Hi and welcome to a new How Did You Make It,
the podcast in which we help you manage the confusion,
navigate the uncertainty and challenges of your
teenage life onwards. Here you will get insights
and advice from diverse individuals who face
very similar challenges and who can't wait to
empower you. I'm Yusra, your host, and today
I'm welcoming Maya. And there is so much to learn
from her. I'm not going to spoil you too much,
but essentially you're going to learn the impact
of sports in her life from her early teenage
years till today. And what's absolutely brilliant
is throughout the podcast, she's going to share
with you tools you can take home and use every
day to build your confidence, resiliency, and
to simply empower yourself. So let's go. Hi,
Maya, and welcome to the podcast. I'm so happy
to have you with us today. I'll just give you
the floor. Hi, Yorsa. My name is Maya Lawrence.
Thank you so much for inviting me and having
me join the podcast today. I am an American who
is living in Paris now. I'm also a former Olympian
and I went to the 2012 Olympics for fencing.
And right now I'm living in Paris and I have
a family and I have a job. And I moved on a bit
from my athletic life into fintech corporate
life. And I can't wait to talk about everything
you mentioned already. Thank you, Maya. But first,
I always ask guests to share their own definition
of success. What's yours? I really think that
success is how you define it. I think a lot of
the time in life and with myself too, I kind
of let other people define what success is. And
I got caught up in what they thought it meant
to achieve goals. So whether it meant... you
know, getting good grades or going to a good
school or living a comfortable life or winning
a certain amount of medals or making a lot of
friends. I think that is actually kind of very
difficult because when you're young, you're trying
to figure out what it means for you. So in the
end, oftentimes it's a mix of what other people
suggest it can be and what you decide it is for
yourself. For me, my definition of success basically
changed a lot over time as well. So when I was
younger, it meant certain things. And when I
got older and as I grew up, it meant other things.
And I guess I can say, too, that if I think specifically
about sports and I think specifically about fencing,
my definition of success changed. Even weekly.
It wasn't something that was, you know, was always
the same. One week it would be, I don't know,
like try to win a bout against an older fencer
on my team. The next week it would be try to
win a bout against someone on another team. And
then the next month it would be try to win this
competition. And then that morphed into... um
try to go to the olympics and then that morphed
into try to win a medal so it the definition
of success for me in sports grew a lot um over
time so here you go your success doesn't need
to look like a big thing success can be counted
in your everyday actions it can be you showing
up it can be you managing to do your exams better
than planned you decide Maya, you also mentioned
that sometimes success can be defined by other
people for you. So how do you find a balance
between listening to the pieces of advice you're
receiving or when are you supposed to, how can
we call that, maybe listening to your gut? And
it's probably different when you're a teenager
and when you're an adult. So how would you find
this balance between? How would you find this
balance in those two different times in your
life? Actually, now that I think about it, I
think for me, and I don't know if it's the same
for other people, it might not be so different
as a teenager or as an adult. And maybe that's
just kind of the way that I operate. But I've
noticed and I found that I try to also surround
myself with people who I admire and who I trust
and who believe in me. And I think that maybe
for me, it might be hard for me to be sometimes
brave enough to set the goals. And I think about
it and almost every time that I did something
that's considered quote unquote successful, it's
someone else who told me that I should try to
do that thing. It's almost like I couldn't articulate
that thing myself so someone else had to say
it for me and then I had to say oh yeah that's
a really good idea um this is what happened to
me when I um decided to apply to Princeton this
is what happened to me when I decided I wanted
to win a medal at the Olympics this is what happened
to me even now at work excuse me I have like
mentors and managers who say like you should
try to you know like go to the next level and
do this or you should try and like lead this
project and I kind of just say oh yeah that's
a good idea and I just go and do it so I think
that also these people probably realize that
I need a little bit of a push sometimes to decide
that I want to do something and then after that
I'm really good at following through and doing
it but like that initial decision is always probably
the hardest part. And that's been the same thing
for me since I was a teenager in through adulthood,
I think. So I think finding the right people
to surround you with who can be that support
and sometimes give you that push is really important
in, you know, figuring out exactly what that
success means to you. And then of course you
modify and think about ways that it might not
be exactly what they say. It might be better
if it's a certain way because that's how you
feel. But I think that the base of it is just
making sure that you're surrounded by people
who believe in you and trust you and know you
and your boundaries and your limits. And that
ecosystem is so important, right? Because it
is also explaining you what exists out there.
And sometimes they are showing you how capable
you are, that you deserve more than you think.
But if that ecosystem is not built in by that,
I mean, siblings, family members, friends, whoever
it is, how do you build that for yourself? That's
an excellent question. I think that some people
are probably lucky enough to have something like
that built in either with family or friends.
That's, you know, good and solid and ready made.
Not everyone has that. that luck for that to
happen and a lot of people I think have a mixed
bag you know you've got some people who are you
know that are that are good for you some people
who are not so great for you um but I think it
comes down to also figuring out and understanding
like what your values are and what you believe
is true and right and important and then Once
you figure that out, it becomes clear who the
people are that should be the ones that you keep
around to form that good ecosystem for you. Yes.
And to add to that, I think there's one way you
can approach it gradually is to put yourself
out there. Because the reality is that no one
is going to come to you. At least it's very,
very rare. But essentially... No one is going
to come to you and say, oh, I see potential in
you. You can do this, this, this and that. So
what do I mean by putting yourself out there?
So if you're already practicing any sports or
any crafts or you're already volunteering or
you have a job, it means actively looking for
opportunities, asking management, coaches, teachers,
what opportunities can you seize? What opportunities
can you walk towards too? And if nothing works,
that's completely fine. Maybe the next thing
you will be doing will get you somewhere. But
anyway, I know I'm repeating myself in each episode,
but everything that's meant for you will find
you, but you still need to take those actions.
So let's learn about you, Maya. Can you tell
us about your teenage years, your passions, the
activities you were doing, and everything else
that shaped your early teenage years? Yeah, so
I was a good student. I liked school, so that
made it a bit easier. There were certain things,
obviously, that I was better at than others.
I was not a great math student, and it's not
because I didn't really like it. It just didn't
come. as natural to me as, as some of the other,
some of the other subjects. So, um, but that
doesn't mean I didn't try. It doesn't mean that
I didn't, you know, do, do the work and take
the harder classes I did, but it was, it was
something that I probably had to spend at least
a third more time on than, than anything else.
Um, I, I would say when I was a more preteen
when I was in middle school, I never got in big
trouble, but the problem was always the same,
which was that I was talking in class with my
friends. Always the same reprimand on the report
card. So all the grades would be fine, but then
there'd always be a note from the teacher. I
had to really figure out how to stop talking
in class. I don't know, I guess there was always
something that we felt like we needed to share
with each other that was really important in
that moment. But no, I liked school and I got
good grades. I do remember that, I mean, I come
from a town that is extremely, extremely diverse.
When I was living in New Jersey, a town called
Teaneck, New Jersey, when I was growing up there,
there were a huge mix of different kinds of people
in the public schools, and I was in the public
school system. So there were a lot of African
Americans, a lot of Jewish people as well, of
all different kinds of like ranges of religion
from conservative to um reformed there were also
people you know of uh hispanic origin southeast
asian asian it was like just a huge mix of different
kinds of people so a lot of the time it was all
it was a very and still is a very liberal town
so um oftentimes when there was um i guess you
can say an inkling that something might be unfair
because of race or religion or gender was brought
like out in public very quickly. So when I was
in eighth grade or seventh grade, I think there
was a huge, huge kind of, I guess you can say
scandal in the public school system where there
were There were accusations of like institutional
racism in the classroom so that students who
were either Black or Hispanic were getting tracked
into classes that were like easier classes, not
honors classes, not AP classes and things like
that. So I remember at one point, for some reason,
there was one class that or two classes I was
taking that were not like higher level classes.
My parents, my mom, I think it was specifically
marched up to the school in order to make sure
that I, you know, like got put into the classes
that she thought were the ones that were the
most challenging. So I think also seeing and
again, having people around you who believe that
you can do things really helps you to believe
that you can. And if you don't have those people
who. who can push you and can give you the encouragement,
then it's a lot, it can be a lot harder to, to
try and push yourself to do it without having
them behind you. So, so yeah, I liked school.
I took challenging classes and I, and, and I
enjoyed it. I also did a lot of activities. You
were talking before about. getting out of the
house and making sure you meet people and do
things. When I was in middle school and high
school, it was really seen as important if you
wanted to go into college to have lots of extracurricular
activities. So it was the 90s and that was the
way that things were in the U .S. I think it's
similar now. Maybe it's toned down a bit, but
then it was just like you had to do as many things
as possible. um and try and do them relatively
well um so yeah I mean I was in like um lots
of different clubs like the Black Youth Organization,
American Cancer Society and like the Honor Society
and Marching Band and all these kinds of different
clubs that I really enjoyed being in and I made
a lot of friends too um in these in these clubs
so I think that that's actually one of the great
things about the U .S. system is that you have
a shorter school day, so you have more time to
do these things. So you get out of school, you
know, at like 2 .30 or something. And you have
the afternoon to do these activities and these
clubs so that you are able to socialize with
other kids and learn, you know. either, you know,
either run a sport or music or volunteer all
at the same time. So I did a lot of that. And
then, of course, I did a lot of sports, too.
So I was I was not very good at most sports,
actually. It's pretty bad. A lot of them. But
I did them anyway. So I played basketball and
softball and baseball, like from a very early
age and then kind of fell into fencing when I
was. When I was a sophomore in high school, I
actually, I actually joined the fencing team
my freshman year. And then I, I got a C on a
math test and I freaked out and I quit the fencing
team because I thought that it was interfering
with my academics. I was very dramatic. It was
one, one quiz. I think it was like a 10 question
quiz or something. So I quit the team and I didn't
fence my freshman year. And then I went back
and tried to get my sophomore year. And then
I stayed and continued to do it. So yeah, lots
of activities and sports when I was a teenager.
Your inputs are so valuable, Maya. Thank you
so much. First, I'm sure that a lot of us can
relate to being quite talkative at school. You
raise crucial points. And here I will be calling
to parental figures, whoever is in charge, as
you were mentioning institutional racism, there
is a crucial call to action. Please keep an eye
and track the decisions that were made for the
new generation, who probably doesn't even know
and realize the potential impacts and the decisions
that are made for them by structures who want
to marginalize them. And if you... And if you're
listening and you don't even know where to start,
start by attending the parent -teacher meetings.
Or another option would be to reach out to NGO
structures where you're based and ask them to
help you understand more what the next generation
deserves and need. Another thing that I found
very interesting is what you said about sports.
Essentially not taking it too seriously and not
being that good at them. And be okay with that.
So how do you build that mindset to just take
part of those activities and not care much about
how good you are doing? For me, there is definitely
this idea that like it's OK, even if you're not
the best one at it, because you're still doing
it and you get to see your friends and you get
to play a game and you get to try. And I think,
though, like. So there is this layer of it's
okay because I still have something else. Like,
you know, I'd go to like softball practice. And
I remember that the junior varsity team would
practice like. on one level and then there was
like a hill and there was a second level with
another field and the varsity team would practice
there so i would always go to practice and think
oh it would be so great if one day like i can
practice up on the on the the field like on the
top of the hill um and i would be a little bit
sad about it but then i would kind of just like
keep going and get through practice and try really
hard and see whether or not i could like get
better But then I would always say, oh, it's
OK, because, you know, I also have this other
thing to try. Like I also am trying to like be
a really good flute player. And I'm also trying
to like, you know, like be really great at piano.
And I'm also trying to get really great in school.
So I was all I was like trying so many things
that sometimes like not being great at some of
those things was fine. So there was always something
else to continue to keep striving for. And I
think that that helped. I never just always had
one thing. And then I think I probably, in the
back of my mind, it was a game of stats. If I
try enough stuff, then one of the things will
probably work out to the level of my satisfaction
as well. I think there was probably a bit of
that in the back of my mind. But like, you know,
just the fact that a lot of the stuff and actually
all the stuff I was doing with my friends, I
think really, really made it just fine. Even
if, you know, I was just operating at one level
and not another. So would you say that self -talk
played a main role in helping you making the
most of those activities or were there anything
else that helped you? yeah yeah and and i i think
that too it was um it was my like the people
who were around me like my friends who were okay
also with that and and i trusted them so so that
was so that was fine um and Yeah, I actually
never thought about that question, whether or
not it was the self -talk that made it okay to
just enjoy the moment. I don't know. I think
for me, it was really, and maybe it would have
been easier if it were that, but I do think it
was really just that I... I felt that things
were going to work out in some way at something
on some level. So that made it okay. That maybe
it wasn't working out right now. But one day
if I keep trying and keep going, then it kind
of just had to because I was putting so much
effort into it. I'm not sure how, if that's the
right way to think about it, but that's kind
of the way that I think that I was thinking about
it at that time. i think this is a great way
of thinking about it it's you're putting the
effort you're believing in yourself if it works
it's absolutely fantastic if it doesn't that's
completely fine because you enjoyed your time
you enjoyed the process you're trying different
things which also helps you determine what you
like and what you like a little bit less And
another thing that's happening along the way
is that you're building community. So you're
joining an activity and you're meeting like -minded
people. So here you go, you put yourself out
there and you're learning more. And as Maya said,
if it sticks and if it works, absolutely fantastic.
And eventually what was meant for you, find you.
Maya, let's go back to your grades classes. So
you said that math was not your strength? Yes.
How did you make it through that challenge? How
did you step up your game when it came to math
or any other class? And, you know, you mentioned
something very interesting is that at that age,
we tend to compare ourselves quite often. So
how that comparison went for you? What was the
impact of that comparison when you were looking
at people who were doing better than you? That's
a great question. I think it definitely drove
me to try and do better. When I was looking around
at the people I was in classes with and my friends,
I definitely looked to them for kind of a...
That's the point of comparison is not the right
word, but like kind of what I should strive to
be, particularly if they were good at something
that I wasn't good at. But I think the more important
thing of what I learned, and this took me a little
while, was that there's kind of like a baseline
that makes sense for achievement in academics,
which my parents helped me. to find because you
know like I but you know what actually that's
funny because whenever I tell my mom that she
says no like it was all you you were just like
constantly trying to do better to do better but
it's weird in my mind it was um it was not all
me it was definitely partially my parents but
in any case probably a mix of the two um I I
think that the thing that though what I was what
I want to come back to that I think is important
is um once you find that baseline of like what
is kind of like the okay right like you know
you're you're in a relatively challenging class
but maybe it's not the most challenging class
for me that was the situation for math and then
all of the other classes like I took the most
challenging classes and did really well in them
and that was great and I was happy about that
but being okay with the with the thought of not
being in the hardest class for math and Being
in one that was slightly easier, but that I could
still do well in if I put my mind to it, was
the thing that I had to understand. Because at
the very beginning, I was just very upset and
sad and disappointed and embarrassed that I wasn't
going to take this other class like some of my
other friends. But in the end, I realized that
it was fine because that baseline was already
there. And now that I think about it, I probably
didn't have any time to be in that class anyway.
I would have probably had to spend another four
hours studying that. But I didn't have because
I was doing something else that was just as,
in the end, important and interesting and all
of that. And were you driven by anything else?
Did you know exactly what you wanted to do or
wanted to study later on? Oh, no. I mean, before
high school, I had no idea. In high school, I
had like a vague idea, maybe my senior year.
I got it stuck in my head that I wanted to do
like finance or economics. I have no idea why,
particularly with my relationship with math,
maybe it was like some sort of a, I thought that
it would be some sort of a, like, I don't know,
way to show that like still conquer the numbers.
I have no idea, but no, I really didn't know.
And I think this is also why I. went to a school
that allowed me to like explore different options
for quite a long time for, you know, like basically
the entire four years that I was in school was
just like about learning about things that I
liked. It was a bit like the learning vacation.
I just spent the whole time. Yeah. I mean, for
me also to like what I did. university with sports
was part of my learning so that plus like my
classes and my papers and my theses like that
that was you know the the learning part that
was that was nice um but no I had no idea really
what I wanted to do in um definitely not in middle
school definitely not really in high school um
so no and I don't think that you have to some
people do and that's great for them and they
can start on their path early but if you don't
then that's absolutely fine um and you can change
your your path you know even once you're in school
once you're out of school you can change careers
even once you start one and you don't always
have to prescribe to what you feel like you should
do or what people say that you should do. And
you should try to take the time that you need
to figure it out. And you might not get it right
the first time that you try to do something.
I have a lot of friends and know a lot of people
who tried first careers and decided that's not
what they wanted. And three or four years later
or 10 years later, they decided to do something
else and they're much happier and they're much
better at the other thing. And it was a much
better choice. Don't feel as though you have
to make the best choice and the right choice
right off the bat. And remember that it can change
and you can change and you're not supposed to
know what you want to do when you're 14 years
old. If you do, you're lucky, but I don't think
you're really supposed to know. Because it can
also, I think, change the way that you live.
your teenage years and your your college years
too if you feel like you you know exactly what
you want to do then maybe there are other stuff
there's other stuff that you won't try because
of that and that would be a shame so i would
say try to have an open mind and and know that
even if you think you want to do something it
could be great and continue to try and do it
but it's all right to change your mind it's fine
okay first things first i just want you to listen
to what maya just shared with us right now And
second thing, if you're currently completely
lost, how we are showing is that not only it
gives you so much flexibility, it pushes you
to explore more, be more curious, but also think
about it. I've shared an episode a couple of
months ago where you can find research stating
that the jobs of tomorrow are quite unknown.
So if you were 100 % sure about the job that
you want to do, maybe it won't exist actually
in five, ten years from now. Exactly. So your
confusion is actually a strength. A strength
you have to exploit by remaining curious again,
by keep on developing new skills, invest in your
growth and learning. But before we continue to
talk about that, Maya, can we go back to your
high school years? Can you tell us about... your
high school experience what kind of students
you were the activities that you were doing those
years which are kind of shaping the way the following
one will look like yeah um so in high school
i i had like i had mentioned before i was doing
a lot of different activities i also had like
an overload of classes um and didn't have a lot
of free time um i remember in high school on
saturdays i would get together with my friends
and it was back when you had to like rent a movie
from blockbuster like you had to go to the physical
store and like get a vhs tape and i think at
the very end no i don't even think that i don't
even think it was dvds i think it was really
hs tapes i think maybe like when i was my first
year in college it like switched to dvds but
we would go to blockbuster and we'd get like
one or two like um vhs tapes and they'd like
pop them in we'd have popcorn and stuff me sitting
there and like 10 minutes into the movie i would
just be like asleep falling asleep like completely
exhausted on friday night at like eight o 'clock
like couldn't couldn't do anymore because i would
just had too too many things that were going
on but they would they were so nice to be like
a cover with a blanket wake her up when it's
time to drive her home um but yeah I like I had
a lot going on um still like obviously in high
school really focused on my on my grades and
I had the first year of high school was still
doing a lot of everything um the second year
of high school had like stopped a couple things
um but still had a lot going on um like I stopped
piano, but then went back to fencing. So I guess
it was kind of just a replacement and didn't
really have a lesson that I was doing. But yeah,
I stopped that first freshman year after a couple
of weeks. And the reason I had started actually
was because a group of my friends were just like,
oh, let's just try this new sport. I didn't even
know what it was. And like, none of us knew what
it was, but we all just wanted to do it together.
So we all tried. They continued. I stopped. And
then I remember one day one of them was just
playing around. We were like at our lockers and
she was like, you know, my quitters never went
in life. She said to me, and she was kind of
joking, but I was like a little bit offended
that she had said it. So then I said, okay, well,
next year I'm going to have to start fencing
again because she said that. Then I started again,
and then I realized I really liked it, wanted
to keep going, and, like, it kind of stuck. But,
like, if she hadn't said that, I don't know if
I would have gone back. Because I was really
kind of like, I think that she might be right
about that. I probably shouldn't just stop because
of, you know, this one grade. But I did give
myself that year. And then I went back. So I
started again my second year of high school and
then it kind of like snowballed from there. I
started fencing outside of school and like going
to a club and taking lessons and in competitions
and stuff like that. So. Oh, wow. That conversation
definitely changed your whole life. So you initially
stopped because of. how difficult it was to manage
everything so how did you move forward with balancing
everything before a little bit earlier talks
about like the the baseline of of acceptability
i guess that i i guess i created in my head for
myself perhaps but um what i knew i needed to
do in order to get through high school at the
level i wanted to get through high school at
so that i would be able to go to the kind of
university I wanted to go to and give myself
the opportunities later um I think that actually
a lot of that baseline well it was it came from
different places so it came from my parents it
came from my friends it came from my guidance
counselors it came from even like I remember
um they probably these are probably just all
online now but when I was in middle school they
had these huge like books um like you can go
to like barnes and noble or like the library
or whatever and get these books on like colleges
and it would have like just excerpts from colleges
and it would say like what the college was where
it was like what the average gpa was of someone
who entered the college like what the student
teacher ratio was like all the things you can
study and all that so i would like look at those
books and try and find places that like seem
like they would be interesting for me and then
I think even like looking at those like numbers
that they would put there like what you should
get on your SAT and all of that other stuff like
those were the things that I put in my head to
like form these baselines so I think that whenever
I was like falling below those then I would try
to manage it by either easing up on an activity
I was doing or maybe like deciding that I shouldn't
like do a particular thing on a weekend or like
staying up later so that I can make sure I studied
for a really important quiz or test or whatever.
I spent a lot of like, like late nights studying
in college. I mean, and also in high school.
So I think that the, in terms of managing it,
like I wasn't really functioning on like as much
sleep as a 14 to 18 year old should be probably.
So I think that what I was able to do that was
good was that, or what my parents were able to
do that was good was let me know when I was like
going overboard too much with something. So I
remember i wanted to i wanted to um go to a fencing
camp when i was a junior in high school i think
like all summer because i wanted to like get
better and go to the junior olympics and this
and and all that and my mom was was like okay
fine you can go to the camp and in the same year
i got like accepted into this like um what they
call it Oh, gosh, I can't believe I forgot the
name. I think it was called the Governor's Program
in New Jersey. And basically they like chose
like 20 or 30 kids from the whole state to go
to like this college campus and like take classes
all summer. And I was ready to. like not go to
that and go to the fencing camp. My mom was like,
absolutely not. You're going to the governor's
school because school is first and like everything
else is second. So I think that there was also
that mindset as well. Like sometimes I had to
give up the other stuff and not do it so that
I was on point with the academic things. And
my parents helped me to make those choices when
I... I thought I could make them myself, but
they helped me along to figure out what the best
choices were to make based off of their lived
experiences as well. So I think that some of
the management came from outside from them. Some
of the management came from me, like figuring
out when I should do a little bit less of something
or a little bit more of something else. Um, some
of it came to from, you know, little digs from,
from friends when they thought I wasn't doing
something well enough when they thought I could
do it better. So I think it came from, from many
places. Um, and yeah, I would say it goes back
to that idea of the, the ecosystem that's created
that helps you to figure out like what the balance
should be. Um, when sometimes you can't or are
not as great. at making those decisions yourself
especially if you're someone who is a little
bit over ambitious okay so there are three things
you have to keep in mind the first thing you
need to do is to understand the expectation the
next expectations so here maya is explaining
you that she was making research to understand
what were the act scores that were needed and
what did she need to have to make sure that she
would be considered if she was applying to x
or y school if you have a clear understanding
of the expectations at least at least you can
understand where you need to invest your time
okay so the second thing is she didn't use that
word but you need to learn how to prioritize
and it actually goes hand in hand with the first
point because if your time is limited and you
still want to enjoy your sport class and the
other activity because it helps you in any way
it helps you It helps you get better, feel better,
or any other great feeling. So daily, weekly,
monthly, you need to understand and try to plan
on what you need to do to make sure that you're
meeting at least the minimum expectations from
where you want to go. And the third point is
seeking advice and sometimes actually listening
to people who are slightly older than us. doesn't
need to be people who are decades older than
us if we don't have those people around us but
it can also be someone who's just slightly older
because they have a clearer understanding of
what you'll face very very soon and this actually
refers to the governor's program can you tell
us a little bit more like what is this program
what is in intel how did you apply for it tell
us everything about it well i wish i could tell
you more but it was really It was it was a surprise
to me, too, because I think what happened was
I think I didn't apply to anything like I don't
remember filling out any forms. I don't remember
like knowing what this was before it happened.
So what we understood was that like a teacher
had done it for me. So someone had like put my
name somewhere and then like I got this letter
that was like. if you'd like to go to this program,
I'm kind of like, oh, wow, that's interesting.
No, it was done for me in some way. I don't know
if that was normal or not, or if someone just
decided to do that. And that's how it worked
in my case. Like, I have no idea. But it was
a really great program. It was at Monmouth University,
which was coincidentally like 15 minutes from
my grandmother's house. So my mom thought that
was great. so I was going away but not really
going away um it was my junior year of high school
between my junior and senior year I believe yeah
um and we just took classes there we lived like
on campus we um we uh like lived like almost
like as college students but like in high school
and I think The classes that I took were on like
logistics and transport, something really random.
But I learned a lot because we were also not
very far from like the ports in New Jersey. So
we would like go on these trips and we'd learn
about like container cars and stuff like that.
So I mean, I think it was really mostly just
an opportunity to have high school students who
like, you know. excelled in high school and got
good grades to learn on a college campus and
get a bit of a feel for that before they actually
went away to school. And then they could figure
out, too, a little bit more about what it was
that they were interested in studying and stuff
like that. But I had a really great time. It
was a lot of fun. And I would recommend it if
it still exists for anyone who happens to be
in New Jersey and looking for something to do
between junior and senior year. And do you remember
if you had to pay for it? No, I didn't have to
pay anything. No, no, it was free. Yeah, that
I definitely remember. That also might have been
one of the things my mother realized as being
a very interesting point for the governor's school,
that no, it was completely free. So if you're
interested in joining any kind of programs. similar
to this one, I would suggest you to reach out
to counselors or teachers within your high school.
Maybe the program is not called like that, but
you can probably explain that you would love
to take part of a similar program. So you did
mention that you got into that program because
you had great grades. Can you tell us more? What
about the people surrounding you? Were your friends
as studious as you were? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, I did have good grades and in high school
um and but there were a lot of people who had
better grades than than me in high school like
i i think um i mean i wasn't by any means the
valedictorian or the salutatorian but those were
my friends so i think that that is really important
it's not you then it's good for it to be a friend
but no i think that that also helps you to have
a certain kind of um standard as well it makes
it easier you're not really you know like if
you're if you've got people that you can um you
can look up to and that who you know you're to
a certain extent emulating in terms of the way
that they work and what they think is important
then then that definitely definitely helps um
and i think that Um, the, there were also, you
know, like, um, a fair amount of friends that
I had, um, who were like through sports and other
activities from other places. Um, and I think
that also having that kind of diversity and in
friendships gives you a different kind of perspective.
which is also super important. And during those
years, how did you make it through those difficult
times? So you did explain to us that when you
had a lower grade, you would just try to reprioritize
and identify where you could invest more time.
What was your first reaction when you had those
lower grades? Were you realizing that was...
an opportunity for growth, for learning, for
improving your strategies. What about sports?
Were you also identifying opportunities for improvement,
for growth? Were you taking those difficult moments
personally? How did you manage those moments?
How did you make it through those moments? No,
so that's definitely not the first reaction.
The first reaction is like, for me, I would say
sadness, sorrow, shame. And then, I don't know,
sometimes it could be a few hours later, sometimes
it can be a week later, sometimes a month later,
then it's like, okay, what are you going to do
about it? How are you going to change this and
turn it around? I remember one time, I'm laughing
now because it's so ridiculous when I think about
it, but it's something that happened and that
I was able to turn around. In high school, I
was on the fencing team, like I mentioned, and
we were fencing another team. And the fencing
team didn't have a lot of resources in terms
of like where we could have our matches. They
were just like in the cafeteria. So we would
push like all the tables to the like out of the
middle of the cafeteria and put them on the sides
and we would just have fencing strips in the
middle. And that's where we would have our meets.
we had another team come it was a home meet and
i remember my mom came and watched and um and
i so like there are three different bouts that
you can have you you fence three times in a team
meet and i had fenced twice and won and fenced
once and lost and i was really really upset that
i had lost But winning two and losing one is
not, like, it's fine. Like, there's not a big
deal about it. But for me, this was, like, the
absolute worst thing that could have happened.
We didn't lose the meet. We still won the meet.
Like, I think that I lost by, like, one point
or something. But I was, like, so embarrassed,
so devastated. And because I think also at this
point, it was expected that I would win all of
my bouts. So I remember. And at this point, I
was like 16. I crawled underneath the table in
the cafeteria with all of my fencing stuff on.
I was just crying because I was so upset. And
that was like my first reaction. And a couple
of minutes later, I got up. And also too, this
is, I think at this point, I wasn't the captain
of the team. So it was kind of still acceptable
that I would have this behavior that was like,
you know, not so. Not so hurrah, hurrah, hurrah
for everybody. The next year after that, when
I was captain, I think that's something important
to remember that it wouldn't have been acceptable
because when you're leading people, you do have
to know when you can. show all of your emotions
and when you should hide them because you were
supposed to be the one that's inspiring them.
At that point, though, I was still I was still
kind of, you know, like I wasn't captain. So
they gave me a bit of leeway to cry under the
tables, crying under the table, got back out.
And then what did that mean? No, it was it meant
like I took off all my stuff, my fencing stuff.
The meet was over. I put my bag away. And then.
I went home and I got my other bag that I got
for club practice. And then at night, that night
at seven o 'clock, I went to club practice and
I stayed till like 1030. And that was my way
of like seeing the problem and like wanting to
turn it around. again I was probably over dramatic
I don't I don't even know if the three I mean
every every hour of practice helps but like that
was my way of of saying okay I have to fix the
situation like these are the things that went
wrong that shouldn't have gone wrong like I have
to work on trying to fix them and I went and
I immediately did that so I think that um that
is kind of how Like the difference between the
immediate feeling and reaction and then like
what you do about it. And sometimes, like I said,
that can be hours in between. Sometimes it's
a week, sometimes it's a month. It varies. But
yeah, everyone has that first reaction, I think,
of sadness and disappointment. But it's what
you do after that makes the difference. Absolutely.
that will happen over and over again but it's
always what you do after that's the most important
i could not agree more and would you say that
crying and externalizing it helped you come back
stronger um yeah i think it did i mean i think
that you there's always um a um amount of just
like rawness that you need to go through sometimes
before moving on and fixing a problem, like just
sitting with emotions and feeling them instead
of just covering them up and trying to move on.
So, I mean, if the same thing or I'm sure the
same thing did happen the next year when I was
captain of the team, it doesn't mean that I wouldn't
like cry. I just wouldn't do it in the middle
of the cafeteria. i would have to say okay i
have to you have to keep a strong face just make
sure that like the entire team so maybe it means
like going into the bathroom or maybe it means
like just waiting a couple of hours and letting
it out at home like you have to figure out also
i think and this is important just in life in
general like when and where it's appropriate
to show emotion um in public and where it's not
particularly if you're you know well if you're
in the workplace or if you are like leading um
a a team whether it's a sports team or a team
at work or something like that you have to know
what's appropriate and what's not appropriate
and a lot of high schools is about that learning
about what works what doesn't how to how to work
how to learn what's appropriate what isn't so
you know that second year like when when i would
feel bad i would just have to figure out ways
that you know i i was able to still feel that
rawness, but perhaps not in the same kind of,
you know, public melodramatic way that I would
do it previously. But yeah, it actually, I mean,
I think it does help to, you know, you have to
let yourself feel different feelings in order
to move past them. If you don't feel those feelings
and you just pretend like they're not there,
then they will just come back in some way, shape
or form later. So there's one thing. you have
to keep in mind the failure which you can consider
as a lesson is not defining what's going to happen
next but your action following that situation
is going to define it so as much as you can try
to seize any opportunity to learn from what happened
what didn't go well what can you do better what
are the resources around me which i can leverage
to improve in any way or capacity? Who's surrounding
me and can help me? What's my next immediate
step? Also, Maya, earlier you were sharing that
there were two options for your junior high summer.
So either going to the governance program or
going to that training camp. It's going to be
a very difficult question. But how do you build
the confidence to aim this high and say to yourself,
I think I can represent my country? How did I
decide? It was never like, I think I can do this.
It was more like, this is what I want to do.
And how do I do it? and then later it was like
you know you always have like i'm not sure will
this work am i good enough like all those things
come but like the main thing was always like
i want to do this thing so how do i do this um
and i remember the timing was was was um like
i guess you can say good for that too like i
saw the like 1996 olympics were in atlanta and
they were on tv and this was like when i was
junior in high school so that was like super
inspirational i remember watching a lot of gymnastics
that summer um and like i mean because fencing
they didn't have on television at all but they
had a lot of gymnastics on on tv and swimming
and stuff like that so that was very very inspirational
too and that's kind of like when i was you know
i got the I kind of got it in my head, like,
that's what I want to do. Like, if I'm going
to do this and spend all this time doing this
thing, like, I may as well try and do like, you
know, it at the highest level. That's kind of
like the way I was thinking. Yeah, it was it
was. And then after that, it just kind of became,
well, like, what are the things that I need to
do in order to get there? And I wasn't like super
clear on paths and how things worked until like
my coach started explaining it to me. But like,
I just knew that I just had to go to a lot of
practices and go to a lot of competitions. And
so that's what was basically on my mind. So build
your confidence through actions, through learning,
through trying. And this is absolutely applicable
to your courses, to your classes. And we'll shortly
talk about Maya's higher education, but essentially
it's the idea of putting yourself in a situation
where you are identifying the next steps to achieve
something you have identified. The process will
be extremely long and challenging, but the idea
is that you can make it through the challenges
as long as you're identifying either your own
tiny steps or... you identify people within your
ecosystem who can guide you and help you move
toward that goal. And to wrap up on those high
school years, do you have any pieces of advice
for parents, for the younger generation listening
to us now? Make a plan. Make a plan early. Early
meaning like, you know, I would say start thinking
in eighth grade what it is that you want. to
have done by the end of 12th grade. Because a
lot of the time, the way that classes and schools
are set up, if you're not in the right place
at the right time, it can be even harder for
you to get there later. So I would say make a
plan, but it's okay if the plan changes, that's
fine. And that might change because of what you
decide you want to do. that's different or what
you fall into. Like maybe you start playing an
instrument and that becomes your passion. Or
maybe you decide that you, I don't know, want
to study abroad for a year in high school and
learn a language. Like maybe things can happen.
So that's okay if the plan changes, but have
a plan at the beginning for sure. I would say
to get support from the guidance counselor or
someone at school who knows the inside workings
of the system, because there are things that
you probably don't know about that they might
know about. Maybe it's scholarships, maybe it's
programs over the summer, maybe it's a certain
group or series of courses that you need to take.
There are plenty of things that they know about
because they've just been there for so long.
And then the last thing I would say is try not
to stress too much out about everything. It is
a stressful time, but, you know, one test is
not the end of the world. If something goes wrong,
it does not mean that, you know, it's everything
that you've been trying to accomplish can't be
accomplished. Like the one good thing about.
high school and school in general is that there
are so many opportunities to succeed and if you
if something goes wrong once or twice or three
times or however many times um you can still
turn it around it doesn't mean that um it's the
the end all thank you maya Now, tell us more
about your higher education. You earlier said
that you were empowered to go to Princeton. So
tell us about the support you received and the
pieces of advice you received yourself, but also
all about your experience there, how fencing
was still playing a huge part of your life, and
why you chose to study political science when
earlier you were talking about economics, for
example. Well, I can talk about going from high
school to... to Princeton. I didn't apply there
at the very beginning. I applied to a bunch of
other schools and one school early as well. But
then I was kind of like at a point where I was
trying to make a decision about where I wanted
to go. And my mom said, oh, you should apply
to Princeton too. And I was kind of like, I,
why should I do that? And she was like, just
to see, just to see, we don't know, blah, blah,
blah. I was like, okay, well, whatever. So I
applied also. And then I found out that I got
in. So I, at the, I guess it was in April, when
you have to choose which school you're going
to go to, I had a lot of different choices. And
I was not going to, choose it actually but my
mom again said well let's just go on like the
like there was a weekend that you could do I
think I can't remember what it was called but
it was like a weekend where I stayed with people
who were already at the school like freshmen
I guess so I stayed with them for a weekend and
then I came back I was like oh I think I think
I might want to go I think it might be I think
it might be I think it could be in a nice place.
So then I decided to go. And I have to say also,
Princeton has amazing, amazing, amazing and still
does financial aid. And that was a key factor
as well. The majority of the other schools I
applied to gave me good packages, but it was
by far the best one. So that also was very helpful.
And I'm very, very grateful and thankful for
that. Once I was there, like I had mentioned
before, I thought maybe I would study economics
or something other than what I ended up studying,
but I ended up studying. So the major was what
was called politics, but it's basically political
science and government. And a lot of political
theory. I also did a minor in African -American
studies. So I had a lot of classes about like
the intersections between race and class and
gender and politics. And I loved it. I thought
it was so interesting to study. And I thought
about this a little bit, like why I decided to
study that. And I think I decided to study that
because it helped me to. understand better like
what was going on around me in the U .S. and
in the world too at a certain level but particularly
in the U .S. because the classes were like very
very actually U .S. focused in terms of the things
that were around politics and history and anthropology
and stuff like that so I think that Yeah, I think
that it helped me to kind of like make sense
of things better, to understand why things happened
or why things could happen or why things should
happen or why things might not happen by understanding
like the history and the theories and everything
that happened in the past, like at a more, at
a deeper level. So I think that that's why I
chose to. focus on on those things while I was
in school um and yeah I really enjoyed it I thought
it was um I thought it was really um a really
solid education around all those those different
themes of course there are there are all kinds
of themes that themes that change like every
every year five years or ten years so I actually
also was I was thinking a couple months ago how
interesting it would be to go back and redo all
those classes that I took, but now and how different
they would be. Um, and like how all the, like,
you know, how the teachers would explain things
and like how they would talk about history of
20 years ago as like 20 years ago, but not what
was happening in present day and how it would
be super interesting to like, just redo all those
classes and wondering what they would be like.
Um, but yeah, I, I think that the, the choice
that I made in terms of the major was, was probably
on a a deeper psychological level than I'd like
to, or than I realized at the time. But that
I really did, I really do think that it was a
great education, a great way to learn about learning
and to learn about what was going on in the world.
That makes so much sense. And did you know exactly
what you wanted to do with that degree after
that? I'm still not. No, absolutely not. So I
knew that I wanted to, like, what did I know
when? I'm trying to remember. So I came into
school, I think my freshman and maybe my sophomore
year, definitely once I majored in politics,
I knew I didn't want to have anything to do with
finance or economics. So not as a career anyway.
And I also knew that I didn't want to be, like,
I didn't want to continue higher education and
want, like, to get my doctorate or be a professor
or anything like that. I knew that I wanted to
keep fencing, but that was kind of the easy part.
But I didn't really know what kind of career
I wanted. So once I graduated, I kind of, like,
for a year, I, like, taught fencing classes.
um again my parents uh and then the next year
my mom was kind of like you need to figure out
what um we're happy to support you but you you
need to figure out your plan so they gave me
like a year kind of like you know just um post
post grad uh figuring out and then actually that
next year I applied to grad school at Columbia
Teachers College so I'm I got a master's there
but This was all for my plan of basically for
fencing. So at the same time as I was, again,
fulfilling my academic obligations, I guess you
can say, for that baseline again, I was also
trying to set myself up so that I could do what
I wanted to do for fencing. So I went and I got
that degree from Teachers College in... So that
I could teach non -native speakers English. So
when I, my plan was, and what I did was I moved
to Europe after I got that degree. So like, I
guess it was two years after I graduated, I moved
to Europe. And then with that degree, it was
really easy to find like part -time employment.
So I was able to easily, easily find part -time
employment that helped me to fund the like, training
that I had to do for fencing because fencing
is not well now maybe you can do pretty well
with endorsement sometimes but then like you
were pretty much funding everything yourself
so um I moved to Paris and um found a club and
a coach and um I actually lived with another
fencer for a while who was there like doing her
exchange program for a year or two and I used
that degree that I got to to to work part -time
and then fund my fencing training and competitions
but yeah again it was it was kind of like figuring
out a way to have continue my education so I
would have a degree so I could think about what
I would do, you know, it would be helpful for
later and also using that as a way to, um, to
help me continue, um, to help me continue with
fencing. This is so interesting. So can you tell
us more about your fencing experience when you
joined Princeton? In high school, I was on the
high school team and I had a club. And then in
the U S when you go to university, um, For certain
sports, many sports, they have really strong
university teams, so you are not really obliged
to do a lot of practicing in the club. You do
your practicing with your team. In some universities,
it works a bit different. They have more of a
club system, like if you're in New York or in
other places where there are a lot of people
and a lot of universities. But at Princeton,
it's not very, very close to a big city. You
are, in essence, just practicing with the people
who are there. I was really, really lucky with
the people who I came in with that year. They
were all amazing fencers. They were on the national
team or they were very highly ranked fencers
nationally. And at that point, I wasn't really.
there but i had access to just like people who
were so much better than me um and they're the
reason why i was able to excel because i was
just practicing with them every day and i didn't
have the ability or i didn't have the um the
privilege of doing that that previously um so
i practiced on the the varsity team there at
princeton and my coach there was is amazing amazing
coach and um i just kind of, he kind of put me
on this, this program where I feel like I did
the fencing that we did, um, with the team, but
then I also did like extra stuff. So I would
do like extra things in the morning, extra workouts.
I just kind of like fell into, um, his, his kind
of, um, program. I should probably preface this
with, he was an ex, uh, like, military. So he
was very methodical in the way that he did training,
which I think was really helpful for me. It's
just easier for me when training is like that.
So yeah, we were really, like, he was a really
great coach and inspiration for many reasons,
not just for the, like, sports part but he was
also very into like sports psychology and like
applying um sports things you learn in sports
to like things you learn later in life and now
that i'm working i immediately see the connections
of the things that he would talk about like in
the corporate world as well like it's very very
similar in terms of um philosophy and like psychology
of sport and in business world there there are
a lot of um a lot of similarities in the in the
two but in any case um i continued to fence on
the team there but at the same time i would go
to national competitions because the other fencers
on the team were at that level we would like
travel together to the competitions which made
it a lot easier as well um and we did that like
um you know the four years that we were there
um And then after that, when I graduated, I kind
of just like continued to do the competitions
and with the same, like, you know, well, there
were a couple less people who decided to stop,
but with the same group of girls, we continued
to do the national circuit as well. After school
and through into our 20s. Sports psychology is
something that is so fascinating and that we
should all learn from. So are they? two or three
things that you can share with us now from what
you've loved in the past and which you're still
using to this day? Yeah, sure. So I would say
the, actually it's something that you said. You
mentioned earlier that no one's going to come
and knock on your door and say like, you're the
one I'm going to support you. And I think that
that is something. that my my coach um michelle
sebastiani he made clear as well too like you
have to do something first yourself like no one's
going to no one's going to let you hit them in
fencing it's not just like they're going to stand
there and just let you hit them you have to make
it happen you have to be the one that creates
the situation so that it can be to your advantage
no one is going to willingly create the situation
in the best way um that it should be created
other than you like you're the only one who can
who can do that of course you have people who
will help and people who want the best for you
and all that but but you're the one who has to
has to want it and has to do it so i i think
that's one of the the first and most important
things that he that he taught me um I would say
the second one is that you can be thoughtful
and empathetic and polite and nice and have friends,
but not when you're fancy. Not when you're actually
in front of another person. So you should and
can be all of those things because that is how
humans should try to behave. But you have to...
figure out a way to, when you're in this combat
situation, separate that from those other things.
And I think that when you're working in the corporate
world, like it's very similar, you should be,
especially if you have a team, empathetic and
you should take other people's thoughts into
consideration and you should work as a team and
you should generally be a nice considerate caring
person but there are points in time when you
have to separate all that from other things because
there is a particular goal that needs to be accomplished
so i think that that's the second thing that's
important that he taught me um and i would say
the third thing is is about hard work being the
most important thing but maybe not being the
only thing that is responsible for success so
you obviously have to work really hard you need
to do you need to put in the work so in sports
it's you need to like even though you're a fencer
like you need to go to the gym you need to do
your track work you need to um you need to like
do your which is where you practice moving back
and forth, but without actually fencing, you
need to do your belts with other people. You
need to do a ton of different things. And they
might not be fun. You might not like it. And
there will be things that are not fun that you
don't like, but you have to do them anyway because
you have a goal. But you also need to, there's
a layer of like, how do I say? In fencing, it
would be there's a layer of making sure you're
in the right place so that it happens that you
need to create. So you need to make sure that
you're going to the right competitions. You need
to make sure that you're training in the right
facilities. You need to make sure that you maybe
choose the right roommate. If you're staying
someplace, you need to create the context so
that it is most advantageous for you. And then
in the business world, I would say you need to
do exactly the same thing. You need to make sure
that you have the right mentors. You need to
make sure that if you're constructing a team,
that you do it in the right way. You need to
also make sure that you're networking and that
you know a fair amount of people so that if you
need something, you can call them. There's ways
of constructing your... what we can say again,
ecosystem, but also just like your surroundings
so that you can carve the path in a way that
actually works for you. So those are, I would
say the three things that I learned from him.
Thank you, Maya. And how did you, how did you
make it through those moments where you had to
show up, but you didn't want to, how did you
build the discipline to still show up? I think
I'm going to tell a story. That's okay. So because
actually this is the tail end of the fencing
stuff that we didn't talk about, but I think
this is perfect for what you're asking. So when
I was training to try and make the 2008 Olympic
team, I was at a very last competition and I
needed to come in the top 16 of this competition
in order to have a shot at making the team. And
it was the very last touch of this bout. I remember
I was fencing a Hungarian woman. We were in Greece.
I remember this too. And there were like five
seconds left. So usually when there's five seconds
left, there's usually like one person running
after the other person to try and hit them. And
I was ahead and she was behind. So if the time
ran out, that means that I would win and I would
be in 16. And it was actually based off of two,
I think, whether or not this other. person would
have made a result but like if like she hadn't
at that point so if i'd been in the 16 then i
would have been good in terms of number of points
but the the woman came came at me and like i
blocked her so she didn't hit me um and um then
like i i twisted my knee so i fall down and um
i didn't like really know what had happened like
why like like how serious it was so it was um
after that like she i blocked her and then she
didn't get the point so i was still up by one
um and then um there was another touch that happened
but i couldn't move so she hit me and then after
that like the the um coaches came and were like
you like you can't fence anymore I was like really
upset I was like no I have to finish because
it because um at that point too I think um I
think also at that point what had happened is
they had done a um they do like a coin toss and
if it's a tie and you have one minute left then
like if you have priority which I had then you
went about so I basically didn't I basically
just had to make sure she didn't hit me or I
had to hit her for one minute. And, um, they
were like, no, no, no. Like you, something's
wrong. Like you hurt your leg. And I was like,
so full of adrenaline. I knew, like, didn't want
to listen to anything. I was like, no, I'm going
to finish. Like if I am, I'm not going to stop
now. Um, but then they like put me on the floor
and they did like, they do like this test to
see whether or not you like have torn your ACL
and they like did the like little they do this
thing with your leg with this test and they're
like oh no no like you can't stand there like
you don't have a ligament left in your leg so
you have to stop so she ended up winning the
bout because I had to like um retire from the
bout or whatever so she ended up winning I ended
up not making the 16 and that was kind of like
the beginning of this like two two and a half
year like resilience journey that I had to go
on between 2008 and 2000 basically 2010 um so
I had to go back to the U .S. I got surgery like
I had to take like nine months off I had to go
through rehab and that actually happened I went
back to fencing and then at the first competition
that I was at after that I tore my other ACL
um so which is very interesting because my coach
was like I kind of knew that it would happen
but like you can't you can't really like do anything
to prevent it besides like doing your exercises
but he was like it like when you at that point
too like the surgery was not it's not the way
it is today like you can tear your ACL today
and you can be like doing high -level sports
like much sooner than before before it was like
really you need nine months but um i ended up
trying the other one so i had to go through the
whole thing again for another nine months so
by that time it was 18 months um and the only
thing though that was consistent for me like
during the that like 18 months when i had to
basically do all the rehab and like i wasn't
fencing i was just like doing lessons sitting
down and like on like a stationary bike and stuff
like that was just that like, I will like come
back stronger after this, like everything that's
wrong or didn't work last time or before, like
I have the time now to fix it. Like I have the
time to work on like all of my mental training.
I have the time to work on like my hand strength.
I have the time to work on like my hand speed.
Like everything that wasn't like my lower body,
I was like, I would just concentrate on that.
So it was like everything from my hips up, we
just concentrate fully on that and just try and
come back stronger than I was before. And it
was just constantly like that image of like what
I wanted and like I could still achieve that
thing that I wanted and then just follow the
plan too. And with rehab, like it's like they
give you like a plan. So like I said before,
I like plans. So that was helpful. Um, and I
just made like a, you know, layer upon layer
upon layer of this plan. So I had my rehab plan.
I had my like, you know, sports, uh, psychology,
um, mental training plan. I had like my, you
know, plan for like my, um, for like my speed
and lower body strength. And I had my plan for
like upper body strength. I had everything like
planned really well. So, um, yeah, I think just
concentrating on, um, what it is that I wanted,
having a strong plan and being really resilient
in those times when it feels like everything
is kind of falling apart was really helpful.
And I don't know if I would have succeeded if
that hadn't happened, because I don't know if
I would have known how to manage the resilience.
How do you come back stronger after that? I think
I'm really, really stubborn too. I'm really stubborn.
If I want to do something, it will get done.
If I don't want to do something, it might or
might not get done. But I think that stubbornness
is part of it. I just didn't want to take no
for an answer. It wasn't really an option. And
I was going to be the one that controlled. what
i tried to do or what i didn't try to do i wouldn't
have full control over everything of course there's
competition there's lots of other people and
there's lots of other variables and things like
that but i wasn't going to let um something that
i viewed as happening to me be like the reason
why i would stop doing something so i think that
stubbornness um kind of like helped transform
into resilience um and Again, it was the same
kind of like, I've put in so much time and effort,
like I'm not going to allow this stupid ligament
thing. That's the reason why this isn't going
to work the way I want it to. And I think too,
my coaches, my teammates were so, so, so, my
parents were so, so, so supportive. And like,
they would get on my case too. I remember they'd
be like, well. Like I remember one of them said
when I first got back after my surgery, we were
talking and she was like, all right, I'll see
you at practice tomorrow. And I was like, you
know, I can't do anything. She's like, yeah,
but you still have to come. I guess so. She actually
was a world champion, too. So like, yeah, that
being around people with that mindset, super,
super important. I think I'll have to go back
to sports psychology. So how do you build resiliency?
How did you build your own resiliency? Honestly,
I had a sports psychologist that I worked with.
And I think that that really, really helped a
lot. I gave myself the space and the time to
do it as well. So it wasn't just like something
I tried to cram in. It was like it became part
of routine. So when you're not sure how to do
something, there are lots of people who know
how to do it. So you can find them and ask them
how to do it. And if you don't have the resources
to pay them or to do something like that, like
you'd mentioned before, there's lots of stuff
online. There's lots of people who have dedicated
the time to explain things. in either MOOCs or
webinars or on YouTube or in other places. Of
course, pick wisely because there's a lot of
people out there that explain, that's explaining
things but are not really explaining them in
the right way. So be careful about that. But
I think you'll find too that there are lots of
people who you can find too that are willing
to be mentors who you might not have even dared
to ask, but that are very, very happy to lend
their insight to you so that you can. Either
figure out what it is that you need to do to
reach the next step or figure out how to move
through a tough time. I would absolutely insist
on you looking into all the resources that are
available on podcasts, on YouTube. doctors themselves,
PhD candidates and leverage those to learn more
about sports psychology, about psychology, about
resiliency and everything that you need to learn
more about to empower yourself. Maya, can you
tell us everything about your 2012 Olympics experience,
your journey before, during and after that? Yeah,
so I did end up going to the 2012 Olympics. It
was great. um i would say that the the same person
who told me i had to go to practice is the one
who helped me to realize that my goal was not
just going but was to win a medal um and that's
what i should strive for um it was it was an
amazing experience like i being surrounded by
like so many people who are so great at what
they do. And also I would say being part of a,
a big, big, large team like that and being able
to, um, being able to be part of a big group
of different kinds of athletes. Um, I mean, I
had done that before and a couple of other kinds
of competitions, but this was by far, obviously
the biggest stage. So that was, that was amazing.
Um, the actual event and the, the fencing too
had its ups and downs. Like the first day individually,
I, I, I did okay, but I didn't, I mean, I, I
won one bout and then I lost the next one. So
I ended up like in the top 16, which is great.
And, but I remember after it was done, I was,
I was like, I have, I have to keep going because
I didn't do what I wanted to. And little did
I know, though, that I would be able to do that
in the team competition a few days later. So
I was really happy that we were able to achieve
that two together as a team because it wasn't
easy. And the way that fencing team competition
works is that if you win, like all of your bouts
as a team, you basically win the gold medal.
but you have to fence in order to decide who's
three and who's four. So we had to fence another
team, the Russian team, to decide who was three
and four. And we won that bout. And we were so
proud of ourselves because I think it was only
the second time ever we had beaten that team.
They were a really, really, really strong team.
And it was interesting because I wasn't actually
fencing the last bout, but we won in... A similar
situation of overtime, I just realized this,
a similar situation of overtime is when I lost
in that last competition in 2008. And, you know,
it's just like you just have to keep fighting
until the end, basically, like until the last
second, you just have to keep going and going.
And trust that everything that you've done, all
the hard work that you've put in. will will pay
off and even if it doesn't like you're still
there and it's still an amazing time and it's
still an amazing thing that you've done um but
uh yeah it's very obviously very happy with um
with those games and being able to to be there
particularly after the long road that it had
been before and can you share with us any tricks
that were suggested to you or any practices you
are doing ahead of competitions or right before
yeah absolutely absolutely so like they um i
had like a book that i wrote like affirmations
in so i had three specific affirmations that
i had developed with the sports psychologist
prior to the olympics and that i didn't like
just go into their olympics and like recite those
three like They were three that had been deciding
for like six months before. So it was, you know,
six or even nine months before. Sometimes I would
change them slightly, like depending on what
was going on. But there were like three basic,
very basic things that it was just over and over
again. So there was that. And then I had a really,
really specific routine also, like before and
after competitions. And I would just like always
do like the same thing. So like always get a
certain amount of sleep, like always arrive at
like a certain. amount of time before always
know who i was going to warm up with always know
like which like weapons i was going to use like
always like there were like very very specific
things because that gives you also a level of
comfort and also things that you just don't have
to think about like you know that they're going
to be there and that's going to happen so it's
fine and then of course you always have a backup
plan if something goes wrong but you're like
very precise how you do things leading up to
it um and i had like also like um i remember
there was one trick i would do if i was feeling
like too nervous because sometimes i would feel
like not nervous enough to so there were like
physical things i would do to like get my heart
rate up but when i was feeling too nervous i
need to calm down because you have to figure
out what it is that you need to do too because
it's not always the same feeling that you have
that you have to regulate Like I would, as I
was getting dressed, like every time I put on
a piece of clothing, I would say a certain thing.
And it was either like, I can't remember exactly
what it was, but it was something about like
being calm. So every time I put that one thing
on, I would recite that thing over and over again.
So yeah, those were a couple of the things that
I learned from them. so you mentioned affirmations
so what else were you doing where you were about
to compete you were facing your team what were
your thoughts how were you employing yourself
um yeah yeah so like those affirmations that
i talked about too i would say during the matches
but based on specific feelings i would have um
and then there were other ones too like um like
if there was a specific situation and a match
and I had to catch up, like if I had to get more
than three in order to not think about getting
three and only focus on getting one, I would
say things like, like this touch this moment,
for example. And then like, cause you can't,
you can't try and think about getting three when
you. when you're having problems even getting
one so it's just like one at a time so I would
say that like each time I needed to get to one
more and then if I had more than the other person
then I also had to remember that I couldn't relax
because I needed to still try to get to the number
I needed to get to so I would have another line
or after like another like sentence I would say
in order to make sure that um I was I was still
concentrating on like getting the touches and
there was a moment I remember too like um sometimes
when I would get nervous and I um I would like
not move I would like stand still so I remember
the same friend that was that told that told
me I should go to practice and change my goal
like she was sitting there and she I heard her
scream like uh sit down on your legs because
I was standing up because I was nervous and I
wasn't ready. And I heard her voice. I was like,
okay, yeah, I have to do that. And so I did that
thing. And that gave me the energy that I needed.
So even when you're back to being around people,
when you're around those right people all the
time, they even know what they have to say to
you in that moment. And that moment that she
said that was the most important. moment of like
the whole thing and she knew exactly what to
say and she said it okay now I don't have to
do and then you know so it's it's it goes back
to it's not just you it's like your entourage
it's your team like it's it's it's everything
you know so my last call to action either you
are a young person trying to figure things out
or if you're older and you're trying to identify
how you can support someone you know best so
So don't forget to express your support. It's
always incredibly appreciated. Maya, now you're
still living in Paris. I'm still in Paris. I'm
working in FinTech. I'm a product marketing director.
And it's a really interesting industry. There's
lots going on, lots to do. Has nothing to do
with fencing, but everything to do with fencing
and sports at the same time. I really enjoy it.
I really like it. I have a fabulous team and
the company is great as well. And it's a good
fit. I stayed in Europe, didn't go back to the
US, still here. And yeah, I would have to say
everything that like kind of brought me to this
place in this moment, like has to do with all
of that, that we talked about prior, you know,
like. Having a plan, having the right people
and ecosystem around you, knowing when too much
is too much and enough is not enough. Setting
yourself up for success and remembering that
even if things are not going as you'd like in
the moment, that you can turn things around.
And yeah, you're the one who decides what your
goals are and what... your objectives should
be with the help of some knowing and wise people
as well well I was about to ask you last tips
last pieces of advice you have for people listening
to us thank you Maya for everything you shared
with us today no problem I appreciate it thank
you for having me I'm really excited to listen
to more of your episodes and hear from some of
the other guests that you have so Thank you for
joining us today. Don't forget to subscribe.
Don't forget to share five stars to the podcast
wherever you're listening to it. Hope you have
a lovely week and I'll see you next Sunday. Bye.