WEBVTT 00:00:03.569 --> 00:00:06.330 Hello, you're listening to The icoachcricket Podcast 00:00:06.330 --> 00:00:09.830 Deep Dasgupta was a wicketkeeper batter 00:00:09.830 --> 00:00:12.390 who captained India. Since finishing playing, 00:00:12.570 --> 00:00:14.970 he spends half his time coaching and the other 00:00:14.970 --> 00:00:17.750 half broadcasting. He's based between India, 00:00:17.850 --> 00:00:20.410 where he's often found behind a microphone, and 00:00:20.410 --> 00:00:22.850 Reading, where he's throwing at batters and keepers. 00:00:22.989 --> 00:00:26.250 He set up a coaching academy with links to IPL 00:00:26.250 --> 00:00:29.030 franchises and works with younger club players. 00:00:29.530 --> 00:00:31.809 Tim Dellor's been speaking to Deep about his 00:00:31.809 --> 00:00:34.689 approach to keeping coaching and his life nowadays. 00:00:35.229 --> 00:00:38.369 Us cricketers, when we retire, we actually haven't 00:00:38.369 --> 00:00:41.049 planned for our future, right? So I retired and 00:00:41.049 --> 00:00:44.310 I was like, what am I supposed to do? So I coached 00:00:44.310 --> 00:00:48.530 an IPL side. I ran an IPL side. I became the 00:00:48.530 --> 00:00:50.770 chairman of selection in my first class side. 00:00:50.950 --> 00:00:53.289 I did a lot of that. And then I stumbled upon 00:00:53.289 --> 00:00:56.509 broadcast. And I was like, wow, this sounds right. 00:00:56.649 --> 00:00:59.399 This sounds good. And that's... what I do right 00:00:59.399 --> 00:01:02.240 now predominantly a sports broadcaster cricket 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:04.819 broadcaster and every now and then the coaching 00:01:04.819 --> 00:01:07.359 still happens to be my passion so whenever I 00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:10.280 have some time I try and you know coach as much 00:01:10.280 --> 00:01:12.980 as possible and you're between Reading and India 00:01:12.980 --> 00:01:15.799 now Reading I was born India I spent a bit of 00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:18.000 time there quite different culturally aren't 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:20.790 they Quite different cricket -wise. It is, but 00:01:20.790 --> 00:01:23.230 you know what? The language of cricket is the 00:01:23.230 --> 00:01:25.489 same. The grammar is the same, right? You can 00:01:25.489 --> 00:01:27.930 form those sentences a little differently, but 00:01:27.930 --> 00:01:30.510 I guess the basic grammar doesn't change no matter 00:01:30.510 --> 00:01:33.150 where you play the sport. The approach, again, 00:01:33.310 --> 00:01:36.209 with T20 cricket and all of that, I think that 00:01:36.209 --> 00:01:39.250 approach, which was kind of a little different, 00:01:39.349 --> 00:01:42.489 is also aligning now all over the world. I do 00:01:42.489 --> 00:01:44.629 travel quite a bit, obviously cover a lot of 00:01:44.629 --> 00:01:47.540 cricket. Indian cricket and in India, do a little 00:01:47.540 --> 00:01:49.700 bit of other stuff as well, traveling to other 00:01:49.700 --> 00:01:51.780 countries. But yeah, I mean, like I said, I mean, 00:01:51.819 --> 00:01:53.920 the basic grammar remains the same. And also 00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:56.959 because of franchise cricket, Tim. What has happened 00:01:56.959 --> 00:01:59.920 is the players have started to travel so much 00:01:59.920 --> 00:02:02.980 that the thought process of starting to align 00:02:02.980 --> 00:02:06.359 is a lot of exchange of ideas when you play for 00:02:06.359 --> 00:02:09.180 different franchises. So the difference when 00:02:09.180 --> 00:02:12.360 we were playing, when I went to Australia to 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:14.400 play, the way the Australians thought or when 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:16.680 I played against England, the way the English 00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:18.620 players thought were a little different. But 00:02:18.620 --> 00:02:21.280 now, because of franchise cricket, I think there's 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:23.099 a lot of synergy there in the thought process, 00:02:23.180 --> 00:02:25.919 a lot of exchange of ideas. So it's not very 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:28.080 different now when players from different countries 00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:30.319 play. Yeah, so it's not very different now across 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:33.180 the globe, but it's pretty different from when 00:02:33.180 --> 00:02:35.939 you played. I'm not going to age you here, but 00:02:35.939 --> 00:02:38.520 it's a few years since you retired as a player. 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:41.360 A few years. Got ahead of the curve a bit, didn't 00:02:41.360 --> 00:02:44.199 you, by doing your coaching badges, I think whilst 00:02:44.199 --> 00:02:46.620 you were still playing pretty much, which on 00:02:46.620 --> 00:02:49.020 reflection was a... A good thing, wasn't it? 00:02:49.199 --> 00:02:52.259 It was a brilliant thing, Tim, because my area 00:02:52.259 --> 00:02:54.860 of expertise was wicketkeeping and batting. And 00:02:54.860 --> 00:02:58.240 if you look back, say, early 2000s when I was 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:00.800 playing, there was a lot of coaching regarding, 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:03.680 let's say, batting and bowling and all, but not 00:03:03.680 --> 00:03:06.719 to wicketkeeping. It was the same ideas, the 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:09.560 same technique, which I guess has been going 00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:12.509 on for hundreds of years, right? So I was like, 00:03:12.569 --> 00:03:14.849 I had a little bit of issues because when you're 00:03:14.849 --> 00:03:17.150 keeping in first class cricket and suddenly you 00:03:17.150 --> 00:03:19.509 play for India and you're keeping to Anil Kumble 00:03:19.509 --> 00:03:22.129 and Harbhajan Singh on turning tracks, it's a 00:03:22.129 --> 00:03:25.689 very different ballgame. So what I did was I 00:03:25.689 --> 00:03:28.250 came over to England to play club cricket and 00:03:28.250 --> 00:03:31.349 I finished my badges here while I was playing 00:03:31.349 --> 00:03:34.330 club cricket one of the summers. And I said, 00:03:34.430 --> 00:03:36.699 you know what, I'm going to coach myself. And 00:03:36.699 --> 00:03:39.699 it made a huge difference. And I keep advocating. 00:03:40.060 --> 00:03:42.900 I'm a big advocator of these young kids who are 00:03:42.900 --> 00:03:46.020 still playing to actually go do their badges. 00:03:46.099 --> 00:03:49.819 And then it helps them look at their game differently. 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:52.879 It helps them to coach themselves as well. And 00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:55.240 I'm interested in the number of wicketkeepers 00:03:55.240 --> 00:03:59.879 that then become really good coaches and why 00:03:59.879 --> 00:04:02.580 that might be. So, I mean, I'm thinking in the 00:04:02.580 --> 00:04:05.159 English first class game right now, we've got... 00:04:05.310 --> 00:04:07.810 Paul Farbrace, Peter Moores obviously doing 00:04:07.810 --> 00:04:10.509 really well. Well, Brendon McCullum, I suppose, 00:04:10.610 --> 00:04:13.669 is an obvious example. David Ripley up at Northampton 00:04:13.669 --> 00:04:16.670 until recently. There are loads of others. Don't 00:04:16.670 --> 00:04:18.449 ask me now because I'm doing this off the top 00:04:18.449 --> 00:04:20.889 of my head. I mean, listen, I'm in Fozzie. I'm 00:04:20.889 --> 00:04:22.769 in Fozzie. I keep bumping into him. Yes, James 00:04:22.769 --> 00:04:25.189 Foster, yeah. He's been using him now, right? 00:04:25.509 --> 00:04:28.790 Exactly. And there's Adrian Shaw over at Glamorgan 00:04:28.790 --> 00:04:30.750 and Chris Reid's doing really well. There's loads 00:04:30.750 --> 00:04:34.180 of keepers. who are then becoming really good 00:04:34.180 --> 00:04:36.579 coaches. Why do you think that is? What is it 00:04:36.579 --> 00:04:38.879 about being a wicketkeeper that then perhaps 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:42.100 qualifies you and gives you that little edge 00:04:42.100 --> 00:04:45.139 to become a decent coach? I guess, you know, 00:04:45.180 --> 00:04:49.079 as keepers, you are anyways the fielding captain, 00:04:49.240 --> 00:04:51.519 right? You are a leader any which way when the 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:54.060 team's on the field. So that you look at the 00:04:54.060 --> 00:04:56.720 game very differently. So as a keeper, you bat 00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:58.360 as well. So you know your batting technique. 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:02.589 But as a keeper, you're also... You're the best 00:05:02.589 --> 00:05:04.769 guide to the bowler, to your captain. You know 00:05:04.769 --> 00:05:08.410 your fielding angles, the field placements, what 00:05:08.410 --> 00:05:10.629 the bowler is trying to do and how the bowler 00:05:10.629 --> 00:05:13.129 should bowl, which line, which pace. As a keeper, 00:05:13.329 --> 00:05:17.129 you look at the game from a 360 degrees, right? 00:05:17.209 --> 00:05:18.829 So when you're a batter on a bowler, there's 00:05:18.829 --> 00:05:21.360 a chance that you look at the game from... from 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:24.199 one dimension what you do what is your area of 00:05:24.199 --> 00:05:26.120 expertise if you're a batter looking at from 00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:27.779 a batter's point of view if you're a bowler from 00:05:27.779 --> 00:05:30.220 that point of view but I think I mean naturally 00:05:30.220 --> 00:05:32.720 keepers are leaders is what I think they look 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:35.180 at it you know the centre of the ground they 00:05:35.180 --> 00:05:37.860 have a 360 degree view and that's how they look 00:05:37.860 --> 00:05:40.480 at the game as well and hence they can relate 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:43.220 to everyone else as well in the side whether 00:05:43.220 --> 00:05:45.180 you're a bowler or a batter you can relate to 00:05:45.180 --> 00:05:47.310 them And another part of it is often you have 00:05:47.310 --> 00:05:49.269 to look after yourself or traditionally, not 00:05:49.269 --> 00:05:53.709 so much now maybe, but when you... I suspect 00:05:53.709 --> 00:05:56.310 a lot of the time it was all deep, pop the gloves 00:05:56.310 --> 00:05:58.610 on and help out with his fielding practice. And 00:05:58.610 --> 00:06:00.550 we haven't got a meter today, so do you mind 00:06:00.550 --> 00:06:02.910 just doing some glove work whilst the bowlers 00:06:02.910 --> 00:06:05.810 are warming up? You're having to look after your 00:06:05.810 --> 00:06:08.269 little department and to the benefit of the team, 00:06:08.410 --> 00:06:10.810 whereas others, if you're a seam bowler, you've 00:06:10.810 --> 00:06:13.529 got your masseur there and you've got your fast 00:06:13.529 --> 00:06:15.629 bowling coach there and the head coach chips 00:06:15.629 --> 00:06:18.050 in and you've probably got a statistician there. 00:06:18.290 --> 00:06:20.509 You've got everybody piling in, whereas keepers, 00:06:20.509 --> 00:06:22.379 you have to look after yourself a bit more. One 00:06:22.379 --> 00:06:25.660 is that, Tim, and well, you'll guess my age. 00:06:25.740 --> 00:06:27.939 I mean, people are listening. First half of my 00:06:27.939 --> 00:06:31.759 career, didn't have any specialist coaches or 00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:34.019 a video analyst. The first time I saw a video 00:06:34.019 --> 00:06:36.199 analyst was when I played for India in 2001, 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:39.779 2002. And in first class cricket, we didn't have 00:06:39.779 --> 00:06:43.579 one until 2006, 2007. So you actually doubled 00:06:43.579 --> 00:06:45.560 up, like you said, as a fielding coach as well. 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:47.819 Because, you know, if the main coach, and you 00:06:47.819 --> 00:06:50.160 used to have only one coach, right? So when the 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:52.540 main coach was... you know, with the batter or 00:06:52.540 --> 00:06:54.759 the bowler, you would be helping somebody out 00:06:54.759 --> 00:06:58.000 with fielding. Same when a bowler needed, he's 00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:00.500 not in rhythm, you would do single wicket. I 00:07:00.500 --> 00:07:02.000 don't know what it's called nowadays, but we 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:03.779 would do single wicket, bowler bowling to the 00:07:03.779 --> 00:07:05.779 wicket keeper with just one stump. You have the 00:07:05.779 --> 00:07:07.879 interaction with the bowler. Naturally, again, 00:07:08.019 --> 00:07:10.300 like you rightly said, we didn't have a lot of 00:07:10.300 --> 00:07:13.360 these coaches or analysts. So the keeper had 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:16.620 to do a lot of those jobs as well. So I think 00:07:16.620 --> 00:07:18.860 you start looking after yourself. You start looking 00:07:18.860 --> 00:07:21.839 after your mates as well. For example, slip fielding. 00:07:21.860 --> 00:07:24.199 I still remember there was a season where our 00:07:24.199 --> 00:07:26.560 slippers first couple of games started dropping 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:28.699 a few catches. So I took it upon myself to make 00:07:28.699 --> 00:07:31.379 sure, you know, we do slip catching post-practice 00:07:31.379 --> 00:07:33.259 every day. Make sure, you know, the slippers, 00:07:33.459 --> 00:07:36.639 the assigned slippers are there and we take 25, 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:39.500 30 catches before the end of practice. Now we 00:07:39.500 --> 00:07:42.019 do have some specialist wicketkeeping coaches 00:07:42.019 --> 00:07:44.860 around. And I just want to have a deep dive into, 00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:48.220 an area which, for a lot of us general coaches, 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:51.399 it can be a bit murky, because if you've actually 00:07:51.399 --> 00:07:54.319 had the experience of keeping, you've got a better 00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:56.879 idea. The rest of us, they're the guys who stop 00:07:56.879 --> 00:07:59.000 the ball and sometimes catch it, and that's about 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:01.360 it, whereas you spend a lot of your life thinking 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:05.100 about it. And I just generally work as a start 00:08:05.100 --> 00:08:09.170 point, as a principles: head, hands, feet. That's 00:08:09.170 --> 00:08:12.509 very shallow, I suspect. Tell us, what do you 00:08:12.509 --> 00:08:15.529 look at when you're first working with or looking 00:08:15.529 --> 00:08:19.029 at a young keeper? Where do you go first? First 00:08:19.029 --> 00:08:23.329 thing that I see is hand. how how nice are your 00:08:23.329 --> 00:08:25.529 hands I mean how you catch the ball I mean that 00:08:25.529 --> 00:08:28.189 is the basic right irrespective whether your 00:08:28.189 --> 00:08:31.110 body's body have gone your feet have taken you 00:08:31.110 --> 00:08:32.769 to the ball or not if you have good hands you'll 00:08:32.769 --> 00:08:35.250 catch it even if you're not in balance and right 00:08:35.250 --> 00:08:38.309 alignment and all of that jazz so I think for 00:08:38.309 --> 00:08:41.600 me how one catches is the most important thing. 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:43.879 You know, the basic catching technique. Some 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:46.960 guys have naturally good hands. So that's number 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:49.279 one. Second is the balance with. I think if you 00:08:49.279 --> 00:08:51.000 have the balance and you have the, I mean, you 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:53.759 have good hands, everything else can be coached. 00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:56.059 And in fact, you know, even the balance can be 00:08:56.059 --> 00:08:59.240 coached. But if you have balance and hands, hands 00:08:59.240 --> 00:09:02.259 for me is the most important thing. If you have 00:09:02.259 --> 00:09:04.740 those two things. I guess everything can be worked 00:09:04.740 --> 00:09:06.919 upon because at times, you know, Tim, we also 00:09:06.919 --> 00:09:09.519 tend to overcomplicate the sport a little bit. 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:12.779 As coaches, it is important because it is a tough 00:09:12.779 --> 00:09:15.700 one. It is a complicated sport. But I think as 00:09:15.700 --> 00:09:19.500 coaches and good coaches, our job is to simplify 00:09:19.500 --> 00:09:23.259 a difficult job. That's what a job of a good 00:09:23.259 --> 00:09:27.120 coach is. If a coach also complicates complicated 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:30.539 things, then it's... I mean it does not help 00:09:30.539 --> 00:09:33.240 anyone right so when I listen to a lot of people 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:35.539 I watch a lot of people they talk about angles 00:09:35.539 --> 00:09:37.659 and this all those are important but you can't 00:09:37.659 --> 00:09:39.799 tell a 12 year old about angles and stuff right 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:43.259 you just have to bring it down to the basics 00:09:43.259 --> 00:09:45.620 and say you know what just work on one or two 00:09:45.620 --> 00:09:49.000 things everything else we'll see you know with 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:51.379 time we'll work on them but hands and balance 00:09:51.379 --> 00:09:53.750 are two very very important things We might come 00:09:53.750 --> 00:09:56.090 back to simplifying the sport in a moment, but 00:09:56.090 --> 00:09:58.429 just go in a little bit more detail with the 00:09:58.429 --> 00:10:02.779 hands. Do keepers generally have a stronger hand 00:10:02.779 --> 00:10:06.539 and a catching hand? So I'm trying to demonstrate, 00:10:06.659 --> 00:10:08.440 which doesn't work very well on a radio podcast, 00:10:08.620 --> 00:10:11.700 but I've got my hands sort of webbed together 00:10:11.700 --> 00:10:15.519 here. And I mean, are you a right-handed keeper, 00:10:15.620 --> 00:10:17.399 a left-handed keeper, or do you try and catch 00:10:17.399 --> 00:10:19.299 the ball in the joint or the fingers point down 00:10:19.299 --> 00:10:21.779 or up? Big catching area I hear about. Strong 00:10:21.779 --> 00:10:24.440 hands is something rather than soft hands, which 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:27.799 can... I'll do a bit misleading. So the word 00:10:27.799 --> 00:10:30.360 I use is firm hands. It can't be too strong. 00:10:30.419 --> 00:10:33.259 It's going to pop out. It can't be too soft either. 00:10:33.460 --> 00:10:36.220 So the word that I use is firm. So that's somewhere 00:10:36.220 --> 00:10:39.320 in between when it's not too soft, not too strong 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:42.200 either. Yes, join your little fingers. So your 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:45.419 little fingers are together. And thumbs are wide 00:10:45.419 --> 00:10:48.139 apart. So that's how you create that space that 00:10:48.139 --> 00:10:50.519 you just spoke about. So little fingers together, 00:10:50.659 --> 00:10:53.440 thumbs apart. And the important thing is, and 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:56.120 post-MS Dhoni, I think a lot of keeping has 00:10:56.120 --> 00:10:59.139 changed post -MS Dhoni. Because I think he just 00:10:59.139 --> 00:11:01.919 took the whole playbook and chucked it out of 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:04.519 the window. The whole coaching, wicket-keeping 00:11:04.519 --> 00:11:06.980 coaching book. And that's actually one of the 00:11:06.980 --> 00:11:10.440 things also I started thinking about it is, he's 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:13.539 so good. But he's so unorthodox. Obviously, he's 00:11:13.539 --> 00:11:15.740 doing something right. That's when I started 00:11:15.740 --> 00:11:17.899 looking deeper into wicket keeping and technique 00:11:17.899 --> 00:11:20.460 and all. And what I thought, there are certain 00:11:20.460 --> 00:11:23.019 things which are non-negotiable. Hands which 00:11:23.019 --> 00:11:26.460 are nice and firm, but on the softer side, good 00:11:26.460 --> 00:11:28.940 wide balance. Because earlier on, we were told, 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:31.639 okay, the width of your legs would be shoulder 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:34.840 width. But then, that's not really, you're not 00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:38.070 in balance, right? Now we've started advising 00:11:38.070 --> 00:11:40.690 kids to go or suggesting kids to go wider, stronger 00:11:40.690 --> 00:11:43.789 base, wider base. And then your feet don't move. 00:11:43.970 --> 00:11:46.149 Because when I was growing up, my coach would 00:11:46.149 --> 00:11:48.490 always say, oh, you don't need to dive. If you're 00:11:48.490 --> 00:11:50.370 a good keeper, you don't need to dive. Your feet 00:11:50.370 --> 00:11:52.230 will take you there. I'm sure you heard that 00:11:52.230 --> 00:11:55.029 as well. But that couldn't be further from the 00:11:55.029 --> 00:11:57.529 truth, right? Listen, the more you move, more 00:11:57.529 --> 00:12:00.950 your head moves. So more moving parts means more 00:12:00.950 --> 00:12:03.899 things to, you know, take care of. So those things 00:12:03.899 --> 00:12:06.500 have changed so much now in the last few years. 00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:09.159 And like I said with MS, the other thing is a 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:11.259 lot of keepers, we keep talking about giving, 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:14.220 even normal fielding-wise, right? When you catch, 00:12:14.360 --> 00:12:17.580 you give. But MS never had a give. He would just 00:12:17.580 --> 00:12:19.779 grab the ball and take off the bails from there. 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:21.519 And you see a lot of kids want to do that, which 00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:24.679 is fine. But I keep telling them, he has big 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:28.759 hands and padded hands. It's nice and soft and 00:12:28.759 --> 00:12:31.240 padded, those hands. And massive. He can't afford 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:33.919 to do that. But someone like me, I've got bony 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:36.000 hands. I don't have pads at all. If I start doing 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:38.220 that, every ball is going to pop out of my hand. 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:40.659 Not that I caught too many. But then, you know, 00:12:40.659 --> 00:12:42.360 if I try and do that, I'm going to not catch 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:44.899 any of those. So those things, you've got to 00:12:44.899 --> 00:12:46.919 be really careful because kids obviously want 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:48.659 to emulate their heroes or emulate what they 00:12:48.659 --> 00:12:50.919 see on television. But those things, you've got 00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:53.340 to be careful. and the head in line and the body 00:12:53.340 --> 00:12:55.700 behind? Or do you try and catch it inside of 00:12:55.700 --> 00:12:58.100 your body or outside of your body? Because I 00:12:58.100 --> 00:13:00.539 think that can vary depending on conditions, 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:04.440 perhaps. In Australia, they catch it more in 00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:06.580 line, but there's less movement in the air, perhaps. 00:13:06.740 --> 00:13:09.340 Whereas you do that on a cloudy day at Old Trafford 00:13:09.340 --> 00:13:13.700 and you get found out. Yeah. So there was this 00:13:13.700 --> 00:13:16.970 big concept of... against the fast bowlers, right? 00:13:17.070 --> 00:13:20.029 And I spent a lot of time with Rodney Marsh. 00:13:20.190 --> 00:13:22.129 And he would always say, you know, take the ball 00:13:22.129 --> 00:13:24.529 inside your body against the seamer. You know, 00:13:24.590 --> 00:13:27.289 so it gives you half a yard extra for the edges 00:13:27.289 --> 00:13:29.870 and all of that. I started doing that. And in 00:13:29.870 --> 00:13:31.769 India, in Australia, that's fine because you're 00:13:31.769 --> 00:13:33.950 standing 20 yards behind. You know, places like 00:13:33.950 --> 00:13:36.450 even England and India, the ball swings around, 00:13:36.590 --> 00:13:38.590 but it doesn't carry as much as Australia, right? 00:13:38.649 --> 00:13:40.529 So you're like standing 10 yards from the stumps. 00:13:40.809 --> 00:13:43.429 You don't have time. If you actually move that 00:13:43.429 --> 00:13:46.759 much, you're late. So you've got to be careful. 00:13:46.940 --> 00:13:49.220 So that's what I figured out. And then I went 00:13:49.220 --> 00:13:51.500 to South Africa. South Africa, very much like 00:13:51.500 --> 00:13:53.519 England, right? It starts swinging around even 00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:56.539 after it's gone past the batter. And I was moving 00:13:56.539 --> 00:13:59.379 and the ball started moving the other way. So 00:13:59.379 --> 00:14:02.139 I still remember Dave Richardson, South African 00:14:02.139 --> 00:14:03.720 keeper. He came over. He's like, you know what? 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:06.899 Don't do that in South Africa. Don't do that. 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:09.639 Just stand in one position. Just watch the ball 00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:11.820 into your hands. Make sure your head goes behind. 00:14:12.409 --> 00:14:14.809 And that's it. Don't take your body behind. Just 00:14:14.809 --> 00:14:18.629 stay there and stay still. And many keepers have 00:14:18.629 --> 00:14:21.210 come to grief. when the ball doesn't bounce so 00:14:21.210 --> 00:14:24.370 much. So sometimes in India, definitely in West 00:14:24.370 --> 00:14:28.009 Indies, that's been the graveyard of a few very 00:14:28.009 --> 00:14:30.009 good keepers, hasn't it? And I think the key 00:14:30.009 --> 00:14:32.110 is to try and catch it between knee and hip height. 00:14:32.129 --> 00:14:34.029 Is that what you generally try and do? So you're 00:14:34.029 --> 00:14:36.970 standing back far enough. So in places like England, 00:14:37.169 --> 00:14:40.629 Australia, South Africa, more so in Australia, 00:14:40.710 --> 00:14:44.649 you can afford to do that, say knee to hip. But 00:14:44.649 --> 00:14:47.409 even in England, there are pitches which don't 00:14:47.409 --> 00:14:51.029 carry as much. Old Trafford would carry. Leeds 00:14:51.029 --> 00:14:53.870 would carry. But let's say Oval, you know, day 00:14:53.870 --> 00:14:56.990 three, day four, it won't carry as much. So there 00:14:56.990 --> 00:14:58.669 is a chance that you're really close because 00:14:58.669 --> 00:15:01.330 you also have to be wary of outside edges. How 00:15:01.330 --> 00:15:03.149 much reaction time would you have? According 00:15:03.149 --> 00:15:05.649 to that, you're just yourself. Then according 00:15:05.649 --> 00:15:08.129 to the batter as well, if the batter is a defensive 00:15:08.129 --> 00:15:10.090 batter, you know those edges won't carry. So 00:15:10.090 --> 00:15:13.250 you can get half a step or a step forward. But 00:15:13.250 --> 00:15:15.330 if a batter was throwing the bat at the ball, 00:15:15.470 --> 00:15:17.370 you know those edges would carry and they would 00:15:17.370 --> 00:15:20.129 carry quickly to you. So you don't go forward 00:15:20.129 --> 00:15:22.129 then. So there are a few things that you have 00:15:22.129 --> 00:15:24.750 to worry about. Then if it's a day game and you 00:15:24.750 --> 00:15:27.129 have a slip in place, if you've gone forward, 00:15:27.210 --> 00:15:29.490 you make sure your first slip is closer to you. 00:15:29.740 --> 00:15:31.580 because you won't be able to cover that much 00:15:31.580 --> 00:15:34.139 area. So I think there is a combination of a 00:15:34.139 --> 00:15:36.759 few things, but ideally speaking, rule of thumb 00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:39.279 would be knee, knee anywhere around shin to knee. 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:41.259 Yeah, so that's more a tactical thing. We talked 00:15:41.259 --> 00:15:42.940 a lot about technique, and what I've been thinking 00:15:42.940 --> 00:15:44.879 whilst you and I have been chatting here is that 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:49.500 we talk about Malinga being unorthodox as a bowler. 00:15:49.580 --> 00:15:52.500 We talk about Smith being unorthodox as a batter. 00:15:53.639 --> 00:15:56.600 MS Dhoni perhaps is the best example, is he a 00:15:56.600 --> 00:16:00.000 keeper recently who's... flouted the classic 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:03.919 rule book and is unorthodox. And I suppose for 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:07.200 keeping coaching, we need to keep in mind as 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:08.740 much as when we're coaching our balls and our 00:16:08.740 --> 00:16:11.460 batters that people will have a uniqueness, won't 00:16:11.460 --> 00:16:13.120 they? They'll have their own way of doing it. 00:16:13.159 --> 00:16:14.440 But as long as they catch the thing, it doesn't 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:17.379 really matter. Absolutely. Like I said, I mean, 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:19.360 for me, it's very simple. If you're catching 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:22.460 the ball and generally you have a decent balance. 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:25.519 I think everything else will take care of itself. 00:16:25.700 --> 00:16:27.460 I don't know whether you remember or not, there 00:16:27.460 --> 00:16:29.559 was a West Indian wicket keeper called Ridley 00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:33.840 Jacobs. I do, yeah. Yeah. And I don't know if 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:36.700 you remember him keeping. He was all over the 00:16:36.700 --> 00:16:38.720 place. He was falling all over the place and 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:41.019 all, but he would catch everything. So we were 00:16:41.019 --> 00:16:43.080 playing West Indies and one of the evenings after 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:44.679 the game, I was like, how do you manage to do 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:47.559 that? He's like, you know, my job is to catch 00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:50.679 the ball. How I catch it is my business. I don't 00:16:50.679 --> 00:16:52.240 worry about anything else. As long as I'm catching 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:54.419 the balls, it's fine. I say, yeah, fair point. 00:16:54.659 --> 00:16:56.960 Can't argue with that. I can't argue with that. 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:00.120 So I guess that's what it is. You can overcomplicate 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:02.639 things by getting into the details and stuff 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:05.359 and all of that, which is fair enough. It works 00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:07.980 for some people. But for me, I'd rather keep 00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:10.460 it very, very simple. I don't mind doing about 00:17:10.460 --> 00:17:13.950 30 squats in a gym session. twice a week that's 00:17:13.950 --> 00:17:17.049 about that's about where I'm at okay you guys 00:17:17.049 --> 00:17:19.089 are absolute monsters aren't you when it comes 00:17:19.089 --> 00:17:21.589 to squatting and the physical side I think I 00:17:21.589 --> 00:17:23.470 remember that stat about Alec Stewart do you 00:17:23.470 --> 00:17:26.170 remember who was involved in every delivery in 00:17:26.170 --> 00:17:27.930 a test match I think it was in Barbados because 00:17:27.930 --> 00:17:30.950 he opened the batting twice carried his bat or 00:17:30.950 --> 00:17:34.230 was not out and then was keeping in those conditions 00:17:34.230 --> 00:17:36.029 I just I find that one of the most incredible 00:17:36.029 --> 00:17:39.289 cricket statistics of a test match and the keeping 00:17:39.289 --> 00:17:42.410 physical side you've got to be very strong in 00:17:42.410 --> 00:17:44.910 the legs haven't you to be able to in long format 00:17:44.910 --> 00:17:48.069 especially absolutely yes there's no two ways 00:17:48.069 --> 00:17:50.589 about I think fast bowlers and wicket keepers 00:17:50.589 --> 00:17:53.400 got to be the fittest in the side There's absolutely 00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:55.759 no two ways about it. In fact, there was a test 00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:58.920 match against England. I got the 100. I think 00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:01.460 apart from one session, maybe one and a half 00:18:01.460 --> 00:18:03.420 session, I was on the field for all five days. 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:06.059 Four and a half or something. It is what it is. 00:18:06.140 --> 00:18:07.759 I mean, you've got to love this as well. This 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:10.619 side of wicket keeping, which is such an integral 00:18:10.619 --> 00:18:13.380 part. Something that has actually helped or does 00:18:13.380 --> 00:18:15.480 help keeper nowadays. Because earlier on, we 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:18.660 were asked to squat all the way down. Now, obviously, 00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:21.700 what we advise is staying in that power position, 00:18:21.859 --> 00:18:23.839 which is roughly around that 90 degrees where 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:25.539 your hips are higher than your knees and stuff 00:18:25.539 --> 00:18:27.779 like that. So you don't have to go all the way 00:18:27.779 --> 00:18:30.880 down. So I just think about it now and I can't 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:33.140 fathom how I would do it. I mean, just go down 00:18:33.140 --> 00:18:35.460 all the way and then it's like a proper full 00:18:35.460 --> 00:18:37.680 squat. Now it's half squat. But yeah, I mean, 00:18:37.700 --> 00:18:41.180 that's the aspect which people don't see. But 00:18:41.180 --> 00:18:43.779 it is a very, very important because chances 00:18:43.779 --> 00:18:47.480 are, you know, if you're dropping catches. let's 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:50.819 say in the third session of the day post-tea 00:18:50.819 --> 00:18:53.440 or even let's say the 48th over and all it's 00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:55.980 not because you're not concentrating a lot of 00:18:55.980 --> 00:18:58.859 courses oh you focus and concentrate but chances 00:18:58.859 --> 00:19:01.859 are your body is not fit enough because your 00:19:01.859 --> 00:19:04.960 body is not fit enough your mind is not fit enough 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:08.519 either so once your body is fit you can squat 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:10.940 so many times let's say 50 over game which is 00:19:10.940 --> 00:19:13.640 what 300 times maybe 310 a few wide balls 00:19:13.640 --> 00:19:16.539 if you can do that comfortably I think all the 00:19:16.539 --> 00:19:19.200 other things take care of itself yeah and Alec 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:20.839 Stewart we didn't mention him did we when we're 00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:24.039 talking about good keepers Very good coaches. 00:19:24.299 --> 00:19:27.799 He should be in our list, definitely. You mentioned, 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:29.740 I can't imagine you ever dropped a catch deep, 00:19:29.779 --> 00:19:32.900 but maybe a long time ago. Sorry, you nearly 00:19:32.900 --> 00:19:35.000 choked on your water there when you were drinking. 00:19:35.220 --> 00:19:38.680 Yeah, I almost choked on it. I dropped, yeah, 00:19:38.779 --> 00:19:42.200 I dropped my catch deep. Maybe, maybe, I don't 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:45.599 remember that. But just say you did. That must 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:48.460 have been when your mental strength was most 00:19:48.460 --> 00:19:50.960 tested, your resilience, because the natural 00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:53.000 place to go is into your shell and hope you don't 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:55.039 get another one. But I suppose the real winners 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:57.339 when it comes to wicketkeeping, they want another 00:19:57.339 --> 00:19:59.440 nick to come their way in the next over. That 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:02.799 is so true, Tim, because I've been through both 00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:05.579 sides of that spectrum where I've dropped the 00:20:05.579 --> 00:20:09.720 catch. And I was scared and I hoped and I prayed 00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:11.960 I don't get another nick. I've been through 00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:14.319 those moments as well. And I've been through 00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:15.960 moments where I've dropped and I said, it's all 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:17.940 right. I'm ready for the next one. And that is 00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:20.240 a very, very important part because it is a thankless 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:23.200 job. It is a thankless job. You will drop. So 00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:25.599 the best day for a wicketkeeper in a game is 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:27.599 when he's not mentioned at all. If your name 00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:29.460 is not mentioned, you know you've done a fabulous 00:20:29.460 --> 00:20:32.500 job. That's how thankless the job is. And so 00:20:32.500 --> 00:20:34.359 you've got to get used to it. I still remember 00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:37.380 one of my favourite wicketkeepers all time is 00:20:37.380 --> 00:20:40.220 Ian Healy. And some of you will remember, and 00:20:40.220 --> 00:20:42.599 you would, that series against West Indies. He 00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:45.880 dropped and Australia lost that series because 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:48.180 of one catch. So I was like, listen, if Ian Healy 00:20:48.180 --> 00:20:50.740 can drop a catch and Australia loses a series, 00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:55.119 anyone can. So it's fine. I mean, you will drop 00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:58.660 catches. But like you said, how you bounce is 00:20:58.660 --> 00:21:00.859 important. And that's what I keep telling kids 00:21:00.859 --> 00:21:04.009 as well. Have a routine in place because it will 00:21:04.009 --> 00:21:06.869 happen. I'm not saying you're preparing yourself 00:21:06.869 --> 00:21:09.750 to drop catches, but it will happen. You prepare 00:21:09.750 --> 00:21:12.710 yourself how to react when something like that 00:21:12.710 --> 00:21:15.690 happens. So like batting, we keep talking about 00:21:15.690 --> 00:21:18.029 having routines, right? Before you play a ball, 00:21:18.089 --> 00:21:19.990 you have your routines. Before a match starts, 00:21:20.069 --> 00:21:22.309 you have a routine and all. For bowlers as well. 00:21:22.509 --> 00:21:25.670 So for keepers too, you should have routines 00:21:25.670 --> 00:21:29.130 before a ball and after a ball or whatever between 00:21:29.130 --> 00:21:31.900 balls. even for keeping as well, you should have 00:21:31.900 --> 00:21:34.180 routines. You should prepare yourself for those 00:21:34.180 --> 00:21:36.279 moments as well. Yeah, I remember talking to 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:38.759 one coach who talked about fielding rather than 00:21:38.759 --> 00:21:40.339 wicketkeeping specifically, but I thought it 00:21:40.339 --> 00:21:41.799 was a particularly brilliant point they made 00:21:41.799 --> 00:21:44.740 about how as long as you've done the drills that 00:21:44.740 --> 00:21:46.900 you've been seen to be doing the practices and 00:21:46.900 --> 00:21:49.660 you've put the work in, then really nobody can 00:21:49.660 --> 00:21:51.859 be too critical, can they? Because you've done 00:21:51.859 --> 00:21:54.180 everything right and you will drop a catch. But 00:21:54.180 --> 00:21:56.859 I suppose the only time you leave yourself open 00:21:56.859 --> 00:21:59.559 to any accusations is if you've been... taken 00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:02.519 shortcuts in the warm -ups and in the training. 00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:05.299 I've heard this before as well and I keep saying 00:22:05.299 --> 00:22:08.500 this as well you know as long as you've put in 00:22:08.500 --> 00:22:11.240 your 100 % you can't possibly do anything more 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:14.180 it's good to say all of that but as a player 00:22:14.180 --> 00:22:16.480 when you let's say you're playing a test match 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:18.039 or you're playing a whatever an international 00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:21.259 game and you drop someone who goes on to win 00:22:21.259 --> 00:22:24.240 the game for his team you know you've put in 00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:26.980 the work but then still and it's not your teammates. 00:22:27.630 --> 00:22:29.750 you know the chances are it's not the outside 00:22:29.750 --> 00:22:32.109 voice chances are what bothers you is the voice 00:22:32.109 --> 00:22:35.710 inside you and hence that routine becomes very 00:22:35.710 --> 00:22:38.690 important how you handle the conversation in 00:22:38.690 --> 00:22:41.589 your head is a lot more important than what the 00:22:41.589 --> 00:22:44.049 outside world is saying Yeah, it's so interesting, 00:22:44.109 --> 00:22:45.910 isn't it? That psychological side of the game. 00:22:46.009 --> 00:22:47.849 Well, it's great to catch up with you, Deep. 00:22:47.910 --> 00:22:49.630 I've thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. I'm 00:22:49.630 --> 00:22:51.990 sorry I made you splatter on your water a bit 00:22:51.990 --> 00:22:54.349 earlier on. That was a real highlight of this 00:22:54.349 --> 00:22:57.230 series, I've got to say. So what does the next 00:22:57.230 --> 00:22:59.750 few months look like for you? You're in India 00:22:59.750 --> 00:23:02.170 for a bit and then back in the UK for a bit, 00:23:02.210 --> 00:23:05.410 back in lovely Reading. yes three weeks off between 00:23:05.410 --> 00:23:08.650 world cup and IPL back home again and maybe some 00:23:08.650 --> 00:23:11.450 coaching then for the IPL and then finally uh 00:23:11.450 --> 00:23:15.059 summer back home doing nothing but coaching Great. 00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:16.859 Well, thanks so much for your time, Deep. It's 00:23:16.859 --> 00:23:18.640 been great catching up with you. Thoroughly enjoyed 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:20.680 it and we will catch up properly when you're 00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:23.200 back in the UK. Thank you. Thank you for your 00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:25.559 time as well. It was lovely to be on air with 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:28.019 you, Tim. Thank you so much. Deep Dasgupta speaking 00:23:28.019 --> 00:23:31.380 to Tim from India. Thanks to him for taking time 00:23:31.380 --> 00:23:33.900 out from his busy coaching and broadcasting commitments. 00:23:34.299 --> 00:23:36.779 We'll have another icoachcricket Podcast for 00:23:36.779 --> 00:23:38.900 you to download soon. Thanks for listening.