All right, good morning and welcome to Good News
York sponsored by ads on the go get ads on the
go .com Matt is not with us today He is out purchasing
different ant farms. He's into ant farms now.
It's very strange But he's a strange man and
I love him for it, but I'm not alone. You're
not alone We're here with a very special guest
dare. I say a friend He is a friend of mine a
friend of growth mode content a friend of Good
News York He has a great podcast with us called
operations excellence Mr. Mark O'Donnell. Thank
you. Thank you, Mike. And I should say not only
a podcast called Operations Excellence, that
is the name of your company. That is correct.
And for those, I mean, look, we, you and I, we
go way back now. Obviously, I know what you do.
Matt knows what you do. But for some of those
that are listening or watching that haven't had
the pleasure to meet you yet. Explain a little
bit about yourself and in operations excellence.
So I'm gonna take that in reverse I'll talk about
operations excellence a little bit and what I
do now with operations excellence And then I'll
maybe still want me to give you a little love
that quick background on me So operations excellence
people ask what I do I try to stay away from
the term business consultant because most people
when they hear that like reach for their wallet
to hang on to it to make sure car salesman or
something right it's got some some negative connotation.
What I really do is I work with business owners
business leaders to help them achieve the goals
that they desire okay and how do we do that you
know the tagline I use is turning obstacles into
assets right there's things that are stopping
you. for achieving the results that you desire,
and whether that's individually or for an organization,
right? So how do I do that? Do that through one
-on -one coaching, in some cases? I'm a certified
business coach, and really the whole method that
we use there is really reverts back to what's
known as the Socratic method, which is answering
an answer with another question, and continuing
to question and peeling the onion. and we call
it getting the top spinning, right, to help the
client really get to a different level of understanding
and hopefully to help them kind of turn the issue
they're looking at more 360 so they can come
at it from different angles and come to a better
answer and then help them drive to the results
to overcoming that. We also do leadership development.
team building, I do sales development, strategic
planning, it really boils down to if somebody
is struggling with one of three things, and in
many cases it is one of these three things, which
is people, process, and strategy, right, with
an organization. And, you know, it's funny because
if you would have asked me when I started my
business who my clients would have been, I would
have guessed. Probably mostly manufacturers because
that was you know how I spent most of my adult
life was in manufacturing type companies I do
have some manufacturing clients, but they are
not the majority of my business clients right
now But you think about it Any organization it
still comes down to people processing strategy,
and that's true if it's for profit or not for
profit right I have some not -for -profit clients
now as well really helping them predominantly
with strategy. And it's interesting because they
understand the need for a strategic plan and
a lot of them in some cases haven't been exposed
to really the methodology that helps you not
only establish a really solid strategic plan
but helps you implement that plan and really
drive to the results that you're trying to get
to. That's fantastic. So that's what I do. Yeah,
well and you do it so well You know even in the
way that you speak on your on your podcast, but
also in the way that you speak when we just have
regular conversations You're just so I don't
know what the word I'm looking for but it's just
You're very thought -provoking You think about
the little bit, you know the little details And
you really what strikes me about you the most
is you can tell that this is something that you
just don't do as a career now. It's something
you're passionate about. Where did you find that
passion? Because you retired. You said you were
working in manufacturing. Well, not exactly.
We'll get to that in a minute. Talk about that.
How did you go from retiring and then getting
into the business consulting? So you asked me
a couple things, and I'll answer. how I got there
and what happened, but also about the passion,
and I'll try to address that as well. So I was
general manager for a local company, which is
owned by a company based in the Midwest, a bigger
corporation, and was general manager there for
four and a half, I guess almost five years, and
they decided in the summer, July of 2021, that
they didn't need the general manager position
in Syracuse anymore. So I was downsized. Here's
your package. Thanks for the memories So when
I came home, of course, my wife was like, oh
my god, what are we gonna do? And I showed her
the package and she said oh, well, what are you
gonna do? So I'm gonna go play golf and figure
out what I want to do Yeah, right says, you know,
they gave me a decent package and and frankly
at that point and again, I won't mention the
company it's irrelevant but I never I always
enjoyed what I did as far as the day -to -day,
right, and the people, and we were a manufacturing
company amongst other things. We, you know, we
had a kind of a project -based business, and
it was a lot of fun. I had a chance to travel
the world, went to Vietnam, and spent, you know,
off and on for almost five years going back and
forth to Vietnam and developing relationships
with suppliers there, and that was incredibly...
gratifying and just a real growth experience
for me you know so so a lot of great experiences
but anyways so I'm downsized and what do I want
to do so I had always thought you know my background
I have an undergraduate degree in industrial
engineering from Syracuse University go orange
and went back to school I got promoted in my
early 30s and this is this is something that
I take with me in my business now and I tell
the story of This is what happens at a lot of
businesses, right? I mean, I was identified as
a high performer in my early 30s and was promoted
literally on a Friday, was an engineer, and on
Monday, I'm an engineering manager. Wow. Right?
And now they had talked to me about it. Sure.
Offered the job and all that. But so what training
did I get? Well, they gave me a little training,
if you will, on HR policies, right? And how to
do reviews and, you know, a handshake and good
luck. And the reality is... being a worker and
being a leader, it's two different skill sets.
A hundred percent. Right. And what happened,
what I described, you know, basically is what
happens even today still in a lot of companies.
High performers get identified. They get promoted
into management positions and they may or may
not succeed if they figure it out or if they've
developed management leadership skills of their
own on their own journey. But a lot of companies
just still don't understand. More companies now
are, by the way, but some still don't. It's totally
different. Just because somebody is good at doing
doesn't mean they're going to be good at leading.
100%. Simply put. So anyways, and by the way,
in my 30s, I did go back to school part -time
while I was working and got my MBA from a morning
college. Another great experience. Go Dolphins.
So two of the local colleges. Nice. Yeah. Love
it. Finished my degree, by the way, I took what
was called the study abroad option at the end
of the program and actually went to Poland for
two weeks to finish my degree, where we actually
did some coursework with a professor at the University
of Warsaw and got to tour around the country.
It was fascinating. That was 2003, which was
only, what, maybe 10, 15 years after the fall
of the... of the iron curtain. Yeah. So that
was really fascinating time. So so anyways, I
had thought about years back, even as a as an
engineer and then a young manager, the thought
had crossed my mind multiple times about consulting,
starting my own gig. Right. And I talked to a
few people off and on different points in my
career. Just never pursued it. So anyways, July
of 21, here I am. I don't have a job. I'm in
my. What mid to late 50s? I guess later 50s at
that point. What do I want to do? Well, I wasn't
ready to retire. And my wife is younger than
I, so I'm thinking, well, I probably want to
and need to keep working for a while. And so
I thought about the consulting thing. And then
the engineer in me said, OK, let's do our homework.
So I started picking some people's brains, a
few people that had made the transition from
corporate to doing their own gig as a consultant.
I heard some great things and a couple of the
really key things I took away was, number one,
figure out what you love to do. What really got
your juices flowing during your career. Focus
on that and you'll not only be successful, but
you'll be happy. Absolutely. Right. And that's
one of the other key thing was that I heard was
get connected with a network. And there's a lot
of reasons for that. Right. OK. So. I took some
time, I really took some time and thought about,
what in my career was I happiest? What made me
happy? What did I love to do? You know, when
I felt really energized, what was I doing? So
I boiled it down to two simple things, right?
The engineer in me, and once, you know, when
they train you and teach you to think like an
engineer, you don't unlearn that. Right. Even
though I haven't practiced as an engineer in
probably, I don't know, 25 plus years, I still
think that way. So I love solving problems. I
love figuring stuff out. That's an engineer.
Check that box. The other thing was I've had
multiple opportunities, even as a young leader,
a young manager, right through my years in executive
roles, I've had the opportunity to mentor other
people. And that was incredibly, incredibly fulfilling.
To see the light bulb go on for somebody else
and to see them take the next step or the next
steps in their professional life and not only
their career, but to see their life change. It's
got to be rewarding. It's so cool. I mean, and
you realize, look, like, I didn't do that. But
if I was a conduit and assisted in that in some
small way, wow. Especially if you if you help
them avoid some of the pitfalls you went into.
That alone is like. Listen, I'm I'm I'm the ghost
of Christmas future. Yeah, listen to me and that's
a big thing, right? but I you know in touring
and and and You know now and in coaching and
in helping people develop and some whether it's
a newly minted manager or somebody who's aspiring
to be a manager or even somebody who's new to
an executive role, you know, anywhere on that,
or somebody that's been in an executive role
and desires to have some coaching, because we
can all benefit from it, right? But one of the
big things that I really bring to the table,
and I did when I was mentoring, is really being
a positive voice and a positive reinforcement,
you know, because what holds us back the most
is us, is our own self -doubts. And I talk a
lot in my coaching about, I call it the formula.
And now people, if I show a slide or I write
it out for them, of course, people who are not
technical, their eyes start spinning in different
directions. But once you explain it, and it's
very simple, how do you get improved results,
whether that's personally, professionally, or
organizationally? Well, you have to have positive
behavior change. Well, how do you get positive
behavior change? Well, you typically have to
have some new skills and some new knowledge,
which people would probably say, yeah, that makes
total sense. But the secret sauce, I like to
call it, that goes with that, that people don't
always associate with this, is attitude. Right?
So you take that positive attitude and that growing
positive attitude, couple that with new skills
and knowledge that you're honing. and continually
learning better how to use. Think of somebody
who's trained as a carpenter or in some trade,
right? They got a set of tools and at the beginning,
they kind of know how to use them because they've
gone through the training, but 20 years later,
they really know how to use them because they're
doing it. They're doing it, exactly. So it's
the same thing, but that secret sauce of the
attitude, and that is a huge role that I play
because I'm kind of that voice, you know, kind
of the Jiminy Cricket in a positive way that
says, yeah, you can do this. And then once they
start, you know, little steps, right, and you
help them walk through achieving some small goals,
now it creates what we call that internal engine.
And it's this self -fueling, self -feeding engine
that everybody, this is kind of human nature,
once I'm introduced to goal achievement and I
get a little taste of achieving some goals, now
you want more. I want more because it feels good.
Like I set this goal, I went and did it. I can
do that. Look at that. Wow. And then, you know,
it takes it another step and another step. So
that's that positive attitude. And that is a
huge part that I play because, you know, anybody,
even without my background and my experience,
almost anybody could probably introduce many
of the skills, skill sets and knowledge that
I do, whether it's in an individual program or
in group programs. But that attitude, and then
you mentioned it too, they're getting the 35
plus years of my experience, and you're absolutely
right. Some of the most important lessons I've
learned were not from successes. They were from
complete failures and falling on my face. That's
become cliche with social media, but it is so
damn true. That's just real life. It is completely
real life. But here's the difference is, right?
Some people are unwilling to share that because
they haven't gotten comfortable in their own
skin with the fact that they fail. You know,
one of the things I talk about in leadership
development is, and we use this example of Abraham
Lincoln, and most people don't realize Lincoln
failed at pretty much everything he touched.
His story is amazing. Everything. And yet he
learned from it and moved on every time. He learned
from it and moved on. And the point is, If you
are going to achieve anything in life, and I'm
not just talking, you know, become the CEO and
have a multi -million dollar home and a Ferrari
in the driveway, whatever success, and that's
the other thing. As an individual, you get to
decide what success looks like for you. Not what
society thinks or your brother thinks or your
wife thinks or your boss thinks. It's what does
success look like for you? And that really is
what's my life's purpose. What are my dreams
and aspirations? What are my values? That those
things become the North Star when I define my
goals. Oh, I love that. Right. And so it's just
it is so cool to, you know, I was out. I told
you before we started the podcast this morning,
I just got back Sunday from Southern California.
Yeah. And one of my bigger clients is in Southern
California. I had a chance to talk quite a bit
with him and stuff he's going on. But. And we're
joking about, you know, he's got, I don't know,
four or 450 employees in his company. I've met
and worked with and know personally like over
a hundred of them. And it's just, you know, even
hear him say, you know, and yeah, does it feed
my ego? Yeah, I'm human. But it's very gratifying
in a humbling way to hear from his mouth what
his people say about me. and how they feel I've
helped them. And yeah, is that a great sales
marketing tool? Well, yeah, but on a human level,
that's what gets me up in the morning. That's
amazing. That's why I love what I do, because
you see the light bulb go on. You see somebody's
life change. And you see them, I call it the
aha moment. I had a coaching call yesterday afternoon
with one of the folks from Southern California.
And he's a regional manager. Very very bright
young man very successful, and he's working through
some things and as we're kicking stuff back and
forth he's But you know he by the time in a in
a 40 -minute conversation You know he walked
away with some Good tidbits for him and again.
What did it really do you know was I was I the
answer guy? No, you know I don't purport to be
the answer man, but through that back and forth
he came to two or three nuggets that are gonna
help him address some things he's dealing with
right now from a different perspective. I was
just gonna say, you're giving perspective. That's
what you're doing. And a sounding board in a
lot of ways. You know, it's funny. Yeah, my buddy
out in California that runs that company, he
says, yeah, you're my professional, you're my
business therapist. And I laugh. It's very similar.
And I get it, because there's a value to that.
Because having sat on that side of the desk for
so long, there's a lot of things that you can't
talk about in detail in the building. You just
can't for multiple different reasons, whether
it involves personnel issues or there is just
something that might be timing. you know because
you know if you're in the middle of an acquisition
or a merger those things yeah yeah right for
obvious reasons and there's a lot of things that
go on but anyways to have somebody who you can
talk to about anything who you know and trust
you know it's going to stay with them those details
are going to go to the grave right um there's
a huge value in that because sometimes just getting
stuff off our chest it's like a it's like a release
valve in the pressure cooker you know Yeah, I
remember before I went into therapy, I just remember
thinking the first time going and saying to myself,
you know, I'm going through this. I'm going through
that. I feel like this. How is talking about
it going to do anything? I don't need to talk
about it. I just need to feel better. Yeah. Well,
guess what? After the first session, a few hours
later, I'm like, hey, you know, I feel pretty
good. Yeah, you felt better. There's the proof.
Right, right. Man, you said so much there. I
have so many thoughts going through it. I want
to circle back real quick to when you said you
know, you didn't learn anything from, not that
you don't learn anything from successes, but
you learn more from failures. And again, I know
that's kind of a cliche thing maybe these days,
but if you think about it, because you and I
always, we love golf and we talk about it, you're
talking about, it doesn't just translate to being
the CEO and this and that, it's in everything.
Like think back to how many bad golf shots you've
had and how many, did you learn anything after
you hit a good one? You're like, no, that's great.
Look at that. You learn when you're like, why
did I just duff it? Oh, you know what? I wasn't
addressing the ball correctly. My foot was in
the wrong position. Whatever it is. So it really
does translate. Well, I would say that's very
true, the analogy you use about golf. And one
of the reasons I love golf is it is very much
like life. But we'll get back to that. Sure.
What I wanted to stress is business. Like all
of life is about relationships. Oh, right. It's
about human relationships, right and and so as
I learn these things I'm not just taking them
into the workplace to become a better leader
Hopefully when I go home, I'm a better spouse
or or significant other or parent or sibling
or son or friend Right because I am better able
to connect. I become a better listener. Mm -hmm
I'm more tuned in to, you know, the emotions
and not just what people are feeling that I care
about, but why. And, you know, that word empathy
and I'm sorry, empathy is not a made up word,
right? There's a lot of science behind it. And
the truth is, if you don't have empathy, you're
going to struggle with really making truly deep
human connections. And that's not, Mark, that
is social science and years of social science
behind it. And that's been my personal experience.
When I've struggled with connecting with others,
it's because I'm not either understanding how
they feel and or not understanding why they feel
that way. And that doesn't mean I agree with
them. It's just I don't understand. I tell my
kids all the time that Relationships are one
of the most important things throughout your
life making relationships and that doesn't mean
you need to have a hundred friends it just means
Whenever you're at a party or you're at an event
or you're at work When you make connections with
people I always say you know, take the time to
just have a meaningful, try to make everybody
feel good in some way, or just have a meaningful
conversation with somebody. I would not be sitting
here without the network of friends, acquaintances,
and people I've met along the way, whether that's
in the professional, my professional career,
or my personal life. Somehow, you know, all these
times in my life where I thought, I'm not where
I should be, right? You probably run into that
a lot. I thought I'd be farther ahead than where
I am, and I've wasted all this time. Come to
find out. Wherever I get to in life. I find out
that it's none of that was a waste of time because
That connection that I made four years ago helped
me here. And again, it doesn't even have to be
professionally just personally. It's it's it's
so It's so important One thing I wanted to ask
you was is there a specific type of client tell
a client tell that you have is it a bunch of
different industries that you work in and the
second part of that question is when do you know,
when do they come to you for advice? Is it usually
when you're on the ground floor and they're starting
their business, or is it usually when they run
into problems they come to you? How does that
work? So I'll answer the first question first.
I know, I like throw five questions at once.
I'm sorry. You're testing my brain. It's good
to have some extra coffee. I know. That's cool.
I'm teasing you. No, I don't have one industry
that I'm focused on. And again, if you would
have asked me when I started Operations Excellence,
if that would have been true, I probably would
have said, oh yeah, it'll be manufacturing. Well,
I love manufacturing and I know a lot about it,
but come to find out, again, people process strategy
applies to pretty much any kind of industry.
So, you know, I certainly market and have joint,
you know, manufacturing associations, industry
associations. I'm a member of the Northeast Dairy
Association, which is just farmers. It's also
processors. Sure. Right. And the whole logistics
part of that industry, which I played in a golf
tournament this summer for that group. And I
met a lot of interesting people and I learned
so much that I didn't know, you know, but that's
the inquisitive part of me that I love learning
about different businesses, distribution businesses
like the HVAC distribution business. I knew very
little about HVAC, you know, and certainly, I
mean, distribution, yeah, I've dealt with distribution
as part of manufacturing companies before, so
I know a little bit about that. So to answer
your question, no, I would say it's more about...
The mechanics of how the organization is set
up and run and the size I mean by that I won't
say I'll never do business with a huge corporation
But they're not really my target audience and
the primary reason for that is For somebody like
me, right? I'm a one -man show. I do sure I do
the marketing I'm doing the work with the clients,
which I love And it's great to be your own boss.
It's got its pluses and minuses, right? But I
really learned how to enjoy that. But, you know,
with the corporate, the bigger potential clients
or clients, there's a lot of decision -makers
and it takes a long time to work through that
process, which is something I don't have really
the time nor the inclination to spend my energy
that way. Now, again, if things worked out and
I got connected with and could help a bigger
organization, sure, right? I'm not going to say
no if it's a good fit, right? Absolutely. But
you know, what I find is that the mid -size to
small organization, again, doesn't really matter
the industry. What really matters is, is the
decision maker or are the decision makers involved?
And usually it's only one or two people. that
I'm dealing with, either an owner or a couple
of executives that are kind of running the company.
Do they understand they have a need? And have
I been able to connect with them and help them
see that I can be a valued partner and bring
something to the table to help not provide answers
to them, but facilitate them? overcoming the
obstacles that are there and turning those obstacles
into assets so that they can therefore achieve
the goals that they desire. So is it a good fit,
you know? What was the other part of the last
part of your question? The last part of the question
was just, do you find that your clients are coming
to you in the beginning, you know, when the company
opens? New companies or existing companies? It's
been both. Yeah, I've actually had two recent
startups, you know, basically individuals that
had kind of a side hustle, if you will, and they
wanted to make it their primary gig and they
had already, he had either already established
a company, an entity, or were on the verge of
doing that and had been kind of doing something
on the side for months or years and saw the need
that, you know what, I need some help strategizing.
Right and and so helped those folks in both cases
with strategic planning, right? We took them
through the detailed process Really developing,
you know a detailed strategic plan and then actually
helped them Kind of facilitate the review of
the plan and a regular cadence to make sure they're
implementing it and then also did some one -on
-one coaching with them and they needed help
in different areas One of them for instance recognized
the need that they were really bad at time management
And really needed some help with that. And we
were able to help them. That's amazing. Yeah.
And also, like I talk about, the company in California,
they've been in existence for 33 going on 34
years. So they're not new. Very successful. They've
gone from six branches to 52 branches. Very,
very successful company. you know, the conversation
with them started off, and this was just two
friends having a conversation. You know, my buddy
had definitely understood, totally has understood
for years, the value of promoting from within,
wants to do that and has done that. But from
his own experience, had mixed results because,
drum roll please, he wasn't providing them the
opportunity to develop those skills. And so he
knew he had to do that. And so when I came to
him and said, yeah, this is what I can do for
you. And here's how I do it. And here's how it
works. And I said, oh, by the way, I bet you
because I know him. He's got a finance background.
So a lot like engineers, he did his homework.
And I said, let me tell you what you probably
found. You could go online and you're going to
get this. And here's what it probably cost you.
And he goes, yep, that's about right. I said,
well, here's what I can do. And it will customize
a program. But here's a general range of what
it's going to cost. And here's what that will
likely include. From there. We developed a proposal
and did it then you know has since continued
to work with them for three and a half years
That's amazing with what you do Is it hard to
look? How do you know? It's funny asking this
but it's a legit question How do you know when
you're done right like when how do you know when
hey? I you know from a business standpoint. Hopefully
you're never done sure right I mean like from
you helping a client when do you know like all
right? You know what I've done all I can do here
well So I'll take that from a little different
approach to answer that. The way I work is, you
know, I don't typically have an open -ended engagement,
right? I will give them a proposal. The proposal
will say, here's what we together have identified
as what you're trying to achieve. Here's what
we have identified as the obstacle. Here's the
statement of work. Here's what I'm going to deliver.
Here's the deliverables. Right? Here's the results.
Here's the cost. It's pretty black and white.
I love that. Right? And so that's how I know
when we're done is when you know with that body
of work. But what typically happens is let's
say I take a group of individuals for people
through a leadership development program. What
often happens, not always, but what often happens
is now those people have gone through the program.
Now they say, hey, you know, maybe one, two,
or all four of them, I want some ongoing coaching,
right? So now maybe we set up a couple 30 minute
calls a month and we, it allows them to continue
to have an outside sounding board, but it also,
now they have, Somebody that's going to check
in with them. They have accountability for this
is now we're talking about their own ongoing
development, right? So there's high value and
that's something that happens a lot or They become
engaged with me and other things come up through
conversations and more work I mean, it's it tells
me that I must be doing something right to date.
Anyways, of course knock on wood I have not had
a single client that has been one and done Every
single one of them has come back for more work
That's great whether it was immediately or you
know over a short period of time Which so which
goes back to what you said at the beginning they
got rewarded and now they wanted more they were
seeing the results Well, they see the value.
Yeah, right. You're delivering a value and you
know, I also understand Hey at some point in
time, you know, maybe they go away for some period
of time but you know, the relationship is there
and You're always on call, you know, well, yeah,
you know and it's funny you say that because
one of the things I offer let's say I'm doing
one -on -one coaching, intensive one -on -one,
like I took one client through an executive leadership
development program, one -on -one, which was
awesome. This individual was at a perfect place
in their career and in their life and saw the
value and was like a sponge. It was so much fun
working with that individual. They've gone on
and and now they're a regular client with with
with coaching hmm Couple more questions because
I know you got to get out here, and I could talk
to you all day I love talking to you mark Mark
O'Donnell of course operations excellence here
on Good News York a couple more questions Do
you find you know I feel like in every industry?
across the board no matter where you're located
there are always kind of some common problems
and with what you do you work with so many different
clients so many different companies do you find
you run into a lot of repeat problems throughout
different companies are there common ones what
are some of those some of the things you hear
a lot um you hear a lot um culture right yes
organizational which which comes up a lot in
You know, one of the tools I have is called Dialogue,
and I won't bore you with the acronym and what
it means, but it's basically an organizational
assessment tool. It uses an online survey coupled
with one -on -one interviews that I do to add
context to it, and it produces a report which
is wonderful because it really shows where the
disconnects are. Right. Right. And disconnect
could be, you know, well, the CEO or the president
or owner of the company thinks the culture is
this. and as you work through all parts of the
organization, all the way down to the people
that are making the product or shipping the product
or whatever, doing the work, they see it something
else and those two things are very disconnected.
Well, why is that? So we help identify where
those disconnects are, what we need to do to
overcome them, and then we can help companies
overcome them. That's awesome. Yeah. So that's
one of the things. The other thing... with the
strangeness of the workforce now, and we've talked
about this before, and I've talked about it on
my podcast, but you've got this really generational
change going on in the workforce, meaning baby
boomers, which I'm of the tail end of, are aging
out of the workforce, retiring, et cetera. A
lot of that happened starting during the pandemic,
and it has accelerated since then. So for the
first time, in decades the baby boomers are not
the majority of the workforce. And so all the
generations behind are coming in and that's changed
the dynamics. But what I'm getting at is what
I hear from clients and potential clients is
they're struggling to attract and retain quality
talent. Because those generations behind want
different things. And they're kind of in the
driver's seat in some cases and that's starting
to change back. But for a number of years, coming
out of the pandemic, and now again, it is starting
to change a little bit, but we had a dynamic
where the worker, the labor force, was in the
driver's seat. And that's starting to tilt back
the other way a little bit. But still, the truth
is this, if you want quality talent, you've got
to have reasons, other than just the pay and
benefits, that people are gonna come and... want
to be part of your organization. Absolutely.
And there's a lot to that. So there's that. Session
planning is another thing. You've got generations
that were the founders of companies. They're
my age or a little older and they want to transition
out. And they may have sons or daughters or both
that they want to come on. And so how do we make
that transition? That's amazing. That's fantastic.
One thing I learned, you're talking about leadership,
it's my last question. One thing I had heard
over the years that stuck with me, there was
one thing I heard which was, leadership is not
about doing everything, it's knowing when to
dole out responsibility. It's not I have to be
in control, I have to, I've gotta do it all,
it's no, I'm gonna take care of this aspect,
but I'm gonna delegate, that's the right word,
yeah. What what are some kind of common misconceptions
about leadership that you found along the way?
Well to first talk about delegating that is a
big deal, right? Because if you're coming from
a place where you're a high performer, let's
just say as an engineer You're really good at
this piece of engineering and you understand
how to do this and you're good. You're a good
Analyst you're good at getting results. You're
good at figuring stuff out now. You become the
leader It's really not your job anymore. Mm -hmm,
right your job is to help others do that and
do it well and set them up for success to do
it. So delegating is something we talk a lot
about in leadership development and one of the
keys there is don't delegate task, delegate responsibility.
So let's use an example of, let's say I want
you to take over the quality control of a certain
product. You don't want that. Or service, right?
I don't say, okay, You need to test that widget.
Here's exactly how you test it and measure it.
Here's, you know, that's a task. I tell you,
you're in charge of the quality coming off of
that product production line. Here's what we
used to do or we've done so far. If you find
a better way, great. But here's the defect rate
that's got to be better than X. So I gave you
parameters, but you're in charge. And yeah, you
can keep doing it the way we're doing it, or
you can do it a different way. That's a responsibility.
Big difference. Because if I'm just delegating
tasks, you're not learning anything. So delegation
should be part of the development process for
your team. And oh, by the way, if I'm really
delegating responsibility, now it's really off
my plate. Now it's on you. I've told you that
your responsibility is that. And you're giving
them a sense of, I trust you. Ownership. I trust
you and I know you can do this. I'm not just
handing you the keys to the car for a night.
I'm giving you the title to it. Nice. Right.
What a great answer. So so that's that's a big
thing. And you know, there's lots of misconceptions
about, you know, leadership. Ultimately, you
know, your role as a leader, you're only successful
if your team is successful. So you. Your job
is to serve your team set them up for success
To put them in position, you know to have the
best opportunity to succeed And so, you know,
most people think all leadership is that you
get the great office and more pay Sure, you know
better bonuses and that may all be true right,
but The truth is leadership can be at times right
at somewhat thankless and kind of lonely place
Right, which again is a little bit of a pitch
for what I do. Like I can, you know, help. Right.
Because I understand there's stuff that you.
You know, the buck stops with you. You're going
to make decisions and guess what? The other thing
you got to understand is you're almost never
going to make everybody happy. Oh boy. If you
have 10 people in an organization that you're
responsible for somebody, you're going to make
a decision or decisions. Right. And somebody
is going to second guess you. That comes with
the territory, you know, but hopefully you've
built the kind of relationships where even though
people might disagree with the decision, they
understand, right, that your motivation is making
decisions in the best interest of the organization,
which is the people as a whole, right, that they
trust you and that you're doing that. So so,
yeah, I think people, you know, get in that role
sometimes and they they see the external stuff,
what they don't see. is behind the scenes, and
you're gonna be faced with making difficult decisions.
Yeah. Yeah, don't ever lose your humanness. That
would be the other thing. I can remember one
of the worst feelings I've ever had in a leadership
role. I was with a local company, I was the EP
of operations, and the company was struggling
financially. And we had done some layoffs, but
we actually had to lay off 22 managers just in
the local operations. And these were people that
I knew. I knew their spouses. I knew their kids.
And I could have not been personally involved
in those meetings. I could have let HR handle
it. Just do it. I told the VP of HR I want to
be in every meeting because those people had
earned that. Even if they wanted to go off on
me and, you know, tell me to, you know, blank
off and whatever. And so I sat through 22 meetings
in one day. God bless you man. That's leadership.
I will tell you emotionally I went home pretty
well drained. Sure. But you know in hindsight
I'm glad I did it because it was the right thing
to do. It's leadership that is a prime example
of leadership and to circle back again to what
you said earlier you gave yourself a responsibility.
You said, you know what, it's my responsibility
to face these people face to face. Well, you
got to own up. Yeah. You know, those are difficult
times and it wasn't personal. Right. These were
business decisions, but it involved people. So
it was personal. And you were able to convey
the empathy that you felt. The decision wasn't
made, you know, to hurt anybody. Right. It was
going to affect people's lives in a negative
way. And so they had a right, had earned that
right through their time with the company and
dedication to the company over years to. to have
that face time. You're amazing. Sometimes you
just gotta accept that and bite the bullet. Mark
O'Donnell, Operation Excellence is the name of
the company, but Operation Excellence is the
name of your podcast. Yes it is. That you do
with us here at Growth Mode Content. Got anything
coming up that we should know about on the show,
or if you wanna talk about what's going on? Well
I will say this, I am, as I told you before,
there's some stuff we're working on that I'm
not gonna talk about because I don't want potential.
But it's exciting. competitors beating us to
the punch. But I will say this. I am working
on a joint workshop with one of my clients, who's
actually become a close friend as well. And you've
met Joanne and Brad from Distinctive Voices,
right? My friends from the professional arts
world. Yeah, they were fun. So we're putting
together a joint workshop, which Joanne and I
are going to do together. And I'm coming at it
from the leadership development world that I
know and that I'm involved in. And she's coming
from the performing arts world as far as developing
your voice, right? And how to really utilize
your presence and your voice to command a room.
And there's a lot that goes with that. So we're
bringing this joint workshop out sometime this
fall, hopefully. We had a little setback. They
had some stuff going on that we were supposed
to... Kind of finalize some things a few weeks
back, but hopefully here before the fall is over.
We'll get that rolled out some other Exciting
stuff we're working on and when we're ready to
roll it out I'd love to come back and chat with
you can come here anytime my friend What are
what are what are the plugs give us the website
business name anything you want to plug for the
operations excellence calm and that is operations
excellence without the E and excellence because
somebody else I already had that domain name
operations excellence calm Yeah, great website.
There's a lot of testimonials on there. It explains
what I do, how I do it. Please reach out to me
if you'd like some more information. And certainly
the first consultations and conversations are
always free of charge. So even if you just want
to talk and see if it's a good fit, give me a
call. Thanks. And this guy's a fun guy to talk
to. He's my friend. He's Mark O'Donnell. Mark,
real quick, before we go. Ryder Cup, you and
I are big golf fans. Yeah. What'd you think about
the kind of the riff -raff with the crowd that
seems to be in the media? What's your opinion
on that? I'm embarrassed. I am too. I am embarrassed
as an American golfer, an American golf fan.
I don't know how they let that get so out of
hand. That's not what that event is about. And
I think I'm proud of the fact that you know,
whether it was Tiger Woods and Tom Watson and
others have come out and spoke very strongly
and said, you know, look, that's not what this
is about. Right. It's a it's a competition. And
if you want to go and support your team and,
you know, that's great. Yeah. But, you know,
somebody had a great observation I happen to
see on social media last night. They weren't
like take the match between Scottie and Rory.
Right. Cheer for Scott. I didn't hear a lot of
people cheering for Scott. They're cheering against
Roy. Yeah. And I'm sorry, but that it's it's
an embarrassment. You're an embarrassment. Right.
If you're that angry of a person, you got issues.
You know, I'm sorry. There's something wrong
with I don't think. and this is this you know
gets more into psychology right it's crowd behavior
right like people in a crowd will say and do
things they would not do if it was just that's
right that's right and so to me i'm sorry but
you're a coward you're a coward right if you
have this anger or whatever going on and that's
how you have to act it out you're a coward absolutely
right all right be a man be an adult right don't
it's just it's totally uncalled for and i will
tell you Not only did the the European team win
that And I mean Americans made a nice car I was
actually on the flight from the West Coast and
was able to watch the last hour or so of the
singles matches Yeah, the US made a grunt. It
was fun. I thought it was good It would have
been it got a really interesting. It would have
been the greatest come back in the last couple
hours, but Not only do your European team win
the match, but you know what? And again, I don't
I don't necessarily Default any of the US players
But the European team showed a ton of class ton
now did they there was some things said and yeah
Yeah, you know, I don't blame them. I mean frankly,
I think you know knowing me I would have had
a hard time not reacting more than yeah, right,
right I mean, I know there was a few times, you
know, we're some four letter expletives got thrown
back at the crowd from players, but the whole
thing. Shamus. Bottom line. And I understand.
I've seen it. I'm old enough. I've seen a lot
of Ryder cups and in Europe, the fans are, you
know, boisterous and loud, but they don't do
that. No. And, you know, this was my first taste
of feeling like, like, you know, get off my lawn.
Old man yells at cloud because I'm usually all
for the party atmosphere at those kind of events.
If you remember the waste management open for
a long time, they've rained it back a little
bit, but that was a party. But you never saw
it cross the line. And this this was like even
if the U .S. had come back and won that match,
I don't think I would have felt good because
I feel like we lost just social. It was it was
just embarrassing. It was stained. It was it's
it's it overshadowed. It overshadowed the actual
competition. I think it's a it's a real black
eye. Yeah. To to American golf. And I think,
you know, we've got to we could talk for a whole
nother episode. I know. You know, there is something
wrong with our culture, if that. If anybody doesn't
think that was an embarrassment, I'd love to
have a conversation with you, because I'm sorry,
that's not acceptable behavior. That's what's
going on in the country right now, is there's
a lot of it. And social media plays a role, but
I just think... I just think... It's okay. You
know, it's okay. I'm okay with the party atmosphere.
Of course. That's the best. I bet every major,
it's fun, personally. in person been to every
golf major except Augusta, and that's a bucket
list item, right? Yeah, I apply for tickets every
year. You know, I mean, yeah, there's a lot of
drinking going on at those events. They sell
a lot of beer. Sure. And the corporate hospitality
tents are pouring, you know, top shelf booze.
Yeah. You know, so it's flowing. They need to
get edibles. Just give everybody edibles. They'll
just chill out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, but,
you know, you don't see that kind of, you know,
behavior. It's just. Again, I'm sorry, it's not
right. I didn't like it. I didn't like it. Bottom
line, I was embarrassed as an American. I was
too, man. I was too. And again, I felt like an
old man for a second. But I was like, no, this
isn't being an old man. This is my morals. There's
a line. And we can party without being complete
a -holes. And that's what we were. And it sucks.
Yeah, I would just leave it at, you know what?
Cheer for your team, but. Basically harassing
and the things that they were saying yeah, I
mean those those were not it was getting personal
it was very Personal attacks and and that's not
you know what? Appropriate no just not when you
when you see behavior like that or people freaking
out and in like you know in traffic Yeah, because
of therapy right I've learned that it has nothing
to do with Rory McElroy. It has nothing to do
with your road rage There's something more going
on behind the scenes and you spilled over and
that's why, you know, we, mental health is important.
But anyway, Mark O'Donnell, operations excellence.
You're my friend. You're a friend of the show.
We love you. You're amazing at what you do. Thank
you for coming on Good News Show. By the way,
I love what you do. I love your sports show.
Oh, well, I'm giving it a shot. You're a sports
geek and I appreciate that because so am I. I
love it. Keep up the good work. Well, hey, listen,
Matten. And Danny decided that they wanted me
to give this a shot. I wasn't sure if I could
do it. I gave it one episode. They're your positive
reinforcement. They are my positive reinforcement.
I gave it a shot and I feel like... Well done.
Well done, Danny. The first one went well. We'll
just continue to try to get better. But anyway,
Mark O'Donnell, Operations Excellence. That is
it for Good News York, sponsored by ads on the
go, getadsonthego .com. We will be back tomorrow.
Again, Mark O'Donnell, Operations Excellence.
We'll see you.