Welcome to The icoachcricket Podcast. In this
episode, we're off to Somerset. The county's
head of pathway is Andrew Griffiths. Before Somerset,
the ECB Level 4 coach was a performance analyst
at Nottinghamshire. Somerset have a good record
producing young players who've gone on to play
first -class cricket over the years. Tim Dellor's
been to the ground at Taunton to find out how
they keep players rolling off the production
lines. So here we are, off -season at Taunton.
The outfield's interesting. There's a lot of
work going on here at the moment, isn't there?
Yes, there is, Tim. Huge amount happening. Obviously
just completely refurbed the outfield, I think,
in terms of relaying it. Ripping it all up. putting
it to bed after another season and obviously
the indoor school as well is another area where
there's a lot of work going on at the moment
as well yeah exciting exciting winter ahead but
it has created some delays as well in terms of
it not being ready to start until the back end
of November now but everyone has this little
window of time where you can get things done
and without it impacting the cricket too much
which already seems a long time ago but and the
indoor school yes i went in there earlier on
and it's got ladders up and all stripped out
and it looks like there's a lot going on there
how's that impacted what you do on a day -to
-day basis because i'm imagining you spend a
lot of your winter typically in the indoor school
Yeah so typically we normally are in there from
the start of November onwards and obviously like
I say it's kind of pushed us back by three or
four weeks which is a shame but it'll be worth
the wait it needed to happen and I think it's
quite funny actually the reason it did get pushed
back a little bit was a result of qualifying
for finals day in the T20 Blast the men's team
so meant that we just needed to hold on to that
facility for a little bit longer in terms of
providing them with opportunities to prep and
stuff when it was it was quite wet and rainy
at that stage so that meant it created some delays
but thankfully it was worth it with how that
turned out it's a funny old time and it has has
created some some delays but it will be it'll
be worth the wait it's going to be a much improved
facility as well so it'd be great to get in there
soon well let's just stay on that then so that's
really interesting that your t20 team because
of weather and yeah it was a wet time wasn't
it at the back end of the summer had to go indoors
to do some of their prep there how easy is it
as coaches to set up meaningful practice in an
indoor setup where which is very different from
finals day outdoors yeah I mean obviously from
a pro perspective I limited involvement in that
side of things this year I've been around that
group in the past and I can kind of relate to
my own experiences of that but certainly from
a pathway perspective I think it it's a challenge
and it's something We're really big on trying
to create context and trying to set problems
for players to solve, which is hard, right? If
you think, as a young player, you might have
a four -month season, you might be outside from
May through to the end of August, and then that's
eight months of the year where you're either
not playing the sport or you're playing in a
context or an environment that looks nothing
like the sport itself. It's completely different,
isn't it? Yeah, and you look at a ground and
how vast the space it is and how hard it is to
recreate that in an indoor school when you've
effectively got... one maybe two or three net
lanes that you can utilize and try and use that
space as well as possible but I think you have
to be really skillful as a coach to think about
how you are trying to create relevant problems
that are effectively still trying to develop
players for the game of cricket so that when
they are dropped back into the context of a match
situation they're better off the back of the
the program they've had through the winter so
it does come with challenges but they're exciting
and fun challenges You have to be quite creative,
don't you, to do that, and you have to have really
good knowledge of the game. The technique bit,
in many ways, is the easy bit to coach, isn't
it, especially indoors, and that problem -solving
element, to inject some of that into your sessions
as a coach is far more taxing, really, isn't
it, indoors? Yeah, I completely agree, and you
can see why other sports talk about having similar
issues as well, but I do think it's an issue
that's far greater in cricket in the sense that...
The challenges around us training in an environment
that is representative of the game itself are
huge, obviously, especially in this country where...
A lot of other cricket player nations don't have
that issue. They tend to be outside most of the
year. That's the easy answer, isn't it? Just
jet off to somewhere hotter, somewhere drier.
Yeah, we're unfortunate most winters to have
two weeks in Sri Lanka with the pathway team.
Your budget now must be massive down at Somerset,
winning everything. I'm not so sure about that.
Not so sure. But yeah, I think it does create
challenges. And I think it is more challenging
from a coaching perspective. But I think if you
embrace those challenges and consider what it
is exactly you're trying to... to support players
with and what problems you're trying to help
them solve it's easy to move away from that more
traditional approach of just talking about technique
but you can definitely see why it's got to that
point if you think about well the easiest thing
to see in a one lane net session is the way in
which someone is moving because the outcome of
which they're demonstrating, there's a lot, you
know, it's far more challenging to see where
the ball actually ends up if you're an indoor
school and you've got one lane. It might be in
a period of the year where you might not be doing
a huge amount, if I'm thinking back to the pro
-based stuff now as well, but it might be a period
where they're doing less back V -ball. I have
a slightly different view on that in the pathway.
We would try and do a lot more back V -ball stuff.
And again, that's not devaluing the importance
of technical fundamentals. I think... it's important
that we find time to do that stuff through our
programmes. But ultimately, the way I look at
it, if you've got the best 18 to 20 cricketers
of that age in the county, in a room together,
once a fortnight, or however often you see them
for a winter, depending on what age they're at,
to me, it seems illogical to not utilise some
bat v ball opportunities, right? And actually
play the game as much as you can. Because that
is one thing that you can't. exactly replicate
isn't it you can't replicate the outfield and
you can't replicate where the ball's going but
you can get a bowler running in against the batter
100 and i and i'm definitely can relate my own
experiences i wouldn't have done that at the
start like a few years ago when i first started
here the vast majority of the winter program
would have been very technical i would have been
responsible for working with bowlers of younger
age groups at that point and i would have been
quite fearful of oh no don't go and bowl at the
batter's yet you're not ready like technically
you're not ready i've definitely gone on quite
a a journey with that approach because they've
got a long time to be ready i'd also wonder what
ready actually what it means and what it is but
actually if they're learning and they're developing
and they're solving more problems developing
more solutions to more problems and i think that's
the important part of where i see technical fundamentals
being important they are important because they
provide people with more solutions to more problems
at a more challenging level but we need to create
the problems first for them to understand what
they're actually trying to do to then understand
why they would benefit from developing the ways
in which they can do it further if that makes
sense so rather than creating this quite dualistic
view of it's technique or it's tactical is technical
or tactical no actually can we look at that in
a lens where actually they're one in the same
they come together and we need to create ways
in which we can smartly design practices that
allow people to develop all of that in one really
right let me lob a grenade into all of this then
if you didn't do anything with your pathway from
the end of the season till christmas and then
got them all in on january the first and did
good work there do you think you'd be producing
better cricketers or because there's lots of
other things they can learn through they could
go and play hockey or football or rugby And actually
have that opportunity to freshen up for three
or four months rather than everywhere, not just
at Somerset, everywhere. They do a 12 -month
programme pretty much now, don't they? Yeah,
I hope they wouldn't be better for it because
I'd be doing myself out of a job. As good? No,
I think it comes down to what you're going after,
how you're designing your practices and the purpose
of what you're doing. And I think ultimately,
if you're creating more training opportunities
through the winter for players that are highly
motivated, love the game, are really... engaged
in the practices that they're taking part in.
They're solving problems tactically. They're
working on how they're developing their approach
to do that. They're learning more about the game.
They might have S &C opportunities alongside
that, where, of course, there'll be physical
benefits to playing other sports away from that,
and we would definitely encourage that. It wouldn't
be until much further into their journey at an
academy level, where even at that level, for
the vast majority, we're still encouraging them
to play other sports as well. But younger age
groups, yeah, just get them playing as much as
possible. And we'd be, through the winter, we'd
have players who, they tend to be quite tired
players, but they come on a Sunday and they might
have a football match in the morning and then
they've got their cricket in the afternoon or
vice versa or rugby. And I think that's a huge
benefit in the multi -sport side of that. We
tend to work with the parents in other sports
clubs to be... making sure that that complements
each other but i i would hope that there's still
huge benefits to a start and when we do to get
more more opportunities for players to practice
yeah well whatever you're doing is working because
i've got a bit of a list here of some of the
players that you've had through the pathway who
have gone on to play at the top level very quickly
as well having been in all the way through the
somerset pathway they've come into the first
class game and swam haven't they they've not
sunk they've really done well straight away What
do you think you do to equip players to make
that jump? So you must be doing something. You
might even do it without realising it, but there's
something going on that you manage to get players
to cope well with the higher level and the higher
demands. What do you think you're doing to equip
them so well? It's a really good question. I
think... There's probably a few moving parts
to it, but I think some of them are probably
quite unique to us as a county and the situation
we find ourselves in. And I think that'd be the
same for other people as well. Some of the people
or some of the things you do? Probably some of
the ways that things happen. But for me, one
thing that we're quite deliberate about, if we've
got a player who we think... It's of high potential.
Like trying to stretch them early and provide
them with opportunities to play up age groups
early in their journey is something we're quite
big on. I know someone like James Rue, I think
he made his under -18 pathway debut when he was
14. Not everywhere does that. Some of them deliberately
hold them back a bit, don't they? It takes a
bit of courage, doesn't it, as a coach to throw
them in. It does, and it can create challenges
around. Naturally, there's a lot of people between
that player and the top age of that age group
who therefore probably aren't receiving opportunities.
So it takes managing skillfully with players
and parents in that sense as well at times. But
he'd be a bit of an outlier as well. There'd
be other examples of people who've gone in early
and young. But I think being deliberate with...
with stretching people if you think they're good
enough and it is I think that's an important
part as well like he's obviously a player of
he's an example of of a player with high potential
who you could do that with and survival and thrive
in that environment whereas some people if you're
not sure about them, thrown in an environment
three, four years early might be overstretching
and quite taxing on them. In terms of personality
and character rather than in terms of skill set?
I think both as well. I think personality is
a big part of that. But I think they do have
to have the skills to be able to cope with the
pace of the game at that level because it would
probably be quite far beyond what they're used
to. So I think that would be one thing. I think
another thing... I guess if I think about the
uniqueness to an environment, I think one thing
that's probably created more opportunities in
the last few years than what might have been
before would be, I guess the nature of us having
a very successful T20 men's team would be that
we lose a lot of players to the 100, which then
results in a lot of young players from the academy
or young pros within that squad. receiving a
lot of opportunities to play through the metrobank
competition and one thing i absolutely love about
working here i mean cricket in this this area
is so so relevant and so important to the people
in the area you know you normally have to travel
probably down to exeter or up to bristol professional
sport in in large cities so he's kind of got
this whole part of the community yeah a hundred
percent yeah it's massive you come off the m5
and you got all the signs and all the cricket
signs taking you right off the M5 to the ground.
That just demonstrates, doesn't it, that it is
a big part of Taunton, Somerset and the South
West. Yeah, it's huge and it is the wider South
West as well. I know our commercial team has
done a piece of work recently, I think, that
showed that there were memberships. From postcodes
all over the region, from Devon and Cornwall,
we do a lot with those counties as well. And
we work closely, certainly from a pathway perspective,
as three counties. And you've kind of only got
to look at the makeup of our professional staff
on the men's and women's side to realise how
important the whole region is to us. But the
relevance of cricket in this area means that
when players do get those opportunities in the
Metro Bank competition or what have you, this
year they were playing in front of 5 ,000, 6
,000 people, which is something that's an incredible
experience for them. developmentally and i think
stands them in good stead for when we're in different
formats of the game and we're back at full strengths
and opportunities present themselves for those
players to come into that environment they may
have already had opportunities to play in front
of big crowds massive motivation as well isn't
it if you know that's just around the corner
yeah absolutely and i think so we're big on certainly
for the academy making sure we're doing not too
much but doing quite a lot with our lads and
providing them and the girls as well would receive
similar opportunities obviously last year the
tier one women's status so obviously bringing
the girls' academy from Western Storm and aligning
our pathways, and it's been a really cool project,
but providing the players on academies with a
lot of opportunity, a lot of support, and hopefully
that plays a part in starting to see a lot of
those players transition and play out there on
that rather, well, currently sandy -looking outfield.
Yeah, not at the moment, but I know what you
mean. That is as simple as volume, is it? So
you talk about opportunities for youngsters,
but in its rawest form, that's enough hours of...
hitting balls bowling balls being in a cricket
environment which you take as a given but actually
takes a bit of resource and skill to to offer
them yeah it's probably nuanced as well for certain
people it's individualized for certain players
because it's probably not as simple as just let's
increase the quantity of what we're doing and
hope that that works like it has to be high quality
as well and you might also have players on an
academy i can think of players in the past who
coming back to what we were talking about a second
ago like you'd have players that are decent in
other sports that might have other stuff gone
and elsewhere it might be harder for them with
their school timetables to access and be around
as much so certainly wouldn't be as simple as
let's provide everyone with loads of stuff and
hope that that that does the job like it has
to be high quality but if you can increase the
quality and the quantity of what you're delivering
in a way that still works for the individual
then i think that's that's really important and
hopefully provides them with the best opportunity
and to do that you need a big bank of good coaches
don't you and that's not easy necessarily to
to find or to or to even develop in -house how
do you go about that what do you look at in terms
of when you're after good coaches to work with
your pathway players what do you look for in
good coaches it's a great question i think it
probably it probably differs at different levels
of the pathway and i think a large part of my
role now is obviously supporting the development
of coaches right through our program i've always
been someone based on my personal background
of never having played the game at a high level
it doesn't feel like you need to have played
at the highest level to be able to coach at a
high level that being said i think if you are
that person you have to have a network around
you of people that can talk to players and provide
experiences that they've experienced that are
relevant there has to be some relevance of the
experience of that person at the top end so i
think having people that can relate to that environment
is important but they still have to be really
skillful coaches i think as you work through
younger age groups of the program to be fair
this would be said right through the program
i think things from a coaching perspective that
i'd be really big on how deliberate and how adaptable
are you as a coach? And they're my big two, really.
Deliberate and adaptable. Go on then, tell us
a bit more about that. Well, I think if I flip
that on its head and say, well, what does poor
coaching look like? Okay, for now, and I'll come
back to it. I didn't want to ask that question,
but go on, let's do that. Yeah, no, I'll do it
that way just for now. It's going to be more
entertaining as well. Yeah, well, because I think
it's something that, I mean, there are certainly
challenges in coaching it at times. mean that
this is an easy way to go right but the opposite
of being deliberate would be someone turning
up sessions with no intentions around what they're
actually trying to work with players on but no
real objectives no objectives just going to deliver
a session just gonna it might be we're just going
to have a bat v ball session or just going to
throw some balls at this player and then the
adaptability piece for me would be come hand
in hand with the intention or the deliberateness
right so if you're being deliberate and you know
what you're trying to achieve then actually how
adaptable are you in terms of having different
tools for the job that can allow you to to solve
the problems from a coaching perspective so i
talk about hugging the script so i think what
you're saying there is yeah flexibility you turn
up you've got an idea a purpose yeah and then
for whatever reason that doesn't quite hit the
mark and you need to go off on a tangent and
it's whether you're skillful enough to do that
effectively is that what you're saying 100 if
a a poor version of that was someone who would
be really regimented and rigid to one way of
doing things and if it doesn't work it's the
player's fault yes i think a much healthier and
a better way of viewing things is that actually
we need to be intentional and deliberate with
what we're doing as coaches we need to be clear
on how we're trying to support players and why
ultimately so they're my big two and i think
underpinning that if there is a coach who is
potentially inexperienced but incredibly hungry
to find out more really curious really passionate
about developing themselves and also developing
young people i think they can learn to become
more deliberate and more adaptable over time
quite quickly because the things that underpin
that are their curiosity and their motivation
so if that's not there i think it becomes more
challenging but we're always looking to expand
our program and we're always looking for more
coaches to try and help us do that at times i
think we're finally in a place where we've got
a decent team and a good pool of coaches quite
a package isn't it when you list those you've
basically given us three there haven't you and
that last one we used to just talk about enthusiasm
or passion and now curiosity is a great word
isn't it but are they genuinely interested in
developing themselves and developing the player
and seeing the game developers something that
yeah it's a non -negotiable now really isn't
it with coaches yeah I think so I think you can
definitely see those coaches come through like
people who are I don't know if obsessive is the
right word, but just so curious about everything
and wanting to find out more. Badgers, have you
asked for that? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's
definitely a place for that. Anoraks. That real
love and hunger of the game and supporting people
and seeing and helping players progress. And
at times almost, I think the deliberateness or
the intentionality part of it's important, right?
Because I think I would always challenge coaches
on how well informed are things that are underpinning
the way in which we're doing things, if that
makes sense. So, okay, well, why are we doing
things that way with this player? Is that beneficial
for them in their journey and their development?
Also from an adaptability piece, OK, what methods
have we got to support that player? How might
that differ to the way in which we're supporting
this player? But how well informed are the things
that we're... And that might not be academically
informed. It might be from my experiences as
well. I think there's definitely a time and a
place for both. But it might be from my personal
experience as a coach. I've had a lot of success
when I've done this with this kind of player
and when I've used this type of practice with
players that are in this situation or what have
you. And that might differ to someone else, but
ultimately it can be personally, experientially
informed, I guess, but then also... Yeah, there's
definitely a place for making sure we're looking
at some kind of more robust evidence -based stuff
as well. And I'm certainly quite big on that
as well. One of the reasons it's important, I
suppose, is because the game moves on so quickly.
And if you haven't got that enthusiasm, that
curiosity, and you're still churning out what
was churned out 20 years ago. So where I'm getting
at here is that your 15 -year -old now will need,
in 2035... when they're a 25 year old if i've
got my maths right there some completely different
skills to what they currently need based on what's
gone on in the last 10 years how the game evolves
will mean that coaches have to be curious and
have to be flexible because otherwise they'll
quickly be churning out outdated stuff Yeah,
I completely agree. It's challenging to predict
what that game's going to look like. Well, that's
going on in the next question. Well, I think
it's difficult to do. I think it's very easy
to assume that it'll be faster, more powerful,
more dynamic, a lot more short -format stuff.
And that's because of what's happened the last
10 or 20 years. Yeah, absolutely. And you would
assume that it would continue in that vein. I
don't see a way in which it slows down and reverts
to more attritional, old -school red -ball cricket,
let's say. But I think equally... The best approach
for me is, yes, you need to make sure you're
supporting players and developing that. But I
think it kind of comes back to what we were talking
about earlier around problem solving. If you
are, shout out to Aidan McNulty on this, because
I stole this phrase from him a number of years
ago from a rugby context. But he talks a lot
about skillful, adaptable problem solvers. We've
spoke a lot here about problem solving and the
importance of developing problem solvers. If
the players you are developing, first and foremost,
are solving and engaging with game -based problems,
and they know what they're trying to do, rather
than just the how of how I'm trying to do something
with no context of, so the how being the technique.
If they're not engaging with the problems that
the game's setting them, that isn't going to
support them if they're just doing technical
stuff, I don't think. I think it might be helpful
to a point, but it's not going to be as helpful
as if you can get that balance between I'm a
player now who knows exactly where my direction
of attention needs to be, I know what I'm looking
for, I know what problems I'm trying to solve.
Well, as the game progresses... then I think
that's the kind of player who will become more
skillful and adaptable because they're in a position
to, I guess, remain engaged with the problems
that are being set for them and hopefully be
able to develop solutions to those problems quite
quickly. It seems like a bit of a cop -out that
because I've not really given an answer for what
I think the game will look like in the future.
I think that's, if I was to hazard a guess, it
would be more explosive, more dynamic, more power,
definitely. The game's been on that trajectory
for a while now. but actually how are we developing
the people that can capitalise on whatever way
the game does go to become more effective in
any conditions, any ground dimensions, any surface,
against any kind of opponent, they've got the
solutions to multiple problems. So it's putting
in rock -solid foundations into those players
so they can cope with whatever. circumstances
the game takes them in which will be really interesting
and I suppose with that in mind and your performance
analyst background that actually comes in useful
here but the attention to detail and how you
measure players in each of the areas that you
need to it's interesting isn't it looking over
the years you talk about power and strength and
speed and it's so much more measurable now than
it was 30 years ago are you seeing players on
the pathway churning out better stats better
numbers on those fronts it's a good question
that i'd have to go to our science and medicine
department to find out but i mean i'd hope so
i think obviously the ecb a few years ago brought
in the benchmarks for for the more physical side
of things and i think that's been useful and
you know i think it's important that people have
got a basis or a platform to to go from because
i think they need to right but i also think when
you're dealing with young players it's really
important to know that that can look different
for different people we we all see late developers,
late maturers. I can think of people off the
top of my head who have kind of gone through
a very different journey than what might be perceived
as the norm from a physical development perspective.
and it's still being able to support that player
who might not physically mature until they're
beyond the top end of the pathway, if you know
what I mean. So number crunching and data collection
is good, but if you just slavishly follow that,
it could be potentially you might miss a few
because of that. Yeah, 100%. And I think that's
one area where within the pathway we're quite
big on collecting. data and numbers would be
to inform our growth and maturation stuff but
i think sometimes people's perceptions of that
are where you're just trying to identify all
the big kids that can go on and hit it miles
or all of the six for eight bowlers that definitely
isn't the case i mean it can give you information
on predicted adult height or what stage of maturation
they're currently at but the latter one there
the stage of maturation is a really important
one because ultimately we can all relate to working
with players who six months down the line from
when they were doing stuff really nicely they
might be all over the place in terms of balance
they might be dropping catches that previously
they were catching easily they might just be
doing stuff that seems quite out of character
but if you know that that person's going through
phv and is having a significant period of growth
and all of a sudden things have become a lot
more challenging for them that information can
actually allow you to support their development
more appropriately so that'd probably be one
of the most important areas with from a pathway
perspective where we would collect data it certainly
wouldn't be you know if someone was to get a
rookie contract and come off of an academy they
shouldn't be significantly behind people that
are already in that program they should be starting
at a really nice place when we're making really
important decisions for players how things can
go in the future you need as much context as
possible and a lot of that could be Some of it
might be data and numbers, but some of it might
actually just be sitting down and having conversations
as a group or with the player or with the family
to understand what's going on for that person
at that time, because you might be seeing stuff
in sessions that... seems out of character and
what have you and actually having a better understanding
of things beyond that is is really important
so yeah that's kind of the way i see that right
well you better go and get your hard hat on and
your high -vis jacket and get down into the indoor
school and help get it sorted out is that is
that a part of your remit or you don't have to
get too involved in that i presume you're not
on the scaffolding no thank you thankfully not
no that's um Yeah, it's a bit beyond me that
one. But no, looking forward to getting in there
when it's ready. And yeah, another exciting winter
ahead. Like we've got set up within our pathway
now from a staffing perspective and having some
really good people in some really key roles and
having... the phase lead model that we've gone
to I'm really excited for what the the winter
looks like getting new people in coaches but
also players that re -energizes you doesn't it
whenever you get a new group of people in it
energizes yeah and I think that that naturally
been a really interesting last sort of 12 months
really I've loved it but it's obviously been
the first 12 months in my current role which
obviously is head of pathway coaching and Since
the tier one women's status was announced in
the Western Storm becoming Somerset women, there's
been a huge amount of change at the club and
new people coming from that organisation to our
organisation and a large restructure and different
people in different positions. I think we've
got, I think, 15 full -time roles within our
pathway staff across science and medicine and
coaching and administrative roles as well. 14
of those people were in new roles. last year
or within this the last 12 months so it's been
a huge amount of change but it's really exciting
and and yeah i think we're in a position now
where we can really hopefully have a big winter
and start the next cycle for next year and some
new players like you said some new coaches in
and a lot of energy and I'm really looking forward
to that good stuff well look thanks very much
Griff for taking time out and yeah good to catch
up with you cheers pleasure thanks for coming
down too Andrew Griffiths the head of pathway
at Somerset with Tim Dellor that's it for this
episode of The icoachcricket Podcast thanks
for listening