WEBVTT

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I spoke to someone who's a real specialist in

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information warfare and he said, oh yeah, of

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course he's gone. Let me tell you what happens.

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They show up at your door in the middle of the

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night. They've got masks on probably. There's

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a bunch of them. One of them comes to the door.

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He's very friendly and smiling. And he says,

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basically, it's the equivalent of you're lying

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in the dirt. They've got their foot on your throat

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and they offer you a hand up. The hand up is

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you take it. or we're going to hurt your child,

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or you take your hand and you're going to be

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okay. I am so excited to have Laura Logan on

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the show. I'm absolutely titillated. I want to

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start with a confession. I'm going to be confessing

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something I've never shared with anybody before.

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I had a little bit of a crush on you a long time

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ago. I was a regular 60 Minutes watcher. We didn't

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have TiVo or anything like that, so I'd have

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to tune in on Sunday. I was hoping that you would

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have some sort of journalism on that show. Look

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how she's very beautiful. You're the cutest thing

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and so talented, and I just really loved it when

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you were on air. Thank you. Well, I had a crush

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on her too, but not in a gay way. Oh, did you?

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It was a role model type of crush. Oh, I can

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see that for sure. I was always mesmerized by

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you, always. How did you, just take me back,

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I'm just curious, because you were like a superstar

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at a very young age. I mean, how did you even

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get on, what was your career trajectory to get

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onto 60 Minutes? This is the highest level of

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journalism that you could probably attain, I

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would think. How did that happen? Yes. Well,

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it really started in South Africa when I was

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in high school, and I I heard a speech that was

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given by a journalist. She came to our school

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and she spoke to us honestly about extra -parliamentary

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political activity for women. And at the end,

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I went up to her, you know, to talk to her because

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I said, you know, I want to be a journalist.

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And she said, well, why don't you come work at

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the paper? You can, you know, volunteer. And

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I did. And it was a classic newsroom, news editor

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with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth, pockmarked,

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acne face, and every second word was, you know,

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F this and F that. So, but I had kind of a baptism

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of fire and I was given a chance. I mean, it

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wasn't easy. There were a lot of people who didn't

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like the fact that there was, you know, a young

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girl walking through the newsroom and everyone

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in the sports department apparently would stop

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doing their work because I got the complaints

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and I had to deal with that. But I worked. all

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through university all through college i kept

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working i just went to the college and i said

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you know i went to the newspaper the biggest

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daily newspaper and i said you don't have anyone

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my age working for you you need young readers

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let me work for you and here's you know here's

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all the stories i wrote and got published when

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i was in high school And that was pretty much

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how I did it the whole way through. You know,

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when I knew I wanted to go into television and

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I wanted to be in the foreign media because South

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Africa was a big story at the time internationally.

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I just, I got the Foreign Association, you know,

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Correspondence Association handbook and I worked

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my way through it. And I just, I showed up on

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people's doors and said, hire me. And then, you

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know, one of the things that I did to kind of

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prove myself is often in those environments.

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um things just start happening and i would always

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just pitch in so i never waited i never asked

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uh you know i never waited to be asked to help

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i just thought like when i went to cnn to go

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and talk to them about getting a job and the

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phone started ringing and people were busy i

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started answering the phones you know and um

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that always ended up getting me hired somehow

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the worst job interview i only ever did one job

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interview in my whole life and it was for british

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television and they asked me which of the correspondents

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on their show, on their morning news program,

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I liked. I'd never watched their news program.

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I knew who they were, you know, because I'd worked

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alongside various people over the years. But

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I only knew one person that had ever reported

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there. And I said, well, you know, and I named

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that person. They said, who else? And I was like,

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I walked out of there. I thought, I am definitely

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not getting that job. And I do not deserve to

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get it. And lo and behold, I actually got that

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job. So how did I get there? Well, very much,

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you know, I got there by putting myself in the

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right position. I got there by focusing on the

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things that mattered. And I got there by being

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bold, I guess, in a way. But I just understood

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that I needed to be a real journalist, to have

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something of value to offer. I needed to be and

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see there and witness things firsthand. I needed

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to understand. I couldn't take someone else's

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word for it. I couldn't be, you know, 12 miles

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back from the front. at lines in afghanistan

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and pretend that i knew what was happening on

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the front line i had to be on the front line

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and you know remarkably few people actually are

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willing to do that some will do it for a moment

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you know for a time but i went you know i wanted

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to see it through so i went and lived with afghan

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troops in afghanistan during the war first war

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with the taliban and um And I was staying a few

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miles back where most of the journalists were,

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and I realized after a couple nights, this isn't

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working. I can't wake up in the morning and not

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know what they bombed in the night. So I went

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and lived with the Afghan soldiers. And sometimes,

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you know, people were willing to do that, and

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sometimes they weren't. But for me, it was never

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about, like, when I was home, I could have a

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hot meal. If I really needed to sit on a toilet

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or sleep in a bed or do it that badly, then I

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figured I was in the wrong job, you know? So

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I just didn't worry about that. And there was

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a correspondent once, Steve Harrigan from Fox

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News. And, you know, we didn't associate a whole

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lot with Fox News when they started. We thought

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they were crazy because they were politically

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defined. Who are these people? And I was so shocked

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that anyone would think that you have a conservative

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viewpoint because I was like, what do they mean?

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We're biased. I didn't understand that because

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it never even occurred to me that there was any

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bias. And so I was friends with this correspondent

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and we were in Afghanistan. He was the only other

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person there on the front line, him and his cameraman,

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Joel. And we hadn't bathed, you know, or eaten

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really in a while. And he said, you know, I spoke

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to my brother -in -law this morning and he said,

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you are so lucky. And he said, I thought about

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that. And what does he mean? I'm so lucky. Like,

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you know, this is as rough as it gets and we're

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being bombed and, you know, and so on every night.

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And he said, then it hit me. I really am lucky

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to be here. And that made me think, yes, there's

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nowhere else in the world I'd rather be right

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now. So I stopped thinking about the next meal

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or, you know, a clean bed or what it would be

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like to bathe. You know, I stopped thinking about

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things that really didn't matter very much. I

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just realized that I needed not to focus on things

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that didn't matter and focus on the things that

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did matter. And, you know, when you're in that

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situation, Just your basic survival is pretty

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time consuming because you don't necessarily

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have power. You don't necessarily have food.

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You don't necessarily have toilet paper. You

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know, that kind of thing. How am I going to wash

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my hair? I am on television. When are we moving

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to the front? What's happening with the battle?

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And how do I keep producing content? You know,

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well, not content. That's sort of a buzzword

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for modern. you know day social media more it's

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like what's my next story what is important here

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that i need to be communicating and how do i

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capture that and then of course i was on my own

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and i was in television so i had a lot of um

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I had a lot of logistics to deal with on a daily

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basis. And I just, I learned how to flip the

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switch, you know, which was, I always tell my

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children, my children would say, Mom, I'm hungry.

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Mom, I'm cold. You know, when you're somewhere

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where you can't meet their immediate needs, you

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just say, I say to them, come on, flip the switch.

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Like, just think how lucky we are to be here

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right now for this reason. Yeah. I mean, sometimes

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it works. Sometimes it doesn't. It always works

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for me because I have a very singular minded,

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like I know why I'm here. I know what I'm meant

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to do. And I just focus on that. And fortunately,

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you know, I found good people along the way who

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were who also cared about that, who cared about

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the journalism more than. than the stardom or,

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you know, just finding like -minded people with

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real principles who were focused on the task

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at hand and then making it happen. And I never

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thought about, honestly, I never thought about

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what I looked like. I mean, obviously I would,

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you know, try to stay clean and do my makeup

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in the morning, but then I'd go out and do my

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job, you know, and I just, I focused on, I think,

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the things that really mattered. And I took opportunities

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where I could find them. I created opportunities

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where I could. You know, on a Saturday night

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when I was at the newspaper and I was 17, there

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was a lot of violence in South Africa at the

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time. And I volunteered for all the jobs none

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of the other journalists wanted to do because

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they had families, they had lives. This was a

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career for them. For me, it was the beginning

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of something of my whole life and everything

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that I cared about. And so when they said...

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you know i said i'll stay on a saturday night

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and get the first edition of the paper and go

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and deliver it to we would deliver it to the

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fire station the morgue the hospital and the

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police and that's because there was no this is

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1988 right there's no internet at that time so

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how did you make contacts how did you learn how

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did you find out what was going on you couldn't

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google anything so you went down you talked to

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the guy overnight in the police station and you

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made friends and hopefully he would tell you

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how many people you know they how many bodies

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they picked up and how they were killed and whatever

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and you then you go to the morgue and you know

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talk to the guy at the morgue and get him to

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do the same thing and then get when he got friendly

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with me he'd let me see the bodies you know and

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then you could talk about well how did this person

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die and then when they came out the next day

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and said this many people died you were like

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no that's not true and you knew because i knew

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because i saw the bodies with my own eyes and

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so i learned the value of first -hand reporting

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and i learned the value of relationships and

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i i I guess I learned a lot from the way that

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I came up through the industry, and I just put

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the craft before anything else, and it worked.

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So what did you get on 60 Minutes? Was that your

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big break? What year was that? Well, you know,

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I spent a couple of years trying to get a job

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at CNN because I thought that was the perfect

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mix of hard news, but also television, because

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I'd been working for a news agency for many years.

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And the frustrating thing with news agencies

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is you don't control your end product. So you

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control the inputs, but people can take your

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product and do whatever they want with it. And

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I wanted, you know, to create the final product

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as well. So CNN seemed like a great place to

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do that because I had hard news skills from working

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at an agency. But I ended up. having a fight

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with my boss. And he was really rude to me. So

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I slammed the newsroom door as hard as I could,

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hoping the window would shatter. And it didn't,

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fortunately. And I left. I turned my back on

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a place that was really an incredible home for

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many, many years in South Africa and great people.

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And I got on a plane to London. I flew from South

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Africa to London and I knocked on doors and I

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got a couple of freelance jobs at the networks.

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And I ended up... Working at ABC News for a few

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years on the news desk, which was torture. I

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got to say, I used about one one hundredth of

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my abilities. I'd been running at that point.

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I'd been running quite a big news agency, news

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gathering operation for television for the whole

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of Southern Africa and going into East and West

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Africa. And and so it was to come and work on

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a news newsroom news desk overnight in London

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was. was really quite a test of endurance. But

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I learned from there too, you know? And I just

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took opportunities that came my way. When the

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second intifada happened in the Palestinian territories

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and Israel, I... I found out from a friend that

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a British TV station was looking for a local

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journalist to hire. So I'm in London, but I called

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them and said, oh, I'm just visiting friends

00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:34.580
in London. Yes, I live in Jerusalem. And yes,

00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:36.740
I'd be happy to be your correspondent. And I

00:12:36.740 --> 00:12:38.679
slept on my friend's couch. So, you know, there

00:12:38.679 --> 00:12:40.279
were a lot of things like that along the way.

00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:43.899
But I ended up working at CBS News. And I was

00:12:43.899 --> 00:12:46.340
actually I was working for British television.

00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:50.480
But CBS Radio asked me to do some reporting for

00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:52.940
them because I was the only person. that was

00:12:52.940 --> 00:12:55.460
living on, there was one other journalist, Steve

00:12:55.460 --> 00:12:58.379
Harrigan from Fox, but I was living on the front

00:12:58.379 --> 00:13:01.120
line in Afghanistan during the US bombing campaign

00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:04.100
on my own, and they didn't have anyone. So I

00:13:04.100 --> 00:13:06.200
started reporting for CBS radio, which ended

00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:09.580
up being reporting for CBS television. And then

00:13:09.580 --> 00:13:12.200
I went and met the boss of 60 Minutes. Because

00:13:12.200 --> 00:13:14.179
once, you know, my war coverage really stood

00:13:14.179 --> 00:13:17.200
out, because honestly, just because I was right

00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:20.279
there. And I think that I had a lot more information

00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:23.240
that was of value than people who were miles

00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:27.679
away. And a lot of people were surprised to see

00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:30.460
a girl like me showing up in a place like that.

00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:33.580
So what's a nice girl like you doing in a place

00:13:33.580 --> 00:13:38.899
like this? My job. So I ended up meeting with

00:13:38.899 --> 00:13:40.940
the executive producer of 60 Minutes, and I was

00:13:40.940 --> 00:13:43.659
on the verge of signing a contract with NBC.

00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:47.080
And, you know, they promised me all kinds of

00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:49.820
things. I even got tickets to Paul McCartney

00:13:49.820 --> 00:13:52.299
at Madison Square Gardens to try and sweeten

00:13:52.299 --> 00:13:55.299
the deal. But it was no question when I got offered

00:13:55.299 --> 00:13:59.460
a job at 60 Minutes 2 at the time that that was

00:13:59.460 --> 00:14:01.759
where I wanted to be. And I, you know, I didn't

00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:04.139
look back. It was 16 years later. I was chief

00:14:04.139 --> 00:14:06.460
foreign correspondent and full -time correspondent

00:14:06.460 --> 00:14:10.360
at 60 Minutes and all of that until I got canceled.

00:14:10.740 --> 00:14:13.019
Yeah, let's talk about Benghazi. Is that the

00:14:13.019 --> 00:14:14.639
show we're going to talk about? Yep, that was

00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:18.360
it. That was it. So educate our audience a little

00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:22.580
bit. What's Benghazi all about? Libya, some crazy

00:14:22.580 --> 00:14:24.779
stuff that happened, and you were accused of

00:14:24.779 --> 00:14:26.419
some faulty reporting, I believe. That's what

00:14:26.419 --> 00:14:29.299
happened? Yeah. Tell us what happened. Share

00:14:29.299 --> 00:14:33.759
with us. Well, you know, I think what happened

00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:37.120
to me is that I was living in Iraq for five years.

00:14:37.659 --> 00:14:39.940
You know, I spent most of my time away from the

00:14:39.940 --> 00:14:42.360
center of power, if you like, in the United States.

00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:45.360
And I kind of stuck to stories. I didn't really

00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:47.539
report on American politics because I didn't

00:14:47.539 --> 00:14:50.379
feel qualified. You know, I wasn't American.

00:14:50.419 --> 00:14:52.840
I hadn't grown up in America. And I just really

00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:56.100
thought that that was better served by people

00:14:56.100 --> 00:14:59.840
who knew more than I did. So I focused on the

00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:03.509
stories that... were more challenging for most

00:15:03.509 --> 00:15:05.769
people right most people don't want to do most

00:15:05.769 --> 00:15:07.149
people don't want to live with afghan soldiers

00:15:07.149 --> 00:15:11.190
for months at a time and um and so i but i did

00:15:11.190 --> 00:15:13.690
and i was good at it and i grew up in africa

00:15:13.690 --> 00:15:16.230
and i knew how to survive in those kind of environments

00:15:16.230 --> 00:15:18.850
it really didn't bother me very much and so i

00:15:18.850 --> 00:15:23.710
i it wasn't until i was pulled out of iraq after

00:15:23.710 --> 00:15:26.289
living there for five years and cbs brought me

00:15:26.289 --> 00:15:29.639
to the united states and then Then I kind of

00:15:29.639 --> 00:15:34.639
got a baptism of fire in the corridors of power

00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:37.940
in America and in American media. So I had been

00:15:37.940 --> 00:15:42.019
very happily and somewhat naively trucking along.

00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:45.879
doing my own thing, doing the stories that I

00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:50.779
believed in, and receiving awards and recognition

00:15:50.779 --> 00:15:53.879
for them, and rising through the ranks at CBS,

00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:55.340
even though there were a lot of people who made

00:15:55.340 --> 00:15:57.919
that very difficult. And there were some great

00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:02.340
people who made it happen. But then, once I was

00:16:02.340 --> 00:16:06.299
in the United States, now I'm living in Washington,

00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:10.019
D .C. And now I'm really at a level where people

00:16:10.019 --> 00:16:12.159
are paying attention. Like, I'll give you an

00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:15.379
example. I am six months pregnant. My phone rings

00:16:15.379 --> 00:16:19.159
in the D .C. office. I pick up the phone. It's

00:16:19.159 --> 00:16:21.100
my landline. And there's a voice on the other

00:16:21.100 --> 00:16:23.259
end that says, hey, Lara, how you doing? And

00:16:23.259 --> 00:16:25.799
it's I don't even know who this person is. Turns

00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:28.080
out to be David Axelrod, you know, who is working

00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:30.580
with Obama. And he's like, the boss is this is

00:16:30.580 --> 00:16:33.299
when Obama was running for office. Boss is going

00:16:33.299 --> 00:16:35.200
to Afghanistan. And how would you like an exclusive?

00:16:35.539 --> 00:16:37.940
I should have known then. When I heard those

00:16:37.940 --> 00:16:42.200
words come out of his mouth, that it was a bad

00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:45.559
sign because nobody offers you anything in this

00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:48.179
business, in my experience, right? I had to fight

00:16:48.179 --> 00:16:51.080
for it. Every story I did. And when you do get

00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:52.720
off at something, it's probably for the wrong

00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:55.460
reasons. But I didn't I naively thought, oh,

00:16:55.500 --> 00:16:57.679
wow. OK, yes. I mean, who would say no to that?

00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:00.620
And if I went to Afghanistan, I was pregnant

00:17:00.620 --> 00:17:03.519
and I did a good interview with Obama and it

00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:05.640
went everywhere and all that. But what I realized

00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:08.799
years later was I was selected because he didn't

00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:11.299
have any foreign policy credentials in that campaign.

00:17:11.579 --> 00:17:14.319
He hadn't been abroad. And that was a weakness

00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:17.700
for him. And so they used me. to give him the

00:17:17.700 --> 00:17:20.779
credentials that he didn't have. And I didn't

00:17:20.779 --> 00:17:23.079
understand how the media worked at that time.

00:17:23.259 --> 00:17:28.079
I was very genuine, and I worked really hard,

00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:32.180
and we all did, I thought. And then what happened

00:17:32.180 --> 00:17:36.839
is I realized, because I started winning more

00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:39.319
and more awards, and I had a much bigger platform

00:17:39.319 --> 00:17:41.839
I was taking. I became full -time at 60 Minutes,

00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:43.920
and I was taking on a bigger role and a bigger

00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:46.980
voice. and there was a little problem and it's

00:17:46.980 --> 00:17:50.660
called real journalism because i did things like

00:17:50.660 --> 00:17:52.799
follow for two and a half years i followed the

00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:56.160
battlefield reports from afghanistan and i realized

00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.460
that when obama was going out and he was saying

00:17:58.460 --> 00:18:00.740
that al -qaeda was on the run and al -qaeda was

00:18:00.740 --> 00:18:03.019
defeated and he and the head of the cia was saying

00:18:03.019 --> 00:18:05.299
that there were only a couple hundred less than

00:18:05.299 --> 00:18:08.119
200 or something like that al -qaeda left in

00:18:08.119 --> 00:18:11.299
the world and i was like what are they talking

00:18:11.299 --> 00:18:14.809
about because I was still reading the battlefield

00:18:14.809 --> 00:18:17.799
reports every day. Coming out of that place where

00:18:17.799 --> 00:18:20.759
I had lived for a year and spent many, many,

00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:22.859
many more months, many more trips reporting.

00:18:23.099 --> 00:18:25.859
I was like, this is not true. Why would they

00:18:25.859 --> 00:18:28.400
be doing this? I mean, I really thought the Bushes,

00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:30.759
the Cheneys, all those people were bad. And when

00:18:30.759 --> 00:18:33.059
Obama came in, I thought, OK, here's the second

00:18:33.059 --> 00:18:35.799
coming of Christ. Right. We've got someone who's

00:18:35.799 --> 00:18:37.359
actually going to tell the truth about what's

00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:38.940
happening on the battlefield, who's going to

00:18:38.940 --> 00:18:40.859
do the right thing for the right reasons. And

00:18:40.859 --> 00:18:43.299
what I learned was that that wasn't true at all

00:18:43.299 --> 00:18:46.579
in any way, shape or form. And so there was not

00:18:46.579 --> 00:18:49.180
only the deceit, there was a sense of betrayal.

00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:53.420
But that didn't motivate me. I mean, I was interested

00:18:53.420 --> 00:18:57.599
in the truth. And if there was a threat from

00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:01.180
Islamic terrorism, I didn't want to be lied to

00:19:01.180 --> 00:19:04.500
about it. And so when I added up the number of

00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:06.279
al -Qaeda that were killed and injured on the

00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:09.380
battlefield on a daily or weekly or monthly basis,

00:19:09.579 --> 00:19:11.500
it dwarfed the number that they said existed

00:19:11.500 --> 00:19:14.490
in the world. So I did what I always did. I got

00:19:14.490 --> 00:19:16.829
people on the ground. We got people inside a

00:19:16.829 --> 00:19:19.190
suicide bomber training camp. We got them training

00:19:19.190 --> 00:19:24.730
kids how to kill American soldiers. And we showed

00:19:24.730 --> 00:19:27.289
that they were lying. And I think that's the

00:19:27.289 --> 00:19:29.630
story that really got the target on my back.

00:19:30.029 --> 00:19:33.049
So it didn't help that I was doing Benghazi.

00:19:33.430 --> 00:19:36.210
There's another red flag with Benghazi. This

00:19:36.210 --> 00:19:39.470
was real journalism. So you did real journalism.

00:19:40.190 --> 00:19:42.710
Yes. And you know what the response was to that

00:19:42.710 --> 00:19:46.450
story when it came out? They banned all battlefield

00:19:46.450 --> 00:19:50.230
reporting. Wow. So they just stopped doing those

00:19:50.230 --> 00:19:55.650
reports because it exposed them. So when I did

00:19:55.650 --> 00:19:58.769
the Benghazi story, you know, I should have known

00:19:58.769 --> 00:20:01.420
that. there was something not quite right. Because

00:20:01.420 --> 00:20:04.099
you had such a big issue happen with Benghazi.

00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:06.339
You had a United States ambassador, Chris Stevens,

00:20:06.619 --> 00:20:09.599
was the first American ambassador who was killed

00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:13.619
in more than half a century. And Benghazi flared

00:20:13.619 --> 00:20:17.069
when it happened, and then it kind of died. And

00:20:17.069 --> 00:20:19.450
it didn't make a whole lot of sense that there

00:20:19.450 --> 00:20:22.069
wouldn't be a team at 60 Minutes that wasn't

00:20:22.069 --> 00:20:24.829
really pursuing that story because it's a natural

00:20:24.829 --> 00:20:27.430
kind of story. I mean, not only did Chris Stevens

00:20:27.430 --> 00:20:30.710
die, but you lost Glenn Daugherty and Tyrone

00:20:30.710 --> 00:20:33.890
Woods. So you had two special operators who were

00:20:33.890 --> 00:20:37.109
killed working for the CIA as part of, you know,

00:20:37.109 --> 00:20:40.789
GRS, which was their protective security service

00:20:40.789 --> 00:20:46.119
that the CIA uses abroad. You had Islamic terrorist

00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:50.400
elements and you had a big scandal. So that's

00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:53.019
got all the elements for what the question is,

00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:55.680
what really happened in Benghazi? It didn't make

00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:59.240
sense that the Obama administration didn't send

00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:03.839
in anyone to save these guys. And then I was

00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:06.339
at my, strangely enough, my daughter's christening.

00:21:06.779 --> 00:21:10.099
And we had a party at our house after the christening

00:21:10.099 --> 00:21:11.859
at the National Cathedral in Washington, D .C.

00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:14.259
And I got a friend come up to me and say he'd

00:21:14.259 --> 00:21:16.359
just come back from Fort Bragg, North Carolina.

00:21:16.759 --> 00:21:20.019
And he had a message for me from someone of significance

00:21:20.019 --> 00:21:23.400
who I can't say who. And this person said, you

00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:27.480
know, you want to look at the two guys that we

00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:30.240
had on the ground in Benghazi. Because if it

00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:32.519
weren't for them, we would have had the worst

00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:35.759
hostage crisis. in American history, and certainly

00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:38.380
since the Iranian hostage crisis. Now that got

00:21:38.380 --> 00:21:40.920
my attention. As you know, there was no mention

00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:43.839
of Obama or Hillary or Democrat or Republican.

00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:47.700
This was a story that was, you know, a tip that

00:21:47.700 --> 00:21:50.220
came to me that said, we were in real trouble.

00:21:50.420 --> 00:21:54.240
What really happened is not known. And when you

00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:57.440
find out the details, you're going to, you won't

00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:00.680
believe it. So I started to investigate. And

00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:03.599
what I learned was that we had two operators

00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:06.799
for Delta Force on the ground in Libya whose

00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:11.000
job was to collect all of these weapons, many

00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:13.299
of which had been supplied to the Libyans by

00:22:13.299 --> 00:22:16.339
the United States, and they wanted these weapons

00:22:16.339 --> 00:22:19.740
gone. Now, this is not uncommon. We have units

00:22:19.740 --> 00:22:22.980
and we have entities within the United States

00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:24.579
government, especially under the Defense Intelligence

00:22:24.579 --> 00:22:27.740
Agency and Department of Defense, whose job it

00:22:27.740 --> 00:22:30.440
is to track weapons that are made in the U .S.

00:22:30.460 --> 00:22:33.759
or sold by the U .S. and so on. And what was

00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:36.500
the issue here was that these two gentlemen,

00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:40.960
when they heard Chris Stevens under attack, they

00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:44.279
went all around the embassy in Tripoli, the capital

00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:48.160
of Libya, and they collected money from the people,

00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:51.980
the staff, and they hired a small plane, and

00:22:51.980 --> 00:22:55.759
they flew down to Benghazi. And they were the

00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:58.500
ones who contacted a local militia because when

00:22:58.500 --> 00:23:01.039
you have special operators, they rely heavily

00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:04.140
on local alliances because they don't come with

00:23:04.140 --> 00:23:07.039
force and with numbers. They come with speciality,

00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:10.259
right? Special skills. And they got this local

00:23:10.259 --> 00:23:13.319
militia and they were the ones that got that

00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:15.259
militia to go and retrieve Chris Stevens's body

00:23:15.259 --> 00:23:18.599
from the hospital. And they were the ones that

00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:22.160
fought their way to the CIA annex and rescued.

00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:25.359
the remaining Americans who were still alive,

00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:28.599
and brought back the bodies of Glenn Daugherty

00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:31.640
and Tyrone Woods. And not once were they ordered

00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:34.920
by anyone in their chain of command. Not once

00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:37.619
did an order come from Washington, D .C. These

00:23:37.619 --> 00:23:41.099
guys went on their own steam. And if it were

00:23:41.099 --> 00:23:44.019
not for them, the hundreds and hundreds of al

00:23:44.019 --> 00:23:46.339
-Qaeda operatives and Islamic terrorists that

00:23:46.339 --> 00:23:49.440
had surrounded the annex could possibly have

00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:53.099
overwhelmed the annex. Now that... is a phenomenal

00:23:53.099 --> 00:23:55.880
story by anybody's standards. Because nobody

00:23:55.880 --> 00:23:58.980
even knew that these two guys were involved in

00:23:58.980 --> 00:24:02.599
Benghazi. And how was I able to verify the details?

00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:06.000
Well, because they were both up for medals. Now,

00:24:06.039 --> 00:24:08.140
one of them, his branch of service when he went

00:24:08.140 --> 00:24:13.700
into the army was already Navy. So he got the

00:24:13.700 --> 00:24:16.339
Navy cross. And the other one got the Silver

00:24:16.339 --> 00:24:19.460
Star. If these two guys, if this had not been

00:24:19.460 --> 00:24:21.480
a political event, they would have been up for

00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:23.680
the Medal of Honor. But you can't give them the

00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:25.740
Medal of Honor when you've got Hillary Clinton

00:24:25.740 --> 00:24:28.240
has already said, what difference would it make,

00:24:28.380 --> 00:24:30.920
right? Everybody, there's been a furore over

00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:33.420
what really happened in Benghazi and nobody knows

00:24:33.420 --> 00:24:36.740
the truth. So this was a fascinating story for

00:24:36.740 --> 00:24:38.960
me. This was something really important. And

00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:41.900
about six months into that investigation. I got

00:24:41.900 --> 00:24:45.539
contacted by a woman at CBS who deals with books

00:24:45.539 --> 00:24:47.640
because we had an office. Neil Armstrong writes

00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:49.799
a book. Who does he want? 60 Minutes. You want

00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:52.380
to sell your book? You go to 60 Minutes. I never

00:24:52.380 --> 00:24:54.920
got any of those stories because I was low down

00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:57.640
in the pecking order. I had people, giants like

00:24:57.640 --> 00:25:00.359
Ed Bradley and Mike Wallace and Morley Safer

00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:03.240
ahead of me. You know, and you think these people.

00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:06.039
You think I had any say I was going to get a

00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:09.059
layup like that? Here's a great story. Go do

00:25:09.059 --> 00:25:11.720
it. No, I had to go and live in the, you know,

00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:13.579
and walk through sewage canals and live in the

00:25:13.579 --> 00:25:16.160
trenches and come up with my own reporting. So

00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:19.440
I didn't mind that. I actually liked that. But

00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:22.759
when we, you know, one after another, these Benghazi

00:25:22.759 --> 00:25:24.759
books started popping up and they were being

00:25:24.759 --> 00:25:27.839
thrown at me. And I, you know, a couple of them.

00:25:28.349 --> 00:25:30.990
were just nonsense. I later found out that, you

00:25:30.990 --> 00:25:32.990
know, one was actually just a made up narrative

00:25:32.990 --> 00:25:36.410
by Clinton allies that was meant to be disinformation

00:25:36.410 --> 00:25:38.950
and lead us astray. But I didn't fall for any

00:25:38.950 --> 00:25:41.769
of that. But the one book that we got was from

00:25:41.769 --> 00:25:46.069
a guy, a British security contractor who had

00:25:46.069 --> 00:25:48.410
been hired by the State Department. He'd been

00:25:48.410 --> 00:25:51.130
vetted by the State Department, and he was responsible

00:25:51.130 --> 00:25:53.890
for the perimeter, the outer security at Benghazi.

00:25:54.349 --> 00:25:59.569
And so we started talking to him and his co -author

00:25:59.569 --> 00:26:04.250
of the book. And this turned out later to be

00:26:04.250 --> 00:26:06.789
a Simon & Schuster book, but that had nothing

00:26:06.789 --> 00:26:09.349
to do with it at the time. And he was the only

00:26:09.349 --> 00:26:12.410
person in our story who had been on the ground.

00:26:12.809 --> 00:26:15.569
and actually witnessed as an eyewitness and you

00:26:15.569 --> 00:26:18.450
know of course with reporting a first -hand witness

00:26:18.450 --> 00:26:22.529
first -hand source is always better than a second

00:26:22.529 --> 00:26:25.130
-hand source and so that's what drew us to his

00:26:25.130 --> 00:26:28.609
story and we we vetted him extensively we got

00:26:28.609 --> 00:26:30.829
copies of his military records from his unit

00:26:30.829 --> 00:26:35.329
in the uk we got photocopies of the stamps in

00:26:35.329 --> 00:26:37.849
his passport that showed that he was in Libya

00:26:37.849 --> 00:26:40.029
when he said he was in Libya, that he actually

00:26:40.029 --> 00:26:42.710
went to Benghazi. We got photographs of him on

00:26:42.710 --> 00:26:45.130
the ground. We verified him with the State Department.

00:26:45.349 --> 00:26:49.269
We did absolutely everything that we could. But

00:26:49.269 --> 00:26:52.670
the one thing... that we agreed to do was sign

00:26:52.670 --> 00:26:55.069
an NDA, which was written by CBS's attorneys.

00:26:55.509 --> 00:26:59.569
It was a standard NDA. CBS had two NDAs that

00:26:59.569 --> 00:27:02.890
they would use frequently. And in that NDA, we

00:27:02.890 --> 00:27:05.269
agreed that we would not reveal the contents

00:27:05.269 --> 00:27:09.349
of the book and his story about what happened

00:27:09.349 --> 00:27:12.549
that night of the attack to anyone outside of

00:27:12.549 --> 00:27:15.710
our bosses at 60 Minutes for the purpose of deciding

00:27:15.710 --> 00:27:17.569
whether or not we would do the story with him.

00:27:17.730 --> 00:27:23.289
So this was something That we took very seriously.

00:27:23.650 --> 00:27:26.569
And it was really quite amazing. Because in the

00:27:26.569 --> 00:27:29.829
end, when they came after us for our poor reporting,

00:27:30.029 --> 00:27:33.789
this is what they attacked. Is that we hadn't

00:27:33.789 --> 00:27:36.630
vetted his story. And I looked at my boss and

00:27:36.630 --> 00:27:38.869
I was like, huh? Did he deceive you at the end

00:27:38.869 --> 00:27:40.750
of the day? Did he deceive you? Well, they came

00:27:40.750 --> 00:27:44.970
out. The thing is, this guy told us that when

00:27:44.970 --> 00:27:47.779
the attack happened. He was at his apartment

00:27:47.779 --> 00:27:49.740
because he lived in the city of Benghazi. He

00:27:49.740 --> 00:27:51.400
didn't live at the special mission compound.

00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:55.819
And that he had gone there to check on his friends.

00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:57.980
And that he hadn't been able to get near because

00:27:57.980 --> 00:28:00.440
the fires were raging and so on and so on. And

00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:02.259
all the roads were blocked and he described everything

00:28:02.259 --> 00:28:04.779
that he saw. And then he went to the hospital

00:28:04.779 --> 00:28:07.740
and he says he saw Chris Stevens' body. There's

00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:09.579
a whole lot more detail and I won't go into it

00:28:09.579 --> 00:28:12.019
because it's already a long story. But then he

00:28:12.019 --> 00:28:14.920
says he goes back to his... apartment and some

00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:16.660
more of his guys because he trained all these

00:28:16.660 --> 00:28:19.180
local security guys and he's very close to them

00:28:19.180 --> 00:28:21.400
and he gets a phone call by the way from one

00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:23.259
of the state department regional security officers

00:28:23.259 --> 00:28:26.319
who says to him this is what we talked about

00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:29.859
our worst nightmare has come to fruition And

00:28:29.859 --> 00:28:31.819
exactly what we feared is happening and we're

00:28:31.819 --> 00:28:34.099
all going to die. And he tells us about this

00:28:34.099 --> 00:28:36.759
bond that he has with this guy and how, you know,

00:28:36.779 --> 00:28:38.900
they agreed they would always come to each other's

00:28:38.900 --> 00:28:41.299
rescue if they ever needed it. And so he's just

00:28:41.299 --> 00:28:43.740
wrestling with himself. And when his guys show

00:28:43.740 --> 00:28:46.220
up, he goes back for a second time. And this

00:28:46.220 --> 00:28:48.039
is when he says he scaled over the wall using

00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:50.400
some construction. And he looks around. He can't

00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:52.700
find anyone, can't find any Americans. Someone

00:28:52.700 --> 00:28:54.940
spots him. He hides in a dog kennel. And then

00:28:54.940 --> 00:28:57.069
this guy. you know, calls him closer. He's getting

00:28:57.069 --> 00:28:59.089
by with his limited Arabic and it's dark and

00:28:59.089 --> 00:29:01.329
all the chaos. But then a guy starts to pay attention

00:29:01.329 --> 00:29:03.910
to him and calls him over. And he and, you know,

00:29:03.950 --> 00:29:06.490
he punches this guy in the face, runs and escapes.

00:29:07.250 --> 00:29:09.650
That's it. And then the next day. So he goes

00:29:09.650 --> 00:29:12.910
back to his his place and tell he doesn't tell

00:29:12.910 --> 00:29:15.910
his boss that he went back there. He lies to

00:29:15.910 --> 00:29:17.750
his boss and says, I stayed at the compound all

00:29:17.750 --> 00:29:19.769
night. But in the morning on the way to the airport,

00:29:19.970 --> 00:29:23.009
he goes by the compound again. He takes all of

00:29:23.009 --> 00:29:25.569
the photographs. that actually provided the basis

00:29:25.569 --> 00:29:28.009
for the FBI. Remember, the FBI took weeks to

00:29:28.009 --> 00:29:30.789
go in, and he took all these photographs, which

00:29:30.789 --> 00:29:33.829
were used as evidence in the Benghazi investigation

00:29:33.829 --> 00:29:37.549
and in the prosecution, you know, certainly throughout

00:29:37.549 --> 00:29:41.569
the investigations. And what they did to us was

00:29:41.569 --> 00:29:45.289
they said that this guy was lying, not about

00:29:45.289 --> 00:29:48.200
going the first time. not about going on his

00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:49.900
way to the airport and taking all the photographs,

00:29:50.119 --> 00:29:52.440
not about being there and seeing what he's seeing.

00:29:52.619 --> 00:29:55.900
They said that he lied about scaling the wall

00:29:55.900 --> 00:29:58.700
and essentially doing nothing, that he made up

00:29:58.700 --> 00:30:02.720
that tale. He says, I didn't lie. He tells us

00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:05.220
they produced, what they did is they ran a smear

00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:08.960
campaign that was extremely efficient. It was

00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:11.859
extremely well funded. It was run by elements

00:30:11.859 --> 00:30:16.680
within the Obama administration, but also elements

00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:19.920
without like media matters for america and they

00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:23.339
went one by one by one to every reporter in dc

00:30:23.339 --> 00:30:25.799
that they could reach and to every news outlet

00:30:25.799 --> 00:30:28.099
and to everyone and they were shopping around

00:30:28.099 --> 00:30:31.160
this document that they claimed was an after

00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:34.000
-action report supposedly written by the security

00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:36.380
company by this guy and the security company

00:30:36.380 --> 00:30:40.720
he worked for that said he didn't go uh he he

00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:43.119
went there the first time then he spent the night

00:30:43.119 --> 00:30:45.099
at his place and he went back again the next

00:30:45.099 --> 00:30:48.910
day And he never went on that second visit. And

00:30:48.910 --> 00:30:51.769
he looked at this and he said to us, I've never,

00:30:51.890 --> 00:30:54.970
this matches what I told my boss, but I never

00:30:54.970 --> 00:30:57.069
wrote this. And I've never seen this report.

00:30:57.250 --> 00:30:59.430
If that report was real, it would be classified.

00:30:59.789 --> 00:31:03.849
But nobody cared about that. And this guy was

00:31:03.849 --> 00:31:06.150
holding his ground saying, I've never seen it.

00:31:06.190 --> 00:31:08.549
It's not, you know. And we went to the deputy.

00:31:09.079 --> 00:31:11.700
Chris Stevens had a deputy ambassador, Greg Hicks.

00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:14.359
We took this document to Greg Hicks. He said,

00:31:14.420 --> 00:31:17.380
I've never seen that document in my life. And

00:31:17.380 --> 00:31:19.759
by the way, it has a stamp on it that says U

00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:22.299
.S. Embassy Benghazi. And we don't have a U .S.

00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:24.799
Embassy in Benghazi. We have a special mission

00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:27.960
compound, which is a whole nother legal entity.

00:31:28.119 --> 00:31:31.119
And in diplomatic terms, it's a big deal. And

00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:34.140
so he said to us, this document, you know, I

00:31:34.140 --> 00:31:37.339
can't tell you it's for sure it's fake. But if

00:31:37.339 --> 00:31:39.759
it was real. There's no reason I wouldn't have

00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:42.500
seen it because I took over. Ten minutes into

00:31:42.500 --> 00:31:44.880
the attack, Chris Stevens called Greg Hicks.

00:31:44.980 --> 00:31:47.559
Greg Hicks was the last person to speak to Chris

00:31:47.559 --> 00:31:50.680
Stevens when he was alive. And I believe the

00:31:50.680 --> 00:31:54.339
real reason they went after our reporting was

00:31:54.339 --> 00:31:57.059
because of what Greg Hicks said. When I asked

00:31:57.059 --> 00:32:01.160
him about... whether they cried called for help

00:32:01.160 --> 00:32:03.839
and he said of course and he said that that the

00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:07.039
defense attache who for those of you who don't

00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:08.819
know the defense attache is usually your top

00:32:08.819 --> 00:32:12.079
spy in any embassy right he said i looked at

00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:15.759
the defense attache and i said to him well and

00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:17.400
he looked at me this is what gray hicks said

00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:20.240
under oath when he testified before congress

00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:22.900
and it's what he told us in our 60 minutes piece

00:32:22.900 --> 00:32:27.089
he said i looked at this man and i I asked him,

00:32:27.130 --> 00:32:29.630
well, and he said he looked at me and he said,

00:32:29.670 --> 00:32:32.369
I'm sorry, Greg, but the cavalry ain't coming.

00:32:33.289 --> 00:32:37.789
And he said, and that decision never changed.

00:32:37.990 --> 00:32:40.869
So think about this. Ten minutes into the attack,

00:32:41.089 --> 00:32:44.829
he asks, are we getting any help? The defense

00:32:44.829 --> 00:32:48.230
attache says no. And he says that decision never

00:32:48.230 --> 00:32:51.450
changed. And he said, you know, I felt sick in

00:32:51.450 --> 00:32:54.759
the pit of my stomach because those of us. who

00:32:54.759 --> 00:32:57.019
go out on the end of the line for our country,

00:32:57.180 --> 00:33:00.880
we believe our country has our back. And in that

00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:04.440
moment, I knew they didn't. And I looked at him

00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:07.839
and I said, we got to tell the boys at the annex.

00:33:08.599 --> 00:33:12.599
Now two of those boys at the annex died. that

00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:15.759
night. So you imagine we've gone through all

00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:17.539
of these hearings. We've gone through all of

00:33:17.539 --> 00:33:20.299
this hand -wringing. And everybody's arguing

00:33:20.299 --> 00:33:22.940
about, was it one attack? Was it two attacks?

00:33:23.259 --> 00:33:25.240
Did they know the second one was coming? Could

00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:26.980
they have done something? Could they have gotten

00:33:26.980 --> 00:33:29.339
there fast enough? And so on and so on. And 10

00:33:29.339 --> 00:33:33.180
minutes into the attack, that decision had already

00:33:33.180 --> 00:33:35.779
been made. So the rest of it was all theater.

00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:38.680
And if you look at what has happened since Benghazi,

00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:41.900
We left Americans behind in Benghazi. If it weren't

00:33:41.900 --> 00:33:45.059
for those two operators who I reported on, I

00:33:45.059 --> 00:33:47.299
broke the news about them in my Benghazi report.

00:33:47.859 --> 00:33:51.400
Right. No one would have known about that. That

00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:54.299
was the first time that news was ever heard by

00:33:54.299 --> 00:33:56.019
the American people. And we're talking about

00:33:56.019 --> 00:33:58.200
it had been, you know, it had been more than

00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:01.359
a year since Benghazi had happened. So they didn't

00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:04.279
want that out. And they didn't want Greg Hicks

00:34:04.279 --> 00:34:06.519
to talk. The sad thing about this, though, is.

00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:10.699
What we didn't know until, you know, Trump came

00:34:10.699 --> 00:34:13.039
out with fake news, we thought we were always

00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:16.239
being told the truth. Correct. Meanwhile, what

00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:19.920
you experience has been happening for a really,

00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:22.039
really long time. I mean, you know, my mom was

00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:25.639
born in Iran, and she used to tell me things

00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:28.239
when I was young, like, you just don't know.

00:34:29.099 --> 00:34:31.420
something else is going on you will never know

00:34:31.420 --> 00:34:33.440
because the media will never tell you because

00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:36.340
the CIA is in on it because blah blah blah and

00:34:36.340 --> 00:34:38.360
I'd look at my mom and I'd come on mom really

00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:41.679
you know like I didn't believe it until very

00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:45.219
recently 2016 is when they started to slowly

00:34:45.219 --> 00:34:47.820
open my eyes and it wasn't until 2020 until I

00:34:47.820 --> 00:34:50.820
was wide awake so you're you're in it you're

00:34:50.820 --> 00:34:55.380
on the ground thinking that your job is to do

00:34:55.380 --> 00:34:59.590
real reporting real journalism meanwhile The

00:34:59.590 --> 00:35:02.150
Obamas know what they did. They weren't going

00:35:02.150 --> 00:35:07.110
to help anyone. They knew. And Hillary, by the

00:35:07.110 --> 00:35:09.010
way, because Hillary was running for office.

00:35:09.210 --> 00:35:13.849
And that was my big mistake, is that I underestimated

00:35:13.849 --> 00:35:18.150
what that meant. I had never done a story for

00:35:18.150 --> 00:35:21.070
a political reason. It never occurred to me to

00:35:21.070 --> 00:35:23.369
do a story for a political reason, to hurt a

00:35:23.369 --> 00:35:25.710
candidate or to help a candidate in an election.

00:35:25.869 --> 00:35:29.389
I mean, what are you talking about? That story

00:35:29.389 --> 00:35:32.670
was so damaging to Hillary Clinton because the

00:35:32.670 --> 00:35:35.269
truth was that they did leave Americans behind.

00:35:35.349 --> 00:35:38.170
They let Chris Stevens die. They let Tyrone Woods

00:35:38.170 --> 00:35:40.769
die. They let Glenn Doherty die. And if it weren't

00:35:40.769 --> 00:35:43.710
for those two operators who did everything on

00:35:43.710 --> 00:35:48.429
their own, all of those Americans could potentially

00:35:48.429 --> 00:35:51.510
have died. And they didn't want anybody finding

00:35:51.510 --> 00:35:54.409
that out. Well, let's talk about your cancellation.

00:35:54.550 --> 00:35:57.090
So you were basically roadkill, you know, in

00:35:57.090 --> 00:36:00.130
effect. Somebody had another initiative, and

00:36:00.130 --> 00:36:04.789
so whatever happens to Laura happens, and basically

00:36:04.789 --> 00:36:07.949
you became the fall guy for all of this. They

00:36:07.949 --> 00:36:10.329
had to retract your reporting. Somebody at CBS

00:36:10.329 --> 00:36:13.510
was talking to somebody politically, and they

00:36:13.510 --> 00:36:15.289
decided, you know what, we have to pull the story

00:36:15.289 --> 00:36:17.090
back. It's not in their political best interest,

00:36:17.210 --> 00:36:20.070
and Laura's career is going to be doomed. Is

00:36:20.070 --> 00:36:23.639
that sort of like what happened? Sort of. I mean,

00:36:23.659 --> 00:36:26.780
there's a couple things. One is that Ben Rhodes

00:36:26.780 --> 00:36:30.400
was one of the chief architects of the fake story

00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:33.219
that what happened in Benghazi was because of

00:36:33.219 --> 00:36:36.320
a film. Do you remember that? Yeah. Because there

00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:38.699
were protests in Egypt and other places. They

00:36:38.699 --> 00:36:40.900
tried to say that all of this was about a film

00:36:40.900 --> 00:36:42.519
that had been made that had upset the Islamic

00:36:42.519 --> 00:36:45.539
world. And that was nonsense, right? This was

00:36:45.539 --> 00:36:48.559
a terrorist attack. And Chris Stevens told Greg

00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:51.300
Hicks that when he called him from inside his

00:36:51.300 --> 00:36:55.380
compound not that long before he died. But Ben

00:36:55.380 --> 00:36:58.760
Rhodes' brother, David Rhodes, was the president

00:36:58.760 --> 00:37:03.860
of CBS News at the time. So I have always wanted

00:37:03.860 --> 00:37:06.860
to see the communications between CBS and the

00:37:06.860 --> 00:37:08.900
White House and between David Rhodes and Ben

00:37:08.900 --> 00:37:12.800
Rhodes, right? Because he was later revealed

00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:15.059
to be the person that was really running the

00:37:15.059 --> 00:37:18.039
information operation to cover up what they had

00:37:18.039 --> 00:37:20.559
done in Benghazi. So that's one part of it. The

00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:24.519
second part of it is when I said to people, look,

00:37:24.699 --> 00:37:28.900
we knew that this guy told his boss that he lied

00:37:28.900 --> 00:37:31.690
to his boss. Because he couldn't tell him that

00:37:31.690 --> 00:37:34.570
he went out again. His boss said to him, stay

00:37:34.570 --> 00:37:36.610
put. I don't want anything to happen to you.

00:37:36.929 --> 00:37:41.329
And his story is that he can't betray these people.

00:37:41.409 --> 00:37:43.809
He can't leave them. He's got to try to do something.

00:37:44.010 --> 00:37:46.429
He tries to do something, and he does nothing.

00:37:46.710 --> 00:37:49.610
And he fails. So that was his, you know, if he

00:37:49.610 --> 00:37:52.769
made up, the only part of his story that was

00:37:52.769 --> 00:37:55.650
ever called into question was that. Nothing else

00:37:55.650 --> 00:37:58.360
he said. was called into question except by one

00:37:58.360 --> 00:38:00.219
or two random people who tried to say that he

00:38:00.219 --> 00:38:02.380
wasn't really in the military or you know they

00:38:02.380 --> 00:38:04.340
made up a few other things but those died on

00:38:04.340 --> 00:38:08.159
the vine our problem was that when we said well

00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:09.780
we knew he lied to his boss they said well then

00:38:09.780 --> 00:38:12.559
you put a known liar on television you know and

00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:16.239
so they had figured it out they found um a mechanism

00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:19.420
by which to discredit us no matter what and i

00:38:19.420 --> 00:38:21.320
actually found out from another reporter that

00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:25.179
They had two lines of operation ready to go.

00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:28.260
So whichever version of his story we went with,

00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:31.980
they had the attack prepared. And then they have

00:38:31.980 --> 00:38:34.659
their people that they have placed throughout

00:38:34.659 --> 00:38:38.179
the media, and they use those people because

00:38:38.179 --> 00:38:41.119
they know that those people are going to do and

00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:43.940
say whatever they want. So we had this woman,

00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:47.039
Nancy Youssef from McClatchy. We ended our story

00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:51.349
with a page of Chris Stevens' schedule. But that

00:38:51.349 --> 00:38:56.070
day in Benghazi. Yeah, they folded McClatchy.

00:38:56.130 --> 00:38:58.389
They've gone to the trash bin of history where

00:38:58.389 --> 00:39:02.969
they belong. But what Nancy Youssef did was she

00:39:02.969 --> 00:39:07.349
said that even the image of Evans' schedule,

00:39:07.829 --> 00:39:09.989
which was still lying in the ruins of that building

00:39:09.989 --> 00:39:13.050
where he died, was faked because the building

00:39:13.050 --> 00:39:15.130
had been renovated, which was complete nonsense.

00:39:15.309 --> 00:39:17.110
There were three buildings, and only one of them

00:39:17.110 --> 00:39:19.869
had been renovated, and that building... was

00:39:19.869 --> 00:39:22.289
very much still in ruins. So they just got to

00:39:22.289 --> 00:39:24.210
make up stuff. They got to make up whatever they

00:39:24.210 --> 00:39:26.710
wanted. Because when you've got everybody attacking

00:39:26.710 --> 00:39:30.289
you like that, you've now lost your ability to

00:39:30.289 --> 00:39:33.409
defend yourself. It's an onslaught. It's coming

00:39:33.409 --> 00:39:35.969
at you from every angle. I have to put the interest

00:39:35.969 --> 00:39:38.329
of the show and the interest of the team and

00:39:38.329 --> 00:39:40.949
the interest of the network first, because my

00:39:40.949 --> 00:39:43.550
instinct is to fight, right? I want to fight

00:39:43.550 --> 00:39:45.929
every part of it, but it's not about me anymore.

00:39:46.360 --> 00:39:49.179
There are other people that are impacted. And

00:39:49.179 --> 00:39:52.440
what happens? It's the classic moment. This guy

00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:56.039
is out there saying this. I told the FBI everything.

00:39:56.579 --> 00:39:59.199
And that is not that report that they've printed.

00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:00.960
I didn't write it. I don't know where it came

00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:02.480
from. It's nothing to do with me. And it's not

00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:06.559
true. But what what happens? He then gets a death

00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:09.099
threat. He lives in Wales in these mountains.

00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:12.320
He gets a death threat. And he says he reports

00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:15.079
it to the police and he disappears. So he's gone.

00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:17.039
So maybe he got a death threat. Maybe he didn't.

00:40:17.059 --> 00:40:19.039
The police confirmed that he did report it when

00:40:19.039 --> 00:40:21.780
we called them. But now what happens to me is

00:40:21.780 --> 00:40:26.460
he's not standing by his story anymore. And I

00:40:26.460 --> 00:40:28.739
spoke to someone who's a real specialist in information

00:40:28.739 --> 00:40:31.019
warfare. And he said, oh, yeah, of course he's

00:40:31.019 --> 00:40:33.039
gone. Let me tell you what happens. They show

00:40:33.039 --> 00:40:35.159
up at your door in the middle of the night. They've

00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:37.179
got masks on probably. There's a bunch of them.

00:40:37.219 --> 00:40:39.159
One of them comes to the door. He's very friendly

00:40:39.159 --> 00:40:41.559
and smiling. And he says, basically, it's the

00:40:41.559 --> 00:40:44.480
equivalent of you're lying in the dirt. They've

00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:47.159
got their foot on your throat and they offer

00:40:47.159 --> 00:40:51.539
you a hand up. And the hand up is you take it

00:40:51.539 --> 00:40:54.380
or we're going to hurt your child or you take

00:40:54.380 --> 00:40:56.699
the hand and you're going to be OK. Because look

00:40:56.699 --> 00:40:58.699
what happened. That guy never suffered. He never

00:40:58.699 --> 00:41:02.559
struggled to get more contracting work. So you

00:41:02.559 --> 00:41:05.400
would think a guy that's really. controversial,

00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:08.099
that speaks out, that has this massive media

00:41:08.099 --> 00:41:10.460
storm around him, you would think he might struggle

00:41:10.460 --> 00:41:12.820
to get secure government contracts again. But

00:41:12.820 --> 00:41:15.619
he never did. And I don't think it's, I don't

00:41:15.619 --> 00:41:19.300
know. The truth is, I don't know. But years later,

00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:21.360
when the Atlantic came and did another hit piece

00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:24.199
on me, more than a decade later, when the reporter

00:41:24.199 --> 00:41:26.659
was thinking that she was still going to try

00:41:26.659 --> 00:41:28.280
to get me to talk and she was trying to curry

00:41:28.280 --> 00:41:32.630
favor with me, she sent me a photo. photographs

00:41:32.630 --> 00:41:35.829
of a text exchange she had with him. And he said

00:41:35.829 --> 00:41:38.789
to her in this text exchange, every word I told

00:41:38.789 --> 00:41:42.690
Lara Logan more than a decade ago was 100 % accurate.

00:41:42.829 --> 00:41:46.210
It's true. I still stand by my story today. She

00:41:46.210 --> 00:41:48.869
was attacked. It was completely unfair. It was

00:41:48.869 --> 00:41:51.769
completely dishonest. And he said, I will never,

00:41:51.809 --> 00:41:55.449
ever do another interview on this again because

00:41:55.449 --> 00:41:58.300
you people aren't interested in the truth. So

00:41:58.300 --> 00:42:01.519
what happened to you? When did things start to

00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:06.119
unravel? Did you lose your job right away? How

00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:09.260
bad did it get? Take us through that. We want

00:42:09.260 --> 00:42:10.760
to hear more about you and what happened with

00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:15.360
you. Well, I'm in an edit suite at 60 Minutes.

00:42:16.159 --> 00:42:19.099
We're just doing one incredible story after another

00:42:19.099 --> 00:42:21.119
at that point. What year was this? Yeah, what

00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:24.679
year are we talking about? 2013, I think. Okay,

00:42:24.760 --> 00:42:28.280
yeah, that's right. So I had done an amazing

00:42:28.280 --> 00:42:30.960
story on Super 6 -1, the first helicopter that

00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:34.199
crashed in Mogadishu that was about to be buried,

00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:37.420
and this American couple that pulled that out

00:42:37.420 --> 00:42:39.780
piece by piece. We were just doing amazing work.

00:42:39.980 --> 00:42:42.420
And we were in the edit suite working on a story,

00:42:42.500 --> 00:42:45.639
and the phone rang, and my boss said, I need

00:42:45.639 --> 00:42:47.519
to talk to you. Now, this had been rumbling,

00:42:47.559 --> 00:42:49.320
right? They'd been digging at the story, digging

00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:51.380
at the story. They were like, oh, 60 Minutes

00:42:51.380 --> 00:42:53.579
didn't disclose that this book that this guy

00:42:53.579 --> 00:42:56.840
wrote was published by a subsidiary of Simon

00:42:56.840 --> 00:42:59.039
& Schuster. And we hadn't done it because my

00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:01.679
boss at the time had said, who cares? He's like,

00:43:01.780 --> 00:43:04.099
that had nothing to do with, there's nothing

00:43:04.099 --> 00:43:06.320
to do with the story. We didn't even, you know.

00:43:06.889 --> 00:43:09.210
We didn't pay any attention to that. It's like,

00:43:09.230 --> 00:43:10.849
are we going to do this for every little thing?

00:43:10.969 --> 00:43:13.730
So then when they attacked us on that, he said,

00:43:13.789 --> 00:43:15.710
okay, I was wrong. We should have said it. Okay,

00:43:15.829 --> 00:43:18.849
we apologize for that. Then they had John Kerry,

00:43:18.989 --> 00:43:20.969
who was Secretary of State, they had his press

00:43:20.969 --> 00:43:23.849
person go to Scott Paley. at 60 minutes and say

00:43:23.849 --> 00:43:26.190
oh there's a problem with the Benghazi story

00:43:26.190 --> 00:43:28.909
you know and then everything was hinging on this

00:43:28.909 --> 00:43:31.969
guy because he had said I stand by my story I

00:43:31.969 --> 00:43:34.130
told the FBI everything that happened and we

00:43:34.130 --> 00:43:37.010
had all the emails that showed that the FBI had

00:43:37.010 --> 00:43:39.889
gone to his house that the CIA had gone to the

00:43:39.889 --> 00:43:41.530
same meeting and met with him that the state

00:43:41.530 --> 00:43:44.030
department had people there we also had emails

00:43:44.030 --> 00:43:46.349
that showed that there was an FBI agent who had

00:43:46.349 --> 00:43:49.050
flown out after that meeting and brought photographs

00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:52.539
of people, suspects in the attack, and had gone

00:43:52.539 --> 00:43:54.260
to meet with him and asked him to see if he could

00:43:54.260 --> 00:43:57.000
identify any of them. So we knew that the FBI

00:43:57.000 --> 00:43:59.320
treated this man as credible. We knew that he

00:43:59.320 --> 00:44:01.599
had a security clearance. He had to have a security

00:44:01.599 --> 00:44:03.320
clearance to work for the State Department. We

00:44:03.320 --> 00:44:05.039
knew that they had vetted him and cleared him.

00:44:05.219 --> 00:44:07.860
And now, what did we have? We had a situation

00:44:07.860 --> 00:44:09.460
where I turned to my boss and I said, you know,

00:44:09.579 --> 00:44:13.360
I'm a little bit worried that the FBI is going

00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:16.320
to come out and say that's not what he told us

00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:19.019
and they could be lying. And my boss, this is

00:44:19.019 --> 00:44:22.579
the time we were in. My boss looked at me incredulous

00:44:22.579 --> 00:44:26.440
and he said, are you nuts? You're saying the

00:44:26.440 --> 00:44:28.900
FBI would lie about something like this? And

00:44:28.900 --> 00:44:31.989
I'm like. Maybe? And he's like, that's ridiculous.

00:44:32.329 --> 00:44:34.610
Get out of my office kind of thing, right? He

00:44:34.610 --> 00:44:37.349
couldn't even entertain it because the idea that

00:44:37.349 --> 00:44:39.329
you could lie on that kind of scale about something

00:44:39.329 --> 00:44:42.269
of that significance was just beyond our comprehension

00:44:42.269 --> 00:44:43.969
at that point. Well, look where we are today.

00:44:44.369 --> 00:44:46.210
Nobody would have any trouble believing that

00:44:46.210 --> 00:44:47.869
the FBI could lie about something like that.

00:44:47.909 --> 00:44:51.010
But that's exactly what happened. We got a 60

00:44:51.010 --> 00:44:53.710
-minute CBS person. My boss got him, call your

00:44:53.710 --> 00:44:56.329
buddies at the FBI. His buddies at the FBI said,

00:44:56.409 --> 00:44:58.710
oh, yeah, the moment I saw that guy, I knew he

00:44:58.710 --> 00:45:01.989
was lying. Really? Except that you had agents

00:45:01.989 --> 00:45:03.849
flying out to meet with him and get him to identify

00:45:03.849 --> 00:45:05.670
suspects for you and help you with your case.

00:45:05.929 --> 00:45:08.949
But you knew he was a liar? Anyway, they wouldn't

00:45:08.949 --> 00:45:13.130
let us deal with any of that. I just got called

00:45:13.130 --> 00:45:15.449
down to my boss's office, and he said that the

00:45:15.449 --> 00:45:17.690
New York Times, you know, we have a problem.

00:45:17.809 --> 00:45:22.190
The New York Times has seen the reporting, and

00:45:22.190 --> 00:45:24.989
they say it's not true. Well, that turned out

00:45:24.989 --> 00:45:26.969
not to be true at all. What it turned out was

00:45:26.969 --> 00:45:30.369
that the New York Times... was briefed by two

00:45:30.369 --> 00:45:33.769
members of the State Department who claimed to

00:45:33.769 --> 00:45:37.329
have been briefed by two members of the FBI who

00:45:37.329 --> 00:45:41.969
said that they had seen the 302 report that had

00:45:41.969 --> 00:45:45.389
been done by the FBI. So I never got to see any

00:45:45.389 --> 00:45:48.510
of that. But that was it for CBS. So then what

00:45:48.510 --> 00:45:52.269
happened to you? They surrendered. So I took

00:45:52.269 --> 00:45:55.010
my punishment like a big girl. I did what you're

00:45:55.010 --> 00:45:57.570
supposed to do. I did the right thing. I said,

00:45:58.799 --> 00:46:02.099
Okay. What do you need me to do? I volunteered

00:46:02.099 --> 00:46:04.639
to apologize. And they said, okay, we're going

00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:07.579
to have to pull the story. You're going to have

00:46:07.579 --> 00:46:11.500
to apologize on 60 Minutes. No problem. You're

00:46:11.500 --> 00:46:14.079
going to have to go on CBS News and apologize.

00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:17.579
No problem. Happy to do that. And I did all of

00:46:17.579 --> 00:46:20.159
the above. And I stayed, you know, I stayed in

00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:22.019
the office that night until very, very, very

00:46:22.019 --> 00:46:24.559
late because we were trying to figure out how

00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:27.340
to explain this, how to say this in a way that

00:46:27.340 --> 00:46:30.539
was accurate. But why did you apologize? Because

00:46:30.539 --> 00:46:33.760
you didn't do anything wrong. Yeah, well, did

00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:37.599
you struggle with this decision? No, I didn't.

00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:42.420
I knew that I was putting a rope around my neck

00:46:42.420 --> 00:46:45.639
and hanging myself publicly. And it was very

00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:48.239
if I could have chosen, I would have wanted to

00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:50.380
know. I wanted to know the truth. And I knew

00:46:50.380 --> 00:46:53.059
we didn't know the truth. The problem that I

00:46:53.059 --> 00:46:57.000
had was I didn't have any way to get to the truth.

00:46:57.820 --> 00:47:01.239
And I had to make and there was I was out of

00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:04.500
time. I was out of options when CBS collapsed

00:47:04.500 --> 00:47:09.380
and 60 Minutes surrendered. My options were over.

00:47:09.840 --> 00:47:13.409
So as the leader of the team. As the face of

00:47:13.409 --> 00:47:16.250
the story, the only right thing for me to do

00:47:16.250 --> 00:47:18.949
was take responsibility. But they collapsed and

00:47:18.949 --> 00:47:21.309
surrendered politically. It was all political

00:47:21.309 --> 00:47:23.590
motivation. There was somebody at the top that

00:47:23.590 --> 00:47:27.269
was orchestrating it to basically make sure that

00:47:27.269 --> 00:47:29.190
Hillary didn't get hurt. It's kind of like the,

00:47:29.190 --> 00:47:33.170
you know, Hunter Biden. Maybe alongside you,

00:47:33.230 --> 00:47:37.889
maybe all around you. And, you know, this is

00:47:37.889 --> 00:47:40.110
the problem I had, though. I didn't know the

00:47:40.110 --> 00:47:43.559
truth anymore. because this guy was gone and

00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:46.199
we couldn't get you so there were he said that

00:47:46.199 --> 00:47:47.840
when he went there that second time he had two

00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:50.699
libyans with him i wanted to get to those guys

00:47:50.699 --> 00:47:53.719
but 60 minutes didn't allow me to go to libya

00:47:53.719 --> 00:47:55.780
during the reporting of the story so we had to

00:47:55.780 --> 00:47:58.380
use someone else to go and they did a very good

00:47:58.380 --> 00:48:00.480
job for us on the ground documenting everything

00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:03.300
with gps coordinates and everything else you

00:48:03.300 --> 00:48:06.059
know but i wasn't able to talk to those two libyans

00:48:06.059 --> 00:48:09.960
and it was so dangerous in Benghazi. Benghazi

00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:12.880
was controlled by Al -Qaeda at that time. Remember,

00:48:13.039 --> 00:48:15.719
it wasn't very long after Benghazi happened that

00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:18.719
the U .S. embassy was overrun in Tripoli, and

00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:21.840
the U .S. fled. We didn't even have an embassy.

00:48:22.260 --> 00:48:24.880
So this is a time where, you know, people were

00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:28.500
terrified, and rightly so, because the terrorists

00:48:28.500 --> 00:48:32.340
were running Libya. So when you apologize, do

00:48:32.340 --> 00:48:35.199
you still... were standing in her truth, would

00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:37.260
you say? Because you were not able to double

00:48:37.260 --> 00:48:40.980
confirm? Her boss. Her boss, everybody collapsed

00:48:40.980 --> 00:48:43.280
around her, so they weren't even giving her an

00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:46.139
opportunity to do what she needed to do, right?

00:48:46.539 --> 00:48:49.860
And the words were carefully chosen. We made

00:48:49.860 --> 00:48:53.840
a mistake. So that, for me, how did I reconcile

00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:56.980
that with my own integrity? Well, I did make

00:48:56.980 --> 00:48:58.500
a mistake. That's what I'm asking, basically.

00:48:58.519 --> 00:49:00.559
There were mistakes I made. Now, I didn't believe

00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:02.420
the mistakes that I made were the ones that were

00:49:02.420 --> 00:49:05.539
being... You know, I was laughed at when I said,

00:49:05.579 --> 00:49:08.559
well, we had an NDA. We vetted everything we

00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:10.079
could with the State Department. We literally

00:49:10.079 --> 00:49:13.760
took, when he said on the north wall, pointing

00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:16.179
at this degree on this side next to this part

00:49:16.179 --> 00:49:18.000
of the embassy, the security camera went out

00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:20.440
in April, and then it took me three and a half

00:49:20.440 --> 00:49:22.559
months to get it fixed. Like, we match details

00:49:22.559 --> 00:49:26.119
like that with the State Department's own reporting,

00:49:26.280 --> 00:49:30.000
okay? We went, we did things that were above

00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:34.610
and beyond. what 99 % of reporters do every single

00:49:34.610 --> 00:49:37.510
day. There's not a chance in hell that they come

00:49:37.510 --> 00:49:40.429
close. And we were accused of sloppy journalism.

00:49:40.710 --> 00:49:43.869
But the only thing that we, because we didn't

00:49:43.869 --> 00:49:47.190
take his story that night and violate the NDA

00:49:47.190 --> 00:49:49.969
and get people to comment on it. And remember,

00:49:50.050 --> 00:49:52.690
this was all happening in an environment where

00:49:52.690 --> 00:49:55.210
I literally had people that I had known for years

00:49:55.210 --> 00:49:58.150
at Special Operations Command at SOCOM in Tampa

00:49:58.150 --> 00:50:01.780
that wouldn't even talk to me. from work and

00:50:01.780 --> 00:50:04.260
literally we're going to the neighbor's house

00:50:04.260 --> 00:50:08.139
to call me from someone else's phone on the weekend

00:50:08.139 --> 00:50:11.460
to say never put the word Benghazi in an email

00:50:11.460 --> 00:50:14.980
to me again because if it is known that I am

00:50:14.980 --> 00:50:18.050
communicating with any reporter about this I

00:50:18.050 --> 00:50:21.409
will lose my job. I mean, they did not want the

00:50:21.409 --> 00:50:24.030
truth to get out. And it's very easy, of course,

00:50:24.050 --> 00:50:25.829
in hindsight, all those, you know, all those

00:50:25.829 --> 00:50:27.210
reporters who are quarterbacking everything.

00:50:27.329 --> 00:50:29.889
So when this guy said in the NDA, hey, listen,

00:50:30.030 --> 00:50:32.610
I need my story to be protected because if they

00:50:32.610 --> 00:50:35.250
find out they're going to come after me, you

00:50:35.250 --> 00:50:37.789
know, and I could be killed. OK, so we signed

00:50:37.789 --> 00:50:40.369
the NDA. But everyone, you know, at 60 Minutes,

00:50:40.369 --> 00:50:42.349
they were like, well, the NDA doesn't mean anything.

00:50:42.550 --> 00:50:46.269
And my producer and I are like, what? It's a

00:50:46.269 --> 00:50:48.730
legal document. We honored it. You know, but

00:50:48.730 --> 00:50:52.230
apparently honor was not important to most people

00:50:52.230 --> 00:50:53.949
there. Because they were like, oh, you don't

00:50:53.949 --> 00:50:56.650
have to honor that. What? So this public apology

00:50:56.650 --> 00:50:59.210
was made, and then what happened to your career?

00:50:59.329 --> 00:51:03.769
What happened from there? Well, I do want to

00:51:03.769 --> 00:51:06.789
say that making that apology was obviously one

00:51:06.789 --> 00:51:08.590
of the hardest things I've ever had to do in

00:51:08.590 --> 00:51:12.190
my life. And I didn't get any sleep. And I had

00:51:12.190 --> 00:51:15.210
a tiny little room at this hotel that was like

00:51:15.210 --> 00:51:17.610
a broom closet because we booked the room late.

00:51:17.670 --> 00:51:19.309
I wasn't supposed to be there that night. And

00:51:19.309 --> 00:51:21.389
it was like 130 degrees in there because it was

00:51:21.389 --> 00:51:25.650
next to the furnace for this hotel. And so I

00:51:25.650 --> 00:51:28.309
had a pounding headache. It was one of the worst

00:51:28.309 --> 00:51:32.449
days of my life. And I had to go out there and

00:51:32.449 --> 00:51:34.670
do that. And be grilled, by the way, by people

00:51:34.670 --> 00:51:38.550
who I knew never do a modicum of the reporting.

00:51:39.130 --> 00:51:42.170
that we did. And I had to eat crow publicly.

00:51:42.469 --> 00:51:44.949
So nationwide. So it was a nationwide humiliation

00:51:44.949 --> 00:51:48.150
without a doubt. And I had to record the 60 Minutes

00:51:48.150 --> 00:51:50.829
studio where I made a statement that we had withdrawn

00:51:50.829 --> 00:51:53.329
the story because someone had lied to us. And

00:51:53.329 --> 00:51:55.409
now it was possible that he had lied to us. I

00:51:55.409 --> 00:51:58.010
didn't know for sure that that wasn't true. So

00:51:58.010 --> 00:52:00.530
I was careful about the language that I agreed

00:52:00.530 --> 00:52:02.489
to. But certainly the impression that people

00:52:02.489 --> 00:52:04.690
had was that I believed he was lying to us. And

00:52:04.690 --> 00:52:06.710
I didn't believe that, but I couldn't say it.

00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:09.099
So I had to go home to D .C. that night. Les

00:52:09.099 --> 00:52:13.820
Moonves was then CEO of CBS and Viacom. And he

00:52:13.820 --> 00:52:16.099
called me and told me, you know, Lara, we're

00:52:16.099 --> 00:52:18.619
a family. You've done so much for this company.

00:52:18.840 --> 00:52:22.079
We love you. Your work is, you know, is second

00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:25.780
to none. And we stand by you. And so, you know,

00:52:25.820 --> 00:52:28.340
I felt uneasy, of course. I'd never been in a

00:52:28.340 --> 00:52:32.019
situation like this. But I had. I had a lot of

00:52:32.019 --> 00:52:34.800
faith in my bosses at 60 Minutes. When we worked

00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:36.480
there, we worked really hard and we knew each

00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:38.400
other really well. I'd been, remember, I'd been

00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:40.659
gang raped and sodomized and beaten almost to

00:52:40.659 --> 00:52:43.840
death in Egypt. I had been blown up in Afghanistan

00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:46.860
multiple, multiple times. I'd been in ambushes

00:52:46.860 --> 00:52:49.679
with people shot in front of me. I had lived,

00:52:49.860 --> 00:52:52.380
I mean, I was eight and a half months pregnant

00:52:52.380 --> 00:52:56.139
walking on operations in sewage canals, sewage

00:52:56.139 --> 00:52:58.800
up to here in Helmand Province in southern Afghanistan.

00:52:59.469 --> 00:53:03.409
You know, I had been rocketed and shot at and

00:53:03.409 --> 00:53:06.369
I'd been through extreme situations. And my 60

00:53:06.369 --> 00:53:10.449
Minutes and CBS, my team were like, I mean, I

00:53:10.449 --> 00:53:12.639
spent more time with them than my family. Right.

00:53:12.860 --> 00:53:15.780
And we did we pulled off the extraordinary. I

00:53:15.780 --> 00:53:18.860
flew to Afghanistan and pulled off an exclusive

00:53:18.860 --> 00:53:20.840
interview with the president and put that together

00:53:20.840 --> 00:53:23.519
within like days back and forth and headline.

00:53:23.679 --> 00:53:26.480
So when you work like that, you know, you have

00:53:26.480 --> 00:53:28.840
bonds that are that kind of it's kind of like

00:53:28.840 --> 00:53:32.320
a band of brothers is how it feels. And so. You

00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:34.099
know, I didn't want to lose that. I was afraid

00:53:34.099 --> 00:53:36.900
to lose my job. I had the only job I ever really

00:53:36.900 --> 00:53:39.440
wanted. It was perfect for me because you had

00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:42.900
time to learn the truth before you went out there

00:53:42.900 --> 00:53:45.760
and you had time to do something meaningful.

00:53:46.039 --> 00:53:48.639
So I never wanted another job. I never wanted

00:53:48.639 --> 00:53:51.599
to anchor a show. And I had to go home in disgrace

00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:57.199
and take abuse. and read one report after another,

00:53:57.300 --> 00:53:59.539
that was a complete lie. So just think about

00:53:59.539 --> 00:54:02.219
this. All of these journalists attacking me for

00:54:02.219 --> 00:54:05.559
shoddy journalism are all writing things about

00:54:05.559 --> 00:54:11.059
the story that are completely 100 % false. The

00:54:11.059 --> 00:54:13.619
irony. Can you imagine the irony of that? And

00:54:13.619 --> 00:54:16.739
then get this. The New York Times does a piece,

00:54:16.940 --> 00:54:20.920
a glowing piece. elevating David Brock from Media

00:54:20.920 --> 00:54:24.079
Matters for America and his great success in

00:54:24.079 --> 00:54:27.739
taking down Lara Logan, which he says is our

00:54:27.739 --> 00:54:30.000
greatest success to date. So an organization

00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:33.659
that claims to be about honesty in the media

00:54:33.659 --> 00:54:38.369
and guarding against bias in the media. He details

00:54:38.369 --> 00:54:41.909
how he ran an operation where his staff came

00:54:41.909 --> 00:54:43.869
in in the early hours of the morning, and they

00:54:43.869 --> 00:54:46.929
worked all day, and he had teams of people dedicated

00:54:46.929 --> 00:54:51.650
to taking me out. So he was ecstatic. But what

00:54:51.650 --> 00:54:53.769
happened to me that Friday afternoon, after I

00:54:53.769 --> 00:54:55.630
did all the apologies, I did the news in the

00:54:55.630 --> 00:54:57.369
morning, and I did the studio in the afternoon,

00:54:57.550 --> 00:55:01.349
and then I'm going to go back to D .C. Well,

00:55:01.389 --> 00:55:03.510
when I come up, I have to be up on Monday morning,

00:55:03.610 --> 00:55:06.690
dreading it. So I go up on Monday morning. And

00:55:06.690 --> 00:55:11.210
my boss calls me into his office, and he says

00:55:11.210 --> 00:55:17.170
to me, I'm really sorry, but I have to do something,

00:55:17.269 --> 00:55:19.230
because they're baying for blood, basically,

00:55:19.349 --> 00:55:21.369
and if I don't do something, they're never going

00:55:21.369 --> 00:55:24.710
to stop. That's the political pressure. They

00:55:24.710 --> 00:55:27.429
had no reason to fire me, because I hadn't done

00:55:27.429 --> 00:55:30.309
anything wrong. They had no grounds to fire me.

00:55:30.610 --> 00:55:32.829
So what they did is, he said, I have to put you

00:55:32.829 --> 00:55:37.909
on leave. And he said, and I looked at him, it

00:55:37.909 --> 00:55:40.889
was very hard to speak in that moment, but I

00:55:40.889 --> 00:55:44.690
said, can it just be me? Because I didn't want

00:55:44.690 --> 00:55:46.989
it to be my producer, who's an extraordinary,

00:55:47.210 --> 00:55:52.070
amazing man, incredible producer, and I just,

00:55:52.170 --> 00:55:54.250
I didn't want him to have to go through that.

00:55:55.349 --> 00:56:00.599
And my boss swallowed repeatedly. And he looked

00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:02.780
out the window because he's got a window. He

00:56:02.780 --> 00:56:05.199
had a corner office overlooking the Hudson River.

00:56:05.500 --> 00:56:07.599
And he couldn't speak. And when he looked back,

00:56:07.739 --> 00:56:12.199
he had tears rolling down his face. And he said,

00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:16.880
I knew you would say that. And he said, I got

00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:19.500
to tell you, you're the best person on this floor.

00:56:20.039 --> 00:56:23.599
And at 60 minutes, you know. that's a big deal

00:56:23.599 --> 00:56:26.300
because compliments are short, especially I was

00:56:26.300 --> 00:56:28.420
last in the pecking line, you know, behind a

00:56:28.420 --> 00:56:30.880
lot of great people. And I was very much aware

00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:33.880
of that. And I didn't mind earning my place.

00:56:34.539 --> 00:56:38.239
And that was one of the worst moments. And so

00:56:38.239 --> 00:56:40.539
there I went on leave, but I was still paid,

00:56:40.559 --> 00:56:43.039
thank goodness, because I had a family to take

00:56:43.039 --> 00:56:45.940
care of and young kids. But what happened over

00:56:45.940 --> 00:56:48.039
time, so this is what they do, and this is very

00:56:48.039 --> 00:56:50.639
helpful for your audience, right? So there's

00:56:50.639 --> 00:56:53.500
the initial shock attack where they come at you

00:56:53.500 --> 00:56:56.440
from every angle. Then this one's piling on,

00:56:56.500 --> 00:56:58.599
this one's piling on, that one's piling on. You're

00:56:58.599 --> 00:57:00.340
now answering allegations that are completely

00:57:00.340 --> 00:57:02.260
fabricated, that have nothing to do with the

00:57:02.260 --> 00:57:04.440
real issue. And one of the things that drove

00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:08.559
them nuts was that I said Al -Qaeda and I didn't

00:57:08.559 --> 00:57:11.260
call it Ansar al -Sharia Libya, which is what

00:57:11.260 --> 00:57:13.300
everyone else said. And that drove them nuts

00:57:13.300 --> 00:57:14.960
because they were pushing a false narrative that

00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:17.340
Al -Qaeda was dead and buried. But what Al -Qaeda

00:57:17.340 --> 00:57:21.309
did. was they rebranded. So when you have sanctions

00:57:21.309 --> 00:57:23.530
against you, you can't operate, right? You're

00:57:23.530 --> 00:57:25.969
a known terrorist organization. So al -Qaeda

00:57:25.969 --> 00:57:29.389
created branches, Ansar al -Sharia Tunisia, Ansar

00:57:29.389 --> 00:57:32.329
al -Sharia Libya, Turkey, so on and so on. And

00:57:32.329 --> 00:57:34.769
now they operate. But this was a front for al

00:57:34.769 --> 00:57:37.449
-Qaeda. And we knew that from our extensive reporting.

00:57:37.710 --> 00:57:39.969
So that drove them nuts. So then they did stories

00:57:39.969 --> 00:57:42.250
saying that, you know, we lied and said it was

00:57:42.250 --> 00:57:44.190
al -Qaeda and Ansar al -Sharia has got nothing

00:57:44.190 --> 00:57:47.489
to do with al -Qaeda. We named Sofiane Benkoumou.

00:57:47.789 --> 00:57:49.489
the man who was actually responsible for the

00:57:49.489 --> 00:57:51.869
attack. Guess what? The New York Times had been

00:57:51.869 --> 00:57:54.809
reporting that this other idiot, who was a fake

00:57:54.809 --> 00:57:57.710
puppet that they put up as the front, that he

00:57:57.710 --> 00:57:59.650
was responsible. So they did a whole bunch of

00:57:59.650 --> 00:58:01.889
hit pieces about how we got that wrong. Two years

00:58:01.889 --> 00:58:05.769
later, what happens? The Obama Treasury indicts

00:58:05.769 --> 00:58:08.449
Soufiane Benkoumou for the Benghazi attack and

00:58:08.449 --> 00:58:10.849
sanctions him for being the ringleader of the

00:58:10.849 --> 00:58:13.570
Benghazi attack. So we were right about everything.

00:58:14.059 --> 00:58:16.920
And they couldn't bear it. So what did they do?

00:58:17.000 --> 00:58:19.400
They do that shock attack. They pile on because

00:58:19.400 --> 00:58:23.460
now the weight of credibility is with them. So

00:58:23.460 --> 00:58:25.659
all the things about your reporting that they

00:58:25.659 --> 00:58:28.599
don't want people to know, they they target that

00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:32.300
and they throw it out there with no backing whatsoever.

00:58:32.420 --> 00:58:35.320
And no one cares. You're like, I'm like a piece

00:58:35.320 --> 00:58:38.989
of meat. And I'm at a feeding frenzy. And I got

00:58:38.989 --> 00:58:41.610
great whites come and taking a chunk. And the

00:58:41.610 --> 00:58:43.469
more sharks smell blood in the water, they're

00:58:43.469 --> 00:58:45.710
coming for more and more and more. And that's

00:58:45.710 --> 00:58:47.929
what it was like. I had people in front of my

00:58:47.929 --> 00:58:49.829
house. I had people at the back of, I mean, reporters,

00:58:49.989 --> 00:58:52.389
right? I had everybody coming at me. And now

00:58:52.389 --> 00:58:55.550
every person that has always hated you because

00:58:55.550 --> 00:58:58.449
you were successful and they weren't, or you

00:58:58.449 --> 00:59:01.130
were, you know, better than them, whatever it

00:59:01.130 --> 00:59:02.750
happened to be, now they've got their chance.

00:59:03.190 --> 00:59:06.530
And they're going to come, boy. And they don't

00:59:06.530 --> 00:59:09.429
hold back. And they get to hide behind anonymity.

00:59:09.510 --> 00:59:12.389
And what they do, so now I'm on leave and my

00:59:12.389 --> 00:59:14.130
boss at the Christmas party, because this happened

00:59:14.130 --> 00:59:16.349
around Halloween, he tells everyone I'm going

00:59:16.349 --> 00:59:22.389
to be back soon. Well, they leaked that. So then

00:59:22.389 --> 00:59:25.489
what happens? He gets attacked for saying that.

00:59:25.610 --> 00:59:29.010
So now he can't bring me back soon, right? But

00:59:29.010 --> 00:59:31.610
then this is the most important part for people

00:59:31.610 --> 00:59:34.230
to understand. When the initial attack fails,

00:59:34.909 --> 00:59:38.650
What they do is a long form story. So it'll be

00:59:38.650 --> 00:59:41.710
the New York Magazine or it'll be Atlantic Magazine.

00:59:41.750 --> 00:59:44.309
It'll be somebody like that or Vanity Fair. And

00:59:44.309 --> 00:59:48.230
they will do a much more strategic attack. So

00:59:48.230 --> 00:59:50.070
they will take a look at what they did, what

00:59:50.070 --> 00:59:52.510
worked, what didn't work, and they will look

00:59:52.510 --> 00:59:55.989
for vulnerabilities. So this article was, you

00:59:55.989 --> 00:59:57.829
know, I was then not allowed to come back to

00:59:57.829 --> 01:00:00.269
work until this article was out, which was weird,

01:00:00.389 --> 01:00:03.340
which tells you that people within CBS. were

01:00:03.340 --> 01:00:06.619
collaborating with that because they knew that

01:00:06.619 --> 01:00:09.199
this article was going to prevent me from ever

01:00:09.199 --> 01:00:12.820
coming back to CBS. And there was actually a

01:00:12.820 --> 01:00:15.460
woman, a female producer was a source for that

01:00:15.460 --> 01:00:19.519
article who told someone that I know that after

01:00:19.519 --> 01:00:22.099
this article comes out, her CBS career will be

01:00:22.099 --> 01:00:24.400
over and she will never work again. So this is

01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:26.260
what I'm hearing from all these people, right?

01:00:26.480 --> 01:00:29.880
When the article comes out on the surface, it

01:00:29.880 --> 01:00:31.739
doesn't look so bad. It's called Benghazi and

01:00:31.739 --> 01:00:34.300
the Bombshell. Yes, it's full of nonsense about

01:00:34.300 --> 01:00:39.539
me, complete lies, but I'm not the only person

01:00:39.539 --> 01:00:42.539
in the article. What it did was it did two things.

01:00:42.780 --> 01:00:46.900
Number one, it dragged in Les Moonves. And anyone

01:00:46.900 --> 01:00:49.739
who worked at CBS knew that Les Moonves could

01:00:49.739 --> 01:00:54.030
not bear bad publicity. He would shut down the

01:00:54.030 --> 01:00:57.010
press office for months at a time around any

01:00:57.010 --> 01:00:59.989
public events, like shareholder events or affiliate

01:00:59.989 --> 01:01:02.650
conferences or whatever, because he couldn't

01:01:02.650 --> 01:01:05.849
bear it. And so what did they do? They dragged

01:01:05.849 --> 01:01:09.190
Les Moonves into the Benghazi affair. They said

01:01:09.190 --> 01:01:12.210
that I would say things to people like... Oh,

01:01:12.210 --> 01:01:14.070
if you don't let me do this, I'm going to make

01:01:14.070 --> 01:01:16.289
one call to Les Moonves and end your career.

01:01:16.789 --> 01:01:19.210
Complete and utter nonsense. I spoke to Les Moonves

01:01:19.210 --> 01:01:23.449
maybe five times in 16 years at CBS. I had nothing

01:01:23.449 --> 01:01:25.610
really to say to him other than pleasantries.

01:01:25.670 --> 01:01:28.329
I didn't know the man. I would never have called

01:01:28.329 --> 01:01:31.449
him about anything. So they just fabricated this

01:01:31.449 --> 01:01:34.050
stuff, but they did it to make Les Moonves look

01:01:34.050 --> 01:01:37.289
bad. And why? Because Les Moonves would put pressure

01:01:37.289 --> 01:01:40.269
on my boss to get rid of the problem. And then

01:01:40.269 --> 01:01:42.659
what did they do to my boss? They made him sound

01:01:42.659 --> 01:01:45.820
like a lovestruck puppy. And then my boss spent

01:01:45.820 --> 01:01:48.460
the rest of the time proving that he wasn't a

01:01:48.460 --> 01:01:49.400
lovestruck puppy. And then it came over for you.

01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:52.099
So then you got fired? No, they couldn't fire

01:01:52.099 --> 01:01:55.860
me. They didn't have ground. So what, you stayed

01:01:55.860 --> 01:01:59.079
on leave for a long time? When they brought me

01:01:59.079 --> 01:02:02.659
back, they tortured me. They made me go to every

01:02:02.659 --> 01:02:06.480
show at the news division and do work for them.

01:02:06.679 --> 01:02:08.980
So I had to meet with the morning show producers,

01:02:09.059 --> 01:02:11.039
and I had to do stories for them, which I did.

01:02:11.519 --> 01:02:13.699
Because CBS 60 Minutes was now in the summer

01:02:13.699 --> 01:02:15.719
break. And so now they said, well, you got to

01:02:15.719 --> 01:02:17.400
get back out there on these other shows before,

01:02:17.500 --> 01:02:19.960
you know, the new season starts. So I did all

01:02:19.960 --> 01:02:22.360
of that. I took my punishment. I made the most

01:02:22.360 --> 01:02:24.440
of it. And I actually worked with great people.

01:02:24.539 --> 01:02:26.360
And I did some, I did Shimon Perry's interview.

01:02:26.519 --> 01:02:28.920
I did a lot of big things. As usual, I did what

01:02:28.920 --> 01:02:32.420
I did. I did my job. And they didn't expect that.

01:02:32.639 --> 01:02:35.159
And then I came back to 60 Minutes. And when

01:02:35.159 --> 01:02:38.780
that contract was up, they tried to, basically,

01:02:38.980 --> 01:02:44.099
they treated me like I was, They treated, I mean,

01:02:44.099 --> 01:02:48.679
the bottom person at CBS was given more, was

01:02:48.679 --> 01:02:52.780
treated with more respect and kindness and regard

01:02:52.780 --> 01:02:56.000
than I was. It was an extremely stressful situation.

01:02:56.219 --> 01:02:58.460
And my agent kept saying to me, why are you doing

01:02:58.460 --> 01:02:59.900
this? And I'm like, I'm not going to make it

01:02:59.900 --> 01:03:01.420
easy for them. I know what they're trying to

01:03:01.420 --> 01:03:03.559
do. They're trying to get me to quit because

01:03:03.559 --> 01:03:06.039
they don't have grounds to fire me. And I'm not

01:03:06.039 --> 01:03:08.909
going to do that. And then when it came up. So

01:03:08.909 --> 01:03:11.590
I ended up being in hospital six times in eight

01:03:11.590 --> 01:03:14.369
months. I had a hysterectomy that wouldn't heal.

01:03:15.070 --> 01:03:19.550
I had massive surgeries. And I was in a really

01:03:19.550 --> 01:03:21.989
bad way. The doctors were worried that I was

01:03:21.989 --> 01:03:26.190
going to die. And my first story back at 60 Minutes,

01:03:26.250 --> 01:03:28.349
I went to Liberia at the height of the Ebola

01:03:28.349 --> 01:03:32.110
epidemic to do that story. And the day before

01:03:32.110 --> 01:03:34.909
I left, I had to go. to the doctor's office and

01:03:34.909 --> 01:03:37.670
have a scan to make sure that my sutures were

01:03:37.670 --> 01:03:41.489
still intact so that I didn't die on that journey.

01:03:41.710 --> 01:03:44.230
And that was one of the most dangerous stories

01:03:44.230 --> 01:03:48.150
I have ever, ever done. But I did it anyway.

01:03:48.230 --> 01:03:50.210
Only now I was doing it without the backing and

01:03:50.210 --> 01:03:52.909
support of the people I worked for. So that made

01:03:52.909 --> 01:03:56.489
it very hard. And and I realized at a certain

01:03:56.489 --> 01:03:59.179
point. I'm going to die. That's what the doctors

01:03:59.179 --> 01:04:01.039
told me. You're going to die if you keep doing

01:04:01.039 --> 01:04:04.679
this. So I said to my agent, tell CBS, I want

01:04:04.679 --> 01:04:06.659
to move back to Texas where my husband is from.

01:04:07.300 --> 01:04:10.159
And I want to go from full time. I'll be a part

01:04:10.159 --> 01:04:12.579
time correspondent. Give them a deal. And they

01:04:12.579 --> 01:04:15.760
took that deal. So my next contract was to be.

01:04:16.259 --> 01:04:18.619
And my boss said to me, you know, hopefully you'll

01:04:18.619 --> 01:04:20.159
be able to come back. Your kids will be a little

01:04:20.159 --> 01:04:22.179
bigger. You can be, you know, the mom you want

01:04:22.179 --> 01:04:23.739
to be and all the rest of it. And I was like,

01:04:23.820 --> 01:04:27.159
yes, absolutely. And, of course, when I got to

01:04:27.159 --> 01:04:29.980
the end of that contract three years later, that

01:04:29.980 --> 01:04:32.880
was when David Rhodes was like, not under any

01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:37.280
circumstances in hell would he renew my contract.

01:04:37.559 --> 01:04:40.440
So I was never fired, but I was effectively fired.

01:04:42.119 --> 01:04:44.260
How low did it get for you? What was your lowest

01:04:44.260 --> 01:04:49.230
point? Was it emotional? Was it physical? Maybe

01:04:49.230 --> 01:04:53.989
you could share with us. Financial? Well, I had

01:04:53.989 --> 01:04:59.010
significant injuries from being attacked while

01:04:59.010 --> 01:05:01.809
on assignment for 60 minutes in Egypt, internal

01:05:01.809 --> 01:05:06.690
injuries, and I lived with a lot of pain. So

01:05:06.690 --> 01:05:09.250
there were nights, you know, when it was late

01:05:09.250 --> 01:05:11.010
at night and there wasn't anyone else around

01:05:11.010 --> 01:05:13.250
except my team, like sometimes I would crawl

01:05:13.250 --> 01:05:15.699
to the bathroom because I couldn't walk. And

01:05:15.699 --> 01:05:19.360
I think the hardest part for me was realizing

01:05:19.360 --> 01:05:21.599
that when that happened, like just over there

01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:23.860
right now in my studio, I have a massive box

01:05:23.860 --> 01:05:27.320
full of thousands upon thousands of letters that

01:05:27.320 --> 01:05:28.980
were written to me when that attack happened.

01:05:29.420 --> 01:05:34.619
And what I realized was that none of that meant

01:05:34.619 --> 01:05:37.380
anything. You know, CBS had said that they would

01:05:37.380 --> 01:05:39.519
stand by me. They weren't going to stand by me.

01:05:39.840 --> 01:05:45.760
I was just tossed out like trash. And I think,

01:05:45.760 --> 01:05:48.820
honestly, the most difficult part was letting

01:05:48.820 --> 01:05:50.780
go. I'm sorry, by the way, that you had to experience

01:05:50.780 --> 01:05:54.099
that. Thank you. It's okay. I mean, you know,

01:05:54.119 --> 01:05:57.860
I got to live. My children were one and two at

01:05:57.860 --> 01:05:59.780
the time. No, they were actually, my daughter

01:05:59.780 --> 01:06:02.980
was 10 months old, and my son was one. And then

01:06:02.980 --> 01:06:05.579
when I got cancer the following year, my son

01:06:05.579 --> 01:06:08.260
was two and my daughter was one. And then the

01:06:08.260 --> 01:06:09.880
following year, Benghazi happened. So it had

01:06:09.880 --> 01:06:14.159
been, my mother died. Then I was gang raped and

01:06:14.159 --> 01:06:17.079
almost killed. Then I got cancer. And then Benghazi

01:06:17.079 --> 01:06:21.179
hit. So it was pretty intense. But just the hardest

01:06:21.179 --> 01:06:23.980
part was that I was still struggling physically

01:06:23.980 --> 01:06:31.360
with significant issues. And I was treated really

01:06:31.360 --> 01:06:35.659
badly. I mean, it was pure torture on a daily

01:06:35.659 --> 01:06:38.820
basis. And so that, I think, was the lowest part.

01:06:39.130 --> 01:06:41.409
was just coming to terms with and accepting that

01:06:41.409 --> 01:06:44.489
these great people that I worked alongside with,

01:06:44.630 --> 01:06:48.090
who meant so much to me, that I would never work

01:06:48.090 --> 01:06:52.650
with them again. And then, of course, once you're

01:06:52.650 --> 01:06:54.889
targeted like that, no one will touch you. They

01:06:54.889 --> 01:06:56.829
all turn their back on you, though, right? At

01:06:56.829 --> 01:06:59.150
the end, your boss turned your back on all your

01:06:59.150 --> 01:07:04.369
coworkers. Not all. I still stayed in touch with

01:07:04.369 --> 01:07:07.239
my boss. And obviously it affected their relationship.

01:07:07.420 --> 01:07:09.960
And then, you know, and then he was forced out

01:07:09.960 --> 01:07:14.519
not that long afterwards. And I think it probably

01:07:14.519 --> 01:07:17.659
felt for him like, you know, the Benghazi thing

01:07:17.659 --> 01:07:20.139
opened the door and made him vulnerable and that,

01:07:20.219 --> 01:07:22.139
you know, maybe contributed to what they were

01:07:22.139 --> 01:07:24.539
able to do. Because my boss was an incredible

01:07:24.539 --> 01:07:29.420
journalist and a great man. And, you know, it

01:07:29.420 --> 01:07:34.969
hurt because he was a ruthless mentor. you know,

01:07:34.969 --> 01:07:38.650
an incredible mentor. And I loved him and his

01:07:38.650 --> 01:07:41.329
wife and his family. I mean, when you work like

01:07:41.329 --> 01:07:44.070
that and you work 18 hour days and, you know,

01:07:44.090 --> 01:07:46.769
you go through these things together. I mean,

01:07:46.809 --> 01:07:49.170
you imagine it's like I had to the night that

01:07:49.170 --> 01:07:52.369
I was gang raped and I was I'm sitting there

01:07:52.369 --> 01:07:55.849
in my hotel room and I'm, you know, somewhat

01:07:55.849 --> 01:07:59.650
hysterical, almost like a rabbit animal at times.

01:08:00.190 --> 01:08:04.559
And. And I had to call my husband and tell him

01:08:04.559 --> 01:08:06.739
what happened to me, what they did to me. And

01:08:06.739 --> 01:08:08.619
I said to him, look, I called my husband and

01:08:08.619 --> 01:08:11.559
I said, look, I need you to do two things. One,

01:08:11.760 --> 01:08:14.079
listen to me. I'm going to tell you what they

01:08:14.079 --> 01:08:16.939
did to me. And two, I need you to pick up the

01:08:16.939 --> 01:08:20.699
phone and call Jeff Vega and tell him. Because

01:08:20.699 --> 01:08:23.279
I needed my boss to understand. But I couldn't

01:08:23.279 --> 01:08:26.380
say those words to him. I couldn't speak those

01:08:26.380 --> 01:08:29.779
words to him. And my husband did that for me.

01:08:31.180 --> 01:08:35.579
My boss was amazing. He was, you know, and he

01:08:35.579 --> 01:08:37.800
flew down and he came to see me. And, you know,

01:08:37.819 --> 01:08:40.819
we went through a lot together. You know, when

01:08:40.819 --> 01:08:43.680
you're in sewage up to your neck at four and

01:08:43.680 --> 01:08:46.239
a half months pregnant or you're climbing mountains

01:08:46.239 --> 01:08:49.319
on counterterrorism operations at eight and a

01:08:49.319 --> 01:08:52.060
half months pregnant, you know, I mean, how many

01:08:52.060 --> 01:08:54.340
bosses in the world would let you do that? Body

01:08:54.340 --> 01:08:56.500
armor around my waist, you know, pack on my back,

01:08:56.619 --> 01:08:59.310
literally. Well, on my butt half the time, I

01:08:59.310 --> 01:09:01.710
will admit. I did spend a lot of time in those

01:09:01.710 --> 01:09:05.529
mountains sliding. But, you know, he had real

01:09:05.529 --> 01:09:08.109
respect for me, and I had real respect for him.

01:09:08.189 --> 01:09:10.989
They tore all those relationships apart, and

01:09:10.989 --> 01:09:14.670
60 Minutes never recovered. They never, ever,

01:09:14.770 --> 01:09:19.289
ever got back their moral courage. To this day,

01:09:19.430 --> 01:09:20.810
really. To this day. They're just going to the

01:09:20.810 --> 01:09:24.659
ringer at this very moment, even. They basically

01:09:24.659 --> 01:09:27.840
allowed themselves to be completely controlled

01:09:27.840 --> 01:09:33.579
for whatever political nonsense. And ever since

01:09:33.579 --> 01:09:36.199
then, everybody else probably watched that thinking

01:09:36.199 --> 01:09:38.399
if they can do that to her, they'll do it to

01:09:38.399 --> 01:09:40.260
us. That's right. So then you had a bunch of

01:09:40.260 --> 01:09:42.659
pansies that now everybody just shuts their mouth

01:09:42.659 --> 01:09:45.159
and does what they're told. And now nobody trusts

01:09:45.159 --> 01:09:47.279
60 Minutes. I mean, I never watch. I used to

01:09:47.279 --> 01:09:50.180
watch 60 Minutes all the time. I never watch

01:09:50.180 --> 01:09:52.829
it anymore. In fact, I can't stand it. because

01:09:52.829 --> 01:09:55.890
now I know what they really are. But when you

01:09:55.890 --> 01:09:58.649
were there, it represented something different.

01:09:59.090 --> 01:10:03.329
It had a soul. It had at least... Courage. You

01:10:03.329 --> 01:10:06.609
were literally on the front lines of war correspondent.

01:10:06.649 --> 01:10:09.470
You represented courage. And I remember when

01:10:09.470 --> 01:10:12.109
you came out with what had happened to you, and

01:10:12.109 --> 01:10:15.789
I was crying just watching. I'm like, as a woman,

01:10:15.949 --> 01:10:19.920
I'm like, this lady, like... And she has the

01:10:19.920 --> 01:10:22.739
courage to share it with everybody. And she's

01:10:22.739 --> 01:10:25.439
still out there fighting and doing everything

01:10:25.439 --> 01:10:28.199
that it takes. Unfortunately, they don't make

01:10:28.199 --> 01:10:31.119
journalists like you anymore. I wish they do,

01:10:31.260 --> 01:10:35.039
and I wish that there were more journalists that

01:10:35.039 --> 01:10:37.960
would actually speak up and fight for the truth

01:10:37.960 --> 01:10:40.239
and honesty because the reason we are being so

01:10:40.239 --> 01:10:44.819
bamboozled in this world is because everybody

01:10:44.819 --> 01:10:48.649
is staying silent. Way too many people are staying

01:10:48.649 --> 01:10:52.430
silent. And we need more of you. We need more

01:10:52.430 --> 01:10:55.130
of the Megyn Kellys who are not afraid to go

01:10:55.130 --> 01:10:58.850
outside and say, no, you're not going to silence

01:10:58.850 --> 01:11:01.689
me, and I am going to tell the truth. Because

01:11:01.689 --> 01:11:04.329
people deserve to hear the truth, and that's

01:11:04.329 --> 01:11:09.970
why I'm here. Well, fortunately. I'm not the

01:11:09.970 --> 01:11:13.510
only one. I mean, we are in short supply. You're

01:11:13.510 --> 01:11:16.170
not wrong about that. You know, and that's why

01:11:16.170 --> 01:11:19.090
having people like yourselves step into the that's

01:11:19.090 --> 01:11:21.350
why you have to step into the breach. You shouldn't

01:11:21.350 --> 01:11:25.630
have to be doing this. We shouldn't even be at

01:11:25.630 --> 01:11:29.189
this point as a society where people can use

01:11:29.189 --> 01:11:32.869
the media as a weapon of mass destruction. That's

01:11:32.869 --> 01:11:34.989
what they use it for. They use it to come after

01:11:34.989 --> 01:11:38.949
people and destroy them. I steal a line from

01:11:38.949 --> 01:11:41.770
a guy I know really well who rescues kids who

01:11:41.770 --> 01:11:44.850
told me once that child sex trafficking is how

01:11:44.850 --> 01:11:47.529
you murder a child without killing them. And

01:11:47.529 --> 01:11:50.630
I realized, wow. That is very powerful, and that's

01:11:50.630 --> 01:11:53.449
exactly what they do to us. You know, when you

01:11:53.449 --> 01:11:55.789
come after someone to destroy their reputation,

01:11:56.170 --> 01:12:00.649
this is how you murder someone without killing

01:12:00.649 --> 01:12:02.850
them. Because they don't just want you to lose

01:12:02.850 --> 01:12:06.430
your job. They want you to become unemployable.

01:12:06.750 --> 01:12:09.350
Right. They don't. And there were people, I think

01:12:09.350 --> 01:12:11.590
Slate, you know, there was a woman from Slate

01:12:11.590 --> 01:12:15.010
who was campaigning for my marriage to come apart,

01:12:15.149 --> 01:12:17.229
was was going out there saying she hoped that

01:12:17.229 --> 01:12:19.670
I, you know, that my husband left me. And we

01:12:19.670 --> 01:12:22.029
had a guy come to our house. I was in the bath

01:12:22.029 --> 01:12:25.729
upstairs and he convinced, you know, our nanny

01:12:25.729 --> 01:12:28.430
who opened the door that he was a friend. I came

01:12:28.430 --> 01:12:30.250
downstairs and found him rifling through things

01:12:30.250 --> 01:12:34.159
in my living room. OK, I mean, these. these people

01:12:34.159 --> 01:12:37.800
will stop at absolutely nothing when they come

01:12:37.800 --> 01:12:41.640
for you and there's you you feel powerless but

01:12:41.640 --> 01:12:45.399
i mean so you know there were many really the

01:12:45.399 --> 01:12:46.939
answer to your question about what was the lowest

01:12:46.939 --> 01:12:49.199
point is that there were many low points but

01:12:49.199 --> 01:12:53.539
at the same time What I realize is you need to

01:12:53.539 --> 01:12:56.340
start thinking about why am I going through this?

01:12:56.500 --> 01:12:58.960
What is the purpose of this? What am I learning

01:12:58.960 --> 01:13:01.760
from this? And how am I benefiting from this?

01:13:01.840 --> 01:13:03.539
Because it's not financially, that's for sure.

01:13:04.260 --> 01:13:08.920
I'm not benefiting. I wasn't given a big payout

01:13:08.920 --> 01:13:11.479
or anything like that because when my contract

01:13:11.479 --> 01:13:16.119
ended, they wouldn't renew. And I wasn't like...

01:13:16.619 --> 01:13:18.579
One of those people who had their home studio

01:13:18.579 --> 01:13:21.119
built. It was a different time then. When I was

01:13:21.119 --> 01:13:23.300
being attacked, people didn't really know about

01:13:23.300 --> 01:13:25.619
cancel culture. They didn't really understand.

01:13:25.680 --> 01:13:27.800
It's like you said, you know, we believed that

01:13:27.800 --> 01:13:29.680
the media was telling us the truth, right? We

01:13:29.680 --> 01:13:31.880
believed that, you know, Disneyland was a safe

01:13:31.880 --> 01:13:34.220
place to go. I mean, if someone told you that

01:13:34.220 --> 01:13:35.939
it's full of pedophiles that work there, you

01:13:35.939 --> 01:13:38.569
would have been shocked. And now they're like,

01:13:38.649 --> 01:13:40.369
well, of course, that's where pedophiles go to

01:13:40.369 --> 01:13:41.670
work because that's where all the kids are. And

01:13:41.670 --> 01:13:44.149
you're like, oh, yeah, I see. And then you watch

01:13:44.149 --> 01:13:46.670
the arrest records piling up and you're like,

01:13:46.729 --> 01:13:48.689
it really is true. You know, we just thought

01:13:48.689 --> 01:13:51.229
that Disney made family movies. You know what

01:13:51.229 --> 01:13:53.189
I mean? You thought that doctors practiced medicine.

01:13:53.810 --> 01:13:56.149
You thought that the government might lie, but,

01:13:56.149 --> 01:13:58.409
you know, they're not going to do, they're not

01:13:58.409 --> 01:14:02.689
going to conspire to remove a political opponent

01:14:02.689 --> 01:14:05.109
in a presidential election. And then put him

01:14:05.109 --> 01:14:07.630
in prison on false charges. You're super early

01:14:07.630 --> 01:14:09.569
victim of cancel culture before the Internet,

01:14:09.710 --> 01:14:13.489
back in the days of fax machines and so on. And

01:14:13.489 --> 01:14:17.250
it was highly orchestrated. And fast forward,

01:14:17.470 --> 01:14:19.090
you know, with social media, with the government

01:14:19.090 --> 01:14:22.470
telling social media platforms who to censor,

01:14:22.470 --> 01:14:27.229
who not to censor. It's achieved a level of sophistication

01:14:27.229 --> 01:14:31.550
that's kind of scary and happens really, really

01:14:31.550 --> 01:14:35.260
fast now. You know? Yes. Well, I will say Dinesh

01:14:35.260 --> 01:14:37.520
D'Souza was one of the early victims of cancel

01:14:37.520 --> 01:14:40.859
culture, you know? And Bernie Kerik, if you remember.

01:14:41.140 --> 01:14:43.340
I do. I mean, former commissioner. He was going

01:14:43.340 --> 01:14:45.819
to be on the show. He passed recently. Well,

01:14:45.920 --> 01:14:49.939
Bernie was a very, very... I loved Bernie very

01:14:49.939 --> 01:14:52.340
much. He was a very good friend of mine. And

01:14:52.340 --> 01:14:56.340
I'm still reeling from what happened to Bernie,

01:14:56.380 --> 01:15:00.520
but... He was targeted because he was rising

01:15:00.520 --> 01:15:02.840
to a position of power. And at the time that

01:15:02.840 --> 01:15:05.579
he was targeted and sent to prison, no one understood

01:15:05.579 --> 01:15:07.340
those things. They thought if you went to prison,

01:15:07.479 --> 01:15:08.819
if the government charged you with something,

01:15:08.880 --> 01:15:11.140
you must be guilty. I remember him telling me

01:15:11.140 --> 01:15:14.520
that they put him in the same cell as, I believe

01:15:14.520 --> 01:15:17.420
it was Abu Hama al -Masri, but I might have the

01:15:17.420 --> 01:15:19.479
name wrong. It was an Islamic terrorist that

01:15:19.479 --> 01:15:23.479
Bernie had put behind bars. And when he went

01:15:23.479 --> 01:15:27.850
to jail, they put him in that cell. and when

01:15:27.850 --> 01:15:29.390
he tried to talk to one of the prison guards

01:15:29.390 --> 01:15:33.909
about it, the prison guard said to him, I'm sorry,

01:15:34.050 --> 01:15:36.390
Commissioner, but this is on the personal orders

01:15:36.390 --> 01:15:41.010
of Eric Holder himself. So these people are vindictive.

01:15:41.010 --> 01:15:44.689
Eric Holder was the district attorney? No, he

01:15:44.689 --> 01:15:48.350
was attorney general at that time. He was Obama's

01:15:48.350 --> 01:15:51.289
attorney general. They want you to suffer. This

01:15:51.289 --> 01:15:52.810
is the thing. They don't just want you to get

01:15:52.810 --> 01:15:55.750
fired. They really want you to suffer. They want

01:15:55.750 --> 01:15:59.029
you to lose your home, your ability to feed your

01:15:59.029 --> 01:16:01.949
children. They want you to come to complete collapse.

01:16:02.109 --> 01:16:04.590
And if that drives you to suicide, then even

01:16:04.590 --> 01:16:06.510
better because they don't have to worry about

01:16:06.510 --> 01:16:09.390
getting rid of you. What they don't want is for

01:16:09.390 --> 01:16:12.789
you to come back. And when I was describing to

01:16:12.789 --> 01:16:14.130
you what they do when they've got you in the

01:16:14.130 --> 01:16:16.310
dirt, and they've got their foot on your throat

01:16:16.310 --> 01:16:19.890
and they offer you a hand, you can see the difference

01:16:19.890 --> 01:16:23.210
between the people who take the hand and those

01:16:23.210 --> 01:16:27.149
who don't. Right? General Michael Flynn never

01:16:27.149 --> 01:16:29.170
took the hand because they're still attacking

01:16:29.170 --> 01:16:32.789
him to this day. General Stanley McChrystal took

01:16:32.789 --> 01:16:36.170
the hand because he was totally rehabilitated

01:16:36.170 --> 01:16:39.569
and nobody says a word about him and now they

01:16:39.569 --> 01:16:43.250
love him again. General Allen took the hand.

01:16:43.770 --> 01:16:46.829
Because he was, I might have had something to

01:16:46.829 --> 01:16:49.069
do with that. He did tell me. Because when I

01:16:49.069 --> 01:16:51.029
interviewed him in Afghanistan and he admitted

01:16:51.029 --> 01:16:53.510
that Pakistan was lying about killing American

01:16:53.510 --> 01:16:56.609
troops, he then lost the next position he was

01:16:56.609 --> 01:16:58.090
going to. He was pulled out. That was the end

01:16:58.090 --> 01:17:00.050
of his military career. But then what happened?

01:17:00.350 --> 01:17:03.069
Later he came back as the special envoy to Iraq.

01:17:03.430 --> 01:17:07.729
He took the hand. I was offered a hand just a

01:17:07.729 --> 01:17:10.270
couple days after I was put on home leave. A

01:17:10.270 --> 01:17:12.470
journalist I knew from South Africa, who I hadn't

01:17:12.470 --> 01:17:14.189
spoken to in a while, called me and invited me

01:17:14.189 --> 01:17:18.970
to a private dinner with Hillary Clinton. I declined.

01:17:19.470 --> 01:17:22.170
And look at me. They're still attacking me to

01:17:22.170 --> 01:17:28.010
this day. We just had another guest on our show,

01:17:28.149 --> 01:17:32.970
and she was working for ESPN, and she had a little

01:17:32.970 --> 01:17:35.470
bit of a different strategy. Sage Steele. Yes.

01:17:35.649 --> 01:17:38.850
I don't know if you know her story. She sued.

01:17:39.399 --> 01:17:45.579
She sued ESPN during the time that she was still

01:17:45.579 --> 01:17:47.439
being employed. So she would go to work every

01:17:47.439 --> 01:17:50.100
day while she was having this big lawsuit. And,

01:17:50.100 --> 01:17:53.079
you know, I'm super happy she won. In hindsight,

01:17:53.180 --> 01:17:56.279
do you wish that you would have sued CNN and

01:17:56.279 --> 01:18:02.239
CBS and really just said, you know what, I'm

01:18:02.239 --> 01:18:04.979
going to fight you guys even harder? Do you have

01:18:04.979 --> 01:18:06.520
any regrets? Do you have anything that you would

01:18:06.520 --> 01:18:09.890
change? Would you have done anything differently?

01:18:10.909 --> 01:18:16.229
Well, I did want to take legal action. But, you

01:18:16.229 --> 01:18:19.229
know, everyone tries to talk you out of it, right?

01:18:19.310 --> 01:18:21.310
Because obviously suing people is very expensive

01:18:21.310 --> 01:18:26.630
and so on and so on. And then, you know, in the

01:18:26.630 --> 01:18:29.630
end, when we parted ways, I had to, of course,

01:18:29.649 --> 01:18:33.270
in order to get my, what was it, my severance,

01:18:33.409 --> 01:18:37.140
I had to... agree not to i had to agree to give

01:18:37.140 --> 01:18:41.000
up all my rights and so and i i did it because

01:18:41.000 --> 01:18:43.359
i couldn't afford not to that's the truth i just

01:18:43.359 --> 01:18:45.500
i couldn't afford not to i didn't have the money

01:18:45.500 --> 01:18:51.399
to do it but i did want to sue um not new york

01:18:51.399 --> 01:18:54.500
magazine There's a reporter who, when he did

01:18:54.500 --> 01:18:57.159
the hit piece on me, remember that strategic

01:18:57.159 --> 01:18:59.760
long -term hit piece that came out that got my

01:18:59.760 --> 01:19:02.420
boss trying to prove to everyone that he didn't

01:19:02.420 --> 01:19:05.000
favor me in any way and then got Les Moonves

01:19:05.000 --> 01:19:08.399
involved? Well, that guy, in order to make that

01:19:08.399 --> 01:19:11.539
hit piece credible, he had to take what happened

01:19:11.539 --> 01:19:15.539
to me in Egypt and reduce that to being groped,

01:19:15.539 --> 01:19:17.439
which is what he said when I was groped. Those

01:19:17.439 --> 01:19:19.119
are the words. I was groped on the streets of

01:19:19.119 --> 01:19:21.989
Egypt. And he had to do that because... That

01:19:21.989 --> 01:19:25.409
was a moment that transcended partisan politics.

01:19:25.829 --> 01:19:28.529
Democrats and Republicans alike, nobody wants

01:19:28.529 --> 01:19:32.069
to think of, you know, a young woman being gang

01:19:32.069 --> 01:19:34.489
raped and sodomized and beaten almost to death.

01:19:34.649 --> 01:19:40.649
And the way that I dealt with that earned people's

01:19:40.649 --> 01:19:44.319
respect and it earned their trust. And that,

01:19:44.500 --> 01:19:46.560
you know, I had the editor of the New Yorker

01:19:46.560 --> 01:19:48.880
wrote to me, an attack on one is an attack on

01:19:48.880 --> 01:19:51.659
all. Hillary Clinton wrote to me. General David

01:19:51.659 --> 01:19:54.399
Petraeus wrote to me. President Obama called

01:19:54.399 --> 01:19:58.220
me on the phone from the White House to tell

01:19:58.220 --> 01:20:00.180
me how sorry he was about what happened to me.

01:20:00.439 --> 01:20:03.600
I mean, you know, it was a big deal. And how

01:20:03.600 --> 01:20:07.560
could they reduce that? And how could they minimize

01:20:07.560 --> 01:20:12.109
this sympathy for me? The only way they could

01:20:12.109 --> 01:20:15.710
do it was to lie. So he lied. And I really wanted

01:20:15.710 --> 01:20:18.210
to sue New York Magazine because of all the things

01:20:18.210 --> 01:20:23.130
that made me super angry at that point. Any survivor

01:20:23.130 --> 01:20:26.609
of sexual assault knows that your word is all

01:20:26.609 --> 01:20:30.229
you have. That was one of the reasons I spoke

01:20:30.229 --> 01:20:32.850
out in the first place, because I recognized

01:20:32.850 --> 01:20:35.310
that this was not going to be my dirty secret,

01:20:35.630 --> 01:20:38.029
that I was going to have to carry this in shame,

01:20:38.170 --> 01:20:41.010
hide it from everybody, figure out how to deal

01:20:41.010 --> 01:20:43.630
with it on my own, pretend to be normal. That

01:20:43.630 --> 01:20:46.310
wasn't going to happen. I mean, never. I never

01:20:46.310 --> 01:20:48.250
even considered that. I don't consider it brave

01:20:48.250 --> 01:20:50.630
speaking out because not speaking out wasn't

01:20:50.630 --> 01:20:53.810
even an option for me. And what I learned was

01:20:53.810 --> 01:20:57.460
that I was I was able to. and opened the door

01:20:57.460 --> 01:21:00.340
for many other people to be honest about what

01:21:00.340 --> 01:21:02.640
happened to them. And sometimes they just told

01:21:02.640 --> 01:21:04.819
their husband or their wife. Sometimes they just

01:21:04.819 --> 01:21:08.199
told their mother. But I had tens of thousands

01:21:08.199 --> 01:21:11.119
of people come to me with those stories. So it

01:21:11.119 --> 01:21:16.319
was very, very, that was central to my ability

01:21:16.319 --> 01:21:19.479
to survive what happened to me, was that it wasn't

01:21:19.479 --> 01:21:23.220
erased and it wasn't buried. And this guy...

01:21:23.449 --> 01:21:25.970
just flat out lied because he's completely worthless.

01:21:26.289 --> 01:21:30.850
And I did get an attorney to sue New York Magazine.

01:21:32.149 --> 01:21:34.630
But I got, you know, what happened, what ended

01:21:34.630 --> 01:21:37.310
up happening was that attorney wrote a complaint

01:21:37.310 --> 01:21:40.010
that was riddled with things that were not true.

01:21:40.210 --> 01:21:43.210
And all of them were in my favor, all of them.

01:21:43.829 --> 01:21:46.130
And they went after CBS and they went after my

01:21:46.130 --> 01:21:47.770
boss, they went after everybody. And you know

01:21:47.770 --> 01:21:51.489
what? If I had launched that suit at the height

01:21:51.489 --> 01:21:53.930
of the Me Too movement, I probably would have

01:21:53.930 --> 01:21:57.329
won. But I would have completely and utterly

01:21:57.329 --> 01:22:00.229
sold my soul. And so I had to turn around to

01:22:00.229 --> 01:22:02.729
that attorney and say, what is this? Don't put

01:22:02.729 --> 01:22:05.529
my name on this. This is a complete lie. And

01:22:05.529 --> 01:22:07.750
I believe that was a setup. I think that's another

01:22:07.750 --> 01:22:10.630
part of the setup is that you end up with an

01:22:10.630 --> 01:22:13.409
attorney that is not working for you. Because

01:22:13.409 --> 01:22:16.109
if she could have... won that case, she hated

01:22:16.109 --> 01:22:18.770
my boss and CBS. She'd won a number of cases

01:22:18.770 --> 01:22:21.050
against them. So that would have been just another

01:22:21.050 --> 01:22:23.449
victory for her. And if it had all come apart,

01:22:23.750 --> 01:22:26.569
I would have been taken down and, you know, and

01:22:26.569 --> 01:22:28.789
that that wouldn't have mattered to them. So

01:22:28.789 --> 01:22:32.069
then I got another attorney and and and he just

01:22:32.069 --> 01:22:34.909
lied and didn't do what he said that he was going

01:22:34.909 --> 01:22:38.310
to do. And I gave up at that point, you know,

01:22:38.329 --> 01:22:40.949
because it was just it took too much out of me.

01:22:41.210 --> 01:22:46.359
And. And all I can tell you is that at that time,

01:22:46.380 --> 01:22:48.779
we didn't know about lawfare. You know, people

01:22:48.779 --> 01:22:50.739
didn't know. For example, when I was investigating

01:22:50.739 --> 01:22:54.819
the Benghazi story, one of the guys that actually

01:22:54.819 --> 01:23:00.020
was on that team for the CIA that went with the

01:23:00.020 --> 01:23:02.819
QRF to the embassy and fought their way in, you

01:23:02.819 --> 01:23:05.340
know, and then fought their way back to the annex,

01:23:05.500 --> 01:23:08.180
the subject of 13 Hours, the movie, he agreed

01:23:08.180 --> 01:23:11.029
to do an interview with me. But he passed me

01:23:11.029 --> 01:23:13.609
on to his attorney. Well, his attorney had zero

01:23:13.609 --> 01:23:16.510
interest in helping me. And so I was struggling

01:23:16.510 --> 01:23:18.590
with this, and I was speaking to another journalist

01:23:18.590 --> 01:23:21.289
at the time, and he said, have you looked at

01:23:21.289 --> 01:23:24.670
that attorney's record? And I said, no, what

01:23:24.670 --> 01:23:26.750
do you mean? And he said, well, he's the go -to

01:23:26.750 --> 01:23:30.109
guy that you get for taking on the agency, right?

01:23:30.869 --> 01:23:33.890
And he was. He was the go -to guy. And he said,

01:23:33.909 --> 01:23:35.189
well, don't you think it's odd that he's never

01:23:35.189 --> 01:23:38.289
won a case? And this is part of the strategy,

01:23:38.470 --> 01:23:42.840
what they do. Yes. So the book agent that represents

01:23:42.840 --> 01:23:46.279
you, what do they do? They get you a whole chunk

01:23:46.279 --> 01:23:48.600
of money because they know people need the money.

01:23:48.819 --> 01:23:52.140
And then they control the narrative. The movie

01:23:52.140 --> 01:23:55.039
producer that makes your film, what do they do?

01:23:55.119 --> 01:23:57.319
They control the narrative because look at that

01:23:57.319 --> 01:24:00.960
movie about Benghazi, 13 hours. All it did was

01:24:00.960 --> 01:24:04.439
say these guys were heroes and they fought their

01:24:04.439 --> 01:24:06.619
way in and they fought their way out. That's

01:24:06.619 --> 01:24:09.489
it. It didn't tell you why they were there. It

01:24:09.489 --> 01:24:11.390
didn't tell you who was responsible for the attack.

01:24:11.590 --> 01:24:14.489
It didn't tell you the Obama administration was

01:24:14.489 --> 01:24:17.689
lying about al -Qaeda in Libya, lying about al

01:24:17.689 --> 01:24:19.810
-Qaeda worldwide, lying about the Islamic threat.

01:24:20.010 --> 01:24:23.590
It didn't tell you anything. What they did is

01:24:23.590 --> 01:24:26.630
they got the Benghazi movie and book done. They

01:24:26.630 --> 01:24:29.930
got those guys silenced with NDAs on their way

01:24:29.930 --> 01:24:32.229
with a nice payout so that they wouldn't come

01:24:32.229 --> 01:24:35.369
back. And then they made sure that no one else

01:24:35.369 --> 01:24:38.520
could get a story or a movie made. about Benghazi

01:24:38.520 --> 01:24:40.399
again, because any time you'd go and pitch that,

01:24:40.560 --> 01:24:43.600
you know what they say? Oh, that story's been

01:24:43.600 --> 01:24:47.399
done. That movie's been done. Wow. Wow. It's

01:24:47.399 --> 01:24:50.699
elaborate. That's how they work. Yeah. It's elaborate.

01:24:50.899 --> 01:24:54.100
I mean, it's crazy. But, you know, at the end

01:24:54.100 --> 01:24:58.739
of this, you know, how do you feel you've come

01:24:58.739 --> 01:25:00.880
out of this at the end? Are you still fighting?

01:25:01.140 --> 01:25:04.939
How do you feel you're at right now? Well, I

01:25:04.939 --> 01:25:07.810
was set free. you know that's what happened to

01:25:07.810 --> 01:25:10.750
me that's how i i feel like i've always had the

01:25:10.750 --> 01:25:14.069
hand of god on me what i've survived um over

01:25:14.069 --> 01:25:16.550
my lifetime the places that i've been to often

01:25:16.550 --> 01:25:19.489
on my own not always but and certainly just myself

01:25:19.489 --> 01:25:21.550
and a cameraman just myself and a cameraman or

01:25:21.550 --> 01:25:24.670
a producer you know small teams but but a lot

01:25:24.670 --> 01:25:29.010
of stuff that i did solo and i and i just know

01:25:29.010 --> 01:25:34.229
that it was important for me to understand um

01:25:34.859 --> 01:25:37.420
that the media is biased, that the mainstream

01:25:37.420 --> 01:25:41.560
media was biased, that we all had a similar worldview.

01:25:42.039 --> 01:25:47.000
It wasn't that somebody directed you, don't say

01:25:47.000 --> 01:25:50.020
this, don't say that. It was just that nobody

01:25:50.020 --> 01:25:52.220
even considered, like, what's a good example?

01:25:52.779 --> 01:25:55.039
You know, I always give the example of Roe v.

01:25:55.119 --> 01:25:59.800
Wade. Nobody would have considered reporting

01:25:59.800 --> 01:26:03.699
on that issue in anything other than... you know,

01:26:03.699 --> 01:26:07.039
leftist pro -abortion terms. When we covered

01:26:07.039 --> 01:26:11.500
pro -life movement, it was as these lunatics

01:26:11.500 --> 01:26:14.640
from the pro -life movement, right? And so you

01:26:14.640 --> 01:26:16.760
don't realize because you've come through university,

01:26:16.939 --> 01:26:19.899
you've come up the same way. You think, you know,

01:26:19.899 --> 01:26:23.460
I mean, everybody was united in their disgust

01:26:23.460 --> 01:26:26.420
for George Bush and, you know, Cheney and everybody

01:26:26.420 --> 01:26:29.079
else. And everybody was, you know, when I criticized

01:26:29.079 --> 01:26:32.439
them, I was elevated. I mean, the Washington

01:26:32.439 --> 01:26:35.359
Post wrote glowing reviews of my work, the New

01:26:35.359 --> 01:26:38.220
York Times. I was Glamour Woman of the Year.

01:26:38.319 --> 01:26:41.159
I was, you know, one of their women that they

01:26:41.159 --> 01:26:43.479
honored in their Women of the Year competition.

01:26:43.720 --> 01:26:47.380
I was in Vogue magazine. I mean, you know, I

01:26:47.380 --> 01:26:51.159
was the future. I was hailed as the future of

01:26:51.159 --> 01:26:54.260
60 Minutes. I won the highest award in journalism,

01:26:54.399 --> 01:26:57.520
the DuPont Silver Baton from Columbia University.

01:26:57.880 --> 01:27:02.590
I mean, I was. You know, and I and I was, you

01:27:02.590 --> 01:27:05.010
know, a hard worker and I worked with my team

01:27:05.010 --> 01:27:07.810
and I was very grateful for those for that recognition.

01:27:08.069 --> 01:27:09.970
But we always had a thing, you know, you're only

01:27:09.970 --> 01:27:12.970
as good as your last story. And so I really had

01:27:12.970 --> 01:27:17.430
no idea that we were inside of this bubble. And

01:27:17.430 --> 01:27:19.630
when when people, particularly soldiers, because

01:27:19.630 --> 01:27:21.350
I spent, you know, 10 years on the battlefield,

01:27:21.689 --> 01:27:23.670
they would say to me, you guys, you know what

01:27:23.670 --> 01:27:27.149
CBS is known as the Communist Broadcasting Service.

01:27:27.310 --> 01:27:30.289
Right. And I'd be like. what? You know, and they

01:27:30.289 --> 01:27:32.130
thought Dan Rather is a communist. I'd be like,

01:27:32.229 --> 01:27:35.670
what? I mean, you guys are crazy. And gradually

01:27:35.670 --> 01:27:40.350
over time, I started to see the bias creep in.

01:27:40.390 --> 01:27:43.029
And it's about story selection. What stories

01:27:43.029 --> 01:27:45.069
do you choose to cover? What stories do you not

01:27:45.069 --> 01:27:48.949
choose to cover? What do you know? And my boss

01:27:48.949 --> 01:27:51.470
was not like that. He was a real journalist and

01:27:51.470 --> 01:27:56.220
we did great work. Then I started, then I became,

01:27:56.399 --> 01:27:58.520
I think I was being prepared for what was to

01:27:58.520 --> 01:28:02.720
come because I am a living, breathing example

01:28:02.720 --> 01:28:08.000
that the good is stronger than evil and the truth

01:28:08.000 --> 01:28:10.720
is stronger than everything and God is more powerful

01:28:10.720 --> 01:28:13.420
than anything else. I mean, I am the physical

01:28:13.420 --> 01:28:16.239
living, breathing example of that. They've tried

01:28:16.239 --> 01:28:19.260
to get rid of me so many times. They canceled

01:28:19.260 --> 01:28:21.960
me from Fox. I never, you know, I'll tell you

01:28:21.960 --> 01:28:24.170
what happens to you when you get canceled. I

01:28:24.170 --> 01:28:27.310
got a small contract with a production company

01:28:27.310 --> 01:28:30.250
in Missoula, Montana, to do a series for Fox

01:28:30.250 --> 01:28:33.710
Nation, which I did after my last contract with

01:28:33.710 --> 01:28:36.449
CBS ended. And I did a year at the border for

01:28:36.449 --> 01:28:39.050
Sinclair Media in between that. But then I got

01:28:39.050 --> 01:28:41.630
that contract. Well, all the work I did on Fox

01:28:41.630 --> 01:28:43.850
News, because I was on Fox News all the time,

01:28:43.890 --> 01:28:46.529
people will say, oh, you know, Daily Beast, the

01:28:46.529 --> 01:28:48.729
right wing gets their darling. You know, there

01:28:48.729 --> 01:28:50.529
she goes. She should have been at Fox all along

01:28:50.529 --> 01:28:54.210
because she's such a right winger. What happened?

01:28:54.350 --> 01:28:57.510
I never got a contract with Fox. I was working.

01:28:58.029 --> 01:29:01.130
My first salary for that series, Laura Logan

01:29:01.130 --> 01:29:03.590
Has No Agenda, that I did for Fox Nation, was

01:29:03.590 --> 01:29:06.590
less than my starting salary as a young CBS News

01:29:06.590 --> 01:29:11.250
correspondent. And I just worked my butt off.

01:29:11.390 --> 01:29:14.789
I did everything that I could do for Fox News,

01:29:14.989 --> 01:29:17.770
even though I wasn't paid to do it. I did it

01:29:17.770 --> 01:29:20.449
because I'm a journalist, and that's my job,

01:29:20.550 --> 01:29:23.279
and I feel responsible for that. And I did it

01:29:23.279 --> 01:29:25.260
because I knew that it would be good for me at

01:29:25.260 --> 01:29:26.899
Fox. I would be able to build relationships.

01:29:27.279 --> 01:29:29.100
And I was hoping, you know, that I would have

01:29:29.100 --> 01:29:32.199
some security again. And I did it to promote

01:29:32.199 --> 01:29:34.039
my show because I knew that that was important

01:29:34.039 --> 01:29:36.779
and would benefit me. And then once we were on

01:29:36.779 --> 01:29:40.300
the fourth season, I think, and we were in the

01:29:40.300 --> 01:29:42.439
midst of negotiations, they asked me about Anthony

01:29:42.439 --> 01:29:46.699
Fauci. And I had obviously was familiar with

01:29:46.699 --> 01:29:51.380
RFK Jr.'s book and what he had written. and had

01:29:51.380 --> 01:29:54.159
now learned what Fauci did with HIV and about

01:29:54.159 --> 01:29:57.119
the experiments that he did on, you know, black

01:29:57.119 --> 01:30:01.960
and Hispanic orphans, babies, the medical experiments

01:30:01.960 --> 01:30:04.159
that he did and all these terrible things. And

01:30:04.159 --> 01:30:06.659
as an African, I lived through HIV. I stood and

01:30:06.659 --> 01:30:09.979
looked, watched them, filmed them, digging mass

01:30:09.979 --> 01:30:12.600
graves for all the babies that would die every

01:30:12.600 --> 01:30:14.800
week. You know, and so these things, and I talked

01:30:14.800 --> 01:30:16.500
to a lot of doctors, I talked to a lot of people,

01:30:16.560 --> 01:30:19.060
and they asked me, you know, Fauci says, I am

01:30:19.060 --> 01:30:21.550
science. And if you criticize me, you're criticizing

01:30:21.550 --> 01:30:23.970
science. And they asked me about that. And I

01:30:23.970 --> 01:30:26.930
said, I said, you know, I don't know about that.

01:30:27.010 --> 01:30:29.010
I said, I talked to a lot of people, doctors

01:30:29.010 --> 01:30:32.350
and others, and they don't see Fauci as science.

01:30:32.409 --> 01:30:35.449
They see more as Dr. Joseph Mengele, doctor of

01:30:35.449 --> 01:30:37.949
death. Well, they went nuts. Then they said I

01:30:37.949 --> 01:30:41.489
was anti -Semitic and trivializing the Holocaust,

01:30:41.550 --> 01:30:44.149
which was the last thing that I was doing. Oh,

01:30:44.250 --> 01:30:47.210
yeah. And then and so then I was canceled from

01:30:47.210 --> 01:30:51.500
Fox and my agent of. 18 years dumped me, you

01:30:51.500 --> 01:30:55.600
know, and I was canceled again. And then when

01:30:55.600 --> 01:30:58.779
I was on Newsmax, it's funny because I didn't

01:30:58.779 --> 01:31:03.220
work for Newsmax and I was asked, you know, to

01:31:03.220 --> 01:31:06.439
do many times to do interviews with them. And,

01:31:06.539 --> 01:31:08.819
you know, this is only about the second or third

01:31:08.819 --> 01:31:12.760
one I'd ever done. And I made the comment. This

01:31:12.760 --> 01:31:14.560
is when they kept, you know, Angelina Jolie and

01:31:14.560 --> 01:31:16.640
all these people out there eating insects, trying

01:31:16.640 --> 01:31:18.939
to promote insects as a real alternative to real

01:31:18.939 --> 01:31:21.260
food. And I said, you know, these people, they

01:31:21.260 --> 01:31:23.600
want us to dine on the blood. They want to dine

01:31:23.600 --> 01:31:26.680
on the blood of children while we eat insects.

01:31:27.420 --> 01:31:30.340
Wow. So Newsmax went to the point of actually

01:31:30.340 --> 01:31:33.500
putting out a statement saying that I was now

01:31:33.500 --> 01:31:37.000
banned and so on, and they canceled me. And I

01:31:37.000 --> 01:31:38.859
was like, I don't even work for Newsmax. You

01:31:38.859 --> 01:31:42.220
can cancel me if you want. I don't care. So now

01:31:42.220 --> 01:31:45.180
the truth is I don't care what they say, and

01:31:45.180 --> 01:31:47.880
I don't care what they do. I don't waste time.

01:31:48.260 --> 01:31:52.159
They want you to spend time and energy defending

01:31:52.159 --> 01:31:56.100
yourself, and they want to break you. slowly.

01:31:56.260 --> 01:31:58.619
And they have two strategies. It's either attack

01:31:58.619 --> 01:32:02.319
or they're going to ignore. So if they can get

01:32:02.319 --> 01:32:04.180
away with ignoring you and pretending that you're

01:32:04.180 --> 01:32:06.260
irrelevant and you don't matter, they'll do that.

01:32:06.560 --> 01:32:08.600
But when you really get under their skin, like

01:32:08.600 --> 01:32:10.300
when I was reporting on Antifa, I'm getting a

01:32:10.300 --> 01:32:13.260
handwritten death threat mailed to my home address

01:32:13.260 --> 01:32:17.460
because you're right and they can't bear it.

01:32:17.659 --> 01:32:20.779
So if you want sort of a roadmap to, you know,

01:32:20.779 --> 01:32:23.340
who are the people like when Trump appoints someone.

01:32:23.710 --> 01:32:25.750
and they get attacked, that's a sure sign that

01:32:25.750 --> 01:32:28.649
they're not owned by the deep state, right? And

01:32:28.649 --> 01:32:31.750
it's the same thing here. And I will say there

01:32:31.750 --> 01:32:35.409
are some great journalists like Cheryl Atkinson,

01:32:35.489 --> 01:32:39.710
also formerly of CBS, also savaged for her work.

01:32:39.770 --> 01:32:42.189
She did the Fast and Furious thing. She broke

01:32:42.189 --> 01:32:44.949
that story. She's been reporting on vaccines

01:32:44.949 --> 01:32:49.149
forever. In fact, people at CBS used to tell

01:32:49.149 --> 01:32:52.399
me she was right -wing because she... was an

01:32:52.399 --> 01:32:54.939
anti -vaxxer. And she wasn't an anti -vaxxer.

01:32:55.140 --> 01:32:58.180
There was still mercury in the vaccines at that

01:32:58.180 --> 01:32:59.939
time. I mean, who thought that was a good idea?

01:32:59.939 --> 01:33:01.939
There's still mercury in vaccines now. They just

01:33:01.939 --> 01:33:05.140
hide it very well. There you go. So, you know,

01:33:05.159 --> 01:33:09.479
you just painted a picture for me that I just

01:33:09.479 --> 01:33:12.100
got. And I hope that our viewers listening got

01:33:12.100 --> 01:33:16.380
this as well. It's like the frog in the boiling,

01:33:16.539 --> 01:33:19.460
in the hot water. Yeah, how to boil a frog slowly.

01:33:20.000 --> 01:33:23.180
Yes, where they're taking all these bright, young,

01:33:23.279 --> 01:33:27.220
beautiful minds, and they are slowly turning

01:33:27.220 --> 01:33:31.180
the heat up. You know, they're brainwashing and

01:33:31.180 --> 01:33:33.659
manipulating. And so these journalists, they're

01:33:33.659 --> 01:33:35.600
growing up through the ranks, and they're thinking,

01:33:35.659 --> 01:33:38.479
yeah, I'm fighting for truth. Yeah, I'm fighting

01:33:38.479 --> 01:33:41.600
for what's right. And they're in this box. They're

01:33:41.600 --> 01:33:44.819
in this bubble. And they can't see that what

01:33:44.819 --> 01:33:48.620
they're doing is not real journalism. Because

01:33:48.620 --> 01:33:52.159
there's always this threat. They're saying that,

01:33:52.199 --> 01:33:54.300
oh, this person that spoke up, they're gone now

01:33:54.300 --> 01:33:56.300
and I value my career and I want to rise through

01:33:56.300 --> 01:33:58.579
the ranks as well. And, oh, my God, I wrote this

01:33:58.579 --> 01:34:00.779
piece and look at the awards I got for this.

01:34:01.020 --> 01:34:04.819
Look at the awards I got for that. And so it's

01:34:04.819 --> 01:34:08.420
almost like subconsciously, I mean, they're in

01:34:08.420 --> 01:34:10.539
this matrix, but they don't see that they're

01:34:10.539 --> 01:34:15.159
in this matrix. And you slowly started to peek

01:34:15.159 --> 01:34:19.350
your head out of. the matrix until you were like

01:34:19.350 --> 01:34:23.850
one day, boom. Oh my God. I was living that the

01:34:23.850 --> 01:34:27.449
whole time and thinking I was really in alignment

01:34:27.449 --> 01:34:31.409
because it was how they almost groomed you. They're

01:34:31.409 --> 01:34:35.170
grooming you guys to be in alignment, to walk

01:34:35.170 --> 01:34:39.850
in step with one another. They're grooming all

01:34:39.850 --> 01:34:43.270
of us. Every college. Yes. Yes. Every college.

01:34:43.819 --> 01:34:45.920
I mean, it doesn't matter if you're in law or

01:34:45.920 --> 01:34:49.479
PR or whatever you're in, you're being groomed.

01:34:49.479 --> 01:34:51.000
And that's what the World Economic Forum and

01:34:51.000 --> 01:34:54.439
all of that stuff is about. That's why we have

01:34:54.439 --> 01:34:57.539
government by corporations now, right? Like Walmart

01:34:57.539 --> 01:35:00.279
decides it's going to implement gun controls

01:35:00.279 --> 01:35:02.439
just because you can't get rid of the Second

01:35:02.439 --> 01:35:04.560
Amendment through Congress because the American

01:35:04.560 --> 01:35:07.779
people want it. And the other thing that they

01:35:07.779 --> 01:35:10.500
do, Dinesh D'Souza made me realize this, there's

01:35:10.500 --> 01:35:13.899
sort of accepted truths. that nobody questions.

01:35:14.239 --> 01:35:17.279
And that's really dangerous because we're supposed

01:35:17.279 --> 01:35:20.100
to question everything. So I think actually being

01:35:20.100 --> 01:35:22.840
attacked and canceled made me a better journalist.

01:35:23.100 --> 01:35:26.460
I work to a different standard because the truth

01:35:26.460 --> 01:35:32.979
is that I bet you at least 50 to 60 percent of

01:35:32.979 --> 01:35:36.119
what you hear, maybe even 80 percent on a daily

01:35:36.119 --> 01:35:39.239
basis, hasn't been vetted or verified by anybody.

01:35:39.689 --> 01:35:43.649
And they get away with it because nobody, number

01:35:43.649 --> 01:35:46.689
one, because that's often in line with the narrative

01:35:46.689 --> 01:35:50.590
of the people who are in power and because nobody

01:35:50.590 --> 01:35:54.710
cares. So, you know, how do you know? Well, look,

01:35:54.789 --> 01:35:59.069
they had information dominance, right? When I

01:35:59.069 --> 01:36:02.170
was attacked, they had total information dominance.

01:36:02.369 --> 01:36:05.090
You know, outside of Rush Limbaugh, you know,

01:36:05.090 --> 01:36:07.739
and talk radio, there wasn't. You know, you were

01:36:07.739 --> 01:36:10.659
hard -pressed to find anything. And look what

01:36:10.659 --> 01:36:13.079
they did to that. They said, where I worked,

01:36:13.199 --> 01:36:15.479
I mean, I couldn't have put Rush Limbaugh on

01:36:15.479 --> 01:36:19.140
an evening news broadcast as a source, you know,

01:36:19.159 --> 01:36:21.819
or as a person commenting on anything. Even if

01:36:21.819 --> 01:36:23.359
it was about Rush Limbaugh, I couldn't have done

01:36:23.359 --> 01:36:25.300
it because people were like, oh, that lunatic,

01:36:25.380 --> 01:36:27.979
you can't give that right -wing lunatic any credibility.

01:36:28.039 --> 01:36:30.500
He doesn't have any credibility, right? So they

01:36:30.500 --> 01:36:32.880
had total information dominance. And now that

01:36:32.880 --> 01:36:37.170
has been broken. And that's a big problem for

01:36:37.170 --> 01:36:41.350
them because they don't control the flow of information

01:36:41.350 --> 01:36:45.550
anymore. But information has become the battlefield.

01:36:45.930 --> 01:36:48.829
It's the main battlefield. The problem is with

01:36:48.829 --> 01:36:53.710
technology, you now have self -censorship at

01:36:53.710 --> 01:36:56.449
an extreme level. Because if I want to survive

01:36:56.449 --> 01:36:59.029
in independent media, I've got to have a YouTube

01:36:59.029 --> 01:37:01.609
channel. And to have a YouTube channel, I've

01:37:01.609 --> 01:37:06.859
got to censor. I stay within those limits because

01:37:06.859 --> 01:37:09.000
otherwise I get demonetized and then I can't

01:37:09.000 --> 01:37:12.420
survive. And so now what's happening, we put

01:37:12.420 --> 01:37:14.420
our show, my podcast, Going Rogue with Laura

01:37:14.420 --> 01:37:17.260
Logan, we put that on TikTok just recently and

01:37:17.260 --> 01:37:21.180
boom, boom, two strikes immediately. And so now

01:37:21.180 --> 01:37:23.199
what people are doing is they're censoring themselves.

01:37:23.300 --> 01:37:25.779
They're saving these tech companies from the

01:37:25.779 --> 01:37:27.800
job of censoring. They're doing it for them.

01:37:27.960 --> 01:37:30.340
Now that was happening even at 60 Minutes because

01:37:30.340 --> 01:37:34.350
like you said, you get rewarded. If you lie about

01:37:34.350 --> 01:37:36.850
Hunter Biden's laptop, you get rewarded. You

01:37:36.850 --> 01:37:38.909
lie about Russia collusion, you get a Pulitzer.

01:37:39.510 --> 01:37:41.409
You know what I mean? So we've got a system where

01:37:41.409 --> 01:37:43.970
you tell the truth, you get punished and you

01:37:43.970 --> 01:37:46.609
lie and you get rewarded. You rise through the

01:37:46.609 --> 01:37:48.609
ranks. You know, look at these people like Don

01:37:48.609 --> 01:37:50.550
Lemon making millions and millions and millions

01:37:50.550 --> 01:37:53.989
of dollars. All these people on MSNBC, Rachel

01:37:53.989 --> 01:37:56.069
Maddow. And, you know, they go out there and

01:37:56.069 --> 01:37:59.609
they lie and they're not struggling financially.

01:38:00.170 --> 01:38:02.380
You know what I mean? And they're getting rewarded

01:38:02.380 --> 01:38:05.380
every step along the way. And so then now what

01:38:05.380 --> 01:38:08.619
happens, you introduce media, social media and

01:38:08.619 --> 01:38:12.319
new media, and what do they have? Absolute control.

01:38:12.720 --> 01:38:16.420
If they want to block you, you're done. You're

01:38:16.420 --> 01:38:18.939
gone. And they've got all your data, all your

01:38:18.939 --> 01:38:20.640
followers, all your subscriptions. They've got

01:38:20.640 --> 01:38:24.699
everything. Are you on Rumble or any places where

01:38:24.699 --> 01:38:26.979
you can just, like I said, the Layla Show is

01:38:26.979 --> 01:38:30.300
only on Rumble. I'm not even trying to deal.

01:38:30.939 --> 01:38:33.359
Who's going to buy Rumble? Who's bought Rumble?

01:38:33.479 --> 01:38:35.880
Who has the controlling shares in Rumble today?

01:38:36.279 --> 01:38:39.060
I mean, technology, these companies change ownership

01:38:39.060 --> 01:38:43.000
constantly. So you may, for a time, the problem

01:38:43.000 --> 01:38:48.520
is we are allowed an illusion of freedom and

01:38:48.520 --> 01:38:51.979
independence on these platforms. Rumble, YouTube,

01:38:52.180 --> 01:38:55.479
it doesn't matter. If they choose to cut you

01:38:55.479 --> 01:38:58.659
off, you're done. And so now we have like, if

01:38:58.659 --> 01:39:01.600
you like, you have like a benevolent. you know,

01:39:01.600 --> 01:39:04.760
authority, a benevolent power. So, okay, Rumble

01:39:04.760 --> 01:39:07.920
now is controlled by people that give you a voice,

01:39:08.039 --> 01:39:11.300
but what if they're bored out? It's true. My

01:39:11.300 --> 01:39:14.840
question for you is, where do we go from here?

01:39:15.039 --> 01:39:18.399
What more can we do besides continuing to fight

01:39:18.399 --> 01:39:21.300
and use our voice? Because we are so heavily

01:39:21.300 --> 01:39:23.899
censored, have you thought about what more can

01:39:23.899 --> 01:39:28.279
we do? Well, I think we need to invest in real

01:39:28.279 --> 01:39:33.100
journalism. because if we don't, like the knowledge

01:39:33.100 --> 01:39:35.779
and experience that I have, I don't believe that

01:39:35.779 --> 01:39:37.640
I survived this long and learned what I have

01:39:37.640 --> 01:39:40.479
just to take it to the grave, right? I learned

01:39:40.479 --> 01:39:42.979
from older journalists, more experienced journalists,

01:39:43.159 --> 01:39:46.220
people who are incredibly talented. I learned

01:39:46.220 --> 01:39:50.939
the best from the best, you know, and in independent

01:39:50.939 --> 01:39:54.810
media, who are people learning from? You know,

01:39:54.850 --> 01:39:57.550
if you haven't walked into your boss's office,

01:39:57.770 --> 01:40:01.369
you know, like an excited, you know, little bunny

01:40:01.369 --> 01:40:03.050
rabbit bouncing up and down because you've got

01:40:03.050 --> 01:40:05.470
the best story ever and you lay it out for him

01:40:05.470 --> 01:40:07.770
and he just eviscerates you in about four and

01:40:07.770 --> 01:40:10.590
a half seconds, rips it to shreds. Have you done

01:40:10.590 --> 01:40:12.630
this, this, this? No, that's nonsense. That's

01:40:12.630 --> 01:40:14.369
nonsense. And what about this, this and that?

01:40:14.449 --> 01:40:17.319
And you're like, holy crap. I got to do my homework,

01:40:17.579 --> 01:40:19.899
right? I mean, if you haven't had those kind

01:40:19.899 --> 01:40:22.600
of experiences, if you're not surrounded, you

01:40:22.600 --> 01:40:25.600
know, we don't have newsrooms really anymore.

01:40:25.920 --> 01:40:29.079
I mean, they, you know, the left has newsrooms.

01:40:29.239 --> 01:40:32.439
They have resources. They can pay to send people

01:40:32.439 --> 01:40:35.380
to do firsthand on the ground reporting. Can

01:40:35.380 --> 01:40:38.319
you, I mean, can I go off to North Carolina and

01:40:38.319 --> 01:40:40.260
see what's going there? Can I go to Syria and

01:40:40.260 --> 01:40:42.020
see what's happening on the ground there? How

01:40:42.020 --> 01:40:44.260
am I going to do that? Who's going to pay for

01:40:44.260 --> 01:40:47.439
it? And by the way, you know, crafted investigative

01:40:47.439 --> 01:40:51.260
storytelling like we used to do, like I used

01:40:51.260 --> 01:40:53.500
to do at 60 Minutes, who's going to pay for that?

01:40:53.739 --> 01:40:57.640
It's expensive. It costs a lot of money. You

01:40:57.640 --> 01:41:01.479
know, it takes time to put together. The independent

01:41:01.479 --> 01:41:04.640
media model is built on churning out content.

01:41:04.960 --> 01:41:07.260
Churn out more content, churn out more content.

01:41:07.399 --> 01:41:10.579
Well, daily and immediate content has a very,

01:41:10.659 --> 01:41:13.859
you know, it's very powerful and important, but

01:41:13.859 --> 01:41:17.399
it lacks depth. It's such a dilemma because let's

01:41:17.399 --> 01:41:19.920
say there was somebody, some investment in independent

01:41:19.920 --> 01:41:24.239
journalism. People aren't going to read print,

01:41:24.399 --> 01:41:27.140
so you can forget that. Where is it going to

01:41:27.140 --> 01:41:29.699
appear? On YouTube? I don't know. They're going

01:41:29.699 --> 01:41:32.060
to have to censor themselves. It's not going

01:41:32.060 --> 01:41:33.479
to be on the social media platforms. It has to

01:41:33.479 --> 01:41:40.560
be censored. Blogs? On Medium? It's tough. It's

01:41:40.560 --> 01:41:43.939
tough. Where's all this going? I don't think

01:41:43.939 --> 01:41:46.630
we know yet. I think that's probably the truth,

01:41:46.770 --> 01:41:49.489
right? I mean, maybe some smarter people than

01:41:49.489 --> 01:41:52.130
me know that. But even X has its limitations,

01:41:52.510 --> 01:41:55.710
you know. And even X, you can be, there's people

01:41:55.710 --> 01:41:59.949
now who are canceled on X, who are censored on

01:41:59.949 --> 01:42:02.949
X, who don't have a voice. And there's no one

01:42:02.949 --> 01:42:05.090
to talk to in that situation. There's no human

01:42:05.090 --> 01:42:08.050
being. And that's one of my big frustrations,

01:42:08.050 --> 01:42:10.649
is that if you want to ask someone about something,

01:42:10.789 --> 01:42:13.960
who do you call? You can send an email. That

01:42:13.960 --> 01:42:16.640
may or may not be on sick. My prediction, and

01:42:16.640 --> 01:42:19.079
they talk about AI controlling us. I believe

01:42:19.079 --> 01:42:21.760
that AI has already started to control us because

01:42:21.760 --> 01:42:24.319
I guarantee you when you got your strikes on

01:42:24.319 --> 01:42:27.439
TikTok and we got our first strike on YouTube,

01:42:27.560 --> 01:42:32.159
it was a robot that consumed our content, summarized

01:42:32.159 --> 01:42:34.960
it, found the offending content, wrote up...

01:42:35.149 --> 01:42:37.310
where the offending content is, time -stamped

01:42:37.310 --> 01:42:39.069
it, and then gave us a strike and there was no

01:42:39.069 --> 01:42:41.890
human intervention at all. The robots are controlling

01:42:41.890 --> 01:42:46.970
our voice. It's the first indications of AI controlling

01:42:46.970 --> 01:42:50.750
us. Well, and there may be, you know, I think

01:42:50.750 --> 01:42:53.170
there are actually other indications, like, for

01:42:53.170 --> 01:42:57.399
example, search results, right? I think search

01:42:57.399 --> 01:43:00.479
results have been controlled by AI and controlling

01:43:00.479 --> 01:43:02.899
us for a very long time. In fact, Dr. Robert

01:43:02.899 --> 01:43:05.659
Epstein, he's a Democrat, but he's an incredible

01:43:05.659 --> 01:43:09.140
scientific researcher. He did a movie called

01:43:09.140 --> 01:43:11.409
The Creepy Line. which is about this, showing

01:43:11.409 --> 01:43:15.210
how they manipulate search results to win elections.

01:43:15.989 --> 01:43:19.989
And the proper mix is a scientific mix of search

01:43:19.989 --> 01:43:23.329
results between positive, neutral, and bad that

01:43:23.329 --> 01:43:26.430
they use in order to be credible. And the AI

01:43:26.430 --> 01:43:29.510
can do that, right? The AI can sort all those

01:43:29.510 --> 01:43:32.189
articles and make sure that you're getting exactly

01:43:32.189 --> 01:43:35.500
what they want you to see. And now they're talking,

01:43:35.699 --> 01:43:39.159
the new business models for media are all based

01:43:39.159 --> 01:43:42.560
on AI. Most of them are based on AI. And I have

01:43:42.560 --> 01:43:45.800
said to a few people, okay, that's great. Your

01:43:45.800 --> 01:43:48.420
story was written by AI. How do you know if it's

01:43:48.420 --> 01:43:51.579
true? How do you know if it's accurate? And who's

01:43:51.579 --> 01:43:53.819
going to sit and vet that? Because by the amount

01:43:53.819 --> 01:43:56.180
of work and time and money it takes to vet that,

01:43:56.300 --> 01:43:57.920
you might as well have had a human being on the

01:43:57.920 --> 01:43:59.659
ground. But what's going to happen over time

01:43:59.659 --> 01:44:02.789
is we still have the ability to discern. because

01:44:02.789 --> 01:44:06.029
we've lived in the pre -AI time. But what happens

01:44:06.029 --> 01:44:08.710
when that story has been repeated millions of

01:44:08.710 --> 01:44:11.750
times because it's in everybody's AI and the

01:44:11.750 --> 01:44:13.409
fact that it was never true in the first place

01:44:13.409 --> 01:44:17.510
is completely lost. We're doomed. I wish we were

01:44:17.510 --> 01:44:21.489
ending on a more positive note. Why don't you

01:44:21.489 --> 01:44:23.250
share with us what you're working on? What are

01:44:23.250 --> 01:44:26.800
you up to these days? Well, I have my show, Going

01:44:26.800 --> 01:44:31.800
Rogue, with Lara Logan. And I have a great team,

01:44:31.840 --> 01:44:35.260
small team, but very talented and very committed.

01:44:35.500 --> 01:44:38.399
And that's really important to me, to be able

01:44:38.399 --> 01:44:40.939
to work with good people. And we're doing long

01:44:40.939 --> 01:44:45.380
-form interviews. I exposed something called

01:44:45.380 --> 01:44:50.159
satanic accelerationist cults and insults, which

01:44:50.159 --> 01:44:54.100
is all about these dark networks. of people who

01:44:54.100 --> 01:44:58.159
prey on kids online and they seduce them to commit

01:44:58.159 --> 01:45:00.680
self -harm. So everything from cutting all the

01:45:00.680 --> 01:45:03.039
way to the bone to carving their names in their

01:45:03.039 --> 01:45:07.659
bodies and then committing suicide. And then

01:45:07.659 --> 01:45:12.699
how this branches into pedophilia and zoophilia,

01:45:12.819 --> 01:45:16.300
which is sex with animals and animal abuse, torture,

01:45:16.439 --> 01:45:19.520
murder. And then how they recruit mass shooters

01:45:19.520 --> 01:45:24.270
and mass killers. within these networks. So,

01:45:24.310 --> 01:45:27.229
I mean, you know, these are things that I believe

01:45:27.229 --> 01:45:30.069
are very, very important that need to be exposed.

01:45:30.270 --> 01:45:34.310
And as long as I'm able to keep doing my job

01:45:34.310 --> 01:45:37.090
as a journalist, which is really what I was built

01:45:37.090 --> 01:45:42.270
for, then I have a degree of peace and happiness

01:45:42.270 --> 01:45:45.829
in my life. And, of course, nobody owns me, right?

01:45:45.869 --> 01:45:48.010
I'm not answerable to anyone as long as I'm...

01:45:48.510 --> 01:45:50.630
As long as I don't sort of build up a dependency,

01:45:50.970 --> 01:45:54.010
you know, some people are so dependent on Instagram

01:45:54.010 --> 01:45:57.149
or YouTube or whatever that they can't, they

01:45:57.149 --> 01:45:59.170
don't feel that they have a choice. When you're

01:45:59.170 --> 01:46:04.069
stripped of everything, you truly are set free.

01:46:04.430 --> 01:46:07.569
And I think that people recognize that and they

01:46:07.569 --> 01:46:11.250
value that. So I don't regret what happened.

01:46:11.710 --> 01:46:15.329
to me at all i learned a lot and through my learning

01:46:15.329 --> 01:46:17.050
i've been able to share that with people and

01:46:17.050 --> 01:46:20.829
open a lot of people's eyes i miss my team i

01:46:20.829 --> 01:46:26.779
miss the the great work that we did um but Look

01:46:26.779 --> 01:46:29.640
at what has happened to the media. I mean, you

01:46:29.640 --> 01:46:32.420
know, I would never, ever want to be part of

01:46:32.420 --> 01:46:34.960
something that interviews Bill Gates and doesn't

01:46:34.960 --> 01:46:37.939
ask him about all the kids in India and Sudan

01:46:37.939 --> 01:46:42.439
who were sterilized or disabled because of the

01:46:42.439 --> 01:46:44.939
poison that he was pushing into their bodies.

01:46:45.159 --> 01:46:47.819
Or to, you know, to put Chris Krebs as the head

01:46:47.819 --> 01:46:51.619
of CISA on television after the 2020 election

01:46:51.619 --> 01:46:55.890
and get him to rub a stamp, the theft of... an

01:46:55.890 --> 01:46:59.369
entire election and help to cover it up i mean

01:46:59.369 --> 01:47:02.590
that's disgusting yeah that's absolutely disgusting

01:47:02.590 --> 01:47:05.970
and to and to not care what are you when you

01:47:05.970 --> 01:47:10.270
don't care that uh january 6 defendants are in

01:47:10.270 --> 01:47:12.810
solitary confinement without even being charged

01:47:12.810 --> 01:47:15.869
and you don't think that you as a news broadcast

01:47:15.869 --> 01:47:18.729
have a responsibility to know the truth yeah

01:47:18.729 --> 01:47:21.840
and but you you know I mean, I just would never

01:47:21.840 --> 01:47:24.500
have been part of the propaganda. And so I think

01:47:24.500 --> 01:47:27.100
God spared me from that. I didn't have to make

01:47:27.100 --> 01:47:30.100
a decision. I didn't have to be noble and give

01:47:30.100 --> 01:47:32.699
up everything because I got, you know, I got

01:47:32.699 --> 01:47:37.399
tossed into a wall and obliterated, right? And

01:47:37.399 --> 01:47:40.020
then I had to pick up the pieces and that wasn't.

01:47:40.479 --> 01:47:42.859
um a choice you know there was no question i

01:47:42.859 --> 01:47:45.220
was just going to keep on trucking but you know

01:47:45.220 --> 01:47:48.739
so so i just if you really want to know the thing

01:47:48.739 --> 01:47:52.180
is about cancel culture is it's nothing it's

01:47:52.180 --> 01:47:55.779
a road map to people who are who are honest and

01:47:55.779 --> 01:47:58.699
who are in the fight for the right reasons don't

01:47:58.699 --> 01:48:02.579
give them time don't give them attention that

01:48:02.579 --> 01:48:05.579
they don't deserve Understand it for what it

01:48:05.579 --> 01:48:09.279
is. Use it to help you have discernment in figuring

01:48:09.279 --> 01:48:12.180
out what the truth is. But these people truly

01:48:12.180 --> 01:48:15.460
don't matter to me anymore. You know, I let go

01:48:15.460 --> 01:48:19.020
my hatred. I let go my anger. They're nothing

01:48:19.020 --> 01:48:22.119
to me. And they're nothing because we have an

01:48:22.119 --> 01:48:26.880
urgent mission or struggle on our hands, right?

01:48:26.979 --> 01:48:31.039
I have to fight for real journalism. I have to

01:48:31.039 --> 01:48:32.939
fight for that so that people even know what

01:48:32.939 --> 01:48:35.479
that is. People don't even know what that is.

01:48:35.520 --> 01:48:38.039
They think that activism is the same as journalism,

01:48:38.239 --> 01:48:41.479
and it's not. My boss told me once, you're not

01:48:41.479 --> 01:48:43.680
a lawyer in a court of law. You don't have to

01:48:43.680 --> 01:48:47.119
prove a case. You're not an activist, you know,

01:48:47.180 --> 01:48:50.159
that's fighting for a cause. You are a journalist.

01:48:50.579 --> 01:48:54.020
And if it's true, don't force it. The facts will

01:48:54.020 --> 01:48:57.079
come. You will find them. You will find the evidence.

01:48:57.180 --> 01:49:00.739
You will be able to show the truth. But don't

01:49:00.739 --> 01:49:03.600
force it. And these were invaluable lessons that

01:49:03.600 --> 01:49:06.140
need to be passed on. So the one thing that I

01:49:06.140 --> 01:49:09.060
would urge people to do is don't accept that

01:49:09.060 --> 01:49:11.739
journalism itself is dead. It only is dead if

01:49:11.739 --> 01:49:14.859
we let it die. You know, I would also say to

01:49:14.859 --> 01:49:16.600
other journalists out there, because there are

01:49:16.600 --> 01:49:19.880
great journalists and great producers. There's

01:49:19.880 --> 01:49:23.260
a young journalist, Taylor Kramer. He has a site

01:49:23.260 --> 01:49:25.760
called RGV Truth. You know, these are journalists

01:49:25.760 --> 01:49:27.640
that are coming up in this new world and they

01:49:27.640 --> 01:49:29.899
don't have any guidance. You know, they don't

01:49:29.899 --> 01:49:31.840
know what are the legal decisions, the ethical

01:49:31.840 --> 01:49:34.659
decisions that they should be making. So we need

01:49:34.659 --> 01:49:37.439
to provide that as an industry. We need to build

01:49:37.439 --> 01:49:39.520
new institutions because our old institutions

01:49:39.520 --> 01:49:42.500
have failed us. The National Press Club, you

01:49:42.500 --> 01:49:45.659
know, all of these, Columbia Journalism School,

01:49:45.899 --> 01:49:48.819
these places have failed journalism. They should

01:49:48.819 --> 01:49:52.420
be ashamed of themselves. And so who's going

01:49:52.420 --> 01:49:54.609
to rebuild that? Who's going to fight for that

01:49:54.609 --> 01:49:56.890
if we don't fight for it? Like if doctors don't

01:49:56.890 --> 01:50:00.630
fight to save the medical profession, who's going

01:50:00.630 --> 01:50:04.109
to fight for it? They're the ones who are most

01:50:04.109 --> 01:50:06.409
equipped to do that because they know what you're

01:50:06.409 --> 01:50:08.510
supposed to do when you put medicine and patients

01:50:08.510 --> 01:50:12.710
first and money and big pharma second and politics

01:50:12.710 --> 01:50:15.069
and your career and the other things that shouldn't

01:50:15.069 --> 01:50:19.010
factor into it, right? So I just would urge people

01:50:19.010 --> 01:50:26.010
to... not to accept poor quality as a replacement

01:50:26.010 --> 01:50:29.289
for all forms of journalism. Sometimes, you know,

01:50:29.329 --> 01:50:31.449
it's not going to be up to scratch and it's more

01:50:31.449 --> 01:50:33.909
important to get the truth, but we can't cede

01:50:33.909 --> 01:50:37.550
that ground of high quality investigative journalism

01:50:37.550 --> 01:50:40.329
and just give up on it. We have to invest in

01:50:40.329 --> 01:50:42.590
that and we have to invest in young reporters.

01:50:42.909 --> 01:50:46.710
I think also listening to your story, your journey

01:50:46.710 --> 01:50:50.689
and the other stories that we've heard, I love

01:50:50.689 --> 01:50:53.800
your resilience. They kept smacking you down,

01:50:53.920 --> 01:50:56.659
smacking you down, punching you just, but you're

01:50:56.659 --> 01:51:00.000
a fighter. And even though, you know, you didn't

01:51:00.000 --> 01:51:02.819
necessarily fight back in terms of like legally

01:51:02.819 --> 01:51:05.699
this or that, you fought back by using your voice,

01:51:05.800 --> 01:51:08.859
by continuing to use your voice and not letting

01:51:08.859 --> 01:51:11.699
them silence you. And now that you have your

01:51:11.699 --> 01:51:13.619
own show, of course, yes, there's a little bit

01:51:13.619 --> 01:51:15.420
of censorship that you might need to do on this.

01:51:15.770 --> 01:51:17.909
But you're still, for the most part, saying everything

01:51:17.909 --> 01:51:20.850
and anything you want and need to say, which

01:51:20.850 --> 01:51:23.649
is you stepping back into your power. And like

01:51:23.649 --> 01:51:25.529
you said a few minutes ago, not caring about

01:51:25.529 --> 01:51:29.210
what anybody thinks about you anymore. No. And

01:51:29.210 --> 01:51:32.090
I hope that more people hear that message and

01:51:32.090 --> 01:51:34.770
understand the less we care about what these

01:51:34.770 --> 01:51:37.970
people say about us, the more of us are going

01:51:37.970 --> 01:51:41.210
to be able to step into our power and our voices

01:51:41.210 --> 01:51:44.630
will be heard if there are more of us. using

01:51:44.630 --> 01:51:47.090
them like they should be using. So I wanted to

01:51:47.090 --> 01:51:50.930
thank you and just say how amazing you are for

01:51:50.930 --> 01:51:54.130
not backing down no matter how many times they

01:51:54.130 --> 01:51:57.069
tried to silence you and shut you up. You came

01:51:57.069 --> 01:52:00.409
back stronger and stronger and stronger. So I

01:52:00.409 --> 01:52:02.829
wanted to thank you for that. And I think I have

01:52:02.829 --> 01:52:06.909
maybe a bigger crush on Lara than I did before

01:52:06.909 --> 01:52:09.770
this. And I still have a big crush on you, too.

01:52:10.329 --> 01:52:13.189
But not in a gay way. I probably talk too much,

01:52:13.189 --> 01:52:15.590
and you two are very kind for listening to me.

01:52:16.430 --> 01:52:18.409
But I got to tell you, this is what it really

01:52:18.409 --> 01:52:21.670
comes down to. When you know that there are children

01:52:21.670 --> 01:52:24.909
that have come across the southern border, for

01:52:24.909 --> 01:52:28.170
example, that are two, three, four years old,

01:52:28.210 --> 01:52:30.250
that have been taken from their families, very

01:52:30.250 --> 01:52:33.210
often sold, and they're coming here to be raped

01:52:33.210 --> 01:52:36.189
until they die, and the people telling you that

01:52:36.189 --> 01:52:38.930
they're better than you, And that they care so

01:52:38.930 --> 01:52:42.069
much about the border. And that's why, you know,

01:52:42.069 --> 01:52:43.869
they care so much about these kids. That's why

01:52:43.869 --> 01:52:46.470
Trump and kids in cages and all that stuff. And

01:52:46.470 --> 01:52:48.649
now why you've got protests. These are the same

01:52:48.649 --> 01:52:51.869
people. So what you realize is that they don't

01:52:51.869 --> 01:52:56.489
care at all. But I care. That's the thing that

01:52:56.489 --> 01:53:00.069
drives me and keeps me going. And I guess I probably

01:53:00.069 --> 01:53:03.689
am resilient. But I'm resilient because I'm not

01:53:03.689 --> 01:53:07.310
thinking about those things. I'm focused on the

01:53:07.310 --> 01:53:10.229
fact that I have a responsibility. I have the

01:53:10.229 --> 01:53:12.850
ability to let people know what the truth is.

01:53:12.989 --> 01:53:16.369
And I trust them. I trust that there will be

01:53:16.369 --> 01:53:18.810
enough people who will stand up and do the right

01:53:18.810 --> 01:53:21.689
thing. I really do think so. I think that people

01:53:21.689 --> 01:53:24.350
want the truth and they gravitate towards the

01:53:24.350 --> 01:53:27.529
truth. But there are a lot of people who lack

01:53:27.529 --> 01:53:30.689
moral courage because they're afraid of what

01:53:30.689 --> 01:53:33.409
they're going to lose. And I'm not sure that

01:53:33.409 --> 01:53:36.079
they've... I really face the reality that all

01:53:36.079 --> 01:53:38.279
those things they're trying to hold on to, those

01:53:38.279 --> 01:53:43.680
things are gone. If we don't have an honest media

01:53:43.680 --> 01:53:46.739
and we don't have real accountability in this

01:53:46.739 --> 01:53:49.560
country and we don't deal with facts and not,

01:53:49.619 --> 01:53:53.619
you know, presented as facts, not opinion dressed

01:53:53.619 --> 01:53:55.659
up as facts, if we don't fight for these things,

01:53:55.819 --> 01:53:59.520
we lose it all. We really do. We lose it all.

01:53:59.899 --> 01:54:04.779
And we owe our children more than that. We owe

01:54:04.779 --> 01:54:06.960
their children more than that. You know what

01:54:06.960 --> 01:54:09.399
I mean? That's a common theme that many of our

01:54:09.399 --> 01:54:11.720
guests have said. You have to do it. Even if

01:54:11.720 --> 01:54:13.399
you're going to be unsuccessful in fighting for

01:54:13.399 --> 01:54:15.659
your own cause, we must do it for the children.

01:54:15.819 --> 01:54:18.060
We must do it for the future. We must do it so

01:54:18.060 --> 01:54:21.560
the bullies will say, well, there's easier other

01:54:21.560 --> 01:54:25.159
paths to take. Well, if you hold on to your soul,

01:54:25.319 --> 01:54:29.100
no matter what they took from you, you won. Sure,

01:54:29.180 --> 01:54:33.039
absolutely. That's a beautiful... Way to close

01:54:33.039 --> 01:54:35.020
the episode. Thank you so much for your time.

01:54:35.159 --> 01:54:37.060
You're the best. Wish you all the luck in the

01:54:37.060 --> 01:54:39.159
world. Tell us where they can find your show.

01:54:39.880 --> 01:54:42.439
You can find Going Rogue with Lara Logan. You

01:54:42.439 --> 01:54:46.520
can find it on YouTube for now, on Rumble, on

01:54:46.520 --> 01:54:50.539
X, on laralogan .com, Spotify, pretty much anywhere.

01:54:51.039 --> 01:54:54.239
And Shorts on Instagram. Shorts on Instagram.

01:54:54.300 --> 01:54:56.279
And I'm sure there's places to follow you as

01:54:56.279 --> 01:54:59.159
well. Yes, I finally got someone who understands

01:54:59.159 --> 01:55:02.960
Instagram who can help me do that. Thank you

01:55:02.960 --> 01:55:05.300
so much. Have a beautiful day. Thank you. Thank

01:55:05.300 --> 01:55:07.399
you, both of you. Take care. Okay. Thank you.