Hi everyone, it's Ray here. Before we jump into
today's episode, a quick note. You'll notice
that Maya and Luigi's audio is a little choppy
in places. Something went wrong with the audio
during recording and I'm not sure what, but I've
tried my best to clean it up. And luckily, our
guest's audio came through perfectly. So you
won't miss a thing. And I'm really glad for that.
Because the conversation today is special. We
were joined by Sinaloa Jonas, host of Pride the
Queer Show, a program you can catch on Cape Town
TV, or you can stream it online at freevisionplay
.co .za. Sinaloa's work is all about amplifying
queer voices and stories. And it was such a privilege
to bring our worlds together from Cape Town all
the way to China and tangentially to Canada too.
Just for this episode. I had a lot of fun recording
it. I had some really great conversations with
him. I'm going to invite him back onto the show.
It's quite possible that I will be in season
two of Pride the Queer Show. Anyway, with that,
enjoy the show. Tough questions. Honest answers.
Oh, the messy truth. Your perspectives. Let's
begin. Welcome to Kaleidoscope. I know the time
zones are quite, like, different. And, yeah,
I'm so happy that she could accommodate me in
your time zone. So thank you so much. It's absolutely
an honor and, of course, a pleasure for me to
finally do this with you guys. Okay, great. So
my name is Ruby Ray. What's her name? This is
my co -host and ex -coworker. I'm doing it myself.
About eight months ago, I started medical transition.
And in that time, when I switched over to the
estrogen hormone, it was like my mind just went
through a complete revolution. And for the first
time in my life, I could focus on what I really
wanted to do. I had known what podcasts are.
I wanted to start a podcast. I never knew what
I wanted to start about. And this just gave me
such a new perspective. So I was like, I want
to talk to people from around the world. Yeah.
That is great. So you started this podcast eight
months ago. Yeah. Okay. That is so great. Such
a new baby. I started my show a few months ago.
So your podcast is a bit older than my show,
but my show has been on the wax for like three
years before we started going into production.
So we had to like do a whole lot of planning
back and forth proposals. But that was like,
that was like in 2022. And then we only started
shooting now in 2025. so yeah oh my gosh that's
crazy um okay so what we do on kaleidoscope is
each of us takes a turn we share a perspective
that has helped us change right after introductions
and that perspective can be for example my first
perspective ever away i've always wanted to do
something creative with my life And now for the
first song, I feel brave enough to take that
step. And it might fail, but I don't care. That
was my perspective. And then I allowed Luigi
and Patrick to kind of delve into that with me
for a while, for about half an hour. And then
we went to the next perspective. Yeah. Should
I be next? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. One more thing,
one more thing. As we begin, we like to introduce
ourselves with something silly, like an anecdote.
For example, my name is Ruby Ray Rieu, and slaps
fear me in the life. So if you want to partake
in that, I'll start in a few minutes, in a few
seconds. Feel free, or you can just... introduce
yourself. Normally, you can introduce your socials.
I will also add them into the description of
the show. Does that sound good? That sounds great.
Okay, great. Give me one second to think. About
what? My introduction. What are you having already?
No, I don't have anything. I think you're used
to this already. Come on. Welcome to Kaleidoscope,
a show where we explore the art of growth and
the perspective of everyday people. My name is
Ruby Rayview, and some people know me as the
woman who howls in the night. A she -wolf? A
friend. A she -wolf. A werewolf, maybe? That
makes more sense. I'm the werewolf when I walk
my dog. I am joined today, as always, by my co
-host, Luigi. And I am honored to have the host
of Fry the Queer Show of Cape Town TV helping
out here, Jonas Sinaloa. Yay! I'm going to clap.
There we go. That wasn't too hard. Should I go
next? My turn yet. I'm Carlos Luigi, and I just
want you to stop asking me if I'm listening.
Because I'm always listening to music. I don't
know why you need to stop and ask me and stop
my good vibes. I'm kind of missing Tennessee.
Your own is here before we're an actual team.
You know. It's great. Whenever it's me. The last
but most important thing for me today. Yes. Well,
my name is Tunalo Jonas, all the way from Cape
Town in South Africa. Most people call me Flicky,
as in on fleek, always on fleek. They call me
the guy who's always on fleek. I don't know why.
That was a name that was given to me years ago
when I was starting up my television career.
It's been years now. I don't think I'm on Flick
anymore. I'm a bit older now. I'm not that guy
who's older than Flick anymore. But yeah, I am
a television host. I am a radio presenter. And
of course, I am an emcee. And I must say, thank
you guys. Your energy is absolutely amazing.
I feel like I'm in the same room as you are,
guys. Well, you're in spirit. Actually, I could
just go right here. I hope you guys don't mind
me having a cup of tea. No, no, no. I'm much
cruder than you. Okay, of course. Thanks. That's
good then. Sonala. Yeah. Welcome to The Mitoscope.
And do you have a perspective that you would
like to dive in or share with us about how...
your show developed, why it developed, and where
it came from? I'm super interested, or if not
that, anything else. I think for me, the perspective
that I want to actually share with you today,
and of course probably dive in the most, is the
representation of who we are as queer individuals,
as queer identities in mainstream media. such
as tv shows tv dramas tv series and reality tv
shows um the way we are represented in mainstream
media and of course pop culture i think that
is a dialogue that i've always wanted to have
and that is a dialogue that i've always wanted
to be part of that is a dialogue that i feel
like is very important in 2025 how we are portrayed
in media especially television and of course
pop culture i think um also is there enough representation
of who we are on television if there is enough
representation of who we are on television is
it is it fine is it is how we portrayed you know
the way we are in real life or is it just for
entertainment you know and i feel like as a queer
African men living in Africa today, I feel like
our stories needs to be told. And as much as
I can see that there is a representation of who
we are on television, in media, and of course
in pop culture, but I just feel like it's just
for entertainment. It's not to touch on the real
issues that we face as queer individuals. I just
feel like it's just for entertainment. It's just
to make people laugh, just to make people entertained,
but it does not touch on the real. issues that
as queer individuals we face I'll say in Africa
and of course in a global scale internationally
so I feel like that is probably a perspective
or a dialogue that maybe we can touch on a bit
but you guys are the owners of the podcast let
me not come here and intrude I mean, what you
just touched on is very, very close to my heart.
And it's something that I've become much more
in touch to in the past year than I have ever
been in my life. And for me, it's so incredibly
visceral because I come from a place of... insane
social privilege. But even now, looking back,
my perspectives on that are still changing on
a daily basis. I'm realizing how much has changed.
And in the time that I transitioned was just
before Donald Trump got elected. And the online
sphere went from... completely fine to me waking
up and drinking coffee with an inbox full of
literal hate wow and that brought home everything
in such a big way because i started cross -dressing
uh in 2019 really that was the start of me this
is i i I normally don't like talking about this
in a place where I haven't been able to find
people because it sounds like it's a pipeline.
It sounds like you become trans. But really what
it is, it's you're standing on the precipice
of your own identity that you've locked away
and you start walking towards it. Like some kind
of Lord of the Rings. to your own identity. Yeah.
Where was I going with this? Right. So during
these four years of being frustrated and becoming
older and more involved and in touch and connected
with my own community, I started experiencing
little bits of what you're talking about. And
one of the things that really touched me was
the Danish film. The movie, I don't know if you've
watched it. No, I haven't watched it. Okay. The
Danish girl is a story, based on a true story,
of the first transgender woman in the early 90s,
1900s, who actually received surgery. And one
of the things that hurt me so much in this, because
I'm married to a woman, so... And in the Danish
film, what happened was a married man came in
touch with his own density during or early in
their marriage. They were both artists. And in
the movie, that happens in a few weeks from being
in a monogamous marriage to stealing another
man. And that didn't happen. They moved to Paris
together and they lived as a queer couple for
more than 20 years. And that is completely erased
in the movie for the sake of focusing on, wow,
this transgender journey is worse in a way that
could seem relatable for cisgender people, but
it completely misrepresents. what actually happened
and it arises such beautiful let's be in the
relationship at the same time and that hurt yeah
that sounds that sounds very interesting actually
you know now that you're telling me i've to be
honest i've never watched i've never spent it
before i think you need to to dm me the details
so that i can literally um watch it and be enlightened
more about that particular story which is quite
very interesting and it's so weird that you've
mentioned that the first transgender woman was
in the early 1900s but we are only now hearing
about these stories like starting a few years
ago and you know where was where was this story
hidden for a very long time were they were they
packed somewhere in a shelf in a shop that maybe
in 2025 will share the stories. I honestly don't
know. Yeah. And this is another... If I may interrupt.
Just on your point of why are we only hearing
about these stories now? Did you know that the
oldest goddess on record for humankind is the
ancient Mesopotamian goddess Inanna? the goddess
of love and war. And she, her story is a transgender
one. And her acolytes were non -binary. Yeah.
That is more than 3 ,000 years ago. Where did
you hear this? What did you learn next? Doing
research. That's interesting. There are a lot
of... Yeah. But I tend to go off on tangents.
Should we let our guest continue? Yeah. You wanted
to say something. You wanted to say something,
yeah. No, you wanted to say something. We're
waiting for you. No, I wanted to say, because
I've posed the question, why are we only hearing
about these stories now? And you're talking about
this goddess. And literally, I used to do a lot
of mythology. in university, my first few years
of varsity. And these are the kind of stories
that we've never, you know, really touched on.
We've touched on them, but it was like, you know,
in passing, you know, it was not like the main
focus or we were never going to be given an assignment
based on that or there was no question about
that in the essays or in the assignments or in
the exams. So hence I'm saying... These stories,
it seems like they've always been there, but
we have never been told about these stories.
We have never seen them on TV. I have honestly
never read about these stories, whether it's
a book at the nearby library, whether it's a
book at the University of Cape Town. These are
the stories that don't get told often. And Ray,
I'm not going to lie, that is the reason why
I got into television. Because I wanted to tell
the stories of the untold. I wanted to tell the
stories of the minority group. I wanted to tell
the stories, our stories, in a way that, you
know, from the word of mouth, from literally,
from the horse's mouth itself, you know. Instead
of having a producer in LA or a producer in Cape
Town who knows nothing about queer stories, but
just want to create entertainment, you know.
for you to enlighten me about these stories now
which is i'm going to go and do my research as
well i've learned something from you that you're
such a research expert by the way um which is
i think as much as we say these stories are not
being told but it is also our duty as queer individuals
to do our own research and to tell the stories
to inform to educate it is our own duty as much
as we are saying we want the world to be with
us but we need to be with the world we need to
inform the world we need to educate the world
so that you can do it in a small circle you know
of friends and that is going to spread and infiltrate
throughout your community because you've shared
with the people that are close to you and they're
going to share with the people that's close to
them so thank you for enlightening me about these
two examples that you've shared right now so
So now you were saying that the representation
of queerness on television, where you're from,
is, let's take the lack of a better word, the
problem. It's not an accurate representation.
So can you gloss over it and maybe just explain
a little bit of what that looks like? I wouldn't
say it's not accurate, right? I'm not saying
what I see on television is not accurate, but
what I'm seeing on television as for entertainment,
it does not touch on the real life experiences
of queer individuals. For example, there is an
incredible show in South Africa that is called
Becoming, right? Which shares the stories of
transgender people, whether you're a male or
a female. It's a reality TV show that brings
together these incredible social media stars,
these incredible public figures who are in the
journey of transitioning, right? And what I see
on the show is not their stories being told in
terms of when they started to transition. How
did their family treat them? How was the reception
from community, friends and family? What does
transition mean to them? Have they transitioned
physically or have they just transitioned in
their head and then they started dressing as
a man or as a woman? How is their transition
so far? Take us through the journey of transitioning.
What I see on the show is just beautiful trans
people who are just hating on each other, who
are just being dramatic, who are dressed very
fancy, going to fancy events. You know, it's
all about partying, looking gorgeous. but in
my head and i'm like but that's not all that
we bring to the table as queer individuals we
are not just bringing um fabulous life we're
not just bringing flamboyant life we're not just
bringing you know partying being rich being famous
but there's so much more to us there is a journey
of a person who's transitioning here from being
a male to being a female what happens to that
journey have they transitioned fully Have they
gone for surgery? Have they transitioned physically?
Have they gone to the home affairs? Have they
changed their identity through government channels?
Are they now recognized in South Africa as a
woman? Or does the ID still say male? When they
fly out of the country, what happens? When they
fly to another city, what happens at the airport?
Those are the things that I feel like reality
TV shows such as that could be. showing out there
to the rest of the country that as much as we've
got trans men and trans women this is their life
lifestyle but these are the challenges that they
face daily in south africa and of course in the
continent so i don't think they are showing enough
of that those shows are meant to educators those
shows are meant to inform us you know um as much
as they meant to entertain us as well but at
the same time they need to give us information
they need that to give us education there is
a child who watches that show who is probably
18 years old and is thinking of transitioning
but they're watching that show and they're not
learning anything about the journey that they
want to embark on you know all they see is parties
drama people fighting god knows what they're
fighting about but i feel like there's so much
that you know mainstream media can touch on in
terms of shows like that can educate a person
like me who's a gay man about the journeys of
becoming a trans man or a trans woman you know
um it's not an easy journey but i feel like they
just need to educate us what i'm seeing now on
on reality tv shows it's a matter of having this
gay character and all he brings into the table
is drama and and you know rich and famous you
know so i'm not saying There are no rich gay
men out there. There are lots of rich gay men.
But let's also touch on the issues that gay men
or the whole entire queer community faces in
their daily lives. If we are to bring queer stories
on television or let's say it's just media as
in general. Yeah. So it sounds like, again, probably
to agree with what you're saying, that the media
isn't really informing people. It's just a caricature
of what, let's say, heteronormativity expects
of, you know, queer people, whether they're trans,
whether they're gay. Instead of, you know, seeing
the real struggles and problems. And, I mean,
obviously there are a myriad of reasons why television
doesn't touch on that. People might not want
to watch it. It might be too painful. I mean,
you're both from South Africa. In my mind, this
is from what I know from what Ruby talks about
in her personal life. I honestly don't. And I'm
here in a place that has a lot of people from
South Africa personally. And honestly speaking,
I haven't met very many tolerant South Africans
when it's come to LGBTQ plus, whatever. So in
my mind, South Africa is a very... Not sorry?
Am I wrong? You're not wrong. Okay, you continue.
I'll speak after you. I want to hear your perspective
on that. Okay. My perspective is, just to wrap
back up a little bit, I completely agree with
you. A lot of TV shows, segments, extremely complex,
extremely painful, extremely deep art piece.
life of someone discovering their true identity
and it flattens it out to drama. And that's terrible.
And they do it because they think people don't
want to see it. They think people don't want
to know. And that's exactly what happened with
the video game industry, for example. Big corporations
do things for money because they think this is
what's going to sell and they just flatten and
erase everything of value. out of that and they're
the people that that you saw africa tell me a
situation you know i feel uncomfortable and then
come from a place you know burning away from
their own life in a way yeah i think going back
to to what you say i think south africa is i
don't allow we've got one of the best laws when
it comes to the protection of human rights The
law literally protects each and everyone who
lives in South Africa. The skin color, gender,
sexuality, it literally does protect each and
everyone. The law is absolutely beautiful. And
I think if I look back in 2025 and the work that
I've done with the TV show, I think as much we
have progressed as a country in terms of acceptance,
in terms of... allowing people to be who they
are and live in their own truth and in their
own identity. I think South Africans have come
a very long way, but I feel like we still have
a long way to go, right? As much as the country
we have progressed, and it's amazing to see,
as much as the Constitution protects everyone,
whether you are queer or not, it's amazing to
see. But I still feel like on the ground, in
real life experiences, in the street, at home,
in the communities, we still have a long way
to go. And I do agree with you, Ray. The reason
maybe that our stories are not being told in
a manner that we would like them to be told is
because maybe TV productions or TV producers
believe that people don't want to see. a lot
of queerness on television, right? People have
certain things that they want to see about being
queer on television. There are certain things
that they don't want to see. They don't want
to see two men kissing each other. They don't
want to see a journey of a transitioning man
from being a man to being a woman. You know,
they don't want to see, they're thinking that
people don't want to see that. But from my personal
experience, since I've started this show, People
really want to learn. You know, people really
want to engage in conversation because trust
me, people are raising queer kids. People have
queer fathers. People have queer mothers. People
have queer brothers. People have queer parents.
So people really want to learn and be informed
and be informed about the queer community. But
maybe we don't know what huge... want when they're
sitting in bedrooms and they decide which content
should go on television and which content should
not go on television. I don't know how they decide,
you know, but I think from what I've learned
in the past few months of 2025, people do want
to learn, you know, but there's not enough dialogues
and spacing where people can go and learn. And
I believe that television, which is one source
of media that literally has so much influence.
We can use that to educate people because you
can literally watch an American show while you're
in South Africa. You can watch a South African
show while you're in America nowadays. So I feel
like mainstream media is the perfect way to go,
but maybe they know what people want. Maybe they
do surveys and people don't want to watch us
on television. Who knows? I'm more cynical than
that. Okay, well, what's your take? I think...
I agree with you. The platform availability is
incredible. Yeah. I think that just people that
have, because exactly what you're saying is true.
Television is the perfect way to influence people.
Yeah. And as such, it is very easy to politicize.
And because of that, investment comes from people
who have money. that want to push their agenda,
and they are the ones who are going to see what
goes. We need to be rich, guys, so that we can
have our own channels, TV stations, radio stations.
Let's do it. I think you're... Yeah. I think
you're right to a degree. Now, I would go the
other way and say I don't think television is
as influential anymore. It's kind of the internet.
You know, you have other avenues of watching
TV or watching entertainment. So, you know, I
would say that, honestly, social media, you know,
YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, whatever. The way,
I think, way more accessible and maybe the, you
know, remember this nebulous group of people
that don't have so much influence on those things.
I feel like they're... a better avenue for queer
representation. But while I say that, I also
know that there are people who spread disinformation
and, like, pretend to be, you know, allies, but
they're really not. So I guess it really takes
a lot of media literacy. So the question is,
how do we really get people to understand what
isn't? you know an agenda what is genuine when
it comes to you know uh let's say understanding
uh something like queerness i feel like maybe
in the past maybe like at least 10 years ago
maybe television at least american television
did a really good job of representing uh queer
struggles like there were a lot of shows that
i thought were really really They really moved
me and really gave me perspective. Like, I thought
I knew quite a bit, but, you know, I'm always
too used to this. What I could think of is a
show called Pose, and that's on, and I don't
know if you've watched it. What I really enjoyed,
and that's... Why shouldn't you have watched
it? Yeah. It's absolutely one of my favorite
American TV shows. I love it. Yeah, it really
encompasses a lot of the struggles of gays and
transgender people, especially during the 80s.
But a time when, like, I think a lot of people
weren't even aware. I really do feel like America
has a good job of presenting those struggles.
Yes, it does. Used to, yeah, I don't see it so
much. I guess the latest would be, the closest
thing would be, like, Euphoria, which had, like,
pure teenagers. And Wonderland's a treat, so
I don't know. I'm not really, as a person, the
show Euphoria, it's kind of felt, and it's doing
good, I guess. But yeah, and I guess South Africa
doesn't have that kind of entertainment as of
yet. Am I wrong? It sounds like it's just reality
TV shows, and they're not very helpful. I think
you've touched on something. I think America,
you know, the US has done amazingly when it comes
to the stories of the individuals. Now you talk
about Pose, which has, you know, absolutely one
of the best, best LGBTQI plus TV shows that I've
ever watched. You know, I think for me, it's
the first of its kind. It was the first time
for me watching a TV series. that literally touches
on almost each and every aspect of being queer.
I mean, like South Africa, we are still a new
democracy. As I've said, we've come a long way,
but we still have a long way to go. Our country
is like 31 years old this year in terms of democracy.
In terms of the new constitution, we are literally
31 years into this democracy thing. So I think
we still have a long way to go, but I must say
we've come a very long way. i must say most of
the shows that i've watched um that literally
portrays queer identities have always been from
the us or from the not from from from europe
so i think you guys have done incredibly well
um in terms of content that is inclusive and
is diverse and um tells the stories of queer
individuals i think now that you've made those
few examples i think I'm also having flashbacks
and I'm thinking about other examples that I've
watched from American TV shows. I think you guys
have done so great. But in South Africa, we're
still very young. But I must say, I must commend
that South Africans have come a long way in terms
of accepting, in terms of being inclusive. We
are doing the best we can, but we still have
a long way to go. I completely agree with you.
I went back to South Africa. This is how I heard
about you, actually. Yeah. From the Sofan hostel.
I stayed at that hostel for two months. And I
told him about the podcast and he was like, oh,
like, write the question. And I was like, what
is that? And he was like, you should message
him on Instagram. Oh, I'm like, okay. And here
we are. And the reason I'm pointing that out
is specifically because on TikTok, the community
is so strong. And walking down the street, it's
the first time I've ever walked down the street
that wasn't like a clearly LGBTQ plus positive
country like Thailand, where you can see a brown
flag on the streets. And that was... To me, that
was, that just blew me away. I went to four cities.
I went to Johannesburg, Victoria, and Durban.
I've kept up in 10 days. For the first time,
it was my first time going to South Africa as
a queer woman. Yeah. And every single city's
experience was drastically different. And it
just shows you, like, that's it. the country
has come a long way the cultures in the different
regions have separated in such a way that you
can kind of feel where the progress is happening
yeah just by being there but yeah right it's
rapidly improving every every year i went to
south africa to change my my people documents
to do the application and i was terrified I haven't
gone back, and I guess it was an error, but the
manager of the Department of DHA, Department
of Public Affairs, the loveliest guy, we had
a long chat. He filled in the paperwork for me
to make sure there were no errors. Respectful.
Amazing. That is beautiful. And I must say, I'm
so glad that you mentioned something about K
-Town. which is the city that I live in. I think
sometimes for me, it was not so difficult to
do the show that I'm doing because I'm in Cape
Town, which is considered to be the most queer
friendly city in the African continent. And I
must say, I must comment, I must give a shout
out to each and everyone that lives in Cape Town,
whether they're queer or not. The community in
Cape Town, whether you're queer or you're not
queer, everyone in Cape Town is just so friendly
towards and very open -minded towards the queer
community, which is something beautiful that,
you know, tourists come to Cape Town and they
experience that. And they always, you know, tell
us that you guys are so welcoming to the queer
community in Cape Town. And I feel like the city
is absolutely a perfect example. of acceptance,
inclusion, and diversity, you know, in terms
of queer rights, in terms of respecting queer
rights, in terms of protecting queer rights,
in terms of honoring queer rights and honoring
queer individuals. I feel like that is absolutely
amazing that you've mentioned that. And as much
as those stories are being told on television,
I... honestly generally feel like um we need
to tell the stories of chase king is is a queer
man who's running a successful establishment
we need to start to tell the stories of queers
in business you know queers who are running who
are ceos who are entrepreneurs who are business
people and are running successful businesses
we barely don't we don't see those stories on
television And I feel like it's time that we
see those stories as well. I'm so glad that you've
mentioned Chase King. I've got one episode on
this show, on Pride the Queer Show, that celebrates
queers in business, people who are queer and
are running incredible, successful establishments.
And that is one episode that I wanted us to put
out there so that people can see that it is possible
to be queer. and it is possible to be queer and
be a boss, and be a boss babe, and be the CEO
of a corporation company, be a CEO of a hotel,
be a CEO of an Airbnb, you know? And when I had
that conversation with him, sitting down with
him, I was like, wow, it is actually possible
to be queer and be an entrepreneur, you know?
We shouldn't limit ourselves as queer individuals.
And I'm so glad that he came to Cape Town and
opened that hostel. Please tell him he needs
to open more of these spaces in South Africa,
actually. I'm going to send him this episode.
I'll make sure that he knows I would like you
better than this. Yeah. Okay, I think we should
move on. You don't have a role. We want to go
home. Do you not have a perspective? You go,
Ray. What a perspective. And I had this in my
mind. It's just whatever you're thinking at that
moment, you know? Exactly. Trying to get their
thoughts. Yeah, I'm trying to just make sure
that I articulate myself well. Okay, my perspective
is a quote that I read. You don't love me, you
love the idea. Can you say that again? And specifically,
you don't love me, you love your idea of me.
Okay. And I think that's something that can mean
differently for anyone. You guys. I'm gearing
up to tell a lot more of my own story, a lot
more of the PG... PG -13 and R -18 details that
have never come out. PG -13 -2 are... I'm just
saying that it's interspersed. The whole thing
is definitely not for kids. But I had a conversation
and there are people that I haven't spoken to.
for eight months now. Like, I'm not. I don't
know how to describe it. I've been pretending
to be a son, a brother, for 35 years. And I've
been carrying this thing with me for always.
And I'm finally, I have the courage to tell the
truth. And the message I got back was, no matter
what you do, I'll... always love you, but I have
to protect my future non -existent, current and
non -existent children from this transgender
narrative. And when you're ready to be my brother,
I will be here for you. And I was like, oh, that
was the last. That was the last. Okay. Eight
months ago or that was just now? That was eight
months ago. So. You will talk to this person
again? Or? I don't know. Oh, okay. It's up to
them. I really hate that that person said narrative.
I, if this was just like, that the whole, that
like a transgender person creates this story
that isn't, isn't not real. Like not, not something
that is like a real experience for the person.
I don't know how to say it, like disqualified
by calling it a narrative. It's not real. It's
fiction. That's a side. I just don't like that.
So I'm saying that from the perspective of a
trans person. And I completely get the shock.
The potential taken abackness that you can have
with somebody coming out. But if you're not able
to reconcile with a person. with their identity,
the person that you've known, and realize that
they're still the same person, you don't love
them. You love the idea. You love your idea.
Okay. Say that again. Say that again. I need
to hear that again. You don't love me. You love
your idea. Right. But then you also said something
like they're not really themselves. Something
like that. Am I making sense? Because what I
was thinking was... You're not totally separate
from a past self. It's always who you were. I'm
not saying that I'm separate from the past self.
I wish you could go. I wish you could rewind.
Exactly. I haven't changed. Yeah. I'm still the
same person. Yes. I've been pretending to be
someone else. To be not someone else. Just a
different person. I've been dressing. I've been
forcing myself. Right. To do something that I
don't want to do in or out of a place of fear
and in a place of not knowing. This is something
that I want to tell you as well. I want to give
queer creators a platform. That's what I want
to do. Because if I had known before my life
changed the way it has now, my life would have
reached this point much faster. Absolutely. I
have a question because I feel like you're saying
this happened, let's say, eight months ago. You're
saying the person didn't love you. They love
their own version of who you are, right? But
deep down, you know, because it seems like if
you had the conversation with the person, deep
down, Do you believe that the person doesn't
love you? Or deep down, it's just a matter of
they are finding it difficult now to accept who
you are. Because there are two things, right?
There's love, which is something that you can
erase easily and wake up tomorrow and say, I
don't love Sinaloa. That is impossible. But there's
acceptance, right? Yeah, I will always love you.
Then there's acceptance. You know, we need to
always find the balance between the other person
loves me. Okay, probably they love me. Maybe
they're finding hard to accept who I am. Do you
feel like maybe that's the case with what has
happened to you? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So,
maybe rephrase. You love your idea of what you
want me to be. Yeah. And I'm saying this in a
trans context because that's easy for me to withdraw
from. And I'm also thinking not about people
who are struggling to come to terms with being
out. I'm specifically talking to people who do
the harsh cutoff and don't become. And I think
that they still love them. The love is still
there, right? The feeling, the connection, the
memories, that's not erasable. Yeah. But if you
are more attached to that than the person who
is real and there in your life, even if they've
changed, that is cause for serious introspection.
I think, fair enough. But how do you get this
person, how do you get... Oh, it's not, it's
not something that you can enforce. Yeah. I can't
hear you. You're breaking. It's the point where
they decide to have an inspection. It's not something
you can force. You have to wait for them to do
that by themselves. And what's person to do that?
That's my question. Can you hear us? You guys
are breaking a bit. Ray, you're fine. I can hear
you clearly. It's because your beard has been
touched. Don't say it. You're embarrassing me.
You're shaving me. I just saw, Ray, I just saw
a flat behind you. I was like, let me just bring
something as well. I was like, okay, you've got
a flat behind you. Let me just have something
with me as well. It's beautiful. I thought this
for him today. Yes, I was pumped. I was really
surprised. It was a good surprise. I want to
put it somewhere though where the world can see
it. Can I? I wanted to bring it to work. Ruby
said don't do it. I want to hear your question
before I tell you something. Oh, sorry. No, I
don't have a question. I just wanted to add in
a perspective, actually. I feel like I understand.
where you come from in terms of you don't love
me you love this image this idea of that you
have of me you know there is you know the um
i get told all the time right by friends people
who are close to me people around me that you
know i love the kind of gay men that you are
and i'll be like what kind of a gay man i am
I love the fact that you're not wearing wigs
and heels and stuff. And I'm like, what if I
were to wake up tomorrow, put on a wig and heel?
Would that change the love that you have for
me? You know? I don't think so. And I'll get
answers such as, I wouldn't be able to go out
with you and party with you if you're wearing
heels. Or I'll get answers like, I wouldn't be
able to, you know. be in the same and relax and
chill with you in the same space you know so
I'm like okay you are accepting me being a gay
man but there are certain things that you think
you don't want me to do as a gay man so you are
dictating my gayness right now you are telling
me I'm accepting this I'm accepting you to this
extent if you go beyond that you're on your own
it's like the allies okay so your friends allyship
is a performance if that makes sense you know
they're performing being allied they don't really
care about you it's conditional like you said
you're not the right kind of gay man like if
you wear whatever they quit or walk around with
a dress and you're too i don't know flamboyant
and they're not just wanting to like what about
straight drag queens are they their own kind
of straight or is it okay for them to wear high
heels like well you'd have to that would have
to apply that like a drag queen is just existing
in the world throughout their day not performing
on stage at night in a very specific context
okay fair what about but i'm thinking of straight
cross -dressing that you actually don't cross
-dress Yeah. So, is it love that comes with terms
and conditions? Right? Yeah, exactly. That's
my point. I mean, honestly, it should. Like,
good love, true love, you know, what would we
think? For me, I think all love has a condition.
Oof. Yeah. All right. Let's hear it. That condition
is hate and rejection. The only kind of person
that I remember a lot is a fascist or racist
or someone who starts to come into that direction
where they hate someone or dislike someone or
reject someone because of who they are, not because
of what they've done. Yeah. I don't know how
to respond to that. You just sunblocked me. I'll
love you if you're not a bad person. Okay. I'll
love you if you're good. It's more than just
being a bad person. You can love a bad person.
Yeah. But there comes a point where you cannot
justify that anymore. You can't justify that
feeling. And I don't see how... There comes a
point where... Nobody should be able to justify
wanting to be around someone who behaves in certain
ways. And you can see it in lots of ways. For
example, say women who survive domestic violence
situations, and they go back to that moment.
Why do they go back to that? And then they go
through the kid. Attachment, attachment style.
Yeah, I know. It's like that magically, women
from society and they should be harmed, right?
Like that woman should be harmed. Why does she
go back? Like, how do you justify, how does she
justify it? And she could be murdered in that
situation. Yeah. And that's not like this. violence
is absolutely unjustifiable and he might go on
living in society after giving... Yeah, I mean,
you'd hope that. You would hope that, but it
happens. Sure. Anyway, sorry. I don't know enough,
but the reason this is in my mind right now is
because before this show, I watched Donald Trump
say or insinuate that domestic violence is not
a crime. I mean, objectively, a crime is only
defined as a crime. Domestic violence is defined
as a crime. He went on to say, crime rates are
much lower than reported because if a man has
a fight with their wife at home, It's reported
as a crime. It's not a crime. I feel it. What's
the name of our political podcast? You love talking
about Trump. Say nothing when it comes to Trump.
It's not a crime. You know. I don't know. He's
a shit staying on here. He's actively raising
trans friends. Yes. it's flowing around the world
so it's yeah it's something that i think about
constantly anyway um the reason i wanted to say
not for the reason to take this is because i
i'm not going to just found my own worker because
i feel rather stressed yeah so don't take this
to work because i still kind of want to take
it it's not even doing anything i just feel like
it's a cool flight yeah that's what i believe
in the in the in the scope of The education we
teach, it's a perfectly suitable thing to put
in a classroom. Yes, but I was also a perfectly
suitable teacher to have in a classroom. Yeah,
you were the teacher. I'm just not a joke. It's
true. You have to laugh about it. Yeah. Anyway,
I think that's my perspective. You have to bring
us something like party. Okay. Well, you know,
I got perfect. It is kind of like art. Yeah.
We need, we need. Okay. A little bit lighter.
I'm kind of a crotch field, man. I was watching
a video. You know, when I wake up in the morning,
I get ready to go to work. I can't not be listening
to something because I just don't, I don't want
to deal with my own inner silence. So I like
to just watch videos of random people's perspectives,
you know, much like our podcast. So this is something
you hear all the time. There's always someone
on the internet saying, when it comes to like
financial life, don't live beyond your means.
I always regret that. There's always something
under my... and didn't spend so much money, yada,
yada, yada. But something they always come to
is, I should have spent more of my money on experiences
and topics. Now, my take is, it doesn't matter
what you spend your money on. You're still spending
your money on something. And maybe to disagree
with you, but the idea of spending money on...
an experience like travel is to me just another
it's another ruse it's just a newer bourgeois
sentiment now you're always spending your money
on something that is finite it doesn't last and
you're always going to look for another experience
to spend your money on whereas if you buy things
you can't keep buying things because eventually
you have too much things and maybe you're gonna
Yeah. Do you have to deal with your existential
angst? You've got too much crap. But my take
is no matter what you spend your money on, you're
still spending your money on something. And it
doesn't matter if it's a vacation experience.
It doesn't matter if it's, you know, whatever.
I wish I could give you a high five right now.
Do away with the whole, you know. find more experiences
yeah i i want like i want to give you a high
five for that i totally i totally agree with
you literally and this is a conversation i'm
so glad that you literally brought this on on
the table this is a conversation that my birth
my boyfriend i usually have all the time right
I believe in spending money. When you spend money
on something at that particular time, trust me,
trust you me, you wanted to spend your money
on that thing. And at that point of time, spending
your money on that particular thing fulfilled
your heart. It's what you wanted to do at that
particular time. My boyfriend always talks about
buying houses, buying cars. and just spend money
on something that you can point and see. And
I always tell him that for me, it's all about
the experience. You know, I always spend money
on things that I will 10 years later be like,
wow, that was such a great experience for me.
That is such a great memory. I always tell him
about traveling, that when I have money, I always
travel across South Africa because for me, that
is a great experience. for him it's like no you
can't just travel and spend um 3 000 us dollars
on traveling or 20 000 rands on traveling you
need to invest on buying a house you need to
buy a car um and i'm like but spending money
on what you want to spend on it's something that
you wanted to do at that particular time i don't
care what it is but it's something that you wanted
to do so For me, it's all about experience. I
spend money on things that gives me good experience
and I will always pay for good comfort. But for
him, it's all about, you need to look at something
and point it and say, that's what I spend my
money on. And for me, sometimes it's not about
that. I mean, I'm not adverse to managing your
money, but I don't want people to get caught
up in the ruse that buying an experience is better
than buying a thing. It's all the same. I think
there's a secret travel. Yeah, there's a secret
travel lobbyist. The travel industry is quite,
you know, they can make more money. But they
said, they said just like, let's make travel.
I think, I think big travel is less than a thing
than big anything else, except for airplanes.
Like it depends where you travel and how you
travel because you can, very easily select i
guess you could do with all products but you
can't do it with oil for example if i'm doing
with houses for example like you can travel to
places that aren't controlled by giant corporations
and sending the pockets of yes and then but that's
usually not in in our in our like the site guys
all over the world when people are traveling
for experiences It's pretty big. It's some exotic
place. Oh yeah, for sure. Like, of course. Yeah.
I just, I hate money in general because the idea
that you have to say, how much money do you have
to say to be able to retire? So there's no end.
You go to the problem. Yeah, there's no way of
knowing. Yes, inflation might change. But let's
say an hypothetical vacuum where... Inflation
never changes, right? Your interest rate was
starting to set. You need, let's say, $500 ,000
Canadian dollars saved up before you can retire.
That's a lot of money in South Africa. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. $500 ,000 Canadian dollars saved
up and this is going to keep you. enough interest
and perpetuity to maintain a life after you retire.
So you spent 65 years saving up this money. 65
years? That's a little generous. No one works
for 65 years. What? No one works for 65 years.
Generally... Sorry, sorry, sorry. Okay. You worked
for 55 years. When did you start working? When
you were 10? Oh, you've worked for 40 years.
Oh, you've worked for 40 years. You've worked
for 40 years. Okay. You've worked for 40 years.
Okay. To save this money so that you can live
fruitively off of the little money that you can
save. Yeah. And then you can't use that money
because if you use it, you won't have enough
interest to live. What is the point when you
say it like that? But I assume if you're doing
the right investment, what I understand is you
invest in something called a basket. I'm not
a financial guru. I don't know. You invest a
certain amount of money and then it gets a certain
percentage of interest every year. It gets bigger
and bigger and bigger. And then by the time you're
ready to retire or not, you can't work, then
you can live off that interest, hopefully. Yeah,
sure. I say, you sent me a video recently. And
my opinion is, screw that. Diversify income to
a point where you don't need to invest. Yes.
You don't need to keep this like giant pool of
money that you can never touch. What a dream.
Yeah. And you can just do the things, like invest
into passion projects or run a coffee shop and
just write all the time. Some of us are really
boring. We don't have passion projects. So all
we can depend on is the interest. And if you
don't have a passion project, you need to find
one. Yeah, well, that's a really good point,
actually. If you don't have interests... You
should probably find entrances because it's probably
not healthy to just be a lunk and not do anything.
I feel like besides this, that's me lately. Nothing
more satisfying than coming home and just watching
TV. I just like a lot of computer news. I think
that's a good, I don't think playing video games
is a bad thing. I think nowadays, I mean, hey,
there you go. Diversify, baby. Get on that Twitch
account. Why don't you have people watch you
play games? I like playing video games, but over
the past couple of months it's just been too
busy trying to find people to talk to. They want
this and that. I'm the fun guy and making content
and writing. I just have a lot of time. You say
that like it's a bad thing. No, it's not a bad
thing. I love my life right now. There's so much
to do. I don't know if we went off on a tangent
from my original point. What's your perspective
on money? Oh, yeah, sure. I like learning about
how people deal with money. That's one of my
interests. What is my perspective on money? I
absolutely believe in investment. As I said,
like you've mentioned that in South Africa, you
retire at the age of 65, right? And you need
to have enough money that it's going to... yeah
that's going to literally make sure that you
have a stuff thing you can sustain your lifestyle
until you die um so i believe that you need to
invest money especially for someone who works
in the entertainment industry i once got asked
this question kicking off my career at the age
of 20 what would ha what would i have done differently
in terms of money i i said i would have saved
more and spend less money on clothes, and spend
less money on traveling too much, and spend less
money on partying, right? And instead of buying
clothes for each and every event that I went
to, because I could partially go to four events
a week, and I could literally have to buy four
outfits a week. I said, I only realized eight
years later in my career that I could have rented
out those outfits. I did not have to buy those
outfits. I could have literally, instead of buying
four outfits, I could have literally went to
a designer, a boutique and say, hi, I'm Sinaloa.
I work for a television show. I need this clothes.
I will give you 50 % and I'll return them later.
The following day, you know, so now that I'm
like, 10 years into the industry, I believe in
investments and saving so much. And of course,
finding projects that I know that if I start
with projects in 2025, I know in 2035, this project
is going to generate so much money. So that's
literally me right now. I think I spent my 20s
blowing money. I think I need to be featured
on an episode of I blew it. And talk about how
I blew money in my 20s. Because, yeah. So, now
it's all about... I got the only one. Really?
Okay. That's good. I feel just like... I just
feel like all 20 -year -olds are pretty wrapped
up in money. It has a different perspective on
that. Different experience. You want to talk
about some of your... Did you blow your money
in your 20s? Who lives to spend? Are you in Kwanhaa?
You went to work in your 20s. Well, I didn't
have much money, but I was getting paid enough
to sustain my life as a 20 -year -old. And I
feel like if I had taken some of that money and
invested, as you said, Dre, and invested in projects
that I literally was passionate about, I would
be ripping. I would be enjoying the benefits
right now. So for me. I don't come from a poor
family, but individually, I was not wealthy.
And I wasn't able to sustain myself. I wouldn't
have been able to rent a house and go to the
place where I was working. I couldn't find a
job. And I went to Thailand, and that's when
I started living. And then I was spending all
of the money that I was saving traveling back
home. Yeah. So that was a huge setback. And then
I went to a German company. I came to China and
the same thing was happening. And then COVID
happened and I went into a huge amount of debt.
I was about three, oh, sorry, maybe not my, 500
,000 grand in debt. How much is that? RME me.
Oh, there you go. That is someone's salary in
South Africa. That is someone's paycheck. A year's
worth of work. Yeah, I was about $200 ,000. And
now, this is the first time in my life where
I have enough money in the bank to be able to
sustain myself for... a significant amount of
time without being paid. And I have zero debt.
Well, that's what they say. Watching old people
on YouTube talk about life and money, they say,
what are you doing? That's where they wish they
were. They always wish they had enough money
to sustain themselves in case they couldn't afford
it for a while. Yeah, it's no longer paycheck
to paycheck, but for a very, very long time it
was. Now I live like I live paycheck. But you
are definitely not paycheck to paycheck. No,
I'm very stingy. Yeah, you're like me. Don't
worry, we only have a place to stay. I wouldn't
say I'm stingy, but I think I just, now I'm just
like, you know what? I'm in my 30s. I just need
to be more careful what I spend money on. I was
all about spending money on experience. And I
don't regret it, trust me. I'm so glad that I've
experienced a lot in my 20s. I don't regret any
of that. But I still wish maybe I could have
put at least 10 % away. You still can't, you
know? Yeah, I still have a long way to go. Yeah,
I still think I still care. Listen, Sonala, we're
going to get rich. We're going to be. Let me,
okay. Now, I've got an interesting question.
Yeah. Last couple of questions. Okay. Well, I'll
give you my last one. Okay. I have a question.
As a LGBTQ plus folks. How is mine treated? How
do LGBTQ people. I agree. Yeah, I've come to
do that. What's your question? How is my country?
Yeah. So, like, I'm thinking of, like, okay,
I'm sure some epidemic someone has written, you
know, about the relationship between queerness
and money. And money. Yeah. Is it different as
two queer folks? For me, it's not different.
But maybe Sinan has more perspective as he runs
and, you know. bigger circles of an LGBTQ, you
know, LGBTQ community. It's so hard to always
say that. How do the people around you, you know,
view money? Is it something, like, they gotta
live their best life? You know? Seize the day.
And do you think that is, if it happens, is it
specific to, you know, let's say queer culture,
a lot better? Well... I'm not going to say much
on that, but I'm not sure if Ray is, maybe this
happens in the US, right? But I think for me,
there is this idea that if you're a gay man,
I'll talk about gay men. If you're a gay man,
that automatically means you've got money. Not
sure if maybe that's the same kind of mindset
in the States. But in South Africa, being gay
is automatically attached to being successful
and having money. Very interesting. I don't know.
I still need to also try to figure out where
does that mentality come from. Maybe it's how
we live as gay people, that we're so fleshy and
flamboyant. and that automatically people think
that we have money and we're smart and we're
successful, we're rich. For example, people often
say you can't be gay and not be successful because
every gay man that has created something or has
done something, they become the master of that
thing. Now there's this pressure that if you're
gay and you're getting into an industry or you're
getting into a job sector, You're getting into
whatever you're getting into. You need to be
the best. I don't know why is that, but I also
think for me as a gay man, that was a situation
where I said, if no one has my back, I need to
have my back. So everything that I've done in
my life as a gay man was to prove people wrong
or was to say, I need to have everything in my
life put together. So if the world doesn't accept
who I am, at least I've got an income. I've got
a successful career. I've got money. I can rely
on myself. Also, I think it's a coping mechanism
as gay men that we need to be successful in what
we do. So that if the world rejects you, at least
you're educated enough. You're successful enough.
You've got your own money. But I also don't know
whether this idea of being gay and having money,
how do they correspond? That when you're gay,
it ultimately is your money, you know? And there's
a bit of classism as well. I would say there
is a bit of classism. Yeah, definitely. I think
that that's definitely an interesting point of
view because I'm on that right now. You can't
hear me? I'm on that right now. I've made a lot
of preparation in order to kind of prevent, what
if the world doesn't accept me? What if I end
up in a space that I definitely don't want to
be in? Yeah. So I think that's definitely true.
That comes from, that's one reason why gay people
have my... And maybe because it's just like doomsday
brother. Doomsday brother. Doomsday money. You
have to be prepared. It's terrifying. Yeah. And
I think a lot of, tell me if I'm wrong, this
is an anecdotal observation. Gay men tend to
come out earlier than a lot of other queer folks.
And so they have more time to prepare. I wonder
how interesting that is. check as a sister. They
come into that realization that like, oh damn,
I need to be ready. And so they become more frugal
and they save more money earlier. And maybe there's
a less of a stigma attached to gayness. That
is actually true because most of gay men, including
myself, we become comfortable in our sexuality.
when we have achieved a lot in our lives. When
we have achieved certain things in our lives,
let's say you've moved out of home, you've bought
a house or you've got an apartment, you've got
a car, you've got a stable job. Now you feel
like, okay, now I can tell people who I am, what
I identify as. I don't care who says what. Maybe
that's also, maybe that's also why. It's a thing
for me. It's something that happened for me.
Now, this is going to sound like I'm just agreeing,
but that is actually the thought I have. Really?
Yes. Like gay men, you know, self -actualize
sooner, therefore become more successful and,
you know, get more money, have more assets, whatever.
And I think there is. People are welcome to do
the research, but pretty sure. At some point
in, like, history, maybe the early 2000s, gay
couples were more, like, statistically more successful
in life and had more money and assets. Why? I
mean, that's what I assumed. I was like, that
must be why. It could be male privilege. Male
privilege. It could also come from the fear of
rejection. Yeah. I think it could also be driven
by the fear of... of being rejected. You know,
if you come out at the age of 15 and you're rejected
by your family, what now? You know? If you come
out at the age of 25, when you've got everything,
you've got a stable job, you've got an income,
you've got your own place, and your family rejects
you, at least you're not going to be homeless
after that. You've already created your own income.
You've already created your own... circle of
friends you've already created your own sense
of community outside your family so if your parents
says we are rejecting you at least we've got
people that are gonna support you at least you've
got a place to sleep at least you've got an income
every month i think it comes from a place of
the fear of rejection um if you do it at an early
age you might be rejected you might be homeless
if you do it later in life Whether they reject
you or not, you're not asking for their permission
to be gay. Yeah. One thing I want to say. Sorry.
Yeah. For me, being in a place of financial security,
finance definitely gave me more courage to explore
my own identity and be able to only match who
I am. Yeah. Yeah, I think. It definitely makes
a lot of sense because you need the resources
and that safety net. Luigi has that giant safety
net. He saves all his money because it's big
in here. Yes, to a fault. No, but it's not particularly
good. I say it all the time. Every episode at
least. I gotta work on that. It can't make you
miserable, you know, if you don't live well.
Definitely. I'll ask your questions. If it's
going to be an easy one, yes. Are you going to
a big party tonight? Because you look amazing.
I know you're going to an event. Yeah. Did you
rent the clothes you're wearing? I know I'm going
to change. Oh, right. But you look good enough
to go. Thank you. Another thing is I could wear
this, but the weather is a bit windy outside.
I might be... cold getting we are in spring now
so we chase in summer our spring in town has
a different weather from the rest of the african
continent our spring is very cold we in spring
but it's a bit cold i would love to wear this
but let's say around 5 p .m south african time
i would get cold so i need to change into something
else yeah also i just wore this because i was
like i'm indoors it's quite warm the windows
are closed because i don't want outside noise
and it's warm here yeah i think we should probably
do that so what was this what was the question
again sorry did you ask your question that was
the question where are you going tonight so i
since i've started the show pride the queer show
i've been getting a lot of requests you know
to attend um queer events to be part of panels
and queer events to be part of um to be part
of to cover queer events for my show but tonight
i'm going to a queer space a queer club called
manhattan avenue it's right here in cape town
it's a beautiful queer um club it's amazing it's
one of those spaces where you feel safe as a
queer individual so i've been invited they've
got an event tonight it's um It's open to each
and everyone who's queer and, of course, allies.
Everyone wants to go. So they invited me to come
through. They want me to tell the audience about
my show, to go on stage and tell the audience
about the work that I do on television with the
show. So they invited me to come at the event
to actually inform people and advertise my show.
So I think that is a great opportunity for me
to actually do that. I mean, like, we are 11
episodes into the show. Tomorrow is our 10th.
Then next week, 11th episode. So we're almost
done with this season. So I think, yeah, I'm
going. I'm not going to spend much time. I'll
probably spend two hours, come back and sleep.
That's it. So it's an event at Manhattan Avenue.
Absolutely one of the best gay places in gay
town. Would you like to tell our listeners about
your social media accounts and how they can find
you? All right. So if you are all the way from
the U .S. or from Europe or from Middle East
and you'd like to follow me, it's simple. You
can find me on all social media platforms. I'm
Senado Jonas, whether it's Facebook, TikTok,
Instagram, LinkedIn, X slash Twitter. I'm Sinalo
Jonas all over. And of course, you can follow
the show on Instagram. It's at Pride The Queer
Show. Or you can just hashtag us if you want
to communicate with us. Hashtag Pride The Queer
Show. So it's easy to find me. It's at Sinalo
Jonas throughout. I told you I'm not cool enough
for social media. You can contact me through
me. I'm happy. And Susan is not ready to share.
It's kind of lame. I need to post more. I also
don't post as often, guys. Be on social media
and update your friends. I'm firefromheat on
Instagram. heatfromfire on TikTok. And rudelyrandio
on YouTube. Get it. Thank you so much for coming
on our show. So, if you don't mind. I'm going
to stop the recording. Just stay on the line
for a little bit to check if your upload is finished.
Okay, cool. When are you guys coming to South
Africa? Hi there, it's Ray again. If you've stuck
all the way through to the end, again, I am so
sorry for the poor quality of audio this time.
I'm working on permanent solutions and learning
as I go. I've had such fun growing this podcast,
you know. Yeah, if you have any suggestions or
things that you think I should try. Please let
me know. Let me know if there's content. Let
me know if you want to be on the show. I would
be glad to have you. I'm also starting another
podcast called In Confidence. You can send me
your confidential stories, the stories that don't
normally get to see the light of day, and I'm
going to read them and share them. You're also
welcome to come onto the show anonymously or
not. and share your story with me. It's something,
it's a bit of a passion project. I'm not sure
how it's going to work, but I'm really excited.
And if you want to see a lot of that, more content,
of course, don't forget to like and subscribe.
You can find, also comment in the doobly -doo.
You can find... sinalo at sinalo jonas on instagram
tiktok x he's not on youtube um and you can find
pride the queer show at pride the queer show
on instagram i'm not sure if they're on tiktok
as well don't forget to stream anyway have a
good one love you bye