Hey, guys, Matt Major from Growth Mode Content.
Welcome to another awesome episode of Good News
York. I am joined by the best. This is like our
best get so far. I feel like this is this guy
is a legit public speaker, media star, startup
entrepreneur. I don't know. I'm not going to
read your whole resume. Arrel Moody is in the
studio. This is this is this is for Matt. Doing
the introduction made me feel very awkward. Thank
you. That's where the applause come in. How are
you, man? I'm good, man. I'm excited. I'm very,
very excited. I love this, man. I've seen your
videos, but to be in the studio with this is
really sweet. I appreciate that. We've worked
hard on it. And we've actually got this time
next week, we will have our second studio finished.
That one's going to be more of a kind of that...
Typical podcast living room set with a couple
armchairs. Yeah deal. So we'll have a couple
different options But yeah, I'm glad we're very
happy to have you One of the other things and
I'm gonna let a rel talk about a little more
but one of the ways that I know this gentleman
is from profound and if you're a Follower of
the show you've seen that many of our incredible
guests have come from that great organization.
This gentleman's one of the co -founders So we
have him to thank really for everything that's
happening here to be completely honest. You're
how I know Danny This is it's just I appreciate
you for that before anything else. I want you
to know how much that means to us I think there's
a beautiful mixture of when you take really really
talented hard -working people and put them in
the room and just kind of let What naturally
occurs occurs and I think profound is a great
example of that in real time. Yeah spectacular
organization, spectacular people. And one of
the things that was great in this organization
is we would have all these events for folks that
don't know, and we'd get together, we'd go places,
we'd have these events. And then in many cases,
they were led by this gentleman who would...
Inspire is is not even the is the word. It's
just a thought provoking conversation, which
is what you do, I would say, for a living. Right.
That's kind of your main gig. You talk about
that a little bit. Yeah. So I've been a professional
speaker for 18 years. So I've been it's always
an interesting profession when you think about
professional speaking, because people say you
just speak for a living. And I'm like. Yeah,
yeah, I guess so, right? So, you know, typically
I get invited to conferences, to associations,
annual events, company, all -staff meetings,
and I'm a kickoff speaker or a closing speaker
or a workshop presenter. And I've been doing
that for close to two decades. And when Profound
came about, Jeff Canals, who's an incredibly
smart guy, Adam Weitzman, incredibly smart guy,
they said, like, there's nothing like what Profound
would be in Central New York. We should do something
about it. And it all made all the sense. You
know, nothing was was wild about it. So I said,
let's do it. You know, so it was it was an honor
to get that started. And honestly, the people
I've met, if all goes well, will be, you know,
they say there's people, you know, for a reason,
a season or lifetime. So I'm hoping there's a
lot of lifetime folks from profound. I love that.
I love he's got the great quotes. This is why
I love this guy. Aurel, you've also got, I mentioned
briefly startup, and your startup also gets into
the world of professional speaking. Can you talk
about Talkadot a little bit? Yeah, so I'm the
co -founder of a company called Talkadot. So
what Talkadot came about is, in the professional
speaking world, How do you know if someone's
good? How do you know who should bring in? Like,
you know, you really don't. So in a very short
way to describe it is we wanted to build like
the trust pilot of speakers. So well, how do
you do that is really complex. So we first built
a tool for speakers to get feedback and leads.
A speaker goes up, they put up a QR code, they
get some feedback and two things happen. Number
one, we automatically create this really great
report for them that shows their quantitative
data, qualitative data. We also pull out anyone
in in the audience that's interested in potentially
hiring them so they can get spin -off business.
And now we have about 10 ,000 speakers that are
using the tool. So we now have the largest database
of speakers, who they've spoken to, how well
they've done, how effective they've been, the
content that they've done, who they've resonated
with. So now we have a really great opportunity
to match speakers with event planners for their
events. So if I'm an event planner, I have an
event, we now can say, well, what exactly are
you looking for? going by gut. We can go by data
and help match them. So it's a tool that speakers
can either use individually or they can use and
will allow them to book more speaking engagements
through our platform as well. I didn't know you
had that that kind of second part. Is that a
new piece? You know that's kind of always been
true north for us and the feedback tool has always
been a crucial step. to that. Gotcha. So it's
always been there. But you can't launch. So there
a marketplace, if you think about Airbnb, Fiverr,
any kind of marketplace, you've got supply and
demand. Yeah. You've got to build one of the
sides up first or else the other side won't.
care. 100%. So that's the challenge of any marketplace.
Anyone who just goes straight to marketplace
typically fails. So our goal was to all right,
well, let's build up the supply side first, which
is the speakers and we have to build the tool
that they would use. Now we have the demand side.
And luckily, you know, speaking for 18 years,
I know a lot of people who are speakers. So we
start there, we spanned out and luckily, event
planners have told us, you know, it takes us
like six months to find a speaker, but with our
tool, they can do it in like six minutes. So
it's a huge time saver and it's database. So
we're super excited about it. It is the hardest
thing I have ever done in my entire running a
tech company is. What's the single hardest piece
of it? You normally as a service provider. I
am an expert and I get to share my expertise
with people. So you kind of know what you're
doing and you share it with people. In a tech
company, you're constantly iterating, meaning
you launch something, you spend six weeks building
it, and then you go, oh, that didn't land exactly
the way we should. So now we have to figure out
how to build more efficiently. We have to figure
out how to launch. And then you create features
that people don't like or they don't want or
they don't need. Or people say, oh, you know
what? Could you create this feature? And it's
completely off of what you're going to do. And
it's like, that's really amazing for your single.
So you have to manage constant iteration. You
have to manage getting the word out when things
change and evolve. And you have to manage when
you have 10 ,000 opinions. they all might want
a different thing. And you've got to figure out
how to make the best decision for everyone. And
it's a lot of input management, iteration, and
that's really hard. Because normally, as a professional
speaker, I might speak, I don't know, 50, 40
times a year. But when you're dealing with 10
,000 people who have ideas and inputs and needs
and wants, you've got to then hire the right
people, create the right system. So it's a huge
undertaking. And by definition, the harder the
thing to do, the more beautiful the reward, or
at least the learning. At least the learning.
That's incredible, man. I've seen the platform.
It's a very nice tool. And I've mentioned this
to you in the past is a lot of thought went into
that. You see all kinds of apps and platforms
and things of this nature, and many of them are
very cumbersome. Yours seems to be very clean,
straight to the point. And the features that
I saw were... actually useful features. You know,
I know you implemented some AI not long ago and
you know, everybody, that's the thing you got
to do. You got to AI up everything in the world.
But it seems that you actually found useful places
to implement that AI, not just to check that
box. Well, that's what's really hard because
there's a couple of ways to approach technology.
You can do what a lot of people do is let's just
build something for like. you know, six months
and then try to get as many people in. And then
what happens is you are like a shooting star.
You're hot for six months. But then when people
actually start using it, it's a little clunky.
We have very, very specifically chosen a longer.
More I don't know what the right word is. It's
a Iteration process that says hey, we're gonna
build fast and we're gonna change but we know
we're not gonna get it Perfect sure and it's
been you know, three years now and you know,
luckily we have an incredible team I have co
-founders who are incredibly intelligent in design
and user experience and technology so we are
taking a longer approach but the goal is when
you win you've created such a moat around what
you're doing because What a lot of people who
go into tech don't realize is when we think about
the Google Maps, the Instagrams, those are the
apps that won. They won. So we believe everything
should flow and be as easy as those apps. But
for every Google Maps and Instagram, there's
a billion other people that came in and flashed
in the pan and destroyed their business potential.
taking the longer approach I think is counterintuitive
but then ideally you build something that when
we say a mode it's eventually someone's gonna
be like oh they're doing a pretty good job let
me come in and that's eventually gonna happen.
But I don't think people will take the same care
that we will. So we feel very confident that
our user approach will ideally build a moat.
And our goal is to keep iterating and getting
better and better and better. It's like we were
talking about technology stuff. It's never done.
It's never baked. So I think as long as we stay
hungry like that, it'll be great for our users.
That's great. That's great. Now, listen, I want
to I've mentioned this to you in the past and
I just got to lobby a little bit on that. Yeah.
Everything that is spectacular about talk about
for speakers would be equally awesome for podcasters.
And I think and obviously you got to nail one
market at a time. Right. I can't blame you for
that at all. But when you're ready, I think that
you could absolutely explode in that niche as
well. For like I said, the exact same. sales
pitch. And honestly, we think that's on the table,
right? And you're 100 % right. You know, any
business, your biggest challenge is saying no.
That's the biggest challenge because you want
to say yes to everything. But we've learned early,
the more we said yes, the more we, you know.
But for a podcaster, you know, it's like, hey,
someone's listening, but I don't know who they
are. I don't know which particular episodes are
resonating. I don't know. So to be able to get
that really quick feedback and to turn it into
visualized data and to be able to make decisions
from it, to me, it makes all the sense in the
world and at some point if the The mood is right.
We hope to do so, but we really want to do the
event industry right now. I completely understand
that. Like I said, I just got I got a lobby for
our folks a little bit because we need something
that's awesome in this industry. Even when it
comes to like ad sales. Now, there's a lot of
things that are happening where it's become there's
no actually certified podcast statistics that
if you want to go out in the world and sell ads,
people can actually trust these numbers. But
any type of feedback that somebody who wants
to go out in the market and get a sponsor or
something like that is just nothing but a benefit
will help their case. So that's again, that's
just why I lobby for that. We need good tools,
man. We hear you. We hear you. You know, podcast
is interesting, too, because I think about how
many people create podcasts and how many people
are kind of like. I think we're doing okay right
and they say like oh here's some download numbers
and I think I guess we got some people in Texas
listening right but to actually I think any podcast
any podcast are listening to this building your
list is probably a hugely important to actually
turn those listeners into email addresses yeah
turn those listeners because then there are people
you can directly communicate with right so when
you say hey I'm gonna be in Austin, Texas doing
a live event, you could get a whole bunch of
people to show up. It's kind of like that Mr.
Beast effect where if he goes, I'm going to be
at the mall in New Jersey and the whole city
shuts down. We're probably all not shutting down
cities, but if we can add more people, it's a
value add and it's a no brainer. That's it, man.
That's it. Aurel, a couple more things and we'll
let you out of this sweat box. Just for a little
programming note for anybody who hasn't figured
it out. Our AC hasn't worked and as you're probably
watching this, currently you know this is like
the hottest day of the year. It is the hottest,
I think it is like the heat wave hottest. Literally.
That's how it always works. You know, what are
you gonna do? You've also been the star of a
lot of other media, right? I've seen you in commercials.
You even did some Disney Plus stuff, right? You
want to just talk a little bit about your career
on that side? As a speaker, that's always been
kind of my primary love. But when you do speaking,
it also can expose you to new people and new
opportunities because either they've seen one
of your videos or they've seen you speak. Quick
funny story is someone saw one of my speaking
videos. I speak on a subject called adult development
theory that helps people build their people power.
It understands how do people make the decisions
that they make based on this 60 year body of
research. So I've been speaking on that and really
I've been speaking on what makes people tick
and I've been always interested in that modality.
So an executive producer saw one of my videos
and was like, hey, have you ever thought about
hosting a show? And I was like, like, what do
you mean? Like, you know, like, like Montell
Williams. Yeah. Like host the show. And I was
like, uh. I wouldn't be opposed to it. So we
actually went down this rabbit hole of pitching
me to host a talk show. And it actually got so
far that I shot a pilot for Fox to host a show.
Now, what happened as the pilot was completely
finished and done and things were looking pretty
up, Disney bought Fox. So a lot of times when
someone buys something, mergers and acquisitions,
projects get... Absolutely. And that project,
it got shelved. But because I was in the world
now, there was tape in the, you know. an opportunity
presented itself to host a show on Disney Plus
called Family Reboot, which was produced by Kelly
Ripa. So it's one of those things where you never
know what's going to happen. And the funny thing,
and I don't know if this is helpful for anyone,
the video that that executive producer saw that
eventually led to the pilot, which eventually
led to the show that was on Disney Plus, maybe
had like 2000 views. Wow. Right. So it's not
like I came in as a viral sensation. It was just
the right content, right person, right time.
So that's why I encourage people want to create.
You don't know who's going to see it. And one
conversation can change anything. And that's
how the show came about. Love that. I absolutely
love that message, you know, that's something
very similar that we've tried to reiterate Our
man Dakota has tried to drill that message into
our head Dakota that boy. That's a content machine
right there. He is man He is and and he knows
how to do it for his niche, you know And he'll
be the one that tells you that same exact message,
you know He doesn't need to go viral for you
know for him There aren't millions of people
that care about community solar, you know, but
the people that do And that's helpful when you
have like, for example, if you're a professional
speaker and you get high fees, well, what's one
speaking engagement worth? Or if you provide
a service and you get one long -term, what's
the LTV lifetime value of a client? So if you
actually look at it through the lens of what's
one worth to me. Could and like Dakota like he's
such an incredible guy because he's a great heart
great dude, but he's so consistent Yeah, that's
why I think he's gonna win is because where other
people go Oh, I put something out and didn't
get that much views This was a lot of time and
effort like I'm gonna stop the person who just
keeps banging the drum Eventually are gonna have
people listening and it's such as it's so accessible
to every human But yet so few people actually
are willing to just keep beating the drum. Yeah
No, you're absolutely right. I mean, this dude
gets it. You know, we keep repeating the stat
that something like 98 % of podcasts don't make
it to episode 20. And the ones that do don't
make it to episode 100 by the same percentage.
And it's that consistent. You're absolutely right.
And so the more and more people say that, I'm
more than happy to echo that message. I appreciate
that very much. What's on deck for you in the
future? We've been talking everything you're
doing, what can we look forward to? You know,
I'm super excited about what we're doing on the
speaking side, you know, so my speaking company
is really interacting with a lot of organizations,
so continue to speak, continue to do that, like
that's like... If you will, if you imagine a
guitar player playing the guitar, they just want
to play the guitar. So that's keep going. But
talking out is really going in a really big way.
We're really excited about being able to take
event planners who are like, I have a really
specific need search. Budget, with as many people
as we have, being able to actually connect them
and for speakers to be able to have speaking
engagements come to them and to be able to keep
getting data so that they get more and more accuracy.
We're really hoping to elevate the entire event
industry. If you think about how many... events
happen per day in this country? And how many
speakers are hired per day? Considering how clunky
and how difficult it is, we really hope to elevate
the entire speaking industry, the entire events
industry, to make it a more up to date, more
valuable, using AI to summarize, to match, to
find people. I think there's just a huge opportunity
in the event space. And for us as individuals,
imagine Going to an event where every event has
the right speaker every event has content you
look forward Yeah, versus like oh, I got a like
judge through it. That's the main selling point
of most those events is the speaker. It's Speakers
it's connection. Yeah, that's why people go to
conferences you go for networking connection
and for content speakers and we think that the
Connection and networking is really solid in
most events, but the speakers they're hit a mess
And if you don't have a good speaker, right,
you know, we've had experiences with you know
We're profound before you know talking I was
really, you know where we would bring a speaker
Maybe they didn't land and then our members are
like you guys are falling off the boat, man This
is not the quality weeks and you're like, oh
don't like those like, you know So like an event
could either make or break an organization. We
know how much content and speakers are a part
of that So we're super excited about that and
we think that it's gonna be Hopefully, what everyone
will say is extremely obvious once it continues
to grow into what we hope it will be. That's
awesome, man. I love it. Hit the plugs, buddy.
Where can people find you? Luckily, I'm the only
Arrel Moody in the whole world. So if you put
Arrel Moody, the Google will auto correct you
and help find me. But LinkedIn is probably where
I spend most of my time now. So Arrel Moody on
LinkedIn. My website is arrelmoody .com and our
website is talkadot .com. If anyone is a professional
speaker, you can go to talkadot .com, get a free
version of our tool. We have a premium model,
so you can get it for free. Start using it, getting
feedback. If you're an event planner and you
are planning a conference or you are part of
a committee and you're part of the planning committee
and you're like, oh my gosh, we got to find a
speaker. We have specific needs. Reach out to
talk about dot com. We ninety nine point nine
percent of the chance can find someone exactly
for what you're looking for. That's awesome.
That's awesome. Well, it's been a pleasure. It's
really awesome to have you here. I love this
for you, man. I just want a quick quick. Please.
I love this for you. Thank you. I love this for
you. I think that you are you are creating a
level of value and a level of consistency that
is extremely important for our area and for our
business community. And keep being that drum.
There's there's few people who have the strength.
And what I realize is it's so much easier for
people to talk about what they could do or talk
crap in the comments than it is to do the work.
And you do the work. I just want to acknowledge
you and see if that means the world, man. I really
I really appreciate that. Any time you want to
come back to Good News York, even just to shoot
the breeze. But if you got something cool to
talk about, you are more than welcome. We would
love to have you. So I'd love to watch out what
you ask for. You might just get. Hey. Anytime
my friend With that we'll be back with more good
news York in a little bit Welcome back to good
news York sponsored by ads on the go get ads
on the go calm Mike Brindisi here The second
segment of this week or this this day's episode
Normally Matt is with me. He's passed out because
we have no AC We are doing this with no air conditioning.
It is 86 degrees in here And I thought, what
better thing to do when it's 86 degrees than
extend the episode and have a second interview.
But I wouldn't want to do it with anyone else
than this gentleman to my left. Now, for people
who know me know, I've said on record, funny
people are funny. I love funny people. But the
funniest people to me are people that are funny
without trying. And that is this man right here.
My favorite people in the world are the people
that you can't describe, where you go, you just
got to meet them. Graham, you gotta meet him.
I can't explain him. And that is this man, Mr.
Graham O'Donnell from Meltech Solutions. Oh,
thank you. That was a little weak. It's only
one of me clapping. But the sentiment is there.
I'm nervous now. You've set a precedent that
I have to be very suave. No, that's what I mean.
If you're just you, you don't have to try. You're
just a very... And I'm being sincere. You know
what I mean? You're a very unique person. You're
very intelligent. Obviously, you work for Mail
Tech Solutions. Mail Tech Solutions also being
one of our our clients here at Growth Mode. You
guys, you and Mike Lisi have a podcast called
Hack Dissection, which we're going to be shooting
after this. And that's kind of how I got to know
you was you obviously coming on the podcast,
which I think. Are you a permanent co -host now?
Did you hack your way in? I. Mike's nodding yes,
I guess I'm in we break news well your podcast
hack dissection is it's mind -blowing to me because
the things you guys talk about you know when
we think when the when the normal people like
like myself think of IT security and and and
hacking yeah we think of like the we got a hack
into the mainframe and you know and I know I'm
gonna Go to DOS slash backs. You know, we don't
know what time. Yeah, I need more time. What's
that movie Spearfish Kingfisher? I don't I don't
know. Well, either way. But when I hear you and
Mike talk about what you guys do and Red Team
and and sure. What is it testing the penetration
testing? And no, it's not sexual. It's fascinating.
So. Talk to me a little bit about what is Maltak
Solutions? Talk about the company and how you
got started. Yeah, so that's funny. Maltak Solutions
is a lot of things. It's a consulting firm. So
Mike started it to kind of do his own thing.
And then he just kind of he keeps tying on. people,
and so we continue to kind of expand the service
offerings as a result. So we do penetration tests.
Mike does a lot of web app and API testing. That
was his big thing, right? Yeah, when you worked
at the, he's in the back, so I asked him to stand
in the back to give me some help here. But. So
he does a lot of web app and API stuff. I do
pretty much all the network testing, the internal
and external network testing. We did an episode
about physical security testing. We've got all
the tools for that. But there's also a development
arm of the company. So. APSEC U. It's an API
security education and certification program.
I thought you just swore at me in Russian. I
didn't know what you just said. I'm glad you
cleared that up. We helped a lot with the development
of that course platform. But that wasn't me.
That was Mike and this other guy, Brody. Right,
Mike? That's his name, Brody. Is that correct,
Mike? You know, we do a lot of stuff like that,
a lot of CTFs. For DEFCON, the Red Team Village,
Mike is the president of Red Team Village. So
cool. Mike, you should be here. No, no. Come
on. You're here, buddy. I'm sweating in front
of the mic. So let's tag out. Let's go back real
quick. For those of you, because I mentioned
it in the beginning too, you said you do a lot
of the penetration testing. Yes. Talk about that
a little bit. This is fascinating. What exactly
does that mean? OK, so pen tests are the... they're
security audits and they essentially you have
some infrastructure. It can be your building.
It can be your cloud stack. It could be an API
that you've built. It could be your internal
network environment. Pretty much anything. It
could be a wireless environment, networks that
you've provisioned to have Wi -Fi around the
office or something. And you have some sweaty
basement dweller like me or Mike. We're all sweaty
basement dwellers today. We got no AC. They come
in. and they pull out all these esoteric tools,
and essentially you are trying to assess the
scope, the scoped environment, you're trying
to assess it for security gaps, and then you
see if those... perceived gaps are exploitable
if you can exploit them then you leverage that
into whatever access you can get from there as
kind of a proof of concept to show the severity
of the vulnerability and then you throw it all
into a word document and kind of That's the deliverable
so in layman's terms penetration testing is a
way for you to just to find the holes in your
security before you guys will help Fill those
holes so to speak. Well, hey, that's No, actually
that's a that's that's technically our job is
to find the problems, okay, but we don't have
necessarily the insight to Remediate those findings
we can advise on what we think you should do
But at the end of the day we hand our findings
over to a blue team. Okay, so right like Mike
We talk about how we are like red teaming So
that's offensive and then the blue team would
be like the guys who actually their full -time
job offense in the defense Yes, their full -time
job is to that's amazing monitor the network
monitor whatever environment You know security
guards, you know that walk around the mall. Those
are technically blue teamers. They're physical
blue teamers, right? They're supposed to stop
fast, you know threat actors from coming in and
you know stealing or Red team is the more fun
the more fun right you get to try to break in
maybe yeah, it's definitely It definitely gets
a lot of hype because it's like a very like glamorous
Sorry, Dan's like fanning himself. I know he
looks like a super model Does this when he does
this thing right here where he goes your hair?
Oh, yeah, just gets me every time the Fabio core.
Yeah, please stop Can you take another button
down actually? Yeah, it really helped me be more
comfortable. There it is. Oh, yes That's good.
That's good the chest of a bison. All right.
Anyway rug It's it's it's definitely more It
gets a lot more attention red teaming gets a
lot more attention because it's like You know,
it's like super hacker like oh have you seen
mr. Robot? Yeah, so we all all the idiots like
us are like I would love to try to break it because
Mike Mike has shared some amazing stories about
I mean the penetration testing isn't always just
through like, you know sitting at a computer
like he told a story about a guy that I'm paraphrasing
Mike, but basically a bank hired them to to break
into the safe, they didn't, and like leave with
actual gold bars in their backpacks. So it can
get insane. What's the most fun you've had doing
a pen test? Oh man. I know you have fun every
time, but. Yeah, I mean, we've already told this
story, but I think my first. Not on here though.
My first like big, like big win was still the
most exciting thing that I've done because like
I've gotten wins on other networks, and I say
win, it's never a competition, but it helps to
get into that mindset when you are doing the
work. You want to be competitive, you want to
be aggressive, you want to win, but then at the
end of the day, you come into the room and you...
Definitely don't want to have the attitude of
like we beat you know because like it you're
on their side Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're on
their side. You're doing but that's what that's
that's the best part though is Even though if
you're successful and you're like, yeah You're
you I would say you're cheering a victory in
that. Hey, we figured out where the hole is and
now we're gonna Yeah, we're gonna fix it for
you. Yeah, but my so I think my first So I should
I should preface this by saying like I didn't
study computer science in college. Mm -hmm. So
Coming into this field and and this is like I
feel like this is a big problem Not necessarily
problem. It's like a big challenge of being in
this field Is that like the breadth of knowledge
that you can acquire is so wide? Yeah, like the
the breadth of subjects in this field are so
wide and each one goes so intensely deep into
like detail that you will never know everything
about everything. And so like you can be working
in this field for literally decades, go to like
a work convention and meet someone and you're
just like blown out of the water. Yeah. Because
you're and you're just like, oh, OK, like because
like I am just forever going to be an idiot.
No, you're not because there's so much there
is just so much to learn no, but you know what
it is I'm so glad you said that because Between
how fast technology evolves and changes sure
mixed with just the nature of this industry I
feel like every day and it's a cliche But I feel
like you're learning every day and every pen
test every yeah job You're you're you're learning
something new. Am I am I right? Yeah, that's
totally correct. Yeah. Yeah, I mean It's exciting.
There's never one same call or same job, I guess.
It is exciting. It is exciting. Some days it's
exhausting. I want to be completely honest, because
it's just like some days if I'm in a bad headspace,
I'm just like, oh, man, I'm just always going
to just like just barely have my head above water.
Yeah, you know. But then other days, it's like,
I mean, you have to you really have to be in
love with learning to to survive in this field
and not burn out. So, yeah, you have to fall
in love with the process. It's every day. Graham
O'Donnell, Mail Tech Solutions, he's got a podcast
with us, Hack Dissection. I'm in love with that.
In fact, we're going to shoot an episode after
this. So, Growth Mode Content, that is one of
our favorite clients. Let's talk about I was
like, are we a time or you know, no, no, no,
no, no, just a little plug in the middle So you're
talking about all the testing and things like
that one thing I did pick up on on the podcast
that I thought was a really great advice So I
think the question was something to the effect
of what would you give advice? You know to people
that are kind of in this field and you were like
if you're an IT person Learn about hacking if
you're hacking learn about IT like because it
all helps each other Did I retain that correctly
or I mean I? I don't know if I said that I'm
dude. I'm leaking right now, but there's listen
look I know we get I wish you could hack the
HVAC system We actually said that when you guys
were coming We're like if we decide to go forward
with the shoot today Maybe they can hack the
HVAC system because we were like Graham's the
kind of guy that'll be like I'll be right back
and go up on the roof But we'll see don't do
that HVAC tech. Yeah difference. I feel like
you can do anything. Yeah But anyway, we were
talking about just when you're involved in IT
at all, you and Mike always said learn as much
as you can about not just what you're doing,
learn about the hacking, learn about the blue
team, red team, all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And
I think, yeah, you can't break something unless
you know how it works. Exactly. So it's like.
You yeah, you do you have to you're you're not
going to be able to test a network I think like
learning about hacking hacking is like a Hacking
is not necessarily a A lot of people say like
hacking is a mindset right hacking is the like
the attitude that you carry with you into a challenge
of like how do I break this system down and analyze
the pieces? And then how can I get the pieces
of this system to behave in a way that suits
my needs, irrespective of the purpose that that
system was built for, right? And so, I think
you have to learn IT to become a hacker. You
can't provision a network pen test if you don't
know how network protocols work. So I don't know
if it's like, Learning hacking is not something
that you really... A lot of people like to fixate
on the practice of provisioning a penetration
test or exploiting things. Those skills are actually
quite simple. They can get really technical,
but at the end of the day, it's just book work.
I think like a big part of Being a like a lot
of blue teamers are hackers, you know, like right
right. They're not they they're not running like
offensive Engagements for a living but like blue
teamers come up with CVEs Yeah, like exploits
that push the field further because they are
like They are working with the defensive equipment
and they're steeped in their own network for
such a long time that they get a much better
view of the environment and the technologies.
And so then on their off hours, they've been
like, well, I've been staring at this monitor
for 100 hours this week and I noticed something
weird. And that's what it takes. It's just like
that kind of time. To make a sports analogy,
it would be like, you know, you're at training
camp and you're an offensive player. You still
know how to play defense. Yeah. You still know
how to defend a pass. And in fact, because you
know how to catch a pass helps you learn how
to defend that pass. Yeah. Yeah. You know what
I mean? It's kind of that same mentality. You
have to have one. You can't have one with the
other. And I think this ties this ties back into
what I was trying to say with the red teaming,
blue teaming thing is like red teaming is glamorous.
And so a lot of people think it's like the cool
field. Like when I go to DEFCON and I tell people
that I'm a pen tester, they're like, oh wow.
But it's like blue teaming is just as exciting
and just as necessary, if not more. Blue team
jobs, like network maintenance and network security.
like defense, sim operators and stuff like that,
those jobs outnumber red teamers 10 to one in
the industry. Absolutely. So they are they're
critically important. And I I'm not really that
great at it, which is why I'm on the offensive
side. But that is like the zone of genius for
many people in this field. And I think that it
has the the potential to be just as exciting.
The forensics and and like the digging. Like
if you love the chase. Yeah. That's what you're
doing all day. You're the cat in the cat and
mouse game. It's awesome. You know, this is so
great. And I feel like this is a hack question.
And I was like the first thing I asked Mike.
But you guys have not been on Good News York
yet. Actually, Mike has, but you have not. And
I feel like the viewers are at home thinking
this. This is the question. What so the guys
that are out there that are actual hackers and
that cause all these issues that we hear about.
Sure. What is the motivation for it? Is it pride?
Is it a financial thing? Is it a mixture of both?
What makes someone get up and go, I'm going to
mess with everybody today and ruin some lives.
I think I think threat actors are motivated by
a lot of different causes. That's like a very
that's a very case by case thing. Excuse me.
A lot of times it's financial. People need to
make money. Ransomware gangs. We now have seen
ransomware gangs that operate the same way as
like a modern office, you know They have a building
they go in they have like quarterly bonuses,
you know, that's like their thing They run it
like a company. Yeah, literally like a company
I always thought it was more of a freelance gig
where it's like I'm gonna fuck with this person
to do I mean, yeah, you would think that but
You would think that because like the hackers
in popular culture are portrayed as like one
guy in a hoodie sure off somewhere but like it
takes a lot of man hours to do I mean if you
think about Google or Meta any sort of like software
development company they build products and like
Software development is like difficult. It is
labor intensive It's not labor intensive the
same way that like building an apartment complex
is but it's like it's mental work and you have
to have like a conglomeration of of minds to
be able to build an effective product and so
like flying solo is it makes it very difficult
to take down big targets, especially hacking
is like It is a, humans are persistence hunters,
right? Like you follow the mammoth until it gets
tired, it lays down, you poke it to death, everybody
eats. Hacking is just as much like a persistence
hunt as like a hunter -gatherer kind of. There's
a lot of observing. There's a lot of waiting.
You're stalking prey. You're waiting for an opportunity.
You're sending... You're doing all of this research
to find exactly who to send this email to, how
to format it. When. Exactly. So that it doesn't
get blocked. What's going to give you the highest
chance of a click and then you get in. And if
you... Once you get a foothold onto the network,
again, you have a... bunch of defensive guys,
right? Their whole job is to look for anomalous
behavior and so everything, the more complex
an operation gets, the slower you need to move.
Because if you have, if you're a ransomware gang
and you're in a Fortune 500 and you're getting
in off one email, right? You have one workstation
that you've compromised, you need dwell time.
That's what it's called, that statistic of how
long a threat actor is able to persist within
a network before discovery, that's dwell time.
And the longer you have that, the greater access
you're going to be able to get, the more damage
you're going to be able to do. Dude, this is
awesome. That's amazing. What a great explanation.
So that's fascinating. Yeah. So Graham O'Donnell,
we're here. Meltek Solutions is the company.
Let's talk about the podcast before we go. So
you guys shoot a podcast with us called Hack
Dissection. It's absolutely it's one of my I
got to say one of my favorite. It's fun. Yeah,
it's awesome. Let's talk. Let's talk. Tell the
folks what can we expect with Hack Dissection?
What kind of topics do you guys discuss? What
do you what do you got coming up? I don't know.
We well, that's a lie. I do know. I'm on it.
Dwell time. He's got to figure it out. Yeah,
exactly. Persistent. I sound so smart. Yeah,
that was very good. That was very good, right?
Yeah. We talk about IT topics, security IT topics.
The podcast is called Hack Dissection. Yeah.
So most of the time, that's what we're doing
is we're discussing a hack, breaking it down.
But I think it's more of a general approach to
offensive security. I know our upcoming guest
is talking about a book that he's released. We're
probably going to talk about AI assisted penetration
testing, stuff like that. We do have a guest
coming up who we're doing a whole segment on
AI vishing, which is like you build a deep fake
of someone. their voice or maybe their likeness.
And then you you present that to a victim and
to try to fool them. You know, that's like a
new a big the hot new thing. Yeah, I've heard
it's scary. Yeah. People's like kids saying I've
been kidnapped. Exactly. That's awful. Yeah.
So we're going to do a whole segment on that.
So it's a lot of it's just a lot of like cutting
edge offensive security breakdowns. Awesome.
You know, taking those kinds of topics and bringing
them, just translating them into a more accessible
vocabulary. Awesome. I remember there was an
episode, you were like Carrot Top. You were pulling
out all these devices that could unlock doors
and stuff. So you can look forward to that too.
Hack Dissection right here at Growth Mode Content.
It's a phenomenal podcast. Graham, you are one
of a kind. Before we go, any plugs, anything
you want to, websites, events, anything? Oh man.
Yourself? I don't know. I I don't know. I wasn't
prepared. That's okay. We already did the plug.
I kind of did our tech That's pretty much all
I do. Well listen Ram O'Donnell, you are one
-of -a -kind human being and you're a genius
and I thank you for coming on Good News York
Check Graham out. He works for male tech solutions.
You need anything Regarding IT security Mike
Lisi and the crew. Yeah, they're they're they're
the ones you call and check out their podcast
Hack dissection. Graham, thanks for coming on
the show, buddy. Yeah, thanks for having me.
Yeah. And we'll be back tomorrow here on Good
News York and sponsored by ads on the go. Get
ads on the go dot com. Get ads on the go. Get
ads on the go. Welcome back to a bonus segment
on Good News York. I am joined by my favorite
person on the planet other than my daughter.
This is my son, Parker Brindisi. Parker, welcome
to the show. You are on Good News York. How do
you feel about that presented by ads on the go?
How do you feel about that buddy? Feel good Yeah,
yeah, so tell people you're really into baseball
now Yes, and you just got done with your season
talk about your first t -ball season. How do
you think that went? Great really great. Yeah,
you were slugging it man You I have a compilation
of all your at bats and every time you you hit
a bomb. And you and I have been working in the
yard on your defense. Right. What have we been
working on? Pop flies, grounders, pop flies and
grounders. And who's your favorite baseball player?
No, I gotta say all the time Aaron judge. Yes,
and my father -in -law fun fact said when I asked
if I could marry his mother He said under one
condition if the kids are Mets fans cuz I'm a
Yankees fan Well, they're Mets fans my daughter
and my son, but my son does like Aaron judge
and that's okay Cuz I always said I'm not gonna
tell you who you have to like but I'll tell you
who you can't like and that's the Red Sox Other
than that fair game Before we go What are some
other things you're into? You like WWE, right?
Well, ever since baseball, you're kind of getting
out of it. But who's your favorite wrestler?
Wrestler? No. Well, who'd we meet? We went to
wrestling. We met who? Oh, yeah, Cody Rhodes.
Cody Rhodes. That's your guy. Yeah, but then
there's an old timer that you love who's that?
Hulk and under Hulk and undertaker. Yeah, they're
amazing Well before we go we want to promote
anything. What do you got coming up? You want
to talk about we're gonna be doing flag football
soon I got a hard -hitting question actually
Who gave you your good looks your mom or your
dad? You know Good looks You know, I don't know.
You don't know? I'll tell you. Your dad. I'm
kidding. Your mom's beautiful. I gave you your
comedy wit, I think. All right. Anything else
you want to chat about before we go? We got to
get our shoot going here. Yeah. Go ahead. Well,
I need to talk about that. Speed it up because
it's 86 degrees in here. We got no AC. What you
wanna talk about, buddy? I'm alone. Well, you
wanted to come on. Come on. Now's your chance.
Promote it. Okay. All right. Okay. Who's your
favorite band? Let's do that. We'll end it there.
Come on. You and I love them. We watch them every
day. Say it. Metallica. Metallica. You have a
favorite Metallica song? What is it Screaming
suicide screaming suicides the one you choose.
I look like an awesome parent. That's my cue
All right, Parker. Thank you for coming on Good
News York. I love you more than anything and
Any last words? No, all right Thanks for tuning
into this bonus segment of Good News York brought
to you by ads on the go Parker brindisi