WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.399 Waking up every day, if I say what I want to 00:00:02.399 --> 00:00:04.879 say, then there's these negative comments and 00:00:04.879 --> 00:00:07.459 you're losing followers. It's just this constant 00:00:07.459 --> 00:00:10.160 signal that you're receiving that you're being 00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:12.779 disapproved by the world, disapproved by these 00:00:12.779 --> 00:00:15.720 people, those people. And so, you know, being 00:00:15.720 --> 00:00:19.359 in a constant state of disapproval starts to 00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:22.399 really wear on your psyche and you wake up and 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:30.210 you're like, oh, everybody hates me today. Today 00:00:30.210 --> 00:00:32.509 we have a really great guest. This should be 00:00:32.509 --> 00:00:35.509 a lot of fun. We have Luke Powell, former West 00:00:35.509 --> 00:00:39.490 Point grad, country music star, and then eventual 00:00:39.490 --> 00:00:43.009 reality star on The Bachelorette, whose life 00:00:43.009 --> 00:00:46.049 got very disrupted along the way and things were 00:00:46.049 --> 00:00:48.049 going in a great trajectory and then all of a 00:00:48.049 --> 00:00:49.890 sudden they were not. Thank you, Luke. Thanks 00:00:49.890 --> 00:00:51.549 for joining us. Can't wait to hear your story. 00:00:52.469 --> 00:00:54.369 Yeah, thanks for having me on, David. Glad to 00:00:54.369 --> 00:00:57.700 be here. So for those of us who live under a 00:00:57.700 --> 00:01:01.579 rock, tell us what The Bachelorette, I've seen 00:01:01.579 --> 00:01:04.980 it, but for others who have not, what's the format 00:01:04.980 --> 00:01:07.420 of the show? How does it work? And how did you 00:01:07.420 --> 00:01:11.120 get involved in that? Yeah, so for those that 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:14.060 don't know, which they probably do, The Bachelorette 00:01:14.060 --> 00:01:16.700 is, or The Bachelor franchise, the format is 00:01:16.700 --> 00:01:20.319 licensed in like 36 countries. It's been in the 00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:23.859 U .S. for on air for like 25 years. ABC carries 00:01:23.859 --> 00:01:28.280 it. And, you know, I was aware of the show as 00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:31.519 a kid in high school and, you know, knew about 00:01:31.519 --> 00:01:34.879 it and those type of things. And then, you know, 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:37.640 fast forward to the point, the window in time 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:40.780 in my life in which somebody submitted my name 00:01:40.780 --> 00:01:43.260 for it. And I was, you know, I was single at 00:01:43.260 --> 00:01:44.980 the time. And they're like, oh, it was actually 00:01:44.980 --> 00:01:48.659 the lady that. She was my hair stylist or my 00:01:48.659 --> 00:01:53.439 hair salon owner. She was like, oh, you know, 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:56.739 you should date this girl, date that girl. She 00:01:56.739 --> 00:01:59.640 was always trying to, you know, play Cupid. And 00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:01.500 then finally she was like, I'll just put you 00:02:01.500 --> 00:02:04.099 on The Bachelor. And so she submitted a file. 00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:08.139 A year later, the producers called and set up 00:02:08.139 --> 00:02:10.599 a meeting. And then, yeah, before you know it, 00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:15.340 I was on a flight to L .A. to join the reality 00:02:15.340 --> 00:02:20.639 TV world, as naive as I was just going into it. 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:24.360 And so I jumped in the deep end. And so we started 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:26.800 filming, and it's about a 12 -week filming process. 00:02:26.979 --> 00:02:30.379 And so that was my introduction into reality 00:02:30.379 --> 00:02:33.780 TV and a little toe in the water as far as just 00:02:33.780 --> 00:02:35.879 what goes on behind the scenes in Hollywood and 00:02:35.879 --> 00:02:40.080 what it's like to rise to 15 minutes of fame. 00:02:41.379 --> 00:02:46.360 and albeit in a format that, which I would learn 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:50.860 later, leaves you very vulnerable to criticism 00:02:50.860 --> 00:02:54.139 from all of the viewers. You know, Leila, we 00:02:54.139 --> 00:02:56.180 talk on the show a lot about how your online 00:02:56.180 --> 00:02:58.259 reputation can be used against you, but what 00:02:58.259 --> 00:03:02.120 if you could take back control? Guess what? What? 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:05.960 Erase .com does exactly that. Are you kidding 00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:08.979 me? They're an online reputation management company 00:03:08.979 --> 00:03:13.099 that is fantastic. They allow you or you to take 00:03:13.099 --> 00:03:15.960 back the power and not let the digital world 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:18.759 decide what is said about you. You know, you 00:03:18.759 --> 00:03:21.159 bring up a good point. Don't let your online 00:03:21.159 --> 00:03:23.500 past define your future. These folks, they should 00:03:23.500 --> 00:03:25.539 call the experts at Erase .com because they can 00:03:25.539 --> 00:03:28.639 help. Like they helped us? They sure did. And 00:03:28.639 --> 00:03:31.379 because you listen to Erase, if you just type 00:03:31.379 --> 00:03:34.680 in the promo code ERASED10, you will receive 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:37.680 10 % off these amazing services that help you 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:40.259 take back your power. That's a great deal. Reference 00:03:40.259 --> 00:03:43.460 promo code ERASED10. You can get a 10 % discount 00:03:43.460 --> 00:03:46.219 off their services. I like it. Do it now. Do 00:03:46.219 --> 00:03:50.159 it now. Because, you know, they live vicariously 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:53.099 through these folks that are off the street, 00:03:53.180 --> 00:03:55.300 casted, you know, just, you know. quote unquote 00:03:55.300 --> 00:03:57.379 normal people, everyday people that are single 00:03:57.379 --> 00:04:00.199 and casted to go on these shows. And then they 00:04:00.199 --> 00:04:04.259 have this sense of, you know, reality and relational 00:04:04.259 --> 00:04:09.099 expectations and social schemas of what is expected. 00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:13.539 And then the producers have their job to create 00:04:13.539 --> 00:04:17.399 a dramatic television show that gets great ratings 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:20.319 and keeps people coming back. And so if that 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:24.819 is at the cost of your reputation. or those type 00:04:24.819 --> 00:04:27.540 of things, you waive all of your rights for what 00:04:27.540 --> 00:04:31.060 your reputation would look like, your image might 00:04:31.060 --> 00:04:34.120 look like at the end of these filming and airing 00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:38.019 shows. So it was quite a ride. What year are 00:04:38.019 --> 00:04:42.100 we talking about? So this was 2016 when I did 00:04:42.100 --> 00:04:46.319 the first reality show. And we filmed from March 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:51.540 through May in 2016, and then it aired that summer. 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:55.500 What's the format? How does it work? Yeah, so 00:04:55.500 --> 00:04:58.759 the format is there will be, for The Bachelorette, 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:04.600 it's one woman and usually 25 to 30 guys that 00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:07.800 come there. They start filming and then she narrows 00:05:07.800 --> 00:05:11.569 it down to one who then... Usually ends up in 00:05:11.569 --> 00:05:15.750 a proposal for marriage after the 12 -week filming 00:05:15.750 --> 00:05:19.689 process. And then they do the other way as well 00:05:19.689 --> 00:05:23.170 where there's a bachelor and 25 or 30 women come 00:05:23.170 --> 00:05:25.470 on and do the same thing. So then they have an 00:05:25.470 --> 00:05:28.370 island spinoff show where it's basically musical 00:05:28.370 --> 00:05:32.449 chairs of people where there's 10 guys and 10 00:05:32.449 --> 00:05:35.959 girls. nine guys and ten girls and somebody's 00:05:35.959 --> 00:05:37.980 somebody's left out and so they whittle that 00:05:37.980 --> 00:05:40.540 down it's a another spin -off concept they have 00:05:40.540 --> 00:05:44.399 um but yeah i would say i would use a word of 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:47.060 caution for anybody who wants to put their their 00:05:47.060 --> 00:05:49.860 love life their personal life uh into the the 00:05:49.860 --> 00:05:52.920 public world and susceptible for all that criticism 00:05:52.920 --> 00:05:56.019 but you were you were open to love i suppose 00:05:56.019 --> 00:06:01.459 absolutely open to love yeah aren't we all you 00:06:01.459 --> 00:06:09.050 know just uh desperate 28 -year -old guys, like, 00:06:09.069 --> 00:06:11.889 oh, maybe this will work. Let me just go on a 00:06:11.889 --> 00:06:15.730 TV show and see if I can find somebody that I 00:06:15.730 --> 00:06:20.550 can be married to. So what were you doing at 00:06:20.550 --> 00:06:24.009 the time? Yeah, at the time, I had been working 00:06:24.009 --> 00:06:28.560 for a business consulting firm. and College Station, 00:06:28.660 --> 00:06:31.120 Texas. Yeah, we just, we consulted. I was doing 00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:34.620 sales. We did consulting programs and behavioral 00:06:34.620 --> 00:06:37.339 leadership programs for Fortune 500 companies. 00:06:37.620 --> 00:06:40.379 And I was, you know, had been in the corporate 00:06:40.379 --> 00:06:44.180 world, exited the military a few years prior 00:06:44.180 --> 00:06:48.160 to that. And so I was just really, you know, 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:51.279 after my time in the military, I was, you know, 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:54.160 really just, I guess, you know, experiencing 00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:56.980 what it was like to just be free from the restrictions 00:06:56.980 --> 00:06:59.500 of the military deployments and all those things. 00:06:59.699 --> 00:07:03.139 And I was just living life and taking any opportunity 00:07:03.139 --> 00:07:06.120 to experience life and try new things. And I 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:11.000 definitely got a full dose of new things in reality 00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:16.259 TV. So I imagine you were not unsuccessful in 00:07:16.259 --> 00:07:19.980 the more conventional dating world, but you decided, 00:07:20.220 --> 00:07:22.980 and somebody threw your hat in the ring. How 00:07:22.980 --> 00:07:26.819 many candidates were there for, how many, positions 00:07:26.819 --> 00:07:28.500 are there? How many batch, how many potential 00:07:28.500 --> 00:07:32.839 other contenders? Yeah. Yeah. So I think there 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:37.579 was like 28 on, on my, on my season. And there 00:07:37.579 --> 00:07:40.819 was, you know, one girl and 28 guys. And then, 00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:42.480 you know, you go through the first night and 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:45.399 she meets everyone for, you know, I don't know, 00:07:45.399 --> 00:07:47.639 a three minute conversation, something like that. 00:07:47.740 --> 00:07:50.579 And then within that first night, I think they 00:07:50.579 --> 00:07:54.370 probably cut almost half of those. um out and 00:07:54.370 --> 00:07:56.529 then and then they continue on and then over 00:07:56.529 --> 00:07:58.769 the next couple of weeks everyone gets you know 00:07:58.769 --> 00:08:03.470 a date um with the bachelor ed and get to spend 00:08:03.470 --> 00:08:05.750 more quality time with them try to get to know 00:08:05.750 --> 00:08:09.290 them a little bit and uh but as you could imagine 00:08:09.290 --> 00:08:11.550 uh i tell people you know they're always asking 00:08:11.550 --> 00:08:13.329 me you know what's it like and if i was to give 00:08:13.329 --> 00:08:17.009 the shortest uh you know succinct version of 00:08:17.009 --> 00:08:20.120 it um I tell people it's like Hunger Games, but 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:27.360 nobody dies. The production side of it is built 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:31.420 to get an outcome. If you watch multiple seasons, 00:08:31.620 --> 00:08:35.259 you'll start seeing the threads and the themes 00:08:35.259 --> 00:08:38.019 that they work with that begin to replicate. 00:08:38.059 --> 00:08:40.059 They work with the audience and they'll do it 00:08:40.059 --> 00:08:42.259 year after year with just different characters 00:08:42.259 --> 00:08:47.740 that they cast. Luckily, my experience... I was 00:08:47.740 --> 00:08:50.759 kind of the, I don't know what you would call 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:56.360 it, kind of the Cinderella story. You know, I 00:08:56.360 --> 00:08:59.679 wasn't the front runner, but I was kind of, you 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:02.659 know, I came in fourth. You know, now you have 00:09:02.659 --> 00:09:06.000 to place, there's a hierarchy here. And so when 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:08.299 it comes down to the end of it, I was fourth 00:09:08.299 --> 00:09:11.580 from last of getting eliminated from the show. 00:09:13.129 --> 00:09:16.669 I had a great what they call an edit. Everything 00:09:16.669 --> 00:09:19.750 was positive. Obviously, my military background 00:09:19.750 --> 00:09:24.830 was highlighted. I was the quintessential small 00:09:24.830 --> 00:09:27.769 -town kid from Texas. They highlighted all that 00:09:27.769 --> 00:09:32.730 portion of my background. They build a character 00:09:32.730 --> 00:09:37.309 for everyone. I was riding high when it came 00:09:37.309 --> 00:09:40.909 off of that show because they were so favorable 00:09:40.909 --> 00:09:44.000 with the edit. you know, who I was and felt like 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:47.080 I was like larger than life character watching 00:09:47.080 --> 00:09:50.799 it back. And then, you know, it's funny. I did 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:55.179 a spinoff show a couple years later. And I'll 00:09:55.179 --> 00:09:57.639 be it was great, great time. It was fun. It was 00:09:57.639 --> 00:09:59.820 actually more entertaining and, you know, more 00:09:59.820 --> 00:10:02.639 engaging than what I did at the Bachelorette. 00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:04.480 It's called Bachelor Winter Games, where they 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:06.879 brought international candidates in to come and 00:10:06.879 --> 00:10:10.169 their people are. It's kind of a parody on Olympic, 00:10:10.389 --> 00:10:13.789 Winter Olympic sports. And then they weave in 00:10:13.789 --> 00:10:17.690 the love angles, love triangle angles and those 00:10:17.690 --> 00:10:21.529 type of things as well. And so it was actually 00:10:21.529 --> 00:10:22.850 entertaining. So I don't know if you guys can 00:10:22.850 --> 00:10:25.029 probably find it on YouTube. It's somewhere out 00:10:25.029 --> 00:10:26.870 there. But they take a bunch of people who are 00:10:26.870 --> 00:10:29.169 not actual athletes. They're just bachelor candidates 00:10:29.169 --> 00:10:32.909 from previous bachelor shows and mix them all 00:10:32.909 --> 00:10:35.690 together. And there was, you know, I think there 00:10:35.690 --> 00:10:37.590 was 11 or 12 countries there. So there was... 00:10:37.870 --> 00:10:40.690 There was folks from Asia, Australia, all these 00:10:40.690 --> 00:10:43.690 different continents that were represented there, 00:10:43.750 --> 00:10:46.850 Germany, Russia. I mean, it was Belarus. It was 00:10:46.850 --> 00:10:50.230 a really crazy experience, a lot of language 00:10:50.230 --> 00:10:53.789 barriers, the people trying to also actually 00:10:53.789 --> 00:10:56.309 date and put themselves out there on the show. 00:10:56.750 --> 00:11:00.289 And not athletic at all, but they filmed every 00:11:00.289 --> 00:11:03.429 part of that. I was figure skating, which people 00:11:03.429 --> 00:11:05.669 can find that. on youtube yeah i got coached 00:11:05.669 --> 00:11:08.529 by nancy kerrigan actually for a couple of days 00:11:08.529 --> 00:11:13.710 my second time on ice skates in my life and they 00:11:13.710 --> 00:11:17.250 tried to make a little routine out of it so it 00:11:17.250 --> 00:11:21.169 was fun but you didn't you did it well you didn't 00:11:21.169 --> 00:11:24.970 wipe out uh no i definitely did wipe out yeah 00:11:24.970 --> 00:11:28.210 no i was you know looking at stitches on my chin 00:11:28.210 --> 00:11:31.210 by the end of it i was always curious how they 00:11:31.210 --> 00:11:34.370 select these um bachelors and bachelorettes and 00:11:34.370 --> 00:11:37.230 I know we'll talk about your opportunity eventually 00:11:37.230 --> 00:11:41.529 you were potentially going to be a bachelor how 00:11:41.529 --> 00:11:43.409 do they find these people I mean are they like 00:11:43.409 --> 00:11:46.629 esteemed human beings like in every which way 00:11:46.629 --> 00:11:49.889 and all the bachelors fall in love with this 00:11:49.889 --> 00:11:51.850 woman like what if there's no chemistry there 00:11:51.850 --> 00:11:55.029 how does that even work yeah I mean I think that's 00:11:55.029 --> 00:11:58.850 part of the production piece of it right And 00:11:58.850 --> 00:12:02.049 we can all do a reality check to looking through 00:12:02.049 --> 00:12:04.809 the lens of what it's like in the real world, 00:12:04.870 --> 00:12:07.809 if you will, and realizing that, you know, how 00:12:07.809 --> 00:12:11.950 fragile relationships are and how much the chemistry 00:12:11.950 --> 00:12:14.929 matters and if it was actually to work out. And 00:12:14.929 --> 00:12:16.710 so, you know, we've all got, you know, dating 00:12:16.710 --> 00:12:19.450 experience and however you found your spouse 00:12:19.450 --> 00:12:23.980 and you know that that was not just. for most 00:12:23.980 --> 00:12:26.259 people, not just the first one that you ever 00:12:26.259 --> 00:12:28.820 met, first person you ever dated. It didn't always 00:12:28.820 --> 00:12:31.580 just work out like that. Everybody has things 00:12:31.580 --> 00:12:33.879 that work, things that don't. And so going on 00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:36.840 the show, you know, they usually, after they 00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:39.080 built some character or built the characters 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:42.059 out, they're kind of the profile out from doing 00:12:42.059 --> 00:12:44.340 an original show. Maybe they were, for me, I 00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:46.759 was one of 30 guys and then I was the top four. 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:48.500 So I got a lot of screen time throughout that 00:12:48.500 --> 00:12:51.450 bachelorette filming. And so, and like I said, 00:12:51.509 --> 00:12:53.789 a favorable edit. So then when they go to roll 00:12:53.789 --> 00:12:56.350 over to the next season, which is when they switch 00:12:56.350 --> 00:13:00.570 back to, it'd be a bachelor and 30 women, they'll 00:13:00.570 --> 00:13:05.470 usually, they would try to pick a cast member 00:13:05.470 --> 00:13:09.149 that had some credibility with the audience and 00:13:09.149 --> 00:13:12.909 had screen time from previous shows so that the 00:13:12.909 --> 00:13:16.539 audience is not having to connect with. you know 00:13:16.539 --> 00:13:19.940 that that lead cast member um just cold turkey 00:13:19.940 --> 00:13:22.700 they've got something to go off of some some 00:13:22.700 --> 00:13:25.820 uh anticipation of knowing them from past season 00:13:25.820 --> 00:13:30.080 a past season that type of thing and so um so 00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:31.980 you go through a few months and they try to recast 00:13:31.980 --> 00:13:34.899 and so i was part of that process of getting 00:13:34.899 --> 00:13:38.200 recasted to go be the bachelor which would have 00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:41.659 filmed in that that fall following um the bachelorette 00:13:41.659 --> 00:13:44.139 that i was on and so there was a couple other 00:13:44.139 --> 00:13:47.340 folks that as as well had some previous shows 00:13:47.340 --> 00:13:51.179 that they were on and they were cast. And I heard 00:13:51.179 --> 00:13:54.279 the last minute ended up not being casted to 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:57.519 be on there. But I think definitely everything 00:13:57.519 --> 00:14:00.340 happens for a reason. And I'm actually thankful 00:14:00.340 --> 00:14:04.740 that that did not end up happening. Why? You 00:14:04.740 --> 00:14:07.080 know, I think, you know, as I look back at it, 00:14:07.100 --> 00:14:09.279 I was open at the time. But as I look back at 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:12.740 it, my personal life, you know, I'm a man of 00:14:12.740 --> 00:14:18.919 faith. You know, it's just, it's so fabricated. 00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:23.039 You know, you're crossing the lines of fabricating 00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:26.240 your personal life for the sake of TV ratings, 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:28.360 right? And you're just leaving yourself vulnerable 00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:31.019 to that. And so when you're trying to make those 00:14:31.019 --> 00:14:36.259 decisions and be thoughtful and prayerful and 00:14:36.259 --> 00:14:39.559 self -reflective about who you're with and the 00:14:39.559 --> 00:14:42.240 plans that you're making to spend your life with 00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:45.850 somebody. When you're doing it in front of TV 00:14:45.850 --> 00:14:51.789 cameras with producers that are running narratives 00:14:51.789 --> 00:14:56.309 that they need to get and interviewing you. It's 00:14:56.309 --> 00:14:59.629 not a moment where you can grow a relationship 00:14:59.629 --> 00:15:05.480 truly and know the person that you're... you're 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:10.320 dating in that environment. So I think there's 00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:13.519 been a lot of, and history shows that even through 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:15.879 that format, there's a lot of failed relationships. 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:19.779 There was a few that serendipitously made it 00:15:19.779 --> 00:15:23.759 through. God bless those folks that actually 00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:26.179 met somebody on that show and they were able 00:15:26.179 --> 00:15:29.320 to stay with them and have a long -lasting marriage 00:15:29.320 --> 00:15:32.320 and a relationship. There's a guy that everyone 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:34.899 remembers. His name is Sean Lowe. Him and his 00:15:34.899 --> 00:15:38.059 wife, Catherine, met on that TV show. He lives 00:15:38.059 --> 00:15:42.399 here in Dallas. They've got four kids now. They 00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:46.279 just have a beautiful family. uh, for several 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:48.539 years. And so, you know, there's about one out 00:15:48.539 --> 00:15:51.000 of 10 or something like that, those relationships 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:54.120 from the TV show that will eventually, you know, 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:56.639 make it in the real world. And so, um, you know, 00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:59.820 it's just, uh, you gotta be careful with it and 00:15:59.820 --> 00:16:02.419 be thoughtful about it. So, so there's a lot 00:16:02.419 --> 00:16:04.659 of fabrication going on and you referenced that 00:16:04.659 --> 00:16:07.279 you saw yourself on screen and you're larger 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:09.460 than life. And it's like, yeah, what was that? 00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:13.120 That's gotta be a strange feeling. Like, What 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:15.799 does that feel like to see yourself with like, 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:19.779 wow, that's like an Uber me. Yeah, David, it's 00:16:19.779 --> 00:16:22.539 funny. I've experienced the highs and the lows 00:16:22.539 --> 00:16:25.100 of it, both sides of it. So I came up with that 00:16:25.100 --> 00:16:27.799 first experience and I had that very favorable 00:16:27.799 --> 00:16:30.159 edit I was telling you about. And you're like, 00:16:30.220 --> 00:16:32.919 man, I mean, it's really flattering, right? You're 00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:35.679 like, man, this is crazy. I feel like I'm a movie 00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:39.700 star for a quick moment. And you're seeing yourself 00:16:39.700 --> 00:16:43.529 on screen. You're like, this is... wild and then 00:16:43.529 --> 00:16:46.929 you know you're getting all now they about halfway 00:16:46.929 --> 00:16:50.409 through this show the full running of it say 00:16:50.409 --> 00:16:54.429 it's 25 years been airing uh 2012 somewhere social 00:16:54.429 --> 00:16:58.370 media came on on you know 2012 2014 but right 00:16:58.370 --> 00:17:02.110 before i came on social media became another 00:17:02.110 --> 00:17:05.109 factor and right and so previously to that it 00:17:05.109 --> 00:17:06.809 was like what are the tabloids at the grocery 00:17:06.809 --> 00:17:10.369 store or you know maybe e -news or some outlet 00:17:10.369 --> 00:17:13.170 like that would be the limited way that the audience 00:17:13.170 --> 00:17:16.329 could connect with these people outside of you 00:17:16.329 --> 00:17:19.430 know those episodes that aired for the show and 00:17:19.430 --> 00:17:22.269 so then social media became another outlet in 00:17:22.269 --> 00:17:24.289 a way that they could directly connect with these 00:17:24.289 --> 00:17:27.650 cast members and follow them after they filmed 00:17:27.650 --> 00:17:31.480 on the show and uh and so you know, I was in 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:33.519 the middle of that, that kind of social media 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:35.740 boom or Instagram followers and all those things. 00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:38.720 So you're getting, you're getting real time interaction 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:42.579 from fans of the show straight to your, straight 00:17:42.579 --> 00:17:44.099 to your social media, straight to your phone. 00:17:44.539 --> 00:17:46.619 And so, you know, I was just, I was sitting there 00:17:46.619 --> 00:17:49.200 with these shows airing and I'm getting six figures 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:52.240 of followers on my Instagram, like after each 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:54.220 episode, I'm like a hundred thousand, another 00:17:54.220 --> 00:17:57.990 200 ,000, 300 ,000, 400 ,000. and it's just going 00:17:57.990 --> 00:18:00.869 up and you've got people dming you some for business 00:18:00.869 --> 00:18:03.589 inquiries and to do appearances and you know 00:18:03.589 --> 00:18:06.549 they start trying to monetize you as a celebrity 00:18:06.549 --> 00:18:09.630 and then you've got people that actually are 00:18:09.630 --> 00:18:12.009 delusional enough or you know whatever it is 00:18:12.009 --> 00:18:14.329 to reach out to you and they think they can date 00:18:14.329 --> 00:18:17.470 you you know and so your your dms just get full 00:18:17.470 --> 00:18:20.390 with all of these propositions of like just everybody 00:18:20.390 --> 00:18:23.809 just is following the hype and they want to be 00:18:23.809 --> 00:18:27.970 a part of you know something that's famous, something 00:18:27.970 --> 00:18:29.670 that, you know, that fame that they're chasing 00:18:29.670 --> 00:18:32.710 and they want to be around it. And so, you know, 00:18:32.710 --> 00:18:36.750 I experienced that side of it as well. And which 00:18:36.750 --> 00:18:39.690 I think really is probably the toughest part. 00:18:39.789 --> 00:18:42.130 It starts to cloud your judgment. It kind of, 00:18:42.170 --> 00:18:45.269 your self -awareness starts to grow and evolve 00:18:45.269 --> 00:18:48.769 in different ways. And so it's a challenge, I 00:18:48.769 --> 00:18:53.400 think, for people that have to, you know, Everybody's 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:55.140 coming from a different place, a different point 00:18:55.140 --> 00:18:58.960 in life. In college, I majored in sociology. 00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:02.359 Obviously, from West Point, my time in the military, 00:19:02.539 --> 00:19:04.940 I had a lot of leadership training. Even at that 00:19:04.940 --> 00:19:07.460 consulting firm I worked with for business consulting, 00:19:07.619 --> 00:19:09.579 we talked about self -awareness and behavioral 00:19:09.579 --> 00:19:12.619 profiles. You might see a Myers -Briggs or a 00:19:12.619 --> 00:19:15.339 StrengthsFinder behavioral profile if you've 00:19:15.339 --> 00:19:18.539 seen that. I went into the show with a pretty 00:19:18.539 --> 00:19:23.410 good foundation of self -awareness. a sociological 00:19:23.410 --> 00:19:26.650 perspective on looking at, you know, what the 00:19:26.650 --> 00:19:29.730 implications of this could be on a person's, 00:19:29.730 --> 00:19:32.710 you know, mind, their lifestyle, all those things. 00:19:32.869 --> 00:19:36.269 And even still, I found myself getting wrapped 00:19:36.269 --> 00:19:38.730 up in the hype and wrapped up in the attention 00:19:38.730 --> 00:19:42.369 and the flattery of it all. And, you know, once 00:19:42.369 --> 00:19:44.930 you've experienced that full cycle, I would say, 00:19:44.990 --> 00:19:47.430 and years later, years pass where I, you know, 00:19:47.430 --> 00:19:50.410 I declined to keep going back into that world 00:19:50.410 --> 00:19:54.160 and doing more shows. uh and and the fame starts 00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:57.259 to fade the new faces come in and it's a revolving 00:19:57.259 --> 00:20:00.019 door of you know new celebrities in that reality 00:20:00.019 --> 00:20:03.599 world and so i began to see the quality of their 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:05.539 relationships that were getting built during 00:20:05.539 --> 00:20:08.160 that time you know it's just they're like sharks 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:10.420 in the water just people are coming to you they 00:20:10.420 --> 00:20:12.839 want to be your manager your book your booking 00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:15.640 agent they want to you know even the personal 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:17.700 relationship people wanted to date you but not 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:20.640 you're like who wants to actually date who I 00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:22.579 am and get to know me as a person have a quality 00:20:22.579 --> 00:20:24.319 relationship no they just want to they want to 00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:26.619 be close to the fame for a little bit the potential 00:20:26.619 --> 00:20:28.900 of being more famous or the hype or whatever 00:20:28.900 --> 00:20:32.380 and they're not genuinely authentically looking 00:20:32.380 --> 00:20:36.059 to have a relationship with you business or personal 00:20:36.059 --> 00:20:39.519 and uh 99 % of the time you know there's a few 00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:41.299 out there that you obviously would meet because 00:20:41.299 --> 00:20:44.759 of that but Having to learn how to filter through 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:47.900 that and be discerning in the relationships and 00:20:47.900 --> 00:20:49.740 the people that you let get close in your circle 00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:52.680 was probably one of the biggest challenges and 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:54.720 things that I kind of had to learn the hard way. 00:20:55.220 --> 00:20:58.579 So there's like a tape delay in a way. I mean, 00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:01.319 they shoot the episode and then it's, I guess, 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:03.480 weeks or months later before the episodes actually 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:07.589 are seen by the public? Yeah, it's about a month 00:21:07.589 --> 00:21:10.829 on the post -edit turnaround before the first 00:21:10.829 --> 00:21:14.009 episode comes out. And then, of course, it airs 00:21:14.009 --> 00:21:19.369 for, what, two months or so. It airs every week 00:21:19.369 --> 00:21:21.670 for, yeah, I guess there's about 12 episodes 00:21:21.670 --> 00:21:25.190 that air. So when the first episode is coming 00:21:25.190 --> 00:21:27.779 out, you're still shooting, though? It hasn't 00:21:27.779 --> 00:21:30.619 racked? No, no, right at the, like, the first 00:21:30.619 --> 00:21:33.299 episode comes out, and you've just finished shooting, 00:21:33.339 --> 00:21:35.099 like, maybe a couple week turnaround from the 00:21:35.099 --> 00:21:38.339 last episode. And then the first episode is then 00:21:38.339 --> 00:21:40.880 out. Oh, so only a couple week lag, basically. 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:43.779 Yeah, from the last filming episode to the first 00:21:43.779 --> 00:21:46.619 airing episode. So then, yeah, so then you've 00:21:46.619 --> 00:21:50.039 got another 12 week run of the airing of the 00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:52.599 shows, and you're already complete with filming 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:56.349 throughout that. And you're, and you're, I guess 00:21:56.349 --> 00:21:59.910 your Instagram is blowing up, basically. Yeah, 00:21:59.910 --> 00:22:03.950 well, it is. Yeah, during that time, every time 00:22:03.950 --> 00:22:06.470 it airs, every time there's a TV spot, of course, 00:22:06.470 --> 00:22:09.650 they do their own publicity for the show and 00:22:09.650 --> 00:22:14.569 those type of things. And so if you're on a TV 00:22:14.569 --> 00:22:19.450 spot or they'll run an ad or, you know. all those 00:22:19.450 --> 00:22:20.910 different things, or even though run traditional 00:22:20.910 --> 00:22:23.390 print and you're, you know, I was, I walk in 00:22:23.390 --> 00:22:25.890 and see my, my face in the grocery store at Kroger, 00:22:25.970 --> 00:22:28.250 just to see my face on the tabloid, you know, 00:22:28.250 --> 00:22:29.529 like they're like, Oh, is Luke going to be the 00:22:29.529 --> 00:22:31.369 new bachelor? And I'm like, man, this is wild. 00:22:31.589 --> 00:22:34.910 What am I? I'm in a grocery store. So, um, it's 00:22:34.910 --> 00:22:37.250 just, just the peak of that, just that quick 00:22:37.250 --> 00:22:40.589 rise. And then of course it turns over relatively 00:22:40.589 --> 00:22:44.789 quickly, you know? Um, so you're a man of faith 00:22:44.789 --> 00:22:49.519 and, um, as I, as I know, and, And your social 00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:53.400 media is telling you how awesome you are, you 00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:57.599 know. And do you ever have moments like, you 00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:00.240 know, I like myself. I didn't realize I was that 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:03.000 good. And like, wow, I guess I'm really, really 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:06.319 extraordinary. Did you have that conflict, that 00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:09.529 dilemma, that struggle? Yeah. Yeah, David, it 00:23:09.529 --> 00:23:12.329 is. It is. It's an incredible feeling, especially 00:23:12.329 --> 00:23:15.529 from a sociological background. You know, you 00:23:15.529 --> 00:23:20.269 feel this sense of it's just surreal, you know, 00:23:20.309 --> 00:23:22.690 for a moment. And you're like, man, this is what 00:23:22.690 --> 00:23:25.109 it's like to be famous. You can feel that, you 00:23:25.109 --> 00:23:27.750 know, and so people that have that are, you know, 00:23:27.750 --> 00:23:30.170 these folks in real Hollywood, I would say that 00:23:30.170 --> 00:23:32.519 have, you know. They were on Friends or they 00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:34.920 were just some generational character, Jennifer 00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:38.019 Aniston or, you know, these type of people that 00:23:38.019 --> 00:23:40.259 generationally they're just going to be famous. 00:23:40.700 --> 00:23:43.109 When you're in reality, it's like this. quick 00:23:43.109 --> 00:23:47.029 splash in the pan uh for reality tv where you're 00:23:47.029 --> 00:23:49.190 like really famous for a little bit and you know 00:23:49.190 --> 00:23:52.049 famous people might know who you are on a on 00:23:52.049 --> 00:23:55.630 a late night talk show or or whatever and then 00:23:55.630 --> 00:23:58.170 uh and then that moment kind of passes too and 00:23:58.170 --> 00:24:00.490 so then and then for me in the bachelor world 00:24:00.490 --> 00:24:02.890 i went back into that um that spin -off i was 00:24:02.890 --> 00:24:06.470 telling you about and the last for whatever reason 00:24:06.470 --> 00:24:10.470 i caught like a very they took an opportunistic 00:24:10.470 --> 00:24:13.299 time to catch me in a bad edit the last like 00:24:13.299 --> 00:24:16.279 30 seconds of the entire season on a reunion 00:24:16.279 --> 00:24:19.059 show even after it all aired there was a reunion 00:24:19.059 --> 00:24:22.740 show and the producers caught a 30 second period 00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:24.460 of time where they were like well we need to 00:24:24.460 --> 00:24:28.319 spice this up and make this seem like there was 00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:31.019 you know they'll take a pop culture trendy word 00:24:31.019 --> 00:24:33.380 so there's the word ghosting was really popular 00:24:33.380 --> 00:24:37.849 at the time and so they made it seem like i ghosted 00:24:37.849 --> 00:24:40.569 a girl that i had talked to for the two -week 00:24:40.569 --> 00:24:42.569 filming period for that show that we had done 00:24:42.569 --> 00:24:46.170 she was from uh stockholm sweden great girl but 00:24:46.170 --> 00:24:48.490 we had very clearly talked about hey like i've 00:24:48.490 --> 00:24:50.410 only known you for two weeks at this tv show 00:24:50.410 --> 00:24:53.670 you live in stockholm i'm in tennessee and like 00:24:53.670 --> 00:24:55.910 this is not we're not going to pursue this in 00:24:55.910 --> 00:24:58.269 the real world you know and then six weeks later 00:24:58.269 --> 00:25:00.450 they do the reunion show and they make this very 00:25:00.450 --> 00:25:04.720 emotional deal And it's like I ghosted her, never 00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:07.099 called her again, like really let her on. And 00:25:07.099 --> 00:25:09.779 so then, like I was telling you, I saw the volatility 00:25:09.779 --> 00:25:12.960 of it. It's like my Instagram followers, you 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:15.660 know, were up, up, up, up, up. And then as that 00:25:15.660 --> 00:25:19.259 show aired, immediately within the next day, 00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:21.640 I lost like 100 ,000 followers. And people were 00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:23.660 like sending hate mail to my mom. You're a villain. 00:25:24.460 --> 00:25:26.660 I'm a villain. I mean, in 30 seconds of an edit. 00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:28.259 And I didn't even do anything. They just caught 00:25:28.259 --> 00:25:30.990 me like in a commercial break. kind of just staring 00:25:30.990 --> 00:25:33.950 off in the distance in this tv studio and they 00:25:33.950 --> 00:25:37.269 used that edit as as like they used it as like 00:25:37.269 --> 00:25:39.509 the girl was like talking to me very emotional 00:25:39.509 --> 00:25:42.950 while and then they they cut to me while i was 00:25:42.950 --> 00:25:44.630 kind of staring it looked like i was just staring 00:25:44.630 --> 00:25:46.509 while she was just like ignore i was ignoring 00:25:46.509 --> 00:25:49.289 her but it looked like they edited me to do it 00:25:49.289 --> 00:25:51.960 manufactured that oh yeah they manufactured it 00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:55.240 completely i was like man this is this is unbelievable 00:25:55.240 --> 00:25:58.119 that they made it this blatant or whatever i'm 00:25:58.119 --> 00:26:01.039 luke pell you can't do this to luke pell yeah 00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:05.839 yeah yeah it was wild so but i i got i got the 00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:08.640 full spectrum of feeling the highs and the lows 00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:11.259 of reality tv you know and so that was really 00:26:11.259 --> 00:26:15.980 to get back to you know your main theme of the 00:26:15.980 --> 00:26:18.559 cancellation piece of that that was one of those 00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:20.980 big you know at least the initial time which 00:26:20.980 --> 00:26:24.420 I was ever canceled was during that period and 00:26:24.420 --> 00:26:27.900 that spin -off show and I was like wow this can 00:26:27.900 --> 00:26:29.839 really this can turn upside down on you very 00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:32.140 quickly and you really don't have control of 00:26:32.140 --> 00:26:34.680 you know you can be a great person and do the 00:26:34.680 --> 00:26:36.900 best that you can control your image and be positive 00:26:37.450 --> 00:26:39.369 But they can still find a way to, you know, edit 00:26:39.369 --> 00:26:41.250 you because you paid all those rights. You're 00:26:41.250 --> 00:26:44.869 just the cog in the wheel of reality TV. So you 00:26:44.869 --> 00:26:47.809 saw that 30 -second clip at the same time all 00:26:47.809 --> 00:26:51.829 of America saw it. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, 00:26:51.970 --> 00:26:55.549 yeah, it was incredible. Were you alone? Even 00:26:55.549 --> 00:26:58.789 from the filming of it, I was the last one to 00:26:58.789 --> 00:27:01.289 come out. Like, they had a soundstage set up. 00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:04.099 the cast members are sitting there they kind 00:27:04.099 --> 00:27:05.799 of interviewed a few of them and then follow 00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:09.559 -ups and say well who's who's uh you know let's 00:27:09.559 --> 00:27:11.339 catch up with these folks since we finished filming 00:27:11.339 --> 00:27:13.700 where are they at now kind of thing they waited 00:27:13.700 --> 00:27:15.740 to the very end because they kind of had this 00:27:15.740 --> 00:27:18.160 all prepped and they brought me out after they 00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:21.700 had shown and asked the you know the girl sweet 00:27:21.700 --> 00:27:23.640 girl again and it's like we knew each other for 00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:26.200 two weeks of this show but it seemed like you 00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:28.660 know there was this big legitimate you know relationship 00:27:28.660 --> 00:27:31.119 and she they got her to be emotional because 00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:32.920 they knew she they had seen that she would be 00:27:32.920 --> 00:27:36.660 easily emotional and um and so then i walk out 00:27:36.660 --> 00:27:38.700 and i'm like walking out to booze to the live 00:27:38.700 --> 00:27:41.420 audience that's like in the and i'm like what 00:27:41.420 --> 00:27:43.519 what what's going on i did not see it coming 00:27:43.519 --> 00:27:45.839 i was like i'm getting booed by a live audience 00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:48.099 and i don't know why you saw did you see the 00:27:48.099 --> 00:27:50.660 clip at least had you had the benefits on the 00:27:50.660 --> 00:27:54.539 clip they shown it they showed a clip to the 00:27:54.539 --> 00:27:57.460 live audience and had, you know, and the guy, 00:27:57.519 --> 00:27:58.859 you know, Chris Harrison, which everybody knows 00:27:58.859 --> 00:28:00.900 was famous for the show for a long time. That's 00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:03.259 the host. He had interviewed and asked that the, 00:28:03.299 --> 00:28:06.480 the girl, um, it asked her, you know, a couple 00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:08.400 of questions and she started kind of getting 00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:09.980 emotional and said, I haven't heard from him 00:28:09.980 --> 00:28:12.240 since then. I thought we were going to be like 00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:14.920 a big thing. And, and so then I walk out from 00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:16.980 behind the curtain and the crowd just like, they're 00:28:16.980 --> 00:28:19.799 just had them so teed up, ready to just boo me. 00:28:20.339 --> 00:28:26.490 Uh, it was, uh, Oh yeah. It was wild. But anyway, 00:28:26.750 --> 00:28:33.309 good times. So that was the beginning of your 00:28:33.309 --> 00:28:36.829 cancellation journey, in effect. Yeah, for sure. 00:28:37.049 --> 00:28:40.490 And then much later on, now I've got the social 00:28:40.490 --> 00:28:43.430 media following, even leaving that, lost followers 00:28:43.430 --> 00:28:47.829 for that one event. But then as I spoke to politics 00:28:47.829 --> 00:28:51.700 or truly, I went through an evolution. Again, 00:28:51.779 --> 00:28:53.859 back to this kind of self -awareness and learning 00:28:53.859 --> 00:28:59.140 myself and understanding that my window to the 00:28:59.140 --> 00:29:02.799 world and my voice to the world is through my 00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:04.880 social media channels after that experience. 00:29:05.819 --> 00:29:08.240 Whatever, a few hundred thousand, half a million 00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:11.599 people, whatever that watch what I do in my life. 00:29:11.779 --> 00:29:15.880 Then for that time, there was a time in there 00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:19.720 where I felt the pressure to post things and 00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:22.869 curate. those feeds to what the audience would 00:29:22.869 --> 00:29:26.509 like right and then before this incident or after 00:29:26.509 --> 00:29:30.529 no after after you're trying to repair well repair 00:29:30.529 --> 00:29:34.670 and then just a sense of like it's built so that 00:29:34.670 --> 00:29:39.759 um you're getting approval or lack of for what 00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:44.039 you post right and so your post then my post 00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:46.180 became like well i don't want to post anything 00:29:46.180 --> 00:29:49.619 too controversial because if i do then i might 00:29:49.619 --> 00:29:52.000 get cancelled again or i might get more negative 00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:54.920 feedback and so you start thinking about well 00:29:54.920 --> 00:29:57.440 let me post you know something a little bit more 00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:01.000 vanilla or more politically correct or not too 00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:04.440 polarizing so that we'll get a lot of likes it'll 00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:08.910 be a very nice post but It won't hurt me if I 00:30:08.910 --> 00:30:11.369 want to monetize these followers and do some 00:30:11.369 --> 00:30:14.990 type of ads or whatever. And so I went through 00:30:14.990 --> 00:30:17.910 that phase and I started feeling really just 00:30:17.910 --> 00:30:21.450 discontent with myself. I said, I don't feel 00:30:21.450 --> 00:30:26.849 comfortable to post who I really am. Even at 00:30:26.849 --> 00:30:31.190 my best, I feel like I have to filter it to get 00:30:31.190 --> 00:30:34.359 accepted by these. four or five hundred thousand 00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:38.559 people that are watching my stuff. And so I really, 00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:40.299 you know, that was one of the biggest things 00:30:40.299 --> 00:30:42.380 that now I look back and I'm glad that I was 00:30:42.380 --> 00:30:44.299 able to see that and come through it because 00:30:44.299 --> 00:30:46.779 I think a lot of people get tied up in that. 00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:50.200 And even, you know, Hollywood, I can see where 00:30:50.200 --> 00:30:54.240 they, their entire careers. are about being curated 00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:56.539 to what the audience wants, what the manager 00:30:56.539 --> 00:31:01.240 wants, whatever their network wants to be put 00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:03.839 out there as a message. And so I got to understand 00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:07.779 that firsthand and really get back in touch with 00:31:07.779 --> 00:31:10.460 the reality of being myself and being authentic 00:31:10.460 --> 00:31:13.799 to what I post, regardless of if I lose 100 ,000 00:31:13.799 --> 00:31:17.339 followers. I'm like, well, it's truly my voice. 00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:20.859 And I'm going to use it to the best of my ability 00:31:20.859 --> 00:31:23.799 for positive things in the world to make an impact. 00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:28.380 And if a portion of that audience doesn't want 00:31:28.380 --> 00:31:30.160 to follow me because of it or they have negative 00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:33.799 comments, that's fine. I don't care. And so I 00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:37.220 finally got through that portion and so got on 00:31:37.220 --> 00:31:39.079 the other side of it. How long was that period 00:31:39.079 --> 00:31:43.579 to work through that process? I think it was 00:31:43.579 --> 00:31:48.599 probably a couple of years. Because I was monetizing, 00:31:48.759 --> 00:31:51.240 you know, and like I said, people started calling 00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:53.200 and the phone rings and they're like, oh, you 00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:55.440 know, come do this appearance or come do, throw 00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:57.779 out the first pitch over here or, you know, they're 00:31:57.779 --> 00:32:01.440 like, you know, doing these things for your presence. 00:32:01.500 --> 00:32:03.519 And so you're like, well, I need to, you know, 00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:06.720 the more followers I have, the more, you know, 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:09.160 valuable I am for these different opportunities. 00:32:09.380 --> 00:32:13.660 And so. when i finally separated from the monetization 00:32:13.660 --> 00:32:16.599 of that in terms of just being the bachelor guy 00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:20.500 and saying well i am what i am who i am you know 00:32:20.500 --> 00:32:23.400 and so i think really kind of during covid i 00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:26.059 started i think you know there was where the 00:32:26.059 --> 00:32:28.200 whole country was getting polarized the whole 00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:31.420 world's getting polarized on and vaccines and 00:32:31.420 --> 00:32:33.960 masking and what your habits were and all these 00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:36.759 things. And so you're getting negative DMs about 00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:38.799 not wearing a mask or you're traveling or what 00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:41.380 you're doing on your social media. And so that 00:32:41.380 --> 00:32:44.759 was a very volatile time of seeing it. And coming 00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:49.700 out of that, I had kind of given up on the monetization 00:32:49.700 --> 00:32:52.339 of social media and said, I'm going to be who 00:32:52.339 --> 00:32:55.940 I am. I'm not going to depend on this as an income 00:32:55.940 --> 00:33:01.440 stream anymore. If there's a brand, if there's 00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:03.440 a social media audience that's aligned with who 00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:06.779 I am, then great. But if I have to recycle all 00:33:06.779 --> 00:33:10.559 of these TV fans that are just fictitious fans 00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:14.339 anyway that see me as a reality TV character 00:33:14.339 --> 00:33:18.079 in the light that they edited me, then that's 00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:20.380 fine. I'll have to turn all those fans over and 00:33:20.380 --> 00:33:23.519 just move on with my life and worry about a family 00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:26.799 and a real legacy. in my non -profits that i 00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:29.460 really have a passion for to make real impact 00:33:29.460 --> 00:33:33.359 and and change lives and and and i learned there's 00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:36.579 so much more than just appeasing an audience 00:33:36.579 --> 00:33:40.019 on social media so during that two -year period 00:33:40.019 --> 00:33:42.980 um must have been very it sounds like it was 00:33:42.980 --> 00:33:46.200 a very confusing time you know what's going on 00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:49.059 who am i what am i doing here how did i get here 00:33:49.059 --> 00:33:51.559 what's my mission and purpose you know trying 00:33:51.559 --> 00:33:54.700 to find your grounding you know um did it get 00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:58.240 dark did it how bad did it get how what was your 00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:00.599 or your lowest moments if you don't mind sharing 00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:05.019 yeah I think just some of my lowest moments where 00:34:05.019 --> 00:34:08.679 you know I was I was I had gotten wrapped up 00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:12.420 in it and I'm a person that I'm competitive I 00:34:12.420 --> 00:34:16.840 want to be really good at what I do um I'm also 00:34:16.840 --> 00:34:19.800 for those that are familiar I'm an Enneagram 00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:24.199 three so I want to I know Enneagrams sure In 00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:29.699 Enneagram 3, you have this propensity to be a 00:34:29.699 --> 00:34:32.519 chameleon. You want to be liked. You want your 00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:36.980 reputation to be clean. You're aware of that 00:34:36.980 --> 00:34:39.699 and what others think of you. I think it's even 00:34:39.699 --> 00:34:43.860 more difficult in that world to separate yourself 00:34:43.860 --> 00:34:46.940 from wanting to be liked by your social media 00:34:46.940 --> 00:34:51.619 followers. But when you dig back into the roots 00:34:51.619 --> 00:34:55.840 of it, I was depressed. I was in depression. 00:34:56.119 --> 00:34:59.800 I was like, ah, I mean, waking up every day and 00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:03.940 I can't, if I say what I want to say, then there's 00:35:03.940 --> 00:35:06.880 these negative comments and just you're losing 00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:09.840 followers. It's just this constant signal that 00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:12.300 you're receiving that you're being disapproved 00:35:12.300 --> 00:35:14.579 by the world, disapproved by these people, those 00:35:14.579 --> 00:35:18.949 people. and so you know being in a constant state 00:35:18.949 --> 00:35:21.989 of disapproval starts to really wear on your 00:35:21.989 --> 00:35:24.670 your psyche and you you wake up and you're like 00:35:24.670 --> 00:35:28.869 man oh everybody hates me today you know and 00:35:28.869 --> 00:35:31.289 so if you're not able to separate your personal 00:35:31.289 --> 00:35:36.269 value from what trolls online or just random 00:35:36.269 --> 00:35:38.809 people all over the world that don't really know 00:35:38.809 --> 00:35:42.070 you but they have the access to comment and and 00:35:42.070 --> 00:35:45.769 get inside your head or message you or go on 00:35:45.769 --> 00:35:49.730 blogs and all these things it's like it's like 00:35:49.730 --> 00:35:52.590 i feel one of the darkest places anybody could 00:35:52.590 --> 00:35:55.889 ever go for their their self -worth is if it's 00:35:55.889 --> 00:35:59.090 not you know lock solid is to go into reddit 00:35:59.090 --> 00:36:02.389 you go into some reddit threads and just look 00:36:02.389 --> 00:36:05.989 yourself up You know, golly, I mean, that's the 00:36:05.989 --> 00:36:09.289 quickest way to just, you know, go in a very 00:36:09.289 --> 00:36:13.710 dark hole. It's just absolute, just a world of 00:36:13.710 --> 00:36:16.570 just trolls and just criticism and just gossip 00:36:16.570 --> 00:36:20.349 and just allegations and everything's negative 00:36:20.349 --> 00:36:23.809 and just piling on. It's wild. To this day, is 00:36:23.809 --> 00:36:27.070 there any particular post in Reddit or otherwise 00:36:27.070 --> 00:36:30.329 that still resonates with you and reverberates? 00:36:34.469 --> 00:36:37.510 uh i yeah i think just some of the even some 00:36:37.510 --> 00:36:39.989 of the like the they were naming the threads 00:36:39.989 --> 00:36:44.429 like with versions of my name like luke luke 00:36:44.429 --> 00:36:47.329 from hell or something like that and like they're 00:36:47.329 --> 00:36:51.610 just it's just insane what they were coming up 00:36:51.610 --> 00:36:57.010 with and um it was just absolutely just it was 00:36:57.010 --> 00:36:59.909 just at the time i was like oh i don't want to 00:36:59.909 --> 00:37:03.000 see this and i know that i shouldn't like let 00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:06.780 it affect me but it's hard not to once you read 00:37:06.780 --> 00:37:08.099 those things you're just like i have to just 00:37:08.099 --> 00:37:09.780 put this down and never come back to this again 00:37:09.780 --> 00:37:11.940 because i don't know these people it doesn't 00:37:11.940 --> 00:37:14.340 have anything to do with my value but it is digging 00:37:14.340 --> 00:37:18.000 into me uh in a dark way so when you woke up 00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:19.760 in the morning would you pick up your phone and 00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:23.300 like check it out and see what's going on oh 00:37:23.300 --> 00:37:25.679 yeah there was definitely a period of time yeah 00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:28.219 where i was like you're like it's new it's fresh 00:37:28.219 --> 00:37:30.800 and you're kind of wanting to What are they saying 00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:35.440 now? Until that realization moment, you're like, 00:37:35.539 --> 00:37:38.099 man, the world will come at you. The world will 00:37:38.099 --> 00:37:41.840 never champion you. There will always be critics. 00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:47.420 You just got to find a place deep inside and 00:37:47.420 --> 00:37:50.659 with your faith that says, hey, this is not me. 00:37:51.199 --> 00:37:54.260 I'm the only one between me and God that knows 00:37:54.260 --> 00:37:57.639 my story and knows my truth. I've got to move 00:37:57.639 --> 00:38:00.139 forward. I don't know if you're aware of the 00:38:00.139 --> 00:38:02.179 reason why we even had a show in the first place, 00:38:02.219 --> 00:38:04.599 because my wife and I, who's sick and I'm flying 00:38:04.599 --> 00:38:08.059 solo today. Yeah. We have a school, Center Academy, 00:38:08.380 --> 00:38:11.099 and we had some very outspoken opinions about 00:38:11.099 --> 00:38:13.820 social distancing and masking and vaccinations 00:38:13.820 --> 00:38:16.699 and all that. And it became a whole global media 00:38:16.699 --> 00:38:21.900 thing. And and among other things, our phones 00:38:21.900 --> 00:38:24.760 were blowing up at the school so much. People 00:38:24.760 --> 00:38:27.179 calling with saying nasty, nasty stuff that. 00:38:27.670 --> 00:38:29.969 the poor receptionist who was answering the phone 00:38:29.969 --> 00:38:32.610 we had to rotate them out because they just couldn't 00:38:32.610 --> 00:38:35.789 handle me answering the phone so it's just wow 00:38:35.789 --> 00:38:38.769 pretty pretty horrible people can be people look 00:38:38.769 --> 00:38:41.090 at the worst versions of themselves when they're 00:38:41.090 --> 00:38:44.730 anonymous online really oh absolutely yeah they 00:38:44.730 --> 00:38:48.269 have they're emboldened with just so much you 00:38:48.269 --> 00:38:51.010 know, just those keyboard warriors. They'll absolutely 00:38:51.010 --> 00:38:53.449 go to war on a keyboard. You know, things that 00:38:53.449 --> 00:38:54.829 they wouldn't, and most of those people would 00:38:54.829 --> 00:38:57.690 never say to your face, would never have, you 00:38:57.690 --> 00:39:00.369 know, the guts to say that. But they'll say it 00:39:00.369 --> 00:39:02.130 behind the keyboard when they've got anonymity. 00:39:02.349 --> 00:39:05.929 There's a classic New York magazine cartoon that 00:39:05.929 --> 00:39:08.289 has a picture of a dog in front of a computer, 00:39:08.409 --> 00:39:10.349 and it says on the internet, nobody knows you're 00:39:10.349 --> 00:39:15.110 a dog. Yeah, that's very true. And, you know, 00:39:15.150 --> 00:39:18.880 and I have family members who, actually think 00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:23.380 it's fun sport to troll because they, because 00:39:23.380 --> 00:39:25.280 they don't, they don't, they can't be identified. 00:39:26.239 --> 00:39:28.239 It's not, it's not right. It doesn't feel right. 00:39:28.300 --> 00:39:32.300 Don't do that. You know? So where were all your 00:39:32.300 --> 00:39:34.780 friends and family in all this? Did you feel 00:39:34.780 --> 00:39:36.639 alone? I mean, that's been kind of a recurring 00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:39.019 theme of all our guests. You feel sort of alone 00:39:39.019 --> 00:39:43.260 in all of this. Yeah, no, I definitely did. Especially 00:39:43.260 --> 00:39:48.190 after that first punch, I think. um it was just 00:39:48.190 --> 00:39:51.309 you know and i was in nashville during that time 00:39:51.309 --> 00:39:55.389 so i had also you know been dipping my toe into 00:39:55.389 --> 00:39:59.210 creating music and i've listened to some of your 00:39:59.210 --> 00:40:02.829 your music very talented really nice yeah yeah 00:40:02.829 --> 00:40:05.989 radio yeah nice good stuff thank you that was 00:40:05.989 --> 00:40:10.260 a fun time Truly something that, you know, yeah, 00:40:11.500 --> 00:40:13.519 absolutely. So from a kid, you know, this is 00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:16.539 something that was a passion of mine. And I didn't 00:40:16.539 --> 00:40:19.639 never know if I would have the route in life 00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:22.860 to be able to even experience it. And I was given 00:40:22.860 --> 00:40:25.760 that opportunity in Nashville for, you know, 00:40:25.780 --> 00:40:28.940 a number of years. And, you know, because like 00:40:28.940 --> 00:40:32.099 the show. No, it was like I had the opportunity 00:40:32.099 --> 00:40:35.590 before the show. with a publishing company and 00:40:35.590 --> 00:40:37.969 a guy that was also originally from Texas and 00:40:37.969 --> 00:40:40.150 he was a successful songwriter, had number one 00:40:40.150 --> 00:40:43.469 songs on the radio and he kind of brought me 00:40:43.469 --> 00:40:45.789 in under his wing and said, hey, I like what 00:40:45.789 --> 00:40:48.670 you're doing and I think you're talented, let's 00:40:48.670 --> 00:40:50.949 write some songs and do those things. So that 00:40:50.949 --> 00:40:53.610 industry in and of itself, it's also similar 00:40:53.610 --> 00:40:57.730 to the film industry in terms of the same PR, 00:40:57.989 --> 00:41:00.670 the marketing, the same platforms, all those 00:41:00.670 --> 00:41:04.199 things. But again, It was also very difficult 00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:08.139 and it's very volatile in terms of being successful. 00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:13.519 The stars have to align in terms of talent, timing, 00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:16.380 the team, all those things that are around you, 00:41:16.519 --> 00:41:21.260 how you're marketed. At the end of the day, the 00:41:21.260 --> 00:41:25.300 songs have to be the best songs at the top of 00:41:25.300 --> 00:41:31.880 the heap of Nashville. And so, you know, that 00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:33.880 was something that I was going through. And so 00:41:33.880 --> 00:41:36.780 I was, you know, doing that, considering doing 00:41:36.780 --> 00:41:39.400 that, you know, as a career and those type of 00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:42.389 things. Then the TV thing happened, and so I 00:41:42.389 --> 00:41:45.050 was kind of doubled down into the entertainment 00:41:45.050 --> 00:41:47.769 world in two different ways, the reality TV and 00:41:47.769 --> 00:41:50.210 the music deal. They were somewhat, which I didn't 00:41:50.210 --> 00:41:52.349 know at the time, they would be very conflicting 00:41:52.349 --> 00:41:55.710 because of the nature of the dating show. It 00:41:55.710 --> 00:41:58.809 kind of devalidated me with a lot of country 00:41:58.809 --> 00:42:01.849 music fans, which I found out later. I played 00:42:01.849 --> 00:42:06.710 over 100 shows a year for a few years and toured 00:42:06.710 --> 00:42:10.389 around the country at different venues. And I 00:42:10.389 --> 00:42:12.670 found out that, like, oh, well, they would try 00:42:12.670 --> 00:42:14.909 to take the shortcut of marketing me as the venue 00:42:14.909 --> 00:42:18.050 to, like, hey, there's a TV guy, right? And then 00:42:18.050 --> 00:42:22.690 your normal country music fan that's, you know, 00:42:22.730 --> 00:42:27.869 just a guy that, you know, is a mechanic in Kansas 00:42:27.869 --> 00:42:32.079 or, you know, whatever. those guys were alienated 00:42:32.079 --> 00:42:34.500 from like, oh, there's a guy at a bachelorette. 00:42:34.519 --> 00:42:37.000 I'm not listening to his stuff. What kind of 00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:39.900 pansy man, reality man is this, you know? And 00:42:39.900 --> 00:42:44.500 so it's funny just, you know, kind of the schema 00:42:44.500 --> 00:42:46.420 of what people expected in the country music 00:42:46.420 --> 00:42:48.880 world. So I found that out along the way. I was 00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:51.539 like, oh, wow, you know, this is, I got all these 00:42:51.539 --> 00:42:53.539 bachelorette fans that follow me around the country 00:42:53.539 --> 00:42:55.639 and go buy tickets to these music shows, but 00:42:55.639 --> 00:42:58.840 I'm not really getting the typical country music 00:42:58.840 --> 00:43:04.260 fan. And so those two things conflicted later 00:43:04.260 --> 00:43:07.239 on. But then when I take this big hit of that 00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:10.260 first cancellation after that spinoff TV show, 00:43:10.460 --> 00:43:14.840 I'm working with music managers, music booking 00:43:14.840 --> 00:43:18.980 agencies, and all these things. And they're calling 00:43:18.980 --> 00:43:21.800 me because now they're concerned, right? I have 00:43:21.800 --> 00:43:24.130 a publicist on the music side of things. Now 00:43:24.130 --> 00:43:27.289 she's got to put together some type of, you know, 00:43:27.289 --> 00:43:31.030 piece to revive, you know, the publicity of this. 00:43:31.090 --> 00:43:32.409 And they feel the pressure saying, well, you're 00:43:32.409 --> 00:43:34.269 losing 100 ,000 followers. That's important. 00:43:34.329 --> 00:43:36.670 The music business, you know, overnight, we've 00:43:36.670 --> 00:43:40.070 got to fix this. And so I think that moment is 00:43:40.070 --> 00:43:41.869 when I really felt I was like, oh, man, this 00:43:41.869 --> 00:43:45.110 this ship can sink really quickly and can turn 00:43:45.110 --> 00:43:47.949 around very quickly. especially when I'm dependent 00:43:47.949 --> 00:43:51.489 upon the entertainment industry as a whole to 00:43:51.489 --> 00:43:55.469 try to navigate that and that be a career. So 00:43:55.469 --> 00:43:59.809 that was one big piece of it. But through it 00:43:59.809 --> 00:44:02.590 all, David, I think when I came to the other 00:44:02.590 --> 00:44:06.000 side of it is when, you know, COVID. It really 00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:08.880 silenced all live shows for music during that 00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:11.519 time. My last show I played in public was in 00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:14.199 Malibu, California in February of 2020. And then 00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:17.739 COVID happened a month later. And then the whole 00:44:17.739 --> 00:44:20.239 music industry shut down for live music and concerts, 00:44:20.300 --> 00:44:23.559 of course, all of 2020, most of 2021. And so 00:44:23.559 --> 00:44:26.059 during that time, I had been working on some 00:44:26.059 --> 00:44:29.059 other stuff. I knew that I needed to pivot. And 00:44:29.059 --> 00:44:33.010 so I got into commercial real estate. and I opened 00:44:33.010 --> 00:44:35.230 up a moving company franchise, just a couple 00:44:35.230 --> 00:44:38.010 other business ventures. that would then parlay 00:44:38.010 --> 00:44:40.989 me out of dependency upon the entertainment world. 00:44:41.150 --> 00:44:43.550 Because I had seen what it could do, how volatile 00:44:43.550 --> 00:44:47.730 it was, and just how kind of soul -sucking it 00:44:47.730 --> 00:44:52.670 could be to always be trying to post and appease 00:44:52.670 --> 00:44:57.030 those audiences. And so once I separated my career 00:44:57.030 --> 00:44:59.690 back again into commercial real estate away from 00:44:59.690 --> 00:45:02.250 it didn't matter how many followers I had, it 00:45:02.250 --> 00:45:04.710 didn't matter if I was getting booked for a music 00:45:04.710 --> 00:45:07.090 show or anything like that. I'm living my life. 00:45:07.090 --> 00:45:09.849 I'm moving on back into the entrepreneur world. 00:45:11.170 --> 00:45:14.869 Then I felt alive again. I had a new network 00:45:14.869 --> 00:45:19.250 of colleagues and business partners and those 00:45:19.250 --> 00:45:21.550 type of things, and I had a new direction in 00:45:21.550 --> 00:45:25.050 life and in my career to get away from that dependency 00:45:25.050 --> 00:45:28.849 of social media. So earlier we were talking about 00:45:28.849 --> 00:45:30.869 how you kind of have to sell your soul in a way 00:45:30.869 --> 00:45:33.869 to be on reality TV, but the same holds true 00:45:33.869 --> 00:45:39.639 for music. Sure. You know, non -reality TV and 00:45:39.639 --> 00:45:43.320 movies and so on. Do you see anybody who's been 00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:46.099 able to navigate it in a way where they don't 00:45:46.099 --> 00:45:48.699 lose their soul? Is that even possible these 00:45:48.699 --> 00:45:54.679 days? You know, I think it is. For one big piece 00:45:54.679 --> 00:45:59.820 of it was that I got that following and got that 00:45:59.820 --> 00:46:02.719 15 minutes of fame from the Bachelor TV franchise. 00:46:02.980 --> 00:46:06.280 And so all followings are not the same. If somebody 00:46:06.280 --> 00:46:10.599 has organically built, let's say, Turning Point, 00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:13.760 Charlie Kirk. He's been on the show, by the way. 00:46:14.139 --> 00:46:17.179 Oh, amazing. Love Charlie. Known him for several 00:46:17.179 --> 00:46:19.920 years. Always support what he's doing. I think 00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:24.139 it's a generational catalyst that is going to 00:46:24.139 --> 00:46:27.440 prove dividends well into the next couple of 00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:29.719 decades of what he's doing. He's playing the 00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:32.480 long game, and I think that's an amazing thing 00:46:32.480 --> 00:46:37.510 for the conservative world. He's built that following 00:46:37.510 --> 00:46:40.289 that's all conservatives from day one. That's 00:46:40.289 --> 00:46:43.510 been the brand. That's been his brand. Everything's 00:46:43.510 --> 00:46:47.130 aligned. There's not a conflict there with what 00:46:47.130 --> 00:46:52.809 his followers see and what they post. It's in 00:46:52.809 --> 00:46:56.880 alignment. He gets into the controversial world 00:46:56.880 --> 00:47:00.579 when he goes outside of his subscribers, his 00:47:00.579 --> 00:47:02.619 followers, all those things, and he goes outside 00:47:02.619 --> 00:47:07.500 of that, and they get in conflict on the other 00:47:07.500 --> 00:47:09.159 side of the aisle from a political standpoint. 00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:11.480 Yes, there's controversy there, but he still 00:47:11.480 --> 00:47:14.000 has his core followers, and there's not conflict 00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:16.460 of interest there of what he's posting with those 00:47:16.460 --> 00:47:18.599 followers. Well, his cancellation journey was 00:47:18.599 --> 00:47:21.000 a little different because he got massively throttled 00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:24.730 down by Twitter to nothingness. Agreed. Yeah, 00:47:24.829 --> 00:47:28.449 that's a great point. The followers, but they 00:47:28.449 --> 00:47:30.570 couldn't hear his voice because he didn't have 00:47:30.570 --> 00:47:33.610 a voice. The algorithms, yeah. That's a whole 00:47:33.610 --> 00:47:39.070 other level of cancellation where it's in this 00:47:39.070 --> 00:47:44.030 incognito mode of algorithms and the old ownership 00:47:44.030 --> 00:47:47.210 of Twitter and how that was. I mean, even still, 00:47:47.489 --> 00:47:53.280 there is kind of... shadow banning that's on 00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:56.260 Instagram. And I started experiencing that. How? 00:47:56.900 --> 00:47:59.579 Well, when I would post, like, because I was 00:47:59.579 --> 00:48:03.239 a bachelorette guy, I had, you know, all kinds 00:48:03.239 --> 00:48:05.920 of different political backgrounds. And that 00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:07.940 was one of my other things, not just was I getting 00:48:07.940 --> 00:48:11.239 negative comments from directly from followers 00:48:11.239 --> 00:48:14.159 and losing followers and all those type of things. 00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:18.429 But then the views would be. you know where I 00:48:18.429 --> 00:48:20.050 learned what shadow banning was like you know 00:48:20.050 --> 00:48:22.650 probably five six years ago but the views I would 00:48:22.650 --> 00:48:25.550 have massive amounts of views when I was posting 00:48:25.550 --> 00:48:28.550 bachelorette stuff or even posting personal stuff 00:48:28.550 --> 00:48:31.650 that wasn't political or wasn't you know faith 00:48:31.650 --> 00:48:33.730 -based or whatever and as soon as I post some 00:48:33.730 --> 00:48:38.190 of those things your views just get completely 00:48:38.190 --> 00:48:42.230 throttled down and I saw that firsthand and so 00:48:42.809 --> 00:48:45.369 I would experience the ups and downs, and I'm 00:48:45.369 --> 00:48:47.909 like, oh, this is not a coincidence. It's not 00:48:47.909 --> 00:48:50.809 just happens to be, oh, the people that are liking 00:48:50.809 --> 00:48:55.449 and viewing this are all here. They're not even 00:48:55.449 --> 00:48:58.010 getting access to it. It's algorithmically. It's 00:48:58.010 --> 00:49:01.710 not even a manual intervention. This is the robots 00:49:01.710 --> 00:49:04.409 dictating who gets to see what. It's a foundational 00:49:04.409 --> 00:49:08.489 algorithm. That they bake into those platforms. 00:49:09.010 --> 00:49:12.010 And so, yeah, Facebook and Instagram were the 00:49:12.010 --> 00:49:14.389 biggest for me. I didn't, you know, have as much 00:49:14.389 --> 00:49:18.010 of a presence. I wasn't active on Twitter. So 00:49:18.010 --> 00:49:20.269 I didn't, you know, have it as much there or 00:49:20.269 --> 00:49:21.849 notice it as much there. But, yeah, definitely 00:49:21.849 --> 00:49:25.650 on Instagram. It throttled it back so hard. And 00:49:25.650 --> 00:49:28.530 still does to this day. It's wrong. I mean, that's 00:49:28.530 --> 00:49:31.469 why we do the show. Oh, it really is. It really 00:49:31.469 --> 00:49:34.389 is. Like, you know. especially for the people 00:49:34.389 --> 00:49:37.309 who go out and organically build a very large 00:49:37.309 --> 00:49:40.829 audience. And now their audience can't see, you 00:49:40.829 --> 00:49:43.170 know, what they're posting. So, I mean, it's 00:49:43.170 --> 00:49:45.010 like, what is the point? The audience follows 00:49:45.010 --> 00:49:47.389 you in order to view. So, like, you know, you 00:49:47.389 --> 00:49:48.989 have to deal with these workarounds where it's 00:49:48.989 --> 00:49:51.949 like, oh, add them as a subscriber or turn this 00:49:51.949 --> 00:49:54.150 setting off. You know, there's a lot of, you 00:49:54.150 --> 00:49:55.489 know, people that will post, like, how to go 00:49:55.489 --> 00:49:57.710 deep into your settings and change this so you 00:49:57.710 --> 00:50:01.269 can. get a guaranteed view of you know this certain 00:50:01.269 --> 00:50:03.849 profile otherwise you're gonna just gonna get 00:50:03.849 --> 00:50:08.650 blocked on on an algorithm piece so um where 00:50:08.650 --> 00:50:11.690 where so your conservative values and all that 00:50:11.690 --> 00:50:15.590 they did that become an issue um like historically 00:50:15.590 --> 00:50:17.730 the things that you posted a long time ago or 00:50:17.730 --> 00:50:20.190 is that more like a real -time kind of impact 00:50:20.190 --> 00:50:23.869 as you went along no you know i think the first 00:50:23.869 --> 00:50:28.360 time and that went into the tabloid level uh, 00:50:28.739 --> 00:50:34.460 of controversy was during the, uh, Kavanaugh 00:50:34.460 --> 00:50:39.599 hearings. I, I, I posted, um, you know, something 00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:42.519 with a, you know, you would consider it a conservative, 00:50:42.659 --> 00:50:45.800 really even wasn't slanted. It wasn't, you know, 00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:50.099 uh, something that was one way or the other in 00:50:50.099 --> 00:50:51.980 terms of, I just basically was playing devil's 00:50:51.980 --> 00:50:54.079 advocate and say, you know, this, this, this 00:50:54.079 --> 00:50:58.070 seems like a, uh, you know, a hoax. This seems 00:50:58.070 --> 00:51:03.190 like a goose chase. Just for our audience, Brett 00:51:03.190 --> 00:51:05.670 Kavanaugh, the Supreme Court Justice nominee, 00:51:06.010 --> 00:51:07.969 is that correct? Yeah, they were going through 00:51:07.969 --> 00:51:09.949 his, it was his confirmation hearings that was 00:51:09.949 --> 00:51:14.650 all over the mainstream media. I believe it was 00:51:14.650 --> 00:51:19.070 a time where he was just getting, obviously the 00:51:19.070 --> 00:51:24.079 Democrats didn't want him to get confirmed. Then 00:51:24.079 --> 00:51:25.920 they started digging back into his skeletons 00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:29.340 in his closet. If you don't know, he was like, 00:51:29.400 --> 00:51:31.360 oh, he drank a beer. Then there was this allegation 00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:32.900 of where he was in high school at this party 00:51:32.900 --> 00:51:35.280 in the Hamptons, et cetera, et cetera, at his 00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:39.659 family home. That was this big hearing. Obviously, 00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:41.940 you see that at the end of the day, he was confirmed 00:51:41.940 --> 00:51:47.239 years later. All I said was like, wow, this seems 00:51:47.239 --> 00:51:50.559 out of proportion. I think there needs to be 00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:53.829 more facts here. something to that nature and 00:51:53.829 --> 00:51:56.369 posted that on Twitter. And I mean, it was not 00:51:56.369 --> 00:51:59.389 even that egregious of an opinion that I said 00:51:59.389 --> 00:52:01.449 or that strong of an opinion, but it was something 00:52:01.449 --> 00:52:05.429 with an air of conservatism to it and support 00:52:05.429 --> 00:52:10.949 of the conservative movement. And here it goes. 00:52:11.070 --> 00:52:14.039 I mean, at the time I was still... in that limelight 00:52:14.039 --> 00:52:17.199 enough that it was enough clickbait for you know 00:52:17.199 --> 00:52:19.840 us weekly people magazine you know all those 00:52:19.840 --> 00:52:23.360 e -news people to pick it up and run it oh yeah 00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:26.199 they were covering it and and so there was a 00:52:26.199 --> 00:52:30.139 big blogger um that follows reality tv and he 00:52:30.139 --> 00:52:32.039 kind of made a name for himself his name is reality 00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:35.280 steve was his handle and so he followed all the 00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:37.380 reality shows started bachelor and it kind of 00:52:37.380 --> 00:52:39.599 became then he started his own podcast and so 00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:43.780 he became a voice for those shows And so if you 00:52:43.780 --> 00:52:46.659 did something that he thought was controversial 00:52:46.659 --> 00:52:49.940 even after a show, which was in my case, he'd 00:52:49.940 --> 00:52:52.000 grab it, he'd tweet about it, and then that became 00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:55.340 fodder for those other news outlets to then pick 00:52:55.340 --> 00:52:57.800 up what he said about it. And, you know, it was 00:52:57.800 --> 00:53:01.019 just – that was another moment where I was like, 00:53:01.059 --> 00:53:04.079 wow, this canceling thing is no joke whatsoever. 00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:06.880 I want to get Reality Steve on this show and 00:53:06.880 --> 00:53:10.880 duke it out with this guy. Right? Yeah. Yeah. 00:53:11.130 --> 00:53:13.730 He doesn't like doing that. He likes people to 00:53:13.730 --> 00:53:15.809 come on his show. He has control of the edit. 00:53:16.190 --> 00:53:20.130 He doesn't want to go into a place where it might 00:53:20.130 --> 00:53:22.489 be fair and balanced. I think this cancellation 00:53:22.489 --> 00:53:25.010 is even worse now because now it's not even what 00:53:25.010 --> 00:53:27.090 you say. If you like, I think people are tracking 00:53:27.090 --> 00:53:31.769 likes now. Oh, absolutely. Right? It's a scary 00:53:31.769 --> 00:53:35.050 direction. People think the cancel culture is 00:53:35.050 --> 00:53:37.510 over, but I think we've only just begun. I think 00:53:37.510 --> 00:53:41.550 it's going to get even worse. Yeah, the stakes 00:53:41.550 --> 00:53:45.929 are getting higher, which is interesting. You 00:53:45.929 --> 00:53:49.530 know, I think that, you know, it's been interesting 00:53:49.530 --> 00:53:51.989 to see, you know, the Twitter ownership change 00:53:51.989 --> 00:53:56.170 was a big moment. And supposedly those algorithms 00:53:56.170 --> 00:53:59.030 were open now with changing the ex -ownership 00:53:59.030 --> 00:54:03.150 taking over. Meta, I don't believe, has changed. 00:54:03.269 --> 00:54:05.369 But, you know, they're going through, there's 00:54:05.369 --> 00:54:07.349 a lot of hearings now where they're talking about, 00:54:07.489 --> 00:54:13.269 you know, What was the role of these major social 00:54:13.269 --> 00:54:19.650 media platforms in meddling in political realms? 00:54:19.929 --> 00:54:23.909 Are they meddling in an election? And so I know 00:54:23.909 --> 00:54:26.289 there's a lot of investigations that have gone 00:54:26.289 --> 00:54:28.769 into that over the years. And I think that it's 00:54:28.769 --> 00:54:30.710 coming out. I feel like there's been a couple 00:54:30.710 --> 00:54:33.969 of judgments that there was definitely, I mean, 00:54:33.969 --> 00:54:36.679 we've seen it on mainstream. media um we saw 00:54:36.679 --> 00:54:39.960 in this last election cycle where uh it was the 00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:43.039 60 minutes piece was was was huge where there 00:54:43.039 --> 00:54:45.079 was the kamala harris interview on 60 minutes 00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:47.780 and they did the edit and then they did the unedited 00:54:47.780 --> 00:54:50.619 version and it was completely two different answers 00:54:50.619 --> 00:54:53.860 in the middle i mean weeks before an actual presidential 00:54:53.860 --> 00:54:56.719 election and you're meddling and want the answer 00:54:56.719 --> 00:55:03.340 to a huge international relations topic comes 00:55:03.340 --> 00:55:07.360 up and you're going to meddle and edit that like 00:55:07.360 --> 00:55:10.280 it's reality TV, right? I mean, 60 Minutes was 00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:16.159 taking it upon themselves to edit a presidential 00:55:16.159 --> 00:55:18.940 candidate as if they were on a reality TV show. 00:55:19.239 --> 00:55:22.760 I mean, just unbelievable. I would imagine on 00:55:22.760 --> 00:55:24.960 some level you must see this as sort of a blessing. 00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:27.940 Your journey, your experience is something that 00:55:27.940 --> 00:55:30.659 not a lot of people will ever get to experience. 00:55:31.900 --> 00:55:35.880 Would you say? I'm very thankful for the experience. 00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:39.960 I think that it's leading me to a place of more 00:55:39.960 --> 00:55:44.360 impact. It's galvanizing my self -awareness. 00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:48.039 It's galvanizing my self -worth so that, you 00:55:48.039 --> 00:55:52.130 know, here in the future, as I, you know. look 00:55:52.130 --> 00:55:56.369 to give back, to grow young leaders and those 00:55:56.369 --> 00:55:58.889 type of things. I can speak to it from a place 00:55:58.889 --> 00:56:03.969 of personal experience and hopefully move the 00:56:03.969 --> 00:56:07.969 needle for future generations somewhat and just 00:56:07.969 --> 00:56:12.610 prepare them for what's coming. There's a lot 00:56:12.610 --> 00:56:16.489 to come in the future, a lot of threats that 00:56:16.489 --> 00:56:19.849 will continue down this... down this path and 00:56:19.849 --> 00:56:21.929 not just in the cancellation world as we've seen 00:56:21.929 --> 00:56:25.829 it in mainstream media and social media, but 00:56:25.829 --> 00:56:29.929 you can have the whole podcast series on where 00:56:29.929 --> 00:56:33.590 we're going in terms of AI and how that's going 00:56:33.590 --> 00:56:35.610 to take us to a whole new level of cancellation 00:56:35.610 --> 00:56:39.530 where it'll be canceled before it even exists, 00:56:39.829 --> 00:56:41.809 right? It's going to be curated and canceled 00:56:41.809 --> 00:56:46.630 and put back out in a cleaner, sanitized version. 00:56:47.260 --> 00:56:50.840 of messaging by whoever controls it by whoever 00:56:50.840 --> 00:56:54.480 whoever's got the most money whoever is in control 00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:57.119 of your ai algorithms and so that's the next 00:56:57.119 --> 00:57:00.079 level of what we've seen you know these large 00:57:00.079 --> 00:57:03.780 meta x twitter all these guys do leading up to 00:57:03.780 --> 00:57:06.639 this point in the last decade the next decade 00:57:06.639 --> 00:57:10.199 is going to be what what they'll do um in terms 00:57:10.199 --> 00:57:15.619 of ai control of messaging and so um Look, I'm 00:57:15.619 --> 00:57:18.500 thankful for the experience that I've had. Now 00:57:18.500 --> 00:57:21.679 I'm a chairman of two different nonprofits. One's 00:57:21.679 --> 00:57:25.380 for veterans that have been injured in combat. 00:57:25.460 --> 00:57:28.409 We help them. heal through music and art programs. 00:57:28.730 --> 00:57:30.769 That program's been going 11 years. It's called 00:57:30.769 --> 00:57:32.869 creativevets .org. We're out of Nashville, Tennessee. 00:57:33.190 --> 00:57:35.190 And then another one, we're doing anti -human 00:57:35.190 --> 00:57:39.150 trafficking task forces across the country where 00:57:39.150 --> 00:57:41.710 we work with law enforcement agencies to help 00:57:41.710 --> 00:57:45.329 them get the funding that they need to add detectives, 00:57:45.369 --> 00:57:48.530 to add technology packages, and all these things 00:57:48.530 --> 00:57:51.449 that they have to combat human trafficking and 00:57:51.449 --> 00:57:54.949 sexual exploitation on the dark web. And so, 00:57:55.050 --> 00:57:58.510 you know, I wouldn't be as passionate probably 00:57:58.510 --> 00:58:00.829 about those two things and having real impact 00:58:00.829 --> 00:58:04.369 if I didn't go through, you know, what I went 00:58:04.369 --> 00:58:06.650 through and experienced the highs and lows of 00:58:06.650 --> 00:58:09.389 reality TV and being canceled and what it's like. 00:58:09.489 --> 00:58:11.809 And I can come at it from a whole different angle 00:58:11.809 --> 00:58:14.630 and understand real impact, understand the threats 00:58:14.630 --> 00:58:17.710 that are out there and the landscape that we're 00:58:17.710 --> 00:58:21.329 moving into in terms of, you know, social platforms 00:58:21.329 --> 00:58:25.469 and cancellation across all media platforms. 00:58:26.000 --> 00:58:27.920 Why don't you give a plug? Let's just say the 00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:30.199 names of your nonprofits that you've created. 00:58:30.300 --> 00:58:32.960 Yeah, so creativevets .org is my veteran nonprofit 00:58:32.960 --> 00:58:35.639 in Nashville, Tennessee. We help veterans heal 00:58:35.639 --> 00:58:38.519 through music and art programs. And then we have 00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:42.699 operationlightshine .org. And we're also based 00:58:42.699 --> 00:58:44.940 out of Nashville, Tennessee, but we've got six 00:58:44.940 --> 00:58:48.199 task forces across the eastern seaboard, two 00:58:48.199 --> 00:58:50.860 in Florida. We have one in Virginia, one in Maryland. 00:58:51.990 --> 00:58:57.190 one in Nashville, Tennessee as well. And we, 00:58:57.289 --> 00:59:01.030 like I said, fund law enforcement agencies so 00:59:01.030 --> 00:59:03.030 that they can better fight and allocate resources 00:59:03.030 --> 00:59:07.110 and training for them to fight the ever -growing, 00:59:07.230 --> 00:59:10.969 exponentially growing, dare I say, crime that 00:59:10.969 --> 00:59:16.170 is child sexual exploitation, CSAM material that 00:59:16.170 --> 00:59:18.130 is growing across the internet, growing across 00:59:18.130 --> 00:59:23.039 the dark web. Not to mention in addition to is 00:59:23.039 --> 00:59:25.099 the actual human trafficking portion of that, 00:59:25.139 --> 00:59:27.840 which is the physical trafficking with intent 00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:32.000 to create child sexual abuse material. It's beautiful 00:59:32.000 --> 00:59:35.000 work. You know, your journey is just so unique. 00:59:35.219 --> 00:59:38.139 Practically nobody is going to have these experiences 00:59:38.139 --> 00:59:41.719 that you've had. Do you think that. Were there 00:59:41.719 --> 00:59:43.139 any mistakes made along the way? What would you 00:59:43.139 --> 00:59:44.639 have done differently? Would you have not done 00:59:44.639 --> 00:59:47.519 your music and your reality at the same time? 00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:50.719 If you could have a redo, what would you have 00:59:50.719 --> 00:59:53.420 done differently? Oh, I would have done a lot 00:59:53.420 --> 00:59:56.159 of things differently, but nothing differently 00:59:56.159 --> 00:59:57.699 at the same time. I think everything happens 00:59:57.699 --> 01:00:00.360 for a reason, and the trials and the highs and 01:00:00.360 --> 01:00:02.019 lows that I went through, I learned something. 01:00:02.199 --> 01:00:05.099 But if I was to look for a better experience 01:00:05.099 --> 01:00:08.039 from the beginning, I would have put my personal 01:00:08.039 --> 01:00:10.789 life into reality TV. Nothing wrong with reality 01:00:10.789 --> 01:00:14.130 TV as a whole. I think the better formats are 01:00:14.130 --> 01:00:17.210 probably like The Amazing Race or Survivor or 01:00:17.210 --> 01:00:19.849 something that's more competitive and not tied 01:00:19.849 --> 01:00:22.409 to your personal life. That gets into a really 01:00:22.409 --> 01:00:26.190 muddy place for you after you do the TV show 01:00:26.190 --> 01:00:28.150 as the rest of the world follows you based off 01:00:28.150 --> 01:00:30.809 of your personal life. Who you date, who you 01:00:30.809 --> 01:00:33.590 married, now it's all clouded because of that 01:00:33.590 --> 01:00:36.690 experience. I probably would have picked a different 01:00:36.690 --> 01:00:39.869 reality TV. experience if i if i had to do it 01:00:39.869 --> 01:00:44.670 all over again um yeah music great great experience 01:00:44.670 --> 01:00:49.219 for me um again the relational personal life 01:00:49.219 --> 01:00:51.679 reality tv did not mix well with the music that 01:00:51.679 --> 01:00:54.679 i was doing um some people some people that has 01:00:54.679 --> 01:00:58.460 and and does work well um for um chase rice was 01:00:58.460 --> 01:01:00.800 a guy that was on survivor years ago and then 01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:04.340 he segued into big country music career um and 01:01:04.340 --> 01:01:06.440 then there's obviously reality tv that's tied 01:01:06.440 --> 01:01:09.019 to music from you know the tv shows that are 01:01:09.019 --> 01:01:12.119 music based from american idol and the voice 01:01:12.119 --> 01:01:15.139 and those different ones nashville stars where 01:01:15.139 --> 01:01:19.460 miranda lambert as Sean came from. There's definitely 01:01:19.460 --> 01:01:22.139 recipes for success out there. Mine was unique 01:01:22.139 --> 01:01:26.639 in and of itself. I don't regret any of it. I 01:01:26.639 --> 01:01:28.780 know it's all happening for a reason. I know 01:01:28.780 --> 01:01:31.000 that there's impact to be made in the future. 01:01:32.079 --> 01:01:35.260 I'm thankful to be on the other side of it, wiser. 01:01:35.880 --> 01:01:39.420 uh and and more prepared for for what's to come 01:01:39.420 --> 01:01:41.519 so you know my wife and i are trying to start 01:01:41.519 --> 01:01:45.280 our family now um and you know i i've got something 01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:49.039 to to give to my kids a legacy to grow um because 01:01:49.039 --> 01:01:51.760 you know the world's uh just gonna get more dangerous 01:01:51.760 --> 01:01:54.679 and it's gonna get more confusing uh in the next 01:01:54.679 --> 01:01:58.300 generation i know that for a fact and so i want 01:01:58.300 --> 01:02:01.960 to be able to prepare that generation for what's 01:02:01.960 --> 01:02:04.000 to come as much as I can. You have to talk to 01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:06.340 the lady who does your hair so that she submits 01:02:06.340 --> 01:02:08.659 your application for these other shows. Yeah. 01:02:09.860 --> 01:02:12.780 We'll have to circle back with Kim and see if 01:02:12.780 --> 01:02:15.980 she'll submit me to something more fun. So clearly 01:02:15.980 --> 01:02:17.699 you've had a lot of time to think about your 01:02:17.699 --> 01:02:21.239 journey. And it's a really great story. This 01:02:21.239 --> 01:02:23.280 is really a lot of fun. Thanks for coming on 01:02:23.280 --> 01:02:26.219 the show. And I hope and pray that the rest of 01:02:26.219 --> 01:02:29.099 your life is only good at it, Luke. Thank you. 01:02:29.119 --> 01:02:31.199 David, I appreciate the time. Thanks so much 01:02:31.199 --> 01:02:32.559 for having me on. I enjoyed the conversation. 01:02:32.860 --> 01:02:34.619 Appreciate you. Thank you so much.