Not many coaches spend their time working in
Brazil, Rwanda and Nepal, but that's what Sarah
Begg does. Sarah was a community coach at Middlesex
but recently spent her time working for Coaching
Without Boundaries around the world. Recently,
she's been studying the impact cricket can have
on lives and communities in far-flung places
as part of her PhD. She's been telling Tim Dellor
what Cricket Changemakers is all about. It's
actually my PhD research ultimately, but it was
in Nepal and it's working with adolescent girls
and young women to basically reflect on how do
they want to change their... communities through
cricket so we actually started off from a place
of not assuming anything about how those girls
wanted to use cricket so it comes from before
that really, my involvement with cricket without
boundaries which historically used cricket for
HIV/AIDS education and awareness but has been
moving towards lots of different topics according
to the community needs and this is like right
so how do we really start from the bottom and
build up from there so we had about 10 teenage
girls in two different districts in Nepal and
we went, right, what are the challenges that
young girls in your community face? tell us about
them and we use games to facilitate that conversation
and the big thing that they were talking about
really was what we would call restrictive gender
norms which sounds quite grand but actually it's
just I guess the stereotypes and discrimination
that girls face day to day that limit their opportunities
to do things and it's stuff like the expectation
that girls are staying at home and doing the
cooking and cleaning rather than being allowed
to go out. go to a after-school cricket session
for example and their ultimate goal that they
described from that was like we want girls to
play cricket and the thing we need to change
for that to happen is to change these restrictive
gender norms and so they and I went out and spoke
to lots of other teenagers tried to describe
those in more detail and understand where do
they come from and then they designed these different
activities to try and address it and really it
was thinking this isn't just about changing individuals
because you can't change a community level belief
by just saying to a teenage girl oh you need
to be more empowered because they're operating
in this whole system where people are saying
cricket isn't for you the idea was that we would
do stuff that targets the girls themselves and
builds their confidence and their understanding
of gender norms and stereotypes and discrimination
where they come from and their rights but then
also work with teenage boys in their community
coaches in their community teachers in their
community engage with parents try and make cricket
more visible in public spaces so the wider community
became more accepting of girls moving around
in public space you know even walking to the
ground was a bone of contention in some of the
more rural areas that these girls were living
in yeah we worked on that together they implemented
those activities over about nine months really
and then evaluated and saw what had changed and
there was huge uptake in the amount of cricket
that girls were playing in the area but then
it was also about changes in perceptions of the
wider community Boys were no longer really teasing
girls at the ground and becoming much more supportive
and giving advice to the girls from their school
how to win tournaments and things like that.
So it was a big piece of work that was really,
from the bottom up, led by girls about how they
could make cricket a sport for them in a place
where it had been limited up to that point now
ahead of our conversation I hadn't read the whole
PhD not your whole thesis yeah but I did read
a summary and what struck me whilst I was reading
that was if you keep cricket in perspective or
actually let's broaden it sport in perspective
it's sort of what sports meant to do isn't it
and it's yes it's entirely appropriate in Nepal
with women and girls and I completely get that
yeah but actually you could really zone in on
any community couldn't you it's the purpose of
sport really is not to be Ben Stokes. It's to
have your character enhanced and your position
in society, made more meaningful. Yes, exactly.
And so it struck me that it was potentially quite
a broad piece of work rather than just specifically
women and girls. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's
the key is like, it's about how can we really
make sport meaningful in a way that it's not
about the results. And if you think about even
the history of sport in this country, organised
sport, It's a lot about community building and
people moving. If you talk about cricket in the
area that I now live up in Yorkshire, you're
moving from village to village to go and play
cricket because they're nearby to you. You've
got a newly new thing that is called the weekend,
but it's not necessarily about winning the Huddersfield
Cricket League because that's not a thing at
that time. It's like, how do you build connection
and community and empower people, I guess, to
grow and... build something meaningful in their
lives so I completely agree I think it's not
just about the the Nepali girls provide a life,
shine a light on the opportunity I suppose yeah
exactly it's a great case study isn't it and
Nepal actually on this very day that we sit here
we had a bit of a fright in the T20 World Cup
so you maybe uh well either you'll be very welcome
back or maybe not so welcome back next time I
felt a bit of split loyalty there really when
I was Running a coach education piece today up
in Coventry and like refreshing Cricinfo and
trying to get the results. When you say Split loyalty,
be honest, you were probably thinking come on
Nepal, weren't you? I think, yeah, in that
last over and it's the opportunity to... finish
it in a single blow on the last ball. I was like,
if this goes over... For the whole nation, it
would have been an extraordinary moment. An extraordinary
moment. And if you look at what's happening in
cricket in Nepal at the minute, for example,
they beat the West Indies for the first time
a few months ago. It's a country that's going
through a bit of a weird political transition
at the moment as well. And so the opportunity
for cricket to unite a community and a country
is hugely relevant in places like Nepal. It's
a women's team keeping up do you think is
that playing their part because there's a danger
that yes we've talked about the men's team in
the t20 world cup yeah you've got to have a strong
women's team nowadays to be considered a proper
cricket nation yeah and I think that is still
an interesting one in that There's definitely
movement in a positive direction in Nepal, but
for example, during the period of the PhD research
that I did, the Nepal women almost went a whole
year without playing a single international fixture.
And so there is still a gap in investment and
in recognition of the importance and value of
women's cricket. What that means to be a Nepali
as well, generating pride in the country is a
huge thing that cricket can offer, which was
again a key part of the work that... we did was
like actually parents feeling proud for your
daughter is a reason to get them to be involved
in cricket well scale that to a national level
if you can get people to be proud of the women
who are playing cricket then maybe they might
let their girls play as well Things aren't perfect
here, by any means, when it comes to women and
girls. I mean, we're really good, obviously,
and it's a whole lot better than when you and
I first met, or ten years ago. It's boomed, hasn't
it? It's gone in the right direction, but I wouldn't
say it's perfect yet. So, spending time in Nepal,
did it make you grateful that we've at least
progressed things as far as we have? And when
I say about things not being perfect, when I
was ordering your diet coke just now, and paying
for it by the way, we talked about still relatively,
there's a bit of a dearth of women's coaches,
for instance, in the game. It's funny because
it felt in some ways like I was joining myself,
not quite to the extremes of the limitations
that girls there face, but it was like stepping
back in time to that context where there was
so little women and girls cricket around. Yeah,
it also meant that when I came home, I'd do six
months away and then come back for six months
for the summer. And I was surrounded by loads
of women's softball cricket in the area that
I'm living in now, which has gone from four teams
three years ago to 36 teams this coming year.
I mean, presumably they're numbers that Nepal
can only dream of. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So
those are numbers that you're not going to get
to overnight. I mean, this is over the course
of 10 years. And like you say, like the growth
is... has been substantial but it has been over
a period of time but it also meant that I was
able to relate to the experience that these girls
were going through like being the only girls
who were in the ground because that's where i
started you know turned up at finchley cricket
club had a great time was really welcomed but
it was me my sister and 60 boys I think there's
a big solidarity piece actually in women and
girls cricket which is really nice is that we've
all been on that journey and it's still a very
live journey of like creating space for ourselves
in the game and so it means that when you meet
people who are maybe a little earlier on in that
journey there's a bit of like solidarity and
how can I help you and how can I share my experiences
to help you yeah make progress and I think you're
right the coach head is the last bit of the puzzle
and to an extent I think that's a that's like
a time lag piece if we want people to have the
opportunity to get into the game and to play
the game and to learn about the game it's going
to then take a while for coaches to fall out
the end of that. So maybe in 10 years' time,
if we sit down together at some point, we won't
be reflecting on, or we've still got a quarter
of our advanced coaches are women at the minute.
Maybe we might get to the point where it's closer
to 30 or 40%. So I think there's a degree of
patience, but we can't take the foot off the
pedal. We've got to keep pushing forward to allow
that full realisation of... the gender equality
i guess in the game to happen which is the playing
and then the coaching and then there's like the
governance piece as well which often people come
into right at the end of their sort of time in
cricket and so how do we make sure that that
gender pathway continues all the way through
yeah actually and you talk about the governance
and actually in the little bit of reading I did
you talked about setting up programs not for
the girls, but with the girls, them creating
the programmes for themselves, which struck as
good common sense, really, because quite a lot
of these programmes are drawn up by people who
aren't living what you're aiming for. Yeah, it's
not super complicated to get youth voice into
things, as long as you assume and believe that
young people have... their own minds are experts
in their own experiences they are the people
who are living it so they know the most about
it and you're asking the right questions and
you ask the right questions in the right way
yeah exactly and are willing to listen and maybe
have your assumptions challenged but to do that
doesn't really take that much We don't need fancy
systems or structures to do it. You just need
to invite people into the party. It can be a
bit unnerving and you lose control, don't you?
And so all of us coaches, let's be honest, we
like having things well organised. Yeah, and
a plan. And how we think it should be done, don't
we? So that throws that all out the window. It
really does. And it's funny because we had just
had that experience at my cricket club. last
week in that we've just had a new set of captains
elected up to now we had a softball captain and
a hardball captain which was fine but we've now
got two softball teams two hardball teams I needed
captains I needed vice captains so we had a put
yourself forward get voted in kind of process
and one of the vice captains of our hardball
second team is 15 years old 16 years old and
the vice captain of our softball second team
is 13 so we've got a group there now who's sitting
around a table discussing plans for the season
ahead there's been a new rule introduced into
the league which is that you must wear a thigh
guard and you must wear cricket trousers so you
can't wear leggings and the 13 year old pipes
up well why why does it matter the main point
of the thigh guard is to protect you it doesn't
matter if it's in the inside on the outside and
That's like an assumption that me, having grown
up in a cricketing world where it's like, tuck
your shirt in, your thigh guard goes on the inside,
all of this stuff. It's a good sense check for
me to be like, OK, that's a really fair point.
To what extent do I put value on how we look
versus how comfortable people are? And so then
we could have a conversation about, well, which
teams are we going to apply this rule to and
which teams we... If the league says we have
to be wearing that in the top division, that's
fine. But do we need to apply that into the division
below that? Or can we say, we're happy for you
to wear whatever you want to wear, as long as
it fits in the rules of the league. And then,
should we be feeding up to the league that the
13 -year -olds are saying, we're not so keen
on the idea of wearing cricket trousers when
we're comfortable in leggings. So, yeah, it's
not hard to do, but it will... challenge your
assumptions and your beliefs maybe about the
game, which is a good thing. That particular
conversation sounds like a complete minefield.
I'm very glad I'm not going to get dragged into
that one. Just on your own coaching journey,
do you count yourself quite lucky, fortunate
to have been at Middlesex at a time where you
had, actually it's not that many, but I don't
know, half a dozen good female... Not just coaches,
but players, administrators around you. And I
think back to that time in Middlesex, it was
quite unusual, wasn't it? To have a stable of
about four, five, six of you who were pushing
things along. Exactly. And I think until I actually
went and did my Level 3... Good course that was,
wasn't it? Yeah, great course. Really, really
well organised. You're the only diet coke now,
by the way. And my coach developer training,
which was sort of at the same time. Because I'd
been in this context where we had Katie Berry
as the big boss, we had Danny around, we had
Danny Warren, yeah. Also people like Phil Knappett
and Josh Knappett who were very egalitarian in
their beliefs about the game. So we had these
male allies as well as great female role models.
I'd never actually had any belief that... cricket
wasn't maybe a place for me because i'd been
working in a system where women were there and
it was kind of normal but you were probably lucky
with that yeah you could have been somewhere
else absolutely and then you go on to these more
national courses because i've been in the middle
sex ecosystem essentially through that whole
period and then go into these other courses and
settings and the things that you hear from people
in those settings and I guess maybe like internalized
narratives that people have inevitably create
when they're facing resistance all the time in
their context I was like blimey the people that
you see around you and the systems that you're
you're born into if you if you could put it that
way because I did I was born in North London
and therefore I played cricket for Middlesex
but I could have easily have been born two boroughs
over yeah and ended up on the tracks yeah exactly
and have a different set of beliefs about who
cricket was for and who coaching was for and
who cricket governance was for. So I think you're
completely right. the right support of people
but just the normalization of it as well just
the visibility of it where's the whole gotta
see it to be it is that the expression with your
role models and having people around who you
can bounce ideas off yeah and it does sound so
trite when you say you know you can't be what
you can't see but I genuinely believe that's
a really huge thing of like visibility is is
crucial again not to bang on about nepal but
that's what's one of our key things in nepal
was You can't play girls' cricket in a closed
environment behind high walls and expect community
beliefs about who cricket's for to change because
they're not going to see it. So people have to
see stuff for the norm to change because norms
are what's normal. I'm doing air quotes for the
listener at home. It doesn't work at all in an
audio format. But if a norm is about what's normal,
then... Normal is what you see day to day. Or
don't see. Or don't see, exactly. And so you
can't be what you can't see because if you can't
see it, it's not normal. Right, you're off to
Brazil, aren't you? I am. I think I've caught
you just in time. You were in Coventry this weekend
and the next weekend you were in Brazil. There's
a change. I like to see every facet of the world.
Yeah, we're off to Brazil. So Cricket Without
Boundaries and the NCC Foundation are working
with Cricket Brazil. to do a piece of work really
around growing their community -based delivery
and helping them develop their performance pathways
as well. And so we'll be doing a bunch of coach
education and development with their development
officers. I'll be building. So we did a bit of
cricket changemakers work with their youth leaders
about six months ago. And one of the big themes
that surfaced there was around gang violence,
drugs. It's the narratives that we're used to
hearing about Brazil, unfortunately. It's the
reality of a lot of the young people who are
involved in cricket there. The conversation we've
then been having is, right, so what does cricket
for life look like in Brazil? Cricket para a
vida. Very good. I know, it sounds great. The
accent wasn't bad either. Thank you. You know,
what does positive self -identity basically mean?
And that community piece that you were talking
about earlier, it's like, it's the same thing,
just with a different focus. of how can you make
cricket a more appealing thing than a gang and
how can you develop the life skills that will
help you be a successful, engaged member of the
community through cricket rather than ending
up. on the wrong side of the tracks again. Are
you competing against a broken community or are
you competing against football? Because you think
of Brazil, you think of Pelé, you think of they've
got a great football culture and heritage there.
but not necessarily cricket. You don't think
of Brazil and cricket in the same breath, do
you? No. But do you find... Because probably,
I'm guessing, it doesn't bother you too much.
If they go off and play football, then great.
It doesn't matter, does it, if it's cricket or
football? That's not incidental. For me, it doesn't
matter. For Cricket Brazil, I'm pretty sure they
want them to play cricket. But I think there's
an interesting thing... Well, there's two interesting
things about cricket in Brazil. The first is,
when cricket isn't known... in the country, you
have a blank slate to reimagine what cricket
means. So, for example, gender equality, who's
cricket for? If you look at somewhere like Rwanda,
cricket was introduced to Rwanda post -genocide.
So that's 35 years ago now, which is, you know,
cricket's been growing for a long time in the
country, but it was introduced as a gender-neutral
sport. It's not a men's sport. It's a sport for
anybody. And as a result, their women's team
do a lot better than their men's team. I think
the same is true in Brazil. You don't have to
have a belief about what class of people cricket's
for or what gender cricket is designed for. And
you see that actually in how cricket's played
in Brazil in that it's fine to walk behind the
bowler's arm in Brazil. That's not a cultural
taboo. We'll be playing loud music in our games
in Brazil. It's a reflection of Brazilian culture.
but in the game of cricket and I think that's
really cool opportunity is that you can then
shape the sport to be whatever you want it to
be so yes I think Maybe you might be competing
against football if you're Cricket Brazil, but
you also have an amazing opportunity to build
something from scratch. The other interesting
fun fact about cricket in Brazil is that there's
a street game called taco, which involves two
sticks, somebody throwing something towards you,
one person hitting it and you switching ends
with your partner. So it's essentially... And
is this an older sport? Yeah. It's been around
before cricket? Well, I think the understanding
is that tacos originated from cricket a very
long time ago, became reimagined to tacos. But
70 -something percent of Brazilians have played
taco in their lifetime. So if you're from cricket
Brazil, you can say, well, we're going to play
taco, but these are your sticks, cricket bats,
and you're going to throw the ball with a straight
arm. That's the difficult part. And don't walk
behind the sight screen. Do what you want. We're
going to have a party. Samba. Exactly. There's
some interesting things there, which is often
there are, in lots of places, there are bat and
ball games. So you just go, well, it's the same
thing, but here's our special bat. And yeah,
keep your arms straight, which is always the
hardest thing to get your head around. It is,
isn't it? Because it's such a false movement,
the bowling action. So you have to spend hours
in playgrounds trying to get it to throw and
then bowl and get a straight arm going. So you've
mentioned Rwanda. You've mentioned Nepal,
obviously, a lot. You're off to Brazil. You're
quite global, aren't you? You're quite an international
jet set. Yeah, I'm very lucky in that respect.
I think the thing I feel privileged to be able
to do is I keep coming back to it, like build
communities across communities. So have the opportunity
to share ideas from Brazil with our colleagues
in Rwanda or Rwanda. Link it all up. Your experiences
in one country help you move on to another country.
Exactly. And share examples. So, you know, in
Nepal. part of the stuff that came out of the
cricket change makers piece was we developed
a curriculum basically of games where we were
also talking about life skills so how can you
build connection through cricket and how can
you build confidence through cricket and how
can you support people to be more caring for
others through cricket well those are all things
that are relevant to young people anywhere in
the world so we're now taking that curriculum
to every place that we go to. And then when we
were in Brazil recently, they showed us a really
cool warm -up that was based on a football warm
-up, but they'd cricketified, and then I'm taking
that to India to share with people who were doing
a bit of work in India. So that's a real privilege
and an opportunity that I get, which is to be
a little bit of a cricketing cultural bridge,
taking stuff to different parts of the world.
Very good. Is there anywhere in the world that
you've got your eye on that you think would be...
quite fun quite that intrepid to go and visit
and then take cricket too we always talk about
the democratic republic of the congo so my journey
in this sort of international cricket development
thing started in uganda and there's something
i really enjoy about the way cricket is often
played in certainly in east africa which is a
flat bit of ground and we'll get on with it There's
not that much pretension in terms of what the
facilities need to look like and things like
that, which is a bit of contrast to Nepal where,
because it's more, I guess, culturally similar
to what cricket looks like in India and places
like that. There's some nice grounds there, haven't
there? There's some lovely grounds, yeah, absolutely.
There's maybe a slightly less, let's say, fair
attitude to what constitutes a place to play
cricket. Somewhere a bit more raw. Yeah, I enjoy
that kind of, we'll make it happen. I think that
comes a little bit from, like, my first jobs
in cricket were... You know, you're going to
go to a playground in Tower Hamlets. There's
half a... Yeah, two chairs and a car park. Yeah,
exactly. Like, get on with it. And I enjoy the
puzzle and challenge of that kind of... cricket
coaching environment keeps you on your toes i
get that i'm very much the same mindset so being
resourceful yeah exactly being organized and
being creative yeah what are the opportunities
here rather than what are the limitations I really
love doing that so I think yeah DRC or maybe
heading out I split the world up into ICC regions
so east Asia pacific I don't know, Fiji or somewhere
like that. That would be a pretty cool one. PNG.
There's some really interesting work that's done
by the Australians. Whisper it quietly. In the
space of Sport for Development, I'd love to go
and do some bits over there. Well, look, happy
travelling, safe travelling. And it's been fascinating
talking to you. I should read the whole PhD,
really, rather than just the synopsis. I should
do my research properly in the future. But look,
good luck with the work. It's a really interesting
area. Thank you very much for talking to us.
Thanks for having me. Really enjoyed it. Good
luck to Sarah Begg on her work out in Brazil.
A really interesting look at grassroots cricket
and the positive impact the game can have in
locations around the world. Thanks for listening.