Hey folks, I'm Matt major from growth mode content.
Welcome to another edition of good news York
I'm joined again by my Smiley co -host in his
his spiky hair ready to go. Yeah, it's finally
getting back Mikey B's here. Thanks, man I'm
glad to be here. You have hair. It's Thursday.
I do have hair I'm I'm in the club of always
wearing the starting to get the Like, I'm blessed
because I know I have friends now. Was it moving
back? Yeah, I'm getting... You know what? I didn't
notice it until we started GNY and I started
watching the clips and I'm like, oh god. Yeah,
my forehead's getting bigger. Yeah, I was like,
it's growing. We need a billboard when we have
my forehead, but we're here. Enough about your
billboard, head. We've got a great guest joining
us today. Jim Williams is with us and this is
a gentleman that honestly we... We're not super
familiar with him. We saw a story in the paper,
and we said, this guy is doing some good things,
and that's the ideal type of thing we want to
bring in on Good News York. It was one of the
easiest bookings. I was like, Jim, we love the
article. We'd love to have you on. He said, let
me check you out, which was very smart. Because
everyone these days can say, I have a podcast.
You don't want to get into it. You never know
what you're getting involved in. We checked this
out, and we passed the test, and he's here with
us today. That's it. You passed the marker. I
love it. Jim, how are you, man? Welcome to the
show. I'm doing great. I'm doing great. You know,
another rainy CNY day, but I'm doing very good.
And thanks for having me on. Appreciate it. We're
glad to have you. The umbrella business is really,
their stock is through the roof these days. It
seems like it's incredible. Jim, let's give folks
a little background. Tell us kind of what you
do, what's your day job, and then we'll get into
what got you some attention here. Sure, sure.
So I've lived in Syracuse for over 30 years.
Came here and went to had a grad assistantship
in music up at SU nice So that's primarily where
my background initially was but always interested
in building so Took my music degree and turned
it into building stuff. So I do primarily commercial
construction Wow have an interest in in music
art building structure and Really love this area.
So That's my day job. I work for an organization,
Foundation Housing, and we do student housing,
renovate buildings completely. We're going to
look at doing some ground -up projects. We're
primarily all over New York State, so Troy area,
Albany area, Syracuse, Binghamton, Cornell, Ithaca.
That's what my day job is. You're you're you're
keeping these kids in some nice safer places.
I'll tell you they Dramatic improvement from
my college. Oh my gosh, you know the dorms and
in all these places now they have like a Gorgeous
apartment. I live like yeah, and we we primarily
do take older structures. We do some historic
tax credit projects That's great and really convert
them to something that that's usable for them
So but I came from a retail commercial construction
background did a lot of projects over at destiny
USA Oh, I did the IMAX over there bridge over
Hiawatha Wow a million square feet of structure
Hallways all sorts of stuff over there. That's
incredible. I live in Ithaca. So it's Especially
over the last ten years the transformation of
of housing and dormitories It's been just amazing.
Yeah. And a lot of modern, from what I... I mean,
maybe I'm wrong, but from my point of view, it
looks like a lot of modern architecture. It's
really exciting. Yeah, we try to do things that
are stylized that are going to, you know, be
interesting for people as well. It's not just,
you know, as you were saying, when I went to
school in the 80s, when I was in college in the
80s, it was just, you know, cinder blocks. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. So... But again, enjoy this area, enjoy
what I do, and decided I had worked in for -profit
industry, not -for -profit. There's been a lot
of talk about infill housing in the Syracuse
area, and the article recently was really primarily
about that. And Jim, tell people just real quick,
what do you mean when you say infill housing?
What's that term? So you're taking lots, either
vacant lots or structures that have been torn
down and created vacant lots. I see. And building
residential homes on those lots. I see. Whether
it's multiple parcels together, individuals,
individual parcels, it's just coming up with
an idea and a way to be able to use the existing
retail, real estate that we have. So I just...
being involved with, again, for profit and not
for profit, I saw there was a need for kind of
middle income housing. Yeah, absolutely. So my
idea, you know, I've got a lot of friends who
are looking for houses now, some younger people,
older people, and it's just not available. Yeah.
There are plenty of excellent organizations,
you know, home headquarters, Jubilee Homes, they
do great work and do a lot of new structures.
But a lot of that is grant -based, and there's
not a lot of houses available for people who
are just looking for homes. I live in Eastwood,
love the city. Nothing better to me than jumping
in my car and driving five or 10 minutes and
getting to some great restaurants, seeing some
great shows downtown, going to the art museums
that we have. And I think people really kind
of lose track of that in the city. There's a
lot of talk about negative things that happen,
but that happens everywhere. And we're not an
anomaly. Right. No, absolutely. And honestly,
it's one of the things that we've tried to focus
on here with Good News York is the positive.
Because you turn on the regular news, and that's
all you hear is that negative stuff. And you
think it's horrible. And honestly, it's that
way in every city. The crime rate doesn't even
matter. Good area, bad area. They'll find that
one story, and that is the entire 6 o 'clock
news. And unfortunately, that becomes kind of
the mindset. So folks that are really cheerleading
for this area is something we're a big fan of.
So that's great. And again, I appreciate you
having me on. And it's important to me to allow
people to have a different view of the city.
So I decided that I would been interested in
building. I have done this for 30 years and wanted
to also put a little bit of a stamp for me. There
are people in the industry that know who I am.
Most people don't. You said you saw an article.
And I'm sure that I have friends that said, I
can't believe you're in the paper. And other
people that just say, read the story and say,
well, what's a big deal? I can do that. And as
we're talking briefly before this started, You
need people that are going to act upon ideas,
not just have ideas. 100%. You live by that.
100%. You live by that. I really do. It's the
most simple concept and yet is typically the
biggest barrier. You have brilliant people, great
ideas, great plans that never make it out of
the little notebook. And you always speak of
that from an entrepreneurial standpoint. Sure.
It really it's across the board really in every
industry. Yeah Yeah, and and there are entrepreneurs
in every industry, right? And and we we you know
people have an understanding of that So this
all kind of started with an idea over a year
ago I wanted to do some infill housing. I went
down to New York City. I played trumpet I was
just I had some I had some guys that I know some
dudes down the city working on some horns was
sitting around waiting for them and and just
sketched up an idea that I had for a house. Wow.
So the lots in the city are very small. Sure.
And one of the problems is access to the lots,
being able to build on them. You have setbacks.
There's a lot of intricacies that people don't
really think about. Yeah. But I had an idea to
just design something, so threw it on paper,
and literally it was a cocktail napkin sketch.
That's awesome. So then on the flight home, I
ended up cleaning it up a little. Then... over
the course of a month or two ended up talking
to some friends of mine who are architects and
Sent them drawings and they did an initial sketch
for me Wow and Just kind of morphed into the
idea that it is now I met with Caitlin right
at the land bank to see if they had any property
I dealt with them when I was working at home
headquarters sure the construction department
there and She had some property available. I
looked at it and I said, I think this is a good
transitional area. Yeah. And so that's kind of
morphed into the idea that it is right now. That's
incredible. You. It seems like you're tapping
into something that that folks haven't yet in
many places where you're talking about these
lots, right? It seems like, you know, the landbanks
around and here's a building that's there and
that you can rehab. But you're sort of really
making use of the property. than a lot of other
folks are. Is that accurate? Well, it's not more
than a lot of other people are. It's a need to...
There are lots that you can't expand. Gotcha.
So a lot of what's happening is on multiple lots,
and they're dividing three lots into... resubbing
them into two. I see. To make them... to allow
for setbacks and necessities of kind of modern
living. Yeah. You know, I had done a project...
12 or 14 years ago on Park Ave. I was involved
with, it was called the Five Sisters. So we took
five Victorian houses, renoed them, and that
was something that people said we'd never be
able to sell them. And there were no comps in
the area when the organization I worked for at
the time went to sell them, so we had some difficulty
with banks. But ultimately, they all sold, and
everybody was happy in that whole area within
the city on Park Ave. is beautiful now. Yeah.
And that's over just a little over a decade.
One thing that I'm running into a little bit
of a problem is that financing, I'll just have
to do this kind of on my own. Sure. There are
a lot of banks that say, well, it's a great idea.
Well, if you're buying this for yourself, we
could give you a construction loan, but you're
in business. You haven't been in business long
enough. And just kind of what people run into,
the problems they run into. And my response is
always, you know, you're right. I'm a new business.
I've just been doing this for 35 years and done
some pretty large. Right. Yeah. But, you know,
also through that. And and again, it's it's working
with the land bank was great. And the the you
know, they they're providing a bit of a backstop.
We'll call it backstop. That's great. Where if
I gave them a budget. that was overarching from
kind of soup to nuts. And if I fall short of
a sales price with a fixed fee from a open book,
they'll cover some of those costs. Now, if I
hit my budget and don't need any money to meet
that budget, they don't do anything. Other than
sell me the property. It's an idea that I'm sure
a lot of people have had, but again. You know,
you need to act on it. And I know within the
industry, everybody wants to do a bit of smoke
and mirrors or costs of things and want to make
as much as you can. Sure. Another idea that I
had with this is I'm not looking for bottom dollar
contractors. I want to work with dudes I've known
in the industry for decades. Right. Or even some
new contractors I think are fantastic. Sure.
I've helped a lot of local MWBEs. I'm established.
There's some guys that I've worked with that
used to just do you know staircases and porches
and decks and now they're building homes and
people have gone from a hundred hundred and fifty
thousand dollars in in Revenue a year to four
four and a half million Wow, so and that's something
I've always been interested as well Yeah, I'm
a bit of a pied piper on occasion. I know my
wife would say I'm aggravating as hell But you
know, it's something I I feel I can motivate
people and kind of bring them along. And the
great thing about this above and beyond everything
is it's just kind of been the impetus to begin
discussion about it again. Yeah. I love that
about you. You're a loyal guy. You're kind of
like the Adam Sandler of commercial real estate.
You know, you just keep employing all your friends.
You got your core team. You got your core team,
man. But that's important. I always said no matter
what it is that if I succeed in an area, you
know, I want to not just not MC Hammer style
where I'm just going to employ my friends for
the fun of it. plug my friends in who have these
talents and skills so that we all do this together
and we all succeed. That's what a community is,
right? Society is kind of a collection of people
with diverse ideas and thoughts. and interests,
and you have a commonality at some point, so
why not grab those people and take them along?
I love that, man. And I always say this, too.
If somebody can do something better than me,
please do it. Yes, yes. I am all about motivating
people to be way better than me. I agree. I love
that. In this industry especially, you find there's
a lot of jealousy. You know, you're in music
and entertainment in general. I heard the most
simple statement a couple years back that was
like, just because someone is as talented or
more talented than you does not take away from
your abilities and talent. There's enough to
go around, you know? And so I think it's a really
healthy attitude. Do it better than me. And kind
of to jump off that idea, there's funding available
out there to help people. People are afraid to
build in the city. I don't think there's been
any... you know, mid -level scale of building
or somebody that really reached the middle point
of the market in 50 or 60 years. You have high
-end stuff, you have grant -based building, but
nobody is building for just kind of the common
man. Right. When you say they're afraid, what
do you mean? People are afraid that they're going
to have... a material stolen, people are concerned.
It's just like, it's as if anybody that... Gotcha.
Just the negativity of the area. So they're just,
like, intimidated by the idea. Yeah, it's not
a sense of discomfort in being in the city. Yeah,
I know. That makes sense. Now, there are people
that say, I wouldn't walk down streets in the
city. Well, I'll walk down just about every street
in the city. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's, unfortunately,
there's that, you know, misconception, and I
think a lot of that comes from we are really...
Rural area in general sure where we've got a
couple of pockets of these cities But there's
a lot of folks from outside and they still have
that which is as silly as it is then now the
big city Mentality, you know and the big scary
pool it To circle back. It's also the 24 -hour
news cycle. We were just talking at the right
the show where there's all they're saying that's
all the Negativity going on in these in these
you know metropolitan areas, and that's not really
what's going on. I mean Jim what? Something I
really appreciate is we're hearing all kinds
of things about the real estate market. A, it's
so tough. But also, as things are booming here
locally, we're getting all these investors and
all these weather that's local investors, whether
it's these horrible big venture capitalists that
are coming in and buying up houses, they're all
in it because of this massive profit. which,
you know, listen, I'm a businessman, I get it,
that's cool, but I think what you're addressing
is the fact that we're leaving behind everyday
families, you know, how are folks, you know,
who, like you said, they're not super rich and
they're not so poor that they can get some of
those other programs, they're... Right in the
middle and you know class they're getting priced
out of the market right and one of my ideas to
to address that the the Income for not only not
only somebody buying the house, but but develop.
Yeah, so I look at churn So if you do multiples
of anything, you're gonna make more money So
why not cut your profit a little make it palatable
for everybody and I have no problem or no qualms
with with you know, opening my books to the land
bank. And that was, you know, there was a program
that was available in the county for, there was
a few bucks that were available for houses if
you made them accessible. Well, that's for five
units or more. I tried to get some of that and
they said, you're only doing two units. And I
said, okay. So I was actually talking to Caitlin
at the land bank after that, and was a teeny
bit, you know, torqued about that, but. Sure.
I just mentioned that, and she said, well, let
me see, maybe we can do something internally.
And that's turned into what was in the paper
and what's just common knowledge and public knowledge
and available publicly. So if people are interested,
they can go on the land bank's website. They
can see the board meetings that I had to speak
at. And again, it's not, you know, I'm not in
this to denigrate anybody. I just have an idea.
No, you're helping. That's great. And there's
pushback on a couple different ends on occasion,
but I think it's important. 100%. And it's a
good idea, and I hope more people do it. So Jim,
tell me just a little bit about kind of the process.
Is this the sort of thing where you have your
buyer? sort of lined up even beforehand, or is
it more like a spec house? No, these are these
are completely on spec. OK, so it's completely
on spec. It's spec house. What is spec house?
Sorry. I'm going to play the role of the everyday
guy that doesn't know what's going on. Demonstrate
you build the model without a person picked out
for it. Got it. You know, sorry. If that's a
fair description. Yeah. Yeah. You're just building
something with the. anticipation that somebody's
going to sure got it so speculation right yeah
there's this you're speculating on the market
and it's no different than what an entrepreneur
does sure so it's it somebody has an idea you
think that your your ideas worth a certain value
has a certain value and you move on yeah so you
know just design is the first part finding the
property going through municipal approvals. It
took several months because the lot that I bought,
I re -subdivided into two lots. I see. So there
was a problem with the width on both lots. They
were actually three inches short of what the
minimum city standard was. So that held things
up for about three and a half months, just getting
approvals, going through the process. Now, don't
fault the city when zoning and planning regulation.
But there also needs to be maybe some administrative
approval for something that's so minor. Right.
And the irony is that if the lot was a little
short depth -wise, that there's administrative
approval. But nobody had thought that, hey, if
this is a couple inches narrower than what we
meet, the minimum lot width is 40 feet. These
are 39 feet, 9 inches. Wow instead of somebody
just looking at it and signing off. It's three
and a half months of yeah of waiting and meetings
and drawing so but so you do that and then just
Put together material lists and contractors and
get the stuff up and get done. That's awesome.
So When you you mentioned originally, you know,
your original drawing and then you went to the
architects and stuff. I'm just curious if when
you're designing these things, do you design
it sort of independent of the neighborhood or
do you kind of kind of factor it in to to match
other houses, things of that nature? So so scale
wise, I took a look at scale. Yeah. I wanted
something that would scale for the neighborhood
and the location. Gotcha. The width was really,
really the width of the house. It's a 20 foot
wide house. Gotcha. So everybody does things
that are kind of center -loaded and makes the
bedrooms really small. So I side -loaded the
house. And again, it's nothing that other people
haven't thought of. But just put that on paper
so the bedrooms and living spaces are good size.
The houses, I'm building one that's about 1 ,900
square feet. The other one's just a single -story
1 ,300 square foot home, but lay out really well.
I'll modify the exteriors, one will be a little
more modern, kind of straighter lines, streamlined
a bit more. And then do something, essentially
they're shotgun style houses. Gotcha. Do something
that's craftsman style. So I want something that's
going to be indicative of the character of the
neighborhood, but also be on occasion a little
different. That's awesome. And even going to
the architect, it was really more to put it on
paper. Yeah, just have somebody throw the design
in and put it on paper talk about some modeling
of things and and I've already met with trust
manufacturers to help with the trust, you know
trust design and I'm going to do a bit of panelization
of the houses. So show up so I can just put panels
up, not modular, but just so the structure can
get up quick. Yeah, that's great. So you're you're
a creative because you're a musician and obviously
you're in the field that you're in. Do you find
that like in music or? Entertainment you wake
up sometimes and you're like I have this amazing
idea for a house and you sketch it out You just
get random like design ideas. Yeah, I think you
just it's just like keeping a diary, right? Journal
I never never did that when I was a kid. So sure
when I when I was younger, too played music.
I went to school for music because I had a full
ride. They gave me everything, you know, for
room and board and torsion. But I did a ton of
drawing and painting when I was younger, too.
Yeah. Used to do one man shows and I grew up
in Connecticut and had one man shows at the high
school. Some stuff locally in a small town used
to do. designs for the newspaper that for front
pages of the paper they would pay me for. That's
awesome. Which is better than working at McDonald's.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. But really kind of did a lot
of stuff. Drawing, art, design, structure, building.
That's great. Music. And I don't think I think
society limits people too much now. I agree.
You can do you can be. completely multifaceted.
Yeah. And I love a lot of things. Art, music,
literature, academics. I love that, man. And
you have to be willing and wanting to incorporate
that into your personality and what you do. You
know, people look at your line of work as blue
collar and, you know, trucks and getting our
hands calloused. But people don't realize that
there's also a very huge there's a creative side.
It's it's it's it's an art. It's an art. Yeah.
Yeah. And I'm glad we can talk about that on
here to showcase. You know, and I like telling
people that, you know, I so I run a general contracting.
So, you know, I run everything. But. If I'm walking
around with a client and some dude's in a hole,
mud hole, struggling, let's hand somebody my
coat, jump in the hole, help the dude out, and
then get out. I am as comfortable with people
in a hole, in a mud hole, or at the top of a
mountain, smoking the world's best cigar and
drinking the best whiskey or bourbon. We gotta
hang out. I'm like, this guy's ear grade. I love
this. Jim, a couple quick questions, and we'll
let you get out of here. You mentioned this project
here that we're talking about. You got two parcels,
a couple of homes. What's next? You got another
one picked out after this, or where do we go
from here? I am looking at some other property.
The land bank floats lots by me. I just looked
at one in Eastwood the other day. I'm looking
at, I've had some people contact me directly
to build some homes. So I'm talking to some people
down in Long Island right now about building
some homes up here. It might be something where
I only do two. I might do two a year. I might
do, I don't know, 2 ,000. And I wanna incorporate
it into everything that I do. Just because I
run a business and... and fully invested in that
doesn't mean I can't do other things. Absolutely.
You know, again, my wife thinks I'm crazy. I
get up at 4, 4 .30 in the morning. I'm almost
60. I work out for an hour and a half and then
go to work and come home and do things, practice
my trumpet and, you know, go to bed at 10 or
11 o 'clock at night and do it all over again.
That's incredible. You're amazing, man. That's
incredible. Go ahead. Yeah, no, I just want to...
The last thing I had for you is... You know,
you're definitely inspiring a lot of people to
look at this. So can you just talk a little bit
about the opportunity for them? You know, how
would they go about reach out to the land bank
looking for these sorts of things? Yeah, they
want to do that. Yeah, absolutely. You can look
online at Syracuse Land Bank, Greater Syracuse
Land Bank, find out information about them, find
out information about building in the city. You
can talk to zoning, planning the building department.
There's a lot of stuff available now. that wasn't
available decades ago when I was younger. Yeah.
And I never thought that I would start a business
and do everything at the age I am. You know,
there are times where I used to just say, I'll
just kind of check in and check out, and that'd
last for a day or two, maybe two weeks. And I
just want to be somebody that motivates other
people. You know, we jump to music. I love teaching.
I figure I'm better than 98 % of the trumpet
players in the world. I've got a brother who's
world -class trumpet player. So I know what the
best of the best is. And just really want to
push people to do whatever they want to do. And
it doesn't just have to be in the building. Yeah.
That's great. That's great, Jim. I'm trying to
let the adults talk here, but I do have a couple
quick questions. Yeah, go for it. And this is
just gonna be me dumbing it down for the everyday
person. We were talking earlier about affordable
housing, and in Ithaca, that's a very big hot
button issue. I mean, it is everywhere. I guess,
and it's a broad question, but what are some
of the answers to getting affordable housing?
Like, where does it start? Where does it begin?
Is there anything we can do as citizens to push
this process? Well, this isn't affordable housing.
So the typical affordable housing would be 80
% of area median income or less. This is really
just market rate housing. Kind of for the person
that's got a family, is caught in the middle.
I mean, when I went to college, again, long,
long time ago, my parents had no money to give
me when they went to college because they made
too much money. So I want to keep the cost down
to a reasonable cost, market rate what the market
can bear, and make that available to everybody.
Anybody can buy the properties. That it's not
going to be dictated by either your wallet because
you're, you know, you make a ton of money and
you're going to spend five, six, eight hundred
million, two million dollars on a house, or you're
not going to get any grants to be able to assist
you. I just want to look at kind of the everyday
person that's looking for a home. That's getting
priced out of the market with bidding wars on
regular properties. That's great. Stuff that
should be market rate that unfortunately has
gotten out of control. And now the most important
question. Who were your biggest musical influences?
Well, I love Dizzy Gillespie. I had a feeling.
I love Gillespie. I love... All the earlier Clifford
Brown, earlier trumpet players, Maynard Ferguson.
I love jazz, classical, Maurice André. I play
the gamut in music. I do classical jazz. You
know, I've played with some rock bands. And it's
really, there's earth, wind, and fire, classic
horn section. So the, it's really, I think there's
a huge value to a lot of things in everybody.
I agree. I love artisanal stuff. You know the
coffee I came in from I got it from recess. I
love people that that I I want to support people
in the area Yeah, and and you know you do the
best you can. Oh, you're amazing. You're tower
power Yeah, love town. My dad grew I grew up.
I had some buddies that played with them Really?
Yeah in the in the 80s, you know, I I had dudes
that I was in Chicago and They're guys that came
through that became friends of mine that played
with us. Jesus. Tower of Power is, you know,
Chicago gets kind of, they're like the face of
horn bands. And Tower of Power within the music
industry, people know who they are, but I think
they're just completely underrated. So underrated.
Tunes like What is Hip. What is Hip. There's
some great Barry Sax parts. Trying to think,
digging on James Brown. The Tower of Power live
album changed my life. Gives me a different perspective
of you. Well, there you go. I'm a musician, too.
I had played in bands in the past, so as soon
as you said you played music, I was like, I know,
I'm gonna like this guy. Yeah, and I love classical
stuff, too. But I like big horn classical stuff.
Of course, yeah. Good music's good music. I love
where you're sitting in a horn section and the
people in front of you have to put a music stand
that's plexiglass in front of them because you're
playing too low. Yes. Or behind them. Yes. But
no, I appreciate you guys having me. Well, we
love having you. Absolutely. Anytime, Jim, anytime
you want to come back and chat it up, like I
said, we're here to, on a very similar mission,
it seems like, the more we talk. And I love that.
I love your values, especially for this area.
Jim, we've got some plugs. We've got a website,
anything like that, where folks might look at
these things? No, no website. I'm going to put
something up. So the business is Apogee. design,
build services. I have a consulting business,
too, Apogee Consulting Services. I consult with
the land bank and working with the regional market,
other people in the area. That's awesome. But
I'll put something up and make sure that it gets
out there. Great. That's great, Jim. And then,
you know, we're talking about the Syracuse Land
Bank, but a good little tip for other folks that
might be paying attention is they have these
sorts of land banks. Sometimes they're cities,
sometimes it's a county thing, but all over New
York, and I'm assuming in other parts of the
country, if you don't live in Syracuse and you
want to explore this opportunity, look for your
local land bank, because it's a hell of a resource.
Yeah, absolutely. And my sense is that if this
works locally, I think the funds that the land
bank here, and this is my understanding, it could
be a bit off. The funds they're using are land
bank initiative funds that haven't been used
by other land banks. So if this works, you know,
it's a small kind of getting back to the large
piece of pie. This is a small piece of the pie
that other land banks can and potentially will
use in New York. So I don't know. I like thinking
that this is kind of a pilot program for the
state. You're helping to prove the model. That's
for sure. Absolutely. Jim Williams, thank you
so much for joining Good News York. Uh, I think
that's it for the week, right? I don't generally...
Yesterday I thought it was Thursday. Yeah, I
know. Today it's actually Thursday. Yeah, have
a happy Memorial Day week and be safe out there.
We'll be back Tuesday. Yeah, that's right. We'll
be off on Monday. And our episodes always air
at GoodNewsYork .com, 5 p .m. Monday through
Thursday. And you can subscribe to our podcast
anywhere, podcasts. In every podcast app there
is. Just look for Good News York. Awesome. All
right. Peace out.