I spoke to someone who's a real specialist in
information warfare and he said, oh yeah, of
course he's gone. Let me tell you what happens.
They show up at your door in the middle of the
night. They've got masks on probably. There's
a bunch of them. One of them comes to the door.
He's very friendly and smiling. And he says,
basically, it's the equivalent of you're lying
in the dirt. They've got their foot on your throat
and they offer you a hand up. The hand up is
you take it. or we're going to hurt your child,
or you take your hand and you're going to be
okay. I am so excited to have Laura Logan on
the show. I'm absolutely titillated. I want to
start with a confession. I'm going to be confessing
something I've never shared with anybody before.
I had a little bit of a crush on you a long time
ago. I was a regular 60 Minutes watcher. We didn't
have TiVo or anything like that, so I'd have
to tune in on Sunday. I was hoping that you would
have some sort of journalism on that show. Look
how she's very beautiful. You're the cutest thing
and so talented, and I just really loved it when
you were on air. Thank you. Well, I had a crush
on her too, but not in a gay way. Oh, did you?
It was a role model type of crush. Oh, I can
see that for sure. I was always mesmerized by
you, always. How did you, just take me back,
I'm just curious, because you were like a superstar
at a very young age. I mean, how did you even
get on, what was your career trajectory to get
onto 60 Minutes? This is the highest level of
journalism that you could probably attain, I
would think. How did that happen? Yes. Well,
it really started in South Africa when I was
in high school, and I I heard a speech that was
given by a journalist. She came to our school
and she spoke to us honestly about extra -parliamentary
political activity for women. And at the end,
I went up to her, you know, to talk to her because
I said, you know, I want to be a journalist.
And she said, well, why don't you come work at
the paper? You can, you know, volunteer. And
I did. And it was a classic newsroom, news editor
with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth, pockmarked,
acne face, and every second word was, you know,
F this and F that. So, but I had kind of a baptism
of fire and I was given a chance. I mean, it
wasn't easy. There were a lot of people who didn't
like the fact that there was, you know, a young
girl walking through the newsroom and everyone
in the sports department apparently would stop
doing their work because I got the complaints
and I had to deal with that. But I worked. all
through university all through college i kept
working i just went to the college and i said
you know i went to the newspaper the biggest
daily newspaper and i said you don't have anyone
my age working for you you need young readers
let me work for you and here's you know here's
all the stories i wrote and got published when
i was in high school And that was pretty much
how I did it the whole way through. You know,
when I knew I wanted to go into television and
I wanted to be in the foreign media because South
Africa was a big story at the time internationally.
I just, I got the Foreign Association, you know,
Correspondence Association handbook and I worked
my way through it. And I just, I showed up on
people's doors and said, hire me. And then, you
know, one of the things that I did to kind of
prove myself is often in those environments.
um things just start happening and i would always
just pitch in so i never waited i never asked
uh you know i never waited to be asked to help
i just thought like when i went to cnn to go
and talk to them about getting a job and the
phone started ringing and people were busy i
started answering the phones you know and um
that always ended up getting me hired somehow
the worst job interview i only ever did one job
interview in my whole life and it was for british
television and they asked me which of the correspondents
on their show, on their morning news program,
I liked. I'd never watched their news program.
I knew who they were, you know, because I'd worked
alongside various people over the years. But
I only knew one person that had ever reported
there. And I said, well, you know, and I named
that person. They said, who else? And I was like,
I walked out of there. I thought, I am definitely
not getting that job. And I do not deserve to
get it. And lo and behold, I actually got that
job. So how did I get there? Well, very much,
you know, I got there by putting myself in the
right position. I got there by focusing on the
things that mattered. And I got there by being
bold, I guess, in a way. But I just understood
that I needed to be a real journalist, to have
something of value to offer. I needed to be and
see there and witness things firsthand. I needed
to understand. I couldn't take someone else's
word for it. I couldn't be, you know, 12 miles
back from the front. at lines in afghanistan
and pretend that i knew what was happening on
the front line i had to be on the front line
and you know remarkably few people actually are
willing to do that some will do it for a moment
you know for a time but i went you know i wanted
to see it through so i went and lived with afghan
troops in afghanistan during the war first war
with the taliban and um And I was staying a few
miles back where most of the journalists were,
and I realized after a couple nights, this isn't
working. I can't wake up in the morning and not
know what they bombed in the night. So I went
and lived with the Afghan soldiers. And sometimes,
you know, people were willing to do that, and
sometimes they weren't. But for me, it was never
about, like, when I was home, I could have a
hot meal. If I really needed to sit on a toilet
or sleep in a bed or do it that badly, then I
figured I was in the wrong job, you know? So
I just didn't worry about that. And there was
a correspondent once, Steve Harrigan from Fox
News. And, you know, we didn't associate a whole
lot with Fox News when they started. We thought
they were crazy because they were politically
defined. Who are these people? And I was so shocked
that anyone would think that you have a conservative
viewpoint because I was like, what do they mean?
We're biased. I didn't understand that because
it never even occurred to me that there was any
bias. And so I was friends with this correspondent
and we were in Afghanistan. He was the only other
person there on the front line, him and his cameraman,
Joel. And we hadn't bathed, you know, or eaten
really in a while. And he said, you know, I spoke
to my brother -in -law this morning and he said,
you are so lucky. And he said, I thought about
that. And what does he mean? I'm so lucky. Like,
you know, this is as rough as it gets and we're
being bombed and, you know, and so on every night.
And he said, then it hit me. I really am lucky
to be here. And that made me think, yes, there's
nowhere else in the world I'd rather be right
now. So I stopped thinking about the next meal
or, you know, a clean bed or what it would be
like to bathe. You know, I stopped thinking about
things that really didn't matter very much. I
just realized that I needed not to focus on things
that didn't matter and focus on the things that
did matter. And, you know, when you're in that
situation, Just your basic survival is pretty
time consuming because you don't necessarily
have power. You don't necessarily have food.
You don't necessarily have toilet paper. You
know, that kind of thing. How am I going to wash
my hair? I am on television. When are we moving
to the front? What's happening with the battle?
And how do I keep producing content? You know,
well, not content. That's sort of a buzzword
for modern. you know day social media more it's
like what's my next story what is important here
that i need to be communicating and how do i
capture that and then of course i was on my own
and i was in television so i had a lot of um
I had a lot of logistics to deal with on a daily
basis. And I just, I learned how to flip the
switch, you know, which was, I always tell my
children, my children would say, Mom, I'm hungry.
Mom, I'm cold. You know, when you're somewhere
where you can't meet their immediate needs, you
just say, I say to them, come on, flip the switch.
Like, just think how lucky we are to be here
right now for this reason. Yeah. I mean, sometimes
it works. Sometimes it doesn't. It always works
for me because I have a very singular minded,
like I know why I'm here. I know what I'm meant
to do. And I just focus on that. And fortunately,
you know, I found good people along the way who
were who also cared about that, who cared about
the journalism more than. than the stardom or,
you know, just finding like -minded people with
real principles who were focused on the task
at hand and then making it happen. And I never
thought about, honestly, I never thought about
what I looked like. I mean, obviously I would,
you know, try to stay clean and do my makeup
in the morning, but then I'd go out and do my
job, you know, and I just, I focused on, I think,
the things that really mattered. And I took opportunities
where I could find them. I created opportunities
where I could. You know, on a Saturday night
when I was at the newspaper and I was 17, there
was a lot of violence in South Africa at the
time. And I volunteered for all the jobs none
of the other journalists wanted to do because
they had families, they had lives. This was a
career for them. For me, it was the beginning
of something of my whole life and everything
that I cared about. And so when they said...
you know i said i'll stay on a saturday night
and get the first edition of the paper and go
and deliver it to we would deliver it to the
fire station the morgue the hospital and the
police and that's because there was no this is
1988 right there's no internet at that time so
how did you make contacts how did you learn how
did you find out what was going on you couldn't
google anything so you went down you talked to
the guy overnight in the police station and you
made friends and hopefully he would tell you
how many people you know they how many bodies
they picked up and how they were killed and whatever
and you then you go to the morgue and you know
talk to the guy at the morgue and get him to
do the same thing and then get when he got friendly
with me he'd let me see the bodies you know and
then you could talk about well how did this person
die and then when they came out the next day
and said this many people died you were like
no that's not true and you knew because i knew
because i saw the bodies with my own eyes and
so i learned the value of first -hand reporting
and i learned the value of relationships and
i i I guess I learned a lot from the way that
I came up through the industry, and I just put
the craft before anything else, and it worked.
So what did you get on 60 Minutes? Was that your
big break? What year was that? Well, you know,
I spent a couple of years trying to get a job
at CNN because I thought that was the perfect
mix of hard news, but also television, because
I'd been working for a news agency for many years.
And the frustrating thing with news agencies
is you don't control your end product. So you
control the inputs, but people can take your
product and do whatever they want with it. And
I wanted, you know, to create the final product
as well. So CNN seemed like a great place to
do that because I had hard news skills from working
at an agency. But I ended up. having a fight
with my boss. And he was really rude to me. So
I slammed the newsroom door as hard as I could,
hoping the window would shatter. And it didn't,
fortunately. And I left. I turned my back on
a place that was really an incredible home for
many, many years in South Africa and great people.
And I got on a plane to London. I flew from South
Africa to London and I knocked on doors and I
got a couple of freelance jobs at the networks.
And I ended up... Working at ABC News for a few
years on the news desk, which was torture. I
got to say, I used about one one hundredth of
my abilities. I'd been running at that point.
I'd been running quite a big news agency, news
gathering operation for television for the whole
of Southern Africa and going into East and West
Africa. And and so it was to come and work on
a news newsroom news desk overnight in London
was. was really quite a test of endurance. But
I learned from there too, you know? And I just
took opportunities that came my way. When the
second intifada happened in the Palestinian territories
and Israel, I... I found out from a friend that
a British TV station was looking for a local
journalist to hire. So I'm in London, but I called
them and said, oh, I'm just visiting friends
in London. Yes, I live in Jerusalem. And yes,
I'd be happy to be your correspondent. And I
slept on my friend's couch. So, you know, there
were a lot of things like that along the way.
But I ended up working at CBS News. And I was
actually I was working for British television.
But CBS Radio asked me to do some reporting for
them because I was the only person. that was
living on, there was one other journalist, Steve
Harrigan from Fox, but I was living on the front
line in Afghanistan during the US bombing campaign
on my own, and they didn't have anyone. So I
started reporting for CBS radio, which ended
up being reporting for CBS television. And then
I went and met the boss of 60 Minutes. Because
once, you know, my war coverage really stood
out, because honestly, just because I was right
there. And I think that I had a lot more information
that was of value than people who were miles
away. And a lot of people were surprised to see
a girl like me showing up in a place like that.
So what's a nice girl like you doing in a place
like this? My job. So I ended up meeting with
the executive producer of 60 Minutes, and I was
on the verge of signing a contract with NBC.
And, you know, they promised me all kinds of
things. I even got tickets to Paul McCartney
at Madison Square Gardens to try and sweeten
the deal. But it was no question when I got offered
a job at 60 Minutes 2 at the time that that was
where I wanted to be. And I, you know, I didn't
look back. It was 16 years later. I was chief
foreign correspondent and full -time correspondent
at 60 Minutes and all of that until I got canceled.
Yeah, let's talk about Benghazi. Is that the
show we're going to talk about? Yep, that was
it. That was it. So educate our audience a little
bit. What's Benghazi all about? Libya, some crazy
stuff that happened, and you were accused of
some faulty reporting, I believe. That's what
happened? Yeah. Tell us what happened. Share
with us. Well, you know, I think what happened
to me is that I was living in Iraq for five years.
You know, I spent most of my time away from the
center of power, if you like, in the United States.
And I kind of stuck to stories. I didn't really
report on American politics because I didn't
feel qualified. You know, I wasn't American.
I hadn't grown up in America. And I just really
thought that that was better served by people
who knew more than I did. So I focused on the
stories that... were more challenging for most
people right most people don't want to do most
people don't want to live with afghan soldiers
for months at a time and um and so i but i did
and i was good at it and i grew up in africa
and i knew how to survive in those kind of environments
it really didn't bother me very much and so i
i it wasn't until i was pulled out of iraq after
living there for five years and cbs brought me
to the united states and then Then I kind of
got a baptism of fire in the corridors of power
in America and in American media. So I had been
very happily and somewhat naively trucking along.
doing my own thing, doing the stories that I
believed in, and receiving awards and recognition
for them, and rising through the ranks at CBS,
even though there were a lot of people who made
that very difficult. And there were some great
people who made it happen. But then, once I was
in the United States, now I'm living in Washington,
D .C. And now I'm really at a level where people
are paying attention. Like, I'll give you an
example. I am six months pregnant. My phone rings
in the D .C. office. I pick up the phone. It's
my landline. And there's a voice on the other
end that says, hey, Lara, how you doing? And
it's I don't even know who this person is. Turns
out to be David Axelrod, you know, who is working
with Obama. And he's like, the boss is this is
when Obama was running for office. Boss is going
to Afghanistan. And how would you like an exclusive?
I should have known then. When I heard those
words come out of his mouth, that it was a bad
sign because nobody offers you anything in this
business, in my experience, right? I had to fight
for it. Every story I did. And when you do get
off at something, it's probably for the wrong
reasons. But I didn't I naively thought, oh,
wow. OK, yes. I mean, who would say no to that?
And if I went to Afghanistan, I was pregnant
and I did a good interview with Obama and it
went everywhere and all that. But what I realized
years later was I was selected because he didn't
have any foreign policy credentials in that campaign.
He hadn't been abroad. And that was a weakness
for him. And so they used me. to give him the
credentials that he didn't have. And I didn't
understand how the media worked at that time.
I was very genuine, and I worked really hard,
and we all did, I thought. And then what happened
is I realized, because I started winning more
and more awards, and I had a much bigger platform
I was taking. I became full -time at 60 Minutes,
and I was taking on a bigger role and a bigger
voice. and there was a little problem and it's
called real journalism because i did things like
follow for two and a half years i followed the
battlefield reports from afghanistan and i realized
that when obama was going out and he was saying
that al -qaeda was on the run and al -qaeda was
defeated and he and the head of the cia was saying
that there were only a couple hundred less than
200 or something like that al -qaeda left in
the world and i was like what are they talking
about because I was still reading the battlefield
reports every day. Coming out of that place where
I had lived for a year and spent many, many,
many more months, many more trips reporting.
I was like, this is not true. Why would they
be doing this? I mean, I really thought the Bushes,
the Cheneys, all those people were bad. And when
Obama came in, I thought, OK, here's the second
coming of Christ. Right. We've got someone who's
actually going to tell the truth about what's
happening on the battlefield, who's going to
do the right thing for the right reasons. And
what I learned was that that wasn't true at all
in any way, shape or form. And so there was not
only the deceit, there was a sense of betrayal.
But that didn't motivate me. I mean, I was interested
in the truth. And if there was a threat from
Islamic terrorism, I didn't want to be lied to
about it. And so when I added up the number of
al -Qaeda that were killed and injured on the
battlefield on a daily or weekly or monthly basis,
it dwarfed the number that they said existed
in the world. So I did what I always did. I got
people on the ground. We got people inside a
suicide bomber training camp. We got them training
kids how to kill American soldiers. And we showed
that they were lying. And I think that's the
story that really got the target on my back.
So it didn't help that I was doing Benghazi.
There's another red flag with Benghazi. This
was real journalism. So you did real journalism.
Yes. And you know what the response was to that
story when it came out? They banned all battlefield
reporting. Wow. So they just stopped doing those
reports because it exposed them. So when I did
the Benghazi story, you know, I should have known
that. there was something not quite right. Because
you had such a big issue happen with Benghazi.
You had a United States ambassador, Chris Stevens,
was the first American ambassador who was killed
in more than half a century. And Benghazi flared
when it happened, and then it kind of died. And
it didn't make a whole lot of sense that there
wouldn't be a team at 60 Minutes that wasn't
really pursuing that story because it's a natural
kind of story. I mean, not only did Chris Stevens
die, but you lost Glenn Daugherty and Tyrone
Woods. So you had two special operators who were
killed working for the CIA as part of, you know,
GRS, which was their protective security service
that the CIA uses abroad. You had Islamic terrorist
elements and you had a big scandal. So that's
got all the elements for what the question is,
what really happened in Benghazi? It didn't make
sense that the Obama administration didn't send
in anyone to save these guys. And then I was
at my, strangely enough, my daughter's christening.
And we had a party at our house after the christening
at the National Cathedral in Washington, D .C.
And I got a friend come up to me and say he'd
just come back from Fort Bragg, North Carolina.
And he had a message for me from someone of significance
who I can't say who. And this person said, you
know, you want to look at the two guys that we
had on the ground in Benghazi. Because if it
weren't for them, we would have had the worst
hostage crisis. in American history, and certainly
since the Iranian hostage crisis. Now that got
my attention. As you know, there was no mention
of Obama or Hillary or Democrat or Republican.
This was a story that was, you know, a tip that
came to me that said, we were in real trouble.
What really happened is not known. And when you
find out the details, you're going to, you won't
believe it. So I started to investigate. And
what I learned was that we had two operators
for Delta Force on the ground in Libya whose
job was to collect all of these weapons, many
of which had been supplied to the Libyans by
the United States, and they wanted these weapons
gone. Now, this is not uncommon. We have units
and we have entities within the United States
government, especially under the Defense Intelligence
Agency and Department of Defense, whose job it
is to track weapons that are made in the U .S.
or sold by the U .S. and so on. And what was
the issue here was that these two gentlemen,
when they heard Chris Stevens under attack, they
went all around the embassy in Tripoli, the capital
of Libya, and they collected money from the people,
the staff, and they hired a small plane, and
they flew down to Benghazi. And they were the
ones who contacted a local militia because when
you have special operators, they rely heavily
on local alliances because they don't come with
force and with numbers. They come with speciality,
right? Special skills. And they got this local
militia and they were the ones that got that
militia to go and retrieve Chris Stevens's body
from the hospital. And they were the ones that
fought their way to the CIA annex and rescued.
the remaining Americans who were still alive,
and brought back the bodies of Glenn Daugherty
and Tyrone Woods. And not once were they ordered
by anyone in their chain of command. Not once
did an order come from Washington, D .C. These
guys went on their own steam. And if it were
not for them, the hundreds and hundreds of al
-Qaeda operatives and Islamic terrorists that
had surrounded the annex could possibly have
overwhelmed the annex. Now that... is a phenomenal
story by anybody's standards. Because nobody
even knew that these two guys were involved in
Benghazi. And how was I able to verify the details?
Well, because they were both up for medals. Now,
one of them, his branch of service when he went
into the army was already Navy. So he got the
Navy cross. And the other one got the Silver
Star. If these two guys, if this had not been
a political event, they would have been up for
the Medal of Honor. But you can't give them the
Medal of Honor when you've got Hillary Clinton
has already said, what difference would it make,
right? Everybody, there's been a furore over
what really happened in Benghazi and nobody knows
the truth. So this was a fascinating story for
me. This was something really important. And
about six months into that investigation. I got
contacted by a woman at CBS who deals with books
because we had an office. Neil Armstrong writes
a book. Who does he want? 60 Minutes. You want
to sell your book? You go to 60 Minutes. I never
got any of those stories because I was low down
in the pecking order. I had people, giants like
Ed Bradley and Mike Wallace and Morley Safer
ahead of me. You know, and you think these people.
You think I had any say I was going to get a
layup like that? Here's a great story. Go do
it. No, I had to go and live in the, you know,
and walk through sewage canals and live in the
trenches and come up with my own reporting. So
I didn't mind that. I actually liked that. But
when we, you know, one after another, these Benghazi
books started popping up and they were being
thrown at me. And I, you know, a couple of them.
were just nonsense. I later found out that, you
know, one was actually just a made up narrative
by Clinton allies that was meant to be disinformation
and lead us astray. But I didn't fall for any
of that. But the one book that we got was from
a guy, a British security contractor who had
been hired by the State Department. He'd been
vetted by the State Department, and he was responsible
for the perimeter, the outer security at Benghazi.
And so we started talking to him and his co -author
of the book. And this turned out later to be
a Simon & Schuster book, but that had nothing
to do with it at the time. And he was the only
person in our story who had been on the ground.
and actually witnessed as an eyewitness and you
know of course with reporting a first -hand witness
first -hand source is always better than a second
-hand source and so that's what drew us to his
story and we we vetted him extensively we got
copies of his military records from his unit
in the uk we got photocopies of the stamps in
his passport that showed that he was in Libya
when he said he was in Libya, that he actually
went to Benghazi. We got photographs of him on
the ground. We verified him with the State Department.
We did absolutely everything that we could. But
the one thing... that we agreed to do was sign
an NDA, which was written by CBS's attorneys.
It was a standard NDA. CBS had two NDAs that
they would use frequently. And in that NDA, we
agreed that we would not reveal the contents
of the book and his story about what happened
that night of the attack to anyone outside of
our bosses at 60 Minutes for the purpose of deciding
whether or not we would do the story with him.
So this was something That we took very seriously.
And it was really quite amazing. Because in the
end, when they came after us for our poor reporting,
this is what they attacked. Is that we hadn't
vetted his story. And I looked at my boss and
I was like, huh? Did he deceive you at the end
of the day? Did he deceive you? Well, they came
out. The thing is, this guy told us that when
the attack happened. He was at his apartment
because he lived in the city of Benghazi. He
didn't live at the special mission compound.
And that he had gone there to check on his friends.
And that he hadn't been able to get near because
the fires were raging and so on and so on. And
all the roads were blocked and he described everything
that he saw. And then he went to the hospital
and he says he saw Chris Stevens' body. There's
a whole lot more detail and I won't go into it
because it's already a long story. But then he
says he goes back to his... apartment and some
more of his guys because he trained all these
local security guys and he's very close to them
and he gets a phone call by the way from one
of the state department regional security officers
who says to him this is what we talked about
our worst nightmare has come to fruition And
exactly what we feared is happening and we're
all going to die. And he tells us about this
bond that he has with this guy and how, you know,
they agreed they would always come to each other's
rescue if they ever needed it. And so he's just
wrestling with himself. And when his guys show
up, he goes back for a second time. And this
is when he says he scaled over the wall using
some construction. And he looks around. He can't
find anyone, can't find any Americans. Someone
spots him. He hides in a dog kennel. And then
this guy. you know, calls him closer. He's getting
by with his limited Arabic and it's dark and
all the chaos. But then a guy starts to pay attention
to him and calls him over. And he and, you know,
he punches this guy in the face, runs and escapes.
That's it. And then the next day. So he goes
back to his his place and tell he doesn't tell
his boss that he went back there. He lies to
his boss and says, I stayed at the compound all
night. But in the morning on the way to the airport,
he goes by the compound again. He takes all of
the photographs. that actually provided the basis
for the FBI. Remember, the FBI took weeks to
go in, and he took all these photographs, which
were used as evidence in the Benghazi investigation
and in the prosecution, you know, certainly throughout
the investigations. And what they did to us was
they said that this guy was lying, not about
going the first time. not about going on his
way to the airport and taking all the photographs,
not about being there and seeing what he's seeing.
They said that he lied about scaling the wall
and essentially doing nothing, that he made up
that tale. He says, I didn't lie. He tells us
they produced, what they did is they ran a smear
campaign that was extremely efficient. It was
extremely well funded. It was run by elements
within the Obama administration, but also elements
without like media matters for america and they
went one by one by one to every reporter in dc
that they could reach and to every news outlet
and to everyone and they were shopping around
this document that they claimed was an after
-action report supposedly written by the security
company by this guy and the security company
he worked for that said he didn't go uh he he
went there the first time then he spent the night
at his place and he went back again the next
day And he never went on that second visit. And
he looked at this and he said to us, I've never,
this matches what I told my boss, but I never
wrote this. And I've never seen this report.
If that report was real, it would be classified.
But nobody cared about that. And this guy was
holding his ground saying, I've never seen it.
It's not, you know. And we went to the deputy.
Chris Stevens had a deputy ambassador, Greg Hicks.
We took this document to Greg Hicks. He said,
I've never seen that document in my life. And
by the way, it has a stamp on it that says U
.S. Embassy Benghazi. And we don't have a U .S.
Embassy in Benghazi. We have a special mission
compound, which is a whole nother legal entity.
And in diplomatic terms, it's a big deal. And
so he said to us, this document, you know, I
can't tell you it's for sure it's fake. But if
it was real. There's no reason I wouldn't have
seen it because I took over. Ten minutes into
the attack, Chris Stevens called Greg Hicks.
Greg Hicks was the last person to speak to Chris
Stevens when he was alive. And I believe the
real reason they went after our reporting was
because of what Greg Hicks said. When I asked
him about... whether they cried called for help
and he said of course and he said that that the
defense attache who for those of you who don't
know the defense attache is usually your top
spy in any embassy right he said i looked at
the defense attache and i said to him well and
he looked at me this is what gray hicks said
under oath when he testified before congress
and it's what he told us in our 60 minutes piece
he said i looked at this man and i I asked him,
well, and he said he looked at me and he said,
I'm sorry, Greg, but the cavalry ain't coming.
And he said, and that decision never changed.
So think about this. Ten minutes into the attack,
he asks, are we getting any help? The defense
attache says no. And he says that decision never
changed. And he said, you know, I felt sick in
the pit of my stomach because those of us. who
go out on the end of the line for our country,
we believe our country has our back. And in that
moment, I knew they didn't. And I looked at him
and I said, we got to tell the boys at the annex.
Now two of those boys at the annex died. that
night. So you imagine we've gone through all
of these hearings. We've gone through all of
this hand -wringing. And everybody's arguing
about, was it one attack? Was it two attacks?
Did they know the second one was coming? Could
they have done something? Could they have gotten
there fast enough? And so on and so on. And 10
minutes into the attack, that decision had already
been made. So the rest of it was all theater.
And if you look at what has happened since Benghazi,
We left Americans behind in Benghazi. If it weren't
for those two operators who I reported on, I
broke the news about them in my Benghazi report.
Right. No one would have known about that. That
was the first time that news was ever heard by
the American people. And we're talking about
it had been, you know, it had been more than
a year since Benghazi had happened. So they didn't
want that out. And they didn't want Greg Hicks
to talk. The sad thing about this, though, is.
What we didn't know until, you know, Trump came
out with fake news, we thought we were always
being told the truth. Correct. Meanwhile, what
you experience has been happening for a really,
really long time. I mean, you know, my mom was
born in Iran, and she used to tell me things
when I was young, like, you just don't know.
something else is going on you will never know
because the media will never tell you because
the CIA is in on it because blah blah blah and
I'd look at my mom and I'd come on mom really
you know like I didn't believe it until very
recently 2016 is when they started to slowly
open my eyes and it wasn't until 2020 until I
was wide awake so you're you're in it you're
on the ground thinking that your job is to do
real reporting real journalism meanwhile The
Obamas know what they did. They weren't going
to help anyone. They knew. And Hillary, by the
way, because Hillary was running for office.
And that was my big mistake, is that I underestimated
what that meant. I had never done a story for
a political reason. It never occurred to me to
do a story for a political reason, to hurt a
candidate or to help a candidate in an election.
I mean, what are you talking about? That story
was so damaging to Hillary Clinton because the
truth was that they did leave Americans behind.
They let Chris Stevens die. They let Tyrone Woods
die. They let Glenn Doherty die. And if it weren't
for those two operators who did everything on
their own, all of those Americans could potentially
have died. And they didn't want anybody finding
that out. Well, let's talk about your cancellation.
So you were basically roadkill, you know, in
effect. Somebody had another initiative, and
so whatever happens to Laura happens, and basically
you became the fall guy for all of this. They
had to retract your reporting. Somebody at CBS
was talking to somebody politically, and they
decided, you know what, we have to pull the story
back. It's not in their political best interest,
and Laura's career is going to be doomed. Is
that sort of like what happened? Sort of. I mean,
there's a couple things. One is that Ben Rhodes
was one of the chief architects of the fake story
that what happened in Benghazi was because of
a film. Do you remember that? Yeah. Because there
were protests in Egypt and other places. They
tried to say that all of this was about a film
that had been made that had upset the Islamic
world. And that was nonsense, right? This was
a terrorist attack. And Chris Stevens told Greg
Hicks that when he called him from inside his
compound not that long before he died. But Ben
Rhodes' brother, David Rhodes, was the president
of CBS News at the time. So I have always wanted
to see the communications between CBS and the
White House and between David Rhodes and Ben
Rhodes, right? Because he was later revealed
to be the person that was really running the
information operation to cover up what they had
done in Benghazi. So that's one part of it. The
second part of it is when I said to people, look,
we knew that this guy told his boss that he lied
to his boss. Because he couldn't tell him that
he went out again. His boss said to him, stay
put. I don't want anything to happen to you.
And his story is that he can't betray these people.
He can't leave them. He's got to try to do something.
He tries to do something, and he does nothing.
And he fails. So that was his, you know, if he
made up, the only part of his story that was
ever called into question was that. Nothing else
he said. was called into question except by one
or two random people who tried to say that he
wasn't really in the military or you know they
made up a few other things but those died on
the vine our problem was that when we said well
we knew he lied to his boss they said well then
you put a known liar on television you know and
so they had figured it out they found um a mechanism
by which to discredit us no matter what and i
actually found out from another reporter that
They had two lines of operation ready to go.
So whichever version of his story we went with,
they had the attack prepared. And then they have
their people that they have placed throughout
the media, and they use those people because
they know that those people are going to do and
say whatever they want. So we had this woman,
Nancy Youssef from McClatchy. We ended our story
with a page of Chris Stevens' schedule. But that
day in Benghazi. Yeah, they folded McClatchy.
They've gone to the trash bin of history where
they belong. But what Nancy Youssef did was she
said that even the image of Evans' schedule,
which was still lying in the ruins of that building
where he died, was faked because the building
had been renovated, which was complete nonsense.
There were three buildings, and only one of them
had been renovated, and that building... was
very much still in ruins. So they just got to
make up stuff. They got to make up whatever they
wanted. Because when you've got everybody attacking
you like that, you've now lost your ability to
defend yourself. It's an onslaught. It's coming
at you from every angle. I have to put the interest
of the show and the interest of the team and
the interest of the network first, because my
instinct is to fight, right? I want to fight
every part of it, but it's not about me anymore.
There are other people that are impacted. And
what happens? It's the classic moment. This guy
is out there saying this. I told the FBI everything.
And that is not that report that they've printed.
I didn't write it. I don't know where it came
from. It's nothing to do with me. And it's not
true. But what what happens? He then gets a death
threat. He lives in Wales in these mountains.
He gets a death threat. And he says he reports
it to the police and he disappears. So he's gone.
So maybe he got a death threat. Maybe he didn't.
The police confirmed that he did report it when
we called them. But now what happens to me is
he's not standing by his story anymore. And I
spoke to someone who's a real specialist in information
warfare. And he said, oh, yeah, of course he's
gone. Let me tell you what happens. They show
up at your door in the middle of the night. They've
got masks on probably. There's a bunch of them.
One of them comes to the door. He's very friendly
and smiling. And he says, basically, it's the
equivalent of you're lying in the dirt. They've
got their foot on your throat and they offer
you a hand up. And the hand up is you take it
or we're going to hurt your child or you take
the hand and you're going to be OK. Because look
what happened. That guy never suffered. He never
struggled to get more contracting work. So you
would think a guy that's really. controversial,
that speaks out, that has this massive media
storm around him, you would think he might struggle
to get secure government contracts again. But
he never did. And I don't think it's, I don't
know. The truth is, I don't know. But years later,
when the Atlantic came and did another hit piece
on me, more than a decade later, when the reporter
was thinking that she was still going to try
to get me to talk and she was trying to curry
favor with me, she sent me a photo. photographs
of a text exchange she had with him. And he said
to her in this text exchange, every word I told
Lara Logan more than a decade ago was 100 % accurate.
It's true. I still stand by my story today. She
was attacked. It was completely unfair. It was
completely dishonest. And he said, I will never,
ever do another interview on this again because
you people aren't interested in the truth. So
what happened to you? When did things start to
unravel? Did you lose your job right away? How
bad did it get? Take us through that. We want
to hear more about you and what happened with
you. Well, I'm in an edit suite at 60 Minutes.
We're just doing one incredible story after another
at that point. What year was this? Yeah, what
year are we talking about? 2013, I think. Okay,
yeah, that's right. So I had done an amazing
story on Super 6 -1, the first helicopter that
crashed in Mogadishu that was about to be buried,
and this American couple that pulled that out
piece by piece. We were just doing amazing work.
And we were in the edit suite working on a story,
and the phone rang, and my boss said, I need
to talk to you. Now, this had been rumbling,
right? They'd been digging at the story, digging
at the story. They were like, oh, 60 Minutes
didn't disclose that this book that this guy
wrote was published by a subsidiary of Simon
& Schuster. And we hadn't done it because my
boss at the time had said, who cares? He's like,
that had nothing to do with, there's nothing
to do with the story. We didn't even, you know.
We didn't pay any attention to that. It's like,
are we going to do this for every little thing?
So then when they attacked us on that, he said,
okay, I was wrong. We should have said it. Okay,
we apologize for that. Then they had John Kerry,
who was Secretary of State, they had his press
person go to Scott Paley. at 60 minutes and say
oh there's a problem with the Benghazi story
you know and then everything was hinging on this
guy because he had said I stand by my story I
told the FBI everything that happened and we
had all the emails that showed that the FBI had
gone to his house that the CIA had gone to the
same meeting and met with him that the state
department had people there we also had emails
that showed that there was an FBI agent who had
flown out after that meeting and brought photographs
of people, suspects in the attack, and had gone
to meet with him and asked him to see if he could
identify any of them. So we knew that the FBI
treated this man as credible. We knew that he
had a security clearance. He had to have a security
clearance to work for the State Department. We
knew that they had vetted him and cleared him.
And now, what did we have? We had a situation
where I turned to my boss and I said, you know,
I'm a little bit worried that the FBI is going
to come out and say that's not what he told us
and they could be lying. And my boss, this is
the time we were in. My boss looked at me incredulous
and he said, are you nuts? You're saying the
FBI would lie about something like this? And
I'm like. Maybe? And he's like, that's ridiculous.
Get out of my office kind of thing, right? He
couldn't even entertain it because the idea that
you could lie on that kind of scale about something
of that significance was just beyond our comprehension
at that point. Well, look where we are today.
Nobody would have any trouble believing that
the FBI could lie about something like that.
But that's exactly what happened. We got a 60
-minute CBS person. My boss got him, call your
buddies at the FBI. His buddies at the FBI said,
oh, yeah, the moment I saw that guy, I knew he
was lying. Really? Except that you had agents
flying out to meet with him and get him to identify
suspects for you and help you with your case.
But you knew he was a liar? Anyway, they wouldn't
let us deal with any of that. I just got called
down to my boss's office, and he said that the
New York Times, you know, we have a problem.
The New York Times has seen the reporting, and
they say it's not true. Well, that turned out
not to be true at all. What it turned out was
that the New York Times... was briefed by two
members of the State Department who claimed to
have been briefed by two members of the FBI who
said that they had seen the 302 report that had
been done by the FBI. So I never got to see any
of that. But that was it for CBS. So then what
happened to you? They surrendered. So I took
my punishment like a big girl. I did what you're
supposed to do. I did the right thing. I said,
Okay. What do you need me to do? I volunteered
to apologize. And they said, okay, we're going
to have to pull the story. You're going to have
to apologize on 60 Minutes. No problem. You're
going to have to go on CBS News and apologize.
No problem. Happy to do that. And I did all of
the above. And I stayed, you know, I stayed in
the office that night until very, very, very
late because we were trying to figure out how
to explain this, how to say this in a way that
was accurate. But why did you apologize? Because
you didn't do anything wrong. Yeah, well, did
you struggle with this decision? No, I didn't.
I knew that I was putting a rope around my neck
and hanging myself publicly. And it was very
if I could have chosen, I would have wanted to
know. I wanted to know the truth. And I knew
we didn't know the truth. The problem that I
had was I didn't have any way to get to the truth.
And I had to make and there was I was out of
time. I was out of options when CBS collapsed
and 60 Minutes surrendered. My options were over.
So as the leader of the team. As the face of
the story, the only right thing for me to do
was take responsibility. But they collapsed and
surrendered politically. It was all political
motivation. There was somebody at the top that
was orchestrating it to basically make sure that
Hillary didn't get hurt. It's kind of like the,
you know, Hunter Biden. Maybe alongside you,
maybe all around you. And, you know, this is
the problem I had, though. I didn't know the
truth anymore. because this guy was gone and
we couldn't get you so there were he said that
when he went there that second time he had two
libyans with him i wanted to get to those guys
but 60 minutes didn't allow me to go to libya
during the reporting of the story so we had to
use someone else to go and they did a very good
job for us on the ground documenting everything
with gps coordinates and everything else you
know but i wasn't able to talk to those two libyans
and it was so dangerous in Benghazi. Benghazi
was controlled by Al -Qaeda at that time. Remember,
it wasn't very long after Benghazi happened that
the U .S. embassy was overrun in Tripoli, and
the U .S. fled. We didn't even have an embassy.
So this is a time where, you know, people were
terrified, and rightly so, because the terrorists
were running Libya. So when you apologize, do
you still... were standing in her truth, would
you say? Because you were not able to double
confirm? Her boss. Her boss, everybody collapsed
around her, so they weren't even giving her an
opportunity to do what she needed to do, right?
And the words were carefully chosen. We made
a mistake. So that, for me, how did I reconcile
that with my own integrity? Well, I did make
a mistake. That's what I'm asking, basically.
There were mistakes I made. Now, I didn't believe
the mistakes that I made were the ones that were
being... You know, I was laughed at when I said,
well, we had an NDA. We vetted everything we
could with the State Department. We literally
took, when he said on the north wall, pointing
at this degree on this side next to this part
of the embassy, the security camera went out
in April, and then it took me three and a half
months to get it fixed. Like, we match details
like that with the State Department's own reporting,
okay? We went, we did things that were above
and beyond. what 99 % of reporters do every single
day. There's not a chance in hell that they come
close. And we were accused of sloppy journalism.
But the only thing that we, because we didn't
take his story that night and violate the NDA
and get people to comment on it. And remember,
this was all happening in an environment where
I literally had people that I had known for years
at Special Operations Command at SOCOM in Tampa
that wouldn't even talk to me. from work and
literally we're going to the neighbor's house
to call me from someone else's phone on the weekend
to say never put the word Benghazi in an email
to me again because if it is known that I am
communicating with any reporter about this I
will lose my job. I mean, they did not want the
truth to get out. And it's very easy, of course,
in hindsight, all those, you know, all those
reporters who are quarterbacking everything.
So when this guy said in the NDA, hey, listen,
I need my story to be protected because if they
find out they're going to come after me, you
know, and I could be killed. OK, so we signed
the NDA. But everyone, you know, at 60 Minutes,
they were like, well, the NDA doesn't mean anything.
And my producer and I are like, what? It's a
legal document. We honored it. You know, but
apparently honor was not important to most people
there. Because they were like, oh, you don't
have to honor that. What? So this public apology
was made, and then what happened to your career?
What happened from there? Well, I do want to
say that making that apology was obviously one
of the hardest things I've ever had to do in
my life. And I didn't get any sleep. And I had
a tiny little room at this hotel that was like
a broom closet because we booked the room late.
I wasn't supposed to be there that night. And
it was like 130 degrees in there because it was
next to the furnace for this hotel. And so I
had a pounding headache. It was one of the worst
days of my life. And I had to go out there and
do that. And be grilled, by the way, by people
who I knew never do a modicum of the reporting.
that we did. And I had to eat crow publicly.
So nationwide. So it was a nationwide humiliation
without a doubt. And I had to record the 60 Minutes
studio where I made a statement that we had withdrawn
the story because someone had lied to us. And
now it was possible that he had lied to us. I
didn't know for sure that that wasn't true. So
I was careful about the language that I agreed
to. But certainly the impression that people
had was that I believed he was lying to us. And
I didn't believe that, but I couldn't say it.
So I had to go home to D .C. that night. Les
Moonves was then CEO of CBS and Viacom. And he
called me and told me, you know, Lara, we're
a family. You've done so much for this company.
We love you. Your work is, you know, is second
to none. And we stand by you. And so, you know,
I felt uneasy, of course. I'd never been in a
situation like this. But I had. I had a lot of
faith in my bosses at 60 Minutes. When we worked
there, we worked really hard and we knew each
other really well. I'd been, remember, I'd been
gang raped and sodomized and beaten almost to
death in Egypt. I had been blown up in Afghanistan
multiple, multiple times. I'd been in ambushes
with people shot in front of me. I had lived,
I mean, I was eight and a half months pregnant
walking on operations in sewage canals, sewage
up to here in Helmand Province in southern Afghanistan.
You know, I had been rocketed and shot at and
I'd been through extreme situations. And my 60
Minutes and CBS, my team were like, I mean, I
spent more time with them than my family. Right.
And we did we pulled off the extraordinary. I
flew to Afghanistan and pulled off an exclusive
interview with the president and put that together
within like days back and forth and headline.
So when you work like that, you know, you have
bonds that are that kind of it's kind of like
a band of brothers is how it feels. And so. You
know, I didn't want to lose that. I was afraid
to lose my job. I had the only job I ever really
wanted. It was perfect for me because you had
time to learn the truth before you went out there
and you had time to do something meaningful.
So I never wanted another job. I never wanted
to anchor a show. And I had to go home in disgrace
and take abuse. and read one report after another,
that was a complete lie. So just think about
this. All of these journalists attacking me for
shoddy journalism are all writing things about
the story that are completely 100 % false. The
irony. Can you imagine the irony of that? And
then get this. The New York Times does a piece,
a glowing piece. elevating David Brock from Media
Matters for America and his great success in
taking down Lara Logan, which he says is our
greatest success to date. So an organization
that claims to be about honesty in the media
and guarding against bias in the media. He details
how he ran an operation where his staff came
in in the early hours of the morning, and they
worked all day, and he had teams of people dedicated
to taking me out. So he was ecstatic. But what
happened to me that Friday afternoon, after I
did all the apologies, I did the news in the
morning, and I did the studio in the afternoon,
and then I'm going to go back to D .C. Well,
when I come up, I have to be up on Monday morning,
dreading it. So I go up on Monday morning. And
my boss calls me into his office, and he says
to me, I'm really sorry, but I have to do something,
because they're baying for blood, basically,
and if I don't do something, they're never going
to stop. That's the political pressure. They
had no reason to fire me, because I hadn't done
anything wrong. They had no grounds to fire me.
So what they did is, he said, I have to put you
on leave. And he said, and I looked at him, it
was very hard to speak in that moment, but I
said, can it just be me? Because I didn't want
it to be my producer, who's an extraordinary,
amazing man, incredible producer, and I just,
I didn't want him to have to go through that.
And my boss swallowed repeatedly. And he looked
out the window because he's got a window. He
had a corner office overlooking the Hudson River.
And he couldn't speak. And when he looked back,
he had tears rolling down his face. And he said,
I knew you would say that. And he said, I got
to tell you, you're the best person on this floor.
And at 60 minutes, you know. that's a big deal
because compliments are short, especially I was
last in the pecking line, you know, behind a
lot of great people. And I was very much aware
of that. And I didn't mind earning my place.
And that was one of the worst moments. And so
there I went on leave, but I was still paid,
thank goodness, because I had a family to take
care of and young kids. But what happened over
time, so this is what they do, and this is very
helpful for your audience, right? So there's
the initial shock attack where they come at you
from every angle. Then this one's piling on,
this one's piling on, that one's piling on. You're
now answering allegations that are completely
fabricated, that have nothing to do with the
real issue. And one of the things that drove
them nuts was that I said Al -Qaeda and I didn't
call it Ansar al -Sharia Libya, which is what
everyone else said. And that drove them nuts
because they were pushing a false narrative that
Al -Qaeda was dead and buried. But what Al -Qaeda
did. was they rebranded. So when you have sanctions
against you, you can't operate, right? You're
a known terrorist organization. So al -Qaeda
created branches, Ansar al -Sharia Tunisia, Ansar
al -Sharia Libya, Turkey, so on and so on. And
now they operate. But this was a front for al
-Qaeda. And we knew that from our extensive reporting.
So that drove them nuts. So then they did stories
saying that, you know, we lied and said it was
al -Qaeda and Ansar al -Sharia has got nothing
to do with al -Qaeda. We named Sofiane Benkoumou.
the man who was actually responsible for the
attack. Guess what? The New York Times had been
reporting that this other idiot, who was a fake
puppet that they put up as the front, that he
was responsible. So they did a whole bunch of
hit pieces about how we got that wrong. Two years
later, what happens? The Obama Treasury indicts
Soufiane Benkoumou for the Benghazi attack and
sanctions him for being the ringleader of the
Benghazi attack. So we were right about everything.
And they couldn't bear it. So what did they do?
They do that shock attack. They pile on because
now the weight of credibility is with them. So
all the things about your reporting that they
don't want people to know, they they target that
and they throw it out there with no backing whatsoever.
And no one cares. You're like, I'm like a piece
of meat. And I'm at a feeding frenzy. And I got
great whites come and taking a chunk. And the
more sharks smell blood in the water, they're
coming for more and more and more. And that's
what it was like. I had people in front of my
house. I had people at the back of, I mean, reporters,
right? I had everybody coming at me. And now
every person that has always hated you because
you were successful and they weren't, or you
were, you know, better than them, whatever it
happened to be, now they've got their chance.
And they're going to come, boy. And they don't
hold back. And they get to hide behind anonymity.
And what they do, so now I'm on leave and my
boss at the Christmas party, because this happened
around Halloween, he tells everyone I'm going
to be back soon. Well, they leaked that. So then
what happens? He gets attacked for saying that.
So now he can't bring me back soon, right? But
then this is the most important part for people
to understand. When the initial attack fails,
What they do is a long form story. So it'll be
the New York Magazine or it'll be Atlantic Magazine.
It'll be somebody like that or Vanity Fair. And
they will do a much more strategic attack. So
they will take a look at what they did, what
worked, what didn't work, and they will look
for vulnerabilities. So this article was, you
know, I was then not allowed to come back to
work until this article was out, which was weird,
which tells you that people within CBS. were
collaborating with that because they knew that
this article was going to prevent me from ever
coming back to CBS. And there was actually a
woman, a female producer was a source for that
article who told someone that I know that after
this article comes out, her CBS career will be
over and she will never work again. So this is
what I'm hearing from all these people, right?
When the article comes out on the surface, it
doesn't look so bad. It's called Benghazi and
the Bombshell. Yes, it's full of nonsense about
me, complete lies, but I'm not the only person
in the article. What it did was it did two things.
Number one, it dragged in Les Moonves. And anyone
who worked at CBS knew that Les Moonves could
not bear bad publicity. He would shut down the
press office for months at a time around any
public events, like shareholder events or affiliate
conferences or whatever, because he couldn't
bear it. And so what did they do? They dragged
Les Moonves into the Benghazi affair. They said
that I would say things to people like... Oh,
if you don't let me do this, I'm going to make
one call to Les Moonves and end your career.
Complete and utter nonsense. I spoke to Les Moonves
maybe five times in 16 years at CBS. I had nothing
really to say to him other than pleasantries.
I didn't know the man. I would never have called
him about anything. So they just fabricated this
stuff, but they did it to make Les Moonves look
bad. And why? Because Les Moonves would put pressure
on my boss to get rid of the problem. And then
what did they do to my boss? They made him sound
like a lovestruck puppy. And then my boss spent
the rest of the time proving that he wasn't a
lovestruck puppy. And then it came over for you.
So then you got fired? No, they couldn't fire
me. They didn't have ground. So what, you stayed
on leave for a long time? When they brought me
back, they tortured me. They made me go to every
show at the news division and do work for them.
So I had to meet with the morning show producers,
and I had to do stories for them, which I did.
Because CBS 60 Minutes was now in the summer
break. And so now they said, well, you got to
get back out there on these other shows before,
you know, the new season starts. So I did all
of that. I took my punishment. I made the most
of it. And I actually worked with great people.
And I did some, I did Shimon Perry's interview.
I did a lot of big things. As usual, I did what
I did. I did my job. And they didn't expect that.
And then I came back to 60 Minutes. And when
that contract was up, they tried to, basically,
they treated me like I was, They treated, I mean,
the bottom person at CBS was given more, was
treated with more respect and kindness and regard
than I was. It was an extremely stressful situation.
And my agent kept saying to me, why are you doing
this? And I'm like, I'm not going to make it
easy for them. I know what they're trying to
do. They're trying to get me to quit because
they don't have grounds to fire me. And I'm not
going to do that. And then when it came up. So
I ended up being in hospital six times in eight
months. I had a hysterectomy that wouldn't heal.
I had massive surgeries. And I was in a really
bad way. The doctors were worried that I was
going to die. And my first story back at 60 Minutes,
I went to Liberia at the height of the Ebola
epidemic to do that story. And the day before
I left, I had to go. to the doctor's office and
have a scan to make sure that my sutures were
still intact so that I didn't die on that journey.
And that was one of the most dangerous stories
I have ever, ever done. But I did it anyway.
Only now I was doing it without the backing and
support of the people I worked for. So that made
it very hard. And and I realized at a certain
point. I'm going to die. That's what the doctors
told me. You're going to die if you keep doing
this. So I said to my agent, tell CBS, I want
to move back to Texas where my husband is from.
And I want to go from full time. I'll be a part
time correspondent. Give them a deal. And they
took that deal. So my next contract was to be.
And my boss said to me, you know, hopefully you'll
be able to come back. Your kids will be a little
bigger. You can be, you know, the mom you want
to be and all the rest of it. And I was like,
yes, absolutely. And, of course, when I got to
the end of that contract three years later, that
was when David Rhodes was like, not under any
circumstances in hell would he renew my contract.
So I was never fired, but I was effectively fired.
How low did it get for you? What was your lowest
point? Was it emotional? Was it physical? Maybe
you could share with us. Financial? Well, I had
significant injuries from being attacked while
on assignment for 60 minutes in Egypt, internal
injuries, and I lived with a lot of pain. So
there were nights, you know, when it was late
at night and there wasn't anyone else around
except my team, like sometimes I would crawl
to the bathroom because I couldn't walk. And
I think the hardest part for me was realizing
that when that happened, like just over there
right now in my studio, I have a massive box
full of thousands upon thousands of letters that
were written to me when that attack happened.
And what I realized was that none of that meant
anything. You know, CBS had said that they would
stand by me. They weren't going to stand by me.
I was just tossed out like trash. And I think,
honestly, the most difficult part was letting
go. I'm sorry, by the way, that you had to experience
that. Thank you. It's okay. I mean, you know,
I got to live. My children were one and two at
the time. No, they were actually, my daughter
was 10 months old, and my son was one. And then
when I got cancer the following year, my son
was two and my daughter was one. And then the
following year, Benghazi happened. So it had
been, my mother died. Then I was gang raped and
almost killed. Then I got cancer. And then Benghazi
hit. So it was pretty intense. But just the hardest
part was that I was still struggling physically
with significant issues. And I was treated really
badly. I mean, it was pure torture on a daily
basis. And so that, I think, was the lowest part.
was just coming to terms with and accepting that
these great people that I worked alongside with,
who meant so much to me, that I would never work
with them again. And then, of course, once you're
targeted like that, no one will touch you. They
all turn their back on you, though, right? At
the end, your boss turned your back on all your
coworkers. Not all. I still stayed in touch with
my boss. And obviously it affected their relationship.
And then, you know, and then he was forced out
not that long afterwards. And I think it probably
felt for him like, you know, the Benghazi thing
opened the door and made him vulnerable and that,
you know, maybe contributed to what they were
able to do. Because my boss was an incredible
journalist and a great man. And, you know, it
hurt because he was a ruthless mentor. you know,
an incredible mentor. And I loved him and his
wife and his family. I mean, when you work like
that and you work 18 hour days and, you know,
you go through these things together. I mean,
you imagine it's like I had to the night that
I was gang raped and I was I'm sitting there
in my hotel room and I'm, you know, somewhat
hysterical, almost like a rabbit animal at times.
And. And I had to call my husband and tell him
what happened to me, what they did to me. And
I said to him, look, I called my husband and
I said, look, I need you to do two things. One,
listen to me. I'm going to tell you what they
did to me. And two, I need you to pick up the
phone and call Jeff Vega and tell him. Because
I needed my boss to understand. But I couldn't
say those words to him. I couldn't speak those
words to him. And my husband did that for me.
My boss was amazing. He was, you know, and he
flew down and he came to see me. And, you know,
we went through a lot together. You know, when
you're in sewage up to your neck at four and
a half months pregnant or you're climbing mountains
on counterterrorism operations at eight and a
half months pregnant, you know, I mean, how many
bosses in the world would let you do that? Body
armor around my waist, you know, pack on my back,
literally. Well, on my butt half the time, I
will admit. I did spend a lot of time in those
mountains sliding. But, you know, he had real
respect for me, and I had real respect for him.
They tore all those relationships apart, and
60 Minutes never recovered. They never, ever,
ever got back their moral courage. To this day,
really. To this day. They're just going to the
ringer at this very moment, even. They basically
allowed themselves to be completely controlled
for whatever political nonsense. And ever since
then, everybody else probably watched that thinking
if they can do that to her, they'll do it to
us. That's right. So then you had a bunch of
pansies that now everybody just shuts their mouth
and does what they're told. And now nobody trusts
60 Minutes. I mean, I never watch. I used to
watch 60 Minutes all the time. I never watch
it anymore. In fact, I can't stand it. because
now I know what they really are. But when you
were there, it represented something different.
It had a soul. It had at least... Courage. You
were literally on the front lines of war correspondent.
You represented courage. And I remember when
you came out with what had happened to you, and
I was crying just watching. I'm like, as a woman,
I'm like, this lady, like... And she has the
courage to share it with everybody. And she's
still out there fighting and doing everything
that it takes. Unfortunately, they don't make
journalists like you anymore. I wish they do,
and I wish that there were more journalists that
would actually speak up and fight for the truth
and honesty because the reason we are being so
bamboozled in this world is because everybody
is staying silent. Way too many people are staying
silent. And we need more of you. We need more
of the Megyn Kellys who are not afraid to go
outside and say, no, you're not going to silence
me, and I am going to tell the truth. Because
people deserve to hear the truth, and that's
why I'm here. Well, fortunately. I'm not the
only one. I mean, we are in short supply. You're
not wrong about that. You know, and that's why
having people like yourselves step into the that's
why you have to step into the breach. You shouldn't
have to be doing this. We shouldn't even be at
this point as a society where people can use
the media as a weapon of mass destruction. That's
what they use it for. They use it to come after
people and destroy them. I steal a line from
a guy I know really well who rescues kids who
told me once that child sex trafficking is how
you murder a child without killing them. And
I realized, wow. That is very powerful, and that's
exactly what they do to us. You know, when you
come after someone to destroy their reputation,
this is how you murder someone without killing
them. Because they don't just want you to lose
your job. They want you to become unemployable.
Right. They don't. And there were people, I think
Slate, you know, there was a woman from Slate
who was campaigning for my marriage to come apart,
was was going out there saying she hoped that
I, you know, that my husband left me. And we
had a guy come to our house. I was in the bath
upstairs and he convinced, you know, our nanny
who opened the door that he was a friend. I came
downstairs and found him rifling through things
in my living room. OK, I mean, these. these people
will stop at absolutely nothing when they come
for you and there's you you feel powerless but
i mean so you know there were many really the
answer to your question about what was the lowest
point is that there were many low points but
at the same time What I realize is you need to
start thinking about why am I going through this?
What is the purpose of this? What am I learning
from this? And how am I benefiting from this?
Because it's not financially, that's for sure.
I'm not benefiting. I wasn't given a big payout
or anything like that because when my contract
ended, they wouldn't renew. And I wasn't like...
One of those people who had their home studio
built. It was a different time then. When I was
being attacked, people didn't really know about
cancel culture. They didn't really understand.
It's like you said, you know, we believed that
the media was telling us the truth, right? We
believed that, you know, Disneyland was a safe
place to go. I mean, if someone told you that
it's full of pedophiles that work there, you
would have been shocked. And now they're like,
well, of course, that's where pedophiles go to
work because that's where all the kids are. And
you're like, oh, yeah, I see. And then you watch
the arrest records piling up and you're like,
it really is true. You know, we just thought
that Disney made family movies. You know what
I mean? You thought that doctors practiced medicine.
You thought that the government might lie, but,
you know, they're not going to do, they're not
going to conspire to remove a political opponent
in a presidential election. And then put him
in prison on false charges. You're super early
victim of cancel culture before the Internet,
back in the days of fax machines and so on. And
it was highly orchestrated. And fast forward,
you know, with social media, with the government
telling social media platforms who to censor,
who not to censor. It's achieved a level of sophistication
that's kind of scary and happens really, really
fast now. You know? Yes. Well, I will say Dinesh
D'Souza was one of the early victims of cancel
culture, you know? And Bernie Kerik, if you remember.
I do. I mean, former commissioner. He was going
to be on the show. He passed recently. Well,
Bernie was a very, very... I loved Bernie very
much. He was a very good friend of mine. And
I'm still reeling from what happened to Bernie,
but... He was targeted because he was rising
to a position of power. And at the time that
he was targeted and sent to prison, no one understood
those things. They thought if you went to prison,
if the government charged you with something,
you must be guilty. I remember him telling me
that they put him in the same cell as, I believe
it was Abu Hama al -Masri, but I might have the
name wrong. It was an Islamic terrorist that
Bernie had put behind bars. And when he went
to jail, they put him in that cell. and when
he tried to talk to one of the prison guards
about it, the prison guard said to him, I'm sorry,
Commissioner, but this is on the personal orders
of Eric Holder himself. So these people are vindictive.
Eric Holder was the district attorney? No, he
was attorney general at that time. He was Obama's
attorney general. They want you to suffer. This
is the thing. They don't just want you to get
fired. They really want you to suffer. They want
you to lose your home, your ability to feed your
children. They want you to come to complete collapse.
And if that drives you to suicide, then even
better because they don't have to worry about
getting rid of you. What they don't want is for
you to come back. And when I was describing to
you what they do when they've got you in the
dirt, and they've got their foot on your throat
and they offer you a hand, you can see the difference
between the people who take the hand and those
who don't. Right? General Michael Flynn never
took the hand because they're still attacking
him to this day. General Stanley McChrystal took
the hand because he was totally rehabilitated
and nobody says a word about him and now they
love him again. General Allen took the hand.
Because he was, I might have had something to
do with that. He did tell me. Because when I
interviewed him in Afghanistan and he admitted
that Pakistan was lying about killing American
troops, he then lost the next position he was
going to. He was pulled out. That was the end
of his military career. But then what happened?
Later he came back as the special envoy to Iraq.
He took the hand. I was offered a hand just a
couple days after I was put on home leave. A
journalist I knew from South Africa, who I hadn't
spoken to in a while, called me and invited me
to a private dinner with Hillary Clinton. I declined.
And look at me. They're still attacking me to
this day. We just had another guest on our show,
and she was working for ESPN, and she had a little
bit of a different strategy. Sage Steele. Yes.
I don't know if you know her story. She sued.
She sued ESPN during the time that she was still
being employed. So she would go to work every
day while she was having this big lawsuit. And,
you know, I'm super happy she won. In hindsight,
do you wish that you would have sued CNN and
CBS and really just said, you know what, I'm
going to fight you guys even harder? Do you have
any regrets? Do you have anything that you would
change? Would you have done anything differently?
Well, I did want to take legal action. But, you
know, everyone tries to talk you out of it, right?
Because obviously suing people is very expensive
and so on and so on. And then, you know, in the
end, when we parted ways, I had to, of course,
in order to get my, what was it, my severance,
I had to... agree not to i had to agree to give
up all my rights and so and i i did it because
i couldn't afford not to that's the truth i just
i couldn't afford not to i didn't have the money
to do it but i did want to sue um not new york
magazine There's a reporter who, when he did
the hit piece on me, remember that strategic
long -term hit piece that came out that got my
boss trying to prove to everyone that he didn't
favor me in any way and then got Les Moonves
involved? Well, that guy, in order to make that
hit piece credible, he had to take what happened
to me in Egypt and reduce that to being groped,
which is what he said when I was groped. Those
are the words. I was groped on the streets of
Egypt. And he had to do that because... That
was a moment that transcended partisan politics.
Democrats and Republicans alike, nobody wants
to think of, you know, a young woman being gang
raped and sodomized and beaten almost to death.
And the way that I dealt with that earned people's
respect and it earned their trust. And that,
you know, I had the editor of the New Yorker
wrote to me, an attack on one is an attack on
all. Hillary Clinton wrote to me. General David
Petraeus wrote to me. President Obama called
me on the phone from the White House to tell
me how sorry he was about what happened to me.
I mean, you know, it was a big deal. And how
could they reduce that? And how could they minimize
this sympathy for me? The only way they could
do it was to lie. So he lied. And I really wanted
to sue New York Magazine because of all the things
that made me super angry at that point. Any survivor
of sexual assault knows that your word is all
you have. That was one of the reasons I spoke
out in the first place, because I recognized
that this was not going to be my dirty secret,
that I was going to have to carry this in shame,
hide it from everybody, figure out how to deal
with it on my own, pretend to be normal. That
wasn't going to happen. I mean, never. I never
even considered that. I don't consider it brave
speaking out because not speaking out wasn't
even an option for me. And what I learned was
that I was I was able to. and opened the door
for many other people to be honest about what
happened to them. And sometimes they just told
their husband or their wife. Sometimes they just
told their mother. But I had tens of thousands
of people come to me with those stories. So it
was very, very, that was central to my ability
to survive what happened to me, was that it wasn't
erased and it wasn't buried. And this guy...
just flat out lied because he's completely worthless.
And I did get an attorney to sue New York Magazine.
But I got, you know, what happened, what ended
up happening was that attorney wrote a complaint
that was riddled with things that were not true.
And all of them were in my favor, all of them.
And they went after CBS and they went after my
boss, they went after everybody. And you know
what? If I had launched that suit at the height
of the Me Too movement, I probably would have
won. But I would have completely and utterly
sold my soul. And so I had to turn around to
that attorney and say, what is this? Don't put
my name on this. This is a complete lie. And
I believe that was a setup. I think that's another
part of the setup is that you end up with an
attorney that is not working for you. Because
if she could have... won that case, she hated
my boss and CBS. She'd won a number of cases
against them. So that would have been just another
victory for her. And if it had all come apart,
I would have been taken down and, you know, and
that that wouldn't have mattered to them. So
then I got another attorney and and and he just
lied and didn't do what he said that he was going
to do. And I gave up at that point, you know,
because it was just it took too much out of me.
And. And all I can tell you is that at that time,
we didn't know about lawfare. You know, people
didn't know. For example, when I was investigating
the Benghazi story, one of the guys that actually
was on that team for the CIA that went with the
QRF to the embassy and fought their way in, you
know, and then fought their way back to the annex,
the subject of 13 Hours, the movie, he agreed
to do an interview with me. But he passed me
on to his attorney. Well, his attorney had zero
interest in helping me. And so I was struggling
with this, and I was speaking to another journalist
at the time, and he said, have you looked at
that attorney's record? And I said, no, what
do you mean? And he said, well, he's the go -to
guy that you get for taking on the agency, right?
And he was. He was the go -to guy. And he said,
well, don't you think it's odd that he's never
won a case? And this is part of the strategy,
what they do. Yes. So the book agent that represents
you, what do they do? They get you a whole chunk
of money because they know people need the money.
And then they control the narrative. The movie
producer that makes your film, what do they do?
They control the narrative because look at that
movie about Benghazi, 13 hours. All it did was
say these guys were heroes and they fought their
way in and they fought their way out. That's
it. It didn't tell you why they were there. It
didn't tell you who was responsible for the attack.
It didn't tell you the Obama administration was
lying about al -Qaeda in Libya, lying about al
-Qaeda worldwide, lying about the Islamic threat.
It didn't tell you anything. What they did is
they got the Benghazi movie and book done. They
got those guys silenced with NDAs on their way
with a nice payout so that they wouldn't come
back. And then they made sure that no one else
could get a story or a movie made. about Benghazi
again, because any time you'd go and pitch that,
you know what they say? Oh, that story's been
done. That movie's been done. Wow. Wow. It's
elaborate. That's how they work. Yeah. It's elaborate.
I mean, it's crazy. But, you know, at the end
of this, you know, how do you feel you've come
out of this at the end? Are you still fighting?
How do you feel you're at right now? Well, I
was set free. you know that's what happened to
me that's how i i feel like i've always had the
hand of god on me what i've survived um over
my lifetime the places that i've been to often
on my own not always but and certainly just myself
and a cameraman just myself and a cameraman or
a producer you know small teams but but a lot
of stuff that i did solo and i and i just know
that it was important for me to understand um
that the media is biased, that the mainstream
media was biased, that we all had a similar worldview.
It wasn't that somebody directed you, don't say
this, don't say that. It was just that nobody
even considered, like, what's a good example?
You know, I always give the example of Roe v.
Wade. Nobody would have considered reporting
on that issue in anything other than... you know,
leftist pro -abortion terms. When we covered
pro -life movement, it was as these lunatics
from the pro -life movement, right? And so you
don't realize because you've come through university,
you've come up the same way. You think, you know,
I mean, everybody was united in their disgust
for George Bush and, you know, Cheney and everybody
else. And everybody was, you know, when I criticized
them, I was elevated. I mean, the Washington
Post wrote glowing reviews of my work, the New
York Times. I was Glamour Woman of the Year.
I was, you know, one of their women that they
honored in their Women of the Year competition.
I was in Vogue magazine. I mean, you know, I
was the future. I was hailed as the future of
60 Minutes. I won the highest award in journalism,
the DuPont Silver Baton from Columbia University.
I mean, I was. You know, and I and I was, you
know, a hard worker and I worked with my team
and I was very grateful for those for that recognition.
But we always had a thing, you know, you're only
as good as your last story. And so I really had
no idea that we were inside of this bubble. And
when when people, particularly soldiers, because
I spent, you know, 10 years on the battlefield,
they would say to me, you guys, you know what
CBS is known as the Communist Broadcasting Service.
Right. And I'd be like. what? You know, and they
thought Dan Rather is a communist. I'd be like,
what? I mean, you guys are crazy. And gradually
over time, I started to see the bias creep in.
And it's about story selection. What stories
do you choose to cover? What stories do you not
choose to cover? What do you know? And my boss
was not like that. He was a real journalist and
we did great work. Then I started, then I became,
I think I was being prepared for what was to
come because I am a living, breathing example
that the good is stronger than evil and the truth
is stronger than everything and God is more powerful
than anything else. I mean, I am the physical
living, breathing example of that. They've tried
to get rid of me so many times. They canceled
me from Fox. I never, you know, I'll tell you
what happens to you when you get canceled. I
got a small contract with a production company
in Missoula, Montana, to do a series for Fox
Nation, which I did after my last contract with
CBS ended. And I did a year at the border for
Sinclair Media in between that. But then I got
that contract. Well, all the work I did on Fox
News, because I was on Fox News all the time,
people will say, oh, you know, Daily Beast, the
right wing gets their darling. You know, there
she goes. She should have been at Fox all along
because she's such a right winger. What happened?
I never got a contract with Fox. I was working.
My first salary for that series, Laura Logan
Has No Agenda, that I did for Fox Nation, was
less than my starting salary as a young CBS News
correspondent. And I just worked my butt off.
I did everything that I could do for Fox News,
even though I wasn't paid to do it. I did it
because I'm a journalist, and that's my job,
and I feel responsible for that. And I did it
because I knew that it would be good for me at
Fox. I would be able to build relationships.
And I was hoping, you know, that I would have
some security again. And I did it to promote
my show because I knew that that was important
and would benefit me. And then once we were on
the fourth season, I think, and we were in the
midst of negotiations, they asked me about Anthony
Fauci. And I had obviously was familiar with
RFK Jr.'s book and what he had written. and had
now learned what Fauci did with HIV and about
the experiments that he did on, you know, black
and Hispanic orphans, babies, the medical experiments
that he did and all these terrible things. And
as an African, I lived through HIV. I stood and
looked, watched them, filmed them, digging mass
graves for all the babies that would die every
week. You know, and so these things, and I talked
to a lot of doctors, I talked to a lot of people,
and they asked me, you know, Fauci says, I am
science. And if you criticize me, you're criticizing
science. And they asked me about that. And I
said, I said, you know, I don't know about that.
I said, I talked to a lot of people, doctors
and others, and they don't see Fauci as science.
They see more as Dr. Joseph Mengele, doctor of
death. Well, they went nuts. Then they said I
was anti -Semitic and trivializing the Holocaust,
which was the last thing that I was doing. Oh,
yeah. And then and so then I was canceled from
Fox and my agent of. 18 years dumped me, you
know, and I was canceled again. And then when
I was on Newsmax, it's funny because I didn't
work for Newsmax and I was asked, you know, to
do many times to do interviews with them. And,
you know, this is only about the second or third
one I'd ever done. And I made the comment. This
is when they kept, you know, Angelina Jolie and
all these people out there eating insects, trying
to promote insects as a real alternative to real
food. And I said, you know, these people, they
want us to dine on the blood. They want to dine
on the blood of children while we eat insects.
Wow. So Newsmax went to the point of actually
putting out a statement saying that I was now
banned and so on, and they canceled me. And I
was like, I don't even work for Newsmax. You
can cancel me if you want. I don't care. So now
the truth is I don't care what they say, and
I don't care what they do. I don't waste time.
They want you to spend time and energy defending
yourself, and they want to break you. slowly.
And they have two strategies. It's either attack
or they're going to ignore. So if they can get
away with ignoring you and pretending that you're
irrelevant and you don't matter, they'll do that.
But when you really get under their skin, like
when I was reporting on Antifa, I'm getting a
handwritten death threat mailed to my home address
because you're right and they can't bear it.
So if you want sort of a roadmap to, you know,
who are the people like when Trump appoints someone.
and they get attacked, that's a sure sign that
they're not owned by the deep state, right? And
it's the same thing here. And I will say there
are some great journalists like Cheryl Atkinson,
also formerly of CBS, also savaged for her work.
She did the Fast and Furious thing. She broke
that story. She's been reporting on vaccines
forever. In fact, people at CBS used to tell
me she was right -wing because she... was an
anti -vaxxer. And she wasn't an anti -vaxxer.
There was still mercury in the vaccines at that
time. I mean, who thought that was a good idea?
There's still mercury in vaccines now. They just
hide it very well. There you go. So, you know,
you just painted a picture for me that I just
got. And I hope that our viewers listening got
this as well. It's like the frog in the boiling,
in the hot water. Yeah, how to boil a frog slowly.
Yes, where they're taking all these bright, young,
beautiful minds, and they are slowly turning
the heat up. You know, they're brainwashing and
manipulating. And so these journalists, they're
growing up through the ranks, and they're thinking,
yeah, I'm fighting for truth. Yeah, I'm fighting
for what's right. And they're in this box. They're
in this bubble. And they can't see that what
they're doing is not real journalism. Because
there's always this threat. They're saying that,
oh, this person that spoke up, they're gone now
and I value my career and I want to rise through
the ranks as well. And, oh, my God, I wrote this
piece and look at the awards I got for this.
Look at the awards I got for that. And so it's
almost like subconsciously, I mean, they're in
this matrix, but they don't see that they're
in this matrix. And you slowly started to peek
your head out of. the matrix until you were like
one day, boom. Oh my God. I was living that the
whole time and thinking I was really in alignment
because it was how they almost groomed you. They're
grooming you guys to be in alignment, to walk
in step with one another. They're grooming all
of us. Every college. Yes. Yes. Every college.
I mean, it doesn't matter if you're in law or
PR or whatever you're in, you're being groomed.
And that's what the World Economic Forum and
all of that stuff is about. That's why we have
government by corporations now, right? Like Walmart
decides it's going to implement gun controls
just because you can't get rid of the Second
Amendment through Congress because the American
people want it. And the other thing that they
do, Dinesh D'Souza made me realize this, there's
sort of accepted truths. that nobody questions.
And that's really dangerous because we're supposed
to question everything. So I think actually being
attacked and canceled made me a better journalist.
I work to a different standard because the truth
is that I bet you at least 50 to 60 percent of
what you hear, maybe even 80 percent on a daily
basis, hasn't been vetted or verified by anybody.
And they get away with it because nobody, number
one, because that's often in line with the narrative
of the people who are in power and because nobody
cares. So, you know, how do you know? Well, look,
they had information dominance, right? When I
was attacked, they had total information dominance.
You know, outside of Rush Limbaugh, you know,
and talk radio, there wasn't. You know, you were
hard -pressed to find anything. And look what
they did to that. They said, where I worked,
I mean, I couldn't have put Rush Limbaugh on
an evening news broadcast as a source, you know,
or as a person commenting on anything. Even if
it was about Rush Limbaugh, I couldn't have done
it because people were like, oh, that lunatic,
you can't give that right -wing lunatic any credibility.
He doesn't have any credibility, right? So they
had total information dominance. And now that
has been broken. And that's a big problem for
them because they don't control the flow of information
anymore. But information has become the battlefield.
It's the main battlefield. The problem is with
technology, you now have self -censorship at
an extreme level. Because if I want to survive
in independent media, I've got to have a YouTube
channel. And to have a YouTube channel, I've
got to censor. I stay within those limits because
otherwise I get demonetized and then I can't
survive. And so now what's happening, we put
our show, my podcast, Going Rogue with Laura
Logan, we put that on TikTok just recently and
boom, boom, two strikes immediately. And so now
what people are doing is they're censoring themselves.
They're saving these tech companies from the
job of censoring. They're doing it for them.
Now that was happening even at 60 Minutes because
like you said, you get rewarded. If you lie about
Hunter Biden's laptop, you get rewarded. You
lie about Russia collusion, you get a Pulitzer.
You know what I mean? So we've got a system where
you tell the truth, you get punished and you
lie and you get rewarded. You rise through the
ranks. You know, look at these people like Don
Lemon making millions and millions and millions
of dollars. All these people on MSNBC, Rachel
Maddow. And, you know, they go out there and
they lie and they're not struggling financially.
You know what I mean? And they're getting rewarded
every step along the way. And so then now what
happens, you introduce media, social media and
new media, and what do they have? Absolute control.
If they want to block you, you're done. You're
gone. And they've got all your data, all your
followers, all your subscriptions. They've got
everything. Are you on Rumble or any places where
you can just, like I said, the Layla Show is
only on Rumble. I'm not even trying to deal.
Who's going to buy Rumble? Who's bought Rumble?
Who has the controlling shares in Rumble today?
I mean, technology, these companies change ownership
constantly. So you may, for a time, the problem
is we are allowed an illusion of freedom and
independence on these platforms. Rumble, YouTube,
it doesn't matter. If they choose to cut you
off, you're done. And so now we have like, if
you like, you have like a benevolent. you know,
authority, a benevolent power. So, okay, Rumble
now is controlled by people that give you a voice,
but what if they're bored out? It's true. My
question for you is, where do we go from here?
What more can we do besides continuing to fight
and use our voice? Because we are so heavily
censored, have you thought about what more can
we do? Well, I think we need to invest in real
journalism. because if we don't, like the knowledge
and experience that I have, I don't believe that
I survived this long and learned what I have
just to take it to the grave, right? I learned
from older journalists, more experienced journalists,
people who are incredibly talented. I learned
the best from the best, you know, and in independent
media, who are people learning from? You know,
if you haven't walked into your boss's office,
you know, like an excited, you know, little bunny
rabbit bouncing up and down because you've got
the best story ever and you lay it out for him
and he just eviscerates you in about four and
a half seconds, rips it to shreds. Have you done
this, this, this? No, that's nonsense. That's
nonsense. And what about this, this and that?
And you're like, holy crap. I got to do my homework,
right? I mean, if you haven't had those kind
of experiences, if you're not surrounded, you
know, we don't have newsrooms really anymore.
I mean, they, you know, the left has newsrooms.
They have resources. They can pay to send people
to do firsthand on the ground reporting. Can
you, I mean, can I go off to North Carolina and
see what's going there? Can I go to Syria and
see what's happening on the ground there? How
am I going to do that? Who's going to pay for
it? And by the way, you know, crafted investigative
storytelling like we used to do, like I used
to do at 60 Minutes, who's going to pay for that?
It's expensive. It costs a lot of money. You
know, it takes time to put together. The independent
media model is built on churning out content.
Churn out more content, churn out more content.
Well, daily and immediate content has a very,
you know, it's very powerful and important, but
it lacks depth. It's such a dilemma because let's
say there was somebody, some investment in independent
journalism. People aren't going to read print,
so you can forget that. Where is it going to
appear? On YouTube? I don't know. They're going
to have to censor themselves. It's not going
to be on the social media platforms. It has to
be censored. Blogs? On Medium? It's tough. It's
tough. Where's all this going? I don't think
we know yet. I think that's probably the truth,
right? I mean, maybe some smarter people than
me know that. But even X has its limitations,
you know. And even X, you can be, there's people
now who are canceled on X, who are censored on
X, who don't have a voice. And there's no one
to talk to in that situation. There's no human
being. And that's one of my big frustrations,
is that if you want to ask someone about something,
who do you call? You can send an email. That
may or may not be on sick. My prediction, and
they talk about AI controlling us. I believe
that AI has already started to control us because
I guarantee you when you got your strikes on
TikTok and we got our first strike on YouTube,
it was a robot that consumed our content, summarized
it, found the offending content, wrote up...
where the offending content is, time -stamped
it, and then gave us a strike and there was no
human intervention at all. The robots are controlling
our voice. It's the first indications of AI controlling
us. Well, and there may be, you know, I think
there are actually other indications, like, for
example, search results, right? I think search
results have been controlled by AI and controlling
us for a very long time. In fact, Dr. Robert
Epstein, he's a Democrat, but he's an incredible
scientific researcher. He did a movie called
The Creepy Line. which is about this, showing
how they manipulate search results to win elections.
And the proper mix is a scientific mix of search
results between positive, neutral, and bad that
they use in order to be credible. And the AI
can do that, right? The AI can sort all those
articles and make sure that you're getting exactly
what they want you to see. And now they're talking,
the new business models for media are all based
on AI. Most of them are based on AI. And I have
said to a few people, okay, that's great. Your
story was written by AI. How do you know if it's
true? How do you know if it's accurate? And who's
going to sit and vet that? Because by the amount
of work and time and money it takes to vet that,
you might as well have had a human being on the
ground. But what's going to happen over time
is we still have the ability to discern. because
we've lived in the pre -AI time. But what happens
when that story has been repeated millions of
times because it's in everybody's AI and the
fact that it was never true in the first place
is completely lost. We're doomed. I wish we were
ending on a more positive note. Why don't you
share with us what you're working on? What are
you up to these days? Well, I have my show, Going
Rogue, with Lara Logan. And I have a great team,
small team, but very talented and very committed.
And that's really important to me, to be able
to work with good people. And we're doing long
-form interviews. I exposed something called
satanic accelerationist cults and insults, which
is all about these dark networks. of people who
prey on kids online and they seduce them to commit
self -harm. So everything from cutting all the
way to the bone to carving their names in their
bodies and then committing suicide. And then
how this branches into pedophilia and zoophilia,
which is sex with animals and animal abuse, torture,
murder. And then how they recruit mass shooters
and mass killers. within these networks. So,
I mean, you know, these are things that I believe
are very, very important that need to be exposed.
And as long as I'm able to keep doing my job
as a journalist, which is really what I was built
for, then I have a degree of peace and happiness
in my life. And, of course, nobody owns me, right?
I'm not answerable to anyone as long as I'm...
As long as I don't sort of build up a dependency,
you know, some people are so dependent on Instagram
or YouTube or whatever that they can't, they
don't feel that they have a choice. When you're
stripped of everything, you truly are set free.
And I think that people recognize that and they
value that. So I don't regret what happened.
to me at all i learned a lot and through my learning
i've been able to share that with people and
open a lot of people's eyes i miss my team i
miss the the great work that we did um but Look
at what has happened to the media. I mean, you
know, I would never, ever want to be part of
something that interviews Bill Gates and doesn't
ask him about all the kids in India and Sudan
who were sterilized or disabled because of the
poison that he was pushing into their bodies.
Or to, you know, to put Chris Krebs as the head
of CISA on television after the 2020 election
and get him to rub a stamp, the theft of... an
entire election and help to cover it up i mean
that's disgusting yeah that's absolutely disgusting
and to and to not care what are you when you
don't care that uh january 6 defendants are in
solitary confinement without even being charged
and you don't think that you as a news broadcast
have a responsibility to know the truth yeah
and but you you know I mean, I just would never
have been part of the propaganda. And so I think
God spared me from that. I didn't have to make
a decision. I didn't have to be noble and give
up everything because I got, you know, I got
tossed into a wall and obliterated, right? And
then I had to pick up the pieces and that wasn't.
um a choice you know there was no question i
was just going to keep on trucking but you know
so so i just if you really want to know the thing
is about cancel culture is it's nothing it's
a road map to people who are who are honest and
who are in the fight for the right reasons don't
give them time don't give them attention that
they don't deserve Understand it for what it
is. Use it to help you have discernment in figuring
out what the truth is. But these people truly
don't matter to me anymore. You know, I let go
my hatred. I let go my anger. They're nothing
to me. And they're nothing because we have an
urgent mission or struggle on our hands, right?
I have to fight for real journalism. I have to
fight for that so that people even know what
that is. People don't even know what that is.
They think that activism is the same as journalism,
and it's not. My boss told me once, you're not
a lawyer in a court of law. You don't have to
prove a case. You're not an activist, you know,
that's fighting for a cause. You are a journalist.
And if it's true, don't force it. The facts will
come. You will find them. You will find the evidence.
You will be able to show the truth. But don't
force it. And these were invaluable lessons that
need to be passed on. So the one thing that I
would urge people to do is don't accept that
journalism itself is dead. It only is dead if
we let it die. You know, I would also say to
other journalists out there, because there are
great journalists and great producers. There's
a young journalist, Taylor Kramer. He has a site
called RGV Truth. You know, these are journalists
that are coming up in this new world and they
don't have any guidance. You know, they don't
know what are the legal decisions, the ethical
decisions that they should be making. So we need
to provide that as an industry. We need to build
new institutions because our old institutions
have failed us. The National Press Club, you
know, all of these, Columbia Journalism School,
these places have failed journalism. They should
be ashamed of themselves. And so who's going
to rebuild that? Who's going to fight for that
if we don't fight for it? Like if doctors don't
fight to save the medical profession, who's going
to fight for it? They're the ones who are most
equipped to do that because they know what you're
supposed to do when you put medicine and patients
first and money and big pharma second and politics
and your career and the other things that shouldn't
factor into it, right? So I just would urge people
to... not to accept poor quality as a replacement
for all forms of journalism. Sometimes, you know,
it's not going to be up to scratch and it's more
important to get the truth, but we can't cede
that ground of high quality investigative journalism
and just give up on it. We have to invest in
that and we have to invest in young reporters.
I think also listening to your story, your journey
and the other stories that we've heard, I love
your resilience. They kept smacking you down,
smacking you down, punching you just, but you're
a fighter. And even though, you know, you didn't
necessarily fight back in terms of like legally
this or that, you fought back by using your voice,
by continuing to use your voice and not letting
them silence you. And now that you have your
own show, of course, yes, there's a little bit
of censorship that you might need to do on this.
But you're still, for the most part, saying everything
and anything you want and need to say, which
is you stepping back into your power. And like
you said a few minutes ago, not caring about
what anybody thinks about you anymore. No. And
I hope that more people hear that message and
understand the less we care about what these
people say about us, the more of us are going
to be able to step into our power and our voices
will be heard if there are more of us. using
them like they should be using. So I wanted to
thank you and just say how amazing you are for
not backing down no matter how many times they
tried to silence you and shut you up. You came
back stronger and stronger and stronger. So I
wanted to thank you for that. And I think I have
maybe a bigger crush on Lara than I did before
this. And I still have a big crush on you, too.
But not in a gay way. I probably talk too much,
and you two are very kind for listening to me.
But I got to tell you, this is what it really
comes down to. When you know that there are children
that have come across the southern border, for
example, that are two, three, four years old,
that have been taken from their families, very
often sold, and they're coming here to be raped
until they die, and the people telling you that
they're better than you, And that they care so
much about the border. And that's why, you know,
they care so much about these kids. That's why
Trump and kids in cages and all that stuff. And
now why you've got protests. These are the same
people. So what you realize is that they don't
care at all. But I care. That's the thing that
drives me and keeps me going. And I guess I probably
am resilient. But I'm resilient because I'm not
thinking about those things. I'm focused on the
fact that I have a responsibility. I have the
ability to let people know what the truth is.
And I trust them. I trust that there will be
enough people who will stand up and do the right
thing. I really do think so. I think that people
want the truth and they gravitate towards the
truth. But there are a lot of people who lack
moral courage because they're afraid of what
they're going to lose. And I'm not sure that
they've... I really face the reality that all
those things they're trying to hold on to, those
things are gone. If we don't have an honest media
and we don't have real accountability in this
country and we don't deal with facts and not,
you know, presented as facts, not opinion dressed
up as facts, if we don't fight for these things,
we lose it all. We really do. We lose it all.
And we owe our children more than that. We owe
their children more than that. You know what
I mean? That's a common theme that many of our
guests have said. You have to do it. Even if
you're going to be unsuccessful in fighting for
your own cause, we must do it for the children.
We must do it for the future. We must do it so
the bullies will say, well, there's easier other
paths to take. Well, if you hold on to your soul,
no matter what they took from you, you won. Sure,
absolutely. That's a beautiful... Way to close
the episode. Thank you so much for your time.
You're the best. Wish you all the luck in the
world. Tell us where they can find your show.
You can find Going Rogue with Lara Logan. You
can find it on YouTube for now, on Rumble, on
X, on laralogan .com, Spotify, pretty much anywhere.
And Shorts on Instagram. Shorts on Instagram.
And I'm sure there's places to follow you as
well. Yes, I finally got someone who understands
Instagram who can help me do that. Thank you
so much. Have a beautiful day. Thank you. Thank
you, both of you. Take care. Okay. Thank you.