WEBVTT 00:00:02.840 --> 00:00:06.559 Jennifer Jackson-Tullett is an ECB Level 4 coach 00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:09.199 who's head of the Talent Pathway for Surrey County 00:00:09.199 --> 00:00:12.099 Cricket Club. She runs the county academy and 00:00:12.099 --> 00:00:14.199 spends time coaching the bowlers in the programme. 00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:16.780 She's based at The Oval in central London but 00:00:16.780 --> 00:00:19.019 has to oversee a big region stretching across 00:00:19.019 --> 00:00:21.879 the southeast. Tim Dellor's been chatting to 00:00:21.879 --> 00:00:24.280 her and Jennifer explained the significance of 00:00:24.280 --> 00:00:30.699 where they met. At the Oval and JJ what room 00:00:30.699 --> 00:00:32.659 are we in here and just talk us through where 00:00:32.659 --> 00:00:34.460 we're sitting because this is quite spectacular 00:00:34.460 --> 00:00:37.140 as cricketing venues go to have a have a natter. 00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:39.219 Yeah not bad so we're currently in the Alcock 00:00:39.219 --> 00:00:42.159 room and this is used for players and staff dining 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:45.159 at the moment on a match day it would host members 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:46.960 so we're kind of like at the top of the members 00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:50.439 pavilion lovely view out across the square overlooking. 00:00:50.990 --> 00:00:52.530 Probably one of the best grounds in the country. 00:00:52.670 --> 00:00:54.729 You can't argue with that. It's so central in 00:00:54.729 --> 00:00:56.750 London, isn't it? And the pavilion is sensational 00:00:56.750 --> 00:00:58.229 at the Oval, isn't it? It's a while since I've 00:00:58.229 --> 00:00:59.750 been here, but it's like a museum with all the 00:00:59.750 --> 00:01:01.909 portraits. Is there a portrait of you? I mean, 00:01:01.929 --> 00:01:04.170 you're relatively new to it, I suppose. No, but 00:01:04.170 --> 00:01:06.030 funny you should say that. So for International 00:01:06.030 --> 00:01:08.450 Women's Day, they are going to do a big photo 00:01:08.450 --> 00:01:10.950 of all of the people involved in Surrey that 00:01:10.950 --> 00:01:14.129 are women. So there will be a photo of me somewhere 00:01:14.129 --> 00:01:16.909 in there. But yeah, I think one of the best things 00:01:16.909 --> 00:01:19.129 about coming to The Oval is the history of it. 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:22.459 And they're not shy in kind of showing that to 00:01:22.459 --> 00:01:24.959 everybody. And as we walked up the stairs earlier, 00:01:25.019 --> 00:01:26.959 it was all filled with all the museum artefacts. 00:01:27.099 --> 00:01:29.340 And what's really, really cool is they now have 00:01:29.340 --> 00:01:31.719 a special section for the women's game and the 00:01:31.719 --> 00:01:33.760 history of women's cricket at Surrey, which is 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:35.780 also really cool. Because the portraits, quite 00:01:35.780 --> 00:01:37.319 naturally, I mean, there's a guy there who must 00:01:37.319 --> 00:01:40.560 be from the 1800s, I'm guessing. He's got fantastic 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:44.640 sideburns and amazing hair. And he's quite male 00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:46.219 -dominated, isn't he? Which I suppose is a bit 00:01:46.219 --> 00:01:48.480 of a timely reminder as to how much the game's 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:50.680 moved on. in the last 20 years but before that 00:01:50.680 --> 00:01:52.900 wasn't really happening was it? Yeah exactly 00:01:52.900 --> 00:01:55.120 that but one thing I would say about Surrey is 00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:58.799 they've been so brilliant in welcoming the women's 00:01:58.799 --> 00:02:01.640 side on board and just like making sure that 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:03.540 we're fully supported in everything that we want 00:02:03.540 --> 00:02:06.019 to do and making sure that we feel equal whenever 00:02:06.019 --> 00:02:08.319 we come in. Yeah, and what a place to come to 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:10.860 work. The squad are busy. You've got the academy 00:02:10.860 --> 00:02:13.439 players to look after. You've got the first team, 00:02:13.460 --> 00:02:15.099 obviously, as well. And it's a quite exciting 00:02:15.099 --> 00:02:17.060 time of year, really, isn't it? I don't know 00:02:17.060 --> 00:02:18.259 what's going to happen in the next few months. 00:02:18.419 --> 00:02:20.520 Yeah, I really like this time of year, actually, 00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:22.949 I think. Where the winter feels like it's been 00:02:22.949 --> 00:02:25.909 a really long slog, this block, especially in 00:02:25.909 --> 00:02:28.150 the academy, we get into the bat versus ball, 00:02:28.250 --> 00:02:30.270 the competition phase, where we can actually 00:02:30.270 --> 00:02:33.409 see all of this hard work that you've done, how 00:02:33.409 --> 00:02:35.530 does it look when we're getting into game scenarios? 00:02:35.669 --> 00:02:37.750 So the girls absolutely love this bit. I really 00:02:37.750 --> 00:02:40.949 enjoy this bit. And I think, well, it's kind 00:02:40.949 --> 00:02:42.669 of sunny today, so it makes you look forward 00:02:42.669 --> 00:02:45.960 to the summer. If you think back to February, 00:02:46.139 --> 00:02:48.599 January, December, November, does it drag on 00:02:48.599 --> 00:02:50.680 a bit for you or are you okay with it? Because 00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:52.379 it's not everyone's cup of tea. It always seems 00:02:52.379 --> 00:02:54.719 a month too long, doesn't it? You get to a point 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:57.060 where you're absolutely itching. I think I kind 00:02:57.060 --> 00:02:59.979 of sit in both sides in that I wish I had longer, 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:03.199 but also sometimes it can drag on. I'm really 00:03:03.199 --> 00:03:05.379 lucky that the people that I get to work with 00:03:05.379 --> 00:03:08.099 in the academy space come up with such cool and 00:03:08.099 --> 00:03:10.460 creative ideas that actually it still feels fresh 00:03:10.460 --> 00:03:13.259 even in February. So sometimes I wish we had 00:03:13.259 --> 00:03:15.919 a little bit longer so I could really nail down 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:17.860 with some stuff. But I do know what you mean, 00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:20.120 especially if you play an outdoor sport and then 00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:22.740 you're stuck inside for a long time. It can be 00:03:22.740 --> 00:03:24.800 a bit of a drag, but... We've got people that 00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:26.419 think outside the box and it makes it fun. So 00:03:26.419 --> 00:03:28.360 the people and reinventing all the practices 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:30.240 and coming up with things. I mean, I don't want 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:32.879 to suggest you've been coaching for too long, 00:03:32.979 --> 00:03:36.580 but you have definitely done a few seasons now. 00:03:36.659 --> 00:03:39.180 Is that fair? And yet no doubt you're still seeing 00:03:39.180 --> 00:03:41.020 stuff for the first time, which keeps it interesting. 00:03:41.300 --> 00:03:43.800 Yeah, absolutely. I think I first started coaching 00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:48.120 cricket when I was 18. So that's nearly 17 years 00:03:48.120 --> 00:03:50.879 that I've been coaching, which I feel like I'm 00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:53.400 still really new into it because... I've only 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:55.840 been full time coaching for a few years, but 00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:58.180 I do feel like you kind of get a little bit stuck 00:03:58.180 --> 00:04:00.759 in your ways. But actually, like I'll use one 00:04:00.759 --> 00:04:03.620 example, like Marcus Campopiano, our strength 00:04:03.620 --> 00:04:05.599 and conditioning coach. He also plays cricket 00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:07.419 and he just comes up with some really, really 00:04:07.419 --> 00:04:10.699 cool ideas of how we can implement skills alongside 00:04:10.699 --> 00:04:12.960 the strength and conditioning to make sure that 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:15.330 actually. the girls are getting like a really 00:04:15.330 --> 00:04:18.430 holistic session stuff like that that actually 00:04:18.430 --> 00:04:20.129 makes me think about stuff a little bit different 00:04:20.129 --> 00:04:23.269 i'm like a massive fan of and working alongside 00:04:23.269 --> 00:04:25.790 really good people must be the key to keep it 00:04:25.790 --> 00:04:28.649 engaging and motivated and interesting because 00:04:28.649 --> 00:04:31.350 if you're always rubbing shoulders and you can 00:04:31.350 --> 00:04:32.990 peer through the net and see someone else doing 00:04:32.990 --> 00:04:34.829 something funky that you haven't done before 00:04:34.829 --> 00:04:37.860 yourself that must really keep you just engaged 00:04:37.860 --> 00:04:39.660 with the whole process whereas if you're on your 00:04:39.660 --> 00:04:41.639 own or working with the same people all the time 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.300 it might migrate a bit yeah absolutely and i 00:04:44.300 --> 00:04:47.620 think like i as a coach i'm always wanting to 00:04:47.620 --> 00:04:49.720 learn like and i really like learning from other 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:51.639 people but then you've all got the other side 00:04:51.639 --> 00:04:54.079 of it the academy staff that i work with and 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:56.379 that kind of like lead us through the program 00:04:56.379 --> 00:04:59.300 i probably see them more than i see my family 00:04:59.300 --> 00:05:02.519 so actually having a really good working relationship 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:05.100 with them is so important, not just for keeping 00:05:05.100 --> 00:05:07.699 ideas fresh, but also just making sure that the 00:05:07.699 --> 00:05:10.860 environment is a really positive one for staff, 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:13.040 players, like everybody involved. If everyone's 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:15.019 on the same page, that makes life very straightforward 00:05:15.019 --> 00:05:17.360 for you, I guess. Yeah, absolutely. With my role 00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:19.939 at the moment at Surrey, I oversee the whole 00:05:19.939 --> 00:05:22.579 of the talent pathway. And so part of my role 00:05:22.579 --> 00:05:25.110 is... kind of filtering down my visions of what 00:05:25.110 --> 00:05:27.050 the pathway should be to all of the staff underneath 00:05:27.050 --> 00:05:29.970 me. And I think we've got all of the best people 00:05:29.970 --> 00:05:33.189 in place for me to be able to pass on that message 00:05:33.189 --> 00:05:34.990 and for that message to be filtered down the 00:05:34.990 --> 00:05:38.009 pathway to keep creating the environment and 00:05:38.009 --> 00:05:40.910 the way of coaching that we want to see throughout. 00:05:41.449 --> 00:05:43.870 the whole of surrey and i always wonder how difficult 00:05:43.870 --> 00:05:46.649 that must be in terms of communicating it and 00:05:46.649 --> 00:05:48.470 because they're often in football they talk a 00:05:48.470 --> 00:05:50.589 lot don't they about the dna of a club and having 00:05:50.589 --> 00:05:52.889 that running all the way from top to bottom or 00:05:52.889 --> 00:05:55.350 across or however you want to look at it if you're 00:05:55.350 --> 00:05:57.430 the one who's having to implement it and come 00:05:57.430 --> 00:06:01.170 up with the strategy that can't be easy to try 00:06:01.170 --> 00:06:03.990 and filter it all the way down the systems have 00:06:03.990 --> 00:06:05.790 to be right and the communication has to be right 00:06:05.790 --> 00:06:08.339 okay it can't be an easy thing No it's definitely 00:06:08.339 --> 00:06:10.480 a challenge but it's one that I really enjoy 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:13.300 as part of my role and actually the transition 00:06:13.300 --> 00:06:15.620 from South East Stars to Surrey and the whole 00:06:15.620 --> 00:06:18.100 new structure of women's cricket has made it 00:06:18.100 --> 00:06:20.560 difficult but actually I feel like recently we've 00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:22.899 started to make some strides in that so last 00:06:22.899 --> 00:06:25.319 week we held like a CPD day for all of the coaches 00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:27.459 within the Kent pathway and the Surrey pathway 00:06:27.459 --> 00:06:30.899 and I invited the senior coaches to come in and 00:06:30.899 --> 00:06:32.980 talk about the vision of the type of cricket 00:06:32.980 --> 00:06:34.899 we want to play at the top and how that might 00:06:34.899 --> 00:06:37.060 look throughout the pathway how that might link 00:06:37.060 --> 00:06:40.279 to talent id so all of those kind of cpd days 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:43.800 that we offer and i'm always very clear with 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:45.860 the fact that the door to academy and epp is 00:06:45.860 --> 00:06:48.319 always open so if anybody wants to come in and 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:50.040 see what we're doing and kind of see the things 00:06:50.040 --> 00:06:52.779 that we offer the girls at the higher level and 00:06:52.779 --> 00:06:55.040 how they can then filter it back down like they're 00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:57.899 more than welcome to so While it is a challenge, 00:06:57.980 --> 00:06:59.819 it's one that I really enjoy and it's probably 00:06:59.819 --> 00:07:05.019 my favourite part of the role is seeing that 00:07:05.019 --> 00:07:07.759 CPD and how it then lands with other people and 00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:09.399 then going into the pathway and seeing them put 00:07:09.399 --> 00:07:11.379 it in place as well. The thing I really enjoy 00:07:11.379 --> 00:07:14.100 is the horizon scanning. So it's all very well 00:07:14.100 --> 00:07:16.759 having that DNA running all over through the 00:07:16.759 --> 00:07:19.319 club for now, but if you're a 13... I mean, I 00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:20.779 think this is particularly in the women's and 00:07:20.779 --> 00:07:27.740 the girls' game, actually, I would suggest, even 00:07:27.740 --> 00:07:30.399 more than in the men's and the boys' game. And 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:33.360 so if you set up a 14 -year -old cricketer now 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:36.240 to deal with what they currently need to do at 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:38.899 the top level, when they get to the top level 00:07:38.899 --> 00:07:41.139 in six, seven, eight years' time, the game will 00:07:41.139 --> 00:07:42.879 have moved on that much, won't it? So actually, 00:07:42.980 --> 00:07:45.300 you've got to be aware of that, I suppose, haven't 00:07:45.300 --> 00:07:47.720 you? And just think, what do these girls need 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:50.399 when they're fully fledged international women's 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:53.600 players? Yeah, and I'm also very well aware in 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:56.850 my role that... I have a group of academy players 00:07:56.850 --> 00:07:58.850 and then underneath that we have a whole pathway 00:07:58.850 --> 00:08:01.790 of players that while we would like them to be 00:08:01.790 --> 00:08:03.550 professional and represent Surrey in the future, 00:08:03.610 --> 00:08:05.829 they might not. They might represent another 00:08:05.829 --> 00:08:07.449 county and they might choose to go somewhere 00:08:07.449 --> 00:08:10.350 else. So our role is to prepare them for whatever 00:08:10.350 --> 00:08:12.649 level of cricket is going to be their best level 00:08:12.649 --> 00:08:14.209 of cricket. For some that might be international 00:08:14.209 --> 00:08:16.629 cricket, for some that might be playing for Surrey, 00:08:16.689 --> 00:08:18.810 for some that might be tier two cricket, but 00:08:18.810 --> 00:08:22.069 we have a role to play in their development. 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:24.800 And we've always got to be pushing them for what 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:28.240 their best is. And that might look different 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:31.959 in terms of how quickly the structure of women's 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:34.919 cricket kind of like embeds itself and how the 00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:38.500 two tier systems work. And obviously lots happening 00:08:38.500 --> 00:08:40.259 with England women at the moment and how that 00:08:40.259 --> 00:08:42.879 might look in the future. So the future is always 00:08:42.879 --> 00:08:46.220 changing. But I do think if you just stick with 00:08:46.220 --> 00:08:49.039 actually those individuals that are in front 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:50.860 of me, I want to make sure I'm getting the best. 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:54.000 out of them for them. I think that kind of helps 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:55.879 you in terms of where they're going to go in 00:08:55.879 --> 00:08:57.659 the future. I think you used the word holistic 00:08:57.659 --> 00:09:01.360 earlier on. Are you thinking beyond just cricket 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:03.580 as well with their development? So as you say, 00:09:03.659 --> 00:09:06.500 the sheer numbers that you're dealing with, there's 00:09:06.500 --> 00:09:08.500 no way they're all going to be pros, however 00:09:08.500 --> 00:09:11.940 good that batch might be. So do you look at it 00:09:11.940 --> 00:09:14.970 as a sort of device for that? further education 00:09:14.970 --> 00:09:17.769 beyond just cricket because again there's a lot 00:09:17.769 --> 00:09:19.950 of chat in football isn't there about the drop 00:09:19.950 --> 00:09:23.049 -off and the rather brutal world of you get to 00:09:23.049 --> 00:09:25.009 the age of 16 you've only ever dreamt of being 00:09:25.009 --> 00:09:28.350 a footballer then the academy director you calls 00:09:28.350 --> 00:09:30.330 the player in says you you're not going to have 00:09:30.330 --> 00:09:32.389 a career in football and then they're on the 00:09:32.389 --> 00:09:35.529 scrap heap do you try and soften that a little 00:09:35.529 --> 00:09:40.490 bit that whole process I am 100 % on board that 00:09:40.490 --> 00:09:43.909 my coaching philosophy is that I want to develop 00:09:43.909 --> 00:09:46.809 the person first and the cricketer second. So 00:09:46.809 --> 00:09:49.389 as you say, lots of players coming through now 00:09:49.389 --> 00:09:51.409 and the talent pool is so much bigger than it 00:09:51.409 --> 00:09:54.509 ever was. There's a really, really high number 00:09:54.509 --> 00:09:56.070 of those players that are not going to be professional. 00:09:56.509 --> 00:09:59.789 But if we can impact their lives in such a way 00:09:59.789 --> 00:10:02.289 that they have a lifelong love of the game and 00:10:02.289 --> 00:10:04.330 they want to work in cricket, whether it's a 00:10:04.330 --> 00:10:07.490 coach, whether it's a physio, SSE or... operations 00:10:07.490 --> 00:10:10.090 manager or commentator or anything like that 00:10:10.090 --> 00:10:11.990 where they're still involved in the game that 00:10:11.990 --> 00:10:15.970 they love i think that my role is offering them 00:10:15.970 --> 00:10:18.230 all of the ways that they can develop outside 00:10:18.230 --> 00:10:20.669 of just cricket so yeah the sponsors as well 00:10:20.669 --> 00:10:22.850 you know if they become big in business and then 00:10:22.850 --> 00:10:25.669 they still love the game they could end up playing 00:10:25.669 --> 00:10:28.309 a crucial role couldn't they and pumping money 00:10:28.309 --> 00:10:30.570 in so any number of different angles and i suppose 00:10:30.570 --> 00:10:33.480 you're not talking necessarily to your 13 or 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:35.799 14 year olds about all those I don't know maybe 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:38.360 you are but all those possible careers within 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:41.679 cricket it's more just trying to give them skills 00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:45.159 that could in the future lend themselves well 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:46.840 to going into that is that is that it because 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:48.600 you don't want to it's quite a difficult balance 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:49.639 isn't it because you don't want to take their 00:10:49.639 --> 00:10:51.620 focus off playing and trying to be as good as 00:10:51.620 --> 00:10:53.840 they can be as a player you don't want to dampen 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:56.519 those dreams but at the same time it's a as you 00:10:56.519 --> 00:10:59.159 say it's a responsibility to try and make them 00:10:59.529 --> 00:11:02.289 well -rounded yeah i think that's maybe where 00:11:02.289 --> 00:11:04.789 i sit slightly differently in the fact that i'm 00:11:04.789 --> 00:11:08.710 very much like a realist i will speak to my players 00:11:08.710 --> 00:11:11.330 in a very realistic way and i'll say that if 00:11:11.330 --> 00:11:14.049 i had the group of academy players and i did 00:11:14.049 --> 00:11:16.309 in the pre -season induction i said to them look 00:11:16.309 --> 00:11:19.289 a lot of you won't be professionals but what 00:11:19.289 --> 00:11:21.809 you could be is all of these other things which 00:11:21.809 --> 00:11:25.279 are still impacting the game so yeah i will I'll 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:26.799 say it to them. You're quite straight up about 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:28.500 it. Yeah, that's quite refreshing because I reckon 00:11:28.500 --> 00:11:31.039 a lot of people are a bit afraid of doing that 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:33.940 because they just want the players to stay so 00:11:33.940 --> 00:11:35.919 focused on playing, playing, playing, don't you? 00:11:35.940 --> 00:11:37.759 And maybe if you do that, you're doing them a 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:40.179 bit of a disservice. Yeah, but I think it comes 00:11:40.179 --> 00:11:42.000 back to my philosophy in that it's always the 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:44.779 person first. And while cricket is a massive 00:11:44.779 --> 00:11:46.740 part of their life now, there's so many other 00:11:46.740 --> 00:11:49.259 things. A lot of the girls in my academy are 00:11:49.259 --> 00:11:51.200 doing their A -levels, doing their GCSEs. There 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:53.840 is more to their life than just cricket. So I 00:11:53.840 --> 00:11:55.860 think I would be doing them a disservice in my 00:11:55.860 --> 00:11:58.620 role if I was just focusing on the cricket. If 00:11:58.620 --> 00:12:00.759 I was taking them away from their lives for 10 00:12:00.759 --> 00:12:03.340 hours a week and only concentrating on the cricket, 00:12:03.460 --> 00:12:06.139 I think that I would not be doing my job properly. 00:12:06.299 --> 00:12:08.139 And let's talk about the cricket, having said 00:12:08.139 --> 00:12:12.759 that. So you're very much... overarching as or 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:15.720 managing the program but I presume you're still 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:17.840 getting some time hopefully to do coaching because 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:19.299 that's the danger isn't it you become a bit like 00:12:19.299 --> 00:12:21.799 a head teacher where you spend years and years 00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:24.059 in the classroom loving that and then you get 00:12:24.059 --> 00:12:26.840 the top job and you never get to see a it's not 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:29.019 chalk and blackboard anymore is it but interactive 00:12:29.019 --> 00:12:31.200 whiteboard thank you very much yes an interactive 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:33.440 you never get anywhere near an interactive whiteboard 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:35.759 yeah absolutely and I think I'm really lucky 00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:38.440 in my role because I go across other programs 00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:41.210 while in the academy space I'm kind of overseeing 00:12:41.210 --> 00:12:43.850 stuff I then can still do hands -on coaching 00:12:43.850 --> 00:12:46.389 in the senior space with the bowlers I hands 00:12:46.389 --> 00:12:49.549 -on coach in the EPP space I'm also very aware 00:12:49.549 --> 00:12:52.250 of what my specialism is in coaching so I'll 00:12:52.250 --> 00:12:53.870 still work with the spinners and I'll still do 00:12:53.870 --> 00:12:56.450 the fielding but I have other spaces that I can 00:12:56.450 --> 00:12:59.190 go into to get the hands -on stuff spin bowling 00:12:59.190 --> 00:13:02.860 yeah the fielding And when I was at times where 00:13:02.860 --> 00:13:05.059 I've been working in cricket, I've always tried 00:13:05.059 --> 00:13:07.240 to make sure that if somebody doesn't turn up 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:09.440 at the last minute, I can get away with delivering 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:11.960 a session of whatever their specialism may have 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:14.720 been. Yeah, absolutely that. So I like to think 00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:17.399 that I'm a jack of all trades in that I could 00:13:17.399 --> 00:13:20.720 deliver on anything to the standard that I would 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:23.860 want it to be if that arose. But then I also 00:13:23.860 --> 00:13:26.690 think that... I have such a good staff group 00:13:26.690 --> 00:13:28.929 that work within that academy space that I would 00:13:28.929 --> 00:13:31.230 trust any of them to also do the same thing. 00:13:31.330 --> 00:13:34.309 So if I had a bowling lead that was doing a bowling 00:13:34.309 --> 00:13:37.350 session but then I needed someone to do a batting 00:13:37.350 --> 00:13:39.470 session of batting against spin, I would absolutely 00:13:39.470 --> 00:13:41.450 trust them to go in and do that as well. Who 00:13:41.450 --> 00:13:44.590 have been your big influences? So I'm thinking 00:13:44.590 --> 00:13:47.330 which maybe coaches or maybe other players or 00:13:47.330 --> 00:13:49.889 maybe people even outside of cricket have... 00:13:50.330 --> 00:13:52.889 helped your thinking and got you to where you 00:13:52.889 --> 00:13:55.049 are now do you think so it's a very interesting 00:13:55.049 --> 00:13:57.230 question and i actually always struggle to answer 00:13:57.230 --> 00:14:00.389 this because i can't really think in cricket 00:14:00.389 --> 00:14:05.549 as a player i can't think of any coaches that 00:14:05.549 --> 00:14:09.129 i thought right like i want to be like that but 00:14:09.129 --> 00:14:10.950 i think it's because when i was a player i never 00:14:10.950 --> 00:14:13.490 wanted to be a coach Oh, didn't you? I'm surprised 00:14:13.490 --> 00:14:16.470 for that. Obviously, when did I first meet you? 00:14:16.529 --> 00:14:18.750 Ten years ago? Yeah. So it wasn't that long ago. 00:14:18.809 --> 00:14:21.870 Okay. And I thought immediately I'll get a coach 00:14:21.870 --> 00:14:25.870 written all over you. So that wasn't always the 00:14:25.870 --> 00:14:28.129 plan. And I don't know whether that's because 00:14:28.129 --> 00:14:31.210 it didn't seem like a career option back then. 00:14:31.269 --> 00:14:33.490 Oh, yes. You have to see it to be it. And actually, 00:14:33.570 --> 00:14:35.970 in your time, there wasn't much of it to see, 00:14:36.009 --> 00:14:39.370 was there? Absolutely not. And I think I kind 00:14:39.370 --> 00:14:42.809 of... fell into coaching I would say when I was 00:14:42.809 --> 00:14:46.889 18 and still playing the Kent under 11 coach 00:14:46.889 --> 00:14:48.830 was like oh like would you like to come in and 00:14:48.830 --> 00:14:50.730 help out I was like yeah great I'll do a bit 00:14:50.730 --> 00:14:53.789 of that and then I just never stopped so I always 00:14:53.789 --> 00:14:56.169 coached part -time throughout my whole playing 00:14:56.169 --> 00:15:00.610 career and then became a teacher still coached 00:15:00.610 --> 00:15:03.009 part -time maybe I always knew that I wanted 00:15:03.009 --> 00:15:04.970 to do coaching because I think I went into teaching 00:15:04.970 --> 00:15:08.580 because I wanted that same kind of thing But 00:15:08.580 --> 00:15:10.659 then teaching wasn't the right fit. And then 00:15:10.659 --> 00:15:12.899 I think I was just really lucky that when I was 00:15:12.899 --> 00:15:15.600 ready to leave teaching was also the time where 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:17.299 the regional game was taking off and there was 00:15:17.299 --> 00:15:20.940 more actual job roles. Because I think it's also 00:15:20.940 --> 00:15:25.019 not very easy at all to try and be a coach when 00:15:25.019 --> 00:15:27.600 you're just working kind of like ad hoc part 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:30.019 time hours. So unless there is actually that 00:15:30.019 --> 00:15:33.899 full time coaching work available, it's very 00:15:33.899 --> 00:15:35.860 difficult to actually go into that as a career. 00:15:36.019 --> 00:15:39.200 So, yeah, I kind of fell into it. Who has influenced 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:41.980 me on that journey? I'm not entirely sure yet. 00:15:42.039 --> 00:15:46.539 I think I'm influenced every day by the people 00:15:46.539 --> 00:15:49.419 that I work with. But I couldn't pick out someone. 00:15:49.419 --> 00:15:50.960 It would be like a jigsaw, lots of different 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:53.600 people contributing little things rather than 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:56.740 one overarching role model. Yeah, I absolutely 00:15:56.740 --> 00:15:59.220 think that. And I'm super lucky in the team that 00:15:59.220 --> 00:16:01.360 I work with in Surrey that everyone is so different 00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:03.379 and they all have their own strengths and skills 00:16:03.379 --> 00:16:06.620 that actually... each one of them then influences 00:16:06.620 --> 00:16:09.220 the way I coach in a very different way. Let's 00:16:09.220 --> 00:16:10.980 look at the last 10 years then. What have been 00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:13.620 some of the key lessons of learning that you've 00:16:13.620 --> 00:16:16.600 had through coaching or through being so heavily 00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:19.860 involved in cricket? So I think one of the biggest 00:16:19.860 --> 00:16:23.960 ones for me is that it's not my journey, it's 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:27.080 theirs. The players? Yeah, so like as a coach, 00:16:27.220 --> 00:16:31.480 I am there to facilitate their development rather 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:34.230 than... head coach of like a county age group 00:16:34.230 --> 00:16:38.090 team and them being really successful I saw it 00:16:38.090 --> 00:16:40.629 as a good reflection on me but actually it's 00:16:40.629 --> 00:16:42.950 got nothing to do with that them being successful 00:16:42.950 --> 00:16:46.210 is it a good reflection on how well they've developed 00:16:46.210 --> 00:16:48.169 and the environment that I'm creating for those 00:16:48.169 --> 00:16:51.919 players and so that's definitely been one of 00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:54.700 the biggest learnings for me just and the selflessness 00:16:54.700 --> 00:16:58.000 of that it's quite jarring with being a player 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:00.159 isn't it because a player it definitely is a 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:02.019 reflection on you if you scored 100 or you've 00:17:02.019 --> 00:17:04.640 taken five wickets but then you become a coach 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:06.759 and it is quite i think quite a lot of ex -players 00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:09.539 and especially recent ex -players that's quite 00:17:09.539 --> 00:17:11.819 a difficult transition to make that whole mindset 00:17:11.819 --> 00:17:15.039 from being all about you and reflected on you 00:17:15.950 --> 00:17:18.349 to then being all about the team and them. Yeah, 00:17:18.450 --> 00:17:20.750 and I think one thing that I'm really proud of 00:17:20.750 --> 00:17:24.230 is the feedback that I get around the players 00:17:24.230 --> 00:17:26.109 that I coach when they go into other environments 00:17:26.109 --> 00:17:29.069 about their attitude, their character, their 00:17:29.069 --> 00:17:31.930 behaviours. And I feel like that reflects on 00:17:31.930 --> 00:17:34.930 me more than if they were to go score 100 for 00:17:34.930 --> 00:17:36.470 England. So it's more about the values and the 00:17:36.470 --> 00:17:38.329 behaviours. Yeah, which I think is what I lean 00:17:38.329 --> 00:17:40.990 more towards to naturally. But yeah, I think 00:17:40.990 --> 00:17:42.910 that's definitely my biggest learning. And then 00:17:42.910 --> 00:17:46.539 another one. is probably that I can ask for help 00:17:46.539 --> 00:17:49.660 a lot more than I do. Does that come with confidence 00:17:49.660 --> 00:17:51.640 and maybe experience? Because when you first 00:17:51.640 --> 00:17:54.240 start, you're so eager to... Not you. Well, you 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:57.960 may have been. Let's all be honest and put our 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:00.140 hands up here. When you first start, you want 00:18:00.140 --> 00:18:01.619 to make a good impression, you want to show everyone 00:18:01.619 --> 00:18:03.960 how much you know, and then when you get a bit 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:06.420 more sure of yourself, you can then ask more 00:18:06.420 --> 00:18:09.400 relaxed and openly. I don't want to get, like, 00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:11.680 all political, but I think there's another nuance 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:15.210 in terms of being a female coach male environment 00:18:15.210 --> 00:18:17.930 I think I used to feel like I didn't want to 00:18:17.930 --> 00:18:19.829 look like I didn't know what I was doing whereas 00:18:19.829 --> 00:18:22.210 now where I've kind of like grown in this environment 00:18:22.210 --> 00:18:24.930 and grown as a coach I've realized that actually 00:18:24.930 --> 00:18:28.369 asking for help as and when you need it is more 00:18:28.369 --> 00:18:32.630 of a strength and actually you're showing other 00:18:32.630 --> 00:18:35.970 people that that's okay too rather than pretending 00:18:35.970 --> 00:18:37.730 everything's fine and then probably doing things 00:18:37.730 --> 00:18:39.670 wrong it's definitely come with growing as a 00:18:39.670 --> 00:18:43.220 coach but also being more confident as a woman 00:18:43.220 --> 00:18:45.660 in a more male environment. Yeah, and I suppose 00:18:45.660 --> 00:18:48.200 it takes a while for you to realise that you 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:52.579 know just as much as male coaches. And then what... 00:18:52.579 --> 00:18:56.099 I was going to come to that. And then once you 00:18:56.099 --> 00:18:58.359 can acknowledge that and you've got that sort 00:18:58.359 --> 00:19:00.440 of confidence and belief in yourself, then you're 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:03.480 entirely open and relaxed, aren't you, to go 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:05.079 and ask the right questions. The other thing 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:06.740 is the more you know, the more you realise you 00:19:06.740 --> 00:19:08.259 don't know. I don't know if you get any of that, 00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:11.680 but the more... years you've put into the game 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:14.480 it just becomes for me anyway it becomes apparent 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:16.019 that there's just a whole lot more out there 00:19:16.019 --> 00:19:18.140 that you want to explore and get to know yeah 00:19:18.140 --> 00:19:21.440 I almost feel like I know less now than I knew 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:23.880 yeah 10 years ago like that's really exciting 00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:26.859 because I love learning so I just feel like there's 00:19:26.859 --> 00:19:29.299 so much more that I can keep getting better at 00:19:29.299 --> 00:19:32.140 but I also know that I'm never gonna feel like 00:19:32.750 --> 00:19:34.890 I know it all and I think that that's a really 00:19:34.890 --> 00:19:36.730 good place to be if I get to a point where I 00:19:36.730 --> 00:19:38.150 feel like I know it all I know that I should 00:19:38.150 --> 00:19:40.730 probably stop yeah yeah I think that's on my 00:19:40.730 --> 00:19:42.750 off I'm sure that's interesting definitely that 00:19:42.750 --> 00:19:45.369 whole philosophy and you know when we talk about 00:19:45.369 --> 00:19:47.589 coaching philosophy on these courses so you did 00:19:47.589 --> 00:19:49.589 the level three and the level four courses and 00:19:49.589 --> 00:19:51.650 they talk about coaching philosophy has that 00:19:51.650 --> 00:19:54.029 changed very much do you think maybe it's with 00:19:54.029 --> 00:19:56.470 the roles that you've had to do I don't know 00:19:56.470 --> 00:19:58.990 whether my the bones of the coaching philosophy 00:19:58.990 --> 00:20:03.259 have changed but How strongly I believe in it 00:20:03.259 --> 00:20:06.539 has definitely changed. I think it comes back 00:20:06.539 --> 00:20:08.839 to the confidence thing in that I probably had 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:11.200 a coaching philosophy before but didn't actually 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:13.539 feel that I could deliver it. So then I probably 00:20:13.539 --> 00:20:15.240 changed my coaching philosophy to be something 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:20.579 quite easy. But now I fully believe my coaching 00:20:20.579 --> 00:20:24.500 philosophy and I think it leads in everywhere 00:20:24.500 --> 00:20:26.900 that I want to go. That being said, I know that 00:20:26.900 --> 00:20:29.460 my coaching philosophy links very nicely to me 00:20:29.460 --> 00:20:31.720 working in development cricket. So if I ever 00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:33.640 do want to take the branch into professional 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:36.099 cricket, my philosophy may change. It may not, 00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:39.460 but it's definitely not set in stone. I'm more 00:20:39.460 --> 00:20:41.500 confident about it than ever was. What about 00:20:41.500 --> 00:20:45.500 what you most love about coaching and your world? 00:20:45.579 --> 00:20:47.660 So there must be things that get you out of bed 00:20:47.660 --> 00:20:51.950 in the morning and really still excite you. They're 00:20:51.950 --> 00:20:53.890 bound to be other. Someone used to say about 00:20:53.890 --> 00:20:56.970 having an 80 -20 job, so as long as you're enjoying 00:20:56.970 --> 00:20:59.230 80 % of it, there's 20 % of drudgery in most 00:20:59.230 --> 00:21:00.910 jobs and you just sort of get on with that, that's 00:21:00.910 --> 00:21:03.150 fine. As long as you can get to more than 50%, 00:21:03.150 --> 00:21:05.349 you're probably happy. What are the bits of your 00:21:05.349 --> 00:21:07.589 job or the bits of coaching that you still really 00:21:07.589 --> 00:21:11.609 love? I get a lot of energy from the actual hands 00:21:11.609 --> 00:21:13.930 -on coaching still, so I absolutely love that, 00:21:14.009 --> 00:21:16.369 specifically working with bowlers, just because 00:21:16.369 --> 00:21:18.450 that's kind of like... where my passion lies 00:21:18.450 --> 00:21:20.710 but yeah any of the hands -on coaching parts 00:21:20.710 --> 00:21:24.509 absolutely love i also think i just really love 00:21:24.509 --> 00:21:27.269 seeing a player's journey they first come into 00:21:27.269 --> 00:21:30.369 the academy and then seeing where they might 00:21:30.369 --> 00:21:33.670 be in three years there's something about seeing 00:21:33.670 --> 00:21:36.549 them develop throughout that journey that is 00:21:36.549 --> 00:21:38.549 just really cool and like i've got some players 00:21:38.549 --> 00:21:40.150 on the academy at the moment now that i've been 00:21:40.150 --> 00:21:42.480 working with for three years where they are now 00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:45.039 compared to where they started is just so different. 00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:47.200 And you kind of wish that you could have taken 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:49.240 a picture about them and now you're showing it 00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:51.940 to them. But yeah, I think that really motivates 00:21:51.940 --> 00:21:54.519 me and really drives me. But I also think the 00:21:54.519 --> 00:21:57.420 relationships with the players, as I spoke earlier, 00:21:57.559 --> 00:21:59.539 they're not all going to be professionals. But 00:21:59.539 --> 00:22:01.859 a lot of them who have either left the academy 00:22:01.859 --> 00:22:04.759 or decided to transition to other things, if 00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:07.240 I still see them, the relationship is still so 00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:09.440 good and so strong. And I feel when a player 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:12.380 comes back and they went... God, when you were 00:22:12.380 --> 00:22:14.339 really honest with me and you did this and you 00:22:14.339 --> 00:22:16.779 did this, it changed my life. Like that kind 00:22:16.779 --> 00:22:19.220 of stuff. I guess that kind of sits deeper than 00:22:19.220 --> 00:22:23.039 just the coaching. Those relationships and the 00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:24.619 bonds that you form with the people that you 00:22:24.619 --> 00:22:27.099 see. You just don't get that in insurance or 00:22:27.099 --> 00:22:29.460 tax advice, do you? Well, you might do. I don't 00:22:29.460 --> 00:22:32.539 think so. There is something special about sports 00:22:32.539 --> 00:22:34.740 and the bonds you make in it, isn't there? Especially 00:22:34.740 --> 00:22:38.039 in cricket. I think because you spend so much 00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:41.079 time together in a season. Yeah, and highs and 00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:42.660 lows. It's a bit of an emotional rollercoaster, 00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:44.180 and that probably tightens you as well. Yeah, 00:22:44.180 --> 00:22:46.700 and with cricket, it's obviously a team sport, 00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:49.980 but there's individual aspects within that. One 00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:51.880 individual might be having a really tough time, 00:22:51.940 --> 00:22:54.960 but then the team pulls them back, and we might 00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:57.539 have a two -week stretch where we've got a two 00:22:57.539 --> 00:22:58.920 -day game, a three -day game, and they're all 00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:02.519 away. So spending 10 days together, those relationships 00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:04.799 that you build in that space, outside of just 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:08.039 being on the pitch. are so important yeah i'm 00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:09.299 really interested what you're saying about the 00:23:09.299 --> 00:23:11.500 growth of players and monitoring that as well 00:23:11.500 --> 00:23:14.000 and wishing that you could go back three years 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.500 and have a picture next to where they are now 00:23:16.500 --> 00:23:18.900 because you must have data and there are some 00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:21.740 measurables aren't there that you must do in 00:23:21.740 --> 00:23:24.039 your in your role at the academy to see how players 00:23:24.039 --> 00:23:26.019 are progressing what what talk us through some 00:23:26.019 --> 00:23:28.640 of some of that how you do monitor players progression 00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:31.140 yeah absolutely so we have a lot of like the 00:23:31.140 --> 00:23:33.420 physical monitoring stuff your fitness monitoring 00:23:33.420 --> 00:23:36.630 in terms of how strong they are, how fit they 00:23:36.630 --> 00:23:38.410 are, stamina and all that kind of stuff. So you 00:23:38.410 --> 00:23:40.430 have a lot of data on that, which is very objective. 00:23:40.710 --> 00:23:43.789 But we also take a lot of footage of skills. 00:23:44.109 --> 00:23:47.230 We also have the girls creating their own IDPs 00:23:47.230 --> 00:23:50.109 and obviously they track from when they first 00:23:50.109 --> 00:23:52.769 created their IDP, the goals that they keep adding 00:23:52.769 --> 00:23:55.450 and the progressions that they're making. And 00:23:55.450 --> 00:23:58.890 then I also have my own coach version of their 00:23:58.890 --> 00:24:02.509 IDP, which the players don't see, but the coaches 00:24:02.509 --> 00:24:06.140 see. And it basically just outlines within their 00:24:06.140 --> 00:24:08.420 skill sets, basically like a rag rating, I guess, 00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:12.460 of where they are at each point within the years. 00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:14.579 Oh, it's interesting you do two versions of that. 00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:18.220 So the players version and then the coaches confidential 00:24:18.220 --> 00:24:22.460 version. That must throw up some interesting 00:24:22.460 --> 00:24:24.380 conversations, I'm guessing, if there's some 00:24:24.380 --> 00:24:26.779 disparities there. Yeah, absolutely that. So 00:24:26.779 --> 00:24:29.869 with the players one. there is always a section 00:24:29.869 --> 00:24:33.009 that I write my notes in. They see some of what 00:24:33.009 --> 00:24:35.549 you're thinking. They always know where I think 00:24:35.549 --> 00:24:39.349 there's areas for development. But I think having 00:24:39.349 --> 00:24:43.589 the one with just the coach's eyes on, I think 00:24:43.589 --> 00:24:46.849 allows us to just be very honest in where we 00:24:46.849 --> 00:24:49.009 actually see that player and what the journey 00:24:49.009 --> 00:24:51.309 of that player may be. Are you quite a data... 00:24:52.259 --> 00:24:56.500 Did you do a PhD or a Masters in... I can't remember 00:24:56.500 --> 00:24:58.740 what you were doing. I've got a Masters in Criminology 00:24:58.740 --> 00:25:00.819 and Forensic Psych. Right, well, that's not really 00:25:00.819 --> 00:25:03.400 data, is it? Not really anything to do with anything, 00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:06.339 actually. Is that in any way useful? Just say 00:25:06.339 --> 00:25:08.980 that again slowly. Criminology and... Forensic 00:25:08.980 --> 00:25:10.700 Psychology. So you shouldn't have been a copper. 00:25:11.099 --> 00:25:14.980 Well, so... This is where this whole conversation 00:25:14.980 --> 00:25:17.180 of didn't ever want to be a coach comes back 00:25:17.180 --> 00:25:19.359 to. Oh, yes, you were the accidental coach. The 00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:22.299 accidental coach who... May not want to be a 00:25:22.299 --> 00:25:25.099 coach forever, but would really like to interview 00:25:25.099 --> 00:25:28.259 criminals. Okay. So that's like another just... 00:25:28.259 --> 00:25:31.700 It must help with communication skills and reading 00:25:31.700 --> 00:25:34.619 body language. I'm really clutching at straws 00:25:34.619 --> 00:25:37.680 here. Go on, help me out. No, I say this to anybody 00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:40.279 that if you're wondering, like if you really 00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:41.940 want to go to university but you don't know what 00:25:41.940 --> 00:25:44.680 to study, study psychology. Yeah. Because I just 00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:49.059 think it is in everything. So everything that 00:25:49.059 --> 00:25:52.599 I do as a coach is 100 % influenced by all of 00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:56.779 my psychological knowledge. So, yeah. So every 00:25:56.779 --> 00:26:01.420 decision you take is based on their mental, the 00:26:01.420 --> 00:26:03.740 players and yours, I suppose, and the teams and 00:26:03.740 --> 00:26:06.619 the mental state of everybody around them. And 00:26:06.619 --> 00:26:10.940 you can read that and try and act appropriately 00:26:10.940 --> 00:26:14.140 with that knowledge. Yeah, absolutely. And every 00:26:14.140 --> 00:26:17.400 decision I make, every conversation I have. there's 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:19.460 like a ripple effect. So understanding what that 00:26:19.460 --> 00:26:21.980 ripple effect might be is really important. That 00:26:21.980 --> 00:26:24.200 doesn't mean I shy away from difficult conversations. 00:26:24.200 --> 00:26:26.619 It just means that I understand what's going 00:26:26.619 --> 00:26:29.859 to come next. Yeah. So that criminology and forensic... 00:26:29.859 --> 00:26:33.559 Psychology. So there was definitely a use to 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:37.339 your subsequent coaching skill. Yeah, but also, 00:26:37.420 --> 00:26:39.339 like, I really enjoyed the course and I'm glad 00:26:39.339 --> 00:26:42.880 I did it. So whether it has impact on my coaching 00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:45.380 or not, it was still a really... cool thing to 00:26:45.380 --> 00:26:48.119 do do the players know that by the way yeah so 00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:50.579 like going back to the idp stuff so one of the 00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:53.539 things that we do in the academy space is every 00:26:53.539 --> 00:26:56.319 player will present their idp to the group which 00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:58.599 is a really really cool thing and i love that 00:26:58.599 --> 00:27:01.099 part of the program and then i present mine as 00:27:01.099 --> 00:27:04.299 well they pretty much know everything about how 00:27:04.299 --> 00:27:06.299 i've got here and where i want to go yeah so 00:27:06.299 --> 00:27:09.619 i'm just thinking Things like discipline on your 00:27:09.619 --> 00:27:11.839 pre -season tour that may or may not happen. 00:27:12.019 --> 00:27:13.420 Because you always have this, don't you? It doesn't 00:27:13.420 --> 00:27:15.559 matter what cricket you're in. People will say 00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:17.299 they're doing one thing and might be doing another 00:27:17.299 --> 00:27:21.019 at some point. And I'm thinking if they are aware 00:27:21.019 --> 00:27:23.200 of your background, they might be a little less 00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:26.839 keen to try their luck. Maybe, but whenever I 00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:30.160 mention it, when I was doing my teaching degree, 00:27:30.380 --> 00:27:33.359 one of my placements, I worked in a prison. And 00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:35.900 so, like, they love that. And so the fact that 00:27:35.900 --> 00:27:37.880 they know that I've worked in prisons, sometimes 00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:40.339 they do get a little bit scared. That's very 00:27:40.339 --> 00:27:42.740 interesting, isn't it? Is working in prisons 00:27:42.740 --> 00:27:47.000 like working in county cricket? I would say that 00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:50.160 there is absolutely no way that they could be 00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:53.220 similar. We spend a lot of time together, sometimes 00:27:53.220 --> 00:27:57.650 in confined space. On a tour, it can be quite... 00:27:57.650 --> 00:28:00.130 Yeah, and actually, when I did go on tour to 00:28:00.130 --> 00:28:01.670 South Africa when I was playing for Kent, we 00:28:01.670 --> 00:28:04.029 did stay in a hotel that used to be a prison. 00:28:04.170 --> 00:28:07.450 OK, that's very interesting. Right, just to finish, 00:28:07.509 --> 00:28:09.430 and we have touched on this already, but the 00:28:09.430 --> 00:28:11.970 way the game is moving and where you think it's 00:28:11.970 --> 00:28:14.670 going to be in a few years' time, what are you 00:28:14.670 --> 00:28:17.150 excited about seeing over the next few years 00:28:17.150 --> 00:28:19.509 and the way the women's game's developing? So 00:28:19.509 --> 00:28:23.069 I think this comes back to the fact that I love 00:28:23.069 --> 00:28:27.250 fielding. But I just think the athleticism of 00:28:27.250 --> 00:28:30.329 the game is going to get stronger year on year 00:28:30.329 --> 00:28:32.710 on year. And I think we're starting to see it 00:28:32.710 --> 00:28:36.049 now. But I think the fielding in the game is 00:28:36.049 --> 00:28:38.049 going to be something that changes the game. 00:28:38.150 --> 00:28:40.490 The skills of batting and bowling, they will 00:28:40.490 --> 00:28:43.690 also keep increasing. But I think if you're a 00:28:43.690 --> 00:28:46.269 good fielder in the next five years, you're going 00:28:46.269 --> 00:28:49.009 to change the game. So I'm really excited about 00:28:49.009 --> 00:28:52.629 that. And I just think more people... engaging 00:28:52.629 --> 00:28:54.930 with women's cricket is also going to be exciting. 00:28:55.109 --> 00:28:56.750 And I know, like I touched on it before, that 00:28:56.750 --> 00:28:59.569 the England women have had a tough time. But 00:28:59.569 --> 00:29:01.730 one of the best things for me that's come out 00:29:01.730 --> 00:29:04.150 of that is how many people are actually holding 00:29:04.150 --> 00:29:06.230 them accountable because people care about women's 00:29:06.230 --> 00:29:08.730 cricket now. While it hasn't been great because 00:29:08.730 --> 00:29:11.150 it's been negative press and negative feedback, 00:29:11.430 --> 00:29:14.509 the amount of people that are talking about it 00:29:14.509 --> 00:29:18.190 is really, really positive. That's going to start 00:29:18.190 --> 00:29:21.200 becoming more. And that's probably going to filter 00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:24.299 down from just England to now into county because 00:29:24.299 --> 00:29:27.220 we're now part of a massive family and people 00:29:27.220 --> 00:29:29.140 are going to want us to do well. And so they 00:29:29.140 --> 00:29:31.140 will hold us accountable for things. It's really 00:29:31.140 --> 00:29:32.839 interesting because a few years ago, it was all 00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:35.440 very nicey -nicey. You'd never hear any public 00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:38.279 criticism in the media or in just conversation 00:29:38.279 --> 00:29:41.319 generally of women's sport. No one, I don't know 00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:43.440 if it was just they didn't dare or they just 00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:45.680 felt it was a negative way of going. But now, 00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:47.579 and I always said, I remember saying years and 00:29:47.579 --> 00:29:50.809 years ago, until people are... negative at times 00:29:50.809 --> 00:29:53.670 and critical at times and demonstrate they're 00:29:53.670 --> 00:29:56.529 taking it seriously it's not quite happening 00:29:56.529 --> 00:29:58.910 is it women's sport but now there's a very well 00:29:58.910 --> 00:30:01.670 sometimes maybe it goes too far but very honest 00:30:01.670 --> 00:30:03.990 conversations about performance levels and you 00:30:03.990 --> 00:30:06.230 know people are super scrutinizing i suppose 00:30:06.230 --> 00:30:08.349 it's just there's more money in it and it's a 00:30:08.349 --> 00:30:10.670 much higher level of of play than it perhaps 00:30:10.670 --> 00:30:12.849 was 15 20 years ago but so that's definitely 00:30:12.849 --> 00:30:14.990 happening isn't that yeah absolutely but i also 00:30:14.990 --> 00:30:19.740 think that people are criticizing and they're 00:30:19.740 --> 00:30:22.859 talking about it because they care about it critiquing 00:30:22.859 --> 00:30:25.839 actually isn't it that's yeah so they're not 00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:29.660 just saying oh women's cricket is rubbish they're 00:30:29.660 --> 00:30:32.539 saying we didn't do this well enough that's so 00:30:32.539 --> 00:30:34.839 different because actually you're looking at 00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:38.740 the performance and you're giving up to a point 00:30:38.740 --> 00:30:42.700 an objective point of view which I think it's 00:30:42.700 --> 00:30:43.880 something that the girls are going to have to 00:30:43.880 --> 00:30:45.660 get used to, because it can feel like you take 00:30:45.660 --> 00:30:47.680 it very personally, but it's not a personal attack. 00:30:47.779 --> 00:30:50.500 It's an attack on the things that you should 00:30:50.500 --> 00:30:52.180 be held accountable for if you're a professional 00:30:52.180 --> 00:30:54.099 athlete. I see it as a really good thing, and 00:30:54.099 --> 00:30:55.940 actually I say to the girls in the academy quite 00:30:55.940 --> 00:30:59.339 a lot, if there is a point in a review meeting 00:30:59.339 --> 00:31:01.160 where I have to be like, this isn't good enough 00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:04.559 right now, I'm not doing it because I'm trying 00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:06.960 to be mean. I'm doing it because I really care. 00:31:07.549 --> 00:31:09.809 And I really want you to get better. The ability 00:31:09.809 --> 00:31:13.609 to take on constructive criticism is going to 00:31:13.609 --> 00:31:16.049 be, I think, one of the biggest things that players 00:31:16.049 --> 00:31:17.789 are going to have to learn over the next few 00:31:17.789 --> 00:31:19.509 years. So players of the future are going to 00:31:19.509 --> 00:31:21.390 need to cope with that more and more, aren't 00:31:21.390 --> 00:31:24.130 they? And have that ability to recognise it as 00:31:24.130 --> 00:31:26.650 a positive and recognise it as an important part 00:31:26.650 --> 00:31:28.450 of their development. Yeah, absolutely that. 00:31:28.549 --> 00:31:30.950 And it's not a personal attack, it's because... 00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:33.880 People want you to be better. JJ, that was very 00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:36.240 good. And we went into some areas there. I mean, 00:31:36.259 --> 00:31:38.980 the criminology, that springs out. The teaching 00:31:38.980 --> 00:31:41.819 bit. Yeah, the working in prisons. Goodness me, 00:31:41.940 --> 00:31:44.140 we went on a few tangents there. Yeah, and I 00:31:44.140 --> 00:31:47.279 think it always comes back to my philosophy in 00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:49.160 that, yes, I'm a cricket coach, but there's so 00:31:49.160 --> 00:31:52.460 much more to me. And I think that about all of 00:31:52.460 --> 00:31:54.720 my players as well. Yes, they play cricket, but 00:31:54.720 --> 00:31:56.339 there's so much more to them that isn't just 00:31:56.339 --> 00:31:59.180 cricket. And hopefully you can see that in me 00:31:59.180 --> 00:32:00.940 too. Very thought-provoking. Thank you very 00:32:00.940 --> 00:32:02.599 much for your time. Really enjoyed it. Thank 00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:05.140 you very much. Jennifer Jackson-Tullett speaking 00:32:05.140 --> 00:32:08.420 at The Oval. Thanks to her for her time. That's 00:32:08.420 --> 00:32:10.700 it for this episode of The icoachcricket Podcast. 00:32:11.240 --> 00:32:13.619 There'll be another episode ready to download 00:32:13.619 --> 00:32:16.480 this time next week. But for now, thanks for 00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:16.799 listening.