Hi. You know how some conversations don't just
pass time, but they leave fingerprints? This
one is like that. In this episode of Kaleidoscope,
I'm joined by Maya Androldia. Two women who are
sharp, grounded, and completely unafraid to speak
from the heart. Let's start off as a casual catch
up turns into a conversation about what it means
to believe in something, what it means to belong
somewhere, and what it means to be yourself,
even when the world keeps handing you scripts
that just don't fit. We talk about faith, but
not the spiritual kind. We talk about family,
not the ones you're born to, but the ones that
choose you back. And we talk about freedom, not
the big abstract idea. but the freedom that lives
within you, between the breaths you take from
one moment to the next. It's unpolished, but
it's alive and it's divided in two. This is part
A and part B will come soon. So come sit with
us. You don't need to know anything. Just bring
yourself. Welcome to Kaleidoscope. Welcome to
Kaleidoscope, perspectives beyond the surface.
I'm Ruby Rain Leo. Today, I have two of my brand
new online friends, Raldia and Maya. Oh, should
I say Raldia? Raldia. Raldia. And the beautiful
Maya and the beautiful Raldia. Today we are going
to talk about how we perceive and experience
life and ask each other questions about that
and just see where that goes. So thanks for joining
us. Thanks for having us, Ruby. This is so nice.
Thank you. Do you guys want to introduce yourself?
Yeah. My name is Raldia. I live in Bucharest,
Romania. I work for an IT company. I have a boring
office job. Although my office is my balcony
and I get to spend time with my babies. The best
office. Yeah. Some of the things I enjoy doing
is being out in nature, reading. listening to
music, talk about life with my friends, and just
experience myself in different stages of my life
and enjoying myself. Amazing. Thanks, Travia.
Thank you, Valdia. Okay, so I'm Maya. I'm American,
but I'm a Latina first. I will always claim that
first. I'm in Texas, so that's where I am in
the global. fan of things, right? I guess I'll
do a similar intro to you, Valdira. I'm a project
manager, so very detail -oriented, kind of always
on task. Hard to get away from that, by the way.
Very, very hard. And we'll talk a little more
about that as I'm talking about my prompt. But
when it comes to me, who am I? I'm somebody who
is naturally an introvert. I like to spend my
me time In solitude. If I was in your room, I
would just live with those plants. Like I would
never leave that room. Like that's where I would
be. Yeah. They're beautiful. I love nature. I
love photography. I love poetry. I love reading.
I love the smell of books. So I like to go to
bookstores and just walk around aisle by aisle.
I know what you mean. I used to work in a bookstore.
That was my first job. Yep. Yep. But that smell
just does something to my brain. You know, books.
Yeah. Yeah. So it smells so good. It's the same
thing with coffee. I love coffee. And I think
for being a Latina, I have a very different perspective
than a lot of people, just because I have done
a lot of inner work in comparison to other people
that are my age and with my background. But hi,
thank you for having me. Thank you for being
here. I've never done that for the podcast, so
I will do it too. I am Ruby Ray Liu. I am a teacher
in Suzhou, China, and I am originally from South
Africa. I've been living in China for 10 years
in October. That will be 10 years. And if you
want to know more, listen to more podcasts. I
have set up this random wheel spinner thing.
I've just taken our missing compatriot out and
I'm gonna spin this and we'll see who gets to
go first with their prompt. Okay, sounds good.
It is Maya. How did I know that? The last one
to send it in, right? And the first one to go.
Okay, so my prompt was very spontaneous. Let
me tell you. I didn't want to give it too much
thought because I wanted it to be fresh on my
mind today. So all of my life, I felt that I
had to fit in a box, whether that was as a kid,
as an adult, right? Whether it was because I
was a Latina or a woman or whatever box people
put me in. As I grew up, I kind of started feeling
this resentment towards it, almost like hatred
towards that box, right? And where I was placed.
And so I began in my journey, probably after
I turned 27, I think, I began to slowly like
rip away at it. And it was little by little ripping,
ripping, ripping until I was finally free from
it. So now in my thirties, I actually feel more
like myself. I feel free to be whoever. and whatever
I want to be. And it's amazing. Yeah. Beautiful
to hear. Really, really beautiful. Thank you.
That speaks really deeply to me and my process
and experience of life right now. But we'll wait
for that. Valdia, do you want to ask first or
should I go? Well, you can go, I can, I can.
You mentioned that at like 24 or, sorry, 27,
you started opening this box. How has your identity
changed in that process and how do you feel now
that you're outside of it? It reminds me of that
movie, like, was it 30, 30 and... Yeah, yeah,
30 or 30, yeah, yeah. So for me, it just turned
into, I got to a point that I didn't really recognize
myself and be it that we all grow, right? We
all grow and there's different versions of ourselves
in different point of our lives. But as I approached
30, it was like, is this really who I am at my
core? are the things around me, the people around
me, really making me happy, right? That Marie
Kondo documentary came out around that time too.
And it was like, does this spark joy? Does this
bring you happiness? So it kind of put a lot
of things in perspective because as a young child,
young adult, I read a lot and I wrote a lot and
I spent a lot of time reflecting. And I found
that in my 20s I was so busy just being whoever
people wanted me to be that I was no longer holding
those values like as something that really mattered.
I was no longer really reading. I was no longer
because the books that I was reading were books
that my then partner wanted me to read. Like
we should read this book together. And I was
having an identity crisis. It was like But these
are not the things I want to read. These are
not the things I want to do. I was also part
of organized religion, like huge. I was part
of all the little meetings and this and that
at a local church. And it was like, are these
people making me happy? Are they allowing me
to grow? And I found that it wasn't. If anything,
they were trying to fit me into this salt box
of what my faith should be, of who I should be.
It's like, oh. you're a woman follow your husband
oh you're this do this oh you cannot lead you
cannot do this you have to do this um and as
i started as you called it opening the box i
call it ripping it because it was literally that
for me it was getting away from people it was
leaving that organized religion it was seeking
my own truths that i just ripped and ripped and
ripped until we're at the point where I am now
and it's like I decide where what I want to do
I decide what I want to read I decide who I want
to be today and if tomorrow I want to be a different
person then damn it I'll be a different person
like it doesn't matter because I get to make
that choice no one else is making that choice
for me as a child especially a Latina it's a
saying it's called Right? And you know what that
means? If you're quiet, you look prettier. If
you're a quiet little girl, you look prettier.
So it's that submissive mindset of just being,
just sit there and look pretty. You're just a
doll. They used to call me a mñeka when I was
little. I was just a doll. I would just sit next
to my mom in my frilly little dress and not say
a word. And inside, in my mind, I had so many
thoughts about everything. Wow. So. Are you still
are you still religious today? Like not completely?
No, I am. I'm what you would consider agnostic.
OK, I believe, you know, in a higher power, but
not in the one that is manmade. Fair enough.
Yeah, so I've also become... I'm now an atheist.
You could call me agnostic because I hope there
is a power, but I can't say that I believe in
one. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. I have so many things
to say, but will that really ask me? What I want
to ask you, Maya... is what were some of the
tools that you found effective to move away,
step away from that and allow yourself to be
the person that you are today? I think getting
back into reading and writing because that's
how I explored myself when I was young, right?
And that's how I processed all of my emotions.
So getting back into that. I think helped a lot.
I don't think it was the only thing because I
also started listening to podcasts. I started
talking to people from different areas, different
walks of life. Like I've never been opposed to
talk to people from different religions or anything
like that. Tell me, teach me. I want to learn.
So I became, I guess a student again of everything.
I wanted to relearn everything. They found this
hunger for the new life. Yep, and that I'm still
there. I'm just obviously right I came on this
app and wanted to make international friends
and was like I need to know more I need to know
what's out there I need to explore and like it's
been this very free moment of There is more to
the life that I have right now. I am still young
enough to choose and make those choices and so
on and so on and so on like Yeah. That's where
I'm at now. I'm so glad to meet the person that
you are today. I'm sure like you were an amazing
person before, but well, but I'm just like very
excited for you to be honest. Very excited for
you to discover yourself, right? Yeah. And I
relate to that. I do relate to that. that's one
of the things that I tell everybody because they're
like oh you're in your 30s and this and that
and I'm like you don't understand my 30s have
been my best years like the best years for me
because I'm you me I'm not some little mold that
people want to use for this or that like it's
just me and yeah it's it's freeing I feel free
do you know that song by Nelly Portal Like a
bird. Like a bird. I don't really know what I'm
hating. Yep, yep, that song. It's literally like,
if you could put a theme song to write down,
I feel like a bird. Like, I can go anywhere.
I can be anything. There's nothing really tying
me. I love my family, adore my family, right?
And we'll always have that tied to them. But
at the end of the day, they don't make me who
I am. And I don't make them who they are. Wow
And That's like I am having family issues right
now, right and I adore my family I grew up in
a super loving family and I wish that they would
understand what you just said like You in you
invite family into your life It's not the other
way around. You're not obligated to have it in
there. Yep. And normally that would be expected,
but sometimes sometimes having them around hurts
more because they are just not I they don't appreciate
who you are. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. Yeah. And
I'm there with you. There have been moments in
my life in this journey. that I had to cut finally
off. Like I didn't speak to my mother or my sister
at different points in life for three, six months.
It varied. But it had to happen because I needed
them to understand that I will always be myself.
And it's either love me for truly who I am and
whatever version it is that I am. Or I will remove
you from my life not because I don't love you.
It's because I love you so much. that if you
feel that you have to put me in this box, then
I can't be there. I will still be wishing you
the best and will still be loving you from afar.
The love will never end. It's just simply, if
that's what you need, I will give it to you.
Yeah. Also, another bird allegory. If you love
it, set it free. Yeah, yeah. I should probably
go get a tattoo of a bird at this point. You
called it tearing away at a box for me. Mine
was a cave. And I was stuck in that cave until
one day. One day there was a cave in. And light
lanced through and pierced me in my eyeballs
and I was so terrified that I crawled deeper
into the cave. And it took... Decades before
I realized that I'm going the wrong way Yep,
and I completely understand that that point of
view too That was me at 25 because you don't
you don't always know that you're in this box
or in this cave or How do you know how do you
know that you're stuck if you've always been
stuck? Yeah This reminds me of Plato's allegory.
Is it Plato? I think it is. Oh gosh, I'm terrible
with philosophers. So there's this allegory like
people that are in the cave can see the shadows
on the on the walls, right? Cast from from the
fire and things moving and they have no idea
what's going on inside that there's a lot outside.
So whoever goes outside then comes back. to share
this experience, they're going to think it's
crazy. You know, so until you don't make that
step to go outside and experience and get out
of your comfort zone and be part of this universe,
of this experience where we are all going through,
you're just going to look at shadows on the wall.
I think that is life and that is how life should
be. lift, you know, because you have people around
you telling you the same thing, seeing the same
thing. Right. And I think that is also why we
need community and we need to once we've made
a decision that, OK, I need to I need to move
on with my life and be whoever I need to be,
whoever I feel that I am to find people that
are either. in this process as well with us and
also people that have went through this process.
In order to support you and support your growth.
Yeah, or even just people that they don't...
Somebody doesn't have to know what you're going
through to be able to say, I can see you're going
through something and I'll be the safe space.
You can come here and feel safe. Yep. Yeah, and
I don't know. I'll go ahead. It's rare to find
people like that. At least it has been rare for
me. Like finding people with high emotional intelligence,
right? Yeah, and I wish I could meet more people
like this. I'm sorry, I'm just gonna fix my mic
because I'm being attacked. If anything, it went
on with the, you know, light piercing your eyeball.
Yeah, right? It went with that. Yeah, but you
made me think of yet another bird allegory. It's
the, well, analogy, technically, it's the birds
of a feather flock together or in Spanish, you
know, tell me who your friends are. And I've
been hearing that like all my life. My mom is
the one that taught me that. But it's so true.
If you want to change your perspective and change
who you are and open that box or get out of that
cave or rip the box or whatever it may be, you
have to change the people that you surround yourself
with. Somehow, some way. And I've always considered
that it's better to have like one, two, three
friends that truly know you, accept you. And
even if they're not in the same walk of life,
As you. They can at least open their arms and
say, talk to me. I am here. So can you change
your feathers? Yes. Yes, you can. Did you know
that a crow changes their feathers? The colors
of their feathers look the darkest, but if you
shine light on them, you'll see turquoise and
different jewel tones. Yeah, we can all be changed.
Why I I Don't know if I agree or disagree with
the on this one like changing I I have Let's
say an issue with with opposites in general and
I like to place myself in the middle usually
The thing about about change I'm questioning
whether It's actually a change, or it's just
another part of us we discovered. Because we
can't just look back and say, that wasn't me.
Because it's part of your experience. And for
me, it's hard to call it like I'm a different
person now. And I agree with you on that. I agree
with you too. What I think changes is the perception
that people have about us. So in reality, you
become a different person. But in ours, the crow
is still the same crow that we've shone a light
on it. We just unlocked another level. Yeah.
Or think of like a baby bird, right? They have
the fluffy little feathers. They're fluffy. Those
have to fall off for the other feathers to come
out. They never change per se. It's just part
of life. It has to happen. However, you will
have birds that never release all of those baby
feathers. And I think that's where some people
stay at. Some people hold on and maybe don't
want to adapt or don't want to allow that change
to occur. So they hold on so tightly. They're
just sitting in the comfort zone. And I think
for me, luckily, now I have thrived in the uncomfortable
zones that I no longer fear it, no longer dismiss
it. It's just simply, okay, that's difference.
Let's see what that brings. I have a bird -soaring
story and out of the comfort zone at the same
time. thing to share that happened to me today.
I never, I try not to talk about this, especially
in the group, not too much, because I am worried
and I know that it's true that a lot of trans
girls can be, they can come across as cringe
about it because they want to speak about it
so often, but it's because it's so exciting.
It's like the biggest thing. that you can experience.
And today, I never thought that I would be able
to get the treatment that I want and need in
China. And it's been unbelievably easy. Actually,
it's been so easy just to once I got over my
initial anxiety to go and see the doctors and
get the prescriptions that I need. And I'm in
this huge Like weird sound with my school, but
it doesn't matter because they can't do anything
anyway today I went to the hospital to refill
my prescription and do blood tests So It's not
every doctor there's only one transpositive job
doctor in Suzhou and That's where I got my prescription
and they are far away So I went to see another
doctor today. I asked for the the test. She said
that's all good and She asked me what else do
I what else she needs to do for me? And I said,
can you give me medicine and she said sure what
medicine? So I took out my prescription from
the other doctor that basically says oh He's
a trans person and She said great I will I'll
give you this meds And she tried to do the prescription,
but the hospital blocked it because my marker
is male. And she said, oh, I can't give you them.
You know what? Let me just change your marker
to female. And then she did it at the hospital
and she still couldn't give me the prescription.
She wrote me a letter and send me to admin. And
she was like, you tell them to change this. And
they did. Yeah, that was like nothing. Like to
not go through so many channels and have to,
you know, have all the uncomfortable conversations
and stuff like that. That's amazing. I'm happy
for you. Thank you. Yeah. And we're so happy.
I'm still getting about it. I'm happy for you.
I love how that breaking those barriers, right?
Little by little. Exactly, and just there's so
much anxiety coming from from the states right
now with Donald Trump's insane vendetta and It's
so nice to see that, you know, it's not everywhere
that's like that and you kind of get inundated
with it I think it's it's it's sad. You know
what's happening at a global scale because it's
just like it's all a political game at the end
for them and for For the people, it's their lives.
It's the quality of their lives. And yeah, it's
pretty sad what's happening. Yeah. I mean, just
to tell you a little bit about Texas, right?
So Texas is known as one of the most conservative
states. Texas acts like its own country. And
it will, for example, if the Republicans within
the country want to test out a theory, want to
test out something and see how people will take
it. They tested in Texas. And that's where I
live. So for example, the anti -abortion laws
and everything are crazy here. I have a blood
disorder, so I could bleed out if I were to become
pregnant. And I were to miscarry for whatever
reason, because obviously I have that blood disorder.
Any pregnancy that I have would be a high -risk
pregnancy. That's just what it is. so it literally
they would just watch me die and they would not
do anything they have there's been I think eight
here in Texas alone now we're talking about women
that were already mothers women that were 18
years old like barely starting life like we're
talking it's it's just ah beyond me like I would
consider leaving Texas To move to Colorado and
I may I may still make that happen And I've already
told my family and they were a little bothered
by it and I said Here's always airplanes. You
can fly to see me. You could drive to see me.
I Can drive to see you you can you know, I can
fly Because like I said nothing really ties me
down I have to put myself first absolutely when
it comes to that That is one of the topics that
really pisses me off. It really makes me angry
when people get to decide what happens to your
body. I have a very, very big issue with that.
Like telling women you cannot get help. with
this and they just like watch you die rather
than it's not even just you can't get help it's
you have to go through with this process that
maybe you didn't opt into and you don't have
control over your own body you just we don't
care about you that's what it is they don't care
and i mean these are these are men coming up
with these laws and it's crazy to me it's like
do you not care about your children your daughters,
your sisters, your mothers. I mean, they could
all be in this position. They could all find
themselves one day, right there, along with the
others. Do you not care? Or let me guess, because
you're a politician and you have the funds, you're
going to fly them to Delaware to do it, huh?
You're going to just... But then it doesn't apply
to you. Mm -hmm. Yeah. And it's a matter of time.
I'm sure it's already happened. It must have
already happened to some lord. Of course. Of
course. I mean, Trump himself, uh, he... What
does it say? He paid like $200 ,000 for one of
his mistresses to have an abortion, like... Do
you think he cares about... No way. It doesn't...
A fetus? No. The only issue he cares about is...
Is the... The new technogarchy. That's what it
is. And the fact that they only use this because
obviously the Democrats, right, are taking the
other way, right? He needs to oppose this. I
think, I think it's just like this whole political,
political, sorry, English is not my first language,
am I? You're fine, you're fine. I mean, I'm able
to pronounce some words, but yeah. There's this
political game that, it's just a circus and it's
a circus happened before. And that's another
reason I get angry usually. It's just like people
not reading. I mean, you cannot say in 2025 that
they're lying to you through the CV, right, with
the news. I mean, you have access to books now,
you have access to information. Like if it's
not your anniversary, these things have happened
before. And some of them in the exact same order.
Yeah, no, it's it's one of the reasons why I've
chose not to watch the news lately Now like I'm
completely ignorant, but but still I just I can't
I can't I just cannot watch it go down Yeah Just
a super me. Oh Go ahead. No, no, you go first.
I was gonna say that's why I've stayed away Sorry
stayed away from tick -tock mainly recently because
my Algorithm it's filled with political propaganda
on one side or the other, which is crazy to me
because I was never on the red side. So why is
that showing up now? The algorithm is so messed
up and it just spends all day just torturing
me if I go there for too long. So I just stay
away, go in there maybe a couple minutes at a
time. And that's about it. I learned what's going
on from my best friend because he likes to give
himself anxiety um yeah so my my best friend
you know is is gay and he's over here considering
moving to germany because it's brothers in germany
because of everything that's going on but he
likes to torture me and himself by sending me
anything that he feels that i should know and
i was like i didn't want to see it on my own
why are you sending it to me you need to see
the world going down like He doesn't want to
grab that pop card. His answer is like, if I
have to see it, you have to see it with me. Exactly.
My TikTok algorithm is wonderful. And I'm sorry,
I just, it's okay. It's okay. She's making too
much noise. My TikTok algorithm is wonderful.
I get the most affirming stuff on there all the
time. My IG is full of cats, full of cats, and
that has helped me through the pandemic. Like
you have no idea. My IG is a little crazy. I
think it's the American social media algorithms
that are really messed up. Because one second
I'll be watching a dancing video. It's like an
old couple dancing salsa. And I'm like, oh, that's
so cute. Look at that old couple. that's adorable
next thing you know it's like some fascist video
about some guy talking just a bunch of crap just
a bunch of crap and i was like why i have never
seen these videos before like why are you doing
this to me yeah it looks like you're in fashion
week keep going keep going so you're on mute
Oh yeah, she's muted. I'm sorry, I forgot I muted
myself because it makes some noise and I didn't
want to interrupt Maya. But yeah, it's just like,
it's a struggle. It's a struggle, people. But
we got this. If anything, it just looks like
you're in a pool. It's like a reflection. Yeah,
you're really cool. I'll be in charge of the
visual effects. So, do we have any more questions
for Maya? Are you looking to reestablish your
relationship with the Divine? Coming from...
I forgot what was the name you gave it, sorry.
Well religious Oh agnostic. Yeah Yeah, I'm always
interested in learning more So definitely reading
more into it Like I said, I believe that there
is a higher power whether that's the universe
or some deity of sorts I don't know But things
have happened in my life and I have spoken and
Asked for things and received them So that's
why I feel like there is something there. There
is something that I'm connected to on a certain
level that has made things happen for me. I'm
asking because, you know, normally when something
bad happens to us, I mean, I'm assuming it's
happening to everybody. You get that, like, that
question, like, why is this happening to me?
Right? And usually you like you would go like
if you believe, right? You would go to to the
divine being, right? And ask like, why is this
happening to me? Right? Like, am I being like
punished for something? Am I doing something
wrong? Right? Yeah. Sometimes it might it might
just look like chaos and pull you away from from
that relationship that you that you have. So,
yeah, that's why I was curious, like how you
move away from, how did you move away from that
breakup? Yeah, so with me, okay, so I had a really
traumatic breakup, my last breakup, it was awful,
awful. And when I sought out counseling from
my pastor, right, after that breakup, The answer
that I got was forgive him and go through counseling
with him. And it was all centered around him.
It was not a single ounce of empathy or sympathy
for me or what he had put me through. And that's
when I realized that a man -made religion was
not for me. Because they were not looking out
for me. they were looking out for the male him
because he's supposed to be the leader because
in the christian bible it says you have god right
then you have the husband then the wife the children
and if you take away the husband then what good
are you you can't have a direct connection to
god like you can't have that direct connection
yourself And that's what they believe, like truly.
But I was told this, that why could I not make
things work with a monster? And if I ever, in
the future maybe I'll share details, but a monster
of a human being. I was no longer willing to
endanger my life, my being, my soul, just because
they chose that. Hey, the man matters more. Yeah,
that's not maybe you definitely made the right
choice on down Yeah, and and I had trouble at
first at first. I thought I was gonna lean very
atheist right because I was like this can't be
it like the wise right the wise that Why did
this happen? Why is this happening? Why was this
allowed? Yeah, why does this happen to other
people not even just myself like? Why do other
people have to go through this? Because I've
led a decent life where I have always, I mean,
you've heard snippets of it on the lines where
I tell people, if you need to hear something,
if you want encouragement, reach out to me. That
has been me my whole life. If you need something,
I will be that person for you. I will be there
for you. If nobody else will be there for you,
I will be there for you. Like, I'll give you
five minutes of my time. I'll give you 10 minutes
of my time. Whatever you need. Like, that's the
type of person that I've been since I was five
years old. Yeah. I was beating up bullies for
my family members. Yes, I'm a little violent
sometimes. I appreciate that. It's okay. Yeah.
Yeah, like, and nobody could mess with people
that I cared about. If you were a part of mine,
then I got you. There comes a point where you
have to be violent. The way of the leaf is not
always the right way. Yeah. Unless you... But
obviously the way of the leaf until you hit the
ground and then it's... Someone's gotta pay.
Yeah, I am a believer of... I won't start something,
but be sure that I will end it. Yeah, I can...
Yeah, I will put an end to it. Um, so yeah, that's
what I did for For my friends for family members
anybody who ever went through anything. I was
there for them But I found myself a lot in the
situation that when I was going through something
I Was looking around And nobody was there But
um, so yeah, so all the wise came from those
points right where Why if I'm like this? Is this
happening? But there's other things that have
occurred like Family members that have been ill
things like that things that I have asked and
somehow good things have happened still So I'm
like, okay, there was this one horrible thing
that happened But three good things happened
Like I had surgery last year and It was the scariest
thing. I didn't know I was gonna wake up. I didn't
know I was gonna be here and That's why this
here has been so important to me Because I want
to flip everything upside down Because this is
a new chance at life like I'm here. I'm healthier.
I'm happy. I just Want to have make everybody
happy and be happy. Yeah Yeah, yeah And I don't
care anymore like that's really where i'm at.
I just don't care I don't care to be polite enough.
I don't care to be Censored. I don't care to
be anything that anybody else wants. I'm just
gonna be me. Damn it That's exactly how I feel.
That's why i'm making this podcast And the funny
thing is that like I've been asked to be on podcasts
for years, and I have never said yes, but I said
yes to you. Fantastic. Thank you. Special moment.
I love it. Yeah. Yeah. So, let's move first.
Okay. We should move on to another topic. Yeah.
For me, I just, I want to ask, Jolie, are you
religious? Well, I'm spiritual. Okay. I am spiritual.
I was asking Maya because obviously I was curious
how other people do it because I'm also like
dealing with that in my life. So I started as
religious. I spent a lot of time with my grandparents
in the countryside and obviously I was... Going
to church regularly knew all the songs and knew
the prayers knew everything every night. There
was prayer But I was fed this idea of This always
kind always kind Divine, you know and always
there for the week always there to listen to
you to your prayers and I also had this, like,
children's Bible that obviously was, like, not
the real deal. It was just, like, very curated,
let's say. Like, all these nice stories, right,
about people getting involved and, yeah, nobody
was scared. Nobody was, yeah, it was perfect.
And I loved it. I loved it. Like, I would ask
my grandma to read me every night, right, because
it was this fantasy of, like, Whenever you're
down, whenever something bad happens to you,
there is God like saving everything, right? And
there are good people out there, right? So I
kind of was like, I felt protected, right? Fast
forward, I get into school and school for me
has been brutal, like especially the first years
of school. That is when I actually, even starting
with kindergarten, that's when I've actually
encountered bullying, physical aggression between
kids, and it did not make sense. So I spent a
lot of time, I was coming from school, home,
and I was hiding because anyway at home it was
the whole that's a whole different story but
i wasn't supported or allowed to show my emotions
so i was hiding myself in the closet crying because
i saw other children first like being bullied
and being beaten just for being different you
know just for being themselves i say so i was
like praying every night like what is why is
this happening was such a shock for me as a as
a child and um yeah my mom found me once she
gave me a beating like why are you crying like
you have no reason to cry why are you always
crying like what's happening anyway i love my
mom i i i adore my mom but she she wasn't prepared
She wasn't prepared, let's say, for a child that
was really sensitive. I mean, children don't
come with a manual. I mean, that's clear. And
you do the best you can. That was her best. But
yeah, that thing, as well as the thing that was
happening in the church. Like old ladies telling
me, you know, you shouldn't do the cross like
this. You should do the cross like that No, don't
kneel now. You need to kneel when the priest
says whatever and I'm like I Am seven can I live
Like what is your deal but they had nothing else
to do right that's really young for me that was
sort of identity I'm so yeah, this is me you
You back away Exactly. It was too much for me
and so I came to the conclusion, so my psyche
came to the conclusion that there is no God.
Because if there's no one that can protect these
children around me, it did not make sense. It
did not make sense for me. Like, why isn't like
help coming? Why is it? Yeah, so it took me away
from that and for the longest time I... I was
an atheist. I did not believe. I was really curious
about occult stuff, like esoteric stuff. But
surprisingly enough, what drew me back to believing
was not Christianism. It was actually Shamanism
and Tentaculine. That's what actually brought
me back. So there are things that probably by
Christians are seen as like pagan, right? They're
still like Whatever the Christian religion is
built on pagan blocks. Yeah And there's that
but yeah, so that that is what brought me back
because I came back to this like State of prayer
and just like meditation and just me Just a small
space where I can experience the divine and yeah,
that was amazing and I had a lot of Amazing experiences
since I've started working on that So yeah, I'm
spiritual and What you were saying Maya like
you don't believe in like a man -made I I've
always said this like I don't believe in the
God in the books of man from the books Like because
that no matter what religion you look at. It's
just like 1 % Come on. Come on now 1 % Like we
don't know a lot This might sound very bad, but
that the God in those books He's a kid on an
antel with a magnifying glass and he's trying
to burn you Imagine my script right when I read
the actual Bible for the first Oh my god. Oh
my god. I totally want to believe in God. I used
to be like, I used to be very religious as well.
Dutch Reformed. And our house is next to the,
it used to be the biggest church in the southern
hemisphere for a while in South Africa. Like
literally across the road. It could seat 7 ,000
people in that one church. And I was part of
the technical crew. I helped to do the lights
on Sundays and I would walk home at night on
a Sunday and be talking to Jesus. He never answered
me. And then I started getting curious because
there was this rhetoric inside the church that
you shouldn't... You know that you should block
these these other information sources out like
don't look at this Bible or don't look at that
or I looked at all of it and Eventually was like
this. So this is really good. This is better.
Someone's better objectively better. Yeah, and
Then I just kind of decided that obviously this
is not the way. Oh, yeah I was a creationist
for a while as well Like an evangelical creationist.
But over time I just moved away from all of that
and now I think that there is more beauty in
the random and the intrinsic than there is in
giving these things to an external power. Both
of these can be true at the same time. Yeah,
absolutely. Which is why I can't say that I believe
in a god, but I want to believe in a higher power.
I believe in manifestation. I believe that if
you're a sad person all the time and you don't
put yourself out there and you were never told
nothing's gonna happen to you. That's true. That's
true. I think I find so much beauty in the in
randomness, you know, and a lot of people will
say like, oh, no, that's chaos. Like that is
not something that is part of like, you know,
the whole process, like creation and all that,
you know, like everything is already planned,
something like that. Right. But I think randomness
is part of it because I do believe that everything,
everything that we see around us, it had a beginning.
Something happened in order for it to transform,
not to change, but transform. I think it's all
part of it. For me, it gives it beauty. Maybe
we don't understand it, maybe we perceive it
as randomness, like chaos. But I mean, for me,
like I had this huge intrinsic fear of trans
people for the longest time in South Africa.
It's really. But now the idea of this like fluidity
of gender and this femininely masculine and masculinely
feminine and all of it. It's beautiful. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I also find it amazing. Like, I'm
so curious and that is one, I think it's the
biggest thing that I love about myself, the curiosity.
Because it has taken me to places I would never
think that I would go. I don't know if my English
is English -ing right now, but you get me? Because
of what Ken says. But yeah, it has taken me to
a lot of... amazing places and just being able
to go past that fear of the unknown. And seeing
so much diversity, it's just so beautiful. It
does not make life boring. That's what I adore
about it. You constantly discover something.
Yeah. Yeah. I think for me, it's um it's funny
because i think the wanting to know more and
knowing that there is more to the spiritual actually
comes from um my bloodline like i always say
that i come from strong women my grandmother
devout devout catholic right super like i mean
i was with this lady when i lived with her at
church every day like that was the little girl
that was me with her every single day. I have
never liked the Catholic religion because I think
it's very ritualistic and kind of what you were
saying, like you have to do the cross this way.
You have to kneel at this point. You have to
do this at this time in this order because that
is what the pope says you have to do. And you
never question it. Yeah. I was also like you,
I was seven years old asking my grandmother,
but why? But why? Because the priest says so,
bro. What do you mean? And then she would look
at me. I swear she probably wanted to smack me.
But it was always a why. It wasn't the why of
if God existed. It was the why of why does it
have to be this way, though? Yeah. Like, why
do I have to follow these instructions? Why do
I have to sing these hymns? Why do I have to
pray in this way? Can't I just have a conversation
with him? Like, can I just not speak to him?
Like, why is there all these barriers in the
way? And I was a little kid thinking these things,
which makes sense of who I am, I guess. But those
are the thoughts. But her mother, my great grandmother,
was a curandera. So she was an herbalist. An
herbalist like the like a woman in the town that
would make remedies and But I heal people and
that kind of thing. Yeah, we can have a word
there many I don't know the words for for for
that I guess it would be healer. Yeah Yeah, yeah
Not in the sense of like, you know spells or
anything like that. It was all with nature's
god where nature's given, see, God given, anyways,
nature's things like, and my grandmother also
did that. I never took regular medicine when
I lived with my grandmother. It was always, here
is this thing that I made, drink it. So like
my love for teas, a lot of people say, oh, I
don't like teas, I can't do bitter teas. I've
never added honey to my teas. Because I've been
drinking them bitter since I was, I don't know
how old. But yeah, so because of my great -grandmother,
I have dreamt her. I never met her. But I have
dreamt her. That's cool. That's really cool.
And I have asked if this is what she looked like.
And my mom has told me, yes, that's what she
looked like. Ancestral memory. Yes. And I have
like the one dream that comes to mind is she
was wearing all white. And there was a man who
was sick. in his bed and she was putting something
like under his bed and then also was making him
drink something to help him like and I know sounds
it's not I don't really share this often with
people but I don't know how I know this but I
know it I know what she looked like I know what
she did and I don't know how you know there are
things that We don't need to know how. Exactly.
Yeah. There are things that exist out there that
we don't have yet the explanation for, but they
are real. They definitely are real. We just like
sometimes this system was just like imagination,
right? Or it's just like a dream. It was just
a dream. It was just a nightmare, you know? Yeah.
Yeah. And so because of the dreams that I've
had, I I guess I've been able to connect a little
bit here and there with some of the people that
I never met in that lineage. And I stick to the
lineage of my grandmother because, and that's
the last name that I carry by the way. I don't
carry any other, like my last name is my grandmother's
last name and it will remain my grandmother's
last name. Like that's, yeah. Because I think
that's the, that was her last name. That was
my great grandmother's last name. So, carrying
that on. Yeah. Let's, let's, let's carry on with
the next, uh, the next topic. I've already spun
the wheel. I did record spinning the wheel. It
is, it is me. I feel kind of bad about the result.
Now you. So I'll go, but I rolled in, I think.
Oh no, she's stuck. Oh no, everyone's stuck.
Oh, there we go. We're back. Okay, so I'll say
my problem. For most of my life, I have been
afraid to voice my opinion. This is the one I
wrote down. For fear of what people might think.
Now I feel it's a toxic mindset instilled by
the system to keep the proletariat in its place.
I relate to that. I relate to that, to not being
able to express your emotions. Not feeling accepted,
truly accepted, unless you agree with the people
around you. You know, it chips away at your identity
bit by bit. My question for you would be, now
that you are expressing your opinions, now that
you are expressing those emotions, does it feel
freeing, uncomfortable, or a mix of both? Because
obviously, there's a process involved, right?
So where are you exactly in that process, and
how does it feel? Obviously, it's better to express
your emotions, but internally. It's hard to say
where I am in that process. It's almost impossible
to say. But I'm somewhere along the road and
I'm still in that trap. I still fear. But I'm
aware of it now. And it's easier to start overcoming
it. What was the other part of the question?
Is it freeing? Does it give me anxiety? It's
definitely more free. I'm proud of myself when
I walk away and I said what I wanted to say or
do what I wanted to do. But there's still a fear.
So yeah, a little bit of both. And I think that
sometimes I still, I still agree with people
for the sake of agreement. I get you, like, experiencing
the same thing. I find it freeing, but also,
like, it really gets this pressure off my chest.
But it also makes me feel... There is a guilt,
obviously, associated with it, because there
was a guilt. that I felt when whenever I was
expressing in my childhood, I was expressing
emotions, you know, so there is a clue when I
see people, the way they react to whatever I'm
saying. So instead of. Focusing on I just need
to get this out, I'm trying to focus on how do
I get it out in a way that. Is also productive
for the conversation, right? Because if I. just
like blur it out and it's just like something
unfiltered. It's just going to ruin all of my
relationship. It's just going to ruin everything
around me. That's not the purpose of it. The
purpose is just to express myself and be able
with the people around me to work on our relationship
or whatever it is. This is what I did, focusing
on how can I put this in a way that It still
allows me to express myself, but also does not,
you know, polarize people. Do you think that
doing that puts you in a trap where you're still
doing it, even though you're trying? It might.
It might. Well, I thought about this like, am
I still in that trap? Well, at least, you know
what I thought? At least I'm taking one step
at least. Yeah. Right. by allowing myself to
talk about the things that really, because I've
always been social. I've always made a lot of
friends and stuff like that, but I was very controlling
of what information I was giving access to. I
could talk about a lot of things, but I would
not talk about how I really felt about them.
Now, I talk about stuff and the first thing that
I noticed is that it comes out with such Intensity.
I'm crying. I'm screaming. I'm still aware. I
try to let the people around me know I'm going
for it. I'm going for it. Just bear with me.
It might sound bad. I'm sorry. I'm also a Libra.
I go from this side to this side real fast. I'm
trying to get to the middle. So I try to make
sure that people know. But I still like I want
to do the right thing. So yeah, it might be a
trap in the sense that I am still not Not dealing
fully with like why is that emotion even there?
Why do I feel like that right? Because you can't
just treat the surface, right? You also need
to treat like why why do I feel offended? Why
do I feel sad about this at the end of the day?
Yeah Does it really affect me that much? So dealing
with that and also dealing with the way you pass
the message to the other people, I think it just
helps keep you on, what do you call that in English?
Like floating. On the level. I mean balance.
Yeah. Yeah, in balance. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned
Caring about something and you're asking why
do you care about it? So I I hate self -help
books, but I read the subtle art of not giving
a fuck And I found that to be very helpful at
just putting a little mental barometer in your
brain Going this isn't gonna change the outcome
of my life. So I do not care That's it. Yeah
that you don't need to read the book. That's
what it says Yes, it's gonna change the outcome
of you know, then I totally agree with you There
are a lot of there's a lot of content about self
development out there. Not all of it good Yeah,
a bit shitty But still there are some good good
things that I that I that I read Not the entire
book But at least some of the some of the messages
like really got to me and I I'm sorry. Do you
hear this? Yeah, there's structure going on right
now. What are you thinking? Like very very little.
I didn't have a setting like I'm sorry. No, it's
okay. It will get taken out anyway. So coming
back to it. There's a lot of books of course
self -development not all them good. There are
some of them that do have some really good messages
within them. I personally am attracted to the
ones that have science to back them up. Oh, yeah.
Right. My favorite book of all time is called
Algorithms to Live By, and it's the application
of computer algorithms into your life. And that
makes sense to me. I resonate with a lot of like
Jody Spencer's work because he goes through the
data. Like I'm in between like believing you
and whatever juju you're doing, but I also need
to see some data. Give me a little bit of that
as well. There are some really, really good books
out there on how to improve and work for that
juju exactly. Well, you know what? I hate I hate
when they tell you no do this do that. I'm telling
you what to do Whatever you're doing. It's wrong.
I hate books like that. Like I'll hold on That's
all the business ones I've read Teach me what
I what I why I was I doing it wrong not to repeat
it in the future Because I cannot change like
from this to this like just Yeah, you know Anyway,
I feel like I'm blabbing a lot like No, no, no,
I wouldn't go get I would I need to refill my
wine. Can I do that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah It's
been like a really rough time like 2019 Yeah
until now like the past three years. Oh I've
been I've been pretty hard like Health wise like
physically, you know 2019 was like mentally,
heavily mentally, but it also like I almost died
from that shit. It brought me to a point where
I was in my house, like walking like on all fours.
And I also developed like an OCD. And my mom,
I actually called for my mom. The only time I
called for my mom and actually trusted her after
so many years. But I've asked her like, when
you see me, because I knew. like I didn't I did
not look good like I lost so much weight I could
not stomach anything like not even water so I
was there for like a week and a half without
food without like I was actually just like forcing
food down down my stomach because I knew like
I need something but it was just like vomiting
and I couldn't even breathe too hard because
I was vomiting like it was it felt like a purge
and I was obsessed with the why You know, that's
that is one of the reasons why I was also mentioning
earlier like the why and I was like questioning
everything I even prayed after so many years
of not even saying the prayer I prayed and I
was asking like why is this happening like like
do not forget about me and stuff like that and
I try to think like at one point I was putting
down on pieces of paper Everything that I I thought
I did wrong in this life trying to trace like
why is this happening to me, right? So yeah,
my mom came, took care of me and just like spoon
fed me, bro. Like I was like, I should have been
taken to the hospital at that point because I
could not eat anything. And I was like weighing,
imagine I was, I'm 175 centimeters, right? I
was weighing at that point, 42 kilos. Oh my God.
42 kilos, like my - There's nothing. My stomach
like when I when I was like looking in the mirror
it was like Like this and Mentally I was having
one anxiety attack after the other and at one
point I had a really big one and I was crawling
trying to get help from my neighbors. I was living
alone and As I was approaching the door at one
point I felt like oh my god my heart is gonna
burst because it was beating so fast and The
reason why I have PTSD now is because at that
point I was so tired that I just like laid on
the floor and Just gave up So I reached that
point where I was just like ready like if if
if this is happening to me, you know what? Bro,
I cannot fight it anymore. I've tried so many
things. I cannot fight it. So I was just there
waiting for it to end. And mentally, this shift
has been so violent and even processing it. Being
aware that at some point, I was just ready for
it to end. Yeah. Yeah. And imagine that it was
happening when I thought my life was doing great.
So many amazing things in my life happening.
I felt so good about myself and stuff like that.
And just like that one day, I woke up and everything
changed. At the same time, that was the moment
when I switched like what happened afterwards.
When I started to recover, I went on meds. It
helped me to eat. That is the only goal that
I had. Like I knew I needed to eat. And so thankfully
SSRIs got me out of it. And not even like a big
dose. It was just like 50 milligrams, 50 milligrams
of sirtulin. And that was it. That got me to
eating again. That got me just like relax because
at one point I was waking up and I thought it
was an earthquake. I was calling for my mom.
I was so scared. It's an earthquake. And she
came and I was like, no, you're shivering. I
was actually shivering. Anyway, it's a long story.
It's a very big story. And yeah, I got traumatized
by it. And now every time something happens,
it just scares me so much that I will go back
to that point when I would just give up. And
I used to be this person like so in love with
life. You know, and appreciating everything and
finding everything so, so, so beautiful, like
people and, and experiences. Yeah, I am that
person, but knowing that bottom, I'm still working
on just like making sure I it's okay. I know
that bottom, but I have the tools now not to
get there, you know, but some part of me is just
like freaking scared of that, of that, of that
place. Anyway, no, no. Thank you for sharing
all that. Like, you know what? I could never,
honestly, from the little that I've known you,
I've known you for a bit over a month, right?
Or, yeah, a month and a half, something like
that. And I would have never guessed. And we've
had some deeper conversations. And even then,
when I've shared my things with you, You have
been such a ray of sunshine. Like seriously,
that's who you are to me. You know, it's exactly
what you said. Like what you tell people whenever
they feel down. Like if you need someone to talk
to, if you need five minutes of somebody's time
to feel understood. You know, it's the same thing.
I think it stems from the from the same thing
that I know how hard it is. So I will always
try to help because I know what it is to be alone
because I was going through it alone. Nobody
knew nobody until I called my mom. Nobody knew.
And it also took a lot for me to call my mom
and trust her that way. I get from from moving
away from from a relationship where In my childhood,
I was not allowed to show any emotion. I told
her, if there is ever a moment when I need you
to just come and just like, not even support
me, but help me go through this and not cry,
not be judgmental, this is the time. Because
if you cannot do that, I don't know what's going
to happen to me. Yeah. And I'm so grateful that
she understood that, you know, because it helped
a lot like healing our relationship and stuff
like that, you know, like for her to be able
to go past her emotions and not being, you know,
so narcissist about whatever she's going through,
you know, and make it about. Yeah. And that's
amazing growth on her part, too. Yeah, I know.
My mind has so much growth. Like, I'm happy to
have been able to heal. that and and just like
yeah because um speaking on the term like i'm
i'm flabbergasted because i could never my mom
would be the last person like i love my mom dearly
she does not have the emotional intelligence
or awareness to ever help me out she would sink
me deeper You know, it's the same thing that
I found. I mean, I don't want to assume everybody
has their own whatever, but I discovered that
being the Lulu sometimes and forcing that relationship,
forcing that type of relationship you want to
have onto them, even if it's uncomfortable, even
if it doesn't feel like you, even if you like,
why am I like hugging my dad? Like we've never
done, our relationship is never like that. It's
like forcing yourself to do it. The first time
that I did that, it was awkward for the both
of us. It's like two socially awkward penguins
hugging each other with their little wings. Year
after year, and every time I saw them, it actually
did something. Over time, they felt comfortable
to open themselves to me. and just like express
their emotions as well because they were not
taught to be like that. No, no, no. But it's
something beautiful that happens when you allow
people and you make the safe space for them to
just try it, you know? Yeah, yeah. I believe
there is. And I've been doing that with her for
years. Like my mom went from the person that
would never say I love you or give you a hug
or compliments. Well, compliments she did do.
She's a very thin person. Yeah. So but it was
it was in the way of you're so pretty because
you're my child. So you're my little trophy kind
of thing. That's how it was. Same thing with
my brother. My brother's so perfect because that's
her child. Right. Like it was from that place.
And she has had a growth because going from a
person that never said I love you or her kids
or anything like that. She hugs us, hugs her
grandkids. I mean, she is very loving in that
sense verbally and even physically. However,
when you try to break down certain falls with
her, because I've tried, that the Lulu states,
oh yes, I'm the type that writes novels for them
in birthday cards. Like I am telling them everything
that they make me feel and more. like pouring
and pouring and pouring into them and She'll
appreciate that and love it but in the turn it's
like Well, I'm happy that it's your birthday
Happy birthday. I love you so much. You're you're
so beautiful. You're this and that but that's
it's very superficial devoid of emotions Know
what I did? I bullied them into doing Maybe that's
what I need to do. I don't know. I really like
it from it from the experience It feels like
I'm bullying them. But actually I gave them,
you know those books where they have like prompts
like to write I've given her that oh my god Yeah,
I've been sitting on her bookcase for years.
I feel I'm really then I'm I'm constantly calling
them like in this sign yet to writing Get to
writing. Yeah, I'm actually applying what they
did when I was a child and it's so funny and
in some ways it heals me, you know, or better
than because Yeah, my dad is the lost cause but
the best thing is a lost cause because I Never
really grew up with them. So our relationship
has always been awkward But he lives in another
country so when we do talk He likes to keep it
very positive, very, you know, yeah, sweet because
we don't talk that often. So therefore it should
always be on a positive note. Right. And when
I do see him, he's great to talk to. He has a
lot of good points of views and this and that.
But do I really know the real him? Probably not.
I know a curated version of him. Yeah. But my
mom is the one that I spend more time with. Right.
And my sister and my brother. Like my brother
is very emotionally aware, very intelligent.
I like to say that. It's because he has sisters
only that he has been able to, you know, be OK
with being vulnerable and expressing himself,
which is funny because my older sister. Is not
very vulnerable or expressive. She is with me,
but I had like when we're alone. Not in front
of other people or she's speaking. that with
me she'll call me and tell me everything that's
going on under the sun and I'm listening and
listening giving her advice but if she would
never speak like that in front of everybody else
in front of everybody else she has this armor
and always just the older sister yeah and my
brother in the in his mindset he's like I'm the
baby I'm the only boy like I'm who I am and I
am he's never had an identity issue like He's
always just been him, which is amazing. Love
that for him. And then with my mom, it's just
like you get to a certain point and a certain
level and she refuses to dig deeper. Yeah. Is
that an easy thing to do, you know? Yeah. And
she has like shared, you know, I wasn't brought
up like this. This is not something I can do
comfortably. And I tell her, well, tell me one
thing. Just just one. And then I'll ask her the
next time. Remember when you said that? What
do you mean? What did you mean by that? And she's
like, I'm group timer now. And I'm like, OK,
I know they will respond within just to be vulnerable
sometimes just to just to let go of that control.
Yeah, yeah. But going back to the question I
did after you. Circling back. Circling back.
I wanted to ask, because they're similar to the
question you asked me, like, how did you become
aware that, you know, you had that fear or that
you felt those emotions about really sharing
your thoughts or how people perceive you? Because
I think it has a lot to do with that, too, like
how people perceived you and your being uncomfortable
with rocking that boat. Right you wanted to kind
of fit into what they thought of you That's the
only thing I can think of personally like if
I've ever not shared my thoughts is because this
is who they think I am so I'll let them think
that I am that I ran out of candles