Thank you. Hello and welcome to this episode
of The icoachcricket Podcast. Richard Johnson
played for England, Middlesex and Somerset before
becoming a coach. For the first time in the 18
years since he retired from playing, he's had
a couple of months off. He was sacked from his
job as head coach at Middlesex mid -season. He's
now getting ready to start a new role coaching
bowlers in the first class game. Tim Dellor's
been to find out how he's doing and what he's
least missed. coaching every day. Mitting and
against seen bowlers which is a big part of being
a fast bowling coach's role in life isn't it?
Does it scare you when you've got someone running
in you've dealt with a lot of seen bowlers over
the years who've got good pace. Is it scary having
just there with your mitt, trying to catch everything,
keep your teeth in? It's certainly getting scarier
the older you get, yes. Last few years in Middlesex,
obviously Tim Murtagh was the bowling coach there,
so I left it up to him to do most of the mitting.
But the occasional time I did it, yeah, it doesn't
get any easier with age, I've got to say. Your
sort of depth perception starts going a little
bit. I think the key is to just make sure you're
catching it outside of your body line, really.
You don't want your body in the way. The balls
wobble a lot, they dip, swing. So you don't want
to be catching it in front of your body. You
want to always move your body out of the way
and try and catch it. to the side of you rather
than at you. You've still got all your teeth
intact and your boyish good looks are still intact.
So that must mean you've got the knack. It's
worth practising, basically, isn't it? As coaches,
we need to spend a bit of time making sure we've
got that skill nailed. Yeah, mitting's the integral
part. Whether it's fielding practice and people
throwing the ball in or whether it's bowlers
running through, yeah, it's something you have
to be good at and obviously combat. And if you
look around the country, some... some do it rather
better than others but there's a few out there
in the past i won't name any names who have had
shin pads on both legs and shin pads on arms
and just try to try to cover up as best they
can and take the hits what a random place to
start our chat i suppose as parts of the job
go that you've not missed in the last couple
of months because it has only been a couple of
months since you were working full -time at middlesex
that probably is pretty high up the list of Things
I'm very happy to let go. That's definitely top,
yeah. That high. Yeah, so we ought to go back
your summer. I mean, it's been quite a monumental
change for you, hasn't it? Because you were busy
working as first team coach at Middlesex and
then one day you weren't. So how have you adjusted
mentally to that change? Yeah, it was three and
a half years of all -consuming, to be honest,
which I loved every minute of. It's something
that, you know, as a kid growing up, if I'd sat
here now at 50 and sort of looked back and go,
well, I played for the age groups at my boyhood
club that my father and my grandfather supported,
got through to play first -class cricket for
them. Came back as an assistant coach and fast
bowling coach and then assistant coach and then
to take over as head coach. Certainly a dream
that became reality. So to sit here now and look
back and say that I've managed to do all that
at my boyhood club. It's amazing to be that,
you know, to have that. Because it's so all -consuming,
it's difficult straight after. But then you realise
there's a bit more. world out there that you
probably haven't explored. And what I mean by
that is I've been in the professional game since
I was 16 years old, pretty much all the way through
to 50. Never experienced a summer, never experienced
a summer holiday, never experienced weekends
with my 10 -year -old and watching him play cricket
and stuff. So, you know, as much as it was tough
to take, every cloud has that silver lining.
It's been amazing to spend a bit of family time
for once in a summer when the weather's decent.
I don't normally ask people this, but I think
I know you well enough to ask you about how tough
it is. So when the phone goes and they say, oh,
thanks ever so much, John, you've done a great
job, but we're going to move in a different direction
from now. And then that next couple of days and
weeks, I mean, it must be pretty grim because
most of us in our working lives don't ever get
that. experience or sensation and especially
you were so wholeheartedly in the role weren't
you I mean you were very I think everybody who's
in those roles has to be otherwise you're not
going to last very long I mean that must be you
said it was tough but emotionally because you've
put everything into that role and trying to make
that team better for years and years yeah three
and a half years tough you know went through
a lot of difficulties during that time as well
so yeah you commit 100 % there's no doubt you
don't really have a day off you know your whole
life is consumed by it and then suddenly it's
not there and it is a very strange strange thing
and also I think that the weirdest thing in sport
is that everybody knows so it's not like Everyone
I know in different industries, they generally
move on to something else pretty swiftly. They've
probably already lined up something and no one
else really knows. And when you talk to them
about their work, they go, oh, I've just moved
to so -and -so. it seems quite seamless but obviously
this is it's a very public one played out in
public yeah everyone knows so you know the phone
calls are there and people are ringing you the
whole time and it you know it's a constant reminder
yeah look it is probably the people that you
miss most because you're again sport is unique
in as much as you're working with the same people
every day very tight -knit you're going through
some highly charged experiences together and
then suddenly you're not with them every day
and i know they're not officially your mates
but you you're bound to be tight with the people
over such a long period of time that that must
be you forget the money and the sort of kudos
of the role and and the actual day -to -day coaching
it must be the Not seeing that same group of
people day in, day out, that must take some adjustment.
Yeah, and I think cricket probably above most
sports, you build stronger relationships because
you spend so much time with them. There's no
other sport that you're spending six, sometimes
even seven days a week for seven months solid
with these people. So you're having breakfast,
lunch, dinner, everything with them. So you do
build strong relationships. And also the fact
that I'd been there before as well and a lot
of the people were there. previously so i've
known them even longer than the three and a half
years so that that's definitely a tough tough
thing but i've stayed in touch with almost all
of them you know i speak to them still coaching
staff there that i know very well i speak to
so those relationships you know the strong relationships
will always always be there i know you're pretty
busy again now already and likely to get busier
from the looks of your diary over the next few
months which is great Can we talk about seam
bowling particularly? Because that's what I really
wanted to get into here. And your philosophy
of coaching seam bowlers, first of all, which
you've done a lot of over many years now. What's
your starting point? When you see a seamer, what's
the first thing you're looking for? It's a really
interesting one because I think that's changed
a lot over 15 years. I think when you first start
fast bowling coaching, you only have your own
experience to go on. it's very easy to start
coaching people how you probably did it and and
your experiences of of what you did then you
do your coaching badges your level three level
four and it gives you insight into more the technical
side and the biomechanical side and and then
you start working with people and you start building
a picture of what you're trying to get from them
and then over years work out what works better
and quicker than other things and i think now
you sort of get to a point where i have a picture
in my head of what i'm looking for but obviously
everybody's different and everyone has their
own way of bowling but some simple sort of fundamental
things you're looking for which is being nice
and tall being rhythmical with long limbs and
flowing and those are the initial sort of things
I think about and then obviously when you take
a bit of video and you have a look at them you
can look in a little bit more detail and a bit
more in depth to how you think you can improve
that cricketer. And ultimately just how fast
the ball comes out and how raw it is. Because
you get some bowlers who run in and technically
everything's bang on to the naked eye, but it
comes out quite slow. And then you get others
who all roar and haven't had much coaching and
it comes out rocket pace. And you think, well,
that's quite exciting, isn't it? Yeah, the rawness
is fun because you think, well, if you can bowl
this quick with no real technical help. support
then yeah i mean that that's that's a great starting
point you know and you refine that but don't
lose it obviously pace bounce lateral movements
that's it yeah absolutely accuracy can come you
can coach accuracy to a degree so repetition
of action which is important for accuracy but
yeah if you've got someone who's got a bit of
raw pace it always puts a smile on your face
to be able to try and develop and help that and
how easy is it to coach someone to be quicker
and I guess that slightly ties in with if they're
very raw then it might be easier than if they're
very coached and you perhaps haven't got as much
wriggle room to put extra yards of pace on a
bowler but do you find if I rocked up with a
17 year old bowler now a seam bowler and said
Johnny I need you to make him a couple of yards
quicker are you confident you will be able to
do that over time? I think There's definitely
ways you can make people quicker. You're not
going to turn someone bowling 78 mile an hour
into 98 mile an hour, but you can certainly add
a couple of miles an hour on here and there and
maybe a little bit more with other people. And
there are certain positions that you get into
that generate and create pace. And I've actually
been working with a company called Dynetic and
Paceflow recently. And it's with Mark King and
Paul Felton at Loughborough and Kevin Shine.
And they've put together an app which helps develop
these fast bowlers. And it's 20 years of research
behind the positions the best in the world have
got into over the last 20 years. And there's
common positions that the quickest bowlers get
into. And it's almost, can you... help younger
players get into those positions, but keeping
their own action. Uniqueness and identity, because
it's such a difficult balance, isn't it? Because
if you've got, I don't know, a list of five positions
an ideal fast bowler gets into, you're not going
to be able to crowbar all five into most bowls
without injuring them, are you? But then I suppose
you can just tinker to maybe get them into three
of the five. That's right, and you don't want
them robotic, you don't want them looking like
they're overcoached, you actually want them natural
and flowing and free. But the positions exist
and the research behind them is there, so you
know the positions. But the great thing about
this app is you can basically re -video it later
and it will give you the breakdown of the improvement.
You know, you can see what's improved and maybe
where sometimes you improve in one aspect, you
lose a little bit of something from somewhere
else. So, you know, you can piece it all together
that way. It's an amazing skill, isn't it, when
you stop and think about it like that. Now, I
always used to think you were the guru of alignment,
but your start point was... where do they start
in the run -up and how do they get through the
crease and is it all the line? You used to draw
nice straight lines and use bits of tape and
thread to show people where on the pitch they
needed to align themselves. I mean, is that still
top of your list pretty much? Yeah, look, it's
still very important because the issue is how
the ball comes out, right? How the ball comes
out the hand. But that's the final point of a
lot of things that happened before. So where
do you start? Well, you start right at the beginning.
And right at the beginning is the top of your
run -up. So if you can reduce the issues from
there, which is, is there a change of direction
getting towards a crease? Are you jumping in,
for example? Are you jumping out? Are your feet
not aligned? Are you getting in too tight to
the stumps and then spinning over? So some of
the issues a lot of bowlers will have can be
quite as simple as getting your run up in the
right place and the right alignment, as you say.
And I remember seeing you make some amazing changes
to bowlers, literally just for the, right, why
don't you start top of your run a couple of yards
wider or even a couple of yards... straighter
and it completely changed how they got through
the crease so it was amazing to watch and you
still think that's uh yeah high priority for
you yeah absolutely as i say start at the beginning
are you creating some issues within your action
because of the way you're running in ultimately
and it could be you're running in too slow or
you're running in too fast as well you know you
need that that happy medium and that nice point
where You get the flow and you get the rhythm
and you get enough speed in the run -up to be
able to propel the ball down as quick as you
can. And how much in years recently has what
we want from our scene bowlers changed? So obviously
the England trend is six foot five plus, lots
of bounce, lots of pace, blast them out. Clearly
the control is still there, but that's been the
theme, I think, recurring theme for the men's
team. england requirements and you mentioned
about height earlier on in an answer and actually
you yourself a decent height aren't you but perhaps
weren't express pace is that fair you were more
about i think you were more about the swing the
lateral movement the control i would say is that
fair uh i would say a good pace but yeah you're
trying to backtrack not really no two miles an
hour in a final question that clock 2001 I have
mitted for you, by the way. You won't remember.
That was when I was retired, though. You're off
one leg. Look, I think with England at the moment,
I think it's been there ever since I can remember.
I mean, England have always wanted some fast
bowlers and we've produced some great ones over
the years. But particular characteristics now,
it seems to be very clear, the identity of a...
or make up of a scene bowler now. 2005 was the
same, wasn't it? You know, with Harmison, Freddie.
No, they were quite varied though, weren't they?
With Jones. Yeah, but they were all still quick,
weren't they? But yes, some tall, some shorter.
So you want some, you want a varied attack, don't
you? If you look at Australia's attack, it's
a varied attack. So you get people who... can
generate bounce and feel like they almost get
pace off the wicket a bit like Cummins does you
know and then you get other guys who are quick
through the air and some are taller and bouncier
so you know trying to find a bowling attack that
can compete on all surfaces all around the world
is probably the biggest thing. Yeah I think that's
what I was getting at really so there's still
a place for a skinny shorter seam bowler as much
as there is a taller bowler and raw express pace
and then someone who hoops it around corners
yeah different wickets require different skill
sets really and the best bowlers in the world
can adapt but you still it's easier if you've
you need bounce that you're taller but you know
on flatter wickets sometimes you need a bit more
airspeed so take the pitch out the equation so
yeah a varied a varied pace attack is always
useful it's something you know going to australia
would always be Something that we would look
to do as an England side is tall and bouncy and
quick on those sort of wickets. I was going to
ask you about that in a moment, go to Australia.
And the other part of increasingly with white
ball cricket is the other element to a Seam Boulders
game. So most of them have to be able to bat
to a decent level of competence now, don't they?
I don't know if that's increased over the years.
Yeah, I think so. From an England point of view,
we've always wanted bowlers who can bat. And
sometimes we've probably gone the other way where
more of a batter who can bowl a bit. But I think
now, you know, even 9, 10, 11, you want some
sort of contribution from them. And to be honest
now, there's probably no excuse with academies
producing cricketers for counties that should
be three -dimensional, bat, bowl and field. Coming
into the first -class game, even in the last
sort of three and a half years, you want your
9, 10, 11 to be able to make a contribution.
Because the longer your batting lineup is, obviously
the more runs you can put on the board. But if
you do have trouble up top, you can still put
a competitive score on the board. And they sometimes
have to go into massive pressure situations,
don't they? We saw that in the fifth test against
India, didn't we? At the tail end there, where
they had to chip off a fairly low score on that
last day and couldn't manage it. Other days they
will manage it, but they have to sometimes face
extreme pressure. Maybe, arguably, even more
pressure than the top end batters sometimes.
But it doesn't feel necessarily like the pressure
because it's your second skill, but it's more
fun. It sounds weird, but you're expected to
take your wickets and you get your fifers and
it's brilliant, but if you're there at the end...
Winning a test match or winning a game of cricket
for your team as a bowler, scoring the winning
runs, it's a great feeling. And what do you see
the future for seam bowlers being with the white
ball becoming the franchise cricket around the
world? It's such a different skill back in the
1980s and 90s with the West Indies seam attack
running in with a red ball to now guys who can
bowl, get two or three overs out, four overs
at most. It is a different skill, but it can
lead to your action deteriorating because of
it. Because you're not bowling enough? Yeah,
one, you're probably not bowling enough, so the
rhythm sort of side of things, but also some
of the slower balls that they bowl, some of the
Yorkers obviously, your action changes slightly.
You're trying to use the crease a little bit
more. You might be pulling off. you're actually
a little bit to try and get your yorker in at
leg stump or wide of left handers off stump your
body position changes quite often in your bowling
technique and if you're only playing franchise
cricket i know you're playing white ball cricket
some bad habits can creep in so actually a bit
like the batters as well right and it's quite
weird because even when i've been at surrey and
middlesex bowling coach when the players come
back from franchise cricket i generally put a
red ball in their hand and i quite often get
the well, I'm not playing Red Bull cricket, I'm
going back into another franchise game. But we
put a Red Bull in there because straight away,
mentally, you start feeling, well, I've got to
get back tall in my action, I've got to get my
fingers behind the ball, see the ball swing again,
hit a nice line of length. And it sort of corrects
all those little faults that maybe have crept
into your action. And with youngsters, so let's
go back to our 17, 18 -year -olds, is there a
danger that they spend too much time practising
the funky stuff? the white ball stuff at the
expense of a stock ball with a red ball in their
hand because again when you were growing up you'd
have just practiced with a red ball i assume
and now you spend a lot of time at the top end
of the game watching them playing white ball
cricket. It's a danger they don't spend enough
time on the fundamentals. It's definitely a fine
line and I think for repetition of action which
is your accuracy and getting used to bowling
and hitting a line of length and obviously putting
a red ball in your hand and doing that is really
important especially for youngsters but you also
don't want to stop youngsters exploring the fun
of playing white ball cricket. You look at all
the batters now my son at 10 years old going
down and trying to play a reverse switch hit
and you're thinking my god you know I was...
I was probably 18 playing at Middlesex and if
I'd even played a sweep shot in the net, I would
have been called out. Mike Gatting would have
surely been alright with that, wouldn't he? No,
he really wouldn't. So you don't want to stop
them because that's the fun of the game and you
want them to enjoy exploring. But there is obviously
fundamentals and basics that you need to instill
as well. Was Gap in charge of Middlesex when
you first started there or have I just aged you?
No, no, he was captain. He was a very good sweeper,
wasn't he? Don Bennett, bless him, was the coach.
You're older than I thought. Yeah. Right. I'm
older than you. Only just. And just to finish
up about the Ashes coming up. It's just massive
now, isn't it? An Ashes series. Are you excited,
looking forward to it? I am. still the biggest
series is now I mean we had a magnificent series
against India recently and they're a great side
and it was brilliant to watch but there's just
something about England Australia and the Ashes
especially over there so Can't wait to see it.
I think it's going to be really interesting cricket
over the next couple of months, I think. Who
wins for you? That's a very good question. England,
of course. Really? You think you've got every
chance? It's difficult down there, isn't it?
It's incredibly difficult. And if you look at
the amount of wins we've had over the last 20
years, it's not that many. But now's as good
a time as any. I think Aussie's batting line
-up is a bit more experimental than it has been.
It's not as set in stone as it has been in the
past. And I think we've taken... over a good
bowling attack to be able to cope with conditions
out there and take wickets. So I think it could
be a really close series, but I'm edging towards
England. A couple of things. So first of all,
there are a few England players with things to
prove. So it's unbelievable, isn't it, in the
build -up? Well, I've been asked all this morning
about how it's his last thing he needs to achieve
in the game is score 100 in Australia. And you
think, really? Root's done everything. But he
obviously... may use that as a driving factor
i've no idea and and stokes obviously would love
to be captain of a team that wins down there
and some of the big guns have something to prove
as a motivation whereas in some other series
perhaps they've already done everything yeah
and they're going there you know feeling good
about themselves and playing how they want to
play. So, look, the Aussies will always bring
out the best in big players, and I think those
big players will stand up, and I think you'll
see Ruti have a brilliant series this time around.
Yeah, so that's one thing, and the other thing
is you need a bit of luck, don't you? I mean,
you need Pat Cummins maybe to miss more than
just the first test match, and you need... We
remember McGrath tripping over the ball was crucial
in 2005, wasn't it? You need a lucky break somewhere,
don't you? We don't often talk about it, but
it does often come down to a bit of luck here
and there. Yeah, and also from your own team
as well, not getting injuries and losing key
players at the wrong times and stuff. Look, skill
and motivation and preparation, all those things
obviously add towards it, but you always need
that little bit of luck on the side, especially
going somewhere like Australia, where we know
how tough it is. You only have to look at the
record of us going over there. The nature of
the tour being so long. I think I'm right in
saying you didn't do an Ashes tour, did you?
You did other tours in England, but not an Ashes
tour. It's pretty intense, isn't it? Even wherever
you go, regardless of it being Australia, which
obviously adds to it. But it's a long time you're
away for and you're in everyone's pocket all
the time. And it wouldn't be for everybody. And,
you know, being Australia, you'll get flack left,
right and centre wherever you go. So Australia
is one of those places you can, you know, days
off, you can get away from the game and you can
relax and get away to it from a certain degree.
The Aussies are very good at bashing you and
reminding you of what you're there for. Did you
go to Asia? I went to India, yeah. Yeah, okay.
So, I mean, on a trip like that with England,
you don't get a huge amount of downtime where
you can just head out the hotel and... and chill
out if you're in india or sri lanka no not at
all you are literally hotel or or uh cricket
ground for the whole time so it makes it definitely
feel longer so yeah but australia as i say south
africa place like you can go out and about but
you will be reminded in australia constantly
while you're there and they'll be bashing the
lads uh left right and center and is that a factor
because we've already said it's very hard to
win away winning in australia and equally australians
to be fair find out I think, hard to win here.
Is it that hotel lock -in mentality and being
on top of each other all the time, being away
from home for a long period of time that makes
a difference? Or is it just different pitches
and different grounds and different conditions
that gives the home team such an advantage? Yeah,
I think it's more conditions, what you're brought
up in, what you get used to, what you play, all
your grade cricket, your kids' cricket through.
You just know how to play in those conditions
and it does take... A little change sometimes
in technique or mentality or just approach when
you go to different places around the world.
I suppose cricketers are used to being, even
if you just play domestically, you're still used
to being away from home a lot. Yeah, absolutely.
Way more than footballers. To be fair, it'll
affect some people more than others, there's
no doubt. The mental health stuff will come into
some people on those trips because they don't
like being away from home for that long. Ultimately,
I think the conditions and environment are probably
the biggest factor. We're more aware now, maybe,
of those mental health issues, aren't we? I think
Marcus Triscothic perhaps put it in the spotlight
first of all. We're more in touch with homes.
I don't know if that makes it easier or harder
to be a tourist, the fact that you can pick up
your phone and get on FaceTime back home 24 -7,
whereas... Back in your day, you were on the
boat for six weeks to get out there and it was
a telegram home. Not quite sure I was on the
boat, but plenty of aircraft. You know what I
mean? Home seems closer and yet it makes it more
difficult in some ways because you're more connected.
That's right. And I remember being in hotel reception,
making a phone call back to England and having
to pay all your money to the hotel reception,
just saved up your meal money just to pay for
a phone call back home. But yeah, I suppose then...
you're concentrating your job in hand and home
feels like a long way away. But as you say, sometimes
with FaceTime and stuff, you feel more connected,
which is brilliant, but also probably makes you
feel like you're missing it more. So there is
definitely a two -edged sword to that one. Richard
Johnson there, and good luck to him in his next
coaching activities. That's it for this episode
of The icoachcricket Podcast. Thanks for listening.