WEBVTT 00:00:03.469 --> 00:00:07.129 This is The icoachcricket Podcast. John Abrahams 00:00:07.129 --> 00:00:09.390 was captain of Lancashire before working for 00:00:09.390 --> 00:00:12.369 many years in different roles at the ECB. He 00:00:12.369 --> 00:00:15.289 was a national coach, manager of the under -19s 00:00:15.289 --> 00:00:17.269 and has been involved in coach development for 00:00:17.269 --> 00:00:20.269 more than 30 years. He was widely regarded as 00:00:20.269 --> 00:00:23.469 a clever and skilful captain and his personable 00:00:23.469 --> 00:00:26.250 style made him a very popular figure in coaching. 00:00:26.469 --> 00:00:28.949 He's been talking to Tim Dellor about the art 00:00:28.949 --> 00:00:37.100 of coaching captains. Right, look, the first 00:00:37.100 --> 00:00:38.619 thing to do, and I don't want to immediately 00:00:38.619 --> 00:00:42.420 age you here, AB, but you look at the face, you 00:00:42.420 --> 00:00:45.579 look appalled by the suggestion. But captaincy, 00:00:45.579 --> 00:00:48.740 yeah, and coaching captaincy. When you were about 00:00:48.740 --> 00:00:52.219 to begin captaincy at Lancashire a few years 00:00:52.219 --> 00:00:56.320 back, did you get a lot of help in learning the 00:00:56.320 --> 00:00:58.520 skills? Because it's, I think, quite possible, 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:00.679 isn't it, to get to the top level as a player 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:03.020 and actually not really have done much captaincy 00:01:03.020 --> 00:01:08.719 before. tutored and coached in the art of captaincy. 00:01:08.799 --> 00:01:11.319 Years ago, in the days of black and white television, 00:01:11.480 --> 00:01:13.280 that's when you're talking away. You've been 00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:15.500 very polite, really, Tim. I'm trying to be polite. 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:19.000 You are, you are. Bless you. No, nothing at all. 00:01:19.299 --> 00:01:21.239 Captained a couple of games in the second team, 00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:24.159 and that did all right. People, whoever, obviously 00:01:24.159 --> 00:01:26.819 recognise that there were one or two attributes 00:01:26.819 --> 00:01:30.400 there that might help. When Clive Lloyd... Name 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:33.239 drop. First name drop, Tim. I'm sure of many, 00:01:33.340 --> 00:01:36.920 I'm sure. When Clive wasn't available part of 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:40.079 the season, I was interim captain and then did 00:01:40.079 --> 00:01:41.939 it well enough to be appointed full -time captain 00:01:41.939 --> 00:01:44.620 the following year. But no, nothing at all from 00:01:44.620 --> 00:01:49.060 either formally or informally as far as what's 00:01:49.060 --> 00:01:52.019 to be expected and how people could help me and 00:01:52.019 --> 00:01:54.420 point you in the right direction. None whatsoever. 00:01:54.980 --> 00:01:57.519 So let me guess, those attributes that you mentioned 00:01:57.519 --> 00:01:59.760 that people might have spotted. I'm thinking 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:03.379 your personality and perhaps your curiosity and 00:02:03.379 --> 00:02:05.819 general interest in the game, do you think have 00:02:05.819 --> 00:02:09.180 been top of people's list? No, absolutely. It's 00:02:09.180 --> 00:02:11.259 not for me to say about personality, but curiosity, 00:02:11.500 --> 00:02:14.159 definitely. I wouldn't go so far as to say I 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:16.960 was a student of the game, but I did watch the 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:19.800 game, I did listen to people, I did talk to people. 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:23.460 As an example, when I was first appointed interim 00:02:23.460 --> 00:02:26.430 captain, even though I could... I have a room 00:02:26.430 --> 00:02:28.590 on my own when we played the away games. I chose 00:02:28.590 --> 00:02:32.550 to room with David Lloyd, who had captained Lancashire 00:02:32.550 --> 00:02:35.750 First team, and very well too. I mean, he had 00:02:35.750 --> 00:02:38.389 attributes, you know, from a tactical point of 00:02:38.389 --> 00:02:41.090 view, knowledge of the game. And then it just 00:02:41.090 --> 00:02:43.310 gave me the opportunity at the end of a day's 00:02:43.310 --> 00:02:46.090 play just to talk about what had happened, how 00:02:46.090 --> 00:02:48.990 he thought I had done, anything I could do differently 00:02:48.990 --> 00:02:51.969 for whatever reason. And that was probably the 00:02:51.969 --> 00:02:57.599 first informal... tutoring or teaching or learning 00:02:57.599 --> 00:03:00.479 from me as a newly appointed captain and just 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:03.300 as an aside taking over from clive lloyd i mean 00:03:03.300 --> 00:03:05.240 wow that must have been quite scary they didn't 00:03:05.240 --> 00:03:07.879 come much bigger than that as legends in the 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:09.780 game he was captain the west indies captain of 00:03:09.780 --> 00:03:12.560 Lancashire one of the world's greatest did 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:15.860 that A bit intimidating? It didn't, actually. 00:03:15.900 --> 00:03:19.080 I didn't look on it as that. I mean, it was intimidating 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:21.699 enough that you were the captain of a first -class 00:03:21.699 --> 00:03:24.759 county, let alone standing in for somebody, as 00:03:24.759 --> 00:03:26.919 you quite rightly say, was a legend of the game, 00:03:27.060 --> 00:03:29.900 and one of my heroes, literally one of my heroes 00:03:29.900 --> 00:03:33.759 within the game. The way he captained was by 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:37.599 example. He was a great role model, and he did 00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:41.159 everything right, and he gave his 100 % on the 00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:45.039 field. He obviously affected matches for the 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:47.580 County first team. So if we wanted 00:03:47.580 --> 00:03:49.639 to win a game, Clive would go in and score the 00:03:49.639 --> 00:03:52.259 quick 40 or 50 or score the long 100 if that 00:03:52.259 --> 00:03:55.800 was required. So he led in that way by example, 00:03:56.020 --> 00:03:58.460 which is something that I couldn't do. I wasn't 00:03:58.460 --> 00:04:01.000 Clive Lloyd as a player. It didn't intimidate 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:03.680 me, put it that way, about following in his footsteps. 00:04:04.099 --> 00:04:07.080 I had enough to think about being captain of 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:09.539 the County Club. In a previous episode, I spoke 00:04:09.539 --> 00:04:11.990 to Lottie Edwards about this. Something that 00:04:11.990 --> 00:04:14.250 we could easily skip over and forget to mention 00:04:14.250 --> 00:04:16.370 whilst we're chatting now is keeping your own 00:04:16.370 --> 00:04:19.370 game in good order when you're captain. So, you 00:04:19.370 --> 00:04:21.290 know, you very modestly, it's typically self 00:04:21.290 --> 00:04:23.209 -deprecating. You say, well, I couldn't do that. 00:04:23.269 --> 00:04:24.930 But, you know, you were probably opening the 00:04:24.930 --> 00:04:26.910 batting and you must have been where you were. 00:04:26.990 --> 00:04:30.449 I remember, I'm old enough to remember. You've 00:04:30.449 --> 00:04:32.430 put in many a valuable performance as captain, 00:04:32.470 --> 00:04:35.410 but that is quite a tough demand, isn't it? Where 00:04:35.410 --> 00:04:37.629 you could get... Well, we've seen it time and 00:04:37.629 --> 00:04:40.329 again. Captains appointed and their own game, 00:04:40.470 --> 00:04:43.790 the numbers drop off. No, no, you're absolutely 00:04:43.790 --> 00:04:47.449 right. And hopefully one of the messages to all... 00:04:47.689 --> 00:04:50.250 future captains, always look after your own game. 00:04:50.730 --> 00:04:53.430 Because if you do perform whatever contributions 00:04:53.430 --> 00:04:56.529 you do make in a positive way to the team's performance, 00:04:56.870 --> 00:04:59.709 it gives you greater credibility. It makes it 00:04:59.709 --> 00:05:01.569 easier then for you to stand up at the end of 00:05:01.569 --> 00:05:04.089 a day's play and say to people, listen, you know, 00:05:04.110 --> 00:05:05.949 we didn't do that quite well enough, batting 00:05:05.949 --> 00:05:08.410 or bowling or fielding or whatever. But yeah, 00:05:08.449 --> 00:05:11.629 do look after your own game. You said self -deprecatingly. 00:05:11.670 --> 00:05:13.730 I mean, there weren't many players as good as 00:05:13.730 --> 00:05:15.889 Clive Lloyd or could do what Clive Lloyd did. 00:05:16.509 --> 00:05:19.329 But in your own way, your contributions, what 00:05:19.329 --> 00:05:22.529 you did, like sticking in, you'd lost three wickets 00:05:22.529 --> 00:05:25.129 for 30 runs or whatever and you fought it out 00:05:25.129 --> 00:05:28.709 and you got a valuable 40. If you like, that 00:05:28.709 --> 00:05:30.189 was the sort of innings, that was the sort of 00:05:30.189 --> 00:05:33.870 player that I was. Always, yeah, if you can do, 00:05:34.009 --> 00:05:36.610 if you can do, do try and put aside some time. 00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:39.360 to make sure that your game is in order. And 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:41.540 you justify your place, really, in the side as 00:05:41.540 --> 00:05:44.860 a player. What about the role of coaches helping 00:05:44.860 --> 00:05:47.819 captains? Because, again, it's such a crucial 00:05:47.819 --> 00:05:49.959 link, isn't it? You've got to get a very tight 00:05:49.959 --> 00:05:53.259 link and they've got to be, to some extent, singing 00:05:53.259 --> 00:05:55.560 off the same song sheet, but also complimenting 00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:58.430 each other. It's quite a difficult... a relationship 00:05:58.430 --> 00:06:01.129 at times, I'd guess. What would you want from 00:06:01.129 --> 00:06:04.089 a coach and how should coaches make sure their 00:06:04.089 --> 00:06:06.790 captains get it as easy as possible? Listen, 00:06:07.129 --> 00:06:10.329 and I'll use myself as an example. The time I 00:06:10.329 --> 00:06:12.430 was captain of Lancashire First Team, we had 00:06:12.430 --> 00:06:15.870 a first team coach and we had a manager who didn't 00:06:15.870 --> 00:06:18.670 see eye to eye on occasions. I'll give you an 00:06:18.670 --> 00:06:20.569 example. We played down at Birmingham against 00:06:20.569 --> 00:06:22.829 Warwickshire and I had a meal with the coach 00:06:22.829 --> 00:06:26.269 one evening and he told me or suggested to me, 00:06:26.310 --> 00:06:29.279 this is how you should. play the game and this 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:31.459 is in the middle of a three -day game as it was 00:06:31.459 --> 00:06:34.459 then and literally the following night in the 00:06:34.459 --> 00:06:36.680 same restaurant more or less at the same table 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:39.199 the manager told me that this is what I think 00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:41.720 you should do and they were totally the opposite 00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:44.660 which puts you in an awkward situation a little 00:06:44.660 --> 00:06:47.300 bit and you try and try and speak to both and 00:06:47.300 --> 00:06:49.620 explain the situation and try and compromise 00:06:49.620 --> 00:06:51.939 but then at the end of the day having listened 00:06:51.939 --> 00:06:55.220 to advice from coach as it was then from manager 00:06:55.220 --> 00:06:58.410 as it was then ultimately you've got to make 00:06:58.410 --> 00:07:00.589 the decisions you know you're out there in the 00:07:00.589 --> 00:07:03.550 middle you see the game unfolding and you've 00:07:03.550 --> 00:07:06.449 got to make the decisions the point being that 00:07:06.449 --> 00:07:09.350 you do need as a coach especially you do need 00:07:09.350 --> 00:07:12.290 to support your captain you talk a lot you talk 00:07:12.290 --> 00:07:14.589 about tactics you talk about dealing with with 00:07:14.589 --> 00:07:17.430 different players but you've also got to give 00:07:17.430 --> 00:07:20.819 the captain the leeway of making his or her own 00:07:20.819 --> 00:07:22.939 decisions once they're out there in the middle. 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:25.639 And you can easily chat about it afterwards and 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:28.519 they will justify why they've made that decision. 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:30.819 It may not have been the decision that you would 00:07:30.819 --> 00:07:33.319 make, but they will say, this is a thought process 00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:35.639 that I went through and that's when I came to 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:37.600 that decision. And you've got to accept that 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:40.399 in cricket, which is why it's such a lovely game. 00:07:41.079 --> 00:07:43.480 There are situations that arise where you could 00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:45.439 make different decisions and that's what happens. 00:07:45.939 --> 00:07:48.879 We're not all robots, we're not all automatons. 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:50.740 And all you can ask is that they've actually 00:07:50.740 --> 00:07:52.879 gone through the process of thinking about it, 00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:56.339 of weighing up the pros and cons and coming to 00:07:56.339 --> 00:08:00.519 a decision. And that decision may be right. may 00:08:00.519 --> 00:08:02.639 not be your decisions, you may not agree with 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:04.879 it, but ultimately you've got to respect the 00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:07.160 process that they've gone through to reach that 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:09.160 decision. And the difficult thing as a coach 00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:11.160 when you're reviewing decisions with a captain 00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:14.060 is you never know, do you? So, okay, you've got 00:08:14.060 --> 00:08:16.420 one view as a coach, I've done something different 00:08:16.420 --> 00:08:18.740 as a captain, but it doesn't mean that your view, 00:08:18.939 --> 00:08:21.480 if your decision as a coach had been taken, it 00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:22.939 would have worked out any better. You'll never 00:08:22.939 --> 00:08:25.259 know. Absolutely, no, no, you can't go back and 00:08:25.259 --> 00:08:28.139 rewind, can you, and take two. So no, no, you're 00:08:28.139 --> 00:08:30.350 absolutely right. And as I said, before all you 00:08:30.350 --> 00:08:34.250 all you can ask is if you've helped the captain 00:08:34.250 --> 00:08:37.570 in a way and give them some sort of process to 00:08:37.570 --> 00:08:40.029 go through thinking about what they're doing 00:08:40.029 --> 00:08:41.769 and why they've come to a decision that's all 00:08:41.769 --> 00:08:43.909 you can do to help and once once they've made 00:08:43.909 --> 00:08:46.730 that decision you've got to support that decision 00:08:46.730 --> 00:08:48.950 as the players have to as well following the 00:08:48.950 --> 00:08:51.309 captain out there in the middle that's all you 00:08:51.309 --> 00:08:53.690 can ask or and or it takes energy doesn't it 00:08:53.690 --> 00:08:56.509 as a coach to and time and you've got to build 00:08:56.509 --> 00:08:59.179 that in You think about your fielding drills, 00:08:59.259 --> 00:09:01.100 don't you? You think about your warm -ups, and 00:09:01.100 --> 00:09:03.100 you think about your selections, and you think 00:09:03.100 --> 00:09:05.139 about your batting order, and then you do all 00:09:05.139 --> 00:09:06.919 your technical work in the winter. And then, 00:09:07.019 --> 00:09:09.080 oh, crikey, it's the morning of the first game, 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:10.539 I haven't really spoken to the captain. Well, 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:13.279 it's easy to miss, isn't it? Yeah, no, no, absolutely. 00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:16.340 And initially when I started coaching, there 00:09:16.340 --> 00:09:19.139 was not a lot of thought, there was not a lot 00:09:19.139 --> 00:09:22.139 of action devoted to developing the captain. 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:26.409 It really didn't. When England Under 19 started 00:09:26.409 --> 00:09:31.190 playing in an ICC World Cup every two years and 00:09:31.190 --> 00:09:32.929 you appointed a different captain effectively 00:09:32.929 --> 00:09:36.370 every two years, you had to put some time aside 00:09:36.370 --> 00:09:39.149 to develop that captain. Not just for stuff on 00:09:39.149 --> 00:09:40.830 the field, because there were also responsibilities 00:09:40.830 --> 00:09:43.370 off the field as well. So you had to prepare 00:09:43.370 --> 00:09:45.669 the captain that way. And that's when myself, 00:09:45.889 --> 00:09:47.929 other people in similar positions started giving 00:09:47.929 --> 00:09:50.169 thought to, right, how are we going to help the 00:09:50.169 --> 00:09:52.740 captain? How are we going to... give them the 00:09:52.740 --> 00:09:55.559 tools, yeah, to operate under a little bit of 00:09:55.559 --> 00:09:57.779 pressure. You know, some games were televised. 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:01.679 People saw the England Under 19s in the recent 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:04.720 World Cup were playing in a final against India 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:07.700 under -19s as it was. And you've got to try and 00:10:07.700 --> 00:10:10.639 help prepare that player. And you can do stuff 00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:12.659 during the winter. You genuinely can do stuff 00:10:12.659 --> 00:10:14.519 that will help them. Yeah, and it's interesting 00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:16.940 you talk about identifying the captain and working 00:10:16.940 --> 00:10:20.100 with them. could easily I think I remember reading 00:10:20.100 --> 00:10:21.740 something about Alistair Cook going all the way 00:10:21.740 --> 00:10:24.860 through playing obviously very high level cricket 00:10:24.860 --> 00:10:27.879 often playing years above as he was in the pathway 00:10:27.879 --> 00:10:31.940 and then probably jumped from county second team 00:10:31.940 --> 00:10:34.279 to county first team extremely quickly at Essex 00:10:34.279 --> 00:10:35.820 I'm imagining and then before he knew it he was 00:10:35.820 --> 00:10:38.100 whisked off to the international scene and actually 00:10:38.100 --> 00:10:40.179 because you're always playing up there's somebody 00:10:40.179 --> 00:10:42.740 else captaining and you can get to suddenly be 00:10:42.740 --> 00:10:45.700 appointed as England captain having not really 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:49.360 done the job very much previously. Is that something 00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:51.980 that happens? It does happen. Alistair captained 00:10:51.980 --> 00:10:55.320 England Under 19s. He was brought in as captain 00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:58.779 to replace somebody else who we demoted for various 00:10:58.779 --> 00:11:02.080 reasons. And he was absolutely brilliant. And 00:11:02.080 --> 00:11:03.860 when I talked before about Clive Lloyd being 00:11:03.860 --> 00:11:06.899 a role model, Alistair was exactly that. We went 00:11:06.899 --> 00:11:10.480 to Malaysia pre -Christmas to go to Bangladesh 00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:13.559 post -Christmas for the World Cup. And we went 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:16.870 on a practice tour because... World Cups tend 00:11:16.870 --> 00:11:19.509 to be out of season for England, as you can imagine, 00:11:19.549 --> 00:11:21.750 with the only, apart from American Canada coming 00:11:21.750 --> 00:11:23.830 in, with the only Northern Hemisphere cricket 00:11:23.830 --> 00:11:26.870 -playing countries. And he would do something 00:11:26.870 --> 00:11:30.429 at the end of every day's practice that he felt 00:11:30.429 --> 00:11:33.350 he needed to. So, for example, he would do some 00:11:33.350 --> 00:11:35.370 sprints on his own. He would find a place, he 00:11:35.370 --> 00:11:37.049 would do some sprints, running between the wickets. 00:11:37.470 --> 00:11:39.789 He would ask somebody to throw deliveries at 00:11:39.789 --> 00:11:42.539 him that were... chest high full tosses so he 00:11:42.539 --> 00:11:45.440 could play that shot but he found something he 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:48.220 did something every day that he felt would improve 00:11:48.220 --> 00:11:51.019 his game as a player and what happened was by 00:11:51.019 --> 00:11:53.669 the end of that tour other players were following 00:11:53.669 --> 00:11:55.950 his example and doing exactly the same they were 00:11:55.950 --> 00:11:58.250 joining him running around the field another 00:11:58.250 --> 00:12:00.389 five times before they finished for the day it 00:12:00.389 --> 00:12:03.309 was probably one of the best decisions that that 00:12:03.309 --> 00:12:06.190 we've made involved with England under 19s to 00:12:06.190 --> 00:12:09.210 make him captain of that side and we were i was 00:12:09.210 --> 00:12:11.210 going to say we were unlucky we lost the westerners 00:12:11.210 --> 00:12:13.889 in the semi -final through no fault of his we 00:12:13.889 --> 00:12:15.649 could have and should have won really and probably 00:12:15.649 --> 00:12:18.230 gone on to the final but he was a really good 00:12:18.230 --> 00:12:22.879 example of somebody who as it happened, belatedly 00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:25.159 was appointed captain of the team. Yeah, and 00:12:25.159 --> 00:12:28.019 then that must have been a vital experience for 00:12:28.019 --> 00:12:29.379 him because I'm guessing that would have been 00:12:29.379 --> 00:12:31.840 pretty much the only captaincy experience he 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:34.639 had when they called him in to do the full England 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:36.580 game. Yeah, no, I'm guessing so. As you quite 00:12:36.580 --> 00:12:38.940 rightly point out, he shifted fairly quickly 00:12:38.940 --> 00:12:41.039 through the gears. Well, what does he do? You 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:42.340 know, you have to, don't you, to get to that 00:12:42.340 --> 00:12:44.299 level. Absolutely, and if you've got that special 00:12:44.299 --> 00:12:46.940 talent as well and you keep proving yourself 00:12:46.940 --> 00:12:49.590 at the next level, you will go through. Essex 00:12:49.590 --> 00:12:51.970 under -19s, Essex second team, Essex first team, 00:12:52.009 --> 00:12:53.909 and then into the England setup. So what I'm 00:12:53.909 --> 00:12:56.750 getting at is, should we be, as well as our indoor 00:12:56.750 --> 00:13:00.009 sessions, hitting front -foot drives, tennis 00:13:00.009 --> 00:13:03.070 balls, and talking to bowlers about their actions 00:13:03.070 --> 00:13:04.830 and their options in a white -ball game and all 00:13:04.830 --> 00:13:06.850 this sort of stuff, should we be actually putting 00:13:06.850 --> 00:13:10.169 on captaincy sessions for not just the captain, 00:13:10.250 --> 00:13:14.129 but maybe five, six, seven? who show any sort 00:13:14.129 --> 00:13:15.750 of inclination and interest because it might 00:13:15.750 --> 00:13:18.450 be them that ends up having to do the job no 00:13:18.450 --> 00:13:20.710 no absolutely great idea and i would suggest 00:13:20.710 --> 00:13:23.350 at the younger ages that's absolutely brilliant 00:13:23.350 --> 00:13:26.190 so i'll say up to under 15s if you have four 00:13:26.190 --> 00:13:28.649 or five six players you who you think could potentially 00:13:28.649 --> 00:13:32.620 be captains we developed a system where We appointed 00:13:32.620 --> 00:13:35.679 co -captains for the day and gave people that 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:38.759 responsibility. You used fielding drills as an 00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:41.240 example before, and that's what they would do. 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:43.179 They would be responsible for the fielding drills, 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:45.399 make sure they were run properly, make sure the 00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:47.340 equipment was set out properly, make sure the 00:13:47.340 --> 00:13:49.440 equipment was put away. And you got a picture, 00:13:49.539 --> 00:13:51.799 you got an idea of how people take on responsibility. 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:54.860 So the co -captains was a great idea, and you 00:13:54.860 --> 00:13:58.820 appoint different people on a daily basis. And 00:13:58.820 --> 00:14:01.259 we also developed, and this came from... Duncan 00:14:01.259 --> 00:14:03.440 Fletcher, he pointed what was called, he called 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:05.799 it the leadership group, which was the buffer 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:08.639 between the players and management, coaching 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:12.620 staff and that. And again, you saw people who 00:14:12.620 --> 00:14:15.259 took on the responsibility of representing the 00:14:15.259 --> 00:14:17.700 other players when talking to, when reporting 00:14:17.700 --> 00:14:19.879 back to management staff. And if you're on a 00:14:19.879 --> 00:14:22.620 tour, then the under -19s would go on five, six 00:14:22.620 --> 00:14:25.940 weeks tours. That is absolutely crucial. You 00:14:25.940 --> 00:14:28.220 know, you would meet every three or four days. 00:14:28.500 --> 00:14:30.399 And if there were any concerns that had been 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:32.519 reported to the leadership group, that got back 00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:35.000 to the management group. So that was really good. 00:14:35.019 --> 00:14:37.100 And again, you know, it gave you an idea of people 00:14:37.100 --> 00:14:39.360 who took on responsibility, who enjoyed that 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:41.820 responsibility, and that would contribute to 00:14:41.820 --> 00:14:44.340 potentially who could become captain. Yeah, which 00:14:44.340 --> 00:14:46.019 is a great way for them to dip their toe in the 00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:47.899 water, isn't it? Get a little bit of a feel for 00:14:47.899 --> 00:14:49.820 leadership. And it's such a tough job, isn't 00:14:49.820 --> 00:14:51.850 it? Because we've already talked about... the 00:14:51.850 --> 00:14:54.409 personality side of it, but then the tactical 00:14:54.409 --> 00:14:57.169 understanding and to marry those two, you get 00:14:57.169 --> 00:14:59.710 the natural leaders and social personalities, 00:14:59.929 --> 00:15:02.690 don't you? But the chance of a 14 -year -old 00:15:02.690 --> 00:15:06.450 having that and having any sort of tactical nous, 00:15:06.730 --> 00:15:08.870 it's really tough, isn't it, with youngsters? 00:15:08.990 --> 00:15:11.590 And also then you talked about the leeway, giving 00:15:11.590 --> 00:15:14.710 players a leeway, but as a coach, the temptation 00:15:14.710 --> 00:15:19.009 to try and... make interventions and direct from 00:15:19.009 --> 00:15:21.149 the sidelines and become a football manager. 00:15:21.990 --> 00:15:25.070 It's just overwhelming, isn't it? Or a parent. 00:15:25.789 --> 00:15:30.490 No, absolutely. With coaching, whether it's technique 00:15:30.490 --> 00:15:34.049 or tactical, they will become more aware, they 00:15:34.049 --> 00:15:36.429 will learn more quickly, the lessons will stay 00:15:36.429 --> 00:15:39.360 longer with them. if they go through that, if 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:42.759 they do it themselves. Absolutely. And come through 00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:45.799 the other end. They will have ownership of the 00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:48.240 journey and they will remember it longer. And 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:51.480 it may not be the next game. It may be when the 00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:53.840 captain in their county second team later on. 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:57.299 Oh yeah, that situation arose then. I did it 00:15:57.299 --> 00:15:59.399 this way. We talked about it and it was just 00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:01.120 like we're doing another. Absolutely brilliant. 00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:03.019 That's what experience is, isn't it? I suppose 00:16:03.019 --> 00:16:05.500 if you're directing it, you're experiencing rather 00:16:05.500 --> 00:16:07.559 than the captain. They may take those lessons 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:09.120 on board. I'm not saying they won't do it. They 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:11.159 may take those lessons on board, but they will 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:15.240 be better equipped if they experience it and 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:17.940 go through it and come out the other side. The 00:16:17.940 --> 00:16:20.200 other thing that we started doing, and you alluded 00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:22.340 to it a little bit, nets during the winter, is 00:16:22.340 --> 00:16:24.960 to have the captain at the back of a net with 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:29.600 you, watching your bowlers, albeit bowling to 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:33.309 your batters. and talking through what they see 00:16:33.309 --> 00:16:35.250 at the other end the strengths and weaknesses 00:16:35.250 --> 00:16:39.269 of the batter where you would as a captain suggest 00:16:39.269 --> 00:16:42.590 your bowlers to bowl or not to bowl you also 00:16:42.590 --> 00:16:45.250 have opportunity to talk to your bowlers as to 00:16:45.250 --> 00:16:47.899 for this batter what field would you set Where 00:16:47.899 --> 00:16:49.440 would you have your extra fielder? You always 00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:51.639 have an extra fielder that you've got to, between 00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:53.399 you, you've got to make a decision about. Where 00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:55.580 would you have your extra fielder? What line 00:16:55.580 --> 00:16:58.100 and length would you bowl to this batter? And 00:16:58.100 --> 00:17:00.659 you also then start to get a feeling and understanding 00:17:00.659 --> 00:17:04.339 of what your bowlers are trying to do. In a non 00:17:04.339 --> 00:17:07.259 -pressure situation, in a fairly relaxed situation, 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:10.539 and with you asking them questions, it makes 00:17:10.539 --> 00:17:12.559 it easier then when you do translate it to a 00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:14.880 game situation. If you're at mid -off... and 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:17.420 you go again through the same process, you've 00:17:17.420 --> 00:17:19.079 done it, you know, you've rehearsed it, you've 00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:21.339 practised it, you've been through it. I found 00:17:21.339 --> 00:17:24.180 that really useful. You don't interfere too much 00:17:24.180 --> 00:17:26.980 in that scenario, you just let the captain do 00:17:26.980 --> 00:17:30.000 it, and then if he wants to, if she wants to, 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:32.720 just to come back to you and say, yeah, they 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:35.019 said this, he's trying to do that. I said, oh, 00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:37.460 brilliant, that's really good. Bit of a review 00:17:37.460 --> 00:17:39.380 at the end, go through the factors, see whether 00:17:39.380 --> 00:17:41.680 they've considered everything. And it's such 00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:44.299 a difficult job now, and I don't, I'm not, in 00:17:44.299 --> 00:17:46.839 any way suggesting it was a stroll in the park 00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:48.900 in the 80s when you were playing lots of three 00:17:48.900 --> 00:17:51.380 -day county games and a Sunday League 40 -over 00:17:51.380 --> 00:17:53.339 game. But I don't know, it just strikes me it 00:17:53.339 --> 00:17:55.480 was perhaps a bit more formulaic in those days 00:17:55.480 --> 00:17:59.160 and you could make a bit of a statement by doing 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:02.099 something different more easily than now. There's 00:18:02.099 --> 00:18:04.880 so much cricket played, different formats, that 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:09.079 actually being different and standout is quite... 00:18:09.259 --> 00:18:11.619 difficult isn't it as a captain nowadays yeah 00:18:11.619 --> 00:18:14.500 yeah and you know they talk about a lot of top 00:18:14.500 --> 00:18:17.619 teams now have different coaches for different 00:18:17.619 --> 00:18:20.000 formats of the game they have different captains 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:22.220 for different formats of the game totally understandable 00:18:22.220 --> 00:18:25.660 but I think From a young captain's point of view, 00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:28.079 and as I said before, every two years there'd 00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:30.359 be another 19s World Cup, which was a 50 -over 00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:33.500 competition. We didn't ignore other formats of 00:18:33.500 --> 00:18:35.759 the game leading up to that. When it became closer 00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:38.039 to the tournament itself, we did actually focus 00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:40.900 on 50 -over cricket, which made sense, not just 00:18:40.900 --> 00:18:42.660 from the captain's point of view, but from the 00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:44.460 team's point and the players' point of view as 00:18:44.460 --> 00:18:48.059 well. But yeah, in the 80s, we had different 00:18:48.059 --> 00:18:51.869 competitions. We had the three-day game. What 00:18:51.869 --> 00:18:53.849 was the Gillette Cup? 60 over. We had the Benson 00:18:53.849 --> 00:18:56.130 Hedges, which is 55 over. And we also had the 00:18:56.130 --> 00:18:58.490 Sunday League, which was 40 over. Albeit all 00:18:58.490 --> 00:19:01.269 red ball, all white clothing and that sort. Which 00:19:01.269 --> 00:19:02.869 was the one that you won Man of the Match at 00:19:02.869 --> 00:19:06.410 Lords? Did I? You did. Yeah, he did. Was it? 00:19:06.509 --> 00:19:10.289 Yeah. In the 1980s, Peter May. Peter May, bless 00:19:10.289 --> 00:19:12.190 him, who I thought was a really good judge of 00:19:12.190 --> 00:19:16.529 a cricketer. He was chairman of the England selectors 00:19:16.529 --> 00:19:19.799 at the time. My brothers blessed them. questioned 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:21.980 it because I don't know if you do remember, if 00:19:21.980 --> 00:19:24.579 you do look back, he kept selecting, I've nothing 00:19:24.579 --> 00:19:27.339 against this bloke, he kept selecting Derek Pringle 00:19:27.339 --> 00:19:31.779 as the new Ian Botham. And bless Derek, I mean, 00:19:31.779 --> 00:19:34.319 no, there weren't many who came up to Ian Botham's 00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:37.880 standards, to be fair. So that was the one fly 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:40.220 in the ointment as far as judgment of a cricketer 00:19:40.220 --> 00:19:43.900 was concerned. But it was, it was the Benson 00:19:43.900 --> 00:19:46.740 Hedges Final 84. Even though I played 17 years 00:19:46.740 --> 00:19:49.059 of county cricket, that's the one thing that 00:19:49.059 --> 00:19:51.500 people remember. Yeah, it's nice to remember 00:19:51.500 --> 00:19:54.339 something. Yeah, yeah, I suppose so, yeah. They 00:19:54.339 --> 00:19:55.900 could have been worse, couldn't they? A lot worse. 00:19:55.980 --> 00:19:58.079 A lot worse final. That's good. Lancashire won 00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:00.769 it, didn't they? Yeah. God, yes, I do remember 00:20:00.769 --> 00:20:02.690 you playing. You were useless, weren't you? You 00:20:02.690 --> 00:20:05.269 could have been that. So, yeah, yeah, we did. 00:20:05.450 --> 00:20:08.930 And you said before about it being formulaic, 00:20:08.930 --> 00:20:11.950 and it honestly was. You know, we identified 00:20:11.950 --> 00:20:15.450 the strengths of the team. Best example would 00:20:15.450 --> 00:20:17.930 be we were really good at chasing. We batted 00:20:17.930 --> 00:20:20.250 down to number 11. So we were really good at 00:20:20.250 --> 00:20:24.710 chasing. We were a really good containing bowling 00:20:24.710 --> 00:20:27.589 attack. So, you know, we put pressure on the 00:20:27.589 --> 00:20:30.269 opposition by restricting the runs and we felt 00:20:30.269 --> 00:20:31.890 that whatever the opposition scored, we could 00:20:31.890 --> 00:20:34.769 chase it down. But you had to win the toss? Not 00:20:34.769 --> 00:20:36.730 always, because opposition sometimes say, oh, 00:20:36.769 --> 00:20:38.690 we'll bat first, no, we'll bat first. So, oh, 00:20:38.750 --> 00:20:41.289 yeah, thanks very much. But we did have to win 00:20:41.289 --> 00:20:43.509 the toss, yeah. You're absolutely right. And 00:20:43.509 --> 00:20:46.369 on that day, I did. And Bob Willis, bless him, 00:20:46.430 --> 00:20:50.009 the opposition captain, and he tried to con this 00:20:50.009 --> 00:20:52.630 young man from Lancashire. having been captain 00:20:52.630 --> 00:20:55.529 of England and on the way out, he said, shall 00:20:55.529 --> 00:20:58.269 we toss up to see who's going to toss up? And 00:20:58.269 --> 00:21:01.329 he said, shall we do best of three? And I won 00:21:01.329 --> 00:21:05.009 everyone. So I'm sorry, Bob, you're going to 00:21:05.009 --> 00:21:07.430 have to have a bat, mate. But bless him. No, 00:21:07.569 --> 00:21:09.490 no, it was a good day. It's nice to be remembered 00:21:09.490 --> 00:21:11.109 for something fairly positive. So for people 00:21:11.109 --> 00:21:13.170 who don't know the story, basically, you got 00:21:13.170 --> 00:21:15.309 man of the match, but you hadn't really done 00:21:15.309 --> 00:21:17.349 it with the bat or the ball, but your captaincy 00:21:17.349 --> 00:21:19.759 was... Absolutely spot on, wasn't it? And that's 00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:24.440 what impressed Peter May. I'm glad you said that, 00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:26.880 really. You're right, I got a duck, caught down 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:30.359 the leg side, four deliveries. Mum was really 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:32.299 upset in the crowd, bless her, she came down 00:21:32.299 --> 00:21:34.799 to watch the final. Didn't bowl, didn't bowl 00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:37.759 at that stage, took a very, very simple catch. 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:40.539 And people will go through this. If you're a 00:21:40.539 --> 00:21:43.140 captain, you'll go through this. Every little 00:21:43.140 --> 00:21:46.299 decision that you make came off. Do you know 00:21:46.299 --> 00:21:49.259 what I mean? Bowling change you make, the bowler 00:21:49.259 --> 00:21:51.380 takes a wicket. You move a fielder. A couple 00:21:51.380 --> 00:21:52.900 of yards to the right and then there goes the 00:21:52.900 --> 00:21:55.240 catch. Absolutely, yeah. They either stop and 00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:58.319 save four or they get a catch. And I look back 00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:00.859 and it was difficult at the time because everything's 00:22:00.859 --> 00:22:03.619 happening around you. You can't take it all in. 00:22:03.640 --> 00:22:06.339 So I've watched the highlights on a daily basis. 00:22:06.539 --> 00:22:09.920 No, not daily basis. I watched the highlights 00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:13.039 a few times after that. And it was good. It was 00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:16.920 intense, honestly. There are pictures of how, 00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:20.140 you know, frowns on my face, which was... It 00:22:20.140 --> 00:22:22.539 was just so deep in thought. Absolutely. Mind 00:22:22.539 --> 00:22:24.859 in overdrive. I know, yeah, very, very. And you 00:22:24.859 --> 00:22:26.779 don't realise. It's like an exam, I suppose. 00:22:26.900 --> 00:22:28.480 I mean, you must come off the pitch exhausted 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:31.259 just from decision -making. Yeah. So that's probably 00:22:31.259 --> 00:22:33.099 why I got naughty. Thanks for that, mate. So, 00:22:33.099 --> 00:22:36.880 yeah. So, yeah. But anyway, yeah, it was just 00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:39.039 one of those days where things went right. And 00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:42.210 Peter May, bless him. If you recognise that or 00:22:42.210 --> 00:22:45.190 not, I don't know, but he nominated me as player 00:22:45.190 --> 00:22:48.450 of the match. At that time, the PA system at 00:22:48.450 --> 00:22:51.730 Lord's just went out onto the ground. So you 00:22:51.730 --> 00:22:54.029 did it on the second floor balcony or whatever, 00:22:54.210 --> 00:22:57.710 where you got the trophy. And he was giving his 00:22:57.710 --> 00:23:00.569 speech and you couldn't hear properly because 00:23:00.569 --> 00:23:02.490 there was a lot of noise, a lot of drunken Lancastrians 00:23:02.490 --> 00:23:04.890 there celebrating the victory and you couldn't 00:23:04.890 --> 00:23:07.710 hear. And so I nominate as man of the match. 00:23:07.930 --> 00:23:10.730 People sort of looking round, who is it? And 00:23:10.730 --> 00:23:12.950 Steve O'Shaughnessy, bless him, pushed me forward. 00:23:13.029 --> 00:23:15.349 And I nearly whacked him. I thought, what are 00:23:15.349 --> 00:23:17.849 you doing pushing me forward? And he'd heard 00:23:17.849 --> 00:23:20.529 that Peter May had nominated me as Man of the 00:23:20.529 --> 00:23:22.490 Match for my leadership qualities. So, yeah, 00:23:22.549 --> 00:23:24.430 which was... I'll tell you what, I've not given 00:23:24.430 --> 00:23:26.710 the medal back, mate. I've still got it. Hang 00:23:26.710 --> 00:23:28.789 on to that. It's fantastic. It's still in the 00:23:28.789 --> 00:23:30.470 display cabinet. I don't know if it would happen 00:23:30.470 --> 00:23:32.390 nowadays, but it's just brilliant. I love that. 00:23:32.529 --> 00:23:35.900 And actually, in all seriousness... The transition 00:23:35.900 --> 00:23:38.259 from being a captain to being a coach is perhaps 00:23:38.259 --> 00:23:39.960 quite a natural one, isn't it? Because you're 00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:42.380 a bit more exposed to everything else that's 00:23:42.380 --> 00:23:46.480 going on. So I'm sure you know lots of very good 00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:49.279 captains who have become really excellent coaches. 00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:52.339 Probably an over -representation of that, isn't 00:23:52.339 --> 00:23:54.380 it? As opposed to other elements of the game. 00:23:54.740 --> 00:23:56.380 Yeah, it's quite obvious. But as a captain, you 00:23:56.380 --> 00:23:58.599 have to consider at least 10 other people, possibly 00:23:58.599 --> 00:24:00.799 four or five other people who are not. who are 00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:02.740 not in the team, who've not been selected. You've 00:24:02.740 --> 00:24:04.920 got to consider how they are as people. You've 00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:07.299 got to consider how they are as cricketers, how 00:24:07.299 --> 00:24:09.640 they're going to fit into the team that you feel 00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:11.819 is going to be successful. And then, as you quite 00:24:11.819 --> 00:24:13.539 rightly point out, when you're going to be a 00:24:13.539 --> 00:24:16.200 coach, that's exactly what you have to do. You're 00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:17.819 on the way with the skin, aren't you? And actually, 00:24:17.859 --> 00:24:20.579 as a sports person, one of the things I see, 00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:22.740 and I cover, obviously, going to football and 00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:25.460 horse racing and rowing. Quite a bit of cricket 00:24:25.460 --> 00:24:29.200 as well. And one thing that the really top sports 00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:31.759 performers have, they have to have an element 00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:35.160 of real selfishness. I mean, just totally, compared 00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:37.099 to the average human being, I would say they 00:24:37.099 --> 00:24:39.220 spend a lot of, a high percentage of time thinking 00:24:39.220 --> 00:24:41.839 about themselves and their own game. And that's 00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:43.940 almost the reverse of what you want from a coach, 00:24:44.019 --> 00:24:45.559 isn't it? You've got to spend your whole life 00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:47.660 thinking about other people's performance. And 00:24:47.660 --> 00:24:49.799 the captain, you're sort of in a step in that 00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:52.700 direction. The strange thing about cricket, it's 00:24:52.700 --> 00:24:55.460 still an individual sport within a team context. 00:24:55.859 --> 00:24:58.339 So you're absolutely right. There are still some 00:24:58.339 --> 00:25:03.119 people who are totally selfish, basically. Brilliant 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:05.779 for it. Yeah, absolutely. And batters probably 00:25:05.779 --> 00:25:08.380 more so. If they do well for themselves, they 00:25:08.380 --> 00:25:11.839 do well for the team. Unless they score 30 off 00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:13.859 100 deliveries when the team want to score a 00:25:13.859 --> 00:25:17.259 run-a-ball then. You'll see me back. And me, 00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:20.099 you and me both. But no, you do. You do have 00:25:20.099 --> 00:25:24.299 to. Going back to Peter May, and Paul Allott 00:25:24.299 --> 00:25:26.420 played for England during that period, and as 00:25:26.420 --> 00:25:28.980 I said, he was chairman of selectors. Paul came 00:25:28.980 --> 00:25:31.740 back and said, one of the things that he did... 00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:35.619 was he recognized at least one positive thing 00:25:35.619 --> 00:25:37.440 that you did on that cricket field contributing 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:40.279 to your team and he came and talked to you about 00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:44.019 that one thing which obviously as a player made 00:25:44.019 --> 00:25:47.339 you feel absolutely brilliant yeah so you know 00:25:47.339 --> 00:25:49.480 if you're talking about the little small psychological 00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:52.319 advantages that you can implement yeah he did 00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:54.559 that and i tried and i tried to do that and the 00:25:54.559 --> 00:25:56.920 other thing i tried to do a captain and as coach 00:25:57.740 --> 00:26:00.319 was to put myself in that player's position. 00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:03.599 What does he genuinely want from this? He just 00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:05.640 wants to be a part of this team. He wants to 00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:07.319 be a part of this team. He enjoys being a part 00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:10.700 of this team. He wants to be the kingpin in this 00:26:10.700 --> 00:26:13.180 team. He wants to be the batter that scores most 00:26:13.180 --> 00:26:16.039 runs in this team. So you recognise that and 00:26:16.039 --> 00:26:18.460 you try and accommodate that without being to 00:26:18.460 --> 00:26:20.279 the detriment of the other members of the team. 00:26:20.990 --> 00:26:22.769 That's the sort of thing that you look at. People 00:26:22.769 --> 00:26:24.950 may know his name. Coaches definitely know his 00:26:24.950 --> 00:26:27.349 name. It's Adi Birrell. I was lucky enough to 00:26:27.349 --> 00:26:29.910 work with Adi for a couple of seasons. Down 00:26:29.910 --> 00:26:31.809 at Hampshire until last year. Yeah, until last 00:26:31.809 --> 00:26:34.390 year, yeah. South African, successful coach with 00:26:34.390 --> 00:26:37.230 Ireland. Absolutely brilliant in the World Cup 00:26:37.230 --> 00:26:39.390 that they played in the West Indies. But he was 00:26:39.390 --> 00:26:42.509 very similar. He always looked for the positives 00:26:42.509 --> 00:26:44.509 and he always looked for something that somebody 00:26:44.509 --> 00:26:47.470 had done well. Unlike, and I've just mentioned 00:26:47.470 --> 00:26:50.980 this to coaches as a cautionary note, Don't look 00:26:50.980 --> 00:26:54.640 for the negatives so you can justify your position, 00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:57.740 your existence. Do look for the positives. And 00:26:57.740 --> 00:27:00.619 if it can help with the negatives, then absolutely 00:27:00.619 --> 00:27:03.779 brilliant. But don't just look for the negatives 00:27:03.779 --> 00:27:07.140 just to justify your position as a coach. Yeah, 00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:09.059 that's a great key message to finish with. Adam 00:27:09.059 --> 00:27:10.619 Holliday did something very similar. I remember 00:27:10.619 --> 00:27:12.880 when I talked to him about the Surrey set -up 00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:14.740 and the captain, he was always on the lookout 00:27:14.740 --> 00:27:17.279 to not necessarily praise the guy who's taken 00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:19.980 five-for, but... Get into the ear of the guy who's 00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:21.500 run up the hill against the wind at the other 00:27:21.500 --> 00:27:24.839 end and got nothing but has been crucial to it. 00:27:25.220 --> 00:27:27.500 What did he get given by the Hampshire players 00:27:27.500 --> 00:27:29.299 when he left it? Was it an ox? Because he's a 00:27:29.299 --> 00:27:31.579 farmer down in South Africa, isn't he? And he 00:27:31.579 --> 00:27:34.759 was given some quite serious bit of wildlife 00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:37.619 for his farm when he retired from Hampshire. 00:27:37.779 --> 00:27:41.339 No, he has a wildlife reserve. Absolutely, yes. 00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:44.720 So you can go and see. Lions, tigers, giraffes 00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:47.099 and that. It might have been something more exciting 00:27:47.099 --> 00:27:49.720 than an ox, but I was amazed the Hampshire players 00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:52.019 had clubbed together. Maybe they were wildebeest 00:27:52.019 --> 00:27:56.279 or something. If they did, he would have loved 00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:58.039 that. That would have been absolutely brilliant 00:27:58.039 --> 00:28:01.299 and just right for him. But he enjoyed his time 00:28:01.299 --> 00:28:04.440 at Hampshire. And if the Hampshire players... 00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:07.319 Gave him that. There's nothing more appropriate 00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:10.480 for him. Yeah, well, rather random way to finish. 00:28:10.660 --> 00:28:13.000 But it's been great to catch up. These messages 00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:15.079 are so relevant still, aren't they? So, you know, 00:28:15.099 --> 00:28:17.559 we were talking about cricket in the 80s and 00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:22.819 90s a bit. 1980s and 90s, all right. But they 00:28:22.819 --> 00:28:25.740 are still absolutely nailed on necessities, aren't 00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:27.660 they? Non -negotiables for what goes on now. 00:28:27.819 --> 00:28:29.980 So it's been great. Thanks, AB, for sharing your 00:28:29.980 --> 00:28:32.900 time and really good to catch up. Tim, listen, 00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:35.549 mate, it was a call. out the blue to come and 00:28:35.549 --> 00:28:38.569 come and do this i'm so glad that you did i know 00:28:38.569 --> 00:28:41.589 it's your third series i know you've had 42 other 00:28:41.589 --> 00:28:45.690 people before me at least that's not true 41 00:28:45.690 --> 00:28:48.829 then sorry but i do i do appreciate the fact 00:28:48.829 --> 00:28:50.950 that that you thought that i could contribute 00:28:50.950 --> 00:28:52.769 in some way and it's been really enjoyable you 00:28:52.769 --> 00:28:55.009 know it's always just having a conversation about 00:28:55.009 --> 00:28:57.910 cricket with somebody who cares as much about 00:28:57.910 --> 00:29:00.250 the game as I do. So, yeah, it's been good, mate. 00:29:00.609 --> 00:29:03.009 Great to hear from John Abrahams. That's it for 00:29:03.009 --> 00:29:05.650 this episode of The icoachcricket Podcast. Thanks 00:29:05.650 --> 00:29:06.269 for listening.