is, but I can't think who number two is right

01:49:41.149 --> 01:49:44.329
now. So number two, I pick Joe Montana. Oh, yes,

01:49:44.449 --> 01:49:49.239
of course. Yeah, yeah. So I'd like... He wasn't

01:49:49.239 --> 01:49:51.439
really rated by many scouts. We'll come to our

01:49:51.439 --> 01:49:54.760
opinions on scouts, I'm sure. He was very good

01:49:54.760 --> 01:49:56.539
at college, but they just didn't rate him. And

01:49:56.539 --> 01:50:00.659
then in the 79 draft, San Francisco 49ers selected

01:50:00.659 --> 01:50:02.960
him at the end of the third round of the 82nd

01:50:02.960 --> 01:50:06.000
pick. He was the fourth quarterback taken behind

01:50:06.000 --> 01:50:11.939
Phil Simms, Steve Fuller, and some chap called

01:50:11.939 --> 01:50:13.859
Thompson, whose first name I can't remember.

01:50:14.670 --> 01:50:16.369
Yeah, and I think the thing that I really liked

01:50:16.369 --> 01:50:18.510
about Montana is he recovered from a career -threatening

01:50:18.510 --> 01:50:22.270
injury in his back. He had a spinal disc injury,

01:50:22.449 --> 01:50:26.609
but he went on to become, well, he is widely

01:50:26.609 --> 01:50:27.989
regarded as one of the greatest quarterbacks

01:50:27.989 --> 01:50:30.289
of all time. He won two Super Bowls before his

01:50:30.289 --> 01:50:32.529
injury and then perhaps more impressively two

01:50:32.529 --> 01:50:37.670
after, which is why I also think he's number

01:50:37.670 --> 01:50:41.770
two. Basically. And he was the first player to

01:50:41.770 --> 01:50:46.289
be named the Super Bowl MVP three times. Two

01:50:46.289 --> 01:50:48.710
of those were won after his injury. He holds

01:50:48.710 --> 01:50:50.729
the Super Bowl career record for most passes

01:50:50.729 --> 01:50:55.670
without an interception. 122 in four games. Impressive.

01:50:55.970 --> 01:50:58.590
And has an all -time highest passer rating of

01:50:58.590 --> 01:51:01.630
127 .8, I think, in the Super Bowl. And yeah,

01:51:01.689 --> 01:51:05.420
1993 he was traded to Kansas City Chiefs. where

01:51:05.420 --> 01:51:08.159
he played for the last two seasons and led the

01:51:08.159 --> 01:51:10.420
franchise to its first AFC Championship game.

01:51:10.979 --> 01:51:13.159
And he was inducted into the Hall of Fame in

01:51:13.159 --> 01:51:17.220
2000. So that's Joe Montana. And probably considered

01:51:17.220 --> 01:51:19.699
the greatest quarterback of all time by a lot

01:51:19.699 --> 01:51:24.140
of people. Until? Until. Number one. Number one.

01:51:24.220 --> 01:51:28.100
Any guesses? I think there's probably people

01:51:28.100 --> 01:51:29.840
who don't know a whole lot about American football

01:51:29.840 --> 01:51:31.800
who could probably have a pretty good guess about

01:51:31.800 --> 01:51:33.939
that one. But put us out of our misery, Ben.

01:51:34.810 --> 01:51:37.689
Thomas Brady. There we go. I don't actually know

01:51:37.689 --> 01:51:40.369
if his first name is Thomas, but I full -named

01:51:40.369 --> 01:51:44.409
him. I bet he's got a couple of middle names

01:51:44.409 --> 01:51:46.970
as well. He looks the type. Thomas Edward Patrick

01:51:46.970 --> 01:51:50.029
Brady Jr. There we go. There we are. Perfect.

01:51:50.689 --> 01:51:53.569
Selected in the sixth round, which is absolutely

01:51:53.569 --> 01:51:59.720
disgusting. I mean, yes. But also, have you seen

01:51:59.720 --> 01:52:02.199
some of his footage of the NFL Combine? So the

01:52:02.199 --> 01:52:03.819
Combine, I should say, I haven't really mentioned

01:52:03.819 --> 01:52:06.359
this yet, is they have like a day where they

01:52:06.359 --> 01:52:09.060
do put rookies through a lot of drills and see

01:52:09.060 --> 01:52:10.960
how fast they can run, see how agile they are,

01:52:11.020 --> 01:52:13.220
see how the throwing is and stuff. And if you

01:52:13.220 --> 01:52:15.640
look at videos of Tom Brady from there, A, he

01:52:15.640 --> 01:52:18.020
was slow. He was incredibly slow. He never got

01:52:18.020 --> 01:52:19.840
that much quicker during his career. But also,

01:52:20.060 --> 01:52:22.819
he looked like a lanky dweeb. Like, I can see

01:52:22.819 --> 01:52:24.699
why he was drafted low. That's what even Mr.

01:52:24.819 --> 01:52:28.869
Croft said. Yeah. Yeah, so Robert Kraft, who's

01:52:28.869 --> 01:52:31.029
the owner of the Patriots, he said when he first

01:52:31.029 --> 01:52:34.750
met Brady, I think this is true anyway, he said

01:52:34.750 --> 01:52:38.609
that he had this image of Tom Brady coming down

01:52:38.609 --> 01:52:41.010
the old Foxborough Stadium steps with a pizza

01:52:41.010 --> 01:52:43.369
box under his arm, and he described him as a

01:52:43.369 --> 01:52:46.090
skinny beanpole. And when he introduced himself

01:52:46.090 --> 01:52:49.449
to me, he said, Hi, Mr. Kraft. And he was about

01:52:49.449 --> 01:52:51.829
to say who he was, but I said, I know who you

01:52:51.829 --> 01:52:54.090
are. You're Tom Brady. You're our sixth round

01:52:54.090 --> 01:52:57.140
draft choice. And Kraft recalled Brady responding,

01:52:57.539 --> 01:53:00.319
he looked at me dead in the eye and said, I'm

01:53:00.319 --> 01:53:02.199
the best decision this organization has ever

01:53:02.199 --> 01:53:08.520
made. Correct. Very correct. The thing that's

01:53:08.520 --> 01:53:11.039
really insane about it is he was picked 199th

01:53:11.039 --> 01:53:15.340
overall, sixth round of the 2000 draft, using

01:53:15.340 --> 01:53:17.819
a compensatory pick that the Patriots earned

01:53:17.819 --> 01:53:20.699
due to the loss of punter Tom Tooper to free

01:53:20.699 --> 01:53:24.560
agency in 1999. I didn't know that. He and his

01:53:24.560 --> 01:53:26.640
family, so Brady and his family, believed he'd

01:53:26.640 --> 01:53:29.060
be drafted in the second or third round. And

01:53:29.060 --> 01:53:31.800
they were watching the draft on TV. And six other

01:53:31.800 --> 01:53:34.340
quarterbacks were drafted before him. And Brady

01:53:34.340 --> 01:53:36.500
was so embarrassed, he says he briefly left his

01:53:36.500 --> 01:53:38.979
family home during the sixth round and cried

01:53:38.979 --> 01:53:42.119
when recalling the experience. He basically said

01:53:42.119 --> 01:53:45.439
that when the Patriots notified him that he was

01:53:45.439 --> 01:53:48.000
being drafted, he was grateful not to have to

01:53:48.000 --> 01:53:51.260
become an insurance salesman. Incredible. Yeah.

01:53:51.840 --> 01:53:54.260
Even the Patriots. It might be the case that

01:53:54.260 --> 01:53:56.460
if they hadn't, he might have had to. It's not

01:53:56.460 --> 01:53:59.739
even the fact that he was picked that is incredible.

01:53:59.979 --> 01:54:02.220
It was how he then became the Patriots starter.

01:54:02.439 --> 01:54:06.560
It was because they were playing the Jets in

01:54:06.560 --> 01:54:09.979
2001. A couple of weeks after 9 -11, I think

01:54:09.979 --> 01:54:12.220
maybe the first round of fixtures that went back

01:54:12.220 --> 01:54:14.220
on after, obviously they were all cancelled after

01:54:14.220 --> 01:54:16.739
that for obvious reasons. But they were playing

01:54:16.739 --> 01:54:19.960
the Jets and Mo Lewis, who was the Jets linebacker,

01:54:20.480 --> 01:54:23.800
level Drew Bledsoe, who was the Patriots quarterback,

01:54:24.060 --> 01:54:28.020
with a good hit. We'll call it a good hit. It

01:54:28.020 --> 01:54:32.899
was such a good hit that Bledsoe was rushed to

01:54:32.899 --> 01:54:35.039
hospital. It was discovered that Lewis's hit

01:54:35.039 --> 01:54:37.380
had sheared a blood vessel in his chest. Jesus

01:54:37.380 --> 01:54:39.239
Christ. Which had him bleeding out internally,

01:54:39.479 --> 01:54:44.300
a pint of blood every hour. Whoa. So, A. Thank

01:54:44.300 --> 01:54:47.340
God he got the attention he needed there. But

01:54:47.340 --> 01:54:49.539
being meant that Tom Brady had to come in as

01:54:49.539 --> 01:54:53.659
the starter from then on out. And Bledsoe would

01:54:53.659 --> 01:54:56.979
never regain his place because Tom Brady led

01:54:56.979 --> 01:55:00.279
the Patriots to a Super Bowl and they won it.

01:55:00.859 --> 01:55:05.199
Incredible. It's a staggering story. It's one

01:55:05.199 --> 01:55:11.119
of those stories that simply, I mean, it has

01:55:11.119 --> 01:55:13.279
so many pieces that need to come together. But

01:55:13.279 --> 01:55:15.439
then, Tom Brady obviously goes on to win seven

01:55:15.439 --> 01:55:17.359
Super Bowls in the end, six for the Patriots,

01:55:17.380 --> 01:55:20.739
hence best decision you ever made, correct? And

01:55:20.739 --> 01:55:23.539
obviously one for the Buccaneers as well, before

01:55:23.539 --> 01:55:26.159
signing a ridiculously large contract to be a

01:55:26.159 --> 01:55:30.880
broadcaster. Am I a Brazilian supermodel? Yeah.

01:55:31.159 --> 01:55:36.039
So the Patriots, that Super Bowl that year, against

01:55:36.039 --> 01:55:38.420
the St. Louis Rams, as they were then, now the

01:55:38.420 --> 01:55:40.579
Los Angeles Rams, formerly the Cleveland Rams.

01:55:42.310 --> 01:55:47.310
They were favourites by 14 points. Why are they

01:55:47.310 --> 01:55:49.930
ahead? I think, was that the year they were the

01:55:49.930 --> 01:55:52.210
greatest show on turf, they were called? That's

01:55:52.210 --> 01:55:55.510
a cool name. Which is a great name. Kurt Warner.

01:55:55.789 --> 01:55:57.750
Kurt Warner's incredible. I can't mention Kurt

01:55:57.750 --> 01:56:00.069
Warner in this episode because he was undrafted.

01:56:00.170 --> 01:56:04.350
That's wild. If it wasn't for the fact this is

01:56:04.350 --> 01:56:06.189
the lowest draft picks ever, you'd probably have

01:56:06.189 --> 01:56:08.689
Kurt Warner at number two on this list. He was

01:56:08.689 --> 01:56:12.529
undrafted, came in, led... Led a Super Bowl win

01:56:12.529 --> 01:56:15.609
for the Rams and then obviously led them back

01:56:15.609 --> 01:56:18.390
to the Super Bowl here. Great show on turf offense.

01:56:18.909 --> 01:56:21.489
But yeah, Brady. You said you can't mention Kurt

01:56:21.489 --> 01:56:23.409
Warner, but you got him in. Yeah, I got him in.

01:56:24.470 --> 01:56:25.949
There's been a lot of films about him. He's a

01:56:25.949 --> 01:56:29.010
strange guy, but I like him. Kind of likable.

01:56:30.609 --> 01:56:32.869
But yeah, and Brady kept his cool in a difficult

01:56:32.869 --> 01:56:37.189
situation. Drove them forward and after the Rams

01:56:37.189 --> 01:56:40.250
had pulled them, the Patriots had a lead. Rams

01:56:40.250 --> 01:56:42.550
pulled it back to level. Brady kept his cool,

01:56:42.670 --> 01:56:47.770
drove them forward. I think the field goal went

01:56:47.770 --> 01:56:51.869
over as time elapsed to win it. Good Super Bowl.

01:56:52.069 --> 01:56:57.449
That is a good Super Bowl. I don't know how to

01:56:57.449 --> 01:57:02.130
put Brady's accolades into a succinct summary.

01:57:03.250 --> 01:57:07.689
Here's the GOAT. Let me try. Seven Super Bowls,

01:57:07.689 --> 01:57:11.500
you said. Three and four years between 2002 and

01:57:11.500 --> 01:57:17.079
2004. He also lost in 2008, 2012, and 2017. Usually

01:57:17.079 --> 01:57:20.479
against the Manning. Yeah, and they're quite

01:57:20.479 --> 01:57:25.460
good. Won three and five between 2015 and 2019.

01:57:26.180 --> 01:57:29.000
Then again in 2021 with the Bucks, where he beat

01:57:29.000 --> 01:57:33.260
Mahomes. He's a five -time Super Bowl MVP. He's

01:57:33.260 --> 01:57:36.420
a three -time NFL MVP just this regular season.

01:57:36.600 --> 01:57:41.640
In 23 seasons, he made 10 Super Bowls, seven

01:57:41.640 --> 01:57:45.439
wins, and another four conference finals, which

01:57:45.439 --> 01:57:48.220
means that half of his seasons made conference

01:57:48.220 --> 01:57:52.439
finals. Yeah. Played till he was 45, NFL passing

01:57:52.439 --> 01:57:56.500
leader for yards, for completions, for touchdowns.

01:57:56.779 --> 01:57:59.970
It's insane. He wasn't wrong when he said that

01:57:59.970 --> 01:58:02.109
to Robert Kraft. Yeah, he wasn't wrong. And the

01:58:02.109 --> 01:58:04.390
thing that's really crazy is even the Patriots

01:58:04.390 --> 01:58:07.909
nearly didn't pick him. They were deciding between

01:58:07.909 --> 01:58:11.430
Brady and a guy called Tim Ratte, who was later

01:58:11.430 --> 01:58:13.229
entered the league as the seventh round pick

01:58:13.229 --> 01:58:16.810
or 212th overall for the 49ers. And Ratte would

01:58:16.810 --> 01:58:20.569
go on to make 18 starts over eight years, accruing

01:58:20.569 --> 01:58:23.729
63 sacks. Yeah, but I mean, at that point, you're

01:58:23.729 --> 01:58:25.890
picking backup quarterbacks. They didn't pick

01:58:25.890 --> 01:58:27.569
him round six and thinking this guy's going to

01:58:27.569 --> 01:58:30.050
win us some Super Bowls. let alone six. Six.

01:58:30.270 --> 01:58:32.670
Incredible. It is an incredible story. And like

01:58:32.670 --> 01:58:35.050
him, I hate him because I know he's got his detractors

01:58:35.050 --> 01:58:37.130
as well. Yeah. Deflategate. It's an incredible

01:58:37.130 --> 01:58:40.989
story. Yeah. Yeah. A story for another day, perhaps.

01:58:41.529 --> 01:58:45.050
I mean, we're putting the hours into this one.

01:58:45.109 --> 01:58:46.670
I'm not sure we've got time for much else. No,

01:58:46.670 --> 01:58:49.050
I know. But yeah, those are my five, man. I mean,

01:58:49.050 --> 01:58:50.909
you're not going to disagree with Brady. No one's

01:58:50.909 --> 01:58:52.289
going to disagree with Brady unless they've lost

01:58:52.289 --> 01:58:57.810
their minds. No. But yeah. I think the draft

01:58:57.810 --> 01:58:59.529
is one of the coolest things. And I think for

01:58:59.529 --> 01:59:02.789
me, what it serves to demonstrate is at least

01:59:02.789 --> 01:59:04.949
those, I know it's a very small sample size,

01:59:05.029 --> 01:59:07.409
only picking five, but what it serves to demonstrate

01:59:07.409 --> 01:59:09.409
to a certain extent is that the scouts don't

01:59:09.409 --> 01:59:11.529
know what they're doing. I think to a certain

01:59:11.529 --> 01:59:16.010
extent, yeah. I mean, I actually, I graphed this

01:59:16.010 --> 01:59:17.750
out and I might put some of the graphs up on

01:59:17.750 --> 01:59:20.630
our blue sky or somewhere. Yeah, you should.

01:59:20.729 --> 01:59:21.970
Because they're quite interesting. They're very

01:59:21.970 --> 01:59:26.109
interesting. Yeah. You get outliers. And there

01:59:26.109 --> 01:59:28.590
is certainly a trend towards performance early

01:59:28.590 --> 01:59:31.109
in pick. Obviously, Brady's a massive outlier.

01:59:31.130 --> 01:59:32.810
You get other players who are outliers, many

01:59:32.810 --> 01:59:34.729
of whom you've mentioned, who do well despite

01:59:34.729 --> 01:59:38.210
a low draft pick. Generally, a lot of the times

01:59:38.210 --> 01:59:40.069
when you're drafting, it is fairly obvious a

01:59:40.069 --> 01:59:41.489
player's going to do well if you draft them in

01:59:41.489 --> 01:59:44.369
the first round. It's no big shock. And it could

01:59:44.369 --> 01:59:47.729
be the case that you end up with players like

01:59:47.729 --> 01:59:50.170
Patrick Mahomes, who went, I think, 15th pick

01:59:50.170 --> 01:59:53.010
or something like that. Aaron Rodgers went 32nd

01:59:53.010 --> 01:59:57.239
pick. who obviously end up being great players

01:59:57.239 --> 01:59:59.279
who get picked low in the first round. Jerry

01:59:59.279 --> 02:00:01.539
Rice, I think he was about 16th pick, best receiver

02:00:01.539 --> 02:00:03.539
of all time. But at least these guys are going

02:00:03.539 --> 02:00:05.359
first round. At least they're going first round.

02:00:05.520 --> 02:00:10.579
I mean, the outliers are rare and you can call

02:00:10.579 --> 02:00:13.880
them exceptions, but it's more, honestly, the

02:00:13.880 --> 02:00:16.060
amount of duds that get picked early on. Players

02:00:16.060 --> 02:00:18.239
like Jamarcus Russell, who despite being warned,

02:00:18.319 --> 02:00:21.859
despite Al Davis had 50 years of experience behind

02:00:21.859 --> 02:00:24.479
him. more than that 60 years of experience 60

02:00:24.479 --> 02:00:26.460
-70 years of experience behind him to make that

02:00:26.460 --> 02:00:29.979
decision and has made a foolish decision obviously

02:00:29.979 --> 02:00:31.779
with I'm guessing the backing of his scouting

02:00:31.779 --> 02:00:34.199
team or wherever else but it's it's incredible

02:00:34.199 --> 02:00:37.680
that you look at someone like Tom Brady and you

02:00:37.680 --> 02:00:39.380
think in hindsight why was he overlooked he was

02:00:39.380 --> 02:00:41.399
overlooked because he looked like he did and

02:00:41.399 --> 02:00:43.159
because he didn't look like the type he didn't

02:00:43.159 --> 02:00:45.220
look like he had the muscle mass or the speed

02:00:45.220 --> 02:00:47.710
or anything like that to make up for it but the

02:00:47.710 --> 02:00:50.029
important thing is and always has been his brain

02:00:50.029 --> 02:00:53.510
his ability to stay calm under pressure and it

02:00:53.510 --> 02:00:55.369
is obviously hard to quantify that sometimes

02:00:55.369 --> 02:00:58.170
compared to speed compared to passing arm or

02:00:58.170 --> 02:01:02.170
wherever else but like I just find I find there's

02:01:02.170 --> 02:01:04.390
some insane decisions that yes we're looking

02:01:04.390 --> 02:01:06.789
at the benefit of hindsight but even at the time

02:01:06.789 --> 02:01:09.090
how do you come to that decision trade all your

02:01:09.090 --> 02:01:12.189
draft picks for one running back or two go for

02:01:12.189 --> 02:01:14.069
someone who everyone's warning you against like

02:01:14.069 --> 02:01:15.829
that but we're also looking at the benefit of

02:01:15.829 --> 02:01:17.430
hindsight from the perspective of an amateur

02:01:17.430 --> 02:01:20.989
mate I'm not watching collegiate football week

02:01:20.989 --> 02:01:22.989
in week out I'm not accruing all the statistical

02:01:22.989 --> 02:01:27.229
data like and I'm not saying I would do better

02:01:27.229 --> 02:01:29.390
personally because that's an absurd claim but

02:01:29.390 --> 02:01:31.890
what I'm saying is that if you hold yourself

02:01:31.890 --> 02:01:35.909
out to be a scout like and your profession is

02:01:35.909 --> 02:01:38.029
the identification of talent you would think

02:01:38.029 --> 02:01:41.800
that there would be a a greater hit rate. Yeah.

02:01:42.180 --> 02:01:45.760
I think it just serves to illustrate that when

02:01:45.760 --> 02:01:49.380
someone is 20, 21 years old or in other sports

02:01:49.380 --> 02:01:52.239
younger, you have no idea if they're going to

02:01:52.239 --> 02:01:55.100
be good or not. Yeah. With the very except like

02:01:55.100 --> 02:02:00.220
with few exceptions, like where someone is genuinely

02:02:00.220 --> 02:02:04.500
like freakishly talented. Yeah. Beyond their,

02:02:04.560 --> 02:02:10.770
beyond their developmental years. But yeah, most

02:02:10.770 --> 02:02:13.829
of the time you're guessing. It is a lot of guesswork.

02:02:13.930 --> 02:02:15.489
And even when you look at some of the top players

02:02:15.489 --> 02:02:17.750
from this year's draft, we've already mentioned

02:02:17.750 --> 02:02:20.489
Travis Hunter, who's a chap who can play wide

02:02:20.489 --> 02:02:22.890
receiver and cornerback. That's fun. As fun as

02:02:22.890 --> 02:02:26.310
it sounds, and as fun as it is, the reckoning

02:02:26.310 --> 02:02:27.710
is he's probably going to get drafted by the

02:02:27.710 --> 02:02:29.829
Browns, number two overall, because I think the

02:02:29.829 --> 02:02:31.430
Titans will go for quarterback, probably Cam

02:02:31.430 --> 02:02:34.949
Ward, maybe Shadow Sanders. But yeah, Travis

02:02:34.949 --> 02:02:37.460
Hunter, he ends up at the Browns. Are they going

02:02:37.460 --> 02:02:39.199
to play him cornerback and wide receiver? I'd

02:02:39.199 --> 02:02:40.800
be very interested to see what they end up doing.

02:02:41.439 --> 02:02:43.060
Because he'll end up getting specialised. He'll

02:02:43.060 --> 02:02:45.180
end up getting made into another piece of the

02:02:45.180 --> 02:02:47.560
jigsaw. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope

02:02:47.560 --> 02:02:49.699
he doesn't. He is insisting upon being considered

02:02:49.699 --> 02:02:51.880
a two -way player. You just don't get two -way

02:02:51.880 --> 02:02:54.840
players in the NFL. And you get occasional ones,

02:02:54.960 --> 02:02:58.479
like sometimes Gronkowski used to play in defence

02:02:58.479 --> 02:03:03.399
for the Patriots. He'd go in as a safety or whatever.

02:03:03.699 --> 02:03:07.590
Sometimes, obviously. You've got players who've

02:03:07.590 --> 02:03:09.510
played a bit of wide receiving when they were

02:03:09.510 --> 02:03:14.229
cornerback, like Deion Sanders. Yeah. That'd

02:03:14.229 --> 02:03:16.529
be fun. Deion Sanders, who was Travis Hunter's

02:03:16.529 --> 02:03:22.630
coach at Colorado Buffaloes. Yeah, so. Oh, that's

02:03:22.630 --> 02:03:25.989
boss. I'm excited about this year's draw. I'm

02:03:25.989 --> 02:03:27.989
excited to see where the pieces fall. I did have

02:03:27.989 --> 02:03:29.569
a bit more to go through in this, some of the

02:03:29.569 --> 02:03:31.550
more modern stuff. I was going to talk about

02:03:31.550 --> 02:03:36.789
Andrew Luck. I was going to talk about... Peyton

02:03:36.789 --> 02:03:39.010
Manning a little bit, but I think we can save

02:03:39.010 --> 02:03:41.909
a few things for another day. We have gone quite

02:03:41.909 --> 02:03:43.750
long here. We'll be doing the Super Bowl as well.

02:03:44.430 --> 02:03:45.729
Absolutely, of course we'll be doing the Super

02:03:45.729 --> 02:03:47.090
Bowl. Might even do one for the playoffs as well.

02:03:47.310 --> 02:03:52.630
Yeah, I think that just about covers it. I think

02:03:52.630 --> 02:03:57.949
that comfortably covers it. So this year, the

02:03:57.949 --> 02:04:00.210
first pick, as I mentioned, is Tennessee Titans,

02:04:00.470 --> 02:04:03.630
then Cleveland Browns. The Jets are set to go,

02:04:03.670 --> 02:04:05.750
I think, seven for overall this year, which is...

02:04:06.109 --> 02:04:10.970
we've been higher but uh yeah the jets uh i think

02:04:10.970 --> 02:04:14.090
now's the time i'm i'm i'm moderately well this

02:04:14.090 --> 02:04:15.510
is the thing this is what the draft does and

02:04:15.510 --> 02:04:18.189
this is what uh football does particularly well

02:04:18.189 --> 02:04:20.310
the nfl does particularly well i am excited about

02:04:20.310 --> 02:04:22.510
next season the jets fan notwithstanding the

02:04:22.510 --> 02:04:24.310
fact i've been excited about the past few years

02:04:24.310 --> 02:04:28.649
it tricks you every time and it then it it builds

02:04:28.649 --> 02:04:31.550
you up for disappointment afterwards but um seven

02:04:31.550 --> 02:04:35.250
for overall pick Get ourselves a nice big lineman

02:04:35.250 --> 02:04:37.850
probably and go from there. See where it takes

02:04:37.850 --> 02:04:42.329
you. Yeah. I think that is the beauty of it.

02:04:42.430 --> 02:04:45.329
Everybody gets a start fresh. Everybody gets

02:04:45.329 --> 02:04:47.750
excited. Dirts have just picked up Justin Fields,

02:04:48.010 --> 02:04:52.350
the quarterback. QB. Yeah. He had a difficult

02:04:52.350 --> 02:04:54.710
first few seasons, but he also had a terrible

02:04:54.710 --> 02:04:57.760
O -line as well. Probably had a few things that

02:04:57.760 --> 02:04:59.739
weren't necessarily going for him at Chicago,

02:04:59.979 --> 02:05:02.199
so we'll see how he goes. Anyway, I'm digressing

02:05:02.199 --> 02:05:06.180
now. Well, you know, it's something to look forward

02:05:06.180 --> 02:05:09.420
to. And do you know where we can see it? Yeah,

02:05:09.420 --> 02:05:12.939
so if you're in the UK, it will be on Sky Sports,

02:05:13.220 --> 02:05:17.439
Sky Sports NFL specifically. If you're in the

02:05:17.439 --> 02:05:19.199
United States, I'm going to assume it will be

02:05:19.199 --> 02:05:21.289
everywhere. I don't think I'll have to tell you

02:05:21.289 --> 02:05:23.189
where to watch it if you're over there. Also,

02:05:23.449 --> 02:05:27.210
I don't know. Everywhere. It is taking place,

02:05:27.350 --> 02:05:29.069
yeah. You will know who has been picked number

02:05:29.069 --> 02:05:32.569
one for sure. It's at Lambeau Field in Green

02:05:32.569 --> 02:05:35.470
Bay, Wisconsin from Thursday the 24th of April

02:05:35.470 --> 02:05:37.829
for the first round and later rounds Friday and

02:05:37.829 --> 02:05:41.750
Saturday up to the 26th of April. Nice. I can't

02:05:41.750 --> 02:05:46.069
wait. So, yeah. Well, that's the NFL draft. Yes.

02:05:46.449 --> 02:05:49.680
Yes, it is. comprehensively covered in just two

02:05:49.680 --> 02:05:51.680
hours yeah if you managed to stick that out with

02:05:51.680 --> 02:05:55.479
us um thank you yeah very well done um hopefully

02:05:55.479 --> 02:05:57.359
it was reasonably informative and would have

02:05:57.359 --> 02:05:59.699
i think we covered all bases yeah giving you

02:05:59.699 --> 02:06:01.060
an insight into stuff that perhaps you didn't

02:06:01.060 --> 02:06:04.079
know before um where are we where are we going

02:06:04.079 --> 02:06:06.539
where are we going the week after then next week

02:06:06.539 --> 02:06:10.119
where are we going next week so next week staying

02:06:10.119 --> 02:06:12.680
stateside we are staying well somewhat stateside

02:06:12.680 --> 02:06:14.220
actually we're gonna go we're kind of splitting

02:06:14.220 --> 02:06:17.399
our um Oh, no, wait. I'm getting ahead of myself.

02:06:17.520 --> 02:06:18.460
You are getting ahead of yourself. I am getting

02:06:18.460 --> 02:06:20.000
ahead of myself. We are definitely staying safe

02:06:20.000 --> 02:06:21.979
next week because I'm extremely excited by this

02:06:21.979 --> 02:06:25.000
one as well. I'm going to have to force myself

02:06:25.000 --> 02:06:28.340
to pronounce it properly as in the American way

02:06:28.340 --> 02:06:29.979
because I really want to say the Kentucky Derby.

02:06:30.100 --> 02:06:32.699
I believe it's the Kentucky Derby. So I'm going

02:06:32.699 --> 02:06:34.640
to have to pronounce it like that. The subtleties.

02:06:34.640 --> 02:06:36.640
I might be wrong, but that certainly seems to

02:06:36.640 --> 02:06:39.000
be how it's pronounced. The Kentucky Derby from

02:06:39.000 --> 02:06:42.020
Churchill Downs in Louisville, Kentucky, which

02:06:42.020 --> 02:06:45.680
is another horse race. A lot of history. A very

02:06:45.680 --> 02:06:48.899
famous horse race. Yes. On the 3rd of May. Cool.

02:06:49.159 --> 02:06:52.180
Can't wait. That should be fun. If you like horse

02:06:52.180 --> 02:06:54.739
racing or you liked our national episode, come

02:06:54.739 --> 02:07:00.020
back. Yeah. As many stories about the Derby as

02:07:00.020 --> 02:07:02.560
there is about the national. A lot of history,

02:07:02.659 --> 02:07:05.000
a lot of controversy, a lot of stolen horses,

02:07:05.159 --> 02:07:07.640
drugged horses, everything in between. So it'll

02:07:07.640 --> 02:07:10.300
be a good one. Yeah. Nice. Shall we leave it

02:07:10.300 --> 02:07:13.140
there? I think so. It's good having you over,

02:07:13.260 --> 02:07:15.180
Ben. Yeah, thanks. We're off to York City in

02:07:15.180 --> 02:07:17.420
a second, so. We are off to York City in a second.

02:07:17.479 --> 02:07:19.420
And I've enjoyed doing this podcast in person

02:07:19.420 --> 02:07:22.000
with a fat rascal from Betty's in York and a

02:07:22.000 --> 02:07:24.460
cup of tea. A very traditional English morning.

02:07:24.760 --> 02:07:26.460
Two cups of tea. Two cups of tea. Because it

02:07:26.460 --> 02:07:30.479
lasted so long. Anyway. Nice. If you stopped

02:07:30.479 --> 02:07:32.800
by us, thank you very much. And we'll see you

02:07:32.800 --> 02:07:36.140
next week in Kentucky. Yep. Bye -bye. Bye, guys.

02:07:39.920 --> 02:07:42.119
Once again, thank you for listening to the Sporting

02:07:42.119 --> 02:07:44.279
Almanac podcast. I appreciate it, especially

02:07:44.279 --> 02:07:47.100
this week as it was a very long episode. If you

02:07:47.100 --> 02:07:49.000
enjoyed it, give us a like, a subscribe or a

02:07:49.000 --> 02:07:50.619
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02:07:50.739 --> 02:07:53.119
More importantly, please tell your friends. There's

02:07:53.119 --> 02:07:55.220
honestly no better advertising than word of mouth.

02:07:55.460 --> 02:07:57.760
Our theme tune is Oh Yeah by Harmonia Productions.

02:07:57.859 --> 02:08:00.239
You can find us on Blue Sky at at the Sporting

02:08:00.239 --> 02:08:02.340
Almanac or drop us an email at the Sporting Almanac

02:08:02.340 --> 02:08:04.920
podcast at gmail .com. Good luck to everyone

02:08:04.920 --> 02:08:06.899
running the London Marathon this weekend. I'll

02:08:06.899 --> 02:08:08.720
be there cheering you on. We'll be back next

02:08:08.720 --> 02:08:11.640
week. And until then, stay curious. Sport is

02:08:11.640 --> 02:08:14.000
nothing without the stories that make it. Goodbye.