WEBVTT 00:00:01.209 --> 00:00:05.480 Thank you. In this episode of The icoachcricket 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:08.060 Podcast, it's all about communication, the importance 00:00:08.060 --> 00:00:12.119 of listening and observation skills. Martin Dighton 00:00:12.119 --> 00:00:15.640 is a coach educator at UK Coaching and has worked 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:18.600 for the FA. He's still very involved in football 00:00:18.600 --> 00:00:20.699 coaching up and down the development pathway. 00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:23.839 He helps coaches sharpen their skills in a wide 00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:26.820 range of different sports. He and Tim met up 00:00:26.820 --> 00:00:29.859 at a non -sporting venue to talk coaching. And 00:00:29.859 --> 00:00:32.539 we're bringing the average age down in a garden. 00:00:32.679 --> 00:00:35.820 centre cafe which is a great venue to meet yeah 00:00:35.820 --> 00:00:38.159 this is this is a real world venue isn't it we've 00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:41.200 got the sun outside blue sky could be worse couldn't 00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:43.000 it right the first question i was going to ask 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:47.100 you in your view of the world what makes a good 00:00:47.100 --> 00:00:49.200 coach i'm glad you gave me a little heads up 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:50.659 thanks i've had a little bit of thinking time 00:00:50.659 --> 00:00:52.479 the bit i came back to and this might be ironic 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:54.759 that i'm recording the podcast doing it in my 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:56.979 experience a good coach is someone who listens 00:00:56.979 --> 00:01:01.640 more than they talk yes good so lots about questioning 00:01:01.640 --> 00:01:05.560 lots about body language lots about being receptive 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:09.200 and trying to so yeah why is listening so important 00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:11.840 because that is definitely a key part of it the 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:13.620 word i'd pick up what you just said there is 00:01:13.620 --> 00:01:17.280 receptive i think the best coaches are responsive 00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:19.760 receptive responsive to what they see in front 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:22.180 of them i think traditionally and certainly in 00:01:22.180 --> 00:01:24.180 my experiences early on as a coach we're taught 00:01:24.180 --> 00:01:26.939 have a session plan follow your plan at minute 00:01:26.939 --> 00:01:29.920 six do this and at minute 25 do this all very 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:32.540 structured very very structured i think it took 00:01:32.540 --> 00:01:35.939 me time to realize that's not coaching that's 00:01:35.939 --> 00:01:38.019 not coaching that's just following plan coaching 00:01:38.019 --> 00:01:40.579 is about reading the room reading the environment 00:01:40.579 --> 00:01:42.840 reading the setup reading the players athletes 00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:45.180 participate whatever they're called in your context 00:01:45.930 --> 00:01:48.590 and realizing that it's me that does the flexing 00:01:48.590 --> 00:01:50.689 i'm the one that does the adapting and i think 00:01:50.689 --> 00:01:54.030 we can only do that if we really tune in to what's 00:01:54.030 --> 00:01:56.790 going on and again in my experience so many coaches 00:01:56.790 --> 00:01:59.370 are at the front and are leading and are the 00:01:59.370 --> 00:02:01.170 ones making all the noise and the ones doing 00:02:01.170 --> 00:02:03.349 all the telling but the best coaches don't do 00:02:03.349 --> 00:02:05.230 that the best coaches are amongst the environment 00:02:05.230 --> 00:02:06.890 they're part of the environment because they're 00:02:06.890 --> 00:02:09.270 in tune with what's going on So what I'm hearing 00:02:09.270 --> 00:02:11.810 there, you get that? Listening is actually very 00:02:11.810 --> 00:02:14.689 broad, isn't it? So being receptive is more than 00:02:14.689 --> 00:02:16.969 just hearing and listening to the words spoken. 00:02:17.229 --> 00:02:18.990 And you talked about reading the room, which 00:02:18.990 --> 00:02:22.449 is a real skill, isn't it? Pick up on mood, pick 00:02:22.449 --> 00:02:26.610 up on unsaid things. It's noticing body language. 00:02:26.750 --> 00:02:29.129 It's noticing, it's hard to put, it's almost 00:02:29.129 --> 00:02:32.349 the feel. It's recognising when one of the players, 00:02:32.509 --> 00:02:35.870 players in my context, players just isn't. quite 00:02:35.870 --> 00:02:38.409 where they normally are so it's not quite there 00:02:38.409 --> 00:02:40.169 or that could be higher or lower you know they 00:02:40.169 --> 00:02:41.909 might be a little down a little quieter today 00:02:41.909 --> 00:02:43.349 they might be a little louder and a bit higher 00:02:43.349 --> 00:02:45.810 but if again if we're constantly the one doing 00:02:45.810 --> 00:02:47.370 all the talking and doing all the one leading 00:02:47.370 --> 00:02:49.750 we don't have capacity to notice these sort of 00:02:49.750 --> 00:02:51.689 things and things are subtle as who they're sitting 00:02:51.689 --> 00:02:54.629 next to in a changing room on the bus at lunch 00:02:55.479 --> 00:02:57.659 what sort of mood they're in how they're dragging 00:02:57.659 --> 00:02:59.659 their bag into the changing room at the start 00:02:59.659 --> 00:03:01.740 if they're turning up late any number of things 00:03:01.740 --> 00:03:04.719 can give you clues i suppose but it's very hard 00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:06.879 so you're coach developer as well as a coach 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:10.319 is that innate there's a coach or do you over 00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:13.800 time your antenna picks up more you can become 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:16.199 sharper with time experience i think there's 00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:17.740 probably a couple of things i think there's a 00:03:17.740 --> 00:03:20.860 wider bit around how we train coaches and what 00:03:20.860 --> 00:03:23.599 good coaching is perceived to look like so if 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:26.020 you google cartoon coach you get a picture of 00:03:26.020 --> 00:03:27.939 somebody with a whistle and a clipboard yeah 00:03:27.939 --> 00:03:30.120 and i'm not sure that's what coaching is so i 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:32.240 think there's a there's a like almost like a 00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:34.460 popular culture of what coaching is i think he's 00:03:34.460 --> 00:03:36.840 challenging and the other bit is i think we've 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:38.500 just got to be realistic we're at a garden center 00:03:38.500 --> 00:03:40.699 right so around the corner here there's a there's 00:03:40.699 --> 00:03:43.560 a i imagine some sort of cook or chef right are 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:45.400 they following a recipe or are they creating 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:47.879 things i think there's an analogy that we can 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:49.520 take to coaching there when you're early on in 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:51.639 your coaching experience you want things to hold 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:53.740 on to you want a recipe you want a session plan 00:03:53.740 --> 00:03:57.759 to follow i think it takes time to realize that 00:03:57.759 --> 00:04:00.259 it's more than that but also just have the capacity 00:04:00.259 --> 00:04:02.539 to go i'm going to put the session plan down 00:04:02.539 --> 00:04:04.340 today and i'm just going to focus on the people 00:04:04.340 --> 00:04:06.180 in front of me so i think that's hard i think 00:04:06.180 --> 00:04:07.780 there's a couple of bits there's time that it 00:04:07.780 --> 00:04:10.259 certainly takes and experience but also we need 00:04:10.259 --> 00:04:13.039 to redefine what coaching is and great coaches 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:15.840 have presumably always done exactly what you've 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:18.060 just described there nothing's really changed 00:04:18.060 --> 00:04:20.379 you go back let's talk in football terms and 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:24.300 Brian Clough is an obvious example, but South 00:04:24.300 --> 00:04:26.939 Ramsey, and maybe even before that, presumably 00:04:26.939 --> 00:04:30.660 they had all these skills tenfold. They must 00:04:30.660 --> 00:04:32.220 have been really high -level operators in these 00:04:32.220 --> 00:04:35.199 areas, but maybe now we're just better at defining 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:37.660 it and describing what they do. I don't know, 00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:39.759 because I don't think we describe coaching in 00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:42.259 those terms. 20 or 30 years ago, didn't we? When 00:04:42.259 --> 00:04:44.579 I asked the question, what makes a good coach, 00:04:44.699 --> 00:04:46.399 that would have been quite an unusual answer 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:49.279 in the 1990s, I suspect. I think if we went back 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:51.379 a few years, you'd get things like highly organised. 00:04:51.740 --> 00:04:54.459 Yeah. Good level technical skills. Technical's 00:04:54.459 --> 00:04:56.420 always in there. Tech -tech, whatever sport you 00:04:56.420 --> 00:04:58.240 go to, it's the secret sauce. Especially cricket. 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:00.259 Yeah. But yeah, I think now we're starting to 00:05:00.259 --> 00:05:02.899 recognise it's a relationship game. I mean, look 00:05:02.899 --> 00:05:04.639 at where the research is going around this stuff. 00:05:05.019 --> 00:05:07.300 Sophia Jowett's work, I'd happily quote, it's 00:05:07.300 --> 00:05:10.009 a relationship that we're forming here. And you 00:05:10.009 --> 00:05:11.850 don't get to build relationships if you don't 00:05:11.850 --> 00:05:14.290 tune in to the other person. So whether you're 00:05:14.290 --> 00:05:15.870 coaching one -to -one or whether you're coaching 00:05:15.870 --> 00:05:18.470 a group, the skill set is still the same. There's 00:05:18.470 --> 00:05:21.949 a Craig Morris, a canoe slalom coach, just come 00:05:21.949 --> 00:05:24.129 back from the Olympics, and he talks about, I 00:05:24.129 --> 00:05:26.829 don't plan sessions anymore. I prepare for sessions. 00:05:27.250 --> 00:05:30.050 So I prepare, I go with possibilities. I consider 00:05:30.050 --> 00:05:32.930 what might happen so that when things do, I'm 00:05:32.930 --> 00:05:36.009 half ready to adapt, but I don't go with a plan. 00:05:36.129 --> 00:05:38.009 I like that. That's quite nice, isn't it? Yeah, 00:05:38.009 --> 00:05:41.029 so it's then going to be athlete -led and circumstance 00:05:41.029 --> 00:05:44.810 -led and we'll be flexible enough to be entirely 00:05:44.810 --> 00:05:47.189 appropriate for that moment. I love the bit around 00:05:47.189 --> 00:05:48.649 athlete -led and it's something that's gained 00:05:48.649 --> 00:05:51.050 a bit of traction recently and over the last 00:05:51.050 --> 00:05:52.730 couple of years and I still don't think we've 00:05:52.730 --> 00:05:55.189 really defined what we mean. Often athlete -led 00:05:55.189 --> 00:05:58.209 simply means, oh, I gave them a choice. I asked 00:05:58.209 --> 00:06:00.050 an open question. They offer the coach. Yeah, 00:06:00.110 --> 00:06:03.009 like maybe we need to go person -led. They're 00:06:03.009 --> 00:06:05.540 people, not athletes at first off. And actually, 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:07.060 it's about tuning in again. I'm going to use 00:06:07.060 --> 00:06:08.819 that word over and over, tuning in to what they 00:06:08.819 --> 00:06:10.959 want and need. What's their expectations of sport? 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:13.519 What do they want me to do? I'm called a coach, 00:06:13.579 --> 00:06:16.100 but that might not be what they're after today. 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:17.620 They might want me to be a listener. They might 00:06:17.620 --> 00:06:20.500 want me to play a parental -type role. That can 00:06:20.500 --> 00:06:22.379 change all the time. But again, we only know 00:06:22.379 --> 00:06:25.149 that. if we spend time listening and recognising 00:06:25.149 --> 00:06:27.029 and noticing. Do you think that's often the stumbling 00:06:27.029 --> 00:06:29.610 block, the fact that you are, we are called coaches 00:06:29.610 --> 00:06:32.829 and there's a perception we just tried the cartoon 00:06:32.829 --> 00:06:35.529 coach needing a clipboard and a whistle but in 00:06:35.529 --> 00:06:38.230 our sport it's having a sidearm and a baseball 00:06:38.230 --> 00:06:40.949 mitt now and I'm sure in football there's something 00:06:40.949 --> 00:06:42.689 similar. You've got to have the gizmos and you've 00:06:42.689 --> 00:06:44.850 got to be standing there looking active and actually 00:06:44.850 --> 00:06:48.069 you're so often not doing that role traditionally 00:06:48.069 --> 00:06:49.870 and also depending on what level you're at it's 00:06:49.870 --> 00:06:52.889 a very different role coaching. beginners in 00:06:52.889 --> 00:06:55.329 grassroots compared to an international side. 00:06:55.509 --> 00:06:57.569 And some people would say much harder. Much harder, 00:06:57.750 --> 00:06:59.649 yeah. So the bit you made me think about there 00:06:59.649 --> 00:07:01.889 is the perception, again, of what good coaching 00:07:01.889 --> 00:07:04.209 is. So I've had this with many coaches. I imagine 00:07:04.209 --> 00:07:06.110 coaches that eventually listen to this will recognise 00:07:06.110 --> 00:07:09.589 there is a perception of what other people think 00:07:09.589 --> 00:07:11.790 coaching are. By other people, I often mean parents 00:07:11.790 --> 00:07:14.750 or, I hate the word stakeholders, but, you know, 00:07:14.790 --> 00:07:17.189 people around sport that have this perception 00:07:17.189 --> 00:07:19.750 that, well, he or she has just been stood there 00:07:19.750 --> 00:07:21.029 for five minutes. That's not what I'm paying 00:07:21.029 --> 00:07:23.230 money for. Well, actually, that might be the 00:07:23.230 --> 00:07:25.350 most powerful five minutes of the session because 00:07:25.350 --> 00:07:28.230 that is where they are assessing, working out, 00:07:28.329 --> 00:07:29.689 considering, right, where are we going to go 00:07:29.689 --> 00:07:31.529 today? What's the right thing for this session? 00:07:31.629 --> 00:07:34.069 What's my next interaction with this player going 00:07:34.069 --> 00:07:35.589 to be? Am I going to go and help them with something? 00:07:35.689 --> 00:07:37.430 Am I going to go and set them a problem? But 00:07:37.430 --> 00:07:39.069 actually, they're just thinking and watching. 00:07:39.209 --> 00:07:41.930 We should encourage that. But often coaches feel 00:07:41.930 --> 00:07:44.209 that the perception is that's when they're not 00:07:44.209 --> 00:07:47.220 coaching. That's when they're not doing it. Maybe 00:07:47.220 --> 00:07:49.420 it's forecast like this, but we need to readdress 00:07:49.420 --> 00:07:52.899 this idea that coaching is about observing, problem 00:07:52.899 --> 00:07:55.420 solving, and then helping. And it's educating 00:07:55.420 --> 00:07:57.860 the parents often, isn't it? And that's absolutely 00:07:57.860 --> 00:08:00.019 right. Coaches do feel that they need to justify 00:08:00.019 --> 00:08:04.300 their 20 quid an hour or their certificate or 00:08:04.300 --> 00:08:07.199 their general status in a club by appearing to 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:10.000 be active, quite unnecessarily a lot of the time, 00:08:10.060 --> 00:08:12.839 where actually if they just had 10 minutes standing 00:08:12.839 --> 00:08:14.879 on the sideline watching it all crack on without 00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:17.449 interference, they'd be... in a better place 00:08:17.449 --> 00:08:19.370 doing a better job but you just get nervous you 00:08:19.370 --> 00:08:21.470 have to take a lot of confidence to do that and 00:08:21.470 --> 00:08:23.910 we've got to remember not everybody starts their 00:08:23.910 --> 00:08:26.129 coaching journey confident you know for many 00:08:26.129 --> 00:08:29.529 they are we're starting out um there's a colleague 00:08:29.529 --> 00:08:31.730 of mine at uk coaching marianne davies she talks 00:08:31.730 --> 00:08:35.019 about it's like learning to fly a plane in a 00:08:35.019 --> 00:08:36.960 jumbo jet that's full of passengers. That's what 00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:38.679 coaching is when we start out. We don't get a 00:08:38.679 --> 00:08:40.639 playground or a sandpit to go and play in. Or 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:42.779 a simulator. Yeah, we don't. And maybe that will 00:08:42.779 --> 00:08:45.159 come one day with AI and whatever. But at the 00:08:45.159 --> 00:08:47.320 moment, you go and learn a bit about coaching, 00:08:47.460 --> 00:08:49.799 so maybe a foundation course in the ECB. And 00:08:49.799 --> 00:08:51.320 then you're thrust into it. It's then, go on 00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:53.139 then. And a lot of it's luck about who you're 00:08:53.139 --> 00:08:55.039 working alongside at that point, isn't it? And 00:08:55.039 --> 00:08:56.539 which group you're working with, whether it's 00:08:56.539 --> 00:08:59.340 appropriate players are the right sort of players 00:08:59.340 --> 00:09:01.440 for you to be working with and how receptive 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:04.039 the parents are. And if you're unlucky, you could 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:06.519 not only damage the players you're working with, 00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:08.440 but also you could be put off the whole experience, 00:09:08.559 --> 00:09:09.960 couldn't you? Whereas if you get lucky and you 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:12.480 fall on your feet alongside someone who's nurturing 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:15.179 and developing, you're up and running, aren't 00:09:15.179 --> 00:09:17.899 you? I'm biased, I guess, but I don't know if 00:09:17.899 --> 00:09:20.200 it's lucky or unlucky. For two reasons. One, 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:22.740 I think if the coach can and we should help, 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:25.120 we being the system, coach education, coach development, 00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:28.820 we can help coaches to go in with more of a way 00:09:28.820 --> 00:09:30.980 of communicating what they're going to do and 00:09:30.980 --> 00:09:32.480 why they're doing it the way they're doing. But 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:34.759 again, that takes confidence. Or it's around 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:37.600 what's the network around that coach. So a club 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:39.379 has just said, right, go on, go and do your foundation 00:09:39.379 --> 00:09:41.600 course. When they come back, it shouldn't be, 00:09:41.659 --> 00:09:43.320 right, here's some balls and bats, good luck. 00:09:43.580 --> 00:09:45.779 It should be, yeah, here's someone we're going 00:09:45.779 --> 00:09:47.799 to attach to you for six months, just as a... 00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:50.320 an official mentoring role just to support you 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:51.799 to be on the end of the phone if you need it 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:53.600 and here's somebody who's going to coach with 00:09:53.600 --> 00:09:55.480 you the first couple of weeks and they actually 00:09:55.480 --> 00:09:57.740 start to wrap a network around them rather than 00:09:57.740 --> 00:10:00.700 just go great you're qualified off you go um 00:10:00.700 --> 00:10:03.720 which is looking across multiple sports in my 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:06.080 my role at uk coaching is what tends to happen 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:09.860 it's right you're qualified now good luck Yeah, 00:10:09.860 --> 00:10:12.120 it is. It's so like that. And it's such a responsibility, 00:10:12.179 --> 00:10:14.059 isn't it? Because you're working with players 00:10:14.059 --> 00:10:16.860 and you don't know who the next big star might 00:10:16.860 --> 00:10:18.600 be. They might be in your group. They might be 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:20.720 eight years old and be showing no real signs 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:23.899 of anything special at that stage. But if you 00:10:23.899 --> 00:10:26.279 get it right as a coach, often just let them 00:10:26.279 --> 00:10:29.240 crack on, then they'll develop and reach their 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:32.019 potential and love it. And if you get it wrong, 00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:33.860 it's going to be the reverse of that and they 00:10:33.860 --> 00:10:36.039 could be lost forever. And if you put it in those 00:10:36.039 --> 00:10:39.019 black and white terms. It's quite a responsibility, 00:10:39.179 --> 00:10:41.399 isn't it? It's a huge responsibility and I think 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:42.899 that probably taps into some of the confidence 00:10:42.899 --> 00:10:45.519 stuff. People are stood in front of this group 00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:47.500 of kids often. Normally when you just qualify, 00:10:47.620 --> 00:10:49.720 you're working with kids and it's like, crikey, 00:10:49.720 --> 00:10:51.500 what do I do now? Like all this responsibility. 00:10:52.490 --> 00:10:54.470 But again, maybe I'd flip it slightly differently. 00:10:54.649 --> 00:10:57.009 Yes, there might be the next England opener in 00:10:57.009 --> 00:10:59.230 your group of kids. There also might be the next 00:10:59.230 --> 00:11:01.610 coach at your club. There also might be the next 00:11:01.610 --> 00:11:03.370 umpire, the next official. What about the next 00:11:03.370 --> 00:11:05.309 sponsor? Because they're the important ones, 00:11:05.370 --> 00:11:07.590 aren't they? Well, the people injecting the money. 00:11:07.669 --> 00:11:09.029 I mean, that keeps the game ticking, doesn't 00:11:09.029 --> 00:11:10.750 it? And you never know, they could be the biggest 00:11:10.750 --> 00:11:12.870 non -player in the group, but they could be the 00:11:12.870 --> 00:11:15.629 most influential in the game. I mean, my background's 00:11:15.629 --> 00:11:17.549 mostly in football. Football's my home sport. 00:11:17.610 --> 00:11:20.559 Please don't turn off at that point. I know the 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:24.200 stats for football. It's roughly 0 .0015 % of 00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:26.899 kids who play kids football will play in the 00:11:26.899 --> 00:11:28.580 Premier League. Is that right? Just say that 00:11:28.580 --> 00:11:32.840 number again. 0 .0015%. That's a very small number. 00:11:32.980 --> 00:11:35.000 And it's getting smaller, right? For loads of 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:37.120 reasons we don't need to go into. What percentage, 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:38.580 though, will go on to be a member of society 00:11:38.580 --> 00:11:41.440 in the future? 100. Right, so actually, maybe 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:43.559 we need to flip our perspective. We're not to 00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:46.019 find the next gem. We're to create an opportunity, 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:48.779 whereas if the next gem's in there... they'll 00:11:48.779 --> 00:11:51.700 still be playing in 10, 15, 20 years time. They'll 00:11:51.700 --> 00:11:53.940 still be around the sport. But also we can't 00:11:53.940 --> 00:11:55.559 just define the next gem as the next England 00:11:55.559 --> 00:11:58.039 opener. That could be, like we said, that could 00:11:58.039 --> 00:12:01.059 be the next England coach. Who knows? So a holistic 00:12:01.059 --> 00:12:03.679 approach, trying to develop a person rather than 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:05.240 an athlete, because you picked me up immediately 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:08.139 when I mentioned being athlete -led. So it's 00:12:08.139 --> 00:12:09.919 trying to develop people, isn't it? And they 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:11.700 might end up having nothing to do with cricket, 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:14.519 but you'll still play your part. in developing 00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:16.340 that person into being what they're being. Actually, 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:19.960 I work on a bunch of cricket and we've got quite 00:12:19.960 --> 00:12:23.500 a good record of turning youth cricketers into 00:12:23.500 --> 00:12:26.460 Reading footballers, London Irish when they existed, 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:30.360 rugby players. Quite a conveyor belt of our young 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:32.700 cricketers went off and... played at high level 00:12:32.700 --> 00:12:35.080 in other sports. I always said to my fellow coaches, 00:12:35.179 --> 00:12:36.799 you know, we should take some credit for this 00:12:36.799 --> 00:12:39.460 because we're developing the sports person to 00:12:39.460 --> 00:12:41.980 become what they are. And okay, they're not openly 00:12:41.980 --> 00:12:43.659 batting for Berkshire or Middlesex, which is 00:12:43.659 --> 00:12:45.940 probably what we'd all like them to be doing. 00:12:45.980 --> 00:12:49.340 But for them, our Berkshire cricket input would 00:12:49.340 --> 00:12:51.940 have had significant, hopefully, help to them 00:12:51.940 --> 00:12:53.460 becoming their league sports person. I think 00:12:53.460 --> 00:12:56.019 we're almost going full circle. We open this 00:12:56.019 --> 00:12:58.169 by talking about listening. What message does 00:12:58.169 --> 00:12:59.669 that send to a young person, whether they're 00:12:59.669 --> 00:13:01.610 a child, a teenager, adolescence, whatever term 00:13:01.610 --> 00:13:04.149 you want? I've got this adult in my life who 00:13:04.149 --> 00:13:06.450 listens to me, who notices me, who cares about 00:13:06.450 --> 00:13:09.409 me. We're instilling values that will last a 00:13:09.409 --> 00:13:11.590 lifetime. If you look at teenagers, we know that, 00:13:11.610 --> 00:13:13.289 and I'm sure some people will be out there going, 00:13:13.370 --> 00:13:15.509 oh, teenagers. We look at teenagers, we know 00:13:15.509 --> 00:13:17.009 they are in that time of their life where they 00:13:17.009 --> 00:13:18.909 are establishing the values they're going to 00:13:18.909 --> 00:13:20.950 live with for the rest of their life. Wouldn't 00:13:20.950 --> 00:13:22.730 it be fantastic if they had a coach in front 00:13:22.730 --> 00:13:24.529 of them, a human being in front of them, who 00:13:24.529 --> 00:13:27.110 listened, who cared, who showed interest? But 00:13:27.110 --> 00:13:29.549 I don't mean in the superficial way that we've 00:13:29.549 --> 00:13:31.309 probably traditionally done in coaching forever. 00:13:31.889 --> 00:13:35.330 Actually, truly notices. Because they even then 00:13:35.330 --> 00:13:38.070 mirror that behaviour in their adult life, potentially. 00:13:38.250 --> 00:13:40.370 Yeah, it'll stick because they've had somebody 00:13:40.370 --> 00:13:42.409 that they look up to, that they value, that they 00:13:42.409 --> 00:13:45.809 trust, who's shown them a way. And we know of 00:13:45.809 --> 00:13:47.230 all the challenges that are in the country at 00:13:47.230 --> 00:13:49.250 the moment growing up. And I still think there 00:13:49.250 --> 00:13:51.679 is huge power, whether it's in a... a grassroots 00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:53.960 community based or in some sort of performance 00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:56.600 pathway it's still the same thing these are children 00:13:56.600 --> 00:13:58.620 learning to find their way in the world and they 00:13:58.620 --> 00:14:01.340 could have a really positive valuable role model 00:14:01.340 --> 00:14:04.139 if we just tuned in a bit more and this is where 00:14:04.139 --> 00:14:08.059 the skills from grassroots to top end do overlap 00:14:08.059 --> 00:14:12.159 completely don't they maybe they're more noticed 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:15.549 and measured and valued at the very top level 00:14:15.549 --> 00:14:18.169 because they are effectively international coaches 00:14:18.169 --> 00:14:20.110 they hardly get any contact time with the players 00:14:20.110 --> 00:14:22.330 for a start do they so they're like mentor figures 00:14:22.330 --> 00:14:25.250 and they are organizers and very much managers 00:14:25.250 --> 00:14:29.809 whereas a club youth coach is doing a much broader 00:14:29.809 --> 00:14:32.870 range of skills but those skills that we've been 00:14:32.870 --> 00:14:34.470 talking about are just as important so perhaps 00:14:34.470 --> 00:14:37.330 that's why Sometimes that's not the answer you 00:14:37.330 --> 00:14:39.429 get at the start of this conversation. They're 00:14:39.429 --> 00:14:41.509 listening because there are so many other skills 00:14:41.509 --> 00:14:45.950 required. Absolutely. I coach an under -16 team 00:14:45.950 --> 00:14:48.889 and we talk in there. If you're not sure what 00:14:48.889 --> 00:14:50.750 to do with your career, go and learn how to be 00:14:50.750 --> 00:14:53.429 a coach. Look at all the skills you have to develop, 00:14:53.509 --> 00:14:55.549 the qualities that you'll need to be a coach. 00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:57.659 So yeah, I don't want to be sat here thinking, 00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:00.019 oh yeah, coaching's easy. It's not. I want to 00:15:00.019 --> 00:15:02.460 be really clear, coaching's not easy. But again, 00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:05.200 I'm adamant, it's easier when we spend more time 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:07.480 listening and noticing. Is there a big difference 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:09.480 between coaching and teaching then, for instance? 00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:12.600 I mean, obviously your skills overlap, clearly. 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:15.720 But I don't know how we would define teaching 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:18.340 as opposed to coaching. That's a good question. 00:15:18.379 --> 00:15:19.860 I've had many debates around this. It's probably 00:15:19.860 --> 00:15:22.139 not for me, although my wife is a teacher. You're 00:15:22.139 --> 00:15:24.419 actually very careful here. It's not for me to 00:15:24.419 --> 00:15:26.360 define what a teacher is or does, I suppose. 00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:28.879 I guess there's some difference in that teachers 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:32.480 are often working to some sort of point, whether 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:34.519 that's an exam, a test, a grade that they've 00:15:34.519 --> 00:15:35.740 got to work to. Curriculum driven. Yeah, more 00:15:35.740 --> 00:15:37.679 curriculum driven. I suppose with a coach, you 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:41.620 tend to have more opportunity to diversify what 00:15:41.620 --> 00:15:43.700 you're working on and ideally to individualise 00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:45.929 that. But I sound like a broken record, but I 00:15:45.929 --> 00:15:47.649 keep coming back. You can only individualise 00:15:47.649 --> 00:15:49.350 your coaching if you know what the person in 00:15:49.350 --> 00:15:50.970 front of you needs. And you only get to do that 00:15:50.970 --> 00:15:54.549 by stopping, listening, watching, thinking. We're 00:15:54.549 --> 00:15:58.529 back to that again. Yeah, ultimately, both occupations 00:15:58.529 --> 00:16:01.590 are to help people get better at something. So 00:16:01.590 --> 00:16:04.059 there are similarities. So a couple of other 00:16:04.059 --> 00:16:05.960 things I wanted to pick up on here about being 00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:08.960 fully committed and the commitment it is to be 00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:12.440 a decent level coach in terms of time but energy 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:15.220 as well and developing yourself as a coach so 00:16:15.220 --> 00:16:16.879 developing your skills and trying to get better 00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:18.740 and the other thing I wanted to pick up on was 00:16:18.740 --> 00:16:21.740 just an enjoyment factor not just for the players 00:16:21.740 --> 00:16:24.039 you're working with but also for you and your 00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:26.120 coaching team because really you're only going 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:27.720 to be good at all this if you're actually enjoying 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:30.750 it. It's going to be quite a tough existence 00:16:30.750 --> 00:16:33.590 if you're not really wholehearted or enjoying 00:16:33.590 --> 00:16:35.509 it and fully committed. You're just not really 00:16:35.509 --> 00:16:38.009 any good at it, are you? Completely. He reminded 00:16:38.009 --> 00:16:39.929 me of a coach that I worked with a few years 00:16:39.929 --> 00:16:41.789 ago who said, when we lost at the weekend, it 00:16:41.789 --> 00:16:44.590 ruined my week. And I just sort of had to play 00:16:44.590 --> 00:16:47.509 that back to him and go, are you sure? You're 00:16:47.509 --> 00:16:49.009 not going to be doing this for very long if losing 00:16:49.009 --> 00:16:51.029 at the weekend with your kids' team ruins your 00:16:51.029 --> 00:16:53.750 week. So we started to unpick, what else is in 00:16:53.750 --> 00:16:55.690 it? What do you look for other than whether we 00:16:55.690 --> 00:16:57.330 win or lose? Because ultimately, we don't get 00:16:57.330 --> 00:16:59.929 to choose that. But we do get to choose how we 00:16:59.929 --> 00:17:01.809 interact with the people in front of us. We do 00:17:01.809 --> 00:17:04.769 get to choose whether we notice the little developments 00:17:04.769 --> 00:17:06.589 they make. With a seven -year -old, that might 00:17:06.589 --> 00:17:08.369 be learning to tie their shoelaces. With a 16 00:17:08.369 --> 00:17:11.069 -year -old, that might be choosing a different 00:17:11.069 --> 00:17:14.430 word to describe an experience. There's loads 00:17:14.430 --> 00:17:17.410 of little mini wins. But I think sometimes as 00:17:17.410 --> 00:17:20.640 a coach, we get caught up in all the... losses 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:22.539 and all the frustrations and all the challenges 00:17:22.539 --> 00:17:25.299 we miss the mini wins i think sometimes each 00:17:25.299 --> 00:17:27.440 coach just needs somebody that helps them to 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:29.220 spot those whether that's a coach developer whether 00:17:29.220 --> 00:17:31.819 that's just a friend a co -coach you know to 00:17:31.819 --> 00:17:33.839 someone that says well actually if we look back 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:36.099 a year these players are in a completely different 00:17:36.099 --> 00:17:38.480 place a year later we just don't notice there 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:42.839 aren't many levels where winning becomes significant 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:47.210 important everything really if you're maybe the 00:17:47.210 --> 00:17:49.670 last day of an ashes test match and you need 00:17:49.670 --> 00:17:52.329 to hold out for a draw to win the series that 00:17:52.329 --> 00:17:56.690 i get that maybe but below that they're very 00:17:56.690 --> 00:17:58.910 rare isn't it where actually you need to attach 00:17:58.910 --> 00:18:02.789 your whole weekend's joy or grief to the result 00:18:02.789 --> 00:18:05.359 i suppose football fan mentality that really 00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:07.579 isn't it rather than coach mentality and they're 00:18:07.579 --> 00:18:09.480 quite different things i think there's a there's 00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:11.900 a whole society thing in there you know you could 00:18:11.900 --> 00:18:13.519 chuck in social media i need to put on social 00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:15.700 media that my under 12s team won at the weekend 00:18:15.700 --> 00:18:17.559 like is that really what we need and football 00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:19.480 coaches are managed particularly have to look 00:18:19.480 --> 00:18:22.079 crestfallen if they lose and joyous if they win 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:25.160 to keep the fans on side so that perhaps spreads 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:27.839 around coaching circles as well and i suppose 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:29.640 it's what we're exposed to what we see on the 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:31.720 tv and i find it really interesting in the cricket 00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:34.640 world the coach tends to just sit up on the balcony 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:37.380 big sunglasses on so no one can see big hat normally 00:18:37.380 --> 00:18:40.299 as well so yeah there's perceptions again we're 00:18:40.299 --> 00:18:42.740 back into that idea of what is a coach and my 00:18:42.740 --> 00:18:45.200 experiences of cricket which aren't huge but 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:47.259 it seems to be a coach is perceived slightly 00:18:47.259 --> 00:18:49.619 different to some other sports maybe there's 00:18:49.619 --> 00:18:51.799 an opportunity there actually we can do all the 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:53.380 things we're talking about today about properly 00:18:53.380 --> 00:18:56.309 tune in and listen and because Maybe that perception 00:18:56.309 --> 00:18:57.869 of some of the top coaches in cricket will really 00:18:57.869 --> 00:18:59.849 do some of that stuff. I don't know how much 00:18:59.849 --> 00:19:03.349 coaching experience you have or you've observed 00:19:03.349 --> 00:19:06.410 in different cultures, but that's a spanner in 00:19:06.410 --> 00:19:08.190 the works, isn't it? So some of our coaches are 00:19:08.190 --> 00:19:11.509 travelling out to work in the IPL now or working 00:19:11.509 --> 00:19:13.869 abroad, and I think that's got to be a good thing 00:19:13.869 --> 00:19:16.569 to go and dip your toe in the water outside of 00:19:16.569 --> 00:19:20.450 the comfort of the UK. But then that really tests 00:19:20.450 --> 00:19:21.849 your skills, doesn't it, when you're dealing 00:19:21.849 --> 00:19:24.799 in different cultures? and that listening. I 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:27.019 did some coaching out in Canada a few years ago 00:19:27.019 --> 00:19:29.220 and the perceptions was there that the coach 00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:32.059 is the font of all knowledge. I'll do what you 00:19:32.059 --> 00:19:34.259 tell me because you know better than me. And 00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:36.180 when I turned up and went, so what do you think? 00:19:37.059 --> 00:19:38.339 People sort of looked at me as though I had three 00:19:38.339 --> 00:19:40.579 heads. Wrong foot. It was like, what do you mean? 00:19:40.619 --> 00:19:42.700 What do I think? And it's then they knew. You're 00:19:42.700 --> 00:19:45.119 the most important person in this. You're the 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:47.000 player. So what do you think? What do you want? 00:19:47.140 --> 00:19:49.799 Does there come a point where you need to demonstrate 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:52.700 your knowledge and your worth? I think there's 00:19:52.700 --> 00:19:54.819 been some research into professional teams, particularly 00:19:54.819 --> 00:19:58.700 where athletes do, at times, want to just be 00:19:58.700 --> 00:20:02.500 told what to do. I know I really get the limitations 00:20:02.500 --> 00:20:04.480 from a development point of view of that, but 00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:06.460 there are moments, aren't there, where perhaps 00:20:06.460 --> 00:20:09.730 time is a restriction. whatever it might be that 00:20:09.730 --> 00:20:12.390 a coach just go actually this is it this is what 00:20:12.390 --> 00:20:14.529 we're doing. I think we're in danger of and this 00:20:14.529 --> 00:20:16.730 is really typical but we're in danger of going 00:20:16.730 --> 00:20:19.230 black or white there's nuance in this so if I 00:20:19.230 --> 00:20:22.049 come back to kind of the key theme of listening, 00:20:22.230 --> 00:20:24.680 noticing, tuning in, reading the room. Well, 00:20:24.700 --> 00:20:26.099 one of the things you might notice from the group 00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:28.039 is they need me to lead at the moment. They need 00:20:28.039 --> 00:20:29.799 me to drive because that's where we're at. So 00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:31.799 I've come into a team that are struggling. They've 00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:33.940 lost the last 10 games. They probably need me 00:20:33.940 --> 00:20:35.480 to stand at the front and give some direction. 00:20:35.700 --> 00:20:37.940 But again, you can only do that if you tune in 00:20:37.940 --> 00:20:40.339 and read the room. And back to again, the best 00:20:40.339 --> 00:20:42.299 coaches are responsive. They'll read the situation. 00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:45.440 So whilst, yes, I was in Canada and I tried to 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:47.259 get the players to take more ownership and more 00:20:47.259 --> 00:20:49.500 responsibility, if I'd have tried that for the 00:20:49.500 --> 00:20:52.130 whole week, they'd have stopped coming. So I 00:20:52.130 --> 00:20:54.089 had to realise, right, this needs to be a negotiation 00:20:54.089 --> 00:20:57.029 now. We need to work and find some middle. And 00:20:57.029 --> 00:20:59.269 over time, I'll help shift them towards being 00:20:59.269 --> 00:21:02.289 more in charge of their own learning, taking 00:21:02.289 --> 00:21:04.230 more responsibility and more ownership. But at 00:21:04.230 --> 00:21:05.690 the moment, they're not ready for it. But it's 00:21:05.690 --> 00:21:07.869 only because I listen that I find that out. And 00:21:07.869 --> 00:21:09.990 I think typically as coaches, we tend to assume, 00:21:10.109 --> 00:21:12.750 I did this last time, I'll do this again. But 00:21:12.750 --> 00:21:14.730 human beings are unique. It's always different. 00:21:15.190 --> 00:21:16.789 Whether you're abroad, whether you're at different 00:21:16.789 --> 00:21:18.829 levels, it will always be different. And you 00:21:18.829 --> 00:21:21.529 talked earlier on about... We use the example 00:21:21.529 --> 00:21:24.809 of the slalom canoeing coach. Yes, prepare, don't 00:21:24.809 --> 00:21:29.329 plan. Yes, so not planning isn't a shortcut to 00:21:29.329 --> 00:21:32.529 less work, is it? In fact, it's more work, isn't 00:21:32.529 --> 00:21:35.289 it? Be prepared for a whole series of eventualities. 00:21:35.630 --> 00:21:38.150 We're not saying the coach just rock up and see 00:21:38.150 --> 00:21:41.069 how it goes. You still need all that knowledge 00:21:41.069 --> 00:21:43.589 and you still need all the ideas and you still 00:21:43.589 --> 00:21:46.819 need all the communication skills. you're going 00:21:46.819 --> 00:21:49.420 there with a bigger fuller tool bag than a than 00:21:49.420 --> 00:21:51.799 if you had a super planned session which could 00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:55.079 only go one way i suppose i think that yes it 00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:57.980 is harder to coach in this hard to describe that 00:21:57.980 --> 00:22:01.019 you get it you well you don't get to switch off 00:22:01.019 --> 00:22:02.720 you don't get to stop you don't get to go on 00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:04.599 autopilot and follow the plan because you're 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:06.799 constantly switched on there's a phrase that 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:08.299 bounces around some sports i don't know if in 00:22:08.299 --> 00:22:10.799 cricket that the game is the teacher yes we've 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:13.000 done that no the game is not the teacher you're 00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:15.099 the teacher or coach back to our earlier conversation 00:22:15.099 --> 00:22:17.460 teacher or coach you're the coach the game helps 00:22:17.460 --> 00:22:19.559 you to do that but once again you can only do 00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:21.000 that if you're really in tune with what's going 00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:25.819 on around you so yes it is harder it is far more 00:22:25.819 --> 00:22:28.259 effortful to be responsive and react to what 00:22:28.259 --> 00:22:29.579 happens in front of you and what individuals 00:22:29.579 --> 00:22:32.059 need. But ultimately, that's what they deserve. 00:22:32.259 --> 00:22:35.079 But that whole idea of, we've talked about letting 00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:37.759 the practice do the teaching and that they learn 00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:40.380 from the creation. There's still some validity 00:22:40.380 --> 00:22:42.500 in that, isn't there? A well -set -up practice 00:22:42.500 --> 00:22:45.900 obviously educates a young player more than a... 00:22:45.900 --> 00:22:48.299 We can almost look at layers here. So we're talking 00:22:48.299 --> 00:22:50.960 about a coach, the coach layer, being in tune, 00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:53.339 recognising the environment, reading the room, 00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:55.509 all that sort of stuff. We want players doing 00:22:55.509 --> 00:22:57.970 that too. So we don't want players that constantly 00:22:57.970 --> 00:23:00.029 go, ah, I don't know what to do, I'll ask my 00:23:00.029 --> 00:23:02.009 coach. We want players that go, I'm in a situation 00:23:02.009 --> 00:23:04.950 here and I need to adapt accordingly. So we've 00:23:04.950 --> 00:23:07.269 lost early wickets, how do I play now? What's 00:23:07.269 --> 00:23:10.509 changed? So yes, the coach can create opportunities 00:23:10.509 --> 00:23:13.130 to practice that. But again, that's recognising 00:23:13.130 --> 00:23:14.769 where the players are, what they need, the mood 00:23:14.769 --> 00:23:16.630 they're in today and how we'll adapt with it. 00:23:16.970 --> 00:23:20.150 But crikey, yeah, how we design practices is 00:23:20.150 --> 00:23:22.619 hugely important as a coach. But we then need 00:23:22.619 --> 00:23:24.220 to spend time observing to see what actually 00:23:24.220 --> 00:23:26.640 happens. ITCs, we used to call them, independent 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:29.900 thinking cricketers. So yeah, ITCs is what we 00:23:29.900 --> 00:23:31.740 were always after as coaches. We don't use that 00:23:31.740 --> 00:23:34.079 expression so much now, but back in the day, 00:23:34.099 --> 00:23:36.039 that's what we talked about. Last thing I wanted 00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:38.380 to ask you about is energy, because you've obviously 00:23:38.380 --> 00:23:40.700 got bundled with it, just from your body language 00:23:40.700 --> 00:23:43.160 and the way you talk. And that is quite a handy 00:23:43.160 --> 00:23:46.539 thing to have, isn't it, as a quality, as a coach. 00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:49.140 It is demanding. It's hard work and it does need 00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:51.710 energy. You need to be physically... able to 00:23:51.710 --> 00:23:55.589 inject that energy to sessions and players it's 00:23:55.589 --> 00:23:58.529 i'm energetic because it's something i'm really 00:23:58.529 --> 00:24:01.509 interested in um if we were talking about chess 00:24:01.509 --> 00:24:05.029 i might be less gardening yeah same um so lovely 00:24:05.029 --> 00:24:08.250 box heading over there those geraniums so i think 00:24:08.250 --> 00:24:09.869 if um because that's your point earlier like 00:24:09.869 --> 00:24:12.250 if you're if you're tapping into something you 00:24:12.250 --> 00:24:15.549 really enjoy doing if you're getting value out 00:24:15.549 --> 00:24:17.349 of what you're doing the energy tends to flow 00:24:17.349 --> 00:24:18.990 anyway so I think coaches need to look at what 00:24:18.990 --> 00:24:21.170 do I want from this the classic in a grassroots 00:24:21.170 --> 00:24:23.990 community space is we need a new coach and everybody 00:24:23.990 --> 00:24:25.750 stepped back and you didn't step back quick enough 00:24:25.750 --> 00:24:27.829 well actually look at it what can you get from 00:24:27.829 --> 00:24:29.930 this it's going to going to fulfill you that 00:24:29.930 --> 00:24:31.809 you're going to enjoy from you know when you 00:24:31.809 --> 00:24:33.670 see the smile on the kid's face who's just played 00:24:33.670 --> 00:24:35.430 a ramp shot like Joe Root for the first time 00:24:35.430 --> 00:24:37.750 that's amazing that's incredible so we've got 00:24:37.750 --> 00:24:39.769 to try and we've got to ride those waves a little 00:24:39.769 --> 00:24:42.859 bit but um yes we do need energy But again, I'd 00:24:42.859 --> 00:24:44.779 counter that with, we need to be able to flex 00:24:44.779 --> 00:24:46.819 and respond. So there are times with my team, 00:24:47.019 --> 00:24:49.160 I need to provide the energy. I need to bring 00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:51.099 the energy. I need to be bouncy and lively and 00:24:51.099 --> 00:24:53.279 loud and full of life. But there's other times 00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:55.319 where I need to shut up and I just need to... 00:24:55.870 --> 00:24:58.109 withdraw a little bit and let them go now that 00:24:58.109 --> 00:24:59.670 might be when they're in a practice and we're 00:24:59.670 --> 00:25:01.089 trying i'm getting them to struggle a little 00:25:01.089 --> 00:25:03.309 bit and getting them to work some stuff out well 00:25:03.309 --> 00:25:05.309 that might just be they're sick of me like my 00:25:05.309 --> 00:25:07.750 under 16s have just had their gcse results the 00:25:07.750 --> 00:25:09.230 last thing they want on a wednesday night is 00:25:09.230 --> 00:25:11.589 me telling them what to do most of us find one 00:25:11.589 --> 00:25:14.170 or the other easier don't we so i suspect look 00:25:14.170 --> 00:25:17.029 we've only been talking half an hour but you 00:25:17.029 --> 00:25:18.869 probably find it quite easy to inject the energy 00:25:18.869 --> 00:25:21.269 and be upbeat and I have to work hard to dial 00:25:21.269 --> 00:25:22.869 it down. And then to step back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:25:22.950 --> 00:25:24.710 And I think I'll probably be similar in truth. 00:25:24.950 --> 00:25:27.549 But most people have one or the other, don't 00:25:27.549 --> 00:25:28.809 they? It's their default. And they don't have 00:25:28.809 --> 00:25:30.950 to be quite consciously making an effort to do 00:25:30.950 --> 00:25:33.250 the other. So in my coach development work, if 00:25:33.250 --> 00:25:34.990 I go and work with a coach, we'll mic them up. 00:25:35.250 --> 00:25:38.170 I dare the coaches listening to this. Find the 00:25:38.170 --> 00:25:39.750 Dictaphone app on your phone. You've all got 00:25:39.750 --> 00:25:42.349 one. We've all got a smartphone. Hit record and 00:25:42.349 --> 00:25:44.779 go coaching. and afterwards listen back to it 00:25:44.779 --> 00:25:46.599 and see if you can notice almost like the peaks 00:25:46.599 --> 00:25:48.700 and troughs in the way you've interacted the 00:25:48.700 --> 00:25:51.180 energy you're bringing because it shouldn't be 00:25:51.180 --> 00:25:54.009 constant this should be flex you should be adapting 00:25:54.009 --> 00:25:59.029 music like a song crescendo yes so yeah that's 00:25:59.029 --> 00:26:01.069 what good coaching looks and feels like and and 00:26:01.069 --> 00:26:03.109 there isn't oh you should do you should go high 00:26:03.109 --> 00:26:05.430 or you should go low it all depends on how you 00:26:05.430 --> 00:26:07.930 felt in the moment so a lot of my conversations 00:26:07.930 --> 00:26:10.089 with coaches will be listening to the audio going 00:26:10.089 --> 00:26:12.009 well you went high there what was you thinking 00:26:12.009 --> 00:26:14.250 what made you go high what did you notice in 00:26:14.250 --> 00:26:16.470 in the environment that said you need to bring 00:26:16.470 --> 00:26:19.319 some energy and vice versa and that's the skill 00:26:19.319 --> 00:26:21.099 of coaching the skill of coaching is adapting 00:26:21.099 --> 00:26:24.960 on the fly because you're prepared enough because 00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:27.119 we talk a lot about videoing your own coaching 00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:29.119 performance but actually you're right on voice 00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:31.519 note isn't it on my phone all i need to do is 00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:34.460 whack it on that and then listen back afterwards 00:26:34.460 --> 00:26:37.119 i may not like i won't actually i always think 00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:38.539 people who like to sound their own voice that's 00:26:38.539 --> 00:26:41.349 a bit weird i hate listening to myself But you'd 00:26:41.349 --> 00:26:43.450 learn a lot about your coaching and the pace 00:26:43.450 --> 00:26:45.930 of the delivery and the energy levels. So that's 00:26:45.930 --> 00:26:48.730 my takeaway. I'm going to do that. Even if it's 00:26:48.730 --> 00:26:50.849 not for the whole session, five minutes. Just 00:26:50.849 --> 00:26:53.549 do your debrief at the end or your team talk 00:26:53.549 --> 00:26:55.410 in the change room beforehand. Just test it. 00:26:55.450 --> 00:26:57.490 Just try it. But you're right. Nobody likes their 00:26:57.490 --> 00:26:58.910 own voice. I'm going to have to fight through 00:26:58.910 --> 00:27:00.710 listening to this podcast back because I don't 00:27:00.710 --> 00:27:03.200 like my own voice either. but it's the most powerful 00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:04.960 thing. And it means you've got a coach developer 00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:06.880 in your pocket. That's really good. Thank you 00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:08.660 so much. Great to meet you. Now, you can go and 00:27:08.660 --> 00:27:11.460 do your gardening shopping in this cafe. You 00:27:11.460 --> 00:27:13.539 can nip outside. Look at all those lovely plants 00:27:13.539 --> 00:27:15.380 waiting for you to be... Find my wife some flowers, 00:27:15.460 --> 00:27:17.240 maybe. After that comment about teachers earlier, 00:27:17.339 --> 00:27:20.299 you might need to. No, I've loved it. Thank you 00:27:20.299 --> 00:27:22.119 for the interview. I will happily talk coaching 00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:24.160 all day long. I hope for any coaches that are 00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:25.519 listening, there might be something in there 00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:27.099 that they're willing to just think differently. 00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:29.279 Because that's the point. Nobody's got the answer. 00:27:29.819 --> 00:27:31.519 But we've all got some ideas that ultimately 00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:33.960 blend together in our coaching practice. Thanks 00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:36.339 to Martin Dighton for his thought -provoking 00:27:36.339 --> 00:27:39.279 ideas there. Tim's off to listen back to his 00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:42.359 interviewing technique now. Enjoy listening to 00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:44.920 your coaching style. And it's never been more 00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:48.059 appropriate to finish as we normally do by thanking 00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:49.059 you for listening.