WEBVTT

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So what hurt the most in all this entire experience?

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What hurt the most was wondering what was going

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to happen if it became public, what happened

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years before with the kids, wondering how they'd

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take it. Because our family's really close. We

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travel together a lot. And that was probably

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the worst part. Because once it all happened,

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it's like, OK, the worst that could happen has

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happened, and it's not so bad. What an exceptionally

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interesting guest we have today, Mr. Jerry Falwell

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Jr. He and his wife have been through the ringer

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over the past number of years. And if there's

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any place for him to come tell his story, it's

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our show Erased, which is the place for people

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to come on and share their emotional journeys

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of cancellation. Thank you for joining us, Jerry.

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It's great to meet you. Thank you for coming

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on. Honored to be with you. Honored to be with

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you, David and Layla. Terrific. So one thing

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that crosses my mind is... What it must be like

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to grow up as the son of Jerry Falwell Sr., an

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extraordinarily well -known global person of

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interest. What's it like to grow up in his shadow

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and try to fill his shoes? It was good in some

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ways and very stressful in other ways. I mean,

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I was always getting teased by other kids because

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my dad was a preacher. And, you know, just they

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all assumed I would be someday. And I wanted

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to be a lawyer. I always did. I went to University

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of Virginia Law School later. start practicing

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in 87. But yeah, it was sort of like living in

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a glass house. And there were so many, I mean,

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I don't know how much you know about Baptists

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in general, but there are a lot of rules associated

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with being Baptist that not necessarily sins

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that are listed in the Bible, but they're just

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things that are considered bad. And so we had

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to grow up just looking over our shoulders all

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the time because we were the preacher's kids.

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And so Certain things, we knew that certain things

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we did, we have a lot higher price to pay than

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others. So it was kind of nerve wracking to be

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honest with you. And you have a brother who's

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a pastor, right? My younger brother, I was, my

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father founded the organization. He started a

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church and then he started a national television,

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became a national television program. He started

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a church in 56 and it was known as the old time

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gospel hour. And back in those days, There were

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only three stations to watch, ABC, NBC, CBS,

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some places PBS. But on Sunday morning, you had

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three choices. And so one -third of the population,

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or almost that much, one -third of the people

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watching TV were watching this program. So it

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became extremely well -known, and he was one

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of the pioneers in religious broadcasting. And

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somewhere along the way, he decided to start

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a college. When he announced it in 1970, I was

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eight years old. I'd heard him talking about

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it before that and gone to visit different campuses

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across the country with him to get ideas. But

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he didn't want to start just a typical Christian

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college. He wanted Liberty to be different from

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every other Christian college. Most of them are

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smaller. They have a limited sports program,

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limited academic programs. But he would always

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say, why can't there be... a college that's the

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equivalent of Notre Dame, world -class facilities,

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world -class athletics, academics, incredible

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world -class campus, just beautiful in every

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way, financially strong. Why can't we have that

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for evangelical Christian young people? Nobody's

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ever done it. They've never done it. And so that

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was his dream, but he never got to see it come

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to fruition. He spent a lot of years working

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so hard. I traveled with him growing up. all

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over the country we'd be in um arenas doing we

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have uh college students with us who would do

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musical performances patriotic performances to

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get the world the word out to the country about

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the new college and um we'd be in arenas in the

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arena next door that might be led zeppelin or

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some other you know i was traveling around on

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buses and and on old world war ii airplanes with

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my dad just um i was sort of the teenager that

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hung around with all the college kids and i grew

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up like uh It was almost like being part of a

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rock band, just on the road constantly with roadies

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and a bunch of college kids. So I early on adopted

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that vision for Liberty University and decided

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to make it happen once I got the chance. So at

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what point did you get involved with the university?

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Is my understanding you were involved as sort

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of like a trustee or on the board of some sorts?

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Well, I was a practicing attorney. And I also

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was a real estate developer. And so I was also

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an attorney for my father's, it was called Old

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Time Gospel, a big ministry, and started in 1988.

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And I became general counsel to the university

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later. And the university back in those days

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was in, I mean, you started a school from scratch.

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You know how challenging it is, Layla. Starting

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a college from scratch in Lynchburg, Virginia.

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No money. I mean, that's pretty much what he

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did. He raised a lot of money on TV through his

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television program with direct mail and with

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television advertising. But by the time he paid

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the airtime on all the stations all over the

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country, paid for the printing postage to raise

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the money. But it brought a lot of money in.

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But you see, he spent more than that every year.

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So the organization was because it had so much

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revenue, it was able to borrow money. But not

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really pay the debt off. So the debt was building,

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building, building. And finally, about the time

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that I went to work over there, 1988, the debts

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were up around $110 million. And there was just

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no conceivable way out. So my job for years was

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to work with creditors who wanted to foreclose,

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who wanted to get their money no matter what.

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There were probably 100 of them. it was my job

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to keep them all at bay and to find the money

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on the weekends from donors or from lenders to

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make payroll that was coming up monday and we

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had like thousands of employees and so it was

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i went from sort of stressful growing up being

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a famous preacher's kid to being under incredible

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stress and nobody really knew how tight things

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were financially for the organization except

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my father and me because he wanted to keep a

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positive face on everything and so i was the

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one sitting in the back office sweating and trying

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to find a way to keep his place on the rails

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and trying to convince him to stop spending trying

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to raise money because it ended up losing money

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when he tried and so finally he started to listen

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towards the end of his life and um what happened

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after he passed is just uh his history in itself

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i mean he passed in 2007 and um i started working

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towards building that university that he talked

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about one of the first things i did was make

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sure that no money went from the university to

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subsidize any of the old -time gospel hour, the

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fundraising organization, the religious side.

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And that in itself is all the school really needed.

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And we started to grow. And we went from pretty

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much zero assets. We had about $20 million in

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debt. It was paid off by my father's life insurance

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when he passed. But we went from pretty much

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zero in the bank to, when I left in 2020, it

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was about $2 .5 billion in cash and investments.

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Wow. Billions? Yes, billions. I spent about,

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I'd say, $1 .5 billion to $2 billion on top of

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that, rebuilding the campus almost from scratch.

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Wow. You've got to come see it sometime. It's

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just an incredible campus. I'd love to see it,

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actually. I really would. I'd like to take you

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up on that. I'd like to know about the online

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program. I'd love to give you the tour. You mentioned

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the online. Is that what you just said? Yeah.

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100 ,000, I think. More than 100 ,000, right?

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It's funny how that started. It was 1976. My

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father on his television program decided to sell

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a Bible course. It took about a year to complete.

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It cost $1 ,000. And it was not accredited or

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anything, but it's how we sort of learned how

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to do distance education. So by the time the

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college started an online education program in

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1985, we were way, it wasn't online then, it

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was just distance learning, but we were way ahead

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of most universities and most organizations.

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And so we, you know, we worked on it, worked

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on it. It really didn't. take off until 2005

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when people started getting high -speed internet

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in their homes and then it made it possible for

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so many people who otherwise couldn't go to college

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to get their education or their master's degree

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or finish college and it was turned out to be

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a huge demand for that we were the first ones

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in so just being first was a big part of making

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the online program so successful and also the

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online program generated revenue for that allowed

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us to build a campus into a major world -class

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university but um we also moved up to to the

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highest level of ncaa competition in football

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we were moved up to it's called football bowl

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subdivision and we um it's hard to get in fps

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it's called fps but we fought hard and we um

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convinced the ncaa years ago to let us in probably

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seven years ago and since then we've won Most

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of the bowl games we played. And we beat schools

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like Baylor and BYU and all the schools that

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my father wanted Liberty to be like someday.

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And so we're there. And it's sort of regretful.

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I'm not sure a lot of people understand what

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that vision for the university really meant.

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I think a lot of people there now, because it's

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never been done before. They think it was meant

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to be just another typical Christian college,

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and I'm just all the time trying to educate them

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on what the real goal was for the place because

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I hate to put in all that work my whole life

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and then see it go another direction. So that's

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where we are. That's where we are now. That's

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sort of the background to get up to what we're

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going to talk about today. Now, is it going in

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another direction? Because I remember learning

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online that there's super strict rules, no alcohol,

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no holding hands. Is all that changing now? My

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father changed a lot of that when he was there.

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In fact, that atmosphere really didn't exist

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anymore by the time I became president. It was

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more open because that's what he wanted. He wanted

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it to be an enjoyable experience for young people.

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But when it first started out, it pretty much

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had to be like... every other Christian college

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to attract students because we didn't have a

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nice campus or a nice athletic, a wonderful athletic

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program or really any other way to get them here.

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And so that's what we did. And so it's just exciting

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to see that the school is there, but there's

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just so many people that never believed it could

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be done, that a Christian university, evangelical

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Christian university could become a world -class

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university. I think they heard my dad say it

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a hundred times, a thousand times, but I don't

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think they really believed it was possible. And

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I'm not sure a lot of them understand what it

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means right now. So that's my role now is to

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try to educate people that are there now and

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people that are outside alumni on what the school

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was meant to be. Because what happened in 2020

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just kind of confused everybody and threw us

00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:29.779
off track. So let's talk about that. Of course,

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you know, we're no newbies to scandals. And I

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was watching one of your interviews and you were

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talking about how, you know, you felt a lot of

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this heat came from you supporting President

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Trump. We definitely had something similar when

00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:47.320
we were very vocal about Trump. They really,

00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:49.360
really tried to squash us. Our situation is a

00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:51.659
little different than yours, but no matter what.

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Everybody has a story to tell and they have their

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side of the story. And you just, you know, what

00:12:57.440 --> 00:12:59.240
we've learned about the media is you can't believe

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anything that they say. I mean, they're so good

00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:06.220
at drumming up drama and manipulating the situation

00:13:06.220 --> 00:13:09.879
and only sharing the side that they want you

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to hear. And they're really good at just, if

00:13:12.580 --> 00:13:15.240
they want to bash somebody, that person's going

00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:18.399
to be bashed. And so Erase is all about... Letting

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the other person talk. We want to hear what you

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have to say. We want to go back to, you know,

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the beginning of it. You know, just, you know,

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share the journey with us. Well, between 2007

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and 2020, like I said, we took the school from,

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I told you what we did financially. And then

00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:42.240
we also, like I said, built a campus. And all

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those things where everybody was just stunned

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because Liberty was so. destitute, so on the

00:13:47.940 --> 00:13:50.919
edge of just going out of business for so many

00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:53.899
years, the fact that Liberty University was suddenly

00:13:53.899 --> 00:13:56.379
prospering just blew a lot of people's minds.

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I mean, faculty members, students, nobody could

00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:02.840
believe what was happening. But there were some

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people who were jealous and who hated Donald

00:14:07.980 --> 00:14:11.460
Trump. And I did take a stand for Donald Trump

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because of the very reason that I explained in

00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:20.700
the Washington Post. was that the country was

00:14:20.700 --> 00:14:24.080
in $20 trillion of debt at that time. To me,

00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:26.679
that sounded like an impossible number. Now it's

00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:29.240
over 30, so I don't know what that means. But

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I thought, well, if Liberty could dig out of

00:14:33.500 --> 00:14:36.340
the hole we were in by just using business principles,

00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:42.019
just simple business principles and run it like

00:14:42.019 --> 00:14:45.379
a business, then... a businessman could do the

00:14:45.379 --> 00:14:48.039
same thing for this country. And so that's why

00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:50.000
I supported Donald Trump. I really didn't know

00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:53.440
if he was a conservative, really, on a lot of

00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:55.539
the issues or not, because all I knew is what

00:14:55.539 --> 00:14:58.799
everybody knew is you see him on TV. But it turned

00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:03.179
out he was the best person by far. And even when

00:15:03.179 --> 00:15:05.519
he won, when the night that John Kasich stepped

00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:09.019
out of the race and Trump went on TV and announced

00:15:09.019 --> 00:15:12.080
that he had gotten the nomination, he thanked

00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:15.389
me for I was the one he singled out to thank

00:15:15.389 --> 00:15:17.809
him for getting the nomination on national TV.

00:15:18.090 --> 00:15:21.149
And so that blew me away. I had no idea that

00:15:21.149 --> 00:15:24.750
my involvement had that much impact. But to have

00:15:24.750 --> 00:15:27.009
somebody who was an evangelical leader, even

00:15:27.009 --> 00:15:30.210
though I wasn't a pastor or a preacher, to say

00:15:30.210 --> 00:15:35.470
things like, look, we're not electing a Sunday

00:15:35.470 --> 00:15:38.110
school teacher. We're electing a president. So

00:15:38.110 --> 00:15:42.970
we need somebody who's a savvy businessman. built

00:15:42.970 --> 00:15:45.990
things, who knows what it's like to make a payroll,

00:15:46.230 --> 00:15:49.570
who will run the country like a business. That's

00:15:49.570 --> 00:15:52.090
really how we saved Liberty University. We say

00:15:52.090 --> 00:15:54.129
that all the time. We say that all the time.

00:15:54.409 --> 00:15:57.289
This country needs to be ran like a business.

00:15:57.590 --> 00:16:00.909
You can't give away all this money and just constantly

00:16:00.909 --> 00:16:03.610
think that somehow you're going to be able to

00:16:03.610 --> 00:16:11.090
survive. It's business 101. Unfortunately, the

00:16:11.090 --> 00:16:13.009
leader of our country needs to be somewhat warrior

00:16:13.009 --> 00:16:15.490
-like and can't be a little wallflower. You know,

00:16:15.570 --> 00:16:17.710
they're not compatible. You have to stand up

00:16:17.710 --> 00:16:19.529
to China. You got to stand up to Russia. And

00:16:19.529 --> 00:16:23.029
you can't be a pansy. So we're not voting for

00:16:23.029 --> 00:16:25.090
a pansy. We're voting for somebody with some

00:16:25.090 --> 00:16:27.710
big cojones. I mean, it's that simple to me.

00:16:27.769 --> 00:16:29.909
I think liberty, you know, that's the reason

00:16:29.909 --> 00:16:32.250
my father wanted me to be the leader of liberty

00:16:32.250 --> 00:16:35.210
because I wasn't a pastor or preacher. And he

00:16:35.210 --> 00:16:37.190
knew it took somebody with a business background

00:16:37.190 --> 00:16:41.059
and a legal mind to... to run what was really

00:16:41.059 --> 00:16:43.480
going to become a big business. It is a big business,

00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:47.940
a huge business. And so, you know, my father's

00:16:47.940 --> 00:16:51.700
family goes back for generations, all the way

00:16:51.700 --> 00:16:55.259
back to 1607 in Virginia, and they moved up from

00:16:55.259 --> 00:16:57.639
the eastern coast to here, and they were all

00:16:57.639 --> 00:17:00.399
business people. Unlike New England and the Northeast,

00:17:00.740 --> 00:17:03.799
they didn't come here to escape religious persecution

00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:07.200
like so many others did. They came here to make

00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:09.519
money. virginia was the first colony and was

00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:12.799
by far the most prosperous for 200 200 plus years

00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:17.160
so um anyhow that's the background my dad came

00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:20.119
from and i when i was sick a few years ago i

00:17:20.119 --> 00:17:22.200
did all my the genealogical research i didn't

00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:24.440
find a single reverend in his background anywhere

00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:27.819
so for him to become a pastor was the biggest

00:17:27.819 --> 00:17:30.640
shock is for a liberty university to become prosperous

00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:35.279
because his family in the 1920s and 30s his father

00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:38.880
had a Many businesses, a lot of gas stations,

00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:42.039
a nightclub that seated 1 ,000 people. This was

00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:45.539
like in the big band area, bands like, well,

00:17:45.579 --> 00:17:48.160
I can't think of his name, Benny, I want to say

00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:50.559
Benny Goodman, but that's not it. Benny Goodman.

00:17:50.660 --> 00:17:53.539
Yeah, I think that is, and Tommy Dorsey, some

00:17:53.539 --> 00:17:56.059
of those folks. They also had a big hotel there

00:17:56.059 --> 00:17:59.160
and had the first motel, second motel that was

00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:01.140
ever built in the United States, right here in

00:18:01.140 --> 00:18:05.230
Lynchburg. And he also had a... passenger bus

00:18:05.230 --> 00:18:07.769
service that ran from Washington, D .C. to Durham,

00:18:07.890 --> 00:18:10.789
North Carolina, and just a really big businessman.

00:18:11.150 --> 00:18:14.930
But he had some tragedies in his life that caused

00:18:14.930 --> 00:18:20.190
him to lose everything. It was right in the Depression.

00:18:20.829 --> 00:18:23.470
His 11 -year -old daughter, my dad's older sister,

00:18:23.650 --> 00:18:27.150
died of appendicitis. They were done having kids.

00:18:27.230 --> 00:18:29.309
They decided to have one more since she had died.

00:18:29.670 --> 00:18:31.950
That's why my father was born two years later.

00:18:34.700 --> 00:18:37.779
But the other tragedy that happened that same

00:18:37.779 --> 00:18:41.839
year, 1931, is his younger brother, my grandfather's

00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:44.059
younger brother, was very, very wild. He was

00:18:44.059 --> 00:18:49.019
known for hard drinking and even back in those

00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:52.259
days, drugs and everything. So he had a big hot

00:18:52.259 --> 00:18:54.700
rod car he was driving, and he got drunk and

00:18:54.700 --> 00:18:57.259
mad one night and came in my grandfather's office

00:18:57.259 --> 00:18:59.920
with a gun to shoot him. My grandfather jumped

00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:01.880
out the back window, just barely missed being

00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:04.619
shot. He ended up killing his brother, and that

00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:07.119
just destroyed him. He started drinking after

00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:10.839
that. It bothered him so much. It was self -defense,

00:19:11.019 --> 00:19:14.539
but he just never got over it, and he died by

00:19:14.539 --> 00:19:18.759
age 55 from cirrhosis of the liver. It's biblical

00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:21.960
in itself, this story. Yeah, it's incredible.

00:19:22.259 --> 00:19:26.980
My father would have probably—he was 15 when

00:19:26.980 --> 00:19:28.559
my grandfather died, so he probably would have

00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:30.900
gone into the family business, but he had to

00:19:30.900 --> 00:19:33.720
start from scratch. that's why it was so difficult

00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:36.960
to start the church and the university from because

00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:40.519
he really did have to uh to go back and just

00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:42.779
like i said start from scratch and build it up

00:19:42.779 --> 00:19:46.559
from nothing and and uh it made for some very

00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:49.299
difficult but also some very rewarding years

00:19:49.299 --> 00:19:53.640
for all of us so fast forward a little bit um

00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:59.960
you endorsed trump um and um but prior to that

00:19:59.960 --> 00:20:04.960
as early as 2012 Allegedly, apparently, you and

00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:09.660
your wife had a situation with a pool boy at

00:20:09.660 --> 00:20:14.279
the hotel. In 2012, my wife made a mistake a

00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:17.460
long time ago. I'd forgiven her probably a year

00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:20.380
later. I don't know exactly, but that was it.

00:20:20.460 --> 00:20:23.740
That was all there was to the story. Well, it

00:20:23.740 --> 00:20:27.079
turned out the people who had influence over

00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:31.359
Liberty, they didn't like Trump. worked with

00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:35.440
other i said i call them the mitt romney george

00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:38.000
bush liz cheney wing of the republican party

00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:43.000
they actually paid this quote pool boy um well

00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:46.279
abc news in august of 2020 reported that the

00:20:46.279 --> 00:20:49.960
lincoln project provided him with free pro bono

00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:53.160
legal legal assistance and he went public in

00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:57.079
2020 with a bunch of lies about He completely

00:20:57.079 --> 00:21:00.180
embellished what was a true story. We told that

00:21:00.180 --> 00:21:06.119
part of the story. And he was paid several hundred

00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:09.819
thousand dollars to go to do a documentary and

00:21:09.819 --> 00:21:13.319
to do a book. Well, he had no corroboration for

00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:17.859
the things that he was accusing us of. And because

00:21:17.859 --> 00:21:21.940
it was Hulu, which is ABC News, and because it

00:21:21.940 --> 00:21:25.789
was, I don't even know who the... book publisher

00:21:25.789 --> 00:21:28.309
was, but it was just a book publisher that was

00:21:28.309 --> 00:21:30.390
no friend of Trump's. They didn't require any

00:21:30.390 --> 00:21:33.150
corroboration. They just put it out there. And

00:21:33.150 --> 00:21:37.069
at the same time, just perfect storm. I had a

00:21:37.069 --> 00:21:40.430
genetic blood disorder called spherocytosis.

00:21:40.549 --> 00:21:43.089
I'd had it my whole life, didn't know it. And

00:21:43.089 --> 00:21:46.690
I didn't know this either, but in your 50s or

00:21:46.690 --> 00:21:49.529
60s, it causes you to start getting clots in

00:21:49.529 --> 00:21:51.710
your lungs. And so I've been healthy my whole

00:21:51.710 --> 00:21:54.220
life. So that was kind of. kind of a strange

00:21:54.220 --> 00:21:57.119
thing to happen, but I got the blood clots and

00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:00.119
my blood oxygen dropped below 80. This was in

00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:02.839
2020. And I mean, I don't know if you ever had

00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:05.940
blood oxygen that low, but you can't climb in

00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:07.339
the stairs. You feel like you've been working

00:22:07.339 --> 00:22:09.819
out at the gym, taking a shower. You feel like,

00:22:09.819 --> 00:22:11.619
I mean, it's walking out to your car in the driveway.

00:22:11.980 --> 00:22:14.980
You just feel exhausted. And I was like that.

00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:17.180
And they couldn't figure out what was wrong for

00:22:17.180 --> 00:22:20.099
two years. So when all this news broke, mostly

00:22:20.099 --> 00:22:25.059
lies, I couldn't defend myself. And the university,

00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:28.400
I don't know what, I never got a chance to explain

00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:32.400
it to them, to tell them the truth. And I was

00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:36.059
just not physically capable of defending myself.

00:22:36.339 --> 00:22:39.400
But after about two years and two procedures,

00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:42.960
they finally figured out that I had spirocytosis.

00:22:43.059 --> 00:22:45.759
And they found a blood thinner that actually

00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:47.660
worked. The ones I'd been trying didn't work.

00:22:47.740 --> 00:22:50.960
They were oral blood thinners. So I'm on a...

00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:54.099
they found an injection that does work so i started

00:22:54.099 --> 00:22:57.779
taking that in 2022 got back to normal feeling

00:22:57.779 --> 00:23:00.859
good again um obviously i've been sitting around

00:23:00.859 --> 00:23:03.039
for two years i gained a lot of weight so i had

00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:05.619
to get get back in shape and get back in the

00:23:05.619 --> 00:23:08.799
gym and so i really wasn't ready to fight until

00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:13.660
2023 and i did fight in court um i wasn't able

00:23:13.660 --> 00:23:15.619
to say much publicly i heard one of your guests

00:23:15.619 --> 00:23:18.720
roger stone talk about how he was gagged well

00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:22.880
i was gagged too but not by by a judge, by the

00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:27.380
fact that I was just incapable physically of

00:23:27.380 --> 00:23:30.400
talking. Plus, my lawyers were saying, there

00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:33.839
was a lawsuit too, and the lawyers were saying,

00:23:34.099 --> 00:23:37.539
don't say anything publicly. Don't tell your

00:23:37.539 --> 00:23:40.700
side of the story for litigation reasons. So

00:23:40.700 --> 00:23:44.279
I didn't. And so finally in 2023 and 2024, I

00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:47.400
started telling my side of the story and getting

00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:51.740
the truth out. And it turned out that millions

00:23:51.740 --> 00:23:54.900
were spent, starting in 2020, many millions,

00:23:55.119 --> 00:23:59.759
to investigate me. And the people who were doing

00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:03.480
it, who were behind it, were people that I had

00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:07.900
worked with in the past, but who were angry because

00:24:07.900 --> 00:24:11.519
I had not let them do business deals that I thought

00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:16.319
were not fair to the university. It was a way

00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:19.119
for them to make money. at the university's expense

00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:21.420
and i kept saying no we can't do that we're a

00:24:21.420 --> 00:24:24.180
non -profit it's all about providing education

00:24:24.180 --> 00:24:27.380
to students and that money belongs to them they

00:24:27.380 --> 00:24:30.319
pay tuition and it's not our place to spend it

00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:33.140
on anything else and so they got mad over the

00:24:33.140 --> 00:24:36.440
years i finally got rid of them but afterwards

00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:39.019
they went into the press and spoke anonymously

00:24:39.019 --> 00:24:43.259
well the press is so lacks integrity so badly

00:24:43.259 --> 00:24:46.480
that They didn't care if nothing they were saying

00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:48.299
was corroborated. They didn't care if they weren't

00:24:48.299 --> 00:24:51.099
given their names. They still printed it. And

00:24:51.099 --> 00:24:56.119
so all of that had been going on for those four

00:24:56.119 --> 00:24:59.700
years. And so it's almost the same time that

00:24:59.700 --> 00:25:02.359
you guys got, I think it was your problems. I

00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:05.220
think they came after you in 2020 or around that

00:25:05.220 --> 00:25:10.740
time. 2020, 2021, 2022, 2024. Well, that's the

00:25:10.740 --> 00:25:12.680
same time they went after Donald Trump, too.

00:25:13.789 --> 00:25:17.069
i kind of um take a little bit of uh umbrage

00:25:17.069 --> 00:25:19.490
in that that you know we're going after other

00:25:19.490 --> 00:25:22.450
people who are on our side during those same

00:25:22.450 --> 00:25:24.970
years the department of education during that

00:25:24.970 --> 00:25:29.109
time came under biden came in and did a review

00:25:29.109 --> 00:25:31.549
of liberty university and grand canyon university

00:25:31.549 --> 00:25:35.130
and they find those two universities which are

00:25:35.130 --> 00:25:38.029
both christian universities more than they've

00:25:38.029 --> 00:25:41.890
ever find any school before including penn state

00:25:42.349 --> 00:25:45.089
under jerry sandusky with all of his uh you've

00:25:45.089 --> 00:25:48.349
heard of that well they find liberty i think

00:25:48.349 --> 00:25:50.789
it was 14 or 15 million in grand canyon about

00:25:50.789 --> 00:25:53.970
the same amount penn state paid 1 .8 million

00:25:53.970 --> 00:25:56.710
and they couldn't find anything at liberty except

00:25:56.710 --> 00:26:01.109
some police officers many years ago forgot to

00:26:01.109 --> 00:26:03.750
report this crime or that crime there was a few

00:26:03.750 --> 00:26:08.089
nothing serious i mean really serious um i mean

00:26:08.089 --> 00:26:09.809
there were some sexual assaults that of course

00:26:09.809 --> 00:26:13.130
were very serious but there were very few for

00:26:13.130 --> 00:26:15.769
for size a school the size of liberty percentage

00:26:15.769 --> 00:26:19.210
-wise very very few compared to most major universities

00:26:19.210 --> 00:26:22.769
but you wouldn't know that from hearing uh from

00:26:22.769 --> 00:26:24.809
hearing you know the department of education

00:26:24.809 --> 00:26:27.250
the press talk about it and the investigation

00:26:27.250 --> 00:26:30.210
that they spent millions of dollars of on me

00:26:30.210 --> 00:26:34.210
um that didn't find anything but that was never

00:26:34.210 --> 00:26:36.930
announced publicly so how did it feel i mean

00:26:36.930 --> 00:26:39.130
what what was going through your mind because

00:26:39.130 --> 00:26:42.400
you're obviously Prior to the news break, you're

00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.920
a prestigious man of a very large university

00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:51.079
with over 15 ,000 kids, very famous father. What

00:26:51.079 --> 00:26:55.240
was it like seeing yourself on TV? Yeah, as the

00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:57.859
story is breaking. Seeing these accusations,

00:26:58.539 --> 00:27:02.579
you know, and of course, they really go in with

00:27:02.579 --> 00:27:05.119
a dagger. We know that. How did you feel? What

00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:07.559
was going through your mind? You know, to be

00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:12.380
accused. of financial improprieties after I had

00:27:12.380 --> 00:27:16.220
grown up as a preacher's kid. And after I'd gone

00:27:16.220 --> 00:27:18.079
to law school, University of Virginia, one of

00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:19.819
the top 10 law schools, and learned how important

00:27:19.819 --> 00:27:23.000
it is to be professional, to operate with integrity.

00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:27.019
My father was famous even when I was young. So

00:27:27.019 --> 00:27:30.559
I'd seen the press come after him over and over.

00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:34.259
And so I knew anything that I did wrong. I mean,

00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:36.380
I had to be above reproach. I couldn't even have

00:27:36.380 --> 00:27:38.819
the appearance of anything financially improper

00:27:38.819 --> 00:27:41.900
happen, and I never did. But it really bothered

00:27:41.900 --> 00:27:44.660
me to see the people who really wanted to do

00:27:44.660 --> 00:27:48.640
something illegal financially that I didn't allow

00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:54.140
to see them accusing me of the very things that

00:27:54.140 --> 00:27:58.420
they actually did and wanted to do more of. And,

00:27:58.460 --> 00:28:00.579
you know, that's kind of the way it always works,

00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:03.509
I think. I think that happened with Donald Trump.

00:28:03.650 --> 00:28:05.549
I think they accused him of a lot of things that

00:28:05.549 --> 00:28:07.849
they were guilty of, the other side was guilty

00:28:07.849 --> 00:28:13.269
of. And it's just, I think it's just human nature.

00:28:13.589 --> 00:28:17.509
We've been in a situation where we, so as our

00:28:17.509 --> 00:28:21.809
scandal number one was unfolding, we had a publicist

00:28:21.809 --> 00:28:24.150
who worked for the school. And she's like, you

00:28:24.150 --> 00:28:26.410
know, I normally do restaurant openings. I don't

00:28:26.410 --> 00:28:28.950
do global media crises. So you might want to

00:28:28.950 --> 00:28:32.049
get yourself some professional help. She said,

00:28:32.089 --> 00:28:33.490
because they know, they know it's going to go

00:28:33.490 --> 00:28:37.369
big. And it did. And so we know what it's like

00:28:37.369 --> 00:28:39.849
to feel like, all right, something's happening.

00:28:40.029 --> 00:28:42.089
This is something we've never experienced before.

00:28:42.130 --> 00:28:44.029
All this energy is coming in our direction. Do

00:28:44.029 --> 00:28:47.829
you remember that in your situation, the day

00:28:47.829 --> 00:28:49.970
things started to really unfold and what that

00:28:49.970 --> 00:28:52.890
felt like going through that? Well, you know,

00:28:53.009 --> 00:28:57.250
the strange thing is I was so sick and I had

00:28:57.250 --> 00:28:59.809
no energy, but I didn't know that anything was

00:28:59.809 --> 00:29:03.529
wrong. And somebody, I don't know who, concluded

00:29:03.529 --> 00:29:05.809
that the reason I was lethargic like that, the

00:29:05.809 --> 00:29:07.890
reason I was unable to fight was because I was

00:29:07.890 --> 00:29:10.670
drinking too much alcohol. That was not the case.

00:29:10.910 --> 00:29:13.130
But, I mean, like I said, I could hardly walk

00:29:13.130 --> 00:29:16.069
up the steps. And so I guess, I mean, I didn't

00:29:16.069 --> 00:29:18.170
know what I had, so I couldn't tell them. Is

00:29:18.170 --> 00:29:21.349
it 2020? Just put the date. 2020. Early 2020,

00:29:21.569 --> 00:29:23.309
something like that? Right. So when I started

00:29:23.309 --> 00:29:27.190
hearing all this bad press, I really was, I just

00:29:27.190 --> 00:29:30.079
turned it out. I didn't. i knew it was bad i

00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:31.740
know it was terrible all the lies they were telling

00:29:31.740 --> 00:29:35.259
and um and things they were saying and it looked

00:29:35.259 --> 00:29:38.019
awful because they asked they banned us from

00:29:38.019 --> 00:29:41.380
campus and it appeared like liberty even believed

00:29:41.380 --> 00:29:45.400
that we had done something wrong um but over

00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:48.160
the years the smoke cleared and when smoke cleared

00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:51.839
there was nothing there but by then the damage

00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:54.359
is done and that's happened to so many people

00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:57.819
i think the problem the reason you see some so

00:29:57.819 --> 00:30:00.779
much cancel culture is because the other side

00:30:00.779 --> 00:30:04.519
has moved so far to the extreme to the extremes

00:30:04.519 --> 00:30:08.420
of you know bernie sanders and aoc that type

00:30:08.420 --> 00:30:11.140
of thing all the wokeness i think they've moved

00:30:11.140 --> 00:30:17.000
so far in that direction that they just um they

00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:21.940
can't argue their their positions are too unpopular

00:30:21.940 --> 00:30:24.329
to say them out loud So the only way they can

00:30:24.329 --> 00:30:29.109
come after you and attack our side is by canceling

00:30:29.109 --> 00:30:32.210
us, lying about us, making up terrible things,

00:30:32.329 --> 00:30:36.630
trying to indict us. I mean, if I had done anything

00:30:36.630 --> 00:30:40.589
wrong financially, I'd be in jail right now because

00:30:40.589 --> 00:30:43.609
they looked under every rock. They came after

00:30:43.609 --> 00:30:45.769
me. And as far as the world knew, I had done

00:30:45.769 --> 00:30:48.150
something wrong. They came after me in every

00:30:48.150 --> 00:30:52.890
way. I believe that their intention was to try

00:30:52.890 --> 00:30:55.269
to put me in jail. They didn't want anybody to

00:30:55.269 --> 00:30:59.390
ever support, anybody affiliated with Liberty

00:30:59.390 --> 00:31:02.529
University to ever publicly support Donald Trump

00:31:02.529 --> 00:31:06.390
again. And I can't really say who they were because

00:31:06.390 --> 00:31:12.650
I'm under a settlement agreement. But that's

00:31:12.650 --> 00:31:16.950
about as far as I can go. So you and your wife,

00:31:17.049 --> 00:31:21.440
very happily married. To this day, things are

00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:24.140
unfolding. Do you have a moment where you're

00:31:24.140 --> 00:31:27.599
together like, honey, this is getting pretty

00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:29.819
big here. I don't know what's about to happen.

00:31:30.420 --> 00:31:33.039
Yeah. I mean, for years, my wife was worried

00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:35.539
about it becoming public because the kids would

00:31:35.539 --> 00:31:37.400
find out about what happened many years before.

00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:42.940
But it was, I never, when the financial accusations

00:31:42.940 --> 00:31:45.900
came along, I never really was worried about

00:31:45.900 --> 00:31:48.380
going to jail because I knew. that I'd been so

00:31:48.380 --> 00:31:50.259
careful and checked with the lawyers before I

00:31:50.259 --> 00:31:52.240
did everything all those years just because that

00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:55.039
was the way I was trained and brought up. Like

00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:57.000
I said, I'd been in that glass house my whole

00:31:57.000 --> 00:31:59.880
life, so I knew what would happen if they got

00:31:59.880 --> 00:32:05.619
the chance. But my wife and I were just, you

00:32:05.619 --> 00:32:08.220
know, we went from here to here like overnight.

00:32:09.799 --> 00:32:12.640
Tell us about that. That's what I want to dig

00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:14.700
into a little bit more. What did it feel? You

00:32:14.700 --> 00:32:18.680
guys were a power couple up here. and really

00:32:18.680 --> 00:32:21.420
respected everyone looked up to and then all

00:32:21.420 --> 00:32:23.640
of a sudden boom the news hits about you know

00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:25.920
the pool boy the affair and then of course there

00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:29.200
was allegations of you watching like what did

00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:32.640
that feel like to all of a sudden be you know

00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:36.440
just just overnight like what what what what

00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:37.900
did you feel in your heart and how did you guys

00:32:37.900 --> 00:32:44.019
deal with that well i i knew he was lying i knew

00:32:44.019 --> 00:32:46.180
he was desperate for money so i knew what his

00:32:46.180 --> 00:32:51.559
motivations were um but it really uh it was a

00:32:51.559 --> 00:32:54.140
shocker but and this is gonna sound strange because

00:32:54.140 --> 00:32:57.019
it's not what you're expecting me to say but

00:32:57.019 --> 00:33:00.220
um all those years at liberty going through all

00:33:00.220 --> 00:33:02.579
those financial difficulties and finally getting

00:33:02.579 --> 00:33:04.859
the ship turned around getting it prosperous

00:33:04.859 --> 00:33:08.740
it was it was such a stressful time because there

00:33:08.740 --> 00:33:11.200
was no certainty My blood pressure was running

00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:16.400
probably 170s, and 170s over the 118, 174 over

00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:19.000
118 is the number I remember. And I was on blood

00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:21.319
pressure medicine. Well, now being away from

00:33:21.319 --> 00:33:24.160
Liberty a few years and having been able to clear

00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:26.180
the air on everything, my blood pressure is 100

00:33:26.180 --> 00:33:29.539
over 60 with no medicine. So, you know, it was

00:33:29.539 --> 00:33:32.900
terrible to have it all happen that way. But

00:33:32.900 --> 00:33:35.200
I've got time now to spend with my grandkids

00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:37.559
and to reconnect with a lot of friends that I've

00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:39.660
had to ignore for decades because I've been so

00:33:39.660 --> 00:33:42.440
busy, and it's just wonderful. I mean, we live

00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:44.420
on a farm. We've got six grandkids that live

00:33:44.420 --> 00:33:47.859
close by, three kids. They're over here all the

00:33:47.859 --> 00:33:50.680
time. I was telling your husband I built a lake

00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:54.019
here in 1991, a 14 -acre lake, and it took three

00:33:54.019 --> 00:33:56.950
years to fill up, and the kids grew up. riding

00:33:56.950 --> 00:34:00.210
jet skis and water skiing on it and um got 500

00:34:00.210 --> 00:34:03.230
acres with trails for four -wheelers and you

00:34:03.230 --> 00:34:05.289
know i never golfed or anything like that i never

00:34:05.289 --> 00:34:08.289
had the patience for it so i guess we could be

00:34:08.289 --> 00:34:10.130
considered rednecks i don't know what you call

00:34:10.130 --> 00:34:13.030
it down in miami but that's the way my kids grew

00:34:13.030 --> 00:34:16.429
up and i'm loving life right now yes i saw in

00:34:16.429 --> 00:34:18.780
an interview you said you felt like you could

00:34:18.780 --> 00:34:21.699
finally breathe when it was all over. So I guess

00:34:21.699 --> 00:34:23.739
maybe there was a silver lining in all of this

00:34:23.739 --> 00:34:27.260
where it almost forced you into retirement, maybe?

00:34:27.659 --> 00:34:29.679
Yes, it really was. And the only thing that worries

00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:33.019
me is that people that run the school in the

00:34:33.019 --> 00:34:35.840
future don't really understand. I'm worried that

00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:37.739
they might not understand what it was really

00:34:37.739 --> 00:34:40.059
intended to be, but that's another subject for

00:34:40.059 --> 00:34:42.400
another day. You brought up something interesting

00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:46.230
that I've experienced as well. completely wired

00:34:46.230 --> 00:34:47.690
differently than me that when you go through

00:34:47.690 --> 00:34:49.909
these experiences you sort of do an inventory

00:34:49.909 --> 00:34:52.989
of your life like oh where have i been bad where

00:34:52.989 --> 00:34:55.909
i where i've been good you know and um because

00:34:55.909 --> 00:34:58.289
because i don't want them to find out the other

00:34:58.289 --> 00:35:00.769
bad stuff but i but i don't i don't have any

00:35:00.769 --> 00:35:02.690
other bad stuff or do i you know and you get

00:35:02.690 --> 00:35:05.050
a little crazy thinking about it and the for

00:35:05.050 --> 00:35:08.550
your thoughts first went to financial impropriety

00:35:08.550 --> 00:35:10.530
like do i have any financial propriety because

00:35:10.530 --> 00:35:13.769
then it's a sexual titillation thing sure that's

00:35:13.769 --> 00:35:15.829
one thing but financial probably that's a whole

00:35:15.829 --> 00:35:18.070
other thing and i don't want to go to prison

00:35:18.070 --> 00:35:20.949
you know so that's what that's what you that's

00:35:20.949 --> 00:35:23.690
kind of where your mind went yeah and like i

00:35:23.690 --> 00:35:26.329
said i would it would have been torture and i

00:35:26.329 --> 00:35:28.550
would have been up up up all night every night

00:35:28.550 --> 00:35:31.530
if i hadn't have known him known in my head that

00:35:31.530 --> 00:35:33.750
i hadn't done anything wrong i just i just went

00:35:33.750 --> 00:35:36.489
out of my way when my ceo when he left he joked

00:35:36.489 --> 00:35:38.760
that uh when they heard some of these accusations

00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:40.559
he said are you kidding he said jerry wouldn't

00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:42.519
do anything without calling the lawyer first

00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:46.300
and so it was uh it just blew my mind that i

00:35:46.300 --> 00:35:49.920
was being accused of the very things that first

00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:52.760
that i'd avoided and that the people who were

00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:55.840
accusing um were guilty of or the people that

00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:58.380
were accusing just had an ulterior motive and

00:35:58.380 --> 00:36:03.179
just uh hated the fact that that i was uh supporting

00:36:03.179 --> 00:36:05.539
somebody named donald trump i mean that that

00:36:05.869 --> 00:36:09.449
I never liked the, I mean, I just think Republicans

00:36:09.449 --> 00:36:12.190
and Democrats, professional politicians on both

00:36:12.190 --> 00:36:15.090
sides have failed this country for so many decades.

00:36:15.329 --> 00:36:18.530
And it's just such a breath of fresh air to see

00:36:18.530 --> 00:36:20.530
somebody who's been in the real world like you

00:36:20.530 --> 00:36:23.389
guys. And like I said, have done well in business,

00:36:23.469 --> 00:36:26.389
have made their way running the country. It's

00:36:26.389 --> 00:36:28.789
just, you don't get common sense if you don't

00:36:28.789 --> 00:36:32.469
have that. If you could go back in time, do you,

00:36:32.489 --> 00:36:36.510
would you, do you regret or do you, wish you

00:36:36.510 --> 00:36:38.510
wouldn't have stood up in front of the stage

00:36:38.510 --> 00:36:40.610
and announced your support for Donald Trump?

00:36:40.730 --> 00:36:42.590
If you could go back in time, would you do it

00:36:42.590 --> 00:36:45.809
again or would you do it differently? Well, my

00:36:45.809 --> 00:36:50.969
father really pretty much, his whole organization

00:36:50.969 --> 00:36:54.409
was just surging up until 1980 when he endorsed

00:36:54.409 --> 00:36:56.670
Ronald Reagan. And he started getting all this

00:36:56.670 --> 00:36:59.489
national press and he was given credit for electing

00:36:59.489 --> 00:37:02.530
Ronald Reagan and several Republican senators

00:37:02.530 --> 00:37:05.380
out in the Midwest. And after that, everything

00:37:05.380 --> 00:37:07.900
changed. He was really enjoying what he did before

00:37:07.900 --> 00:37:12.619
that. But after that, a different group of people

00:37:12.619 --> 00:37:15.179
started coming in and being attracted here. The

00:37:15.179 --> 00:37:18.019
same thing happened with me. I mean, the school

00:37:18.019 --> 00:37:20.679
was prospering like never before since I took

00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:26.119
over in 2007. But when I saw the direction the

00:37:26.119 --> 00:37:29.039
country was going, just like my father, he basically

00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:32.909
gave up. a lot of his success to support Ronald

00:37:32.909 --> 00:37:35.989
Reagan and to get involved in politics. And I

00:37:35.989 --> 00:37:39.769
did too. But if I hadn't, if Hillary Clinton

00:37:39.769 --> 00:37:42.969
and Biden would have been, if those type of people

00:37:42.969 --> 00:37:46.670
had been in office from then till now, I don't

00:37:46.670 --> 00:37:48.690
think that a Christian school like Liberty University

00:37:48.690 --> 00:37:50.969
would exist anyway. I think they'd find some

00:37:50.969 --> 00:37:54.010
way to destroy it. And so I had no choice. I

00:37:54.010 --> 00:37:56.570
had to go in for my country's sake. I love my

00:37:56.570 --> 00:37:59.539
country. Like I said, we... Everybody talks about

00:37:59.539 --> 00:38:02.159
everybody in America is an immigrant. Well, my

00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:03.920
family is not immigrants. We were here before

00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:05.780
this was America. We were here when it was part

00:38:05.780 --> 00:38:10.420
of England. And so it's anyway, that's that's.

00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:15.460
So you alluded to it before that this incident,

00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:18.320
this mistake that your wife made was back in

00:38:18.320 --> 00:38:24.000
2012. And and it had passed. Time had passed.

00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:26.599
Did you ever have conversations with your wife?

00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:29.340
That whole thing, I hope this thing is never

00:38:29.340 --> 00:38:31.860
exposed because that wouldn't be particularly

00:38:31.860 --> 00:38:34.760
good for us. For the kids, yeah. Absolutely,

00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:38.199
for the kids. I didn't worry about affecting

00:38:38.199 --> 00:38:41.280
my career any because I hadn't done anything.

00:38:41.820 --> 00:38:46.260
The only things that he was saying about me were

00:38:46.260 --> 00:38:49.360
all lies anyway. Their argument was that he was

00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:54.539
trying to extort money, but he never did. That's

00:38:54.539 --> 00:38:59.320
not the way it went down. It was all like I said

00:38:59.320 --> 00:39:05.260
it was. I hope I answered your question. Nobody's

00:39:05.260 --> 00:39:07.300
perfect. Everybody has stuff in their background.

00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:09.300
Everybody has stuff that they don't want to be

00:39:09.300 --> 00:39:13.739
known. As the president of a school, much less

00:39:13.739 --> 00:39:18.619
Liberty University, which perhaps holds itself

00:39:18.619 --> 00:39:20.940
to a higher moral standard than other schools,

00:39:21.139 --> 00:39:25.079
do you think that... I mean, this is your, and

00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:27.199
your wife did not have an operating role within

00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:30.940
the university at all. Do you think that the

00:39:30.940 --> 00:39:34.239
people who run the school and their unaffiliated

00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:38.019
spouses should be held to a higher standard?

00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:40.460
Well, they never have. They never have anywhere

00:39:40.460 --> 00:39:42.760
else. I think it was just unique here because

00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:46.199
there was just so much, so many lies being told.

00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:51.389
I think even among my supporters, they... I think

00:39:51.389 --> 00:39:53.070
a lot of them just assumed it was true because

00:39:53.070 --> 00:39:57.610
I wasn't fighting back. I couldn't. And, you

00:39:57.610 --> 00:40:00.030
know, my dad had a funny thing. I don't want

00:40:00.030 --> 00:40:01.989
to sound too self -righteous when I said earlier

00:40:01.989 --> 00:40:05.269
that I was accused. I wasn't guilty of any things

00:40:05.269 --> 00:40:07.690
I was accused of. My dad had a funny saying about

00:40:07.690 --> 00:40:10.510
that. He used to say in the pulpit in church,

00:40:10.730 --> 00:40:13.710
he'd tell people, he'd say, when people are saying

00:40:13.710 --> 00:40:15.929
bad things about you, when people are lying about

00:40:15.929 --> 00:40:19.309
you, don't get mad, he said, because just be

00:40:19.309 --> 00:40:22.309
happy. that they don't know the truth. And so

00:40:22.309 --> 00:40:26.469
that's sort of something I always thought in

00:40:26.469 --> 00:40:29.489
my mind because Jesus said, you know, if you've

00:40:29.489 --> 00:40:31.670
lusted after a woman, it's the same as committing

00:40:31.670 --> 00:40:34.590
adultery. And so it's what's in your mind that

00:40:34.590 --> 00:40:38.230
makes us all sinners. It's not whether you did

00:40:38.230 --> 00:40:41.269
this thing or that thing on that day, but that's

00:40:41.269 --> 00:40:44.670
a theological thing. And what role did forgiveness

00:40:44.670 --> 00:40:48.150
play in all of this for yourself, for others?

00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:53.059
How did you go through that process? Well, the

00:40:53.059 --> 00:40:56.980
people here locally, the Liberty University community,

00:40:57.300 --> 00:41:00.340
the local people, were all 100 % supportive.

00:41:00.539 --> 00:41:02.400
Like I said, I've been here my whole life, and

00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:07.500
probably for that reason. And that was a big

00:41:07.500 --> 00:41:10.099
help because the rest of the country was not

00:41:10.099 --> 00:41:14.659
so supportive. And it was just a bunch of junk

00:41:14.659 --> 00:41:18.179
had been put out there, and they didn't. know

00:41:18.179 --> 00:41:21.059
much about us or this place or anything and so

00:41:21.059 --> 00:41:26.019
it's uh you know that's and and it seems like

00:41:26.019 --> 00:41:28.039
you know you you went through this big media

00:41:28.039 --> 00:41:32.059
media storm at the same time while you also had

00:41:32.059 --> 00:41:34.199
to forgive your wife because at the end of the

00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:36.460
day but that had happened years earlier okay

00:41:36.460 --> 00:41:38.579
so that was like a long time when did that one

00:41:38.579 --> 00:41:40.159
happen where did that start i had forgiven her

00:41:40.159 --> 00:41:43.429
back in 2012 i mean it was a long time So that

00:41:43.429 --> 00:41:45.750
was over, and then it was almost like basically

00:41:45.750 --> 00:41:48.690
having to go through the journey again, right?

00:41:48.690 --> 00:41:51.610
Now in front of the public. Yep, absolutely.

00:41:51.829 --> 00:41:53.730
It was so hard on my wife. It was terrible. I

00:41:53.730 --> 00:41:56.769
felt so bad for her. How did she handle it? How

00:41:56.769 --> 00:41:59.210
did she deal with it? Because it was almost like

00:41:59.210 --> 00:42:01.489
being hit twice for the same crime, punished

00:42:01.489 --> 00:42:04.670
twice for the same crime, right? Well, no. There

00:42:04.670 --> 00:42:12.320
was nothing publicized back in 2012. What I'm

00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:14.820
saying is she had to deal with it with you, right?

00:42:14.980 --> 00:42:17.480
Personally, right. But then, okay, and then it's

00:42:17.480 --> 00:42:20.679
over. We move on, right? Right, right. But then

00:42:20.679 --> 00:42:22.460
she had to go through it again in front of the

00:42:22.460 --> 00:42:25.300
world. So, like, how did you guys get through

00:42:25.300 --> 00:42:28.280
that? You're 100 % correct. Oh, it was gut -wrenching.

00:42:28.280 --> 00:42:30.920
It was terrible. We didn't know what was going

00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:34.219
to happen. We didn't know if, you know, first

00:42:34.219 --> 00:42:35.400
of all, we didn't know if I was going to die,

00:42:35.480 --> 00:42:37.300
but we also didn't know if we were going to lose

00:42:37.300 --> 00:42:40.530
everything we had. If I was going to get the

00:42:40.530 --> 00:42:42.429
retirement that was owed to me by the school,

00:42:42.590 --> 00:42:47.510
which I spent my whole life earning, it was very,

00:42:47.570 --> 00:42:50.610
very difficult. I'm just so proud of my kids

00:42:50.610 --> 00:42:56.250
and my wife for handling it so well. I've got

00:42:56.250 --> 00:42:59.429
a wonderful wife, and she's just taken such great

00:42:59.429 --> 00:43:02.969
care of me since day one. To see her have to

00:43:02.969 --> 00:43:07.179
go through all that was terrible. Nobody should

00:43:07.179 --> 00:43:09.480
have that kind of thing, those kind of lies told

00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:15.400
about you in the press. It was tough. And the

00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:19.260
kids, too. I'm not doing very good at describing

00:43:19.260 --> 00:43:22.619
how hard it was, but it was extremely hard. How

00:43:22.619 --> 00:43:26.579
many kids do you have? Three. Three. How old

00:43:26.579 --> 00:43:29.119
were they at the time? Were they adults? Yes.

00:43:30.199 --> 00:43:33.260
Let's see. They were born in 1989, 1993, and

00:43:33.260 --> 00:43:36.449
2000. So, yeah, they were all adults. The youngest

00:43:36.449 --> 00:43:39.210
one was 20. Did you break the news to them, or

00:43:39.210 --> 00:43:41.409
did they hear about it elsewhere? No, we told

00:43:41.409 --> 00:43:44.010
them ahead of time, and they were 100 % supportive

00:43:44.010 --> 00:43:47.929
of her and me, and that was a big relief for

00:43:47.929 --> 00:43:54.469
both of us. I can imagine. And was there ever

00:43:54.469 --> 00:43:57.110
a moment that you felt like your family was,

00:43:57.150 --> 00:44:02.369
you know, wobbly because of? Yeah, vacillating.

00:44:02.369 --> 00:44:05.139
Yeah, just like. You know, because sometimes...

00:44:05.139 --> 00:44:07.480
They're telling us they support us, but... Sometimes

00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:10.679
kids get like, why did you... You brought this

00:44:10.679 --> 00:44:13.760
on us, you know? Yeah, well, they didn't have

00:44:13.760 --> 00:44:17.480
that reaction, surprisingly. And it really cost

00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:19.840
them a lot because they were... One of the sons,

00:44:20.079 --> 00:44:22.119
one of my sons, the oldest one, Trey, he had

00:44:22.119 --> 00:44:24.539
worked his way up into university, worked for

00:44:24.539 --> 00:44:28.340
Randy Smith, my COO at the time. And he was running

00:44:28.340 --> 00:44:30.420
several departments. He was doing a great job.

00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:34.059
I think he was fired for no reason other than

00:44:34.059 --> 00:44:36.559
he was related to me. And it's just sad that

00:44:36.559 --> 00:44:39.480
things like that happen, but they do. My other

00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:42.320
son was, he's totally different. He likes to

00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:44.719
work with his hands. He was running a metal fabrication

00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:48.300
shop for the university for 10 years. And he

00:44:48.300 --> 00:44:52.480
just left because the atmosphere, they didn't

00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:54.900
treat him very well after I left. And so he moved

00:44:54.900 --> 00:44:58.440
on. And my youngest daughter was in college.

00:44:59.530 --> 00:45:03.929
She graduated in 2022, and we were allowed on

00:45:03.929 --> 00:45:06.130
campus just to go to her graduation, but they

00:45:06.130 --> 00:45:09.949
put us in a secluded room way far away from the

00:45:09.949 --> 00:45:12.190
stage, and they had a police guard in the door.

00:45:12.710 --> 00:45:16.289
I mean, it was laughable. It really was. That

00:45:16.289 --> 00:45:18.889
must have been crazy, though. This is the school

00:45:18.889 --> 00:45:23.309
your father founded and you took from almost

00:45:23.309 --> 00:45:26.349
going under to where it's at. Right. You know,

00:45:26.369 --> 00:45:29.639
to not be able to step foot. or have a security

00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:33.440
guarding it i mean that must have been heartbreaking

00:45:33.440 --> 00:45:36.440
yeah yeah i you know like i said there's not

00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:39.199
a whole lot i can say about that but um there

00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:43.780
were some hidden agendas put it that way so you're

00:45:43.780 --> 00:45:47.619
um all this attention negative attention and

00:45:47.619 --> 00:45:52.679
you're feeling like crap also physically um i

00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:54.360
mean part of you maybe wants to crawl up in a

00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:59.280
ball you know how did you How did you find the

00:45:59.280 --> 00:46:04.780
strength to carry on, be the patriarch and be

00:46:04.780 --> 00:46:09.119
that fearless leader? It wasn't easy, but I was

00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:15.179
so sick with the low oxygen that I pretty much

00:46:15.179 --> 00:46:19.840
did curl up. I couldn't move around much, so

00:46:19.840 --> 00:46:22.920
I just ate all the time. I weighed like 200 before

00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:26.239
and I ended up at 270. Now I'm back down below

00:46:26.239 --> 00:46:31.079
my normal weight, but I just can't describe to

00:46:31.079 --> 00:46:32.719
people, unless you've been there, unless you've

00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:35.300
had low oxygen levels for a long period of time,

00:46:35.420 --> 00:46:38.699
you don't understand how bad it is. I mean, doctors

00:46:38.699 --> 00:46:40.820
didn't even know people could survive oxygen

00:46:40.820 --> 00:46:44.699
levels in the 70s, which I was, before COVID

00:46:44.699 --> 00:46:47.920
came along. During COVID, some of them did, and

00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:50.460
that's the first time doctors knew that people

00:46:50.460 --> 00:46:53.880
could even survive that. Now, did you turn to

00:46:53.880 --> 00:46:56.860
God? through all this for well yeah i was how

00:46:56.860 --> 00:46:59.260
did your how did your faith come in to give you

00:46:59.260 --> 00:47:01.659
the support that you needed well that started

00:47:01.659 --> 00:47:06.159
in college because i was i grew up in the um

00:47:06.159 --> 00:47:10.300
my dad had a k -12 so i went to that school and

00:47:10.300 --> 00:47:12.659
i went to sunday school i remember some of the

00:47:12.659 --> 00:47:14.400
first things i was taught in sunday school my

00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:17.059
dad's church were it doesn't matter how often

00:47:17.059 --> 00:47:19.059
you go to church how often you read your bible

00:47:19.059 --> 00:47:21.480
or how often you pray and whether you drink or

00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:24.179
not or whether you do go to the go to a dance

00:47:24.179 --> 00:47:26.340
or not or go to a movie or those are some of

00:47:26.340 --> 00:47:28.019
the things that were against the rules none of

00:47:28.019 --> 00:47:30.480
that matters what matters is either you believe

00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:32.719
or you don't you're either a believer or you're

00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:34.639
not and you either treat others like you want

00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:36.739
to be treated or you don't and that was what

00:47:36.739 --> 00:47:39.900
i always thought but as i grew up i saw a lot

00:47:39.900 --> 00:47:43.260
of people were religious people but they really

00:47:43.260 --> 00:47:45.400
weren't christians they didn't treat people well

00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:48.199
not my father he was always the exception but

00:47:48.199 --> 00:47:50.539
there were a lot of people who just were always

00:47:51.150 --> 00:47:53.070
pointing out all these little nitpicky things

00:47:53.070 --> 00:47:55.309
like I just listed them and saying, oh, you're

00:47:55.309 --> 00:47:57.269
telling kids you're bad because you did this.

00:47:57.269 --> 00:47:59.510
You went to that dance or you you had a beer

00:47:59.510 --> 00:48:01.889
or whatever it was. And so I grew up thinking

00:48:01.889 --> 00:48:03.869
because of those religious people who are always

00:48:03.869 --> 00:48:06.750
they call it legalism. So when when they have

00:48:06.750 --> 00:48:09.269
rules that didn't come from Jesus or the Bible,

00:48:09.369 --> 00:48:12.429
they just are rules that they made up. So they

00:48:12.429 --> 00:48:15.090
can if you break them, they can exercise authority

00:48:15.090 --> 00:48:18.030
over you. That's what Jesus that's what he was

00:48:18.030 --> 00:48:20.650
talking about when he. condemn the Pharisees

00:48:20.650 --> 00:48:24.769
in the Gospels. But anyway, I had grown up around

00:48:24.769 --> 00:48:27.869
all that. But when I was in college, I didn't

00:48:27.869 --> 00:48:31.030
play sports. I didn't have a job. So I figured

00:48:31.030 --> 00:48:33.269
I might as well make good grades. I might as

00:48:33.269 --> 00:48:35.030
well accomplish something while I'm here. So

00:48:35.030 --> 00:48:36.969
I made good grades, and that's why I got in law

00:48:36.969 --> 00:48:39.429
school. But one of the things I did was I studied

00:48:39.429 --> 00:48:42.230
the Gospels of Jesus Christ. And when I read

00:48:42.230 --> 00:48:44.929
through what Jesus said in the red letters, I

00:48:44.929 --> 00:48:47.650
was just shocked. I was like, Jesus is condemning

00:48:47.650 --> 00:48:50.789
these very religious people that have been condemning

00:48:50.789 --> 00:48:53.929
me my whole life. And, you know, my dad didn't

00:48:53.929 --> 00:48:56.329
like these legalistic people either in his school.

00:48:56.369 --> 00:48:58.489
He would complain about them. Sometimes he'd

00:48:58.489 --> 00:49:01.210
fire them. But that's just when you started a

00:49:01.210 --> 00:49:02.730
Christian school, those are the kind of people

00:49:02.730 --> 00:49:04.989
that came to work. And so but they made us feel

00:49:04.989 --> 00:49:07.510
terrible. But when I read Jesus said, woe unto

00:49:07.510 --> 00:49:10.349
you, scribes and Pharisees, for you may clean

00:49:10.349 --> 00:49:12.730
the outside of the platter, but inside you ravenous

00:49:12.730 --> 00:49:15.730
wolves. And he said, don't pray. when you pray

00:49:15.730 --> 00:49:17.690
don't pray in the streets like the hypocrites

00:49:17.690 --> 00:49:20.989
do to be seen of men pray in your closet and

00:49:20.989 --> 00:49:24.210
i'll see you privately and i'll reward you openly

00:49:24.210 --> 00:49:28.369
um jesus was not he never taught that we're supposed

00:49:28.369 --> 00:49:31.510
to wear a religion on our sleeve or to um that

00:49:31.510 --> 00:49:34.389
we're supposed to judge other people who don't

00:49:34.389 --> 00:49:37.070
live by a certain set of rules and so once i

00:49:37.070 --> 00:49:40.769
realized that then i was securing what i believed

00:49:40.769 --> 00:49:43.800
from then on it was just I knew that religion

00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:46.820
is great. It's a great way to help people. But

00:49:46.820 --> 00:49:49.000
it's nothing to do with your actual spiritual

00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:51.099
faith. It's nothing to do with Christianity.

00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:55.800
And so that's very surprising probably coming

00:49:55.800 --> 00:49:58.699
from somebody who was an evangelical leader.

00:49:58.860 --> 00:50:00.860
But I really believe that. I believe it's what

00:50:00.860 --> 00:50:03.239
Jesus said. Of course, he got crucified for saying

00:50:03.239 --> 00:50:05.280
it. So maybe I shouldn't go around saying it

00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:08.900
too much. So during everything, did you double

00:50:08.900 --> 00:50:12.380
down on your faith or you were steadfast? It

00:50:12.380 --> 00:50:17.739
was unwavering. I just took comfort in those

00:50:17.739 --> 00:50:20.019
words of Jesus because I knew the people who

00:50:20.019 --> 00:50:23.699
were torturing me were the very people that he

00:50:23.699 --> 00:50:26.760
condemned the most when he was on earth. The

00:50:26.760 --> 00:50:30.699
same exact religious elite, not the regular common

00:50:30.699 --> 00:50:33.179
people. They're at liberty. They're regular folks,

00:50:33.420 --> 00:50:37.480
the students. supporters the alumni they're all

00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:41.320
wonderful people but um they're just like with

00:50:41.320 --> 00:50:43.480
any other organization there's always um there

00:50:43.480 --> 00:50:46.599
were at liberty and lca uh there were people

00:50:46.599 --> 00:50:50.099
who were just uh didn't they they didn't they

00:50:50.099 --> 00:50:51.699
weren't full of love they were full of judgment

00:50:51.699 --> 00:50:55.280
and that's not that's not christianity no so

00:50:55.280 --> 00:50:58.320
back to the pool boy for a moment so this guy

00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:02.480
has been all over abc nbc uh good morning america

00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:06.230
saying a lot of stuff Sounds like he's got compensated

00:51:06.230 --> 00:51:09.909
in multiple different ways. Allegedly. What's

00:51:09.909 --> 00:51:15.889
that? Allegedly, yes. Is there anything that

00:51:15.889 --> 00:51:17.690
you would like to set the record straight on

00:51:17.690 --> 00:51:20.369
just something that's just outright not true

00:51:20.369 --> 00:51:22.070
at all that he's going around? Well, my wife

00:51:22.070 --> 00:51:25.550
went through that book that he wrote. I don't

00:51:25.550 --> 00:51:28.070
know if he wrote it or not, but she built up

00:51:28.070 --> 00:51:30.369
a whole notebook. She wrote down all the lies

00:51:30.369 --> 00:51:32.519
that were in the book. and so she filled up a

00:51:32.519 --> 00:51:36.159
whole notebook of lies and um so you know the

00:51:36.159 --> 00:51:39.760
truth is just what i told you um there was no

00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:43.539
financial impropriety at all ever ever even even

00:51:43.539 --> 00:51:46.179
when i did real estate development if i had to

00:51:46.179 --> 00:51:49.039
buy a piece of property from a non -profit i

00:51:49.039 --> 00:51:51.860
would make sure that i paid got an appraisal

00:51:51.860 --> 00:51:54.940
and paid full mark fair market value for it so

00:51:54.940 --> 00:51:57.159
nobody could ever say i took advantage of um

00:51:57.159 --> 00:52:01.269
of a non -profit that my father started or whatever

00:52:01.269 --> 00:52:05.289
but um i hope i answered your question what what

00:52:05.289 --> 00:52:07.369
kind of advice would you give someone else that's

00:52:07.369 --> 00:52:11.250
being canceled right now well what gems could

00:52:11.250 --> 00:52:13.550
you give based on your experience based on what

00:52:13.550 --> 00:52:15.309
you went through how you got through it what

00:52:15.309 --> 00:52:17.929
what are the things that helped you the most

00:52:17.929 --> 00:52:19.969
that if somebody else out there is listening

00:52:19.969 --> 00:52:22.269
that's going through this could be helpful to

00:52:22.269 --> 00:52:26.920
them it really doesn't matter what anybody else

00:52:26.920 --> 00:52:29.820
says or thinks about you. You have to be secure

00:52:29.820 --> 00:52:33.539
in your own self and your own faith. You have

00:52:33.539 --> 00:52:38.219
to be a confident person. You can't control what

00:52:38.219 --> 00:52:41.539
other people are going to say. I really don't

00:52:41.539 --> 00:52:44.139
think you should let it bother you. My approach

00:52:44.139 --> 00:52:48.440
the whole time was to fight to prove the truth

00:52:48.440 --> 00:52:51.900
and to get the truth out there. I focused on

00:52:51.900 --> 00:52:54.559
that. on something positive for me it was doing

00:52:54.559 --> 00:52:57.139
something positive instead of just sitting around

00:52:57.139 --> 00:53:00.039
saying poor me you know i don't think and you

00:53:00.039 --> 00:53:02.840
got to remember the things that when somebody's

00:53:02.840 --> 00:53:04.480
trying to cancel you and they're saying terrible

00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:08.119
things about you the general public doesn't really

00:53:08.119 --> 00:53:11.300
care they don't pay much attention to it i mean

00:53:11.300 --> 00:53:14.079
it means a whole lot to you or me when we get

00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:16.199
attacked because it's us they're talking about

00:53:16.199 --> 00:53:18.559
but but you have to remember that the average

00:53:18.559 --> 00:53:22.239
person is worried about making a living and taking

00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:26.059
care of their family and keeping their jobs.

00:53:26.940 --> 00:53:29.820
It's so true what you're saying because we've

00:53:29.820 --> 00:53:31.539
experienced the same thing. First of all, this

00:53:31.539 --> 00:53:34.260
lady, she's built different than the rest of

00:53:34.260 --> 00:53:36.039
us. She doesn't care all that much what people

00:53:36.039 --> 00:53:40.199
say. She is a very experienced person in her

00:53:40.199 --> 00:53:42.000
own case. I did give him that same advice, though,

00:53:42.019 --> 00:53:44.900
by the way. Who cares about what they say? Screw

00:53:44.900 --> 00:53:47.900
them. I know. It's one thing to be told that.

00:53:49.130 --> 00:53:52.969
to be truly not be impacted but i think um you

00:53:52.969 --> 00:53:56.449
know maybe it's our generation who uh we grew

00:53:56.449 --> 00:54:00.050
up to care about what people think about us and

00:54:00.050 --> 00:54:01.769
i have a theory which i haven't shared with you

00:54:01.769 --> 00:54:03.489
that young people in the world of social media

00:54:03.489 --> 00:54:06.469
it kind of goes with the territory of of likes

00:54:06.469 --> 00:54:09.190
and thumbs down and and all that there's there's

00:54:09.190 --> 00:54:12.530
some there's some um percentage of the population

00:54:12.530 --> 00:54:15.250
that's not going to like you or your stuff or

00:54:15.250 --> 00:54:18.530
what you stand for or even hate on you. And I

00:54:18.530 --> 00:54:21.170
think young people maybe have a benefit over

00:54:21.170 --> 00:54:23.570
us is they are not as impacted. They have thicker

00:54:23.570 --> 00:54:27.449
skin because it's become part of the normal course

00:54:27.449 --> 00:54:29.989
of their day. Somebody likes them, doesn't like

00:54:29.989 --> 00:54:31.809
them, says something mean, doesn't say something

00:54:31.809 --> 00:54:33.630
mean. They roll with it a lot easier than maybe

00:54:33.630 --> 00:54:39.039
we do. And we got there the hard way. I think

00:54:39.039 --> 00:54:40.679
I'm there. I don't want this to happen. I don't

00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:42.659
want to be canceled yet again. But I think that

00:54:42.659 --> 00:54:45.000
if it were to happen, I'd have a lot thicker

00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:46.619
skin. I'd be able to navigate my way through

00:54:46.619 --> 00:54:52.019
it a lot easier. My thinking is, especially with

00:54:52.019 --> 00:54:54.550
the media, what is it their business? You know,

00:54:54.590 --> 00:54:57.170
go mind your own business. Like, you know what?

00:54:57.409 --> 00:55:00.170
All of a sudden we're nationwide news because

00:55:00.170 --> 00:55:02.349
we don't want teachers to get the COVID shot.

00:55:02.590 --> 00:55:05.289
Why is that nationwide news? You know, go live

00:55:05.289 --> 00:55:07.269
your life and let us live ours, you know? Yeah,

00:55:07.269 --> 00:55:10.030
but just remember, they're not coming after you

00:55:10.030 --> 00:55:12.030
because of something you did. They're coming

00:55:12.030 --> 00:55:16.269
after you because it serves their agenda. It

00:55:16.269 --> 00:55:19.710
serves a purpose for them to make an example

00:55:19.710 --> 00:55:22.909
out of somebody who's not forcing their students

00:55:22.909 --> 00:55:25.590
to get. covid shot you know i mean that should

00:55:25.590 --> 00:55:29.610
be everybody's own decision to make not not the

00:55:29.610 --> 00:55:31.250
schools i think so i think you did the right

00:55:31.250 --> 00:55:35.050
thing but it's uh a lot i tell my wife all the

00:55:35.050 --> 00:55:37.010
time she reads all this stuff on the internet

00:55:37.010 --> 00:55:40.170
some in the past and it's bad and i said becky

00:55:40.170 --> 00:55:43.389
the only reason they're attacking me is because

00:55:43.389 --> 00:55:45.949
they don't like my politics so don't let it bother

00:55:45.949 --> 00:55:48.210
you that's one way that's one way i that's one

00:55:48.210 --> 00:55:51.329
thing i told myself that that's how i um dealt

00:55:51.329 --> 00:55:54.449
with it all is If I had never endorsed Donald

00:55:54.449 --> 00:55:58.190
Trump, they wouldn't be coming after me. It's

00:55:58.190 --> 00:56:00.909
also a backhanded compliment. They do these things

00:56:00.909 --> 00:56:02.849
because it gets an audience. It gets eyeballs.

00:56:03.230 --> 00:56:05.670
And so in a way, they think that you're worthy

00:56:05.670 --> 00:56:08.909
of, you know, you can help them. Very true. Very

00:56:08.909 --> 00:56:13.449
true. Oh, and I've heard my dad. Well, I shouldn't

00:56:13.449 --> 00:56:15.789
keep quoting him, but he was a firm believer

00:56:15.789 --> 00:56:19.349
there was no such thing as bad publicity. That's

00:56:19.349 --> 00:56:22.190
what you used to say then. I didn't pick it up.

00:56:23.070 --> 00:56:26.409
You know, we are seeing a common theme, though.

00:56:26.510 --> 00:56:30.989
There is a common theme of successful Trump supporters

00:56:30.989 --> 00:56:35.030
that they truly try to take down. You know, I

00:56:35.030 --> 00:56:38.929
mean, I think had we been mega donors for Biden,

00:56:39.110 --> 00:56:41.130
they would have never come after us. No, they

00:56:41.130 --> 00:56:43.570
would not have. They would not have. And it's

00:56:43.570 --> 00:56:46.210
like, it's this theme because they don't want.

00:56:46.880 --> 00:56:49.480
that group to become bigger and stronger. And

00:56:49.480 --> 00:56:53.639
so their motive is to basically slap you down.

00:56:53.739 --> 00:56:56.420
I mean, look, how many people in the world commit

00:56:56.420 --> 00:56:59.579
fidelity? It happens. People make mistakes. You

00:56:59.579 --> 00:57:00.840
know what I mean? Does that mean you need to

00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:04.059
like hammer them to the cross and make this big

00:57:04.059 --> 00:57:05.920
public spectacle out of it? It's none of their

00:57:05.920 --> 00:57:08.780
business. That's your personal life. Stuff happens.

00:57:08.900 --> 00:57:12.380
There's many relationships that they all have

00:57:12.380 --> 00:57:14.619
personal stuff going on. It's not the world's

00:57:14.619 --> 00:57:17.510
business. Yeah, you're right. For you to deal

00:57:17.510 --> 00:57:20.329
with privately, for you to focus on, you know,

00:57:20.329 --> 00:57:23.250
but because they have an ulterior motive, because,

00:57:23.250 --> 00:57:26.250
you know, they they probably realized you were

00:57:26.250 --> 00:57:28.510
a big part in helping him get elected in 2016.

00:57:28.630 --> 00:57:30.829
And they did not want that to happen in 2020,

00:57:31.110 --> 00:57:33.909
which is why it sounded like a lot of the stuff

00:57:33.909 --> 00:57:39.489
came out in 2020. You know, it all came out.

00:57:39.550 --> 00:57:41.590
It all came out in 2020. It was like a perfect

00:57:41.590 --> 00:57:43.909
storm for us. It's like I got sick at the same

00:57:43.909 --> 00:57:50.619
time. that he went public and some other things

00:57:50.619 --> 00:57:54.260
happened in my wife's family, nothing to do with

00:57:54.260 --> 00:57:56.820
her, but she found out about it at the same time.

00:57:57.239 --> 00:58:00.460
And it was like the whole world just kind of

00:58:00.460 --> 00:58:05.300
came in on us at once. But everything happens

00:58:05.300 --> 00:58:07.280
for a reason. I really believe that. And I think

00:58:07.280 --> 00:58:09.260
that a lot of good is going to come from what

00:58:09.260 --> 00:58:13.590
happened. Go ahead. It's a quick one. What do

00:58:13.590 --> 00:58:15.889
you feel the good is going to come from this?

00:58:15.969 --> 00:58:17.889
Have you already seen, besides the fact that

00:58:17.889 --> 00:58:19.769
now you can spend time with your family and your

00:58:19.769 --> 00:58:22.550
grandkids and you're more available to them and

00:58:22.550 --> 00:58:25.389
accessible, what else do you think can come out

00:58:25.389 --> 00:58:29.110
of this? I'd like to write a book about everything

00:58:29.110 --> 00:58:33.110
I've experienced, and I'd really like to help

00:58:33.110 --> 00:58:36.369
a lot of evangelicals understand the difference

00:58:36.369 --> 00:58:39.730
between what Jesus thought and what is religion.

00:58:40.399 --> 00:58:43.360
Because I think a lot of them just, they get

00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:46.139
into a religion and they do all the things that

00:58:46.139 --> 00:58:47.659
they're told they're supposed to do and they

00:58:47.659 --> 00:58:50.179
think that somehow that makes them a good Christian

00:58:50.179 --> 00:58:53.139
or makes them, I don't know. But that's not what

00:58:53.139 --> 00:58:57.300
Jesus said. And so it's just so, I mean, you

00:58:57.300 --> 00:58:58.840
know, I can say things like that now. I probably

00:58:58.840 --> 00:59:01.920
couldn't before. Because there are certain religious

00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:04.960
people that didn't want to hear that. But it's

00:59:04.960 --> 00:59:07.199
a fact, so I believe it. So these people that

00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:11.699
tried to hurt you and your family, At least for

00:59:11.699 --> 00:59:15.199
me, I was able to find compassion for them. Have

00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:19.579
you gotten to that point from anger or shame

00:59:19.579 --> 00:59:23.599
to compassion? I don't know that I ever got mad,

00:59:23.800 --> 00:59:26.659
except when they mistreated my kids. That was

00:59:26.659 --> 00:59:28.639
the time I got, and my wife. That's when I got

00:59:28.639 --> 00:59:34.639
mad. But most of the time, it was just... okay,

00:59:34.760 --> 00:59:36.239
if they want to play that way, then I'm going

00:59:36.239 --> 00:59:38.119
to have to, I mean, I'm a lawyer, so I think

00:59:38.119 --> 00:59:40.039
that way. I'll have to do this and this, and

00:59:40.039 --> 00:59:43.139
so I played hardball, and it worked out well.

00:59:45.059 --> 00:59:49.500
Where are you now emotionally toward these people

00:59:49.500 --> 00:59:53.380
that were trying to hurt you? Like I said, it's

00:59:53.380 --> 00:59:56.780
a small minority of people, and I can't even

00:59:56.780 --> 01:00:00.139
say who they were. The contract doesn't allow

01:00:00.139 --> 01:00:02.860
me to say that, and I never will. I don't want

01:00:02.860 --> 01:00:04.599
to disparage anybody at Liberty. I really do

01:00:04.599 --> 01:00:08.059
think they have a good president now, and I think

01:00:08.059 --> 01:00:10.960
it's a lot of things that happened in the first

01:00:10.960 --> 01:00:12.739
three years after I left. I think they've been

01:00:12.739 --> 01:00:17.039
corrected, and I'm optimistic about it, and I'll

01:00:17.039 --> 01:00:19.880
offer to help any way I can. Are you allowed?

01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:23.420
I know your settlement was resolved. Are you

01:00:23.420 --> 01:00:27.630
allowed back on campus? Yeah. Yeah, the fans,

01:00:27.630 --> 01:00:30.190
the alumni, and the students gave us an incredible

01:00:30.190 --> 01:00:32.909
welcome back. Last fall, I went to several games

01:00:32.909 --> 01:00:36.050
and just spent time getting pictures with students,

01:00:36.150 --> 01:00:39.389
and just they were loving on us big time. And

01:00:39.389 --> 01:00:41.889
then same thing with basketball and same thing

01:00:41.889 --> 01:00:44.449
with basketball games and same thing with some

01:00:44.449 --> 01:00:47.269
other. They have CEO summits where they bring

01:00:47.269 --> 01:00:49.510
in a lot of CEOs to speak to the students and

01:00:49.510 --> 01:00:53.530
attended one of those. So, yeah, I mean, there's

01:00:53.530 --> 01:00:57.119
no hard feelings with anybody over there. You

01:00:57.119 --> 01:00:58.719
know, it's water over the dam at this point.

01:00:58.900 --> 01:01:01.679
But it is a good, I'm glad you're covering this

01:01:01.679 --> 01:01:05.480
topic in this podcast. And I congratulate you

01:01:05.480 --> 01:01:08.420
for starting it because it wasn't like this when

01:01:08.420 --> 01:01:10.699
I was in law school. And back in the 80s, people

01:01:10.699 --> 01:01:13.639
disagreed. They would each argue their points

01:01:13.639 --> 01:01:18.760
and respectfully. And Alan Dershowitz was a good

01:01:18.760 --> 01:01:21.000
friend. He was on your show recently, I saw.

01:01:21.320 --> 01:01:23.239
And he spoke at Liberty. I had a lot of big.

01:01:23.630 --> 01:01:25.690
really famous well -known people come speak at

01:01:25.690 --> 01:01:28.389
liberty when i was there and um that was part

01:01:28.389 --> 01:01:30.849
of the goal for liberty is to have speakers that

01:01:30.849 --> 01:01:33.630
have done well in every walk of life come and

01:01:33.630 --> 01:01:35.449
share with the students how they accomplished

01:01:35.449 --> 01:01:39.809
what they accomplished and and um so that's uh

01:01:39.809 --> 01:01:44.769
you know that that universe that that sort of

01:01:44.769 --> 01:01:46.510
atmosphere for students where they get to hear

01:01:46.510 --> 01:01:49.530
from the best of the best and steph curry came

01:01:49.530 --> 01:01:51.670
and we had a in front of all these students we

01:01:51.670 --> 01:01:54.760
did a shootout I made a shot, he didn't. But

01:01:54.760 --> 01:01:57.320
that's not because I'm a basketball player. It's

01:01:57.320 --> 01:02:00.579
just blind luck. And things like that. We always

01:02:00.579 --> 01:02:02.980
had race car drivers, NASCAR drivers come in.

01:02:03.239 --> 01:02:07.780
We raced against them on little go -karts. I

01:02:07.780 --> 01:02:09.219
mean, when I was there, we just had a lot of

01:02:09.219 --> 01:02:13.460
fun. Students loved it. And I hope it stays like

01:02:13.460 --> 01:02:15.860
that. Well, I'd definitely love to come visit

01:02:15.860 --> 01:02:18.360
you because maybe it's an opportunity for it

01:02:18.360 --> 01:02:21.400
to become a feeder school. You know, we just

01:02:21.400 --> 01:02:24.760
opened 10th grade. Next year we'll open 11th

01:02:24.760 --> 01:02:27.280
and then 12th. So we have two more years before

01:02:27.280 --> 01:02:30.800
we have kids graduating from high school. But

01:02:30.800 --> 01:02:33.199
we're very aligned in terms of our values. I

01:02:33.199 --> 01:02:39.460
mean, our school is, you know, the silver lining

01:02:39.460 --> 01:02:44.099
to what happened to us is our community became

01:02:44.099 --> 01:02:46.239
stronger. All the people who thought we were

01:02:46.239 --> 01:02:51.119
crazy or, you know. They were pretty adamant

01:02:51.119 --> 01:02:54.300
that people should be forced to mask, forced

01:02:54.300 --> 01:02:57.579
to vaccine. They all left. Way more aligned people

01:02:57.579 --> 01:03:01.000
came in. So we have a good school of people that

01:03:01.000 --> 01:03:04.199
are spiritual or they're Christians or they're

01:03:04.199 --> 01:03:06.659
Jews or they're just the different religions

01:03:06.659 --> 01:03:09.039
that we just all welcome each other because it's

01:03:09.039 --> 01:03:12.480
about love. At the end of the day, it's all about

01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:16.130
love. You know, it's not about judgment. It's

01:03:16.130 --> 01:03:18.289
not about hate. It's not about anger. It's all

01:03:18.289 --> 01:03:22.429
about love. You're totally right. And it's interesting.

01:03:22.590 --> 01:03:25.869
Some of the people who supported us the most

01:03:25.869 --> 01:03:29.130
after all that happened were our Jewish friends

01:03:29.130 --> 01:03:33.349
in New York. You know, our PR guy, lawyers, our

01:03:33.349 --> 01:03:37.590
other doctors that are friends of ours. They

01:03:37.590 --> 01:03:39.110
just came out of the woodwork and just went out

01:03:39.110 --> 01:03:40.750
of their way. They just thought it was wrong

01:03:40.750 --> 01:03:45.000
what was happening. Just came to our defense

01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:47.960
in a big way. Maybe we should have Layla come

01:03:47.960 --> 01:03:51.000
to campus and speak to the audience. Love to

01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:54.420
have you up. We'd love to have you up. I'm allowed

01:03:54.420 --> 01:03:56.599
to go on campus, so I can give you a tour. Yeah,

01:03:56.599 --> 01:03:58.699
I would love that. Let's coordinate that. Alex,

01:03:58.739 --> 01:04:01.659
we have his cell phone number, right? Yes. Okay,

01:04:01.659 --> 01:04:05.840
great. We'll call it a bonus round. We want to

01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:07.940
throw a couple of questions at you and just answer

01:04:07.940 --> 01:04:11.239
them in a sentence or so. um why don't we take

01:04:11.239 --> 01:04:15.679
turns all okay um so what hurt the most in all

01:04:15.679 --> 01:04:19.519
this entire experience uh what hurt the most

01:04:19.519 --> 01:04:23.019
was um wondering what was going to happen if

01:04:23.019 --> 01:04:25.400
it if it became public that would happen years

01:04:25.400 --> 01:04:28.539
before with the kids wondering um how they take

01:04:28.539 --> 01:04:30.599
it you know because our family's really close

01:04:30.599 --> 01:04:33.739
we travel together a lot and and uh that was

01:04:33.739 --> 01:04:35.980
probably the worst part because once it all happened

01:04:35.980 --> 01:04:39.420
it's like okay you know the worst that could

01:04:39.949 --> 01:04:42.210
could happen, has happened, and it's not so bad.

01:04:42.389 --> 01:04:45.010
So, I don't know. I hope I answered your question.

01:04:45.469 --> 01:04:48.110
There's no wrong answer here. And what healed

01:04:48.110 --> 01:04:51.570
the most? What healed the most? What healed the

01:04:51.570 --> 01:04:58.769
most, yeah. Just working hard and pointing out

01:04:58.769 --> 01:05:02.190
the truth. I mean, it was like playing chess.

01:05:02.389 --> 01:05:05.210
It was like putting together this massive puzzle

01:05:05.210 --> 01:05:07.989
because so many lies have been told and so many

01:05:07.989 --> 01:05:12.929
people had, had treated us badly that i had to

01:05:12.929 --> 01:05:17.250
figure out what the motives were and anyway that's

01:05:17.250 --> 01:05:19.989
how that was the way i did something positive

01:05:19.989 --> 01:05:23.570
to deal with it was to to work hard to correct

01:05:23.570 --> 01:05:27.750
it if that makes sense when did you first get

01:05:27.750 --> 01:05:30.429
that taste of inner peace like you know what

01:05:30.429 --> 01:05:32.489
i'm going to be okay it's all going to be okay

01:05:32.489 --> 01:05:39.010
i think when when everything settled last summer

01:05:39.389 --> 01:05:43.570
july yeah the the litigation yeah was wrapped

01:05:43.570 --> 01:05:47.449
up yeah yeah because i i had um neglect not neglected

01:05:47.449 --> 01:05:49.989
but i i had stopped developing real estate when

01:05:49.989 --> 01:05:52.510
i became president of liberty and so i had forgone

01:05:52.510 --> 01:05:54.829
a lot of income that i would have had and so

01:05:54.829 --> 01:05:58.269
i put all my life in that place um in so many

01:05:58.269 --> 01:06:02.730
ways and um i i needed i needed that retirement

01:06:02.730 --> 01:06:04.949
to take care of the family afterwards because

01:06:04.949 --> 01:06:08.309
i neglected so many other things that would have

01:06:08.309 --> 01:06:10.679
helped them And that was the other thing, too,

01:06:10.780 --> 01:06:16.480
that I realized after it happened. When you get

01:06:16.480 --> 01:06:19.900
away from the rat race and from the stress and

01:06:19.900 --> 01:06:23.619
all, it makes you think back of, oh, wow, I was

01:06:23.619 --> 01:06:27.820
so busy. I ignored, you know, this kid or that

01:06:27.820 --> 01:06:30.699
kid. My kid's too much. Or I should have given

01:06:30.699 --> 01:06:32.719
him more attention instead of my wife. I should

01:06:32.719 --> 01:06:34.980
have given her more attention during those years.

01:06:35.039 --> 01:06:37.380
I was so busy. I mean, I was so consumed with

01:06:37.380 --> 01:06:39.449
that. place you i don't know how to tell you

01:06:39.449 --> 01:06:42.730
we had 10 000 employees and and uh like i said

01:06:42.730 --> 01:06:45.750
we were coming up from nowhere to building something

01:06:45.750 --> 01:06:49.130
huge and it's always just you know meetings constantly

01:06:49.130 --> 01:06:52.230
with architects and for students and always some

01:06:52.230 --> 01:06:55.550
event to attend and um but then i finally got

01:06:55.550 --> 01:06:58.570
away and i'm so glad i did because now i'm able

01:06:58.570 --> 01:07:01.269
to give my kids my wife the attention they deserve

01:07:01.269 --> 01:07:04.429
and um and like i said get to know a lot of people

01:07:04.429 --> 01:07:07.119
i mean reacquaint myself with a lot of people

01:07:07.119 --> 01:07:10.340
that were good friends in the past and um you

01:07:10.340 --> 01:07:13.579
know i'm like i said i'm loving life you're living

01:07:13.579 --> 01:07:15.719
you're living now yes you're living life living

01:07:15.719 --> 01:07:18.679
and loving yeah so i i was my question is one

01:07:18.679 --> 01:07:21.039
word to describe where you are now but it sounds

01:07:21.039 --> 01:07:23.079
like you got the word you're living and loving

01:07:23.079 --> 01:07:26.239
life you're right you're right that's great yeah

01:07:26.239 --> 01:07:29.360
jerry fowler jr thank you so much you've been

01:07:29.360 --> 01:07:33.429
a really great guest um i'm always um I'm always

01:07:33.429 --> 01:07:35.489
surprised that there really is another side to

01:07:35.489 --> 01:07:37.610
the story with everybody that you just don't

01:07:37.610 --> 01:07:39.349
get to hear, and it really just gives me confirmation

01:07:39.349 --> 01:07:43.429
that our show is awesome. This podcast is great.

01:07:43.550 --> 01:07:45.409
I think it's really important. Thank you for

01:07:45.409 --> 01:07:48.130
coming on. And just to add to that, it's like,

01:07:48.150 --> 01:07:52.010
you know, this has to be a venue and an avenue

01:07:52.010 --> 01:07:53.989
for people to share their side because otherwise

01:07:53.989 --> 01:07:57.289
the just bombardment of what the media does,

01:07:57.409 --> 01:08:00.130
blitz, blitz, blitz, blitz, blitz, it doesn't

01:08:00.130 --> 01:08:02.909
even give a person an opportunity. to hear the

01:08:02.909 --> 01:08:05.710
other side and then decide you know it's just

01:08:05.710 --> 01:08:08.510
you're hearing one side and that's just that's

01:08:08.510 --> 01:08:11.889
not the way media should be yeah it's just it's

01:08:11.889 --> 01:08:14.150
just so wrong and i hope that this show makes

01:08:14.150 --> 01:08:17.590
a difference and really gets people to uh before

01:08:17.590 --> 01:08:21.409
they judge so fast think that there is another

01:08:21.409 --> 01:08:23.409
side and you know it's painful to go through

01:08:23.409 --> 01:08:26.789
this so before people out there rush and john

01:08:26.789 --> 01:08:30.170
jump to make judgment on what somebody is going

01:08:30.170 --> 01:08:32.909
through in their life. You know, think about

01:08:32.909 --> 01:08:35.909
it because that cancellation, it hurts. Have

01:08:35.909 --> 01:08:37.909
you seen from some of the other episodes we have?

01:08:37.949 --> 01:08:40.630
It causes a lot of financial destruction. It

01:08:40.630 --> 01:08:43.930
causes health issues. You know, it causes a lot

01:08:43.930 --> 01:08:47.909
of damage. And some people, you know, have committed

01:08:47.909 --> 01:08:51.270
suicide. You name it. So, you know, my wish,

01:08:51.329 --> 01:08:54.270
my hope for viewers out there is don't jump on

01:08:54.270 --> 01:08:58.489
the cancellation bandwagon. Don't need to. If

01:08:58.489 --> 01:09:00.430
somebody's got something private going on in

01:09:00.430 --> 01:09:03.449
their business, leave them alone. We all have

01:09:03.449 --> 01:09:06.510
stuff. Let them go through this journey without

01:09:06.510 --> 01:09:09.930
the world coming after them. Leave them alone.

01:09:10.130 --> 01:09:15.130
Don't jump on that bandwagon. I think your message

01:09:15.130 --> 01:09:17.630
is so badly needed right now. And I can just

01:09:17.630 --> 01:09:20.550
sit here, I can think of other people like Michael

01:09:20.550 --> 01:09:22.770
Flynn. You remember him? Yes, we know Michael

01:09:22.770 --> 01:09:25.289
Flynn. He was another one that got badly mistreated.

01:09:25.960 --> 01:09:28.699
Just because he was affiliated with Trump. And

01:09:28.699 --> 01:09:30.579
I know the list is long, but that's just one

01:09:30.579 --> 01:09:34.079
that came to mind. If you want to connect us

01:09:34.079 --> 01:09:35.819
with Michael Flynn, I've met him a few times

01:09:35.819 --> 01:09:38.840
because I've spoken in the arenas with him. He's

01:09:38.840 --> 01:09:40.840
a great guy. If you can connect us with him.

01:09:41.000 --> 01:09:43.899
I know a lot of people that were canceled in

01:09:43.899 --> 01:09:46.539
the Trump world. Steve Bannon's a good friend.

01:09:47.159 --> 01:09:50.060
And the one you just mentioned, I know pretty

01:09:50.060 --> 01:09:53.840
well. There's others. They don't come to my mind

01:09:53.840 --> 01:09:56.239
right. If you want to connect us with anyone

01:09:56.239 --> 01:09:58.039
that you think would be great for this show,

01:09:58.180 --> 01:10:00.319
we would love to have them on. I'll work on it.

01:10:00.340 --> 01:10:02.380
I will for sure. And it was fantastic having

01:10:02.380 --> 01:10:04.520
you on, and I'm going to take you up on visiting

01:10:04.520 --> 01:10:06.739
your school. I can't wait to see it. I can't

01:10:06.739 --> 01:10:09.159
wait to see you guys. Thanks for your vulnerability

01:10:09.159 --> 01:10:12.100
and your transparency and your honesty. Oh, I

01:10:12.100 --> 01:10:13.979
do have one question. I have one question. Does

01:10:13.979 --> 01:10:18.880
Turning Point have an activation at your school?

01:10:19.229 --> 01:10:21.390
turning yeah charlie charlie kirk and i started

01:10:21.390 --> 01:10:24.850
um we called it the fall kirk center fal for

01:10:24.850 --> 01:10:28.109
fallwell and kirk for his name and it was um

01:10:28.109 --> 01:10:30.649
he had a lot of influencers young people who

01:10:30.649 --> 01:10:33.890
have lots of social media followers and um who

01:10:33.890 --> 01:10:37.989
are advocating for conservative causes and i

01:10:37.989 --> 01:10:42.390
guess for yeah for trump too and we were um they

01:10:42.390 --> 01:10:46.670
had a i'm trying to remember i think we we paid

01:10:46.670 --> 01:10:52.319
for Liberty actually covered some of the costs

01:10:52.319 --> 01:10:57.520
of those influencers putting the word out because

01:10:57.520 --> 01:10:59.800
it helped us recruit students too. So we saw

01:10:59.800 --> 01:11:02.779
it as a student recruitment expense because we

01:11:02.779 --> 01:11:05.300
want to recruit the type of students that are

01:11:05.300 --> 01:11:08.340
following his organization. And so he worked

01:11:08.340 --> 01:11:11.619
with us closely for a long time. You know, he's

01:11:11.619 --> 01:11:15.159
doing a great work. So, Mr. Jerry Falwell, Jr.,

01:11:15.159 --> 01:11:17.420
thank you for your time. Thank you for your vulnerability

01:11:17.420 --> 01:11:19.899
and your transparency and your honesty. Thank

01:11:19.899 --> 01:11:21.500
you for sharing your side of the story. Thank

01:11:21.500 --> 01:11:24.699
you for appreciating what we're doing. And we

01:11:24.699 --> 01:11:27.699
wish you all the continued love and happiness

01:11:27.699 --> 01:11:32.439
with you and your family as you get back to the

01:11:32.439 --> 01:11:34.880
things that are really important in life. Thank

01:11:34.880 --> 01:11:37.439
you. I'm honored to be a part of this. I think

01:11:37.439 --> 01:11:39.180
it's wonderful what you're doing. Congratulations.

01:11:39.539 --> 01:11:42.039
And maybe you want to do a podcast based on your

01:11:42.039 --> 01:11:44.460
new mission that you mentioned earlier. I've

01:11:44.460 --> 01:11:45.920
actually been thinking about it, but I've never

01:11:45.920 --> 01:11:48.420
watched a podcast before yesterday. I watched

01:11:48.420 --> 01:11:51.399
a couple of yours. That's the first time I didn't.

01:11:51.439 --> 01:11:54.659
I'm 62, so I'll be 63 next month, so I don't

01:11:54.659 --> 01:11:56.579
know much about it. podcast like my daughter

01:11:56.579 --> 01:11:59.920
does but um this guy right here is 59 so you're

01:11:59.920 --> 01:12:02.720
not much older you look great you look great

01:12:02.720 --> 01:12:05.439
appreciate it okay thank you so much have a good

01:12:05.439 --> 01:12:05.680
day