WEBVTT 00:00:01.710 --> 00:00:03.930 Oracy is broader than this, so it's not just 00:00:03.930 --> 00:00:06.070 about the mechanics of language itself, but how 00:00:06.070 --> 00:00:09.050 we use language to organise our thoughts and 00:00:09.050 --> 00:00:11.490 talk about our ideas and build relationships. 00:00:11.890 --> 00:00:14.089 A phrase that you might hear quite a lot in relation 00:00:14.089 --> 00:00:16.530 to oracy is that it's both about learning to 00:00:16.530 --> 00:00:19.820 talk and learning through talk. If we think about 00:00:19.820 --> 00:00:21.960 the kind of language we use when we talk about 00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:24.800 thoughts and feelings, we have words like think, 00:00:25.100 --> 00:00:28.960 feel, know, believe. So being able to understand 00:00:28.960 --> 00:00:32.460 and use these words helps children not only to 00:00:32.460 --> 00:00:35.240 make sense of their own experiences, tell their 00:00:35.240 --> 00:00:38.100 own stories and regulate their emotions. but 00:00:38.100 --> 00:00:40.359 it also helps them to understand that others 00:00:40.359 --> 00:00:43.060 have their own thoughts and feelings. These language 00:00:43.060 --> 00:00:44.759 experiences don't just shape children's kind 00:00:44.759 --> 00:00:46.500 of day -to -day interactions, they're also linked 00:00:46.500 --> 00:00:48.679 to long -term outcomes. Having these skills in 00:00:48.679 --> 00:00:50.539 the early years is really important to sort of 00:00:50.539 --> 00:00:53.380 set children on a positive path for the rest 00:00:53.380 --> 00:00:55.439 of their lives. If we put it in the broader picture, 00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:57.439 I guess oracy skills are essential for children 00:00:57.439 --> 00:01:00.280 to grow into kind of active and informed members 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:05.719 of societies. Hi everyone and welcome to the 00:01:05.719 --> 00:01:08.540 Norfolk Early Years podcast Let's Talk series, 00:01:08.799 --> 00:01:11.459 a show that helps early years practitioners and 00:01:11.459 --> 00:01:13.739 professionals understand more about effectively 00:01:13.739 --> 00:01:16.879 supporting children's speech, language and communication 00:01:16.879 --> 00:01:20.560 development in the early years. I'm Jo Patterson 00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:23.549 and I'm Ashley Cater. And we are Early Years 00:01:23.549 --> 00:01:25.870 Communication and Language Development Officers 00:01:25.870 --> 00:01:28.769 within Norfolk County Council's Early Years team. 00:01:29.049 --> 00:01:31.549 And today, we're privileged to be joined by the 00:01:31.549 --> 00:01:34.670 very knowledgeable Dr Nicola Dawson, researcher 00:01:34.670 --> 00:01:37.730 at Oxford University, speech and language therapist 00:01:37.730 --> 00:01:40.530 at Morehouse School and College, and advocate 00:01:40.530 --> 00:01:44.269 for all things language literacy and oracy. In 00:01:44.269 --> 00:01:46.269 today's episode, we're going to be exploring 00:01:46.269 --> 00:01:49.489 what we mean by the term oracy and how we can 00:01:49.489 --> 00:01:52.879 build this into our early years practice. So 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:55.980 without further ado, let's talk building oracy 00:01:55.980 --> 00:02:01.599 in the early years. So welcome, Nikki. Could 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:04.239 you start by telling us a little bit about who 00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:07.159 you are, where you're based and how you ended 00:02:07.159 --> 00:02:10.599 up in your current role? Yes, thank you for the 00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:14.120 introduction. So I'm Nikki Dawson. I'm a researcher 00:02:14.120 --> 00:02:17.400 and speech and language therapist. So I currently 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:20.639 split my time across two settings. So four days 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:22.340 a week, I'm based at the University of Oxford, 00:02:22.439 --> 00:02:24.919 where I work as a research fellow. And then one 00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:27.379 day a week, I'm based at Morehouse School and 00:02:27.379 --> 00:02:30.979 College in Surrey. So this is a specialist educational 00:02:30.979 --> 00:02:33.419 provision for children and adolescents with developmental 00:02:33.419 --> 00:02:35.780 language disorder, which I might go into a little 00:02:35.780 --> 00:02:38.560 bit more later. And these children are aged between 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:42.360 seven and 19 years old. And so I'm based in the 00:02:42.360 --> 00:02:44.060 research and training institute that's attached 00:02:44.060 --> 00:02:47.120 to the school. And my role there is mainly to 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:48.900 conduct research into language interventions 00:02:48.900 --> 00:02:52.319 for DLD and also to share our findings with others 00:02:52.319 --> 00:02:54.840 in speech and language therapy practice and education. 00:02:55.240 --> 00:02:58.319 So in terms of how I ended up here, I actually 00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:00.439 started with a degree in English literature. 00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:03.340 So reading and books were always something I 00:03:03.340 --> 00:03:05.520 loved. And I was very happy to spend three years 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:08.120 reading and thinking about words and language. 00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:10.659 And then I became interested in language development 00:03:10.659 --> 00:03:13.180 during a couple of years as an au pair in Paris. 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:15.719 So I lived with a multilingual family and I saw 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:18.539 firsthand what language development across three 00:03:18.539 --> 00:03:20.520 different languages simultaneously looked like. 00:03:20.819 --> 00:03:24.099 And so following that, I decided to train as 00:03:24.099 --> 00:03:25.840 a speech and language therapist. So this was 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:29.759 around 15 years ago. And I was then based for 00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:31.780 around three years in mainstream school services. 00:03:32.430 --> 00:03:34.509 And then I moved into academia as a research 00:03:34.509 --> 00:03:36.689 assistant where I worked on a project looking 00:03:36.689 --> 00:03:39.409 at reading and vocabulary skills in early adolescence. 00:03:39.569 --> 00:03:41.810 And from there, I did my PhD, which was focused 00:03:41.810 --> 00:03:43.849 more on reading skills, again, in adolescent 00:03:43.849 --> 00:03:46.370 learners. And then finally, after completing 00:03:46.370 --> 00:03:48.490 my PhD, I had a really wonderful opportunity 00:03:48.490 --> 00:03:52.150 to start a role at Oxford as a researcher. So 00:03:52.150 --> 00:03:54.370 this was on a project. funded by the Nuffield 00:03:54.370 --> 00:03:56.030 Foundation, where we were looking at the language 00:03:56.030 --> 00:03:58.150 of children's books, particularly picture books 00:03:58.150 --> 00:04:01.229 aimed at children in the early years, and thinking 00:04:01.229 --> 00:04:03.430 about how hearing the language of these books 00:04:03.430 --> 00:04:06.289 regularly supports children's language development 00:04:06.289 --> 00:04:10.490 and oracy. Super, thank you. Very interesting 00:04:10.490 --> 00:04:13.569 backstory. So as we know, we're going to be talking 00:04:13.569 --> 00:04:15.449 a little bit about oracy today, which I know 00:04:15.449 --> 00:04:17.850 you're really passionate about. And I'm mindful 00:04:17.850 --> 00:04:21.589 that in the 2024 oracy report, we need to talk. 00:04:22.170 --> 00:04:24.930 It says, to date, there has been no universally 00:04:24.930 --> 00:04:28.050 agreed upon definition of oracy, nor a broad 00:04:28.050 --> 00:04:31.649 consensus on its role in education. So for the 00:04:31.649 --> 00:04:33.529 purposes of this podcast and the conversation 00:04:33.529 --> 00:04:36.029 that we're about to have, I was wondering if 00:04:36.029 --> 00:04:38.310 you could start by sharing your definition of 00:04:38.310 --> 00:04:41.149 oracy and what this looks like in education. 00:04:41.629 --> 00:04:45.230 OK, yeah, sure. So I think very broadly, oracy 00:04:45.230 --> 00:04:48.449 refers to how we express ourselves and how we 00:04:48.449 --> 00:04:51.660 develop understanding. and how we listen to and 00:04:51.660 --> 00:04:54.759 respond to others effectively through speaking, 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:58.439 listening and communication. So some examples 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:01.040 of oracy in everyday life might include things 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:04.139 like presenting in class or collaborating in 00:05:04.139 --> 00:05:06.800 group work, reciting a poem or being interviewed 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:09.620 for a job. So essentially what we're talking 00:05:09.620 --> 00:05:12.740 about firstly is children's ability to express 00:05:12.740 --> 00:05:15.699 what they mean confidently. So this doesn't necessarily 00:05:15.699 --> 00:05:18.879 mean just sounding polished, but it's about having 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:21.560 the skills to communicate their thoughts and 00:05:21.560 --> 00:05:25.899 intentions. And secondly, another aspect of RSC 00:05:25.899 --> 00:05:28.660 is using speaking and listening as tools for 00:05:28.660 --> 00:05:31.500 thinking and learning. So this is how we develop 00:05:31.500 --> 00:05:34.600 understanding through RSC. And then the third 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:37.420 key part is to be able to communicate effectively 00:05:37.420 --> 00:05:41.019 with others in different situations. So I think 00:05:41.019 --> 00:05:43.040 an important thing to note is that this definition 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:45.339 talks about speaking, listening and communication. 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:49.480 So this can also include nonverbal forms of communication, 00:05:49.579 --> 00:05:52.459 such as sign language or use of communication 00:05:52.459 --> 00:05:56.720 aids, for example. And so I think this raises 00:05:56.720 --> 00:05:59.180 quite an important distinction between oracy 00:05:59.180 --> 00:06:03.699 and oral language skills. So I see oral language 00:06:03.699 --> 00:06:06.019 skills as a kind of critical component of oracy, 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:09.540 but it's not the complete picture. So when we 00:06:09.540 --> 00:06:11.439 talk about oral language, we're kind of talking 00:06:11.439 --> 00:06:13.420 about the mechanics of language used in spoken 00:06:13.420 --> 00:06:15.920 communication. So, for example, speech sounds, 00:06:16.100 --> 00:06:20.160 vocabulary, grammar and so on. But oracy is broader 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:22.040 than this. So it's not just about the mechanics 00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:24.759 of language itself, but how we use language to 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:27.540 organise our thoughts and talk about our ideas 00:06:27.540 --> 00:06:31.160 and build relationships. So a phrase that you 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:33.459 might hear quite a lot in relation to oracy is 00:06:33.459 --> 00:06:36.800 that it's both about learning to talk and learning 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:39.579 through talk. So I think that's quite an important 00:06:39.579 --> 00:06:43.420 kind of pairing to bear in mind. And then in 00:06:43.420 --> 00:06:45.019 terms of how it's been introduced in education. 00:06:45.319 --> 00:06:48.560 So Voice 21, who are one of the kind of main 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:51.319 charities involved in promoting oracy, have kind 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:53.699 of put forward the oracy framework, which is 00:06:53.699 --> 00:06:56.660 a way that they suggest provides a kind of structured 00:06:56.660 --> 00:07:00.149 way to teach and evaluate oracy skills. So their 00:07:00.149 --> 00:07:02.709 kind of way of thinking about oracy is that it's 00:07:02.709 --> 00:07:05.790 equivalent to things like literacy and numeracy 00:07:05.790 --> 00:07:07.829 and it should be kind of taught systematically 00:07:07.829 --> 00:07:11.250 in the same way. And so there are four strands 00:07:11.250 --> 00:07:14.290 of the oracy framework. So first of all, physical. 00:07:14.449 --> 00:07:16.569 So this relates to things like speech sound development, 00:07:16.949 --> 00:07:20.470 how we pace our speech and things like body language 00:07:20.470 --> 00:07:23.110 and so on. Then there's the linguistic strand, 00:07:23.250 --> 00:07:25.009 which might be kind of more what we think about 00:07:25.009 --> 00:07:26.430 when we think about oral language skills, so 00:07:26.430 --> 00:07:29.980 vocabulary, grammar, syntax. Things like metaphor, 00:07:30.100 --> 00:07:32.839 maybe register, those kinds of things. Then there's 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:35.939 the cognitive strand. So this is kind of how 00:07:35.939 --> 00:07:38.939 we choose particular content to convey a meaning. 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:42.279 So it might be things like structuring our arguments, 00:07:42.439 --> 00:07:45.139 explaining our reasoning, thinking aloud and 00:07:45.139 --> 00:07:48.220 self -regulation, things like that. And then 00:07:48.220 --> 00:07:50.399 finally, there's the social and emotional strand. 00:07:50.500 --> 00:07:52.319 So this is about the building relationships, 00:07:52.459 --> 00:07:55.540 working with others, kind of confidence in speaking, 00:07:55.779 --> 00:07:58.829 turn taking and so on. So each of these kind 00:07:58.829 --> 00:08:01.509 of strands feeds into what we are talking about 00:08:01.509 --> 00:08:03.709 when we talk about oracy and also provides a 00:08:03.709 --> 00:08:06.089 little bit of structure for earlier settings 00:08:06.089 --> 00:08:08.389 and schools to think about how they can kind 00:08:08.389 --> 00:08:11.709 of embed oracy within the curriculum. Brilliant. 00:08:11.889 --> 00:08:15.350 Thanks, Nikki. So now we kind of know what oracy 00:08:15.350 --> 00:08:18.550 is. Can you explain a little bit about the role 00:08:18.550 --> 00:08:22.209 that oracy plays in our day to day life? So I'm 00:08:22.209 --> 00:08:26.769 thinking more along from a perspective of. building 00:08:26.769 --> 00:08:30.529 a well -functioning society, but also that personal 00:08:30.529 --> 00:08:35.049 standpoint as well. And why is having good oracy 00:08:35.049 --> 00:08:40.070 skills important on both of these levels? Okay, 00:08:40.169 --> 00:08:41.870 yeah, that's a really big question, actually. 00:08:42.090 --> 00:08:45.730 So let's break it down a little bit. And I'll 00:08:45.730 --> 00:08:48.309 start by talking about personal development. 00:08:48.350 --> 00:08:51.029 So we can think about this both in terms of children's 00:08:51.029 --> 00:08:53.210 learning and also their social and emotional 00:08:53.210 --> 00:08:56.620 development. So if we talk first about learning, 00:08:56.740 --> 00:08:59.860 so we know from research that having strong spoken 00:08:59.860 --> 00:09:02.620 language skills in the early years really sets 00:09:02.620 --> 00:09:05.159 the stage for later success in reading and writing. 00:09:05.220 --> 00:09:07.440 There's a very direct link between oral language 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:10.779 and learning to read and write. So, for example, 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:13.320 when we look at longitudinal studies that follow 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:17.120 the same children over a period of time, we find 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:19.279 that children who have very limited language 00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:22.500 skills at age five. are then around four times 00:09:22.500 --> 00:09:24.940 more likely to have poor adult literacy at age 00:09:24.940 --> 00:09:27.919 34 compared to those whose language skills are 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:31.179 kind of as expected on school entry and then 00:09:31.179 --> 00:09:33.480 of course as children get older and they move 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:36.600 through primary and secondary school these literacy 00:09:36.600 --> 00:09:39.039 skills become ever more important and this is 00:09:39.039 --> 00:09:41.740 kind of a shift in education from learning to 00:09:41.740 --> 00:09:44.240 read to reading to learn so if you haven't got 00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:47.940 those fundamental skills then children are going 00:09:47.940 --> 00:09:50.480 to struggle across the board. So those kind of 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:52.100 reading and writing skills are absolutely essential, 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:55.019 not just in subjects like English, but also maths, 00:09:55.100 --> 00:09:58.259 science and basically everything else. So by 00:09:58.259 --> 00:10:00.100 prioritising oracy in the early years, we're 00:10:00.100 --> 00:10:02.200 setting a really strong foundation for these 00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:04.700 later skills to develop. And then if we think 00:10:04.700 --> 00:10:07.299 about children's kind of social and emotional 00:10:07.299 --> 00:10:09.379 development, I've already kind of touched on 00:10:09.379 --> 00:10:11.379 how oracy skills are central to how children 00:10:11.379 --> 00:10:14.279 build relationships. So we can think about, you 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:16.440 know, we draw on language very... heavily when 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:18.299 we're resolving conflicts or we're asking for 00:10:18.299 --> 00:10:20.179 help. So children really need all of these skills 00:10:20.179 --> 00:10:21.840 in order to build those social relationships. 00:10:22.220 --> 00:10:24.440 And of course, that has a knock -on effect for 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:26.720 emotional well -being and kind of feeling of 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:31.200 social belonging. So for example, if we think 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:33.279 about the kind of language we use when we talk 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:36.340 about thoughts and feelings, we have words like 00:10:36.340 --> 00:10:40.440 think, feel, know, believe. So being able to 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:44.029 understand and use these words. helps children 00:10:44.029 --> 00:10:46.549 not only to make sense of their own experiences, 00:10:46.889 --> 00:10:50.389 tell their own stories and regulate their emotions, 00:10:50.690 --> 00:10:53.429 but it also helps them to understand that others 00:10:53.429 --> 00:10:57.470 have their own thoughts and feelings. And so 00:10:57.470 --> 00:10:59.789 this is at the heart of theory of mind, so the 00:10:59.789 --> 00:11:01.470 ability to understand that other people have 00:11:01.470 --> 00:11:03.210 thoughts, beliefs and emotions that might be 00:11:03.210 --> 00:11:07.750 different from your own. And we can see how this 00:11:07.750 --> 00:11:10.389 language can work in practice through, for example, 00:11:10.389 --> 00:11:12.610 listening to stories or engaging in pretend play. 00:11:13.179 --> 00:11:15.639 So in stories, children encounter characters 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:17.820 with different perspectives, different kind of 00:11:17.820 --> 00:11:20.419 motivations, who experience different emotions. 00:11:20.500 --> 00:11:22.820 And so language can kind of give children to 00:11:22.820 --> 00:11:26.100 the tools to reflect on these mental states and 00:11:26.100 --> 00:11:28.460 also hopefully then to be able to navigate their 00:11:28.460 --> 00:11:31.600 own social worlds with the kind of empathy and 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:35.370 understanding of others. Again, these language 00:11:35.370 --> 00:11:37.210 experiences don't just shape children's kind 00:11:37.210 --> 00:11:38.929 of day -to -day interactions, they're also linked 00:11:38.929 --> 00:11:41.190 to long -term outcomes too. So for example, when 00:11:41.190 --> 00:11:45.029 we look at other longitudinal research, we find 00:11:45.029 --> 00:11:47.090 that children with language that's below the 00:11:47.090 --> 00:11:49.529 expected level at school entry, so around five 00:11:49.529 --> 00:11:51.950 years old, they have a much higher risk of mental 00:11:51.950 --> 00:11:55.470 health problems around 30 years later, so almost 00:11:55.470 --> 00:11:57.909 three times higher, even after we take into account 00:11:57.909 --> 00:12:00.049 things like family background and early health 00:12:00.049 --> 00:12:02.830 that might also explain that relationship. And 00:12:02.830 --> 00:12:05.809 they're also twice as likely to experience long 00:12:05.809 --> 00:12:09.809 periods of unemployment. So, yeah, having these 00:12:09.809 --> 00:12:11.590 skills in the early years is really important 00:12:11.590 --> 00:12:15.490 to sort of set children on a positive path for 00:12:15.490 --> 00:12:17.490 the rest of their lives. But of course, there's 00:12:17.490 --> 00:12:19.190 a word of caution here because we can't say that 00:12:19.190 --> 00:12:21.350 early language problems directly cause these 00:12:21.350 --> 00:12:24.250 outcomes. There are always many complex interacting 00:12:24.250 --> 00:12:27.230 factors. But these associations do reinforce, 00:12:27.389 --> 00:12:29.309 I think, just how important it is to support 00:12:29.309 --> 00:12:31.679 children's communication from the start. not 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:33.340 just for school readiness, but also for their 00:12:33.340 --> 00:12:37.639 long term well -being and life chances. And then 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:39.340 I think the other thing you mentioned was about 00:12:39.340 --> 00:12:42.620 kind of society, which is, again, is a big question. 00:12:42.740 --> 00:12:44.919 So, you know, if we put it in the broader picture, 00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:46.919 I guess oracy skills are essential for children 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:49.740 to grow into kind of active and informed members 00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:53.440 of society. So we live in a very what you could 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:55.759 describe as an information based society. So 00:12:55.759 --> 00:12:58.039 information and knowledge are kind of at the 00:12:58.039 --> 00:13:01.480 heart of everything about kind of. economic lives 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:03.840 our social and cultural lives as well so we're 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:07.220 constantly sharing um receiving information via 00:13:07.220 --> 00:13:10.559 texts um social media and emails and so on and 00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:13.559 we're surrounded by kind of 24 -hour news um 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:17.000 people's opinions and blogs and and so on um 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:19.620 and also when you talk to um the summaries that 00:13:19.620 --> 00:13:22.019 showing that employers are really kind of prioritizing 00:13:22.019 --> 00:13:25.580 uh kind of oracy and collaboration within the 00:13:25.580 --> 00:13:27.419 workplace so all of this means that being able 00:13:27.419 --> 00:13:30.240 to kind of critically evaluate what you hear 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:32.700 and understand people's different viewpoints 00:13:32.700 --> 00:13:34.539 is really important just for participating in 00:13:34.539 --> 00:13:37.059 society. And it also, of course, gives people 00:13:37.059 --> 00:13:38.960 a voice to speak up for things that are important 00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:42.220 to them. So taking part in campaigns for change 00:13:42.220 --> 00:13:44.139 or writing to an MP, all of that draws on your 00:13:44.139 --> 00:13:47.299 ability to frame language in a way that's persuasive 00:13:47.299 --> 00:13:51.399 and argumentative. So I guess by supporting these 00:13:51.399 --> 00:13:53.080 skills early on, we're providing children then 00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:55.120 with the tools they need to navigate society 00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:59.590 in the kind of modern world. And so there seems 00:13:59.590 --> 00:14:01.950 to be a bit of a growing spotlight on Oracy at 00:14:01.950 --> 00:14:04.570 the moment, Nikki. And I personally feel that 00:14:04.570 --> 00:14:06.690 I've heard more about Oracy in the last two or 00:14:06.690 --> 00:14:08.990 three years in my career than I have, you know, 00:14:08.990 --> 00:14:11.809 for the previous 10 potentially. It seems to 00:14:11.809 --> 00:14:14.990 be a bit of a buzzword at the moment, not necessarily 00:14:14.990 --> 00:14:17.429 just in early years, but I think across across 00:14:17.429 --> 00:14:20.169 the board in education. And I know you mentioned 00:14:20.169 --> 00:14:22.669 earlier about Voice 21 and the role that that 00:14:22.669 --> 00:14:27.529 charity is playing in spreading awareness of 00:14:27.529 --> 00:14:29.940 Oracy. But what I wanted to know is who else 00:14:29.940 --> 00:14:32.779 is talking about Oracy and what is being said 00:14:32.779 --> 00:14:36.399 and why is that so important at the moment? Yeah, 00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:39.960 so Voice 21, obviously one of the kind of leading 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:43.679 organisations in promoting Oracy. So they're 00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:46.220 an education charity founded around 10 years 00:14:46.220 --> 00:14:48.340 ago, I think, as part of a collaboration between 00:14:48.340 --> 00:14:51.379 Cambridge University and a school in East London, 00:14:51.419 --> 00:14:53.620 which I think that work was funded by the Education 00:14:53.620 --> 00:14:57.250 Endowment Foundation. And so, yeah, their kind 00:14:57.250 --> 00:15:00.529 of purpose and aim is to support schools in embedding 00:15:00.529 --> 00:15:03.289 oracy into their curriculums. But they also campaign 00:15:03.289 --> 00:15:05.830 for oracy to have greater recognition more broadly 00:15:05.830 --> 00:15:08.649 within the education system. And so as part of 00:15:08.649 --> 00:15:11.309 this, they set up the Oracy Education Commission, 00:15:11.389 --> 00:15:14.549 which produced a report last year called We Need 00:15:14.549 --> 00:15:17.090 to Talk. I know you're familiar with that. So 00:15:17.090 --> 00:15:19.149 one of the things that the report argues for 00:15:19.149 --> 00:15:21.350 is this more kind of explicit recognition and 00:15:21.350 --> 00:15:23.980 teaching of oracy. And for it to be given this 00:15:23.980 --> 00:15:26.000 kind of equal status with things like literacy 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:30.620 and numeracy. But I think, as you say, it's become 00:15:30.620 --> 00:15:32.519 a bit of a buzzword, really. And I think more 00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:34.059 broadly, there's a growing interest from across 00:15:34.059 --> 00:15:36.639 education and even extending, as I say, to employers 00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:40.240 and policymakers. So, for example, Keir Starmer 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:42.919 made a commitment to making RSC a priority at 00:15:42.919 --> 00:15:46.460 all stages of education. And I think it's going 00:15:46.460 --> 00:15:48.580 to feature in the upcoming curriculum and assessment 00:15:48.580 --> 00:15:52.120 review. It should be published this year. So 00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:56.120 in terms of timing, I think the COVID -19 pandemic 00:15:56.120 --> 00:15:59.820 and kind of lockdowns had a lot to do with it 00:15:59.820 --> 00:16:01.919 and played a big part. So this meant that obviously 00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:04.080 children missed out on education and potentially 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:07.019 also missed out on kind of rich face -to -face 00:16:07.019 --> 00:16:10.220 interactions during that very critical period 00:16:10.220 --> 00:16:11.940 of early development, particularly for children 00:16:11.940 --> 00:16:14.360 who were in the early years of the time. And 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:18.960 so this had the effect of kind of widening existing 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:21.639 social inequalities. So, for example. If you 00:16:21.639 --> 00:16:24.519 take away these universal educational experiences, 00:16:24.779 --> 00:16:27.379 then children's learning is much more dependent 00:16:27.379 --> 00:16:30.820 on the resources and language -rich interactions 00:16:30.820 --> 00:16:33.159 that are available at home. And of course, this 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:35.100 can vary greatly between families for whatever 00:16:35.100 --> 00:16:38.240 reason. And another reason why we might see a 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:40.740 kind of growing interest in ROC now is that we 00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:43.419 live, as I say, in a society that's seen very 00:16:43.419 --> 00:16:45.980 rapid technological changes in recent years. 00:16:46.019 --> 00:16:50.139 So with the increasing use of AI, It feels like 00:16:50.139 --> 00:16:53.240 humans, you know, very human specific skills 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:57.860 like communication, empathy, persuasion, critical 00:16:57.860 --> 00:17:00.720 discussion. These kinds of things that AI can't 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:03.340 so easily replicate might become more and more 00:17:03.340 --> 00:17:07.579 valuable to employers. But I think there's also 00:17:07.579 --> 00:17:09.720 here maybe a note of caution around what oracy 00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:14.019 can and can't do. So, for example, oracy is sometimes 00:17:14.019 --> 00:17:16.380 being framed as a path to greater social equality. 00:17:17.259 --> 00:17:19.940 it does clearly underpin so much of learning 00:17:19.940 --> 00:17:22.539 and personal and social development that might 00:17:22.539 --> 00:17:24.880 open up opportunities for children that they 00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:27.799 may not otherwise have. Some people have argued 00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:30.539 that this framing can sometimes overlook deeper 00:17:30.539 --> 00:17:33.279 structural issues relating to inequalities, such 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:36.259 as how certain ways of speaking are privileged 00:17:36.259 --> 00:17:39.319 over others. So I think, yes, there's a lot of 00:17:39.319 --> 00:17:42.140 excitement about the idea of oracy and a lot 00:17:42.140 --> 00:17:44.559 of drive to really embed this across education. 00:17:45.289 --> 00:17:46.630 But at the same time, there are other voices 00:17:46.630 --> 00:17:49.230 just kind of sounding a note of caution about 00:17:49.230 --> 00:17:52.150 sort of what we, you know, it being a kind of 00:17:52.150 --> 00:17:54.869 fix all for everything, I suppose. Excellent. 00:17:55.309 --> 00:17:58.650 So we're now going to shift that focus to practice 00:17:58.650 --> 00:18:01.809 and pedagogy. And I think it's really important 00:18:01.809 --> 00:18:04.750 to recognise that like most things in the early 00:18:04.750 --> 00:18:08.630 years, RSC education isn't about buying into 00:18:08.630 --> 00:18:12.089 a rigid intervention programme that pulls children 00:18:12.089 --> 00:18:14.809 out of their learning environment. and away from 00:18:14.809 --> 00:18:17.630 their peers, but instead it's about us finding 00:18:17.630 --> 00:18:21.509 ways to weave in effective practices into our 00:18:21.509 --> 00:18:24.450 continuous provision and offer children lots 00:18:24.450 --> 00:18:27.250 of opportunities for talk and child -led play 00:18:27.250 --> 00:18:31.029 in ways that work for that setting. So with that 00:18:31.029 --> 00:18:33.509 in mind, we thought it would be really helpful 00:18:33.509 --> 00:18:37.589 to explore some of the ideas and strategies that 00:18:37.589 --> 00:18:40.109 practitioners can use to enhance their practice. 00:18:40.390 --> 00:18:43.359 We're going to look at the environment. And so 00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:48.059 can you think about how practitioners can create 00:18:48.059 --> 00:18:51.019 a learning environment that effectively supports 00:18:51.019 --> 00:18:55.640 and nurtures children's oracy development? So 00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:58.480 the learning environment really needs to offer 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:01.660 a kind of wide range of opportunities for language 00:19:01.660 --> 00:19:04.859 rich activity across the day. So ideally, this 00:19:04.859 --> 00:19:08.400 would include spaces for activities such as role 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:11.279 play, storytelling, small group interactions. 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:14.339 kind of activities where children can practice 00:19:14.339 --> 00:19:17.720 using their language in new and imaginative ways. 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:20.839 And we can think quite carefully about how to 00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:23.279 design these spaces in ways that are likely to 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:25.700 promote engagement and learning. So, for example, 00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:29.299 you could rotate setups for play settings. So, 00:19:29.339 --> 00:19:31.980 for example, rotating between a shop, a home, 00:19:32.059 --> 00:19:34.799 a hospital, because this would give children 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:38.539 opportunities to use and hear a broader range 00:19:38.539 --> 00:19:41.660 of vocabulary. So the words and phrases that 00:19:41.660 --> 00:19:44.000 we typically use in shops are quite different 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:46.619 from what we might use in hospitals. So providing 00:19:46.619 --> 00:19:48.920 this kind of wide range of possible play scenarios 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:51.339 can then give children opportunities to experiment 00:19:51.339 --> 00:19:55.519 with more diverse language and also potentially 00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:58.779 language that they might not come across in their 00:19:58.779 --> 00:20:01.970 kind of day -to -day lives. We can also think 00:20:01.970 --> 00:20:04.910 about the props that we are kind of including 00:20:04.910 --> 00:20:07.670 in the setting. So using real world props like 00:20:07.670 --> 00:20:11.250 telephones or shopping baskets, puppets and costumes 00:20:11.250 --> 00:20:14.190 and so on, can encourage children to sort of 00:20:14.190 --> 00:20:16.650 take on different roles and to build narratives. 00:20:17.289 --> 00:20:19.869 And then this kind of imaginative play can often 00:20:19.869 --> 00:20:22.789 lead to extended talk because children are kind 00:20:22.789 --> 00:20:24.970 of negotiating these roles and trying to solve 00:20:24.970 --> 00:20:29.559 problems between themselves. Another area that 00:20:29.559 --> 00:20:32.319 I'm very passionate about is the availability 00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:35.480 of books and stories. So these could include 00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:37.779 kind of traditional stories from different cultures 00:20:37.779 --> 00:20:40.039 and also maybe bilingual books. If you have a 00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:42.259 high proportion of children speaking English 00:20:42.259 --> 00:20:45.440 as an additional language. Nice that these books 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:47.859 can cover a variety of genres. So fiction, but 00:20:47.859 --> 00:20:49.920 also potentially nonfiction, if that's more engaging 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:52.660 for certain children. And maybe books that reflect 00:20:52.660 --> 00:20:54.819 children's own experiences. So there are lots 00:20:54.819 --> 00:20:58.309 of books out there that's sort of written. with 00:20:58.309 --> 00:21:02.109 kind of experiences such as loss or bereavement 00:21:02.109 --> 00:21:04.430 in mind. And so children who might be going through 00:21:04.430 --> 00:21:06.750 this can then find a book that sort of speaks 00:21:06.750 --> 00:21:11.470 to them in that situation. And finally, I know 00:21:11.470 --> 00:21:13.529 for a nice reason, earlier settings are very 00:21:13.529 --> 00:21:16.690 noisy usually and usually space is an issue. 00:21:16.750 --> 00:21:18.849 But if you can kind of create a space that's 00:21:18.849 --> 00:21:20.750 a little bit more quiet, a little bit less distracting, 00:21:20.910 --> 00:21:24.400 those can be quite nice for children who... maybe 00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:26.240 find it a little bit overwhelming or maybe if 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:27.980 you want to work one -to -one or have more group 00:21:27.980 --> 00:21:30.259 conversations. And so this space can be a bit 00:21:30.259 --> 00:21:32.859 more kind of calm and promote more focused engagement. 00:21:34.059 --> 00:21:36.779 And for some children that might kind of boost 00:21:36.779 --> 00:21:39.759 their confidence in kind of talking up and using 00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:43.380 their voice. So Nikki, you touched on the importance 00:21:43.380 --> 00:21:45.839 of books just then when you were talking about 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:49.359 providing rich play experiences. Why is storytelling 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:52.980 so important to building children's oracy? Yeah. 00:21:54.080 --> 00:21:57.180 So books and storytelling can really be an excellent 00:21:57.180 --> 00:21:59.059 way to provide these kind of rich language experiences. 00:21:59.500 --> 00:22:02.440 Obviously, it provides children with the opportunity 00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:04.799 to kind of listen to and structure their own 00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:07.779 narratives. But also we've done some work showing 00:22:07.779 --> 00:22:10.859 that even though children can't yet read independently 00:22:10.859 --> 00:22:13.240 necessarily in the early years, the language 00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:16.019 of children's books is much more complex and 00:22:16.019 --> 00:22:18.500 richer than the language that they get from everyday 00:22:18.500 --> 00:22:21.720 conversation. So actually, by reading books with 00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:24.099 children or even telling stories that uses this 00:22:24.099 --> 00:22:25.839 kind of book language, I'm talking about book 00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:27.819 language as being a sort of different type of 00:22:27.819 --> 00:22:29.559 language that we use in those kinds of contexts, 00:22:29.579 --> 00:22:31.599 but not necessarily just the words on the page. 00:22:32.579 --> 00:22:36.079 So it kind of gives children a way into books 00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:38.240 when they can't actually access them themselves 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:40.759 because they're not yet reading. So what we found 00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:42.960 in our own research was that when we look at 00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:44.720 children's picture books, so these are books 00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:47.339 aimed at really young children, they already 00:22:47.339 --> 00:22:50.779 contain a wider range of words. Going back to 00:22:50.779 --> 00:22:53.140 the idea that children can experience language 00:22:53.140 --> 00:22:55.099 that's related to scenarios that they might not 00:22:55.099 --> 00:22:57.059 experience firsthand in everyday life. So if 00:22:57.059 --> 00:22:58.680 we think about when we're talking to children 00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:00.720 during daily routines, often because it's the 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:02.480 same routine every day, we're using the same 00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:04.900 language. But if you're reading children picture 00:23:04.900 --> 00:23:06.940 books that relate to lots of different scenarios, 00:23:07.259 --> 00:23:09.960 fantasy and so on, then the kind of language 00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:11.400 that's going to be in those books is going to 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:13.160 be much more diverse than what they would get 00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:15.819 from conversation. And we also found that the 00:23:15.819 --> 00:23:18.279 words in books tend to be much more sophisticated. 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:20.460 So they're the kind of words that children would 00:23:20.460 --> 00:23:23.519 tend to acquire later on in development. So by 00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:25.539 giving children exposure to these words early 00:23:25.539 --> 00:23:27.819 on in their development, we're kind of laying 00:23:27.819 --> 00:23:29.920 the foundations for that later, more literate 00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:32.920 language knowledge. Another thing we found that 00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:35.559 was that these picture books contain more emotion 00:23:35.559 --> 00:23:37.660 words. And so this is really important when we're 00:23:37.660 --> 00:23:39.900 thinking about the development of children's 00:23:39.900 --> 00:23:42.240 emotion vocabulary. and their ability to talk 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:44.059 about their feelings. And as I mentioned earlier, 00:23:44.099 --> 00:23:46.420 to understand the thoughts and feelings of others. 00:23:47.019 --> 00:23:48.859 And as I say, it's not just about the content 00:23:48.859 --> 00:23:50.700 of the books. They also can provide an excellent 00:23:50.700 --> 00:23:53.519 springboard for kind of role play and practicing 00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:56.940 narrative skills. So you can link books to play 00:23:56.940 --> 00:23:58.779 in order to extend those language opportunities. 00:23:59.019 --> 00:24:00.960 So for example, after reading a story about going 00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:03.339 to the doctor, you might set up a role play area 00:24:03.339 --> 00:24:05.559 that has sort of medical props. And then that 00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:07.859 provides opportunities for children to try out 00:24:07.859 --> 00:24:09.940 this new vocabulary that they'd encountered in 00:24:09.940 --> 00:24:13.319 the story. in a kind of meaningful and imaginative 00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:16.440 way. Yeah I think it really highlights how important 00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:18.680 it is to have books freely available all day 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:21.420 during your setting not just at story time necessarily 00:24:21.420 --> 00:24:24.180 but just available within the provision for children 00:24:24.180 --> 00:24:26.920 to access as and when they want to. Yeah. Thank 00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:29.500 you that was that was really interesting. I was 00:24:29.500 --> 00:24:31.220 also just going to do a little plug here for 00:24:31.220 --> 00:24:34.019 the Norfolk Library Service as well. We're really 00:24:34.019 --> 00:24:36.099 privileged to have a fantastic library service 00:24:36.099 --> 00:24:38.380 here in Norfolk. And I'm sure we're going to 00:24:38.380 --> 00:24:40.640 talk a little bit about parents and carers later 00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:43.119 and the role that they play in building children's 00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:46.240 oracy. But even for our settings, I know that 00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:48.619 the Norfolk Library Service is always very willing 00:24:48.619 --> 00:24:50.900 to work with settings to find books that they 00:24:50.900 --> 00:24:53.640 may want to introduce into their settings. So 00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:56.319 that's just a reminder, I guess, for our practitioners 00:24:56.319 --> 00:24:58.480 to make use of that service because it's extremely 00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:07.460 valuable. Thank you Nikki for sharing that information 00:25:07.460 --> 00:25:09.880 on practice and pedagogy. We're now going to 00:25:09.880 --> 00:25:11.720 move on to talk a little bit about the role of 00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:15.839 the adult and interactions. I'm trying to put 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:17.900 myself in the shoes of an early years practitioner 00:25:17.900 --> 00:25:21.259 who's standing in their setting or in their reception 00:25:21.259 --> 00:25:23.720 classroom and as you touched on earlier it can 00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:26.319 be quite a busy place, sometimes quite a noisy 00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:28.680 place as well and I'm sure there'll be lots of 00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:30.640 play and interactions that are just happening 00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:34.430 naturally around them. So my question is, what 00:25:34.430 --> 00:25:37.529 can practitioners do to turn those everyday moments 00:25:37.529 --> 00:25:40.589 and interactions into opportunities for really 00:25:40.589 --> 00:25:43.589 meaningful talk that's going to enhance their 00:25:43.589 --> 00:25:47.109 oracy skills? Yeah, I think this is really key. 00:25:47.769 --> 00:25:50.650 So as we've kind of touched on, I think oracy 00:25:50.650 --> 00:25:53.289 development doesn't require a special session. 00:25:53.769 --> 00:25:55.849 It's something that can happen throughout the 00:25:55.849 --> 00:25:58.390 day, kind of in the flow of everyday interactions. 00:26:00.220 --> 00:26:02.380 You know, but particularly when the adults are 00:26:02.380 --> 00:26:04.400 kind of consciously thinking about how they can 00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:07.019 promote these kind of rich language skills for 00:26:07.019 --> 00:26:09.619 children. So a few things that practitioners 00:26:09.619 --> 00:26:11.940 could sort of think about kind of very specific 00:26:11.940 --> 00:26:14.920 things is firstly, think about how you're asking 00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:18.059 questions. So really, we want to be trying to 00:26:18.059 --> 00:26:20.779 ask open ended questions that gives children 00:26:20.779 --> 00:26:24.480 the kind of opportunity to expand on their responses. 00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:27.960 So using questions like how, why. What do you 00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:30.359 think? Why do you think? This is going to help 00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:32.579 to kind of extend children's thinking and also 00:26:32.579 --> 00:26:35.759 invite them to use richer language in their responses. 00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:39.059 So, for example, if you say, why do you think 00:26:39.059 --> 00:26:40.819 the caterpillar ate so much? This is going to 00:26:40.819 --> 00:26:44.220 encourage kind of reasoning and explanation rather 00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:46.819 than just a yes or no answer, which is what we 00:26:46.819 --> 00:26:48.940 get maybe if we ask slightly more closed questions. 00:26:49.819 --> 00:26:53.259 Another thing we can do is try to encourage multi 00:26:53.259 --> 00:26:56.740 -turn conversations. So by that, I mean exchanges 00:26:56.740 --> 00:26:58.980 between the adult and the child that goes beyond 00:26:58.980 --> 00:27:02.859 just one question and answer. So to do this, 00:27:02.900 --> 00:27:06.640 we can just allow some time. So we're in conversation 00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:09.119 with a child, but we pause and we wait for their 00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:11.460 response. And just by pausing, we can indicate 00:27:11.460 --> 00:27:13.740 that we are kind of anticipating that the child 00:27:13.740 --> 00:27:16.200 might say something back. So this is going to 00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:18.440 support kind of contingent language use. So where 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:21.180 the adult's responding to the child's focus and 00:27:21.180 --> 00:27:23.630 also potentially joint attention as well. And 00:27:23.630 --> 00:27:25.630 it also, of course, shows a genuine interest 00:27:25.630 --> 00:27:29.190 in what children are saying. Another key thing 00:27:29.190 --> 00:27:32.289 is obviously children in earlier settings are, 00:27:32.349 --> 00:27:33.710 you know, the language skills are very much still 00:27:33.710 --> 00:27:36.690 developing. So children are going to be using 00:27:36.690 --> 00:27:40.009 slightly simpler sentence structures than they 00:27:40.009 --> 00:27:42.829 would if they were older. But we can actually 00:27:42.829 --> 00:27:45.349 take what they've said and build on it. So we're 00:27:45.349 --> 00:27:48.109 modelling a slightly more complex version of 00:27:48.109 --> 00:27:51.309 what they've initially said. So, for example, 00:27:51.309 --> 00:27:54.240 if a child says he's mad. we could say something 00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:56.519 like, yes, he looks frustrated because he lost 00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:58.900 his toy. So you can see how we're not sort of 00:27:58.900 --> 00:28:01.240 asking them to produce that more complex sentence 00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:03.220 and we're not sort of telling them they're wrong 00:28:03.220 --> 00:28:05.220 in any way, but we're just agreeing with them, 00:28:05.259 --> 00:28:07.779 but also adding something and modelling that 00:28:07.779 --> 00:28:10.240 more complex sentence structure with kind of 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:13.440 reasoning embedded in there. Another thing we 00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:15.319 can do is just comment on what children are doing. 00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:18.299 So if we're kind of narrating what they're doing 00:28:18.299 --> 00:28:21.480 currently in that moment, especially during routines 00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:24.670 or play, then... This is going to sort of help 00:28:24.670 --> 00:28:26.970 them to sort of provide them with a language 00:28:26.970 --> 00:28:30.410 model that they might then be able to use themselves 00:28:30.410 --> 00:28:35.029 at a later point. And I think what's quite important 00:28:35.029 --> 00:28:37.369 to say is that we're modelling this language 00:28:37.369 --> 00:28:39.490 without actually correcting them. So we're not 00:28:39.490 --> 00:28:41.769 putting children on the spot or correcting any 00:28:41.769 --> 00:28:44.529 grammatical errors directly. But instead, we're 00:28:44.529 --> 00:28:47.349 just modelling the kind of more advanced form 00:28:47.349 --> 00:28:49.089 of language naturally within the conversation. 00:28:50.139 --> 00:28:52.619 And then finally, going back to what I was saying 00:28:52.619 --> 00:28:55.859 about shared book reading. And so I was talking 00:28:55.859 --> 00:28:57.700 about sort of the language of the books themselves. 00:28:57.740 --> 00:29:00.180 But of course, book reading is also an opportunity 00:29:00.180 --> 00:29:05.039 to use kind of dialogic book talk. So we could 00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:07.440 ask both literal questions, but also inferential 00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:09.900 questions, ask children to make predictions about 00:29:09.900 --> 00:29:12.359 what they think is going to happen next. We can 00:29:12.359 --> 00:29:14.900 read a page, leave a pause and see if children 00:29:14.900 --> 00:29:16.579 can come up with what they think the next word 00:29:16.579 --> 00:29:19.519 might be. and just allow space for children to 00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:23.000 express what they think. So things like, you 00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:24.420 know, why do you think the rabbit is hiding? 00:29:24.539 --> 00:29:26.220 This is going to allow them the opportunity to 00:29:26.220 --> 00:29:29.240 promote reasoning and possibly empathy as well. 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:32.700 Super, thank you. You mentioned it a little bit 00:29:32.700 --> 00:29:34.759 there in your answer, but for children that feel 00:29:34.759 --> 00:29:36.660 self -conscious with their speech, it might be 00:29:36.660 --> 00:29:38.339 that they have a speech and language need or 00:29:38.339 --> 00:29:40.079 perhaps they're just a little bit less confident 00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:43.819 than their peers. How do we go about building 00:29:43.819 --> 00:29:47.349 that oracy? when they may feel quite self -conscious? 00:29:47.930 --> 00:29:50.450 Yeah so many of the strategies as you say I just 00:29:50.450 --> 00:29:53.349 mentioned will help to make sure that our kind 00:29:53.349 --> 00:29:55.289 of interactions with children are sensitive and 00:29:55.289 --> 00:29:58.569 responsive. So if we follow the child's lead 00:29:58.569 --> 00:30:01.150 and we build on the contributions that they've 00:30:01.150 --> 00:30:02.769 made then we're less likely to make them feel 00:30:02.769 --> 00:30:06.410 judged or exposed compared to if we sort of put 00:30:06.410 --> 00:30:08.450 them on the spot or correct their errors. So 00:30:08.450 --> 00:30:11.069 I think the key thing here is to focus on what 00:30:11.069 --> 00:30:15.069 they're saying not how they're saying it. If 00:30:15.069 --> 00:30:17.670 a child is shy about speaking, for example, we 00:30:17.670 --> 00:30:20.309 can still model rich language. So, for example, 00:30:20.410 --> 00:30:23.450 if we're talking, you know, about something with 00:30:23.450 --> 00:30:25.650 the child in the immediate environment, we can 00:30:25.650 --> 00:30:27.970 model sort of thinking language or metacognitive 00:30:27.970 --> 00:30:31.730 language such as I wonder if or I think. So what 00:30:31.730 --> 00:30:33.589 we're doing there is modelling the process of 00:30:33.589 --> 00:30:36.730 thinking, showing children how to think and reason 00:30:36.730 --> 00:30:39.130 and reflect. But we're not directly putting them 00:30:39.130 --> 00:30:42.069 on the spot. And of course, this more generally 00:30:42.069 --> 00:30:45.259 will promote. a kind of a culture where this 00:30:45.259 --> 00:30:47.859 sort of wondering and questioning and not knowing 00:30:47.859 --> 00:30:49.680 are just part of learning. And that's what we 00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:51.460 want children to understand because we want them 00:30:51.460 --> 00:30:54.599 to embrace that kind of language in their own 00:30:54.599 --> 00:30:58.759 kind of oracy skills. And as I said, we can use 00:30:58.759 --> 00:31:02.339 comments rather than testing questions. So testing 00:31:02.339 --> 00:31:03.900 questions are things that we already know the 00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:06.200 answer to. So if we ask, for example, what colour 00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:08.470 is that or what's this called? Children know 00:31:08.470 --> 00:31:10.369 that we already know the answer to that, so then 00:31:10.369 --> 00:31:12.230 that makes them feel as though they're being 00:31:12.230 --> 00:31:14.849 tested. And it might make them feel under pressure. 00:31:15.029 --> 00:31:17.470 But if we comment, then this puts less pressure 00:31:17.470 --> 00:31:19.549 on children because they can choose how they 00:31:19.549 --> 00:31:21.990 want to answer. So if we say, for example, wow, 00:31:22.089 --> 00:31:24.509 I love this purple car, the child might then 00:31:24.509 --> 00:31:26.089 take that as an invitation to tell you about 00:31:26.089 --> 00:31:28.430 their favourite colour or their car or something 00:31:28.430 --> 00:31:30.829 else completely. And then I guess another way 00:31:30.829 --> 00:31:32.750 we can reduce pressure on individual children 00:31:32.750 --> 00:31:36.250 is just to embrace oracy as a whole. class or 00:31:36.250 --> 00:31:38.049 whole setting thing it's something that everybody 00:31:38.049 --> 00:31:40.950 does not something that particular children are 00:31:40.950 --> 00:31:42.769 singled out for and there's no kind of right 00:31:42.769 --> 00:31:46.829 or wrong yeah and I suppose maybe small group 00:31:46.829 --> 00:31:48.609 work might be useful here as well particularly 00:31:48.609 --> 00:31:50.430 if that group is kind of carefully selected so 00:31:50.430 --> 00:31:52.410 children might be more comfortable kind of interacting 00:31:52.410 --> 00:31:55.230 with with some peers than others and it's also 00:31:55.230 --> 00:31:57.049 then easier for practitioners to tailor their 00:31:57.049 --> 00:31:59.509 own language support to a child's developmental 00:31:59.509 --> 00:32:02.309 level and then I suppose also thinking about 00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:04.619 feedback and praise so we're praising kind of 00:32:04.619 --> 00:32:07.019 effort and ideas not kind of a pronunciation 00:32:07.019 --> 00:32:10.119 or grammar um so it kind of reinforces the message 00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:12.539 that what matters is communicating thinking together 00:32:12.539 --> 00:32:15.740 not necessarily getting it right so we just wanted 00:32:15.740 --> 00:32:18.220 to touch a little bit on um send if that's okay 00:32:18.220 --> 00:32:21.700 nikki um how can oracy teaching in the early 00:32:21.700 --> 00:32:24.339 years be adapted to effectively support children 00:32:24.339 --> 00:32:26.740 with send and ensure that their ways of communicating 00:32:26.740 --> 00:32:29.910 are not overlooked Yeah, this is a really important 00:32:29.910 --> 00:32:32.569 question. So I guess the first thing to acknowledge 00:32:32.569 --> 00:32:36.210 is that oracy shouldn't mean valuing just one 00:32:36.210 --> 00:32:38.970 type of talk. And hopefully that's come across 00:32:38.970 --> 00:32:41.329 already. So we need to be a little bit mindful 00:32:41.329 --> 00:32:45.029 of this value that we're assigning to oracy skills, 00:32:45.069 --> 00:32:46.809 because I guess there's a potential for bias 00:32:46.809 --> 00:32:51.009 towards more extrovert or verbal children. And 00:32:51.009 --> 00:32:53.910 so if we focus too narrowly on just confident, 00:32:53.970 --> 00:32:56.859 fluent speech. we risk overlooking children with 00:32:56.859 --> 00:33:00.319 SEND who may communicate differently. So given 00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:04.259 the kind of central role of oral language skills 00:33:04.259 --> 00:33:07.099 in oracy, children with language difficulties 00:33:07.099 --> 00:33:10.119 may be particularly in need of adaptive approaches 00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:13.819 or increased adult support and also more time 00:33:13.819 --> 00:33:16.619 and more practice. So as I mentioned earlier, 00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:19.279 I work with children, although mostly older children, 00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:21.880 with developmental language disorder or DRD. 00:33:22.349 --> 00:33:25.190 So this is a lifelong condition in which children 00:33:25.190 --> 00:33:28.329 have difficulty understanding and using their 00:33:28.329 --> 00:33:29.970 first language, so it's not about learning a 00:33:29.970 --> 00:33:32.829 second language, and where there's no obvious 00:33:32.829 --> 00:33:34.910 cause for this. So it's not the kind of outcome 00:33:34.910 --> 00:33:37.089 of a biomedical condition such as hearing loss 00:33:37.089 --> 00:33:41.029 or a neurological condition. So DLD affects around 00:33:41.029 --> 00:33:44.650 7 .5 % of the population, or to put it another 00:33:44.650 --> 00:33:47.250 way, two children in every classroom. So it's 00:33:47.250 --> 00:33:49.710 as common as dyslexia and more common than... 00:33:49.950 --> 00:33:52.269 autistic spectrum disorder but there's much less 00:33:52.269 --> 00:33:55.930 public awareness around it and DLD might be difficult 00:33:55.930 --> 00:33:58.130 to diagnose in the early years because a lot 00:33:58.130 --> 00:34:00.289 of the children who are late talkers go on to 00:34:00.289 --> 00:34:03.809 then develop age -appropriate language but within 00:34:03.809 --> 00:34:06.670 an oracy context I guess some early signs might 00:34:06.670 --> 00:34:09.769 be things like children using fewer words than 00:34:09.769 --> 00:34:12.070 other children or maybe taking longer to start 00:34:12.070 --> 00:34:14.969 combining those words into sentences they might 00:34:14.969 --> 00:34:17.380 struggle to follow instructions especially if 00:34:17.380 --> 00:34:19.760 there are kind of multiple steps to those instructions. 00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:22.519 They might find it harder to answer these kind 00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:24.119 of open -ended questions that we've been talking 00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:27.800 about or to retell what's happened in a story 00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:29.460 or what they've done in their day. So there's 00:34:29.460 --> 00:34:33.099 kind of unstructured narrative skills. And they 00:34:33.099 --> 00:34:35.940 might produce sentences that are short or incomplete 00:34:35.940 --> 00:34:38.579 or ungrammatical in a way that is not kind of 00:34:38.579 --> 00:34:40.840 typical of their developmental stage. So maybe 00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:42.980 something like me go park instead of I went to 00:34:42.980 --> 00:34:45.460 the park. And of course, these children might 00:34:45.460 --> 00:34:49.340 also appear quiet or frustrated or disengaged, 00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:51.840 particularly during activities that are language 00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:54.340 heavy. And so often these kinds of language difficulties 00:34:54.340 --> 00:34:57.860 might be labelled as behavioural issues. So then 00:34:57.860 --> 00:35:00.639 if we're thinking about sort of adaptations that 00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:02.659 we might make to support these children with 00:35:02.659 --> 00:35:06.239 SEND, including those with DRD, they will often 00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:09.500 need more time to process information and instructions. 00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:13.380 And also to formulate their own ideas and plan 00:35:13.380 --> 00:35:16.900 what they want to say. So I guess one way that 00:35:16.900 --> 00:35:19.360 we can address this without singling out children 00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:21.880 is to try and create an environment where thinking 00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:25.760 time is normalised for everyone. Another adaptation 00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:28.840 is to use visual support. So children with DLD 00:35:28.840 --> 00:35:31.039 and other special educational needs often have 00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:33.440 difficulties with working memory. And so while 00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:36.619 language is very transient and it sort of appears 00:35:36.619 --> 00:35:38.969 the moment we speak. Something that's visual 00:35:38.969 --> 00:35:41.309 is a bit more permanent and it allows the child 00:35:41.309 --> 00:35:44.670 time to process what they've heard. So this could 00:35:44.670 --> 00:35:47.769 be things like pictures or symbols or even just 00:35:47.769 --> 00:35:51.329 gestures. So, for example, during tidy up time, 00:35:51.530 --> 00:35:53.989 practitioners could use a visual schedule or 00:35:53.989 --> 00:35:55.989 they might use kind of picture cards showing 00:35:55.989 --> 00:35:58.530 each area of the room, like a picture of the 00:35:58.530 --> 00:36:01.230 book corner, the blocks, the water tray, alongside 00:36:01.230 --> 00:36:03.050 the spoken instructions that they're giving. 00:36:03.250 --> 00:36:05.070 And so this would help children with language 00:36:05.070 --> 00:36:07.230 difficulties who might not be able to process. 00:36:07.659 --> 00:36:10.119 multi -step verbal instructions straight away 00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:12.840 by giving them a kind of clear visual reminder 00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:14.679 that they can refer back to while they complete 00:36:14.679 --> 00:36:16.940 the task and sort of linked to this we can think 00:36:16.940 --> 00:36:19.679 about how we word those instructions and break 00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:22.159 them down into more manageable chunks so rather 00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:24.659 than saying something like before you go outside 00:36:24.659 --> 00:36:26.719 put your painting on the drying rack and wash 00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:29.739 your hands and that's a very complex instruction 00:36:29.739 --> 00:36:32.280 because it involves two actions plus a before 00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:34.340 you go outside it's a third action that's sort 00:36:34.340 --> 00:36:36.789 of somewhere happening in the future It also 00:36:36.789 --> 00:36:39.130 includes a word that's kind of related to a time 00:36:39.130 --> 00:36:40.849 concept, which can be very challenging for children 00:36:40.849 --> 00:36:44.610 with language difficulties, so before. So instead, 00:36:44.710 --> 00:36:46.630 we could say something like, let's put your painting 00:36:46.630 --> 00:36:48.809 on the drying rack. Now it's time to wash your 00:36:48.809 --> 00:36:51.269 hands. Then we can go outside. So you're really 00:36:51.269 --> 00:36:53.389 breaking that down into single steps, which really 00:36:53.389 --> 00:36:54.909 helps with that kind of temporal sequencing. 00:36:55.530 --> 00:36:57.010 And then, of course, that's even better if you 00:36:57.010 --> 00:36:59.170 have pictures or symbols that you can point to. 00:36:59.590 --> 00:37:02.610 And then another adaptation is repetition. So 00:37:02.610 --> 00:37:04.389 this is also really important for children with 00:37:04.389 --> 00:37:07.650 language difficulties. or DLD. So research shows 00:37:07.650 --> 00:37:10.349 that children with language difficulties need 00:37:10.349 --> 00:37:12.829 around three times as many exposures to a word 00:37:12.829 --> 00:37:15.309 that's embedded in a storybook to learn it compared 00:37:15.309 --> 00:37:16.929 to children with typical language development. 00:37:18.050 --> 00:37:20.590 That's really interesting. I was just going to 00:37:20.590 --> 00:37:23.610 quickly ask, you mentioned about take -up time 00:37:23.610 --> 00:37:27.190 and thinking time. How much thinking time is 00:37:27.190 --> 00:37:30.070 enough thinking time, in your opinion? That's 00:37:30.070 --> 00:37:32.309 a really good question. So I guess, I mean, I 00:37:32.309 --> 00:37:34.880 don't have a magic number. um i guess it's about 00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:37.320 being sensitive it will vary depending on you 00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:39.019 know the children that you have in your setting 00:37:39.019 --> 00:37:42.639 so their age you know their their needs um and 00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:44.380 and the individual children you're working with 00:37:44.380 --> 00:37:47.599 at that particular point in time um but i i think 00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:50.559 it's yeah it's about sort of just trying to it 00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:52.119 doesn't i think it matters less about sort of 00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:53.820 how much time you give and more that it's something 00:37:53.820 --> 00:37:55.980 that's just normalized because you don't want 00:37:55.980 --> 00:37:58.179 it to sort of come across as for this particular 00:37:58.179 --> 00:38:00.659 child you have to wait a long time but for everybody 00:38:00.659 --> 00:38:02.260 else they're just going to reply straight away 00:38:02.260 --> 00:38:05.050 so it's about kind of making that a part of how 00:38:05.050 --> 00:38:08.469 we think and how we respond to everybody. Maybe 00:38:08.469 --> 00:38:10.750 not so much about how long it needs to be. I 00:38:10.750 --> 00:38:12.969 think, as I say, that would sort of be, you know, 00:38:12.969 --> 00:38:15.170 practitioners know the children in their setting 00:38:15.170 --> 00:38:17.550 better than anyone else. So I think they would 00:38:17.550 --> 00:38:19.989 probably have a good idea of those children and 00:38:19.989 --> 00:38:22.710 what they need. I think the reason I ask is I 00:38:22.710 --> 00:38:24.989 think sometimes as adults, silence can feel really 00:38:24.989 --> 00:38:27.409 overwhelming. And actually, we have this real 00:38:27.409 --> 00:38:29.869 tendency to sometimes jump in and, you know, 00:38:29.889 --> 00:38:32.449 something that maybe feels like 10 seconds might 00:38:32.449 --> 00:38:34.570 actually be three or four seconds, but it just 00:38:34.570 --> 00:38:36.789 feels a long time because we're not used to having 00:38:36.789 --> 00:38:39.130 a silence there and waiting for a response. Yeah. 00:38:39.730 --> 00:38:41.750 So, yeah, it's a really important reminder to 00:38:41.750 --> 00:38:44.269 just be mindful of that take up time and that 00:38:44.269 --> 00:38:46.650 thinking time and, you know, make sure we are 00:38:46.650 --> 00:38:49.309 doing that inclusively and doing it across our 00:38:49.309 --> 00:38:51.809 classroom for every child. So, no, really good 00:38:51.809 --> 00:38:54.150 reminder. So maybe that's a good place to start 00:38:54.150 --> 00:38:56.539 is just to sort of get used to. OK, five seconds 00:38:56.539 --> 00:38:58.260 doesn't sound like a long time, but let's just 00:38:58.260 --> 00:39:00.780 time it and see how long that feels like, you 00:39:00.780 --> 00:39:02.340 know, and just get used to that feeling of waiting. 00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:04.380 Because I agree, I think it's very much kind 00:39:04.380 --> 00:39:06.159 of an instinct that we want to jump in because 00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:08.059 we want to help children, you know, and it's 00:39:08.059 --> 00:39:10.500 that kind of instinct to, you know, either answer 00:39:10.500 --> 00:39:12.639 for them or, you know, provide a prompt or do 00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:14.280 something when actually maybe just what they 00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:16.480 need is a little bit more time to formulate their 00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:20.360 thoughts. So, Nikki, we've kind of touched on 00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:22.559 how would we best support or see development 00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:25.059 for those children with English as an additional 00:39:25.059 --> 00:39:28.320 language? OK, so I think the first thing to say 00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:29.960 is that children who use English as an additional 00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:32.119 language are language learners, so they're not 00:39:32.119 --> 00:39:34.519 language delayed. Although, of course, there 00:39:34.519 --> 00:39:36.579 might be some cases where there is also an underlying 00:39:36.579 --> 00:39:40.260 language difficulty. And also, although we obviously 00:39:40.260 --> 00:39:43.559 group them together as EAL, these children do 00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:45.559 represent a very diverse group who come from 00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:47.659 a range of social... economic and geographical 00:39:47.659 --> 00:39:50.900 backgrounds. So with this in mind I guess an 00:39:50.900 --> 00:39:54.159 important thing to think about is valuing and 00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:57.500 drawing on that child's first language so children's 00:39:57.500 --> 00:40:00.380 home languages are a resource rather than a barrier 00:40:00.380 --> 00:40:02.960 so encouraging children to use all of their languages 00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:05.039 helps to kind of build conceptual understanding 00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:07.380 because they can sort of see how different concepts 00:40:07.380 --> 00:40:10.579 go across different languages and also of course 00:40:10.579 --> 00:40:12.239 it helps to support their feelings of identity 00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:16.239 and confidence. So even if staff in the setting 00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:19.300 don't speak the same language, just by showing 00:40:19.300 --> 00:40:21.860 interest or using kind of bilingual books or 00:40:21.860 --> 00:40:24.699 visuals or encouraging home language use with 00:40:24.699 --> 00:40:28.219 families can make a big difference. And I guess, 00:40:28.239 --> 00:40:30.579 you know, similarly, as we've talked about previously, 00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:33.340 modelling kind of very rich and clear English 00:40:33.340 --> 00:40:36.179 and meaningful contexts can be helpful for children. 00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:39.579 So as we talked about, language learning is most 00:40:39.579 --> 00:40:41.480 effective when it's embedded in kind of real 00:40:41.480 --> 00:40:44.469 world experiences. Again, narrating on children's 00:40:44.469 --> 00:40:47.550 actions, commenting on play and using repetition 00:40:47.550 --> 00:40:50.530 and gestures and so on to support understanding. 00:40:51.130 --> 00:40:53.170 And then I think, you know, the question around 00:40:53.170 --> 00:40:56.429 creating activities and opportunities to talk 00:40:56.429 --> 00:40:58.789 without that pressure is important here too. 00:40:58.949 --> 00:41:01.309 So again, that kind of small group work or short 00:41:01.309 --> 00:41:04.650 shared storytelling gives children with speaking 00:41:04.650 --> 00:41:06.849 English as an additional language to opportunities 00:41:06.849 --> 00:41:08.849 to hear and practice language in kind of more 00:41:08.849 --> 00:41:13.019 low stakes settings. And finally, I think going 00:41:13.019 --> 00:41:15.579 back to the idea of giving children time, so 00:41:15.579 --> 00:41:18.320 they might just need some time to tune in to 00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:20.659 the rhythms and patterns of English. So if they 00:41:20.659 --> 00:41:23.099 are quiet in activities, we don't want to put 00:41:23.099 --> 00:41:25.860 pressure on them to speak. We can sort of respect 00:41:25.860 --> 00:41:27.579 the fact that this might be part of their learning 00:41:27.579 --> 00:41:30.739 process of kind of acquiring English and still 00:41:30.739 --> 00:41:32.400 include them in these activities, but just not 00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:34.659 putting pressure on them to contribute in ways 00:41:34.659 --> 00:41:36.280 that they're not necessarily comfortable with. 00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:38.860 I think it really highlights, doesn't it, just 00:41:38.860 --> 00:41:41.460 what a diverse range of needs we have in our 00:41:41.460 --> 00:41:44.460 classrooms nowadays and in our settings. Obviously, 00:41:44.539 --> 00:41:47.440 we've spoken about SEND and particularly developmental 00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:49.960 language delay. We've spoken about EAL children 00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:52.840 and also the whole range of other different speech 00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:54.619 and language needs that are out there as well 00:41:54.619 --> 00:41:57.139 that we haven't even touched on. So just to throw 00:41:57.139 --> 00:42:00.019 another one in the mix, why don't we? I wanted 00:42:00.019 --> 00:42:02.900 to quickly talk about dialects as well. which 00:42:02.900 --> 00:42:04.980 perhaps is something that we don't often think 00:42:04.980 --> 00:42:07.940 about when we're thinking about the kind of languages 00:42:07.940 --> 00:42:10.820 that present in our classroom. So obviously when 00:42:10.820 --> 00:42:12.719 we talk about dialects, we're talking about the 00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:15.639 way that we kind of use unique words and phrases 00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:17.960 and how they may have been pronounced slightly 00:42:17.960 --> 00:42:20.139 differently in different parts of the country. 00:42:20.300 --> 00:42:22.400 And with people moving around a lot more these 00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:24.679 days, I think it's not that uncommon that we 00:42:24.679 --> 00:42:26.639 probably do see a range of dialects within our 00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:28.739 setting. So I was just having a little think. 00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:30.679 I don't know. I know that, Nikki, you're based 00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:33.639 in Oxford and you're probably not a Norfolk girl 00:42:33.639 --> 00:42:38.900 like me and Jo maybe are at the moment. But obviously 00:42:38.900 --> 00:42:41.320 in Norfolk, we have a few of our own little phrases 00:42:41.320 --> 00:42:43.679 and sayings. So I thought I'd give you a little 00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:45.659 test, see if you know what these mean. Do you 00:42:45.659 --> 00:42:50.920 know a bishy barnaby? I don't. So that's a Norfolk 00:42:50.920 --> 00:42:53.760 saying for a ladybird. And something else that 00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:55.960 we might often say in Norfolk as well is that 00:42:55.960 --> 00:42:57.739 we might refer to something being on the huh. 00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:02.300 Have you heard of that one before? So if something 00:43:02.300 --> 00:43:04.559 is on the huh in Norfolk, it means it's on the 00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:06.739 wonk. You might hang a picture frame and it might 00:43:06.739 --> 00:43:09.059 be on the huh, it might be on the wonk a little 00:43:09.059 --> 00:43:11.780 bit. But yeah, just thinking about dialects and 00:43:11.780 --> 00:43:15.960 all of this being in mind, how do we ensure that 00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:18.579 we are celebrating language diversity and dialect 00:43:18.579 --> 00:43:20.860 in our classroom, particularly around our work 00:43:20.860 --> 00:43:24.530 with Oracy? And not just valuing, I think, what 00:43:24.530 --> 00:43:27.110 people seem to call standard English or the Queen's 00:43:27.110 --> 00:43:29.469 English as being the kind of only correct form 00:43:29.469 --> 00:43:32.769 of speaking. Yeah, I think this is a really important 00:43:32.769 --> 00:43:36.210 consideration around oracy. So I guess the most 00:43:36.210 --> 00:43:38.369 important message to get across is that oracy 00:43:38.369 --> 00:43:41.130 is about adding to a child's communication toolkit, 00:43:41.230 --> 00:43:44.510 not replacing what they already have. So we're 00:43:44.510 --> 00:43:47.849 not trying to erase or correct children's home 00:43:47.849 --> 00:43:49.849 language or dialect or that kind of cultural 00:43:49.849 --> 00:43:52.719 ways of speaking. But it's true, I think, that 00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:55.420 the education system and society more widely 00:43:55.420 --> 00:43:58.659 do privilege certain kinds of speech, usually 00:43:58.659 --> 00:44:02.039 this more formal standard English. And while, 00:44:02.139 --> 00:44:03.780 of course, there is growing recognition that 00:44:03.780 --> 00:44:05.179 we need to value different ways of speaking, 00:44:05.320 --> 00:44:08.699 I think there's still a long way to go. But I 00:44:08.699 --> 00:44:11.280 guess in the meantime, by exposing children to 00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:13.539 kind of different modes of language, we can try 00:44:13.539 --> 00:44:15.320 and give them the understanding and the skills 00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:18.840 to code switch or adapt their language for different 00:44:18.840 --> 00:44:22.199 contexts. What do we mean by modes of language, 00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:24.679 sorry? Yeah, so I mean sort of different registers 00:44:24.679 --> 00:44:26.599 potentially. So, you know, the language that 00:44:26.599 --> 00:44:28.780 we use when we are, let's say, I don't know, 00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:31.079 in a courtroom is going to be very different 00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:32.619 to the kind of language we use when we're out 00:44:32.619 --> 00:44:34.860 having a drink with our friends, you know. And 00:44:34.860 --> 00:44:36.579 same, you know, even for children, you know, 00:44:36.579 --> 00:44:39.300 they learn that the way they speak maybe to siblings 00:44:39.300 --> 00:44:41.360 at home is very different to the way they speak 00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:44.199 to kind of teachers or practitioners in earlier 00:44:44.199 --> 00:44:46.980 settings. yeah so it's just the idea it's just 00:44:46.980 --> 00:44:49.119 being aware that language can be used differently 00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:51.119 and is used differently across different contexts 00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:53.880 and so having the knowledge and the flexibility 00:44:53.880 --> 00:44:56.099 to be able to adapt your communication style 00:44:56.099 --> 00:44:58.460 to suit these contexts I think is a really important 00:44:58.460 --> 00:45:00.820 skill for children to learn and that's what I 00:45:00.820 --> 00:45:03.260 mean too about not replacing we're not saying 00:45:03.260 --> 00:45:04.699 that what they the way they speak is wrong in 00:45:04.699 --> 00:45:07.699 any way that's absolutely valid um but you know 00:45:07.699 --> 00:45:09.639 the way I speak is different depending on the 00:45:09.639 --> 00:45:12.800 context that I'm in so yeah and I guess you know 00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:15.550 in terms of celebrating language diversity within 00:45:15.550 --> 00:45:18.150 early years practices, I suppose, recognising 00:45:18.150 --> 00:45:20.829 that, you know, dialects aren't kind of incorrect 00:45:20.829 --> 00:45:22.809 versions of English. They have actually their 00:45:22.809 --> 00:45:25.170 own structures and vocabulary and grammar. And 00:45:25.170 --> 00:45:28.250 so kind of validating them and legitimising them 00:45:28.250 --> 00:45:30.250 as forms of communication can help children feel 00:45:30.250 --> 00:45:34.389 respected and included. So we can sort of help 00:45:34.389 --> 00:45:36.469 children to explore how language varies in different 00:45:36.469 --> 00:45:38.460 contexts. So you could say something like. We 00:45:38.460 --> 00:45:40.460 use different words at home, at school or in 00:45:40.460 --> 00:45:42.340 stories and then explore some of these examples 00:45:42.340 --> 00:45:44.019 of children just to kind of really make explicit 00:45:44.019 --> 00:45:46.800 this idea that language is something that's very 00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:50.760 creative and very flexible. And of course, you 00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:53.420 know, you could use books or songs or storytelling 00:45:53.420 --> 00:45:55.760 that actually reflects these different dialects 00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:58.059 of the children in your setting. So maybe you 00:45:58.059 --> 00:46:01.019 could invite families to share phrases or idioms 00:46:01.019 --> 00:46:03.860 that they use and kind of build these into activities 00:46:03.860 --> 00:46:07.559 or displays within the earlier settings. That's 00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:10.139 a really nice idea. I think it's nice to kind 00:46:10.139 --> 00:46:12.539 of help build their identity as well and the 00:46:12.539 --> 00:46:15.360 way that they feel connected to the area that 00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:17.079 they're from. So, yeah, they're really lovely 00:46:17.079 --> 00:46:19.739 suggestions. Yeah, and I think just showing curiosity 00:46:19.739 --> 00:46:21.699 as well. So, you know, if a child is using a 00:46:21.699 --> 00:46:24.039 particular word or a particular phrase, you know, 00:46:24.059 --> 00:46:28.780 you can ask them about it, you know, or just 00:46:28.780 --> 00:46:30.320 say, you know, what words do you use at home 00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:31.980 for this? Or what does your family call this? 00:46:32.059 --> 00:46:33.539 You know, you can sort of talk about the fact 00:46:33.539 --> 00:46:35.599 that people use that language in different ways. 00:46:36.190 --> 00:46:38.829 Lovely. Thank you, Nikki. Okay, we're going to 00:46:38.829 --> 00:46:41.650 kind of move on to, you know, what we think may 00:46:41.650 --> 00:46:44.670 be some challenges and opportunities. So I guess 00:46:44.670 --> 00:46:46.510 the first thing we just want to ask you, Nikki, 00:46:46.590 --> 00:46:49.929 is what barriers do our early years practitioners 00:46:49.929 --> 00:46:54.989 face in prioritising oracy? And do you feel there 00:46:54.989 --> 00:46:58.389 are any strategies they can sort of use to overcome 00:46:58.389 --> 00:47:02.409 these barriers? Yeah, so I suppose, particularly 00:47:02.409 --> 00:47:04.750 when children get to reception, I suppose one 00:47:04.750 --> 00:47:07.190 barrier is that there's a lot of pressure to 00:47:07.190 --> 00:47:09.650 get children kind of school ready so often that's 00:47:09.650 --> 00:47:12.570 sort of means focusing on early reading like 00:47:12.570 --> 00:47:15.489 foundational reading skills and numeracy but 00:47:15.489 --> 00:47:18.630 as we've discussed you know oracy is the foundation 00:47:18.630 --> 00:47:21.349 that supports all of that so if children can't 00:47:21.349 --> 00:47:23.190 express themselves or understand spoken instructions 00:47:23.190 --> 00:47:24.449 then they're going to struggle when it comes 00:47:24.449 --> 00:47:26.829 to learning phonics or reading stories or and 00:47:26.829 --> 00:47:28.710 you know even joining in with early mark making 00:47:28.710 --> 00:47:32.250 on paper so I guess that, you know, overcoming 00:47:32.250 --> 00:47:34.690 that barrier is just about recognising that we 00:47:34.690 --> 00:47:37.070 can do oracy through everything that we do, not 00:47:37.070 --> 00:47:40.130 just as a sort of separate thing and separate 00:47:40.130 --> 00:47:44.070 kind of element to children's learning. And I 00:47:44.070 --> 00:47:45.969 guess another challenge potentially is practitioner 00:47:45.969 --> 00:47:48.610 confidence around knowing what good oracy practice 00:47:48.610 --> 00:47:50.650 looks like. I mean, we've discussed a little 00:47:50.650 --> 00:47:52.349 bit about the definition of oracy, and I don't 00:47:52.349 --> 00:47:54.489 think anybody is really in agreement about what 00:47:54.489 --> 00:47:57.750 it means. So, you know, how are we expecting 00:47:57.750 --> 00:47:59.909 earliest practitioners to know what it means? 00:47:59.969 --> 00:48:02.519 So I think. You know, it's sort of trying to 00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:04.159 embed what we know is good practice in terms 00:48:04.159 --> 00:48:08.440 of early language skills into our everyday work. 00:48:09.639 --> 00:48:11.480 And I think that kind of highlights the need 00:48:11.480 --> 00:48:13.440 as well for targeted professional development 00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:15.400 and kind of practical strategies, the kinds of 00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:17.599 things that we've been talking about that can 00:48:17.599 --> 00:48:20.320 show practitioners how they can embed RSC and 00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:22.079 also what they're already doing. I think that's 00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:24.969 another important point. Actually, I think. Early 00:48:24.969 --> 00:48:26.829 years settings are almost at the forefront of 00:48:26.829 --> 00:48:29.369 oracy because for a long time, oral language 00:48:29.369 --> 00:48:31.469 skills have been very important across the early 00:48:31.469 --> 00:48:33.690 years foundation stage curriculum. And, you know, 00:48:33.690 --> 00:48:35.769 it's recognised that speaking and listening actually 00:48:35.769 --> 00:48:37.889 underpin all of the seven areas of learning. 00:48:38.289 --> 00:48:41.070 So in some ways, I think we can look to early 00:48:41.070 --> 00:48:43.869 years settings as being an example of how oracy 00:48:43.869 --> 00:48:46.429 education is already happening. And then I guess, 00:48:46.429 --> 00:48:47.710 you know, there's a sort of setting that we've 00:48:47.710 --> 00:48:49.530 talked about as well. The fact that, you know, 00:48:49.550 --> 00:48:51.889 earlier settings are very busy and noisy places. 00:48:52.510 --> 00:48:55.449 So it can be hard to kind of prioritise talk 00:48:55.449 --> 00:48:58.309 within those settings. But I think, again, these 00:48:58.309 --> 00:49:00.309 little changes can have a big impact over time. 00:49:00.449 --> 00:49:02.429 So slowing down to really listen to children, 00:49:02.550 --> 00:49:04.750 using these open -ended questions or setting 00:49:04.750 --> 00:49:08.610 up a kind of area that involves sort of quieter 00:49:08.610 --> 00:49:11.250 time and more opportunities for one -to -one 00:49:11.250 --> 00:49:14.849 talk. I think remembering as well as a practitioner 00:49:14.849 --> 00:49:17.130 amongst all of the busyness and the things that 00:49:17.130 --> 00:49:18.769 you're probably thinking that you need to do, 00:49:18.829 --> 00:49:20.929 it's kind of remembering the key skills, isn't 00:49:20.929 --> 00:49:22.510 it, that you've mentioned earlier. And I'm just 00:49:22.510 --> 00:49:25.170 wondering whether perhaps visual aids for the 00:49:25.170 --> 00:49:27.489 practitioners as well as the children sometimes 00:49:27.489 --> 00:49:30.130 just to remind yourself to do some of those early 00:49:30.130 --> 00:49:33.590 language skills can also perhaps be a helpful 00:49:33.590 --> 00:49:37.070 thing to do just to embed that learning amongst 00:49:37.070 --> 00:49:39.590 all of the staff team. Not just perhaps the people 00:49:39.590 --> 00:49:41.309 that perhaps listen to this podcast or go on 00:49:41.309 --> 00:49:43.630 the training, but to make sure it's applied universally 00:49:43.630 --> 00:49:47.010 across everybody. You know, it could be a helpful 00:49:47.010 --> 00:49:54.150 starting point. Yeah, that's a nice idea. We're 00:49:54.150 --> 00:49:56.110 going to move on to talk a little bit about supporting 00:49:56.110 --> 00:49:58.570 families as partners now, Nicky, if that's OK. 00:49:59.110 --> 00:50:01.690 And I'd be keen to get your input on how we can 00:50:01.690 --> 00:50:04.210 better support oracy development at home, especially 00:50:04.210 --> 00:50:07.170 in communities where children may have less exposure 00:50:07.170 --> 00:50:09.909 to rich language. and where parents and carers 00:50:09.909 --> 00:50:12.849 as well may struggle themselves with oracy. So 00:50:12.849 --> 00:50:15.250 in your opinion, what does meaningful support 00:50:15.250 --> 00:50:17.789 look like for families and how can we empower 00:50:17.789 --> 00:50:20.230 them to support their own children's oracy development? 00:50:20.630 --> 00:50:23.090 And I'm thinking about that in terms of before 00:50:23.090 --> 00:50:25.250 they actually reach their setting, so in those 00:50:25.250 --> 00:50:27.929 first few kind of critical years of life, but 00:50:27.929 --> 00:50:30.829 also, you know, as they are within their setting 00:50:30.829 --> 00:50:32.869 as well, so that two, three, four -year -old 00:50:32.869 --> 00:50:35.630 stage. Yeah, so I think, well, firstly, I think 00:50:35.630 --> 00:50:37.210 you've raised an important point about the fact 00:50:37.210 --> 00:50:40.000 that Parents and carers may struggle with oracy 00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:42.940 too. So we need to be sensitive to these kind 00:50:42.940 --> 00:50:44.500 of language differences within the home and avoid 00:50:44.500 --> 00:50:47.179 any sense of blaming parents for not providing 00:50:47.179 --> 00:50:50.219 the right environment for their child. So, for 00:50:50.219 --> 00:50:52.579 example, we know that the language and literacy 00:50:52.579 --> 00:50:54.500 environment that children grow up in, so, for 00:50:54.500 --> 00:50:56.679 example, how much parents read to them or the 00:50:56.679 --> 00:50:58.960 quality and quantity of language that parents 00:50:58.960 --> 00:51:02.139 use when they talk to children is linked to children's 00:51:02.139 --> 00:51:04.389 later language and literacy development. But 00:51:04.389 --> 00:51:06.849 this association might be heavily influenced 00:51:06.849 --> 00:51:09.849 by inherited factors. So in other words, if a 00:51:09.849 --> 00:51:12.170 parent finds speaking, reading or learning difficult, 00:51:12.469 --> 00:51:15.269 their child may inherit some of those same traits. 00:51:15.369 --> 00:51:17.650 But these shared genetic traits also shape the 00:51:17.650 --> 00:51:19.829 environment. So, for example, a parent who finds 00:51:19.829 --> 00:51:22.969 reading hard may read less often at home, not 00:51:22.969 --> 00:51:24.909 out of neglect, but because of just their own 00:51:24.909 --> 00:51:28.559 experiences. So, yeah. Children's oracy development 00:51:28.559 --> 00:51:31.219 is influenced by a complex mix of both what they 00:51:31.219 --> 00:51:33.059 inherit and what they experience. And so that's 00:51:33.059 --> 00:51:35.219 why we need to approach this work with empathy 00:51:35.219 --> 00:51:38.019 and avoid placing kind of blame on families. 00:51:38.539 --> 00:51:40.260 But of course, this doesn't mean that we can't 00:51:40.260 --> 00:51:42.679 model good oracy practices and engage families 00:51:42.679 --> 00:51:45.619 in children's learning. So I guess it starts 00:51:45.619 --> 00:51:48.659 really with building relationships. So recognising 00:51:48.659 --> 00:51:51.980 the strengths that families already bring. So 00:51:51.980 --> 00:51:53.840 even if they don't use the same kinds of language 00:51:53.840 --> 00:51:56.139 practices that we might see in school or nursery, 00:51:56.280 --> 00:51:58.300 it's about... meeting families where they are 00:51:58.300 --> 00:52:00.460 and not necessarily expecting formal educational 00:52:00.460 --> 00:52:03.099 talk, but just valuing their everyday conversations. 00:52:03.500 --> 00:52:07.099 So, for example, a parent who may struggle with 00:52:07.099 --> 00:52:09.599 reading themselves might not feel confident to 00:52:09.599 --> 00:52:11.480 sit and read a book with their child every night, 00:52:11.559 --> 00:52:14.139 but they might feel more confident kind of singing 00:52:14.139 --> 00:52:16.380 songs or nursery rhymes. And these can build 00:52:16.380 --> 00:52:18.519 children's language development in many ways. 00:52:18.539 --> 00:52:21.679 So building vocabulary, developing a sense of 00:52:21.679 --> 00:52:24.559 rhythm and sound patterns. in whichever language 00:52:24.559 --> 00:52:28.320 it is, and help with memory and sequencing. And 00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:30.260 I guess we can also support families by making 00:52:30.260 --> 00:52:34.199 oracy feel approachable and doable. So sharing 00:52:34.199 --> 00:52:36.059 some of the ideas I talked about earlier, just 00:52:36.059 --> 00:52:38.420 very simple things like pausing to let their 00:52:38.420 --> 00:52:40.840 child finish sentences, asking kind of these 00:52:40.840 --> 00:52:43.659 open -ended questions, or describing what they 00:52:43.659 --> 00:52:46.010 see their child doing in play. So these are strategies 00:52:46.010 --> 00:52:48.570 that don't require any additional resources or 00:52:48.570 --> 00:52:51.429 really time. It's just a shift in how caregivers 00:52:51.429 --> 00:52:54.070 are sort of interacting day to day. But again, 00:52:54.170 --> 00:52:57.130 that can be something that's discussed in a sensitive 00:52:57.130 --> 00:53:00.550 way or modelled by earliest practitioners. And, 00:53:00.570 --> 00:53:02.449 you know, thinking about our own language when 00:53:02.449 --> 00:53:04.389 we're talking with families. So we don't necessarily 00:53:04.389 --> 00:53:06.650 want to be talking to them about developing narrative 00:53:06.650 --> 00:53:08.929 skills because that's a little bit remote, you 00:53:08.929 --> 00:53:11.750 know. So we might just talk about telling stories 00:53:11.750 --> 00:53:13.769 about their day or telling, you know, telling 00:53:13.769 --> 00:53:16.429 stories. So the more accessible the languages 00:53:16.429 --> 00:53:18.469 that we use when we talk about children's development, 00:53:18.630 --> 00:53:21.090 the more, I guess, families are likely to engage. 00:53:22.589 --> 00:53:25.469 And I think I've mentioned it already, but sort 00:53:25.469 --> 00:53:28.469 of modelling these language practices that we've 00:53:28.469 --> 00:53:30.690 been talking about. So the way we talk with children 00:53:30.690 --> 00:53:33.269 in front of their caregivers can be a kind of 00:53:33.269 --> 00:53:35.809 subtle but maybe powerful way of modelling some 00:53:35.809 --> 00:53:37.309 of these supportive language strategies that 00:53:37.309 --> 00:53:39.269 we've been talking about. So it's kind of less 00:53:39.269 --> 00:53:41.949 of a sort of, you know, do as I do. It's just 00:53:41.949 --> 00:53:45.150 sort of showing how it can be done. And finally, 00:53:45.230 --> 00:53:47.590 I guess really important is listening as well. 00:53:48.360 --> 00:53:50.840 kind of creating that space for a two -way dialogue 00:53:50.840 --> 00:53:53.219 between families and practitioners so not just 00:53:53.219 --> 00:53:55.820 practitioners telling families what to do but 00:53:55.820 --> 00:53:58.599 listening also to their experiences learning 00:53:58.599 --> 00:54:00.739 from their knowledge of their child as you say 00:54:00.739 --> 00:54:02.079 you know before the child reaches the earlier 00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:04.159 setting that parent has been with that child 00:54:04.159 --> 00:54:06.360 already for two years or whatever and so they 00:54:06.360 --> 00:54:09.059 they know them better than anybody and trying 00:54:09.059 --> 00:54:11.820 to work together to to find out you know what 00:54:11.820 --> 00:54:13.579 works for that child what that child's interests 00:54:13.579 --> 00:54:16.869 are that you can then use in order to sort of 00:54:16.869 --> 00:54:19.969 promote oracy once they reach the setting. So 00:54:19.969 --> 00:54:21.909 it sounds like quite a lot of the advice is really 00:54:21.909 --> 00:54:23.889 the same advice that you would give to practitioners 00:54:23.889 --> 00:54:25.750 so it's really just about those practitioners 00:54:25.750 --> 00:54:28.670 sharing that information with parents in a kind 00:54:28.670 --> 00:54:31.469 of sensitive and effective way really I guess 00:54:31.469 --> 00:54:33.710 based on the parents you have in your setting 00:54:33.710 --> 00:54:35.570 and I guess each practitioner will know that 00:54:35.570 --> 00:54:38.130 yeah know know what approaches may work for them. 00:54:38.429 --> 00:54:40.889 Yeah and also just as I mentioned you know the 00:54:40.889 --> 00:54:42.929 parents will know the children as well so you 00:54:42.929 --> 00:54:45.619 know it's kind of Working together with the practitioners 00:54:45.619 --> 00:54:47.519 with the knowledge about what might be supportive 00:54:47.519 --> 00:54:48.980 in terms of children's language development, 00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:51.579 but also the parent knowing what's feasible and 00:54:51.579 --> 00:54:53.440 what their child's interests are and, you know, 00:54:53.460 --> 00:54:57.420 strengths and needs. It really highlights the 00:54:57.420 --> 00:54:59.400 importance of good transitions, doesn't it? So 00:54:59.400 --> 00:55:01.460 that transition from home to school and making 00:55:01.460 --> 00:55:03.639 sure that, you know, that's done in the best 00:55:03.639 --> 00:55:05.920 way that it possibly can be. And also, you know, 00:55:05.940 --> 00:55:08.079 between different classes as the child grows 00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:10.619 as well, those transition points and opportunities 00:55:10.619 --> 00:55:13.210 to talk to parents are really valuable. Yeah, 00:55:13.269 --> 00:55:16.690 absolutely. So thinking about what you've just 00:55:16.690 --> 00:55:19.449 said, Nikki, about practitioners really doing 00:55:19.449 --> 00:55:22.869 that really good transition and talking to those 00:55:22.869 --> 00:55:25.510 families about what words they use at home, their 00:55:25.510 --> 00:55:28.889 language and things like that. And do you have 00:55:28.889 --> 00:55:31.150 any other thoughts on how settings can genuinely 00:55:31.150 --> 00:55:34.269 celebrate that home language, the family talk, 00:55:34.309 --> 00:55:36.530 the storytelling traditions that those families 00:55:36.530 --> 00:55:40.219 might be using at home? Yeah, so I think as I 00:55:40.219 --> 00:55:42.260 just touched on, having that kind of two way 00:55:42.260 --> 00:55:45.099 dialogue is really important because I guess, 00:55:45.099 --> 00:55:48.619 you know, you can bring in stories and traditions 00:55:48.619 --> 00:55:52.199 from children's homes into the earlier setting. 00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:54.739 And not only will that make children sort of 00:55:54.739 --> 00:55:57.860 feel more, give them a stronger sense of identity 00:55:57.860 --> 00:56:00.940 potentially, but also it helps children also 00:56:00.940 --> 00:56:03.719 to learn about, you know, other children's backgrounds 00:56:03.719 --> 00:56:06.199 and interests and these different kind of traditions 00:56:06.199 --> 00:56:10.090 that we might see. I think, yeah, sort of capitalising 00:56:10.090 --> 00:56:13.190 on this diversity in terms of language experiences, 00:56:13.650 --> 00:56:16.909 storytelling traditions and all of those things 00:56:16.909 --> 00:56:19.389 can actually and ways of speaking as well. We 00:56:19.389 --> 00:56:21.570 talked a little bit about kind of maybe idioms 00:56:21.570 --> 00:56:23.329 and things like that that you might want to bring 00:56:23.329 --> 00:56:25.650 in. So, yeah, having that two way dialogue with 00:56:25.650 --> 00:56:28.349 families and trying to embrace some of the home 00:56:28.349 --> 00:56:31.210 language practices and bringing that into the 00:56:31.210 --> 00:56:33.929 earlier setting so that all children can benefit 00:56:33.929 --> 00:56:36.880 and learn from it, I think is important. We're 00:56:36.880 --> 00:56:39.400 fast approaching the end of our conversation, 00:56:39.519 --> 00:56:42.739 Nikki. So I just wanted to ask you, if you could 00:56:42.739 --> 00:56:44.860 change one thing about how oracy is approached 00:56:44.860 --> 00:56:48.159 in the early years, what would it be? Yeah, so 00:56:48.159 --> 00:56:51.099 I think the first thing to say goes back to something 00:56:51.099 --> 00:56:55.219 I mentioned earlier. I think a lot of what goes 00:56:55.219 --> 00:56:57.260 on in early years education is already a really 00:56:57.260 --> 00:57:02.000 excellent example of oracy in practice. Many 00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:03.800 activities within earlier settings are built 00:57:03.800 --> 00:57:06.019 around oral storytelling, book talk, rhymes, 00:57:06.320 --> 00:57:09.739 questions, all of those things. And as I mentioned, 00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:11.719 to some extent, oracy is already prioritised 00:57:11.719 --> 00:57:13.920 more in the early years settings than it is in 00:57:13.920 --> 00:57:16.980 schools. So I think possibly the most important 00:57:16.980 --> 00:57:19.500 thing to think about is to sort of think about 00:57:19.500 --> 00:57:21.519 oracy as a shared intentional practice across 00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:23.780 the whole setting. So not just something that 00:57:23.780 --> 00:57:26.539 happens during circle time or story time. We've 00:57:26.539 --> 00:57:29.320 touched on this already. So it's about recognising 00:57:29.320 --> 00:57:31.159 and taking advantage of opportunities throughout 00:57:31.159 --> 00:57:33.679 the day to build on children's language. And 00:57:33.679 --> 00:57:36.179 so this does require quite systematic planning 00:57:36.179 --> 00:57:39.019 and making conscious decisions about how we can 00:57:39.019 --> 00:57:41.500 model, scaffold and extend children's communication 00:57:41.500 --> 00:57:45.659 in different situations. So it's making sure 00:57:45.659 --> 00:57:47.519 that everybody has that knowledge and skills 00:57:47.519 --> 00:57:49.460 in order to be able to do that within the setting. 00:57:50.269 --> 00:57:53.090 So, for example, we could use snack time to ask 00:57:53.090 --> 00:57:54.989 open ended questions about children's thoughts 00:57:54.989 --> 00:57:57.309 and feelings around food. So, for example, why 00:57:57.309 --> 00:58:00.250 do you like that banana? And also maybe to model 00:58:00.250 --> 00:58:03.050 descriptive words like crunchy, sweet and ripe. 00:58:03.190 --> 00:58:05.630 So it's kind of seizing all of these small opportunities 00:58:05.630 --> 00:58:09.469 throughout the day just to embed those kind of 00:58:09.469 --> 00:58:11.989 oracy skills in the activities that you're doing. 00:58:12.050 --> 00:58:14.130 But also, as I say, I think it's something that 00:58:14.130 --> 00:58:16.530 maybe needs to be a little bit systematic in 00:58:16.530 --> 00:58:18.469 order to make sure that everybody. is on board 00:58:18.469 --> 00:58:21.829 and knows what's happening um and thinking you 00:58:21.829 --> 00:58:23.190 know quite carefully about what sort of language 00:58:23.190 --> 00:58:25.389 you want children to be using across these different 00:58:25.389 --> 00:58:27.389 activities so being aware of these different 00:58:27.389 --> 00:58:29.650 sort of i talked about registers of language 00:58:29.650 --> 00:58:32.730 so um languages different types of language that 00:58:32.730 --> 00:58:36.010 you might use in different contexts um so as 00:58:36.010 --> 00:58:37.849 i say a lot of these practices are already happening 00:58:37.849 --> 00:58:39.409 but i think it's just about understanding why 00:58:39.409 --> 00:58:41.570 they're important and making sure that everybody's 00:58:41.570 --> 00:58:46.349 on the same page lovely thank you So Nikki, when 00:58:46.349 --> 00:58:48.250 practitioners walk into their setting tomorrow, 00:58:48.449 --> 00:58:51.150 what's the greatest thing they can do immediately 00:58:51.150 --> 00:58:54.949 that's going to have a really big impact? Yeah, 00:58:54.989 --> 00:58:57.929 so I think a really kind of impactful thing that 00:58:57.929 --> 00:58:59.909 practitioners could do that really doesn't require 00:58:59.909 --> 00:59:02.269 much in the way of, well, anything in the way 00:59:02.269 --> 00:59:05.429 of resources or time is just to think about their 00:59:05.429 --> 00:59:07.829 communication style when they're interacting 00:59:07.829 --> 00:59:11.469 with children. Firstly, to slow down, both in 00:59:11.469 --> 00:59:14.730 terms of allowing the child time and also introducing 00:59:14.730 --> 00:59:17.909 pauses into your own speech to allow children 00:59:17.909 --> 00:59:20.730 that processing time. Secondly, to really tune 00:59:20.730 --> 00:59:23.250 in to what children are saying or trying to say. 00:59:23.730 --> 00:59:26.449 And then thirdly, respond to them in a way that 00:59:26.449 --> 00:59:29.030 builds on what they've said. So whether you're 00:59:29.030 --> 00:59:31.690 kind of expanding on a child's comment or pausing 00:59:31.690 --> 00:59:33.889 to let them finish their thought or just kind 00:59:33.889 --> 00:59:36.269 of staying with their idea a bit longer, just 00:59:36.269 --> 00:59:39.739 that act of being present. in conversation with 00:59:39.739 --> 00:59:41.900 children could do so much to support their language 00:59:41.900 --> 00:59:44.420 um you don't need new resources you just need 00:59:44.420 --> 00:59:47.739 um attention and responsiveness so yeah i would 00:59:47.739 --> 00:59:50.519 say it's kind of three things but slow down tune 00:59:50.519 --> 00:59:54.599 in and respond thank you nikki i think that brings 00:59:54.599 --> 00:59:57.420 us nicely to the end of our conversation today 00:59:57.420 --> 01:00:00.219 um so i just wanted to say thank you so much 01:00:00.219 --> 01:00:03.539 for joining us today nikki It's been really insightful 01:00:03.539 --> 01:00:06.239 learning more about what oracy is, what oracy 01:00:06.239 --> 01:00:08.239 looks like in the early years and how we can 01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:10.519 all build and embed more oracy into our practice. 01:00:11.199 --> 01:00:13.420 So thank you again for sharing all of your knowledge 01:00:13.420 --> 01:00:16.190 and all of your experience with us too. I've 01:00:16.190 --> 01:00:18.809 certainly learned a lot. I'm sure our practitioners 01:00:18.809 --> 01:00:21.230 at home will have learned a lot too. So if you 01:00:21.230 --> 01:00:22.969 are listening and you've enjoyed this conversation, 01:00:23.110 --> 01:00:25.190 then please do share the episode with all of 01:00:25.190 --> 01:00:27.110 your colleagues, because I think it's a really, 01:00:27.150 --> 01:00:30.590 really helpful topic to look into. And yeah, 01:00:30.690 --> 01:00:32.889 I really, really appreciate you joining us today. 01:00:33.050 --> 01:00:35.409 So thank you. Thank you very much. It's been 01:00:35.409 --> 01:00:37.679 a real pleasure talking to you both. Before we 01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:40.199 let you go, we started a bit of a closing tradition 01:00:40.199 --> 01:00:42.420 on our first podcast, which we'd like to continue 01:00:42.420 --> 01:00:44.800 with, which is where we ask our guest speaker 01:00:44.800 --> 01:00:47.079 to leave behind three questions for our Norfolk 01:00:47.079 --> 01:00:49.519 Early Years practitioners. And these questions 01:00:49.519 --> 01:00:51.179 are for our listeners at home to think about 01:00:51.179 --> 01:00:53.679 between now and our follow -up face -to -face 01:00:53.679 --> 01:00:56.920 communication hub meetings, which next term will 01:00:56.920 --> 01:01:00.389 be starting from the 17th of June. So the first 01:01:00.389 --> 01:01:02.389 question you won't be surprised to hear is around 01:01:02.389 --> 01:01:05.829 storytelling. So my question is, what role does 01:01:05.829 --> 01:01:08.750 storytelling, which includes books, retellings, 01:01:08.750 --> 01:01:12.230 role play, play in your setting? So I've just 01:01:12.230 --> 01:01:14.050 had a couple of sub questions to make that a 01:01:14.050 --> 01:01:15.869 little bit more specific. So how could you strengthen 01:01:15.869 --> 01:01:18.769 the link between stories and oracy in your practice? 01:01:19.349 --> 01:01:21.610 And how does your storytelling, whether through 01:01:21.610 --> 01:01:24.449 books, retelling or play, support emotional literacy 01:01:24.449 --> 01:01:28.480 and theory of mind? And then the second one is 01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:30.980 around what I sort of finished with talking about. 01:01:31.099 --> 01:01:34.119 So in what ways do you consciously create space 01:01:34.119 --> 01:01:37.000 for children to lead talk, not just respond to 01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:39.340 adult prompts? And the follow up bit of that 01:01:39.340 --> 01:01:41.900 is how might you shift more interactions from 01:01:41.900 --> 01:01:44.800 adult led questioning to genuinely shared thinking? 01:01:45.780 --> 01:01:48.559 Brilliant. And number three? Number three is 01:01:48.559 --> 01:01:51.079 how can you support oracy for children who communicate 01:01:51.079 --> 01:01:54.079 differently, whether due to language delay, EAL, 01:01:54.360 --> 01:01:57.320 neurodivergence or shyness? And the sub bit of 01:01:57.320 --> 01:01:59.719 that is how can you ensure multiple entry points 01:01:59.719 --> 01:02:02.300 into talk? So ideas of different ways of getting 01:02:02.300 --> 01:02:05.519 into oracy and make sure these children are equally 01:02:05.519 --> 01:02:08.739 included in peer dialogue. Brilliant. That gives 01:02:08.739 --> 01:02:10.980 us a huge amount of food for thought. They're 01:02:10.980 --> 01:02:13.260 really excellent questions. Thank you for sharing 01:02:13.260 --> 01:02:15.980 them with us today. I think we're going to have 01:02:15.980 --> 01:02:18.420 a lot to think about following those. So brilliant. 01:02:18.460 --> 01:02:20.340 I'm really looking forward to exploring those 01:02:20.340 --> 01:02:22.840 more at the next sessions. So yeah, thank you 01:02:22.840 --> 01:02:24.260 again, Nikki, for joining us. It's been great 01:02:24.260 --> 01:02:26.539 having you on the episode today. Thank you, Nikki. 01:02:26.900 --> 01:02:31.360 Thank you. We'd like to remind everyone that 01:02:31.360 --> 01:02:33.559 as part of our new Communication Hub format, 01:02:33.760 --> 01:02:36.159 this podcast will be followed up with a face 01:02:36.159 --> 01:02:38.659 -to -face workshop -style session in your local 01:02:38.659 --> 01:02:41.800 district. These workshops will provide you with 01:02:41.800 --> 01:02:44.000 an opportunity to delve deeper into the topics 01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:46.599 that we have covered today, think about the practical 01:02:46.599 --> 01:02:49.179 application of embedding Oracy into your setting, 01:02:49.320 --> 01:02:52.099 and network with like -minded professionals from 01:02:52.099 --> 01:02:55.039 your local area. You will also have the opportunity 01:02:55.039 --> 01:02:57.360 to talk to your early years advisor and improvement 01:02:57.360 --> 01:02:59.699 development worker about any support you need. 01:02:59.880 --> 01:03:02.280 Plus, you will have the opportunity to ask any 01:03:02.280 --> 01:03:04.760 questions in person to our speech and language 01:03:04.760 --> 01:03:08.300 therapists. These communication hub workshops 01:03:08.300 --> 01:03:10.480 are open to all Norfolk early years practitioners, 01:03:10.699 --> 01:03:13.719 teachers and professionals. For early years practitioners 01:03:13.719 --> 01:03:16.539 and those working in schools, please book onto 01:03:16.539 --> 01:03:18.940 the Communication Hub workshop via the portal. 01:03:19.159 --> 01:03:22.579 And for everybody else, please email earlyyearschildcare 01:03:22.579 --> 01:03:25.239 at norfolk .gov .uk to reserve your space.