WEBVTT

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I can't ethically give a newborn hepatitis B

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if there's zero risk to that newborn because

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there is risk from the aluminum. There was a

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paper published later around that time that showed

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an increase in autism in boys who got the hepatitis

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B vaccine and I just don't feel comfortable.

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And at first they were okay with that and then

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they had a secret meeting and I was out. I'm

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so excited to have Dr. Paul Thomas, America's

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most beloved pediatrician on the planet, America's

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favorite doctor. He has been through a lot. You've

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been through a lot, haven't you? I have. You

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have. So this show is maybe a little bit different

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from other shows that you've been on. This show

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is for people who have experienced sort of cancellation

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of one form or another, and I know that you have.

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predating COVID even. Yeah. Oh yeah. And just

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to get a better understanding of your journey,

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you know, and I just, we just want to hear your

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story. How are you doing now? Let's start backwards.

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Start with the positive. I'm doing amazing. Okay.

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And the moment I decided I was done fetching

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and stepping for the medical board and I decided,

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you know what? You can take it and shove it.

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Really? Oh, I had high blood pressure. I was

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anxious all the time. I've never been suicidal,

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and I wasn't then, but it was rough. Layla and

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I feel very qualified to be hosting this show

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because Layla's experienced two rounds of her

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own cancellation attempts and has come out stronger

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than ever. I've had my own one experience, and

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this is an amazing insight. Once you... start

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fighting and not rolling over, there's liberation

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in that, right? Right. Yeah. So when did you

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make that decision? That was a conscious decision

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on your part at some point. To fight. To fight.

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Oh, hell yeah. So I started as a pediatrician,

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you know, 35 years, 40 years ago, following the

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CDC. Government's trained. This is how you're

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supposed to do things. You're a practitioner?

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I was in Oregon the whole time. I trained in

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Dartmouth and California for my training, and

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then I practiced in Oregon. And I was having

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a family, and everything was going great. I'm

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making good money, and I'm a busy pediatrician.

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I love kids. I love kids. I'm just spinning around

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these rooms and having a blast. And then my youngest

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son really wasn't doing well. He was lining cars

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up just for two years and not learning how to,

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he couldn't retain anything. So that was, let's

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see, he was born in 96. This would have been

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right around 99, 2000. Same time I also started

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waking up. He's like 28 now, if my math is correct.

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Yeah. Yeah. At the same time that I'm starting

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to become aware something's going on with our

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kids, not just mine personally, but my practice.

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And then I ended up seeing. Sort of a wake -up

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call, if you will. 2004, 5, 6, and 7. Actually,

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I had a wake -up call before that. I read this

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paper. You may have heard of Andy Wakefield.

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I do know him. Another guy who got canceled.

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Yes. Actually, yes. It's true. So he wrote a

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paper in, I think it was 1998 or 99. And it basically

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showed that autistic kids in their guts had...

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measles strain virus in their lymph nodes and

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in a special sort of inflammation of those lymph

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nodes and published it and just said hey here's

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a case study there may be a link just for doing

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that. They persecuted him and eventually got

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his license. I mean, it was a 10 -year ordeal.

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He did nothing wrong because we know that because

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his senior supervisor got his license back because

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he had the money to fight it. And he just couldn't.

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But anyway, I read that. It was like my first

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little glitch in this idea I was taught in medical

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school that vaccines were safe and effective.

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You had nothing to worry about and all that.

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So I'm going, huh. And then I was attending conferences

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and learning on my own and starting to realize,

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oh, there is literature out there showing we've

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got a problem with vaccine ingredients. We've

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got a problem with how vaccines are administered.

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There was mercury back then in most of the vaccines,

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thimerosal. There's been aluminum all along.

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There's formaldehyde. There's all sorts of toxic

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ingredients. Early days of the internet, I assume.

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Was this pre -internet? How did you get your

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information? Yeah, this was pre -internet for

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me anyway. It was definitely early 2000. I think

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it was around when it started, somewhere around

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there. our viewers to know that you had over

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15 000 kids in your practice you had a thriving

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practice right eventually eventually you you

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were not just this small -time pediatrician you

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had a ton of kids in your practice yeah so um

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2004 five six and seven i see a kid in my own

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practice regress into severe non -verbal autism

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and i was like no once Oh, that's what it's like.

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Twice? Coincidence? This is weird. I'd never

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seen it before that. Never saw autism in med

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school. Never saw it in my training as a pediatrician.

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I mean, there was some mild stuff. We used to

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call it PDD -NOS, pervasive developmental disorder,

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not otherwise specified. But this was the first

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severe, full -blown, nonverbal, no eye contact,

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spinning. I mean, these kids are most, many of

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them are in diapers in their 20s. I mean, they

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are. 24 -7 care. And I was like, the pediatricians

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and even the specialists we would send them to

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would say, well, we're sorry your kids has autism.

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I don't know. There's nothing you can do. And

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give you a little handout. You can go get some

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OTPT and good luck. That was not okay. We're

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the pediatricians. We're supposed to know everything

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there is to know about why things happen to kids

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and what to do about them. And we were not being

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given any guidance on what to do. And nobody

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knows. Apparently, they still don't know to this

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day what's causing autism. When you were a kid,

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were you like an inquisitive little boy who just

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wanted to know all the answers to everything?

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Yeah. I was one of those kids. You were one of

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those kids. You betcha. You went deep. I also

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was one of those kids. I grew up in Zimbabwe.

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It was Rhodesia when I was there. And I was one

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of those kids that was taught to stand up against

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authority. Why? What was the environment? So

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the environment was my parents are... white missionaries

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in black Africa in Zimbabwe and it was Rhodesia

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then but the white government had all the power

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so there was 22 or 23 black Africans for every

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white Rhodesian but the whites had all the power

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and it was just it was apartheid basically just

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wasn't called that and my parents didn't feel

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this was right. I grew up in a village. I was

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surrounded by Africans. I spoke the language.

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I dreamt in Shona. I mean, I was fluent. And

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when I was in, I think I was in fourth grade,

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we're in this little village school and a African,

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black African inspector comes in and sees these

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two white kids, my sister and I in the village

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and goes, what's going on here? What are you

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guys doing here? You're not allowed here. It's

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a segregated society. There was swimming pools,

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whites only, drinking fountains, white only.

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Schools were definitely segregated. But here

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we were in this village school. They just hadn't

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visited for four years. So we got kicked out.

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I ended up in a city school with my white friends

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for middle school, all the way through middle

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school. And I was the head boy for the... eighth

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grade basically the last grade of segregated

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this was a white this was the all -white school

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so i would go to my white school for for school

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and then i'd play with my african friends after

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school so when i was with my african friends

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i would talk with my african accent and then

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of course i would go to school and speak with

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my regular accent so that everybody could understand

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me people think i'm making fun of that i can

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literally switch it on and off i did my whole

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life you know you Bringing up your childhood

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now makes a lot of sense how you were able to

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have the strength to fight against the grain

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and go against authority and say, no, I'm not

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going to just follow your lead. I was supposed

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to hoist the Rhodesian flag on Independence Day

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and I refused because it was an illegal white

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government that had stolen the... from the stolen

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the the sovereignty from the british crown so

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how old were you so i was like seventh or eighth

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grade so what would i have been 12 right maybe

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and uh so they had that proctor me and us had

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somebody else hoist the flag Then I got arrested

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in the train stations for handing out revolutionary

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information. I'm in the black section of the

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train station. Whites aren't allowed there. And

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I'm going down. I'm speaking Shona. Wow. Same

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age, roughly. So I had a little bit of rebel

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in me. So when I started seeing things not going

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right with the vaccines and the authorities,

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the Academy of Pediatrics, the CDC, the NIH,

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everybody's pretending like nothing's going on

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here. It's like. I knew something was wrong and

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I just had to know and figure it out because

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we are destroying children's lives. It's the

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same thing when you were growing up. It's the

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same thing. In a way, right? Yeah. So what year

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did you write the book, The Vaccine -Friendly

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Plan? And could you walk us through at what point

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did you realize you were starting to be canceled?

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So I guess the first experience I had with being

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canceled was in... In 2007, after my fourth case

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of seeing a child regress into autism, I went

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to my partners. I was in a pediatric group at

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that point. There were four other pediatricians

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and I had full partnership. And I said, you know,

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I've been reading about. what's in hepatitis

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B vaccine, the 250 micrograms of aluminum, and

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they moved it from teenagers, which made sense

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when we used to give it to teenagers, to newborns.

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But we already have the moms tested. We already

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know there's zero risk for that baby. I can't

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ethically... give a newborn hepatitis B if there's

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zero risk to that newborn, because there is risk

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from the aluminum. And I had the papers that

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show not to exceed three to five micrograms per

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kilo, according to the FDA. There was a paper

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published later around that time that showed

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an increase in autism in boys who got the hepatitis

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B vaccine. So I thought, if we're going to vaccinate,

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we should try to do it sensibly. And I just don't

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feel comfortable. And at first they were okay

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with that, and then they had a secret meeting

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and I was out. So that was my first cancellation.

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Wow. Yeah, because cancellation isn't just the

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media or the licensing board. It could be your

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family. It could be your business partners. Your

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colleagues. I talk about being canceled in my

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family. Well, I want to get to that. That's later,

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yeah. So I thought this is the worst day of my

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life. I have been in this practice. I taught

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residents and medical students for the first

00:11:29.529 --> 00:11:32.730
five years out of training. And I was highly

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regarded in my community as one of the top pediatricians.

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I mean, I'm in front of the community pediatricians

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leading case conferences and teaching. And I

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was an attending teaching residents and medical

00:11:42.210 --> 00:11:45.940
students. I'm at the top of my game and I join

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a top practice and I build a massive practice.

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That's the one where I was having 30 plus newborns

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a month. My partners are getting one, two or

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three newborns a month. It was a love hate relationship,

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too, because I was so productive. And the way

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they had that clinic set up, you got compensated

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to some degree based on production, which makes

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sense. You know, you eat what you kill, as they

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say. That doesn't work, though. That's not a

00:12:12.909 --> 00:12:16.070
good metaphor. Here's your vaccine. I'm sorry.

00:12:18.909 --> 00:12:21.769
Anyway. Dr. Paul, can I focus on those feelings?

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Take me back to how you felt when they had the

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secret meeting. Oh, my God. That's where I want

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to go. I want to be in your mind. In the instant

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you hear that, I'm done. Big surprise. Oh, out

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of the blue. I had no idea. Why would you not

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want to do what's right for kids? Did you start

00:12:41.629 --> 00:12:44.710
to question your decision? Oh, not that at all.

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There was no way. They said it's unethical not

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to follow the CDC schedule. Now, in Oregon, we

00:12:53.029 --> 00:12:56.570
still have religious, and back then we had both

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religious and philosophical. Now, one of those

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is gone. But did this take you back to your childhood?

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Did you all of a sudden go back to that put it

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together like those feelings of like an authority

00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:09.299
figure coming in? Telling you you need to do

00:13:09.299 --> 00:13:11.220
something, but your gut and soul told you no.

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Yeah, there's like you in a way, you know, you

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just You know it you feel it it feels wrong and

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I cannot I can't once you know that you're doing

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something wrong then in my opinion I have no

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choice otherwise i can't live with myself i mean

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many great people have said if you witness something

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and do nothing then you are part of the problem

00:13:35.970 --> 00:13:38.350
yeah right there's lots of important quotes like

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you said and done though oh absolutely especially

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in this case but in this case you see i wasn't

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given the option it wasn't like well you can

00:13:47.649 --> 00:13:50.210
stay if you follow the cdc schedule it was we're

00:13:50.210 --> 00:13:53.759
done with you okay Like you had some sort of

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infection or something or some virus that they

00:13:55.779 --> 00:13:57.399
didn't want to be around. It was a problem they

00:13:57.399 --> 00:13:59.879
were tired of having to deal with. I was outspoken

00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:01.860
about things. I had been giving them books to

00:14:01.860 --> 00:14:04.700
read about what I was learning. Yeah. And they

00:14:04.700 --> 00:14:07.159
would politely say thank you and never open them.

00:14:07.299 --> 00:14:10.019
Yeah. So they didn't want to deal with the fact

00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:12.399
that I was coming up with information that was

00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:15.480
inconvenient. One of my partners was an attorney.

00:14:16.059 --> 00:14:19.059
No, sorry, married to an attorney. And so everything

00:14:19.059 --> 00:14:22.480
had to be very much by the book. So it's unethical

00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:25.259
not to do the CDC schedule was the philosophy.

00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:28.100
You know, I'll say a little bit about the CDC.

00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:31.840
I remember being in the same situation with the

00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:34.419
lady who was running my school at the time, Centner

00:14:34.419 --> 00:14:37.860
Academy, as you know. She gave me a 200 -page

00:14:37.860 --> 00:14:42.580
CDC document that said, for COVID, you need to

00:14:42.580 --> 00:14:44.500
follow every single one of these things, which

00:14:44.500 --> 00:14:47.340
was social distancing, putting the plastic glass

00:14:47.340 --> 00:14:50.919
insanity. For kids, forcing kids to wear masks

00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:53.279
and walk in a certain direction. I remember you

00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:55.940
refused. I refused. But like you, I have that

00:14:55.940 --> 00:14:59.179
rebel in me. And I took the 200 pages. I threw

00:14:59.179 --> 00:15:02.019
it in the trash. And she looked at me and she's

00:15:02.019 --> 00:15:04.120
like, you're going to lose my license over this.

00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:06.279
And I was like, then I will fight this fight

00:15:06.279 --> 00:15:09.820
alone. Because I refuse to harm these kids over

00:15:09.820 --> 00:15:13.480
your license. I'm in the middle of a couple of

00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:16.600
very like -minded individuals. She's worried

00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:20.990
again. chained to the doors of the school, you

00:15:20.990 --> 00:15:23.690
know? That sounds like you're quite similar in

00:15:23.690 --> 00:15:27.250
that way. Yeah. So I think for me it was this,

00:15:27.250 --> 00:15:30.269
I had a huge family. So I have three biological

00:15:30.269 --> 00:15:34.250
kids and I adopted six. So I had nine. Now I've

00:15:34.250 --> 00:15:37.110
added another one through marriage. But back

00:15:37.110 --> 00:15:39.909
then I had nine kids to support. Yeah. And I'm

00:15:39.909 --> 00:15:42.450
thinking, I'm done. Were you doing well financially

00:15:42.450 --> 00:15:44.669
at that? Oh my gosh. Before that? I was doing

00:15:44.669 --> 00:15:46.629
incredible. Can you, are you able to share like,

00:15:46.970 --> 00:15:50.090
This is a long time ago. Yeah. I was making $350

00:15:50.090 --> 00:15:52.769
,000 a year. Okay. As a pediatrician, that's

00:15:52.769 --> 00:15:55.090
big money. A long time ago as well. As a pediatrician,

00:15:55.090 --> 00:15:57.970
that's big money. Almost 20 years ago. Yeah.

00:15:58.870 --> 00:16:03.009
Oregon, which things don't cost as much. Yeah.

00:16:03.009 --> 00:16:05.549
So, I mean, raising nine kids, I wasn't rolling

00:16:05.549 --> 00:16:08.889
in the dough because they're expensive. You guys

00:16:08.889 --> 00:16:12.549
know that. But I was doing great. And all of

00:16:12.549 --> 00:16:14.440
a sudden. What am I going to do? Wash dishes?

00:16:14.580 --> 00:16:16.100
Because that was the last job I had before I

00:16:16.100 --> 00:16:18.720
went to med school. So when they kicked you out,

00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:21.000
they were like, oh, by the way, leave your babies

00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:24.559
and your clients, your patients with us. So we

00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:28.559
went through a negotiation and there was a circle

00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:30.580
around their clinic that I wasn't allowed to

00:16:30.580 --> 00:16:34.440
be that close. So non -compete. And then there

00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:37.759
was you take you can take these employees. So

00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:39.419
they had identified employees that were loyal

00:16:39.419 --> 00:16:41.240
to me and they don't want them in their office.

00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:44.059
So you take these employees, which included two

00:16:44.059 --> 00:16:46.700
nurse practitioners, by the way, who were more

00:16:46.700 --> 00:16:49.659
on the same philosophy of informed consent. Let

00:16:49.659 --> 00:16:53.009
parents decide. And so I got a couple of really

00:16:53.009 --> 00:16:55.330
good employees and a couple of nurse practitioners

00:16:55.330 --> 00:16:58.970
and I was allowed to take some of my patients.

00:16:59.049 --> 00:17:03.870
So I got about the way it wasn't. I lost access

00:17:03.870 --> 00:17:07.089
to my patients, but they sent a letter. Yeah.

00:17:07.150 --> 00:17:10.329
And so some of them found me. Okay. Yeah. Do

00:17:10.329 --> 00:17:14.029
you speak to these partners to this day? No.

00:17:14.569 --> 00:17:17.769
No. Were you social with them before and close?

00:17:18.779 --> 00:17:20.859
I mean, we would have work parties and all that,

00:17:20.900 --> 00:17:23.619
but we weren't like socially close outside of

00:17:23.619 --> 00:17:25.980
work. But you essentially had to start over.

00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:27.660
I had to start from scratch. How old were you

00:17:27.660 --> 00:17:29.839
when you had to start over? Oh, my goodness.

00:17:30.019 --> 00:17:36.980
Let's see. Five plus 13, 18 years after I was

00:17:36.980 --> 00:17:42.299
29. So 39, 40s, mid to late 40s. So while you

00:17:42.299 --> 00:17:44.720
thought you were cruising and you had the stability,

00:17:44.940 --> 00:17:48.730
using your voice because you knew. you were on

00:17:48.730 --> 00:17:50.910
to something you basically had to start from

00:17:50.910 --> 00:17:53.690
zero yeah so you had a journey of almost 20 years

00:17:53.690 --> 00:18:01.690
of um effing cancellation journey this long duration

00:18:01.690 --> 00:18:06.650
going on for a while so um you know at the time

00:18:06.650 --> 00:18:08.730
i really thought it was the end of my career

00:18:08.730 --> 00:18:12.480
in my world then i thought Hell no. I'm going

00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:14.339
to build the clinic that I should have built

00:18:14.339 --> 00:18:16.180
from the beginning and start out all on my own.

00:18:16.220 --> 00:18:18.240
Went out and took a half a million dollar loan

00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:24.460
to do it and created Integrative Pediatrics that

00:18:24.460 --> 00:18:27.759
ended up being like... If I hadn't been later

00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:29.740
canceled, this could have been a model clinic.

00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:34.519
Everything you create gets canceled, basically.

00:18:34.660 --> 00:18:38.359
Hey, there's a pattern there. You're on to something.

00:18:39.380 --> 00:18:42.480
Maybe I should just submit. No, because he's

00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:45.960
fighting the system and he's creating a new...

00:18:46.670 --> 00:18:49.589
You guys know about creating. Yes, yes. Sometimes

00:18:49.589 --> 00:18:51.490
you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet.

00:18:51.589 --> 00:18:54.269
There you go. There you go. So we started the

00:18:54.269 --> 00:18:57.430
new clinic with the foundation of if you work

00:18:57.430 --> 00:18:59.210
there, you have to honor informed consent. That

00:18:59.210 --> 00:19:02.309
was my only rule rule. And then you just look

00:19:02.309 --> 00:19:05.769
for good people. It's extremely hard to find

00:19:05.769 --> 00:19:10.630
providers in the pediatric world. So pediatricians,

00:19:10.630 --> 00:19:13.690
nurse practitioners who are willing to honor

00:19:13.690 --> 00:19:16.869
informed consent when it comes to vaccines. because

00:19:16.869 --> 00:19:20.210
of the scrutiny that pediatricians and nurse

00:19:20.210 --> 00:19:23.210
practitioners get put under if you don't follow

00:19:23.210 --> 00:19:26.609
the CDC schedule. There is an unspoken or actually

00:19:26.609 --> 00:19:31.150
fairly clearly delineated policy and levels of

00:19:31.150 --> 00:19:34.170
coercion for you to vaccinate. But pediatricians

00:19:34.170 --> 00:19:38.869
particularly. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And so most choose

00:19:38.869 --> 00:19:43.009
to the path of least resistance that also pays

00:19:43.009 --> 00:19:46.059
you very well. is to vaccinate according to the

00:19:46.059 --> 00:19:48.619
CDC schedule. I want to fast forward a little

00:19:48.619 --> 00:19:52.700
bit because you left. You actually started to

00:19:52.700 --> 00:19:56.680
build a very thriving practice. You wrote this

00:19:56.680 --> 00:19:58.880
book called The Vaccine Friendly Plan that I

00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:01.880
know many mothers have followed. And since you've

00:20:01.880 --> 00:20:07.039
rewritten a new book, The Vax Fax, that we highly

00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:11.930
recommend everybody take a look at. You were

00:20:11.930 --> 00:20:14.329
cruising through this, and everything seemed

00:20:14.329 --> 00:20:17.210
fine until you received something from the medical

00:20:17.210 --> 00:20:20.289
board. Right. Tell us a little bit about that.

00:20:20.869 --> 00:20:24.569
In a nutshell, encapsulate what happened. Well,

00:20:24.569 --> 00:20:26.069
I have to tell you a little story about the vaccine

00:20:26.069 --> 00:20:28.890
-friendly plan and my co -author, Jennifer Margulis.

00:20:29.029 --> 00:20:31.230
So my mom lives in the Portland area, or lives.

00:20:31.329 --> 00:20:34.849
She's passed now. But I took Jennifer to meet

00:20:34.849 --> 00:20:38.210
her, and we had just published the vaccine -friendly

00:20:38.210 --> 00:20:42.069
plan. And my mom goes, So you're the one that

00:20:42.069 --> 00:20:47.089
put my son's head on a platter. She knew. And

00:20:47.089 --> 00:20:50.509
in fact, I knew. I was writing a book that was

00:20:50.509 --> 00:20:53.309
challenging the CDC. I was saying there's a,

00:20:53.450 --> 00:20:57.089
in my opinion, better way. It's certainly different.

00:20:57.289 --> 00:20:59.490
Maybe it's not better, but at least it's different.

00:20:59.910 --> 00:21:02.230
The reason I thought it was better was I was

00:21:02.230 --> 00:21:06.789
clearly minimizing toxins while still protecting

00:21:06.789 --> 00:21:08.990
against the things that actually could kill a

00:21:08.990 --> 00:21:13.759
baby. So it was a compromise strategy, if you

00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:18.059
will. I thought it would be enough to hopefully

00:21:18.059 --> 00:21:20.299
not have any severe autism, you know, hopefully

00:21:20.299 --> 00:21:25.720
minimize harm. I've since learned that it wasn't

00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:30.940
enough. For example, I had a, one of the things

00:21:30.940 --> 00:21:32.859
that book recommended was wait till age three

00:21:32.859 --> 00:21:35.059
on the MMR, measles, mumps, rubella vaccine.

00:21:35.819 --> 00:21:38.619
And I had never seen a child. I mean, I gave

00:21:38.619 --> 00:21:43.720
a lot of kids the MMR at age three. I did because

00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:45.700
that's what we were doing. And I never had a

00:21:45.700 --> 00:21:50.400
single kid have obvious harm from it. But many

00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:53.079
years later, I had a family join my practice

00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:56.279
and said, we had read your book. And when we

00:21:56.279 --> 00:21:58.359
gave the MMR at age three, our kid regressed

00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:01.480
into severe autism. It's like, oh, that's not

00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:07.569
even safe enough. It took. About a year to a

00:22:07.569 --> 00:22:09.230
year and a half before I started getting letters

00:22:09.230 --> 00:22:12.690
from the medical board. And they came ferociously

00:22:12.690 --> 00:22:15.609
every month, a new letter, a new complaint. But

00:22:15.609 --> 00:22:17.369
these weren't patient complaints. These were

00:22:17.369 --> 00:22:21.950
contrived phishing expeditions. To get access

00:22:21.950 --> 00:22:23.529
to your records. To get access to the records.

00:22:23.529 --> 00:22:25.130
What year are we talking about, more or less?

00:22:25.869 --> 00:22:30.369
2018. Okay. 2017, 2018. The book was published

00:22:30.369 --> 00:22:35.140
in 2016. So I knew the trouble was coming. And

00:22:35.140 --> 00:22:37.619
I had an attorney at the time who was the sweetest

00:22:37.619 --> 00:22:41.140
man, super bright. He says, Paul, I've been doing

00:22:41.140 --> 00:22:43.680
this my whole life. Just cooperate. You're going

00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:46.180
to be fine. And I'm telling him, you don't understand.

00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:48.380
This is a different animal we're dealing with.

00:22:48.700 --> 00:22:52.380
Oh, no, no, no. He reassured me. And ultimately,

00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:55.259
in the very end, he retired. And around that

00:22:55.259 --> 00:22:57.859
time, he says, you know what? I was wrong. You

00:22:57.859 --> 00:23:00.779
weren't fine. The board was out to get you. So

00:23:00.779 --> 00:23:04.500
these letters started coming. Your anxiety started

00:23:04.500 --> 00:23:08.160
to ratchet up a little bit, more and more. The

00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:11.079
fear when you get a board letter, it's... The

00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:13.680
first one? Well, the first one, it's a curiosity.

00:23:13.980 --> 00:23:16.880
Okay. But by the time you're getting... I figured

00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:19.920
out I got like close to 30 of them. Now, each

00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:24.920
letter is a new set of walking instructions for

00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:27.900
you. How long are they? Oh, that could be a page,

00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:30.900
two pages, three pages. But there's specifics

00:23:30.900 --> 00:23:33.259
they're asking for. And you've got nine kids.

00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:35.640
I'm not doing kids in a busy practice and an

00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:39.920
urgent care I started. I mean, it's insane. And

00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:42.220
yet I've got to now address this and they give

00:23:42.220 --> 00:23:45.700
you a week. A week. They will respond to you

00:23:45.700 --> 00:23:48.900
six to nine months later, maybe or never. But

00:23:48.900 --> 00:23:50.720
you've got a week to respond with whatever they

00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:53.160
want. So are my attorneys involved? What do I

00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:55.019
do? You need to respond or they'll pull your

00:23:55.019 --> 00:23:58.619
license. You have no choice but to respond. And

00:23:58.619 --> 00:24:01.079
that went on for? That went on for a few years.

00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:08.299
So how did your health suffer? I was under a

00:24:08.299 --> 00:24:12.759
massive amount of stress. And, you know, it's

00:24:12.759 --> 00:24:16.920
hard to talk about not being able to be completely

00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:21.480
resilient. You know, I wanted to feel like I'm

00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:24.480
invincible. But under the onslaught of that.

00:24:25.849 --> 00:24:28.029
The other thing that's happening simultaneously

00:24:28.029 --> 00:24:31.609
is I'm starting to lose insurance contracts because

00:24:31.609 --> 00:24:34.390
of quality measures. One of the quality measures

00:24:34.390 --> 00:24:36.549
in pediatrics is how well you vaccinate. It's

00:24:36.549 --> 00:24:38.750
not how healthy your population is. It's how

00:24:38.750 --> 00:24:41.930
well can you follow our... protocols. So I got

00:24:41.930 --> 00:24:44.329
dropped by an important insurance plan and then

00:24:44.329 --> 00:24:47.470
I later got dropped by another one. So now it's

00:24:47.470 --> 00:24:50.490
hitting my pocketbook. Not just all the added

00:24:50.490 --> 00:24:53.049
effort I'm having to put in, but I'm now having

00:24:53.049 --> 00:24:56.910
my income drop significantly from losing contracts.

00:24:57.069 --> 00:24:58.390
You lose contracts, you lost those patients.

00:24:58.529 --> 00:25:01.410
At this point, are you feeling anxiety? Are you

00:25:01.410 --> 00:25:04.869
feeling distrust? When you wake up in the morning,

00:25:04.890 --> 00:25:08.509
what were you feeling? Go through the days. I

00:25:08.509 --> 00:25:12.299
mean... You're losing sleep? Yeah. You mentioned

00:25:12.299 --> 00:25:13.440
you had high blood pressure? I'm a pretty good

00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:15.660
sleeper. I got high blood pressure out of it.

00:25:17.180 --> 00:25:21.380
I'm one of those crazy high endorphin people.

00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:28.240
It's genetic. My dad's mom was sickly happy all

00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:30.920
the time. I mean, you've got to be kidding. My

00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:33.460
dad was called Sonny Boy. He was always happy

00:25:33.460 --> 00:25:36.569
all the time. I was the same way. and i've measured

00:25:36.569 --> 00:25:39.150
my levels of uh you know neurotransmitters in

00:25:39.150 --> 00:25:41.289
there through the roof so i'm blessed that way

00:25:41.289 --> 00:25:45.730
but inside the anxiety of knowing that it's all

00:25:45.730 --> 00:25:49.430
falling apart and i didn't do anything to deserve

00:25:49.430 --> 00:25:52.369
it i guess the injustice of it all was what was

00:25:52.369 --> 00:25:55.410
so hard to deal with you know being on um experiencing

00:25:55.410 --> 00:25:58.170
ourselves there's been moments for like What

00:25:58.170 --> 00:26:00.569
did I do wrong? You know, we look within like,

00:26:00.670 --> 00:26:03.250
what did I do wrong? You know, we try to get

00:26:03.250 --> 00:26:05.410
some sort of sense of ownership, some contribution.

00:26:05.670 --> 00:26:07.589
Did you go through that yourself? All the time.

00:26:07.910 --> 00:26:10.930
Because I knew I hadn't done anything wrong.

00:26:11.049 --> 00:26:12.869
I was standing up for the kids. I was standing

00:26:12.869 --> 00:26:15.049
up for the truth. I was standing up for trying

00:26:15.049 --> 00:26:17.210
to figure things out, for trying to make things

00:26:17.210 --> 00:26:21.900
better and trying to be. I mean, being disciplined

00:26:21.900 --> 00:26:24.319
is hard anyway, right? So the medical board is

00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:28.720
this all -powerful entity. They have the right

00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:30.920
to get rid of your license and you have basically,

00:26:30.980 --> 00:26:35.519
you can challenge it. Good luck, right? The whole

00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:38.940
system is stacked. You are guilty until proven

00:26:38.940 --> 00:26:43.259
guilty. And your only recourse is to take in

00:26:43.259 --> 00:26:45.539
front of a judge appointed by the state that

00:26:45.539 --> 00:26:48.240
appointed the medical board. And that judge can

00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:50.279
only make recommendations to the medical board.

00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:53.539
It's a total kangaroo court. Is it nationwide

00:26:53.539 --> 00:26:56.200
or just Oregon? It's many states, but it's how

00:26:56.200 --> 00:26:59.759
it was in Oregon for sure. Aaron Seary, who's

00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:02.759
the top attorney for ICANN, Dell Big Trees, Highwire,

00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:05.539
he called me up at one point and said, I'm going

00:27:05.539 --> 00:27:08.059
to give you a free hour of coaching and consultation

00:27:08.059 --> 00:27:13.200
here. I will come to your trial and I will shred

00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:17.289
the other side. We will absolutely destroy them.

00:27:18.170 --> 00:27:20.049
But in the end, you're going to lose your license.

00:27:20.349 --> 00:27:22.970
It's a closed hearing. You don't get to talk

00:27:22.970 --> 00:27:25.089
about anything that was said. You don't get to

00:27:25.089 --> 00:27:27.009
broadcast anything about what happened at this

00:27:27.009 --> 00:27:31.170
trial. So he says, I don't see a win. Where's

00:27:31.170 --> 00:27:33.710
the win? I'll come if you insist, but you will

00:27:33.710 --> 00:27:36.150
lose your license and I will have destroyed them.

00:27:37.490 --> 00:27:39.970
And are you ready to pay those fines? Which they

00:27:39.970 --> 00:27:42.230
had concocted some ways where the fines were

00:27:42.230 --> 00:27:45.190
going to be half a million or more. Money I didn't

00:27:45.190 --> 00:27:48.930
have. So financially, you were pretty pretty.

00:27:49.390 --> 00:27:52.750
Then you got booted out. I imagine you built

00:27:52.750 --> 00:27:56.430
up a nice practice. Oh, it was booming. 15 ,000

00:27:56.430 --> 00:27:59.390
patients. 15 ,000 active patients. And I had

00:27:59.390 --> 00:28:02.549
an urgent care that was doing well until... They

00:28:02.549 --> 00:28:04.390
took that out. How many employees did you have?

00:28:04.569 --> 00:28:08.450
I was up to 36 employees at my peak. So every

00:28:08.450 --> 00:28:10.450
night you're probably going to bed thinking this

00:28:10.450 --> 00:28:13.009
could be all. You got to pay your employees first.

00:28:13.049 --> 00:28:14.809
That's right. So every night you could be thinking

00:28:14.809 --> 00:28:17.279
tomorrow this could be over. And I don't have

00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:19.460
any backing. I don't have any support. I'm a

00:28:19.460 --> 00:28:23.380
sole provider. I have 36 employees. I have nine

00:28:23.380 --> 00:28:26.400
kids. You know, you feel responsible for your

00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:30.619
employees too. Yeah. So I was fighting for them.

00:28:30.700 --> 00:28:33.000
I'm fighting for the kids who I'm trying to protect.

00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:36.200
I'm fighting to survive financially. He's fighting

00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:38.440
to save my other baby, which was my practice.

00:28:38.660 --> 00:28:40.980
Yeah. So my dream was this practice was going

00:28:40.980 --> 00:28:43.740
to be a model practice and it would be an added

00:28:43.740 --> 00:28:46.960
security retirement benefit. will because I had

00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:49.160
built that practice up to where it should have

00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:52.519
been worth probably four million and it was dwindling

00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:54.380
to the point where I realized it I might not

00:28:54.380 --> 00:28:57.319
even be able to give it away mm -hmm so everything

00:28:57.319 --> 00:28:59.920
I had created was being taken and and at the

00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:03.480
same time I'm staring a divorce in the face and

00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:07.359
meanwhile stress and pressures with your spouse

00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:12.160
yeah what did she want you to make Go a different

00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:15.799
path. That was a big problem. She wanted security.

00:29:16.579 --> 00:29:18.519
And I couldn't go there. Just do the vaccines.

00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:23.039
Yeah. I mean, why are you doing this? I relate

00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:26.059
to a lot of things you're saying. You know, my

00:29:26.059 --> 00:29:28.160
husband was obviously. All very supportive. He

00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:30.700
was very supportive. But, you know, at some point

00:29:30.700 --> 00:29:33.220
he's like, you know. If they want to get the

00:29:33.220 --> 00:29:36.019
shot, just let them get the shot. But like you,

00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:38.920
I felt this. Yeah, I jokingly say, I'll be like

00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:41.259
on the phone, a plexiglass company? Yeah, good,

00:29:41.299 --> 00:29:45.880
good. You just figured that out? But, you know,

00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:48.440
I feel so many similarities with you because

00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:53.210
I remember thinking. Why is the world coming

00:29:53.210 --> 00:29:56.089
after me when all I'm saying is you don't know

00:29:56.089 --> 00:29:58.890
what you don't know and just a pause to figure

00:29:58.890 --> 00:30:01.569
out what in the heck is in these shots. Common

00:30:01.569 --> 00:30:04.670
sense. Yeah. And the world just hits you hard

00:30:04.670 --> 00:30:07.309
and you feel, I felt the anxiety in my chest.

00:30:07.529 --> 00:30:10.809
Yeah. I felt, I had those nights of not sleeping.

00:30:10.869 --> 00:30:13.849
I had those nights of, you know, I'll never forget,

00:30:13.950 --> 00:30:16.329
you know, I got really close to these kids, which

00:30:16.329 --> 00:30:18.309
I'm sure you got very close to the kids in your

00:30:18.309 --> 00:30:21.500
practice. I would go to school and they would

00:30:21.500 --> 00:30:23.160
run up to me and they would give me these beautiful

00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:27.579
hugs. And I remember many of them crying because

00:30:27.579 --> 00:30:29.400
their parents were pulling them out of our school

00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:33.019
because of my stance. And what hurt me the most,

00:30:33.019 --> 00:30:36.839
it wasn't the media. It was the kids that wanted

00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:38.799
to be at my school where their parents said,

00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:41.359
we're out of here because this is too much. Like,

00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:44.900
tell me how you felt about knowing that you were

00:30:44.900 --> 00:30:48.220
putting. your life on the line to protect these

00:30:48.220 --> 00:30:50.660
kids and tell me like these feelings that you

00:30:50.660 --> 00:30:53.079
would have walking into your practice knowing

00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:55.720
that you were doing what's right yet the world

00:30:55.720 --> 00:30:57.440
was attacking to you i want to i want to know

00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:00.180
more about that well i got a couple stories or

00:31:00.180 --> 00:31:04.259
thoughts to share um one was to answer your question

00:31:04.259 --> 00:31:09.119
directly it was just me i didn't have support

00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:11.099
at home with my wife she didn't want to hear

00:31:11.099 --> 00:31:13.240
any of the stress because she was already dealing

00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:17.099
with her own stuff And I didn't have, I couldn't

00:31:17.099 --> 00:31:19.700
go to the employees. They're all counting on

00:31:19.700 --> 00:31:22.079
me. They don't want to see you scared. No. So

00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:25.359
I had to put on a show. Yeah. And I was pretty

00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:28.839
good at it. I mean, COVID came and I was teaching

00:31:28.839 --> 00:31:31.180
them about COVID and we're having lunch meetings.

00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:33.980
And, you know, I kept that show going, but inside

00:31:33.980 --> 00:31:36.740
I'm like scared to death. I'm not, this isn't

00:31:36.740 --> 00:31:39.640
going to last because I'm watching the money

00:31:39.640 --> 00:31:41.940
coming in, going down, the contracts going away.

00:31:42.890 --> 00:31:46.069
um the boarding letters they talk yeah they know

00:31:46.069 --> 00:31:50.130
the board letters keep coming um so yeah the

00:31:50.130 --> 00:31:52.930
stress level was intense how'd you deal with

00:31:52.930 --> 00:31:55.029
it what did you do to get through it how did

00:31:55.029 --> 00:31:57.349
you were you praying were you meditating oh i

00:31:57.349 --> 00:32:00.829
was i was meditating and praying a lot uh and

00:32:00.829 --> 00:32:05.309
i was actually had some of my better connections

00:32:05.309 --> 00:32:08.630
with you know holy spirit and all that in in

00:32:08.630 --> 00:32:11.029
those moments of praying and just everything's

00:32:11.029 --> 00:32:13.940
going to be okay I've got an interesting story

00:32:13.940 --> 00:32:18.559
to share. At one point in there, well, often,

00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:21.220
many times, parents would say, aren't you afraid

00:32:21.220 --> 00:32:22.799
for your life? They're going to come get you.

00:32:22.940 --> 00:32:24.859
And they would even tell me stories of other

00:32:24.859 --> 00:32:27.480
doctors who were taken out, right? Suicided.

00:32:27.940 --> 00:32:31.119
Yeah, exactly. Jeff Bradstreet was one that I

00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:32.960
knew well. It's like he was a brilliant, lovely

00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:37.200
man. Anyway, one day I'm driving to work and

00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:40.000
I'm having these fear thoughts that, you know.

00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:43.140
I know which way I drive. It'd be really easy

00:32:43.140 --> 00:32:45.740
just to have an accident take me out. Should

00:32:45.740 --> 00:32:48.859
I be going different directions? You know, spinning

00:32:48.859 --> 00:32:52.609
in fear. which is not a place I like to be. You're

00:32:52.609 --> 00:32:54.950
supposed to be in faith. I know this. I grew

00:32:54.950 --> 00:32:57.950
up in the church, and I'm doing my meditation,

00:32:58.130 --> 00:32:59.910
and at times I'm fine. But in this particular

00:32:59.910 --> 00:33:02.670
morning, I was in full -on fear. In fact, I was

00:33:02.670 --> 00:33:04.990
so fearful, I had gone and bought a whole bunch

00:33:04.990 --> 00:33:07.910
of weapons, and I signed up for a course where

00:33:07.910 --> 00:33:09.849
I was going to go learn how to use them and how

00:33:09.849 --> 00:33:13.730
to fight and all this stuff just in case. My

00:33:13.730 --> 00:33:16.769
very first patient that day was a four -month

00:33:16.769 --> 00:33:21.759
-old well visit. Yeah, nice young mom. Do the

00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:24.859
whole thing. And it was a great visit. As I'm

00:33:24.859 --> 00:33:27.019
about to leave, she says, you know, Dr. Paul,

00:33:27.180 --> 00:33:29.740
you don't have a thing to worry about. We've

00:33:29.740 --> 00:33:35.740
got you covered. I don't know her. I want to

00:33:35.740 --> 00:33:41.660
know. Tell me more. Give me a second. That fear,

00:33:41.819 --> 00:33:49.299
oh, it left. I knew I was covered. And I know

00:33:49.299 --> 00:33:53.160
that to this day. So I don't know why it's still

00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:56.539
emotional. Oh, I mean, it's beautiful. When she

00:33:56.539 --> 00:33:58.039
said that, she was talking about the angels.

00:33:58.180 --> 00:34:00.920
Was she praying for you? She's praying. She says,

00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:02.740
we got you covered. We got a whole army. It's

00:34:02.740 --> 00:34:08.980
so chill. A whole army of people. Oh, I love

00:34:08.980 --> 00:34:11.519
it. So I went home, told my middle son, he's

00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:14.230
the only. He's the only son of mine. He's the

00:34:14.230 --> 00:34:18.230
only son of mine. I told myself I wasn't going

00:34:18.230 --> 00:34:20.469
to cry on this show. I wasn't going to cry on

00:34:20.469 --> 00:34:23.769
this show. Look what you did to me. I said to

00:34:23.769 --> 00:34:25.769
him, I can't take that course. You want to take

00:34:25.769 --> 00:34:27.909
it for me? It was like $3 ,000 I'd paid. I was

00:34:27.909 --> 00:34:30.349
going to learn how to fight. I used all my weapons

00:34:30.349 --> 00:34:33.010
and all this stuff, and I realized I could kill

00:34:33.010 --> 00:34:37.130
another person, and God's got me anyway. So at

00:34:37.130 --> 00:34:39.849
that moment, your fear lifted? Yeah. And then

00:34:39.849 --> 00:34:41.570
I was... You knew that was your sign. That was

00:34:41.570 --> 00:34:43.889
your sign. It was a huge sign. The other sign

00:34:43.889 --> 00:34:47.469
just came into my life is the person I ended

00:34:47.469 --> 00:34:50.610
up marrying. And that was another angel. We love

00:34:50.610 --> 00:34:55.989
Dee Dee. Yeah. So she's an incredibly God -connected

00:34:55.989 --> 00:34:58.329
person. So I'm doing my own meditation, but now

00:34:58.329 --> 00:35:01.570
I've got some support. Yeah. and she worked with

00:35:01.570 --> 00:35:03.409
you at the time right yeah we were working together

00:35:03.409 --> 00:35:05.710
you were alone and all of a sudden you get an

00:35:05.710 --> 00:35:08.349
angel in your life that's going on with you yeah

00:35:08.349 --> 00:35:12.510
yeah yeah and and she we used to take walks and

00:35:12.510 --> 00:35:15.829
she she just coached and coached and coached

00:35:15.829 --> 00:35:19.010
to help me figure it all out um because i was

00:35:19.010 --> 00:35:22.429
yeah i had a marriage falling apart my mom says

00:35:22.429 --> 00:35:26.880
you need a trial separation Because I think...

00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:28.920
She was your angel. Yeah. And I think in retrospect,

00:35:29.260 --> 00:35:30.880
I was... My husband was my angel. I was pretty

00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:33.719
close to cracking. Yeah. What would that have

00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:36.059
looked like? I don't know. Because I didn't,

00:35:36.059 --> 00:35:38.900
thank God, crack. But I mean, I couldn't watch

00:35:38.900 --> 00:35:41.820
any movies that had any violence. I mean, we

00:35:41.820 --> 00:35:44.840
used to watch Shoot Em Up just for fun. My soul,

00:35:44.920 --> 00:35:48.780
my spirit couldn't handle any of that. I just

00:35:48.780 --> 00:35:51.440
wanted love and peace. Peace and love. Yeah.

00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:54.000
They would just say the same thing. You just

00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:56.820
want peace and love. And sometimes you got to

00:35:56.820 --> 00:36:00.519
take that stance. And I really feel like we were

00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:03.400
born in this world right here and now, and we

00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:05.639
all have a purpose. And I feel like your purpose

00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:09.860
is really to show the strength that you had to

00:36:09.860 --> 00:36:13.019
be able to take a stance. And I think that God

00:36:13.019 --> 00:36:16.260
sent you, Dee Dee, because to do this alone is

00:36:16.260 --> 00:36:19.559
hard. Oh, it wouldn't have continued. And she

00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:22.179
came and stood by me and says, no, you've got

00:36:22.179 --> 00:36:25.360
this. Well, actually, this is the beauty of her

00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:29.219
coaching. At first, she says, I've got you. Because

00:36:29.219 --> 00:36:33.099
when you're broken, you don't see the way out.

00:36:33.519 --> 00:36:35.880
So somebody who's got some strength and a little

00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:38.340
more faith, a little more connections, I got

00:36:38.340 --> 00:36:41.840
you. And then it's, we got this. And then pretty

00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:45.400
soon as you got this, and you know what? I've

00:36:45.400 --> 00:36:48.360
got it. We've got it. It's beautiful. When you

00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:50.400
tell you felt broken, I want to tell me more

00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:54.329
about that. I just think I didn't think I could

00:36:54.329 --> 00:36:58.469
carry on. This is after COVID started? Yeah,

00:36:58.510 --> 00:37:03.730
I was still in practice. Go back a little. You

00:37:03.730 --> 00:37:05.429
didn't think you could carry on. What does that

00:37:05.429 --> 00:37:07.449
mean? I didn't think I was going to be able to

00:37:07.449 --> 00:37:11.150
hold it all together. The practice with the economics

00:37:11.150 --> 00:37:16.050
of it, the marriage. Pressure. The pressure.

00:37:16.329 --> 00:37:21.010
Yeah, I was cracking. I was cracking. I kind

00:37:21.010 --> 00:37:24.130
of also have to say, I was feeling like if I

00:37:24.130 --> 00:37:27.989
kept on that path, I wasn't going to last long.

00:37:28.190 --> 00:37:30.929
Now you hear these people who die. Now I wouldn't

00:37:30.929 --> 00:37:32.949
have been suicide for me, but what the health

00:37:32.949 --> 00:37:34.929
was just going to not hold up. Heart attack.

00:37:35.050 --> 00:37:38.090
Yeah. Heart attack, stroke, something. So she

00:37:38.090 --> 00:37:41.530
was your lifeline. Yeah. She gave you that support

00:37:41.530 --> 00:37:44.750
that you needed along with God and prayers and

00:37:44.750 --> 00:37:47.550
help you connect and stay firm. It grounded you.

00:37:47.889 --> 00:37:52.570
Oh yeah. Yeah. Just to feel, okay, I'm back,

00:37:52.750 --> 00:37:56.489
like that kind of thing? Oh, no. Okay, you're

00:37:56.489 --> 00:37:58.550
going to make me go somewhere. She's back there

00:37:58.550 --> 00:38:02.250
listening. Let's do it. Let's go there. So she

00:38:02.250 --> 00:38:07.289
will say it to anybody and tease that I wouldn't

00:38:07.289 --> 00:38:09.250
have had anything to do with you 10 years ago.

00:38:09.869 --> 00:38:15.650
I was arrogant, pompous, know -it -all. I'm like...

00:38:15.869 --> 00:38:18.309
acting like i'm god i'm spinning around these

00:38:18.309 --> 00:38:20.349
rooms answering everybody's questions like i

00:38:20.349 --> 00:38:24.110
know everything and um got my youtube channel

00:38:24.110 --> 00:38:27.090
i got my vaccine friendly plan book i'm an author

00:38:27.090 --> 00:38:29.989
i'm a blah blah blah and my your ego is like

00:38:29.989 --> 00:38:33.929
out of control how can you have she said you

00:38:33.929 --> 00:38:38.559
were an and so Part of what happened, the combination,

00:38:38.739 --> 00:38:40.300
everything I was going through, but she also

00:38:40.300 --> 00:38:43.400
was hard hitting. She was not soft. She's tough

00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:46.559
cookie. I like her. None of this ego stuff. It's

00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:49.860
got to go. She humbled you. Oh, yeah. This humbled

00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:51.500
you. This whole experience humbled you. But she

00:38:51.500 --> 00:38:55.079
made sure and made sure that I was coming out

00:38:55.079 --> 00:39:01.800
a genuine, real, loving, humble. You know, God

00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:04.519
-seeking, God -connecting person, which is a

00:39:04.519 --> 00:39:08.420
beautiful thing. What an amazing outcome from

00:39:08.420 --> 00:39:11.460
where I was to where I am now. The fact that

00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:15.179
giving up my license was actually the final ticket

00:39:15.179 --> 00:39:18.400
of freedom. I didn't give up the fight. A gift,

00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:20.039
in a way. Oh, it was a huge gift. I mean, we're

00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:22.719
still suing the medical board. It's at the Third

00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:25.400
Circuit Court, maybe to the Supreme Court. It

00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:28.389
probably won't go anywhere. No, man, if there's

00:39:28.389 --> 00:39:30.630
something different than that, it's going to

00:39:30.630 --> 00:39:33.789
go wherever it needs to go. We're putting this

00:39:33.789 --> 00:39:36.489
in God's hands and we'll see what happens. Everything

00:39:36.489 --> 00:39:39.949
could change. Yes, it could. I will tell you,

00:39:39.989 --> 00:39:43.469
prayer has got me through a lot as well. Prayers

00:39:43.469 --> 00:39:45.989
and meditation. She's very angry. I would say,

00:39:46.050 --> 00:39:51.510
God, I know you've selected me for a reason.

00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:55.360
To be that person that stands in front because,

00:39:55.460 --> 00:39:57.860
A, you're strengthening my soul and you've chosen

00:39:57.860 --> 00:40:00.340
me because you know I can do it. And please tell

00:40:00.340 --> 00:40:04.480
David to get his head out of his ass. And everybody

00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:07.139
else get their head out of their ass. Yeah. Only

00:40:07.139 --> 00:40:12.500
they would listen. You know, I knew, the more

00:40:12.500 --> 00:40:16.880
I prayed, I knew that this was all. For the right

00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:19.360
reason. And, you know, what are your feelings

00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:22.079
now that you surrendered your license? You said,

00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:24.059
you know, take it. I don't need this piece of

00:40:24.059 --> 00:40:26.059
paper. I don't want it back, by the way. Even

00:40:26.059 --> 00:40:27.559
if they gave it back to me, I don't want it.

00:40:27.739 --> 00:40:30.460
Because it means they're in control. They're

00:40:30.460 --> 00:40:34.019
rules. They control you. No, never again. I want

00:40:34.019 --> 00:40:36.039
to always be able to speak the truth. I was put,

00:40:36.139 --> 00:40:40.099
I truly believe, if you think about it, how is

00:40:40.099 --> 00:40:43.360
it that... So few of us pediatricians, I mean,

00:40:43.380 --> 00:40:47.039
one of the very few was put in a position to

00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:51.039
have fully vaccinated kids, a whole bunch of

00:40:51.039 --> 00:40:53.079
vaccine friendly plans, partially vaccinated

00:40:53.079 --> 00:40:56.360
kids, and then a growing massive number of unvaccinated

00:40:56.360 --> 00:41:00.719
kids. And I get to see it all. Yeah. Most pediatricians

00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:03.780
don't see it. You were served a purpose. I was

00:41:03.780 --> 00:41:06.280
put in this place with the background of my training

00:41:06.280 --> 00:41:08.219
that my parents provided me in Africa. Yeah.

00:41:08.809 --> 00:41:10.929
To question authority and to keep seeking for

00:41:10.929 --> 00:41:13.329
the truth and to stand up for what's right. Yeah.

00:41:13.510 --> 00:41:16.630
And then to see it. And then thank you, board,

00:41:16.769 --> 00:41:19.269
for asking me to prove that the vaccine friendly

00:41:19.269 --> 00:41:21.809
plan was as safe as the CDC schedule. When I

00:41:21.809 --> 00:41:24.250
got that letter, I'm going, you got to be kidding

00:41:24.250 --> 00:41:26.769
me. I was like, I can't. This is ridiculous.

00:41:26.989 --> 00:41:29.610
The CDC doesn't even prove that one schedule

00:41:29.610 --> 00:41:31.650
one year is any better than the next. I was pissed.

00:41:32.090 --> 00:41:35.079
You had to prove it. Based on your data, and

00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:37.300
you hired an independent person to prove it.

00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:39.739
That was proven, and then again, you were canceled

00:41:39.739 --> 00:41:42.320
again for proving it based on real data. Got

00:41:42.320 --> 00:41:44.920
published online within three to five days. I

00:41:44.920 --> 00:41:46.719
get a call from my attorney, Paul, you cannot

00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:48.840
go to your clinic, you cannot contact any patients,

00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:51.519
you cannot write any prescriptions. You're done.

00:41:52.280 --> 00:41:57.219
When was this? This was, let's see, February

00:41:57.219 --> 00:42:01.309
of 2019 was the letter to... So I proved it in

00:42:01.309 --> 00:42:05.489
November of 2018. So 20 was December of 2019.

00:42:07.550 --> 00:42:09.769
Okay. So hold on. They asked you to prove it.

00:42:09.809 --> 00:42:12.210
You proved it. I proved it. And then all of a

00:42:12.210 --> 00:42:16.469
sudden. A threat to public health. How do you

00:42:16.469 --> 00:42:18.869
feel about that? When you got that letter? Another.

00:42:19.010 --> 00:42:23.090
Oh my God. I'm done this time. You're just getting

00:42:23.090 --> 00:42:26.010
whipped. Yeah. They can't be this time. But I

00:42:26.010 --> 00:42:27.730
want to feel the feelings when you're reading

00:42:27.730 --> 00:42:31.300
that letter. Oh, just defeat. You thought you

00:42:31.300 --> 00:42:34.519
won. Right. Because you actually were like, hey,

00:42:34.619 --> 00:42:38.719
world, I've proved it. Oh, okay. You proved it

00:42:38.719 --> 00:42:41.460
with your data. There was a research paper published

00:42:41.460 --> 00:42:44.000
that later got retracted. But I want you to,

00:42:44.019 --> 00:42:46.380
in your mind, go back to you reading that letter.

00:42:46.420 --> 00:42:48.320
What did you feel? What was going through your

00:42:48.320 --> 00:42:52.599
mind? Did you become suicidal or depressed? Where

00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:55.460
did you go? I never was obviously depressed,

00:42:55.619 --> 00:43:00.659
but it was very depressing and very overwhelming.

00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:05.400
I remember driving in the country, and this is

00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:07.380
a funny story. So I'm driving in the country

00:43:07.380 --> 00:43:09.440
just trying to clear my head. I like being on

00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:11.840
the road and just having it clears my mind. I

00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:15.659
can't remember if I was on a motorcycle. I think

00:43:15.659 --> 00:43:19.079
I was in the car. I'm listening to a song. Running

00:43:19.079 --> 00:43:22.719
against the wind. Bob Seger. And I'm thinking,

00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:26.699
that's it. It's a sign. I'm going to start a

00:43:26.699 --> 00:43:29.099
show and we're going to call it Against the Wind.

00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:32.519
And I started right away with my show, which

00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:34.219
gave me a new purpose and a new direction. I

00:43:34.219 --> 00:43:35.559
had all this time. There's nothing else I could

00:43:35.559 --> 00:43:37.320
do. I couldn't see patients. I couldn't call

00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:39.519
patients. There's some unwinding things I had

00:43:39.519 --> 00:43:41.940
to do because I had at that time, I also had

00:43:41.940 --> 00:43:43.619
an addiction clinic. I was helping people get

00:43:43.619 --> 00:43:46.300
off of opiates. And to do that, we used the tool

00:43:46.300 --> 00:43:49.469
Suboxone, buprenorphine. And it's a partial agonist,

00:43:49.469 --> 00:43:51.650
partial antagonist. So it allows them to not

00:43:51.650 --> 00:43:53.590
go through withdrawal, but still have a little

00:43:53.590 --> 00:43:56.329
bit of an opiate effect so that they can't get

00:43:56.329 --> 00:43:58.929
high from it. But it can help you wean off. So

00:43:58.929 --> 00:44:02.750
I was having great success with that. I wasn't

00:44:02.750 --> 00:44:05.710
allowed to write him a prescription. I had about

00:44:05.710 --> 00:44:09.409
30, 40 patients. I was just, sorry, good luck.

00:44:09.980 --> 00:44:11.420
And now they're going to go through withdrawal

00:44:11.420 --> 00:44:13.199
because they don't have their meds. That felt

00:44:13.199 --> 00:44:15.440
horrible. So I scrambled to help find them people

00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:19.519
to go to. And then I started working on the new

00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:22.320
show. So that gave me my new direction. I'm going

00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:25.019
to fight now. This is wrong. Now I went back

00:44:25.019 --> 00:44:29.900
into fight mode. I'm not laying down. This is

00:44:29.900 --> 00:44:33.480
it. You know what? You pushed me. What else can

00:44:33.480 --> 00:44:35.360
you do? You already took my license. So what

00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:38.809
are you going to do to me? So, okay. At home,

00:44:38.829 --> 00:44:40.070
sometimes when I'm feeling a lot of pressure,

00:44:40.090 --> 00:44:44.010
I snap, you know, at the kids or Layla or whatever.

00:44:44.070 --> 00:44:48.050
And if there's anything going on at home, it's

00:44:48.050 --> 00:44:55.130
like you regret. I see at that point. Were you

00:44:55.130 --> 00:44:58.530
getting a divorce then or at what point did that

00:44:58.530 --> 00:45:00.849
happen? And did the divorce ultimately happen

00:45:00.849 --> 00:45:03.349
because you were like, okay, we're going, your

00:45:03.349 --> 00:45:07.320
purpose and my purpose is not aligned. What went

00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:12.059
down there? There was some personal family stuff

00:45:12.059 --> 00:45:16.280
that was the last straw for me on that one. So

00:45:16.280 --> 00:45:21.860
I had four adopted kids from Zimbabwe. And over

00:45:21.860 --> 00:45:25.659
the years, my wife then had just been unable

00:45:25.659 --> 00:45:29.280
to really love them and accept them as our own.

00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:32.380
The way I grew up in Africa in the village, I

00:45:32.380 --> 00:45:35.070
mean, It doesn't matter the color of your skin.

00:45:35.210 --> 00:45:36.650
It doesn't matter where. I mean, you could be

00:45:36.650 --> 00:45:38.030
walking down the street, and it's dinnertime,

00:45:38.250 --> 00:45:40.170
and you get welcomed in. It's an open, you know,

00:45:40.190 --> 00:45:43.030
it's the true village. It was beautiful. That's

00:45:43.030 --> 00:45:46.510
how I was raised. So our house was a revolving

00:45:46.510 --> 00:45:48.989
door of people, plus we actually adopted these

00:45:48.989 --> 00:45:53.170
kids. And, yeah, when she wasn't willing, they

00:45:53.170 --> 00:45:55.489
were no longer willing to even come to our house,

00:45:55.570 --> 00:45:59.110
two of the four. And then the third one came

00:45:59.110 --> 00:46:01.289
and was sent away, wasn't allowed in the house.

00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:04.780
I can't go on like this. That's not me. You're

00:46:04.780 --> 00:46:07.219
just a man of integrity all the way around. Well,

00:46:07.380 --> 00:46:11.380
I'm no saint or angel for sure. But that was

00:46:11.380 --> 00:46:13.260
not going to sit well with my soul. At this point,

00:46:13.280 --> 00:46:16.599
I'm trying to really become more about love.

00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:19.920
And I can't even have my kids in my home. So

00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:21.760
it was a complete disconnect. That's when my

00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:24.039
mom said, just do a separation. And so I did.

00:46:24.780 --> 00:46:27.559
So Dee Dee brought your attention to your...

00:46:27.820 --> 00:46:35.820
Huge ego. Was that a process to knowing awareness?

00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:38.980
Yeah, she had to beat on it quite a bit. And

00:46:38.980 --> 00:46:42.039
when it would try to raise its little head, she'd

00:46:42.039 --> 00:46:46.039
stop and do it again. Ego's very powerful. It

00:46:46.039 --> 00:46:48.199
is. It's very destructive, too. I still will

00:46:48.199 --> 00:46:50.960
try to sometimes slip into it, and she'll remind

00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:55.199
me. I don't slip as often anymore. We're all

00:46:55.199 --> 00:46:59.329
about love and connection, too. Yeah. Right?

00:46:59.469 --> 00:47:02.550
Yeah, absolutely. So what I want to know is,

00:47:02.769 --> 00:47:06.789
okay, so Didi helped you. God helped you. You

00:47:06.789 --> 00:47:10.949
know, the coaching, having that rock. Now that

00:47:10.949 --> 00:47:14.849
you didn't have a license anymore and you decided

00:47:14.849 --> 00:47:18.809
to go into coaching, tell me, like, what did

00:47:18.809 --> 00:47:21.289
that feel like? Was it a relief? Did you feel

00:47:21.289 --> 00:47:25.199
like... Take us there. Massive relief the moment

00:47:25.199 --> 00:47:27.360
I made the decision to, here, you can have it.

00:47:27.820 --> 00:47:30.820
And thankfully, my attorney was able to negotiate.

00:47:30.820 --> 00:47:33.880
They released all charges in exchange for the

00:47:33.880 --> 00:47:37.739
license. So clean slate. You can have it. Everything's

00:47:37.739 --> 00:47:40.440
dropped. They got what they wanted. They wanted

00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:42.539
me out of practice. They wanted you out because

00:47:42.539 --> 00:47:45.980
you had a big mouth. Yeah. And you were not afraid

00:47:45.980 --> 00:47:48.199
to speak the truth, and you were not afraid to

00:47:48.199 --> 00:47:49.420
go out. I'd been speaking at rallies. I spoke

00:47:49.420 --> 00:47:52.239
at the Capitol. I spoke at the, yeah, all over

00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:56.400
the place. They tried to silence you. Yeah. You

00:47:56.400 --> 00:48:00.360
know, the story's not over. No. Things are very

00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:03.539
much in a state of flux right now with the new

00:48:03.539 --> 00:48:09.679
administration. Right. Who knows? who knows what

00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:13.719
can transpire. Absolutely. I mean, we may be

00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:16.679
called for even greater things, right? We have

00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:19.820
these poor kids who are still going into pediatric

00:48:19.820 --> 00:48:23.639
offices and getting hammered with so many toxic

00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:28.760
vaccines. And I mean, it's... It's their choice,

00:48:28.900 --> 00:48:30.619
right? It's parents' choice to do what they want

00:48:30.619 --> 00:48:33.079
to do, but they don't know. I just want people

00:48:33.079 --> 00:48:36.139
educated so they can truly make an informed choice.

00:48:36.619 --> 00:48:40.059
Informed consent is the ethical principle upon

00:48:40.059 --> 00:48:42.340
which all medicine should be based. You should

00:48:42.340 --> 00:48:45.219
not take a medical procedure without being informed

00:48:45.219 --> 00:48:48.239
of the risks and the benefits. And do no harm,

00:48:48.239 --> 00:48:51.400
which is a Hippocratic oath. Preferably first,

00:48:51.460 --> 00:48:53.659
do no harm, right? Especially when you're taking

00:48:53.659 --> 00:48:58.460
a well, healthy, natural immune system. And you

00:48:58.460 --> 00:49:02.440
bring them to a toxic slew of products that is

00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:06.420
going to almost certainly change the toxic slew.

00:49:06.460 --> 00:49:10.519
Do you ever lie in bed awake at night? Like,

00:49:10.579 --> 00:49:14.039
why is this happening to me? Why? Trying to find

00:49:14.039 --> 00:49:18.179
a purpose in all of this? I mean, I suppose in

00:49:18.179 --> 00:49:23.059
a way a lot. I sleep pretty easily, so I'm blessed

00:49:23.059 --> 00:49:26.130
in that way. But there would be times where the

00:49:26.130 --> 00:49:29.690
brain wouldn't turn off, especially during the

00:49:29.690 --> 00:49:33.349
moments when it's all falling apart. You know,

00:49:33.369 --> 00:49:36.650
the practice is going to go down. The marriage

00:49:36.650 --> 00:49:40.550
is going to go down. The income is going to zero.

00:49:41.449 --> 00:49:43.769
How am I going to support my life, my family

00:49:43.769 --> 00:49:46.510
and all that? And then you try to process and

00:49:46.510 --> 00:49:48.530
I'm a creative thinker, but I can't find solutions.

00:49:48.530 --> 00:49:51.150
So you keep spin, spin. Yeah, there are plenty

00:49:51.150 --> 00:49:54.730
of sleepless nights or at least. What do you

00:49:54.730 --> 00:49:57.809
think the big grand design is? What is this all

00:49:57.809 --> 00:50:01.550
about for you and your journey? Any insight?

00:50:01.710 --> 00:50:05.429
Maybe we just don't know yet. You know, I know

00:50:05.429 --> 00:50:11.170
I feel very called to represent the kids who

00:50:11.170 --> 00:50:16.230
don't have a voice. I feel blessed to have love

00:50:16.230 --> 00:50:18.610
in my life. I have a roof over my head and food

00:50:18.610 --> 00:50:23.599
in my belly too much. And I'm happy. And so many

00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:29.860
people are not. And because of the unique way

00:50:29.860 --> 00:50:33.159
I was able to figure out what's happening and

00:50:33.159 --> 00:50:36.219
the exposures I had to what has happened to so

00:50:36.219 --> 00:50:38.739
many unfortunate children who've been harmed,

00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:43.659
I have a duty. I have a responsibility. If I

00:50:43.659 --> 00:50:47.320
let my knowledge just disappear with a whimper,

00:50:47.420 --> 00:50:51.369
who else is going to do it? Yeah. Who else can

00:50:51.369 --> 00:50:53.909
do it? Who else has had the opportunity to see

00:50:53.909 --> 00:50:58.570
what I've seen, know what I know firsthand? I

00:50:58.570 --> 00:51:01.090
mean, this is not hearsay. Most people are reading

00:51:01.090 --> 00:51:03.849
things in books or journals and trying to decipher.

00:51:04.250 --> 00:51:08.130
I got to live this. I have a responsibility.

00:51:08.789 --> 00:51:11.849
I feel like amazing things are ahead, are in

00:51:11.849 --> 00:51:14.510
store for you. I just feel it. I felt it from

00:51:14.510 --> 00:51:16.869
the moment I met you that you're just, you're

00:51:16.869 --> 00:51:20.739
a good soul. I've always loved your courage and

00:51:20.739 --> 00:51:22.699
your strength. I know we've had many conversations

00:51:22.699 --> 00:51:25.059
over the past few years and you've always been

00:51:25.059 --> 00:51:28.269
somebody that I've admired. That really is taking

00:51:28.269 --> 00:51:30.849
a stance for our kids. And we need more people

00:51:30.849 --> 00:51:33.090
like you to take that stance. Well, you two have

00:51:33.090 --> 00:51:36.050
taken some nice stances, too. I really love the

00:51:36.050 --> 00:51:38.510
COVID one when we're all like trembling with,

00:51:38.550 --> 00:51:40.289
oh, this COVID is going to get us. And you're

00:51:40.289 --> 00:51:45.050
like, forget COVID. Forget the plexiglass. The

00:51:45.050 --> 00:51:47.090
present moment. What are you doing now? You're

00:51:47.090 --> 00:51:49.849
providing pediatric coaching to families. And

00:51:49.849 --> 00:51:53.110
if anybody wants to connect with you. How would

00:51:53.110 --> 00:51:55.369
they do that? Yeah, so they just go to kidsfirstforever

00:51:55.369 --> 00:51:59.090
.com. Kids first forever. We can put that slide

00:51:59.090 --> 00:52:01.570
on the screen. Both DeeDee and I offer coaching.

00:52:02.309 --> 00:52:06.750
I coach mostly on the vaccine issue. It's surprising

00:52:06.750 --> 00:52:09.449
how many, well, probably not surprising, you

00:52:09.449 --> 00:52:12.090
know, because you own a school. But so many parents

00:52:12.090 --> 00:52:15.690
still don't quite understand the choices and

00:52:15.690 --> 00:52:18.130
they're afraid to do none. But what about those

00:52:18.130 --> 00:52:20.710
diseases? Because they just don't have all the

00:52:20.710 --> 00:52:24.440
information. Or you have one parent wants one

00:52:24.440 --> 00:52:27.059
thing and another parent wants the other. So

00:52:27.059 --> 00:52:29.460
in that instance, how do they come together?

00:52:29.539 --> 00:52:33.679
And so I can take those situations and walk them

00:52:33.679 --> 00:52:38.579
through what I experienced firsthand, then the

00:52:38.579 --> 00:52:42.199
data, lots more data. And then what I do is I

00:52:42.199 --> 00:52:45.539
do basically an informed consent process where

00:52:45.539 --> 00:52:48.090
I say, all right, let's. Let's start with pregnancy.

00:52:48.329 --> 00:52:50.590
Did you do any vaccines? Let's talk about the

00:52:50.590 --> 00:52:52.289
ones that would be given in pregnancy. What are

00:52:52.289 --> 00:52:54.010
the risks? What are the benefits? All right,

00:52:54.010 --> 00:52:57.030
let's go to the newborn, Hep B. Here's the story

00:52:57.030 --> 00:53:00.400
with Hep B. It's all risk, no benefit. I walk

00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:02.480
them through all the vaccines. Straight up informed

00:53:02.480 --> 00:53:04.440
consent. So ultimately they make the decision.

00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:06.780
They make the decision. I make it very clear

00:53:06.780 --> 00:53:09.699
for every single coaching session. I'm not licensed.

00:53:09.920 --> 00:53:12.099
I don't diagnose. I don't treat. They can meet

00:53:12.099 --> 00:53:15.000
his professor, Dr. Paul, and I'm giving you information.

00:53:15.059 --> 00:53:18.300
You get to decide. Decide for themselves. Yes.

00:53:18.340 --> 00:53:20.559
Yeah. You should decide. Critical thinking. I

00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:23.440
think we kind of lost that. Right. yeah so that's

00:53:23.440 --> 00:53:25.679
that's what i'm doing i'm speaking when i when

00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:28.360
it works out to to do so to share share this

00:53:28.360 --> 00:53:31.179
information to a broader audience so you have

00:53:31.179 --> 00:53:35.159
uh nine kids i do yeah um do you ever come home

00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:39.340
and have a bad day and um everybody's like looking

00:53:39.340 --> 00:53:42.340
at you and like what's that all about why is

00:53:42.340 --> 00:53:45.139
having a bad day and or were your kids were they

00:53:45.139 --> 00:53:47.579
on your side were they against you or are they

00:53:47.579 --> 00:53:50.139
like dad what are you doing you're impacting

00:53:51.079 --> 00:53:54.019
our food supply like what so they were out of

00:53:54.019 --> 00:53:56.960
the house by the time i was going through this

00:53:56.960 --> 00:54:00.099
so you got to remember i'm like 67 years old

00:54:00.099 --> 00:54:05.400
my youngest is 28. um this battle is recent right

00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:09.940
so um We were past that they're in the house

00:54:09.940 --> 00:54:12.280
so that it wasn't an active thing with them.

00:54:12.519 --> 00:54:14.599
I do have a story. You have the nester basically?

00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:16.880
Basically, yes. But I do have a story about the

00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:20.840
kids and being canceled. Sure, tell us. So you

00:54:20.840 --> 00:54:23.039
guys heard of Black Lives Matter. Of course.

00:54:23.579 --> 00:54:29.199
I have four black children. I grew up in an African

00:54:29.199 --> 00:54:32.239
village where I spoke Shona, the African language.

00:54:32.599 --> 00:54:36.599
I dreamt in Shona. I had an African accent, which

00:54:36.599 --> 00:54:38.920
I can throw out at any time and sound African

00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:41.280
to this day. In fact, I sound more African when

00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:44.239
I do that than they are. They actually grew up

00:54:44.239 --> 00:54:46.480
a little bit in the village, but more in the

00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:52.960
city. Basically, what I'm saying is I still feel

00:54:52.960 --> 00:54:56.219
like I'm an African just in white skin. All right.

00:54:56.260 --> 00:54:59.639
So when Black Lives rolls through, my kids have

00:54:59.639 --> 00:55:01.380
all gone through college and gone through the

00:55:01.380 --> 00:55:06.760
indoctrination in college. And I had two of my

00:55:06.760 --> 00:55:10.659
kids say, I can never understand because I'm

00:55:10.659 --> 00:55:15.599
white. You can't understand. I had one of them

00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:17.420
say, you know, there's going to be casualties

00:55:17.420 --> 00:55:20.840
in this war. And sometimes, you know, if a white

00:55:20.840 --> 00:55:25.489
person has to die, it's a war. I had them say,

00:55:25.550 --> 00:55:27.989
you failed us because you were white. Your own

00:55:27.989 --> 00:55:33.030
children. My own children. And experienced a

00:55:33.030 --> 00:55:38.250
basic disconnect cancellation for a while. From

00:55:38.250 --> 00:55:41.409
your own kids. Clearly, some of it was in college.

00:55:41.429 --> 00:55:44.130
And the cancellation wasn't over the vaccines.

00:55:44.210 --> 00:55:46.590
It was over the indoctrination was happening

00:55:46.590 --> 00:55:49.469
in the school and the colleges, which kids are

00:55:49.469 --> 00:55:52.469
experiencing across the nation. I mean, if there's

00:55:52.469 --> 00:55:58.469
a guy who understands African culture, I'm up

00:55:58.469 --> 00:56:02.099
there. So basically the school was canceling

00:56:02.099 --> 00:56:04.699
you as a father by turning your children against

00:56:04.699 --> 00:56:07.079
you. The cancellation of their own father. Yeah,

00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:09.699
that one was tough. That one was tough. I mean,

00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:11.440
I even went to a couple of Black Lives Matter

00:56:11.440 --> 00:56:13.539
rallies. I wanted to see what was going on. I

00:56:13.539 --> 00:56:16.400
even marched in the streets, you know? I mean,

00:56:16.420 --> 00:56:18.590
I'm not a... Proud to say it, but I was trying

00:56:18.590 --> 00:56:21.909
to figure out what is going on. What is going

00:56:21.909 --> 00:56:24.650
on? And did you have an aha moment of, oh my

00:56:24.650 --> 00:56:27.210
gosh, this is all part of the indoctrination

00:56:27.210 --> 00:56:30.050
of brainwashing? I kind of started realizing

00:56:30.050 --> 00:56:32.230
something wasn't right with that. We should have

00:56:32.230 --> 00:56:34.489
had a whole episode on this. That could have

00:56:34.489 --> 00:56:35.969
been another whole episode. I get these other

00:56:35.969 --> 00:56:37.389
stuff. Have me back. This is more interesting.

00:56:37.670 --> 00:56:39.710
Yeah, you can have me back. My guy canceled.

00:56:40.510 --> 00:56:43.510
By his own kids because of college, you know?

00:56:43.809 --> 00:56:49.099
Yeah. What was it? How did you put it? You're

00:56:49.099 --> 00:56:52.280
a black guy in white skin. I'm a black African

00:56:52.280 --> 00:56:57.360
in white skin. Cancel it. I could visualize you

00:56:57.360 --> 00:56:59.659
as a kid in the village running around. I was

00:56:59.659 --> 00:57:03.300
the cutest little kid. Oh, I don't know about

00:57:03.300 --> 00:57:05.719
cute, but I stood out like a sore thumb, that's

00:57:05.719 --> 00:57:09.159
for sure. But no, in the street when I'm a preteen,

00:57:09.159 --> 00:57:13.949
early teen. realize my whole upbringing was in

00:57:13.949 --> 00:57:16.090
the Shona culture and speaking the Shona language.

00:57:16.389 --> 00:57:18.289
And then I had to go to a white school, sure,

00:57:18.489 --> 00:57:20.030
because I had to, but then I still went home

00:57:20.030 --> 00:57:22.949
and played with my African friends. So if I'm

00:57:22.949 --> 00:57:25.489
walking down the street and coming towards me,

00:57:25.489 --> 00:57:28.710
I'm like, say, 11th, 12th. Coming towards me

00:57:28.710 --> 00:57:32.750
are two or three white guys who are like 15,

00:57:32.829 --> 00:57:36.769
16. That's very threatening if you don't understand

00:57:36.769 --> 00:57:39.170
the culture. Guess what I would do? I would cross

00:57:39.170 --> 00:57:41.230
the street and walk with the black people that

00:57:41.230 --> 00:57:43.250
were walking on that side of the street, my African

00:57:43.250 --> 00:57:46.309
homies. We didn't use the word homies, but you

00:57:46.309 --> 00:57:48.590
know what I'm saying. That was where I was comfortable.

00:57:48.690 --> 00:57:51.510
That was where I was safe. So that's why it kind

00:57:51.510 --> 00:57:55.510
of did sting when my own kids were like, oh,

00:57:55.550 --> 00:57:58.869
you have white fragility. Oh, how do you fight

00:57:58.869 --> 00:58:02.949
that? Have you worked this out? We're coming

00:58:02.949 --> 00:58:06.039
along. Yeah, we've come along pretty far with

00:58:06.039 --> 00:58:09.820
one and a half of a four. It's always something,

00:58:09.980 --> 00:58:13.820
kids. Yeah, so that was just an aside with the

00:58:13.820 --> 00:58:17.559
kids that's obviously in the realm of cancellation.

00:58:17.960 --> 00:58:20.780
That whole cancel culture was... That was a white

00:58:20.780 --> 00:58:22.940
cancellation. That was something. Yeah. Yeah,

00:58:22.940 --> 00:58:26.659
that was something. Well, the world seems to

00:58:26.659 --> 00:58:29.840
be understanding a lot more about that, you know,

00:58:29.860 --> 00:58:32.960
just the big... indoctrination that's happening

00:58:32.960 --> 00:58:35.500
in colleges. And I try and educate parents to

00:58:35.500 --> 00:58:37.900
make sure you know where your kids are going

00:58:37.900 --> 00:58:41.519
to school because I've had parents tell me this

00:58:41.519 --> 00:58:44.539
story from their white children that would come

00:58:44.539 --> 00:58:47.739
to them saying, you don't understand LGBTQ or

00:58:47.739 --> 00:58:49.940
you don't understand Black Lives Matter. You're

00:58:49.940 --> 00:58:51.380
like, what do you mean? You're white. What are

00:58:51.380 --> 00:58:54.639
you talking about? I mean, to the defense of,

00:58:54.699 --> 00:58:59.570
say, my African kids, they were... On point when

00:58:59.570 --> 00:59:01.849
they described to me what they go through in

00:59:01.849 --> 00:59:05.329
Oregon. If you're black, you're driving in rural

00:59:05.329 --> 00:59:08.510
Oregon. So my daughter's driving, they pull up

00:59:08.510 --> 00:59:10.190
to a gas station and they wouldn't serve them

00:59:10.190 --> 00:59:13.469
gas. They said, oh, we're out. A white person

00:59:13.469 --> 00:59:16.710
drives up and they serve them gas. You can't

00:59:16.710 --> 00:59:19.949
pump your own in Oregon back then. And they're

00:59:19.949 --> 00:59:23.369
thinking they're going to run out of gas in a...

00:59:23.579 --> 00:59:25.739
dangerous area where they don't know if they're

00:59:25.739 --> 00:59:27.539
going to live. They don't have fear of their

00:59:27.539 --> 00:59:29.400
own lives. Or if you get pulled over by a cop,

00:59:29.559 --> 00:59:33.460
they know to put their hands up on the steering

00:59:33.460 --> 00:59:35.900
wheel and they don't move them. And if they're

00:59:35.900 --> 00:59:37.739
asked for their ID, they go, well, it's there,

00:59:37.880 --> 00:59:40.280
but I don't want to move my hands and be shot.

00:59:41.019 --> 00:59:43.739
Afraid for their lives. I don't have those. Right.

00:59:43.820 --> 00:59:46.780
So they have that perspective. So there is definitely

00:59:46.780 --> 00:59:49.119
something there and there's something to, one

00:59:49.119 --> 00:59:52.949
of my, my African daughter is, Her whole expertise

00:59:52.949 --> 00:59:56.989
is diversity. That's what she does. I mean, she's

00:59:56.989 --> 00:59:59.289
done diversity training around the world for

00:59:59.289 --> 01:00:02.090
major companies. I mean, she's up there in that

01:00:02.090 --> 01:00:05.889
world. Yeah. And, you know, historically there

01:00:05.889 --> 01:00:08.010
have been disadvantages to certain populations,

01:00:08.230 --> 01:00:10.409
whether you're a woman or a person. I just want

01:00:10.409 --> 01:00:13.210
to hit this for a second. Yeah. Because you're

01:00:13.210 --> 01:00:16.650
this guy who sees no color. Right. And so from

01:00:16.650 --> 01:00:19.880
your perspective, you see no color. And they

01:00:19.880 --> 01:00:22.440
said that was the problem. Yeah. But I see if

01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:25.280
I don't see color, then you can't understand

01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:29.179
us. But if you don't see color, what my husband

01:00:29.179 --> 01:00:31.059
said, I want to interrupt you for a second. You

01:00:31.059 --> 01:00:33.780
don't see color. You don't see me. No, but I

01:00:33.780 --> 01:00:35.420
want to interrupt you for a second, because at

01:00:35.420 --> 01:00:37.559
our school, at Centner Academy, we teach our

01:00:37.559 --> 01:00:40.519
kids to not see color. To just see each other's

01:00:40.519 --> 01:00:44.519
souls. To know that we're all God's creatures.

01:00:44.719 --> 01:00:46.179
It doesn't matter. Martin Luther King said the

01:00:46.179 --> 01:00:50.239
same thing. And I was raised that way. But that

01:00:50.239 --> 01:00:53.019
particular movement distorted things. Yes. I

01:00:53.019 --> 01:00:55.280
don't support that movement. I'm all about we're

01:00:55.280 --> 01:00:58.599
one. We have to get back to love. We have to

01:00:58.599 --> 01:01:03.860
get back to love and souls. So I have a question.

01:01:05.579 --> 01:01:09.610
At any point in time, During this whole cancellation,

01:01:09.909 --> 01:01:11.889
were you just like, you know what? Screw it.

01:01:12.190 --> 01:01:14.269
I'm throwing in the towel. I'm just going to

01:01:14.269 --> 01:01:16.849
conform with the medical board. I'm going to

01:01:16.849 --> 01:01:19.829
conform at any point in time. I know for me,

01:01:19.849 --> 01:01:22.489
I was like. Go back to vaccinate? Oh, hell no.

01:01:22.989 --> 01:01:28.289
Yes. No, no, no, no, no. I could not even fathom

01:01:28.289 --> 01:01:33.909
that. I was walking into exam rooms to help finish

01:01:33.909 --> 01:01:37.019
the process of informed consent. And by the time

01:01:37.019 --> 01:01:40.860
I was done, this family that was going to vaccinate

01:01:40.860 --> 01:01:44.619
and pay me several hundred dollars in bonuses

01:01:44.619 --> 01:01:47.960
that would have come from that is now not vaccinating.

01:01:48.500 --> 01:01:50.340
And I would walk out and just sort of smile,

01:01:50.460 --> 01:01:52.920
thinking, well, I did my job well. And I'm going.

01:01:53.579 --> 01:01:56.659
This is not a good business plan. Yeah. It's

01:01:56.659 --> 01:01:58.960
an expensive decision. This is not a good business

01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:01.500
model. You know, every room you walk into, you're

01:02:01.500 --> 01:02:03.820
costing yourself money. You need to just stay

01:02:03.820 --> 01:02:07.860
away. I voided over a million dollars in contracts

01:02:07.860 --> 01:02:10.940
because of my stance on COVID. So I did it. I

01:02:10.940 --> 01:02:13.760
heard about that. And it felt good to know that

01:02:13.760 --> 01:02:16.460
I'm working for the big guy upstairs and I'm

01:02:16.460 --> 01:02:18.780
not working for the dollar. And it all comes

01:02:18.780 --> 01:02:21.579
back around. My feeling is it all comes back

01:02:21.579 --> 01:02:24.030
around when you just stay. Firm in integrity,

01:02:24.369 --> 01:02:28.409
and you're doing what's right based on the information

01:02:28.409 --> 01:02:30.230
you have. And that's what I believe you've done.

01:02:30.409 --> 01:02:32.130
Thank you for having me on your show. Dr. Paul

01:02:32.130 --> 01:02:35.389
Thomas, America's favorite pediatrician, most

01:02:35.389 --> 01:02:38.909
beloved pediatrician. You're too kind. Really

01:02:38.909 --> 01:02:40.789
appreciate you being here. Thank you so much

01:02:40.789 --> 01:02:42.949
for your time. Thanks for sharing so openly and

01:02:42.949 --> 01:02:44.789
beautifully from your heart. Thank you. Thank

01:02:44.789 --> 01:02:46.090
you. Thank you for having me on. Thank you.