WEBVTT

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fought in the enchanting forests of augusta national

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park georgia in the united states it's played

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in picture -perfect settings driving up magnolia

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lane you're met by a grand old clubhouse which

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is the gateway to golfing heaven they say it's

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perfect they say it's where god himself hangs

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out it could be the garden of eden the fairways

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are impeccable the surroundings are idyllic the

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trees and flowers as rare as they are stunning

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it oozes class the breeze whispers the tales

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of legends into your ear the crowd's cheers echo

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through the trees it has history at every turn

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Mark Twain is said to have described golf as

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a good walk spoiled, but he died before Augusta

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National Golf Club was formed. He doesn't know

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what he's missed. The best contends with the

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best on one of the hardest golf courses in the

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world. If you win it, you really have earned

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the right to be considered one of the masters

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of the game. This is the Sporting Almanac. Hi

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Ben. Hi Jack. How are you? Yeah, I'm alright,

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thanks mate. How are you? Yeah, not too bad.

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We're just recording this just after the running

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of the Grand National. It was won by Nick Rocket

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at 33 -1, which incredibly, I did actually bet

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on him this year. I didn't. Well, you know, at

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least one of us knows what they're doing. Completely

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not just random luck. unfortunately yeah it's

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another race not without controversy um there's

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a couple of uh horses one horse pulled up one

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horse fell and both horses made their way to

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the horse ambulance which i only discovered today

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was a thing um a good thing uh yes a very good

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thing both made it into the ambulance on their

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feet so fingers crossed and there'll be no lasting

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damage from that but across the meet there has

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been horse deaths again and rachel blackmore

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who we mentioned in the last episode had a bad

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fall On the first day of the meet, her horse

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unfortunately lost its life and she had to be

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taken away for checks as well. So just another

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reminder, it is a dangerous sport and this year

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is no exception. Thanks for getting us off to

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such a positive, happy start, Jack. It's all

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uphill from here. The race itself though, the

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Mullins National. The Mullins National, yeah,

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absolutely. First, second and third, all trained

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by Willie Mullins. And I think fifth as well.

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Incredible. And his son was riding the winner.

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Yeah, and his son was riding the winner, Patrick

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Mullins, as an amateur. I was just going to say,

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before we get on to this week's episode, anything

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else going on this week that we should cover

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before we start? There's a couple of things.

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It's not the busiest weekend of sport ever. The

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Women's Six Nations continues this weekend. Round

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three of that is coming up this weekend. Go on

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the Red Roses. Go on the Red Roses, indeed. Anything

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else, Ben? Bahrain Grand Prix? Ah, the Bahrain

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Grand Prix, yes. Round four of this year's season?

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Round four already, yeah. Coming thick and fast.

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Coming out of episode one, there is one or two

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things I think we should mention because... I

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don't know if you're aware of this, Ben, but

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we made one or two small errors in the first

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episode. We mentioned a few times it was the

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176th running of the Grand National, when in

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fact it was the 177th running. Ah, there we are.

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Don't know if you know that. Can't do maths.

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We've corrected ourselves now, and it's my job

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to fact check, so I hold my hands up and apologise

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for that. In addition... Unfortunately, as good

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a story as it was, Easter Hero was not the runner

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-up in the 1928 National. He took out the entire

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group, somewhere between 20 and 35 other runners

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and also himself. But one of the other horses

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did fall, get up again and finish. That was Billy

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Barton, who was an American horse, I believe,

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ridden by Tommy Cullinan. So there you go. Oh,

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nice. We have corrected ourselves and we are

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back in the game. So you already introduced it,

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but do you want to go again? Where are we this

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week, Ben? We're at the Masters this week, Jack.

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Oh, I can't wait. It's the best. It is the best

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tournament in golf. It is the best setting in

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golf. I am going to Georgia. I don't know if

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you know this. I think I'm going to Georgia later

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this year. I'm certainly going to the Deep South

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or the South generally. So I don't know if I'll

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have time or... the um credits with the people

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i'm traveling with to uh pop in there and more

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than that i don't actually know if they allow

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guests um unless you remember but uh i'm sure

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you're swinging by and have a look from the outside

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um if i if i get the chance but it's a big state

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in a big country so might not get the opportunity

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that would be unreal though even just to have

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a look around a little tour even get thrown out

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If I sneak in, that would be an absolute honor.

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Anyway, would you like to tell us about the Masters

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Tournament and about Augusta National? Yes, I

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would be very happy to. I know that you probably

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know some of this already, but for those who

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are less familiar with either the game of golf

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or the tournament itself, it was founded by the

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amateur golf champion, Bobby Jones, and an investment

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banker, Clifford Roberts. And they set up the

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Augusta National Golf Club, which is the host,

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essentially, to the Masters. And the tournament

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is pretty unique in that it's the only major

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tournament conducted by a private club rather

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than a national golfing organization like the

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PGA. And it's been held since 1934. And it's

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been played every single year except 1943 because

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of World War II. Good excuse. 1944. World War

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II, good excuse. 1945, World War II, good excuse.

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Very solid excuses. But it did prevail during

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COVID. It was delayed and it was played at the

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end of the year outside of its usual calendar

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slot. At the back end of the year, it actually

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was the last major in 2020. But it was played.

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But yeah, I mean, the purse back in 1934, I think

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the winner earned... $1 ,500, and now it's $3

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.6 million. So it's done okay. And it was originally

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called the Augusta National Invitation Tournament.

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And this is quite a fun story, actually. There

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was a debate whether to call it the Masters or

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the Augusta National Invitation Tournament, which

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really rolls off the tongue. Bobby Jones thought

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it was a bit presumptuous to call it the Masters.

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But the press got wind of it and they ran a story

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referring to it as the Masters and it obviously

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stuck and has henceforth been known. But it was

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officially titled the Masters in 1939, I think.

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So there were a couple of iterations of the tournament

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under its original name. But yeah, I mean, the

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Masters is the Masters. And there's a lot that

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we can talk about on this subject. Yeah, it's

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the first of golf's four major championships

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and the only one that's played at the same venue.

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Possibly the most iconic sporting venue in the

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game of golf. Oh, that's debatable. Apart from...

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Scottish people disagreeing with you there. Exactly.

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Well, you've pre -empted me, mate, other than

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St Andrews, probably. So, yeah. Which I have

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been to. Not played at, but I've been to. I'm

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about to say something, which anyone who is interested

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in golf who ends up listening to this will...

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be astonished by and perhaps dislike me for but

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I won free tickets to the 150th Open which was

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at St Andrews where Tiger was playing and I couldn't

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find anyone to go with me so I handed them back

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To be fair that's as much on me as it is on you

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You presumably invited me to that and I wasn't

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able to go, I imagine. I did. And you turned

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me down. So it's a group effort there. Not to

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be repeated. Yes. Well, I mean, I certainly wouldn't

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be turning down free tickets to the Masters if

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I ever got them. So lesson learned. I'd go on

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my own if necessary. You and me both. Yeah, exactly.

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Well, back to the tournament. 85 to 100 participants.

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Invitational only, which is a really interesting

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aspect of this tournament, is an official money

00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:30.860
event on the PGA Tour, European Tour, I think

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Japanese Golf Tour as well, maybe. I don't know

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what actually its official title is, but the

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Asia Circuit. And yeah, the invitational criteria

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is complex, but it essentially ensures that all

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the masters, weirdly, turn up at this tournament

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all the all the best players so um all prior

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champions get a lifetime invite all major winners

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from the previous season all winners on the pga

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tour as long as they carry some sufficient ranking

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points or something uh the current olympic gold

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medalist which i guess is a new addition to the

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criteria that's interesting yeah the top 50 in

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the world the top 30 money winners in the previous

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pga tour which is called the fedex cup for those

00:10:13.470 --> 00:10:17.230
that aren't informed um the top 12 from the last

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tournament and they also have a very long -standing

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amateur history and invite basically all of the

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um best amateurs from around the world uh through

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series of amateur tournaments uh and yeah the

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top four players from the previous us open uh

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open and pga championship um so yeah like a pretty

00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:43.000
a pretty interesting set of criteria there is

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one other um way in which you can be invited

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and that is through um special invitations which

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we'll get onto in a minute Yeah, it's worth pointing

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out with that, obviously a lot of people will

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fall under multiple criteria there. So obviously

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if you have won a major title, you are also probably

00:11:00.009 --> 00:11:05.110
in the top 30 of the rankings. Exactly. And they

00:11:05.110 --> 00:11:08.669
do, people hit all the, the top 50 in the world

00:11:08.669 --> 00:11:12.330
basically hit all the criteria normally. So it's

00:11:12.330 --> 00:11:15.450
just the people outside of that. But yeah, special

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invitations are a fun thing. They are traditionally

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predominantly used to invite foreign players

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who don't meet the criteria for an invite. And

00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:27.659
it's at the discretion of the club. And the first

00:11:27.659 --> 00:11:32.120
to receive such an invitation was Gary Player.

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He was the first foreign winner of the Masters

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as well, being from South Africa, and a three

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-time winner. Sorry, he wasn't the first to receive

00:11:39.779 --> 00:11:43.659
it. That's wrong. He wrote to the Masters asking.

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This is the reason why it's a fun story. Because

00:11:46.350 --> 00:11:48.570
he's the first foreign winner and he got into

00:11:48.570 --> 00:11:51.929
his first Masters via a special invitation. That's

00:11:51.929 --> 00:11:54.970
what I meant to say. Before he went on to win

00:11:54.970 --> 00:11:58.250
three Masters. And he wrote to them requesting

00:11:58.250 --> 00:12:00.970
a special invite. And when he was granted one,

00:12:01.009 --> 00:12:03.169
he essentially crowdfunded his way to the tournament,

00:12:03.309 --> 00:12:07.190
which I think is kind of sweet given the prestige

00:12:07.190 --> 00:12:12.190
and the success that he then went on to earn.

00:12:13.389 --> 00:12:15.110
Getting all the way from South Africa to Georgia

00:12:15.110 --> 00:12:18.450
in the United States. Must have been a mean feat

00:12:18.450 --> 00:12:21.470
back in the day. Back in the early 1960s. No,

00:12:21.529 --> 00:12:24.669
probably not. But yeah, he's not the only person

00:12:24.669 --> 00:12:28.590
of note to have received a special invitation.

00:12:29.090 --> 00:12:32.429
The first black player to receive a special invitation

00:12:32.429 --> 00:12:36.309
was a chap called Lee Elder, who was given one

00:12:36.309 --> 00:12:39.850
in 1975, which is weirdly the same year that

00:12:39.850 --> 00:12:44.360
Tiger Woods was born. And people and politicians

00:12:44.360 --> 00:12:46.539
have been lobbying for a couple of years for

00:12:46.539 --> 00:12:48.240
Elder to receive a special invite because he

00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:51.740
was a decent player in his own right. But the

00:12:51.740 --> 00:12:54.980
club resisted, not on the basis that they were

00:12:54.980 --> 00:12:59.399
obviously racist in the 1970s, but on the basis

00:12:59.399 --> 00:13:04.080
that, as they said at least. If black players

00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:06.340
were good enough, then they could qualify in

00:13:06.340 --> 00:13:10.500
their own right. Convenient reasoning. Well,

00:13:10.659 --> 00:13:12.820
you know, weirdly not a barrier to inviting white

00:13:12.820 --> 00:13:15.860
players from South Africa who had also not qualified

00:13:15.860 --> 00:13:21.720
and met the criteria. So, yeah, read into that

00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:24.080
where you will. There's an inference there. But

00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:27.879
Elder did obviously get his invite in 75 and

00:13:27.879 --> 00:13:32.220
he received an awful lot of abuse. Quite an enormous

00:13:32.220 --> 00:13:35.019
amount of hate mail, I think. And he even rented

00:13:35.019 --> 00:13:37.799
two houses in the tournament week and moved between

00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:40.740
them so that people couldn't track his movements

00:13:40.740 --> 00:13:44.279
easily. And he didn't eat alone. He would always

00:13:44.279 --> 00:13:47.000
have someone with him. And he would eventually

00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:50.580
go on to miss the cut. But obviously, his participation

00:13:50.580 --> 00:13:54.940
in the 1975 edition of the tournament was infinitely

00:13:54.940 --> 00:13:58.700
more important than his scorecard. But yeah,

00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:02.320
he... You know, it's the start of something.

00:14:02.379 --> 00:14:05.019
And he would return two more times and earn two

00:14:05.019 --> 00:14:07.740
top 25 finishes. And he also finished his career

00:14:07.740 --> 00:14:10.500
with four PGA Tour wins and a Ryder Cup in 79.

00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:14.740
Yeah. And he'd be the first black player as well

00:14:14.740 --> 00:14:17.639
to hit the honorary tee shot in 2021 alongside

00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:23.559
one Jack Nicklaus. Jack Nicklaus and Gary Player

00:14:23.559 --> 00:14:29.360
himself. Okay. Yeah. I find it incredible that

00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:33.759
that was 1975. Obviously, America has a very

00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:39.860
long history of segregation, particularly in

00:14:39.860 --> 00:14:42.080
the South, particularly in the likes of Alabama

00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:44.639
and Georgia, Georgia being where this tournament

00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:49.500
takes place. But even so, 1975 is a full decade

00:14:49.500 --> 00:14:54.080
after the civil rights movement. It goes to show

00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:58.179
the... white conservative nature of golf which

00:14:58.179 --> 00:15:00.659
does persist to a certain extent to this day

00:15:00.659 --> 00:15:04.299
although obviously has been ruptured somewhat

00:15:04.299 --> 00:15:07.759
by certain individuals and their success one

00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:10.940
in particular in the late 90s who i believe we

00:15:10.940 --> 00:15:12.679
will probably mention once or twice in this episode

00:15:12.679 --> 00:15:16.120
he's already mentioned once mr tiger woods yeah

00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:18.399
well i mean if you think that's astonishing pal

00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:22.519
um elders participation came 15 years before

00:15:22.519 --> 00:15:25.840
augusta admitted the first black member so and

00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:29.919
that was that was a ron townsend in 1990 um and

00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:32.460
i didn't know about this but apparently um there

00:15:32.460 --> 00:15:35.139
was a controversy the shoal creek controversy

00:15:35.139 --> 00:15:37.940
in the lead up to the pga championships in 1990

00:15:37.940 --> 00:15:41.080
shoal creek being a club in alabama designed

00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:44.259
by jack nicholas that didn't have any black members

00:15:44.259 --> 00:15:47.740
and heavily resisted them and were being panned

00:15:47.740 --> 00:15:49.700
in the media in the lead -up to the tournament

00:15:49.700 --> 00:15:53.059
that they were hosting. And the PGA nearly removed

00:15:53.059 --> 00:15:59.000
them as the host club for the PGA Championship.

00:15:59.379 --> 00:16:03.059
But, as I suspect is always the case with tournaments

00:16:03.059 --> 00:16:06.559
that bring in quite a lot of money, there was

00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:09.659
a lot of lobbying going on and a compromise was

00:16:09.659 --> 00:16:13.370
eventually reached. Louis J. Willey was invited

00:16:13.370 --> 00:16:16.389
by the Mayor of Birmingham to become an honorary

00:16:16.389 --> 00:16:23.190
member. Again, that's incredible. In 1990. Then

00:16:23.190 --> 00:16:25.549
again, I guess we're... Let's not get political.

00:16:27.330 --> 00:16:30.870
Let's move on. Let's not talk about what's happening

00:16:30.870 --> 00:16:34.330
in America right now. Anyway, you were saying?

00:16:35.350 --> 00:16:39.309
Well, all I was saying is that... Four years

00:16:39.309 --> 00:16:42.809
later, a Tiger Woods, a certain Tiger Woods,

00:16:42.950 --> 00:16:48.169
would win the 1994 individual collegiate title

00:16:48.169 --> 00:16:51.330
at the same course. And the position had not

00:16:51.330 --> 00:16:53.429
changed. There was still only one black member

00:16:53.429 --> 00:16:56.789
of the club at that time. That's incredible.

00:16:57.730 --> 00:17:01.070
In 1994. But yeah, I mean, that's pretty much

00:17:01.070 --> 00:17:03.450
the tournament. I mean, it's, I'm sorry, like

00:17:03.450 --> 00:17:05.230
a little couple of tangents on special invites,

00:17:05.349 --> 00:17:08.069
but it's... Played across four rounds, traditional

00:17:08.069 --> 00:17:10.529
format. Lose half the field after two rounds.

00:17:11.849 --> 00:17:14.109
Well, top 50, technically speaking, including

00:17:14.109 --> 00:17:19.009
ties. And then you play for the title over the

00:17:19.009 --> 00:17:20.970
course of the final two rounds. The final round

00:17:20.970 --> 00:17:23.390
obviously traditionally being on a Sunday. And

00:17:23.390 --> 00:17:26.089
if there's a tie, you have a sudden death playoff

00:17:26.089 --> 00:17:27.950
across the 18th and the 10th until there's a

00:17:27.950 --> 00:17:32.049
winner. Although it's never gone beyond the second

00:17:32.049 --> 00:17:35.710
playoff hole. yeah it used to be full rounds

00:17:35.710 --> 00:17:38.970
for um the playoff and i believe i might be wrong

00:17:38.970 --> 00:17:41.369
i'm saying that it went to multiple full rounds

00:17:41.369 --> 00:17:43.789
on some occasions presumably when full rounds

00:17:43.789 --> 00:17:47.769
were drawn or tied i should say um which is an

00:17:47.769 --> 00:17:51.029
incredible amount of playoff golf uh to play

00:17:51.029 --> 00:17:53.289
i think the sudden death version they have now

00:17:53.289 --> 00:17:56.950
is excellent and it results in brilliant finishes

00:17:56.950 --> 00:18:00.509
like if you recall 2012 being a particularly

00:18:00.509 --> 00:18:04.430
good finish where a certain Bubba Watson drove

00:18:04.430 --> 00:18:09.450
out of the pine with a lot of pull on it, turned

00:18:09.450 --> 00:18:12.509
about 90 degrees and left it about 10 feet from

00:18:12.509 --> 00:18:16.910
the hole to win that playoff, which is, in my

00:18:16.910 --> 00:18:19.069
opinion, and this is notwithstanding Tiger Woods

00:18:19.069 --> 00:18:22.410
chipping in 2005, the best shot I've ever seen

00:18:22.410 --> 00:18:24.869
in Masters history. I don't know if you're aware

00:18:24.869 --> 00:18:27.210
of the one I'm referring to, but it is an incredible

00:18:27.210 --> 00:18:30.740
shot. Bubba shot. Bubba shot. Yeah, I'm very

00:18:30.740 --> 00:18:33.000
familiar with Bubba's shot. It's just incredible.

00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:35.859
It is one of the most iconic shots, I think,

00:18:35.859 --> 00:18:39.140
in the tournament's history, as you say. And

00:18:39.140 --> 00:18:45.000
in a clutch moment as well. Yes. Which is, you

00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:47.039
know, the way these things happen, always enter

00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:50.859
folklore when there's heaps of pressure. Indeed.

00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:57.589
So that's 2012 is regarded as... one of the the

00:18:57.589 --> 00:18:59.430
great tournaments i don't know if you've got

00:18:59.430 --> 00:19:02.250
any more of an introduction to talk about at

00:19:02.250 --> 00:19:05.009
this point but um we could go on to talk about

00:19:05.009 --> 00:19:08.289
the great tournaments in the past well we've

00:19:08.289 --> 00:19:09.650
got yeah we could talk about the tournaments

00:19:09.650 --> 00:19:12.289
we can talk about the traditions uh whichever

00:19:12.289 --> 00:19:14.190
you whichever way around you want to do it mate

00:19:14.190 --> 00:19:17.369
i'll defer you know i think i'll give you a voice

00:19:17.369 --> 00:19:19.670
arrest you've introduced this beautifully um

00:19:19.670 --> 00:19:23.170
but yes so uh there's a few tournaments to stand

00:19:23.170 --> 00:19:26.910
out historically as being the greatest amongst

00:19:26.910 --> 00:19:31.710
obviously some great tournaments past 1960 Arnold

00:19:31.710 --> 00:19:35.029
Palmer the great Arnold Palmer who probably just

00:19:35.029 --> 00:19:37.369
now really misses out on the goat conversation

00:19:37.369 --> 00:19:40.430
that may or may not be coming later but in terms

00:19:40.430 --> 00:19:43.549
of the Masters he has the third highest number

00:19:43.549 --> 00:19:48.769
of wins overall with four his best being 1960

00:19:48.769 --> 00:19:53.289
where he pulled out clutch birdies on 17 and

00:19:53.289 --> 00:19:56.789
18 grab his second win of four in the masters

00:19:56.789 --> 00:20:01.789
1997 um very notable for the arrival of a certain

00:20:01.789 --> 00:20:04.609
tiger woods on the scene winning his first major

00:20:04.609 --> 00:20:08.569
by 12 shots which is still a record and with

00:20:08.569 --> 00:20:11.130
the lowest score to par of minus 18 which is

00:20:11.130 --> 00:20:14.970
still a record i believe 2004 phil mickelson

00:20:14.970 --> 00:20:17.950
um getting his first major at the age of i think

00:20:17.950 --> 00:20:21.089
he's about 34 at that point he was uh renowned

00:20:21.089 --> 00:20:22.509
as being one of the best players who have never

00:20:22.509 --> 00:20:25.410
won one um but uh yeah pulled out of the bag

00:20:25.410 --> 00:20:29.410
and famously leapt in the air in joy at the end

00:20:29.410 --> 00:20:32.589
of that mickelson's uh back story is so good

00:20:32.589 --> 00:20:35.269
man like the how long he had to wait for one

00:20:35.269 --> 00:20:38.990
yeah and then to go and get it yes and then same

00:20:38.990 --> 00:20:41.789
and then to uh yeah so to win a few over the

00:20:41.789 --> 00:20:44.569
next few years but then to go a few more years

00:20:44.569 --> 00:20:46.329
without winning one and then win one i think

00:20:46.329 --> 00:20:48.650
he's he he might not be the oldest man to ever

00:20:48.650 --> 00:20:51.539
win one at 50. or he might be, but he managed

00:20:51.539 --> 00:20:56.700
to win one at 50. Who's this, sorry? Phil Mickelson.

00:20:56.920 --> 00:20:59.140
Not a Masters, I should say. Oh, okay, yeah.

00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:00.519
I was going to say, Nicholas has got the record

00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:03.740
at the Masters. He won one when he was 46. Yes,

00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:06.140
well, I'll come to that shortly. No, Mickelson

00:21:06.140 --> 00:21:09.720
won, I want to say, the PGA Championship when

00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:14.880
he was 50, which is obviously impressive. 2005,

00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:18.630
the legend, probably... other than the one I

00:21:18.630 --> 00:21:21.369
mentioned, Bubba Watson, the greatest shot in

00:21:21.369 --> 00:21:23.750
Masters history where Tiger chipped in at the

00:21:23.750 --> 00:21:29.150
16th. If you've seen any clip from a golf tournament

00:21:29.150 --> 00:21:31.069
ever, you've probably seen this one. This is

00:21:31.069 --> 00:21:34.089
one where he chips in from just outside the green.

00:21:34.869 --> 00:21:37.369
He lands it on the top of the green, takes about

00:21:37.369 --> 00:21:39.950
a 90 -degree turn, rolls slowly towards the cup,

00:21:40.109 --> 00:21:44.430
stops right on the edge of the cup, stays, stays,

00:21:44.710 --> 00:21:49.930
stays, and then drops in. And you see the camera

00:21:49.930 --> 00:21:53.130
vibrating from the chair that goes up from the

00:21:53.130 --> 00:21:56.089
crowd. And it is obviously Tiger Fist Pump. It's

00:21:56.089 --> 00:22:01.349
iconic. And that was at a point where he was

00:22:01.349 --> 00:22:04.450
chasing and he got back into the mix and ended

00:22:04.450 --> 00:22:07.049
up forcing a playoff and winning the playoff.

00:22:07.430 --> 00:22:13.589
And the chap he was up against in that. Let me

00:22:13.589 --> 00:22:15.930
just get the information here. Oh, this is the

00:22:15.930 --> 00:22:18.940
unreal. Quote. So he beat Chris DeMarco in the

00:22:18.940 --> 00:22:21.299
playoff that day. Chris DeMarco said, I went

00:22:21.299 --> 00:22:23.859
out and shot 68 around here on Sunday, which

00:22:23.859 --> 00:22:25.819
is usually a very good round, and 12 under is

00:22:25.819 --> 00:22:27.900
usually good enough to win. It's just that I

00:22:27.900 --> 00:22:30.700
was playing against Tiger Woods. Yeah, it's so

00:22:30.700 --> 00:22:33.420
good. Sums it up, really. And it's like that

00:22:33.420 --> 00:22:35.400
chip as well. Obviously, everyone would have

00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:36.920
seen that chip, or anyone who's interested in

00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:39.400
golf would have seen that chip. It's almost as

00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:43.460
if it's willed in by the crowd. It genuinely

00:22:43.460 --> 00:22:47.490
seems to stop. on like the lip of the cup and

00:22:47.490 --> 00:22:51.289
then and then just go again i i it's very hard

00:22:51.289 --> 00:22:54.210
to uh do it justice just like you know verbally

00:22:54.210 --> 00:22:57.630
but um just if anyone hasn't seen it's youtube

00:22:57.630 --> 00:23:01.309
it's insane i was gonna say if you haven't seen

00:23:01.309 --> 00:23:05.529
it just watch it and look just look at how much

00:23:05.529 --> 00:23:08.029
the camera shakes from the crouching it's one

00:23:08.029 --> 00:23:10.329
of the things i love most about sport about watching

00:23:10.329 --> 00:23:13.940
sport on tv when something happens which there's

00:23:13.940 --> 00:23:16.140
so much joy and so much noise created you can

00:23:16.140 --> 00:23:19.779
see it physically i remember it um david beckham

00:23:19.779 --> 00:23:22.059
when he scored the free kick against greece watch

00:23:22.059 --> 00:23:23.720
his celebration after that and you can see it

00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:26.380
there and for anyone who doesn't know going off

00:23:26.380 --> 00:23:28.180
topic a little bit but that sealed england's

00:23:28.180 --> 00:23:30.539
qualification for the world cup when in a game

00:23:30.539 --> 00:23:33.299
we did not deserve to get anything out of whatsoever

00:23:33.299 --> 00:23:36.240
um but it happens in in tigers chip as well and

00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:38.880
it's just just an outpouring of joy and just

00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:42.460
how lucky you must feel to be In that situation,

00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:44.559
watching that live. And the commentators, mate.

00:23:44.619 --> 00:23:46.500
Incredible. They just lose their partiality.

00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:52.599
Or impartiality, rather. Become partial. Yeah,

00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:54.759
I love that. And why not? Because they love sport.

00:23:55.059 --> 00:23:57.180
Yeah, exactly. Sport is the winner in that situation.

00:23:57.579 --> 00:23:59.519
Just cuts through it all, doesn't it? It's unreal.

00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:06.339
Yeah, speaking of legendary commentary. Arguably

00:24:06.339 --> 00:24:09.769
the greatest. Masters tournament of all time

00:24:09.769 --> 00:24:11.869
and you already briefly mentioned this. 1986.

00:24:12.509 --> 00:24:16.069
Jack Nicklaus was 46 years old. He had already

00:24:16.069 --> 00:24:19.289
won five Masters tournaments but hadn't won one

00:24:19.289 --> 00:24:23.490
for a fair few years. He went into the round

00:24:23.490 --> 00:24:28.269
seven shots behind. He went into the last five

00:24:28.269 --> 00:24:31.549
holes still four shots behind and then he rattled

00:24:31.549 --> 00:24:34.589
off an eagle at 15, a birdie at 16, a birdie

00:24:34.589 --> 00:24:39.400
at 17. So the iconic moment came on the 17th,

00:24:39.420 --> 00:24:43.619
where he had a putt from 10 feet or so. And he

00:24:43.619 --> 00:24:46.859
nailed it and unforgettably raised his putter

00:24:46.859 --> 00:24:49.160
in the air in celebration. And the commentator

00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:52.259
came out and said, maybe, yes, sir, as it went

00:24:52.259 --> 00:24:56.680
in. One of the most famous calls in golf history.

00:24:56.779 --> 00:24:59.500
And it's just a wonderful thing. It's mythical

00:24:59.500 --> 00:25:04.059
almost at this point, as also 2019 was, as you

00:25:04.059 --> 00:25:07.680
may recall. For similar reasons, a past champion,

00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:10.259
a legend of the sport, someone who'd won the

00:25:10.259 --> 00:25:13.599
Masters title four times before. At an older

00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:16.480
age, 43 years old, Tiger Woods sealing it in

00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:19.759
2019. Fist pump and the noise there as well and

00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:23.380
him celebrating with his family. Absolutely iconic.

00:25:23.740 --> 00:25:26.039
Mate, these guys write their own scripts. They

00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:29.119
genuinely do. Golf is like psychological warfare

00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:32.819
against yourself. It is. It's a very good way

00:25:32.819 --> 00:25:35.019
of describing it. I don't know if anyone here,

00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:38.079
anyone listening has ever played golf, but your

00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:41.140
biggest opponent, almost your only opponent is

00:25:41.140 --> 00:25:43.220
yourself. I mean, if you're playing against,

00:25:43.480 --> 00:25:46.299
if you're playing to a handicap. You should have

00:25:46.299 --> 00:25:48.519
had a handicap set up so everyone is at an even

00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:50.339
level. You're essentially just playing against

00:25:50.339 --> 00:25:53.380
yourself and your own focus and your own calmness

00:25:53.380 --> 00:25:55.980
and your own judgment in a situation. I was saying

00:25:55.980 --> 00:25:59.740
to my girlfriend earlier, Jack, I was sort of

00:25:59.740 --> 00:26:01.500
telling her about what we were doing for this

00:26:01.500 --> 00:26:06.240
episode. You can't beat someone at golf. You

00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:08.750
can only shoot your best round. and if it just

00:26:08.750 --> 00:26:10.569
happens to be better than someone else's then

00:26:10.569 --> 00:26:12.289
you end up winning and that's like that's the

00:26:12.289 --> 00:26:14.549
way it is like you you can obviously like that

00:26:14.549 --> 00:26:16.549
i'm oversimplifying slightly because you can

00:26:16.549 --> 00:26:18.890
you can psych each other out and you can get

00:26:18.890 --> 00:26:21.470
in your own head someone can do something and

00:26:21.470 --> 00:26:22.990
put you under pressure and that sort of thing

00:26:22.990 --> 00:26:24.970
so there is that dynamic to it obviously it's

00:26:24.970 --> 00:26:27.529
not but you might you might be you know four

00:26:27.529 --> 00:26:29.349
or five holes away from your closest opponent

00:26:29.349 --> 00:26:31.410
you might not even see what they're doing so

00:26:31.410 --> 00:26:34.470
yeah i think it's unique in that sense that you're

00:26:34.470 --> 00:26:36.769
effectively playing yourself yeah i mean you

00:26:36.769 --> 00:26:39.960
if you're Not in the same group. So for anyone

00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:42.559
who doesn't know, in the final two rounds of

00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:45.420
major tournaments, once the cut has happened,

00:26:45.500 --> 00:26:48.539
you get sorted into groups based on where you

00:26:48.539 --> 00:26:50.900
are in the standings. Essentially, so the top

00:26:50.900 --> 00:26:52.519
three in the standings will be together, then

00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:54.660
the next three will be together, and so on and

00:26:54.660 --> 00:26:57.299
so forth. The idea being that it makes it more

00:26:57.299 --> 00:26:59.180
likely that the last putt of the day is the winning

00:26:59.180 --> 00:27:02.019
putt, which is obviously what a TV audience wants

00:27:02.019 --> 00:27:04.240
to see, what directors want to see, and what

00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:07.930
anyone watching at the course wants to see. but

00:27:07.930 --> 00:27:10.569
it can be the case that someone has a good round

00:27:10.569 --> 00:27:12.789
someone has a bad round you do end up in a situation

00:27:12.789 --> 00:27:15.190
where you are two or three holes away and you

00:27:15.190 --> 00:27:16.950
just you hear the crowd noise and you have to

00:27:16.950 --> 00:27:19.430
make judgments over it and it it must just be

00:27:19.430 --> 00:27:22.029
very psychological to block that out and to focus

00:27:22.029 --> 00:27:25.470
entirely on your own game as opposed to and and

00:27:25.470 --> 00:27:28.190
other than maybe you see scoreboards or you're

00:27:28.190 --> 00:27:29.869
getting results through or your caddies telling

00:27:29.869 --> 00:27:32.309
you or whatever you don't know in that moment

00:27:32.309 --> 00:27:34.509
you're lining up a shot what the situation is

00:27:34.509 --> 00:27:37.279
you just have to focus on your own game and it

00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:42.480
is absolutely unique in that regard. I don't

00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:44.160
know why you just jogged my memory there, mate,

00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:47.039
but I think it's because of the pairings. One

00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:49.420
interesting quirk about the Masters is the US

00:27:49.420 --> 00:27:52.960
amateur qualifies, the US amateur champion qualifies,

00:27:53.059 --> 00:27:56.200
and every single year they are paired with the

00:27:56.200 --> 00:28:01.319
returning champion for the first two rounds,

00:28:01.420 --> 00:28:05.619
which is a nice little tradition. It's probably

00:28:05.619 --> 00:28:07.339
a nice tradition in that you can probably look

00:28:07.339 --> 00:28:09.759
back on it and a lot of the time the US amateur

00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:12.799
champion will be someone who later goes on to

00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:16.640
succeed in the game. So you probably end up seeing

00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:19.980
a 21 -year -old future major winner paired up

00:28:19.980 --> 00:28:25.359
with someone who is now in their 40s or 50s legend

00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:27.450
of the game. You probably have a lot of pairings

00:28:27.450 --> 00:28:29.009
like that when you look back. Very good. Very

00:28:29.009 --> 00:28:31.789
cool rule. And I know we've gone slightly off

00:28:31.789 --> 00:28:33.589
topic here, but you were waxing... Oh, we do.

00:28:33.950 --> 00:28:35.950
Yeah, I know. But you were waxing lyrical about

00:28:35.950 --> 00:28:40.529
Jack Nicklaus, and this is not the first time

00:28:40.529 --> 00:28:42.809
he's achieved something remarkable at Augusta.

00:28:43.250 --> 00:28:45.309
This is not quite as detailed, but it's just

00:28:45.309 --> 00:28:48.690
a nice little nod to how damn good he was. In

00:28:48.690 --> 00:28:52.730
66, one of his third title, I think it was, despite...

00:28:53.389 --> 00:28:56.369
four of his friends dying on the eve of the tournament

00:28:56.369 --> 00:28:58.890
in a plane crash on their way to watch him. He

00:28:58.890 --> 00:29:02.210
went on to win the tournament still. I can't

00:29:02.210 --> 00:29:04.390
tell you any more details of it. It's just a

00:29:04.390 --> 00:29:07.450
little nugget I came across when doing a little

00:29:07.450 --> 00:29:10.690
bit of reading for this. But yeah, pretty insane.

00:29:10.950 --> 00:29:12.789
So when we talk about psychological fortitude,

00:29:12.829 --> 00:29:14.829
not just playing yourself, but playing your demons,

00:29:14.950 --> 00:29:18.730
playing your emotions, coming through like that

00:29:18.730 --> 00:29:23.880
is insane. That's incredible. Yeah, I've got

00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:26.660
a couple of notes on that. Yeah, it was friends

00:29:26.660 --> 00:29:28.519
from his hometown, so like long -term friends,

00:29:28.579 --> 00:29:31.940
friends from his childhood, including the guy

00:29:31.940 --> 00:29:34.140
he basically learned to play the game with alongside

00:29:34.140 --> 00:29:37.240
a guy called Bob Barton were killed in a plane

00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:39.480
crash on their way to Augusta to watch him play.

00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:42.640
So, you know, his best friends in the entire

00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:45.660
world. One can only imagine what that feels like.

00:29:45.900 --> 00:29:47.799
Let's hope neither of us ever find out of whether

00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:51.539
this podcast might come to an abrupt end. Yeah,

00:29:51.539 --> 00:29:54.539
well, fingers crossed. That would be a bit of

00:29:54.539 --> 00:29:59.099
a bummer. But no, that's a remarkable story.

00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:04.180
So six titles across, what, like 25 years, 23

00:30:04.180 --> 00:30:09.039
years to be precise, I think. Yeah, he also set

00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:12.559
up a championship level golf tournament in his

00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:14.819
hometown to commemorate them called the Memorial

00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:18.299
Tournament as well. Oh, that's cool. Which is,

00:30:18.380 --> 00:30:20.819
I believe, still played to this day. Yeah, yeah.

00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:23.079
And it should be said, I mean, I think you might

00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:24.400
have already said it, actually, but Nicholas

00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:28.140
is the tournament's most successful player. Yes.

00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:32.319
Eldest winner. Most top tens. Yeah. With 22.

00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:36.859
Most cuts made. 37. So, you know, if you were

00:30:36.859 --> 00:30:39.480
to be discussing who is the greatest to play

00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:43.819
at Augusta, you wouldn't look much further than

00:30:43.819 --> 00:30:48.769
the Golden Bear, as he was known. But the wider

00:30:48.769 --> 00:30:53.410
debate is one perhaps still to come. Can I chuck

00:30:53.410 --> 00:30:55.289
a couple of other stats at you about the players

00:30:55.289 --> 00:30:58.329
and the competition itself? Literally always.

00:30:59.410 --> 00:31:02.430
You know I like. Let's start at the present day.

00:31:02.630 --> 00:31:05.710
Reigning champ, Scotty Scheffler. First winner,

00:31:05.930 --> 00:31:09.210
Horton Smith in 1934. I've already spoken about

00:31:09.210 --> 00:31:13.369
Jack. Tiger's the youngest winner. with a then

00:31:13.369 --> 00:31:16.329
-course record of 18 -under as a 21 -year -old

00:31:16.329 --> 00:31:17.970
in 1997. Of course, no, he was beaten, wasn't

00:31:17.970 --> 00:31:20.930
he? Yeah, very recently. Was it Scotty Scheffler?

00:31:20.930 --> 00:31:24.970
No, Scheffler's a current champ. Who, was it

00:31:24.970 --> 00:31:30.230
Dustin Johnson, maybe? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So,

00:31:30.349 --> 00:31:33.829
yeah, but still remarkable. And some more fun

00:31:33.829 --> 00:31:37.430
stats. Mike Weir, first left -hander to win the

00:31:37.430 --> 00:31:41.000
tournament in 2003. He's also the first Canadian.

00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:45.339
Yeah, exactly. And the aforementioned Gary Player

00:31:45.339 --> 00:31:48.400
has the most appearances with 52, which is quite

00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:52.599
insane. I don't know how you rack up 52 appearances

00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:57.279
at the Masters. That's crazy. I think in Gary

00:31:57.279 --> 00:31:59.779
Player's case, you do it by being nicknamed Mr.

00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:05.180
Fitness. That's great. Even into his 80s. Oh,

00:32:05.180 --> 00:32:09.950
really? Jeez. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, very, very fit

00:32:09.950 --> 00:32:13.950
man. But I mean, it's not all about the winners,

00:32:14.069 --> 00:32:15.950
though, Jack. And we should probably make this

00:32:15.950 --> 00:32:17.890
very clear. I mean, there's a lot that could

00:32:17.890 --> 00:32:19.849
be said. I think Spieth's had a nightmare there

00:32:19.849 --> 00:32:21.829
once. Obviously, we know Rory's had a nightmare

00:32:21.829 --> 00:32:25.049
there once going into the final round. But perhaps,

00:32:25.190 --> 00:32:28.690
well, not perhaps, the unluckiest man in Masters

00:32:28.690 --> 00:32:35.109
history is undoubtedly Greg Norman. He has come

00:32:35.109 --> 00:32:39.190
extremely close. quite a few times um he finished

00:32:39.190 --> 00:32:42.309
in the top five at the masters eight times but

00:32:42.309 --> 00:32:46.029
never won and that included 81 he was leading

00:32:46.029 --> 00:32:48.269
into the second i say i'm not saying that these

00:32:48.269 --> 00:32:50.009
were his top five finishes rather but these are

00:32:50.009 --> 00:32:52.789
some this is a snapshot of his fortunes at the

00:32:52.789 --> 00:32:56.130
at the tournament 81 he led in the second round

00:32:56.130 --> 00:33:00.319
but ended up finishing fourth in 1986 He birdied

00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:03.259
14 through 17 to tie Jack Nicklaus for the lead,

00:33:03.339 --> 00:33:05.400
but ended up pushing his approach on the 18th

00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:08.720
and bogeyed, handing it back to Nicklaus. 87,

00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:13.519
he lost in a playoff to Larry Mies, so forgive

00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:18.279
me, Larry, if this ever reaches your ears. But

00:33:18.279 --> 00:33:20.799
he was, by the way, Larry being the first Augusta

00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:22.299
native to ever win the tournament, just a little

00:33:22.299 --> 00:33:25.410
sidestep there. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, yeah.

00:33:25.549 --> 00:33:27.650
But he lost the playoff to Larry because Larry

00:33:27.650 --> 00:33:33.089
chipped him from 45 yards. Yeah, that'll do it.

00:33:33.190 --> 00:33:35.529
If you ever thought that you were ever going

00:33:35.529 --> 00:33:38.029
to win it, that would probably drain whatever

00:33:38.029 --> 00:33:41.470
optimism you had from you. And then in 96 is

00:33:41.470 --> 00:33:43.690
the really famous one, which everyone probably

00:33:43.690 --> 00:33:47.009
remembers. I remember this. This is probably

00:33:47.009 --> 00:33:49.509
the first time I ever remember a golf tournament

00:33:49.509 --> 00:33:52.069
because it was an Englishman who won it, Nick

00:33:52.069 --> 00:33:56.740
Felder. and um my yeah grandparents were very

00:33:56.740 --> 00:33:59.319
into golf and i do i remember this being at the

00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:02.359
very least mentioned on tv perhaps um this being

00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:06.160
a thing but yeah he was um well up at the end

00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:09.280
of the six up six up at the end of the third

00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:13.500
round oh my word i found only one by five i know

00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:19.039
That's an implosion. It's an implosion. But they

00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:23.599
can do that too. When it's happened before. Yeah.

00:34:24.219 --> 00:34:26.780
As you say, ultimately it's a game against yourself.

00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:29.579
Right. But this is the thing that's so interesting

00:34:29.579 --> 00:34:32.699
about Norman. It sounds like we're going in on

00:34:32.699 --> 00:34:36.139
him here. But he kept coming back. He kept coming

00:34:36.139 --> 00:34:38.019
back for more. So the geezer had psychological

00:34:38.019 --> 00:34:40.690
fortitude. But obviously it just wasn't quite

00:34:40.690 --> 00:34:43.510
enough because it happened again in 98. So, you

00:34:43.510 --> 00:34:46.050
know, sorry, Greg. But he's leading on the back

00:34:46.050 --> 00:34:49.170
nine in the final round, but again, faded to

00:34:49.170 --> 00:34:52.590
the eventual winner, which was Jose Maria Alathabala.

00:34:54.090 --> 00:34:57.869
Again, apologies to any Spaniards, but he picked

00:34:57.869 --> 00:35:00.789
up his second green. I think British people have

00:35:00.789 --> 00:35:02.610
been butchering that name for many a year, Ben.

00:35:02.670 --> 00:35:06.119
You don't need to apologize. But yeah, sorry,

00:35:06.280 --> 00:35:08.159
I know just sort of reeled off some stats there,

00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:10.579
but I just think it's some fun stories kicking

00:35:10.579 --> 00:35:12.960
around as there always are in tournaments like

00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:18.440
this. Yeah. Yeah, that was very good. I'd not

00:35:18.440 --> 00:35:21.039
come across that in my reading, Greg Norman,

00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:23.659
probably because I was, and this is going to

00:35:23.659 --> 00:35:25.300
sound like I'm going in on Greg again, probably

00:35:25.300 --> 00:35:26.940
because I was focused on people who'd won it.

00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:33.460
Sorry, Greg. Greg Norman did win two Open Championships.

00:35:35.210 --> 00:35:40.989
He wasn't shit. No, he was not at all. Lots of

00:35:40.989 --> 00:35:44.789
high finishes in the other majors as well. Very

00:35:44.789 --> 00:35:47.610
talented golfer. I'm sure he made plenty of money

00:35:47.610 --> 00:35:50.130
out of it too. I'm sure he doesn't care about

00:35:50.130 --> 00:35:52.610
a couple of blokes. We're not criticising him.

00:35:53.389 --> 00:35:58.829
Just reading off the history, mate. You can't

00:35:58.829 --> 00:36:02.389
run from history. Just like the club can't run

00:36:02.389 --> 00:36:06.869
from their... their problematic past and controversies

00:36:06.869 --> 00:36:09.949
episode one we're very complimentary for good

00:36:09.949 --> 00:36:11.989
reason about an australian episode two it stands

00:36:11.989 --> 00:36:14.849
to reason we go the opposite way we are english

00:36:14.849 --> 00:36:18.530
after all but yeah i don't know what do you want

00:36:18.530 --> 00:36:20.449
to talk about i've got i've got some stuff on

00:36:20.449 --> 00:36:23.590
the course that we can talk about stuff stuff

00:36:23.590 --> 00:36:28.090
on the club uh itself the traditions what's your

00:36:28.090 --> 00:36:31.349
preference where do you want to go next Let's

00:36:31.349 --> 00:36:33.349
go for some traditions. Why not? Traditions.

00:36:33.349 --> 00:36:35.630
Well, that's often the best thing about sport,

00:36:35.750 --> 00:36:39.530
isn't it? The traditions. Should we do it chronologically?

00:36:40.230 --> 00:36:43.409
As if we were going into a Masters week? Let's

00:36:43.409 --> 00:36:47.030
do it. Anyone who's not as familiar with Augusta

00:36:47.030 --> 00:36:49.889
National Golf Club, here are the key traditions.

00:36:51.070 --> 00:36:53.650
Champions dinner. You must have heard of the

00:36:53.650 --> 00:36:55.949
champions dinner. I've heard of the champions

00:36:55.949 --> 00:36:58.329
dinner. Have you heard of the dinners that have

00:36:58.329 --> 00:37:02.380
been put on the menu? I've not heard the menu

00:37:02.380 --> 00:37:05.300
items and I'd love to hear them. Well, I mean,

00:37:05.300 --> 00:37:07.219
I don't have all the specifics because that would

00:37:07.219 --> 00:37:12.099
be boring, but it is usually something that the

00:37:12.099 --> 00:37:15.099
defending champion has a relationship with. So

00:37:15.099 --> 00:37:18.039
like, you know, from their home country or something

00:37:18.039 --> 00:37:20.820
like that. But there is one sweet story from

00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:24.400
2011, which has a tinge of sadness. But when

00:37:24.400 --> 00:37:26.590
Phil Mickelson won. one of his green jackets,

00:37:26.829 --> 00:37:30.050
he arranged for a Spanish -themed menu in the

00:37:30.050 --> 00:37:32.489
hopes that Seve Ballesteros would be able to

00:37:32.489 --> 00:37:35.269
attend when he was poorly. But unfortunately,

00:37:35.409 --> 00:37:38.469
Seve wasn't able to, and he actually ended up

00:37:38.469 --> 00:37:41.349
passing away a few weeks later. But I thought

00:37:41.349 --> 00:37:43.590
that was a lovely touch, because obviously he's

00:37:43.590 --> 00:37:47.050
a very wide discretion. Yeah, 1983 champion Seve

00:37:47.050 --> 00:37:53.469
Ballesteros. Yeah, so he is probably, in terms

00:37:53.469 --> 00:37:56.769
of overseas sportsmen, I don't know anyone who

00:37:56.769 --> 00:37:59.989
is as beloved as Tavares in England. Yeah, it's

00:37:59.989 --> 00:38:02.909
weird. Absolutely adored. He won, I think, three

00:38:02.909 --> 00:38:06.250
Open Championships. So obviously that's the British

00:38:06.250 --> 00:38:09.710
Open, as well as a couple of Masters, 1980 and

00:38:09.710 --> 00:38:13.349
1983. Legend. And that is actually a very sweet

00:38:13.349 --> 00:38:15.489
story. That's kind of made me send a shiver down

00:38:15.489 --> 00:38:17.190
my spine there. That was lovely. Yeah, it is

00:38:17.190 --> 00:38:20.130
nice, isn't it? And he's also, you omitted the

00:38:20.130 --> 00:38:23.849
fact that he's a Ryder Cup legend. Yes, that's

00:38:23.849 --> 00:38:28.340
probably why. But that tradition was started

00:38:28.340 --> 00:38:34.460
by Ben Hogan, the famous Ben Hogan in 1952. And

00:38:34.460 --> 00:38:36.659
it's held on the Tuesday before the Masters.

00:38:37.099 --> 00:38:40.360
And it's only open to past champions and, of

00:38:40.360 --> 00:38:42.679
course, certain board members because, you know,

00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:46.820
the boys aren't going to miss out. But that's

00:38:46.820 --> 00:38:49.679
the Champions Dinner, which is a light -hearted

00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:53.429
way of starting a tournament week. Sticking with

00:38:53.429 --> 00:38:57.530
the food theme just for a second. I didn't know

00:38:57.530 --> 00:39:00.050
this, but just because I thought it was weird.

00:39:01.210 --> 00:39:08.250
Pimento cheese sandwiches. Yes. I don't really

00:39:08.250 --> 00:39:10.150
know what pimento cheese is. I think it's an

00:39:10.150 --> 00:39:11.769
American thing. I know what pimentos are and

00:39:11.769 --> 00:39:15.010
I know what cheese is, obviously. It seems a

00:39:15.010 --> 00:39:17.449
strange combination. But I've heard this, and

00:39:17.449 --> 00:39:20.489
also I believe they're still sold for like $2

00:39:20.489 --> 00:39:23.949
.50 or $1 .50. They're still sold deliberately

00:39:23.949 --> 00:39:27.070
incredibly cheaply at the event. So as you can

00:39:27.070 --> 00:39:29.349
imagine, most sporting events behind closed doors,

00:39:29.469 --> 00:39:31.730
you tend to jack up the food prices, not keep

00:39:31.730 --> 00:39:36.090
them low. So that's nice. Yeah. Even if pimento

00:39:36.090 --> 00:39:38.690
cheese is a strange one to go with. Well, I'm

00:39:38.690 --> 00:39:42.179
like you. I don't know what pimento is. And I

00:39:42.179 --> 00:39:45.139
have no idea why it's a concession that's been

00:39:45.139 --> 00:39:48.039
around since the 40s, but apparently it is. It's

00:39:48.039 --> 00:39:51.440
basically just a sweet pepper, like a red pepper.

00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:56.659
Oh, okay. Well, people who go to the Masters

00:39:56.659 --> 00:40:00.159
seem to like it, I guess. I guess so. So yeah,

00:40:00.260 --> 00:40:02.619
if you're a patron, you're having pimento cheese

00:40:02.619 --> 00:40:04.440
sandwiches. If you're a former champ, you're

00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:07.619
having whatever other former, whatever the reigning

00:40:07.619 --> 00:40:10.320
champ wants you to eat in the lead up to... it

00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:12.719
didn't lead up to the masters but getting back

00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:15.440
to the golf they're one of the most fun parts

00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:21.039
of it is the par three contest oh yes i love

00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:23.760
the par three contest yeah around since 1960

00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:28.079
semi -social um par three played on a wednesday

00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:31.829
day before the first round um I think it's been

00:40:31.829 --> 00:40:34.150
played every year apart from 2017 when it was

00:40:34.150 --> 00:40:37.550
washed out. And 2020, 2021, they didn't hold

00:40:37.550 --> 00:40:39.489
it because of COVID, although they're obviously

00:40:39.489 --> 00:40:41.730
the main tournament. Main tournament did go ahead.

00:40:42.429 --> 00:40:45.909
A fair compromise, probably. Yeah, exactly. Apparently,

00:40:45.949 --> 00:40:54.489
weirdly, it's a par 27 course in the northeast

00:40:54.489 --> 00:40:56.869
corner of the club's grounds. So it's a specific

00:40:56.869 --> 00:41:01.719
specialist par three. course single round uh

00:41:01.719 --> 00:41:04.719
and traditionally all the contestants participate

00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:09.059
um with family members uh caddying for them and

00:41:09.059 --> 00:41:11.420
sometimes even allow them to play shots on their

00:41:11.420 --> 00:41:15.380
behalf and stuff so taken super seriously yes

00:41:15.380 --> 00:41:17.860
exactly as seriously as it should be taken i

00:41:17.860 --> 00:41:21.699
think for a par three tournament exactly makes

00:41:21.699 --> 00:41:24.280
for very good highlights though yeah well talking

00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:26.619
of highlights man it's not shy of a hole in one

00:41:27.900 --> 00:41:30.860
There's been 94 of them up to 2019. I don't know

00:41:30.860 --> 00:41:32.599
what the up -to -date stats are. I'm sure we

00:41:32.599 --> 00:41:34.480
could find them on the internet somewhere. But

00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:37.059
that worked out at about one and a half a year.

00:41:37.980 --> 00:41:40.380
Although if you were there in 2016, you'd have

00:41:40.380 --> 00:41:43.900
had a good day because there were nine. Nine.

00:41:44.340 --> 00:41:49.579
That's mad. Exactly. Replace one of the holes

00:41:49.579 --> 00:41:52.440
with a bucket or something. Incredible. A lot

00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:54.579
of Peugeots given away or whoever was sponsoring

00:41:54.579 --> 00:41:58.960
that particular tournament. Yeah, some famous

00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:00.900
names have won it though. Padraic Harrington

00:42:00.900 --> 00:42:03.599
has got the most wins. He's won it three times.

00:42:05.179 --> 00:42:08.800
Tom Watson, Sandy Lyle, Sam Snead. A couple of

00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:11.239
multiple winners. And yeah, I think there's only

00:42:11.239 --> 00:42:15.340
seven that have won it more than once. A couple

00:42:15.340 --> 00:42:17.179
of other notable champions, just to keep name

00:42:17.179 --> 00:42:19.460
-dropping people, Arnold Palmer, Gary Brewer,

00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:22.739
Davis Love III, Vijay Singh, Louis Oosthuizen,

00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:26.400
Luke Donald, and Ricky Fowler have all also won

00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:30.099
it. The lowest winning score was by Ben Walker

00:42:30.099 --> 00:42:33.360
in 2016, and he hit an eight under, which I actually

00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:36.039
think is pretty astonishing. Well, he must have

00:42:36.039 --> 00:42:37.920
had at least one hole -in -one there, if not

00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:40.119
two. Yeah, yeah. That was a year of all the hole

00:42:40.119 --> 00:42:42.420
-in -ones. Oh, that's a great point. I didn't

00:42:42.420 --> 00:42:45.539
even pick up on that. Ben Walker just dropping

00:42:45.539 --> 00:42:48.179
hole -in -ones the whole way around. But yeah,

00:42:48.300 --> 00:42:51.719
it's a bit of a curse, though. Do you want to

00:42:51.719 --> 00:42:55.480
know why? Do you know why? No, I don't know why.

00:42:55.639 --> 00:42:59.980
You're about to tell me why. No player has ever

00:42:59.980 --> 00:43:02.980
won the Par 3 contest and the Masters in the

00:43:02.980 --> 00:43:07.460
same year. There you go. Use up all your luck

00:43:07.460 --> 00:43:10.469
and your skill on the Wednesday. I'll teach you.

00:43:10.590 --> 00:43:14.650
Yeah, and only Vijay and Ben Crenshaw have won

00:43:14.650 --> 00:43:18.670
the Masters after having won the par 3. Okay,

00:43:18.750 --> 00:43:22.309
in like years to come. Impressive. Vijay Singh,

00:43:22.349 --> 00:43:25.869
though, what a guy. What a player. Absolutely.

00:43:28.449 --> 00:43:31.750
But yeah, that's a fun part of the tournament

00:43:31.750 --> 00:43:37.179
week. I think Rory once had... uh caroline wozniacki

00:43:37.179 --> 00:43:40.039
caddying for him didn't he in the par three and

00:43:40.039 --> 00:43:42.559
there was i bet that distracted some of the photographers

00:43:42.559 --> 00:43:50.400
who were there uh no comment um probably for

00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:54.539
the past but uh yeah carrying it on this is fun

00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:55.960
right i don't think this is still done anymore

00:43:55.960 --> 00:43:58.340
but i i think this is my favorite things uh that

00:43:58.340 --> 00:44:01.460
i that i learned about um with the masters they

00:44:01.460 --> 00:44:03.239
used to have a thing called i say they used to

00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:05.949
this might still go on Obviously, we were talking

00:44:05.949 --> 00:44:07.969
about the board members and everything, muscling

00:44:07.969 --> 00:44:11.869
on Champions Dinner and their self -imposed discretion

00:44:11.869 --> 00:44:13.789
for the invitational aspect of this. So I wouldn't

00:44:13.789 --> 00:44:15.590
be surprised if behind closed doors there's some

00:44:15.590 --> 00:44:22.989
similar conduct prevailing. But there's a thing

00:44:22.989 --> 00:44:27.489
called the Calcutta, which is an unofficial sweepstake

00:44:27.489 --> 00:44:31.550
of the players, where all of the entrants for

00:44:31.550 --> 00:44:33.849
a tournament were auctioned off to the punters.

00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:36.219
And the best players and obviously the favorites

00:44:36.219 --> 00:44:39.119
will go for major money. And then some of the

00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:44.179
other entrants who perhaps were less fancied

00:44:44.179 --> 00:44:47.260
to win would be pulled together so that they

00:44:47.260 --> 00:44:49.219
would be sold off in like syndicates, I guess.

00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:53.980
Yeah, that would be the correct word for it.

00:44:54.739 --> 00:44:58.280
Fair enough. And then all the money that people

00:44:58.280 --> 00:45:02.610
bid in order to assign their... their player

00:45:02.610 --> 00:45:04.789
of choice, I guess, would go into just a pot.

00:45:04.929 --> 00:45:06.849
And now you're thinking, you know, course, Ben,

00:45:06.989 --> 00:45:09.170
they must give it to charity. No, no, no, no,

00:45:09.190 --> 00:45:13.510
no. It's just, it's for the boys. And so, you

00:45:13.510 --> 00:45:16.510
know, an elitist sport it was, and perhaps still

00:45:16.510 --> 00:45:19.570
is. And if your player goes on to win it, you

00:45:19.570 --> 00:45:22.369
would get the majority of that pot. And then

00:45:22.369 --> 00:45:25.329
the second to fourth place would split the rest.

00:45:26.849 --> 00:45:30.130
Okay. And there is actually, sorry, go ahead,

00:45:30.190 --> 00:45:32.639
go ahead. I was just going to say that would

00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:37.019
be a great idea even to persist within the modern

00:45:37.019 --> 00:45:41.320
day if 50 % of that money went to charity. That

00:45:41.320 --> 00:45:44.960
would be an excellent idea. Somehow it doesn't

00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:48.639
feel quite so... There's some connotations there

00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:53.619
and it doesn't feel quite so comfortable. uh

00:45:53.619 --> 00:45:55.780
in my mind without it being a charitable thing

00:45:55.780 --> 00:45:58.539
but but anyway an interesting history an interesting

00:45:58.539 --> 00:46:00.420
piece of history there well it's even more fun

00:46:00.420 --> 00:46:03.400
than that because um you know you're you're quite

00:46:03.400 --> 00:46:05.980
right if there was a formality to it and a charitable

00:46:05.980 --> 00:46:09.420
aspect to it and perhaps one could justify it

00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:13.179
but um it certainly does undermine the integrity

00:46:13.179 --> 00:46:16.639
somewhat of perhaps the odd tournament or two

00:46:16.639 --> 00:46:20.820
uh and there's a chap called herman kaiser who's

00:46:20.820 --> 00:46:24.159
1946 winner of the masters which was the first

00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:25.880
to be held after World War II, which we'll come

00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:28.480
back to, because that's something we like to

00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:32.420
do. He thinks, or at least he's on record as

00:46:32.420 --> 00:46:34.400
having stated that he thinks that the Calcutta

00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:36.800
Cup, Calcutta Cup, that's a different thing altogether,

00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:40.519
the Calcutta nearly cost him the title. Kaiser

00:46:40.519 --> 00:46:42.659
went unsold in the Calcutta and formed part of

00:46:42.659 --> 00:46:46.019
a group before the 1946 tournament, and he was

00:46:46.019 --> 00:46:48.920
a massive outsider. And across his four rounds,

00:46:49.000 --> 00:46:50.880
he encountered a series of issues, you might

00:46:50.880 --> 00:46:54.860
call them, which he thinks progressively sort

00:46:54.860 --> 00:47:00.679
of contrived or conspired to sabotage him. Sabotage,

00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:08.219
yeah. Excellent. But basically, as he went deeper

00:47:08.219 --> 00:47:11.019
in the tournament, he remained in the hunt against

00:47:11.019 --> 00:47:13.679
some of the more favoured punters who people

00:47:13.679 --> 00:47:16.809
had more favoured. players who punters had quite

00:47:16.809 --> 00:47:20.090
some major money on um weird things started to

00:47:20.090 --> 00:47:23.030
happen and uh during one of the later rounds

00:47:23.030 --> 00:47:25.309
he was told the wrong tea time by a club official

00:47:25.309 --> 00:47:27.610
and nearly missed his tea time when he was leading

00:47:27.610 --> 00:47:31.230
and then he was also given a 13 year old caddy

00:47:31.230 --> 00:47:32.869
because this was back in the day where the players

00:47:32.869 --> 00:47:34.889
got assigned their caddies and they didn't get

00:47:34.889 --> 00:47:37.550
to bring their own caddies or choose them and

00:47:37.550 --> 00:47:39.550
it nearly worked because ben hogan came from

00:47:39.550 --> 00:47:43.960
five shots back uh and tied but tied with him

00:47:43.960 --> 00:47:46.260
but then on the final on the 18th Hogan three

00:47:46.260 --> 00:47:48.780
-putted when a birdie would have won it for him

00:47:48.780 --> 00:47:52.199
a par would have sent it to a playoff um but

00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:55.300
he three -putted for a bogey and Kaiser was champion

00:47:55.300 --> 00:47:58.860
so yeah Kaiser described it as the greatest thing

00:47:58.860 --> 00:48:03.099
to ever happen to me so yeah a nice a nice ending

00:48:03.099 --> 00:48:07.639
but uh yeah interesting things go on when people

00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:11.389
are unofficially betting That would make for

00:48:11.389 --> 00:48:14.489
an excellent comedy film. Yeah, it would. Basically,

00:48:14.750 --> 00:48:18.889
it's like Happy Gilmore Professional. Yeah. Yeah,

00:48:18.909 --> 00:48:22.329
like Happy Gilmore Caddyshack, but yeah, based

00:48:22.329 --> 00:48:24.889
on a true story. Do you know what I was saying

00:48:24.889 --> 00:48:26.809
else about Kaiser? Just because this is completely

00:48:26.809 --> 00:48:30.690
unrelated to the Calcutta, but I just thought

00:48:30.690 --> 00:48:33.750
it was weird. His nickname was the Missouri Mortician.

00:48:34.829 --> 00:48:37.639
Okay, and why was that? I don't know. It's not

00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:42.300
clear, but it sounds very sinister. Is it just

00:48:42.300 --> 00:48:45.340
no one's sure? Or were you just unable to find

00:48:45.340 --> 00:48:48.880
out? I couldn't find the answer. He wasn't a

00:48:48.880 --> 00:48:53.440
pathologist, as far as I could tell. I was going

00:48:53.440 --> 00:48:58.059
to say that would be the obvious solution, but

00:48:58.059 --> 00:49:02.940
yeah, interesting. But he made the 47 Ryder Cup

00:49:02.940 --> 00:49:05.739
team as a result of his win. And the USA demolished

00:49:05.739 --> 00:49:08.360
us 11 -1 back in the day where the US played

00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:13.079
the UK. But the funny thing is that Kaiser was

00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:19.599
the one, so denied the clean sweep. Yeah, that'll

00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:23.920
teach him. They got him eventually. That's probably

00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:28.340
the Calcutta of the Ryder Cup. influencing that

00:49:28.340 --> 00:49:30.780
someone uh that must be yeah someone had bet

00:49:30.780 --> 00:49:37.039
on an 11 -1 win um yeah but yeah uh that's the

00:49:37.039 --> 00:49:39.800
calcutta it's kind of fun the crow's nest have

00:49:39.800 --> 00:49:41.659
you heard of the crow's nest i didn't know about

00:49:41.659 --> 00:49:44.059
this yes no i have actually heard of this this

00:49:44.059 --> 00:49:47.340
is where the amateurs stay isn't it yes exactly

00:49:47.340 --> 00:49:50.019
it's like a five bedroom a nice little five bedroom

00:49:50.019 --> 00:49:53.639
apartment which is cool Mate, it's like 1 ,200

00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:55.800
square feet, so a nice little apartment. A nice

00:49:55.800 --> 00:50:02.420
big five -bedroom apartment. Exactly. But yeah,

00:50:02.460 --> 00:50:05.480
they get to stay there. It's kind of fun. And

00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:07.440
then I think this is a nice rule. So there's

00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:09.360
a lot of weird rules at Augusta because it's

00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:14.139
very traditional. But no phones, which is cool.

00:50:14.340 --> 00:50:16.820
Okay. That is good, actually, as opposed to just

00:50:16.820 --> 00:50:19.800
having to mute them. Yeah, exactly. No, I think

00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:22.480
that is nice because... You don't get all the

00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:24.179
pictures from the course and everything as well.

00:50:25.260 --> 00:50:27.840
They kick you the fuck out if you use it. Or

00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:29.219
if you get caught using it. I'm sure people do.

00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:33.900
They actually do police it. And if you're caught

00:50:33.900 --> 00:50:37.039
with your phone on the course, you can get kicked

00:50:37.039 --> 00:50:39.519
out. Yeah, I don't disagree with that. If you're

00:50:39.519 --> 00:50:42.539
there to watch sport, watch some sports. Exactly.

00:50:43.380 --> 00:50:45.420
The amount of events you go to nowadays where

00:50:45.420 --> 00:50:48.239
it's just people with their phones out. I approve

00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:50.969
of that rule. I wish that rule was... I'm sounding

00:50:50.969 --> 00:50:52.710
like such an old man now. I wish that was more

00:50:52.710 --> 00:50:58.449
normal. Sky are filming it. They've got better

00:50:58.449 --> 00:51:00.550
cameras than you. Just enjoy what you're watching.

00:51:01.309 --> 00:51:03.329
You're not going to get better footage than Sky

00:51:03.329 --> 00:51:05.150
Sports are. Exactly. If you want to watch it

00:51:05.150 --> 00:51:07.570
back, just watch it back on YouTube. Or CBS or

00:51:07.570 --> 00:51:14.989
whoever. Anyway, good rule. What else? Caddies.

00:51:16.050 --> 00:51:20.460
Oh, yeah. Less good rule. Yes, this was a less

00:51:20.460 --> 00:51:23.380
good rule. Do you want to talk about caddies?

00:51:24.280 --> 00:51:27.679
Yeah, I can do. Give your voice a rest. You're

00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:31.539
doing an excellent job so far. Well done. This

00:51:31.539 --> 00:51:36.000
is a slightly more negative tradition and obviously

00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:40.440
goes back to the history of the area, the history

00:51:40.440 --> 00:51:45.510
of America generally. So until 1983... All the

00:51:45.510 --> 00:51:47.789
players in the Masters were required to use the

00:51:47.789 --> 00:51:50.210
services of an Augusta National Club caddy, which

00:51:50.210 --> 00:51:53.610
obviously on the face of it sounds fine. But

00:51:53.610 --> 00:51:56.769
by club tradition, those caddies were always

00:51:56.769 --> 00:51:59.710
black, which is a very questionable policy for

00:51:59.710 --> 00:52:02.489
a club which, as mentioned, didn't invite any

00:52:02.489 --> 00:52:06.389
black members until 1990. Obviously, this being

00:52:06.389 --> 00:52:10.829
Georgia, historically in the south of the country,

00:52:10.909 --> 00:52:13.809
historically. one of the places that resisted

00:52:13.809 --> 00:52:16.590
desegregation for a long time being a private

00:52:16.590 --> 00:52:18.570
members club and getting to make their own rules

00:52:18.570 --> 00:52:22.389
you could argue it is a persistence of that however

00:52:22.389 --> 00:52:26.070
it it was sort of reinforced by the the founders

00:52:26.070 --> 00:52:29.030
co -founder clifford roberts is reputed to have

00:52:29.030 --> 00:52:31.949
said as long as i'm alive golfers will be white

00:52:31.949 --> 00:52:36.050
and caddies will be black yeah um it is is yeah

00:52:36.380 --> 00:52:39.519
That is what that is. But however, since 1983,

00:52:39.860 --> 00:52:41.880
which is six years after Robert's death, which

00:52:41.880 --> 00:52:44.539
may or may not be a coincidence, players have

00:52:44.539 --> 00:52:46.139
been allowed the option of bringing their own

00:52:46.139 --> 00:52:48.099
caddy to a tournament regardless of the race

00:52:48.099 --> 00:52:51.880
of that caddy. So again, I don't hate the idea

00:52:51.880 --> 00:52:55.199
of providing of caddies. I guess it would be

00:52:55.199 --> 00:52:58.380
an equaliser, but that is just incredible that

00:52:58.380 --> 00:53:01.699
that was something that persisted into, well,

00:53:01.699 --> 00:53:06.820
into the 1980s. But a handful of years before

00:53:06.820 --> 00:53:09.840
our birth, Ben. And to the credit of some other

00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:12.739
players, when that rule was changed, I think

00:53:12.739 --> 00:53:17.460
quite a few of them employed the club caddies.

00:53:17.639 --> 00:53:20.579
And one of those guys that did that was Jack

00:53:20.579 --> 00:53:24.159
Nicklaus, I think. Which is a nice touch, obviously.

00:53:24.500 --> 00:53:27.320
But perhaps it shouldn't have... Well, not perhaps.

00:53:27.400 --> 00:53:30.699
What am I saying? It should not have been necessary

00:53:30.699 --> 00:53:34.960
for them to have done so. Yeah, again, the issue

00:53:34.960 --> 00:53:37.320
I have is completely not with the club providing

00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:41.539
the caddies. Just reiterate that point. Yeah,

00:53:41.559 --> 00:53:46.159
exactly. But I mean, in more modern times, I

00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:51.300
think the caddies are pretty iconic at Augusta.

00:53:51.940 --> 00:53:54.219
Yeah, it's an iconic look. I mean, obviously,

00:53:54.260 --> 00:53:57.380
even to this day, they wear the white jumpsuit,

00:53:57.420 --> 00:53:59.739
green master's cap, white tennis shoes. They

00:53:59.739 --> 00:54:01.519
all look the same, player's name on the back.

00:54:02.650 --> 00:54:04.750
Obviously, certain players have certain caddies

00:54:04.750 --> 00:54:07.849
they bring to every tournament and the caddies

00:54:07.849 --> 00:54:09.550
are rewarded handsomely if they're with a good

00:54:09.550 --> 00:54:13.070
player with a percentage of the winnings. It

00:54:13.070 --> 00:54:14.969
is a good job to be a caddy and they do work

00:54:14.969 --> 00:54:18.730
hard for it. They have to know the course better

00:54:18.730 --> 00:54:21.349
than they know themselves and better than the

00:54:21.349 --> 00:54:24.030
player knows it and allow their player to focus

00:54:24.030 --> 00:54:27.190
on the game, psychological battle against themselves

00:54:27.190 --> 00:54:30.650
and not worry about yardage or choice of club.

00:54:31.039 --> 00:54:35.260
or any silly things like that. Didn't Tigers

00:54:35.260 --> 00:54:38.019
Caddy used to be the highest paid sportsman in

00:54:38.019 --> 00:54:42.960
New Zealand at one point? Quite possibly, given

00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:47.519
most sportsmen in New Zealand tend towards rugby

00:54:47.519 --> 00:54:50.059
and cricket and sports which aren't historically.

00:54:50.989 --> 00:54:53.030
Obviously, that's changing, but on historically

00:54:53.030 --> 00:54:58.510
well -renumerated. So yeah, he was making even

00:54:58.510 --> 00:55:01.650
5 % or 10 % of what Tiger Woods' winnings were.

00:55:02.010 --> 00:55:06.989
Tiger Woods won $99 million between 1997 and

00:55:06.989 --> 00:55:11.090
2008. $99 million. So 5 % or 10 % of that, whatever

00:55:11.090 --> 00:55:15.489
it is, cha -ching. Yeah, it's good money. There's

00:55:15.489 --> 00:55:17.550
some pretty cool stories about caddies, or funny

00:55:17.550 --> 00:55:20.659
ones at least, associated with the role. Not

00:55:20.659 --> 00:55:23.820
just good on the course, good value off it as

00:55:23.820 --> 00:55:27.380
well, occasionally, I think. Bert Yancey might

00:55:27.380 --> 00:55:32.239
have had one of those experiences. Bert Yancey

00:55:32.239 --> 00:55:35.539
himself had an interesting life. He had bipolar

00:55:35.539 --> 00:55:38.679
back in the day, perhaps before it was recognised

00:55:38.679 --> 00:55:42.019
as a mental health condition. He'd spent some

00:55:42.019 --> 00:55:44.260
nine months in a psychiatric hospital at West

00:55:44.260 --> 00:55:47.179
Point whilst he was serving. Went on to record

00:55:47.179 --> 00:55:49.420
back -to -back third -place finishes in 67 and

00:55:49.420 --> 00:55:52.699
68, but had one interesting experience at the

00:55:52.699 --> 00:55:56.519
Masters with one of his caddies when he lent

00:55:56.519 --> 00:55:59.199
his caddy his car the night before, which, you

00:55:59.199 --> 00:56:03.920
know, questionable judgment. And the car also

00:56:03.920 --> 00:56:08.719
had Yancey's clubs in it. And when he came to

00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:11.139
play the next day... The caddy was nowhere to

00:56:11.139 --> 00:56:16.039
be seen. So the assistant caddy master was tasked

00:56:16.039 --> 00:56:19.519
with finding this young man and thought long

00:56:19.519 --> 00:56:22.920
and hard about where this caddy might be if he

00:56:22.920 --> 00:56:24.719
wasn't at the club. Interesting choice of words.

00:56:26.860 --> 00:56:29.219
But his instincts were spot on and he found the

00:56:29.219 --> 00:56:33.539
caddy in a local brothel and the car and the

00:56:33.539 --> 00:56:36.000
clubs were recovered and returned to Yancey just

00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:38.519
in time for his tea time. Needless to say, the

00:56:38.519 --> 00:56:42.500
caddy was sacked. Fair enough. I think that's

00:56:42.500 --> 00:56:45.079
probably the right side of the disciplinary action.

00:56:46.179 --> 00:56:48.099
Yancey went on to win seven PGA Tours for what

00:56:48.099 --> 00:56:51.659
it's worth and became an advocate for mental

00:56:51.659 --> 00:56:54.440
health, which is nice. Oh, that's good. Probably.

00:56:55.159 --> 00:56:57.239
when that wasn't such a common thing as well

00:56:57.239 --> 00:56:59.559
I imagine given this was the 60s when he was

00:56:59.559 --> 00:57:03.920
playing so that's good yeah exactly and not a

00:57:03.920 --> 00:57:07.900
caddy but a caddy is another good story Sammy

00:57:07.900 --> 00:57:12.199
Bird do you want to you heard about him oh this

00:57:12.199 --> 00:57:17.619
Babe Ruth caddy yeah this is the guy uh so he

00:57:17.619 --> 00:57:21.980
was a Former Major League Baseball player for

00:57:21.980 --> 00:57:24.719
the Yankees. He used to pinch run for Roof and

00:57:24.719 --> 00:57:27.760
take over defensively in late innings. If anyone

00:57:27.760 --> 00:57:31.719
knows about Babe Roof, obviously legend of baseball.

00:57:32.119 --> 00:57:34.599
Going to be on anyone's GOAT argument for baseball.

00:57:35.159 --> 00:57:38.800
But towards his later career, perhaps the waistline

00:57:38.800 --> 00:57:42.000
was getting a bit large, so needed a pinch runner

00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:44.559
and a defensive substitute from time to time

00:57:44.559 --> 00:57:48.559
to let him get an early finish. But he used to

00:57:48.559 --> 00:57:51.960
play golf with Babe, hence the nickname. So Bird

00:57:51.960 --> 00:57:53.719
went on to have a golf career and entered the

00:57:53.719 --> 00:57:58.980
Masters five times in 1948. He entered the history

00:57:58.980 --> 00:58:01.099
books for shooting one of the worst single hole

00:58:01.099 --> 00:58:04.420
scores on the course with a 10, which sounds

00:58:04.420 --> 00:58:07.380
like one of my scores for a hole. It's my average,

00:58:07.480 --> 00:58:10.619
I reckon. He's a two -sport professional and

00:58:10.619 --> 00:58:12.260
the only person to have played in a World Series,

00:58:12.500 --> 00:58:16.559
which he won in 1932 and the Masters. and also

00:58:16.559 --> 00:58:18.659
achieved a career -high finish at third at the

00:58:18.659 --> 00:58:22.300
Masters and six PGA Tour wins. So let us not

00:58:22.300 --> 00:58:25.000
mug him off too much, Ben. Yeah, geez. That is

00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:29.019
fairly impressive, although I'm sure that probably

00:58:29.019 --> 00:58:31.420
about an hour of his life when he was slugging

00:58:31.420 --> 00:58:34.099
10 on a hole probably is not one he wants to

00:58:34.099 --> 00:58:37.139
be remembered for. Pretty funny that you have

00:58:37.139 --> 00:58:39.380
that kind of career and you're just known as

00:58:39.380 --> 00:58:44.320
Babe Bruce Caddy. Yeah. I think, if anything,

00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:46.219
that just shows what a big deal Babe Ruth was.

00:58:46.559 --> 00:58:49.800
That's true, actually. That's fair. And we will

00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:51.900
get to baseball. I can't wait to get to baseball.

00:58:51.980 --> 00:58:54.139
It's going to be a while, but we will get to

00:58:54.139 --> 00:58:56.719
it at some point. We will. And the Babe will

00:58:56.719 --> 00:58:59.559
get a mention. It's inevitable, since we're following

00:58:59.559 --> 00:59:04.420
the calendar. October, baby. Probably should

00:59:04.420 --> 00:59:06.519
doff a cap, actually, to the ladies, because

00:59:06.519 --> 00:59:09.960
we haven't mentioned them yet. Whilst we're on

00:59:09.960 --> 00:59:16.440
caddies, first female caddy, I think, 1983, a

00:59:16.440 --> 00:59:20.300
lady called Elizabeth Archer, her dad, George

00:59:20.300 --> 00:59:24.519
Archer, was a champion in 69. And she caddied

00:59:24.519 --> 00:59:28.119
for him. And I think she was the first female

00:59:28.119 --> 00:59:33.619
caddy. And female caddies are pretty rare, actually,

00:59:33.760 --> 00:59:37.639
to be fair, at the Masters. But they do, you

00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:40.280
know. The ladies do do their bit. And I think

00:59:40.280 --> 00:59:43.420
there have been some pretty big names with female

00:59:43.420 --> 00:59:45.460
caddies in the past. Like Henrik Stenson, I think,

00:59:45.500 --> 00:59:48.039
comes to mind. I can't remember off the top of

00:59:48.039 --> 00:59:50.860
my head all the others. But staying on the theme

00:59:50.860 --> 00:59:56.139
of the girls, the women's amateur has just finished,

00:59:56.280 --> 01:00:00.340
I think. It started in 2019 and it has just finished

01:00:00.340 --> 01:00:07.239
today. And it was won by... Carla Bernat Escuda

01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:11.920
from Spain in short of 12 under. Very good. So

01:00:11.920 --> 01:00:14.920
that's at the Augusta National on the same course,

01:00:14.980 --> 01:00:17.539
presumably just off slightly shorter tees as

01:00:17.539 --> 01:00:22.039
per tradition. So it's a bit odd. The final round

01:00:22.039 --> 01:00:27.139
is played at Augusta. Okay. Yeah, the first two,

01:00:27.199 --> 01:00:31.860
I think, might be held at another club, Champions

01:00:31.860 --> 01:00:38.590
Retreat Club. In Evans, Georgia. I might be getting

01:00:38.590 --> 01:00:40.150
this slightly wrong. I'm not overly familiar

01:00:40.150 --> 01:00:42.469
with the entire round format. No, no, you're

01:00:42.469 --> 01:00:45.389
correct. Yeah, it's a 54 -hole tournament. Yeah,

01:00:45.429 --> 01:00:47.269
first two roles at the Champions Retreat Golf

01:00:47.269 --> 01:00:50.349
Club and the final round at Augusta, which presumably

01:00:50.349 --> 01:00:57.090
is maybe after the cut. Fair enough. But it is

01:00:57.090 --> 01:00:59.389
an amateur event, so it's not on the women's

01:00:59.389 --> 01:01:02.110
PGA. I think a lot of the women playing in it

01:01:02.110 --> 01:01:06.760
are collegiate. But not all. They come from all

01:01:06.760 --> 01:01:08.900
around the world, but most of them are at university

01:01:08.900 --> 01:01:12.480
in the States. But it's pretty cool. And it's

01:01:12.480 --> 01:01:14.079
obviously a decent development. I mean, it's

01:01:14.079 --> 01:01:17.460
come a bit late in the day, hasn't it? Like 2019

01:01:17.460 --> 01:01:21.699
is pretty barbaric. Well, when you bear in mind

01:01:21.699 --> 01:01:24.860
that the first female members of Augusta National

01:01:24.860 --> 01:01:29.739
was only in, was it 2012? Yeah, man. Yeah. Condoleezza.

01:01:30.239 --> 01:01:31.980
Condoleezza Rice. Condoleezza Rice, yeah. Who's

01:01:31.980 --> 01:01:33.940
also black. And Darla Moore. So that tells you

01:01:33.940 --> 01:01:38.460
what. She is, but she was also a Republican member

01:01:38.460 --> 01:01:42.960
of George Bush's cabinet. So I guess that would

01:01:42.960 --> 01:01:45.840
adhere her to some of the traditionalists of

01:01:45.840 --> 01:01:48.039
the course. But yeah, Condoleezza Rice and Darla

01:01:48.039 --> 01:01:50.059
Moore were the first female members. In 2013

01:01:50.059 --> 01:01:56.260
it was. Oh, 2013. Jesus. Which is 12 years ago.

01:01:56.860 --> 01:01:58.980
There you go. That's pretty mad. It's pretty

01:01:58.980 --> 01:02:03.579
funny when, like you say, let's not get too political,

01:02:03.639 --> 01:02:06.300
but when Tiger found himself in, let's call it

01:02:06.300 --> 01:02:10.559
a pickle. Pickle, that's one way of putting it.

01:02:10.659 --> 01:02:13.360
Yeah. And his personal issues and private life

01:02:13.360 --> 01:02:16.599
were quite publicly ventilated in around 2010.

01:02:17.159 --> 01:02:21.079
I think the chairman of the club was like hammering

01:02:21.079 --> 01:02:24.139
him. And it's like, I'm not sure you've got the

01:02:24.139 --> 01:02:26.739
moral high ground here, guys. I mean, I know

01:02:26.739 --> 01:02:29.320
Tiger, let's not make any excuses for Tiger,

01:02:29.380 --> 01:02:33.360
but yeah, if you've got no female members in

01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:36.260
a female tournament yet, maybe wind your neck

01:02:36.260 --> 01:02:40.400
in. Yeah. Get your own ducks in a row. Maybe,

01:02:40.480 --> 01:02:45.760
yeah. Yeah, I don't think with its history, let's

01:02:45.760 --> 01:02:47.480
just say it's always been a little bit behind

01:02:47.480 --> 01:02:51.960
the times, so I'm not necessarily sure. I'm sure

01:02:51.960 --> 01:02:56.320
there are people more who would have more. oomph

01:02:56.320 --> 01:02:59.099
behind that particular statement then maybe they

01:02:59.099 --> 01:03:00.900
should leave it to someone else to comment on

01:03:00.900 --> 01:03:03.659
well yeah especially such matters I think they

01:03:03.659 --> 01:03:05.920
quite heavily resisted some campaigning in the

01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:10.260
early 2000s the club as well about the no women

01:03:10.260 --> 01:03:12.639
membership to the point where I think it might

01:03:12.639 --> 01:03:16.139
have even I mean there's a bit of innuendo here

01:03:16.139 --> 01:03:18.980
and I couldn't possibly back this up but golf's

01:03:18.980 --> 01:03:21.119
obviously now an Olympic sport and quite recently

01:03:21.119 --> 01:03:23.059
remade Olympic sport I think went back in in

01:03:23.059 --> 01:03:26.500
2016 in Rio And there's some suggestion, though,

01:03:26.539 --> 01:03:31.820
that the club's policy and their reaction to

01:03:31.820 --> 01:03:33.980
people lobbying for a change in that policy may

01:03:33.980 --> 01:03:37.099
have been taken on board by the IOC and delayed

01:03:37.099 --> 01:03:42.940
golf's readmittance to the Olympics. Well, I'm

01:03:42.940 --> 01:03:46.300
not saying it's necessarily definitely the case,

01:03:46.400 --> 01:03:51.659
but it is a fact that the first time it was admitted

01:03:51.659 --> 01:03:55.619
as an Olympic tournament came. just after they

01:03:55.619 --> 01:03:58.460
admitted female members for the first time. Whether

01:03:58.460 --> 01:04:00.019
or not that's coincidence or not, I don't know.

01:04:00.119 --> 01:04:04.380
But it is good to see golf moving, or the International

01:04:04.380 --> 01:04:06.559
certainly, and just golf in general, moving in

01:04:06.559 --> 01:04:10.360
the right direction. It is just the lag compared

01:04:10.360 --> 01:04:11.980
to the rest of the world and the rest of the

01:04:11.980 --> 01:04:16.760
sport is noticeable, shall we say. Slow and steady

01:04:16.760 --> 01:04:21.780
doesn't win this particular race. No. But yeah,

01:04:21.880 --> 01:04:25.980
anyway, we've digressed slightly. As we do. Yeah,

01:04:26.019 --> 01:04:29.199
as we do. Rounding off the traditions in the

01:04:29.199 --> 01:04:33.480
week, honorary tee shot, that's a fun thing.

01:04:34.079 --> 01:04:36.880
Past champs, basically, invited to hit an honorary

01:04:36.880 --> 01:04:38.840
tee shot in the morning of the first round to

01:04:38.840 --> 01:04:41.800
commence play. Nice. In the past, they've included

01:04:41.800 --> 01:04:44.739
Sam Snead, Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus, Gary

01:04:44.739 --> 01:04:48.539
Player, the aforementioned Lee Elder, Tom Watson,

01:04:48.760 --> 01:04:52.920
which is... Quite a nice tradition. Only introduced

01:04:52.920 --> 01:05:00.340
in 63, maybe? Yes. Well remembered. Then you've

01:05:00.340 --> 01:05:03.260
got the awards. Most of these are, you know,

01:05:03.280 --> 01:05:08.019
not irrelevant. That's unfair. Nice to haves,

01:05:08.019 --> 01:05:11.780
but aren't the one that you're there for. The

01:05:11.780 --> 01:05:16.639
lowest score on each. round receives a crystal

01:05:16.639 --> 01:05:19.539
vase players who score a hole in one or a double

01:05:19.539 --> 01:05:22.739
eagle win a large crystal bowl uh leave it to

01:05:22.739 --> 01:05:24.619
the listeners to decide whether they'd rather

01:05:24.619 --> 01:05:29.139
a vase or a bowl um yeah eagle gets you a pair

01:05:29.139 --> 01:05:32.579
of crystal goblets um there must be a crystal

01:05:32.579 --> 01:05:34.920
manufacturer like around the corner oh god there's

01:05:34.920 --> 01:05:37.320
a lot of crystal going on here silver cup to

01:05:37.320 --> 01:05:40.460
the lowest scoring amateur to make the cut runner

01:05:40.460 --> 01:05:42.739
-up receives a silver medal which is only introduced

01:05:42.739 --> 01:05:47.989
in 51 but But the winner, well, what does the

01:05:47.989 --> 01:05:51.469
winner get, Jack? Legendary status, remembered

01:05:51.469 --> 01:05:56.210
forever. Yes, true, true. A master's trophy.

01:05:56.610 --> 01:05:59.849
A master's trophy, but more importantly. the

01:05:59.849 --> 01:06:02.969
winners get the green jacket. They have the name

01:06:02.969 --> 01:06:04.809
engraved on the actual Silver Masters trophy,

01:06:04.949 --> 01:06:06.989
but they don't care about that. All they're really

01:06:06.989 --> 01:06:09.150
after is that green jacket. So the green jacket

01:06:09.150 --> 01:06:12.309
is presented to that year's winner by the previous

01:06:12.309 --> 01:06:16.230
year's winner. I believe if it's a back -to -back

01:06:16.230 --> 01:06:18.510
win, I think the chairman of the club presents

01:06:18.510 --> 01:06:21.530
it. I think that's right. On the rare occasion

01:06:21.530 --> 01:06:23.989
that that happens. So yeah, the green jacket,

01:06:24.230 --> 01:06:27.170
introduced in 1949 and awarded to the champion.

01:06:27.869 --> 01:06:29.969
Previous champions were retroactively awarded

01:06:29.969 --> 01:06:34.789
it, so every champion ever of the Masters has

01:06:34.789 --> 01:06:37.070
been awarded a green jacket, some just not at

01:06:37.070 --> 01:06:40.150
the time. It's the official attire worn by members

01:06:40.150 --> 01:06:42.750
of the Augusta National, but only while on the

01:06:42.750 --> 01:06:45.710
club grounds. So each Masters winner essentially

01:06:45.710 --> 01:06:48.269
becomes an honorary member of the club. So yes,

01:06:48.730 --> 01:06:51.650
the jacket is presented to him, the winner, inside

01:06:51.650 --> 01:06:54.309
the butler cabin as soon after the end of the

01:06:54.309 --> 01:06:56.590
tournament as possible in a televised ceremony.

01:06:57.210 --> 01:06:59.530
And the presentation is then repeated outside

01:06:59.530 --> 01:07:04.469
the 18th green for the hoi polloi to enjoy. The

01:07:04.469 --> 01:07:06.809
one in the cabin is a bit contrived, I think.

01:07:07.190 --> 01:07:10.750
Yes. It's always quite awkward, I think, when

01:07:10.750 --> 01:07:13.030
you watch it. I think they just want the jacket

01:07:13.030 --> 01:07:16.829
on. Get a few pictures with the family. Exactly.

01:07:17.429 --> 01:07:19.849
Apparently it's not a hard and fast rule, but

01:07:19.849 --> 01:07:22.030
generally speaking, only a first time and the

01:07:22.030 --> 01:07:24.789
current reigning champion may remove their jacket

01:07:24.789 --> 01:07:27.710
from the club grounds. and the champions must

01:07:27.710 --> 01:07:30.010
then return it to the clubhouse one year after

01:07:30.010 --> 01:07:31.750
their victory. There's got to be people who've

01:07:31.750 --> 01:07:35.730
taken it. Oh, I'm certain. It remains a personal

01:07:35.730 --> 01:07:38.489
property, their personal property, but is stored

01:07:38.489 --> 01:07:40.650
with the other champion's jacket in a specifically

01:07:40.650 --> 01:07:44.349
designed cloakroom. And a golfer who wins the

01:07:44.349 --> 01:07:46.110
event multiple times will use the same green

01:07:46.110 --> 01:07:49.070
jacket, so they won't just get... Jack Nicklaus

01:07:49.070 --> 01:07:51.110
doesn't have six green jackets. He will have

01:07:51.110 --> 01:07:53.230
one green jacket unless he has to get refitted

01:07:53.230 --> 01:07:56.949
with one later. That's a bit rubbish. I mean,

01:07:57.010 --> 01:07:59.809
yeah, terrible. I think they could afford it.

01:07:59.909 --> 01:08:02.329
I can't imagine what their fees are. And also,

01:08:02.409 --> 01:08:06.570
if it's the thing that is synonymous with the

01:08:06.570 --> 01:08:11.769
win, you want it, don't you? I don't know. Give

01:08:11.769 --> 01:08:14.309
the man his jackets, is what I'm trying to say.

01:08:14.969 --> 01:08:17.369
To reward a multiple winner, keep giving them

01:08:17.369 --> 01:08:18.750
jackets and just say, oh, you only have to leave

01:08:18.750 --> 01:08:20.529
one at the club. Take the rest home with you.

01:08:21.289 --> 01:08:23.909
That's a nice way of putting it, actually. Earn

01:08:23.909 --> 01:08:27.100
the right. I can't even imagine what the old

01:08:27.100 --> 01:08:30.060
white guys who run the Augusta National would

01:08:30.060 --> 01:08:32.800
think about someone going out and wearing an

01:08:32.800 --> 01:08:36.300
Augusta jacket to, oh God, like a concert or

01:08:36.300 --> 01:08:39.840
a football match or something like that. A nightclub.

01:08:39.899 --> 01:08:43.300
Goodness gracious me. Could you imagine? I know.

01:08:44.859 --> 01:08:48.380
Yeah, I don't like that. I think give the men

01:08:48.380 --> 01:08:53.420
their jackets when they win. But yeah, it's a

01:08:53.420 --> 01:08:56.579
pretty... What can you say about the Green Jacket?

01:08:56.600 --> 01:08:58.020
The Green Jacket and the Masters. The Masters

01:08:58.020 --> 01:08:59.779
is the Green Jacket. The Green Jacket is the

01:08:59.779 --> 01:09:06.899
Masters. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, we haven't

01:09:06.899 --> 01:09:09.539
really spoken about the course. Probably should.

01:09:10.680 --> 01:09:15.800
No, no. I mean, is anyone interested in the grass?

01:09:17.539 --> 01:09:19.640
Is anyone interested in the grass? Yeah, they

01:09:19.640 --> 01:09:21.560
might be, I guess. Tell me. Maybe I'll be interested.

01:09:21.819 --> 01:09:23.539
There might be some farmers. There might be some...

01:09:24.460 --> 01:09:26.159
horticulturalists all right well for the grass

01:09:26.159 --> 01:09:31.260
enthusiasts out there um it was originally wide

01:09:31.260 --> 01:09:34.560
bladed bermuda which you know is one of my personal

01:09:34.560 --> 01:09:37.939
favorite um brands of grass bit old -fashioned

01:09:37.939 --> 01:09:40.979
personally but it was uh it was replaced by the

01:09:40.979 --> 01:09:45.199
short bladed bermuda um common sense yeah but

01:09:45.199 --> 01:09:49.550
now it's the bent grass um and i don't really

01:09:49.550 --> 01:09:52.109
not what i'd have done but you know each to their

01:09:52.109 --> 01:09:54.029
own i don't know what any of this means mate

01:09:54.029 --> 01:09:55.949
other than the fact that the putting greens are

01:09:55.949 --> 01:10:00.170
lightning um yes like literally so fast that

01:10:00.170 --> 01:10:03.630
um many of the greens had to be reshaped and

01:10:03.630 --> 01:10:06.050
on occasion entirely redesigned because they

01:10:06.050 --> 01:10:10.569
changed the grass um which is excellent pretty

01:10:10.569 --> 01:10:13.090
you know well i guess it means there's something

01:10:13.090 --> 01:10:16.520
in the grass but uh yeah and the bunkers if we're

01:10:16.520 --> 01:10:21.220
interested in sand it used to be might be some

01:10:21.220 --> 01:10:25.220
geologists i don't know common beige sand uh

01:10:25.220 --> 01:10:28.960
yeah replaced with the now signature apparently

01:10:28.960 --> 01:10:34.140
white feldspar um it's a quartz derivative um

01:10:34.140 --> 01:10:36.859
of the mining of feldspar and is shipped in from

01:10:36.859 --> 01:10:39.840
north carolina so you know who gives a shit basically

01:10:42.710 --> 01:10:46.289
Yeah. Couldn't have put it better myself. Yeah.

01:10:46.470 --> 01:10:48.670
I mean, the course itself has been through a

01:10:48.670 --> 01:10:51.710
few changes. I think the first hole used to be,

01:10:51.789 --> 01:10:53.329
the 10th hole used to be the first hole. They

01:10:53.329 --> 01:10:55.550
reversed the nines, which now means that the

01:10:55.550 --> 01:10:59.949
first was the 10th and vice versa. Been a few,

01:10:59.970 --> 01:11:02.189
you know, bunkers have been added, water hazards

01:11:02.189 --> 01:11:07.329
extended, tee boxes have been built, like shit

01:11:07.329 --> 01:11:09.470
loads of trees. Obviously it's in the woods.

01:11:11.519 --> 01:11:16.279
and I don't know, some undulation put in there.

01:11:17.300 --> 01:11:20.140
The fun thing about those changes in all seriousness

01:11:20.140 --> 01:11:23.779
is that back in the day they used to make the

01:11:23.779 --> 01:11:27.250
changes covertly. to make it harder. So they'd

01:11:27.250 --> 01:11:29.529
lengthen the fairway to make a drive more likely

01:11:29.529 --> 01:11:32.770
to find the sand. Without telling anyone. Exactly.

01:11:33.010 --> 01:11:35.109
Yeah, yeah, which is kind of fun. But you can't

01:11:35.109 --> 01:11:36.449
get away with that in the modern day, right?

01:11:36.529 --> 01:11:37.409
Because the players get so many practice rounds.

01:11:37.409 --> 01:11:39.270
See, this is why you need your caddies. This

01:11:39.270 --> 01:11:41.590
is what you need your caddies for. Right, exactly.

01:11:41.630 --> 01:11:45.390
The sneaking in changes. But yeah, I mean, to

01:11:45.390 --> 01:11:47.270
sort of give it some context, the current course

01:11:47.270 --> 01:11:54.429
is currently 475 metres or in golfing. money

01:11:54.429 --> 01:11:57.989
525 yards longer than it was in 2001 and i guess

01:11:57.989 --> 01:11:59.670
that's to take into account the fact that guys

01:11:59.670 --> 01:12:03.010
are hitting absolute bombs now so yeah um yeah

01:12:03.010 --> 01:12:05.689
and equipment changes as well oh yeah good point

01:12:05.689 --> 01:12:09.949
technology etc um i think the first was the second

01:12:09.949 --> 01:12:13.529
most difficult hole on the course um so you know

01:12:13.529 --> 01:12:16.770
you're just in for a a tough start to the day

01:12:16.770 --> 01:12:20.529
uh no escaping that uh and then yeah a couple

01:12:20.529 --> 01:12:24.689
of the more famous features amen corner is the

01:12:24.689 --> 01:12:30.350
most famous part of the course, right? I mean,

01:12:30.390 --> 01:12:33.149
again, without wanting to annoy anyone north

01:12:33.149 --> 01:12:36.229
of the border, possibly the most iconic stretch

01:12:36.229 --> 01:12:41.470
in all of golf as well. Certainly in terms of

01:12:41.470 --> 01:12:43.470
consecutive holes. You could make the argument,

01:12:43.609 --> 01:12:47.250
couldn't you? But yeah, most think it's the 11th,

01:12:47.270 --> 01:12:50.189
12th and 13th. But in fact, it's the second shot

01:12:50.189 --> 01:12:54.350
at the 11th. all of the 12th, and then the first

01:12:54.350 --> 01:13:00.670
two shots of the 13th. Oh. Yeah. Well, I say

01:13:00.670 --> 01:13:03.470
that, right? That's unverified. But when I was

01:13:03.470 --> 01:13:05.369
looking it up and doing a little bit of digging

01:13:05.369 --> 01:13:07.449
and stuff, the origins of Amen Corner are a bit

01:13:07.449 --> 01:13:11.949
odd. I think it all stems back to the 1958 Masters.

01:13:12.750 --> 01:13:15.050
It was the site of an argument between Arnold

01:13:15.050 --> 01:13:18.880
Palmer and Ken Venturi. I think Palmer was allowed

01:13:18.880 --> 01:13:22.520
a drop or a leaf for a plug ball. Venturi was

01:13:22.520 --> 01:13:25.140
arguing with him, claiming that Palmer had not

01:13:25.140 --> 01:13:27.119
followed protocol. The ball was unplayable. I

01:13:27.119 --> 01:13:29.239
read about that today. Yeah, it's pretty funny.

01:13:29.539 --> 01:13:33.079
On the 12th? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then Venturi

01:13:33.079 --> 01:13:37.380
was leading at the time, I think, of the argument.

01:13:37.460 --> 01:13:39.539
But then Palmer went on to win. And then Sports

01:13:39.539 --> 01:13:43.520
Illustrated basically... came up with the phrase

01:13:43.520 --> 01:13:46.500
and then the origins of where it came from, like

01:13:46.500 --> 01:13:50.020
the Amen Corner, I think it's disputed, but it's

01:13:50.020 --> 01:13:53.100
sort of accepted that there was a jazz record

01:13:53.100 --> 01:13:58.920
in the 30s by a group led by Chicago's Mezro

01:13:58.920 --> 01:14:02.939
called Shouting in that Amen Corner. And the

01:14:02.939 --> 01:14:06.180
shouting, the arguing between Venturi and Palmer

01:14:06.180 --> 01:14:10.020
is what coined its name. Fair enough. There we

01:14:10.020 --> 01:14:14.720
are. Pretty weird, huh? And the Eisenhower tree?

01:14:15.060 --> 01:14:19.579
It's another... It was. Yeah, it was, yeah. Gone.

01:14:19.659 --> 01:14:25.220
Forever. Located on the 17th. Basically named

01:14:25.220 --> 01:14:29.060
after President Dwight D. Eisenhower, who some

01:14:29.060 --> 01:14:31.680
might know as a former president and a fairly

01:14:31.680 --> 01:14:34.359
influential bloke in World War II. He just kept

01:14:34.359 --> 01:14:38.159
hitting it. Fair enough. So they just called

01:14:38.159 --> 01:14:41.359
it the Eisenhower tree. The tree so many times.

01:14:41.819 --> 01:14:43.359
No, they just called it, they named it after

01:14:43.359 --> 01:14:46.760
him. And apparently, like in 1956 at a club meeting,

01:14:46.859 --> 01:14:49.800
he proposed that it get cut down. Because he

01:14:49.800 --> 01:14:54.300
kept hitting it. Yeah, exactly. Used his presidential

01:14:54.300 --> 01:14:57.890
influence. But the club's chairman, which was

01:14:57.890 --> 01:14:59.810
Clifford Roberts, who we've spoken about previously,

01:15:00.149 --> 01:15:03.210
didn't want to offend his friend and the president

01:15:03.210 --> 01:15:06.430
of the entire country. So instead of answering

01:15:06.430 --> 01:15:08.430
his question or even dealing with it, he just

01:15:08.430 --> 01:15:12.729
found an excuse to adjourn the meeting. You have

01:15:12.729 --> 01:15:18.630
no jurisdiction here. Exactly. And then I guess

01:15:18.630 --> 01:15:20.289
another one of the... I mean, there's a lot you

01:15:20.289 --> 01:15:23.850
could say about the course, Augusta, but the

01:15:23.850 --> 01:15:26.300
Sarazen Bridge is another pretty fun... point

01:15:26.300 --> 01:15:29.159
on the course uh it's a flat stone footbridge

01:15:29.159 --> 01:15:31.800
covering the dam to the left of the pond on the

01:15:31.800 --> 01:15:35.720
front of the 15th green and in the fourth round

01:15:35.720 --> 01:15:41.520
of the 54 edition um gene sarazen hold a double

01:15:41.520 --> 01:15:46.180
eagle uh to tie with craig wood and force a 36

01:15:46.180 --> 01:15:48.909
hole playoff which he then went on to to win

01:15:48.909 --> 01:15:54.310
um there you go 36 hole playoff yeah um yeah

01:15:54.310 --> 01:15:56.050
which he won but anyway the shot is referred

01:15:56.050 --> 01:15:59.869
to um as the shot heard around the world and

01:15:59.869 --> 01:16:04.130
i think it's because it was a forward from 235

01:16:04.130 --> 01:16:09.489
yards what he hold it yeah yeah like second shot

01:16:09.489 --> 01:16:14.310
on a par five maybe it was anyway it's like you

01:16:14.310 --> 01:16:17.439
know it's like an insane shot um and it just

01:16:17.439 --> 01:16:20.579
yeah just dropped man so you got you got bridge

01:16:20.579 --> 01:16:22.819
named after him that seems fair enough that seems

01:16:22.819 --> 01:16:25.380
fair yeah well we mentioned eisenhower earlier

01:16:25.380 --> 01:16:28.340
and we always talk about the war so you know

01:16:28.340 --> 01:16:33.680
always 100 % of the time so far well i mean i

01:16:33.680 --> 01:16:36.600
say always not in the context of um the almanac

01:16:36.600 --> 01:16:39.739
the podcast yeah yeah but in the in the context

01:16:39.739 --> 01:16:43.699
of me and you chatting uh generally um and i

01:16:43.699 --> 01:16:46.939
do have a fun war story If you'd like to hear

01:16:46.939 --> 01:16:50.000
it. You've got a story? Yeah. Excellent. You

01:16:50.000 --> 01:16:52.939
want to hear it? Yeah, go on. Why not? We've

01:16:52.939 --> 01:16:56.840
got time. We've got time. All right. Well, our

01:16:56.840 --> 01:17:00.939
hero this time is Lloyd Eugene Mangrum, also

01:17:00.939 --> 01:17:04.239
nicknamed The Icicle. Nice. Joined the PGA Tour

01:17:04.239 --> 01:17:08.079
in 1937. Went on to win 36 events. Good player.

01:17:08.859 --> 01:17:11.699
He also played on four Ryder Cup teams in 47,

01:17:11.939 --> 01:17:17.430
49, 51, 53. On the last occasion that I just

01:17:17.430 --> 01:17:19.109
mentioned there, he was actually playing as a

01:17:19.109 --> 01:17:22.390
playing captain of the Ryder Cup team. Oh, cool.

01:17:22.569 --> 01:17:26.750
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Decent career. Anyway, Lloyd,

01:17:26.970 --> 01:17:30.289
what was his relationship with the Masters? So

01:17:30.289 --> 01:17:34.449
he finished in the top 10 at the Masters 10 consecutive

01:17:34.449 --> 01:17:37.590
years, and he never won it, but he entered in

01:17:37.590 --> 01:17:40.770
the history books when he shot 64 in the opening

01:17:40.770 --> 01:17:44.140
round in 1940. which was basically a Masters

01:17:44.140 --> 01:17:46.479
record at the time, and it stood for 46 years.

01:17:46.859 --> 01:17:50.539
So that's what he was famous for in the context

01:17:50.539 --> 01:17:55.180
of the Masters, just shooting unbelievably low

01:17:55.180 --> 01:18:01.239
scores. But Butch Jack, he wasn't just being

01:18:01.239 --> 01:18:03.380
shot at, or he wasn't just shooting, rather,

01:18:03.460 --> 01:18:05.979
on the course. He was being shot at just a few

01:18:05.979 --> 01:18:10.279
years later. He actually joined General Patton's

01:18:10.279 --> 01:18:14.949
Third Army. as America joined the war. And the

01:18:14.949 --> 01:18:17.689
1942 Masters was the last until the end of World

01:18:17.689 --> 01:18:19.409
War II, and it was only a couple of months after

01:18:19.409 --> 01:18:22.869
Pearl Harbor. Mangrum wasn't the only guy to

01:18:22.869 --> 01:18:26.329
serve. Bobby Jones, Ben Hogan, Sam Sneed, I think,

01:18:26.350 --> 01:18:29.069
all joined. And Bobby Jones became an intelligence

01:18:29.069 --> 01:18:31.850
officer in the Army Air Corps. And I think he

01:18:31.850 --> 01:18:34.409
might have been involved in the planning for

01:18:34.409 --> 01:18:38.270
D -Day and landed in France on D -Day plus one.

01:18:38.489 --> 01:18:41.039
But anyway. I digress because there are obviously

01:18:41.039 --> 01:18:44.680
many stories one could talk about in respect

01:18:44.680 --> 01:18:47.899
of World War II. But our guy Lloyd, let's get

01:18:47.899 --> 01:18:51.600
back to him. He was sent to the Ardennes, which...

01:18:51.600 --> 01:18:57.039
Bomb draw. The trees are exploding. Yeah, exactly.

01:18:57.899 --> 01:18:59.659
You know, anyone who's seen Band of Brothers.

01:19:00.739 --> 01:19:02.500
And he was involved in the Battle of the Bulge

01:19:02.500 --> 01:19:04.619
and he was injured there and he received a Purple

01:19:04.619 --> 01:19:08.739
Heart and he won four battle stars. But when

01:19:08.739 --> 01:19:15.039
he got home, and I think this makes this story

01:19:15.039 --> 01:19:18.079
all the better, really. When he got home, he

01:19:18.079 --> 01:19:20.760
went on to win his one and only major, which

01:19:20.760 --> 01:19:23.859
was the US Open in 1946. And he did tie second

01:19:23.859 --> 01:19:27.659
again in 49 in the Masters. Very nice. Yeah,

01:19:27.760 --> 01:19:30.880
Lloyd Mangrum from Augusta to the Bulge and back,

01:19:31.100 --> 01:19:35.520
which I think is a really cool story. Yeah, that

01:19:35.520 --> 01:19:41.829
is cool. The Bulge features again in Masters

01:19:41.829 --> 01:19:45.170
history. That's where General Dwight Eisenhower,

01:19:45.289 --> 01:19:50.189
as he was known at the time, was. When he was

01:19:50.189 --> 01:19:51.609
introduced to the bloke, they would eventually

01:19:51.609 --> 01:19:56.149
go on to introduce him to the club, which I think

01:19:56.149 --> 01:19:59.670
is a really weird symbiosis. It was a journalist.

01:19:59.710 --> 01:20:01.829
I can't remember the newspaper he was working

01:20:01.829 --> 01:20:05.170
for. I say he was a journalist. He might not

01:20:05.170 --> 01:20:06.390
have been a journalist, but he was working for

01:20:06.390 --> 01:20:11.630
a newspaper. Yeah. And he had a reason to meet

01:20:11.630 --> 01:20:14.390
Eisenhower during the war, which is all to do

01:20:14.390 --> 01:20:16.630
with regulations in France, to do with commerce,

01:20:16.810 --> 01:20:20.630
relatively dry stuff. But the two guys got on

01:20:20.630 --> 01:20:23.369
really well. And then when, I think Eisenhower

01:20:23.369 --> 01:20:25.729
goes on to become the president of Columbia University

01:20:25.729 --> 01:20:28.069
and he leaves the army to take up that position.

01:20:28.890 --> 01:20:33.239
And he has a... career gap for want of a better

01:20:33.239 --> 01:20:36.380
phrase probably just taking some time off after

01:20:36.380 --> 01:20:41.220
winning World War II and the guy he met essentially

01:20:41.220 --> 01:20:43.760
helps him write his memoirs and then as a present

01:20:43.760 --> 01:20:47.699
or a thank you or you know what have you invites

01:20:47.699 --> 01:20:53.220
the future president for a golfing away day and

01:20:53.220 --> 01:20:56.930
takes him to Yeah, I was going to say, where

01:20:56.930 --> 01:21:01.369
would that be? Exactly. Takes him down to Augusta.

01:21:01.890 --> 01:21:05.710
And yeah, there we are. That's how Eisenhower

01:21:05.710 --> 01:21:09.090
became familiar with the Masters. Well, not just

01:21:09.090 --> 01:21:12.689
the Masters. Very nice. But yeah, those are the

01:21:12.689 --> 01:21:14.689
World War II stories I have for you this week.

01:21:15.189 --> 01:21:18.470
Jack, I'm sure you'll have more for us next week.

01:21:19.149 --> 01:21:22.310
But yeah, anything else you wanted to raise?

01:21:25.240 --> 01:21:26.819
Eisenhower is an interesting one because obviously

01:21:26.819 --> 01:21:34.760
he became president in 1953, 1961. He never attended

01:21:34.760 --> 01:21:37.319
the Masters while he was president because he

01:21:37.319 --> 01:21:39.739
didn't want to be too much of a distraction,

01:21:39.859 --> 01:21:42.359
essentially. But he always made sure he was there

01:21:42.359 --> 01:21:43.859
on the Monday to play around with the winner.

01:21:44.060 --> 01:21:47.600
Is that right? Yeah, one of the perks of being

01:21:47.600 --> 01:21:50.770
president. But yeah, his love for the Masters

01:21:50.770 --> 01:21:53.010
was so entrenched that the Major League Baseball

01:21:53.010 --> 01:21:55.909
season was shortened by eight games and the season

01:21:55.909 --> 01:21:59.930
started later to allow Eisenhower to both partake

01:21:59.930 --> 01:22:03.630
in his traditions around the Masters and throw

01:22:03.630 --> 01:22:05.890
the ceremonial first pitch of the Major League

01:22:05.890 --> 01:22:09.449
Baseball season. Jeez, the influence. It's nice

01:22:09.449 --> 01:22:16.729
being Prez. Yeah, that is... Yeah. Nice for some,

01:22:16.750 --> 01:22:22.239
isn't it? That's unreal. But yeah, I don't know.

01:22:22.340 --> 01:22:25.979
Is there anything else to discuss on the Masters?

01:22:26.539 --> 01:22:28.880
I think the only thing we need to finish on is

01:22:28.880 --> 01:22:32.500
I think we need to discuss a couple of the big

01:22:32.500 --> 01:22:34.239
names in a bit more depth. I think we've already

01:22:34.239 --> 01:22:37.579
mentioned them, but I think you and me need to

01:22:37.579 --> 01:22:39.680
decide once and for all, right here, right now,

01:22:39.739 --> 01:22:43.399
who the greatest golfer of all time is. Not just

01:22:43.399 --> 01:22:45.899
the greatest player at the Masters. Let's use

01:22:45.899 --> 01:22:48.180
this opportunity. Let's talk about who the greatest

01:22:48.180 --> 01:22:50.319
golfer of all time is. I would like to propose

01:22:50.319 --> 01:22:54.199
some nominees. In fact, I'm going to keep this

01:22:54.199 --> 01:22:56.819
short and sweet. I'm going to propose two nominees.

01:22:57.699 --> 01:23:01.420
We know who these are. You say this to anyone,

01:23:01.560 --> 01:23:03.359
there's only two people in contention for this

01:23:03.359 --> 01:23:06.180
title. It is the golden bear himself, Jack Nicklaus,

01:23:06.300 --> 01:23:10.640
or the man who changed the sport. I don't think

01:23:10.640 --> 01:23:12.880
either of us would be as interested in golf as

01:23:12.880 --> 01:23:16.100
we are if it wasn't for Tiger Woods. Tiger Woods...

01:23:16.350 --> 01:23:21.590
Not only was he brilliant, but he was very marketable,

01:23:21.670 --> 01:23:23.449
obviously. He was very unlike anything we've

01:23:23.449 --> 01:23:25.569
ever seen before. And one of the most amazing

01:23:25.569 --> 01:23:29.270
things about Tiger Woods is the Tiger effect,

01:23:29.409 --> 01:23:32.529
as they call it. The effect that he had on the

01:23:32.529 --> 01:23:35.550
sponsorship in the game, the money going into

01:23:35.550 --> 01:23:37.970
the game, the earnings that the players made.

01:23:38.250 --> 01:23:40.630
It's ridiculous. Someone did a study on it, and

01:23:40.630 --> 01:23:44.470
as I mentioned before, between... 1997 and 2008

01:23:44.470 --> 01:23:46.970
no one made more money on the tour as you would

01:23:46.970 --> 01:23:49.310
imagine than tiger woods he was full dominant

01:23:49.310 --> 01:23:52.189
in that time he won 14 majors i think in that

01:23:52.189 --> 01:23:55.710
period um 14 of the 15 he's won uh we're obviously

01:23:55.710 --> 01:23:59.550
one during that period um just the 2019 one otherwise

01:23:59.550 --> 01:24:03.310
and uh he made just shy of 100 million dollars

01:24:03.310 --> 01:24:07.770
um from the tour and uh next on the list was

01:24:07.770 --> 01:24:12.359
um one vj singh who i love Vijay Singh who I

01:24:12.359 --> 01:24:15.579
think won about 69 million dollars during that

01:24:15.579 --> 01:24:17.880
period if I remember the numbers correctly someone

01:24:17.880 --> 01:24:19.920
did a study and worked out that if it wasn't

01:24:19.920 --> 01:24:22.420
for Tiger Woods Vijay Singh would have made a

01:24:22.420 --> 01:24:25.659
not paltry but a much less significant 33 million

01:24:25.659 --> 01:24:28.640
dollars during that period Tiger more than doubled

01:24:28.640 --> 01:24:31.859
his earnings by the amount of eyes that he turned

01:24:31.859 --> 01:24:34.500
upon golf and the amount of people you got playing

01:24:34.500 --> 01:24:37.420
golf and if you think about it the video games

01:24:37.420 --> 01:24:42.079
the the nike deals the merchandise and just just

01:24:42.079 --> 01:24:45.340
the fact we used to love the aura mate like we

01:24:45.340 --> 01:24:47.640
were we were 10 year old kids watching golf because

01:24:47.640 --> 01:24:50.500
of tiger woods and you could not name a single

01:24:50.500 --> 01:24:52.359
other golfer in the world you knew tiger woods

01:24:52.359 --> 01:24:56.420
was um so yeah as they say tiger woods he'd beat

01:24:56.420 --> 01:25:00.050
you but he'd make you rich I mean, am I supposed

01:25:00.050 --> 01:25:02.029
to try and come up with a counter -argument to

01:25:02.029 --> 01:25:07.710
that? Because that's difficult. I've actually...

01:25:07.710 --> 01:25:11.529
Ben, please. I'm prepared. I've got a pros and

01:25:11.529 --> 01:25:15.550
cons list for Jack Nicklaus and CycleWords. I'll

01:25:15.550 --> 01:25:18.569
take over from here. Don't you worry. I know

01:25:18.569 --> 01:25:22.369
some of the basics. You listen to this and you

01:25:22.369 --> 01:25:25.050
make a decision. Because I genuinely put my hand

01:25:25.050 --> 01:25:26.409
on my heart and say I think you can go either

01:25:26.409 --> 01:25:28.840
way with this. So Jack Nicklaus, the case for

01:25:28.840 --> 01:25:32.739
the majors. Jack Nicklaus won 18 major championships.

01:25:32.779 --> 01:25:34.960
That is the gold standard. No one's beaten it.

01:25:35.000 --> 01:25:37.500
And probably with the levels in today's game,

01:25:37.600 --> 01:25:40.260
it would be likely no one is ever going to beat

01:25:40.260 --> 01:25:42.199
it. There's too many good players nowadays. Tiger's

01:25:42.199 --> 01:25:46.119
three back? Yeah, Tiger 15. So 19 runners up

01:25:46.119 --> 01:25:47.800
as well to go with that. He was in the mix for

01:25:47.800 --> 01:25:51.760
decades. So his longevity, he won majors across

01:25:51.760 --> 01:25:57.020
24 years, 1962 to 1986. And his 1986 Masters

01:25:57.020 --> 01:25:59.399
win being one of the most iconic moments in golf

01:25:59.399 --> 01:26:02.039
history. His strength of mind, he was known for

01:26:02.039 --> 01:26:04.159
his composure, his course management, his clutch

01:26:04.159 --> 01:26:07.739
putting under pressure. He out -fought his opponents,

01:26:07.939 --> 01:26:09.899
not just outplayed them. And he played in an

01:26:09.899 --> 01:26:11.399
era of change as well. So he played against,

01:26:11.619 --> 01:26:14.460
at the start of his career. the likes of Arnold

01:26:14.460 --> 01:26:18.640
Palmer, Gary Player, and by the end of his career,

01:26:18.859 --> 01:26:23.920
Tom Watson, Lee Trevino, fantastic players, but

01:26:23.920 --> 01:26:25.380
he consistently came up top. Obviously, Sebi

01:26:25.380 --> 01:26:28.100
Ballesteros as well, consistently coming out

01:26:28.100 --> 01:26:31.739
on top against these players as Spanderas. The

01:26:31.739 --> 01:26:35.319
case against him, so he didn't face the global

01:26:35.319 --> 01:26:38.359
depth of talent like Tiger did. That's a good

01:26:38.359 --> 01:26:42.539
point. Golf has become, yeah. Golf was very much

01:26:42.539 --> 01:26:46.539
Britain a little bit, Australia and South Africa

01:26:46.539 --> 01:26:48.960
a little bit, obviously, certain players. But

01:26:48.960 --> 01:26:52.479
in America, it was very heavily American. You

01:26:52.479 --> 01:26:54.460
didn't get the European players playing at quite

01:26:54.460 --> 01:26:57.960
the same level. You didn't get the Asian players

01:26:57.960 --> 01:27:00.500
and African players and players from all over

01:27:00.500 --> 01:27:03.920
the world that obviously exist in today's game.

01:27:05.100 --> 01:27:08.220
So, yeah. Also, fitness and athleticism weren't

01:27:08.220 --> 01:27:09.859
quite as big a deal there. You obviously had

01:27:09.859 --> 01:27:12.449
people. like Gary Player, who were incredibly

01:27:12.449 --> 01:27:16.449
fit, and you had other players who were less

01:27:16.449 --> 01:27:20.250
so. It wasn't quite the same as it is now. So

01:27:20.250 --> 01:27:22.590
that's the case for and against the Golden Bear.

01:27:23.270 --> 01:27:27.289
Tiger Woods, the case for dominance. So Tiger

01:27:27.289 --> 01:27:30.109
changed the game. At his peak, no one was close

01:27:30.109 --> 01:27:33.109
to him. He's the only player ever to have held

01:27:33.109 --> 01:27:35.510
all four majors at the same time. In the year

01:27:35.510 --> 01:27:38.399
2000, he won four in a row. Not in the same year,

01:27:38.439 --> 01:27:40.340
but across two years, he won four in a row. Is

01:27:40.340 --> 01:27:42.079
that the Tiger Slam? He was a holder. The Tiger

01:27:42.079 --> 01:27:44.699
Slam. He was a holder of all four at one time.

01:27:45.039 --> 01:27:48.460
He won the 2000 US Open by 15 shots. And as we

01:27:48.460 --> 01:27:52.460
mentioned, he won the 1997 Masters by 12 shots.

01:27:52.760 --> 01:27:55.180
He wasn't winning. He was obliterating people

01:27:55.180 --> 01:27:58.960
at that point. He's tied for the most tall wins

01:27:58.960 --> 01:28:02.500
ever, 82. Obviously, there is a chance, a small

01:28:02.500 --> 01:28:04.619
chance, a chance that he might come and beat

01:28:04.619 --> 01:28:08.760
that. he's obviously had a lot of injuries and

01:28:08.760 --> 01:28:11.880
he's got 15 majors so he's only he had a legion

01:28:11.880 --> 01:28:16.260
a shot of beating Nicholas's 18 before injuries

01:28:16.260 --> 01:28:19.560
and certain life choices derailed him somewhat

01:28:19.560 --> 01:28:24.920
and obviously he didn't just a flawed genius

01:28:24.920 --> 01:28:29.220
yeah transcendence he didn't just dominate he

01:28:29.220 --> 01:28:31.720
brought golf to the masses he's the reason prize

01:28:31.720 --> 01:28:34.079
money exploded he's the reason kids of all backgrounds

01:28:34.079 --> 01:28:36.159
took up golf there's going to be people who are

01:28:36.159 --> 01:28:38.399
in the pj tour now who are only in the pj talks

01:28:38.399 --> 01:28:40.680
they saw tiger woods on golf uh tiger was playing

01:28:40.680 --> 01:28:44.220
golf on tv age you know 10 when they were 997

01:28:44.220 --> 01:28:48.159
2005 that kind of time and fell in love with

01:28:48.159 --> 01:28:51.560
the sport because of tiger uh and he also the

01:28:51.560 --> 01:28:54.039
strength of the field he faced a globalized ultra

01:28:54.039 --> 01:28:57.199
comparative bunch of athletes not just golfers

01:28:57.199 --> 01:28:59.699
a proper athlete by the time he was playing and

01:28:59.699 --> 01:29:01.420
everyone raised their game to try and beat him

01:29:01.420 --> 01:29:03.439
and technology kept improving to try and match

01:29:03.439 --> 01:29:07.140
him and the most at that point failed now the

01:29:07.140 --> 01:29:09.520
case against him did he make the most of his

01:29:09.520 --> 01:29:12.359
talent you could say um he's obviously had injuries

01:29:12.359 --> 01:29:14.420
you could argue whether or not that's his fault

01:29:14.420 --> 01:29:16.760
he's had consistency issues later in his career

01:29:16.760 --> 01:29:21.399
and of course what happened in 2009 2010 infidelity

01:29:21.399 --> 01:29:25.100
issues um being on the front page of newspaper

01:29:25.100 --> 01:29:28.739
not the back pages um it it all is things you

01:29:28.739 --> 01:29:31.020
can hold against him i was gonna ask i was gonna

01:29:31.020 --> 01:29:35.060
ask sorry to interrupt but yeah go ahead to what

01:29:35.060 --> 01:29:37.659
extent would you place an emphasis or a weight

01:29:37.659 --> 01:29:39.720
on the personal lives because jack nicholas is

01:29:39.720 --> 01:29:43.300
undoubtedly a really nice guy um and i'm not

01:29:43.300 --> 01:29:45.100
saying tiger's not a nice guy but tiger's obviously

01:29:45.100 --> 01:29:47.659
had his fair share of controversy is that relevant

01:29:49.199 --> 01:29:52.399
It depends. I mean, if your argument is who is

01:29:52.399 --> 01:29:55.760
the most talented, maybe not. If the argument

01:29:55.760 --> 01:29:59.560
is who is the overall best, maybe it is. Because

01:29:59.560 --> 01:30:04.420
if Tiger had been in a better place in his actions

01:30:04.420 --> 01:30:07.699
and his mental state and his decisions he made

01:30:07.699 --> 01:30:11.119
in 2009, 2010 kind of time, would he have gone

01:30:11.119 --> 01:30:14.479
on to win majors in 2009, 2010, 2011? And would

01:30:14.479 --> 01:30:17.479
he be... I mean, if he had done, there'd be no

01:30:17.479 --> 01:30:19.949
debate, I don't think. I think it would be Tiger

01:30:19.949 --> 01:30:21.649
all the way. I think the fact that there is a

01:30:21.649 --> 01:30:25.569
debate is on account of that plus injuries. I

01:30:25.569 --> 01:30:28.130
mean, can he take injuries into account? Don't

01:30:28.130 --> 01:30:30.630
know. It's why it's a debate. It's fun. It's

01:30:30.630 --> 01:30:34.350
fun. You can also say about Tiger, he never really

01:30:34.350 --> 01:30:36.210
dominated the game because of injuries, because

01:30:36.210 --> 01:30:38.010
of obviously the things we've mentioned. He never

01:30:38.010 --> 01:30:40.569
dominated the game into his 40s like Nicholas

01:30:40.569 --> 01:30:42.350
did. Although, of course, he did win the 2019

01:30:42.350 --> 01:30:47.050
Masters when he was 43, 42, 43 at that point.

01:30:47.859 --> 01:30:51.760
So yeah, there you go. So if your measures longevity,

01:30:52.079 --> 01:30:53.960
major championships, it's probably Jack. If it's

01:30:53.960 --> 01:30:55.899
dominance, cultural impact, peak performance,

01:30:56.140 --> 01:30:58.880
it's probably Tiger. So what do you reckon? You

01:30:58.880 --> 01:31:02.260
make the decision, Ben. I'm on authority on this

01:31:02.260 --> 01:31:06.720
stuff. And what I say is clearly therefore binding

01:31:06.720 --> 01:31:11.300
on everyone. So yeah, no pressure. Such is the

01:31:11.300 --> 01:31:22.359
significance of my opinion. I think it's Tiger

01:31:22.359 --> 01:31:25.279
on balance. I knew you were going to say that.

01:31:25.539 --> 01:31:30.380
Yeah, I know. It's hard to remove yourself from

01:31:30.380 --> 01:31:32.640
everything you've experienced. The modernisation

01:31:32.640 --> 01:31:35.720
of the game, the professionalisation of the game,

01:31:35.939 --> 01:31:39.159
the money and the increased scrutiny and pressure

01:31:39.159 --> 01:31:44.970
that comes with that. The extracurricular, and

01:31:44.970 --> 01:31:47.170
I don't mean his personal circumstances, I mean

01:31:47.170 --> 01:31:51.029
brand awareness, sponsorship, obligations, all

01:31:51.029 --> 01:31:54.090
of that stuff, carrying that burden, plus the

01:31:54.090 --> 01:31:57.130
fact that he's gone past the guys from the bygone

01:31:57.130 --> 01:32:01.850
era on PGA wins. He's in touching distance on

01:32:01.850 --> 01:32:05.409
the slams, if not beyond all of them except one.

01:32:05.670 --> 01:32:09.170
Yeah, he won more, like you say, internationalization

01:32:09.170 --> 01:32:15.020
of the game. And he's an athlete. Like, I'm not

01:32:15.020 --> 01:32:17.899
saying that the guys in the 60s, 70s, you know,

01:32:17.899 --> 01:32:21.119
and perhaps even 80s weren't athletes per se,

01:32:21.260 --> 01:32:24.220
but, like, there's a requirement now. I mean,

01:32:24.239 --> 01:32:25.920
you only have to look at, like, full swing or

01:32:25.920 --> 01:32:29.460
something. These dudes are, like, you know, they

01:32:29.460 --> 01:32:32.920
can bench, like, football players, like, you

01:32:32.920 --> 01:32:35.699
know, American football players or, I mean, I'm

01:32:35.699 --> 01:32:37.359
obviously being slightly hyperbolic there, but,

01:32:37.420 --> 01:32:42.020
like, they're in the gym. smashing balls further

01:32:42.020 --> 01:32:44.899
than anyone's hit before like but they've still

01:32:44.899 --> 01:32:47.180
retained that precision and that accuracy and

01:32:47.180 --> 01:32:49.479
that finesse that's required in the short game

01:32:49.479 --> 01:32:52.659
uh i just yeah i think when you put it in that

01:32:52.659 --> 01:32:54.880
context and who you who you have to beat in order

01:32:54.880 --> 01:32:59.319
to rack up those wins it's probably gotta be

01:32:59.319 --> 01:33:01.399
tiger and that's not to diminish the fact that

01:33:01.680 --> 01:33:04.340
Jack Nicklaus has you know we read out his stats

01:33:04.340 --> 01:33:06.220
in his career some of his career highlights earlier

01:33:06.220 --> 01:33:08.920
like you know he's incredible yeah yeah like

01:33:08.920 --> 01:33:11.239
to say Tiger's the best is not to say that Jack

01:33:11.239 --> 01:33:15.680
Nicklaus isn't nearly the very best do you know

01:33:15.680 --> 01:33:19.340
what I mean like it's not yeah the debate doesn't

01:33:19.340 --> 01:33:22.720
need to descend into the likes that you see in

01:33:22.720 --> 01:33:24.399
football where it's like you're great or shit

01:33:24.399 --> 01:33:30.310
like yeah I mean Can we just make that sort of

01:33:30.310 --> 01:33:34.270
the mantra of this podcast? Exactly. But yeah,

01:33:34.310 --> 01:33:37.909
anyway, I don't want to bleat on about it. I'd

01:33:37.909 --> 01:33:40.609
say Tiger. Those are the reasons. I would agree

01:33:40.609 --> 01:33:43.470
with you. I think, obviously, this is completely

01:33:43.470 --> 01:33:45.789
subjective, but I think if you were to pluck

01:33:45.789 --> 01:33:48.789
one and put it in the other era, notwithstanding

01:33:48.789 --> 01:33:52.609
the fact that certain issues would arrive from

01:33:52.609 --> 01:33:57.329
placing Tiger into 1962, but I think if you were

01:33:57.329 --> 01:34:00.159
to do that... I think Tiger dominates more and

01:34:00.159 --> 01:34:01.800
I think Nicholas dominates less, simply because

01:34:01.800 --> 01:34:04.539
of the competition. Not because either of them

01:34:04.539 --> 01:34:06.079
are going to be the worst players in those tiers.

01:34:06.319 --> 01:34:08.819
And perhaps, obviously, with the better conditioning

01:34:08.819 --> 01:34:12.460
and better equipment, Nicholas raises game. So

01:34:12.460 --> 01:34:14.779
maybe that wouldn't be the case. It's an immeasurable

01:34:14.779 --> 01:34:17.640
variable, isn't it? It is. I mean, all of it's

01:34:17.640 --> 01:34:20.520
immeasurable because their careers didn't overlap.

01:34:20.680 --> 01:34:22.539
But I will tell you actually one thing, and this

01:34:22.539 --> 01:34:26.640
is going slightly off topic. Some of the most

01:34:26.640 --> 01:34:29.640
legendary... um achievements of nicholas's career

01:34:29.640 --> 01:34:33.560
um the 1978 open championship at san andrews

01:34:33.560 --> 01:34:37.579
which completed his third time over um grand

01:34:37.579 --> 01:34:41.060
slam so that was his third uh open championship

01:34:41.060 --> 01:34:42.819
he already won the other three at least three

01:34:42.819 --> 01:34:45.539
times so that was his third only him and tiger

01:34:45.539 --> 01:34:48.560
have done three um three times over all the major

01:34:48.560 --> 01:34:51.239
championships um that was how he sealed it so

01:34:51.239 --> 01:34:52.939
that tournament there as well as seve winning

01:34:52.939 --> 01:34:56.689
in 1983 as well as Jack Nicklaus winning in 1986,

01:34:56.770 --> 01:35:00.350
and then Tiger Woods winning in 1997, all of

01:35:00.350 --> 01:35:02.750
those events had the same runner -up in them.

01:35:02.930 --> 01:35:04.750
So if you're talking about bridging the eras,

01:35:04.829 --> 01:35:08.069
a man named Tom Kite was runner -up in all of

01:35:08.069 --> 01:35:11.510
those tournaments. Somewhat always a bridesmaid,

01:35:11.510 --> 01:35:14.470
but he was... I just want to talk about him quickly

01:35:14.470 --> 01:35:18.470
because I really like this guy. He was probably...

01:35:18.470 --> 01:35:20.369
He wasn't flashy. He was methodical, analytical,

01:35:20.590 --> 01:35:24.510
probably even arguably geeky. He was one of the

01:35:24.510 --> 01:35:26.630
first players to embrace sort of psychology in

01:35:26.630 --> 01:35:28.810
golf. He wore glasses when he was playing it.

01:35:29.430 --> 01:35:32.670
He basically, he popularized the use of an extra

01:35:32.670 --> 01:35:36.510
wedge, a lob wedge. So he sort of tried new things

01:35:36.510 --> 01:35:40.649
out. And he, he, it was 1992, bear in mind, obviously

01:35:40.649 --> 01:35:44.170
1978 when he was playing Nicholas runner up there.

01:35:44.760 --> 01:35:47.220
runner up in a lot of events after that 1992

01:35:47.220 --> 01:35:50.479
he won his one and only major championship in

01:35:50.479 --> 01:35:53.319
the wind and the rain at the US Open at Pebble

01:35:53.319 --> 01:35:57.359
Beach and the field collapsing around him Yeah,

01:35:57.359 --> 01:35:59.600
I know. He stayed steady. He stayed smart. He

01:35:59.600 --> 01:36:01.760
stayed unflappable. Hallmarks of his career.

01:36:01.939 --> 01:36:04.720
It was a gritty, well overdue reward for a career

01:36:04.720 --> 01:36:08.619
that was built on consistency. He won nine million

01:36:08.619 --> 01:36:11.039
in his career, which was still a big total at

01:36:11.039 --> 01:36:13.979
that point before Tiger came along and was a

01:36:13.979 --> 01:36:15.859
respected Ryder Cup player and the Ryder Cup

01:36:15.859 --> 01:36:17.779
captain as well. And he was inducted into the

01:36:17.779 --> 01:36:20.500
World Golf Hall of Fame. So, yes, he wore the

01:36:20.500 --> 01:36:22.739
rides made dress maybe one too many times, but

01:36:22.739 --> 01:36:24.520
he eventually got his walk down the aisle. So

01:36:24.520 --> 01:36:27.100
there we go. I just want to end by mentioning

01:36:27.100 --> 01:36:29.920
him just because he, I don't know, he tickled

01:36:29.920 --> 01:36:35.319
my fancy. He is someone who I admire. That's

01:36:35.319 --> 01:36:37.000
a nice way to end it, man. Like, it's not all

01:36:37.000 --> 01:36:39.619
about the guys that get the green jacket. It's,

01:36:39.619 --> 01:36:43.359
you know, people like Tom Kite as well. They

01:36:43.359 --> 01:36:45.579
all play a part in the story and Tom Kite played.

01:36:45.899 --> 01:36:48.579
Plenty of parts because he was there for all

01:36:48.579 --> 01:36:51.180
of those big majors, all those big events in

01:36:51.180 --> 01:36:55.439
these legends' lives. Jack Nicklaus, Tiger Woods,

01:36:55.479 --> 01:36:59.560
and Savé as well. Nice. Well, okay, let's leave

01:36:59.560 --> 01:37:04.500
the Masters there. Starts this weekend, obviously,

01:37:04.600 --> 01:37:07.939
or this Thursday, rather. Wednesday with the

01:37:07.939 --> 01:37:12.470
Par 3 contest. True, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I

01:37:12.470 --> 01:37:15.289
think if you are interested in watching it, if

01:37:15.289 --> 01:37:18.770
you stuck it out this long and you are interested

01:37:18.770 --> 01:37:23.130
in watching it, you can find it on Sky here in

01:37:23.130 --> 01:37:27.350
the UK. If you have Sky Sports, the BBC will

01:37:27.350 --> 01:37:29.250
be showing highlights as well, but it will also

01:37:29.250 --> 01:37:32.130
be on their website. Five Live, Islander Sky.

01:37:33.069 --> 01:37:36.689
Canada is CTV, which I'm not familiar with, so

01:37:36.689 --> 01:37:40.489
forgive me. And then the US is, I think, going

01:37:40.489 --> 01:37:46.090
to be CBS and ESPN? It's usually CBS, I think.

01:37:46.210 --> 01:37:48.729
Yeah, they might both have rights. I don't know.

01:37:48.850 --> 01:37:51.289
But have a look. Yeah, you guys in America will

01:37:51.289 --> 01:37:56.510
know better than us if you are even with us and

01:37:56.510 --> 01:38:02.550
listening. Cool. We've had a few listeners from.

01:38:03.020 --> 01:38:04.520
different parts of the world already which is

01:38:04.520 --> 01:38:07.039
nice thank you if you have been listening yeah

01:38:07.039 --> 01:38:11.180
um it is hugely appreciated and um yeah i hope

01:38:11.180 --> 01:38:13.619
i hope you're enjoying so thank you very much

01:38:13.619 --> 01:38:17.600
and where are we going for episode three jack

01:38:17.600 --> 01:38:20.880
not not not far especially for me um just down

01:38:20.880 --> 01:38:25.500
the road for me um we are in sheffield next week

01:38:25.500 --> 01:38:28.680
for the world snooker championship nice so for

01:38:28.680 --> 01:38:31.640
for anyone who's not aware of snooker which i

01:38:31.640 --> 01:38:34.840
think will be it's certainly a british british

01:38:34.840 --> 01:38:37.560
centric sport um we will teach you about it and

01:38:37.560 --> 01:38:39.140
we will teach you about the history of this event

01:38:39.140 --> 01:38:41.260
and there's one thing you can say about snooker

01:38:41.260 --> 01:38:46.279
it's never short of a character very true all

01:38:46.279 --> 01:38:49.779
right well um let's leave it there uh and we'll

01:38:49.779 --> 01:38:53.539
we'll join again the world snooker champs perfect

01:38:54.189 --> 01:38:57.329
Well, I'll see you there. Bye, Jack. Bye, Ben.

01:39:03.989 --> 01:39:06.189
Once again, thank you for listening. This was

01:39:06.189 --> 01:39:08.550
the Sporting Almanac podcast. If you enjoyed

01:39:08.550 --> 01:39:11.010
us, give us a like, a subscribe, or a rating

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01:39:17.800 --> 01:39:20.520
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01:39:23.039 --> 01:39:25.560
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01:39:25.560 --> 01:39:27.479
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01:39:27.479 --> 01:39:30.319
or hearing any cool stories you've got. We'll

01:39:30.319 --> 01:39:32.420
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01:39:32.760 --> 01:39:34.680
Sport is nothing without the stories that make

01:39:34.680 --> 01:39:35.600
it. Goodbye.