WEBVTT

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Mom is like just, she's the core of the family.

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She literally is the trunk. She's the giver of

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life. And if we don't pour life into her and

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she's running on fumes, everybody's going to

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suffer. But if we can really give her like strong

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foundation and roots, those leaves and those

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branches are going to grow beautifully and everybody

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benefits. Welcome back to Keep It Good. I'm your

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host, Emily. I'm your host, Carly. So last week

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we kind of introduced a few of the untold sides

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of motherhood. But, um, this week we're going

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to get a little bit deeper into that. And we

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have a special guest today, Jacqueline Tanner.

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Yes. We'd love to introduce her. She is the co

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-founder and COO of evolving tree therapy and

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welcome to the podcast. Jacqueline. Thank you

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so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here

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and honored to be your first guest. Yay, this

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is a little bit of an experiment guys. Okay.

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So you're just going to bear with us everyone

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included. So May is mental health awareness month,

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but also maternal mental health awareness month.

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So this is why it's really special to have Jacqueline

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with us today. She is an LPC. And like Emily

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said, she is the co -founder of evolving treat

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therapy. So let's dive in Jacqueline, I want

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to pick your brain. First off, like so many women

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struggle with that feeling immediately postpartum

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of just feeling off. And a lot of times they

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think maybe this is just how it's supposed to

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be, you know, your first time mom, everything's

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different. So what are some common misconceptions

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about postpartum mental health? Yeah, I think

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you bring up a good point. A lot of us go into

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it and we have no idea. what to expect, or you

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only know the little bits and pieces people tell

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you. So I think initially our society does us

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a disservice by just not talking about this and

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how common it is, how normal it is. And like,

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there's nothing wrong with you. It doesn't make

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you a bad mom. And postpartum, it can last quite

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some time. People think right after having the

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baby, you know, maybe the first six or eight

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weeks, but it actually has been shown that It

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can last anywhere two to three years. Um, so

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it does take some time. The good news is it usually

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does get better progressively through those two

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and three years, but I often hear women say,

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you know, it wasn't until my child was two or

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my kids stopped breastfeeding or, you know, now

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that my child is three, I actually have my sex

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drive back. Like I, you know, stuff like that.

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And it's, it really is. And. You know, it's interesting

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because we also, you know, people say postpartum

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depression, right? That's like the common one

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that everybody thinks of when you think of maternal

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mental health. But they call them peak meds,

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but it's a whole... cluster essentially of mental

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health, things that can happen to people postpartum.

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So, you know, the most common yes is the depression.

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I'd say second in line to that is anxiety and

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people don't realize that having anxiety after

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having a baby can be related to the postpartum.

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There's also OCD can be really common, prevalent.

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Believe it or not, PTSD can also happen. So if

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you have some sort of, you know, traumatic birth

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or your birth plan doesn't go according to plan

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or your baby's in the NICU, there's a lot of

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things that, you know, we don't always plan for

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when we go in and have this quote unquote plan

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in place or what we envision it to look like.

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It doesn't always go that way and people can

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really be. traumatized from that and just need

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extra support. There's also bipolar, which is

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just really shifting between different states

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of mood, which is common if people have been

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diagnosed with bipolar before, but it can happen

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after pregnancy as well. And then I would say

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the psychosis is the one that we all unfortunately

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hear about in the news and people will discount

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it and say it's not very common. It's not statistically,

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but when you look at just the numbers even in

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Connecticut. So if you look at, I think they

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say it's like 1 % or 1 to 3%, something like

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that. But when we look at all the mothers who

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give birth in Connecticut, that's about 50 mothers

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a year in the state of Connecticut alone. Wow.

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could be struggling with the psychosis piece.

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And again, it's nothing wrong necessarily with

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mom. It's, it's your body literally goes through

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the biggest dip in hormones that your body will

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ever experience. And it impacts us in so many

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ways. Yeah, that was going to be my question,

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you know, because you're saying it can be as

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long as two to three years. So, you know, why

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would that be? Like some people only have it

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for a couple months and some people might have

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it longer. Is it hormonal? It can be. Okay. Yeah.

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And also it depends to breastfeeding can also,

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I mean, cause it continues the shift in hormones.

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So that can play a part in it. But you also have

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to look at, you know, all the other. pieces of

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parenting that's also coming at mom. So it's

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like, yes, she's having this hormonal shift,

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right? But now she's also responsible for another

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human being. She might also be working full time.

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What does her village look like? Does she have

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people who are jumping in and supporting her?

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Is she alone? Is she isolated? Did she just relocate

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for a new job or something like that? We're like,

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you know, support is so limited. If there's financial

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strain on the family, sometimes people don't

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have paid maternity or it's not equivalent to

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what, you know, they need to survive, that can

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actually increase your chances of having postpartum.

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Then you've got, you know, the relationship dynamics,

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like your husband, you go through this huge shift,

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you know, you birth this child, you're now, you

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know, taking care of the, you know, primary parent

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perhaps, and that completely shifts and they

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don't know, you know, who you're kind of evolving

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into and that you know, can really weigh on a

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relationship to resentments, um, you know, feeling

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like they're not doing enough or feeling like

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they don't understand why you're not just your,

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you know, your normal chipper happy self. Cause

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you're sleep deprived and you have a baby that's,

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you know, has a lot of needs and you're trying

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to learn to balance all of this, like simultaneously

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when it's also new to everybody. Yeah, so there's,

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there's a lot of factors that go into it. Um,

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also if you've struggled with mental health in

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the past, that can be predictor. Um, but also

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each pregnancy is different. So sometimes people

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don't have postpartum with their first and then

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do with their second or vice versa. So, um, if

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you've experienced, if it's, if you know, you're

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having your second, third, whatever, um, and

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you've had postpartum with a prior pregnancy,

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that also increases your chances of having it.

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I feel like with my first one, I had a little

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bit of the depression and maybe the anxiety,

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maybe even the OCD, but after my second with

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the traumatic childbirth, like definitely the

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PTSD, I didn't let people drive my babies around

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for a year. At least I was just like, I don't

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know. But now that you're saying it, I'm like,

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oh, I probably should have talked to someone.

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Yeah, I was like, oh, yeah, I had that. Oh, yeah,

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I had that. But like you said, you don't realize

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that this is not part of what is the normal.

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That's the fear is that is you know the guilt

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the shame that there's something wrong with me

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that I'm I'm feeling this way or I'm having these

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thoughts when in Reality, it's pretty normal.

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They say like one in five women. I'm experienced

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postpartum They however think it's probably closer

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to like one in three because it's under reported

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people Yeah, don't want to share how they're

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truly feeling for fear that something's gonna

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happen. They're gonna not let my baby go home

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from this visit with me or they're going to send

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me somewhere and I'm going to be separated from

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my baby. So a lot of times, oftentimes people

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don't admit when it's happening. Yeah, I feel

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very blessed. I don't feel like I had much of

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any of this, but looking back, maybe there was

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little things, especially anxiety, but you just

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kind of deal with it like, oh yeah, well, I'm

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tired. You know, it's just a lot or the baby's

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been crying all night long it you know You just

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kind of chalk it up to all those things not like

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I maybe need a little help You know probably

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why it's under Yeah, and I think that's like

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the point of it is that such a big scale, you

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know, you could maybe only suffer minor symptoms

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of this or you can go to the extreme but it's

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all yes under this umbrella of these symptoms

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that Really should be talked about more. So I

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think before you go into birth and not just checked

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up on six weeks after There's just such a lapse

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in care like you don't see your you don't see

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your actual doctor mom's doctor till six weeks

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You know unless something bizarre happens, you

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know, so there's six weeks. Yeah, you're going

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to the pediatrician But again people are scared

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to truly fill out some of those questionnaires,

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honestly Yeah, and I mean you think about it.

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I mean, I feel like we're coming a little bit

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better with maternity leave but for men, you

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know, so Yeah, because a lot like my husband

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I think was home for two weeks and then he was

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just like off to work and I would cry You know

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cuz I'm like, oh my god, like how can you just

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leave me? It's not his fault. We need to pay

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the bills, you know, but yeah, I would really

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cry and I was like super sad that he would just

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leave me cuz then you're just like And so isolating

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that's another piece of this that people just

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like don't talk about it's like you're You know

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your home and you don't know like the difference

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between daytime and nighttime I mean you do but

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Everything meshes into one because you're waking

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up every two to three hours. No matter what time

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of day it is typically so You know, it's just

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it's it's lonely like and to like just the sitting

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and the you know feeding the baby and You're

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just, it's so isolating. It's so isolating. And

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then, yeah, your spouse, you know, goes back

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to normal life, working 40 hours, and then you're

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like, oh, okay. Like, so I'm, like, really alone

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now. Like, I don't even have, you know, the other

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person in my household, so. Yeah. And if you

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add in winter, you can't even go outside and

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go for walks, you know? Like, that's the part

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that really, really hurt me was two winter babies.

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Same. I planned that very wrong. Very wrong.

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We need spring and summer babies up here in New

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England. Yes, we do. We do. Just to get outside

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is, you know, even if it's a short walk, it helps.

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The fresh air helps so much. Absolutely. Your

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business kind of support with yeah. Sure. Um,

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so yeah, let me I can explain how evolving tree

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evolved after having my second child So yeah

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to speak to how pregnancies can be like just

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so different my first one. I almost feel like

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I was like manic I was like I got this I'm doing

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all the things I had all this energy and my house

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was beautiful it was just like go go go and I

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really wanted a second baby and Again, just no

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awareness of how different that could be or how

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hard it could be. I can remember being pregnant

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with my second and people being like, oh, just

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wait. It's going to be so hard. But nobody really

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even offered feedback or these are some ways

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you could prepare yourself. So I was also like

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kind of just like well, that's like not helpful,

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you know, like I'm already in this I'm pregnant

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like I can't turn around back But everyone's

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just telling me like impending doom, you know,

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and I was really just like no We'll just do two

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of everything like it's it's gonna be fine and

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then I had my second and I was trying to sleep

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train him and He ended up he has sleep apnea.

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So I was like, you know trying to sleep train

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a baby who couldn't be sleep trained anyways,

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so I'm I'm so sleep deprived and I'm nursing

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and my other son was 22 months. So that whole

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pregnancy with my second, I didn't get kind of

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the rest and the relaxation. The luxury that

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you have with your first, like, you know, you're

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tired, you take a nap. There's, you know, you're

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chasing after a toddler. I was working full time.

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So it was just, it was just a lot. And then,

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so it's like, I'm now, you know, taking care

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of two babies. I'm sleep deprived and it was

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just, it was really, really bad. I remember going

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to my six week followup and the APRN was like,

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so how's everything going? And I literally just

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like burst into tears. I was just like, I am

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so overwhelmed. My anxiety's through the roof.

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I can't sleep at night. And, um. And I don't,

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again, I don't think I disclosed this to her,

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but you know, because of the same reason that

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other people didn't, but I knew like I needed

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help because I literally was getting, it wasn't

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like an intent or a plan, but I was getting visions

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of hanging myself in my basement. And it was

00:13:38.139 --> 00:13:40.259
more, I'm like trigger warning. I should have

00:13:40.259 --> 00:13:45.480
said that first, sorry. But it was just assigned

00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:47.580
to, it was almost like a thought of like, Well,

00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:50.120
that's always an option. Like, this is really

00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:53.120
fucking hard. And if I can't figure out how I'm

00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:56.059
going to manage this, like, you know, but many

00:13:56.059 --> 00:13:57.679
women feel like that my kids would be better

00:13:57.679 --> 00:14:01.220
off without me. Or like, I'm not a good enough

00:14:01.220 --> 00:14:04.360
mom for them. So I just shouldn't try to do this.

00:14:04.379 --> 00:14:07.759
So like, I knew at that point, I really like

00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:09.960
had to, you know, I went into that appointment

00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:12.429
and she up to my antidepressant and she gave

00:14:12.429 --> 00:14:15.169
me some like anti -anxiety and she was like you

00:14:15.169 --> 00:14:17.529
can take this to sleep but you like need somebody

00:14:17.529 --> 00:14:19.690
to watch the baby because you won't be able to

00:14:19.690 --> 00:14:21.929
like wake up so thank god you know my mother

00:14:21.929 --> 00:14:24.190
-in -law is a saint and she took my baby that

00:14:24.190 --> 00:14:25.450
night and let me sleep through the night for

00:14:25.450 --> 00:14:28.049
the first time in six weeks and i did i felt

00:14:28.049 --> 00:14:30.830
like a new woman i mean my symptoms weren't completely

00:14:30.830 --> 00:14:33.909
gone i still was very overwhelmed going from

00:14:33.909 --> 00:14:37.590
one to two but i just experienced firsthand how

00:14:38.169 --> 00:14:42.190
Difficult this is and isolating and luckily being

00:14:42.190 --> 00:14:44.129
in this field, I obviously believe very strongly

00:14:44.129 --> 00:14:45.870
in it. So I, you know, I reached out, I found

00:14:45.870 --> 00:14:48.889
a postpartum therapist. I started working with

00:14:48.889 --> 00:14:51.750
her once a week. She was lovely. Um, and really,

00:14:51.769 --> 00:14:55.149
really helpful. And so, yeah, so I had this,

00:14:55.149 --> 00:14:58.529
my own personal experience and I ended up bumping

00:14:58.529 --> 00:15:01.850
into a previous coworker at daycare pickup. Our

00:15:01.850 --> 00:15:04.149
littles were in the same daycare class and we

00:15:04.149 --> 00:15:06.330
just started talking and started doing like.

00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:09.860
play dates and um I started sharing with her

00:15:09.860 --> 00:15:12.799
kind of my experience and she said me too like

00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:16.379
you know so hard and all the things and um we

00:15:16.379 --> 00:15:19.779
were just realizing like god Mom's just, we need

00:15:19.779 --> 00:15:22.379
support. Mom is like just, she's the core of

00:15:22.379 --> 00:15:25.179
the family. She literally is the trunk. She's

00:15:25.179 --> 00:15:28.200
the giver of life. And if we don't pour life

00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:31.139
into her and she's running on fumes, everybody's

00:15:31.139 --> 00:15:34.000
going to suffer. But if we can really give her

00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:36.960
like strong foundation and roots, those leaves

00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:38.879
and those branches are going to grow beautifully

00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:42.500
and everybody benefits. So we had started talking

00:15:42.500 --> 00:15:45.159
about, we were both therapists and we started

00:15:45.159 --> 00:15:47.480
talking about like, what if we created this place?

00:15:47.659 --> 00:15:51.159
moms could go to be cared for. Like mom is the

00:15:51.159 --> 00:15:53.440
one that's caring for everybody else. So what

00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:56.940
if she can go somewhere and get that care that

00:15:56.940 --> 00:15:59.120
she's giving all day long to everybody else and

00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:02.720
just how wonderful that would be. And also just

00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:05.759
a safe space to talk about motherhood. Cause

00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:08.559
you know, there's everybody feels guilty saying

00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:11.340
that like, sometimes this sucks and it's really

00:16:11.340 --> 00:16:13.759
freaking hard and I'm struggling. So a place

00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:16.019
where We can just validate that for you, but

00:16:16.019 --> 00:16:19.039
like it's okay. It can be like the most wonderful,

00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:22.120
beautiful, deep love that you ever experienced.

00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:25.379
And you can also hate parts of it and say that

00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:28.679
like this is terrible. And my life has been turned

00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:31.100
upside down and I don't know who I am anymore.

00:16:31.580 --> 00:16:34.360
I just feel like I'm taking care of everybody

00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:37.500
else's needs and there's room for it all. You

00:16:37.500 --> 00:16:40.100
know, it doesn't make you a bad mom. It makes

00:16:40.100 --> 00:16:43.720
you a real person who has needs, wants desires

00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:45.820
and like, that's okay. And it's okay to take

00:16:45.820 --> 00:16:48.139
care of yourself and give yourself that gift,

00:16:48.139 --> 00:16:51.000
you know, like a place where moms can even gather

00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:53.580
and start to build that community, that village.

00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:56.120
Cause it's also important to find other women

00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:59.240
in your life who have children within the same,

00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:01.899
you know, age as your children. Cause you might

00:17:01.899 --> 00:17:04.220
have friends who have kids, but if they're, you

00:17:04.220 --> 00:17:06.700
know, in middle school, it's like they're so

00:17:06.700 --> 00:17:09.839
far removed from what it's like to be, you know,

00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:13.319
home with your own. Yeah. So it just helps to

00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:15.720
have people who are going through the same things.

00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:19.480
Yeah. Now, I know it's mainly moms, but like,

00:17:19.500 --> 00:17:23.440
do you treat fathers, families in general? Because

00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:26.119
I've heard, you know, men can get postpartum

00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:30.740
depression, too. And I've known a few that it's

00:17:30.740 --> 00:17:33.720
that it happened to, you know, would you be open

00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:37.819
to treating men, family. Yep. So we, we work

00:17:37.819 --> 00:17:41.039
with, um, moms, we work with non -birthing partners.

00:17:41.099 --> 00:17:43.640
We also will work with parents, like as, as a

00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:45.920
couple unit, um, so like couples counseling and,

00:17:46.059 --> 00:17:49.220
um, yeah, men, that's another piece of this that

00:17:49.220 --> 00:17:51.500
again, just isn't talked about. They say one

00:17:51.500 --> 00:17:54.839
in 10 men experience some form of postpartum

00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:57.500
anxiety, depression, because their whole life

00:17:57.500 --> 00:17:59.220
changes too. Like not only does their partner

00:17:59.220 --> 00:18:02.640
change, but just their home life changes and

00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:05.509
men face a whole bunch of different challenges

00:18:05.509 --> 00:18:08.269
as well, you know, feeling like they're not good

00:18:08.269 --> 00:18:10.069
enough all of a sudden or they're not making

00:18:10.069 --> 00:18:12.410
enough money or they're not the provider that

00:18:12.410 --> 00:18:15.549
they thought they could be. Or, you know, they're

00:18:15.549 --> 00:18:17.829
struggling with, I don't know what to do with

00:18:17.829 --> 00:18:20.690
this baby. I feel really inadequate or I don't

00:18:20.690 --> 00:18:23.390
know how to help and support my wife. Like I

00:18:23.390 --> 00:18:26.549
can clearly see she's struggling, but oftentimes

00:18:26.549 --> 00:18:30.450
men get frustrated and they get angry because

00:18:30.450 --> 00:18:34.019
sadness and inadequacy is not valued. with men

00:18:34.019 --> 00:18:38.759
in our society. So anger is okay. Um, so oftentimes

00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:40.680
like that's what you see because they just, they

00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:43.740
feel powerless and that can be really hard for

00:18:43.740 --> 00:18:46.559
a male to admit. So whether it's like getting

00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:50.680
support for themselves or even just some. Kind

00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:53.579
of you know guidance and coaching and reassuring

00:18:53.579 --> 00:18:56.680
or even just psycho education on what? You know

00:18:56.680 --> 00:18:59.460
your partner is going through and how you might

00:18:59.460 --> 00:19:01.779
be able to help with that can just be really

00:19:01.779 --> 00:19:05.079
really helpful for couples I Love that. That's

00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:07.099
awesome that you just treat the family as a whole

00:19:07.099 --> 00:19:10.140
as well, you know, because it really is the unit,

00:19:10.259 --> 00:19:12.039
you know That's what it is now. Yeah, it's a

00:19:12.039 --> 00:19:16.980
unit. Yeah so you mentioned, you know anger and

00:19:17.099 --> 00:19:20.740
and all of that um what about the term mom rage

00:19:20.740 --> 00:19:26.299
because i i know i get it from time to time same

00:19:26.299 --> 00:19:30.079
yeah and then the amount of guilt you feel afterwards

00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:32.779
and it just it's a vicious cycle right because

00:19:32.779 --> 00:19:35.480
you like you get to your wits end and then you

00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:38.480
lash out and then you're sad terrible and then

00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:41.579
you feel guilty and you're like this isn't the

00:19:41.579 --> 00:19:44.420
person i want to be um yeah so that's another

00:19:44.420 --> 00:19:47.059
part of postpartum that Um, you know, it's not

00:19:47.059 --> 00:19:50.240
like a diagnosable thing, but it's very, very

00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:55.000
common postpartum. So mom rage essentially is

00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:59.910
it's needs that aren't getting met. So. Whether

00:19:59.910 --> 00:20:03.430
that's I'm not sleeping, I'm not eating, I'm

00:20:03.430 --> 00:20:07.509
not taking care of myself, I'm overwhelmed, I

00:20:07.509 --> 00:20:10.190
don't have an identity anymore. I feel like I'm

00:20:10.190 --> 00:20:13.930
just giving, giving, giving and nobody's filling

00:20:13.930 --> 00:20:18.369
my cup. That's where a lot of the resentments

00:20:18.369 --> 00:20:23.609
come in and all these unmet needs make us really

00:20:23.609 --> 00:20:26.529
angry. Yeah. I always feel like when I get like

00:20:26.529 --> 00:20:29.430
that sometimes with the kids, it's like, I've

00:20:29.430 --> 00:20:32.009
never been that person. I've never fought with

00:20:32.009 --> 00:20:35.490
anybody. I've never been in a verbal altercation

00:20:35.490 --> 00:20:37.890
before. And now I'm going to have my first ones

00:20:37.890 --> 00:20:40.630
with my children. Like, what is going on? I've

00:20:40.630 --> 00:20:43.589
never been so upset with somebody before. Yeah.

00:20:44.549 --> 00:20:49.829
I mean, parenting's hard. It sure is. It's incredibly

00:20:49.829 --> 00:20:52.519
frustrating. I mean, You feel like you repeat

00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:54.819
yourself literally like 600 times of the same

00:20:54.819 --> 00:20:57.660
things and like nobody's listening. You know,

00:20:57.680 --> 00:20:59.440
and it's just, it's the frustration of like,

00:20:59.619 --> 00:21:02.559
we're coming at it from a adult, you know, fully

00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:05.539
developed brain and these children, they're not,

00:21:05.559 --> 00:21:07.299
you know, like they won't have fully developed

00:21:07.299 --> 00:21:11.539
brains for 25 years. So, you know, we expect

00:21:11.539 --> 00:21:13.339
that they're going to listen to everything we

00:21:13.339 --> 00:21:15.000
say and do what we're asking. And like, that's

00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:17.920
just not, it's not. you know, developmentally

00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:19.880
appropriate for them to be able to follow that.

00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:23.380
And it's just really incredibly frustrating,

00:21:23.380 --> 00:21:25.839
you know, especially when there's other like,

00:21:25.859 --> 00:21:27.279
stresses coming down, like I know, you know,

00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:30.559
everybody leaving the house is like, just so

00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:32.900
hard. And it's like, okay, now we're gonna be

00:21:32.900 --> 00:21:36.160
late. And it just all these other pressures start

00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:39.480
compiling, you know, as you're rushing, or you

00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:42.240
forget something, you know, that's so common.

00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:45.039
And then you feel like, oh, my gosh, I'm going

00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:47.880
to be judged. I'm the one mom with a kid who

00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:49.799
I didn't even bring a diaper back. Like, what

00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:52.759
am I doing? You know, like, it's just like, you

00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:54.720
know, but it's like you're human. Like, we're

00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:56.740
all human. And like, it's okay. It's okay to

00:21:56.740 --> 00:21:59.299
make mistakes. And it doesn't mean that you're

00:21:59.299 --> 00:22:02.339
a bad mom. It just means that you're human. And

00:22:02.339 --> 00:22:05.519
like, there is a lot going on. What would you

00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:07.960
say to the mom who does feel guilty or ashamed

00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:10.779
about having that, you know, kind of experience?

00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:14.160
How would therapy help them? you know, work through

00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:16.640
those feelings if they are really stressed. And

00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:19.440
I mean, my kids are five and eight now. So like,

00:22:19.500 --> 00:22:21.759
I'm dealing with it in a different level of probably

00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:24.339
past all that postpartum stuff. But, you know,

00:22:24.380 --> 00:22:26.539
what, what would you say to someone like, how

00:22:26.539 --> 00:22:29.400
could therapy help them with that? Yeah, so therapy

00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:32.400
can really provide you with tools. So coming

00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:36.200
up with, you know, things that you can do a just

00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:38.619
to take care of yourself. And sometimes that's

00:22:38.619 --> 00:22:40.980
setting boundaries or asking for the help that

00:22:40.980 --> 00:22:44.400
you need. are setting aside and scheduling that

00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:48.359
into your schedule. But it can also just be a

00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:50.460
placed event and get validated. And sometimes

00:22:50.460 --> 00:22:53.799
even just that validation can really go a long

00:22:53.799 --> 00:22:56.980
way to just normalize what we're experiencing.

00:22:58.339 --> 00:23:01.920
But there's also a ton of tips and tricks and

00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:05.859
identifying when is it that the anger strikes

00:23:05.859 --> 00:23:10.400
or what is that around? You know, it could just

00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:12.640
be that our environment is chaotic and we're

00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:15.019
overstimulated. And, you know, with little ones,

00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:17.460
they're banging the same thing over and over.

00:23:17.500 --> 00:23:20.380
You've got the TV going, the vacuum going, the,

00:23:20.380 --> 00:23:22.559
you know, the washer, the dryer, the dishwasher.

00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:24.599
And you're just like, oh my God, I'm going to

00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:26.859
lose my mind. Like it's all too much. Or the

00:23:26.859 --> 00:23:29.039
dog barking, you know, it's just, it's chaotic.

00:23:29.559 --> 00:23:31.200
It's very overstimulating. It doesn't bother

00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:34.700
them, but to us, it's just, it adds to like the

00:23:34.700 --> 00:23:36.819
chaos, especially if we're not, you know, well.

00:23:37.339 --> 00:23:42.920
mentally. So creating different tools and things

00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:46.119
that you can do so that you have a little bit

00:23:46.119 --> 00:23:48.859
more self -control. But that regular self -care

00:23:48.859 --> 00:23:51.059
also can just help with the baseline. So it's

00:23:51.059 --> 00:23:53.559
like, if you're feeling better and you're getting

00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:55.700
your needs met to a certain degree and you're

00:23:55.700 --> 00:23:58.940
able to take that time that you need, you are

00:23:58.940 --> 00:24:02.180
coming at it from a different place of coming

00:24:02.180 --> 00:24:04.460
at it when you're empty. Yeah, that's great.

00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:09.029
You need a toolbox. Yeah, yeah. A lot of times

00:24:09.029 --> 00:24:12.410
even just like dividing the load, you know, of

00:24:12.410 --> 00:24:16.170
the household can be such a relief and kind of,

00:24:16.329 --> 00:24:18.769
you know, like you said, kind of fix that baseline

00:24:18.769 --> 00:24:23.509
to begin with and that default parent role. It

00:24:23.509 --> 00:24:26.029
kind of happens without even like talking. about

00:24:26.029 --> 00:24:28.410
it right it just like you give birth and now

00:24:28.410 --> 00:24:30.609
all of a sudden you're the ceo of the family

00:24:30.609 --> 00:24:33.809
and yeah and everybody's schedule and everybody's

00:24:33.809 --> 00:24:35.670
existence and their doctor's appointments and

00:24:35.670 --> 00:24:39.490
their meals and clothing and everything um just

00:24:39.490 --> 00:24:42.190
depends on you so yeah so that's another piece

00:24:42.190 --> 00:24:45.150
that i feel like on my journey to creating evolving

00:24:45.150 --> 00:24:47.769
tree that really i think was the first time that

00:24:47.769 --> 00:24:51.230
i felt like so just seen and validated as a mom

00:24:51.230 --> 00:24:54.900
um i actually had a client come in and he was

00:24:54.900 --> 00:24:56.579
like talking to me about how things were better

00:24:56.579 --> 00:24:58.240
with him and his partner. I said, Oh, really?

00:24:58.299 --> 00:24:59.420
What changed? And he was like, Oh, we watched

00:24:59.420 --> 00:25:01.240
this documentary. And I was like, we're talking

00:25:01.240 --> 00:25:03.559
about tree. And he said, um, it's called fair

00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:05.660
play. It's on Hulu. And I was like, Oh, so I

00:25:05.660 --> 00:25:08.799
went home and I watched it and it was just so

00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:11.119
validating. So it talks about the history of

00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:14.440
women and. You know, our typical family. So if

00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:17.299
you look back to, you know, the 1950s, mom stayed

00:25:17.299 --> 00:25:19.660
at home and her goal was to take care of the

00:25:19.660 --> 00:25:23.160
house and parent the children and dad. was solely

00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:25.960
for income. Well, as, you know, society has changed,

00:25:26.019 --> 00:25:29.440
women have entered the workforce. The gender

00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:33.160
roles haven't caught up with where we're at and

00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:37.500
what the expectations of a mom is. So it's like

00:25:37.500 --> 00:25:40.599
now we get to do the all three. We get to take

00:25:40.599 --> 00:25:42.920
care of the house. We get to, you know, be the

00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:45.339
main parent for the children. And then we also

00:25:45.339 --> 00:25:48.680
get to work full time. And that's just like literally

00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:54.220
humanly impossible. Yeah. And oftentimes mom

00:25:54.220 --> 00:25:57.319
ends up being the default parent. And this isn't,

00:25:57.359 --> 00:25:59.259
I want to be very clear. Like there are so many

00:25:59.259 --> 00:26:04.140
dads who are amazing and this is not like, you

00:26:04.140 --> 00:26:07.579
know, man bashing or dad bashing or partner bashing.

00:26:07.779 --> 00:26:11.039
It's more just like, we are all raised in the

00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:15.019
same system with the same norms and like they're

00:26:15.019 --> 00:26:17.799
victims of this just as much as we are, you know,

00:26:17.799 --> 00:26:22.079
like This generation of fathers is so much more

00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:24.579
involved than even our generation of fathers

00:26:24.579 --> 00:26:27.259
were, you know, like they're changing diapers.

00:26:27.940 --> 00:26:29.680
They're, you know, bringing them to practice,

00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:31.880
you know, sometimes some dads are staying home

00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:34.539
nowadays. I mean, it's awesome. Like there are

00:26:34.539 --> 00:26:39.599
huge progress, but they're still oftentimes.

00:26:40.009 --> 00:26:42.609
differences as far as like who's handling what

00:26:42.609 --> 00:26:46.029
in the households and that really can weigh on

00:26:46.029 --> 00:26:50.190
mom because when she doesn't have help with the

00:26:50.190 --> 00:26:53.329
parenting and or you know the household chores

00:26:53.329 --> 00:26:57.269
it's like it's just it's so much and and the

00:26:57.269 --> 00:27:00.529
mental load of caring all that so like just a

00:27:00.529 --> 00:27:03.410
simple simple example is like you know the toothpaste

00:27:03.410 --> 00:27:07.470
runs low and then the next day a new tooth toothpaste

00:27:07.470 --> 00:27:10.450
arrives and Oh, and dad just brushes the teeth,

00:27:10.450 --> 00:27:12.089
head on his way. Like he didn't think about that.

00:27:12.349 --> 00:27:15.170
But mom is constantly scanning the cupboards,

00:27:15.490 --> 00:27:18.190
scanning, you know, making sure, stacking everything

00:27:18.190 --> 00:27:20.029
and bringing the kids to the doctor's appointments,

00:27:20.369 --> 00:27:22.450
the sports, all of it. Like, it's just, it's

00:27:22.450 --> 00:27:24.890
so much. So just really talking about how we

00:27:24.890 --> 00:27:26.990
need a shift. Like we've had such a shift with

00:27:26.990 --> 00:27:29.390
feminism, which has been amazing. But now it's

00:27:29.390 --> 00:27:33.250
like, this is now the calling. What feminism...

00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:36.420
was for women, this is now the calling of dividing

00:27:36.420 --> 00:27:40.319
up our household labor and doing it as fairly

00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:43.640
as we can. And that doesn't always mean 50 -50,

00:27:44.019 --> 00:27:47.660
because sometimes we don't work as much, or our

00:27:47.660 --> 00:27:50.220
jobs require different things of us. So maybe

00:27:50.220 --> 00:27:52.740
it's a 30 -70 split, and that works for you and

00:27:52.740 --> 00:27:56.259
your partner. But it's really just coming together

00:27:56.259 --> 00:27:59.740
as a team and realizing it's not like, what do

00:27:59.740 --> 00:28:02.660
you need help with? We also hate that question,

00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:04.960
right? It's like, okay, now I have to make a

00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:07.380
list of everything I need to do that I need help

00:28:07.380 --> 00:28:09.299
with. Like, you know, you're an adult, like look

00:28:09.299 --> 00:28:11.720
around, what needs to be done, you know? But

00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:15.640
really like stepping up and figuring out these

00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:17.559
are the ways in which you can help our family

00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:22.779
and contribute. And yes, I can't scream and say

00:28:22.779 --> 00:28:25.220
it enough if you have not seen fair play. I think

00:28:25.220 --> 00:28:27.200
it could be wonderful for couples to watch, but

00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:30.380
in the very least as a mom, it's so validating

00:28:30.380 --> 00:28:33.099
to our experience and just understanding why

00:28:33.099 --> 00:28:35.619
this is happening, what it looks like. And she

00:28:35.619 --> 00:28:38.220
also proposes solutions. She has like a whole,

00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:40.720
she calls it the Fair Play method, but it's essentially

00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:43.140
figuring out how to divide the household labor.

00:28:43.420 --> 00:28:45.650
And she has a deck of cards. It's like. a hundred

00:28:45.650 --> 00:28:48.470
different things that every household kind of

00:28:48.470 --> 00:28:51.109
needs to run. And if you own a card, essentially

00:28:51.109 --> 00:28:55.750
it's from conception through to execution. So,

00:28:56.029 --> 00:28:59.670
you know, if garbage is you, that means your

00:28:59.670 --> 00:29:02.289
wife doesn't think about garbage bags. If we

00:29:02.289 --> 00:29:04.369
need them, she does not take the garbage out.

00:29:04.430 --> 00:29:06.990
She just knows that you've got it. You're taking

00:29:06.990 --> 00:29:09.109
it out and she doesn't have to think about it

00:29:09.109 --> 00:29:11.329
anymore. And that relieves the mental load for

00:29:11.329 --> 00:29:14.480
mom. So the more that dad can take on some of

00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:20.140
that stuff, then her burden lessens. And it also

00:29:20.140 --> 00:29:22.460
benefits him. That's the other piece. Like your

00:29:22.460 --> 00:29:26.660
wife will be nicer later, happier. She might

00:29:26.660 --> 00:29:28.559
want to have sex with you if she's not so pissed

00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:30.559
off that you haven't done anything today. You

00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:35.079
know what I mean? Or like men, oftentimes like

00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:38.980
the chores and the tasks that they're traditionally

00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:42.819
do is like, you know, the yard work. So it's

00:29:42.819 --> 00:29:46.319
a lot of the stuff that gets recognition, people

00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:48.180
come over and they're like, Oh, well, your looks

00:29:48.180 --> 00:29:51.380
great or whatever, you know, or the different,

00:29:51.380 --> 00:29:54.880
you know, home improvements, maybe where mom,

00:29:55.339 --> 00:29:59.119
it's like invisible labor, like, she's doing

00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:02.140
the dishes and, you know, the laundry and just

00:30:02.269 --> 00:30:04.609
all those things that like constantly need to

00:30:04.609 --> 00:30:06.509
be done. It's not once a week, she's going out

00:30:06.509 --> 00:30:08.589
mowing the lawn. She's, you know, dishes and

00:30:08.589 --> 00:30:10.549
laundries all day long. So it's like, it's this

00:30:10.549 --> 00:30:13.789
invisible labor too that happens. And I just

00:30:13.789 --> 00:30:16.450
think that, you know, there's not a lot of understanding

00:30:16.450 --> 00:30:21.750
of how much is on women and how heavy and suffocating

00:30:21.750 --> 00:30:25.210
that can be and how much, if you can take some

00:30:25.210 --> 00:30:29.390
of that from her, it will just help you. And

00:30:29.390 --> 00:30:32.640
it's also to like, you know, educating that next

00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:35.400
generation. We want to raise sons and daughters

00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:38.339
that don't have these gender roles that jump

00:30:38.339 --> 00:30:41.519
in and just want to work together and don't even

00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:44.240
know who's supposed to handle what. It's like

00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:46.579
we as a family determine that. So, yeah. It's

00:30:46.579 --> 00:30:50.200
like our generation right now is, is forming

00:30:50.200 --> 00:30:53.700
that bridge to like get it that way. How exciting

00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:56.319
that is. Like we're, we're literally leading

00:30:56.319 --> 00:30:58.640
the future in, in this whole dynamic, you know,

00:30:58.640 --> 00:31:00.839
in how we raise our kids. But I think a lot of

00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:03.339
it It just comes down to great communication.

00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:06.039
We have to be open and willing to speak about

00:31:06.039 --> 00:31:09.059
these things and, you know, to share with our

00:31:09.059 --> 00:31:13.420
partner, like, look, I can't do everything and

00:31:13.420 --> 00:31:15.660
still be the happy -go -lucky and still want

00:31:15.660 --> 00:31:19.359
to jump in bed and, you know, and be your wife,

00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:21.599
like, at the end of the night, like, you know,

00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:24.559
because it's like... I'm exhausted. Yeah. Yeah.

00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:27.940
And I mean, my husband's great. I can't really

00:31:27.940 --> 00:31:31.190
complain. I mean, we have very... you know, open

00:31:31.190 --> 00:31:33.710
communication, we share everything, we share

00:31:33.710 --> 00:31:37.450
all the duties and stuff. But I can imagine if,

00:31:37.470 --> 00:31:40.529
you know, he was the typical like, oh, I'm going

00:31:40.529 --> 00:31:44.289
to go golfing all day Sunday after you just did

00:31:44.289 --> 00:31:46.730
everything all week, like, oh, all right, well,

00:31:47.109 --> 00:31:48.869
then you kind of build a little bit of resentment.

00:31:49.150 --> 00:31:52.950
And that's not a good addition to the equation,

00:31:52.990 --> 00:31:56.890
you know, but it's got to kind of be equal give

00:31:56.890 --> 00:31:59.670
and take, you know, and you both deserve that

00:31:59.670 --> 00:32:02.180
time. Yeah, you know, like, that's another thing,

00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:04.940
like, we look at as a society, like, you know,

00:32:05.099 --> 00:32:07.420
men's time is infinite, you know, the golf, the

00:32:07.420 --> 00:32:09.740
other things that, you know, is considered normal

00:32:09.740 --> 00:32:12.839
men things, but it's like, women don't necessarily

00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:14.920
have that, like, they think we just have like

00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:19.059
unlimited time to do all the things. And when

00:32:19.059 --> 00:32:22.160
we start, you know, valuing, and this goes back

00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:27.180
to, you know, Wages and what we pay women and

00:32:27.180 --> 00:32:28.920
for the same work as males, you know I mean we

00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:30.480
have a long way to go We've come a long way to

00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:32.920
not get me wrong We have a long way to go when

00:32:32.920 --> 00:32:35.119
we start valuing, you know child care providers

00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:38.579
and compensating them appropriately and Valuing

00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:40.500
stay -at -home moms because if you add up how

00:32:40.500 --> 00:32:42.160
much you would pay somebody to do what a stay

00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:46.059
-at -home mom does It's a pretty penny. So like

00:32:46.059 --> 00:32:48.599
she's a valuable. We're all valuable and our

00:32:48.599 --> 00:32:51.140
time is valuable and if we can respect that in

00:32:51.140 --> 00:32:54.920
each other it's only going to help your relationship

00:32:54.920 --> 00:32:58.279
and create more homoestasis at home. And who

00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:00.799
doesn't want that? We don't want conflict and

00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:04.740
resentment. We want everybody to be happy. Yeah,

00:33:04.819 --> 00:33:06.980
I mean, Emily mentioned in the last one, right,

00:33:07.019 --> 00:33:09.920
when you said like, mom's everything. She's the

00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:14.220
CEO. She's the I don't even know what you you

00:33:14.220 --> 00:33:16.759
rambled off like the CEO, the event planner,

00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:20.359
the chef, the cooker, the cleaner. Yeah, cruise

00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:23.640
director. We always joke about that. Like, what

00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:25.839
are we doing next? Geez, I don't know, bingo.

00:33:26.339 --> 00:33:30.579
Like, what is happening? The entertainment, yeah.

00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:34.500
Yeah, everything, you know. The magic. So yeah,

00:33:34.500 --> 00:33:36.359
that's why we were kind of influencing men to

00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:38.480
kind of fill up mom's cup a little bit last week,

00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:42.240
you know. But this is like, this is on a whole

00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:46.380
other level of filling mom's cup. It's, you know.

00:33:46.539 --> 00:33:50.359
Can make a huge difference. Yeah. Yeah. Why don't

00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:53.599
we get into the mental load of motherhood? Like,

00:33:53.859 --> 00:33:57.200
yeah, the mental load that comes with it. It's

00:33:57.200 --> 00:33:59.099
something that you guys highlight in your practice,

00:33:59.220 --> 00:34:01.259
what the mental load looks like, and why does

00:34:01.259 --> 00:34:05.859
it get overlooked? Yeah. So it's the mental load

00:34:05.859 --> 00:34:10.519
of motherhood, you know, the constant going that

00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:13.179
doesn't end, you know, it's like, Carly, you

00:34:13.179 --> 00:34:14.659
mentioned it last time, you're like, my husband

00:34:14.659 --> 00:34:16.710
just, you know, his head hits the pillow and

00:34:16.710 --> 00:34:18.329
he's passed out and you're like, and I'm planning

00:34:18.329 --> 00:34:22.010
out my whole next day and who needs what. And,

00:34:22.010 --> 00:34:24.710
you know, it's just, it doesn't ever stop when

00:34:24.710 --> 00:34:26.929
you're running a household. So, you know, the

00:34:26.929 --> 00:34:29.670
constant it's anywhere from figuring out, you

00:34:29.670 --> 00:34:32.110
know, what supplies we need, what do the kids

00:34:32.110 --> 00:34:35.150
need for, you know, the special spirit day or

00:34:35.150 --> 00:34:37.789
spirit week that we have going on. I mean, the

00:34:37.789 --> 00:34:40.250
expectations, I feel like of parents compared

00:34:40.250 --> 00:34:42.309
to even just when we were being raised. I mean,

00:34:42.460 --> 00:34:44.519
People I feel like threw together little birthday

00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:46.280
parties and not that they weren't very special

00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:49.860
but like I mean what we do for our kids now It's

00:34:49.860 --> 00:34:53.059
just it's so much more elaborate, you know, so

00:34:53.059 --> 00:34:55.900
there's just so much more I think planning that

00:34:55.900 --> 00:34:58.639
goes into it and then you add in the technology,

00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:01.679
you know, which can be such a blessing but it's

00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:05.559
also you know, it also adds sometimes to a lot

00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:08.699
of this too of you know what we need what things

00:35:08.699 --> 00:35:12.239
cost just to you know, function in normal day

00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:14.800
society. But yeah, I mean, it can go anywhere

00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:18.159
from just, you know, stocking the house to running

00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:21.699
the household to what are all the things that

00:35:21.699 --> 00:35:24.320
the children need getting them to all their doctor's

00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:25.980
appointments or dentist appointments. If you

00:35:25.980 --> 00:35:29.039
have a child who has special needs and has therapy

00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:31.500
appointments or treatments or whatever, I mean,

00:35:31.579 --> 00:35:35.210
you're coordinating everybody and the childcare,

00:35:35.550 --> 00:35:36.949
you know, if you're working and you're not the

00:35:36.949 --> 00:35:39.150
one that's doing all the running around, it's

00:35:39.150 --> 00:35:41.449
who's coordinating, who's picking them up at

00:35:41.449 --> 00:35:43.869
what time and getting them to do they have, you

00:35:43.869 --> 00:35:46.550
know, everything in their lunchbox, they're,

00:35:46.570 --> 00:35:49.909
you know, I forgot to send a drink or they got

00:35:49.909 --> 00:35:51.869
sent to school today without a coat, or, you

00:35:51.869 --> 00:35:54.230
know, I mean, it just, I couldn't, I could go

00:35:54.230 --> 00:35:58.530
on and on and on. I just, you know. all the improvements

00:35:58.530 --> 00:36:02.110
around the house, the projects, you know, um,

00:36:02.449 --> 00:36:06.530
it's just, it's, it's so much. And I don't think

00:36:06.530 --> 00:36:08.369
we give women enough credit for all that they

00:36:08.369 --> 00:36:13.329
do and the weight of all that they do and the

00:36:13.329 --> 00:36:16.409
exhaustion. Like it, it's just, it's so much.

00:36:16.650 --> 00:36:19.630
So really being able to name it, acknowledge

00:36:19.630 --> 00:36:25.050
it, talk about it, um, and find ways to also

00:36:25.050 --> 00:36:29.059
like, heal from it, find solutions, find, you

00:36:29.059 --> 00:36:32.480
know, what's your values? What's important? You

00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:34.440
don't have to do all the things because that's

00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:36.980
what social media is telling us to do. Like,

00:36:36.980 --> 00:36:40.340
what's important to you and your family? And

00:36:40.340 --> 00:36:42.559
what if you weren't to do all the other things

00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:44.360
that you don't value or don't align with your

00:36:44.360 --> 00:36:47.699
values? And like, how can we simplify this and

00:36:47.699 --> 00:36:49.699
make it better for you and more manageable for

00:36:49.699 --> 00:36:52.730
you? Yeah, that's great. I feel like I need to

00:36:52.730 --> 00:36:57.110
book a segment with you. Where do I sign up?

00:36:59.010 --> 00:37:04.070
Check, check, check, check. So what about like,

00:37:04.110 --> 00:37:07.369
I know a lot of, like I said before in the last

00:37:07.369 --> 00:37:10.590
one, you lose your identity a bit as you know,

00:37:10.590 --> 00:37:14.650
when you become a mom. And I just recently started

00:37:14.650 --> 00:37:18.389
getting back into my hobbies and things that

00:37:18.389 --> 00:37:22.650
like pulled out that past. side of myself. And

00:37:22.650 --> 00:37:26.090
I know that made a huge difference for my personal

00:37:26.090 --> 00:37:29.190
self. Like, is that something that you kind of

00:37:29.190 --> 00:37:32.449
encourage in your practice? Yes, it's another,

00:37:32.449 --> 00:37:39.250
you know, piece of evolving. And that's one of

00:37:39.250 --> 00:37:42.309
the reasons for the name evolving tree therapy

00:37:42.309 --> 00:37:45.670
is, you know, mom's the tree of life. But motherhood

00:37:45.670 --> 00:37:50.579
truly calls us to the table and to stand up and

00:37:50.579 --> 00:37:55.300
continue to evolve as a human being and also

00:37:55.300 --> 00:37:58.739
evolve as a woman and a mother and all the different

00:37:58.739 --> 00:38:02.780
roles that we have in our life. And, you know,

00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:07.530
really getting back to figuring out, like, What

00:38:07.530 --> 00:38:10.829
is my identity? Because it gets so lost in early

00:38:10.829 --> 00:38:13.730
motherhood. And as much as, you know, motherhood

00:38:13.730 --> 00:38:16.389
is part of our identity, it's not our only identity.

00:38:16.429 --> 00:38:20.530
And it's okay to have interests and hobbies and

00:38:20.530 --> 00:38:24.030
things that make you feel like you, the you that

00:38:24.030 --> 00:38:27.269
you knew before you had kids. Like that is okay.

00:38:27.610 --> 00:38:30.670
It's okay to want those things. It's okay to

00:38:30.670 --> 00:38:33.730
want free time to be able to, um, I don't know,

00:38:33.769 --> 00:38:36.010
walk into a store and not have to carry in two

00:38:36.010 --> 00:38:37.769
children. You know, I mean, like it's like the

00:38:37.769 --> 00:38:41.690
simplest things. Yeah. You know, but once you

00:38:41.690 --> 00:38:44.449
have kids, it gets so complex and like nothing's

00:38:44.449 --> 00:38:47.789
just easy anymore. You know, so really being

00:38:47.789 --> 00:38:53.369
able to explore that. And I also will, you know,

00:38:53.510 --> 00:38:56.329
ask clients, well, who do you want to be? Like

00:38:56.329 --> 00:39:01.150
your workload has nearly doubled, if not tripled

00:39:01.150 --> 00:39:05.280
and you know, who do you envision yourself being

00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:07.940
like what's important to you? Because that's

00:39:07.940 --> 00:39:10.199
part of it is we do continue to evolve and change

00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:12.780
and who we are today isn't who we are 10 years

00:39:12.780 --> 00:39:16.159
ago or pre kids. But who do you want to be? I

00:39:16.159 --> 00:39:18.039
think that's the beauty in life is like, we can

00:39:18.039 --> 00:39:20.400
choose to a certain degree, you know, of course,

00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:22.800
there's our innate characteristics and things

00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:25.719
that interest us and don't and whatever, but

00:39:25.719 --> 00:39:29.119
we can also continue to evolve and change and

00:39:29.969 --> 00:39:32.449
Rediscover ourselves and find ourselves and motherhood

00:39:32.449 --> 00:39:35.150
you can have it all like you don't have to change

00:39:35.150 --> 00:39:38.329
into that Frumpy mom or whatever you want to

00:39:38.329 --> 00:39:41.150
call it, you know where it's like my only existence

00:39:41.150 --> 00:39:44.070
is to cater to everybody else It's like no you

00:39:44.070 --> 00:39:46.989
will be able to be a better mom when you're able

00:39:46.989 --> 00:39:49.829
to fill some of your own needs Because you're

00:39:49.829 --> 00:39:52.269
not pouring from an empty cup, you know, totally

00:39:52.269 --> 00:39:56.010
That's yeah, I feel that way big -time you your

00:39:56.010 --> 00:39:58.579
cup needs to have some a fluid in it If you're

00:39:58.579 --> 00:40:01.039
gonna give it to everybody else. Yeah, can't

00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:05.000
can't pour from an empty cup for sure. So how

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:07.780
can talk therapy? Like, you know what we're doing

00:40:07.780 --> 00:40:10.820
now? Because I feel great. I feel fantastic.

00:40:13.260 --> 00:40:16.980
Great. How can talk therapy like help guide someone

00:40:16.980 --> 00:40:20.219
through this transformation? Because, you know,

00:40:20.219 --> 00:40:23.539
when I look back at becoming a mom, it feels

00:40:23.539 --> 00:40:27.539
like a blur spots. I don't remember. Right. And

00:40:27.539 --> 00:40:30.179
I do feel like I'm still the same person. Clearly.

00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:33.239
I'm probably not, you know, I might have a sense

00:40:33.239 --> 00:40:36.360
of self, but like how if someone really does

00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:38.119
feel like, geez, I'm just I'm just not myself.

00:40:38.119 --> 00:40:40.880
And I want to feel that girl again. I want to,

00:40:40.900 --> 00:40:44.539
you know, what is what's like, how could you

00:40:44.539 --> 00:40:46.980
guide them through that? Can we give our listeners

00:40:46.980 --> 00:40:53.019
some tips? Absolutely. You know, it's. I feel

00:40:53.019 --> 00:40:54.579
like we do a whole bunch of different things.

00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:56.739
It, of course, depends on the client and what

00:40:56.739 --> 00:41:00.079
they're identifying they want to do. But I think

00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:03.139
it's a lot of just it's listening, it's exploring,

00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:07.340
it's allowing them to genuinely talk in a safe

00:41:07.340 --> 00:41:11.800
space where I'm not going to judge you. We all

00:41:11.800 --> 00:41:15.800
have intense feelings. We are all complex beings.

00:41:16.420 --> 00:41:21.369
It's OK to say that. things suck or you don't

00:41:21.369 --> 00:41:24.409
like this or you hate this about yourself or

00:41:24.409 --> 00:41:26.269
you really wanted to love motherhood and you're

00:41:26.269 --> 00:41:28.409
really just finding yourself really resentful

00:41:28.409 --> 00:41:30.969
about it and like there's room for it all and

00:41:30.969 --> 00:41:33.949
it's okay to say those taboo things that society

00:41:33.949 --> 00:41:36.969
tells us it's not okay to say and really just

00:41:36.969 --> 00:41:40.070
creating that space and the work that you can

00:41:40.070 --> 00:41:42.710
do like I also say like it's almost a gift to

00:41:42.710 --> 00:41:44.969
give yourself that that one hour that you're

00:41:44.969 --> 00:41:47.940
going to carve out once a week that's just for

00:41:47.940 --> 00:41:50.340
you, like, whatever it is that you want to talk

00:41:50.340 --> 00:41:54.019
about, this is your hour to talk about anything.

00:41:54.619 --> 00:41:57.400
And, you know, a lot of it, yeah, it's exploring,

00:41:57.659 --> 00:41:59.960
it's coming up with solutions, it's identifying,

00:41:59.980 --> 00:42:02.179
like, what is important to you? What do you want

00:42:02.179 --> 00:42:04.760
to be important to you? How do we align what

00:42:04.760 --> 00:42:08.239
our actions are with those values or the outcomes

00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:11.340
that you're looking to do? You know, how do we

00:42:11.340 --> 00:42:13.699
set boundaries with family members that are being

00:42:13.699 --> 00:42:17.250
too pushy or, you know, Pushing you in a direction

00:42:17.250 --> 00:42:20.050
that you don't want to be in You know, or how

00:42:20.050 --> 00:42:21.909
do you ask for help? What are you doing to take

00:42:21.909 --> 00:42:23.869
care of yourself? Who are those people in your

00:42:23.869 --> 00:42:26.909
life? That's important to you, you know to like

00:42:26.909 --> 00:42:30.690
we work with Kind of a spectrum arranged so we'll

00:42:30.690 --> 00:42:32.769
work with people who are like preconceptions

00:42:32.769 --> 00:42:34.530
so like somebody who might just be like thinking

00:42:34.530 --> 00:42:36.989
about getting pregnant and wants to explore that

00:42:36.989 --> 00:42:39.369
or Maybe they didn't imagine themselves having

00:42:39.369 --> 00:42:40.889
kids and all of a sudden, you know, they turn

00:42:40.889 --> 00:42:43.920
39 now they're having that anxiety and they want

00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:47.239
to like explore that to, you know, people who

00:42:47.239 --> 00:42:51.639
maybe have experienced pregnancy loss to infertility,

00:42:51.780 --> 00:42:53.340
people going through the infertility process

00:42:53.340 --> 00:42:57.420
and how hard and challenging and emotional and

00:42:57.420 --> 00:43:01.170
sad that can be. you know, through to people

00:43:01.170 --> 00:43:04.590
who are currently pregnant. I think that's an

00:43:04.590 --> 00:43:07.829
awesome time to come to therapy because it also

00:43:07.829 --> 00:43:11.030
gives you a space to talk about some of the stuff

00:43:11.030 --> 00:43:14.329
before you're actually in it. um to create a

00:43:14.329 --> 00:43:16.210
plan and it doesn't mean that because we create

00:43:16.210 --> 00:43:17.889
a plan it's going to be what the plan is but

00:43:17.889 --> 00:43:20.090
the important piece is like having these conversations

00:43:20.090 --> 00:43:22.170
like who is your village who's going to do the

00:43:22.170 --> 00:43:25.690
mail train for you who can you call when you

00:43:25.690 --> 00:43:27.869
are sleep deprived and losing your mind you know

00:43:27.869 --> 00:43:30.510
and this baby's screaming and you don't know

00:43:30.510 --> 00:43:32.630
what else to do with yourself besides walk away

00:43:32.630 --> 00:43:35.789
you know like who are those people for you um

00:43:35.789 --> 00:43:38.489
who's going to handle what like when the baby

00:43:38.489 --> 00:43:40.929
comes home. I mean, we spent so much time, I

00:43:40.929 --> 00:43:43.230
feel like talking about what the nursery is going

00:43:43.230 --> 00:43:47.210
to look like and where we're registered and what,

00:43:47.210 --> 00:43:50.289
you know, car seats going to work best. But like,

00:43:50.369 --> 00:43:52.789
we don't talk about who's going to be washing

00:43:52.789 --> 00:43:54.989
the dishes and who's getting up and changing

00:43:54.989 --> 00:43:57.710
the baby. And like, those things are just as

00:43:57.710 --> 00:44:00.269
important, if not more to talk about and plan

00:44:00.269 --> 00:44:03.070
for and think about, like as part of your kind

00:44:03.070 --> 00:44:07.920
of birthing plan. So we work with those families.

00:44:08.980 --> 00:44:11.940
We work with, you know, once they give birth

00:44:11.940 --> 00:44:15.219
and then we essentially will work with people

00:44:15.219 --> 00:44:17.260
up until we call it like parenting littles. So

00:44:17.260 --> 00:44:19.579
like anybody who has a kid like five or below.

00:44:20.900 --> 00:44:23.219
So really, you know, the people who are in the

00:44:23.219 --> 00:44:27.619
thick of it and how can we help them feel rooted

00:44:27.619 --> 00:44:31.920
and grounded and give them some tools so that

00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:35.139
life doesn't have to be as painful as it is when

00:44:35.139 --> 00:44:38.380
they make that phone call that they need some

00:44:38.380 --> 00:44:43.699
support. Yeah, it's kind of like pre, uh, like

00:44:43.699 --> 00:44:47.519
you said, like pre -planning or preventing the,

00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:51.239
you know, that to take place. I wish I knew you

00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:55.000
when I was going through it because honestly,

00:44:55.039 --> 00:44:57.880
like, I'm not in the thick of it now, but when

00:44:57.880 --> 00:45:00.920
I was, I was struggling and I was hiding it and

00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:04.619
I was not vocal with, you know, even my husband.

00:45:04.659 --> 00:45:06.480
Like, yeah, I mean, he would kind of see that

00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:08.659
he would come home and I look like I'd been crying

00:45:08.659 --> 00:45:15.019
and he kind of got it. But it was it was not

00:45:15.019 --> 00:45:18.820
easy. It was not easy. And I didn't I wish I

00:45:18.820 --> 00:45:22.099
was more brave to like share it because it is

00:45:22.099 --> 00:45:24.619
I think a lot more women go through it than we

00:45:24.619 --> 00:45:27.719
realize. And, you know, you just have to know

00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:30.239
like you're not alone. We're not the only one

00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:33.809
who feels this way. There is help out there.

00:45:34.610 --> 00:45:37.050
Yeah. And that's essentially, it really gave

00:45:37.050 --> 00:45:41.210
me a purpose and passion and desire to create

00:45:41.210 --> 00:45:44.369
this space for other moms. I wish I knew me too,

00:45:44.429 --> 00:45:45.929
because I didn't even think about those things.

00:45:46.539 --> 00:45:49.099
But now that I've done all this training to specialize

00:45:49.099 --> 00:45:51.280
in this, I'm like, gosh, there's so many things

00:45:51.280 --> 00:45:55.360
we can't do. And why is this not just the standard

00:45:55.360 --> 00:45:58.139
of care that you go to your OB and she's like,

00:45:58.260 --> 00:45:59.800
oh, OK, here. Here's the evolving tree. They're

00:45:59.800 --> 00:46:01.639
going to help you set up a plan for you and your

00:46:01.639 --> 00:46:04.199
husband for when the baby comes home. Start talking

00:46:04.199 --> 00:46:08.389
to them. That's genius. Absolutely genius. Like

00:46:08.389 --> 00:46:10.530
we think about all the other things, how we're

00:46:10.530 --> 00:46:12.329
going to pay for things, what daycare they're

00:46:12.329 --> 00:46:14.650
going to go to, but we don't talk about our relationship

00:46:14.650 --> 00:46:17.090
or how our mental health is going to change once

00:46:17.090 --> 00:46:21.349
we bring a baby into this world. Oh, you're incredible.

00:46:21.730 --> 00:46:24.570
I love you. Just want to hug all the mamas. I

00:46:24.570 --> 00:46:26.730
just want to give them so much love they deserve

00:46:26.730 --> 00:46:29.789
and so much recognition. Thank you so much for

00:46:29.789 --> 00:46:33.030
sharing your story too with us to be vulnerable.

00:46:33.610 --> 00:46:36.210
you know, just because you do the therapy doesn't

00:46:36.210 --> 00:46:38.469
mean that you're not going to go through it,

00:46:38.610 --> 00:46:41.789
right? Yes. Yes. We're people too. You know,

00:46:42.989 --> 00:46:45.969
yeah, I think. And that's the thing. It's like

00:46:45.969 --> 00:46:47.510
hearing I'm a therapist and I'm going through

00:46:47.510 --> 00:46:50.750
postpartum and like I was like blindsided. I

00:46:50.750 --> 00:46:53.010
didn't expect that because I didn't experience

00:46:53.010 --> 00:46:56.050
it with my first one. You know, so I do this

00:46:56.050 --> 00:46:58.369
day in and day out and I was blindsided. So if

00:46:58.369 --> 00:47:00.349
I'm blindsided, you know, there's a lot of other

00:47:00.349 --> 00:47:02.650
mamas out there who are too. Absolutely. But

00:47:02.650 --> 00:47:06.730
it gave you that, you know, that experience.

00:47:06.750 --> 00:47:09.050
So now you really know what you're talking about.

00:47:09.250 --> 00:47:11.610
And whoever comes and talks to you, they're going

00:47:11.610 --> 00:47:14.969
to immediately know that, like, you get it. You

00:47:14.969 --> 00:47:18.309
hear them. You've been through it. There is zero

00:47:18.309 --> 00:47:20.849
judgment. And I love that because really, I mean,

00:47:21.010 --> 00:47:23.809
the best teachers are the ones who actually went

00:47:23.809 --> 00:47:26.619
through it. I love when like your OB's a guy

00:47:26.619 --> 00:47:28.400
and he's like, oh yeah, so you're going to feel

00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:34.440
best. Are you married a child? Like, yeah, you

00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:39.599
studied it. I'll give you that. No, no, I just

00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:42.159
love you and everything about this whole, all

00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:44.599
of it. And I really hope that if there's any

00:47:44.599 --> 00:47:47.440
mommies out there that are in the thick of it

00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:49.539
to reach out. So like, how can they get ahold

00:47:49.539 --> 00:47:53.780
of you, Jacqueline? Yeah. Um, so they can, the

00:47:53.780 --> 00:47:55.440
best way is just to check out our website. It's

00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:58.280
just evolving treat therapy .com. Um, on there,

00:47:58.460 --> 00:48:00.139
there's an appointment request. They can just

00:48:00.139 --> 00:48:04.059
enter their information and I do all the intake

00:48:04.059 --> 00:48:06.920
calls and the pairing with my therapists that

00:48:06.920 --> 00:48:09.889
work for us and, um, Yeah, it's a very easy,

00:48:10.110 --> 00:48:13.050
simple process. We're really flexible. So we

00:48:13.050 --> 00:48:15.449
do have locations in the Northwest corner of

00:48:15.449 --> 00:48:18.610
Connecticut. So Torrington, Winstead and Canaan.

00:48:18.869 --> 00:48:21.130
We also can treat anyone virtually in the state

00:48:21.130 --> 00:48:23.710
of Connecticut. And honestly, moms, you know,

00:48:23.809 --> 00:48:26.030
virtual is like a godsend. It just makes it so

00:48:26.030 --> 00:48:28.250
much easier to just kind of run out, lock yourself

00:48:28.250 --> 00:48:31.329
in the car or, you know, the garage or whatever

00:48:31.329 --> 00:48:35.510
works to get your time. But, you know, you can

00:48:35.510 --> 00:48:37.110
really take the call from wherever and we'll

00:48:37.110 --> 00:48:39.210
meet you wherever you're at. and whatever we

00:48:39.210 --> 00:48:43.289
can do to help and support and you know it it's

00:48:43.289 --> 00:48:46.130
a gift that continues giving because you're giving

00:48:46.130 --> 00:48:51.090
the gift of a healthy mom to your kids yeah i

00:48:51.090 --> 00:48:55.030
have goosebumps i know it's so good it's so good

00:48:55.030 --> 00:48:59.130
so we gave jacklyn the honor of picking our weekly

00:48:59.130 --> 00:49:03.809
quote and i think it's just phenomenal so what

00:49:03.809 --> 00:49:08.369
do you got for us jacklyn okay so No one even

00:49:08.369 --> 00:49:11.250
mentioned it in nine whole months. Not one person

00:49:11.250 --> 00:49:14.889
said you're about to meet someone Entirely new

00:49:14.889 --> 00:49:18.070
and it's not your baby. It's going to be you.

00:49:18.070 --> 00:49:24.449
I'm not crying. You're crying. Okay Mike drop

00:49:24.449 --> 00:49:27.929
My goodness Jacqueline has been such a pleasure.

00:49:28.389 --> 00:49:30.610
Thank you so much for being our first guest on

00:49:30.610 --> 00:49:33.289
our podcast. This is having me. This was lovely

00:49:34.019 --> 00:49:37.380
Well, you're amazing you're incredible inside

00:49:37.380 --> 00:49:40.739
and out such a lovely person anyone who is out

00:49:40.739 --> 00:49:44.579
there reach out Get the help that you deserve

00:49:44.579 --> 00:49:47.659
because you're not alone There are other mommies

00:49:47.659 --> 00:49:50.199
just like you and you can get through this So

00:49:50.199 --> 00:49:53.179
I hope everyone has a really great week special

00:49:53.179 --> 00:49:56.619
week fill your cup mom's and as always keep it

00:49:56.619 --> 00:49:56.900
good