WEBVTT

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From the mind -blowing and the macabre to the

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scandalous and the sinister Let's investigate

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the critical connections between history's strangest

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and most notorious lessons and our world as it

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is now Welcome to weird wicked and wild All right,

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let's get at her all right, let's do it All right,

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everybody. Thank you for tuning in. Um, kind

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of crazy to think that this is our last episode

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of our first season. Wow. So for those of you

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who've made it through all of the episodes, thank

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you so, so much. Uh, for those of you who may

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just be tuning in now, I'd encourage you to maybe

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go back to the beginning and kind of take a journey

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through this whole idea of fascism. that we decided

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to lean into here. Uh, you know, so many episodes

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ago, so many months ago, and it's kind of crazy

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to think that, you know, we really starting out,

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um, we're trying to call out what we saw as,

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you know, fascism and, you know, uh, examples

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of it in our modern day society. And I think

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everybody has kind of decided to join in now

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because it seems like fascism is the, uh, is

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the buzzword, uh, for today. So Going to go ahead

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and jump into it. We've got a really interesting

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episode today and I think it's incredibly, um,

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relevant to the world we live in today. So without

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further ado, here we go. You know, my questions

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always like to ask them. So before that, I'm

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going to just set the stage for you. So I think

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we can all agree that words have power, right?

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But have you ever stopped to consider how much

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power they have? I mean, isn't it kind of crazy

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how a bit of clever phrasing or a change in conversation

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can steer our emotions and maybe even obscure

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our sense of the truth. Now you're saying words

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have power, but I was always told that sticks

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and stones, you know, something about breaking

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bones and whatever words can never hurt me. Yeah.

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But I mean, I've also heard. Words like weapons.

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So where do you, you know? I mean, that's the

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beauty of this dichotomous world we live in,

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right? It is pretty wild how a tiny turn of phrase,

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as you mentioned, might totally flip the script.

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If I make a mistake, it's on me to correct the

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mistake and to potentially apologize if an apology

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is warranted, right? But if mistakes were made,

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Then nobody's to blame that's just the universe

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being somewhat random and unpredictable Mm -hmm,

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man. That's definitely powerful in the rhetorical

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sense in the literal sense I mean, that's really

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really powerful stuff and kind of insidious.

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It's kind of Almost wicked. Yeah. Yeah it is

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I mean, you know that whole like you said if

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we're stakes We know if if I were to make a mistake,

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you know I own it. It's accountability, but,

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but yeah, the, if framing in a situation like,

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well, mistakes were made and you see, I think

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you see a lot of this in, um, well, corporate

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America, I think a lot of, you know, in other

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instances, of course, you know, where, I mean,

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yeah, nobody takes accountability if mistakes

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were made. Well, like who, who made those mistakes?

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It's like almost saying, well, we'll just agree

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to disagree when, you know, Sometimes there's

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clearly a right point and a wrong point. I mean,

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let's just be honest. Right. What an empty phrase

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will agree to disagree. Well, we are disagreeing

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and I think that I'm correct. So obviously we're

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going to I don't know if it seems like we're

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disagreeing. I disagree with you agreeing. It's

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agreeing. I disagree. Yeah, I disagree. Yeah,

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we can we can take this to the 10th to the 10th

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power. It's just I mean, what if you said that

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to somebody? What if it's like, well, wow, just

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cause we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

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It's like, well, I disagree. I did. Well, I,

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you're going to have to agree to, um, I disagree.

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All right. Whatever. Like these words, right?

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These words and how we put them together is so

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crazy. Like how we can they have. Yeah, and they

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have power, but they should have meaning if they're

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going to have power, they should have meaning,

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they should have clarity, they should have everything

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that they require for us to actually analyze

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and process what is being said to us so that

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if necessary, we can push back. Right, right.

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We need to be informed in every decision that

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we make. We can't just make blind decisions because

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blind decisions, well, let all decisions impact

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other people, not just ourselves. And blind decisions

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tend to be distractive and destructive. So we

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need the coded information that words and phrases

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and sentences have in them in order to make these

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decisions in any kind of logical or analytical

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way. Right. Right. We have to, we have to know

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what's being said. Right. And I think sometimes

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we have to, it's like, you almost need your oval

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team decoder ring nowadays to really understand,

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to really understand what people are saying,

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because the way that we flip and the way that

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we interchange words and assign new meanings

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to words in a way, um, just because of the way

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that we use them. And, um, it can, like, you

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know, like you said, man, it can be so damaging.

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I mean, it really can be absolutely insidious.

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Yeah. Well, this is where Umberto Eco decided

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to end his list. His 14th feature of Ur -Fascism

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is what we know as Newspeak. And it's all about

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the way the language is being manipulated in

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order to limit people's ability to... get as

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much information out of the language as they

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need to make these decisions and This this actually

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seems to happen actually kind of broadly across

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Social bounds and sort of everywhere that we

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see it. Yeah, we're in the political power Especially

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an authoritarian political power gets a hold

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of this kind of stuff. It can turn bad really

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quickly. So From echo as always for the last

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time Newspeak was invented by Orwell in his novel,

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1984, as the official language of Ingsoc, English

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socialism. But elements of Ur -fascism are common

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to different forms of dictatorship. All the Nazi

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or fascist school books made use of an impoverished

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vocabulary and an elementary syntax in order

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to limit the instruments for complex and critical

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reasoning. But we must be ready to identify other

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kinds of new speak, even if they take the apparently

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innocent form of a popular talk show. Wow, that's

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as usual, a lot to unpack. But really, it sounds

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like, you know, it's just. Like almost like dumbing

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down. What we're saying to get to get our point

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across, but I think almost doing it in a way

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to to maybe limit the destructive power of what

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it is that we're delivering. Maybe, you know,

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I mean, it seems like the limit. maybe the destructor

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or the destructive power of the pushback to it.

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I think maybe, but I don't know. Yeah. What were

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you going to say? Yeah. No, I was going to say,

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I mean, it seems like a simple concept. I mean,

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you know, the idea of manipulating language to

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kind of sidestep the truth or, you know, at least

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to muddy the waters a little bit, to make things

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a little bit less clear and not as easy to understand.

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Um, but obviously fascists are not the only ones

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to do that, you know? So, I mean, like what other

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kind of new speak would we hear in our daily

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lives? Uh, so think about, um, your experience

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in the corporate world. You've had quite extensive

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experience. Think about how many times you've

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heard the corporate types talk about things like

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downsizing, you know, what, what they're really

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talking about there is firing people. Right laying

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people off getting rid of people Firing sounds

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bad firing is harmful people are impacted by

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being fired Downsizing on the other hand. It's

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almost quaint almost harmless by comparison It's

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just part of the business cycle. And so we use

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that kind of language to refer to something that

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is bad To make it seem less bad, right? Well,

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you know, what's interesting to that point is

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I even think that corporations have moved past

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the word downsizing to layoffs because if you

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think about it, think about it. If you're okay,

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if you're a customer of a organization or some

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kind of corporate entity out there and you hear

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that the company's downsizing, are they going

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to be able to meet my needs? But if they're just

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laying some people off and it's a certain number

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and you know that this A company has, you know,

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7 ,000 employees and they're laying off 500 give

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or take. Well, that's a small percentage. I'm

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sure that they can handle that. They'll just

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push off the, uh, the tasks to, I'm sure another

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team or whatever. Um, so a layoff from a competitor,

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from a not competitors, uh, stamp over from a

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customer standpoint, doesn't sound so threatening,

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but a downsizing. Well, that might, that might.

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Well, and you even threw in there a statistic

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right five hundred and let's say seventy five

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out of seven thousand or whatever it is right

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that sounds like a big number by itself but out

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of seven that oh that's a very small percentage

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and so you get this statistic that obscures the

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fact that five hundred and seventy five human

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beings Now have to try and make ends meet without

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their income, right? Right. So right, but these

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are all sort of you know, negative examples,

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right? Uh, there's other stuff from the workaday

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world that isn't inherently negative. Think about

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human resources departments. That sounds like

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a department in service to human beings, right?

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But it's really, let me just chime in. They've

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even changed that. They've even changed that

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from human services to guess what? People services.

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Wow. So how does that sound? Well, that sounds

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well. I mean, all of it's a polite way. Right.

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All of it's a polite way of saying that employees

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are just numbers and inputs in an algorithm managed

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by a somewhat faceless department. We don't really

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know who's in HR or people services or what have

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you. Right. It's a faceless department. It's

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always actually watching for us to screw up because

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HR is there to protect the company. Well, that's

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it. That's just it. Yeah, exactly. If you know

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it, I don't, I don't. I don't know that. I mean,

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now I have probably some of them are sitting

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in the shadows waiting for people to screw up.

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I don't very much know that they're waiting for

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that, but like they're looking for it because

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if it happens, you're right. Their job, you know,

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is to protect the company's reputation, its liability,

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you know, all of the things that could potentially

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tarnish a company's reputation. Um, and it's

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interesting because like you said, we use the

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terms like human resources or people's services.

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To name a department that is really there to

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serve the company's interests and not, not necessarily

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the person or the people or the employee, the

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single employee interest. After all though, it's

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the human resources department that'll process

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all of the downsizing, right? Well, that's it.

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And you know, and not to paint human resources

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as a completely, you know, negative because obviously

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they do things. I mean, they step in and times

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when there's conflict or any harassment. So,

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I mean, they, they do really protect the employees

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and senses like that. But again, if you take

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a step back and look at the larger picture, they're

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doing that to protect the company because if

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a employee is hurt. or, you know, um, physically

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or emotionally in any way, you know, because

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of unwanted advances or any, any, uh, number

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of things. I mean, again, that looks bad on the

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company, you know? Um, so, I mean, again, it's

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just interesting. It's an interesting example.

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Well, and we we like snappy catchphrases and

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things like that and so a name like Department

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that watches for employees to screw up but also

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protects employees against discrimination and

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other things that are against federal law That's

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a big name. We don't want that. We couldn't even

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make an acronym out of that So that human resources

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captures all of it right it allows us to simplify

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What is actually a pretty heavily complex and

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layered? department that absolutely within a

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lot a lot right so new speak as echo interprets

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it is language that reduces moral complexity

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and narrows any kind of critical thought or analysis.

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It makes bad things seem benign. It simplifies

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intricate information into slogans and into binaries.

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If you think about the gender question, it's

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been a binary for so long, but really we know

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that there's much more to it than that. And it's

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just been simplified by the language that we

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use. It presents ideology as common sense. and

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common sense itself is an example of new speak,

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right? It's taking what is actually sometimes

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not common sense, what is not necessarily accessible

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by everybody and boiling it down to here's the

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basic facts that if you don't know, you're just

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a dumb ass or what have you, right? Well, yeah.

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It's interesting because I mean, as you're, you're

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just, you're just scratching the surface, but

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all I can think of right now is Trump. I mean,

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honestly, I mean, the way that he boils everything

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down into a slogan. Basically, you know, whether

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it's make America great again or drain the swamp

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or lock her up or water about her emails or,

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you know, I mean, we hear, I mean, Jesus Christ.

00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:51.059
I mean, for the last 10, 12 years, this has been

00:14:51.059 --> 00:14:53.379
one thing. What about a birth certificate? You

00:14:53.379 --> 00:14:55.440
know, I mean, like it's just one thing after

00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:58.639
the other man. And it's like, he's, he's really

00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:01.759
good at that. But I mean, there's no, even on

00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:04.529
the stuff that's policy, you know, like. build

00:15:04.529 --> 00:15:07.370
the wall, you know, uh, which could, should be

00:15:07.370 --> 00:15:09.850
immigration policy, but that's, that's it. You

00:15:09.850 --> 00:15:13.309
know, build a wall, you know, or, or deport them

00:15:13.309 --> 00:15:15.450
all or, you know, I mean, like, Jesus, I was

00:15:15.450 --> 00:15:17.090
like, and I think it was off the top of my head.

00:15:17.230 --> 00:15:19.710
I mean, think about how many are out there of

00:15:19.710 --> 00:15:21.789
like what we've heard this, and this is all,

00:15:21.970 --> 00:15:25.669
this is all news speak. Yeah, and well and he's

00:15:25.669 --> 00:15:28.809
a great example absolutely and he's a great example

00:15:28.809 --> 00:15:33.230
of how this whole thing Let systems governments

00:15:33.230 --> 00:15:36.909
ideologies choose our words and define the parameters

00:15:36.909 --> 00:15:41.590
of our thought Mm -hmm, right This also, you

00:15:41.590 --> 00:15:45.990
know, it is words Catchphrases slogans and things

00:15:45.990 --> 00:15:48.269
like that, but it also goes to places that are

00:15:48.269 --> 00:15:51.070
sometimes a little less obvious catchphrases

00:15:51.070 --> 00:15:54.389
and buzzwords are perceptible as distortions.

00:15:54.389 --> 00:15:57.250
We can hear them. We know on some level, even

00:15:57.250 --> 00:16:00.450
if we parrot them, that they're distortions of

00:16:00.450 --> 00:16:03.710
the language, right? Orwell's inclusion of it

00:16:03.710 --> 00:16:07.690
in 1984 in the form of words and buzzwords and

00:16:07.690 --> 00:16:11.169
catchphrases was meant somewhat to satire the

00:16:11.169 --> 00:16:13.769
extreme nth degree to where this will go, to

00:16:13.769 --> 00:16:16.759
where the fascists of the 20th century and Today

00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:20.240
have gone with it, right? But echo also mentions

00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:23.340
something as innocuous as talk shows, right?

00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:27.720
And if you think about the late -night monologues

00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:30.740
that are the most common today They're usually

00:16:30.740 --> 00:16:33.139
calling out some kind of political chicanery

00:16:33.139 --> 00:16:36.019
But they're doing so with jokes and with humor,

00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:38.860
right? We laugh along and we sort of develop

00:16:38.860 --> 00:16:42.419
this idea We take from this that very serious

00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:45.279
issues that are actually impacting a lot of people

00:16:45.529 --> 00:16:48.789
are just funny and therefore not real much a

00:16:48.789 --> 00:16:52.129
cause for our concern. Now, I'm not suggesting

00:16:52.129 --> 00:16:55.789
in any way that Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert

00:16:55.789 --> 00:16:58.769
are fascists. Of course not. Matter of fact,

00:16:58.830 --> 00:17:01.950
Jon Stewart has called this problem to our attention

00:17:01.950 --> 00:17:04.470
before himself that if more people are getting

00:17:04.470 --> 00:17:07.150
their facts from The Daily Show, a comedy and

00:17:07.150 --> 00:17:09.930
entertainment show, than from legacy news or

00:17:09.930 --> 00:17:12.789
even independent news, then something has shifted

00:17:12.789 --> 00:17:14.849
in this country that might be irreversible. So

00:17:14.849 --> 00:17:17.190
no, I am not suggesting that these guys are fascists.

00:17:17.190 --> 00:17:19.230
They're not in on this. This is just what has

00:17:19.230 --> 00:17:22.579
happened in our society. In the rhetorical sense,

00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:26.319
late -night monologues obscure the often dire

00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:29.359
substance of the issues at hand. And so we have

00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:32.319
a television audience that really doesn't have

00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:35.000
the correct information to make critical analyses,

00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:38.500
which means that we accept humor and we accept

00:17:38.500 --> 00:17:42.220
corny platitudes as truth and we ignore anything

00:17:42.220 --> 00:17:44.640
deeper or more serious that might require some

00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:47.609
actual thought. Well, yeah. And I think that

00:17:47.609 --> 00:17:53.049
it goes also to the point of, well, I mean, it's,

00:17:53.049 --> 00:17:54.609
it's entertainment, right? And that's what it's

00:17:54.609 --> 00:17:56.549
meant to be. But to your point, if people are

00:17:56.549 --> 00:18:00.250
like digesting it as news, then it's like, they

00:18:00.250 --> 00:18:05.109
almost turned down the, uh, the anxiety, which

00:18:05.109 --> 00:18:06.869
may be a good thing, I'm not sure, but they turned

00:18:06.869 --> 00:18:08.630
down the anxiety of like what they're actually

00:18:08.630 --> 00:18:11.960
hearing because it's being presented in a, in

00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:13.819
a comedy format, you know, where, I mean, like

00:18:13.819 --> 00:18:16.180
you're supposed to laugh at like the absurdity

00:18:16.180 --> 00:18:18.000
of what's going on, but really the absurdity

00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:19.859
of what's going on is like our country's falling

00:18:19.859 --> 00:18:22.940
apart or like we're doing some atrocity overseas

00:18:22.940 --> 00:18:25.799
or something to that effect, you know, or I mean,

00:18:25.819 --> 00:18:29.740
like, you know, there's a cabal of democratic

00:18:29.740 --> 00:18:34.480
leaders that are, you know, orchestrating a child,

00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:38.539
uh, trafficking scheme, which turns out apparently

00:18:38.539 --> 00:18:41.849
they're actually Are two of those on the Republican

00:18:41.849 --> 00:18:44.970
party and, you know, finding out about their

00:18:44.970 --> 00:18:48.230
cat, you know, the education cabinet member and

00:18:48.230 --> 00:18:50.329
potential issues there too. But, you know, we

00:18:50.329 --> 00:18:52.210
won't get too far down that road, but I mean,

00:18:52.470 --> 00:18:55.109
the point being is how, I mean, you know, this

00:18:55.109 --> 00:18:57.210
is like a little offset, you know, it's not going

00:18:57.210 --> 00:18:59.089
to be a righteous rant. It's a little sidestep

00:18:59.089 --> 00:19:00.970
here, but I mean, like, you know, you really

00:19:00.970 --> 00:19:03.589
need to look at the Republicans and really look

00:19:03.589 --> 00:19:06.609
at the topics and the issues that they take the

00:19:06.609 --> 00:19:10.960
strongest, um, offense to. Because I swear it

00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:13.900
really, truly does seem like nine times out of

00:19:13.900 --> 00:19:18.480
10, they're the ones doing it. I think the issue,

00:19:19.259 --> 00:19:21.059
and I mean, we won't know because we can't see

00:19:21.059 --> 00:19:23.460
medical records, right? It might be the abortion

00:19:23.460 --> 00:19:26.099
issue is the one that they're actually not doing

00:19:26.099 --> 00:19:30.019
and preaching against. Well, they, they, they

00:19:30.019 --> 00:19:34.000
want the abortion issue, uh, only up to the birth,

00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:38.269
right? So, right. Those are whole. Anyway, no.

00:19:38.490 --> 00:19:42.170
Yeah, they're they're trying to make illegal.

00:19:42.289 --> 00:19:44.410
Like you said, the things that they are the ones

00:19:44.410 --> 00:19:46.769
themselves doing because they're trying to exercise

00:19:46.769 --> 00:19:49.369
the demon or whatever it is that's going on their

00:19:49.369 --> 00:19:51.890
own demons, I guess. But but that's neither here

00:19:51.890 --> 00:19:54.789
nor there. We're back back. We're sidestepping

00:19:54.789 --> 00:19:57.930
back to the to the topic at hand and back to

00:19:57.930 --> 00:20:00.269
the news speak. Sorry about that, y 'all. You

00:20:00.269 --> 00:20:03.910
know how we go. So, I mean, we were talking about

00:20:03.910 --> 00:20:07.970
how, you know, a lot, you know, with like comedians

00:20:07.970 --> 00:20:09.569
and talk shows and things like that. Cause I

00:20:09.569 --> 00:20:11.569
think comedians are also a part of this. I mean,

00:20:11.589 --> 00:20:14.250
if we really look at like the comedians like

00:20:14.250 --> 00:20:16.710
Joe Rogan and like the alt -right comedians,

00:20:16.769 --> 00:20:19.410
I mean, there's the kill Tony, uh, you know,

00:20:19.549 --> 00:20:22.309
comedy show. I mean, really helped usher in a

00:20:22.309 --> 00:20:27.009
lot of, um, I don't want to say usher in because

00:20:27.009 --> 00:20:28.589
I think it was already there. They just kind

00:20:28.589 --> 00:20:32.500
of pulled back the, uh, the warning tape, if

00:20:32.500 --> 00:20:35.339
you will, um, of like, Hey, we shouldn't be saying

00:20:35.339 --> 00:20:38.400
these things anymore. Um, and made it about like

00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:40.059
the censorship and the first amendment rights

00:20:40.059 --> 00:20:41.859
and all of that stuff. So, but nonetheless, what

00:20:41.859 --> 00:20:43.960
we're talking about is like the way that we use

00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:46.839
comedy and talk shows to deliver these like modern

00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:49.500
day topics that are really atrocities, but we

00:20:49.500 --> 00:20:51.640
laugh about them. So I mean, really, you know,

00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:54.420
And I would just interject here one more time,

00:20:54.500 --> 00:20:56.480
coming from the other side, not necessarily the

00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:58.980
Kill Tony crowd, but the Weekend Update crowd,

00:20:59.339 --> 00:21:01.019
right? True, true. People who have, you know,

00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:03.160
on Saturday Night Live have always been on the

00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:05.339
left to some degree. And they're making these

00:21:05.339 --> 00:21:07.859
jokes and these jokes that the two guys, Colin

00:21:07.859 --> 00:21:10.440
Jost and Michael Che, they really like, they

00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:12.819
nail it. Their jokes are excellent. And they're

00:21:12.819 --> 00:21:14.799
on point. And we're all sitting there like, damn.

00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:18.259
But on another level, there's a sense of ha ha

00:21:18.259 --> 00:21:22.539
ha ha ha do something. Yeah. Right. It is. I

00:21:22.539 --> 00:21:27.019
mean, it really is. Um, so. I mean, it's just

00:21:27.019 --> 00:21:29.259
one of the, uh, yeah, I think it's, I think that's

00:21:29.259 --> 00:21:31.740
one of the more frustrating situations, uh, things

00:21:31.740 --> 00:21:34.980
of being a liberal in our country right now is

00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:37.259
that, you know, we do see action being taken,

00:21:37.259 --> 00:21:39.339
but a lot of times like we, it's like, we have

00:21:39.339 --> 00:21:41.920
to laugh to keep crying, I guess. But sometimes

00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:44.599
we're just laughing a lot, you know, cause I

00:21:44.599 --> 00:21:46.380
mean, you know, the other option is just to sit

00:21:46.380 --> 00:21:50.000
in our bedrooms and cry. Um, I mean, honestly.

00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:52.519
So, okay. So back to this whole idea of new speak,

00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:54.900
right? So by controlling language and information,

00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:57.859
people can control our thought processes and

00:21:57.859 --> 00:22:02.140
even define our truths for us without. Without

00:22:02.140 --> 00:22:05.779
the illusion or not the illusion without it seeming

00:22:05.779 --> 00:22:09.230
like they have a bad intent, right? I mean, yeah,

00:22:09.269 --> 00:22:13.029
they, you know, again, the John Stewart is not

00:22:13.029 --> 00:22:15.190
evil intention. Yeah. I think he's a pretty good

00:22:15.190 --> 00:22:18.170
guy. Yeah. Right. Exactly. I mean, and he's,

00:22:18.170 --> 00:22:20.210
you know, doing a job he was hired for and he's

00:22:20.210 --> 00:22:23.009
really good at it, you know, but on the other

00:22:23.009 --> 00:22:25.190
side, I mean, that's kind of disturbing, right?

00:22:25.349 --> 00:22:29.230
I mean, like, yeah, it makes you really wonder

00:22:29.230 --> 00:22:32.609
like how much news, how much has new speak played

00:22:32.609 --> 00:22:34.809
into everything else we've talked about this

00:22:34.809 --> 00:22:39.890
season? Oh, it's been there the whole time. I

00:22:39.890 --> 00:22:42.569
would say that every single one of Echo's 14

00:22:42.569 --> 00:22:46.609
features of Earth fascism in some way employs

00:22:46.609 --> 00:22:51.930
Newspeak. If you think about the last few episodes,

00:22:51.970 --> 00:22:54.670
we have sort of framed all of this authoritarian

00:22:54.670 --> 00:22:56.829
power as a performance, something that needs

00:22:56.829 --> 00:22:59.650
to be choreographed and things like that. If

00:22:59.650 --> 00:23:02.630
you think about it in those terms, Newspeak is

00:23:02.630 --> 00:23:05.750
the script. right these are the words that we're

00:23:05.750 --> 00:23:08.450
going along with in order to build everything

00:23:08.450 --> 00:23:11.069
else up that we're trying to get you know get

00:23:11.069 --> 00:23:14.150
our message across and you can see this again

00:23:14.150 --> 00:23:15.869
going all the way back to the beginning of our

00:23:15.869 --> 00:23:18.769
season talking about cults of tradition but also

00:23:18.769 --> 00:23:22.630
cults of his you know heroic death right calling

00:23:22.630 --> 00:23:26.130
the pseudo historical and mythological language,

00:23:26.809 --> 00:23:30.150
Kash Patel talking about until Valhalla, Pete

00:23:30.150 --> 00:23:33.190
Hegsteth with the Crusader tattoo, just even

00:23:33.190 --> 00:23:35.349
people talking about the the quote unquote, good

00:23:35.349 --> 00:23:38.430
old days, as though the good old days define

00:23:38.430 --> 00:23:42.410
anything specific, and that they define anything

00:23:42.410 --> 00:23:45.390
that encompasses good for all people, which it

00:23:45.390 --> 00:23:48.410
never does. Right, right. I think most people

00:23:48.410 --> 00:23:51.109
now think about the good old days as the, you

00:23:51.109 --> 00:23:53.309
know, greatest generation and their children

00:23:53.309 --> 00:23:55.269
growing up in suburban America. And it's like,

00:23:55.269 --> 00:23:57.490
that's fantastic. If you were middle -class white

00:23:57.490 --> 00:24:01.950
and pretty much nobody else is not the good old

00:24:01.950 --> 00:24:04.349
days. I am so sorry. Like that is not the good,

00:24:04.430 --> 00:24:06.789
like, yeah, the amount of trauma that came out

00:24:06.789 --> 00:24:11.690
of those good old days is why a lot of gen X

00:24:11.690 --> 00:24:14.670
kids don't talk to their parents anymore. And

00:24:14.670 --> 00:24:16.890
that's a whole nother topic. And maybe one that

00:24:16.890 --> 00:24:20.569
we'll cover in a later season, but yeah, that

00:24:20.569 --> 00:24:25.269
generation did so much. I'm not even going to

00:24:25.269 --> 00:24:26.470
get into it. They were giving everything on a

00:24:26.470 --> 00:24:29.329
silver platter. Yeah. Let me think about it.

00:24:29.329 --> 00:24:31.190
They could buy house. I mean, like, you know,

00:24:31.190 --> 00:24:33.069
like they didn't have to go to college. I mean,

00:24:33.069 --> 00:24:36.369
like they break, they literally had their future

00:24:36.369 --> 00:24:38.829
handed to them on a silver platter. And then

00:24:38.829 --> 00:24:41.950
they took that platter, turned it over and then

00:24:41.950 --> 00:24:43.710
shit on it so that we couldn't use it again.

00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:47.920
And in so doing, all the progress that they made,

00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:50.920
they rejected for everybody else. They completely

00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:53.839
rejected any notions of modern progress, any

00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:57.319
notions of modern diversity. They oversimplified

00:24:57.319 --> 00:25:01.900
and suspected any kind of complexity, any kind

00:25:01.900 --> 00:25:05.000
of nuance dealing with things ranging all the

00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:08.059
way from immigration to crime to everything else.

00:25:10.099 --> 00:25:14.480
And liberals... people who are attuned to wanting

00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.759
to make life better for human beings, in general,

00:25:17.900 --> 00:25:20.180
not just Americans, but sort of in general, you

00:25:20.180 --> 00:25:22.980
know, they call liberals things like bleeding

00:25:22.980 --> 00:25:27.079
hearts. Referring, referring, by the way, to

00:25:27.079 --> 00:25:29.500
the literal bleeding heart of Jesus Christ, of

00:25:29.500 --> 00:25:33.730
whom they are so enamored. the idea that this

00:25:33.730 --> 00:25:36.750
is overflowing with emotion for humans. They

00:25:36.750 --> 00:25:40.549
call liberals commies. Most of them can't define

00:25:40.549 --> 00:25:43.269
what communism is, but liberals and Democrats

00:25:43.269 --> 00:25:46.650
must be commies. Sometimes they go so far as

00:25:46.650 --> 00:25:51.250
to say that progress is for people that are enemies,

00:25:51.549 --> 00:25:57.660
poisoning the blood of our people. Yeah, and

00:25:57.660 --> 00:25:59.839
then we've also talked about the contempt for

00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:03.660
pacifists and dissenters and the weak and how

00:26:03.660 --> 00:26:06.579
there's a linguistic and national Nationalistic

00:26:06.579 --> 00:26:10.240
purity in our language that leaves others quote

00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:12.519
unquote others outside the fold so we talk about

00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:16.000
patriots and we talk about American exceptionalism

00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:20.759
Yeah, I have to question you know, and I'm not

00:26:20.759 --> 00:26:22.480
saying America is not a great place I think there

00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:24.200
are things about America that are absolutely

00:26:24.200 --> 00:26:27.849
fantastic, but What about the United States makes

00:26:27.849 --> 00:26:32.089
us somehow different or more important or whatever

00:26:32.089 --> 00:26:35.670
than every other nation on the face of her in

00:26:35.670 --> 00:26:37.089
the history of the planet? I mean, that's just

00:26:37.089 --> 00:26:40.190
a, that's a really bold statement and it frees

00:26:40.190 --> 00:26:42.990
us from any responsibility to improve who we

00:26:42.990 --> 00:26:46.210
are. It does, right? You know, and I mean, we've

00:26:46.210 --> 00:26:50.799
held that, that thought in our heads. You know

00:26:50.799 --> 00:26:53.140
about this country for, for so long, you know,

00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:55.579
and I think that there's a reason for that. I

00:26:55.579 --> 00:26:56.839
mean, we've, this country's done a lot of great

00:26:56.839 --> 00:26:59.400
things, but it's also done a lot of like really

00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:03.000
unspeakable things. And, you know, sadly, I think

00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:06.960
that we're, I mean, not think, I mean, we are

00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:10.079
going to have a reckoning, a time of reckoning

00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:13.660
in this country because this whole cult of MAGA,

00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:15.680
I mean, I believe that we're starting to see

00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:18.519
it's dying days where I think we're starting

00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:20.400
to see the beginning of its dying days. I mean,

00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:23.619
we've been seeing the cracks, you know, uh, on

00:27:23.619 --> 00:27:25.759
the surface for a while, but I think we're beginning

00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:28.220
to see the dot. But I mean, there's that, that

00:27:28.220 --> 00:27:30.940
doesn't mean, okay, here's, here's something

00:27:30.940 --> 00:27:34.819
to think about, you know, over in, uh, I don't

00:27:34.819 --> 00:27:36.359
want to stereotype, but I mean, I'm just going

00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:37.799
to say the middle East because if that's, you

00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:39.700
know, we talk about that, but you know, it seems

00:27:39.700 --> 00:27:44.559
like every 10 years or so we've had a new terrorist

00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:47.400
regime that we've had to, uh, you know, first

00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:49.619
it was Al Qaeda. Then it was ISIS, you know,

00:27:49.819 --> 00:27:53.640
that we've had to fight against, or, you know,

00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:56.940
we'll be worried about. And I mean, really, if

00:27:56.940 --> 00:27:59.599
you think about it, it's no different here with

00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:02.250
the Maga cults. I mean, they were just the underground

00:28:02.250 --> 00:28:05.369
racist. They were the people in the KKK. You

00:28:05.369 --> 00:28:07.430
know, I'm not saying all of them, but I guarantee

00:28:07.430 --> 00:28:11.009
a large majority were, you know, um, and now

00:28:11.009 --> 00:28:13.190
they've had is now this is a new group that is

00:28:13.190 --> 00:28:16.250
threatening, you know, uh, our country. And it,

00:28:16.309 --> 00:28:18.170
when this one dies, it'll be another group. I

00:28:18.170 --> 00:28:20.190
mean, you know, we we've seen it over and over

00:28:20.190 --> 00:28:24.230
and over again. Um, and I think it's really important

00:28:24.230 --> 00:28:29.039
that as we See one die off and another build

00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:32.299
up, be really mindful and pay a lot of attention

00:28:32.299 --> 00:28:35.660
to the words that they use. You know, this whole

00:28:35.660 --> 00:28:37.839
MAGA make, make America greater grand sounds

00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:40.960
great on the surface. But when you really drill

00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:42.880
down to it, these people are saying, let's take

00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:47.400
us back to a time when a lot of people, a lot

00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:51.539
of demographics had no rights in this country.

00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:55.579
It was really just the time of white men. And

00:28:55.579 --> 00:28:58.200
I mean, that's not what this country was built

00:28:58.200 --> 00:29:04.039
on or what was built for. Well, and there are

00:29:04.039 --> 00:29:05.660
people who will say, you know, come back with

00:29:05.660 --> 00:29:09.079
all kinds of arguments to that, but we have to

00:29:09.079 --> 00:29:10.740
look at things that were written down at the

00:29:10.740 --> 00:29:13.279
beginning that promise equality and that promise

00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:16.839
the right, you know, and so to infringe on anybody's

00:29:16.839 --> 00:29:18.920
rights goes against the founding principles that

00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:21.480
some of these people seem to be so stalwartly

00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:25.059
in. in defense of to the expense of everybody

00:29:25.059 --> 00:29:27.279
who doesn't look like them right right and the

00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:30.359
words that they speak they can tell a lot of

00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:34.200
tales even though they're not speaking in full

00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:37.000
phrases in some cases that give us the complex

00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:39.720
information that we need now new speak in the

00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:43.480
words that you know as imagined by Orwell is

00:29:43.480 --> 00:29:46.859
a relatively modern linguistic invention it has

00:29:46.859 --> 00:29:51.019
some historical precedent But the way echo frames

00:29:51.019 --> 00:29:54.400
it as more of a control of informational rhetoric,

00:29:54.900 --> 00:29:57.079
that kind of broadens the perspective. And we

00:29:57.079 --> 00:29:59.900
can find plenty of congruent practices in the

00:29:59.900 --> 00:30:02.740
past that use language, whether it was textual

00:30:02.740 --> 00:30:05.819
or visual or whatever, to limit free thought

00:30:05.819 --> 00:30:08.680
and expression. And so let's dive a little bit

00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:11.319
into the history here and keep this a history

00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:13.740
podcast to at least some extent, because current

00:30:13.740 --> 00:30:16.259
events, they're tough to keep up with sometimes.

00:30:16.339 --> 00:30:20.269
Yes, they are. To start off with, man, let's

00:30:20.269 --> 00:30:25.609
go to, yeah, you guessed it, Rome. The Romans

00:30:25.609 --> 00:30:30.210
had a practice that 17th century scholars would

00:30:30.210 --> 00:30:34.609
later refer to as damnatio memoriae, which translates

00:30:34.609 --> 00:30:40.799
to, in Latin, condemnation of memory. What we're

00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:44.240
talking about here is formal condemnation, state

00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:48.099
condemnation of an individual by removing that

00:30:48.099 --> 00:30:51.680
person's name, by removing that person's likeness

00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:55.140
from public. Usually removing that person's likeness

00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:57.519
means cutting the head off of their statue if

00:30:57.519 --> 00:30:59.940
they have a statue or rubbing it out of any kind

00:30:59.940 --> 00:31:03.740
of artistic expression. Doing all this from any

00:31:03.740 --> 00:31:06.180
kind of public record, any kind of public monument

00:31:06.180 --> 00:31:08.640
so that they can control the memory narrative

00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:13.089
itself. limiting the public's ability to think

00:31:13.089 --> 00:31:16.470
critically about dissent or failure, right? All

00:31:16.470 --> 00:31:19.970
we know is if we mess up, if we make the Roman

00:31:19.970 --> 00:31:23.650
authorities angry, and we have any kind of reputation,

00:31:23.750 --> 00:31:25.529
they're gonna smear our reputation, which for

00:31:25.529 --> 00:31:29.079
the Romans was, you know, serious stuff. Clung

00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:31.640
to their reputation, even into the afterlife,

00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:33.460
right? That was what was going to make them immortal,

00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:35.319
kind of in the same way that we think about it

00:31:35.319 --> 00:31:36.980
today. But this almost seems like it's going

00:31:36.980 --> 00:31:40.180
a step further than smearing someone's reputation.

00:31:40.259 --> 00:31:42.099
Like you're literally like, you're almost, well,

00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:43.880
I mean, in this day and age in the Roman date,

00:31:43.900 --> 00:31:46.559
you're killing them. I mean, you're killing because

00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:48.299
I mean, like you're not physically right. I mean,

00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:49.819
yeah, they can still live their lives and all,

00:31:49.819 --> 00:31:52.480
but I mean, like. by wiping their, like by wiping

00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:54.839
their quote unquote memory or wiping them from

00:31:54.839 --> 00:31:56.619
the memory, you know, cutting off the heads of

00:31:56.619 --> 00:31:58.880
statues or wiping them away from the public record.

00:31:59.220 --> 00:32:01.819
I mean, there now is no record of that person.

00:32:01.940 --> 00:32:04.799
There is no history to tell, you know, that person

00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:08.880
almost in that, in that society does not exist

00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:12.460
anymore. I mean, it's like, it's like, it's like

00:32:12.460 --> 00:32:14.380
the idea of like the ominous and the shunning,

00:32:14.539 --> 00:32:17.160
you know, like if someone goes too far, but I

00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:19.960
mean, but like, but this goes a step further.

00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:22.279
I mean, because this is like, we're not going

00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:24.140
to talk to you and we're going to wipe every

00:32:24.140 --> 00:32:26.819
like instance of you like as if you never existed.

00:32:27.980 --> 00:32:30.559
Right. And usually, again, this accompanies some

00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:33.440
kind of some kind of disagreement or failure

00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:37.220
of the state or failure against the state, I

00:32:37.220 --> 00:32:41.640
should say. And so. You're absolutely right.

00:32:41.740 --> 00:32:44.339
Some people have been removed from existence

00:32:44.339 --> 00:32:46.400
because we can't remember who they were, because

00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:49.599
there's nothing that tells us their entire existence

00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:53.079
has been wiped. The ancient Egyptians actually

00:32:53.079 --> 00:32:54.980
used to do some of this too, but the Romans took

00:32:54.980 --> 00:32:57.720
it to, again, sort of another level, as they

00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:00.839
often do. The Romans that hold my beer. Yeah,

00:33:00.859 --> 00:33:05.859
pretty much. The Chinese, the ancient Chinese,

00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:10.039
get into some of this stuff too. Emperor Qin

00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:13.740
Shi Huang was an adherent of legalist philosophy,

00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:16.759
and I'm not going to pretend to really understand

00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:19.880
Eastern philosophies, especially legalism. I'm

00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:23.839
not wholly versed on it, but he was a legalist

00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:26.740
scholar, and the legalists were anti -Confucianists.

00:33:27.259 --> 00:33:31.839
The Confucianists had a world and living philosophy

00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:35.670
that just wasn't... that much interested in systems

00:33:35.670 --> 00:33:39.049
of power, which would have benefited the emperor,

00:33:39.269 --> 00:33:41.430
right? Legalism was much more in favor of systems

00:33:41.430 --> 00:33:46.049
of power. And so Qin Shi Huang, a legalist, orders

00:33:46.049 --> 00:33:50.390
any Confucian texts within his kingdom to be

00:33:50.390 --> 00:33:53.369
burned. Sounds kind of familiar, right? Burning,

00:33:53.470 --> 00:33:57.609
banning books all the way back. He also ordered

00:33:57.609 --> 00:34:00.430
that scholars and practitioners of Confucianism

00:34:00.430 --> 00:34:05.970
be buried alive. Wow. which is extreme to say

00:34:05.970 --> 00:34:09.489
the least, right? And aside from the physical

00:34:09.489 --> 00:34:12.510
violence and the image of burning books, which

00:34:12.510 --> 00:34:16.329
is certainly powerful symbology, what we get

00:34:16.329 --> 00:34:19.769
going on here is intellectual diversity being

00:34:19.769 --> 00:34:24.989
suppressed by force. Allowing Qin Shi Huang and

00:34:24.989 --> 00:34:29.550
his dynasty and the authorities in general to

00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:33.300
really control the historical interpretation

00:34:33.300 --> 00:34:36.000
of their reign, which is exactly what they want.

00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:38.960
They get to decide who looks good. There's going

00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:41.079
to be no pushback. The Confucianists don't get

00:34:41.079 --> 00:34:44.320
to say, hey, look, this legalist emperor is not

00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:47.679
such a great guy, right? And that's about the

00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:50.019
limit I know about Qin Shi Huang. I don't know

00:34:50.019 --> 00:34:54.079
how good or bad of an emperor he was, but having

00:34:54.079 --> 00:34:57.219
opposing scholars and practitioners buried alive

00:34:57.219 --> 00:35:00.650
seems Seems a little on the wrong side to me

00:35:00.650 --> 00:35:05.269
personally. Yeah, I would say so. I mean, it's,

00:35:05.389 --> 00:35:08.349
well, I mean, honestly, you know, I mean, it's,

00:35:08.349 --> 00:35:10.090
it's history, but you know, part of what we try

00:35:10.090 --> 00:35:13.309
to do is relate this to modern day, uh, you know,

00:35:13.409 --> 00:35:15.690
instances, you know, to help make those parallels.

00:35:16.690 --> 00:35:20.829
But it almost, it's, it seems very familiar to

00:35:20.829 --> 00:35:23.789
the situation with Jamal Khashoggi. I believe

00:35:23.789 --> 00:35:26.269
it is the journalist that was, uh, reporting

00:35:26.269 --> 00:35:32.519
against the, um, the prince in Saudi Arabia because

00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:34.480
you know from what I'm hearing you say I mean

00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:41.519
these confusions were capturing information about

00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:44.599
the emperor in China at the time that was not

00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:47.179
favorable it was exposing essentially like some

00:35:47.179 --> 00:35:49.900
of the corruption maybe that was going on or

00:35:49.900 --> 00:35:54.750
whatnot and well and it was it was distorting

00:35:54.750 --> 00:35:57.070
the minds of the Chinese people in the eyes of

00:35:57.070 --> 00:35:59.630
the legalist. It was inviting, and again, I don't

00:35:59.630 --> 00:36:02.190
know much about Confucianism, but it was inviting

00:36:02.190 --> 00:36:05.449
practitioners of Confucianism to live a life

00:36:05.449 --> 00:36:08.030
that was meaningful to them as opposed to meaningful

00:36:08.030 --> 00:36:12.010
to the hierarchy that the system. It was, it

00:36:12.010 --> 00:36:15.210
was, and essentially it was, it was an oppositional

00:36:15.210 --> 00:36:17.969
way of thinking, not oppositional way of thinking.

00:36:18.050 --> 00:36:20.760
I mean, in a sense of like, you know, Uh, but

00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:23.360
it was just an opposite, maybe is a better word

00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:25.699
way of thinking, you know, uh, almost a polar

00:36:25.699 --> 00:36:28.380
opposite, if you will. Um, because it sounds

00:36:28.380 --> 00:36:30.380
like, you know, these are two groups, one that,

00:36:30.380 --> 00:36:33.039
you know, once structure and one that maybe lives

00:36:33.039 --> 00:36:35.920
a little bit less, a little bit with a little

00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:39.780
bit more freedom and, you know, and personal

00:36:39.780 --> 00:36:43.179
accountability and responsibility. Well, I can

00:36:43.179 --> 00:36:47.679
see why he buried and killed them all. Right.

00:36:48.760 --> 00:36:52.210
Um, If you think about the colonial period, American

00:36:52.210 --> 00:36:55.530
colonialism as well as African Asian colonialism,

00:36:55.670 --> 00:36:58.489
what have you, language policies tend to follow

00:36:58.489 --> 00:37:03.210
colonial policies wherever we go. Language policies

00:37:03.210 --> 00:37:06.889
are going to impose on indigenous populations.

00:37:08.180 --> 00:37:12.400
imperial and religious terminology which the

00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:14.280
indigenous populations are not familiar with

00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:15.940
they're not familiar with either one of these

00:37:15.940 --> 00:37:17.940
terminologies because this is all brand new to

00:37:17.940 --> 00:37:20.920
them for the very first time so these populations

00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:24.900
unfamiliar with either one meanwhile their own

00:37:24.900 --> 00:37:27.599
indigenous language is being criminalized and

00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:30.940
outlawed by the colonial oh yes right big time

00:37:30.940 --> 00:37:34.920
so big time yeah I mean how much distortion um

00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:38.780
think of how much of local belief and and cultural

00:37:38.780 --> 00:37:43.059
identity is distorted or replaced or reshaped

00:37:43.059 --> 00:37:48.139
so that historical memory is rewritten yeah i

00:37:48.139 --> 00:37:49.780
was about to say a patchwork but i'm not even

00:37:49.780 --> 00:37:52.940
sure a patchwork covers it most indigenous peoples

00:37:52.940 --> 00:37:56.320
are finding it difficult to to reconnect with

00:37:56.320 --> 00:37:59.699
their cultures their histories oh yeah i mean

00:37:59.699 --> 00:38:03.059
colonial language Well, of course. Yeah, absolutely.

00:38:03.260 --> 00:38:04.800
I mean, I think that the one that sticks out

00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:09.460
to me, the absolute most is how colonialists

00:38:09.460 --> 00:38:15.000
refer to indigenous people as savages. Um, and

00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:16.980
you find that every, you know, it's very obvious

00:38:16.980 --> 00:38:18.920
and famous here in America, but that everywhere,

00:38:19.159 --> 00:38:20.760
everywhere there's indigenous people that are

00:38:20.760 --> 00:38:22.659
imposed upon by colonialists. Well, we talked

00:38:22.659 --> 00:38:25.199
about like the Greek and the Romans Romans referred

00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:27.579
to the Greek, not Greeks, Bob, the Germans, sorry,

00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:29.980
Germans, but you know, the Romans referring to

00:38:29.980 --> 00:38:33.619
the Germans as savages because they lived a different

00:38:33.619 --> 00:38:36.800
life, you know, where Romans lived a more structured.

00:38:37.369 --> 00:38:40.429
homes, probably infrastructure, roads, all of

00:38:40.429 --> 00:38:43.550
that, you know, a belief system that was structured

00:38:43.550 --> 00:38:47.230
versus the Germans who were Vikings essentially,

00:38:47.230 --> 00:38:49.489
you know, I mean, not necessarily, but living

00:38:49.489 --> 00:38:53.230
that very like nomadic in a way, lifestyle, uh,

00:38:53.289 --> 00:38:56.269
living off land. They had a series of gods, you

00:38:56.269 --> 00:38:58.889
know, it very different, but I mean, we see the

00:38:58.889 --> 00:39:01.500
same thing. I mean, again, The parallel is uncanny

00:39:01.500 --> 00:39:03.559
because we have colonials seeing the same exact

00:39:03.559 --> 00:39:05.739
thing and the, they refer to them as savages.

00:39:05.980 --> 00:39:08.280
They take away all our humanity with that one

00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:11.119
single word. And you know, one of the things

00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:13.340
that, you know, with news speak that, you know,

00:39:13.460 --> 00:39:15.019
and, and I'm sure we'll get into this a little

00:39:15.019 --> 00:39:16.440
bit, but you know, one thing I've noticed with

00:39:16.440 --> 00:39:21.239
new speak is that it allows us to whitewash the

00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:26.539
atrocities that we put onto other. To other people's,

00:39:26.539 --> 00:39:29.119
you know, and by calling people indigenous people

00:39:29.119 --> 00:39:33.420
savages, you know, we can justify mowing down

00:39:33.420 --> 00:39:37.059
a whole tribe, you know, or, and saying it's

00:39:37.059 --> 00:39:39.320
a battle and saying it's a war. And this is all

00:39:39.320 --> 00:39:41.219
happened in American history when it's really

00:39:41.219 --> 00:39:44.179
you're killing women and children and elderly

00:39:44.179 --> 00:39:46.539
people that are simply running away from you

00:39:46.539 --> 00:39:48.679
because all the warriors have gone out ahead.

00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:52.039
You know, and you're calling it savage and you're

00:39:52.039 --> 00:39:53.980
calling them a battle and you can justify that

00:39:53.980 --> 00:39:55.900
because you've called them savages women and

00:39:55.900 --> 00:39:57.800
children and elderly people that would stand

00:39:57.800 --> 00:40:02.219
no chance of fighting Completely massacred and

00:40:02.219 --> 00:40:06.139
then they call it a battle No, call them a savage

00:40:06.139 --> 00:40:09.300
dehumanize them exactly anything that happens

00:40:09.300 --> 00:40:12.639
afterwards and hundreds of years later make a

00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:16.449
tacit you know, terse apology and right go on

00:40:16.449 --> 00:40:20.670
with it, right? Right. Exactly. Speaking of whitewashing

00:40:20.670 --> 00:40:24.050
and covering up for atrocity with language. This

00:40:24.050 --> 00:40:26.070
becomes a tradition in the antebellum southern

00:40:26.070 --> 00:40:30.469
United States. Oh, yes, in the south before the

00:40:30.469 --> 00:40:35.159
Civil War. It was not polite, despite slavery

00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:38.880
being the economic engine that ran that portion

00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:41.940
of the country, and let's be honest, really fueled

00:40:41.940 --> 00:40:43.860
much of the rest of the country through industry

00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:47.199
and stuff as well. It was not polite to mention

00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:51.900
slavery or make references to the slaves. Even

00:40:51.900 --> 00:40:55.920
as people begin to defend slavery less as a necessary

00:40:55.920 --> 00:41:00.119
evil and more as a positive good, the word slavery

00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:06.690
and slave were considered rude or dirty or Not

00:41:06.690 --> 00:41:09.269
something to bring up in polite company this

00:41:09.269 --> 00:41:11.889
sort of follows the same principle that a lot

00:41:11.889 --> 00:41:14.650
of the kitchens in Colonial plantation houses

00:41:14.650 --> 00:41:17.329
were outside and the enslaved women who did the

00:41:17.329 --> 00:41:18.989
cooking had to come in through a back entrance

00:41:18.989 --> 00:41:22.530
So nobody ever had to actually look at the enslaved,

00:41:22.550 --> 00:41:25.769
right? We don't talk about the enslaved. We don't

00:41:25.769 --> 00:41:28.250
draw attention to the enslaved because it's not

00:41:28.250 --> 00:41:32.409
cool. So we come up with euphemisms such as the

00:41:32.409 --> 00:41:35.369
peculiar institution. And I put on my best Georgia

00:41:35.369 --> 00:41:39.650
accent for that. Not very good, but the peculiar

00:41:39.650 --> 00:41:44.869
institution, our peculiar institution, implicating

00:41:44.869 --> 00:41:47.469
that this is just who we are down here in the

00:41:47.469 --> 00:41:49.210
South. Don't you worry your little head too much

00:41:49.210 --> 00:41:52.960
about it, sweetie. This is just... what southern

00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:58.079
life is all about. By that same token, the N

00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:00.559
-word, and you know which one I'm talking about,

00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:06.199
has the same history. When the Spanish first

00:42:06.199 --> 00:42:09.099
encountered enslaved African Americans by way

00:42:09.099 --> 00:42:11.340
of the Portuguese, they referred to them with

00:42:11.340 --> 00:42:15.920
the Spanish word for black, negro, which naturally,

00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:20.139
through linguistic and dialectical progression,

00:42:20.849 --> 00:42:23.730
became the N word with the hard R in Southern

00:42:23.730 --> 00:42:26.530
dialect. And that was a word they used instead

00:42:26.530 --> 00:42:30.949
of saying slave. So my friends, if you are one

00:42:30.949 --> 00:42:34.590
of us white boys who like hip hop, there's a

00:42:34.590 --> 00:42:37.030
reason you don't get to just say every word of

00:42:37.030 --> 00:42:39.090
the lyrics. You got to know some of these things.

00:42:39.710 --> 00:42:41.349
Yeah, I'll be honest with you, man. I did not

00:42:41.349 --> 00:42:44.210
know that. I knew that that word has always had

00:42:44.210 --> 00:42:51.829
a lot of weight behind it. But, but knowing that

00:42:51.829 --> 00:42:55.610
man, I don't want anybody calling me a slave,

00:42:56.170 --> 00:43:00.269
you know? Well, it just, you, people who use

00:43:00.269 --> 00:43:07.710
that word now in this day and age, like I just,

00:43:08.030 --> 00:43:11.230
I, I don't have the words for them. I really

00:43:11.230 --> 00:43:14.769
don't. Yeah. Um, yeah, I have like, no, I have

00:43:14.769 --> 00:43:16.969
heard the understanding the weight of that. I

00:43:16.969 --> 00:43:19.690
mean, even before, even before that association,

00:43:19.849 --> 00:43:21.590
man, but understanding the weight of that word

00:43:21.590 --> 00:43:24.349
in this day and age, you know, people who choose

00:43:24.349 --> 00:43:29.050
to use it. I mean, they have, there's a special

00:43:29.050 --> 00:43:31.969
place for them, but knowing now that it's, I

00:43:31.969 --> 00:43:36.170
mean, tied 100 % to slavery. One of the worst

00:43:36.170 --> 00:43:39.550
things that are, I mean, you know, yes, it's

00:43:39.550 --> 00:43:41.949
one of the worst things our country has, uh,

00:43:41.989 --> 00:43:46.670
engaged in, you know, um, along with taking the

00:43:46.670 --> 00:43:48.949
land from indigenous peoples, you know, and,

00:43:49.130 --> 00:43:53.230
and that too, I mean, like we owe a lot to black

00:43:53.230 --> 00:43:56.670
and brown people. Um, because if it were not

00:43:56.670 --> 00:43:58.869
for them, this country would have never been

00:43:58.869 --> 00:44:02.010
built because if it was like, if it was like,

00:44:01.980 --> 00:44:05.019
up to the pasty white boys that this shit would

00:44:05.019 --> 00:44:08.260
have never happened, man. And but listen, like

00:44:08.260 --> 00:44:10.579
those pasty white boys, even though they got

00:44:10.579 --> 00:44:12.760
to write all the founding documents, they knew

00:44:12.760 --> 00:44:16.360
on some level they knew the Constitution, which

00:44:16.360 --> 00:44:19.559
was written in 1789 when slavery was still legal

00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:21.840
in the United States. Right. The Constitution

00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:25.000
goes to great lengths to avoid the word slavery

00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:28.300
and slave, even though it has clauses dealing

00:44:28.300 --> 00:44:31.639
specifically with those populations. Right. If

00:44:31.639 --> 00:44:33.480
you think about the Three -Fifths Compromise,

00:44:33.519 --> 00:44:35.760
the Three -Fifths Clause, it doesn't mention

00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:39.800
slave or slavery in those contexts at all. It

00:44:39.800 --> 00:44:41.980
doesn't talk about slavery in the Constitution.

00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:44.900
People knew that talking about it was... So I

00:44:44.900 --> 00:44:48.590
mean, on some level, they know it's wrong. Yeah,

00:44:48.590 --> 00:44:51.070
but they don't want to admit that to themselves.

00:44:51.070 --> 00:44:53.590
They don't want to admit that to external observers.

00:44:54.250 --> 00:44:56.210
The United States at that time is trying to build

00:44:56.210 --> 00:44:59.030
itself into a world power. It wants the respect

00:44:59.030 --> 00:45:01.170
and the camaraderie from other Western nations,

00:45:01.170 --> 00:45:04.630
especially. And most of those places by the 1840s

00:45:04.630 --> 00:45:07.369
and fifties have given up slavery. So we're the

00:45:07.369 --> 00:45:09.769
only ones left. And we want to try and obscure

00:45:09.769 --> 00:45:12.469
this dirty secret that we still have over here

00:45:12.469 --> 00:45:14.469
in the US. Well, I mean, leave it up to even

00:45:14.469 --> 00:45:16.130
leave it up to the South to be able to pull that

00:45:16.130 --> 00:45:18.519
shit off. Well, let's be honest. with you because

00:45:18.519 --> 00:45:20.679
like, you know, polite society and all, I mean,

00:45:21.719 --> 00:45:23.739
like, we, we are, we are good for that. I'll

00:45:23.739 --> 00:45:25.360
tell you, we are good for the bless your hearts

00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:28.639
and all of that shit, man, because. Oh yeah.

00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:31.179
So bless your hearts and the, the, you know,

00:45:31.179 --> 00:45:33.000
um, if you think about the, and this goes, you

00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:35.159
know, right on after slavery to in the days of

00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:38.380
Jim Crow, similar language, you know, continued

00:45:38.380 --> 00:45:41.420
to cast African Americans as anything other than

00:45:41.420 --> 00:45:46.400
human beings. I mean, let's be honest. But if

00:45:46.400 --> 00:45:48.679
you think about even. boy. Right. People call

00:45:48.679 --> 00:45:52.159
you a grown black man boy. I mean, what? Excuse

00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:54.360
me. I'm as old as you are older. How dare you

00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:56.940
call me a boy? Yeah. And it didn't stop with

00:45:56.940 --> 00:45:59.539
civil rights in the 60s and 70s, man, because

00:45:59.539 --> 00:46:02.820
Ronald Reagan very publicly talked about welfare

00:46:02.820 --> 00:46:06.599
queens and strapping young bucks when everybody

00:46:06.599 --> 00:46:08.460
knew he was talking about impoverished black

00:46:08.460 --> 00:46:10.159
people. Oh, yeah. He single handedly ushered

00:46:10.159 --> 00:46:13.780
in the propaganda that completely demonized certain

00:46:13.780 --> 00:46:17.449
demographics that use uh, government assistance

00:46:17.449 --> 00:46:21.230
while the statistics have shown time and time

00:46:21.230 --> 00:46:25.889
again that the diversity of who is on those services.

00:46:26.650 --> 00:46:29.150
Um, yeah, there's a lot of white folks up there

00:46:29.150 --> 00:46:34.409
too. Y 'all. Mm -hmm. A lot. Uh, look at Appalachia.

00:46:34.630 --> 00:46:37.550
It's, um, yeah, poverty like you wouldn't believe

00:46:37.550 --> 00:46:41.030
and they, they are there on those services. Yeah.

00:46:41.030 --> 00:46:45.519
Yeah, exactly. You know, so I mean, Yeah. It's

00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:50.420
unfortunate that that is one of the things in

00:46:50.420 --> 00:46:55.820
our country that has been so unfortunately skewed.

00:46:56.900 --> 00:46:59.920
The view of it, you know, because of people like

00:46:59.920 --> 00:47:02.699
Ronald Reagan coming out and saying what he said,

00:47:02.820 --> 00:47:06.460
because he cast a stigma on that program that

00:47:06.460 --> 00:47:10.519
is designed to help people, you know? And I mean,

00:47:10.519 --> 00:47:16.539
I think unembarrassingly, Yep, that both of us,

00:47:16.639 --> 00:47:19.800
Jimmy and myself can say that we've had at different

00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:22.079
times in our life have had to accept that those

00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:26.260
that help, you know, and I mean, and it's a stigma.

00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:28.300
Like you said, it's embarrassing to have to go

00:47:28.300 --> 00:47:30.960
do that and is largely because of the language

00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:33.679
that is used to describe it. Exactly. You know,

00:47:33.900 --> 00:47:36.900
um, And I think the thing, you know, as we, we

00:47:36.900 --> 00:47:39.480
kind of look back throughout history, you know,

00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:41.500
up to say like the civil rights and, you know,

00:47:41.500 --> 00:47:44.519
the Ronald Reagan era, I mean, you know, a lot

00:47:44.519 --> 00:47:48.300
of the thing, like the, the, being able to perpetuate

00:47:48.300 --> 00:47:52.059
the language, right. Um, you know, the new speak

00:47:52.059 --> 00:47:54.559
going back, you know, to the Romans. And then

00:47:54.559 --> 00:47:57.840
of course, you know, you know, up till now, I

00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:00.880
mean, all of those examples come from a time

00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:05.500
without the benefit of our modern day. distribution

00:48:05.500 --> 00:48:10.360
channels like radio, television, social media,

00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:14.500
even then newsprint, like actual newsprint, not

00:48:14.500 --> 00:48:18.539
newspeak, but newspaper. I mean, you could possibly

00:48:18.539 --> 00:48:21.619
get it in, in there if they existed, but that

00:48:21.619 --> 00:48:23.340
doesn't mean that the general population will

00:48:23.340 --> 00:48:25.480
be getting that information. You know, those

00:48:25.480 --> 00:48:30.559
were forced for the, the, you know, uh, the high

00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:33.340
end, the wealthy, the intelligent, you know,

00:48:33.340 --> 00:48:36.079
the upper class, the one percenters of every

00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:38.400
civilization that we've talked about so far,

00:48:38.739 --> 00:48:43.019
you know, so posing a question here, what happens

00:48:43.019 --> 00:48:47.420
with a modern regime that has access to multiple

00:48:47.420 --> 00:48:50.679
technologies? What happens when they take this

00:48:50.679 --> 00:48:53.280
kind of linguistic and thought control to a more

00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:57.119
routine level that reaches and exploits millions

00:48:57.119 --> 00:49:02.670
all at one time? That's where we get to by the

00:49:02.670 --> 00:49:06.829
20th century Fascist regimes are gonna find a

00:49:06.829 --> 00:49:09.510
lot of traction of course across Europe in the

00:49:09.510 --> 00:49:13.769
20th century in places where there had recently

00:49:13.769 --> 00:49:17.170
been communist uprisings and so there's that

00:49:17.170 --> 00:49:20.070
kind of conflict and fear going around but also

00:49:20.070 --> 00:49:25.829
fascism finds a way to make use of broadcast

00:49:25.829 --> 00:49:30.320
media and wide publicity, right? And these guys

00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:33.360
have little interest in being subtle. They're

00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:35.940
going to propagandize everything. So they're

00:49:35.940 --> 00:49:38.500
going to go right to the extreme, changing the

00:49:38.500 --> 00:49:42.780
actual language itself, making words and phrases

00:49:42.780 --> 00:49:45.440
that obscure the truth of what is happening.

00:49:45.599 --> 00:49:47.920
So let me, let me just go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah.

00:49:48.519 --> 00:49:50.500
I was going to say like, I was going to say,

00:49:50.820 --> 00:49:53.179
you're going to say, but I'm going to say this

00:49:53.179 --> 00:49:57.070
though. So like, okay. When, as you're, as you're,

00:49:57.170 --> 00:49:58.309
as we talked about this, as we're talking about

00:49:58.309 --> 00:50:00.769
this, you know, the whole, the whole episode,

00:50:00.969 --> 00:50:04.590
I mean, it's hard for me not to call, call this

00:50:04.590 --> 00:50:07.550
propaganda, but I mean, like it's not right.

00:50:07.690 --> 00:50:10.949
I mean, I know that it is part of it. It's a,

00:50:10.949 --> 00:50:13.670
it's a component of the propaganda, but propaganda

00:50:13.670 --> 00:50:16.750
is like a mechanism. Like it's the whole thing.

00:50:16.769 --> 00:50:18.670
It's how we deliver it. Right. But like news

00:50:18.670 --> 00:50:23.360
speak is how we manipulate the idea. Well, and

00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:25.659
and we included in the propaganda and the propaganda

00:50:25.659 --> 00:50:28.860
is one way that we get it out there through broadcast

00:50:28.860 --> 00:50:30.679
through print through whatever it happens to

00:50:30.679 --> 00:50:34.099
be but there's also again the changing of words

00:50:34.099 --> 00:50:37.599
and phrases so that We're taking away some of

00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:39.780
the truth so that there's less information to

00:50:39.780 --> 00:50:44.000
critically think about gotcha I'm not necessarily

00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:46.559
talking about censorship censorship is something

00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:49.960
they absolutely rely on Plenty of plenty of censorship

00:50:49.960 --> 00:50:53.119
and fascist regime. Yeah But they also build

00:50:53.119 --> 00:50:56.880
a linguistic tradition that distorted everyday

00:50:56.880 --> 00:50:59.400
speech, right? Things that we, just talking to

00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:02.780
each other in casual conversation that made obedience

00:51:02.780 --> 00:51:08.380
sound honorable and violence sound just. And

00:51:08.380 --> 00:51:12.050
they made, they literally made any kind of dissent,

00:51:12.170 --> 00:51:14.329
any kind of disagreement, not only dangerous,

00:51:14.449 --> 00:51:16.469
they made it unthinkable. You literally couldn't

00:51:16.469 --> 00:51:19.190
think about how to disagree with what they were

00:51:19.190 --> 00:51:22.750
saying, right? So think about the unambiguity

00:51:22.750 --> 00:51:25.329
of the titles they give to fascist leaders, right?

00:51:25.670 --> 00:51:28.909
Il Duce is what Mussolini becomes known as, the

00:51:28.909 --> 00:51:31.750
leader. Same thing with Hitler, Der Fuhrer, the

00:51:31.750 --> 00:51:36.190
leader. Not a leader, not, you know, unequivocally,

00:51:36.309 --> 00:51:40.619
unambiguously, the leader. Yeah. Franco was known

00:51:40.619 --> 00:51:43.599
as El Cardio, same thing, the leader, or in some

00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:46.639
cases, especially by the military, Generalissimo,

00:51:47.179 --> 00:51:52.119
the most general. Nobody more general than me.

00:51:54.340 --> 00:51:56.400
Unambiguous language so that you can't say, wait

00:51:56.400 --> 00:51:59.239
a minute, what gives you the authority? Clearly

00:51:59.239 --> 00:52:01.800
you have the authority, you're the leader. What

00:52:01.800 --> 00:52:05.559
question is there to ask here, right? If you

00:52:05.559 --> 00:52:08.579
think about their national fascist programs of

00:52:08.579 --> 00:52:12.739
expansion and conquest, the Italians referred

00:52:12.739 --> 00:52:17.239
to bonifica, the reclamation, reclaiming what

00:52:17.239 --> 00:52:21.340
had been Rome's, right? Spreading out and trying

00:52:21.340 --> 00:52:25.380
to take over the old Roman imperial territory,

00:52:25.820 --> 00:52:28.719
reclaiming this for Italy and for the glory of

00:52:28.719 --> 00:52:31.710
the descendants of the Roman Empire. What's wrong

00:52:31.710 --> 00:52:33.610
with that? We're just trying to get back. What's

00:52:33.610 --> 00:52:36.630
ours, right? Same thing with the Germans. Liebensraum,

00:52:37.349 --> 00:52:40.329
living space. What's wrong with living space?

00:52:40.670 --> 00:52:42.849
I look at my living room every day and say, you

00:52:42.849 --> 00:52:45.949
know what, if I had my TV over here, I could

00:52:45.949 --> 00:52:47.989
probably have a living space. What's wrong with

00:52:47.989 --> 00:52:49.849
that, baby? Everybody got to stretch their wings

00:52:49.849 --> 00:52:56.429
a little bit. The Germans were really good too

00:52:56.429 --> 00:53:01.230
about encoding violence into seemingly benign

00:53:01.230 --> 00:53:06.349
language, the end of the song, the final solution

00:53:06.349 --> 00:53:10.150
to the Jewish question, which means genocide,

00:53:10.429 --> 00:53:13.250
right? It means the ritualistic practically,

00:53:13.269 --> 00:53:16.429
but certainly the systematic murder of millions

00:53:16.429 --> 00:53:19.880
of people. But this is a solution to a problem.

00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:22.320
We had a problem and we're solving it now. This

00:53:22.320 --> 00:53:25.440
is our final solution, right? Same thing with,

00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:27.619
if you think about a few episodes back, we talked

00:53:27.619 --> 00:53:29.440
about contempt for the weak and the way people

00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:32.940
with mental disabilities and other problems,

00:53:34.099 --> 00:53:37.179
they would be given what was known as Sonderbehandlung,

00:53:37.739 --> 00:53:41.480
special treatment. Special treatment. Don't worry

00:53:41.480 --> 00:53:43.179
about them. We're going to go and we're going

00:53:43.179 --> 00:53:44.519
to take care of them. We're going to give them

00:53:44.519 --> 00:53:46.519
special treatment. That sounds great. Can I start?

00:53:47.219 --> 00:53:51.989
Yeah. Yeah, exactly, right? The Spanish referred

00:53:51.989 --> 00:53:58.409
to cruzada, the crusade. Okay, it's Christian,

00:53:58.550 --> 00:54:00.449
right? We're gonna march behind Jesus? Just,

00:54:00.550 --> 00:54:04.260
okay, perfect. All of these things sound... good

00:54:04.260 --> 00:54:06.960
on the surface, we're solving problems, we're

00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:08.679
giving people who need special treatment the

00:54:08.679 --> 00:54:11.500
treatment that they need. We're going on a crusade

00:54:11.500 --> 00:54:13.900
against, you know, the evil commies and what

00:54:13.900 --> 00:54:17.139
have you. And all of this allows for ordinary

00:54:17.139 --> 00:54:20.159
quote unquote ordinary folks to pretend they

00:54:20.159 --> 00:54:23.920
never knew what was happening. Think about the

00:54:23.920 --> 00:54:27.099
people in Germany and in Poland and in other

00:54:27.099 --> 00:54:30.710
parts of Europe. who literally had concentration

00:54:30.710 --> 00:54:35.869
camps in their backyards and would claim to Russian

00:54:35.869 --> 00:54:39.690
and US military authorities that we never knew

00:54:39.690 --> 00:54:41.750
what was going on. We knew it was a camp, but

00:54:41.750 --> 00:54:44.090
we could never have imagined what was possibly...

00:54:44.090 --> 00:54:46.710
Come on, you can smell the burning flesh. Don't

00:54:46.710 --> 00:54:49.449
bullshit me. But because the language, right?

00:54:49.449 --> 00:54:51.989
Oh, it was a final solution. They never said

00:54:51.989 --> 00:54:53.550
anything about murder. They never said anything

00:54:53.550 --> 00:54:56.929
about genocide. So we get to ignore and pretend

00:54:56.929 --> 00:55:00.510
this was never happening. By the way, we do this

00:55:00.510 --> 00:55:04.039
here in the modern United States. We say things

00:55:04.039 --> 00:55:07.880
like enhanced interrogation, when what we mean

00:55:07.880 --> 00:55:12.940
is torture. And it allows us to ignore what we

00:55:12.940 --> 00:55:16.239
know is happening. We know prisoners and certain

00:55:16.239 --> 00:55:19.059
military installations are being tortured for

00:55:19.059 --> 00:55:22.750
information, but It's enhanced interrogation.

00:55:22.929 --> 00:55:24.650
We're just trying to figure out the facts and

00:55:24.650 --> 00:55:26.969
we're just doing so in ways that are coercive.

00:55:27.230 --> 00:55:29.050
Don't you worry about it. Just turn your back.

00:55:29.130 --> 00:55:31.989
You can sleep safe and sound at night because

00:55:31.989 --> 00:55:36.349
we are water torturing these poor people, right?

00:55:36.570 --> 00:55:38.829
Goodness. Yeah. More crazy, man. I mean, like,

00:55:38.909 --> 00:55:43.820
honestly, I just, oh, geez, Louise. Even tie

00:55:43.820 --> 00:55:47.539
it back to episode 13, man. We say things like

00:55:47.539 --> 00:55:51.159
real man when what we mean is the brutal oppressive

00:55:51.159 --> 00:55:59.280
patriarchy. Real man of genius. Yes. The wingman

00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:03.559
one is my favorite with Mr. We may, um, okay.

00:56:03.699 --> 00:56:05.920
So I'm, I'm, I'm about to bust at the seams.

00:56:06.039 --> 00:56:08.480
Cause I, I, I've been listening, listening to

00:56:08.480 --> 00:56:10.860
you make, I mean, make honestly just wonderful

00:56:10.860 --> 00:56:13.380
points here and listening to the different examples

00:56:13.380 --> 00:56:15.820
and all I can think of. Cause it's like, you

00:56:15.820 --> 00:56:17.420
know, my analytical brain is like, let me just

00:56:17.420 --> 00:56:19.239
try to cut through the bullshit, right? For a

00:56:19.239 --> 00:56:21.099
second. And just like really get down to what

00:56:21.099 --> 00:56:22.900
we're talking about here. And I'm not saying

00:56:22.900 --> 00:56:24.380
that we're bullshitting, but of course we are

00:56:24.380 --> 00:56:25.960
bullshit. Like we're bullshitters and honestly,

00:56:26.079 --> 00:56:29.619
no, but like. What I feel like I'm hearing you

00:56:29.619 --> 00:56:35.320
tell me is new speak is the word salads that

00:56:35.320 --> 00:56:40.079
we put together to basically overwhelm the listener

00:56:40.079 --> 00:56:42.380
to a point that they don't even understand what

00:56:42.380 --> 00:56:44.960
we're saying. And can they, they can only just

00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:49.630
nod and agree. Pretty much. I mean, because like,

00:56:50.809 --> 00:56:53.550
okay, for example, I mean, like living space,

00:56:53.550 --> 00:56:56.570
you know, or final solution, or it's really a

00:56:56.570 --> 00:56:59.230
struggle or special treatment. I mean, like these,

00:57:00.010 --> 00:57:01.909
the words that you've described and I'm not going

00:57:01.909 --> 00:57:05.889
to try to repeat them because I'm not, but like,

00:57:06.050 --> 00:57:08.969
it's like one word to describe two words. It's

00:57:08.969 --> 00:57:11.250
like, let's simplify the language is simplifying

00:57:11.250 --> 00:57:12.730
the language. And I mean, we talk about this

00:57:12.730 --> 00:57:15.429
now, you know, and I mean, you know, unfortunately,

00:57:15.429 --> 00:57:18.500
you know, we live. And particularly you and I,

00:57:18.539 --> 00:57:20.760
I mean, maybe me more so than you, but I'm sure

00:57:20.760 --> 00:57:23.619
you, you see this too, but we live in areas in

00:57:23.619 --> 00:57:26.260
the Eastern, the United States, the Eastern United

00:57:26.260 --> 00:57:28.019
States, where the reading level, the reading

00:57:28.019 --> 00:57:31.300
comprehension is probably not above six to eighth

00:57:31.300 --> 00:57:34.039
grade in the communities that we live in, you

00:57:34.039 --> 00:57:38.760
know? And so like we inherently have to be mindful

00:57:38.760 --> 00:57:40.539
of the language that we use so that we don't

00:57:40.539 --> 00:57:44.340
over explain or over talk or talk over someone,

00:57:44.579 --> 00:57:47.940
right? But by doing that, I mean, like we have

00:57:47.940 --> 00:57:50.980
opened the door to allow really smart people

00:57:50.980 --> 00:57:59.079
to use words in, in these very, uh, nefarious

00:57:59.079 --> 00:58:01.880
ways because, and I say nefarious because there

00:58:01.880 --> 00:58:04.820
is intent behind what they're doing. You know,

00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:07.920
they know that what they're trying to tell you

00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:12.019
is we're getting ready to fire 575 people. But

00:58:12.019 --> 00:58:16.480
if we say that we're doing it so that, you know,

00:58:16.639 --> 00:58:19.099
we can save money and that we're going to see

00:58:19.099 --> 00:58:21.480
a savings of X amount of dollars, you know, your

00:58:21.480 --> 00:58:23.440
stockholders are going to say, all right, that's

00:58:23.440 --> 00:58:27.960
cool. You know, um, but you're, you're, you're

00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:31.079
obfuscating the fact that there are now 500 and

00:58:31.079 --> 00:58:33.119
some odd people who have to go out and find a

00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:37.139
job in the worst economies, you know, that We've

00:58:37.139 --> 00:58:39.500
seen in a while, I'm not going to say in our

00:58:39.500 --> 00:58:41.699
lifetimes because we've seen some tough times,

00:58:41.699 --> 00:58:44.119
you know, with the great recession and, and other

00:58:44.119 --> 00:58:48.579
things too, but unemployment rate is high. You

00:58:48.579 --> 00:58:51.619
know, uh, the economy inflation is just not a

00:58:51.619 --> 00:58:53.820
great time to be looking for a job, you know?

00:58:53.980 --> 00:58:57.400
Um, but it's these people with power, you know,

00:58:57.559 --> 00:59:01.420
and somewhat intelligent that have spun this.

00:59:01.719 --> 00:59:04.860
Ah, and it's the spin, right? But they've spun

00:59:04.860 --> 00:59:08.059
this. I just spun this story into something that

00:59:08.059 --> 00:59:13.099
is actually a positive, but they've just like,

00:59:13.380 --> 00:59:16.599
they've just upended that many people's lives.

00:59:17.840 --> 00:59:21.219
Right. Right. It's, it's insidious. It's nefarious.

00:59:21.280 --> 00:59:23.960
Like we said at the beginning, it's, it's wicked.

00:59:24.119 --> 00:59:29.719
I mean, it is, it is. And I mean, and I guess

00:59:29.719 --> 00:59:32.800
like, you know, Going back to the examples that

00:59:32.800 --> 00:59:36.280
you gave, you know, um, and I had to make that

00:59:36.280 --> 00:59:38.139
point because it's like, it was just, it's just

00:59:38.139 --> 00:59:40.099
like eating at me. Cause it to me, it's like,

00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:42.340
it just seemed so clear. That's exactly what

00:59:42.340 --> 00:59:45.320
this is. New speak is a way for people in power

00:59:45.320 --> 00:59:47.780
to use a bunch of words to describe something

00:59:47.780 --> 00:59:50.639
so that the, the, the audience, whoever is the

00:59:50.639 --> 00:59:52.860
one that's digesting that is basically like,

00:59:52.860 --> 00:59:56.860
Oh, Okay. Because I mean, like what you're saying,

00:59:56.880 --> 00:59:58.320
it's a bunch of really horrible shit in, you

00:59:58.320 --> 01:00:00.099
know, in a flowery way. And then you're putting

01:00:00.099 --> 01:00:02.599
like the little accent at the end, you know,

01:00:02.800 --> 01:00:04.539
you know, and we're going to make it all much.

01:00:04.739 --> 01:00:07.000
And by doing all of these things, the final solution

01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:09.119
and all of this, that the other, the struggles

01:00:09.119 --> 01:00:11.000
and they're going to make a better life for you.

01:00:11.139 --> 01:00:13.219
We're going to give you more living space, you

01:00:13.219 --> 01:00:19.920
know? Um, and so that is just so. Oh, it's insidious

01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:22.420
indeed. You know, and I mean, if you think about

01:00:22.420 --> 01:00:24.940
it, I mean, like. Hearing that from a leader,

01:00:24.940 --> 01:00:27.980
you know, a global leader. I mean, that kind

01:00:27.980 --> 01:00:32.179
of language, I mean, it's kind of patriotic,

01:00:32.199 --> 01:00:34.579
you know, and obeying that, you know, going along

01:00:34.579 --> 01:00:36.400
with it is like, you're being patriotic too,

01:00:36.400 --> 01:00:41.440
you know? And even when we start to see, you

01:00:41.440 --> 01:00:44.960
know, marginalized peoples or the people who

01:00:44.960 --> 01:00:47.980
are being targeted being treated very, very poorly,

01:00:48.199 --> 01:00:50.820
you know, we see cruelty and we see brutality

01:00:50.820 --> 01:00:54.119
and we see racism. We kind of just say, Oh, well,

01:00:54.119 --> 01:00:55.960
you know, it's okay. That's fine. It's just,

01:00:55.960 --> 01:00:59.059
it's just part of the, it's just part of the.

01:00:59.839 --> 01:01:02.039
unfortunate. It's just part of the net, the nastiness,

01:01:02.039 --> 01:01:04.260
you know, whatever part of the program is part

01:01:04.260 --> 01:01:06.480
of the program. I mean, and like, honestly, like

01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:09.219
that's crazy, you know, and it's hard to make

01:01:09.219 --> 01:01:10.900
that example right now because like right now

01:01:10.900 --> 01:01:12.239
here in the South, I mean, I'm kind of really

01:01:12.239 --> 01:01:13.980
proud to be a North Carolinian because I mean,

01:01:14.059 --> 01:01:16.800
we stood up to ice and basically got them to,

01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:18.179
you know, go ahead and pack up your stuff and

01:01:18.179 --> 01:01:20.219
head home. You know, that doesn't change the

01:01:20.219 --> 01:01:22.480
fact that like our state has done some really

01:01:22.480 --> 01:01:28.139
horrible things. But the reality is that before

01:01:28.139 --> 01:01:30.789
that, Before this, and I think it's because we've

01:01:30.789 --> 01:01:32.590
been seeing this in the news and it's a groundswell

01:01:32.590 --> 01:01:34.469
and we've been seeing it in larger metros and

01:01:34.469 --> 01:01:35.989
we're basically just waiting down here like,

01:01:35.989 --> 01:01:38.550
hi y 'all. Y 'all come on now. We got our, we

01:01:38.550 --> 01:01:40.530
got our Bojangles sweet team. We're ready to

01:01:40.530 --> 01:01:45.190
fight. But yes, but you know, the reality is

01:01:45.190 --> 01:01:48.389
that before that we were still seeing this kind

01:01:48.389 --> 01:01:52.289
of stuff happen, you know, and you know, while

01:01:52.289 --> 01:01:54.610
we saw this today and it feels like a victory.

01:01:55.019 --> 01:01:57.860
I think I invite you to go onto YouTube. I'm

01:01:57.860 --> 01:01:59.820
not YouTube, but I want to like Facebook or any

01:01:59.820 --> 01:02:02.280
other kind of social media and just scroll through

01:02:02.280 --> 01:02:04.679
and just look for anybody who might be posting

01:02:04.679 --> 01:02:08.539
about that happening. In certain cities, because

01:02:08.539 --> 01:02:11.539
I promise you for as many people that you say

01:02:11.539 --> 01:02:13.460
stand up to ice, you're going to have just as

01:02:13.460 --> 01:02:16.599
many to say, deport all those illegals. I'm glad

01:02:16.599 --> 01:02:18.960
they're here. I'm glad they're here and people

01:02:18.960 --> 01:02:21.630
are going along with it. That's the point I want

01:02:21.630 --> 01:02:24.389
to make is that people will go along with it

01:02:24.389 --> 01:02:26.610
because they've been indoctrinated with this

01:02:26.610 --> 01:02:29.909
for so long. You know, with the immigration,

01:02:30.469 --> 01:02:33.590
the borders were, you know, they're, they're

01:02:33.590 --> 01:02:36.070
just flooding the borders. You know, they're,

01:02:36.070 --> 01:02:39.050
you know, raping and killing us and all of those

01:02:39.050 --> 01:02:41.869
things. And so they've, they, they've set that,

01:02:41.869 --> 01:02:43.530
that narrative in there. And so like certain

01:02:43.530 --> 01:02:45.909
people would just go along with it and it's crazy.

01:02:46.789 --> 01:02:51.590
And I guess it's because words. Really have power.

01:02:51.590 --> 01:02:58.130
I mean they really do so so What would you say

01:02:58.130 --> 01:03:01.329
man? What do you people need? What do you think

01:03:01.329 --> 01:03:04.550
people should be doing? Like help me help me

01:03:04.550 --> 01:03:07.309
here. What do people need to recognize in their

01:03:07.309 --> 01:03:10.969
everyday lives? When this kind of stuff is going

01:03:10.969 --> 01:03:13.369
on because I think I honestly honest real quick

01:03:13.369 --> 01:03:15.730
man before you answer I think that we have become

01:03:15.730 --> 01:03:19.690
so indoctrinated with new speak that we can't

01:03:19.500 --> 01:03:22.179
We almost can't even identify when it's happening

01:03:22.179 --> 01:03:24.519
because you gave an example. You've given examples

01:03:24.519 --> 01:03:26.019
throughout this whole conversation where I'm

01:03:26.019 --> 01:03:29.380
like, oh, well, dang, that is I guess that is,

01:03:29.380 --> 01:03:31.400
you know, agree to disagree and stuff like that.

01:03:31.440 --> 01:03:33.199
You like you say it all the time. It's like you

01:03:33.199 --> 01:03:35.059
and you don't even understand. I mean, you know

01:03:35.059 --> 01:03:36.900
what it means, but you don't understand the weight

01:03:36.900 --> 01:03:39.679
behind it is basically saying, well, you're a

01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:41.019
fucking idiot and I'm not going to listen to

01:03:41.019 --> 01:03:46.380
anything you say. Bye. For sure. And we are unfortunately

01:03:46.380 --> 01:03:50.050
in a in a. time right now that we're critical

01:03:50.050 --> 01:03:52.989
thinking and any kind of analytical approach

01:03:52.989 --> 01:03:58.389
to news current events. As a historian, it's

01:03:58.389 --> 01:04:00.150
actually hard for me to make sense of some of

01:04:00.150 --> 01:04:02.230
this because not enough time has passed. And

01:04:02.230 --> 01:04:04.489
so approaching it historically sometimes is a

01:04:04.489 --> 01:04:09.070
little bit a little bit nebulous. The words themselves

01:04:09.070 --> 01:04:11.909
are probably somewhat obvious, right? If we think

01:04:11.909 --> 01:04:14.590
about them, we can we can see and we can sort

01:04:14.590 --> 01:04:17.619
of understand the distortion. But a lot of times

01:04:17.619 --> 01:04:21.400
I think we maybe don't recognize it or don't

01:04:21.400 --> 01:04:23.380
recognize it as we should because we get swept

01:04:23.380 --> 01:04:26.360
up at the convenience of this impoverished language

01:04:26.360 --> 01:04:28.699
because really, I mean, it's easier than pushing

01:04:28.699 --> 01:04:32.179
back. Let's be honest. If you have to choose

01:04:32.179 --> 01:04:34.760
between picking up a slogan and carrying it forward

01:04:34.760 --> 01:04:37.019
or pushing back and saying, no, wait a minute,

01:04:37.019 --> 01:04:41.139
that's not clear. It's just easier most of the

01:04:41.139 --> 01:04:44.780
time to say, oh, yeah, America. Great. That sounds

01:04:44.780 --> 01:04:49.380
right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and honestly, like, look,

01:04:49.420 --> 01:04:51.500
we've been saying enhanced interrogation for

01:04:51.500 --> 01:04:53.920
a long time, knowing the whole time, what it

01:04:53.920 --> 01:04:57.159
means since the nineties anyway. Well, yeah,

01:04:57.159 --> 01:04:58.960
but I don't think we've, I mean, like, you know,

01:04:58.960 --> 01:05:02.099
yes, we do, but I think that's the beauty of,

01:05:02.099 --> 01:05:05.480
well, not the beauty of authoritarians using

01:05:05.480 --> 01:05:08.059
news speak, right? Because we use it so much

01:05:08.059 --> 01:05:10.599
that it becomes like, we forget like what the

01:05:10.599 --> 01:05:13.219
true meaning of it is, you know, because I mean,

01:05:13.659 --> 01:05:16.079
like, Up until today, you know, I hadn't really

01:05:16.079 --> 01:05:18.280
thought about, I hadn't really connected those.

01:05:18.420 --> 01:05:20.360
I mean, like I had in the past, obviously, especially

01:05:20.360 --> 01:05:22.320
like when the Guantanamo Bay stuff was like really

01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:24.539
prevalent in the news. But since then, I haven't

01:05:24.539 --> 01:05:26.420
really thought much about it, you know, and then

01:05:26.420 --> 01:05:29.300
you, but you hear enhanced interrogation and

01:05:29.300 --> 01:05:31.320
you just don't even think twice about what it

01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:35.179
really is, you know? Um, and you know, it's like,

01:05:35.360 --> 01:05:40.760
yeah, that's, that's why news speak is so flipping

01:05:40.760 --> 01:05:44.739
effective, man. Yeah, man. You and I grew up

01:05:44.739 --> 01:05:47.760
during the later part of the Cold War. How often

01:05:47.760 --> 01:05:50.820
did we hear about UN peacekeeping missions when

01:05:50.820 --> 01:05:54.059
what that meant was people were going over with

01:05:54.059 --> 01:05:56.820
guns to intervene in some way, right? Right.

01:05:56.980 --> 01:06:01.699
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right now, with ice out in

01:06:01.699 --> 01:06:03.900
the streets right here in our own state, you

01:06:03.900 --> 01:06:07.639
know? Yeah. law and order, which sounds like

01:06:07.639 --> 01:06:10.300
a relatively like, yeah, of course, law and order,

01:06:10.539 --> 01:06:13.460
duh. You know, that has amped up a police state

01:06:13.460 --> 01:06:16.400
that bears loyalty to the regime, right? And

01:06:16.400 --> 01:06:19.800
we still, speaking of Jim Crow and slavery, we

01:06:19.800 --> 01:06:21.920
still don't have the right words to appropriately

01:06:21.920 --> 01:06:24.320
discuss the horrors of slavery and Jim Crow.

01:06:25.059 --> 01:06:28.440
So, yeah, we often rely on legal jargon, which

01:06:28.699 --> 01:06:32.079
Some people just don't understand or social media

01:06:32.079 --> 01:06:36.800
posts that while important, they're more of the,

01:06:36.800 --> 01:06:39.820
you know, the online kind of headline culture,

01:06:40.099 --> 01:06:42.659
soundbite culture. Right. Well, I mean, if it's

01:06:42.659 --> 01:06:45.300
coming from a news source, okay, sure. But if

01:06:45.300 --> 01:06:48.599
it's coming from a person, I mean, nowadays you

01:06:48.599 --> 01:06:52.019
can't tell if it's authentic or self aggrandizing.

01:06:52.019 --> 01:06:56.010
Right. You know, I mean, It's like this influencer

01:06:56.010 --> 01:06:59.230
culture that we live in. You don't know if they're

01:06:59.230 --> 01:07:02.090
doing it for the purpose, for the cause or for

01:07:02.090 --> 01:07:04.289
the clicks. For the clicks. Yeah, absolutely.

01:07:04.769 --> 01:07:07.369
And, you know, the media in general, whether

01:07:07.369 --> 01:07:10.050
it's online social media, whether it's influencer

01:07:10.050 --> 01:07:12.650
culture, whether it's, you know, legacy media,

01:07:12.969 --> 01:07:16.949
um, really since about the 1980s, our media has

01:07:16.949 --> 01:07:19.969
really distorted any kind of civil political

01:07:19.969 --> 01:07:26.320
discourse or. If you think about debate, when

01:07:26.320 --> 01:07:28.860
you engage in a debate, if you're in a debate

01:07:28.860 --> 01:07:32.159
class, for example, right? The idea here is that

01:07:32.159 --> 01:07:35.340
you argue the issues in order to reach some kind

01:07:35.340 --> 01:07:38.780
of a consensus or some kind of a center point

01:07:38.780 --> 01:07:41.860
where people can say, okay, we agree on these

01:07:41.860 --> 01:07:43.980
things and let's go forward from here. It's not

01:07:43.980 --> 01:07:47.019
like that anymore. debate is all about just owning

01:07:47.019 --> 01:07:50.480
the libs or owning the, the cuck servant. You

01:07:50.480 --> 01:07:52.880
know, whichever side it's coming from, it's all

01:07:52.880 --> 01:07:55.800
about. It's gamified. I mean, and we've done

01:07:55.800 --> 01:07:57.659
that. We've done that with so much stuff, but

01:07:57.659 --> 01:08:00.400
particularly with our political landscape, it's

01:08:00.400 --> 01:08:03.420
because it's become so gamified where it's like,

01:08:03.519 --> 01:08:05.440
we're keeping track of who's winning and who's

01:08:05.440 --> 01:08:07.679
losing. And I mean, the bad thing about it is

01:08:07.679 --> 01:08:09.980
like in that, I mean, the reality is that like,

01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:11.820
you know, and I hate this sounds, this sounds

01:08:11.820 --> 01:08:16.210
so effing cliche, but we. We're all losing. We're

01:08:16.210 --> 01:08:19.510
all losing when that happens. Right. And then

01:08:19.510 --> 01:08:21.229
we're seeing it right now. I mean, like with

01:08:21.229 --> 01:08:24.029
people having, well, I mean, you know, the government's

01:08:24.029 --> 01:08:26.470
back open, but during the shutdown snap benefits

01:08:26.470 --> 01:08:30.409
were, you know, threatened. Uh, I mean, healthcare

01:08:30.409 --> 01:08:33.970
expenses are going up. I mean, like we're all

01:08:33.970 --> 01:08:36.710
losing the cost of everything is higher than

01:08:36.710 --> 01:08:41.229
it was before. I mean, it's yeah. But yet, but

01:08:41.229 --> 01:08:43.810
yet, you know, like somebody got a great soundbite.

01:08:44.060 --> 01:08:47.000
out of a debate, and now we can run on that.

01:08:47.819 --> 01:08:51.279
Like, yeah, what do you get out of that other

01:08:51.279 --> 01:08:53.359
than just like the feeling that my team won?

01:08:53.659 --> 01:08:55.340
That's the thing, man. It's like we've we've

01:08:55.340 --> 01:08:58.300
like, it's yeah, sports across the board. Yep,

01:08:58.600 --> 01:09:00.960
it's it's performative. It's competitive, but

01:09:00.960 --> 01:09:05.939
it's not substantial. It's we've given, you know,

01:09:05.979 --> 01:09:09.380
on our podcast, we have given Senator Cory Booker

01:09:09.380 --> 01:09:13.289
from New Jersey credit for his They didn't call

01:09:13.289 --> 01:09:15.090
it a filibuster, but that's essentially what

01:09:15.090 --> 01:09:17.750
it was that was going on was a filibuster. And

01:09:17.750 --> 01:09:21.010
yet like, where's he been since? Like what, what's,

01:09:21.090 --> 01:09:25.010
you know, I mean, you know, soundbites and they

01:09:25.010 --> 01:09:27.729
were great and, and it looked great, but like,

01:09:27.810 --> 01:09:30.010
it was performative, ma 'am. I mean, you know,

01:09:30.010 --> 01:09:33.369
and I think that, you know, that there are, there's

01:09:33.369 --> 01:09:37.210
a large contingent of our, of all the democratic,

01:09:37.590 --> 01:09:41.189
democratic leaders that are beholden to a pack

01:09:41.189 --> 01:09:43.159
money. I mean, I'm just going to, I'm just going

01:09:43.159 --> 01:09:46.060
to say it. And I mean, I think that has absolutely

01:09:46.060 --> 01:09:50.539
neutered them in this fight for justice and for

01:09:50.539 --> 01:09:54.100
democracy. And you have watched them one by one

01:09:54.100 --> 01:09:58.579
by one. Um, I mean, just capitulate to, I mean,

01:09:58.579 --> 01:10:00.260
like you look at the shutdown, you look at just,

01:10:00.479 --> 01:10:02.060
I mean, the shutdown was a big one. I mean, the

01:10:02.060 --> 01:10:03.399
shutdown was the one that I think that like hit

01:10:03.399 --> 01:10:06.199
me, hurt me the hardest because I mean, it's

01:10:06.199 --> 01:10:10.359
like we, we were in a fight, you know, and they

01:10:10.359 --> 01:10:14.710
just. gave up. And I mean, you know, it's, it's,

01:10:14.829 --> 01:10:16.829
and the politics of it was dirty. And I mean,

01:10:16.949 --> 01:10:19.109
we have brought up, you know, watching like House

01:10:19.109 --> 01:10:21.829
of Cards and stuff before and like how politics

01:10:21.829 --> 01:10:25.270
just gets dirty like that. And wow, okay. But

01:10:25.270 --> 01:10:29.930
like, Chuck Schumer was definitely behind the

01:10:29.930 --> 01:10:32.550
deal on ending the shutdown. And yet he didn't

01:10:32.550 --> 01:10:35.390
vote to end it, right? He let eight other people

01:10:35.390 --> 01:10:37.789
do it. And it's just like, This has all been

01:10:37.789 --> 01:10:39.909
political showmanship from the very beginning.

01:10:40.130 --> 01:10:41.569
And now you're just throwing in the time. And

01:10:41.569 --> 01:10:44.770
listen, if it means people get their food benefits

01:10:44.770 --> 01:10:47.970
back, then okay, I get it. Okay. Great. Yeah.

01:10:48.010 --> 01:10:50.010
Open the government back up. But I mean, like

01:10:50.010 --> 01:10:54.289
with what else we had to sacrifice in the meantime,

01:10:54.590 --> 01:10:59.069
it w it was, I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't worth,

01:10:59.170 --> 01:11:01.109
it wasn't worth even going through to begin with.

01:11:01.149 --> 01:11:03.489
I mean, to be perfectly honest with you, I mean,

01:11:04.730 --> 01:11:07.909
Yeah. So we're back to that. We're back to smoking.

01:11:08.369 --> 01:11:10.710
Yeah. I was going to say talking points and smoking

01:11:10.710 --> 01:11:14.649
mirrors. I mean, you know, so, uh, yeah. And,

01:11:14.750 --> 01:11:17.369
and like, let's be honest. I mean, yeah, we've

01:11:17.369 --> 01:11:21.390
moved on past that. I mean, yeah. Well, and the

01:11:21.390 --> 01:11:23.289
thing here is just like with the fascists of

01:11:23.289 --> 01:11:25.510
the 20th century, there's no attempt anymore

01:11:25.510 --> 01:11:28.869
really to even be subtle. So we're not playing

01:11:28.869 --> 01:11:32.479
around with thought. policing so much, although

01:11:32.479 --> 01:11:35.920
there's plenty of that going on. We're just going

01:11:35.920 --> 01:11:39.640
right to the let's use the language that makes

01:11:39.640 --> 01:11:42.960
our case and takes away anybody's ability to

01:11:42.960 --> 01:11:45.420
really disagree with us, right? So the Trump

01:11:45.420 --> 01:11:48.279
playbook, you know, like you said earlier in

01:11:48.279 --> 01:11:50.579
the conversation, everything he says becomes

01:11:50.579 --> 01:11:53.819
a slogan, everything he says becomes, you know,

01:11:53.939 --> 01:11:59.569
a flashpoint. And so I mean, you know, Where

01:11:59.569 --> 01:12:01.930
shall we start? I don't know, man. I'm going

01:12:01.930 --> 01:12:04.970
to be honest with you. I mean, one of my favorites

01:12:04.970 --> 01:12:09.510
is, is, uh, fake news. Um, and it's because,

01:12:09.649 --> 01:12:13.109
you know, well for him, it's really anybody that,

01:12:13.369 --> 01:12:16.069
well, I would, you could say anybody who disagrees

01:12:16.069 --> 01:12:17.770
with him, but you know, really in the journalist

01:12:17.770 --> 01:12:19.850
realm, you know, in that, that field, you know,

01:12:19.930 --> 01:12:24.090
anybody that he disagrees with or. Um, that disagrees

01:12:24.090 --> 01:12:27.149
with him or is, you know, brave enough to ask

01:12:27.149 --> 01:12:29.789
him quite pointed questions about things he's

01:12:29.789 --> 01:12:33.069
engaged in. But, but to me, I love it because

01:12:33.069 --> 01:12:38.810
it's like the perfect retort to a conservative,

01:12:38.810 --> 01:12:41.430
you know, if, if I happen to get into a debate

01:12:41.430 --> 01:12:46.989
with them about anything, it's like, it's just,

01:12:46.989 --> 01:12:51.350
it's fine. Well, you know, by that same token,

01:12:51.390 --> 01:12:53.970
and this is one that was sort of a one and done.

01:12:54.029 --> 01:12:56.090
They didn't use it for long, but back in the

01:12:56.090 --> 01:12:59.569
first term when what's your name? I can't remember

01:12:59.569 --> 01:13:03.989
her name right now. Sarah Huckabee. Was that

01:13:03.989 --> 01:13:08.949
her or was it? Or no, it was Kelly Conway. Yes,

01:13:09.050 --> 01:13:12.590
yes. Alternative facts, right? Yeah, indicating

01:13:12.590 --> 01:13:16.310
a wholly separate reality that rejects widely

01:13:16.310 --> 01:13:19.189
acknowledged details, right? We're not lying.

01:13:19.270 --> 01:13:21.750
These are just a set of alternative facts. It's

01:13:21.750 --> 01:13:27.670
like, so you're lying. Yeah, exactly. You know,

01:13:27.890 --> 01:13:30.369
as some of those things are silly, but some of

01:13:30.369 --> 01:13:33.109
them get really bad to enemies of the people.

01:13:33.270 --> 01:13:37.409
Now we're doing populist news speak. Now we're,

01:13:37.409 --> 01:13:41.069
you know, talking about on behalf of the people

01:13:41.069 --> 01:13:43.010
and looking at others and saying, those are the

01:13:43.010 --> 01:13:46.170
enemies labeling any opposition from any sector

01:13:46.170 --> 01:13:49.369
to be enemies of the people, including internal

01:13:49.369 --> 01:13:52.329
enemies of the people. Right? Yeah. Including

01:13:52.329 --> 01:13:57.149
Democrats and ex military who have spoken up,

01:13:57.149 --> 01:14:00.689
you know, about not following illegal orders.

01:14:00.930 --> 01:14:04.569
And now there's so much so enemies of the people

01:14:04.569 --> 01:14:06.859
that he thinks they should be hung. And think

01:14:06.859 --> 01:14:09.159
about the way he said that too. He didn't, you

01:14:09.159 --> 01:14:11.140
know, I guess he did eventually come out and

01:14:11.140 --> 01:14:13.960
write it out in fuller measure, which for Trump,

01:14:13.960 --> 01:14:16.720
you know, come on. But his initial thing was

01:14:16.720 --> 01:14:19.359
what? Seditious behavior, punishable by death.

01:14:19.939 --> 01:14:22.760
No ambiguity there whatsoever. Nothing to push

01:14:22.760 --> 01:14:26.500
back with. Boom. Seditious behavior. No nuance.

01:14:27.220 --> 01:14:29.359
Punishable by death. Of course, he's wrong. It's

01:14:29.359 --> 01:14:31.260
not seditious behavior because it's just, first

01:14:31.260 --> 01:14:34.399
of all, it's just talking. Right. It's in subordination

01:14:34.399 --> 01:14:38.210
at best. At best. Uh, but even that, no, the,

01:14:38.210 --> 01:14:41.670
the, the senators were actually on the nose.

01:14:42.090 --> 01:14:44.289
Uh, from my own military experience, I can tell

01:14:44.289 --> 01:14:46.689
you that one of the things that we learn is illegal

01:14:46.689 --> 01:14:48.970
wars exist and you do not follow them. Right.

01:14:49.170 --> 01:14:51.670
Exactly. Well, you know, another one of, you

01:14:51.670 --> 01:14:54.890
know, another term from his playbook that I also

01:14:54.890 --> 01:14:59.970
particularly love is witch hunt. Um, you know,

01:15:00.029 --> 01:15:02.970
he seems to love to pull this one out whenever

01:15:02.970 --> 01:15:08.159
he. The need to kind of simplify complex legal

01:15:08.159 --> 01:15:11.880
or political processes, uh, particularly if they're

01:15:11.880 --> 01:15:15.880
been turned against him more than likely because

01:15:15.880 --> 01:15:20.319
he's not followed them appropriately. Um, but

01:15:20.319 --> 01:15:22.720
he does this, he, you know, uses that term, which

01:15:22.720 --> 01:15:25.159
haunted to really frame himself as the victim.

01:15:25.439 --> 01:15:28.220
Um, and a lot of those cases when oftentimes

01:15:28.220 --> 01:15:33.350
he is not the victim at all. And. In fact, probably

01:15:33.350 --> 01:15:38.609
the aggressor, but, but, you know, I don't love

01:15:38.609 --> 01:15:41.909
it for this reason. Um, actually I hate it for

01:15:41.909 --> 01:15:46.270
this reason is there were actual weight chunks,

01:15:46.270 --> 01:15:51.390
you know, in our country at one point and all

01:15:51.390 --> 01:15:57.430
of it was a farce. I mean, it was a way to demonize

01:15:57.430 --> 01:16:03.369
outspoken women. Um, people who women, you know,

01:16:03.569 --> 01:16:06.390
more than more often than not, you know, that

01:16:06.390 --> 01:16:10.649
didn't conform to the norms of that time, you

01:16:10.649 --> 01:16:14.729
know? Um, and you know, what's even worse is

01:16:14.729 --> 01:16:19.909
that these women were healers often in their

01:16:19.909 --> 01:16:23.250
communities and these same people that persecuted

01:16:23.250 --> 01:16:29.649
them to death went to them for help. And like

01:16:29.649 --> 01:16:33.649
the fact that he is so so flippantly throwing

01:16:33.649 --> 01:16:36.649
that term around because he heard it once and

01:16:36.649 --> 01:16:40.550
it sounded good to him and he has No idea of

01:16:40.550 --> 01:16:43.689
the historical context to that just pisses me

01:16:43.689 --> 01:16:48.140
off Yeah, well, and again, you know, other episodes

01:16:48.140 --> 01:16:50.439
of witch hunts, you know, from McCarthyism to

01:16:50.439 --> 01:16:54.140
the demonization of gay men in the 80s, because

01:16:54.140 --> 01:16:56.140
of the AIDS crisis, you know, all of these things

01:16:56.140 --> 01:17:00.119
really happened, partially because systems of

01:17:00.119 --> 01:17:03.180
power turned their backs on people who were victimized.

01:17:03.300 --> 01:17:06.920
And now this guy, literally the epitome of wealth

01:17:06.920 --> 01:17:10.039
and power in the country right now, pretends

01:17:10.039 --> 01:17:13.920
to be a victim of Yeah. Well, that's, I mean,

01:17:13.939 --> 01:17:16.279
that's an excellent point is that throughout

01:17:16.279 --> 01:17:21.939
history, the term witch hunt has been used against,

01:17:21.939 --> 01:17:27.500
um, people outside of the norm. I mean, going

01:17:27.500 --> 01:17:29.619
all the way back to the original witch hunts,

01:17:29.640 --> 01:17:32.960
you know, um, they, they were people who lived

01:17:32.960 --> 01:17:35.800
on, you know, kind of the outskirts of society,

01:17:36.199 --> 01:17:41.420
you know, um, And were of course, you know, persecuted

01:17:41.420 --> 01:17:45.279
because they were different. Right. And now the

01:17:45.279 --> 01:17:48.560
most powerful man in one of the most powerful

01:17:48.560 --> 01:17:52.460
countries in the world thinks that he is the

01:17:52.460 --> 01:17:55.300
same, essentially that is a victim to that level

01:17:55.300 --> 01:17:57.600
that, that we will be making stuff up. Because

01:17:57.600 --> 01:17:59.880
I mean, let's be honest, the original witch hunts,

01:17:59.960 --> 01:18:03.159
you know, why that term is so important to him

01:18:03.159 --> 01:18:05.800
because the original witch hunts And maybe he

01:18:05.800 --> 01:18:07.180
knows a little bit of history. Maybe somebody

01:18:07.180 --> 01:18:10.199
sat him down and told him something because that

01:18:10.199 --> 01:18:15.579
was most times faults or just completely made

01:18:15.579 --> 01:18:20.220
up facts or, um, proof that these women were

01:18:20.220 --> 01:18:23.420
witches that was used against them, you know,

01:18:23.680 --> 01:18:26.239
no information at all, no evidence whatsoever.

01:18:27.380 --> 01:18:30.159
And He wants to do the same thing, but in the

01:18:30.159 --> 01:18:33.060
middle of these like complex legal situations

01:18:33.060 --> 01:18:35.659
that he's found himself in. And I mean, like

01:18:35.659 --> 01:18:38.640
somebody who's been convicted of what? 34 felonies.

01:18:38.640 --> 01:18:41.779
I don't think they get to call themselves the

01:18:41.779 --> 01:18:45.779
witch in that sense. Right. You know? Yeah. Yeah.

01:18:46.680 --> 01:18:49.319
Justice gets it wrong sometimes, but I mean,

01:18:50.000 --> 01:18:53.220
When you're the most powerful white man in the

01:18:53.220 --> 01:18:56.340
world, it's kind of hard, you know, but again

01:18:56.340 --> 01:18:59.859
this Demonizes those people who have opposed

01:18:59.859 --> 01:19:04.279
him just like he demonizes Well, listen the deep

01:19:04.279 --> 01:19:07.500
state right right? Yep Deep state that sounds

01:19:07.500 --> 01:19:10.439
like something out of a spy novel the deep state.

01:19:10.439 --> 01:19:13.939
Oh, there's a wellian Yeah, absolutely. And all

01:19:13.939 --> 01:19:16.840
he's talking about is what Orwellian that's a

01:19:16.840 --> 01:19:18.560
good reference for this episode, right? Yeah,

01:19:18.560 --> 01:19:21.539
it's talking about ordinary civil servants, people

01:19:21.539 --> 01:19:24.640
like you and me, who may you know, maybe their

01:19:24.640 --> 01:19:28.380
career military officers, scientists who have

01:19:28.380 --> 01:19:31.340
government contracts, all of these people, when

01:19:31.340 --> 01:19:33.699
he talks about the deep state, he's recasting

01:19:33.699 --> 01:19:36.680
all of them as, you know, shady players in a

01:19:36.680 --> 01:19:42.659
vast conspiracy. And so he breeds distrust in

01:19:42.659 --> 01:19:46.479
our institutions. He breeds distrust in universities

01:19:46.479 --> 01:19:48.859
as centers of education because people think

01:19:48.859 --> 01:19:52.079
they are simply for liberal brainwashing, right?

01:19:52.739 --> 01:19:55.819
The deep state is coming after the Trump administration

01:19:55.819 --> 01:20:00.750
because he wants to free America from the clutches

01:20:00.750 --> 01:20:04.430
of whatever bullshit it is this week. And the

01:20:04.430 --> 01:20:06.149
deep states trying to stop him from doing that.

01:20:06.170 --> 01:20:07.869
So we're going to let all of these people go.

01:20:08.130 --> 01:20:10.390
And everybody says, Oh, yeah, well, that's fine.

01:20:10.729 --> 01:20:14.710
Because they're the deep state. The again, we're

01:20:14.680 --> 01:20:17.039
downsizing, downsizing the federal government

01:20:17.039 --> 01:20:20.560
is what's going on here. Yeah, it's, and it's

01:20:20.560 --> 01:20:24.420
interesting, you know, because he has been waving

01:20:24.420 --> 01:20:30.079
that flag of the deep state for so long that

01:20:30.079 --> 01:20:34.479
he himself has become the deep state. I mean,

01:20:34.520 --> 01:20:38.779
in, in the truest sense of what that is meant

01:20:38.779 --> 01:20:40.779
to reference, right? Because, you know, the idea

01:20:40.779 --> 01:20:42.539
of the deep state is that there's basically a

01:20:42.539 --> 01:20:45.979
shadow government. you know, behind the real

01:20:45.979 --> 01:20:48.880
government and that it's just working independently

01:20:48.880 --> 01:20:53.039
to control all the levers of society. Which is

01:20:53.039 --> 01:20:57.399
exactly what he wants. He is, he's doing that

01:20:57.399 --> 01:21:00.380
y 'all, like he's doing that. He is making independent

01:21:00.380 --> 01:21:02.239
decisions. He's not going through Congress. I

01:21:02.239 --> 01:21:05.079
mean, he, he changed the department of defense

01:21:05.079 --> 01:21:07.180
to the department of war. That wasn't, there

01:21:07.180 --> 01:21:08.920
was no congressional approval for that. He just

01:21:08.920 --> 01:21:11.199
did it. Just left up a sign, you know i'm saying

01:21:11.199 --> 01:21:14.640
like so yeah, I mean, you know, I don't I can't

01:21:14.640 --> 01:21:19.720
think of another More relevant example of deep

01:21:19.720 --> 01:21:23.920
state than donald j trump. Yeah, I agree I mean

01:21:23.920 --> 01:21:27.819
100 right right out of the 80s, you know soviet

01:21:27.819 --> 01:21:31.500
spy movies He is the villain. I mean, yeah, he

01:21:31.500 --> 01:21:33.920
is I mean he is you know, and the funny thing

01:21:33.920 --> 01:21:38.720
is that like He does all this he he you know

01:21:38.939 --> 01:21:44.359
Lies so much, you know, he spends these webs

01:21:44.359 --> 01:21:47.539
and these stories and these word salads, you

01:21:47.539 --> 01:21:51.500
know, but anything that he doesn't believe or

01:21:51.500 --> 01:21:56.039
that opposes his interests. Like the Epstein

01:21:56.039 --> 01:22:01.409
files being it's a hoax. It's a hoax. It's a

01:22:01.409 --> 01:22:04.010
hoax. It's a democratic hoax. It's a whatever

01:22:04.010 --> 01:22:06.289
hoax. Most of the time it's a democratic hoax.

01:22:06.409 --> 01:22:08.270
Let's be honest. But I mean, like, you know,

01:22:08.390 --> 01:22:11.630
anything that like, that he doesn't believe in.

01:22:11.810 --> 01:22:15.189
And the thing is, it's not that it's like factual

01:22:15.189 --> 01:22:18.789
or not, or true or not, or relevant or not. It's

01:22:18.789 --> 01:22:22.229
just basically if he doesn't believe in it, you

01:22:22.229 --> 01:22:25.689
know, and not believe that it exists, he's very

01:22:25.689 --> 01:22:28.800
aware that the Epstein files exist. It's almost

01:22:28.800 --> 01:22:32.859
like he witnessed all the discovery of crop circles

01:22:32.859 --> 01:22:36.340
in the latter part of the 20th century, and heard

01:22:36.340 --> 01:22:38.100
about how many of them were hoaxes, and he was

01:22:38.100 --> 01:22:41.000
like, oh, maybe that's the way. Everything's

01:22:41.000 --> 01:22:43.140
a hoax. Nothing is true. Everything's a hoax.

01:22:43.600 --> 01:22:46.319
Everything's a hoax. Well, and literally, when

01:22:46.319 --> 01:22:49.939
he says that, now people, they look at things,

01:22:50.060 --> 01:22:52.340
they look at pictures of him with Jeffrey Epstein,

01:22:52.460 --> 01:22:55.680
they look at, you know, the, if you recall that,

01:22:55.680 --> 01:22:59.000
that drawing of the woman's body that he supposedly

01:22:59.000 --> 01:23:02.159
didn't do, even though he absolutely did. Um,

01:23:02.500 --> 01:23:04.560
you know, people look at those things and say,

01:23:04.800 --> 01:23:06.800
well, he says it's a hoax. And in, you know,

01:23:06.819 --> 01:23:09.640
in a world of AI where AI can create things is

01:23:09.640 --> 01:23:12.100
what I'm looking at real. He says it's a hoax.

01:23:12.119 --> 01:23:15.539
So maybe it's not real. And so we're missing

01:23:15.539 --> 01:23:19.680
the, the, the, well, yeah, you're right. Because

01:23:19.680 --> 01:23:21.399
then you, then you have to actually point out

01:23:21.399 --> 01:23:24.899
to these people that no, That information was

01:23:24.899 --> 01:23:29.199
in a file back in 1993 or some crazy thing, you

01:23:29.199 --> 01:23:31.920
know, when the investigation first started. So

01:23:31.920 --> 01:23:34.359
no, no, no, no, it's not AI. I mean, as much

01:23:34.359 --> 01:23:37.220
as you want it to be, you know, and so like,

01:23:37.539 --> 01:23:39.359
it's like, yeah, we're constantly having to remind

01:23:39.359 --> 01:23:41.359
people that there are actual facts, you know,

01:23:41.380 --> 01:23:43.439
and so far, like it was, we've kind of gone through

01:23:43.439 --> 01:23:45.100
this playbook. We've talked about fake news,

01:23:45.300 --> 01:23:48.109
alternative facts, you know, Well, enemies of

01:23:48.109 --> 01:23:50.109
the people will kind of let that one skirt for

01:23:50.109 --> 01:23:53.510
a minute, uh, which hunt deep state and hoax

01:23:53.510 --> 01:23:56.470
of those things that we just, that I just mentioned.

01:23:56.710 --> 01:23:58.770
I mean, everything basically, all of them, except

01:23:58.770 --> 01:24:01.310
enemies of the people references is like false

01:24:01.310 --> 01:24:04.869
hoods, you know, and it's how it's interesting

01:24:04.869 --> 01:24:09.409
that like he can spend the web that all the things

01:24:09.409 --> 01:24:12.510
around him are false. All the things around him

01:24:12.510 --> 01:24:14.449
are false. They're fake news. They're alternative

01:24:14.449 --> 01:24:18.720
facts. Um, you know, it's, it's a hoax. I mean,

01:24:18.819 --> 01:24:25.159
this, um, this is a witch hunt by the deep state.

01:24:25.460 --> 01:24:28.899
I mean, like what in the world, like what utopian

01:24:28.899 --> 01:24:33.029
nightmare are we living in right now? Not utopian,

01:24:33.329 --> 01:24:36.069
dystopian. Sorry. Yeah, I knew what you meant.

01:24:36.810 --> 01:24:41.930
No, you're absolutely... How can we not be terrified

01:24:41.930 --> 01:24:44.270
when he's constantly using this kind of language?

01:24:45.050 --> 01:24:47.710
And even if you support him, if you stop and

01:24:47.710 --> 01:24:49.170
think about who Donald Trump has always been,

01:24:49.329 --> 01:24:51.770
you know. You know it's all bullshit. Come on.

01:24:52.670 --> 01:24:57.899
Give yourself some credit. But even the more

01:24:57.899 --> 01:25:00.539
positive ones or positive leaning ones are the

01:25:00.539 --> 01:25:02.560
ones that have more positive implications. However,

01:25:02.560 --> 01:25:07.159
you want to look at that. They also what America

01:25:07.159 --> 01:25:10.800
first? Yep. As the President of the United States,

01:25:10.819 --> 01:25:13.420
I would hope so. That's that's your job, right?

01:25:14.060 --> 01:25:17.340
Put Americans needs and interests first. But

01:25:17.340 --> 01:25:20.859
that's not what he's talking about. This sounds

01:25:20.859 --> 01:25:24.109
very patriotic. It sounds very positive. But

01:25:24.109 --> 01:25:26.989
it veils any distinction at all between national

01:25:26.989 --> 01:25:30.289
interest and the racial grievances and hierarchies

01:25:30.289 --> 01:25:32.189
and those kinds of problems that we've always

01:25:32.189 --> 01:25:36.109
dealt with. He's talking about white America,

01:25:36.590 --> 01:25:39.050
white Christian America specifically. He's not

01:25:39.050 --> 01:25:40.869
talking about America first. He's talking about

01:25:40.869 --> 01:25:43.170
white Christian people first. Well, that's what

01:25:43.170 --> 01:25:44.989
he's saying, but we say America first and people

01:25:44.989 --> 01:25:47.029
are like, Oh yeah, that sounds great. Fantastic.

01:25:47.109 --> 01:25:49.289
Of course it does. Of course it does. And I mean,

01:25:49.289 --> 01:25:52.399
you know, And it does, like you said, it doesn't,

01:25:52.399 --> 01:25:55.180
uh, address any of the issues that we're dealing

01:25:55.180 --> 01:25:58.439
internally in our country with the disparities

01:25:58.439 --> 01:26:00.460
and the inequalities and all of those things.

01:26:01.199 --> 01:26:07.199
But tell me, explain it to me. Like I'm someone

01:26:07.199 --> 01:26:15.739
Trump would have sex with. Yes. Um, how is it

01:26:15.739 --> 01:26:18.100
America first when we're giving Venezuela all

01:26:18.100 --> 01:26:21.420
this money? You know what I'm saying? Like when

01:26:21.420 --> 01:26:26.779
we're bringing in like leaders of known terrorist

01:26:26.779 --> 01:26:31.600
supporting countries that attacked our country,

01:26:31.840 --> 01:26:35.119
that attacked our country, but he has business

01:26:35.119 --> 01:26:38.420
interests in those countries. So he's going to

01:26:38.420 --> 01:26:43.600
host them. and then not only host them to our

01:26:43.600 --> 01:26:46.380
press for killing another for killing a press

01:26:46.380 --> 01:26:48.899
member in his like, bro, that's not America first,

01:26:49.039 --> 01:26:52.159
like, show, show me, please help me understand.

01:26:52.260 --> 01:26:56.239
Remember, I'm 14. Yeah, I was you know, the $40

01:26:56.239 --> 01:26:59.079
billion to Argentina, which is run by, you know,

01:26:59.340 --> 01:27:03.180
a populist authoritarian, the hosting Mohammed

01:27:03.180 --> 01:27:05.399
bin Salman, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia,

01:27:05.619 --> 01:27:12.409
these are he passes these kind of strong man,

01:27:12.510 --> 01:27:15.449
buddy, buddy. So that's not even bringing in

01:27:15.449 --> 01:27:18.029
people like Putin and stuff like all that jazz,

01:27:18.170 --> 01:27:20.069
man, like all that, you know, like how he has

01:27:20.069 --> 01:27:22.689
bent the knee and like that was at North Korea.

01:27:23.010 --> 01:27:27.149
I mean, like just go down the list. I mean, like

01:27:27.149 --> 01:27:30.569
the Viktor Orban in Hungary. Yeah, right. The

01:27:30.569 --> 01:27:33.449
leaders that he has like literally bent the knee

01:27:33.449 --> 01:27:37.699
to. But he says he's America first. Not one of

01:27:37.699 --> 01:27:41.100
those, like not one of those leaders have an

01:27:41.100 --> 01:27:43.319
interest, a vested interest in making America

01:27:43.319 --> 01:27:46.939
great again, or putting America first. Nope.

01:27:47.619 --> 01:27:49.920
They need our money. They need our technology.

01:27:50.039 --> 01:27:52.729
They need our, you know, land, they need our

01:27:52.729 --> 01:27:55.829
deals, they don't care about our interests. And

01:27:55.829 --> 01:27:57.489
listen, I'm not saying that our interests are

01:27:57.489 --> 01:27:59.130
the only interests in the world that matter.

01:27:59.130 --> 01:28:01.649
Of course not. But to the President of the United

01:28:01.649 --> 01:28:03.449
States, they should be pretty high on the list.

01:28:03.750 --> 01:28:05.909
Yeah, I would say they should be first on the

01:28:05.909 --> 01:28:08.289
list. If you're going to make America first.

01:28:08.470 --> 01:28:10.210
I'm just saying. I mean, you know, that's because

01:28:10.210 --> 01:28:13.430
how my brain works, you know? Yeah. But I think

01:28:13.430 --> 01:28:16.029
it's interesting, you know, that he has that

01:28:16.029 --> 01:28:18.850
kind of rhetoric, you know, around making America

01:28:18.850 --> 01:28:22.979
first. And Then how he's going to do that is

01:28:22.979 --> 01:28:26.539
drain the swamp, the swamp of DC. That is, you

01:28:26.539 --> 01:28:30.239
know, basically reducing federal employees who

01:28:30.239 --> 01:28:33.539
are embodied in, you know, the, the capital of

01:28:33.539 --> 01:28:36.340
our capital of our country, Washington, DC, he's

01:28:36.340 --> 01:28:40.220
reducing it to assess pool. That is like basically

01:28:40.220 --> 01:28:47.520
needing to be flushed, drained, and then sterilized,

01:28:47.699 --> 01:28:52.890
you know, um, And only he can do it. He can't.

01:28:52.949 --> 01:28:54.430
And you know, the thing is, like, think about

01:28:54.430 --> 01:28:55.869
this, because, like, really, if we're going to,

01:28:55.930 --> 01:28:57.270
quote unquote, drain the swamp, then the voters

01:28:57.270 --> 01:28:58.609
should be able to do that. The voters should

01:28:58.609 --> 01:29:00.789
be the ones that that that make those choices

01:29:00.789 --> 01:29:03.550
on who they send up there. But like what he's

01:29:03.550 --> 01:29:05.789
he alone is going to be the one who helps who

01:29:05.789 --> 01:29:08.050
not even helps who does who drains the swamp.

01:29:09.109 --> 01:29:15.159
Yeah. And it's it's. It ignores, again, all of

01:29:15.159 --> 01:29:18.899
the complexity of politics, you know, DC city

01:29:18.899 --> 01:29:22.939
politics and Virginia and Maryland politics because

01:29:22.939 --> 01:29:25.399
they're right next door and federal politics.

01:29:25.739 --> 01:29:28.500
It ignores all of those complexities and it boils

01:29:28.500 --> 01:29:31.079
it down once again to a very simple drain the

01:29:31.079 --> 01:29:32.859
swamp. Well, that sounds like a good thing. Swamps

01:29:32.859 --> 01:29:35.840
aren't good places. Guess what, folks? Washington

01:29:35.840 --> 01:29:38.140
DC is literally built on a swamp. That's what

01:29:38.140 --> 01:29:40.800
the Potomac floodplain is. It's a swamp. The

01:29:40.800 --> 01:29:44.000
swamp literally has been drained several times

01:29:44.000 --> 01:29:46.279
for different kinds of projects, including things

01:29:46.279 --> 01:29:48.239
like the Jefferson Memorial and other things

01:29:48.239 --> 01:29:51.119
there on the mall. Draining the swamp is not

01:29:51.119 --> 01:29:53.739
something that's ever going to actually be a

01:29:53.739 --> 01:29:56.579
permanent thing. Politics is swampy stuff in

01:29:56.579 --> 01:30:00.659
a swampy city, and he is the swampiest swamp

01:30:00.659 --> 01:30:03.619
thing of them all. He really, he really is, man.

01:30:04.119 --> 01:30:06.039
He really is. And the funny thing is that he

01:30:06.039 --> 01:30:07.699
says he's going to drain the swamp, but then

01:30:07.699 --> 01:30:10.439
he basically fills his cabinet with some of the

01:30:10.439 --> 01:30:14.500
like, I mean, yeah, bro. I was going to say they're

01:30:14.500 --> 01:30:16.159
not even the swamp things, man. They're like

01:30:16.159 --> 01:30:18.420
the, the, the things that hang on the swamp things,

01:30:18.560 --> 01:30:22.180
man. It's just so like the most disgusting people,

01:30:22.460 --> 01:30:24.920
you know, in our country. I mean, they really

01:30:24.920 --> 01:30:27.779
are, you know, um, and they, they get away with

01:30:27.779 --> 01:30:29.579
it. They get the free pass because, you know,

01:30:29.659 --> 01:30:32.340
Hey, They're in the cabinet, you know, because

01:30:32.340 --> 01:30:37.079
they're all here in his mind to make America

01:30:37.079 --> 01:30:39.899
great again. Right. Which is really, I mean,

01:30:40.020 --> 01:30:42.819
honestly, we heard that we've heard that all

01:30:42.819 --> 01:30:45.140
over. I mean, the whole, there's a movement now

01:30:45.140 --> 01:30:47.760
is it's a whole thing. It's a whole movement.

01:30:47.939 --> 01:30:50.979
Now they're calling it, you know, that is apparently

01:30:50.979 --> 01:30:55.640
now dying. Great. But I mean, at the end of the

01:30:55.640 --> 01:30:57.760
day, man, when he was talking about making America

01:30:57.760 --> 01:31:00.640
great again, I mean, that was just really a very

01:31:00.640 --> 01:31:06.000
vague and, uh, and an empty promise of a better

01:31:06.000 --> 01:31:09.159
time that honestly just never existed because

01:31:09.159 --> 01:31:14.619
when was this country ever great, great, you

01:31:14.619 --> 01:31:16.279
know, just not again, but just great in a sense.

01:31:16.359 --> 01:31:18.680
I mean, we're a great country. We have done a

01:31:18.680 --> 01:31:22.859
lot of great things, but when we look back in

01:31:22.859 --> 01:31:27.239
the, in our history, right. I think of a time

01:31:27.239 --> 01:31:33.420
where it wasn't basically white men running things.

01:31:33.420 --> 01:31:37.079
Yeah. I mean, and really this like white men

01:31:37.079 --> 01:31:40.640
with a Christian nationalist agenda. Right. You

01:31:40.640 --> 01:31:44.239
know? And I mean, that's not taking us back to

01:31:44.239 --> 01:31:49.439
a better time. I mean, it felt like there was

01:31:49.439 --> 01:31:51.560
a point in our country that we were making some

01:31:51.560 --> 01:31:54.619
real headway, you know, diversity and inclusion

01:31:54.619 --> 01:31:57.560
and. You know, all of the, all of the wonderful

01:31:57.560 --> 01:32:00.020
things that you'd like to see, but man, it, we

01:32:00.020 --> 01:32:02.119
have definitely, it feels like taking a step

01:32:02.119 --> 01:32:05.039
back and it's just really hard because, you know,

01:32:05.260 --> 01:32:09.920
I want America to be great. I mean, just period,

01:32:11.020 --> 01:32:14.659
period, period. You know, for everybody. Yeah.

01:32:14.699 --> 01:32:17.020
I mean, really for everybody. Exactly, man. You

01:32:17.020 --> 01:32:20.659
know? Um, and it's just, it's a shame that we

01:32:20.659 --> 01:32:25.140
have leaders now. who are really doing everything

01:32:25.140 --> 01:32:29.380
they absolutely can to claw that away in this

01:32:29.380 --> 01:32:36.199
effort to make America great again. Bingo. Oh

01:32:36.199 --> 01:32:40.159
man, you know, in Billy, it makes you wonder,

01:32:40.159 --> 01:32:44.020
you know, if, if every age, if every age has

01:32:44.020 --> 01:32:47.479
its own version of new speak, you know, And I

01:32:47.479 --> 01:32:49.659
mean, like, what hope do we really ever have

01:32:49.659 --> 01:32:51.939
of escaping the cycle? I mean, it just seems

01:32:51.939 --> 01:32:57.119
to be so effective as a tool, particularly for

01:32:57.119 --> 01:33:02.180
authoritarians. I think, sadly, as we become,

01:33:02.699 --> 01:33:04.960
I'm not going to say dumber as a society, I think

01:33:04.960 --> 01:33:09.680
just less attentive as a society. It overwhelmed.

01:33:10.000 --> 01:33:12.619
Yeah, overwhelmed with too much. Yeah. So, I

01:33:12.619 --> 01:33:16.390
mean, it just makes it just, you know, it It

01:33:16.390 --> 01:33:18.329
makes me really wonder, you know, where does

01:33:18.329 --> 01:33:21.250
that leave us now? You know, when words are weapons

01:33:21.250 --> 01:33:28.529
and truth itself is up for grabs. Yeah. Um, scary

01:33:28.529 --> 01:33:32.390
times for sure, but you know, maybe, maybe we

01:33:32.390 --> 01:33:35.329
can't escape it entirely. It's it's here. It's

01:33:35.329 --> 01:33:37.770
part of what we do. It's part of what we understand

01:33:37.770 --> 01:33:41.210
is the society society we live in and maybe escaping

01:33:41.210 --> 01:33:43.010
it. Isn't even the point, right? We just got

01:33:43.010 --> 01:33:46.300
to be conscious of it. We have to be aware that

01:33:46.300 --> 01:33:48.920
this is happening. We have to understand the

01:33:48.920 --> 01:33:51.739
processes by which they're limiting our ability

01:33:51.739 --> 01:33:55.420
to think for ourselves, to push back at things

01:33:55.420 --> 01:33:59.340
that we know don't really match up. We have to

01:33:59.340 --> 01:34:02.579
remember that we've always inherited language,

01:34:02.859 --> 01:34:06.159
information, all of it. All of it is always shaped

01:34:06.159 --> 01:34:11.920
by power. Have the capacity to push back and

01:34:11.920 --> 01:34:13.920
we might remember that and we need to remember

01:34:13.920 --> 01:34:18.420
that we have the right to demand clarity Right

01:34:18.420 --> 01:34:23.600
in the novel 1984 Orwell warned about the dangers

01:34:23.600 --> 01:34:26.560
of forgetting what words mean that Orwellian

01:34:26.560 --> 01:34:31.239
society Had forgotten what words meant and so

01:34:31.239 --> 01:34:37.310
the words no longer worked right Echo laid out

01:34:37.310 --> 01:34:40.850
pretty clearly exactly how fascism thrives on

01:34:40.850 --> 01:34:46.550
this. So I guess, man, you know, fighting back

01:34:46.550 --> 01:34:49.170
means we need to pay attention to when words

01:34:49.170 --> 01:34:52.229
start to sound too simple. You know, when they're

01:34:52.229 --> 01:34:55.770
being manipulated or they sound like they're

01:34:55.770 --> 01:34:57.890
being, you know, they're being used to manipulate

01:34:57.890 --> 01:35:02.829
you or to cloud the minds of society, I guess.

01:35:03.210 --> 01:35:07.270
Um, you know, When you start to see that it's

01:35:07.270 --> 01:35:09.130
starting to the language is starting to shut

01:35:09.130 --> 01:35:11.949
us off instead of open us up Then we really have

01:35:11.949 --> 01:35:14.850
to start paying attention Otherwise the scripts

01:35:14.850 --> 01:35:18.710
gonna start writing us, you know Yeah, and by

01:35:18.710 --> 01:35:28.149
then it's too late Fifteen episodes ago we asked

01:35:28.149 --> 01:35:30.409
what fascism looks like when it isn't wearing

01:35:30.409 --> 01:35:34.619
a Hugo Boss inspired uniform In the many months

01:35:34.619 --> 01:35:37.659
since we've taken a look at authoritarian power

01:35:37.659 --> 01:35:41.180
through many lenses, tradition, masculinity,

01:35:42.039 --> 01:35:45.539
nationalism, populism, purity, even language

01:35:45.539 --> 01:35:50.060
itself. You know, and with our old friend echo

01:35:50.060 --> 01:35:53.100
as our guide, we have peered into the shadows

01:35:53.100 --> 01:35:56.229
of our fascism. through history all the way up

01:35:56.229 --> 01:35:59.229
to our modern day. And we have seen a lot of

01:35:59.229 --> 01:36:02.149
examples. We have seen how it thrives on fear

01:36:02.149 --> 01:36:05.729
of difference, of weakness, of opposition, and

01:36:05.729 --> 01:36:07.850
honestly how it manipulates us until we follow

01:36:07.850 --> 01:36:11.310
it blindly. Um, which is like super scary if

01:36:11.310 --> 01:36:14.829
you think about it. Um, and now, you know, as

01:36:14.829 --> 01:36:17.329
we close this season, we're left with the haunting

01:36:17.329 --> 01:36:22.050
truth. Fascism is not a relic of slum long ago

01:36:22.050 --> 01:36:26.359
past. It's a reoccurring pattern and it's repeating

01:36:26.359 --> 01:36:31.420
itself right now. It's a performance that adapts

01:36:31.420 --> 01:36:35.939
to its audience in any era. And in 2025 y 'all,

01:36:36.079 --> 01:36:39.640
guess what? We are the audience. Yeah, we are.

01:36:39.939 --> 01:36:43.579
And there are some people who might say that,

01:36:43.579 --> 01:36:46.300
you know, this isn't really worth talking about,

01:36:46.300 --> 01:36:49.140
uh, or certainly, you know, doing a deep dive

01:36:49.140 --> 01:36:52.979
season on because the people perpetrating all

01:36:52.979 --> 01:36:55.079
of this they don't really care if we call them

01:36:55.079 --> 01:36:57.840
out so what's the point of all this right um

01:36:57.840 --> 01:37:00.979
and let's be completely honest with ourselves

01:37:00.979 --> 01:37:04.000
what we began as an effort to call them out and

01:37:04.000 --> 01:37:06.520
hold them accountable and to make their lurch

01:37:06.520 --> 01:37:10.640
toward fascism more obvious to the public rapidly

01:37:10.640 --> 01:37:13.920
became more of a mad dash just to keep up and

01:37:13.920 --> 01:37:17.199
to try and keep score a little bit yep right

01:37:17.199 --> 01:37:21.300
but it's our freedom to talk about it that might

01:37:21.300 --> 01:37:25.619
yet save us. Knowing the enemy we're up against

01:37:25.619 --> 01:37:28.439
helps us to organize some sort of resistance

01:37:28.439 --> 01:37:33.180
and looking to the past, the examples throughout

01:37:33.180 --> 01:37:35.800
history, throughout the 20th century versions

01:37:35.800 --> 01:37:37.840
of fascism, looking at all of these examples

01:37:37.840 --> 01:37:40.100
from the past helps us to remember the things

01:37:40.100 --> 01:37:46.979
we need to do to beat them again. Indeed, indeed.

01:37:47.140 --> 01:37:49.079
And by the way, since you wanted to talk about

01:37:49.079 --> 01:37:52.399
keeping score, if you all have been keeping score,

01:37:52.859 --> 01:37:58.220
it seems that we have hit every single one of

01:37:58.220 --> 01:38:03.420
the features of our fascism. Yeah. How about

01:38:03.420 --> 01:38:07.680
that? A perfect score for a man obsessed with

01:38:07.680 --> 01:38:12.859
perfect scores. Every single one of them. Yeah.

01:38:12.960 --> 01:38:15.380
Yeah, exactly. And, you know, and remember when

01:38:15.380 --> 01:38:17.239
we started off, we said, you know, if three or

01:38:17.239 --> 01:38:19.760
four are evident, you should start, you should

01:38:19.760 --> 01:38:22.539
really like sit up, take notice. If like eight

01:38:22.539 --> 01:38:24.880
or nine or a parent, you should really begin

01:38:24.880 --> 01:38:29.300
to get nervous. But like all 14, um, guess what

01:38:29.300 --> 01:38:32.039
y 'all we're living under a fascist leader. Yes,

01:38:32.039 --> 01:38:35.239
we are. And nobody's trying to hide it anymore.

01:38:35.920 --> 01:38:40.279
Yeah. Fuck. Fuck indeed. You know, so, okay.

01:38:40.409 --> 01:38:41.909
We've talked about all of this. We've painted

01:38:41.909 --> 01:38:44.189
a kind of a dire picture. So like, what are the

01:38:44.189 --> 01:38:47.489
takeaways, right? Being consistently on the lookout

01:38:47.489 --> 01:38:50.949
for 14 things all the time. Let's be honest.

01:38:51.210 --> 01:38:54.869
That's a lot. It is. So what are the basic lessons

01:38:54.869 --> 01:38:58.970
here? Is there like an essentials version, a

01:38:58.970 --> 01:39:02.090
cliff notes version, Jimmy? Um, yeah, I think

01:39:02.090 --> 01:39:05.210
we can boil this down into a few notable things

01:39:05.210 --> 01:39:09.010
to keep in mind. Sure. Yeah. Okay. Fascism is

01:39:09.010 --> 01:39:13.420
a shape shifter. It's not always going to arrive

01:39:13.420 --> 01:39:18.079
in jackboots with let's not call it a Roman salute.

01:39:19.039 --> 01:39:22.000
Right. Sometimes it's going to come with more

01:39:22.000 --> 01:39:25.760
innocuous things like hashtags and campaign slogans,

01:39:26.100 --> 01:39:29.340
cable news segments and rallies with red hats.

01:39:30.500 --> 01:39:33.899
Sometimes it will look as innocent as your mild

01:39:33.899 --> 01:39:39.500
mannered next door neighbor. Tradition can be

01:39:39.500 --> 01:39:44.000
a trap. Reverence for the past can absolutely

01:39:44.000 --> 01:39:49.100
inform us and inspire us. It can help us to learn

01:39:49.100 --> 01:39:52.880
about who we are as people, as nations, as whatever.

01:39:53.979 --> 01:39:57.159
But tradition can also be used to silence and

01:39:57.159 --> 01:40:00.720
it can be used to exclude and it can allow us

01:40:00.720 --> 01:40:05.119
to backslide and to regress into times before

01:40:05.119 --> 01:40:12.140
progress. Spectacle does not equal substance.

01:40:13.239 --> 01:40:16.500
Pageantry, patriotism, all of these things are

01:40:16.500 --> 01:40:22.100
attractive. They are entertaining. They make

01:40:22.100 --> 01:40:25.720
us feel good. But what is it that they're really

01:40:25.720 --> 01:40:28.180
telling us about our responsibilities as fellow

01:40:28.180 --> 01:40:33.859
citizens of the world? And finally, modernity

01:40:33.859 --> 01:40:39.869
is fragile. Progress is fragile. A social harmony

01:40:39.869 --> 01:40:44.430
throughout the world is fragile. The enlightenment

01:40:44.430 --> 01:40:47.989
promised progress, but that promise is under

01:40:47.989 --> 01:40:52.489
siege by those who see reason as weakness and

01:40:52.489 --> 01:40:58.449
equality as a threat. Wow, man. Yeah, that's

01:40:58.449 --> 01:41:00.029
really good. I appreciate you kind of breaking

01:41:00.029 --> 01:41:02.050
it down there. And I think that's something that,

01:41:02.050 --> 01:41:07.270
you know, we can all digest and really be conscious

01:41:07.270 --> 01:41:10.329
of kind of as we go, go through, uh, go through

01:41:10.329 --> 01:41:12.750
our lives, you know, and, and just realize that,

01:41:12.750 --> 01:41:16.989
you know, while it seems very obvious right now,

01:41:17.229 --> 01:41:19.949
you know, it is kind of blatant in the face of

01:41:19.949 --> 01:41:21.890
almost everything that we do and see right now

01:41:21.890 --> 01:41:26.470
in America. Um, it is not always so obvious,

01:41:26.470 --> 01:41:29.189
you know, and there was a time not so long ago

01:41:29.189 --> 01:41:31.770
that it was really, you know, it truly was in

01:41:31.770 --> 01:41:33.930
the shadows. I mean, now it's out, out in the

01:41:33.930 --> 01:41:36.789
open. Um, So, you know, we should be able to

01:41:36.789 --> 01:41:39.569
identify it more, um, and really fight against

01:41:39.569 --> 01:41:43.550
it, you know? So, so, I mean, and, and honestly,

01:41:43.609 --> 01:41:45.329
the way that we, the way that we do that, right?

01:41:45.350 --> 01:41:48.170
How do we do that? You know, we resist the script,

01:41:48.670 --> 01:41:51.210
you know, we read critically, we speak clearly,

01:41:51.310 --> 01:41:54.409
we ask better questions. You know, we remember

01:41:54.409 --> 01:41:57.069
that democracy, democracy is not a destination.

01:41:57.550 --> 01:42:01.189
It really is a practice, right? And honestly,

01:42:01.489 --> 01:42:05.470
like modernity, it is very, very fragile. Yeah,

01:42:05.590 --> 01:42:09.090
man, we have we've definitely seen how fascism

01:42:09.090 --> 01:42:14.350
uses democracy the practice of democracy to erode

01:42:14.350 --> 01:42:18.510
the practice of democracy we've seen how it appeals

01:42:18.510 --> 01:42:21.689
with promises and it confuses with spectacle

01:42:21.689 --> 01:42:26.590
and Really, it's all distraction and destruction

01:42:26.590 --> 01:42:32.270
But we've also seen how history can arm us to

01:42:32.270 --> 01:42:37.039
resist History arms us with knowledge, with empathy,

01:42:37.739 --> 01:42:41.220
with the power to name what it is that's happening

01:42:41.220 --> 01:42:45.560
and to push back at that. That's right. Yeah.

01:42:45.560 --> 01:42:47.659
So let's push back, you know, let's be the ones

01:42:47.659 --> 01:42:50.100
who speak up when it's easier to stay silent.

01:42:50.720 --> 01:42:52.300
Let's be the ones who remember when forgetting

01:42:52.300 --> 01:42:55.079
is more comfortable. Let's be the ones who choose

01:42:55.079 --> 01:42:58.840
complexity over slogans, community over purity

01:42:58.840 --> 01:43:04.930
and courage over cruelty. Yeah. Because when

01:43:04.930 --> 01:43:07.710
they come for the truth, we have to be ready

01:43:07.710 --> 01:43:11.789
to shout it at all of them. Yeah, we do. You

01:43:11.789 --> 01:43:14.550
know, Franklin Roosevelt, president of the United

01:43:14.550 --> 01:43:18.250
States, the guy who faced off against the fascists

01:43:18.250 --> 01:43:20.529
of Europe in the 20th century during the Second

01:43:20.529 --> 01:43:23.649
World War, he spoke the following words on November

01:43:23.649 --> 01:43:28.350
4th, 1938. I venture the challenging statement

01:43:28.350 --> 01:43:31.470
that if American democracy ceases to move forward

01:43:31.470 --> 01:43:35.149
as a living force, seeking day and night by peaceful

01:43:35.149 --> 01:43:38.409
means to better the lot of our citizens, then

01:43:38.409 --> 01:43:42.310
fascism and communism, aided unconsciously perhaps

01:43:42.310 --> 01:43:46.329
by old -line Tory republicanism, will grow in

01:43:46.329 --> 01:43:53.149
strength in our land. Oh my gosh. Frankie D,

01:43:53.250 --> 01:43:57.750
buddy, if you had only known then how close we

01:43:57.750 --> 01:44:02.720
are right now. Yeah. Well. To quote from Umberto

01:44:02.720 --> 01:44:07.319
Eco one last time, freedom and liberation are

01:44:07.319 --> 01:44:16.880
an unending task. All right, y 'all. Thank you

01:44:16.880 --> 01:44:19.319
so much for walking down this road with us. You

01:44:19.319 --> 01:44:21.640
know, we're not done, not even close. Season

01:44:21.640 --> 01:44:24.380
two is already in the works and we're going deeper.

01:44:25.239 --> 01:44:30.800
More stories, more voices, more resistance. Yeah.

01:44:31.050 --> 01:44:34.289
You've heard us mention often the destructive

01:44:34.289 --> 01:44:36.689
influence of Christian nationalism throughout

01:44:36.689 --> 01:44:40.550
this season. Christian nationalism has in its

01:44:40.550 --> 01:44:43.229
various forms been a force for oppression and

01:44:43.229 --> 01:44:45.810
persecution in this country since the very beginning,

01:44:45.810 --> 01:44:49.270
and it has too often resulted in grim consequences

01:44:49.270 --> 01:44:53.409
for the nation and for its people. Both of us,

01:44:53.430 --> 01:44:56.430
for example, grew up in and were harmed by the

01:44:56.430 --> 01:45:00.699
church. My experience was liturgical and gloom

01:45:00.699 --> 01:45:05.500
and doom and guilt. Jeremy had a much more evangelical

01:45:05.500 --> 01:45:09.739
kind of experience. Oh boy, it was quite the

01:45:09.739 --> 01:45:12.619
experience. I tell you, I mean, there is no hate

01:45:12.619 --> 01:45:15.180
like Christian love kind of experience. I mean,

01:45:15.180 --> 01:45:17.479
the whole spare the rod, spoil the child kind

01:45:17.479 --> 01:45:22.439
of experience, the whole less run laps around

01:45:22.439 --> 01:45:26.560
the church kind of experience. Yeah, that's um,

01:45:26.600 --> 01:45:29.699
That's crazy stuff for sure. And that's going

01:45:29.699 --> 01:45:32.579
to be our topic for season two. We are really

01:45:32.579 --> 01:45:36.079
taking a big step here. Christian nationalism

01:45:36.079 --> 01:45:40.119
and its impacts on the American people then and

01:45:40.119 --> 01:45:43.779
now. We're going to pick it apart from its colonial

01:45:43.779 --> 01:45:47.460
roots to its stubborn staying power in 21st century

01:45:47.460 --> 01:45:51.000
American politics. We're not going to explore

01:45:51.000 --> 01:45:54.100
Christianity itself necessarily, although there

01:45:54.100 --> 01:45:56.899
will certainly be some of that. And our show

01:45:56.899 --> 01:45:59.760
is definitely not about disabusing anybody of

01:45:59.760 --> 01:46:03.779
their own beliefs. But we need to call out weaponized

01:46:03.779 --> 01:46:08.520
religion. And we're going to. Yeah. Yeah. You

01:46:08.520 --> 01:46:10.520
know, we're going to try to untangle that knot.

01:46:10.579 --> 01:46:13.380
I mean, because honestly, Christian nationalism

01:46:13.380 --> 01:46:16.180
has been at the root of some major controversies

01:46:16.180 --> 01:46:19.420
in this country. I mean, from colonial witch

01:46:19.420 --> 01:46:23.210
trials. I mean, to the Ku Klux Klan and from

01:46:23.210 --> 01:46:27.010
manifest destiny to the moral majority. I mean,

01:46:27.289 --> 01:46:30.729
it's, it's been very prevalent, uh, in our country.

01:46:31.010 --> 01:46:34.649
I mean, um, for, for a long, long time and has

01:46:34.649 --> 01:46:37.250
done some serious damage. So, you know, honestly,

01:46:37.449 --> 01:46:40.609
it's going to be one hell of a ride and you know,

01:46:40.609 --> 01:46:42.210
we're going to get into some wild discussions.

01:46:42.470 --> 01:46:45.029
Yeah, we will. All of our discussions are wild.

01:46:45.199 --> 01:46:47.640
That's what we do here at Weird, Wicked, and

01:46:47.640 --> 01:46:50.039
Wild, and we hope you will join us for season

01:46:50.039 --> 01:46:56.079
two. Until then, stay curious, stay kind, be

01:46:56.079 --> 01:47:00.880
good. And hold your head up high, keep a fist

01:47:00.880 --> 01:47:05.039
in the air, make good trouble, and as always,

01:47:05.659 --> 01:47:15.050
keep it weird y 'all. Thank you for listening

01:47:15.050 --> 01:47:18.170
to Weird Wicked and Wild. This episode was hosted

01:47:18.170 --> 01:47:21.470
by your buds, Jimmy and Jeremy. Research and

01:47:21.470 --> 01:47:24.470
Writing by Dr. James Wills. Technical Production

01:47:24.470 --> 01:47:27.630
and Editing by Jeremy Caton. We'd love to hear

01:47:27.630 --> 01:47:30.750
from you. Subscribe, rate and review us on your

01:47:30.750 --> 01:47:33.890
favorite podcast platform. You can also find

01:47:33.890 --> 01:47:37.130
us on Instagram and Facebook. Thanks again for

01:47:37.130 --> 01:47:52.760
listening. That's a wrap.