WEBVTT 00:00:11.820 --> 00:00:14.220 Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. This 00:00:14.220 --> 00:00:17.699 is John Marchiando and this is another episode 00:00:17.699 --> 00:00:21.379 of the Two Guys and a PLC podcast. I'm joined 00:00:21.379 --> 00:00:24.559 by my brother from another mother slash colleague 00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:28.589 slash buddy. There you go. That's a cool intro. 00:00:28.710 --> 00:00:31.030 Dave Gutshall, good morning, good afternoon, 00:00:31.109 --> 00:00:33.710 good evening, y 'all. Just a reminder, this is 00:00:33.710 --> 00:00:36.890 for entertainment purposes only, and all opinions 00:00:36.890 --> 00:00:40.109 expressed by ourselves, our guests, are their 00:00:40.109 --> 00:00:43.289 own, our own, and are not reflective of our day 00:00:43.289 --> 00:00:45.850 jobs or reflective of anything else other than 00:00:45.850 --> 00:00:50.009 our personal opinion. So, with that... Yeah, 00:00:50.049 --> 00:00:53.210 that was the shortest one ever. Shortest disclaimer 00:00:53.210 --> 00:00:54.909 ever. I love it. Like I said, I do it a little 00:00:54.909 --> 00:00:57.950 different every time, right? At some point, our 00:00:57.950 --> 00:01:00.170 legal department or my legal department or your 00:01:00.170 --> 00:01:02.229 legal department is going to come and say, you 00:01:02.229 --> 00:01:05.209 need to do it this way, and I'm going to be so 00:01:05.209 --> 00:01:07.769 upset. Well, someone's going to actually think 00:01:07.769 --> 00:01:10.349 we've hit the big time because the legal department 00:01:10.349 --> 00:01:12.310 is a little ways off, I think. I was going to 00:01:12.310 --> 00:01:14.689 say, suddenly that disclaimer is going to sound 00:01:14.689 --> 00:01:18.329 really, really dry and specific. Yeah, exactly. 00:01:18.969 --> 00:01:22.049 And I'm going to be like, oh, darn. Oh, darn. 00:01:22.189 --> 00:01:25.049 Well, dude, we have got a great – special guest 00:01:25.049 --> 00:01:27.310 on, so I'm looking forward to this conversation. 00:01:28.010 --> 00:01:30.549 Yeah, we've been talking about this guest for 00:01:30.549 --> 00:01:33.750 a bit, and I think we had a whole bunch of stuff 00:01:33.750 --> 00:01:35.609 scheduled, and it was like, when is that? When 00:01:35.609 --> 00:01:37.969 are we doing that one? So yeah, really excited 00:01:37.969 --> 00:01:42.370 about this. I think everybody we're excited for, 00:01:42.450 --> 00:01:44.810 for different reasons, whether they're PhD candidates 00:01:44.810 --> 00:01:48.750 in some cases or have crazy, ridiculous backgrounds. 00:01:49.209 --> 00:01:52.769 What's great about this guy is his entire background 00:01:52.769 --> 00:01:58.319 is Not mine. So, like, totally different places. 00:01:58.620 --> 00:02:02.540 I'm just looking forward to this so much. So, 00:02:02.579 --> 00:02:07.099 maybe with that, let's intro our special guest, 00:02:07.319 --> 00:02:11.439 Mr. Willie Kopp. How are you, sir? Hello, hello. 00:02:11.639 --> 00:02:14.520 I am doing wonderfully. I'm very excited to be 00:02:14.520 --> 00:02:18.099 on the podcast. And I saw you guys post about 00:02:18.099 --> 00:02:19.560 this. I don't know. I think you said about a 00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:21.900 month and a half ago. And I had immediate requests. 00:02:22.039 --> 00:02:25.139 I got to jump on and talk to two of the best 00:02:25.139 --> 00:02:27.819 guys that I've got to work with and had the pleasure 00:02:27.819 --> 00:02:31.719 to work with in the past. So very much looking 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:33.979 forward to the conversation and excited to jump 00:02:33.979 --> 00:02:37.169 into some cool topics today. Awesome, sir. Thank 00:02:37.169 --> 00:02:40.469 you so much for being here. And yeah, maybe we 00:02:40.469 --> 00:02:42.789 get right into it. Why don't you talk a couple 00:02:42.789 --> 00:02:45.009 minutes kind of of just your background? Like, 00:02:45.030 --> 00:02:47.969 where'd you start? Where's your expertise? And 00:02:47.969 --> 00:02:50.349 some of the really cool stuff that you're dealing 00:02:50.349 --> 00:02:52.530 with right now, whether it's, you know, on the 00:02:52.530 --> 00:02:56.770 technology side. Yeah, let's do that. Absolutely. 00:02:56.930 --> 00:03:01.270 Well, I started as an engineer in college. I 00:03:01.270 --> 00:03:03.289 jumped into electrical engineering and always 00:03:03.289 --> 00:03:06.719 knew that I wanted to be. um in the tech world 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:09.000 somehow some way didn't really know what the 00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:10.840 hell electrical engineering was when i signed 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:14.979 up for it but uh i learned fairly quickly yeah 00:03:14.979 --> 00:03:19.919 learned very quickly in in uh in college um after 00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:23.500 college i jumped directly into sort of the sales 00:03:23.500 --> 00:03:27.879 engineering world um i started a bit in uh, in 00:03:27.879 --> 00:03:29.979 hardcore engineering with, you know, the earplugs 00:03:29.979 --> 00:03:32.759 in, in the data center and, and really tinkering 00:03:32.759 --> 00:03:35.080 on stuff and, you know, soldering and all that 00:03:35.080 --> 00:03:38.439 good stuff. But I realized very quickly, I realized 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:40.259 very quickly that that wasn't going to be the 00:03:40.259 --> 00:03:42.780 long haul for Willie. And I needed to be more 00:03:42.780 --> 00:03:46.819 out in, uh, out in the public and communicating 00:03:46.819 --> 00:03:52.379 and explaining technology. I had a similar revelation. 00:03:52.580 --> 00:03:56.810 So it sounds familiar. Yeah, so it was really 00:03:56.810 --> 00:04:01.550 good. And so I have been in customer technical 00:04:01.550 --> 00:04:05.129 sales, I would say, for, I don't know, the past 00:04:05.129 --> 00:04:09.770 20, 22 years in various functions. Always had 00:04:09.770 --> 00:04:12.550 that angle of loving technology. So I think it's 00:04:12.550 --> 00:04:15.750 kind of my safety lane. And I always migrate 00:04:15.750 --> 00:04:19.009 back to being technical, even though I am definitely 00:04:19.009 --> 00:04:24.139 in a sales first role. Um, but, uh, but yeah, 00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:28.240 networking technology video, uh, very recently 00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:31.100 I've been doing a lot with, um, wireless technology, 00:04:31.399 --> 00:04:33.600 specifically cellular. And so that's had some 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:35.980 really interesting learnings over the past couple 00:04:35.980 --> 00:04:38.579 of years. Uh, and it's unique to see that space 00:04:38.579 --> 00:04:43.180 evolve for sure. What's your, so part of your 00:04:43.180 --> 00:04:46.399 background has, has been in sports and entertainment, 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:49.240 right? So were you part of a, of an organization 00:04:49.240 --> 00:04:52.600 that was focused on that, that vertical? Yeah, 00:04:52.779 --> 00:04:56.139 I was probably I always look back on it and say 00:04:56.139 --> 00:04:58.779 that there will never be a better job than what 00:04:58.779 --> 00:05:02.680 I did for that 10 years. And yeah, it was just 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:06.759 a pure focus building out sport and entertainment 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:11.120 technologies for for venues. It's and most of 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:13.879 what we did was for, you know, like the NFL and 00:05:13.879 --> 00:05:16.360 Major League Baseball designing, you know, full 00:05:16.360 --> 00:05:18.740 blown high density wireless systems. And this 00:05:18.740 --> 00:05:21.319 was this was before the iPhone even came out. 00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:27.399 So when the iPhone hit, everything just went 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:31.120 awry because nobody could make a text message, 00:05:31.220 --> 00:05:33.139 nobody could make a phone call. The data that 00:05:33.139 --> 00:05:35.100 those things were sucking on the AT &T network 00:05:35.100 --> 00:05:38.439 was just... not prepared um and i think i watched 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:40.199 the blackberry movie i don't know if you guys 00:05:40.199 --> 00:05:42.680 have seen that um but it was just really funny 00:05:42.680 --> 00:05:45.120 to see if you guys watch that that uh when the 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:47.740 iphone got launched that blackberry was like 00:05:47.740 --> 00:05:49.519 these guys are never going to be able to do anything 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:52.839 one iphone basically sucks the same amount of 00:05:52.839 --> 00:05:55.740 data as 500 blackberries at the time that was 00:05:55.740 --> 00:05:59.019 on there So there was no there was no concept 00:05:59.019 --> 00:06:01.399 of how this is even going to work. Obviously, 00:06:01.699 --> 00:06:04.459 Verizon, AT &T and T -Mobile love that because 00:06:04.459 --> 00:06:07.100 it's really it's really drove, you know, the 00:06:07.100 --> 00:06:10.560 4G LTE and even 5G enhancements that we're starting 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:12.279 to see with millimeter wave on the new iPhone. 00:06:13.100 --> 00:06:18.079 So that that was amazing. World mode phone until 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:21.279 I until it was pride for my cold dead hands. 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:26.339 I had that world mode phone until the iPhone 00:06:26.339 --> 00:06:31.160 five came out, I think. And that's when I finally 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:34.639 jumped. Was it, was it, was it the keyboard that 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:37.480 kept you there? What was it? Yes. Yes. It was 00:06:37.480 --> 00:06:41.360 the keyboard. Absolutely. I still remember. I 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:45.360 still think I could fly faster on that keyboard 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:49.149 than I can even today on my iPhone. It was pretty 00:06:49.149 --> 00:06:52.790 amazing how good we got at communicating on that 00:06:52.790 --> 00:06:55.490 thing and just typing probably way more words 00:06:55.490 --> 00:06:58.810 a minute than I do on my laptop. Absolutely wild. 00:06:59.290 --> 00:07:01.569 So, Willie, you had said, so it's interesting, 00:07:01.709 --> 00:07:03.629 I was thinking that our backgrounds, like you 00:07:03.629 --> 00:07:04.990 have a totally different background, but that's 00:07:04.990 --> 00:07:07.430 really kind of in the career. You and I started 00:07:07.430 --> 00:07:10.089 similarly. I was also a double E, and that story 00:07:10.089 --> 00:07:12.029 of why I kind of went double E versus something 00:07:12.029 --> 00:07:13.810 else, I think I brought up on one of the other 00:07:13.810 --> 00:07:17.600 podcasts. What's interesting is because you have 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:21.120 that initial technical, you're still a technical 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:23.600 guy under the covers. It's obvious when you talk 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:28.800 to customers. What do you do to scratch the technical 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:31.319 itch? You're a sales guy during the day. You 00:07:31.319 --> 00:07:35.500 talk to customers during the day, but I know 00:07:35.500 --> 00:07:37.019 you've got the engineering itch. What do you 00:07:37.019 --> 00:07:39.959 do to make sure you scratch the engineering itch? 00:07:40.589 --> 00:07:44.509 Yeah, I mean, I still do as much as I can. I 00:07:44.509 --> 00:07:47.050 support a couple of local businesses here where 00:07:47.050 --> 00:07:51.810 I live and still run their IT systems for two 00:07:51.810 --> 00:07:54.790 local facilities. One of them is a brewery, so 00:07:54.790 --> 00:07:58.689 I get paid in beer. It's actually not fair for 00:07:58.689 --> 00:08:02.129 me to say that I'm doing it for just the goodwill, 00:08:02.269 --> 00:08:04.930 but it's awesome. I also know a guy that does 00:08:04.930 --> 00:08:08.300 that. He might even be the other guy on this 00:08:08.300 --> 00:08:13.720 podcast. There we go. So, but I really, it was 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:15.600 kind of nice because I got to use a lot of the 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:17.500 learnings that I had from the sport and entertainment 00:08:17.500 --> 00:08:19.800 space because really sport and entertainment 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:23.879 became more of a retail hospitality. Also the, 00:08:23.959 --> 00:08:26.480 you know, sporting aspect of it, but really it 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:29.120 was more about how can we provide a better seamless. 00:08:29.979 --> 00:08:32.399 customer experience? How do we reduce the friction 00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:34.840 in the experience when people are ingress when 00:08:34.840 --> 00:08:37.759 people are egressing? How do we sell and promote 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:40.480 more of the actual stuff that were there. So 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:42.700 I got to bring a lot of that back to the marketing 00:08:42.700 --> 00:08:46.000 facilities. And that led also into getting a 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:49.809 little bit more into um marketing as as a whole 00:08:49.809 --> 00:08:53.769 and just like advertising and how do you um build 00:08:53.769 --> 00:08:57.009 content with some of the creatives at um at my 00:08:57.009 --> 00:08:59.629 buddy's company which is really fun to do because 00:08:59.629 --> 00:09:01.870 that's totally not my background i couldn't you 00:09:01.870 --> 00:09:03.889 asked me to draw something and it would be you 00:09:03.889 --> 00:09:06.669 know it's horrible but working with these creatives 00:09:06.669 --> 00:09:09.899 and actually operationalizing that with the technology 00:09:09.899 --> 00:09:12.299 to drive a business outcome, it's pretty fulfilling. 00:09:12.399 --> 00:09:15.100 And it's fun to see that stuff come to life. 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:18.860 So I definitely do that. And then all of the 00:09:18.860 --> 00:09:21.179 cool things that are happening in the AI world 00:09:21.179 --> 00:09:25.500 are just really, really exciting to me. And there's 00:09:25.500 --> 00:09:28.460 a lot of things that I've tried, people that 00:09:28.460 --> 00:09:30.600 have come to me that are interested in promoting 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:33.399 some new thing that they're doing. One of the 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:35.440 ones that I've worked on really recently that 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:38.950 was cool with the old An old colleague of mine 00:09:38.950 --> 00:09:42.490 at Cisco's son is starting a company, and it's 00:09:42.490 --> 00:09:46.090 basically an AI ad generation tool. So you can 00:09:46.090 --> 00:09:50.870 take a website, take some basic content, PDFs, 00:09:50.870 --> 00:09:54.570 PNGs. You can throw them into this tool, link 00:09:54.570 --> 00:09:58.149 it to Facebook Marketplace or Google Ads, and 00:09:58.149 --> 00:10:00.710 it just automatically generates ads, and it puts 00:10:00.710 --> 00:10:03.029 them in the right spot. It hits the right demographics, 00:10:03.070 --> 00:10:08.049 and it's insane. to see how ai is changing how 00:10:08.049 --> 00:10:11.269 and what people can do and you know what a two 00:10:11.269 --> 00:10:14.789 three man crew at a company could achieve today 00:10:14.789 --> 00:10:18.289 is what it would have probably taken 15 to 20 00:10:18.289 --> 00:10:21.490 people you know a year ago only so those are 00:10:21.490 --> 00:10:23.549 some of the other things that i've i've definitely 00:10:23.549 --> 00:10:26.309 glommed on to recently and just trying to read 00:10:26.309 --> 00:10:29.629 and uh research as much as possible uh on the 00:10:29.629 --> 00:10:33.470 ai front what are those guys doing for the podcasting 00:10:33.470 --> 00:10:35.929 world because uh Maybe there's a way for us to 00:10:35.929 --> 00:10:39.250 to get some ad revenue from, you know, from from 00:10:39.250 --> 00:10:42.429 an AI tool with with the podcast. Yeah. So I'm 00:10:42.429 --> 00:10:46.970 not it's more, you know, consumer product good 00:10:46.970 --> 00:10:49.629 CPG stuff is how they're actually using most 00:10:49.629 --> 00:10:52.610 of this. Right. Because most of what happens 00:10:52.610 --> 00:10:55.289 with these CPG companies, they take a lot of 00:10:55.289 --> 00:10:57.210 their money and they reinvest it into Facebook 00:10:57.210 --> 00:11:00.230 marketplace or Facebook ads or Google ads. And 00:11:00.230 --> 00:11:03.309 that's really hopefully. People click on it as 00:11:03.309 --> 00:11:05.549 we all are online. And, you know, we're seeing 00:11:05.549 --> 00:11:07.570 things. Oh, click. That looks cool. I mean, let 00:11:07.570 --> 00:11:09.269 me get one of those only 20 bucks. Let's see 00:11:09.269 --> 00:11:12.409 if that's cool. Send it to the house. So how 00:11:12.409 --> 00:11:15.500 those ads are hitting. How they're actually uniquely 00:11:15.500 --> 00:11:19.320 tied to user generated content is a big key shift 00:11:19.320 --> 00:11:21.659 in movement. So we're not just creating an ad 00:11:21.659 --> 00:11:24.360 from, you know, like we see in the past. It's 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:26.919 how do you link that to the latest meme that 00:11:26.919 --> 00:11:29.240 people are all, you know, attached to. And now 00:11:29.240 --> 00:11:31.200 all of a sudden that's driving you to want to 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:33.899 do something. So that's where that, you know, 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:36.460 AI automated piece. And then there's a cool tool 00:11:36.460 --> 00:11:39.460 that allows you to sort of do asset and content 00:11:39.460 --> 00:11:41.639 publishing and management. So it doesn't automatically 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:44.379 push the stuff out. It proposes three options. 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:46.700 You get to select the one that you want and then 00:11:46.700 --> 00:11:48.379 you click it and that's what gets proposed and 00:11:48.379 --> 00:11:51.080 put into the actual ad rotation. And then next 00:11:51.080 --> 00:11:53.159 week, there's going to be a different one. So 00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:56.919 really interesting and cool to see. But just 00:11:56.919 --> 00:12:01.870 one example of how AI is just. Completely shifting 00:12:01.870 --> 00:12:03.730 the way that I would have looked at that five 00:12:03.730 --> 00:12:06.350 years ago when I was doing sponsorship and ad 00:12:06.350 --> 00:12:09.210 revenue inside of a stadium. That was one of 00:12:09.210 --> 00:12:10.830 the hardest things to figure out was how do we 00:12:10.830 --> 00:12:13.990 do good, clean content management that drives 00:12:13.990 --> 00:12:17.730 a specific need or a product? And now that's 00:12:17.730 --> 00:12:19.389 just being completely automated, which is really 00:12:19.389 --> 00:12:22.210 cool. Yeah, that is really cool. I mean, we've 00:12:22.210 --> 00:12:24.389 talked and we got, what, five minutes in, I think, 00:12:24.389 --> 00:12:28.269 before we said the. AI word. We sometimes joke, 00:12:28.330 --> 00:12:30.210 how far into our podcast are we going to get 00:12:30.210 --> 00:12:32.269 before it comes up? And depending on topics, 00:12:32.429 --> 00:12:34.450 it's usually not very long. Usually not very 00:12:34.450 --> 00:12:38.509 long. Willie, what's your feeling on the, I'm 00:12:38.509 --> 00:12:41.730 going to ask the kind of the question that we're 00:12:41.730 --> 00:12:44.909 all asking ourselves a lot. You said it, and 00:12:44.909 --> 00:12:48.309 it's so cool and also so scary at the same time. 00:12:48.409 --> 00:12:51.870 You said, hey, you know, it used to take 15 to 00:12:51.870 --> 00:12:53.850 20 people to do this stuff, and now it takes 00:12:53.850 --> 00:12:57.240 two or three. You know, you scale that up suddenly. 00:12:57.399 --> 00:13:00.860 I mean, that's marketing and that's artists and 00:13:00.860 --> 00:13:04.539 that's, you know, creative types that suddenly 00:13:04.539 --> 00:13:08.539 don't necessarily even need to be there. I get 00:13:08.539 --> 00:13:10.779 the upskilling part like, hey, the people are 00:13:10.779 --> 00:13:12.299 going to be there are going to be really, really 00:13:12.299 --> 00:13:15.139 freaking important. What's your feeling on the 00:13:15.139 --> 00:13:19.820 impact on? Just the those sectors in general 00:13:19.820 --> 00:13:22.460 and ensuring that we ultimately we still are 00:13:22.460 --> 00:13:25.000 going to need some smart people. We might not 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:28.179 need as many. What's that impact look like? Do 00:13:28.179 --> 00:13:31.799 you think or are you you know, does it make you 00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:33.799 excited because you think they can go do these 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:35.840 other two jobs that are still very important, 00:13:35.980 --> 00:13:37.659 but we don't have enough of them? Give me your 00:13:37.659 --> 00:13:40.620 give me your take. Yeah, I think it's a really 00:13:40.620 --> 00:13:42.879 interesting question. And, you know, I think 00:13:42.879 --> 00:13:47.169 there's two two really different. views on this, 00:13:47.289 --> 00:13:49.149 right? There's the one where, you know, supercomputer 00:13:49.149 --> 00:13:52.169 AI is going to kill us all and it's the death 00:13:52.169 --> 00:13:54.029 of us and it's just it's just inevitable. It's 00:13:54.029 --> 00:13:56.389 going to happen. And then there's the other piece 00:13:56.389 --> 00:13:59.070 that requires and I think we all know there's 00:13:59.070 --> 00:14:01.830 a human element that's needed for a lot of that 00:14:01.830 --> 00:14:04.049 creative for a lot of those things that you talked 00:14:04.049 --> 00:14:07.759 about. And I even look at like my sons. Right. 00:14:07.879 --> 00:14:09.960 I have three boys and they're all, you know, 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:12.679 in school with a completely different set of 00:14:12.679 --> 00:14:15.000 tools than we had when we were back in sixth, 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:17.639 seventh grade. Right. A calculator was amazing 00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:20.840 when you got to use it in math class and eventually 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:22.740 in college, if you didn't have a calculator, 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:25.120 you couldn't even do the test. Right. So I look 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:27.740 at it as a tool and as something now that we 00:14:27.740 --> 00:14:31.340 need to familiarize ourselves with. And we're 00:14:31.340 --> 00:14:34.419 always going to have this. tool that didn't exist 00:14:34.419 --> 00:14:38.059 before, this agentic AI model or this chat GPT 00:14:38.059 --> 00:14:41.899 equivalent that allows us to bring the best of 00:14:41.899 --> 00:14:44.480 our creative, bring the best of ourselves to 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:48.179 the table. That might be my hope, guys. That's 00:14:48.179 --> 00:14:50.500 the hope that I have as far as how is AI going 00:14:50.500 --> 00:14:53.940 to be something that we can use. And that's just, 00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:56.759 I guess, personal in personal ways. But then 00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:59.620 when I look at it from work, when we go out and 00:14:59.620 --> 00:15:02.379 we visit our customers, Our customers are trying 00:15:02.379 --> 00:15:04.519 to figure out in their business processes and 00:15:04.519 --> 00:15:07.220 in all of these things, how does AI help them? 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:11.039 And I don't see AI replacing the people. I see 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:12.840 the biggest problem right now is how are the 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:17.019 people actually operationalizing AI to drive 00:15:17.019 --> 00:15:19.720 that business case or to drive that need? And 00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:21.620 I know we talk about it a lot. Maybe it shows 00:15:21.620 --> 00:15:24.340 up five minutes into the podcast and usually 00:15:24.340 --> 00:15:26.720 five minutes into every work call I have. But 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:29.600 very few and far between am I actually seeing 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:33.379 people. put AI into reality, where it's actually 00:15:33.379 --> 00:15:37.519 doing the promise of what it can do. And I think 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:38.980 that's where the humans are going to need to 00:15:38.980 --> 00:15:42.399 figure out how to properly use that tool or use 00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:45.740 that calculator to figure out the problem. And 00:15:45.740 --> 00:15:47.220 I think there's a lot of work. There's a lot 00:15:47.220 --> 00:15:49.360 of education that we still need to go to, to 00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:51.200 figure out how to maximize the value that AI 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:54.480 brings to the table. Well, that's very insightful, 00:15:54.580 --> 00:15:56.919 man. Very insightful. Yeah, I appreciate that 00:15:56.919 --> 00:15:59.220 answer, Willie. And I think, you know, I feel 00:15:59.220 --> 00:16:03.539 like I read so much on this topic. And it's a 00:16:03.539 --> 00:16:06.419 bit of, you know, the pendulum swings back and 00:16:06.419 --> 00:16:09.519 forth between where the promise is and how fast 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:11.100 we're going to get there to, well, we're not 00:16:11.100 --> 00:16:14.419 quite sure. And I just read another article within 00:16:14.419 --> 00:16:17.440 this last week of how there's a concern. To your 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:21.179 exact point, Willie, there's surveys out there 00:16:21.179 --> 00:16:25.289 that show. It's not like you buy it and you instantly 00:16:25.289 --> 00:16:29.090 get this burst of immediate advantage and immediate 00:16:29.090 --> 00:16:32.549 productivity increases. You've got to be able 00:16:32.549 --> 00:16:34.970 to actually leverage it, get it into your workflow, 00:16:35.169 --> 00:16:38.490 and oh, by the way, put it where it can actually 00:16:38.490 --> 00:16:40.809 make a difference, not just because you have 00:16:40.809 --> 00:16:43.929 it. I had a customer, and I probably said this 00:16:43.929 --> 00:16:45.750 on one of the other podcasts, but I was at a 00:16:45.750 --> 00:16:50.110 kind of a panel kind of customer meeting, and 00:16:50.110 --> 00:16:52.879 one of the customers said, you know, at least 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:55.139 in the near term, it's never going to remove 00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:57.519 the need for the human that has domain knowledge. 00:16:57.940 --> 00:17:01.200 I do think that's going to continue to be critical. 00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:04.819 In a lot of cases, you still need someone to 00:17:04.819 --> 00:17:07.339 look at it, especially if you have it doing anything, 00:17:07.500 --> 00:17:10.359 you know, remotely complicated. You know, the 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:13.279 easy sugar high answer, maybe not, but if it's 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:16.549 anything remotely complicated. Well, yeah, you've 00:17:16.549 --> 00:17:20.690 got to make sure that when it spits out something 00:17:20.690 --> 00:17:23.369 and you're not an expert, it may look really, 00:17:23.450 --> 00:17:25.269 really good. You might go, man, that's fantastic. 00:17:25.490 --> 00:17:29.630 Let's just send it or use it or deploy what they're 00:17:29.630 --> 00:17:31.210 suggesting. But if you don't have somebody that 00:17:31.210 --> 00:17:33.609 actually understands that and goes, well, it's 00:17:33.609 --> 00:17:36.309 about 80 % right. This piece over here is not 00:17:36.309 --> 00:17:38.809 correct. You've got to have someone that can 00:17:38.809 --> 00:17:41.670 peel it apart and understand those pieces. Because 00:17:41.670 --> 00:17:44.640 if you don't. man, we're in, we're, we're going 00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:46.299 to be in worse trouble than we've been in before. 00:17:47.059 --> 00:17:49.200 Yeah. And I think I know a really interesting 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:51.339 question that I actually had just in preparation 00:17:51.339 --> 00:17:54.259 for this with you guys and just coming off of 00:17:54.259 --> 00:17:56.960 the name of the podcast with PLC in it. How do 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:01.720 you guys look at a PLC, which is a very deterministic 00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:04.599 piece of technology that is pervasive is not 00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:07.339 going anywhere fast, but how do we take something 00:18:07.339 --> 00:18:10.720 that's like AI, which is probabilistic and doesn't 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:14.529 necessarily have the Is it version A or version 00:18:14.529 --> 00:18:17.309 B? It could make a decision, right? And this 00:18:17.309 --> 00:18:19.789 decision needs to actually somehow work with 00:18:19.789 --> 00:18:22.930 a very deterministic environment like a PLC. 00:18:23.089 --> 00:18:27.529 How do you guys see those evolving into AI -enabled 00:18:27.529 --> 00:18:30.359 infrastructure and environments? Because I think 00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:32.180 there's probably something there, but it's always 00:18:32.180 --> 00:18:34.180 something that I've been kind of toying with 00:18:34.180 --> 00:18:36.200 myself when we sit down and we talk to some of 00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:38.700 these manufacturers around automation, right? 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:42.140 How do you guys see that evolving, let's say, 00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:45.539 in the next couple of years? Let's first define 00:18:45.539 --> 00:18:49.660 that, right? So you've got the C in PLC is control. 00:18:50.420 --> 00:18:55.619 I think we are going to continue to require very 00:18:55.619 --> 00:19:03.630 deterministic control. So the idea that AI is 00:19:03.630 --> 00:19:09.250 going to directly, like 100 % directly, do the 00:19:09.250 --> 00:19:12.450 control itself, I'm not sure you're going to 00:19:12.450 --> 00:19:16.069 see too much of that. But can it inform? Can 00:19:16.069 --> 00:19:19.730 it provide guidance? Can it say, hey, look, I'm 00:19:19.730 --> 00:19:23.190 beginning to see something going? Maybe I'll 00:19:23.190 --> 00:19:27.269 take a roll of steel, and you're expecting that 00:19:27.269 --> 00:19:30.809 roll of steel to be a certain length wide. And 00:19:30.809 --> 00:19:34.170 generally, what are you doing? You're measuring 00:19:34.170 --> 00:19:35.970 that as it comes in to ensure that it's within 00:19:35.970 --> 00:19:39.869 tolerances. But when you go to the next spool, 00:19:40.289 --> 00:19:43.769 you're measuring it alone, right? Well, maybe 00:19:43.769 --> 00:19:47.569 you have been sending that width up to a model, 00:19:47.650 --> 00:19:51.039 and it's recognizing that, you know, Ever so 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:53.460 slightly, the last five of these have been slightly 00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:56.200 different. I'm going to throw a flag well before 00:19:56.200 --> 00:19:59.460 we've got a problem and say we've got a problem. 00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:04.079 That kind of input back into a control loop to 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:06.000 let it know that something might be going on, 00:20:06.140 --> 00:20:09.619 that kind of thing I think you'll see more of. 00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:12.299 I'm not sure you're going to see within the next 00:20:12.299 --> 00:20:16.680 couple years direct AI control. Dave's opinion. 00:20:16.900 --> 00:20:21.000 John? Yeah. Yeah, good input, Dave. I agree. 00:20:21.140 --> 00:20:24.720 I think we're not ready today to just flip an 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:28.299 AI switch and have AI control the controller, 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:32.140 let's just say. I think, back to kind of Dave's 00:20:32.140 --> 00:20:34.640 point there, really, I think we can enhance what 00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:38.440 the PLC does. I think we can also, I mean, let's 00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:41.519 look at a manufacturer of PLCs, for example, 00:20:41.579 --> 00:20:44.119 and I won't name any names, but a large PLC manufacturer. 00:20:44.460 --> 00:20:46.960 They've got a bunch of data that they've saved 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:51.140 up over the years that they can apply to a large 00:20:51.140 --> 00:20:54.619 language model to help them maybe troubleshoot 00:20:54.619 --> 00:20:58.759 the PLC faster, better, more easily. You know, 00:20:58.759 --> 00:21:03.059 they can use that to... spit out some information 00:21:03.059 --> 00:21:05.339 when someone calls into the call center about 00:21:05.339 --> 00:21:07.779 these are the problems I'm seeing. These are 00:21:07.779 --> 00:21:09.519 the steps you should take to solve that. So I 00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:11.819 think that's another aspect of it where we can 00:21:11.819 --> 00:21:18.220 help make downtime a little bit better. Probably 00:21:18.220 --> 00:21:20.680 that's probably the wrong way to say it. Make 00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:23.720 downtime events cost less. We can resolve them 00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:27.339 more quickly, those types of things. So that's 00:21:27.339 --> 00:21:30.210 another. Part of where my head goes, optimizing 00:21:30.210 --> 00:21:35.250 PID loops in a system where you use some reinforcement 00:21:35.250 --> 00:21:39.650 learning to hone in exactly what the PID output 00:21:39.650 --> 00:21:42.130 should be. Things like that, I think, are where 00:21:42.130 --> 00:21:45.349 we're going to see some initial benefit from 00:21:45.349 --> 00:21:49.500 AI. Yeah. And I think I was I read a really interesting 00:21:49.500 --> 00:21:52.160 article on this last week, so I knew I wanted 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:53.640 to bring it up with you guys. And I don't know 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:55.579 how, but it all the sporting analogy always comes 00:21:55.579 --> 00:21:57.339 into play. I don't think it's just, you know, 00:21:57.339 --> 00:21:58.799 by chance. It's just nothing wrong with that. 00:21:58.940 --> 00:22:03.500 But yeah, but but it was it was around. behavior 00:22:03.500 --> 00:22:05.920 trees and i didn't really know what a behavior 00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:08.160 tree was so i had to do a little bit of investigation 00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:10.420 there but it's essentially comes from video game 00:22:10.420 --> 00:22:15.180 ai and behavior trees dictate npcs or these non 00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:17.559 -player characters that you have right so the 00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:20.220 the npc is going to patrol it's going to chase 00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:22.680 you if it sees you but you know if it's low on 00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:25.039 health it's going to run away so it has this 00:22:25.609 --> 00:22:28.809 behavior tree built into it right and i and it 00:22:28.809 --> 00:22:31.289 was a really interesting article of saying how 00:22:31.289 --> 00:22:33.549 they're taking those behavior trees which are 00:22:33.549 --> 00:22:35.490 essentially flow charts that represent you know 00:22:35.490 --> 00:22:38.390 actions and conditions composites and all these 00:22:38.390 --> 00:22:41.809 different types of things to this yeah yeah yeah 00:22:41.809 --> 00:22:46.039 and they're basically putting those behind behind 00:22:46.039 --> 00:22:48.980 the PLC right so the PLC which is hard to upgrade 00:22:48.980 --> 00:22:51.079 as we all know right going into somebody's operating 00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:53.339 environment it's working Willie yeah exactly 00:22:53.339 --> 00:22:57.319 embedding and embedding ai into the PLC i don't 00:22:57.319 --> 00:22:59.160 think that's going to happen anytime soon right 00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:01.500 maybe you know three to five years but they're 00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:04.140 you know applying this and and the analogy that 00:23:04.140 --> 00:23:06.359 they were using was that it's like hey this is 00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:09.240 the offensive coordinator the PLC is the quarterback 00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:11.660 running the plays but the offensive coordinator 00:23:11.660 --> 00:23:13.720 sitting in the booth who can see the defense 00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:15.980 who can see when we need to run an audible who 00:23:15.980 --> 00:23:18.859 can see when we need to make a change is constantly 00:23:18.859 --> 00:23:22.440 giving the updated play to the PLC and i just 00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:24.460 thought it was like a really cool that's a great 00:23:24.460 --> 00:23:28.400 analogy i love this analogy because it's still 00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:30.740 the quarterback that's ultimately making the 00:23:30.740 --> 00:23:34.339 call but the offensive coordinator and the coordinators 00:23:34.339 --> 00:23:37.319 on the sideline are to your point they got way 00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:41.049 more information But it's still the quarterback's 00:23:41.049 --> 00:23:44.089 call. Right. He could call an audible and say, 00:23:44.150 --> 00:23:47.829 okay, kill that. Let's go with this. Yes. Better 00:23:47.829 --> 00:23:51.869 field of view. Yes. Yeah. But ultimately, it's 00:23:51.869 --> 00:23:55.109 still that controller's call. So it may, to your 00:23:55.109 --> 00:23:57.869 point, it may be better coordinators and more 00:23:57.869 --> 00:24:01.529 visibility of the plays and more historical information 00:24:01.529 --> 00:24:05.150 on the opponent and faster analysis of lives, 00:24:05.289 --> 00:24:09.599 looking at player. trends of hey that player 00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:11.599 always stands this way and he's standing that 00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:13.660 way is it an injury are they doing something 00:24:13.660 --> 00:24:16.259 different than we didn't see on tape uh yeah 00:24:16.259 --> 00:24:21.859 i i love it Willie yeah but i think but i think 00:24:21.859 --> 00:24:24.440 kind of why why that came to mind was because 00:24:24.440 --> 00:24:26.539 i think it comes back to the previous point that 00:24:26.539 --> 00:24:28.940 i still believe that there's always going to 00:24:28.940 --> 00:24:32.680 be that human That human element that's needed 00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:35.359 to pull all of this stuff together, not to mention, 00:24:35.380 --> 00:24:37.500 you know, the data that you talked about, like 00:24:37.500 --> 00:24:40.519 these major PLC manufacturers, they've been collecting 00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:43.900 this heuristic data for, I don't know, 10 years. 00:24:44.259 --> 00:24:47.960 But none of that data is even put in a format 00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:50.059 that you could shove into an inference model 00:24:50.059 --> 00:24:53.079 or a large language model because it's not properly, 00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:57.579 you know. It's not contextualized. It's not contextualized. 00:24:57.579 --> 00:24:59.680 It's not probably indexed, which it probably 00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:03.140 needs to be. So that piece is also another area 00:25:03.140 --> 00:25:04.799 where the humans are going to really have to 00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:09.220 understand how that works and where that's going. 00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:13.059 So that's awesome. No, I'm glad to get your guys' 00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:14.599 feedback on that. I thought you guys would get 00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:16.619 a kick out of that one. Yeah, thanks for the 00:25:16.619 --> 00:25:18.990 question. Very much so. Good, good, good stuff. 00:25:19.349 --> 00:25:22.029 Willie, maybe so. John had asked you kind of 00:25:22.029 --> 00:25:25.109 about your your history on the sports and entertainment 00:25:25.109 --> 00:25:29.089 front. Give us a story. I love stories. Give 00:25:29.089 --> 00:25:31.390 us your your I don't know, either you're the 00:25:31.390 --> 00:25:34.210 most freaking kick butt story that you can think 00:25:34.210 --> 00:25:36.690 of or like the nightmare story. Both are always 00:25:36.690 --> 00:25:41.470 really good. OK, so I'll start with maybe it's 00:25:41.470 --> 00:25:45.809 a little bit of both. Um, so it was, it was a 00:25:45.809 --> 00:25:49.990 super super bowl, uh, in Miami, right? This is 00:25:49.990 --> 00:25:54.430 right when it, um, uh, Steve Ross was, had just 00:25:54.430 --> 00:25:56.950 bought the team. Um, and he's a big, you know, 00:25:56.950 --> 00:26:00.130 developer, uh, out of New York, uh, hardcore 00:26:00.130 --> 00:26:03.289 East, you know, East New York guy, right. Comes 00:26:03.289 --> 00:26:06.250 in and wants to just make this place the next 00:26:06.250 --> 00:26:09.440 generation technology. For the folks who've been 00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:12.359 to Miami Stadium where the Dolphins play, it's 00:26:12.359 --> 00:26:14.180 a little long in the tooth, right? It needed 00:26:14.180 --> 00:26:18.480 a lot of love and care. And as we all know, when... 00:26:18.890 --> 00:26:21.529 Random IT people will go into these environments. 00:26:21.670 --> 00:26:24.609 The cabling, let's just say, it's called a rat's 00:26:24.609 --> 00:26:27.309 nest for a reason, right? And there was just 00:26:27.309 --> 00:26:31.589 a nightmare of stuff that we had to do. And we 00:26:31.589 --> 00:26:33.950 were down to the wire. We had got through and 00:26:33.950 --> 00:26:37.470 we were able to convince them that we can do 00:26:37.470 --> 00:26:40.809 this upgrade before the Super Bowl hits. So the 00:26:40.809 --> 00:26:44.130 pressure was on. And these facilities are large 00:26:44.130 --> 00:26:47.470 and a big portion of what we had sold. was a 00:26:47.470 --> 00:26:51.069 IPTV upgrade. And it was a platform that we had 00:26:51.069 --> 00:26:55.390 created in -house at the company I was at. We 00:26:55.390 --> 00:26:58.049 had hardware that was called a digital media 00:26:58.049 --> 00:27:01.210 player that would sit behind every single TV 00:27:01.210 --> 00:27:04.789 and it had to be installed. It wasn't a light 00:27:04.789 --> 00:27:07.089 piece of gear either. It was metal, it was sharp, 00:27:07.210 --> 00:27:11.890 and it was somewhat challenging to get installed. 00:27:12.089 --> 00:27:14.680 And so we're... You know, supposed to be selling 00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:16.359 the stuff. But at this point, we're rolling up 00:27:16.359 --> 00:27:18.240 our sleeves and actually installing things because 00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:20.299 we're running out of time. The Super Bowl is 00:27:20.299 --> 00:27:22.619 in seven days and we were working on all of the 00:27:22.619 --> 00:27:27.400 suites at a Super Bowl. What happens with the 00:27:27.400 --> 00:27:31.039 all of the teams are invited to every Super Bowl, 00:27:31.099 --> 00:27:34.180 even if you don't make it. And the people that 00:27:34.180 --> 00:27:36.180 are invited to the Super Bowl are the owners 00:27:36.180 --> 00:27:39.589 of all of the different teams. So we were actually 00:27:39.589 --> 00:27:44.130 setting up all of the individual suites and doing 00:27:44.130 --> 00:27:46.109 a little extra stuff inside of those environments 00:27:46.109 --> 00:27:48.250 as a sales tool. We know we were going to be 00:27:48.250 --> 00:27:51.190 able to come in and just pop by and see how everyone 00:27:51.190 --> 00:27:54.650 was doing, get a little minor sales check in 00:27:54.650 --> 00:27:56.410 while everyone's having fun watching the Super 00:27:56.410 --> 00:28:01.279 Bowl. um they were doing i can't remember who 00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:03.279 sang the national anthem but i was able to kind 00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:05.200 of see the national anthem and they were doing 00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:07.720 the practice uh on the side so it wasn't really 00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:10.680 paying attention and i was installing one of 00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:13.680 these media players and pressed my hand up to 00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:16.039 go and touch the media player it was not plugged 00:28:16.039 --> 00:28:18.519 in all the way to the cat5 cable and it flew 00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:20.700 probably three feet off of the ceiling and cracked 00:28:20.700 --> 00:28:22.140 me right in the forehead and i had to go to the 00:28:22.140 --> 00:28:25.680 hospital get stitches and so that was that was 00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:28.519 kind of the the the uh you know in the trenches 00:28:28.519 --> 00:28:30.799 war story i still have a scar on it from uh on 00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:35.180 my head from that i bet i bet i bet yeah so that 00:28:35.180 --> 00:28:38.480 was that was you know a quick Quick minor delay, 00:28:38.599 --> 00:28:40.559 but I was back. We were installing and we finished. 00:28:40.700 --> 00:28:43.559 And the good news was we actually did a phenomenal 00:28:43.559 --> 00:28:46.079 job and actually got a couple of additional deals. 00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:50.559 I met a bunch of famous people who were Miami's 00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:55.380 finest. I ran into Lil Wayne, who's a rapper. 00:28:55.519 --> 00:28:57.619 I'm sure I think everybody has heard of him. 00:28:57.819 --> 00:29:02.329 Lil Wheezy. Lil Wheezy. And how I met him was 00:29:02.329 --> 00:29:05.450 a very, very interesting story. We went to the 00:29:05.450 --> 00:29:09.190 Dallas Cowboys suite where Jerry Jones, Scarlett, 00:29:09.289 --> 00:29:12.029 who is his daughter, Stephen Jones, his whole 00:29:12.029 --> 00:29:15.410 family, they were there. And we went in to go 00:29:15.410 --> 00:29:18.329 and say hi, have a drink and just check in. We 00:29:18.329 --> 00:29:19.890 had already had them as a customer. So it was 00:29:19.890 --> 00:29:21.930 just a check in and just, hey, we wanted to go 00:29:21.930 --> 00:29:24.700 and shake hands. And while we were in there, 00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:28.200 Little Wayne and his crew walks into the Dallas 00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:31.319 Cowboys suite and Jerry Jones and Little Wayne 00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:34.400 have this like mafia kind of, you know, connection 00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:36.680 where they shake hands and they do this hug and 00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:39.420 they talk for like three minutes. And then I 00:29:39.420 --> 00:29:41.619 said hi to him. And at the time, I really liked 00:29:41.619 --> 00:29:44.099 his music when I was coming out of college. But 00:29:44.099 --> 00:29:46.799 for me, that was like a that was like a big deal 00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:50.220 to to see Jerry Jones and him having this this 00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:53.519 weird embrace. And that was the cap off while 00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:55.460 I had a huge, you know, bandage on my forehead 00:29:55.460 --> 00:29:57.720 from getting attacked by a media player three 00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:00.619 days prior. I love it. I love it. Stories are 00:30:00.619 --> 00:30:02.720 great. Like, of course, I've got this freaking 00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:05.339 bandage in this case. Like it had exactly. They 00:30:05.339 --> 00:30:08.319 didn't care. Exactly. Good. Oh, my goodness. 00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:10.859 That's a that's a that's a freaking great story. 00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:14.039 I love I love those. I love those war stories. 00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:17.579 Really, really awesome. So Willie, I got a question 00:30:17.579 --> 00:30:21.500 for you. You have now pivoted to becoming a wireless 00:30:21.500 --> 00:30:25.019 guy full -time. What was the impetus there? What 00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:30.940 did you see? What drove that need to go chase 00:30:30.940 --> 00:30:33.380 after that? And talk a little bit more about 00:30:33.380 --> 00:30:37.400 that decision. Sure. Well, look, I think while 00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:41.640 I was in college, RF high -frequency design is 00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:45.940 actually what I ended up kind of... focusing 00:30:45.940 --> 00:30:49.039 on and majoring in if you will as like a specific 00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:55.059 area inside of EE um and So I always had just 00:30:55.059 --> 00:30:57.779 an interest in, you know, like Fourier transforms 00:30:57.779 --> 00:31:00.859 and how all of this stuff works. And it was extremely 00:31:00.859 --> 00:31:03.559 challenging, probably the hardest math class 00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:06.839 and the hardest class that I think I took while 00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:11.079 I was there. I remember. Outside of programming, 00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:13.079 which I was never really good at programming. 00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:15.339 But now we have AI so we can program. Everyone's 00:31:15.339 --> 00:31:18.920 a programmer. But that was more of like it was 00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:21.049 it was. it was a solution. It was like solving 00:31:21.049 --> 00:31:23.089 a puzzle, right? Because in math, there's always 00:31:23.089 --> 00:31:25.309 a way to get there and there's only one answer. 00:31:25.549 --> 00:31:29.819 And I just, I was very intrigued by that. Wireless 00:31:29.819 --> 00:31:32.980 was always something that, you know, I loved 00:31:32.980 --> 00:31:35.119 and I had a passion about. And when I started 00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:37.559 in sport and entertainment, it was really awesome 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:40.140 because the iPhone did just come out. High density 00:31:40.140 --> 00:31:44.079 Wi -Fi was this like huge requirement all of 00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:46.960 a sudden and every stadium needed it. It was 00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:49.680 like it was like the fifth utility. And if people 00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:52.230 can come into these facilities. and not be able 00:31:52.230 --> 00:31:54.390 to make a 911 call because the data is being 00:31:54.390 --> 00:31:57.009 sucked up by all these devices, there was a mission 00:31:57.009 --> 00:32:00.490 -critical aspect too. So it really thrust me 00:32:00.490 --> 00:32:05.390 into, okay, RF design, even working with the 00:32:05.390 --> 00:32:07.650 engineering groups at my company at the time 00:32:07.650 --> 00:32:10.890 to build specific antenna arrays that solved 00:32:10.890 --> 00:32:14.509 the problem of... cramming a bunch of access 00:32:14.509 --> 00:32:18.730 points in one relatively small area without co 00:32:18.730 --> 00:32:21.369 -channel interference and changing some of the 00:32:21.369 --> 00:32:25.029 behavior of 802 .11. So that really was just... 00:32:25.210 --> 00:32:28.690 exciting to me. And while we were doing a lot 00:32:28.690 --> 00:32:30.970 of the high density wireless solutions, we were 00:32:30.970 --> 00:32:33.930 working with the carriers. So AT &T, Verizon 00:32:33.930 --> 00:32:37.170 at the time, Sprint was also involved at the 00:32:37.170 --> 00:32:39.009 time, which is no longer, but really it was AT 00:32:39.009 --> 00:32:41.430 &T and Verizon. And what they were doing was 00:32:41.430 --> 00:32:44.230 installing distributed antenna systems, which 00:32:44.230 --> 00:32:48.339 is essentially taking - DAS, DAS systems. Yep, 00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:50.619 which is essentially taking and repeating the 00:32:50.619 --> 00:32:53.680 cellular signals on those same carrier frequencies 00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:56.890 that they use on the macro side. inside of a 00:32:56.890 --> 00:32:59.509 distributed environment like a stadium. Because 00:32:59.509 --> 00:33:02.309 cell phone reception, when they did those macro 00:33:02.309 --> 00:33:05.250 tower designs, they weren't accounting for 80 00:33:05.250 --> 00:33:07.390 ,000 people to show up on a Sunday for a Dallas 00:33:07.390 --> 00:33:10.150 football game. So all of the towers that were 00:33:10.150 --> 00:33:13.150 servicing that area just get massively overloaded. 00:33:13.150 --> 00:33:15.789 So they had to add more capacity. They did so 00:33:15.789 --> 00:33:20.230 with DAS and also data offload with Wi -Fi. The 00:33:20.230 --> 00:33:22.410 more people we can get onto Wi -Fi, the more 00:33:22.410 --> 00:33:24.410 data that's not going over the cellular infrastructure. 00:33:25.099 --> 00:33:27.319 the more ability for people to make phone calls 00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:30.539 and mission critical things like 911. So that 00:33:30.539 --> 00:33:34.140 was kind of my initial, you know, jump into that. 00:33:34.220 --> 00:33:37.000 And then private wireless started to become more 00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:39.440 of a thing, I would say maybe like six or seven 00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:42.500 years ago. And that was right around the time 00:33:42.500 --> 00:33:45.920 that we were looking at. applying this more to 00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:49.680 the enterprise? And how do we come up with a 00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:53.819 unique model that allows Wi -Fi and private cellular 00:33:53.819 --> 00:33:56.579 to work together? And it was just something that 00:33:56.579 --> 00:34:02.440 I have always wanted to be a reality. And I felt 00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:04.839 like I might have the ability to influence it 00:34:04.839 --> 00:34:08.760 and learn a little bit more about it and really 00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:10.960 dig into some of the things that need to happen 00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:15.340 for it to work. Unfortunately, I will say that 00:34:15.340 --> 00:34:19.019 the carriers or the CSPs, the TMOs, the ATTs, 00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:21.760 the Verizons of the world, they are the linchpin 00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:25.260 for any of that stuff to happen. So if they're 00:34:25.260 --> 00:34:29.440 not willing to be a little bit more flexible 00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:31.900 than they have been in the past, I think it's 00:34:31.900 --> 00:34:34.360 going to continue to be slow. And I think that's 00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:35.880 the one thing I think we could all agree that. 00:34:36.659 --> 00:34:39.360 I'm seeing more and more verticals, specifically 00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:44.579 ports for port automation, mining, a little bit 00:34:44.579 --> 00:34:49.639 more in manufacturing, but more so in automotive. 00:34:49.900 --> 00:34:53.000 I'm seeing automotive really lean towards, because 00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:54.860 of the fact they have a lot of AGVs and mobility, 00:34:55.239 --> 00:34:58.300 private wireless is becoming something that they're 00:34:58.300 --> 00:35:01.199 no longer. On the fence, should we go Wi -Fi? 00:35:01.219 --> 00:35:03.659 Should we go private wireless? They know that 00:35:03.659 --> 00:35:05.739 they're doing that for those three verticals. 00:35:05.860 --> 00:35:10.440 And it just provides a much more deterministic 00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:16.119 level of connectivity. But there still is the 00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:18.920 requirement for it to have that IT -OT integration. 00:35:19.239 --> 00:35:21.940 And we still need to understand how it works 00:35:21.940 --> 00:35:24.320 with the PLC, how it works with things like Factory 00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:27.780 Talk, how it works with the UEs. How does it 00:35:27.780 --> 00:35:29.980 work with multicast, with routing, with all of 00:35:29.980 --> 00:35:33.739 those networking components? So it's just, in 00:35:33.739 --> 00:35:36.300 my mind, it's a driver to accelerate a lot. And 00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:39.739 when you start to talk about AI, AI is nothing 00:35:39.739 --> 00:35:42.239 like we talked about before, unless it has good, 00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:44.960 valuable data being sent into it, because it 00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:47.260 still needs to make a decision based upon some 00:35:47.260 --> 00:35:53.320 type of input. And the more that we can get deterministic, 00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:56.840 reliable connectivity. for a lot of these things 00:35:56.840 --> 00:35:58.659 that we want to pull data out of, like sensors 00:35:58.659 --> 00:36:02.000 or PLCs or whatever, the more AI can be used. 00:36:02.179 --> 00:36:05.179 So I think it's going to go hand in hand with 00:36:05.179 --> 00:36:09.139 AI starting to actually provide that real true 00:36:09.139 --> 00:36:11.619 business outcome and business value that everybody 00:36:11.619 --> 00:36:14.400 talks about. It's going to be hand in hand with 00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:16.940 wireless connectivity. But, you know, you guys 00:36:16.940 --> 00:36:19.550 know I've always been. the wireless continuum 00:36:19.550 --> 00:36:22.690 guy, right? I don't think it's going to be one 00:36:22.690 --> 00:36:25.769 technology that does anything. All of these things 00:36:25.769 --> 00:36:27.969 are going to have to work together and we're 00:36:27.969 --> 00:36:30.769 using the right tool for the right job. Man, 00:36:30.809 --> 00:36:33.369 that was well said. I think, and we definitely 00:36:33.369 --> 00:36:34.690 agree with you. I mean, that's what we talked 00:36:34.690 --> 00:36:36.769 with people about all the time is there is not 00:36:36.769 --> 00:36:38.949 one ring to rule them all. We've got to have 00:36:38.949 --> 00:36:42.230 multiple options because you can't always use 00:36:42.230 --> 00:36:46.150 one technology across every application that 00:36:46.150 --> 00:36:49.230 you have, you know, to your point, right? Well, 00:36:49.269 --> 00:36:51.530 there's so many pieces. I mean, there's just 00:36:51.530 --> 00:36:55.510 so many pieces. You've got internal support teams 00:36:55.510 --> 00:36:59.429 that have to understand the life cycle from where 00:36:59.429 --> 00:37:01.789 the data originates to where it gets to where 00:37:01.789 --> 00:37:04.510 it's going. And a lot of them don't today, right? 00:37:04.730 --> 00:37:08.210 Yeah, you got installation locations where, you 00:37:08.210 --> 00:37:11.309 know, in some cases, you know, you're literally 00:37:11.309 --> 00:37:15.230 your only option potentially is cellular or even 00:37:15.230 --> 00:37:17.530 satellite in some cases, depending on where it 00:37:17.530 --> 00:37:21.079 is. So you're yeah, there's so many variables 00:37:21.079 --> 00:37:24.539 that go into it. And I mean, the way I look at 00:37:24.539 --> 00:37:27.360 it, right, is and by the way, you're you're RF 00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:30.159 stories of kind of how you got into some of this 00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:33.300 stuff. I was a longtime ham up. I haven't I've 00:37:33.300 --> 00:37:36.340 been active for a long time. But my in my youth, 00:37:36.500 --> 00:37:40.739 there was so much with making sure, you know, 00:37:40.739 --> 00:37:43.980 marrying an antenna up to a to a transmitter 00:37:43.980 --> 00:37:47.380 and looking at what the SWR was on the return. 00:37:47.820 --> 00:37:50.480 and, you know, antenna design and all of the 00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:53.980 creativeness around how you can get, you know, 00:37:53.980 --> 00:37:56.460 better propagation in a specific direction. Ah, 00:37:56.539 --> 00:37:59.099 just fond memories. But I was never good at the 00:37:59.099 --> 00:38:03.320 math. And the math freaking just destroyed me. 00:38:03.380 --> 00:38:05.840 That was... That was like the time I went from, 00:38:05.860 --> 00:38:09.280 oh, I'm pretty good with math to, no, no, really, 00:38:09.500 --> 00:38:12.639 gut y 'all, you're not good at math at all. Yeah, 00:38:12.739 --> 00:38:15.000 I had to have somebody help me. I had to have 00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:17.420 somebody help me with that because I couldn't 00:38:17.420 --> 00:38:19.380 solve it on my own. I had to have help. Yeah, 00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:23.360 just great, great stories there, man. So obviously 00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:25.099 your career took you in a direction where you 00:38:25.099 --> 00:38:28.320 kind of went back to that. What's your feeling 00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:31.820 on sort of the... say, well, the next big thing 00:38:31.820 --> 00:38:34.219 is 6G and we're not there yet. In your mind, 00:38:34.380 --> 00:38:37.780 what's the next big, what's the kick in the pants 00:38:37.780 --> 00:38:41.880 to get customers to adapt, you know, more of 00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:44.400 the cellular technology, more of the connected 00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:47.159 technology? You know, there's only so much silicon 00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:50.019 to go around, so you can only adopt it so fast. 00:38:50.260 --> 00:38:52.820 What's your, where's your, based upon what you 00:38:52.820 --> 00:38:55.940 see, what do you see as the next big thing, Willie? 00:38:56.480 --> 00:39:00.039 Every laptop supports Wi -Fi. So it doesn't matter 00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:02.400 who comes into your facility. If they have a 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:05.260 laptop and it supports Wi -Fi, you know it's 00:39:05.260 --> 00:39:07.059 going to be able to be connected. But if it doesn't 00:39:07.059 --> 00:39:11.900 support band 48, CBRS, N66, all these different 00:39:11.900 --> 00:39:17.239 obscure radio level requirements, it makes it 00:39:17.239 --> 00:39:20.099 harder for the PLC, which doesn't have a cellular 00:39:20.099 --> 00:39:23.099 connection, to be automatically pulled into that. 00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:25.300 So I think that's another thing that is preventing. 00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:29.460 customers from really jumping in headfirst, but 00:39:29.460 --> 00:39:32.900 those initial early adopting customers are really 00:39:32.900 --> 00:39:36.699 driving those discussions and pushing harder 00:39:36.699 --> 00:39:41.059 and harder on a lot of the carriers. I think 00:39:41.059 --> 00:39:44.300 the other really interesting piece that's happening 00:39:44.300 --> 00:39:48.809 is that the carriers are they're not paying for 00:39:48.809 --> 00:39:50.429 things like they used to. Like, you know, my 00:39:50.429 --> 00:39:52.670 example before with distributed antenna systems, 00:39:53.010 --> 00:39:55.909 the carriers in the past would fund those systems. 00:39:56.070 --> 00:39:59.469 So they would come into the stadium and they 00:39:59.469 --> 00:40:01.969 would say, we're going to pay for this $12 million 00:40:01.969 --> 00:40:04.570 DAS system, but you're going to put my Verizon 00:40:04.570 --> 00:40:06.469 name on the building. You're going to give me 00:40:06.469 --> 00:40:08.369 some free tickets. I'm going to be able to use 00:40:08.369 --> 00:40:11.230 this as a hosting facility for my, you know, 00:40:11.230 --> 00:40:14.570 big stadium kickoff with my customers. So they 00:40:14.570 --> 00:40:17.360 got something out of it, but now they're, realizing 00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:20.380 that that's not a very good business model for 00:40:20.380 --> 00:40:23.380 us. And the customers are going to have to start 00:40:23.380 --> 00:40:27.139 paying because they can use this platform for 00:40:27.139 --> 00:40:29.300 other things. So what we're seeing is this whole 00:40:29.300 --> 00:40:31.239 concept of neutral host networking. Have you 00:40:31.239 --> 00:40:33.719 guys heard of this yet? I don't think I have. 00:40:34.260 --> 00:40:37.539 So neutral host networking is now when a customer 00:40:37.539 --> 00:40:40.340 or when a customer comes back to you and says, 00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:43.179 hey, I have a manufacturing plant out in the 00:40:43.179 --> 00:40:46.170 outskirts of town. I don't have good cellular 00:40:46.170 --> 00:40:49.250 connection in there. So my Verizon phones don't 00:40:49.250 --> 00:40:52.630 work. Can you guys come in and install a DAS 00:40:52.630 --> 00:40:55.570 so that I can actually make phone calls? And 00:40:55.570 --> 00:40:59.590 in the past, if the customer was big enough and 00:40:59.590 --> 00:41:02.769 maybe they had 10, 15 ,000 lines with that service 00:41:02.769 --> 00:41:04.909 provider, that service provider would be willing 00:41:04.909 --> 00:41:07.289 to go in and make that investment. Now they're 00:41:07.289 --> 00:41:10.170 not. So what they're encouraging the customers 00:41:10.170 --> 00:41:14.480 to do is install a private cellular system. that 00:41:14.480 --> 00:41:17.340 you can use for business operations, for connecting 00:41:17.340 --> 00:41:20.139 your connected worker laptops or identifying 00:41:20.139 --> 00:41:22.380 all of the things that we want to sell private 00:41:22.380 --> 00:41:24.719 wireless today. But guess what? We're going to 00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:26.760 connect it to our core in the background. So 00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:29.760 you also will get enhanced cellular connection. 00:41:30.219 --> 00:41:35.039 So that is a really key. Driving factor that 00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:38.079 is pushing a lot of customers to have a clear 00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:40.860 distinction as to why would I not do Wi -Fi? 00:41:40.900 --> 00:41:42.719 Oh, well, Wi -Fi is never going to help you with 00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:45.360 your cellular connection. And when we talk about 00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:48.039 neutral host network, now that's the concept 00:41:48.039 --> 00:41:52.380 of AT &T, T -Mobile and Verizon all connecting 00:41:52.380 --> 00:41:55.920 in the back end through that private wireless 00:41:55.920 --> 00:41:58.360 core that is set up to do enterprise stuff. But 00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:01.750 now also. It enhances connectivity for all three 00:42:01.750 --> 00:42:03.829 of the carrier people who roam in and out of 00:42:03.829 --> 00:42:07.829 that network. So that is a huge catalyst for 00:42:07.829 --> 00:42:10.829 the private wireless space. It's taking a while 00:42:10.829 --> 00:42:14.469 because there's a lot of nuanced discussion around 00:42:14.469 --> 00:42:17.130 the CSPs and do I really want to give this and 00:42:17.130 --> 00:42:19.530 how do I let people have access to my spectrum? 00:42:19.809 --> 00:42:22.969 Not to mention T -Mobile, AT &T and Verizon working 00:42:22.969 --> 00:42:28.250 together to enhance one customer. is not always 00:42:28.250 --> 00:42:30.710 the easiest thing to do, right? So convincing 00:42:30.710 --> 00:42:33.050 those guys to work together is not great. But 00:42:33.050 --> 00:42:36.429 in my mind, I think device landscape and then 00:42:36.429 --> 00:42:39.030 neutral host networking are going to really, 00:42:39.130 --> 00:42:42.630 in the next three to five years, thrust private 00:42:42.630 --> 00:42:45.650 wireless into these enterprise spaces, whether 00:42:45.650 --> 00:42:47.530 they like it or not, because the carriers are 00:42:47.530 --> 00:42:52.010 no longer going to be doing that funded DAS model. 00:42:52.250 --> 00:42:54.329 They might do it at a stadium here and there 00:42:54.329 --> 00:42:57.179 because it's a unique, large public venue. But 00:42:57.179 --> 00:42:59.119 in all of the other places where they used to 00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:02.260 do this, like Exxon, as an example, they have 00:43:02.260 --> 00:43:06.019 a huge, you know, 38 person or 38 building headquarters 00:43:06.019 --> 00:43:09.480 in Houston. And there's a 15 year old DAS system 00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:11.320 that is supported by one of the carriers there. 00:43:11.440 --> 00:43:13.880 It doesn't work anymore. It doesn't support even 00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:16.900 3G, right? I mean, it's legacy and it needs to 00:43:16.900 --> 00:43:20.900 be replaced. So the customer has to now pay for 00:43:20.900 --> 00:43:22.659 that upgrade. So if they're going to pay for 00:43:22.659 --> 00:43:24.480 that upgrade, they don't want it to just be a 00:43:24.480 --> 00:43:27.079 cellular enhancement. just for Verizon to benefit 00:43:27.079 --> 00:43:29.480 or for AT &T to benefit, they want to be able 00:43:29.480 --> 00:43:32.360 to use it for IoT use cases, for installing cameras 00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:34.059 in the parking lot, for safety and security, 00:43:34.360 --> 00:43:37.079 for doing some of these things that private wireless 00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:40.119 would really lend itself to in a business enterprise 00:43:40.119 --> 00:43:44.599 environment. Wow, that was a mouthful. Now I 00:43:44.599 --> 00:43:46.340 understand what neutral host networking is. So 00:43:46.340 --> 00:43:50.389 that was very, very, very educational. You know, 00:43:50.389 --> 00:43:52.570 Willie, I'm looking at the time and we are about 00:43:52.570 --> 00:43:54.690 out of our hour time. I can't believe we're already 00:43:54.690 --> 00:43:57.630 at the end here. Wanted to just say thank you 00:43:57.630 --> 00:44:01.969 for coming on and for your directness, candor. 00:44:02.050 --> 00:44:04.289 I mean, this has been fantastic. You know, you 00:44:04.289 --> 00:44:07.829 speak well. You never say the uh or um or anything 00:44:07.829 --> 00:44:10.489 else. You know your stuff. And so it's always 00:44:10.489 --> 00:44:12.610 great to talk with you, man. And the time just 00:44:12.610 --> 00:44:15.230 disappeared. It just disappeared. You look down 00:44:15.230 --> 00:44:17.380 and we're out of it. It's great. That's what 00:44:17.380 --> 00:44:19.800 happens. That's what happens when you're talking 00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:23.300 to good people. And I definitely miss working 00:44:23.300 --> 00:44:28.260 with you guys closer for sure. But it was really, 00:44:28.440 --> 00:44:29.980 really good to chat with you guys. And again, 00:44:30.019 --> 00:44:33.280 thank you for having me and amazing work you 00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:35.699 guys are doing on the podcast. Thank you, sir. 00:44:36.059 --> 00:44:40.139 This is good night. Thanks, everybody. Thanks 00:44:40.139 --> 00:44:46.170 again. Thank you.