Hello and welcome back to the Pink Persuader
on mental health. Today, I have got someone with
me who I'm really glad to have on with me. I
have got Darren here who is a facilitator and
the event coordinator for Man Down. I want to
do this episode because men's mental health gets
talked about a lot and I talk a lot about men's
mental health, something I'm very passionate
about. Sometimes what really matters is the people
who are actually creating the spaces where men
can come as they are and talk honestly and realize
they are not on their own. So today is going
to be a proper real conversation about men's
mental health, support, community. and what it
means to create spaces where people feel safe
enough to open up. So first of all, mate, thank
you for coming on. No, thank you for having me,
Pink. I'm glad you've been nagging me to do this
for months. Since I said it. I think it's about
a year. Well, no, I think I did the last episode
in June, so it's coming up. Yeah, so yeah. It's
coming up for a year. But we'll start nice and
simple. So for people who might not know who
you are, tell us a bit about who is Darren. Who
is Darren? How long does this picture last? I
mean Christmas is after protein Yeah, I'm Darren
I'm a facilitator for man down and I'm also the
events coordinator for the organization and We
as an organization are trying to reduce the male
suicide rate and the stigma about talking about
suicide. Yes men age from 18 and that's what
is one of my passions I'm a suicide survivor
myself so I've been there yeah I know what it's
like in those dark places but also as you know
Dan as everybody knows I trained as a performer
the the the that that the there's so many different
neurodiversities and each one acts differently
but then there's crossovers are the same and
yeah I mean you've seen one of my habits when
I get excited or there's something I like I rub
my hands together a lot yeah for example I'm
like a kid in a candy shop yeah even now I do
it like today I went out with a friend the I'm
not pick up a few miles crazy, I mean that the
and not being able to uh latest diagnosis of
potential chronic illness with fatigue and the
fibro you know it is and it is very much like
there is a link between pain and your mental
health like my mental health has taken a massive
decline since suffering with my knee like you
know and i completely understand that it's just
like yeah toothache is one of the worst things
oh it is and i mean this week four visits to
the dentist uh the Yeah. that of our journey.
that the the Who was telling me about it saying
I should go along because from the outside people
can't really see what the person is going through
in the inside. So on the outside you know I guess
things perceive well he's done this is done that
he goes there but my mom, everyone thinks. Job
the jobs are good and but it's. That's not always
the case yeah so I got involved back in twenty
twenty one. the the Yeah. What they're going
to say if it's someone I know or they see me.
Especially in my local area, do you know what
I mean? You sit there and you worry about that.
Yeah, especially because I'm quite well known
in the area. Yeah. You know, people, what are
they going to think if I'm coming in and talking
about things that I haven't really spoken about
to anybody? And I walked in and there was a room
of about seven guys, I think, then. the the the
was like, no, that's cool that you came. And
then I went religiously. And then I stepped up
and became a co -facilitator in 2022. And then
I took over the St. Austal group later that year
where I became the lead with uh sent hostile
yeah uh because i wanted to give back yeah yeah
i think that's where i think me both being you've
had similar journeys like in the way of we both
found man down about a similar sort of time actually
i think i was probably about a few months before
you were i first started going to nuki and um
yeah it wasn't too long then like a year year
or so later then i stepped up and yeah i was
working alongside guys to facilitate the group
there um but as well the that the Where we can
we get on earlier about the the amount of members
we have now where it has grown yeah to the levels
that it has and Then I got offered the opportunity
To step up into a leadership role in the organization.
Yeah and become The events coordinator. Yes,
I thoroughly enjoy so I go out on the road With
my team which you're also yeah yeah yeah around
Cornwall. Two lovely events meeting lots of people
we don't follow this well we do have fun we have
great loss yeah you know on the road when we're
traveling setting up. We've get to watch rugby
games yeah go behind the scenes for example which
a lot of people don't get to see yeah of certain
things. and it's nice to hear with people that
are of influence, for example, say, well done,
you know, and to you guys as well on there, not
just to the directors or the hires -ups or anything
like that, but to actually the guys on the ground,
which we are. You know, we go to that the this
month, which is going to be good. Is that the
one with We Are One? Yeah, We Are One. This is
a little bit thing for all the players and the
organisations just to have a bit of fun that
are involved with that, with some touch rugby.
There will be some professional rugby players
there because there are professional rugby players
paying in We Are One. and it's not just about
rugby that we go to. We go to film nights, we
go to talks, presentations. We went to schools
as well. Me and a couple of the other guys went
and did an event over at Nuki, one of the Nuki
secondary schools, trying to reach the kids and
stuff. I think that's an important bit. I know
Ross has started working with the the Statistically,
most of the traumas that we experience that affect
our behaviors come from our childhood years,
our inferential years, what we see, what we learn.
Adverse childhood experiences. And the amount
it actually affects you. Doing the job that I
do, I've learned so much about that. And you
can sort of, you do, you see it. And when you
talk to guys, especially when they are a bit
older, you talk to them about their childhood,
you find out what's gone on in their childhood,
you will always find there is a little bit of
something that's gone on that's maybe just the
the Yeah, 28. That was when I first started talking
about my mental health. Like, all right, yes,
now, at 34, you cannot shut me up about mental
health, and I will scream it from the rooftop
to break the stigma and to find advocacy for
people. But, yeah, in six years, I mean, it shouldn't
have taken me to get to 28 to start talking about
my mental health. No, no, I was 41, so you've
got to think. Yeah. I was... this is it the the
my nor diversity either and someone who gets
us a little bit or understands us a little bit
more than normal. We live in a neurotypical world
and a lot of this world is extremely neurotypical,
even still schools to this day. It's hard for
us sometimes to conform to normal behaviors because
to us normal is who we are. What is normal at
the end of the day? pink haired viking yeah to
me that's normal that's my normal you know so
actually why would i want to be anything else
yeah i mean exactly and it's like what is normal
for me a mid -40s looking well mid -40s uh brad
pit cross sloth looking guy uh from from the
goonies who's a bit weird he sometimes makes
some strange noises or makes up weird songs or
the the That's what I got into at school because
that was an escape for me at school, an escape
from my life because I could be someone different
for a couple of hours on stage and take it out
of myself and become a different person. Like
a professional mask in a way. Well, that's what
I am. I am a trained mask wearer. When you go
to drama school, you are trained in the art of
mask. with Greek theater, a lot used to wear
masks. That's where the term comes from, masking.
So, you know, I would wear a mask as a performer.
I could be things that I'm not and do things
and play leads. You know, I was told things that
I didn't believe in myself at drama school. the
the Just paid me a compliment on my profile as
in my side profile or my facial profile And you
know, it's quite strange being told that because
I Was attacked when I was younger Okay, and I
had my nose Badly broken. So my nose is I think
it's broken about five times. So I became very
insecure about the way I look. Yeah that the
that the the the the the the the the and that
when I came in from being at the the the the
the the and it was learning how to deal with
that side of things as well as everything else
that's going on. The danger of anger issues is
obviously then you lose your temper, you can
get arrested, things like that. It's not actually
because of who you are as a person because you
are a genuinely lovely guy, but just because
you have anger issues doesn't mean you're not.
Then that anger issue can then cause an issue
for the rest of your life if... the the the the
or doesn't know what man down is listening to
the first time listening to this episode. And
they missed the episode where I explained what
man down is. And the only way I can describe
it is it's a group of friends getting together.
It's not clinical. We do have a laugh as well
as talking about the dark subject. I mean, we
often take the piss out of you, don't we? Quite
often. Yeah. I mean, we use that as a humor point.
Quite often. But if you guys are having a laugh
at me or whatever, it's taking you out of that
headspace for a second, where it's potentially
making a slight difference. The only time I ever
step in or anything if I think it's going too
far. Oh, of course. And that's the same with
anybody. If anything is going too far. then it
has to stop. Yeah, of course. Yeah, and everyone's
got to be comfortable. Yeah. Do you know what
I mean? We're here to make people feel safe.
Yeah. And people don't want to come to a meeting
where they're going to feel unsafe or bullied
or judged for any reason. Yeah, no. This is it.
And this is where the whole... Yeah, everyone's
welcome. Do you know what I mean? Every man is
welcome at a man down, whether they are 18 to
80. you know, whether you are gay, straight,
homosexual, do you know what I mean? And to be
fair, I think we've had all sorts of different
men walk in the door. And I think everyone's
always, yeah, I can speak definitely for our
group is where they've always felt welcome. Yeah,
and that's the thing, you know, is giving them
that welcome space as soon as they arrive. Yeah.
You know, as you know, with the meetings in St.
Austell, they're made welcome. yeah, everyone's
gonna be sad or everyone's gonna be crying and
maybe they're not ready for that but actually
then when they get in there and they sit and
they see the likes of myself and you having a
laugh and a joke and some of the other guys that
are in good spaces or actually even sometimes
when they're in bad spaces they'll make a joke
to keep themselves going but even the ones that
potentially are going through things themselves
you will see as the meeting progresses that they
but I still think that there are guys out there
that still struggle to open up though it is a
real struggle unfortunately you know that's a
generational thing and that will carry on throughout
the dawn of time because it isn't something that's
just happened or new mental health has been around
since man and women were created it is improving
there is so much more the the now we you are
a man that's aging up and you feel that you need
to talk or you need support or you need help.
There's meetings across the whole of the UK.
There's 46 locations at the moment and you've
just got to go. So take that risk and check out
the website www .mandown .org. See where your
nearest meeting is. Don't be afraid to walk through
that door because the And that was it. That is
the one time I've ever seen you do it. That's
my neurodiverse brain flipping in. I don't like
to be touched. No, I've got to do the hugs. If
anyone needs a hug at group, it's me that's got
to do the hugs. Yeah, I feel sorry for them.
I give good hugs. I don't know what you're on
about. I don't know. I don't want to find out.
But I mean, you had the most infectious laugh.
that the the the the the that the the the and
it is, we rely on donations, like a lot of organizations,
without the kindness of people, the support of
people with doing events, whether it's running
from John O 'Gropes to Land's End, which someone's
doing at the moment, they're on their way down
now, finishing on Saturday, whether it's playing
rugby, whether it's running 27 miles, the the
a lot of fundraising for running the Plymouth
Half Marathon. I think I raised about £1 ,700.
I got a letter from the directors and they explained
that actually that amount of money was enough
to keep a group going for a year. When you think
about it in that respect and you think about,
what did you say, 46 groups? 46, yeah. So you
think how much money that takes to keep the I
think is very good is that we make sure people
know us and they see the brand. We've got quite
a great logo that stands out. People see it now
and you know the facts that we do sell merchandise
which always goes back into the organization.
that the Yeah. the organizing that you do to
get these events going. So not just to help the
reach, to reach people, but to help keep them
going. There's a lot of work behind the scenes,
you know, all the volunteers, you know, put in
time and hours and everything. And for me, it's
like a full -time job on top of my full -time
job. Yeah. But I enjoy it. It's given me a purpose.
It's given me a reason. I love being on the road.
Yeah. I love going out and meeting people. There
is, I think, a joy of talking to people out in
the community, I think, when we go to events
and, you know, getting to chat to someone and
making, especially when that person can come
up to you and be like, oh, you know. maybe they've
had an experience from Man Down or it's their
first time reaching out to someone and they've
come to you and they've decided to come and reach
out to you because you are there. There's something
special about that. There is and you know when
we're at the events we often get people come
up and share with us because they need someone
to talk to. Yeah. And it's about listening because
the most important thing is listening. Active
listening. It's not hearing, it's listening and
actively listening. and processing and taking
that in. And for us as facilitators and everything,
we've got to remember to give ourselves some
time, me time, because when people are offloading,
we will soak in some of that. Yeah, there are
times I can think of times I've left the group
and gone. Jesus that was heavy. Yeah, I mean
you have to take that time to process and because
we often deal with some serious Serious issues.
Yeah that we have to hear. Yeah And it's it's
like, okay, I need to go home chill for me the
way I relax is I've being neurodiverse the Yeah,
man down team versus was it? Well, they're the
site team here. Where was it? My caravan is so
we've got a group of friends. So we enjoy quizzes.
Yeah, like, you know, I enjoy quizzes. I genuinely
I don't often take part in our local one here,
but I do quite sit here and I sit and sort of
sit there and normally by the end when they read
out the answer, like, maybe I should have taken
part. And the thing is, you're most probably
going to be like a quiz master or something,
but it's I've gone off the subject then and I've
completely forgotten what we were talking about
I like to relax when I get home so I will put
on a movie yeah have some quiet time I don't
want to really talk when I get home I just want
to yeah sometimes it's that silent process and
if I've had this is gonna sound really sad and
cheesy the the the I've gone got back into gaming
a bit recently as well like I'll sit and I'll
play something that's just you know a bit maybe
like Minecraft or something like that. It's simple
that I can just concentrate on. I can see you
in Minecraft playing Jack Black's character.
Was it Steve? Yeah. Steve? Yeah. As some of my
followers know from TikTok I have sang the the
lava chicken song on TikTok and yeah. I think
you were hoping I was gonna say Jason Momoa.
No, no, I'll never be Jason Momoa. Dude's a legend.
And you're about a foot shorter. Yeah, I'm more
Jack Black's build. And not Samoan? No, yeah,
I'm not Samoan. Definitely not, no. Well, Jason
Momoa's from Hawaii, I think, but with Samoan
descent. Yeah. I mean, I'm going to ask this
now, because normally, whenever we talk actors,
you sit there and go, yeah, I've worked with
them. Who worked with Jason Momoa? that's cool
I think because he doesn't look that tall he
doesn't one film he doesn't especially like if
you've seen him in point break or yeah in speed
where he's a bit more muscular than his earlier
ones like bill and ted and things like that and
he's put on a bit of muscle yeah uh he doesn't
look that tall but when i met him you know he's
about six two six three so he's a tall guy yeah
uh and he was just genuinely really nice the
the that the that the that the if you are a Doctor
Who fan or anything like that, if you're listening
to this or Guardians of the Galaxy. Yeah. Karen
is absolutely lovely and beautiful. I got to
work with her on a project for the BBC. And it's
when she was starting to form a name. She was
still in Doctor Who at that point. Yeah. And
before she got Nebula. But absolutely that was
That was great. I mean what could be here talking
all day? I was about to say after time like I'm
just saying I know we could we could sit and
talk like this all day Yeah, well the favorite
person though. There is one more story the favorite
You know, I'm a Superman fan. Yeah, so I I love
Superman Favorite movie growing up the Christopher
Eve. Yeah Superman I Was doing my first paid
job in the West End that that that the that's
cool. He goes, I know someone in that. And I
was like, oh, okay. Nice. And in Superman 1 and
2, you remember you've got General Zod, Ursula
and Non. And it was Ursula he knew. Sarah Douglas.
And one night he said, there's someone in the
audience for me. I was like, well, that's quite
strange because I recently just lost my father.
the the the the that the that the you think the
the I'm hurting. And it's much better than the
alternative, isn't it? It is. And people say,
no one will miss me if I'm not here or life will
be much easier if I wasn't on the planet. No,
it wouldn't. Life would be harder without you
here. The impact will have a knock -on effect
of that. The world's a better place because you're
here. And I think that's true because actually,
You never know. If you walk through the world,
there's always someone that notices you. No matter
what, you've touched someone's life. At some
point in your days, you've touched someone's
life. Exactly. When you came in dressed like
Billy Connelly in Eddie Hall's Love Child in
the meeting and you're cute and everything like
that, that touched me. That made my day. That
made me smile because you were like, I don't
care what people think about me or what I look
like or whatever. yeah i'm me and this is my
personality and i'll dress the way i want to
dress and this is me so yeah and that's part
of being that's the confidence i've gained being
i think more recently being the pink persuader
like doing what i do with social media and the
podcast and now the books and everything that
that confidence has grown from that because actually
it's a case of do you know what I've done this
yeah you know there is nothing anyone can say
to me that's gonna go make me feel bad about
the fact that I like to wear a kilt that you
know all right I do not wear it traditionally
because yeah I'm not very good at sitting in
a way that people would not see something they
don't want to see yeah yeah that's true I'm glad
you wear underwear the that that that is without
doubt if it wasn't for those two what's your
tick tocks and some of the people who follow
you interact with your stuff you make a difference
in your making an impact on those people. And
you know helping their lives and you don't like
compliments I hate so so I'm not gonna compliment
you guys otherwise this will have a load of expletives
in it and you won't ever be able to publish it
on site I always. Will say that the. the No,
this is a natural conversation Darren everything
stays in. Okay, this is full This goes out like
that. Okay, so um, but so I've been doing recently
especially since I've been writing the sagas
and stuff like that is At the end of each episode
now. I'm doing a saw I've written I'm writing
I've got dressed up as a Viking. You don't have
to dress up. You can just You can listen to one
of my sagas that I have written specifically
for this episode um so these these are just read
out on here these are not in my book yeah this
is brand new this is brand new exclusive yeah
yeah yeah so everyone that is listening to this
you're hearing this because we're pre -recording
this you're the first person to hear this so
so it's the saga of the fire that was shed there
was once a man who walked through the dark with
a torch clenched tight in his hand he held it
close because he thought that it was that was
what strength was carry your own flame say you're
fine keep moving do not let anyone see you struggle
against the wind and while and for a while that
torch was enough to keep him going but the road
grew longer the night grew colder and there came
a point as there does for so many where the flame
began to shake. Not because he was weak. Not
because he had failed. But because no one was
meant to walk every dark road alone. Then, in
the distance, he saw something unexpected. Not
a hero on a hill. Not a man shouting orders.
Just a fire. A shared one. And around it stood
other men. Not perfect men. Not fearless men.
Just honest ones. Men who knew what it was to
be tired. Men who knew what it was to carry too
much in silence. Men who had learnt that sometimes
the bravest thing a person can do is step closer
and say, I'm not all right. and something changed
there. Because when one man shares his flame,
another does not become smaller. The fire becomes
stronger. That was once one torch in the dark
became warmth, light, laughter, truth, and the
kind of strength that does not come from pretending.
It comes from being seen. So if you are out there
tonight carrying your own torch with shaking
hands thinking you have to keep walking alone,
hear this. You were never meant to do it all
by yourself. There is no shame in stepping towards
the fire. There is no weakness in being honest
and there is still warmth waiting for you. Much
love and be more kind. the the the viewers listeners
yeah listeners i'm not even being filmed i know
no this is it um but guys thank you thank you
so much for listening as always uh thank you
for your support um this has been the pink persuader
on mental health thank you darren you're welcome
for coming on uh look after yourselves look after
each other and as always much love and be more
kind You don't have to walk alone We'll be here
another day Until you're ready to come home