WEBVTT 00:00:03.550 --> 00:00:06.669 Welcome to The icoachcricket Podcast. In this 00:00:06.669 --> 00:00:08.830 episode, Tim Dellor's been to Millfield School 00:00:08.830 --> 00:00:11.470 in Somerset, home to former England and Somerset 00:00:11.470 --> 00:00:14.089 coach Mark Garaway. When he's not working with 00:00:14.089 --> 00:00:16.710 the peoples there, he's busy with the ECB coach 00:00:16.710 --> 00:00:19.030 development's prestigious Level 4 programme. 00:00:19.309 --> 00:00:21.190 Tim and Garaway have worked together for many 00:00:21.190 --> 00:00:23.129 years and got a bit nostalgic sitting at the 00:00:23.129 --> 00:00:26.489 school during the off -season. Millfield, sprinklers 00:00:26.489 --> 00:00:28.609 on if you listen really carefully. And what a 00:00:28.609 --> 00:00:30.710 great spot. I've always enjoyed your office because 00:00:30.710 --> 00:00:33.049 you've got this fantastic glass -fronted pavilion 00:00:33.049 --> 00:00:35.630 and you can see Glastonbury Tour in the distance. 00:00:35.750 --> 00:00:37.490 It's a great spot. Yeah, you've got the tree 00:00:37.490 --> 00:00:39.630 here as well. We've seen every cricketer that's 00:00:39.630 --> 00:00:41.450 ever played on this ground. It's got a bit of 00:00:41.450 --> 00:00:44.170 them in the route system, I call it, but yeah, 00:00:44.229 --> 00:00:46.929 it's the best view on campus and it's probably 00:00:46.929 --> 00:00:48.950 the best view for a long way. Do I remember you 00:00:48.950 --> 00:00:51.549 doing a picture every morning of the Glastonbury 00:00:51.549 --> 00:00:53.689 Tour and how it changed over the seasons? I do 00:00:53.689 --> 00:00:56.509 it from over there. So I take a picture and if 00:00:56.509 --> 00:00:58.609 you can imagine, I've been here nearly 15 years 00:00:58.609 --> 00:01:01.560 now. So I've seen all sorts of weather conditions. 00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:04.140 Obviously, the trees lose their leaves and then 00:01:04.140 --> 00:01:06.400 they come back and the sun comes from different 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:08.900 spots. And yeah, it's pretty cool. So on the 00:01:08.900 --> 00:01:11.439 day that I leave, I'll do the top 100 pictures 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:13.540 from my time here. Let's hope that's a long way 00:01:13.540 --> 00:01:16.120 away. You're not older than me, surely. Well, 00:01:16.200 --> 00:01:19.120 I'm 52. Are you? I thought you were younger than 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:20.799 me. Yeah, yeah. I'm just youthful in the way 00:01:20.799 --> 00:01:22.260 I go about stuff. You have an easier life than 00:01:22.260 --> 00:01:24.260 me. Correct. Comfortable lifestyle down here. 00:01:24.459 --> 00:01:26.000 Actually, I was going to go back because younger 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:29.659 listeners won't necessarily remember. your coaching 00:01:29.659 --> 00:01:32.019 from it's 20 years ago 25 years ago when you 00:01:32.019 --> 00:01:34.859 were first linked in with England and Hampshire 00:01:34.859 --> 00:01:37.319 stuff and I mean it was 30 years ago so we've 00:01:37.319 --> 00:01:39.299 just had I mean obviously it's 20 years since 00:01:39.299 --> 00:01:43.959 ashes 2005 and whilst I wasn't really a huge 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:45.640 part of it there I was just dropping in and out 00:01:45.930 --> 00:01:48.109 getting experience at that point and then very 00:01:48.109 --> 00:01:50.769 quickly moved into a more permanent role because 00:01:50.769 --> 00:01:52.670 I was still coaching Somerset at the time but 00:01:52.670 --> 00:01:55.349 I got great insight into training days leading 00:01:55.349 --> 00:01:58.450 up to all of those matches that became so iconic 00:01:58.450 --> 00:02:00.750 and we've had a few dinners and get -togethers 00:02:00.750 --> 00:02:02.670 recently to mark 20 years and it's been really 00:02:02.670 --> 00:02:04.810 great to connect with the lads again. It was 00:02:04.810 --> 00:02:07.209 an amazing time wasn't it? Not just for you but 00:02:07.209 --> 00:02:09.509 for cricket I mean and for the England team particularly 00:02:09.509 --> 00:02:13.150 and you had obviously that Ashes moment or summer 00:02:13.150 --> 00:02:15.439 that you remember but you had that whole west 00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:17.479 indies who hardened you with the million pound 00:02:17.479 --> 00:02:23.219 game yeah i mean of course what a time well it 00:02:23.219 --> 00:02:24.879 was a bizarre thing because I think that was 00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:27.479 a reaction to the IPL wasn't it and England obviously 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:30.860 wanted to keep the players happy and came up 00:02:30.860 --> 00:02:33.039 with this notion and you know it'd be fair to 00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:35.639 say that maybe in hindsight it wasn't a great 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:38.340 union to have created but it was a remarkable 00:02:38.340 --> 00:02:41.159 10 days I remember being over there and just 00:02:41.159 --> 00:02:44.379 being subjected to some really odd type things 00:02:44.379 --> 00:02:48.189 so for example Stanford had this group of advisors 00:02:48.189 --> 00:02:50.909 which literally was the brilliant and great of 00:02:50.909 --> 00:02:53.330 West Indies cricket down the years with Gary 00:02:53.330 --> 00:02:56.759 Sobers and Kirtley and Courtney Walsh and Desmond 00:02:56.759 --> 00:02:59.300 Haynes. I mean, it was literally, Viv was on 00:02:59.300 --> 00:03:02.500 it. The who's who. And I remember being called 00:03:02.500 --> 00:03:05.520 into a meeting where I was representing the England 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:08.340 cricket team around the floodlights because the 00:03:08.340 --> 00:03:10.439 floodlights were capped because it was right 00:03:10.439 --> 00:03:12.659 next to the airport. And every time a ball went 00:03:12.659 --> 00:03:14.819 beyond it, nobody could see where the ball was. 00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:17.620 So I'm in this discussion and I'm basically talking 00:03:17.620 --> 00:03:19.520 with the greatest players that have ever played 00:03:19.520 --> 00:03:21.879 the game. And they're asking me for advice about 00:03:21.879 --> 00:03:23.800 what we should do. So eventually I said, look, 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:25.500 I think if it's... If there's any way for the 00:03:25.500 --> 00:03:28.080 final, the big game, the million -dollar -a -man 00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:29.979 game, that you can get the floodlights down, 00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:32.419 take the caps off, negotiate with the airport 00:03:32.419 --> 00:03:34.939 that there's no flights going in and out, then 00:03:34.939 --> 00:03:36.639 we can play the game, because you never want 00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:39.159 the last ball of a game. six to win the ball 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:41.300 going up in the air and somebody clanging it 00:03:41.300 --> 00:03:42.960 over the fence because they couldn't see it I 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:45.340 mean that would be terrible and then I've got 00:03:45.340 --> 00:03:47.300 all the absolute legends of the game just all 00:03:47.300 --> 00:03:49.500 nodding their heads in appreciation and we got 00:03:49.500 --> 00:03:52.939 that done but yeah crackers as a coach I mean 00:03:52.939 --> 00:03:55.180 that was an amazing learning experience not the 00:03:55.180 --> 00:03:57.120 Stanford series a little bit. What's happened 00:03:57.120 --> 00:03:59.780 there? I don't know. I mean, it was a good story, 00:03:59.860 --> 00:04:01.219 but I didn't really think it was that good. Getting 00:04:01.219 --> 00:04:03.360 around on the floors and downstairs. Look, the 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:04.979 Stanford thing must have been an amazing experience, 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:08.479 but that whole time for you, you must have had 00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:11.020 a lot of great learning, not necessarily about 00:04:11.020 --> 00:04:13.080 how to hit a ball out of the park or how to bowl 00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:16.339 a few yards quick. generally about management 00:04:16.339 --> 00:04:19.279 and leadership and communication and all those 00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:22.540 soft skills that have been so useful since? Oh, 00:04:22.660 --> 00:04:24.660 without a shadow of a doubt. And I think probably 00:04:24.660 --> 00:04:27.540 the biggest learner was going to Australia and 00:04:27.540 --> 00:04:30.560 trying to defend the Ashes and just counteracting 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:35.019 such a hostile environment, not just on the field 00:04:35.019 --> 00:04:36.839 because of the quality of the players that the 00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:39.180 guys were going up against, but just everything 00:04:39.180 --> 00:04:41.079 from the moment you get off the plane through 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:44.240 to the porter refusing to take your bags or... 00:04:44.389 --> 00:04:46.589 making stuff awkward at customs or whatever. 00:04:46.769 --> 00:04:50.230 It was just a really hostile place. And to see 00:04:50.230 --> 00:04:53.389 young players, people like Alistair Cook, for 00:04:53.389 --> 00:04:55.709 example, on his first Ashes tour, occasionally 00:04:55.709 --> 00:04:57.910 stand up within the heat of that battle, you 00:04:57.910 --> 00:05:00.569 know, it gave you a real insight into what he 00:05:00.569 --> 00:05:04.269 was going to do, futuristic captain and breaking 00:05:04.269 --> 00:05:06.709 all the records and all of that sort of malarkey. 00:05:06.769 --> 00:05:08.750 It was really great to see people stand up in 00:05:08.750 --> 00:05:11.709 those really tough environments. And I certainly 00:05:11.709 --> 00:05:14.220 grew as a coach because I got to see what, probably 00:05:14.220 --> 00:05:15.879 the best cricket that's ever been played looked 00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:18.899 like, and what underpins that in terms of humanistic 00:05:18.899 --> 00:05:20.879 stuff so I could support players going forward. 00:05:20.980 --> 00:05:22.720 You mentioned the IPL, but another thing is you 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:24.399 were quite lucky with the timing because it was 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:27.800 when modern cricket was being born. Is that fair? 00:05:27.939 --> 00:05:29.459 Because if it had been 10 years before that, 00:05:29.579 --> 00:05:31.540 I reckon a lot of those experiences would have 00:05:31.540 --> 00:05:33.639 been quite irrelevant. But because of, well, 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:37.519 Stanford and IPL, for instance, or the now hostility 00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:39.879 between Australia and England, which you could 00:05:39.879 --> 00:05:42.490 argue. existed during the 80s and 90s as well 00:05:42.490 --> 00:05:44.569 but it's reached a whole new level and social 00:05:44.569 --> 00:05:47.410 media coming in and television the way they deal 00:05:47.410 --> 00:05:49.850 with it was the start of the modern era really 00:05:49.850 --> 00:05:52.209 wasn't it completely and it's completely changed 00:05:52.209 --> 00:05:53.769 the game you know when you look back actually 00:05:53.769 --> 00:05:56.209 at 05 and all the great cricket that was played 00:05:56.209 --> 00:05:58.649 you know just to see the physical shape of people 00:05:58.649 --> 00:06:00.930 has changed the things that people do on the 00:06:00.930 --> 00:06:03.149 cricket pitch the expectations are very different 00:06:03.149 --> 00:06:05.029 and obviously we've got the way that England 00:06:05.029 --> 00:06:07.850 play even test cricket now is is very different 00:06:07.850 --> 00:06:10.779 and demands on the on the mind on the body are 00:06:10.779 --> 00:06:13.139 vastly different to those that we used to prepare 00:06:13.139 --> 00:06:15.339 people to go into battle back in those days and 00:06:15.339 --> 00:06:17.759 social media is brilliant because you know i 00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:20.100 work with players between the ages of sort of 00:06:20.100 --> 00:06:23.839 12 and 18 here well a lot of the learning now 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:26.680 isn't through my knowledge that it would have 00:06:26.680 --> 00:06:28.800 been back in the day, you know, when I was coaching. 00:06:28.819 --> 00:06:31.019 Yeah, absolutely. When I was coaching Geoff Butler 00:06:31.019 --> 00:06:34.100 when he was 12, 13, it would have been very much 00:06:34.100 --> 00:06:37.000 me giving information. And now it's using different 00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:39.639 resources to open up people's learning. Because 00:06:39.639 --> 00:06:41.540 most of the kids, you know, you can fire through 00:06:41.540 --> 00:06:43.579 a bit of footage or they fire through a bit that 00:06:43.579 --> 00:06:45.339 they've seen and they admire and they want to 00:06:45.339 --> 00:06:48.300 go after. And it's a very different way of working. 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:50.339 But it's, yeah, you've just got to be agile with 00:06:50.339 --> 00:06:52.819 it as a coach and go with it and embrace it. 00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:54.399 Well, let me turn the tables then, because you 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:56.459 do loads for coach development. now at the ECB 00:06:56.459 --> 00:06:58.259 and I reckon you've probably asked this question 00:06:58.259 --> 00:07:01.620 loads of times to vivas or vivas I've never known 00:07:01.620 --> 00:07:06.279 which and various interview moments but how would 00:07:06.279 --> 00:07:08.560 you describe yourself as a coach now after all 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:10.819 these experiences that you've gained on the circuit 00:07:10.819 --> 00:07:13.939 well I think actually I'm sort of more of a consultant 00:07:13.939 --> 00:07:17.199 and facilitator now largely than a coach yeah 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:20.439 all what people would seem to be a coach but 00:07:20.439 --> 00:07:23.139 I take you back to Duncan Fletcher who was my 00:07:23.139 --> 00:07:25.670 first head coach with England He called us all 00:07:25.670 --> 00:07:28.230 consultants back in the day. And Bob Warmer was 00:07:28.230 --> 00:07:29.970 similar to that. And I was lucky enough to be 00:07:29.970 --> 00:07:32.129 coached by Bob Warmer a bit in South Africa. 00:07:32.269 --> 00:07:34.970 And I knew him throughout the last stages of 00:07:34.970 --> 00:07:38.149 his life. And he would deem himself to be a consultant. 00:07:38.310 --> 00:07:40.129 So I don't think we're any further away from 00:07:40.129 --> 00:07:41.910 that. I think what that looks like on a day -to 00:07:41.910 --> 00:07:44.490 -day basis has shifted because of the resources 00:07:44.490 --> 00:07:47.470 and our understanding of how people learn, which 00:07:47.470 --> 00:07:50.069 has shifted significantly. It was very generic, 00:07:50.129 --> 00:07:51.610 wasn't it, learning? You pick your back up like 00:07:51.610 --> 00:07:54.339 that, you step forward like that. understand 00:07:54.339 --> 00:07:56.240 that people do things differently and that's 00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:58.519 the benefit of having you know we can watch every 00:07:58.519 --> 00:08:00.300 test match in the world on our televisions now 00:08:00.300 --> 00:08:02.480 whereas we used to get six months where we would 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:04.120 see test matches and then we'd have to listen 00:08:04.120 --> 00:08:06.680 to it on the radio so that all of that stimulus 00:08:06.680 --> 00:08:08.899 has changed the way that people take on learning 00:08:08.899 --> 00:08:12.040 and also is influencing the way as coaches we 00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:14.300 have to interact with learning styles and differences 00:08:14.300 --> 00:08:18.399 to get the best out of players. Being a coach 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:21.500 and a title of a coach, what you might do with 00:08:21.500 --> 00:08:24.540 an under -12 group is so different to what Brendan 00:08:24.540 --> 00:08:26.540 McCullum's doing or Charlotte Edwards is doing 00:08:26.540 --> 00:08:29.819 with their teams. It doesn't seem right that 00:08:29.819 --> 00:08:31.839 they're called the same thing because your role's 00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:33.379 totally different, isn't it? So that's interesting 00:08:33.379 --> 00:08:36.320 that you've picked up and you're almost redefining 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:39.340 what the guys working at the top end are actually 00:08:39.340 --> 00:08:41.360 doing. But there still needs to be a connection, 00:08:41.580 --> 00:08:44.240 doesn't there? Yeah. I think. And so that's the 00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:47.120 art, I reckon, is looking at every group. you 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:49.500 got and you know my dad who was a brilliant coach 00:08:49.500 --> 00:08:51.139 in his own right always used to say the most 00:08:51.139 --> 00:08:53.419 important person you'll ever coach is the person 00:08:53.419 --> 00:08:55.200 that's standing next to you or in front of you 00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:57.799 in that moment yeah that stayed with me and that's 00:08:57.799 --> 00:08:59.539 always been with me it's one of that event the 00:08:59.539 --> 00:09:03.279 cricket club yeah yeah absolutely correct yeah 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:06.120 back back in the day but he he taught me that 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:08.759 and i think that still stands up so that under 00:09:08.759 --> 00:09:10.860 12 group it could be a different under 12 group 00:09:10.860 --> 00:09:12.600 from last year's and that's the exciting bit 00:09:12.600 --> 00:09:15.139 of working in this space now is that each cohort 00:09:15.139 --> 00:09:17.539 has its own nuance and its own difference and 00:09:17.539 --> 00:09:19.759 its own previous level of experience. So you're 00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:21.970 never coaching the same team. Because always 00:09:21.970 --> 00:09:23.929 three or four people go out the end of it because 00:09:23.929 --> 00:09:26.710 they graduate and go into university or go into 00:09:26.710 --> 00:09:29.049 men's professional cricket or just go off on 00:09:29.049 --> 00:09:31.129 their travels or whatever the case may be. So 00:09:31.129 --> 00:09:33.370 you're always constantly reinventing yourself 00:09:33.370 --> 00:09:36.450 to be able to interact with the people that they're 00:09:36.450 --> 00:09:38.809 faced with. And I think that was, you know, where 00:09:38.809 --> 00:09:40.970 we look back at great leaders and great managers 00:09:40.970 --> 00:09:43.970 and coaches. One of Sir Alex Ferguson's greatest 00:09:43.970 --> 00:09:46.950 attributes was his agility to be able to shift 00:09:46.950 --> 00:09:49.529 and change, even though probably his values and 00:09:49.529 --> 00:09:51.919 his beliefs never changed at all. quite deliberately. 00:09:52.379 --> 00:09:54.419 Got new groups through, didn't he? So that he 00:09:54.419 --> 00:09:56.860 could recycle and reinvent it. And he changed 00:09:56.860 --> 00:09:59.059 the coaching groups that were around him to create 00:09:59.059 --> 00:10:01.539 different stimuluses all the time. And in response 00:10:01.539 --> 00:10:03.519 to the way that football was developing at that 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:05.740 time, and more foreign players were coming in 00:10:05.740 --> 00:10:08.220 and everything that did. So I think we're in 00:10:08.220 --> 00:10:10.620 the same space with cricket, is that we've got 00:10:10.620 --> 00:10:12.820 so many different influences now. And you've 00:10:12.820 --> 00:10:14.659 got to be agile and go with that. You mentioned 00:10:14.659 --> 00:10:17.399 your dad there. Was he a big influence on you 00:10:17.399 --> 00:10:20.080 and your coaching and what you do now? I think, 00:10:20.139 --> 00:10:22.669 yeah, definitely. I mean, he was my first version 00:10:22.669 --> 00:10:24.549 of what a coach looked like. And typically, as 00:10:24.549 --> 00:10:27.210 any son and father, I probably listened to him 00:10:27.210 --> 00:10:29.330 less than anybody else. So the likes of Danny 00:10:29.330 --> 00:10:31.470 Briggs would have listened much more to my dad 00:10:31.470 --> 00:10:33.750 than I ever did. And as a consequence, ended 00:10:33.750 --> 00:10:35.730 up being a significantly better cricketer as 00:10:35.730 --> 00:10:38.750 a consequence. But certainly, the way that he 00:10:38.750 --> 00:10:40.909 went around coaching, the simplistic way he went 00:10:40.909 --> 00:10:43.230 around it, I thought was great. And that came 00:10:43.230 --> 00:10:45.169 from his teaching background and his head teaching 00:10:45.169 --> 00:10:47.730 background. So things like, you know, he used 00:10:47.730 --> 00:10:50.990 to say the three W's. And he was three W's. are 00:10:50.990 --> 00:10:53.629 obviously the great West Indians, but also is 00:10:53.629 --> 00:10:57.129 watch it, wait for it and whack it, which is 00:10:57.129 --> 00:10:59.889 a lovely simplistic thing. And it still stands 00:10:59.889 --> 00:11:01.730 true, doesn't it? 100%. It probably stands true 00:11:01.730 --> 00:11:03.730 even more now because of the nature of cricket. 00:11:03.990 --> 00:11:05.690 You're more whacking it. Yeah, there's more whacking 00:11:05.690 --> 00:11:09.230 going on. So if you can take complex things and 00:11:09.230 --> 00:11:11.210 make them simple to the person that's in front 00:11:11.210 --> 00:11:13.230 of you, then that's only going to help learning 00:11:13.230 --> 00:11:15.129 to happen quicker. And do you think as a coach, 00:11:15.190 --> 00:11:16.850 one of the skills that we perhaps don't talk 00:11:16.850 --> 00:11:18.950 about enough is the ability to recall stuff? 00:11:19.149 --> 00:11:20.350 I mean, you're talking about it. like it was 00:11:20.350 --> 00:11:22.529 yesterday, churning out little expressions and 00:11:22.529 --> 00:11:24.950 catchphrases, and that was when you were a kid, 00:11:24.970 --> 00:11:27.409 but also from 20 years ago in your coaching. 00:11:28.940 --> 00:11:30.659 I get the impression the more I speak to different 00:11:30.659 --> 00:11:33.480 coaches, the best are able to transport themselves 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:36.600 back quite a long way and really recall how they 00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:38.960 felt and what they learned from those experiences, 00:11:39.100 --> 00:11:41.919 whereas others maybe breeze through life a bit 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:44.679 too quickly and can't reflect and get all the 00:11:44.679 --> 00:11:46.539 learning out. I mean, you obviously can. You 00:11:46.539 --> 00:11:48.820 can quite easily take yourself back years and 00:11:48.820 --> 00:11:52.840 years. Yeah, I've always been amazed by the power 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:55.379 of storytelling in terms of learning. So I had 00:11:55.379 --> 00:11:58.529 an incredibly... I was rubbish at school. I got 00:11:58.529 --> 00:12:01.909 four GCSEs, but I got an A in history, and I 00:12:01.909 --> 00:12:04.529 did quite well in my history A level. And the 00:12:04.529 --> 00:12:07.289 main reason for that was the stories that Paul 00:12:07.289 --> 00:12:09.789 Thatcher used to tell me in class. And he used 00:12:09.789 --> 00:12:12.120 to make everything come to life. and make everything 00:12:12.120 --> 00:12:14.379 relevant because the stories would land. And 00:12:14.379 --> 00:12:17.240 that was very impactful on me as a learner back 00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:19.440 in the day because that was the only lesson I 00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:22.000 actually properly learnt within. And I suppose 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:24.399 I've taken it into my coaching. Maybe some of 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:25.940 those stories are a bit long -winded and boring 00:12:25.940 --> 00:12:28.440 at times, but occasionally they land with the 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:31.360 person that I'm working with. So technically, 00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:33.639 I'm not really one that says, you know, get your 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:35.879 elbow here and get your foot here. But there's 00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:37.559 some unbelievable stories about the different 00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:40.120 players I've either coached or been around or 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:41.960 read about. So that's quite deliberate because 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:43.759 you do. Now I think about it, you absolutely 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:46.460 are a storyteller when you coach and coach development 00:12:46.460 --> 00:12:48.919 as well. I've heard you. It's not because I like 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:51.500 the sound of my own voice too. No, I wasn't suggesting 00:12:51.500 --> 00:12:55.080 that, Gareth. But it's a sort of proper method 00:12:55.080 --> 00:12:57.080 to try and get the message across. Yeah, so you 00:12:57.080 --> 00:12:59.320 look at something. An American sport is really 00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:01.799 white. So you look at even going back to people 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:04.690 like John Wooden. you know incredible storyteller 00:13:04.690 --> 00:13:08.590 the use of analogies to to make something land 00:13:08.590 --> 00:13:12.370 is really is really powerful um so many belichick 00:13:12.370 --> 00:13:16.190 on rick charlesworth unbelievable coach you know 00:13:16.190 --> 00:13:18.389 across multiple different sports i don't know 00:13:18.389 --> 00:13:20.090 if you read his whole book about shakespeare 00:13:20.090 --> 00:13:21.970 and what it teaches coaching and that's a great 00:13:21.970 --> 00:13:24.850 example of using completely so those sort of 00:13:24.850 --> 00:13:27.929 things i think uh you know really really relevant 00:13:27.929 --> 00:13:30.539 yeah the best coaches tend to do that But it's 00:13:30.539 --> 00:13:32.139 a bit like being a player, isn't it? Underpinning 00:13:32.139 --> 00:13:34.159 that, you've got to have technical knowledge. 00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:36.799 Even though the game has gone in the direction 00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:39.200 it has, you still need to have those fundamentals 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:41.460 in place. So I think the more you understand 00:13:41.460 --> 00:13:44.600 about the game, the better you can design practices 00:13:44.600 --> 00:13:47.299 to do the heavy lifting and the better you can 00:13:47.299 --> 00:13:49.659 integrate your stories to galvanise learning. 00:13:49.879 --> 00:13:52.419 Especially nowadays, because kids and players 00:13:52.419 --> 00:13:54.840 are curious because they're watching one -minute 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:57.879 segments of cricket that's inspiring or creating 00:13:57.879 --> 00:14:00.710 some sort of... curiosity so they can bring it 00:14:00.710 --> 00:14:02.710 to you as well so I was going to ask you if you're 00:14:02.710 --> 00:14:04.529 a fan of that I suppose it's a stupid question 00:14:04.529 --> 00:14:05.590 because it doesn't matter if you're a fan or 00:14:05.590 --> 00:14:07.889 not you can't fight it that is how kids operate 00:14:07.889 --> 00:14:10.309 now isn't it well it helps to condense and you 00:14:10.309 --> 00:14:12.269 know the world's a busy place think back to when 00:14:12.269 --> 00:14:15.129 we were younger the amount of options that we 00:14:15.129 --> 00:14:18.529 had to occupy our time were limited so sitting 00:14:18.529 --> 00:14:20.090 on the side of a cricket ground and watching 00:14:20.090 --> 00:14:22.730 six hours of play with your scorebook was part 00:14:22.730 --> 00:14:25.169 and parcel of growing up because there was very 00:14:25.169 --> 00:14:27.289 little else that could take my time up whereas 00:14:27.289 --> 00:14:30.029 now it's a about one minute segments because 00:14:30.029 --> 00:14:33.610 everybody is so busy. So again, embracing that 00:14:33.610 --> 00:14:36.669 is really important. Can you condense six hours 00:14:36.669 --> 00:14:40.490 into one minute video and get the flavor and 00:14:40.490 --> 00:14:42.309 the nuance of a whole day? Of course you can't. 00:14:42.330 --> 00:14:44.440 But that's where we come in. And we're sitting 00:14:44.440 --> 00:14:46.879 here at Millfield, and this is very much home 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:48.840 for you now, but you're still up and down the 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:50.500 country, you spend a lot of time on the motorways. 00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:53.120 Does that help? Because you see lots of different 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:55.879 coaches, lots of different environments, lots 00:14:55.879 --> 00:14:58.899 of different cultures. I've always been uncomfortable 00:14:58.899 --> 00:15:02.259 with being the oracle, you know, being the main 00:15:02.259 --> 00:15:04.200 guy in anyone's space. The go -to guy. Yeah, 00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:06.799 I find that a very difficult place to be. And 00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:09.019 whilst, you know, in cricket in terms, I'm... 00:15:09.389 --> 00:15:12.470 I'm the most senior one here. I never want to 00:15:12.470 --> 00:15:15.929 be stuck in my way. So through stuff that I've 00:15:15.929 --> 00:15:18.610 done and invitations that I've had, an increasing 00:15:18.610 --> 00:15:20.850 amount of invitations to go into different spaces 00:15:20.850 --> 00:15:23.889 and observe people in other sports, other domains, 00:15:24.110 --> 00:15:27.129 just being really top drawer at what they do 00:15:27.129 --> 00:15:29.690 and having some real idea about why they do the 00:15:29.690 --> 00:15:32.690 things that they do is fascinating and inspirational. 00:15:32.789 --> 00:15:35.809 And I definitely keep bringing back better things 00:15:35.809 --> 00:15:38.649 that I can be doing and my team more importantly. 00:15:38.669 --> 00:15:42.490 they can be doing around us. My ECB role is I 00:15:42.490 --> 00:15:46.139 lead up a few modules in the level four. I have 00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:49.080 done the ECB Level 3 fielding and wicket -keeping. 00:15:49.379 --> 00:15:52.019 Very memorably. Very memorably. I used to regularly 00:15:52.019 --> 00:15:53.620 answer your phone. You're the only person I had 00:15:53.620 --> 00:15:55.820 in my phone. That's why I asked you. I think 00:15:55.820 --> 00:15:57.679 it was just because I could be there for the 00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:00.200 day and it saved money. You were very cheap. 00:16:01.580 --> 00:16:05.279 But I love the Level 4 stuff and the insight 00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:07.320 that that gives me and the opportunity to knock 00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:09.179 about with some incredible people. That's it, 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:10.879 and you learn from all the coaches that go through. 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:12.720 Yeah, so you've got the coaches that go through, 00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:14.220 but also the people that you bring onto your 00:16:14.220 --> 00:16:16.620 courses. So knocking around with Danny Newcomb, 00:16:16.659 --> 00:16:19.120 who's just the most incredible coaching mind 00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:21.580 that you can have that challenges your own thinking 00:16:21.580 --> 00:16:23.980 and the way that you design practice is great. 00:16:24.179 --> 00:16:25.980 I've got a guy called Martin Rothwell that I 00:16:25.980 --> 00:16:28.759 work with in the same space around skill acquisition 00:16:28.759 --> 00:16:32.259 now, which is constantly challenging my view. 00:16:32.379 --> 00:16:35.139 Ian Brunchweiler, who was my understudy at Hampshire, 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:39.779 I gleam so much from him. Paul Felton from biomechanics. 00:16:39.799 --> 00:16:41.379 All of these guys that you're knocking around 00:16:41.379 --> 00:16:44.000 with, it's incredible. And that's no surprise. 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:45.700 It's because they're all really good at what 00:16:45.700 --> 00:16:47.639 they do and they've got reputations. But do you 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:50.080 sometimes find, and I'm speaking from my own 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.759 experience really, you get surprised sometimes 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:55.940 by where and from whom you learn stuff. So it 00:16:55.940 --> 00:16:58.480 can be, it almost takes you off guard. You can 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:01.259 get learning in the most bizarre circumstances 00:17:01.259 --> 00:17:03.120 that is relevant to coaching. And that's why 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:04.880 these courses are great because these courses 00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:06.799 bring people from different walks of life and 00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:09.180 different levels of the game. But they bring 00:17:09.180 --> 00:17:11.279 in some incredible experiences. And I always, 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:14.670 I love to watch the professional. that goes on 00:17:14.670 --> 00:17:17.210 to a level three or a level four. Sits next to 00:17:17.210 --> 00:17:19.609 a teacher. Sits next to a teacher or somebody 00:17:19.609 --> 00:17:21.710 manages their own business as well as doing some 00:17:21.710 --> 00:17:26.490 coaching on a Friday night. And they, by a few 00:17:26.490 --> 00:17:28.450 days in, they're going, crikey, you know, I'm 00:17:28.450 --> 00:17:31.150 learning so much from those experiences because 00:17:31.150 --> 00:17:33.029 they've been coached themselves, but they haven't 00:17:33.029 --> 00:17:35.289 necessarily done that. They've been managed themselves, 00:17:35.470 --> 00:17:38.150 but they've not had a lot of opportunity to manage 00:17:38.150 --> 00:17:41.569 other people. And they pick up so much. So I 00:17:41.569 --> 00:17:43.640 think that's so relevant. Straussie and myself 00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:46.359 used to go out to St Lucia and do some coaching 00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:49.380 over there and every year we'd have parents would 00:17:49.380 --> 00:17:52.680 come in and bring their kids over for a week 00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:55.259 of cricket coaching with us and being on holiday 00:17:55.259 --> 00:17:58.440 it was great absolutely awesome and one day this 00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:00.519 guy came up to me and he said oh Gary it's lovely 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:02.720 to meet you I've listened to loads of things 00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:04.200 that you've done and been to some conferences 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:06.180 just let you know I'm a level two coach so if 00:18:06.180 --> 00:18:07.859 you want a hand at any stage over the course 00:18:07.859 --> 00:18:10.940 of a week I'd love to I said come on board Jim 00:18:10.940 --> 00:18:13.309 come on board absolutely brilliant, no problem 00:18:13.309 --> 00:18:14.849 at all, come in and do what you want. He was 00:18:14.849 --> 00:18:17.390 awesome. He was absolutely awesome. And then 00:18:17.390 --> 00:18:19.369 over the week, I'm thinking, I wonder what Jim 00:18:19.369 --> 00:18:21.230 does, because, you know, it'd be fascinating 00:18:21.230 --> 00:18:23.750 to find out what he does. So I said, oh, what 00:18:23.750 --> 00:18:25.490 do you do? He said, oh, well, basically, I do 00:18:25.490 --> 00:18:28.890 jobs that I can do for like 45, 50 hours a week, 00:18:28.910 --> 00:18:30.769 which creates time for me to go and be a football 00:18:30.769 --> 00:18:33.660 coach in the winter. and a cricket coach in the 00:18:33.660 --> 00:18:36.099 summer. And I said, that's wonderful. I said, 00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:37.880 do you manage many people because you've got 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:40.160 a great way? He said, yeah, we've got X hundred 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:43.259 of people working in the organisation. And as 00:18:43.259 --> 00:18:45.220 it transpired, he was the managing director of 00:18:45.220 --> 00:18:49.819 Costa Coffee. And I learnt so much through that, 00:18:49.900 --> 00:18:53.779 even before I knew that he was managing at that 00:18:53.779 --> 00:18:56.119 level and doing such an incredible thing in Europe 00:18:56.119 --> 00:18:59.660 with such a big company. It was obvious that 00:18:59.660 --> 00:19:01.519 he was a high performer in his own right. The 00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:03.900 value these people have to the game, even if 00:19:03.900 --> 00:19:06.180 they are able to just drop in for three hours 00:19:06.180 --> 00:19:08.519 of a club night once a week in the summer is 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:12.019 invaluable, isn't it? It is. And so I get inspired 00:19:12.019 --> 00:19:14.460 by those types of people because you can learn 00:19:14.460 --> 00:19:17.480 so much. And I see on the courses that we run 00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:21.180 that the same curiosity and interest I have is 00:19:21.180 --> 00:19:23.859 also replicated across the cohort. Do you remember 00:19:23.859 --> 00:19:25.759 talking of people you learn a lot from? Keith 00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:27.700 Tomlins, obviously, we both worked with for a 00:19:27.700 --> 00:19:30.359 long time. And there was an occasion where we 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:32.470 were both... I think it was in Antigua, wasn't 00:19:32.470 --> 00:19:34.750 it? Did we go out to Antigua to do a level three 00:19:34.750 --> 00:19:38.289 course? And Tomo got flown out just to do the 00:19:38.289 --> 00:19:41.630 psychology session. And he had a problem with 00:19:41.630 --> 00:19:44.029 his laptop connecting it to the screen. So you 00:19:44.029 --> 00:19:45.809 and I offered to help because we were like the 00:19:45.809 --> 00:19:48.690 young ones who had IT knowledge. And he had a 00:19:48.690 --> 00:19:52.029 lovely 34 PowerPoint slides all set up and he 00:19:52.029 --> 00:19:54.069 spent all the flight going across to get it all 00:19:54.069 --> 00:19:55.650 set up. And this is the only reason he was going 00:19:55.650 --> 00:19:58.269 over to Antigua. And between us, we managed to 00:19:58.269 --> 00:20:00.650 wipe the whole presentation. He lost the whole 00:20:00.650 --> 00:20:02.549 thing, which wasn't particularly helpful to him. 00:20:02.910 --> 00:20:04.809 He was brilliant there, wasn't he? The way he 00:20:04.809 --> 00:20:06.509 dealt with it. Talk about a man under pressure. 00:20:06.569 --> 00:20:08.069 You've got Kirtley Ambrose and Courtney Walsh 00:20:08.069 --> 00:20:09.589 in the group, and he just went for a lap of the 00:20:09.589 --> 00:20:11.589 boundary and then came in and did a barnstorming 00:20:11.589 --> 00:20:13.450 three hours. Yeah, but then that goes back to 00:20:13.450 --> 00:20:15.289 that experience that you talked about, that he'd 00:20:15.289 --> 00:20:17.990 accumulated over time. And, you know, there's 00:20:17.990 --> 00:20:19.869 no doubt that he'd have been absolutely rocking 00:20:19.869 --> 00:20:22.789 when we gave him the news that we'd completely 00:20:22.789 --> 00:20:25.589 undermined what he was about to do. But, again, 00:20:25.650 --> 00:20:28.230 that's a great example of how you manage yourself. 00:20:28.349 --> 00:20:30.259 He took himself. off for a walk he got himself 00:20:30.259 --> 00:20:32.680 back together he probably said right this is 00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:34.480 a situation now you've got to deal with it and 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:36.119 then afterwards I remember him saying actually 00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:38.359 he felt the session was better because he hadn't 00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:40.539 got the powerpoint as a crutch which is again 00:20:40.539 --> 00:20:42.480 learning for all of us which I think which I 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:44.559 think we do anyway don't we I did a session yesterday 00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:47.960 with Molly so I went in with the most outstanding 00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:50.940 plan wrote it all down it was looking absolutely 00:20:50.940 --> 00:20:53.839 fabulous we got about half a bucket in it was 00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:56.299 obvious that wasn't the right time for that session 00:20:56.299 --> 00:20:59.400 so we adapted it completely i got a message from 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:01.160 her mum and dad this morning saying that she 00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:03.480 was absolutely buzzing when she came home last 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:05.079 night and we've got a session actually this afternoon 00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:07.220 where we're going to build on what we did yesterday 00:21:07.220 --> 00:21:10.269 but plans are great and it's a bit like the when 00:21:10.269 --> 00:21:12.170 we went to Sandhurst all those years ago and 00:21:12.170 --> 00:21:14.450 did some stuff up there. It's great to have a 00:21:14.450 --> 00:21:17.869 plan, but it only lasts until the contact with 00:21:17.869 --> 00:21:20.490 the opposition for the first time. And that was 00:21:20.490 --> 00:21:23.410 no different to yesterday. And whenever that 00:21:23.410 --> 00:21:25.210 happens, you've got the choice, haven't you, 00:21:25.269 --> 00:21:27.650 to brute force application, this plan is going 00:21:27.650 --> 00:21:30.640 to work. Or am I going to adapt to what's in 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:33.720 front of me? And certainly that Sandhurst experience 00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:35.900 has helped me to coach Molly yesterday. And that 00:21:35.900 --> 00:21:38.000 psychology in Antigua with Tom, for example, 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:40.380 was a great example of someone who had the skill 00:21:40.380 --> 00:21:43.339 to... flex but I thought the audacity of you 00:21:43.339 --> 00:21:45.599 afterwards to say no I did it deliberately because 00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:49.700 I knew it was frightening I'm not sure I think 00:21:49.700 --> 00:21:51.720 we might have had a beer before I said that um 00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:54.279 yeah so look you've got busy your winter ahead 00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:56.440 no doubt you're going to be charging around coach 00:21:56.440 --> 00:21:59.400 development stuff here yeah so we're always busy 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:01.460 here we just started last week actually we give 00:22:01.460 --> 00:22:03.759 them a bit of time off transition wise yeah how 00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:04.819 important is that by the way because I've been 00:22:04.819 --> 00:22:06.380 talking to other coaches about that giving them 00:22:06.380 --> 00:22:08.500 a bit of time to just freshen up mentally and 00:22:08.500 --> 00:22:10.259 get away from cricket even if it's just for a 00:22:10.259 --> 00:22:12.240 month or two well I think if you look at even 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:14.559 the top players in the world that they they do 00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:18.980 that well they do they they create them some 00:22:18.980 --> 00:22:21.039 years you have to build them in you have to build 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:22.880 them in yeah you have to build them in because 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:25.559 if you don't then it's gonna have a trade -off 00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:29.420 against your ability to be able to play so 100 00:22:29.420 --> 00:22:31.819 % believer of that and when I first got here 00:22:31.819 --> 00:22:35.259 my first day years ago we started straight away 00:22:35.259 --> 00:22:37.380 and I'm like what are we doing in September yeah 00:22:37.380 --> 00:22:39.460 I'm like what are we doing And they said, well, 00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:41.279 we've got to justify our positions. I said, no, 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:43.160 no, no, no, no. We're stopping that right now. 00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:46.180 Because if you have five years of 12 months a 00:22:46.180 --> 00:22:48.240 year cricket, that's 60 months consecutive cricket. 00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:50.759 Well, I think there's a good chance you're going 00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:52.900 to end up in a mental asylum if you did that. 00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:55.160 Sick of the game. Yeah, so we don't want that. 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:56.640 We want the complete opposite, don't we? We want 00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:59.779 people to leave school, whether they've played 00:22:59.779 --> 00:23:02.660 lots of cricket and Colts cricket. and still 00:23:02.660 --> 00:23:04.420 feel compelled that they want to go down to a 00:23:04.420 --> 00:23:06.799 cricket club on a Wednesday and a Saturday and 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:09.220 play cricket. You want their kids in the future 00:23:09.220 --> 00:23:12.180 to be living off of the positive experience that 00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:14.460 their parents had through cricket. And of course, 00:23:14.460 --> 00:23:17.119 parents now, even more so, and will be in the 00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:20.079 future, is the mum and the dad because of the 00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:22.119 way that the girls' game's grown. And it's just 00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:25.259 wonderful. So be confident enough to have a bit 00:23:25.259 --> 00:23:27.200 of time out, let the players have a bit of time 00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:29.059 out. Don't feel like you've got to continually 00:23:29.059 --> 00:23:31.900 justify your existence as a coach. It'd be crackers 00:23:31.900 --> 00:23:35.319 to do that. So we give them a bit of space. We 00:23:35.319 --> 00:23:37.839 do some planning for what the first phase is 00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:39.579 going to look like in their one -to -one sessions. 00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:42.579 And then we gradually get them back into just 00:23:42.579 --> 00:23:44.599 into some of the routines. So last week was our 00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:46.940 first week back and they come back refreshed 00:23:46.940 --> 00:23:49.039 and they come back ready. And in fact, we've 00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:50.940 got two or three that aren't coming back until 00:23:50.940 --> 00:23:52.599 a couple of weeks time because they had national 00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:55.339 finals that went on into the back end of September. 00:23:55.460 --> 00:23:58.380 So they have their transition period now. Great. 00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:00.180 Well, look, go well, Gareth. Great to catch up, 00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:02.599 a few stories. But it's interesting, I really 00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:05.759 enjoyed that whole piece about storytelling as 00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:08.460 a vehicle for coaching, as a tool for coaching. 00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:10.380 That was great. And go well. Nice to see you, 00:24:10.420 --> 00:24:11.839 Gareth. Thanks very much. Good to see you, mate. 00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:14.680 Great to hear from Mark Garaway. And yes, that's 00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:17.299 just the edited version of a very long chat with 00:24:17.299 --> 00:24:19.900 far too many stories from years gone by. Thanks 00:24:19.900 --> 00:24:22.500 for listening to this episode of The icoachcricket 00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:22.819 Podcast.