In this episode of The icoachcricket Podcast,
Charlotte Edwards is head coach of the England
women's team for the first time this summer.
She's no stranger to the set -up though, having
played more than 300 games for England across
different formats. As captain, she won everything
there was to win in the game. Since retiring
as a player in 2017, she's been busy coaching
at Hampshire and then the Southern Vipers, in
Australia and India, and at all the other big
franchise tournaments. And she's been busy working
as a commentator as well. Before her first game
in charge this summer, she sat down with Tim
Dellor to chat about her coaching journey and
what she's learned during the last eight years.
Here we are in Wokingham in the sunshine. It's
a good club here. it must feel like home for
you doesn't it coming back here yeah i lived
not too far away and throughout my playing days
um i spent many an hour up here in those nets
so um yeah it's a really nice venue it's developed
quite a lot in the last eight or nine years so
yeah it's been um nice to come back good great
to see you back here and eight years ago since
you september 2017 i remember when you finished
playing and that's well it seems quite a long
time ago to me does it go quickly for you Some
days it's gone quickly. Yeah, I mean, it doesn't,
when you think eight years and what's happened
in that time, a lot's happened. But yeah, it's
been obviously brilliant to have a career after
playing really. And I've thoroughly enjoyed that.
Yeah, like I say, there's been so many things
that have happened in the last eight years. Do
you in any way miss playing still? I get asked
that question quite a lot. No, I don't. I think
the only thing I miss is captaining. So being
out there, if I didn't have to field, it'd be
perfect. So, yeah, I don't. I think you retire
for a reason, probably because you don't want
to do it anymore. And I actually thought it was
going to be the hardest decision of my... sort
of cricketing career really was giving up but
it actually became quite easy in the end because
I didn't want to go out to bat so I thought if
I don't want to go out to bat this is probably
not going to bode well for me so you know it
was an easy decision in the end and now obviously
I'm sat here today. And it's interesting you
mentioned the captaincy element because well
you won't remember this but the last time we
met at Wokingham Cricket Club was to talk about
captaincy because you were actually captaining
England at the time so that well that must have
been 10 years ago or so I can't remember exactly
when it was and the transition from being a captain
to being a coach is probably far easier than
being a non -captain to a coach because some
of the skills a lot of the skills are overlapping
aren't they yeah i definitely it's made that
transition easier i think having done the captaincy
and i think understanding the responsibilities
and i think you understand what the coach actually
does in those situations and obviously because
you work very closely with the coach you understand
how important that relationship is well so it's
something i've really valued is the coach -captain
relationship throughout my coaching career and
how important that is to driving the team forward.
Yeah, I think it's definitely helped. I think
I've learned a lot from captaincy that I've not
done into coaching and I think that's for different
reasons. I think as a player you, and I've quite
publicly said this probably even over the last
month or so, I felt like I'm a much better coach
than I was captain. But I think only because,
you know, when you're captain, you get with playing,
you get that side of it. So there's a certain
way you think you need to be. And I wish I would
have probably taken more of my coaching attributes
into my captaincy. But who knows? I might not
have scored as many runs. So you just never know,
do you? Because that's a big part with playing
and captaining, obviously, isn't it? That you
have to look after your own game, arguably first
and foremost, because if your own game is not
in good order, you're not going to be a very
effective captain. Your team's not going to be
doing very well. And then... I suppose the other
elements to it, the tactical side, which over
time you get an understanding and a grasp of.
And then the management side, the leadership
side. So there are quite a lot of different elements
to captaincy. Yeah, there are. And that's what
I loved about the role. I think the difference
for me, I think going into coaching. I said this
the other day to some players, I think I've got
far more patience as a coach, which I never had
as a captain. I think I didn't have much patience.
But you bottled it up quite well, didn't you?
I mean, you might have been getting stinged up
inside, but you didn't, either, well, not that
I saw anyway. Yeah, I was probably, I wasn't,
when I look back, I was probably, I could be
quite aggressive, sort of type, or maybe not
particularly approachable sometimes, maybe for
younger players, which I think that's something
I do really well as a coach. And I think, I think
the important thing about any career is that
you've got to learn from your mistakes. I think
I'm pretty self -aware and aware of others, so
I think that's a big part of going into coaching
has really helped me. I maybe saw my downfalls
and I realised where I needed to improve as a
coach because you get away with it as a captain
because if you go and perform, everyone's happy,
aren't they? But you have to... you do have to
change your style. And I've managed to do that
through, you know, maybe learning from some errors
I've made as a captain. And I think the other
thing was more empathy. And I think the way my
England career ended was really good for me into
going into coaching because, you know, I effectively
got dropped and hadn't been dropped my whole
England career or probably my whole career. Whereas
now I've got so much empathy with people who
miss out and how you deliver those messages.
And so... You know, my mum said at the time,
you know, things happen for a reason. And I think
that happened maybe to help me when I became
a coach, which, you know, I think empathy and
patience, you need quite a lot of it. Yeah, I'm
sure in any coaching role, really. And that you
talk about aggressive. And I mean, for some people,
that's clear leadership, isn't it? I get up to
you, I suppose, how you reflect on your time
as a captain. And you're no better than anybody.
But a lot of people have said what a clear thinking
leader you were. and that there's quite a fine
line isn't there between being clear thinking
authoritative And, you know, you use the word
aggressive, but that can be a good thing, really.
Yeah, I was passionate. I think that's probably
the best way of, you know, I was hugely passionate
about the game, the team I was in. And I love
winning, you know, and I think sometimes that
does boil over. You know, you want you. But when
I got off the pitch and, you know, I think I,
you know, I didn't hold anything with. I used
to just go and sit. But, you know, I was hugely
competitive on the pitch. And that's how I'd
want any team that I'm involved in now to play
because. You know, it means something. And do
you love the game as much as you did? You have
to, don't you, as a coach, really? Because if
you fall out of love with it, it becomes very
hard work. I love the game more than I ever have,
you know. And I think you're absolutely right.
You have to in a role like a coach because you
don't get the playing element anymore or the
competitive element. And there's quite a lot
of the time you're sort of sat there watching
things unfold and you can't do anything about
it. So you've got to love it. I think I just
love watching people. get better, achieve their
goals. And that's quite rewarding. And that isn't
about winning or losing. That's about people,
I guess, developing. And I think a big part of
my role down at Hampshire and the success we
had there with the Southern Vipers was watching
players develop. And going to franchise cricket,
like when you go abroad, you probably don't...
get that element of coaching because it's all
about player management you know a month with
a team and you've got to win or lose so yeah
so I and I'm loving this you know going into
my my role with England now I feel like I'm back
into that sort of there's part of my role that
is going to be about development about getting
the next players through and I guess I'm really
really excited about that and you know looking
forward to the next challenge. So eight years
I mean yeah it's not that long since you were
playing but long enough for you to have got some
clear distance between playing and coaching which
is important isn't it because you sometimes see
people I think getting dropped into big coaching
roles too quickly after playing but you know
you're clearly you've... done the hard graft
to to get to where you've got to which is important
yeah and I think I've been quite deliberate in
the way I've gone about it I've had some really
good sort of advice from from coaches when I
stopped playing they said don't do a head coach
role too quickly and I probably took three three
years to whether I wanted and there was plenty
of roles there for me to do but I I didn't want
to jump into something like that having just
played for 20 years I didn't want that pressure
I wanted to understand coaching and I was really
lucky to get some opportunity at the Adelaide
Strikers as an assistant coach and Tim Nilsen
was the head of performance there and he was
really good and advising me about what to do
and yeah so I really value his input he had when
I stopped so I think I think I've had a really
nice pathway into coaching and obviously the
opportunities that came off at Hampshire with
the Southern Vipers and then obviously I've gone
on to do franchise gigs around the world. So
it's been a nice, it's been a progressive sort
of coaching, I guess, few years really. And the
Adelaide Strikers bit and the franchise coaching
around the world, that's really, I think, important,
isn't it, for coaches who are... at the top end
of the game to get that international experience
I'm not sure I mean at the moment I think about
football actually more than cricket here but
other sports how willing English coaches are
to go abroad relative to how many Australian
South African coaches I see who are willing to
come over here you know I mean it's it's not
for everyone is it because you have to up sticks
and go and spend a lot of time away from Wokingham
Cricket Club but but the regard that you know
it's a it's an important part of any coach's
development isn't it to spend a bit of time abroad
looking at cricket in different cultures and
different conditions yeah and I just feel like
I've been incredibly lucky to get some really
good opportunities like when I stopped playing
at Adelaide Strikers but then equally three years
ago getting the head coach role at the Sydney
Sixes and then Mumbai Indians you know the last
three years I've developed so much as a coach
through that international experience, just dealing
with best players, but equally auctions, drafts,
and going through all that process, I think,
has been really good. So, yeah, I feel like every
step I've kind of been ready for, and, yeah,
I guess it's obviously ended in, obviously, me
becoming the England women's head coach, which
probably three years ago I wasn't ready to do
that, but that experience I've had in the last
three years set me up. Do you like travelling?
I mean, because not everybody does. Do you like
getting on planes and seeing new places? It's
been my life, if I'm honest. So you do get used
to being away in the winter. I think if I was
to spend a winter in England, it would probably
be quite tough now. Drag on a bit. Yeah. However
much I do love coming home. And I think England
will always be my home. And I've always said
that. But I do love... going away and I've loved
I've loved the WPL as well there's been so many
elements to that in terms of the cultural stuff
and working with different players out there
and some of them didn't even understand me so
I've had to work in slightly different ways so
all of this stuff is has really helped me develop
as a coach and different styles because different
teams require different styles and I think that's
what you have to adapt to as a coach as well
that you have to be slightly different in with
the same values and what have you but i think
um that's one thing i've really enjoyed actually
is i can be slightly different in each of the
teams i've Worked in. I was going to ask you,
actually, because if you are travelling around,
which you have been for the last few years, you've
spent winters away and time here, do you get
time to pursue other hobbies outside of cricket?
Because, I mean, I've known you for quite a few
years now, not especially well, but we go back
a few years, and I only know you as a cricketer,
captain, coach, leader, all that side of it.
Are you a prolific reader or the travel element?
Do you get time to do much else outside of cricket
that you're interested in? it's the last three
years it's just been back to back cricket I think
I was saying the other day that I pretty much
had December and a bit of January off so I think
I had six weeks off like preparing a team competitively
to play and actually that became quite hard in
the end because you are you are on for literally
10 months of the year yes and and i don't think
people quite understand and sometimes i don't
think players quite understand you know you're
constantly preparing you're having to pick a
team you're having to then review a game you're
having to then prepare for the next one and i
mean it's so full -on it's it's really full -on
and it's probably towards the end of this sort
of three -year block i was you could you could
start to feel the fatigue and i think one of
my big things as a coach was i always wanted
to bring energy and i i probably was but i was
i it felt like it was properly starting to drain
me because um because when you're working for
10 months a year and you know the highs and lows
of of cricket you know last year wasn't a particularly
great year like i'd had the success of 2023 we
won double and i won the wpl and then last year
was a pretty tough year if i'm honest but I stayed
the same throughout. And then, you know, to go
over to the WPL this year and obviously achieve,
you know, that success again. What it made me
realise was you've got to enjoy those moments
because I didn't have a very good 2024. And I
was like, oh, God, this is tough. But it was
really good for me, you know, because I've had
quite a lot of success in my coaching career
up until then. And last year, you know, came
last in the hundred. But it's all part of this
development piece, I think, as I'm growing as
a coach constantly. And I don't think you're
ever the finished article. cool how do you find
managing the emotions because you say about having
successful periods and then periods where it
doesn't go quite so well and you know one of
the things we talk about a lot in coaching isn't
it is even keel and just staying level and it's
all very easy to say but actually it takes a
hell of a lot of energy and self -awareness actually
you mentioned already to sort of manage your
way through that do you find that natural and
easy or is that still something you have to work
at no I if anything I found that part of it quite
easy because I I think you understand the impact
you can have on a player through your emotions
and your behaviours. And you're absolutely right.
One of my coaching principles is being consistent
and staying really level because the last thing
I would want is a player to feel pressure from
me because our job is to take the pressure off
the players. Trevor Bates always said that. That
was his number one thing was take pressure away
from the players rather than in any way add to
that. You know, you can't remove everything because...
The game is about performance, but equally some
stuff that you can remove or certainly how I
behave around the players. I would hate that
to be a factor to them not being successful on
the pitch. So I find that quite easy because
that's my competitive side because I want them
to do really well. So I've got to manage my behaviours
to make sure they're in the best possible place
to perform. In all of this stuff, you're just
learning constantly. And I mean, I'm certainly
not the finished article, but... I think what
I have done is learnt a lot. I reflect really
well. I think that's really important. You've
got good people around you who are always mentoring
and supporting you, which I think, again, is
so important. When I was driving over here today,
I was wondering what I was going to ask you.
I thought I wanted role models and you were talking
about having good people around you. And just
when you were talking there about taking pressure
off, perhaps you experienced as a player times
where... you felt pressure was being heaped upon
you by coaches rather than taken off you I don't
know but have you got role models who you sort
of look back on who you think yeah that or some
of what they did you want to emulate and sort
of picked up bits along the way from having worked
under coaches yeah I think that's something I
was at the time I probably didn't realize I was
doing it but I was quite inquisitive as a player
and curious yeah and I think I worked with so
many coaches and I tried to just take bits and
bobs from all of them because i think every coach
has got strengths and weaknesses and i always
just tried to to see the strengths and i think
over covid was when i decided i was going to
take on this hampshire role as head coach and
i kind of wrote down a lot of things about all
the coaches that i'd worked with that i kind
of yeah i like that i didn't like that as much
so you kind of went through and thought yeah
that's that's what i would like to be like as
a coach so that covid time was i think a really
good time for me to just assess what kind of
coach i wanted to be and there's a lot of strands
to it which i realized but but going back to
your point you know i was i was really lucky
obviously mark lane i worked with with england
2009 he was you know he was someone that you
know i had a really good a bond with in terms
of captain the coach relationship and i just
he bought a lot of fun um but a serious side
to him as well which I I really enjoyed and Paul
Shaw he was he was coaching England and you know
I liked the way he brought the team together
the cultural stuff which was really good David
Capel was an assistant at the time he's someone
who'd mentored me for a long time as a player
so I had someone I really trusted so then you
start to realize you need people around you really
trust as well so I knew when I got a coaching
role I'd want you know, good people around me
who challenge, I think you've got to have people
who challenge you as well. I don't want people
just sitting there going, yes, Charlotte, yeah,
I agree with you. I actually really, I really,
and Paul Pritchard, who I, who's now taken over
from, for me from Hampshire, he was someone I
really always valued in, in the Hampshire set
up because he would always ring me up, give me
his point of view and it wouldn't be the same
as mine, but he totally respects that it was
my decision, but he wanted to, yeah, but he would
always make me think of something. I'd go, Yeah,
that's a really good point. They're the best
assistants, aren't they? The people that you
want around you. Because if they just nod, say
yes and agree with everything, then you're not
adding anything, are you? Yeah, and that's one
thing, I think one of my probably strengths as
a coach, I really like asking people their opinions.
But I know that I will always go with what I
think. But their opinions really count because
they've probably made me think slightly differently.
But ultimately, I always say in coaching, I've
got to be the one that delivers the decision.
And I've got to be really comfortable with that
decision. And I've got to tell that player why
they're not playing. And it's something I really,
I think I really respect that. And I've respected
that, obviously, from playing days until now,
that that's a big call to make. So you've got
to be as prepared as you possibly can and deliver
it in the best possible way you can. And I was
interested in those names that you've thrown
out there. Coaches are well known and have been
very successful at different times. I always
thought your generation was the first that would
have a whole batch of really top female coaches.
And you've proved that, but you're not alone.
You've got lots of others from your generation.
There weren't many before you were there and
the whole got to see it to be it. I don't know
if that ever made you sort of nervous about the
future of coaching for you or whether you realised
and had the understanding, confidence that...
It was going to be different for your generation.
I did. I never thought I'd be in this position
where I'd be, you know, probably a full -time
coach of, well, certainly the England team. You
didn't think that? No. I was absolutely sure
you were going to be doing it. Honestly, 10 years
ago, I was convinced that was your future. Well,
I think probably more the domestic set -up being
a full -time head coach. You know, that seemed
a long way off probably six or seven years ago.
Just because of where the game was. Yeah, and
the franchise stuff that I've managed to do in
the last... little bit as well I think that's
really surprised me I look I've always had ambition
to coach England I think once I decided coaching
was the path for me you want to coach at the
highest level and you know you you want to coach
internationally but it was all about timing and
the right time for that and this just felt completely
the right time for me, having had the experiences
I've had and the opportunities I've had over
the last few years. I mean, life is so much about
timing, isn't it? You need the right things to
come up at the right time and to all fit together.
You do. And it felt, you know, this was just
fitting together really nicely because I think
I had come to a point at Hampshire where potentially,
you know, I'd coached that team for five years.
You feel like how much more can you give to that
group? We've done most of the franchise teams
for three or four years, which feels like a good
chunk of time as well. So it did feel like it
was... the time but yeah you never know when
that's going to be i couldn't have predicted
at christmas that i'd be sat here now whether
a vacancy comes up at the right time all those
sorts of things yeah and so from now so for the
next month or so i'm always interested when you're
starting i mean you must know all the players
so well anyway presumably some better than others
but all of them well you'll you'll know your
sort of coaches that you'll be working alongside
but you must be spending every possible minute
available trying to get to know all the people
better as a start point is that or or what's
the priority at this stage oh yeah i mean a big
part of my coaching principles have been about
relationships so I've got I've got to build strong
relationships and that's going to be done over
the next little bit I've been really lucky that
I know a lot of the players like you say but
they're watching some cricket which is going
to be a bit different for me because normally
I'm full on into a season by now so I've I've
I'm looking at things slightly differently now
and it's you know it's quite nice I'm going to
go to a game tomorrow and just watch observing
time is so important isn't it because I remember
that I think it was Duncan Fletcher the stories
about how he had spent hours and hours watching
actually they thought he was a fraud when he
first turned up because he literally said nothing
for months and months at Glamorgan I think it
was and then gradually became more active interacting
more with the players and offering feedback and
that sort of thing so to start with you know
if you've got the luxury of a bit of time to
observe before you have to dive in that's a good
thing and it was really nice you know I had two
weeks with the players which I really valued
and it was it was really nice not to just go
straight into an international series so I think
you know we've set things up them to go away
now and play because that was one of the big
things me coming into this role I wanted them
to play more and I wanted them to play more competitive
cricket at county level which they haven't done
for a few years so I'm excited by that and I
think hopefully what will come across is that
I love the women's game I love England cricket
but equally I really value county cricket and
I see the important part that that plays in in
developing England cricketers and I've had lots
of conversations and you know that It's not just
around the players, it's building relationships
with all the counties so they understand where
we want to take these players and what players
we want to see and if they can in any way help
us on this journey. Because I think we've all
got to work together to get England back to where
we want them to get back to. I'm really confident
we can do that quickly. I think, you know, the
winter was disappointing. But, you know, we've
all seen the talent in the England team. And,
yeah, I think hopefully we can get on back on
track. And we've got a World Cup in October,
which I'm pretty excited about. Yeah. And the
last thing I was going to ask you about is the
future beyond that and the next. The exciting
thing about the women's game, you said just there.
you love the women's game and what makes it so
appealing to so many people i think is it's the
speed of evolving is incredible isn't it if you
think back even to eight years ago i keep going
eight years when when you when you played but
the last 10 years when you were playing as well
so you go the last 20 years it has basically
changed out of all recognition and it makes you
wonder when we're sitting at Wokingham Cricket Club
in 10 years time, where the game will be by then.
I mean, that makes it exciting, doesn't it? Have
to try and keep up and horizon scanning all the
time. Yeah, I mean, the last five years has just
been incredible. And yeah, I often have to sort
of sit back and go, wow, this is this is pretty
special, especially, you know. When I've been
sat in India in a WPL final and you can see not
just the people in the ground, but you know the
impact that game is having worldwide. The eyes
on that tournament now. And the skills on the
pitch. That's the start and end of it, isn't
it? That's the thing now. It sort of blows your
mind a little bit to think how quickly the game's
evolved and where it will go to, because there's
no doubt about it. that's the great thing now
you know young girls will hopefully choose cricket
over other sports which previously probably have
chosen i think we're in a really strong position
but, you know, obviously my lens is on England
and making us as strong as we possibly can. Well,
look, good luck. It's been great to catch up
again. I hope you enjoy it, carry on enjoying
it as much as you clearly do. I'm sure you'll
have your good moments, won't you? And then you'll
have moments where you're thinking, oh, dear,
this is hard at work. But that's the nature of
it, isn't it? I'm sure you'll love it. Yeah,
thanks, Tim. Thanks very much. That's Charlotte
Edwards, England captain turned head coach. Good
luck to her in her new role. That's it for this
episode of The icoachcricket Podcast. Thanks
for listening.