Good evening. Welcome to Kaleidoscope. My name
is Ruby Ray Liu. And today I am joined by founder
of SoulFam Hostel, Chase King, a great hostel
in Cape Town that I had the privilege of staying
at a few months ago, and my co -host, Luigi.
This is Kaleidoscope. perspectives beyond the
surface. I am what happens when you practice
touch typing too much on the keyboard and stumble
onto some websites about podcasting. Chase. That's
it. Finished. I'm finished. Yeah. I'm not sure
how there's to connect. Okay. I don't know if
my intro is going to be as clever as yours, but
what I will say is that I'm really excited to
be here and thank you for inviting me to Kaleidoscope.
So a bit about me. So as you mentioned, I'm the
founder of SoulFam Hostel and it's the first
LGBTQ plus inclusive hostel in Africa. And it's
something that's very near and dear to my heart.
And I created this space because I wanted to,
you know, create a space that was based on chosen
family and inclusive and makes people feel seen
and welcome. And so I feel like I get to achieve
that every day and I connect with the most amazing
people from all over the world. And I really
feel proud to have created a safe space in Cape
Town. So thank you for having me. You definitely
did achieve that for sure. Thank you for that
lovely introduction. Yeah, that was a really
good intro. Well. Hello, I'm Luigi porn futurist
me Ruby discussed this title before the show
and She declares she says now I Swear, it's something
that's real, but everyone but but according to
the internet. It's not So Ruby says it's some
weird Mandela effect, but I swear to God porn
futurism is real. Whatever it is I'm just trying
to sound smart academic Please explain because
Okay, wait, let's give chase it an opportunity
based on what you've heard so far chase What
do you think porn futurism is? Yeah, I'm trying
to wrap my head around it. I Don't quite understand
what I had It sounds really smart doesn't it?
Well, I said it has nothing to do with porn But
I really I thought I thought I could just defer
to the internet for the explanation. No such
thing. Futurism, though, was a movement in like,
I don't know, maybe the 60s? No, not that far
back. Further back, sorry. Like in the early
1900s, futurism was the movement. But I swear,
within that movement, one artist said he was
a porn futurist. Or maybe I read it somewhere.
And it's just so archaic and so cool. And so
academic the internet can't even find it not
even chat GPT could tell me what porn futurism
is So it's about art It's about like it sounds
like Sounds really hokey. Like everything you'd
think it is is like just like just going into
the future like Nice sound really silly It's
an avant -garde movement And it's about, like,
just going for it, you know? Hating everything
old. That's it. Okay. You know, screw traditions.
I want porn in the future. Everything is about
for me. I want sex with robots. That's what porn
future is. Okay. Have you ever heard of it? Anything
like this, Jay? Never now, but it sounds really
interesting now. I'm starting a movement. Futurism
is real though. Futurism is real. I don't know
if there's anyone in particular that said porn
futurism. I have a question then for everybody.
Part of the quick fire round that we have. If
you have only 10 seconds to respond. If we start
with Luigi, we'll go to Chase and then finish
with me. If you had a art exhibition, what would
you call it? Ten seconds. You have ten seconds.
Luigi, you're first. Oh, I'm first. I thought
you were first. Well, then I'd call it porn futurism.
I'd call it sex with robots. Sex with robots.
What about you, Chase? It would just be a ripoff
of... What's that guy's name? Is it Peter Nagel
or Patrick Nagel, that artist from the 70s? who
made all those futuristic, sexy robots. Dude,
just be ripped off with that. That's what it
is. That's it. Can't be any more creative than
that. Not in 10 seconds. My brain can't function.
What about you, Jay? I'm curious. I think for
me, I would go with something that's, you know,
probably just more straightforward and simple.
I call it queer joy, because that's the art in
my hostel already, is it represents... There
you go. queer joy, queer identity, so the guests
can see themselves in the art when they come
and stay here and they feel represented and seen.
And it's a way for me to show that I see you,
I empathize with you, I welcome you. So that's
the kind of goal of the art in the hostel currently.
I would call mine lipstick silhouettes. And I
would just go around putting lipstick on all
sorts of people and taking like really sensual
photos of their lips. and printing them out.
And then it will be like an exploration of identity
through lipstick. So the art would be like pictures
of their lips with lipsticks? With lipstick on
them? Exactly. Yeah. Sometimes it will be like
bad lips or yeah. That's actually a really good
idea. I won't be surprised if someone somewhere
has already done it. But if not. Maybe. Ruby,
get on that. Just make it happen. Sure. Chase,
do you have a quickfire question for us before
we dive into the more meaty stuff? Quickfire
question. Hmm. So it's funny, actually, we do
a really cool event every Wednesday called Q
&A, and I wrote the questions myself. And so
one of the questions that I find that's always
interesting is if you were a cent, What would
I smell when I walk by you? Love it. No, that's
a great question, because I know what I want
to smell. I get a lot of abstract answers to
this question, so it's very interesting what
people say. What's the weirdest answer you've
gotten? I think something food -related, like...
Breakfast or something like that. How is this?
Like that's not where I was going, but great.
Baked beans and ketchup. Yeah, it could be. Yeah.
Pretty strange. Spaghetti and meatballs. That's
not what I want. I don't want to smell like that.
No, if, is it what you see? Hey, Italian vibe.
Right. Now, but okay, is it about what they want
to smell like or what they think they'd smell
like? I think that they answer more so in terms
of what they want people to smell like so what
they want to give off So yeah, I can I can I
can talk about my favorite scent I've ever worn
and that I cannot recapture And it was some lotion
that I bought from some shop in New York a long,
long time ago. Because in another life, I was
selling natural beauty products. And one of the
scents was of wormwood. And it was the most amazing
scent to me. And I loved it so much. And they
discontinued it. And to this day. Like I still
want that scent and like if I ever found it That's
all I would ever want to smell like that one
particular scent of warm wood. So like absent
is The other like that's what absence made from
warm wood. So it's got this I don't know how
to describe this smell Nice, so if anyone's ever
smelled it, they know It's kind of what? What
emotion what emotion would I feel? like smelling
Absent or warm wood like what would I feel when
I smell that? It's a good question. I can't speak
for other people, but when I wore it, I just
felt attractive. The scent makes me attractive.
I felt like this scent makes me attractive. Makes
me, you know, seem clean and manly. But it wasn't
one of those overbearing, like musky man smells.
Like men often wear perfume that's like musk.
And like musk, I think, is too strong. I hate
it. So, like I really like, I feel like men...
on the topic of scents. Men don't have a lot
of scents that are like oriented towards like
fruit and spices like women's and I find those
scents are a lot more pleasant and smell a lot
more clean. So like why can't a man, but like
when a man has to smell, he's got to smell like
really heavy, like again musk or like woody.
But the, the absence smell, it was like that,
but not so much. So, I mean, I would rather smell
like, you know, eucalyptus and like lemons and
stuff and oranges and lavender and like jasmine.
That's another thing. You sound like a yeti sub
commercial. Do you remember those? Yeah, but
I know it. They still sell it. Like when I go
back home in the summer and I'm in the grocery
store, those Yeti soap bars are still there.
Every kind of soap maker makes the same sense.
Like mint, eucalyptus, you know, whatever else.
So like I guess I kind of defer to mint and eucalyptus
if I can. Like those are the only kind of light
scents left for men. But I wish you two could
smell that. I tend to go to like the stores.
Okay, so in... And maybe Chase knows this too.
So there are stores like Marshall's. Do you know
what Marshall's is? Yeah. Big store that does
fast fashion, whatever. Everything's sold there.
So makeup, whatever. And so I go to the section
with like the makeup and the body creams for
like the women and I look at their bars and they
have like, you know. vanilla orange and I just
smelled it and I'm like, yes, I want to wash
in this. I don't want to wash in like the manly
musky soap bars. Fair. My scent, my scent would
be like orange zest with cinnamon and crushed
vanilla with just like a hint of freshly cut
pine. Wow, that's so specific. They're like,
he's just sitting like, the pine's really nice.
Yeah. I could talk about scents forever. Now
I'm just, before today, before I came home, I
went to a coffee shop to get beans and I wanted
to get more espresso beans. And then I saw like
the espresso beans were there. This is espresso.
And I'm like, I know I need this cause my machine
is an espresso machine. So I got to get the beans,
but it said like plum, like sugar plum and. smoked
vanilla. And I was just thinking like, well,
if anybody knows what a sugar plum is, it's not
really a fruit. It's like hard candy. There's
no scent there. And then the other one was like
Christmas blend, where it was like, it said spice
chocolate. And I was like, yeah. But then it
said, like, I don't know, like pine needles.
And I was like, that's it. That's the one. Like
even if it's not espresso, well, it's going through
my espresso machine. I might hate it, but those
scents. are what sold me. It's gonna be good,
yeah. It's gonna be fine. I like pine because
it makes me feel like it's got that, like...
The scents I described are fresh and they have
a homey, like, cottage feel. And that's what
I like. No, I'm gonna sound really like a bumpkin,
but do they have pines in South Africa? Yeah,
of course. I know I don't know what this like
I think pines. I just think of like the Americas
Sorry, I'll be back Prove we got a delivery Probably
they don't they bear they don't really when you
request something they might take your request
Otherwise, they're just gonna like bang on your
door And then say come and get it or they don't
listen. They're just so rushed to deliver yeah,
so it's so funny feeling funny how you both answered
because You guys both answered kind of more literal
in terms of like an actual scent, but oftentimes
the responses I get are, I want them to smell
confidence, or I want them to smell to peel,
or I want them to smell warmth, you know, like
more abstract things. Yeah. Well, that's why
I asked, you know, why people wanted like actual
scents they wanted to smell like, or what they
want them to smell. For sure. How do you, but
how do you smell those, like what does confidence
smell like? It's something you see. I don't know.
Walk, walk by me, Luigi, and you'll smell it.
Pheromones sweat. Yeah. I mean, there really
is a lot of science behind that, you know, like
pheromones, like you're attracted to a person's
pheromones and it's really fascinating in terms
of just like attraction, you know, like there's
a whole science behind it. Right. Yeah, and I
think that's the other thing too perfume can
kind of like skew that Let's say attraction because
because if it is all pheromones do the pheromones
come through, you know shielding them With perfume
or covering them with perfume and then is that
like an honest? Assessment or is that a kind
of like seduction or manipulation? Yeah, and
that's the funny thing is I feel like the joke
is on us because we already have natural pheromones
that attract a mate and So we're actually cutting
up our natural gift to attract the right person
and so but I think we've all been conditioned
to think that you know These scents make us more
attractive, but really our natural scent is the
most attractive. Yeah That's a really good point
I'm not gonna bathe anymore. I've decided Oh
my god, no. I wouldn't recommend that. I can
get away with it. You have a naturally nice scent
when you don't bathe. I always wonder, I always
wonder, like, do I smell to people? We all have
our own smells. But, you know, I'm always wondering,
am I smelly today? What do people think? You
smell good. Thanks. Thanks, Ruby. I try not to
smell people. Well, to your mate, you smell irresistible.
But to your non -mate, your non -soulmate, you
smell smelly. Yeah, you could look at it like
that. Like, you know, you could write poems for
a person that is attracted to you and they'll
love the poem. And the person that isn't, they'll
call the cops. There you go, that's all the context.
That's funny. All right, here we go. Do you have
a quick -fire question for us? If I did, I forgot
it. It was just, we just dived into so many interesting
things. Okay. No, I got to think of one. No idea.
No, but this scent thing was a good warm -up.
Fair enough. Glad you enjoyed the question. I
mean, I could keep talking about it. Yeah, it
was excellent. Ruby, do you have one? Now you're
going to have to come back, because I want to
know every single question you've written down
for Wednesday. Yeah, there's so many and they're
really like meant to be just like not normal
questions just to make people have fun with it
and be playful and You know, the discussion doesn't
have to be so serious. And so that's kind of
the goal Yeah, one of my biggest regrets this
last time when I went to South Africa, I don't
regret things right? It's not something it's
not how I live my life. It's not a mantra I follow
but I wish I had stayed at SoulFam Hostel longer
in Cape Town. Yeah, that would have been lovely,
honestly. And what's great about SoulFam now
is it's sort of transitioned into a community
space now. So now, oftentimes, what ends up happening
is because we're so full, its previous guests
will ask to come just to hang out, you know?
And so, kind of my way of just... keeping the
doors open, even for people who can't stay as
long and still want to be part of the vibe. Yeah.
Do you think the guests come to hang out just
because the place is just so, so amazing? They
can't afford it. Yeah. That's what I mean. You
say people come back. Like, I don't want to stay
the night. I just really like the place. Do you
sell coffee there? You should just turn it into
so many things. There must be a coffee shop in
it. No, there isn't I think honestly what it
is is they want to stay but because we're sold
out The next best thing is to just come and hang
out with the fam but I think it's because they
honestly really feel connected to the people
here and so You know when you're a queer traveler
and you're a solo traveler and you're looking
for community and you don't you want to just
have to go to the bars and clubs or use the apps.
Sometimes it's nice just to go to a space that
you know is going to be accepting and open and
you're going to have people who like truly value
and want to connect with you. So I think that's
kind of what it's become for people. I was telling
Luigi before I came on one of the like I was
blown away searching on on Airbnb for a place
to stay and I typed in like queer, LGBTQ, and
suddenly there's this hostile that like unabashedly
just goes, yes, pro, safe space, chosen family.
And it was like a no brainer. It made me feel
so much relief. And then going there and the
whole vibe was just so welcoming. And Luigi,
there's like this huge. a horseshoe kitchen and
it was like one point, I think it was like 12,
30 a .m. in the morning and all of us were just
standing there. I was, and just having a chat.
It was amazing. So I think it represents to me
what hostels, all hostels want to be. And that's
awesome. That's beautiful. Thank you for that.
Yeah, it sounds, it sounds like - Yeah, that's
my review. I mean, yeah, it sounds great. Right.
And yeah, I ignorantly said to Ruby like, Oh,
aren't all hostiles by default? Aren't all places
by default LGBTQ, you know, like wouldn't they
just allow them anyway? Why would it be an issue?
That's my bad cisgender male brain asking these
questions. No, I think, no, you know what? I
don't think it's that. I think it's an ally brain
because because to people who are allies, they
just don't, it doesn't make sense. Like the exclusion
doesn't make sense. So. Yeah. And I think, I
think also too, I think hostiles like by default
have a diversity policy, meaning that they tolerate.
people from different backgrounds, but they don't
necessarily go out of their way to make them
feel welcome and that they belong. And I think
that's the difference between diversity and inclusion.
Yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah, most
hostels are diverse, but they're not inclusive.
And so I think... They think that by just simply
saying that we're LGBTQ friendly, that that makes
them inclusive. But no, like actually, you know,
taking time to understand the queer community
and our needs and taking steps to make us feel
welcome and creating events that allow people
to connect, that's inclusion. And so that's kind
of what we practice here at SoulFam. For sure.
And I think that's a really good segue into...
what Kaleidoscope is meant to be, perspectives
beyond the surface of what we think or see. And
I would like to invite either one of you to share
the first perspective. I know Luigi likes to
go last. Chase, would you like, do you have,
I have a lot of questions for you, but I'm wondering,
do you have a perspective that you would like
to share on Kaleidoscope or would you like me
to lead? I'm happy for you to lead. Okay. I'll
start it off. This is the first time in my new
studio. It's still being unpacked. I've recently
moved and one of the things that has changed
for me in this move is realizing that sometimes
we, and it's crazy that like this made me realize
it, that sometimes we let things hold us back
because of what we think we are okay with. and
people don't go for the thing that they really
want because they think that they are okay. I
thought I was okay with my previous apartment
and it was right next to this main road. The
move was a disaster. It did not go as planned.
But now in here, even when everything was a mess
and before anything was packed out, I felt a
sense of PTSD from not hearing constant traffic
noise. And I've been sleeping better, but while
you were there, my brain just shut it out. So
that's my perspective. Awareness of your surroundings
and breaking the Plato's cave, so to speak, of
exploring other surroundings and going, hey,
this is better. And then not doing that for yourself
is a mistake. Always go for what you need. I
don't know. Always take risks. Yeah. Like push
yourself to grow. But this wasn't a risk, right?
Like I didn't take any risks. I just avoided.
You wanted to change. Yeah. I don't know what
I did. Yeah. Well, you needed to move and you
wanted to move. But sometimes we're so comfortable
or you could say, I'll say this for the sake
of argument, happy in our misery that. You know
change is really really tough and stressful and
overwhelming So even if our lives are bad, this
is what I hear and I mean, I'm sure I'm probably
one of these people even if your conditions are
bad, they're familiar and That's why it's so
difficult to change because maybe what's out
there it could be better it but it could be worse
and Maybe that's why people don't want to take
the risk. But I think it's more just they're
just so comfortable with you know, what's familiar.
You know, they say people are creatures of habit.
So that's why it's so difficult to change. I
mean, there's just so much knowledge on this
subject, but I find it interesting that you were
affected by the lack of traffic. Maybe it became
like a kind of white noise for you. I was telling
someone today that when I wake up in the morning,
like I remember my last apartment, it was just
dead quiet. And I loved waking up in the morning
to just silence. And now, when I came here, I
was dreading all the traffic. And when I wake
up in the morning, I can hear the tram. And it's
this like hum. But that's like white noise now
that I look forward to in the morning. So, yeah,
we freak ourselves out. But then, when the change
happens, it was interesting how we adapt and
maybe it's not as bad as we. I think a tram is
more predictable, though. A tram's noise is more
predictable and kind of soothing. Yeah, well,
yeah, absolutely. That's for sure. But traffic,
just like what? What about you, Chase? Like,
I'm not sure exactly if I may be so bold. Like,
I remember you telling me a story about getting
kind of stuck in Cape Town. and then making the
choice to move and start this awesome hostel.
What was that like for you? Yeah, no, it's interesting
because I think I, and this kind of ties into
what you were saying earlier about like not going
after what you want. So I think, you know, I
knew that I wanted to be in hospitality probably
two decades ago. But I think what held me back
was this, like, lack of confidence and, like,
fear of failure. And I think that that becomes
sort of stifling for a lot of people in terms
of just going after their dreams, trying to pursue
what makes them happy. And so, so I think for
me, last year, I just made the decision to just
get out of my own way and just stop making excuses
for not doing what I know I love to do and not
living my purpose. And, you know, when you find
your purpose, you're gonna feel it in your bones,
you're gonna feel it in your soul that this is
what you're meant to do. I think now that I've,
you know, finally made the decision to go on
this journey and to go for it knowing that there's
very few spaces like this that I can even speak
to someone else about in terms of like, well,
how was your journey? How did you create a space
like this? You know, I kind of had to just sort
of stay in my lane and just... do what I felt
like queer community wanted and what would sort
of benefit them. And I just followed my heart
and my intuition and my gut. And it's a very
liberating experience when you take the risk,
you take the leap of faith, and you just go for
it. And you don't worry about the outcome. You
just stay present and stay passionate and curious.
Um, so for me, it's, this year has probably been
the most, um, I guess, revelatory year for me
in terms of just my resilience and my ability
to just, you know, take huge risk. So, um, yeah,
so I think, um, I really sort of reflect and
think about like how the world would be if people
just got out of their own way and just did. the
things that their hearts were telling them to
do. I think that people would feel much more
fulfilled and find a much deeper sense of happiness
and purpose in their lives. Yeah. Can I ask a
question? Ruby, can I ask a question? This might
sound, I don't know, this might sound silly.
You might think that's a dumb question, but so
why South Africa? Were you just passing through?
No, so I actually discovered South Africa 15
years ago. I studied abroad here when I was a
junior in college. And so it was the first country
I went to outside of the states and it just,
it made a huge impact on me. And so that's kind
of what started this whole journey was that sort
of moment in my college experience. And then,
and then like I said, it took, it took up until
now, for me to finally execute a dream that I
had many, many years ago. Wow. I didn't expect
such a well -thought -out decision for the place.
Because for me, listen, I didn't even know South
Africa was a place until I started living and
working in China and interacting with South Africans.
That's how inexperienced I am, but from what...
I've learned about it from Ruby, it is, it's
just like a really, in terms of LGBTQ +, it's
a really tough place. But again, I could be wrong.
I mean - It depends on where you are for sure.
Yeah. And so to do what you're doing, like super
brave, super admirable, I think. So like, I'm
just wondering, were you, so, and your hostel
is the first of its kind. So was that an idea
that just came to you or were there other hostels
in other parts of the world that did that? Again,
I'm not very well traveled. I don't know. Yeah,
so I think it was a combination of things. I
think I lived as a digital nomad for seven years
and so I was constantly, you know, moving from
country to country. two months here, three months
there, two months there. And what I realized
during that whole journey is how difficult it
was to find community as a queer traveler. And
so for me, it kind of came from my lived experience.
I'm like, okay, if I'm experiencing this as a
queer traveler, I'm sure there's other travelers
as well who find it very difficult to meet people
and to connect beyond the kind of typical venues
that we're you know, having to subscribe to,
which is, you know, bars and apps and things
of that nature. So that was part of it. The other
part was that I did discover a town very near
and near to my heart in Mexico called Zipolite.
And it's a very interesting place. It's very,
very queer, very bohemian, nudist kind of vibes.
And I remember staying in a hostel or like a
kind of a guest house hostel kind of hybrid place.
And it was for queer. It was for queer people.
And it was the first time that I had experienced
being in an environment that felt like chosen
family. Like I felt like I effortlessly made
friends in that environment. I met people who
were like -minded and shared my sort of energy
and vibe. And so that was kind of one of my initial
inspirations, was just experiencing that kind
of environment. I was like, oh, wow, I would
love to recreate this type of environment in
K -Town. So, it was very cool. What was the scariest
part for you? Like making that decision, going
from, it's LA, right? Well, I moved to Washington
DC, but I'm originally from Los Angeles. Yeah.
Ah, okay. Okay, so... the scariest part about
going to Cape Town, because I have to admit,
from the perspective of a South African, and
that's changed drastically in the past couple
of years, to the point of another story that
I would like to share in a little bit. But I
would never have been able to conceive of someone
coming from a country that is more financially
stable and developed to move to South Africa.
Now, I can definitely see why and how. But what
was that for you? Yeah, no, it's a good question.
I think for me, that early experience study abroad
in Cape Town, what it taught me was that it's
important to provide, provide spaces like especially
for queer people, where there's lacking. I think
US and Europe has tons of infrastructure for
queer people. There's tons of hotels, bars, you
name it, organizations, meetups. And so for me,
I've always been drawn to places that didn't
have resources or that lack infrastructure. Because
then it's like you're building, you're creating,
you're expanding. you're not just adding to like
the noise that's already there. And so for me,
I think it's just more exciting of a journey
to challenge yourself and to, you know, to create
something that, you know, doesn't exist in a
particular location rather than, you know, just
being another bar or another hotel or another
whatever in a queer friendly place, you know,
so. So that's kind of the thing. Yeah, I think
it's a great feeling to blaze trails. For sure.
I could see why you do it. Yeah, absolutely.
Kaleidoscope has a... Has a what? Go ahead, Rui.
Has a five -year plan, Chase. Does it? Yeah,
I would like for Kaleidoscope to become part
of your weekly process at SoulFam because in
the next five years, we want to open a bar in
Cape Town for comedy events and art and live
podcast recordings here. That'd be amazing. That's
so cool. To do that, I've registered it. It's
going to be a brand house, but we're starting
with Ember Jewelry and it's going to be selling
queer jewelry in South Africa and growing from
there. That's beautiful. I love that you're going
on that journey. It's not for the faint at heart,
you know, is what I always tell, you know, people
who go on this entrepreneurial journey because
it's just filled with so many ups and downs and
surprises. But at the end of the day, it's what's
exciting, you know, to experience that. Chase,
ever have any, like, was there ever any people
who antagonized you when you decided to do this?
You know, everyone's already supportive. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. No, I get it all the time, actually.
So, it's interesting. So, a story that I don't
often tell people is that when I first started
SoulFam, I actually found a location for the
hostel in a neighborhood in Cape Town called
Boca, which I'm sure Ray or Ruby knows that it's
quite conservative. It's actually the Muslim
neighborhood in Cape Town. And... Wow. I naively
thought, well, of course, you know, even though
it's a conservative area, I thought of Cape Town
as this, you know, oasis of progression in Africa.
And so I didn't even think much of it. And so
when I found the property and I signed the lease
and I decided to, you know, open the hostel,
I actually got contacted by an influencer, local
influencer in Cape Town. And we created a post
on social media. And because he has such a huge
following, the postman viral, and it got back
to the local community that I was creating this
LGBTQ plus inclusive hostel. And there was a
huge backlash against it. Basically, just to
make a long story short, the landlords canceled
my lease and forced me out of the property. The
landlord also got death threats and just all
kinds of hate for even allowing me to occupy
that space. And it was just very clear from the
local community that they did not want us there.
So I decided to take the high road and, you know,
I kind of bowed out gracefully and it actually
worked out in the end because I felt the location
that we have now is a hundred times better and
way more safe, way more inclusive. But yeah,
but also when I post on social media, I get all
kinds of, you know, comments about, you know,
ignorant comments about this being a sex house
or this being a brothel, because people automatically
assume anything queer is sex related. But like
I said, I think it doesn't really phase me. I
know that people speak from their own ignorance,
and so I don't take it personal. And to be in
this kind of business, you have to have tough
skins. You just let people be where they are.
So yeah, that was kind of my initial experience.
But now it's a lot, I would say, not a lot of
hate really. It's such an odd thing for me because
I am unabashedly a sexual being. But at the same
time, I'm also just a human and queer and also
a teacher. So all of these things can combine
and be easily compartmentalized. Adults are humans,
are sexual beings, right? And this is something
that we all do and for us to have frank discussions.
don't really like to mix the term normalized
into this because it sets people that are ignorant
and phobic off on a tangent of kids are being
evolved or whatever. And it's just wild to me
that it always goes there. It always goes to
the worst kind of imaginative. BS about what
might happen behind something that closed doors
where people have no idea. Yeah. Absolutely.
And I think it just reveals where people are
at just mentally in terms of what they think
about our community, in terms of, you know, preconceived
notions they have about queer people and our
culture. And I mean, just the other day, there
was a guy who came by the hostel and I didn't
think anything of it. People come by the hostel
all the time asking for tours because they're
curious, you know, because we're a new hostel.
And it's turned out that his whole intention
was to find a hookup at my hostel. He was married
to a woman and then he was trying to find someone
here that he could, you know, have some fun with.
So again, I think it's just people's reptilian
brain when it comes to queer. Yeah, it always
goes to like the lowest common denominator And
they never sort of acknowledge or realize that
what we're doing is so much bigger than that
Not that there's anything wrong with sex or any
of that But it's just it's just not the foundation
of soul fam, and it's not the most important
thing about our mission Right, of course Yeah,
I listen I don't I hate I hate to pry but for
the sake of entertainment. How did that man or
person find out like how did he come in and then
realize oh that doesn't happen here. I mean I
think it's good he had that experience because
then if anything he might tell someone like the
world might know that isn't what happens at that
place and it's better than someone never coming
and and not having the experience I think but
anyway. Yeah. How did he figure it out? He could
not have explicitly asked. Well, I guess he could
have, but I can't imagine he did. Yeah, so he
actually was pretty explicit. And so what ended
up happening, yeah, is... So it turned out, yeah,
like, so he wanted a tour. And so, of course,
I asked one of my staff, like, do you mind just
kind of showing him around? And then I guess
he pulled him... one of my staff into a private
conversation and asked him point blank, like,
how do you feel about giving me oral right now?
You know? Okay. Or even saying like, you know,
I find you attractive. Like, you know, can we
can we do something? You know, like it was that
explicit and that direct. And so I think seeing
the shock on my staff's face, I think quickly
made him understand that he was definitely in
the wrong place and that we're not about that
here. And so, but sometimes, like I said, you
know, you'd be surprised at the things that people
say or think or how they behave when they don't
have an understanding of, you know, the queer
community. Absolutely. I think it also speaks
to like, it's symptomatic of a greater... problem
too is this kind of, I don't know, puritanism,
prudishness, like people aren't free to be themselves.
So they have to go and seek out these kinds of
trysts. Whereas if we lived in a world where
everyone was truly tolerant, it wouldn't be so
much of an issue to be understood. You know,
it is, it's human nature. Yeah. That's also interesting
for me for someone like that, like this, this
married man who obviously doesn't want to leave
his wife, but wants to experience whatever, you
know, sex with a different person. This is a
man who is clearly or probably polyamorous. There's
a world in which he doesn't have to leave his
wife He can be completely honest and open with
her the way that he should be and he can do what
he wants Right, but he can't be himself. So he
does this and it's so much more toxic Yeah Absolutely.
Yeah, and I think I think what you're both what
you both are saying is so important because it's
like you're seeing in real time societal conditioning
and how it creates sort of deviant behaviors
in people. Because they don't feel free to be
who they are, it creates this sort of extreme
where now they're creating situations that make
other people feel uncomfortable because they
don't feel comfortable with themselves. And the
reality is, like you said, Ruby, is that there
is a world where you can be who you are. If you're
a polyamorous person or you're attracted to both
genders, you can do that. But societal conditioning
tells him that he can't and that he has to, you
know, attain this facade of being this straight
cisgender male married to a woman because society
will reject him and he won't be able to live
openly the way that he wants to. So for me, it
was like seeing that scene yesterday, yeah, it
made me quite sad that in 2025, we still have
people... who are living a double life and not
living their truth out of fear of what society
will think. Yeah. And maybe that's part of why
the LGBTQ community gets conflated with... Okay,
there is the problem of sex work from a space
of desperation or the best way to make money
safely or whatever exists. But we as a community
also get conflated with these sexual tropes and
misconceptions because we are free to be ourselves
and because other people are not. I've read a
few times that people who say being gay or being
trans or being whatever is a choice is because
they are choosing to be straight. Like, it's
not a choice. You are what you are, right? Absolutely.
I totally agree. Yeah, and I think Yeah, I think
you're onto something there because I feel like
part of the hate or the aggression that we get
is because they resent us for the fact that we're
so liberated when it comes to our sexuality.
And they wish that they had that same liberation
within them rather than having to, you know,
in their minds do the thing that everyone expects
them to do. But because we don't have those same
boundaries, it's like we're now being labeled
the enemy, you know, because they, we get to
live the life that they wish that they could,
which is unapologetically ourselves. They want
that. They want that. You're right. They're,
well, I can only assume, but it's like they're
denying themselves something and it's that bravery
that they envy. So the next best thing is to
stop you from doing it so they can say to themselves
or assure themselves they were right all along.
And then they don't have to. They don't have
to. like fix themselves or take care and be accountable.
And then there's a factor of we're talking about
they, they, they. Of course, not all non -queer
people are they, like allies are definitely,
even though LGBTQIA doesn't explicitly include
allies, they are part of the community, right?
Because they are the ones who are being themselves
and they're just straight and that's fine. Yeah.
Absolutely. No, I totally agree. And that was
one of the surprises with Soul Fam was the overwhelming
number of guests that are non -queer that stay
here. You know, I did not expect when I, you
know, because I was, as you know, I'm very explicit
in my branding and marketing that this is an
LGBTQ plus inclusive space. So I thought automatically
that that would just turn off. non -clear people.
But in actuality, it's the opposite is true,
that people actually like being a part of a space
that is inclusive and celebrates diversity and
doesn't judge people based on how they identify.
So that was, so it shows that society is craving
this, like they have an appetite for this type
of space, but I think because it's not as ubiquitous
quite yet, it still is something that's very
niche and not as common. But I think people subconsciously
want to be a part of a society that is inclusive
and doesn't discriminate or separate people.
Yeah. I think you're not giving yourself enough
credit, Chase. I think people also come because
you've made... Like a really dope hostile because
I went online and I looked at the website and
I thought damn this place looks nice Better than
my apartment Like again like what Ruby says is
like if you're taller and you're tolerant So
it's like doesn't even register like who cares
if someone's queer So like you don't care if
there's like I mean I can go to a hotel and there's
people that are queer I don't know So, you know
when I see a nice place and I can afford it.
Oh, I'm there Yeah. And I think funny enough,
Luigi, I really feel like you just highlighted
a lot of people's mindsets when they book. It
really is not that deep. It's just very much
like, oh, nice place. I can afford it. Let's
go for it. Like they're probably not even reading
into the fact like the LGBTQ plus mission. None
of that. Like that doesn't even register. And
that's why some people come here, not even realizing
they booked a queer inclusive space. Oh yeah.
Yeah. Definitely could be. It's just weird to
think, you know, there are people who think there's
just some queer person lurking in the shadows
ready to, like, hit on them so they don't want
to go somewhere. It's just so silly to me. Like,
we have no soul control. Like, we just have to,
like... Yeah, I'm ready. Let's go. ...be fucking
physically attractive. Yeah, and, like, that
cliché, like, I mean, there's so much, like...
So much in art and it sounds bad to say that
but there's just so much in art and when I say
art I mean like literature and whatever else
of this trope of the queer person being bad and
a big part of that is to like a lot of that has
origins I think in like American cinema from
the past things like that. I mean, you know,
we can think of the more popular things like
Science of the Lambs Buffalo Bill is a really
popular one where like, you know, the queer person
is evil and things like that. And there was another
one, there's another Michael Caine movie from
a long time ago where he was like a therapist,
but a cross dresser and he stalked a woman, things
like this. So there's all that kind of bad stuff,
which is just that people see that and think
it's a window into reality is just so wrong headed
to me. It's an easy, easy avenue into other ship,
like the other. A concept of the other. What
did you say in the previous one? The dark forest
hypothesis. Similar to that. Oh, right. Yeah.
At least there's some kind of cross over there.
A dark, queer forest. No, it does share the same
elements, right? You're in this place. Sounds
like a fun place, though. A lot of fairy lighting.
You're gonna go in there, all you're gonna hear
is like cats purring and there's gonna be like
some, there's gonna be some fireplace somewhere
where everybody's just chatting nicely. But yes,
I guess you are drawing some parallels. You know,
you're in a place and you don't know who's there
and if it could be dangerous or not. Exactly,
and whatever makes it more strange makes it more
scary. Yeah. But maybe that's just because you're
not, you know, in tune with yourself and you're
afraid of what you might do because for whatever
reason you think it's not right. That brings
us full circle to don't be afraid and do the
things that you need. And we should probably
move on to the next perspective. Wait, what was
this perspective? I forget. You know, moving
house can... You need to identify the things
in your environment that make you uncomfortable.
Feel the fear. Feel the fear and do it anyway.
Yeah. Well, I don't know. I wasn't scared of
moving. I wanted to move. I just didn't realize
how toxic that environment was for me. Well,
why would you think... Why was your old apartment
toxic though? Just because it had a lot of traffic
sounds? No, because of the noise and the size
and the feeling of coming home and the distance
and all the little things, the little concessions
that I made to my quality of life in order to
stay there. Uh, well, I mean, everyone does that,
right? Yeah, but I'm saying make fewer. Like
you can definitely make some, but I just made
way too many. Like I had to walk 400 meters to
get to my car. I had to like rush to work every
morning. I had to deal with bad noise. The place
was too small. All of these things, right? And
I stayed there for five years. I was overpaying
for sure. I don't know how much your last, was
your last apartment more or less than your current
apartment? Less, but it was also half the size.
It was three quarters the price and half the
size. Okay. Yeah. I don't know, I think it can.
Do you have a perspective to share for us? So,
and when you say perspective, like, can it be
on any topic or? Absolutely. Anything, anything.
Like anything that grinds your gears that you
want to talk about that will just turn us into
a bunch of... Or something that helps you carry
on the region. I was just gonna say gossipy hoes,
you know, whatever. Just like, you know, spill
the tea. Anything. Or something that helps you
become who you are today. Okay. I feel like...
There's anything... Go for it. Go for it. I was
just gonna say, if like, if there's anything...
anything that's come to your mind lately that
you just thought about and you're like, huh,
I wonder just anything lately, you know, the
secret lives of everyday objects. What does the
table think? Well, it's funny. I feel like the
thing that popped into my head was leadership
and the fact that when I embarked on this journey,
I never wanted to be a manager of people and
For me, I feel like what's been really fascinating
for me was just having to grapple with the idea
of leading a team of people and that dynamic
and having to navigate people's feelings when
it comes to being in this space and how often
those can shift very suddenly. Leadership is
a very funny thing because it's like I think
we've all at some point have worked for someone
and we all have in our mind like what we think
is a good leader and who we think is a good manager
and and I think it's so funny when the tables
turn and then you're now in that position where
you're now having to lead and Then all of a sudden
it changes, you know, like before you would You
know, it's like it's almost like now I feel empathy
from my previous managers, who probably thought
that I was such a little a -hole, you know, for,
you know, giving them such a hard time. And now
that I'm in this position as a leader, I realize
how challenging it can be, you know, to embody
this person that feels authentic, but at the
same time, you know, creates a sense of, you
know, inspiration for people. Honestly, I would
say it's been one of the toughest things I've
had to navigate on this journey is how to be
authentically myself, but then also someone that
people aspire, someone that people are inspired
by, if that makes sense. And I feel like the
two don't always converge, but it's a work in
progress, I'll say. At the risk of being controversial,
I disagree. Wait, disagree about what? I think
that you are, maybe this is not true, but I think
that to me you came across as being completely
authentically yourself. And you absolutely inspired
me to take a lot of the risks that I'm... found
a partner online, a fellow trans woman who lives
in South Africa. We are now 50 -50 owners of
a registered company in South Africa. And that
is partly due to your inspiration. Oh, thank
you for sharing that. That honestly just like
makes me want to cry to know that I had that
effect on you. It just, yeah. And I... And I
think what you all are seeing in real time is
I'm my own worst critic. You know, I struggle
with that. You know, I sometimes do have imposter
syndrome when it comes to success and building
things because I still just deem myself as just,
you know, just like special, but just someone
who just really truly cares about the queer community
and just wants to do something great, you know.
And that's it. And so if I have a positive effect
on someone's life or I make someone feel welcome,
then for me, that's a win. The queer community
is missing, especially in South Africa, because
the environment is actually so conservative on
the surface. Cape Town is definitely an oasis,
but it's an oasis for people coming from the
outside. There's this conservative net. around.
I think one of the things that's lacking, and
I might be wrong in this, but from my perspective,
is a solid network of, for lack of a better term,
boss -ass queer people just making a killing.
And I want to be part of that group of people
that are making a difference every day, no matter
how small. So that's kind of my goal. Yeah, and
that's my general feeling as well, to be honest
with you. I do feel like there are other queer
entrepreneurs here, of course, but I don't feel
like we've developed necessarily like a network
or community where we're all supporting one another.
I think everyone is kind of sort of doing their
own thing more or less. Of course, you know,
when I started promoting, you know, a lot of
people approached me to want to do partnerships
and things like that, but to be honest, a lot
of them Don't come to fruition. I think people
just get really excited. Like they get that shiny,
um, that new shiny syndrome where they see something
new and they're like, Ooh, I just, I want to
like learn more about that. But then when it
actually comes to building something solid or
like creating a network that tends to not really
manifest as much. So, and it could be just the
culture in Cape town. I mean, I grew up in LA,
so this is a culture that I'm all too familiar
with people. presenting themselves as genuine
and wanting to build something only to, like,
never hear from them. So, um... Ask me about
authors that want to come on Kaleidoscope. There
have been a few, and none of them come to fruition.
Oh, okay. Yeah. I was gonna be like, don't bring
that up. What if there are authors on Kaleidoscope?
Shame. I'm sure eventually there will be, but
so far, none. Everybody wants to be a writer,
but nobody wants to write. That part I'm full
of I'm full of pedantic I can say the same thing
about I could say the same thing about like You
know partnership and entrepreneur like everyone
wants to be an entrepreneur, but only to build
anything It's the same sentiment like as soon
as they realize the work involved they kind of
go Yeah, you have to have that grit and like
really have to push yourself. Like, you know,
you don't want to do it. It's like you got to
brush your teeth. Nobody wants to brush their
teeth, but they know they have to. So there are
the people who know they have to and they force
themselves to do it, even if they're miserable.
And they can see the benefits or hope for the
benefits of putting in the effort. But most people,
not most people, but there are people who's saying
in the back of their heads, you know, ah, it's
not going to work out. So don't bother. Yeah.
persistence, perseverance, and the other thing
that I think that one of the big stoppers of
people doing cool stuff is somebody else has
done it already. Yeah, but you have to realize
there are no new ideas or everything has been
done already. I can say. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. Definitely a younger Luigi always used
to... He was definitely one of those, ah, someone
else did it, so what's the point kind of people.
And then he sees people still doing those things
and going like, ah, why, why didn't I, why wasn't
I the kind of person that could be like that
person who just did it anyway? Yeah. So yeah,
I definitely, I will, I will admit I am one of
those defeatist kinds of people. And I'm just
riding Ruby's coattails by being on this podcast.
No, you're definitely a positive contributor.
No, but what you're saying is so true though.
I think so often people have this false belief
that in order to be an entrepreneur, it has to
be like an uniquely idea. Like it has to be like
never done before. And that's not true at all.
Some of the most successful businesses in the
world have our repeats, our copies of others,
but they just did it better. Yes. That's all
that they did. They had better execution. They
had better marketing. They just were just better
than the competition. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I can
attest to that. I mean, this is something Ruby
and I probably know a lot about. If you're in
the city we're in, my goodness, there are so
many coffee shops. Everybody has a coffee shop
and it's just all, the coffee's all the same.
And we wonder, how do these things operate? First
of all, it's China, where you don't expect them
to love coffee so much. But it's such a pastime
here. And it's just, the selling point of all
these things, all these shops, is that they're
just always different. And that's the most interesting
thing about them is their aesthetic. How are
they going to do it differently than the other
ones? And of course, obviously they're the ones,
they're like the big conglomerate coffee shops
that are brands and... You know, they operate
like Starbucks, so they have a million other
flavors. But the smaller ones, where they just
have, you know, the usual coffees, Americanos,
lattes, like cappuccinos, so limited. And it's
like they don't even make like third wave coffee.
Like they don't make pour overs. They don't have
like coffee bean flavor profiles. It's just like
espresso and lattes. But every one, it's just...
how it looks on the inside that draws people,
really. And it's like the space. And I think
why it works so well here and why people continue
to do it is because I honestly think people do
not like being in their apartments. I don't think
houses here are built in a way that is like a
space where people want to be, which is weird
because it's your home, but it's just... So it's
all these third places that are so sought after.
So you have so many examples of people doing
the same thing, but they still have the confidence
to do it, which is admirable obviously. It's
great for me because I love a reason to just
go and sit in a coffee shop and the novelty is
just exponential. It's great. Yeah, it's so,
so, so fascinating. Ruby, what are you thinking?
Am I wrong? No, I'm thinking, so while you're
talking about this, I'm running my mind back
to you saying, Saltham looks so cool and you
would love to stay there. And then I'm thinking,
I'm going to be going back there. And I'm wondering,
are you coming with me to Cape Town? Forget Bangkok.
Hey. Don't ask me travel questions. You know
how one of my... That's why I'm bringing it up.
One of my... What's the word? What did we discuss
before? My lack of growth, whatever. My fear
to do something is travel. Traveling for me is
just like... Really? ...such an overwhelming...
Yeah, most people love travel. Like, oh, it excites
them. Me, I'm just like... It feels like work,
like, oh my God. I got a plan. I got to pack
stuff. And what if I forget something? It's just,
I am a creature of habit. Like I just love, I
don't love staying home all day, but I like knowing
I can, if I can just go back home right away.
Don't plan. Feeling a conqueror. Yeah, I do.
Don't plan. That's my favorite part about traveling.
Like as a South African, I've all my life been
plagued with the necessity of planning to get
visas. It's why I love going to Thailand because
I don't need a visa. It's why I love traveling
back home because I don't have to plan. I just
arrive and book a hotel. And then that's what
I did when I came to you. It was like two days
before and I was like, hey, I'm coming. Perfect.
No planning required. And then I'll be like,
oh, I'm going to go check out this place, maybe
this place, maybe or not. And that's awesome.
Okay. I think I could be that person if I had
a lot of money. If money wasn't an issue, I'd
be like, that place looks good. Let's go. You
know me. Chase doesn't know this about me, but
I feel like I bring it up in every podcast. terrible
relationship with money. Overspender? No, I'm
the absolute opposite of that. So you're frugal.
I will, I will, I will, I will use a paper towel
and then hang it up to dry and use again later.
I'm not really like that. Oh gosh. You know,
you get the sentiment. That's, I gotta work on
my money. My relationship with money is... You
gotta enjoy your life. Money is meant to be spent.
Yeah, that's the other thing. That's what they
say. It's a tool. I understand it's a tool, but
I have a really bad emotional attachment to money
that I am slowly working on. It's true. I'm trying
to spend a little bit more than I usually do.
Hey, I bought coffee every day this week. Do
you know how hard that was? Every day in the
morning. I'm like, oh, you don't need it, Luigi.
But I'm just like, no, just do it. And it is
so painful. The coffee wasn't even that good.
Tell us about your leadership journey. Leadership
journey. Me? Yeah. Okay. I don't want to toot
my own horn and say I'm a leader, but let me
just say, and this is what I thought of when
Chase was talking about how he was afraid to
be a leader, and maybe to agree or disagree,
but the best kind of leader the world says. is
the person who doesn't want to be a leader. Like
those are the people you want to be the leaders
because the people who seek out leadership are
kind of sinister, right? They have like power
issues. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I mean, I like to
believe that sentiment, but I think it's very
possible that someone who wants to be a leader
can be a good leader. I mean, look at Bernie
Sanders. I think he'd be a great leader. I don't
know. I think he's thinking out to be a leader.
So, you know, there are examples of it, but...
What about Zoran Mamdani? Oh, yeah. I don't know
yet. He just happened, so we'll see. I'm super
excited. Yeah. But... I kind of agree with you,
Luigi, though. I do think... the best leaders
are the ones that don't necessarily want to be
leaders. I think what it is, it's like, because
you're not seeking recognition. You're not seeking,
you know, it's almost like people who seek fame
versus people who are pursuing talent. It's like
they're not trying to be famous. They just want
to express their talent. And so I think for me,
I never wanted... to, you know, achieve notoriety
or fame or anything for SoulFam. I just wanted
to build something meaningful. And so I think
it's really your intention that kind of dictates
how you lead. Right. And even you, you have empathy
for your old managers and stuff. So to me that
tells me, you know, you're not a... I was the
worst, I was the worst employee, guys. The worst.
So I guess, My question for you in that regard
is like, when you have those employees who are
sassing you at being bad, do you have the patience
to understand them? Or are you getting mad going
like, ugh? Yeah, you know, it's funny actually
because I'm starting to realize that people actually
respect you more when you're kind. And that actually
being super assertive or aggressive or being
a hard ass, it actually rubs people the wrong
way. And it actually doesn't inspire them or
motivate them to be their best self. And so I
found it's so funny, like everything that we're
taught in terms of what a good leader is, is
actually the opposite. It's actually the person
that's relatable and very clear on expectations
and someone that they can speak to. Those are
the qualities that I think people actually respect
in a leader, especially in a hostile environment
where it's so social and it's so community -based.
They want someone who embodies those qualities.
Yeah. Can I just say that? Yeah, I agree with
the kindness thing, but it's got to be... Like
it's gotta be real kindness because I think a
lot of people are good at putting on the mask
of kindness and It's just it's not it's not genuine.
It's definitely and I think people can sniff
that out and I like your expectation thing Definitely
having clear expectations. Like that's what people
appreciate in a leader. Absolutely Understanding,
you know relatability clear expectations then
that's a lot of in my professional life a lot
of the like the cut the The conflict thank you
Ruby the having known your boss Having had your
boss. I do not envy you and I'm happy to be away
It's it's yeah, not having those those, you know
clear expectations, but so okay chase, but you
also said you want to inspire your employees,
but why do you have to want to inspire them?
Why put that pressure on yourself? I think for
me it's because, and I think you all might have
experienced this in your life, when you create
and build something that you're so passionate
about, it's very natural to want the people around
you to share that same energy. and to share that
same commitment that you do. Because I know that
if they embody that, they're going to be able
to achieve the mission that we're setting out
to achieve. But if they don't bring that energy
and that presence, then it becomes very difficult
to execute that vision. And so, so yeah, so I
think for me, it's more so I want them to feel
like they are, how do I say this? I'm very much
a person where I'm very sensitive to the idea
of time and not wasting your time and not living
a life that you know you should not be living
or following a path that's not aligned with who
you are. And so in that sense, if you don't feel
inspired and motivated here, chances are that
maybe this isn't the space for you and maybe
you should be following a different path where
you do feel inspired, you do feel excited. Because
I think life is too short to just be miserable
doing what you do instead of doing what you love.
Yeah. And I think if you keep doing what you're
doing, your employees will see that and they
will admire it so much. It will move them to
action. And I say this speaking from my experience
because it's the... You know the bad bosses that
aren't doing anything and delegating that make
you disgruntled and angry But when I see the
ones who are doing it all and you know walking
beside me That I'm like moved, you know, and
I've told Ruby this before you know, like when
we worked together, I would go home and cry because
I was so stressed. But before the other boss,
I would go home and cry because I was so moved
because they were such a good person. And like,
that's the difference. And I think you don't
have to tell your employees to be that or you
gotta say, you gotta be inspired. You just have
to be and do your thing and they will see it
and it will happen. Because... I think you only
get those kinds of bad employees when, you know,
the boss is just some figure somewhere, you know,
shouting down at them. Yeah, I totally agree.
Yeah, and if I may bring it back to me and being
a leader, there was a time in life where I tried
to be a leader and tried to seek out leadership.
It just never materialized. But now I just feel
like, well, now I'm more like a weird, I found
myself in positions of being like a consular,
like just who sees problems and is just so hyper
aware of dynamics that when a new leader comes,
just giving them the down low and they've just
always appreciated that, not to toot my own horn.
But I think that's why I could never, I will
never be put into a leadership. position because
I'm just too useful the other way and people
see it. So I got to like be lazy or something.
So you like being a number two. You don't want
to be Batman. You want to be Robin. I don't know
if I could be Batman, but the number two thing
is just like, I think something I just am because
it's just in my nature instead of like, yeah,
I like to gossip and complain. But it's not like
true complaining. It's just like fun. But I do
actually, I am very proactive in just solving
problems. Instead of like, you know, oh, it's
so -and -so's job. Whatever. I'll just do it.
Oh, we need a ladder? I'll go find one. What's
that, Ruby? That's fair. Yeah, you're right.
It's very self -aware and good. I agree with
your self -assessment, not entirely. I do think
that you can be a good leader. Well, you did
work with me, so you would know. In terms of
being practical and proactive in solving problems,
yeah, for sure. Thank you. I feel seen. Yeah,
I see. Luigi, why don't you share your perspective
with us? You mean the one I was talking about
today? Well, whatever you want. I don't really
have a perspective. I feel bad. I had made a
joke perspective. Like, why am I always being
ghosted? Yeah, go for it. Oh, is that something
that you deal with? That's perfect. I'm curious
about this one, because I have a lot of strong
perspectives on ghosting. I don't know. Oh, okay.
Well, then, okay. Well, then let's just talk
about the topic of ghosting. I just think I'm
bad at socializing, but I think I try. I try.
I try, you know, I interact with people. I interact
with women and I think it's generally positive.
And then they just like, it just, they just disappear.
And I'm just, it just, just tell me you don't
want to talk to me anymore. Why do you gotta
keep me guessing for days and days? I just don't
like, I mean, I know ghosting is a symptom of
like some other kind of emotion you can't process
because it's too overwhelming, but it's just,
ugh. Just kill him That's my perspective is why
why do we have to ghost each other? Why and how
does it normally go? Like you send a message
and they just don't respond or how like how does
it normally go? Yeah, and then you know, I'll
try and be really, you know nice and amicable.
And then eventually it always comes to this.
I'll get to a point where I go like, oh, I haven't
heard from you in a while and I hope you're doing
okay. It just seems desperate. But I never say
like, you know, forget you. Oh, you're such an
expletive whatever. I don't want to swear on
the podcast. But yeah, why? Why does it happen
to me? Do you, I mean, I guess I have a question.
Do you feel like, do you feel like... are fully
opening up to the people that you're trying to
get to know? Like, do you feel like you're letting
people in? I mean, if, I think I'm not, I think,
hmm, that's tough to answer. I'm not, I'm not
opening up, but I'm not, if they were to ask
me something, I wouldn't deny it. But I think
I don't open up because I don't want people to
be, I don't know, uncomfortable, scared away,
things like that. Because sometimes I have this
theory, I don't know if you agree, Ruby, I have
a theory about ghosting that people ghost other
people that they don't feel an emotional connection
with. Because see, if you feel connected to someone
and they're fully opening themselves up to you,
then it's harder to ghost them because you feel
bad about it. But when you feel disconnected
to someone, then it's easy to ghost. Because
there is no, there is nothing there. There is
nothing there that makes you feel that guilt
feeling, you know? I mean, it's also a lack of
emotional maturity. I mean, let's just call it
for what it is. But I do feel like that's the
reason why I ask the question is because I do
sometimes feel like people who are closed off
emotionally or who don't open up easily or don't
let people in tend to get ghosted a lot. Because
at the end of the day, if... If there's no emotional
connection, then it's easy for someone to dismiss
you. But that's just my theory. I don't know
if you agree, Ruby. Okay, yeah, but I do have
something to say on this, but first I have a
question for you. Are you saying that, just to
tie everything up here, you should take the risk
and do something like, I knew you were going
to say that! And take the leadership in sharing
and being kind. How do we give points for incorporating
all ideas in the one hack statement? Yeah, you're
right. Funny. So I do get ghosted. But for different
reasons. And I do ghost for different reasons.
I ghost people who are chasers. I have a problem
with chasers. I think a lot of trans women have
a problem with chasers. What is, what is, wait,
is that a term? A chaser? Or are you speaking,
this is just your own? Yeah. A chaser is a person
who is interested in speaking to you for the
sole express purpose of having sex with you as
a one -eyed sand with zero emotional attachment.
Yeah. And, and they don't, and it's, it's exasperated
because these people generally don't want to
be seen with you in public because they are actually
transphobic. So that's my problem with being
ghosted. And I've made it clear in this podcast
already that I'm an unabashedly sexual being.
Like things are on the table, but I have to like
you. Of course. Like it's a very simple, right?
If you don't want to have coffee with me, and
if we can't have a good conversation and connect,
it's not worth my while. So it comes back to
exactly what you said Chase if I don't feel an
emotional connection with you and I think that
or Sorry, I'm saying you like with any person
It's not it's not gonna happen Ruby as an aside
question. Are you saying you're a sapio sexual
and you can't just be? animalistically attracted
to someone No, I can definitely be animalistically
attracted to someone and they don't necessarily
need to be... Like, to fight sapiosexual, how
smart do you have to be? Like, the bar for sapiosexuality
is... I never liked that. That's such a loaded
term to me, sapiosexual. I always never trusted
the person who says, I'm a sapiosexual. Okay,
whatever. Yeah, because you only use that term
if you're trying to sound smart. So... Yeah,
rather sharp right like I could have intellectual
conversations about soap, you know But you have
to be into the the the topic of soaps What kind
of sap your sexuality that doesn't mean the guy
who knows a lot about soap is stupid. He knows
a lot about soap So yeah, but the connection
thing chase like you just You just totally disqualified
my whole ghost thing because that one emotional
connections don't get ghosted. I'm just like,
yeah, that actually does make sense. Cause I'm
just, you know, having these kinds of like, I
don't say vapid, but vapid conversations with
people in a digital space. And I think a big
part of it is because of, you know, my location
and where I am. I've known people. It's funny
to me. I've known people for so long on the internet
and we're in the same city and we just have not
met yet for whatever reason. And they're just.
They'll always, it seems like they'll always
make an excuse. But I don't know if it is an
excuse or just timing, but we still haven't met
yet. And you know, maybe they're just not comfortable
yet. But the thing is like, why are they still
putting up with me? And why am I still putting
up with them? And why are you taking the initiative?
I try. I really do. You do? But as a man, right?
No. I will not do that. No man should just take
the initiative and show up. That is a recipe
for disaster. You can't do that. No, here's what
you do. Okay, so here's what I'm imagining right
now. I'll give you a situation that I've been
in. I was speaking to this guy online and he
lives in another city. And I'm like, I'm in Suzhou
and he says, you should come visit me. I'm like,
why? Because I like you. Why? No answer, right?
So like, we've been speaking for two days. Like
literally just two days. You expect me to go
there. I'm like, I'm sorry, there's no reason
for me to go there. But flip this around to a
scenario where... He keeps chatting. He never
asks me to go to his city. And a month or so
into us chatting, he sends me a message like,
hey, I'm in town. I'm going to this cool restaurant
I like. I'm going to go there. Do you want to
meet up and chat? Yes. And there, right? For
sure. Compared to like, hey, come to this city.
Yeah. without even a suggestion. So what you
could do is like, hey, I'm in town. I saw this
really cool restaurant. I was wondering if you'd
be interested in meeting me. You're inviting
her to a public space in her hometown and giving
her the choice and power. Of course. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm well aware of those dynamics.
It's just, you know, there are those people who,
for whatever reason, will say, oh, I have a cold,
but maybe next week. And you're like, oh, OK,
they're rejecting me. That's OK. It's just cold
feet. Yeah, it's cold feet. But then like days
later, they'll talk to you again. Yeah, that's
annoying. A cute little emoji. And you're like,
oh, hey, what's up? And then push, pull, and
then ghost it. And one of the most fun things
I've had, the most fun I've had this year. Yeah.
You guys will both know about this and the TikTok
refugee crisis. When, when TikTok got shut down.
Yeah, months ago. In the States, a bunch of TikTok
users came to a Chinese app called Redbook. Um,
and all of the chat rooms just like, boom, spiked.
There were so many people on there talking and
suddenly English. And today still. Like some
of the people have stayed and they keep going
on to Red Note. I have met personally, face to
face, seven people that I met online on Red Note.
Um, and it's been so much fun because you create,
there was zero expectation. We just started talking
online and they're like, Hey, I'm going, I'm
going to go to China. Is it possible that we
could like meet up? and they're in Shanghai and
that's a completely different scenario, right?
I will go, I will pick you up at the airport.
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And also too, I was going
to ask you both, have you thought about or reflected
on your subconscious thoughts when it comes to
relationships and dating? I will say yes, but
I don't know if that's actually true. I want
to think I am reflecting, but... I don't objectively
know if I'm reflecting the right way. Because
one thing I've discovered is... Aw. Aw. So cute.
Ruby, why are you distracting us? This is...
This is Tesla. She's the dog. Hi, Tesla. Beautiful.
After the scientist, not the car. Of course.
It's an important distinction to make. But yeah,
one thing that I've discovered too that I find
really fascinating is that sometimes I feel like
we carry subconscious beliefs about relationship
into new connections, and we unintentionally
push people away because they can feel our closed
-offness. They can feel our negativity when it
comes to thinking, oh, this is just going to
be another person that ghosted me or another
person that disappointed me. When people can
feel that and what's interesting is that it becomes
a self -fulfilling prophecy where it becomes
a cycle now. Because until we shift our subconscious
beliefs about love and dating and the people
that we interact with, we just keep manifesting
the same outcome. And so that's another thing
that I thought about with ghosting is I think
sometimes it's hard to admit that we perpetuate
the ghosting. We perpetuate that cycle. because
of the energy that we bring to connections. And
people are simply responding to our subconscious
beliefs and energy. And really just confirming
what we already think is gonna happen, which
is ghosting or disappointment. Yeah, very true.
Chase, are you sure you're just a hostile? Sure
not some like LA guru. You weren't, you didn't
do anything like that in the past, are you sure?
So you're offering a lot of good advice today.
I do my best. How is your dating life? If I may
ask. You said how is my daily life? Dating. Oh,
dating life. Oh, okay. Yeah. Funny enough, I
have my own sort of cycles and demons that I
also need to break. myself, which is why I think
I can speak on it because as someone who continues
to come with, you know, challenges in that area
of my life, it's yeah, it's become very salient
for me. So I think for me, the cycle that I'm
trying to break is I tend to move fast because
I'm a very passionate, I'm a very passionate
guy. And so when I am into someone, then I'm
just like, I'm like the opposite of cautious.
I'm like, let's book a ticket, let's plan a trip
together, let's go for it. You know, I'm just,
I'm, cause I'm so, I think what it is is I'm
so unjaded when it comes to my heart and my heart
is so open. So I'm kind of the opposite of you,
Luigi, in that I'm so open and I'm so giving
of my energy that oftentimes I go too quickly
and... don't allow the time to really get to
know the person. So I think if you and I were
to combine our energies, we'd be perfect. Yeah.
It seems that way. There's definitely, you need
a delicate balance. I can admit. I am very patient
and careful because I do, I think I do on some
level think like, it's not going to work out.
That's terrible. See, and I'm the opposite in
that I think everything's going to work out.
So I go for it. It's your business acumen. You're
a go getter. That's what it is. Yeah. At the
end of the day, I know that I have enough resilience
to get over the heartbreak if it doesn't work
out. And so I think that's the difference. It's
like, I'm willing to put my heart out there and
be vulnerable knowing that it can be disappointed
or heartbroken because the alternative is being
cautious and that person's sensing that and then
it makes them cautious. It makes them not want
to put themselves out there. And so then you
kind of have a stalemate essentially. And so
I've just become used to being the person that's
the initiator. And it's like, hey, like, let's
go for this. And usually it rubs off on people,
even if it all comes crashing down. Right. Not
really good advice. I think that's really, really
useful. Yeah. Now I'm just, I'm going to have
to uncomfortably push myself. Yeah. To be a go
-getter. You'd be surprised how people respond
to boldness. I think people are desperate for
it. They're desperate for someone to just break
away from the scripts when it comes to dating
and just do something completely out the norm
and just kind of shake them up almost. And then
you find that, you know, those are the best kind
of connections, those spontaneous connections
where you're just letting go and you're not overthinking
it and just allowing your heart to leave and
not your head, which I know a lot of cisgender
males struggle with. Yes. You're all in your
head when you need to be in your heart space.
Yeah. Definitely. I mean, yeah, better to just
go for it. I mean, if you're going to be hesitant
and you know it's not going to work out, then
just go for it and make it not work out. Yeah.
Because then it might work out. It's almost a
paradox almost. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
So to answer your question, Ruby, I am single,
but I am continuing to... you know, put myself
out there. And sometimes I get it right, but
sometimes I get it wrong. But at the end of the
day, I'm enjoying the journey regardless. I'm
sure the destination is going to be worthwhile
because you're putting out all the right energy
and you're going to get exactly who you deserve,
who is a soulmate, a great person. Yes, I hope
so. I think that is an excellent spot to wrap
up today's episode. This has been Kaleidoscope
PBTS with Chase King, founder of SoulFam Hostel
in Cape Town, South Africa's first LGBTQIA +,
positive, expressly inclusive hostel. Find SoulFam
Hostel on www .soulfamhostel .com. I have stayed
there. It is a lovely place and I encourage anybody
to do so. Thank you so much. I was also joined
with Luigi. You can find Luigi on Kaleidoscope.
You can find me at echoember .co .uk or on Instagram
at Fire from heat. Thank you for listening. Goodbye.