Jennifer Jackson-Tullett is an ECB Level 4 coach
who's head of the Talent Pathway for Surrey County
Cricket Club. She runs the county academy and
spends time coaching the bowlers in the programme.
She's based at The Oval in central London but
has to oversee a big region stretching across
the southeast. Tim Dellor's been chatting to
her and Jennifer explained the significance of
where they met. At the Oval and JJ what room
are we in here and just talk us through where
we're sitting because this is quite spectacular
as cricketing venues go to have a have a natter.
Yeah not bad so we're currently in the Alcock
room and this is used for players and staff dining
at the moment on a match day it would host members
so we're kind of like at the top of the members
pavilion lovely view out across the square overlooking.
Probably one of the best grounds in the country.
You can't argue with that. It's so central in
London, isn't it? And the pavilion is sensational
at the Oval, isn't it? It's a while since I've
been here, but it's like a museum with all the
portraits. Is there a portrait of you? I mean,
you're relatively new to it, I suppose. No, but
funny you should say that. So for International
Women's Day, they are going to do a big photo
of all of the people involved in Surrey that
are women. So there will be a photo of me somewhere
in there. But yeah, I think one of the best things
about coming to The Oval is the history of it.
And they're not shy in kind of showing that to
everybody. And as we walked up the stairs earlier,
it was all filled with all the museum artefacts.
And what's really, really cool is they now have
a special section for the women's game and the
history of women's cricket at Surrey, which is
also really cool. Because the portraits, quite
naturally, I mean, there's a guy there who must
be from the 1800s, I'm guessing. He's got fantastic
sideburns and amazing hair. And he's quite male
-dominated, isn't he? Which I suppose is a bit
of a timely reminder as to how much the game's
moved on. in the last 20 years but before that
wasn't really happening was it? Yeah exactly
that but one thing I would say about Surrey is
they've been so brilliant in welcoming the women's
side on board and just like making sure that
we're fully supported in everything that we want
to do and making sure that we feel equal whenever
we come in. Yeah, and what a place to come to
work. The squad are busy. You've got the academy
players to look after. You've got the first team,
obviously, as well. And it's a quite exciting
time of year, really, isn't it? I don't know
what's going to happen in the next few months.
Yeah, I really like this time of year, actually,
I think. Where the winter feels like it's been
a really long slog, this block, especially in
the academy, we get into the bat versus ball,
the competition phase, where we can actually
see all of this hard work that you've done, how
does it look when we're getting into game scenarios?
So the girls absolutely love this bit. I really
enjoy this bit. And I think, well, it's kind
of sunny today, so it makes you look forward
to the summer. If you think back to February,
January, December, November, does it drag on
a bit for you or are you okay with it? Because
it's not everyone's cup of tea. It always seems
a month too long, doesn't it? You get to a point
where you're absolutely itching. I think I kind
of sit in both sides in that I wish I had longer,
but also sometimes it can drag on. I'm really
lucky that the people that I get to work with
in the academy space come up with such cool and
creative ideas that actually it still feels fresh
even in February. So sometimes I wish we had
a little bit longer so I could really nail down
with some stuff. But I do know what you mean,
especially if you play an outdoor sport and then
you're stuck inside for a long time. It can be
a bit of a drag, but... We've got people that
think outside the box and it makes it fun. So
the people and reinventing all the practices
and coming up with things. I mean, I don't want
to suggest you've been coaching for too long,
but you have definitely done a few seasons now.
Is that fair? And yet no doubt you're still seeing
stuff for the first time, which keeps it interesting.
Yeah, absolutely. I think I first started coaching
cricket when I was 18. So that's nearly 17 years
that I've been coaching, which I feel like I'm
still really new into it because... I've only
been full time coaching for a few years, but
I do feel like you kind of get a little bit stuck
in your ways. But actually, like I'll use one
example, like Marcus Campopiano, our strength
and conditioning coach. He also plays cricket
and he just comes up with some really, really
cool ideas of how we can implement skills alongside
the strength and conditioning to make sure that
actually. the girls are getting like a really
holistic session stuff like that that actually
makes me think about stuff a little bit different
i'm like a massive fan of and working alongside
really good people must be the key to keep it
engaging and motivated and interesting because
if you're always rubbing shoulders and you can
peer through the net and see someone else doing
something funky that you haven't done before
yourself that must really keep you just engaged
with the whole process whereas if you're on your
own or working with the same people all the time
it might migrate a bit yeah absolutely and i
think like i as a coach i'm always wanting to
learn like and i really like learning from other
people but then you've all got the other side
of it the academy staff that i work with and
that kind of like lead us through the program
i probably see them more than i see my family
so actually having a really good working relationship
with them is so important, not just for keeping
ideas fresh, but also just making sure that the
environment is a really positive one for staff,
players, like everybody involved. If everyone's
on the same page, that makes life very straightforward
for you, I guess. Yeah, absolutely. With my role
at the moment at Surrey, I oversee the whole
of the talent pathway. And so part of my role
is... kind of filtering down my visions of what
the pathway should be to all of the staff underneath
me. And I think we've got all of the best people
in place for me to be able to pass on that message
and for that message to be filtered down the
pathway to keep creating the environment and
the way of coaching that we want to see throughout.
the whole of surrey and i always wonder how difficult
that must be in terms of communicating it and
because they're often in football they talk a
lot don't they about the dna of a club and having
that running all the way from top to bottom or
across or however you want to look at it if you're
the one who's having to implement it and come
up with the strategy that can't be easy to try
and filter it all the way down the systems have
to be right and the communication has to be right
okay it can't be an easy thing No it's definitely
a challenge but it's one that I really enjoy
as part of my role and actually the transition
from South East Stars to Surrey and the whole
new structure of women's cricket has made it
difficult but actually I feel like recently we've
started to make some strides in that so last
week we held like a CPD day for all of the coaches
within the Kent pathway and the Surrey pathway
and I invited the senior coaches to come in and
talk about the vision of the type of cricket
we want to play at the top and how that might
look throughout the pathway how that might link
to talent id so all of those kind of cpd days
that we offer and i'm always very clear with
the fact that the door to academy and epp is
always open so if anybody wants to come in and
see what we're doing and kind of see the things
that we offer the girls at the higher level and
how they can then filter it back down like they're
more than welcome to so While it is a challenge,
it's one that I really enjoy and it's probably
my favourite part of the role is seeing that
CPD and how it then lands with other people and
then going into the pathway and seeing them put
it in place as well. The thing I really enjoy
is the horizon scanning. So it's all very well
having that DNA running all over through the
club for now, but if you're a 13... I mean, I
think this is particularly in the women's and
the girls' game, actually, I would suggest, even
more than in the men's and the boys' game. And
so if you set up a 14 -year -old cricketer now
to deal with what they currently need to do at
the top level, when they get to the top level
in six, seven, eight years' time, the game will
have moved on that much, won't it? So actually,
you've got to be aware of that, I suppose, haven't
you? And just think, what do these girls need
when they're fully fledged international women's
players? Yeah, and I'm also very well aware in
my role that... I have a group of academy players
and then underneath that we have a whole pathway
of players that while we would like them to be
professional and represent Surrey in the future,
they might not. They might represent another
county and they might choose to go somewhere
else. So our role is to prepare them for whatever
level of cricket is going to be their best level
of cricket. For some that might be international
cricket, for some that might be playing for Surrey,
for some that might be tier two cricket, but
we have a role to play in their development.
And we've always got to be pushing them for what
their best is. And that might look different
in terms of how quickly the structure of women's
cricket kind of like embeds itself and how the
two tier systems work. And obviously lots happening
with England women at the moment and how that
might look in the future. So the future is always
changing. But I do think if you just stick with
actually those individuals that are in front
of me, I want to make sure I'm getting the best.
out of them for them. I think that kind of helps
you in terms of where they're going to go in
the future. I think you used the word holistic
earlier on. Are you thinking beyond just cricket
as well with their development? So as you say,
the sheer numbers that you're dealing with, there's
no way they're all going to be pros, however
good that batch might be. So do you look at it
as a sort of device for that? further education
beyond just cricket because again there's a lot
of chat in football isn't there about the drop
-off and the rather brutal world of you get to
the age of 16 you've only ever dreamt of being
a footballer then the academy director you calls
the player in says you you're not going to have
a career in football and then they're on the
scrap heap do you try and soften that a little
bit that whole process I am 100 % on board that
my coaching philosophy is that I want to develop
the person first and the cricketer second. So
as you say, lots of players coming through now
and the talent pool is so much bigger than it
ever was. There's a really, really high number
of those players that are not going to be professional.
But if we can impact their lives in such a way
that they have a lifelong love of the game and
they want to work in cricket, whether it's a
coach, whether it's a physio, SSE or... operations
manager or commentator or anything like that
where they're still involved in the game that
they love i think that my role is offering them
all of the ways that they can develop outside
of just cricket so yeah the sponsors as well
you know if they become big in business and then
they still love the game they could end up playing
a crucial role couldn't they and pumping money
in so any number of different angles and i suppose
you're not talking necessarily to your 13 or
14 year olds about all those I don't know maybe
you are but all those possible careers within
cricket it's more just trying to give them skills
that could in the future lend themselves well
to going into that is that is that it because
you don't want to it's quite a difficult balance
isn't it because you don't want to take their
focus off playing and trying to be as good as
they can be as a player you don't want to dampen
those dreams but at the same time it's a as you
say it's a responsibility to try and make them
well -rounded yeah i think that's maybe where
i sit slightly differently in the fact that i'm
very much like a realist i will speak to my players
in a very realistic way and i'll say that if
i had the group of academy players and i did
in the pre -season induction i said to them look
a lot of you won't be professionals but what
you could be is all of these other things which
are still impacting the game so yeah i will I'll
say it to them. You're quite straight up about
it. Yeah, that's quite refreshing because I reckon
a lot of people are a bit afraid of doing that
because they just want the players to stay so
focused on playing, playing, playing, don't you?
And maybe if you do that, you're doing them a
bit of a disservice. Yeah, but I think it comes
back to my philosophy in that it's always the
person first. And while cricket is a massive
part of their life now, there's so many other
things. A lot of the girls in my academy are
doing their A -levels, doing their GCSEs. There
is more to their life than just cricket. So I
think I would be doing them a disservice in my
role if I was just focusing on the cricket. If
I was taking them away from their lives for 10
hours a week and only concentrating on the cricket,
I think that I would not be doing my job properly.
And let's talk about the cricket, having said
that. So you're very much... overarching as or
managing the program but I presume you're still
getting some time hopefully to do coaching because
that's the danger isn't it you become a bit like
a head teacher where you spend years and years
in the classroom loving that and then you get
the top job and you never get to see a it's not
chalk and blackboard anymore is it but interactive
whiteboard thank you very much yes an interactive
you never get anywhere near an interactive whiteboard
yeah absolutely and I think I'm really lucky
in my role because I go across other programs
while in the academy space I'm kind of overseeing
stuff I then can still do hands -on coaching
in the senior space with the bowlers I hands
-on coach in the EPP space I'm also very aware
of what my specialism is in coaching so I'll
still work with the spinners and I'll still do
the fielding but I have other spaces that I can
go into to get the hands -on stuff spin bowling
yeah the fielding And when I was at times where
I've been working in cricket, I've always tried
to make sure that if somebody doesn't turn up
at the last minute, I can get away with delivering
a session of whatever their specialism may have
been. Yeah, absolutely that. So I like to think
that I'm a jack of all trades in that I could
deliver on anything to the standard that I would
want it to be if that arose. But then I also
think that... I have such a good staff group
that work within that academy space that I would
trust any of them to also do the same thing.
So if I had a bowling lead that was doing a bowling
session but then I needed someone to do a batting
session of batting against spin, I would absolutely
trust them to go in and do that as well. Who
have been your big influences? So I'm thinking
which maybe coaches or maybe other players or
maybe people even outside of cricket have...
helped your thinking and got you to where you
are now do you think so it's a very interesting
question and i actually always struggle to answer
this because i can't really think in cricket
as a player i can't think of any coaches that
i thought right like i want to be like that but
i think it's because when i was a player i never
wanted to be a coach Oh, didn't you? I'm surprised
for that. Obviously, when did I first meet you?
Ten years ago? Yeah. So it wasn't that long ago.
Okay. And I thought immediately I'll get a coach
written all over you. So that wasn't always the
plan. And I don't know whether that's because
it didn't seem like a career option back then.
Oh, yes. You have to see it to be it. And actually,
in your time, there wasn't much of it to see,
was there? Absolutely not. And I think I kind
of... fell into coaching I would say when I was
18 and still playing the Kent under 11 coach
was like oh like would you like to come in and
help out I was like yeah great I'll do a bit
of that and then I just never stopped so I always
coached part -time throughout my whole playing
career and then became a teacher still coached
part -time maybe I always knew that I wanted
to do coaching because I think I went into teaching
because I wanted that same kind of thing But
then teaching wasn't the right fit. And then
I think I was just really lucky that when I was
ready to leave teaching was also the time where
the regional game was taking off and there was
more actual job roles. Because I think it's also
not very easy at all to try and be a coach when
you're just working kind of like ad hoc part
time hours. So unless there is actually that
full time coaching work available, it's very
difficult to actually go into that as a career.
So, yeah, I kind of fell into it. Who has influenced
me on that journey? I'm not entirely sure yet.
I think I'm influenced every day by the people
that I work with. But I couldn't pick out someone.
It would be like a jigsaw, lots of different
people contributing little things rather than
one overarching role model. Yeah, I absolutely
think that. And I'm super lucky in the team that
I work with in Surrey that everyone is so different
and they all have their own strengths and skills
that actually... each one of them then influences
the way I coach in a very different way. Let's
look at the last 10 years then. What have been
some of the key lessons of learning that you've
had through coaching or through being so heavily
involved in cricket? So I think one of the biggest
ones for me is that it's not my journey, it's
theirs. The players? Yeah, so like as a coach,
I am there to facilitate their development rather
than... head coach of like a county age group
team and them being really successful I saw it
as a good reflection on me but actually it's
got nothing to do with that them being successful
is it a good reflection on how well they've developed
and the environment that I'm creating for those
players and so that's definitely been one of
the biggest learnings for me just and the selflessness
of that it's quite jarring with being a player
isn't it because a player it definitely is a
reflection on you if you scored 100 or you've
taken five wickets but then you become a coach
and it is quite i think quite a lot of ex -players
and especially recent ex -players that's quite
a difficult transition to make that whole mindset
from being all about you and reflected on you
to then being all about the team and them. Yeah,
and I think one thing that I'm really proud of
is the feedback that I get around the players
that I coach when they go into other environments
about their attitude, their character, their
behaviours. And I feel like that reflects on
me more than if they were to go score 100 for
England. So it's more about the values and the
behaviours. Yeah, which I think is what I lean
more towards to naturally. But yeah, I think
that's definitely my biggest learning. And then
another one. is probably that I can ask for help
a lot more than I do. Does that come with confidence
and maybe experience? Because when you first
start, you're so eager to... Not you. Well, you
may have been. Let's all be honest and put our
hands up here. When you first start, you want
to make a good impression, you want to show everyone
how much you know, and then when you get a bit
more sure of yourself, you can then ask more
relaxed and openly. I don't want to get, like,
all political, but I think there's another nuance
in terms of being a female coach male environment
I think I used to feel like I didn't want to
look like I didn't know what I was doing whereas
now where I've kind of like grown in this environment
and grown as a coach I've realized that actually
asking for help as and when you need it is more
of a strength and actually you're showing other
people that that's okay too rather than pretending
everything's fine and then probably doing things
wrong it's definitely come with growing as a
coach but also being more confident as a woman
in a more male environment. Yeah, and I suppose
it takes a while for you to realise that you
know just as much as male coaches. And then what...
I was going to come to that. And then once you
can acknowledge that and you've got that sort
of confidence and belief in yourself, then you're
entirely open and relaxed, aren't you, to go
and ask the right questions. The other thing
is the more you know, the more you realise you
don't know. I don't know if you get any of that,
but the more... years you've put into the game
it just becomes for me anyway it becomes apparent
that there's just a whole lot more out there
that you want to explore and get to know yeah
I almost feel like I know less now than I knew
yeah 10 years ago like that's really exciting
because I love learning so I just feel like there's
so much more that I can keep getting better at
but I also know that I'm never gonna feel like
I know it all and I think that that's a really
good place to be if I get to a point where I
feel like I know it all I know that I should
probably stop yeah yeah I think that's on my
off I'm sure that's interesting definitely that
whole philosophy and you know when we talk about
coaching philosophy on these courses so you did
the level three and the level four courses and
they talk about coaching philosophy has that
changed very much do you think maybe it's with
the roles that you've had to do I don't know
whether my the bones of the coaching philosophy
have changed but How strongly I believe in it
has definitely changed. I think it comes back
to the confidence thing in that I probably had
a coaching philosophy before but didn't actually
feel that I could deliver it. So then I probably
changed my coaching philosophy to be something
quite easy. But now I fully believe my coaching
philosophy and I think it leads in everywhere
that I want to go. That being said, I know that
my coaching philosophy links very nicely to me
working in development cricket. So if I ever
do want to take the branch into professional
cricket, my philosophy may change. It may not,
but it's definitely not set in stone. I'm more
confident about it than ever was. What about
what you most love about coaching and your world?
So there must be things that get you out of bed
in the morning and really still excite you. They're
bound to be other. Someone used to say about
having an 80 -20 job, so as long as you're enjoying
80 % of it, there's 20 % of drudgery in most
jobs and you just sort of get on with that, that's
fine. As long as you can get to more than 50%,
you're probably happy. What are the bits of your
job or the bits of coaching that you still really
love? I get a lot of energy from the actual hands
-on coaching still, so I absolutely love that,
specifically working with bowlers, just because
that's kind of like... where my passion lies
but yeah any of the hands -on coaching parts
absolutely love i also think i just really love
seeing a player's journey they first come into
the academy and then seeing where they might
be in three years there's something about seeing
them develop throughout that journey that is
just really cool and like i've got some players
on the academy at the moment now that i've been
working with for three years where they are now
compared to where they started is just so different.
And you kind of wish that you could have taken
a picture about them and now you're showing it
to them. But yeah, I think that really motivates
me and really drives me. But I also think the
relationships with the players, as I spoke earlier,
they're not all going to be professionals. But
a lot of them who have either left the academy
or decided to transition to other things, if
I still see them, the relationship is still so
good and so strong. And I feel when a player
comes back and they went... God, when you were
really honest with me and you did this and you
did this, it changed my life. Like that kind
of stuff. I guess that kind of sits deeper than
just the coaching. Those relationships and the
bonds that you form with the people that you
see. You just don't get that in insurance or
tax advice, do you? Well, you might do. I don't
think so. There is something special about sports
and the bonds you make in it, isn't there? Especially
in cricket. I think because you spend so much
time together in a season. Yeah, and highs and
lows. It's a bit of an emotional rollercoaster,
and that probably tightens you as well. Yeah,
and with cricket, it's obviously a team sport,
but there's individual aspects within that. One
individual might be having a really tough time,
but then the team pulls them back, and we might
have a two -week stretch where we've got a two
-day game, a three -day game, and they're all
away. So spending 10 days together, those relationships
that you build in that space, outside of just
being on the pitch. are so important yeah i'm
really interested what you're saying about the
growth of players and monitoring that as well
and wishing that you could go back three years
and have a picture next to where they are now
because you must have data and there are some
measurables aren't there that you must do in
your in your role at the academy to see how players
are progressing what what talk us through some
of some of that how you do monitor players progression
yeah absolutely so we have a lot of like the
physical monitoring stuff your fitness monitoring
in terms of how strong they are, how fit they
are, stamina and all that kind of stuff. So you
have a lot of data on that, which is very objective.
But we also take a lot of footage of skills.
We also have the girls creating their own IDPs
and obviously they track from when they first
created their IDP, the goals that they keep adding
and the progressions that they're making. And
then I also have my own coach version of their
IDP, which the players don't see, but the coaches
see. And it basically just outlines within their
skill sets, basically like a rag rating, I guess,
of where they are at each point within the years.
Oh, it's interesting you do two versions of that.
So the players version and then the coaches confidential
version. That must throw up some interesting
conversations, I'm guessing, if there's some
disparities there. Yeah, absolutely that. So
with the players one. there is always a section
that I write my notes in. They see some of what
you're thinking. They always know where I think
there's areas for development. But I think having
the one with just the coach's eyes on, I think
allows us to just be very honest in where we
actually see that player and what the journey
of that player may be. Are you quite a data...
Did you do a PhD or a Masters in... I can't remember
what you were doing. I've got a Masters in Criminology
and Forensic Psych. Right, well, that's not really
data, is it? Not really anything to do with anything,
actually. Is that in any way useful? Just say
that again slowly. Criminology and... Forensic
Psychology. So you shouldn't have been a copper.
Well, so... This is where this whole conversation
of didn't ever want to be a coach comes back
to. Oh, yes, you were the accidental coach. The
accidental coach who... May not want to be a
coach forever, but would really like to interview
criminals. Okay. So that's like another just...
It must help with communication skills and reading
body language. I'm really clutching at straws
here. Go on, help me out. No, I say this to anybody
that if you're wondering, like if you really
want to go to university but you don't know what
to study, study psychology. Yeah. Because I just
think it is in everything. So everything that
I do as a coach is 100 % influenced by all of
my psychological knowledge. So, yeah. So every
decision you take is based on their mental, the
players and yours, I suppose, and the teams and
the mental state of everybody around them. And
you can read that and try and act appropriately
with that knowledge. Yeah, absolutely. And every
decision I make, every conversation I have. there's
like a ripple effect. So understanding what that
ripple effect might be is really important. That
doesn't mean I shy away from difficult conversations.
It just means that I understand what's going
to come next. Yeah. So that criminology and forensic...
Psychology. So there was definitely a use to
your subsequent coaching skill. Yeah, but also,
like, I really enjoyed the course and I'm glad
I did it. So whether it has impact on my coaching
or not, it was still a really... cool thing to
do do the players know that by the way yeah so
like going back to the idp stuff so one of the
things that we do in the academy space is every
player will present their idp to the group which
is a really really cool thing and i love that
part of the program and then i present mine as
well they pretty much know everything about how
i've got here and where i want to go yeah so
i'm just thinking Things like discipline on your
pre -season tour that may or may not happen.
Because you always have this, don't you? It doesn't
matter what cricket you're in. People will say
they're doing one thing and might be doing another
at some point. And I'm thinking if they are aware
of your background, they might be a little less
keen to try their luck. Maybe, but whenever I
mention it, when I was doing my teaching degree,
one of my placements, I worked in a prison. And
so, like, they love that. And so the fact that
they know that I've worked in prisons, sometimes
they do get a little bit scared. That's very
interesting, isn't it? Is working in prisons
like working in county cricket? I would say that
there is absolutely no way that they could be
similar. We spend a lot of time together, sometimes
in confined space. On a tour, it can be quite...
Yeah, and actually, when I did go on tour to
South Africa when I was playing for Kent, we
did stay in a hotel that used to be a prison.
OK, that's very interesting. Right, just to finish,
and we have touched on this already, but the
way the game is moving and where you think it's
going to be in a few years' time, what are you
excited about seeing over the next few years
and the way the women's game's developing? So
I think this comes back to the fact that I love
fielding. But I just think the athleticism of
the game is going to get stronger year on year
on year. And I think we're starting to see it
now. But I think the fielding in the game is
going to be something that changes the game.
The skills of batting and bowling, they will
also keep increasing. But I think if you're a
good fielder in the next five years, you're going
to change the game. So I'm really excited about
that. And I just think more people... engaging
with women's cricket is also going to be exciting.
And I know, like I touched on it before, that
the England women have had a tough time. But
one of the best things for me that's come out
of that is how many people are actually holding
them accountable because people care about women's
cricket now. While it hasn't been great because
it's been negative press and negative feedback,
the amount of people that are talking about it
is really, really positive. That's going to start
becoming more. And that's probably going to filter
down from just England to now into county because
we're now part of a massive family and people
are going to want us to do well. And so they
will hold us accountable for things. It's really
interesting because a few years ago, it was all
very nicey -nicey. You'd never hear any public
criticism in the media or in just conversation
generally of women's sport. No one, I don't know
if it was just they didn't dare or they just
felt it was a negative way of going. But now,
and I always said, I remember saying years and
years ago, until people are... negative at times
and critical at times and demonstrate they're
taking it seriously it's not quite happening
is it women's sport but now there's a very well
sometimes maybe it goes too far but very honest
conversations about performance levels and you
know people are super scrutinizing i suppose
it's just there's more money in it and it's a
much higher level of of play than it perhaps
was 15 20 years ago but so that's definitely
happening isn't that yeah absolutely but i also
think that people are criticizing and they're
talking about it because they care about it critiquing
actually isn't it that's yeah so they're not
just saying oh women's cricket is rubbish they're
saying we didn't do this well enough that's so
different because actually you're looking at
the performance and you're giving up to a point
an objective point of view which I think it's
something that the girls are going to have to
get used to, because it can feel like you take
it very personally, but it's not a personal attack.
It's an attack on the things that you should
be held accountable for if you're a professional
athlete. I see it as a really good thing, and
actually I say to the girls in the academy quite
a lot, if there is a point in a review meeting
where I have to be like, this isn't good enough
right now, I'm not doing it because I'm trying
to be mean. I'm doing it because I really care.
And I really want you to get better. The ability
to take on constructive criticism is going to
be, I think, one of the biggest things that players
are going to have to learn over the next few
years. So players of the future are going to
need to cope with that more and more, aren't
they? And have that ability to recognise it as
a positive and recognise it as an important part
of their development. Yeah, absolutely that.
And it's not a personal attack, it's because...
People want you to be better. JJ, that was very
good. And we went into some areas there. I mean,
the criminology, that springs out. The teaching
bit. Yeah, the working in prisons. Goodness me,
we went on a few tangents there. Yeah, and I
think it always comes back to my philosophy in
that, yes, I'm a cricket coach, but there's so
much more to me. And I think that about all of
my players as well. Yes, they play cricket, but
there's so much more to them that isn't just
cricket. And hopefully you can see that in me
too. Very thought-provoking. Thank you very
much for your time. Really enjoyed it. Thank
you very much. Jennifer Jackson-Tullett speaking
at The Oval. Thanks to her for her time. That's
it for this episode of The icoachcricket Podcast.
There'll be another episode ready to download
this time next week. But for now, thanks for
listening.