Oracy is broader than this, so it's not just
about the mechanics of language itself, but how
we use language to organise our thoughts and
talk about our ideas and build relationships.
A phrase that you might hear quite a lot in relation
to oracy is that it's both about learning to
talk and learning through talk. If we think about
the kind of language we use when we talk about
thoughts and feelings, we have words like think,
feel, know, believe. So being able to understand
and use these words helps children not only to
make sense of their own experiences, tell their
own stories and regulate their emotions. but
it also helps them to understand that others
have their own thoughts and feelings. These language
experiences don't just shape children's kind
of day -to -day interactions, they're also linked
to long -term outcomes. Having these skills in
the early years is really important to sort of
set children on a positive path for the rest
of their lives. If we put it in the broader picture,
I guess oracy skills are essential for children
to grow into kind of active and informed members
of societies. Hi everyone and welcome to the
Norfolk Early Years podcast Let's Talk series,
a show that helps early years practitioners and
professionals understand more about effectively
supporting children's speech, language and communication
development in the early years. I'm Jo Patterson
and I'm Ashley Cater. And we are Early Years
Communication and Language Development Officers
within Norfolk County Council's Early Years team.
And today, we're privileged to be joined by the
very knowledgeable Dr Nicola Dawson, researcher
at Oxford University, speech and language therapist
at Morehouse School and College, and advocate
for all things language literacy and oracy. In
today's episode, we're going to be exploring
what we mean by the term oracy and how we can
build this into our early years practice. So
without further ado, let's talk building oracy
in the early years. So welcome, Nikki. Could
you start by telling us a little bit about who
you are, where you're based and how you ended
up in your current role? Yes, thank you for the
introduction. So I'm Nikki Dawson. I'm a researcher
and speech and language therapist. So I currently
split my time across two settings. So four days
a week, I'm based at the University of Oxford,
where I work as a research fellow. And then one
day a week, I'm based at Morehouse School and
College in Surrey. So this is a specialist educational
provision for children and adolescents with developmental
language disorder, which I might go into a little
bit more later. And these children are aged between
seven and 19 years old. And so I'm based in the
research and training institute that's attached
to the school. And my role there is mainly to
conduct research into language interventions
for DLD and also to share our findings with others
in speech and language therapy practice and education.
So in terms of how I ended up here, I actually
started with a degree in English literature.
So reading and books were always something I
loved. And I was very happy to spend three years
reading and thinking about words and language.
And then I became interested in language development
during a couple of years as an au pair in Paris.
So I lived with a multilingual family and I saw
firsthand what language development across three
different languages simultaneously looked like.
And so following that, I decided to train as
a speech and language therapist. So this was
around 15 years ago. And I was then based for
around three years in mainstream school services.
And then I moved into academia as a research
assistant where I worked on a project looking
at reading and vocabulary skills in early adolescence.
And from there, I did my PhD, which was focused
more on reading skills, again, in adolescent
learners. And then finally, after completing
my PhD, I had a really wonderful opportunity
to start a role at Oxford as a researcher. So
this was on a project. funded by the Nuffield
Foundation, where we were looking at the language
of children's books, particularly picture books
aimed at children in the early years, and thinking
about how hearing the language of these books
regularly supports children's language development
and oracy. Super, thank you. Very interesting
backstory. So as we know, we're going to be talking
a little bit about oracy today, which I know
you're really passionate about. And I'm mindful
that in the 2024 oracy report, we need to talk.
It says, to date, there has been no universally
agreed upon definition of oracy, nor a broad
consensus on its role in education. So for the
purposes of this podcast and the conversation
that we're about to have, I was wondering if
you could start by sharing your definition of
oracy and what this looks like in education.
OK, yeah, sure. So I think very broadly, oracy
refers to how we express ourselves and how we
develop understanding. and how we listen to and
respond to others effectively through speaking,
listening and communication. So some examples
of oracy in everyday life might include things
like presenting in class or collaborating in
group work, reciting a poem or being interviewed
for a job. So essentially what we're talking
about firstly is children's ability to express
what they mean confidently. So this doesn't necessarily
mean just sounding polished, but it's about having
the skills to communicate their thoughts and
intentions. And secondly, another aspect of RSC
is using speaking and listening as tools for
thinking and learning. So this is how we develop
understanding through RSC. And then the third
key part is to be able to communicate effectively
with others in different situations. So I think
an important thing to note is that this definition
talks about speaking, listening and communication.
So this can also include nonverbal forms of communication,
such as sign language or use of communication
aids, for example. And so I think this raises
quite an important distinction between oracy
and oral language skills. So I see oral language
skills as a kind of critical component of oracy,
but it's not the complete picture. So when we
talk about oral language, we're kind of talking
about the mechanics of language used in spoken
communication. So, for example, speech sounds,
vocabulary, grammar and so on. But oracy is broader
than this. So it's not just about the mechanics
of language itself, but how we use language to
organise our thoughts and talk about our ideas
and build relationships. So a phrase that you
might hear quite a lot in relation to oracy is
that it's both about learning to talk and learning
through talk. So I think that's quite an important
kind of pairing to bear in mind. And then in
terms of how it's been introduced in education.
So Voice 21, who are one of the kind of main
charities involved in promoting oracy, have kind
of put forward the oracy framework, which is
a way that they suggest provides a kind of structured
way to teach and evaluate oracy skills. So their
kind of way of thinking about oracy is that it's
equivalent to things like literacy and numeracy
and it should be kind of taught systematically
in the same way. And so there are four strands
of the oracy framework. So first of all, physical.
So this relates to things like speech sound development,
how we pace our speech and things like body language
and so on. Then there's the linguistic strand,
which might be kind of more what we think about
when we think about oral language skills, so
vocabulary, grammar, syntax. Things like metaphor,
maybe register, those kinds of things. Then there's
the cognitive strand. So this is kind of how
we choose particular content to convey a meaning.
So it might be things like structuring our arguments,
explaining our reasoning, thinking aloud and
self -regulation, things like that. And then
finally, there's the social and emotional strand.
So this is about the building relationships,
working with others, kind of confidence in speaking,
turn taking and so on. So each of these kind
of strands feeds into what we are talking about
when we talk about oracy and also provides a
little bit of structure for earlier settings
and schools to think about how they can kind
of embed oracy within the curriculum. Brilliant.
Thanks, Nikki. So now we kind of know what oracy
is. Can you explain a little bit about the role
that oracy plays in our day to day life? So I'm
thinking more along from a perspective of. building
a well -functioning society, but also that personal
standpoint as well. And why is having good oracy
skills important on both of these levels? Okay,
yeah, that's a really big question, actually.
So let's break it down a little bit. And I'll
start by talking about personal development.
So we can think about this both in terms of children's
learning and also their social and emotional
development. So if we talk first about learning,
so we know from research that having strong spoken
language skills in the early years really sets
the stage for later success in reading and writing.
There's a very direct link between oral language
and learning to read and write. So, for example,
when we look at longitudinal studies that follow
the same children over a period of time, we find
that children who have very limited language
skills at age five. are then around four times
more likely to have poor adult literacy at age
34 compared to those whose language skills are
kind of as expected on school entry and then
of course as children get older and they move
through primary and secondary school these literacy
skills become ever more important and this is
kind of a shift in education from learning to
read to reading to learn so if you haven't got
those fundamental skills then children are going
to struggle across the board. So those kind of
reading and writing skills are absolutely essential,
not just in subjects like English, but also maths,
science and basically everything else. So by
prioritising oracy in the early years, we're
setting a really strong foundation for these
later skills to develop. And then if we think
about children's kind of social and emotional
development, I've already kind of touched on
how oracy skills are central to how children
build relationships. So we can think about, you
know, we draw on language very... heavily when
we're resolving conflicts or we're asking for
help. So children really need all of these skills
in order to build those social relationships.
And of course, that has a knock -on effect for
emotional well -being and kind of feeling of
social belonging. So for example, if we think
about the kind of language we use when we talk
about thoughts and feelings, we have words like
think, feel, know, believe. So being able to
understand and use these words. helps children
not only to make sense of their own experiences,
tell their own stories and regulate their emotions,
but it also helps them to understand that others
have their own thoughts and feelings. And so
this is at the heart of theory of mind, so the
ability to understand that other people have
thoughts, beliefs and emotions that might be
different from your own. And we can see how this
language can work in practice through, for example,
listening to stories or engaging in pretend play.
So in stories, children encounter characters
with different perspectives, different kind of
motivations, who experience different emotions.
And so language can kind of give children to
the tools to reflect on these mental states and
also hopefully then to be able to navigate their
own social worlds with the kind of empathy and
understanding of others. Again, these language
experiences don't just shape children's kind
of day -to -day interactions, they're also linked
to long -term outcomes too. So for example, when
we look at other longitudinal research, we find
that children with language that's below the
expected level at school entry, so around five
years old, they have a much higher risk of mental
health problems around 30 years later, so almost
three times higher, even after we take into account
things like family background and early health
that might also explain that relationship. And
they're also twice as likely to experience long
periods of unemployment. So, yeah, having these
skills in the early years is really important
to sort of set children on a positive path for
the rest of their lives. But of course, there's
a word of caution here because we can't say that
early language problems directly cause these
outcomes. There are always many complex interacting
factors. But these associations do reinforce,
I think, just how important it is to support
children's communication from the start. not
just for school readiness, but also for their
long term well -being and life chances. And then
I think the other thing you mentioned was about
kind of society, which is, again, is a big question.
So, you know, if we put it in the broader picture,
I guess oracy skills are essential for children
to grow into kind of active and informed members
of society. So we live in a very what you could
describe as an information based society. So
information and knowledge are kind of at the
heart of everything about kind of. economic lives
our social and cultural lives as well so we're
constantly sharing um receiving information via
texts um social media and emails and so on and
we're surrounded by kind of 24 -hour news um
people's opinions and blogs and and so on um
and also when you talk to um the summaries that
showing that employers are really kind of prioritizing
uh kind of oracy and collaboration within the
workplace so all of this means that being able
to kind of critically evaluate what you hear
and understand people's different viewpoints
is really important just for participating in
society. And it also, of course, gives people
a voice to speak up for things that are important
to them. So taking part in campaigns for change
or writing to an MP, all of that draws on your
ability to frame language in a way that's persuasive
and argumentative. So I guess by supporting these
skills early on, we're providing children then
with the tools they need to navigate society
in the kind of modern world. And so there seems
to be a bit of a growing spotlight on Oracy at
the moment, Nikki. And I personally feel that
I've heard more about Oracy in the last two or
three years in my career than I have, you know,
for the previous 10 potentially. It seems to
be a bit of a buzzword at the moment, not necessarily
just in early years, but I think across across
the board in education. And I know you mentioned
earlier about Voice 21 and the role that that
charity is playing in spreading awareness of
Oracy. But what I wanted to know is who else
is talking about Oracy and what is being said
and why is that so important at the moment? Yeah,
so Voice 21, obviously one of the kind of leading
organisations in promoting Oracy. So they're
an education charity founded around 10 years
ago, I think, as part of a collaboration between
Cambridge University and a school in East London,
which I think that work was funded by the Education
Endowment Foundation. And so, yeah, their kind
of purpose and aim is to support schools in embedding
oracy into their curriculums. But they also campaign
for oracy to have greater recognition more broadly
within the education system. And so as part of
this, they set up the Oracy Education Commission,
which produced a report last year called We Need
to Talk. I know you're familiar with that. So
one of the things that the report argues for
is this more kind of explicit recognition and
teaching of oracy. And for it to be given this
kind of equal status with things like literacy
and numeracy. But I think, as you say, it's become
a bit of a buzzword, really. And I think more
broadly, there's a growing interest from across
education and even extending, as I say, to employers
and policymakers. So, for example, Keir Starmer
made a commitment to making RSC a priority at
all stages of education. And I think it's going
to feature in the upcoming curriculum and assessment
review. It should be published this year. So
in terms of timing, I think the COVID -19 pandemic
and kind of lockdowns had a lot to do with it
and played a big part. So this meant that obviously
children missed out on education and potentially
also missed out on kind of rich face -to -face
interactions during that very critical period
of early development, particularly for children
who were in the early years of the time. And
so this had the effect of kind of widening existing
social inequalities. So, for example. If you
take away these universal educational experiences,
then children's learning is much more dependent
on the resources and language -rich interactions
that are available at home. And of course, this
can vary greatly between families for whatever
reason. And another reason why we might see a
kind of growing interest in ROC now is that we
live, as I say, in a society that's seen very
rapid technological changes in recent years.
So with the increasing use of AI, It feels like
humans, you know, very human specific skills
like communication, empathy, persuasion, critical
discussion. These kinds of things that AI can't
so easily replicate might become more and more
valuable to employers. But I think there's also
here maybe a note of caution around what oracy
can and can't do. So, for example, oracy is sometimes
being framed as a path to greater social equality.
it does clearly underpin so much of learning
and personal and social development that might
open up opportunities for children that they
may not otherwise have. Some people have argued
that this framing can sometimes overlook deeper
structural issues relating to inequalities, such
as how certain ways of speaking are privileged
over others. So I think, yes, there's a lot of
excitement about the idea of oracy and a lot
of drive to really embed this across education.
But at the same time, there are other voices
just kind of sounding a note of caution about
sort of what we, you know, it being a kind of
fix all for everything, I suppose. Excellent.
So we're now going to shift that focus to practice
and pedagogy. And I think it's really important
to recognise that like most things in the early
years, RSC education isn't about buying into
a rigid intervention programme that pulls children
out of their learning environment. and away from
their peers, but instead it's about us finding
ways to weave in effective practices into our
continuous provision and offer children lots
of opportunities for talk and child -led play
in ways that work for that setting. So with that
in mind, we thought it would be really helpful
to explore some of the ideas and strategies that
practitioners can use to enhance their practice.
We're going to look at the environment. And so
can you think about how practitioners can create
a learning environment that effectively supports
and nurtures children's oracy development? So
the learning environment really needs to offer
a kind of wide range of opportunities for language
rich activity across the day. So ideally, this
would include spaces for activities such as role
play, storytelling, small group interactions.
kind of activities where children can practice
using their language in new and imaginative ways.
And we can think quite carefully about how to
design these spaces in ways that are likely to
promote engagement and learning. So, for example,
you could rotate setups for play settings. So,
for example, rotating between a shop, a home,
a hospital, because this would give children
opportunities to use and hear a broader range
of vocabulary. So the words and phrases that
we typically use in shops are quite different
from what we might use in hospitals. So providing
this kind of wide range of possible play scenarios
can then give children opportunities to experiment
with more diverse language and also potentially
language that they might not come across in their
kind of day -to -day lives. We can also think
about the props that we are kind of including
in the setting. So using real world props like
telephones or shopping baskets, puppets and costumes
and so on, can encourage children to sort of
take on different roles and to build narratives.
And then this kind of imaginative play can often
lead to extended talk because children are kind
of negotiating these roles and trying to solve
problems between themselves. Another area that
I'm very passionate about is the availability
of books and stories. So these could include
kind of traditional stories from different cultures
and also maybe bilingual books. If you have a
high proportion of children speaking English
as an additional language. Nice that these books
can cover a variety of genres. So fiction, but
also potentially nonfiction, if that's more engaging
for certain children. And maybe books that reflect
children's own experiences. So there are lots
of books out there that's sort of written. with
kind of experiences such as loss or bereavement
in mind. And so children who might be going through
this can then find a book that sort of speaks
to them in that situation. And finally, I know
for a nice reason, earlier settings are very
noisy usually and usually space is an issue.
But if you can kind of create a space that's
a little bit more quiet, a little bit less distracting,
those can be quite nice for children who... maybe
find it a little bit overwhelming or maybe if
you want to work one -to -one or have more group
conversations. And so this space can be a bit
more kind of calm and promote more focused engagement.
And for some children that might kind of boost
their confidence in kind of talking up and using
their voice. So Nikki, you touched on the importance
of books just then when you were talking about
providing rich play experiences. Why is storytelling
so important to building children's oracy? Yeah.
So books and storytelling can really be an excellent
way to provide these kind of rich language experiences.
Obviously, it provides children with the opportunity
to kind of listen to and structure their own
narratives. But also we've done some work showing
that even though children can't yet read independently
necessarily in the early years, the language
of children's books is much more complex and
richer than the language that they get from everyday
conversation. So actually, by reading books with
children or even telling stories that uses this
kind of book language, I'm talking about book
language as being a sort of different type of
language that we use in those kinds of contexts,
but not necessarily just the words on the page.
So it kind of gives children a way into books
when they can't actually access them themselves
because they're not yet reading. So what we found
in our own research was that when we look at
children's picture books, so these are books
aimed at really young children, they already
contain a wider range of words. Going back to
the idea that children can experience language
that's related to scenarios that they might not
experience firsthand in everyday life. So if
we think about when we're talking to children
during daily routines, often because it's the
same routine every day, we're using the same
language. But if you're reading children picture
books that relate to lots of different scenarios,
fantasy and so on, then the kind of language
that's going to be in those books is going to
be much more diverse than what they would get
from conversation. And we also found that the
words in books tend to be much more sophisticated.
So they're the kind of words that children would
tend to acquire later on in development. So by
giving children exposure to these words early
on in their development, we're kind of laying
the foundations for that later, more literate
language knowledge. Another thing we found that
was that these picture books contain more emotion
words. And so this is really important when we're
thinking about the development of children's
emotion vocabulary. and their ability to talk
about their feelings. And as I mentioned earlier,
to understand the thoughts and feelings of others.
And as I say, it's not just about the content
of the books. They also can provide an excellent
springboard for kind of role play and practicing
narrative skills. So you can link books to play
in order to extend those language opportunities.
So for example, after reading a story about going
to the doctor, you might set up a role play area
that has sort of medical props. And then that
provides opportunities for children to try out
this new vocabulary that they'd encountered in
the story. in a kind of meaningful and imaginative
way. Yeah I think it really highlights how important
it is to have books freely available all day
during your setting not just at story time necessarily
but just available within the provision for children
to access as and when they want to. Yeah. Thank
you that was that was really interesting. I was
also just going to do a little plug here for
the Norfolk Library Service as well. We're really
privileged to have a fantastic library service
here in Norfolk. And I'm sure we're going to
talk a little bit about parents and carers later
and the role that they play in building children's
oracy. But even for our settings, I know that
the Norfolk Library Service is always very willing
to work with settings to find books that they
may want to introduce into their settings. So
that's just a reminder, I guess, for our practitioners
to make use of that service because it's extremely
valuable. Thank you Nikki for sharing that information
on practice and pedagogy. We're now going to
move on to talk a little bit about the role of
the adult and interactions. I'm trying to put
myself in the shoes of an early years practitioner
who's standing in their setting or in their reception
classroom and as you touched on earlier it can
be quite a busy place, sometimes quite a noisy
place as well and I'm sure there'll be lots of
play and interactions that are just happening
naturally around them. So my question is, what
can practitioners do to turn those everyday moments
and interactions into opportunities for really
meaningful talk that's going to enhance their
oracy skills? Yeah, I think this is really key.
So as we've kind of touched on, I think oracy
development doesn't require a special session.
It's something that can happen throughout the
day, kind of in the flow of everyday interactions.
You know, but particularly when the adults are
kind of consciously thinking about how they can
promote these kind of rich language skills for
children. So a few things that practitioners
could sort of think about kind of very specific
things is firstly, think about how you're asking
questions. So really, we want to be trying to
ask open ended questions that gives children
the kind of opportunity to expand on their responses.
So using questions like how, why. What do you
think? Why do you think? This is going to help
to kind of extend children's thinking and also
invite them to use richer language in their responses.
So, for example, if you say, why do you think
the caterpillar ate so much? This is going to
encourage kind of reasoning and explanation rather
than just a yes or no answer, which is what we
get maybe if we ask slightly more closed questions.
Another thing we can do is try to encourage multi
-turn conversations. So by that, I mean exchanges
between the adult and the child that goes beyond
just one question and answer. So to do this,
we can just allow some time. So we're in conversation
with a child, but we pause and we wait for their
response. And just by pausing, we can indicate
that we are kind of anticipating that the child
might say something back. So this is going to
support kind of contingent language use. So where
the adult's responding to the child's focus and
also potentially joint attention as well. And
it also, of course, shows a genuine interest
in what children are saying. Another key thing
is obviously children in earlier settings are,
you know, the language skills are very much still
developing. So children are going to be using
slightly simpler sentence structures than they
would if they were older. But we can actually
take what they've said and build on it. So we're
modelling a slightly more complex version of
what they've initially said. So, for example,
if a child says he's mad. we could say something
like, yes, he looks frustrated because he lost
his toy. So you can see how we're not sort of
asking them to produce that more complex sentence
and we're not sort of telling them they're wrong
in any way, but we're just agreeing with them,
but also adding something and modelling that
more complex sentence structure with kind of
reasoning embedded in there. Another thing we
can do is just comment on what children are doing.
So if we're kind of narrating what they're doing
currently in that moment, especially during routines
or play, then... This is going to sort of help
them to sort of provide them with a language
model that they might then be able to use themselves
at a later point. And I think what's quite important
to say is that we're modelling this language
without actually correcting them. So we're not
putting children on the spot or correcting any
grammatical errors directly. But instead, we're
just modelling the kind of more advanced form
of language naturally within the conversation.
And then finally, going back to what I was saying
about shared book reading. And so I was talking
about sort of the language of the books themselves.
But of course, book reading is also an opportunity
to use kind of dialogic book talk. So we could
ask both literal questions, but also inferential
questions, ask children to make predictions about
what they think is going to happen next. We can
read a page, leave a pause and see if children
can come up with what they think the next word
might be. and just allow space for children to
express what they think. So things like, you
know, why do you think the rabbit is hiding?
This is going to allow them the opportunity to
promote reasoning and possibly empathy as well.
Super, thank you. You mentioned it a little bit
there in your answer, but for children that feel
self -conscious with their speech, it might be
that they have a speech and language need or
perhaps they're just a little bit less confident
than their peers. How do we go about building
that oracy? when they may feel quite self -conscious?
Yeah so many of the strategies as you say I just
mentioned will help to make sure that our kind
of interactions with children are sensitive and
responsive. So if we follow the child's lead
and we build on the contributions that they've
made then we're less likely to make them feel
judged or exposed compared to if we sort of put
them on the spot or correct their errors. So
I think the key thing here is to focus on what
they're saying not how they're saying it. If
a child is shy about speaking, for example, we
can still model rich language. So, for example,
if we're talking, you know, about something with
the child in the immediate environment, we can
model sort of thinking language or metacognitive
language such as I wonder if or I think. So what
we're doing there is modelling the process of
thinking, showing children how to think and reason
and reflect. But we're not directly putting them
on the spot. And of course, this more generally
will promote. a kind of a culture where this
sort of wondering and questioning and not knowing
are just part of learning. And that's what we
want children to understand because we want them
to embrace that kind of language in their own
kind of oracy skills. And as I said, we can use
comments rather than testing questions. So testing
questions are things that we already know the
answer to. So if we ask, for example, what colour
is that or what's this called? Children know
that we already know the answer to that, so then
that makes them feel as though they're being
tested. And it might make them feel under pressure.
But if we comment, then this puts less pressure
on children because they can choose how they
want to answer. So if we say, for example, wow,
I love this purple car, the child might then
take that as an invitation to tell you about
their favourite colour or their car or something
else completely. And then I guess another way
we can reduce pressure on individual children
is just to embrace oracy as a whole. class or
whole setting thing it's something that everybody
does not something that particular children are
singled out for and there's no kind of right
or wrong yeah and I suppose maybe small group
work might be useful here as well particularly
if that group is kind of carefully selected so
children might be more comfortable kind of interacting
with with some peers than others and it's also
then easier for practitioners to tailor their
own language support to a child's developmental
level and then I suppose also thinking about
feedback and praise so we're praising kind of
effort and ideas not kind of a pronunciation
or grammar um so it kind of reinforces the message
that what matters is communicating thinking together
not necessarily getting it right so we just wanted
to touch a little bit on um send if that's okay
nikki um how can oracy teaching in the early
years be adapted to effectively support children
with send and ensure that their ways of communicating
are not overlooked Yeah, this is a really important
question. So I guess the first thing to acknowledge
is that oracy shouldn't mean valuing just one
type of talk. And hopefully that's come across
already. So we need to be a little bit mindful
of this value that we're assigning to oracy skills,
because I guess there's a potential for bias
towards more extrovert or verbal children. And
so if we focus too narrowly on just confident,
fluent speech. we risk overlooking children with
SEND who may communicate differently. So given
the kind of central role of oral language skills
in oracy, children with language difficulties
may be particularly in need of adaptive approaches
or increased adult support and also more time
and more practice. So as I mentioned earlier,
I work with children, although mostly older children,
with developmental language disorder or DRD.
So this is a lifelong condition in which children
have difficulty understanding and using their
first language, so it's not about learning a
second language, and where there's no obvious
cause for this. So it's not the kind of outcome
of a biomedical condition such as hearing loss
or a neurological condition. So DLD affects around
7 .5 % of the population, or to put it another
way, two children in every classroom. So it's
as common as dyslexia and more common than...
autistic spectrum disorder but there's much less
public awareness around it and DLD might be difficult
to diagnose in the early years because a lot
of the children who are late talkers go on to
then develop age -appropriate language but within
an oracy context I guess some early signs might
be things like children using fewer words than
other children or maybe taking longer to start
combining those words into sentences they might
struggle to follow instructions especially if
there are kind of multiple steps to those instructions.
They might find it harder to answer these kind
of open -ended questions that we've been talking
about or to retell what's happened in a story
or what they've done in their day. So there's
kind of unstructured narrative skills. And they
might produce sentences that are short or incomplete
or ungrammatical in a way that is not kind of
typical of their developmental stage. So maybe
something like me go park instead of I went to
the park. And of course, these children might
also appear quiet or frustrated or disengaged,
particularly during activities that are language
heavy. And so often these kinds of language difficulties
might be labelled as behavioural issues. So then
if we're thinking about sort of adaptations that
we might make to support these children with
SEND, including those with DRD, they will often
need more time to process information and instructions.
And also to formulate their own ideas and plan
what they want to say. So I guess one way that
we can address this without singling out children
is to try and create an environment where thinking
time is normalised for everyone. Another adaptation
is to use visual support. So children with DLD
and other special educational needs often have
difficulties with working memory. And so while
language is very transient and it sort of appears
the moment we speak. Something that's visual
is a bit more permanent and it allows the child
time to process what they've heard. So this could
be things like pictures or symbols or even just
gestures. So, for example, during tidy up time,
practitioners could use a visual schedule or
they might use kind of picture cards showing
each area of the room, like a picture of the
book corner, the blocks, the water tray, alongside
the spoken instructions that they're giving.
And so this would help children with language
difficulties who might not be able to process.
multi -step verbal instructions straight away
by giving them a kind of clear visual reminder
that they can refer back to while they complete
the task and sort of linked to this we can think
about how we word those instructions and break
them down into more manageable chunks so rather
than saying something like before you go outside
put your painting on the drying rack and wash
your hands and that's a very complex instruction
because it involves two actions plus a before
you go outside it's a third action that's sort
of somewhere happening in the future It also
includes a word that's kind of related to a time
concept, which can be very challenging for children
with language difficulties, so before. So instead,
we could say something like, let's put your painting
on the drying rack. Now it's time to wash your
hands. Then we can go outside. So you're really
breaking that down into single steps, which really
helps with that kind of temporal sequencing.
And then, of course, that's even better if you
have pictures or symbols that you can point to.
And then another adaptation is repetition. So
this is also really important for children with
language difficulties. or DLD. So research shows
that children with language difficulties need
around three times as many exposures to a word
that's embedded in a storybook to learn it compared
to children with typical language development.
That's really interesting. I was just going to
quickly ask, you mentioned about take -up time
and thinking time. How much thinking time is
enough thinking time, in your opinion? That's
a really good question. So I guess, I mean, I
don't have a magic number. um i guess it's about
being sensitive it will vary depending on you
know the children that you have in your setting
so their age you know their their needs um and
and the individual children you're working with
at that particular point in time um but i i think
it's yeah it's about sort of just trying to it
doesn't i think it matters less about sort of
how much time you give and more that it's something
that's just normalized because you don't want
it to sort of come across as for this particular
child you have to wait a long time but for everybody
else they're just going to reply straight away
so it's about kind of making that a part of how
we think and how we respond to everybody. Maybe
not so much about how long it needs to be. I
think, as I say, that would sort of be, you know,
practitioners know the children in their setting
better than anyone else. So I think they would
probably have a good idea of those children and
what they need. I think the reason I ask is I
think sometimes as adults, silence can feel really
overwhelming. And actually, we have this real
tendency to sometimes jump in and, you know,
something that maybe feels like 10 seconds might
actually be three or four seconds, but it just
feels a long time because we're not used to having
a silence there and waiting for a response. Yeah.
So, yeah, it's a really important reminder to
just be mindful of that take up time and that
thinking time and, you know, make sure we are
doing that inclusively and doing it across our
classroom for every child. So, no, really good
reminder. So maybe that's a good place to start
is just to sort of get used to. OK, five seconds
doesn't sound like a long time, but let's just
time it and see how long that feels like, you
know, and just get used to that feeling of waiting.
Because I agree, I think it's very much kind
of an instinct that we want to jump in because
we want to help children, you know, and it's
that kind of instinct to, you know, either answer
for them or, you know, provide a prompt or do
something when actually maybe just what they
need is a little bit more time to formulate their
thoughts. So, Nikki, we've kind of touched on
how would we best support or see development
for those children with English as an additional
language? OK, so I think the first thing to say
is that children who use English as an additional
language are language learners, so they're not
language delayed. Although, of course, there
might be some cases where there is also an underlying
language difficulty. And also, although we obviously
group them together as EAL, these children do
represent a very diverse group who come from
a range of social... economic and geographical
backgrounds. So with this in mind I guess an
important thing to think about is valuing and
drawing on that child's first language so children's
home languages are a resource rather than a barrier
so encouraging children to use all of their languages
helps to kind of build conceptual understanding
because they can sort of see how different concepts
go across different languages and also of course
it helps to support their feelings of identity
and confidence. So even if staff in the setting
don't speak the same language, just by showing
interest or using kind of bilingual books or
visuals or encouraging home language use with
families can make a big difference. And I guess,
you know, similarly, as we've talked about previously,
modelling kind of very rich and clear English
and meaningful contexts can be helpful for children.
So as we talked about, language learning is most
effective when it's embedded in kind of real
world experiences. Again, narrating on children's
actions, commenting on play and using repetition
and gestures and so on to support understanding.
And then I think, you know, the question around
creating activities and opportunities to talk
without that pressure is important here too.
So again, that kind of small group work or short
shared storytelling gives children with speaking
English as an additional language to opportunities
to hear and practice language in kind of more
low stakes settings. And finally, I think going
back to the idea of giving children time, so
they might just need some time to tune in to
the rhythms and patterns of English. So if they
are quiet in activities, we don't want to put
pressure on them to speak. We can sort of respect
the fact that this might be part of their learning
process of kind of acquiring English and still
include them in these activities, but just not
putting pressure on them to contribute in ways
that they're not necessarily comfortable with.
I think it really highlights, doesn't it, just
what a diverse range of needs we have in our
classrooms nowadays and in our settings. Obviously,
we've spoken about SEND and particularly developmental
language delay. We've spoken about EAL children
and also the whole range of other different speech
and language needs that are out there as well
that we haven't even touched on. So just to throw
another one in the mix, why don't we? I wanted
to quickly talk about dialects as well. which
perhaps is something that we don't often think
about when we're thinking about the kind of languages
that present in our classroom. So obviously when
we talk about dialects, we're talking about the
way that we kind of use unique words and phrases
and how they may have been pronounced slightly
differently in different parts of the country.
And with people moving around a lot more these
days, I think it's not that uncommon that we
probably do see a range of dialects within our
setting. So I was just having a little think.
I don't know. I know that, Nikki, you're based
in Oxford and you're probably not a Norfolk girl
like me and Jo maybe are at the moment. But obviously
in Norfolk, we have a few of our own little phrases
and sayings. So I thought I'd give you a little
test, see if you know what these mean. Do you
know a bishy barnaby? I don't. So that's a Norfolk
saying for a ladybird. And something else that
we might often say in Norfolk as well is that
we might refer to something being on the huh.
Have you heard of that one before? So if something
is on the huh in Norfolk, it means it's on the
wonk. You might hang a picture frame and it might
be on the huh, it might be on the wonk a little
bit. But yeah, just thinking about dialects and
all of this being in mind, how do we ensure that
we are celebrating language diversity and dialect
in our classroom, particularly around our work
with Oracy? And not just valuing, I think, what
people seem to call standard English or the Queen's
English as being the kind of only correct form
of speaking. Yeah, I think this is a really important
consideration around oracy. So I guess the most
important message to get across is that oracy
is about adding to a child's communication toolkit,
not replacing what they already have. So we're
not trying to erase or correct children's home
language or dialect or that kind of cultural
ways of speaking. But it's true, I think, that
the education system and society more widely
do privilege certain kinds of speech, usually
this more formal standard English. And while,
of course, there is growing recognition that
we need to value different ways of speaking,
I think there's still a long way to go. But I
guess in the meantime, by exposing children to
kind of different modes of language, we can try
and give them the understanding and the skills
to code switch or adapt their language for different
contexts. What do we mean by modes of language,
sorry? Yeah, so I mean sort of different registers
potentially. So, you know, the language that
we use when we are, let's say, I don't know,
in a courtroom is going to be very different
to the kind of language we use when we're out
having a drink with our friends, you know. And
same, you know, even for children, you know,
they learn that the way they speak maybe to siblings
at home is very different to the way they speak
to kind of teachers or practitioners in earlier
settings. yeah so it's just the idea it's just
being aware that language can be used differently
and is used differently across different contexts
and so having the knowledge and the flexibility
to be able to adapt your communication style
to suit these contexts I think is a really important
skill for children to learn and that's what I
mean too about not replacing we're not saying
that what they the way they speak is wrong in
any way that's absolutely valid um but you know
the way I speak is different depending on the
context that I'm in so yeah and I guess you know
in terms of celebrating language diversity within
early years practices, I suppose, recognising
that, you know, dialects aren't kind of incorrect
versions of English. They have actually their
own structures and vocabulary and grammar. And
so kind of validating them and legitimising them
as forms of communication can help children feel
respected and included. So we can sort of help
children to explore how language varies in different
contexts. So you could say something like. We
use different words at home, at school or in
stories and then explore some of these examples
of children just to kind of really make explicit
this idea that language is something that's very
creative and very flexible. And of course, you
know, you could use books or songs or storytelling
that actually reflects these different dialects
of the children in your setting. So maybe you
could invite families to share phrases or idioms
that they use and kind of build these into activities
or displays within the earlier settings. That's
a really nice idea. I think it's nice to kind
of help build their identity as well and the
way that they feel connected to the area that
they're from. So, yeah, they're really lovely
suggestions. Yeah, and I think just showing curiosity
as well. So, you know, if a child is using a
particular word or a particular phrase, you know,
you can ask them about it, you know, or just
say, you know, what words do you use at home
for this? Or what does your family call this?
You know, you can sort of talk about the fact
that people use that language in different ways.
Lovely. Thank you, Nikki. Okay, we're going to
kind of move on to, you know, what we think may
be some challenges and opportunities. So I guess
the first thing we just want to ask you, Nikki,
is what barriers do our early years practitioners
face in prioritising oracy? And do you feel there
are any strategies they can sort of use to overcome
these barriers? Yeah, so I suppose, particularly
when children get to reception, I suppose one
barrier is that there's a lot of pressure to
get children kind of school ready so often that's
sort of means focusing on early reading like
foundational reading skills and numeracy but
as we've discussed you know oracy is the foundation
that supports all of that so if children can't
express themselves or understand spoken instructions
then they're going to struggle when it comes
to learning phonics or reading stories or and
you know even joining in with early mark making
on paper so I guess that, you know, overcoming
that barrier is just about recognising that we
can do oracy through everything that we do, not
just as a sort of separate thing and separate
kind of element to children's learning. And I
guess another challenge potentially is practitioner
confidence around knowing what good oracy practice
looks like. I mean, we've discussed a little
bit about the definition of oracy, and I don't
think anybody is really in agreement about what
it means. So, you know, how are we expecting
earliest practitioners to know what it means?
So I think. You know, it's sort of trying to
embed what we know is good practice in terms
of early language skills into our everyday work.
And I think that kind of highlights the need
as well for targeted professional development
and kind of practical strategies, the kinds of
things that we've been talking about that can
show practitioners how they can embed RSC and
also what they're already doing. I think that's
another important point. Actually, I think. Early
years settings are almost at the forefront of
oracy because for a long time, oral language
skills have been very important across the early
years foundation stage curriculum. And, you know,
it's recognised that speaking and listening actually
underpin all of the seven areas of learning.
So in some ways, I think we can look to early
years settings as being an example of how oracy
education is already happening. And then I guess,
you know, there's a sort of setting that we've
talked about as well. The fact that, you know,
earlier settings are very busy and noisy places.
So it can be hard to kind of prioritise talk
within those settings. But I think, again, these
little changes can have a big impact over time.
So slowing down to really listen to children,
using these open -ended questions or setting
up a kind of area that involves sort of quieter
time and more opportunities for one -to -one
talk. I think remembering as well as a practitioner
amongst all of the busyness and the things that
you're probably thinking that you need to do,
it's kind of remembering the key skills, isn't
it, that you've mentioned earlier. And I'm just
wondering whether perhaps visual aids for the
practitioners as well as the children sometimes
just to remind yourself to do some of those early
language skills can also perhaps be a helpful
thing to do just to embed that learning amongst
all of the staff team. Not just perhaps the people
that perhaps listen to this podcast or go on
the training, but to make sure it's applied universally
across everybody. You know, it could be a helpful
starting point. Yeah, that's a nice idea. We're
going to move on to talk a little bit about supporting
families as partners now, Nicky, if that's OK.
And I'd be keen to get your input on how we can
better support oracy development at home, especially
in communities where children may have less exposure
to rich language. and where parents and carers
as well may struggle themselves with oracy. So
in your opinion, what does meaningful support
look like for families and how can we empower
them to support their own children's oracy development?
And I'm thinking about that in terms of before
they actually reach their setting, so in those
first few kind of critical years of life, but
also, you know, as they are within their setting
as well, so that two, three, four -year -old
stage. Yeah, so I think, well, firstly, I think
you've raised an important point about the fact
that Parents and carers may struggle with oracy
too. So we need to be sensitive to these kind
of language differences within the home and avoid
any sense of blaming parents for not providing
the right environment for their child. So, for
example, we know that the language and literacy
environment that children grow up in, so, for
example, how much parents read to them or the
quality and quantity of language that parents
use when they talk to children is linked to children's
later language and literacy development. But
this association might be heavily influenced
by inherited factors. So in other words, if a
parent finds speaking, reading or learning difficult,
their child may inherit some of those same traits.
But these shared genetic traits also shape the
environment. So, for example, a parent who finds
reading hard may read less often at home, not
out of neglect, but because of just their own
experiences. So, yeah. Children's oracy development
is influenced by a complex mix of both what they
inherit and what they experience. And so that's
why we need to approach this work with empathy
and avoid placing kind of blame on families.
But of course, this doesn't mean that we can't
model good oracy practices and engage families
in children's learning. So I guess it starts
really with building relationships. So recognising
the strengths that families already bring. So
even if they don't use the same kinds of language
practices that we might see in school or nursery,
it's about... meeting families where they are
and not necessarily expecting formal educational
talk, but just valuing their everyday conversations.
So, for example, a parent who may struggle with
reading themselves might not feel confident to
sit and read a book with their child every night,
but they might feel more confident kind of singing
songs or nursery rhymes. And these can build
children's language development in many ways.
So building vocabulary, developing a sense of
rhythm and sound patterns. in whichever language
it is, and help with memory and sequencing. And
I guess we can also support families by making
oracy feel approachable and doable. So sharing
some of the ideas I talked about earlier, just
very simple things like pausing to let their
child finish sentences, asking kind of these
open -ended questions, or describing what they
see their child doing in play. So these are strategies
that don't require any additional resources or
really time. It's just a shift in how caregivers
are sort of interacting day to day. But again,
that can be something that's discussed in a sensitive
way or modelled by earliest practitioners. And,
you know, thinking about our own language when
we're talking with families. So we don't necessarily
want to be talking to them about developing narrative
skills because that's a little bit remote, you
know. So we might just talk about telling stories
about their day or telling, you know, telling
stories. So the more accessible the languages
that we use when we talk about children's development,
the more, I guess, families are likely to engage.
And I think I've mentioned it already, but sort
of modelling these language practices that we've
been talking about. So the way we talk with children
in front of their caregivers can be a kind of
subtle but maybe powerful way of modelling some
of these supportive language strategies that
we've been talking about. So it's kind of less
of a sort of, you know, do as I do. It's just
sort of showing how it can be done. And finally,
I guess really important is listening as well.
kind of creating that space for a two -way dialogue
between families and practitioners so not just
practitioners telling families what to do but
listening also to their experiences learning
from their knowledge of their child as you say
you know before the child reaches the earlier
setting that parent has been with that child
already for two years or whatever and so they
they know them better than anybody and trying
to work together to to find out you know what
works for that child what that child's interests
are that you can then use in order to sort of
promote oracy once they reach the setting. So
it sounds like quite a lot of the advice is really
the same advice that you would give to practitioners
so it's really just about those practitioners
sharing that information with parents in a kind
of sensitive and effective way really I guess
based on the parents you have in your setting
and I guess each practitioner will know that
yeah know know what approaches may work for them.
Yeah and also just as I mentioned you know the
parents will know the children as well so you
know it's kind of Working together with the practitioners
with the knowledge about what might be supportive
in terms of children's language development,
but also the parent knowing what's feasible and
what their child's interests are and, you know,
strengths and needs. It really highlights the
importance of good transitions, doesn't it? So
that transition from home to school and making
sure that, you know, that's done in the best
way that it possibly can be. And also, you know,
between different classes as the child grows
as well, those transition points and opportunities
to talk to parents are really valuable. Yeah,
absolutely. So thinking about what you've just
said, Nikki, about practitioners really doing
that really good transition and talking to those
families about what words they use at home, their
language and things like that. And do you have
any other thoughts on how settings can genuinely
celebrate that home language, the family talk,
the storytelling traditions that those families
might be using at home? Yeah, so I think as I
just touched on, having that kind of two way
dialogue is really important because I guess,
you know, you can bring in stories and traditions
from children's homes into the earlier setting.
And not only will that make children sort of
feel more, give them a stronger sense of identity
potentially, but also it helps children also
to learn about, you know, other children's backgrounds
and interests and these different kind of traditions
that we might see. I think, yeah, sort of capitalising
on this diversity in terms of language experiences,
storytelling traditions and all of those things
can actually and ways of speaking as well. We
talked a little bit about kind of maybe idioms
and things like that that you might want to bring
in. So, yeah, having that two way dialogue with
families and trying to embrace some of the home
language practices and bringing that into the
earlier setting so that all children can benefit
and learn from it, I think is important. We're
fast approaching the end of our conversation,
Nikki. So I just wanted to ask you, if you could
change one thing about how oracy is approached
in the early years, what would it be? Yeah, so
I think the first thing to say goes back to something
I mentioned earlier. I think a lot of what goes
on in early years education is already a really
excellent example of oracy in practice. Many
activities within earlier settings are built
around oral storytelling, book talk, rhymes,
questions, all of those things. And as I mentioned,
to some extent, oracy is already prioritised
more in the early years settings than it is in
schools. So I think possibly the most important
thing to think about is to sort of think about
oracy as a shared intentional practice across
the whole setting. So not just something that
happens during circle time or story time. We've
touched on this already. So it's about recognising
and taking advantage of opportunities throughout
the day to build on children's language. And
so this does require quite systematic planning
and making conscious decisions about how we can
model, scaffold and extend children's communication
in different situations. So it's making sure
that everybody has that knowledge and skills
in order to be able to do that within the setting.
So, for example, we could use snack time to ask
open ended questions about children's thoughts
and feelings around food. So, for example, why
do you like that banana? And also maybe to model
descriptive words like crunchy, sweet and ripe.
So it's kind of seizing all of these small opportunities
throughout the day just to embed those kind of
oracy skills in the activities that you're doing.
But also, as I say, I think it's something that
maybe needs to be a little bit systematic in
order to make sure that everybody. is on board
and knows what's happening um and thinking you
know quite carefully about what sort of language
you want children to be using across these different
activities so being aware of these different
sort of i talked about registers of language
so um languages different types of language that
you might use in different contexts um so as
i say a lot of these practices are already happening
but i think it's just about understanding why
they're important and making sure that everybody's
on the same page lovely thank you So Nikki, when
practitioners walk into their setting tomorrow,
what's the greatest thing they can do immediately
that's going to have a really big impact? Yeah,
so I think a really kind of impactful thing that
practitioners could do that really doesn't require
much in the way of, well, anything in the way
of resources or time is just to think about their
communication style when they're interacting
with children. Firstly, to slow down, both in
terms of allowing the child time and also introducing
pauses into your own speech to allow children
that processing time. Secondly, to really tune
in to what children are saying or trying to say.
And then thirdly, respond to them in a way that
builds on what they've said. So whether you're
kind of expanding on a child's comment or pausing
to let them finish their thought or just kind
of staying with their idea a bit longer, just
that act of being present. in conversation with
children could do so much to support their language
um you don't need new resources you just need
um attention and responsiveness so yeah i would
say it's kind of three things but slow down tune
in and respond thank you nikki i think that brings
us nicely to the end of our conversation today
um so i just wanted to say thank you so much
for joining us today nikki It's been really insightful
learning more about what oracy is, what oracy
looks like in the early years and how we can
all build and embed more oracy into our practice.
So thank you again for sharing all of your knowledge
and all of your experience with us too. I've
certainly learned a lot. I'm sure our practitioners
at home will have learned a lot too. So if you
are listening and you've enjoyed this conversation,
then please do share the episode with all of
your colleagues, because I think it's a really,
really helpful topic to look into. And yeah,
I really, really appreciate you joining us today.
So thank you. Thank you very much. It's been
a real pleasure talking to you both. Before we
let you go, we started a bit of a closing tradition
on our first podcast, which we'd like to continue
with, which is where we ask our guest speaker
to leave behind three questions for our Norfolk
Early Years practitioners. And these questions
are for our listeners at home to think about
between now and our follow -up face -to -face
communication hub meetings, which next term will
be starting from the 17th of June. So the first
question you won't be surprised to hear is around
storytelling. So my question is, what role does
storytelling, which includes books, retellings,
role play, play in your setting? So I've just
had a couple of sub questions to make that a
little bit more specific. So how could you strengthen
the link between stories and oracy in your practice?
And how does your storytelling, whether through
books, retelling or play, support emotional literacy
and theory of mind? And then the second one is
around what I sort of finished with talking about.
So in what ways do you consciously create space
for children to lead talk, not just respond to
adult prompts? And the follow up bit of that
is how might you shift more interactions from
adult led questioning to genuinely shared thinking?
Brilliant. And number three? Number three is
how can you support oracy for children who communicate
differently, whether due to language delay, EAL,
neurodivergence or shyness? And the sub bit of
that is how can you ensure multiple entry points
into talk? So ideas of different ways of getting
into oracy and make sure these children are equally
included in peer dialogue. Brilliant. That gives
us a huge amount of food for thought. They're
really excellent questions. Thank you for sharing
them with us today. I think we're going to have
a lot to think about following those. So brilliant.
I'm really looking forward to exploring those
more at the next sessions. So yeah, thank you
again, Nikki, for joining us. It's been great
having you on the episode today. Thank you, Nikki.
Thank you. We'd like to remind everyone that
as part of our new Communication Hub format,
this podcast will be followed up with a face
-to -face workshop -style session in your local
district. These workshops will provide you with
an opportunity to delve deeper into the topics
that we have covered today, think about the practical
application of embedding Oracy into your setting,
and network with like -minded professionals from
your local area. You will also have the opportunity
to talk to your early years advisor and improvement
development worker about any support you need.
Plus, you will have the opportunity to ask any
questions in person to our speech and language
therapists. These communication hub workshops
are open to all Norfolk early years practitioners,
teachers and professionals. For early years practitioners
and those working in schools, please book onto
the Communication Hub workshop via the portal.
And for everybody else, please email earlyyearschildcare
at norfolk .gov .uk to reserve your space.