Hi there Internet, it's me Ruby Ray and I wanted
to preempt this episode with a little bit of
an apology. I'm really sorry about the audio
quality. This episode has been sitting with me
for almost a month and I've been extremely busy
at work. I've tried my best to clean up the audio
as much as I can but there's a lot of clipping
through. Still I felt like I wanted to post this.
Regardless, I'm going to chop it up into smaller,
more palatable bits for YouTube. But the full
thing is going to be here on the podcast channels.
So thank you for listening. If you like this
kind of content and you're watching on YouTube,
I have another YouTube channel called Ruby Raid,
where I speak specifically about my life. It's
a little bit. more free because it's not dependent
on guests. Anyway, I do have another episode
that will be coming out very shortly after this
one. So I hope you enjoy that. We welcome back
Ryan, who is now officially a neurosurgeon, he
says. Anyway, thank you for listening. Do like,
comment, subscribe and share. If you want us
to talk about something specific, please let
me know. Bye. Love you and enjoy. Hello folks,
I'm Luigi, and I think baby hippos are some of
the cutest things on the planet. Wait, have you
seen the Sleepy Hippo video? Sleepy Hippo video?
I haven't. No. Okay. I'm going to have to find
it. All right. Make it happen. And then we are
joined by... Hey, I'm Nora. I'm like Ruby said,
I'm a behavioral geneticist or I'm studying to
become a behavioral geneticist and I'm based
in South Africa. Excellent. When I first spoke
to you, can I say how we met? Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Nora and I are on a Discord server together,
and I like to go onto the Discord server while
I walk my dog. That's my go -to thing to do.
Some people listen to podcasts. When I'm not
in podcasts, I'm not listening to podcasts. I'm
talking to people and looking for people to bring
onto my podcast. What happened was Nora said,
next time you're on, let me know and I'll try
and be on. And that didn't happen, kind of. And
then the other day we were on and you were like,
yes, I'm here. We spoke for like three hours.
Amazing. What brought you to that server? So
basically the server we were on is basically
one of the only platforms I've been able to find
that's like a specific queer space for South
Africans. And that's like, it's specifically
trans focused, but it's like, it's a nice space.
And also just like meeting people from your own
country that are part of the same community as
you. Exactly. One of the best things about me
as a trans woman living alone in China with only
It's the standard Luigi for company. You're not
living alone. I'm living alone. You've got a
great life. I'm really envious. I tried. You
can, all you have to do is go out and make a
drink. Yeah, for real. Yeah. Nora, there's a
running gag on this show where Luigi is misanthropic.
No, I love people. He's spending money. What's
the term? Hate it. Is there a psychological term
for it? Probably, probably is. I haven't defined
it. Let me note that down. And then in the future,
I will self -diagnose. Pure obsessive -compulsive,
maybe. Manifest as a fear of spending money.
Really hurts for me to spend money. I'm like
a bad Ebenezer Scrooge. I don't know if it hurt
Ebenezer Scrooge to spend money. But that's my
segue to talk about the theme of today's episode
and probably maybe the next few ones, because
the decor won't change. Okay. It's Christmas.
It's still Christmas in my heart. It's the late
Christmas episode. It's because we missed Christmas.
Yeah. Luigi feels the sultry. Yeah. I really
like the Christmas season, and I know for some
people it might be painful, but I'm going gang
buster on decorating. And yes, it's still up,
and that's because in China, they don't have
their New Year for another month. So for me,
it's a reason, you know, to keep up with the
festivities. I get to pretend it's Christmas
a little longer. All right. Okay, we won't mention
it again. Oh, the viewers will just have to endure
my decor, my table runners, my beautiful, you
know, little red trees. Wow. It's been five minutes
and we've been babbling. There are segments that
we're missing. Nora, when we begin this, um,
we have a quick fire round, couple of questions,
just a roundabout. I'll start. We all answer
the same question and try and keep that to like
one set. Is that okay for you? Yeah. Yeah, that's
completely fine. You go first. Why did you study
what you wanted to study? You mean in school?
Yes, in university. Because I'm a fool. So I
was always kind of... academically like lost
when I came to university. I don't know if I
really studied what I really wanted to study.
I think I did, but also kind of didn't. So I
studied, I must have changed my major a billion
times. So for me to answer that question honestly,
I don't know if it's the honest answer because
I think I was just, it's weird. I'm academically
minded, but I don't think I was supposed to.
I don't think I was meant for university. That
sounds really strange. Sounds like a paradox.
I took English literature at first, and then
I changed to economics, and then I changed to
environmental studies, and then I went back into
literature, and then I changed into rhetoric.
So I was just chronically changing my degree.
Because I really didn't know what to do with
my life. I mean, technically, I guess I still
don't. And the difference is... Now I've just
settled into it. So I have a lot of majors and
my graduate degree was in, it was called cultural
analysis and social theory. It was just cultural
studies, which is kind of like an umbrella area
of study. It combines all humanity subjects.
So again, just speaks to my lack of direction
even still. Sorry, that was a long answer. Right,
thanks for that one sentence. My bad. I blew
it. I already messed up. English! I studied it
because I like poetry. We'll delve into that
a bit later. Nora, why did you study what you
wanted to study? I kind of went into genetics
because it's one of the newer sciences, I guess,
and we're still learning so much about it. So
my thought process was I'm interested in the
subject. There's good career growth opportunity
and opportunity for the field to develop. And
also there's just a lot of career opportunities,
like in general, like different jobs you can
do with a basic genetics degree. and then specialize
further. So it allowed me flexibility while still
being something I'm interested in with a higher
earning potential. What a practical answer. Yeah,
that's a great answer. Yeah, you got a good hand
on your shoulders. I studied communication and
even though I am now running a podcast and it
seems like that's exactly what I study. Yeah.
It's not. I studied like marketing. And the reason
I studied what I studied is because it's flexible.
I wanted something super, super flexible. And
I feel like I achieved that. I think that communications
has a lot of transdisciplinary qualities in terms
of like market. Yeah. Okay. I get it. Are you
punning? No, that's not pun. That's the necessary
word. You know, communications has to do with
marketing, it has to do with, um, what's that
other word? Like when you're like in charge of
a celebrity and you do all the talking for them,
PR. Public relations, yeah. Public relations,
thank you. So yeah, I mean, rhetoric's kind of,
rhetoric does draw a lot on communications. A
lot of the classes I took in university were
alongside communication. I don't know why. My
program technically was, I think, communications,
even though it was called rhetoric. Anyway. That's...
Nora, do you have a question for us? A quickfire
question. It can be fun. Yeah. I don't know.
It's so interesting to hear your stories because,
like, we have such different approaches to what
we studied. You in communication. us STEM majors,
and also like any humanities subjects, us STEM
majors just like making fun of humanities because
it's just a little rivalry. Yeah. So did you
have any of those, um, like little rivalries
with any of your STEM friends while studying
or did you not really interact with people in
that sense? Okay. Well, you touched on something
major because, so what I studied is not technically
Um, it's, it's not, obviously it's not STEM.
It was managed, it was commercial from degree.
Um, but I was registered for international relations
for the entirety of my study until the exam was
written. And that was because I suck at maths.
Really? Yeah, I had dyscalculia. I feel like
you told me this before. Yeah, HRT has basically
eliminated that. Now you can do math? Now I can
do found the cure for dyscalculia, it's HRT.
I can read numbers better. So anyway, yeah, all
of my studies, I was registered for BK Relations.
And then after my last exam, I walked into the
office like, look, I have none of the credits
for this. All of the credits for this changed
me. And they did. But to answer your question,
I'm still my best, most persistent friend from
high school is a senior software in a cloud service.
I had good relations with most of the STEM people
and almost zero relations with any of my own.
Me? I don't know. Also, I had deep shame for
being in the humanities because I went to a school
that was famous for engineering and math. Um,
but I was also very aware that what I studied
wouldn't necessarily result in a fruitful career
or at least one. That's what I thought 20 years
ago. But I find nowadays because of social media
and AI and all this stuff, it's actually, I think
now humanities graduates do pretty well. The
landscape changed. But I don't recall having
any peers that were engineers like that that
I hung out with. But I mean, everybody here in
the humanities. You're kind of not. Like you
were like a social pariah. Yeah. And scoffed
at. That was my undergrad. But my grad was a
different school. Great place. Loved it. They're
like science. What's that? Get out of here. And
you studied a whole bunch of... Whole bunch of
queer, queer color folk. Yep. And that's kind
of, kind of a lot of where... I found the comfort
in building now long. Friendship. Oh, you're
back. Yeah, sorry. I just received a phone call.
I told people not to bother me, but sometimes
people don't respect your time or your wishes.
You're just too popular. They're just my grandparents,
but yeah, I told them not to bother me. Invite
them on. Yeah, bring them on. They're South African
old people. They aren't suited for this type
of climate, I guess, if that makes sense. Yeah,
I mean, coming from conservative South Africa
myself. What about your relationship with, I
guess, cross -disciplinary students? The echo
kind of made that a bit difficult to understand.
Would you mind just repeating the question? Sorry.
Sure. I mean, it's your own question. You you
asked you asked us about The act relationship
Yeah, I don't I just I'm part of this like day
residence where it's just a bunch of like a group
of people that interact daily So we get to interact
with a bunch of different majors and stuff. So
it's just fun having a little rivalry between
the humanities and the stem students because
it's only with my friends, but They like to say
we have no emotional intelligence, and we like
to say they can't do math. So we just like to
playfully tease one another, I guess. Okay. That's
cool. Real simple. Ready? Cosplay or no cosplay?
Cosplay. Do I have to answer next? Nora, you
answer. Go! Like, cosplay or no cosplay? Like,
do I like cosplay? Yeah. Sure. Interpret however
you see fit. I've never done it, but I love it
when other people do it because they're so good
at it. Like, sometimes recently I saw this, like,
Springtrap cosplay with, like, the full animatronic
suit that they were able to, like, articulate
and move in. That's really cool. But personally,
I don't think I'd ever do it, if that makes sense.
I don't know if I could do it either. I mean,
I know people do it, but sometimes... Kind of
freaks me out, but that's just me. What can I
say? I love cosplay. I cosplay whenever I get
the opportunity. Whenever I get the opportunity.
I was bad a moment ago, but it's better now that
you're talking. Okay, yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay.
I'm going to move on to the next segment of today's
podcast and that is to share perspectives. And
honestly, I had such a great perspective lined
up while I was driving here today and I completely
forgot about it. So I'm going to bring it back
to my experience in something that I'm struggling
with right now. And that is this. live in China.
I have applied to have my gender name, gender
marker and name changed in South Africa and I
have spent close to a thousand RMB trying just
to call the Department of Home Affairs in my
country to find out if my changes have been done.
I have spent hours and hours on hold and my perspectives
is this. All phone calls should be free and all
telephonic companies should be government owned
and publicly sponsored. There should be no such
thing as a telecommunications company unless
you want to upgrade. Free phone calls internationally
for everyone. That's the only way that the future
happens. Okay. Not to a mad lot. No. Okay. Hi.
I'm trying to So, I mean, it'd be nice. Yes,
the phone companies are owned by China, but I
am not DHA. Okay. Change of my perspectives.
Governments should all have video IP services
to phone. What does it feel like? Voice over
IP. Should I explain? If you want. And I think
I also, I'm not completely sure. The technical
side of things has always eluded me. I am a biology
nerd through and through. All of this stuff about
like people talking about their computers and
stuff. It just flies over my head. Okay. As the
IT person then, voiceover IP means it's internet
phone. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's internet phone. Whenever
you phone someone with voice to like another
thing, it uses an IP address to route instead
of the conventional phone services. I'm all for
it. I don't know. My perspective on what you
said would kind of be like, because I feel like
as a South African, I kind of have a bit of a
more unique experience with the government side,
where if you leave anything to our government,
it probably isn't going to be that great. I mean,
our public health services, our train services,
or anything. So if I were to be in a country
where I know the government has low levels of
corruption, actually uses funds for what they
have to, then I would agree to that. But I don't
really trust my government to build the infrastructure
and maintain the infrastructure that would allow
these things to function. Happy. That is a super
valid point. It is. I think that what's happened
in South Africa is there has been such a focus
on, on companies doing it. We have, we have three
major companies. They're called Tolcom, Selsy,
MTN04, and Vodacom. These three companies are
partially government owned already, but they
are so corrupt. That Vodacom, for example, got
kicked out of Nigeria for overcharging for cell
phone services because they were just like, that
government there was, we're not having this.
Meanwhile, in South Africa, they are fleecing
us on prices to a degree that's just really not
acceptable. Think paying, I paid 2000 RMB or
a thousand RMB. That's about 2000 grand. Yeah
I came like like Maybe like a thousand rb a month
Just to use the phone Internet. I don't even
know they have you subscribe to As far as I know
it's packages that include the phone in the you
can't separate them. Even like television. Well,
you might just use it for two minutes. Of course,
there are smaller companies that try and circumvent
that. Like you pay 200 RMB a month for internet.
The viewers don't really understand that money,
do they, Ruby? 200 RMB a month is 400 Rand or...
30 US dollars. Yeah, 30 US dollars, which I think
is pretty cheap, pretty affordable for American.
Yeah, expensive. Anyway. Yeah. I kind of think
that's my whole perspective. It's not a great
one today. Don't admit it. Yeah, I don't, I'm
more so for, I guess, socio as like a socialist,
capitalist, make sure where we still have that
drive. to motivate people, but like a universal
basic income along with education, housing, food,
all of that stuff. So I apply that to a lot of
concepts in the sense of like what we were just
talking about, like it should be free. I believe
that everybody should have access to it, but
then you have taxes, for instance, that help
maintain the infrastructure. Like you're still
paying for it in some way. It's moderated by
a government body and not for a for -profit company.
Remind me, YouTube, South Africa. leans towards
socialism or capitalism? Socialism, I'd say socialism.
There you go. I mean, good, but also from what
you guys tell me, it's pretty corrupt. I guess
you can kind of think about it as pre -World
War II Russia or World War II Russia, where this
system was hijacked by a couple of corrupt companies
and driving it in a specific direction. that
nobody wanted. A little bit, yeah, but I kind
of think even though where we live is not communist
and neither is it purely socialist, there's a
lot of socialist policies here that work. And
the degree of capitalism is still being exploited
by, if you look at companies like Alibaba and
so forth. But the system really Kind of works.
I have no comment. If I could change one thing
about China, it would be censorship. Just give
me YouTube. Just give me uncensored internet.
Yeah, that'd be nice. And give me parties that
allow large groups of people to gather for a
specific purpose. That happens. Yeah. Unless
I just don't get out enough. Yeah, there aren't,
but there are no like pride martyrs or days dedicated.
Yeah, sure enough. Maybe someday, just in our
time. Oh yeah. I'm going to say like you're muted,
Luigi. So like I'm only hearing tidbits of your
conversation through Ray's microphone. I will
be mindful. Apologies. Here, I'll just keep it.
It's on all the time. Okay. I'll ask for authority
property. I have a question. That's a really
interesting question because it's really difficult
for me to say because with the like rise, like
far right rhetoric that is coming out, what I
mean by that is not like people being conservative.
I mean, the removal of certain groups, like minority
groups and marginalized groups, human rights,
in places I thought were completely safe from
that. It's a really difficult thing to think
about, but probably somewhere like Berlin or
somewhere in Sweden, something like that where
I know that my public services are going to be
good. And also I don't have to fear for my life
every time I go outside. But it's really difficult
to say because what I thought a few months ago
where I wanted to live is not where I think I
want to live now. So when I was a child, it was
America. Like America was like the place to be.
You know, like everybody, it was drilled into
you as a child. You need to get a good education,
get a job in America, if you're a South African,
and then go over there. Then it was Canada for
a bit, but kind of in all honesty, like both
of them are kind of falling apart, especially
America. And then, then it wasn't - What have
you heard? Then it was to the European side,
but then the whole, all of the housing and economic
issues that are coming up there. So probably
somewhere that's really queer -friendly now,
like Berlin. It was always like, a few months
ago, it was like, what do you call those countries?
Nordic country that are up there. But yeah, currently
it's mainly Berlin. Okay, so Germany has the
AFD. So, I mean, for me, the AFD is kind of scary.
thing if you if you had to ask me right now as
a transformer living in the world if i could
move back anywhere and not have a concern for
safety and where i felt kind of comfortable the
biggest issue is money like i need to have an
income that is going to sustain a certain level
of comfort and the ability to maintain medical
care um so If I could move somewhere, actually,
where I could be sure that I would have all of
those things, it would be South Africa, because
that's where I've been, where I've felt sent.
And then the other places are Thailand and China.
I don't have a context for the rest of the world,
but I know that they're increasing narrative.
My question is what about South Africa? How do
you feel living there? Do you fear for your life?
For the because you are Transgender or do you
fear for your life because it's a dangerous Less
so because of the meeting trans because we have
some of the most Not necessarily specifically
where I live, but South Africa has some really
great queer spaces. It's more so just like when
you start to fully pass and people view you as
a woman, now you become susceptible to the extremely
high femicide rates. And I don't know the level
of censorship, but there are some really horrible
things happening over here. Like about 11 women
die a day due to femicide, like just because
they're a woman. So like actually being trans
and passing. feels really, really dangerous given
how women are treated in this country. I feel
the same. I don't feel the same here. I feel
like China is the safest country I've ever walked
in. It's really interesting. I guess a really
interesting thing I've come across recently is
more so how I feel like, especially given the
current rise in right -wing rhetoric, I feel
like the people on the left should focus more
on being united than necessarily being like,
I am this person and I say this and this and
this and this. We should just be united for everybody's
human rights instead of being like, you are using
this term incorrectly or you are doing this incorrectly.
I feel like there's a larger threat that's coming
to a lot of our rights that isn't really being
talked about enough because I feel like the left
is very fragmented, whereas the right is very
united, if that makes sense. I hear what you're
saying. And as long as... So they can maintain
power. I think it's worse than that. Okay. I
think it comes from your right. Trans people
are constantly targeted and relentless in the
media. Even to the point where if you look at
How can I not remember? Rebecca Goode, who was
shot and killed three, four days ago by an ICE
agent. The next day, Jesse Wilson on Fox News
started off saying she was killed of, she had,
she used pronouns in her bio. She was lesbian.
She was married and had three kids. Yeah, to
a woman. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, but. The
narrative, the news that you tend to watch, the
reach is kind of partisan, neutral, to an extent,
but it's also poisoned by hiding the truth. Whereas
Fox News is just overtly hostile to the queer
community. And they have this benefit of a cult
following where they just... do and say what
they want. And it's purely about the hate. It's
not about, it's about hate and violence. Yeah.
And what I think what Nora is saying is there
is a problem on where a group of people, like
some lefties, they will obsess about doing things
right. As opposed to taking, saying like, look,
there's a, there's a minimum, there's a, there's
a bar that has been reached. And from now on,
we need to get shit down as opposed to focusing
on having it the way that we need to have it.
Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah, you're right. Yes. So
then how do you get those people who, how do
you get those people to like recognize that?
stopping in their own kind of like bubble of
rage. Wait, are we talking left or right? Let's
just say left for sake of art. Because some people
really want to just, it's more of, it's like
when a person drinks coffee in the morning, they
get really excitable. They don't understand that
it's the coffee making them really excitable.
And it's kind of like, so that's how I liken
it to those kinds of people who use that kind
or who get really What's the word? Okay, I think
you're really excited by getting to debate and
talk about things But it's not really paying
attention to the the real issues. Does that make
sense? Mm -hmm. I think be honest Am I explaining
myself clearly I think so you say I think so
means no, you don't know what I'm saying. So
Ruby your point was that yeah people now correct
me if I'm wrong people need to just Get over
there hang ups and just, you know, stick to the
real issues of like solving a problem, right?
I'll give you an example. Okay. I want to clarify
this, but yeah, give me an example. On the way
driving here today, I had, I was in a chapter.
Okay. And I was talking to people and somebody
mentioned that they were having a, they had a
problem. Yeah. They'd been assaulted. Okay. Let
me think about how I need to answer this. There
were two people there. answering the questions
and prescribing how this person who was assaulted
should feel over and over and over as opposed
to just letting that person talk. And with that,
I think there's another problem where, let's
say somebody misgenders me, right? I'm busy doing
something and they misgender me and I go, you
misgender me. And they go, oh shoot, I'm sorry.
I shouldn't have done that. I go, no, that's
fine. Let's carry on. And then a minute later,
they bring it up again, and then again, and then
again, because they carry this guilt for whatever.
As opposed to just moving on from this situation.
What do you think, Norah? Yeah, I've also experienced
that in a lot of queer spaces where people are
really, really worried and they constantly talk
about specific issues instead of moving on, I
guess, in the way that you've described it. But
I don't know, for me personally, if somebody
misgenders me or somebody makes a mistake and
you're like, hey, you did this, I didn't like
that, can we please not do that? And then they
don't do it anymore. For me, it's more about
not the mistake itself, but the effort afterwards.
Like, is this person... actually putting in the
effort. And that way I wouldn't mind, but also
constantly being forced to, I guess, not forced,
but having this person's guilt projected onto
yourself. It's a really difficult thing to deal
with because now you're apologizing, like it
feels like you're apologizing for making them
feel guilty. If that makes sense, if they're
like constantly projecting it onto you. Yeah.
And then there's the problem of where some people
might go and police. Like maybe, Luigi, you've
actually never done this, but let's say there's
this situation where you accidentally misgendered.
I can't imagine someone else policing you. That
would annoy you. Okay. I feel like we're diverging
at the original point and now we're talking about
something else. But yeah, it would annoy you.
Yeah, there's a problem of policing. Okay, so
then, are we saying the issue then is that, I
don't know anymore. We've gone off the rails.
What's the original point that we're trying to
make about the left? Too many different camps
on the left. Oh, so, okay, other people are policing
others on the right. And they're doing that by
saying things or by policing their their language,
their what? Their thoughts. Nitty is fractured
because people are too focused on being perfectly
unified. Is that it? Or are they too focused
on being too PC? The way I look at it is, is
that they're being too concerned too much with
political correctness. And that, the issue with
that is... It's the same cup. Stop! Stop! No!
No! You're ruining my train of thought! The issue
is... When you're trying to police others on
how to be it's a distraction from Actually solving
the problem. So if you're worried now, you're
looking at me like that smile like oh, you're
such an idiot I don't know. I don't know I was
right all along All right PC bath Yeah, all that
stuff. Wait, it's not important knowing which
dantic intellectual jargon Isn't the issue and
it's a distraction. But how do you convince people?
How do you stop those people from seeing red?
Let's say someone gets really mad that you called
a toilet a john and that's offensive and it should
be a water closet and they're so mad until you
check yourself. How do you get them out of that
frame of mind? Because my argument is that some
people are disingenuous and they like that kind
of state and it really gets them going. It's
like a form of like mental masturbation and that's
really what they're into. That's their king.
Not actually, you know, doing the work to solve
a real problem. Maybe they're afraid and they
think deep down inside. That's like their way
of distracting people from knowing their... I
don't know. So many possibilities. Help me out
ladies. I think personally that the real only
way to affect that in a meaningful way would
be to have like a greater mind shift, like a
frame shift of what it means to be a part of
the left and what it means to fight for human
rights and equality. It shouldn't be this like
nitpicky thing of getting everything right, but
making sure that, hey, everybody can live a normal
lifestyle without the fear of death or persecution.
I think that a mind shift is what's needed. and
like the greater left community. And yeah, that's
what I would say. I think a level of respect
being afforded to different perspectives with
the understanding that there is a line that cannot
be crossed, but also allowing interactions to
happen between people without interfering. like
with the trust that both of those people have
the intelligence to do that. And this is really
where the problem kind of manifests more than
it should. I don't know the answer is what I'm
trying to say. I know the answer based on my
opinion. They need to get over their silly PC
-ness. I don't know how to change people. No,
what I think is I think people can change. Okay.
Nora, do you see a lot of this in university
now? Like, do you see these kinds of people who
are like PC police policing others saying you
need to do this, but you can't say that. And
it's really not about the real issues. I think
it's less so an issue specifically with the people
I've met at university because of my country's
backgrounds, of me and Ray's country's background
with all the like the racism and everything.
People are still a lot more focused on actually
just being together and being a mixed country,
I guess, instead of a separated country. So there
are some people, but it's a lot less common than
what I would see from, let's say, on this court,
my American friends. We're way more focused on
just being a group of people together and being
harmonious than necessarily the PC bits. But...
Okay, go ahead, Remy. I want to say that a big
part of the war on PC... can be attributed to
American media manipulation because a lot of
the PC stuff stems from American news cycle.
I don't know. I'd have to do the research. I
don't know. Obviously this is not a scientific
opinion, but from what I see and feel anecdotally
is that The war on being politically correct
is fueled by American rage mongers like Donald
Trump, because nobody cares. I don't think Donald
Trump's politically correct. I don't think he
cares that he's politically correct. Yeah, he's
a rage monger. That's my point. Okay. He uses
an opinion that... has been scientifically settled.
For example, the trans sports event, right? Trans
people have been playing sports in the Olympics
for like 20, 30 years. Okay. Nobody's ever won
a medal, but somehow suddenly we're suddenly
stealing all of the medals. Right. So that like
topic that feels different is just being used.
Whereas before nobody actually cared. You're
right. Yeah. Yes, I agree with the nobody actually
cares, but it's it's oh, what's it called when
we do that? I don't know it's the the Getting
people to respond to their their feelings That
really prevents the the problem from being solved
that makes sense Talk amongst yourselves. Let
me think about this. I know what I'm saying,
but I don't know what I'm saying I'm gonna mute
you for a while Nora. Tell me what you think
A little tangent about the sports thing, I was
on the fence about it in terms of the actual
science. Because in certain sports, having a
certain bone structure or bone density, whatever
it may be, can technically give you an advantage.
But then I started HRT. And the things I was
able to do, they're not possible anymore. Picking
up the water jug and putting it back on top of
the water cooler, I went from a one -hand thing
of just like... it's like 40 -ish pounds. Like,
picking it up with one hand, lifting it over
my hand, just putting it on to, okay, it's on
my legs, it's on my chest, let's go up, and then
we put it down. Because it's like, it's such
a, like, after personally experiencing it, I
really don't see how that would affect us. And
also, aren't a lot of transfemes testosterone
levels just lower than a lot of natural fems,
especially if you're still on, like, a higher
dose of Spiro? Like, the normal aren't just,
like, 50 -ish? where most people are below that
like the 20s or the 30s. Yeah there's a few factors
here that you mentioned and you're right testosterone
puberty results in a thicker butt structure and
testosterone supports muscle mass but once you
switch over muscle mass ligament all soft tissues
start changing over time and when you are when
you have potentially this marginally thicker
bone structure because let's be honest it's not
the difference between like titanium and aluminum
it is the difference between like kinds of hardwood
that you find in the wild different trees it's
not it's not pine and oak it's more like oak
and red wood, if there is a difference. I'm using
this analogy, I don't know anything about wood,
but the bottom line is a thicker bone structure
with equal muscle mass, or even if some of the
muscle mass is retained with exercise, so that
makes it genetic, that can be a disadvantage.
Here I am now with maybe equal muscle mass, but
thicker bones. So on surfing sports, that's not
going to be an advantage as all, for example,
my muscles are working harder. And then from
my own anecdotal experience, I used to be much
stronger than I am now. I could easily deadlift
a hundred and not easily. I could get up to 185
kilograms. That is much more than most cis men.
Um, my partner, who is a cis woman. can now lift
more than me no matter how hard I try. I bench
50, she benches 75. That being said, she is a
personal trainer. However, as a person with a
personal trainer, as a life partner, I also train
and I have a bench press in my house and I'm
still not stronger. Like it's not an innate thing.
So that was a long tangent there. A long aside.
Can I talk now? Can you unmute me? Okay, so talk
about your Trump point again. What did you say
Trump does? Trump? Fear mongers. Okay, fear mongers.
And why does he do that? to feel and unify people
that are slightly out of touch with a certain
topic. So he's cultivating, he's cult -avating.
He's creating a cult. Yeah, I guess so. Well,
no, I know what you're saying. So the point I
wanted to say was that he's using feelings. He
wants to appeal to people's feelings. I have
an interesting tidbit about do your own research.
I have some - Oh yeah? I'm sorry. No, an interesting
tidbit, which I think kind of sort of relates
to this, but where people are always like, no,
do your own research. I personally don't think
that people, the laymen, should be doing their
own research. Like, as somebody who's actively
in university and learning how to do research,
it's like you can look at research, but you're
not technically researching. You're doing the
first steps of researching. You're gathering
the information. We spend years learning how
to isolate our variables, how to manage your
confounding variables, your nonsense variables,
how to set up an experiment and actually test
something for what it is. So it's like... I don't
know, it's more a semantic thing, I guess, of
like, go look at research and then make an informed
opinion about it. But by definition, like I wouldn't
necessarily say anybody's like, like the layman
isn't really doing their own research, if that
makes sense. It's just like a little semantic
tip about being in STEM. Yeah, true. I would
argue that true objectivity is impossible for
humans because we are subjective beings who view
the world through our own biases and lenses.
But that's why the scientific process is so great
because it's repeatable. You know, it's multiple
different people can do the same experiment and
you can still find the same. You don't have to
be like a biologist or a physicist to do experiments
like people in humanities, like psychology. They
also do really valid and good experiments. that
are repeatable and testable. And that's kind
of the way we subvert our biases and our own
conclusions to be closer to the truth is by basically
just doing a bunch of repetition. about this
specific thing we were talking about. But just
like one last thing, because I'm in behavioral
genetics, a lot of my modules and areas of studies
are also focused in the psychology field. So
how we would do qualitative research in the psychology
field would be, like you said, we just talk to
people. Normally, the more people you get, and
the more responses you get, the more validated
your research is. by means of expanding your
database and getting an average. But that's not
really speaking to, cause I don't really think
objective morality or objective, like an objective
way of learning exists. So when answering these
types of questions, like I really don't feel
like there is going to be a scientific way to
answer these questions because they're subjective
questions. Like this question changes from person
to person. So it's... I agree in your sentiment
in that it's really difficult for these types
of issues to objectively be able to convince
somebody of a specific issue. Instead of like,
you're forced to go for an emotional appeal.
I was just doing the little thing, but no, I
think for me, it's mainly that, especially with
the older ones, the operative change in the narrative
can only happen through a man. With Princess
and the Frog, it's a bit different. Moana, it's
a bit different. But like with especially the
older ones, like Snow White, Cinderella, the
operative change has to happen through a man.
Like she isn't really, she's a hard worker, but
It's happening through What I mean is from a
narrative standpoint like she's lost on her own
or she's struggling on her own and instead of
overcoming that personal tyranny that subverted
by The Prince Charming coming in and swooping
her and taking her away from her situation There's
a lot less character growth and a lot less fighting,
I guess, especially with the older ones than
with the newer ones who have more of an actual
negligible effect on the plot, like on the narrative
of the story, if that makes sense, if I'm communicating
properly. This is a really interesting topic
like especially with I would say a character
that I could point to that I'd be like that is
a few a strong female lead that Still has a romantic
interest and it's not defining her personality
But also is a strong warrior would be like Katara
from Avatar the Last Airbender Like she's a strong
independent woman that has operative on the narrative
But she still has a love interest So I would
like to see media moving more towards women as
people and less women as like a damsel in distress
or like basically character like, how do you
say that in English? Like archetyping women in
a very, I need help kind of way. Instead of,
I don't maybe know what I'm doing, but I have
the capacity to learn and to grow, I guess is
what I'm seeing with a lot of media and women.
Yeah, it's good that. Recently, it's come up
more, like we're getting more actual characters
out of like females. Yeah, I love Katara. Katara,
I think, is a really great example of a strong
female main character. Oh, no, I think you're
thinking about Cora. But yeah, Cora was, yeah.
Ooh, why? Yeah, yeah, she she does mean and this
is what's really cool about her. She's allowed
to have a romantic relationship Without it defining
character development or her I guess combat ability
in air quotes Like she's a formidable fighter
and a strong woman But still allowed to have
caring side and a loving side with the blood
specifically, like when she was forced to use
it on the person that taught her that, to save
Ang and something, like she was crying. She was
disgusted. She never wanted to use that ever
again because of just how like, like violating
it is to the other person. So like she still
has her values. in the sense of valuing autonomy
and valuing other people. But in a certain situation,
it's like when you're forced to defend yourself,
I guess, like you can still value human life,
but want to defend your own life, I guess. Yeah
to talk about and like talk with especially if
they're like pretty much similar to me because
I have gotten these these remarks before about
the way I speak The way I like to communicate
my inner thoughts, so that would be really interesting
I think Kaptara is a great, like the question
would be, is Kaptara from Avatar the Last Airbender
a well -written female character in this sense
of communicating aspects of humanity while still
having a strong feminine base? and unmute myself.
And then I will run the closing. This has been
Kaleidoscope. I am Ruby Ray. Today I was joined
with Nora, a behavioral biologist from South
Africa and my lovely co -host, Joiji. You can
find Kaleidoscope on YouTube at Echo Embers or
sorry, Echo Perspectives at Echo Perspectives.
You can find more of me at ruby r -a -e -d on
YouTube, my other personal channel. You can find
both of those things on Instagram at fire from
heat and on TikTok, heat from fire. If you don't
know, that is a trans voice training phrase from
a poem from a very famous transgender voice trainer
who has unfortunately passed. That's dear. It's
heat from fire, fire from heat. Thank you so
much for watching. Please answer the question.
What's her name? Katara. Is Katara a good female
character while representing facets of humanity,
having a love interest, while still maintaining
feminine ideals? I'll clarify that in the question.
Give us your answer. Yes or no? I love you. Do
you guys want to say goodbye? Bye!