WEBVTT

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Hi Kerrie, I'm so happy to have you in the podcast.

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I'm not going to waste a single minute and just

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give you the floor to let you introduce yourself.

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Hi Keri, I'm so happy to have you in the podcast.

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I'm not going to waste a single minute and just

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give you the floor to let you introduce yourself.

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Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm so

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excited we get to do this. It's such a novel

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idea and nice to be able to talk to people from

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different generations and hopefully help people

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but my name is Kerrie Leonard. I have a couple

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of titles maybe. I am a Paralympian. I've represented

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Ireland at the Tokyo and Paris Paralympics and

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my sport is archery and recently retired from

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international archery this summer. And then beyond

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that professionally, I've worked in US tech companies

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for the last number of years. I have a master's

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in marketing and I also was raised on a farm.

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So that has a very distinct impact on your life.

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If you know, you know. And I cannot wait for

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us to deep dive. But right before that, can you

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please share with us your definition of success?

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That is a great question. And that is a really

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big question. I know it is. I think we chase

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success a lot. You know, we are constantly looking

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outside of ourselves for validation of success.

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There's that saying, comparison is the thief

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of joy. And I really do believe that. For me,

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success is more about contentment. I do set big

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goals at the start of a year, but it's more guidelines

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for myself rather than actual serious things

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to stick to. I'm surrounded by a lot of... people

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with high performance mentality. And if you're

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trying to live up to the, that expectation of

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success, you're never going to get there. You're

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never going to be happy. I do not to be naive,

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but I do have that mindset and I do have jealousy

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of other people when they're succeeding. But

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for me, I never want someone else not to receive

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their success. So I think jealousy is a really

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important emotion because it drives me to be

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better. But for me, success is actually contentment.

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And that's more of a feeling rather than a result.

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Oh, you mentioned so many great points already.

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I would love for you to just share a little bit

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more about something you said. Most of us, a

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lot of us are seeking external validation. How

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does someone work on this, move away from waiting

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for the external validation, for the external

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recognition? I think that's come with age. I

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don't think I'm that old, but it has come with

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age. How do I sort of explain this? So my definition

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of success, usually, or realization of success,

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usually comes out of quite negative of things

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so you know when I was a good example of this

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when I did my master's I live in an area of Ireland

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that if you don't leave the house at a certain

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time of the day you will be stuck in the traffic

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for hours on end so I would leave the house very

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early in the morning to get into university I

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do a few hours in the morning and then at the

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end of the day, I would stay on for a number

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of hours so that I could I wasn't sitting in

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traffic and I wasn't wasting my time. And a couple

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of months in, my stress level was rising and,

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you know, it was getting to a bit of a breaking

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point. And I realized, well. You arrive here

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two hours before the day starts. You leave two

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hours after the day ends. So this course is designed

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to make you fail. And it's designed to put you

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under pressure to get the best results out of

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you. So when I realized that, it meant that.

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At the end of the day, if my work wasn't completed,

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I could be content with leaving it where it was

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and picking it up the next morning and starting

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again. And that took a lot of pressure off the

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last six months of my master's degree. Similarly,

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when I went to work US multinational firm during

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COVID, you had a situation. where we're working

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from home, work creeps into your personal time.

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And I'm sure it's the same if you're in school,

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you know, you, and you're coming into exams,

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you never feel like there's enough time of the

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day. And I certainly felt like I wanted to make

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an impact. And I put myself under a lot of pressure

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in that role. But again, a few months in, and

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that anxiety was rising again. And I had to ask

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myself the question, look, you start at 9am,

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you finish at 6pm, you don't really take breaks,

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but you're not succeeding in completing the work.

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So your place can only be so full and you need

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to be okay with it not being finished at the

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end of the day. That's not necessarily what your

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manager wants to hear or your directors or...

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your teachers or whoever it is but there has

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to come a certain point where you have to know

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fundamentally know that you have done as much

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as you can and any external pressure coming in

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is not going to change that so I know it's a

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really long way of answering it but I really

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do stop myself I really have a very direct conversation

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with myself in times of pressure. And I ask myself

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directly, are you doing everything that you possibly

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can here? Have you left any stone unturned? And

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if the answer is yes, I'm doing everything I

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can. I know there's nothing else I can do. Then

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I have to be happy that that's where I am in

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life. other pressure is just going to bring me

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down and ultimately harm my mental health and

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actually the quality of the work that I do. Let

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me suggest you a four -step strategy, more or

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less following what Kerry just advised you. So

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here you are. You're facing a very difficult

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situation, a challenging situation, you name

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it. First, analyze it. This is what's happening.

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My internal expectation or X, Y, Z. The external

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expectation or X, Y, Z. The second thing is you

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start strategizing. This is your time you have.

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This is what you can do for learning and then

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for training. This is what you can do. Then you

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divide exactly what you need to do by block or

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by steps. Whether you need to learn, whether

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you need to train, whether you need to practice.

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And then the third step is you looking back.

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You're recognizing that you did everything you

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could. That nothing else could have been done.

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And then the last step would be practicing self

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-talk. Telling yourself things like, I did my

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best. I managed what was in my control. I'm ready.

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We are sharing this with you, but it's incredibly

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difficult. And so the idea here is that it's

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not a solution that anyone can just adopt and

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that's going to work. But here, we're just inviting

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you to try it. And potentially from there, you'll

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find better solutions that work for you. Okay,

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now let's chat about... your early teenage life

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can you tell us how you were your interests your

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passions how you were doing in class your favorite

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classes and least favorite one yeah of course

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i probably am a little bit strange in that i

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have a disability i'm in a wheelchair i a lot

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of people i would say when they have their disability

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they're born with their disability or they acquire

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their disability And that's typically, I see

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a lot of people in their older teens or early

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twenties who acquire their disability. I acquired

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my disability when I was six and from six to

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about 12, you're learning all these lessons and

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you're adapting to what life looks like. But

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then when you hit 12 or 13, And I think earlier

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nowadays, but at the time, I was probably a little

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bit more insulated. But your peers start to notice

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differences and they start to also create alliances

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or they start to map out what the world looks

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like and how they should behave in that world,

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their role in that world. So I found my early

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teens that I was bullied and then I isolated

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myself. The friend groups that I thought I had

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weren't really there, weren't really as strong

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as I needed them to be. And rather than facing

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it, I moved schools. I went to a different school

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than my... people I went to primary school with.

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And then even at that, you know, I had been,

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I'd been nervous about making connections. Then

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when I did, I found that I was, they were weak

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connections. So I found that I was losing them

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and it just created this, this unfortunate environment

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for me. to deal with. And I was different because

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I was in a wheelchair. So a lot of different

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emotions happening at the same time. So I decided

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to treat school as a temporary situation. And

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I decided to keep my head down and just try to

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get through it as quickly as possible. Now, two

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things happened. So when I was 16, I had an operation

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and I received flowers and cards from the people

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I had been in school with initially. And I looked

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at the cards and I, you know, not that I was

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conscious of any anger or anything towards these

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children, but I remember receiving the cards

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thinking, well, why is that person sending me

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a card? Because they... Word particularly nice

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to me when I was growing up. And I realized that

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we all live in our own world and we all think

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that we're the topic of conversation when actually

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nobody cares about you in the nicest possible

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way. But everyone's so worried about themselves.

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No one cares about you. So when I was in hospital

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and I was. processing these cards, I realized

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actually the only person who's holding on to

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these memories and the only person who's affected

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by these memories is myself. And don't ask me

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how, but my brain just had this epiphany to let

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it go. So let the anger go, let the emotion go,

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because the only person it was affecting was

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me. Looking back, I personally don't know how

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I made that decision. And I know as a teenager,

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people hold on to a lot of anger. So I wouldn't

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blame anyone else for rejecting that advice.

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But for some reason, I had an epiphany and the

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weight lifted off me. So that was kind of the

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shedding that piece. And then when I was... 17,

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I suddenly walked into school one day and there

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was a surprise birthday for me, which was very

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sweet and a little bit shocking because this

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new group of people, I did not let them in at

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all, which led to another epiphany, which was

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people will either like you or hate you. And

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there's nothing you can really do. But limiting

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who you are to protect yourself and not being

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your true self actually, again, only affects

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you because there's haters and there's everybody

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else. The haters are still going to hate you.

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So just be yourself is kind of the 50 I had from

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that experience. So they're just two. kind of

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school stories that I think are relevant in this

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conversation. Thank you so much for sharing,

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Kerry. And if you're facing similar situations

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wherever you are, let's learn from her own experience

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now that she's looking back at it. So first,

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I think her learnings are explaining you how

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you don't have to carry that weight. It's inviting

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you to let go. Because first, people only care

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about themselves. So whatever you're doing, thinking

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about what you said, how people are thinking

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about it, just imagine that people are doing

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the same thing with their own words. And the

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second thing is also reminded about the things

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that you can control and the things you can't

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control. So when Kerrie was saying people will

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either hate you or like you, those things you

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can't control. So just be yourself. Again, this

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is extremely difficult, but just try it. Kerry,

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you did mention that you decided to leave the

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school. Can you think about any other way for

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someone who's facing similar challenges to make

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it through that time when they have already tried

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so many different ways? They've talked to teachers,

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they've talked to anyone who's part of the structure,

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who's technically supposed to help them. So there's

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a couple of things. So it was easy for me to

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recognize what was happening in terms of bullying.

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Even if me understanding what was happening wasn't

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a nice experience. But I was in a very small

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school, very local school. There was 12 people

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in my class. It was tiny. A religious school.

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And so I witnessed two other people get bullied

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before me. One person who was not the same religion.

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And they left the school and then someone who

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was on the larger side and they left the school.

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So by the time it came to me, I realized, oh,

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this is only happening because I physically have

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a difference. So I understood why I was being

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targeted as opposed to, you know, being completely

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confused by that. Then the ability to change

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schools was easy. because it was going into secondary

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school or into high school, my parents would

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not let me leave until I'd finished school completely.

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So it was easier for me to move to a different

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school. With hindsight, the only thing I can

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say on getting through it was you have to just

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get through, unfortunately. I realized when I

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got to university that my differences and my

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view on the world created a tribe because in

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secondary school, we're all trying to fit in.

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We all wear a uniform. We all are modeled to

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be the same. people and if you are not then um

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it's the weakest herd member so you're targeted

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when you get to university then you do find that

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group and I had this recently with um with a

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family member of mine who had a difficult time

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in secondary school moved into university and

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was still struggling And I said, oh, you look,

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I've been there. You will find your group of

00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:56.500
weirdos in university. Just just believe you'll

00:18:56.500 --> 00:19:02.200
be fine. And it took him, I would say, nine months.

00:19:02.299 --> 00:19:09.380
But now he has a very strong friend group and

00:19:09.380 --> 00:19:14.029
they're you know, they are together. as much

00:19:14.029 --> 00:19:20.289
as possible so it does get better and it's so

00:19:20.289 --> 00:19:24.230
cliched and it's like people who are having a

00:19:24.230 --> 00:19:26.890
hard time the last thing they want to hear is

00:19:26.890 --> 00:19:34.250
it gets better but it does you just have to You

00:19:34.250 --> 00:19:36.950
just have to suck it up and get through it. And

00:19:36.950 --> 00:19:40.269
I know we don't use that language nowadays. We

00:19:40.269 --> 00:19:42.650
don't tell people to suck it up. It's not sensitive.

00:19:42.809 --> 00:19:47.490
But the only way I can say this is to be as direct

00:19:47.490 --> 00:19:51.289
as possible, that if you are someone who is going

00:19:51.289 --> 00:19:56.569
through a hard time and you're really contemplating

00:19:56.569 --> 00:20:01.809
what you do and whether your life is worth it,

00:20:02.299 --> 00:20:06.660
The world is so much, has so much less color

00:20:06.660 --> 00:20:11.500
in it when people choose to not be here anymore.

00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:15.700
And so I would never want someone to feel like

00:20:15.700 --> 00:20:19.059
they're never going to get through their situation.

00:20:20.359 --> 00:20:23.980
Teenagers think the world is going to end on

00:20:23.980 --> 00:20:29.619
the smallest issue that seems so big at the time

00:20:29.619 --> 00:20:35.890
I know. But you look back and realize I got through

00:20:35.890 --> 00:20:39.730
it and it made me tougher. And I think people

00:20:39.730 --> 00:20:44.549
just need to know that. Just tough it out. It's

00:20:44.549 --> 00:20:48.349
more important that you stay here with us than

00:20:48.349 --> 00:20:53.670
choose to do something that we can't take back.

00:20:54.789 --> 00:21:00.069
You are only getting stronger. It will take time.

00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:05.720
but you'll make it through. Kerrie, do you have

00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:10.059
any last advice on this? It depends on the context.

00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:17.980
So if you are in school or in work and worked

00:21:17.980 --> 00:21:21.880
on a project or you've made a decision and the

00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:28.089
results or it's not what you expected and Or

00:21:28.089 --> 00:21:29.829
you're worried that it's not going to be what

00:21:29.829 --> 00:21:31.690
you expected and you're worried that everyone

00:21:31.690 --> 00:21:35.970
is going to find out. People don't mind you making

00:21:35.970 --> 00:21:39.670
mistakes as long as you don't continuously make

00:21:39.670 --> 00:21:42.809
the same mistakes over and over again. So people

00:21:42.809 --> 00:21:46.509
do forgive mistakes. That's the first thing.

00:21:48.630 --> 00:21:54.589
Secondly, one day in the grand scheme of your

00:21:54.589 --> 00:21:59.160
life is a very, very small percentage. So it's

00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:02.140
just one day to get through and move on to the

00:22:02.140 --> 00:22:11.180
next. But yeah, fundamentally, if you do something

00:22:11.180 --> 00:22:13.039
like this, if you do a podcast with somebody,

00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:19.140
most of the time people are not focusing on...

00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:22.299
what anyone else is saying they're listening

00:22:22.299 --> 00:22:26.000
back to hear their own voice and to think did

00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:28.480
I answer that question correctly oh my god me

00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:35.440
me me me me me me um so your to you your problems

00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:42.339
are amplified 10 50 times but most people don't

00:22:42.339 --> 00:22:45.559
even recognize the mistakes and most people aren't

00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:49.779
actually paying attention to you because they're

00:22:49.779 --> 00:22:53.380
also having the same thoughts as you about themselves.

00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:58.539
They absolutely are. And consistently about anything

00:22:58.539 --> 00:23:01.500
that happened throughout the day. Yes. And the

00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:03.759
other thing, now that we're talking about this,

00:23:03.900 --> 00:23:09.500
is I grew up in a time that I spent my childhood

00:23:09.500 --> 00:23:12.200
without the internet, but I spent my teenage

00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:15.619
years and my now adult life with the internet.

00:23:17.660 --> 00:23:23.940
Which... you know, lasts forever. So I personally

00:23:23.940 --> 00:23:27.980
like to do things that don't live on the internet.

00:23:28.099 --> 00:23:32.160
So doing something just for myself or with other

00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:37.720
people and not posting about it. So even if you,

00:23:37.819 --> 00:23:40.980
you know, you said something entirely wrong or

00:23:40.980 --> 00:23:44.960
did something entirely wrong, not that it will

00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:48.730
come back to haunt you, but I know You just keep

00:23:48.730 --> 00:23:50.990
replaying videos over and over again and go,

00:23:51.049 --> 00:23:53.750
oh my God, why did I say that? Why did I do that?

00:23:54.910 --> 00:24:00.589
Oh God, that's, whereas in the moments where

00:24:00.589 --> 00:24:03.990
I just hang out with my friends and I just live

00:24:03.990 --> 00:24:09.890
offline, I get to have fun and not have to worry

00:24:09.890 --> 00:24:18.440
about things haunting me. We also just, the psychology

00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:23.660
or the biology psychology of a teenager is you

00:24:23.660 --> 00:24:29.819
feel things you know so intensely that when you

00:24:29.819 --> 00:24:36.039
get a one piece of criticism it you know even

00:24:36.039 --> 00:24:40.099
if you had 10 positive comments that one piece

00:24:40.099 --> 00:24:44.460
of criticism cuts so deeply for people that they

00:24:44.460 --> 00:24:50.029
can't they I we can't process it because it just

00:24:50.029 --> 00:24:53.470
seems so targeted. It is extremely difficult.

00:24:53.549 --> 00:24:56.750
So what would be your advice to help someone

00:24:56.750 --> 00:25:01.009
manage those, to distance yourself from those

00:25:01.009 --> 00:25:07.190
criticisms that hurt so much? I think my comparison

00:25:07.190 --> 00:25:10.890
is going to be a bit strange here, but I have

00:25:10.890 --> 00:25:16.890
a friend who is going through um a medical issue

00:25:16.890 --> 00:25:19.630
at the moment a very hard time oh i'm so sorry

00:25:19.630 --> 00:25:24.589
and they sent me a message today saying i googled

00:25:24.589 --> 00:25:30.269
it oh god and they don't get results of their

00:25:30.269 --> 00:25:33.710
diagnosis for three weeks and i want get off

00:25:33.710 --> 00:25:37.930
the internet until your doctor rings you do not

00:25:37.930 --> 00:25:45.900
do not look at anything because um you go to

00:25:45.900 --> 00:25:50.480
the most, to the darkest places when that happens.

00:25:50.859 --> 00:25:54.960
And if we compare it to somebody who is going

00:25:54.960 --> 00:26:00.259
through a hard time online, feels like they're

00:26:00.259 --> 00:26:05.539
being bullied, if you go on the internet in those

00:26:05.539 --> 00:26:08.759
moments, that will validate that you are being

00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:12.440
bullied as opposed to getting off the internet.

00:26:13.210 --> 00:26:16.589
And going back to what I said earlier, which

00:26:16.589 --> 00:26:20.809
is having a really direct conversation with yourself

00:26:20.809 --> 00:26:25.589
and going, hang on, do I like me? Because that's

00:26:25.589 --> 00:26:30.089
the only voice that matters. Do I like myself?

00:26:31.470 --> 00:26:33.789
This is such a powerful question, Kerry. Thank

00:26:33.789 --> 00:26:37.289
you so much. And I think it connects to self

00:26:37.289 --> 00:26:41.009
-talk, which is something we'll talk about very,

00:26:41.109 --> 00:26:44.779
very soon. And to wrap up on your teenage years,

00:26:44.859 --> 00:26:47.519
can you tell us a little bit more about how your

00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:50.099
classes went, how your grades went, how your

00:26:50.099 --> 00:26:55.279
exams went? Yeah, so when I did my final exams,

00:26:55.380 --> 00:27:01.619
my back or my leaving certificate in Ireland,

00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:09.920
I had an operation just before on the back that

00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:13.299
we were talking about. And so when it came to

00:27:13.299 --> 00:27:17.059
sitting my final exams, I actually couldn't because

00:27:17.059 --> 00:27:19.819
I was in so much pain. I hadn't actually taken

00:27:19.819 --> 00:27:23.559
that into consideration. So I pushed myself to

00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:27.599
do well, but it wasn't realistic because I wasn't

00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:30.980
in a position to study. I wasn't taking it seriously.

00:27:31.859 --> 00:27:36.700
But when I got the results of those exams, I

00:27:36.700 --> 00:27:40.119
wasn't happy with them. And so I decided to repeat.

00:27:40.700 --> 00:27:46.880
And so I did my final year again, which people,

00:27:46.940 --> 00:27:50.500
when you're trying to make that decision, a lot

00:27:50.500 --> 00:27:55.680
of people unhealthily criticize. Right. And say,

00:27:55.779 --> 00:27:57.680
oh, I could never do that again. I couldn't go

00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:01.920
through that again. Oh, you make this, or I made

00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:05.880
this decision on my own with people telling me,

00:28:05.980 --> 00:28:09.500
don't do that. Take another route, you know.

00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:13.359
But I committed and I decided to redo the exams.

00:28:14.599 --> 00:28:18.720
Then once you actually make that decision, the

00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:21.460
number of people who came and said, oh, I also

00:28:21.460 --> 00:28:24.900
did that. Where were you when I was trying to

00:28:24.900 --> 00:28:27.519
make that decision? When I thought I was completely

00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:30.539
on my own, could you not have been around to

00:28:30.539 --> 00:28:35.380
maybe give me a thumbs up and say, yeah, you

00:28:35.380 --> 00:28:37.180
know what, you're making the right decision.

00:28:37.660 --> 00:28:41.730
Right. So I did that and I improved my exam results.

00:28:42.309 --> 00:28:46.230
I did not want to go into university because

00:28:46.230 --> 00:28:53.230
I was so exhausted by the exams. My grandmother

00:28:53.230 --> 00:29:01.309
was having a panic attack because she... I mean

00:29:01.309 --> 00:29:07.119
that figuratively, I should say. She... She didn't

00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:10.779
have a formal education, so she wanted her grandchildren

00:29:10.779 --> 00:29:15.259
to have a formal education. I'm also the firstborn

00:29:15.259 --> 00:29:19.019
grandchild on both sides, so there is quite a

00:29:19.019 --> 00:29:22.220
lot of pressure on me to do the right things

00:29:22.220 --> 00:29:26.140
and make the right decisions. Sending strength

00:29:26.140 --> 00:29:30.799
to all the eldest daughters out there. So I went

00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:34.980
to university because she wanted me to do...

00:29:35.259 --> 00:29:40.400
a degree um she has my degree because it was

00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:44.059
not for me i handed it over to her and i said

00:29:44.059 --> 00:29:53.960
enjoy um and then i when i graduated it was a

00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:57.339
business degree with equine studies involved

00:29:57.339 --> 00:30:01.700
because my family are involved in the equestrian

00:30:01.700 --> 00:30:05.440
world and i thought let's study something that

00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:10.700
i know and then i'm more likely to get by in

00:30:10.700 --> 00:30:16.019
the exams but again the same lessons kept recurring

00:30:16.019 --> 00:30:21.519
that happened in school um i got very high a's

00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:25.279
in certain subjects and then passed other subjects

00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:33.029
and when i graduated i decided to try and qualify

00:30:33.029 --> 00:30:36.289
for the Rio Paralympics, which is a bit of a

00:30:36.289 --> 00:30:38.049
leap because we haven't talked about that yet.

00:30:38.390 --> 00:30:45.769
But it was the summer of 2015 and it just made

00:30:45.769 --> 00:30:49.730
sense that I'm finishing university. I have this

00:30:49.730 --> 00:30:52.529
opportunity to try and qualify for Rio. And if

00:30:52.529 --> 00:30:55.589
it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, then I

00:30:55.589 --> 00:30:59.309
can move on. It didn't happen and I couldn't

00:30:59.309 --> 00:31:04.130
move on. decided to try again and qualify for

00:31:04.130 --> 00:31:09.990
the games. And then at that stage, this gets

00:31:09.990 --> 00:31:12.109
a little bit more complicated. So at that point

00:31:12.109 --> 00:31:16.089
in 2016, at the end of 2016, when I realized

00:31:16.089 --> 00:31:20.170
I hadn't qualified for Rio, I also realized that

00:31:20.170 --> 00:31:23.170
I wasn't eligible for a lot of the graduate positions

00:31:23.170 --> 00:31:26.529
because it had been over a year since I completed

00:31:26.529 --> 00:31:29.190
university. That's actually a great call out.

00:31:30.539 --> 00:31:33.380
If you've never heard of graduate programs, it's

00:31:33.380 --> 00:31:35.859
your time to start looking into them. So they

00:31:35.859 --> 00:31:39.039
are usually offered by large companies for recent

00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:43.099
graduates. So as Kerry underlined here, your

00:31:43.099 --> 00:31:47.519
graduation year needs to be under a year. You'll

00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:49.980
have to look into that. But there are great opportunities

00:31:49.980 --> 00:31:53.480
for three reasons. First, they're looking for

00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:57.299
people who don't have a lot of experience. Second

00:31:57.299 --> 00:32:00.960
thing is it's paid. And the third and most important

00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:04.380
thing is it gives you opportunities to learn

00:32:04.380 --> 00:32:07.440
about different roles within a company. So even

00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:10.740
if you're completely lost as we speak, it gives

00:32:10.740 --> 00:32:14.619
you the chance to build skills, discover jobs

00:32:14.619 --> 00:32:17.579
you've never heard of sometime, and most importantly,

00:32:17.779 --> 00:32:20.619
learn from people who are there. So asking questions,

00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:23.640
getting to understand what their day -to -day

00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:27.420
is and what they like about the job. So I went

00:32:27.420 --> 00:32:31.380
into a work environment and I was there for a

00:32:31.380 --> 00:32:35.859
year and a half. But it was a very slow progression.

00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:40.299
It was somewhere that promotions came every decade.

00:32:41.259 --> 00:32:45.079
Every decade? Very slow to get anywhere in the

00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:48.259
company. And so I sat with this idea of, well,

00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:54.720
how do I move? How do I move my life in a certain

00:32:54.720 --> 00:33:02.849
way to... speed it up and i wasn't in the company

00:33:02.849 --> 00:33:07.849
long enough to be able to prove to another company

00:33:07.849 --> 00:33:13.450
to hire me um i just i knew all the roles that

00:33:13.450 --> 00:33:15.869
i could apply for weren't going to get me anywhere

00:33:15.869 --> 00:33:20.710
and i decided to then apply for a master's program

00:33:20.710 --> 00:33:25.299
to reset the clock And make me a graduate again.

00:33:26.099 --> 00:33:32.339
And that's what I chose to do. Before we deep

00:33:32.339 --> 00:33:34.559
dive into your professional life, I just would

00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:37.420
love to talk about repeating. Repeating years.

00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:42.299
I'm quite biased. I'm definitely actually biased.

00:33:42.980 --> 00:33:46.480
My take on repeating is that it should not be

00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:51.980
taboo. If a teacher, someone from the school

00:33:51.980 --> 00:33:56.869
system. is strongly advising you, your children,

00:33:57.130 --> 00:34:01.910
to repeat. Seize the opportunity. See it as an

00:34:01.910 --> 00:34:07.170
opportunity. Why? The first reason is that the

00:34:07.170 --> 00:34:12.190
people I know who repeated have actually never

00:34:12.190 --> 00:34:16.369
been happier in terms of finding exactly who

00:34:16.369 --> 00:34:20.630
they are, being extremely driven as soon as they

00:34:20.630 --> 00:34:25.190
got into higher education and now now they are

00:34:25.190 --> 00:34:28.869
actually are doing the jobs of their dreams in

00:34:28.869 --> 00:34:34.329
locations of their dreams and today the class

00:34:34.329 --> 00:34:37.429
they repeated they don't even think about it

00:34:37.429 --> 00:34:40.610
they don't even think that they lost a year they

00:34:40.610 --> 00:34:46.010
just remember that now everything was meant to

00:34:46.010 --> 00:34:49.869
be and everything found them and you know what

00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:53.940
When you repeat, you get a chance to discover

00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:59.219
the classes one more time. You know exactly what

00:34:59.219 --> 00:35:01.199
you like. You know exactly what you dislike.

00:35:01.460 --> 00:35:06.480
So it probably is getting you closer to your

00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:13.039
future interests. So parents, your children will

00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:18.559
be fine. And the thing is, so we look at adults

00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:20.940
and we think they have their shit. together i

00:35:20.940 --> 00:35:23.000
don't know what the policy is i'm cursing here

00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:26.239
sorry it's more than okay and then as teenagers

00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:29.980
even if an adult so i don't know if i'm gonna

00:35:29.980 --> 00:35:31.880
be listened to but even if an adult tells their

00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:36.199
story um we don't listen as teenagers because

00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:40.219
you you can't relate to me i have no idea what

00:35:40.219 --> 00:35:42.420
you're talking about so we don't even listen

00:35:42.420 --> 00:35:49.190
to their lessons really um but yet we want to

00:35:49.190 --> 00:35:56.889
form this path of a plus b equals c um so we

00:35:56.889 --> 00:35:59.090
don't really listen to what's going on we are

00:35:59.090 --> 00:36:02.909
very much we see and we want what we see on tv

00:36:02.909 --> 00:36:11.190
or in cinema or whatever it is and i just had

00:36:11.190 --> 00:36:15.070
those realizations you know i i made the decision

00:36:15.070 --> 00:36:19.289
myself to repeat and felt very alone and felt

00:36:19.289 --> 00:36:21.809
like I was actually I'm going to be so far behind

00:36:21.809 --> 00:36:24.070
that was the biggest issue that was the biggest

00:36:24.070 --> 00:36:28.409
reason not to do it because I was going to be

00:36:28.409 --> 00:36:31.630
behind and I was losing and I'm even in this

00:36:31.630 --> 00:36:33.449
situation right now where I feel the same way

00:36:33.449 --> 00:36:38.429
again um but I decided to repeat and then people

00:36:38.429 --> 00:36:40.690
came out of the woodwork and said oh yeah we

00:36:40.690 --> 00:36:46.349
did too then I finished my degree and I ran into

00:36:46.349 --> 00:36:51.440
somebody from school and i said oh how are you

00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:53.900
doing hadn't seen them in four or five years

00:36:53.900 --> 00:36:59.179
and they said oh i'm good um i'm starting another

00:36:59.179 --> 00:37:03.019
university degree because i dropped out so then

00:37:03.019 --> 00:37:08.860
you realize oh they are now quote unquote restarting

00:37:08.860 --> 00:37:14.219
five years later so in theory they're five years

00:37:14.219 --> 00:37:18.769
behind I'm doing okay. And again, I'm starting

00:37:18.769 --> 00:37:22.570
to compare myself to other people. But then I

00:37:22.570 --> 00:37:26.949
take a journey where I, you know, face a setback

00:37:26.949 --> 00:37:31.690
and it starts again. So everyone is on their

00:37:31.690 --> 00:37:36.590
own journey. And the timeline is very different

00:37:36.590 --> 00:37:40.289
for everybody. Absolutely. But we're all trying

00:37:40.289 --> 00:37:43.670
to get to a place ultimately where we're happy.

00:37:44.230 --> 00:37:48.469
And where we're content. And the biggest risk

00:37:48.469 --> 00:37:55.369
is deciding to take the decision. But actually,

00:37:55.449 --> 00:37:59.750
the sooner we make that decision, the quicker

00:37:59.750 --> 00:38:04.050
we can get to our happy. That's what I've learned

00:38:04.050 --> 00:38:07.050
over the years. And this is a fantastic takeaway.

00:38:07.489 --> 00:38:10.989
Think about it. You're getting closer to where

00:38:10.989 --> 00:38:14.809
you need to be. So trust the process. If you

00:38:14.809 --> 00:38:20.369
need to repeat, you'll get to better days. You're

00:38:20.369 --> 00:38:22.730
only getting smarter. You're only getting more

00:38:22.730 --> 00:38:26.889
confident. Yeah. And the best is yet to come.

00:38:27.309 --> 00:38:30.389
Absolutely. And I think, again, on that, even

00:38:30.389 --> 00:38:34.550
something as simple as when you do your final

00:38:34.550 --> 00:38:36.610
exams, your A -levels, your leaving certificate,

00:38:36.829 --> 00:38:41.800
your BAC, your SATs, you've maybe have never

00:38:41.800 --> 00:38:44.639
experienced that environment before, especially

00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:48.260
if you were, maybe we're a little bit too late

00:38:48.260 --> 00:38:53.139
now because COVID was five years ago, but even

00:38:53.139 --> 00:38:58.219
being put into an exam hall and having to sit

00:38:58.219 --> 00:39:01.980
and do these exams, you could have performance

00:39:01.980 --> 00:39:07.280
anxiety and completely quote unquote fail the

00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:11.820
exams. That was the thing for me, not the performance

00:39:11.820 --> 00:39:16.079
anxiety piece, but there were options. I didn't

00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:19.980
need to repeat. I could do a course before going

00:39:19.980 --> 00:39:22.659
into university. These were all these options

00:39:22.659 --> 00:39:26.400
that were available to me. And I knew as soon

00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:29.679
as I opened my results that morning that I was

00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:34.099
going to repeat because I wasn't happy with those

00:39:34.099 --> 00:39:37.900
results in that environment. And I needed. to

00:39:37.900 --> 00:39:40.719
redo them or i would regret that for many many

00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:44.320
years so that's why i took that decision but

00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:46.699
there again there are lots of options that people

00:39:46.699 --> 00:39:51.000
don't want to do what i did you'll do fine you'll

00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:54.840
be fine everything is going to be okay and if

00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:57.820
one day you're thinking about being late running

00:39:57.820 --> 00:40:00.719
late because everyone is moving to the next stage

00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:05.659
in the next stage running late for what Do you

00:40:05.659 --> 00:40:08.960
know exactly what you want to do? And if you

00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:11.940
know, that's incredible. It means that you have

00:40:11.940 --> 00:40:14.739
a direction. And if you don't, then you have

00:40:14.739 --> 00:40:17.360
time. You have time to think about the things

00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:20.579
you want. And again, a kind reminder, because

00:40:20.579 --> 00:40:23.300
seeing the people around me who repeated themselves,

00:40:23.780 --> 00:40:27.480
things found them. Because everything that is

00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:31.920
meant for you will find you. Exactly. And we

00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:36.329
talked about this before. interview but um that

00:40:36.329 --> 00:40:39.610
irish saying of oh yes yes yes we absolutely

00:40:39.610 --> 00:40:44.369
need what's for you won't pass you that is basically

00:40:44.369 --> 00:40:47.170
wraps up exactly what you just said there everyone

00:40:47.170 --> 00:40:50.409
should leave by that saying right on the wall

00:40:50.409 --> 00:40:53.670
absolutely this is your takeaway you need to

00:40:53.670 --> 00:40:59.070
get that framed somewhere oh and tell us now

00:40:59.070 --> 00:41:01.730
about your higher education why you made that

00:41:01.730 --> 00:41:05.880
choice why not another one What guided you? Yeah,

00:41:05.900 --> 00:41:10.360
so I originally wanted to do film and broadcasting

00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:14.139
with French. Oh, this is incredible. And there

00:41:14.139 --> 00:41:18.300
were reasons I wanted to do that. So I had done

00:41:18.300 --> 00:41:21.440
my final exams and I repeated my final exams

00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:25.760
and I didn't want to be in a very academic course.

00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:28.440
I wanted to do something that I loved and I loved

00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:36.079
film. I love film. And I also really enjoy conversational

00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:39.900
French. I'm not very good at it. So I did a year

00:41:39.900 --> 00:41:42.760
of that actually in university and then I dropped

00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:45.440
out. So we didn't talk about this, but to add

00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:48.039
on to everything, I did drop out of university.

00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:51.460
I'm one of those statistics. Which is absolutely

00:41:51.460 --> 00:41:54.940
fine. So again, my grandmother was having, was

00:41:54.940 --> 00:42:01.190
very stressed about me choosing to leave. So

00:42:01.190 --> 00:42:03.690
while I was trying to make up my decision about

00:42:03.690 --> 00:42:09.550
what I would do next was the summer of 2012 with

00:42:09.550 --> 00:42:14.710
the Olympics in London. So I had dropped out

00:42:14.710 --> 00:42:21.050
in October, I think, and I was trying to decide

00:42:21.050 --> 00:42:24.909
what I would do next. So I applied for a role

00:42:24.909 --> 00:42:29.730
with London 2012. I got the role. I went and

00:42:29.730 --> 00:42:32.489
lived in London for a couple of months and I

00:42:32.489 --> 00:42:37.789
really wanted to just continue working at large

00:42:37.789 --> 00:42:41.230
events and go to the next games and the next

00:42:41.230 --> 00:42:44.349
games and the next games. But the pressure from

00:42:44.349 --> 00:42:48.289
my grandmother, I came home and went into my

00:42:48.289 --> 00:42:53.090
business degree for a couple of reasons in Maynooth

00:42:53.090 --> 00:42:57.559
University. And it was... National University

00:42:57.559 --> 00:43:00.599
of Ireland, Maynooth at the time. They've changed

00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:05.840
over to Maynooth University now. And I chose

00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:08.539
to do that because it was a business degree.

00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:12.739
A lot of the degrees in Maynooth are arts degrees.

00:43:13.260 --> 00:43:20.199
And before our final exams in school, it's the

00:43:20.199 --> 00:43:23.579
most ridiculous thing ever. But our head teacher,

00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:30.119
brought us all into a hall into a room and told

00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:32.699
us that we applied for an arts degree we were

00:43:32.699 --> 00:43:36.119
failing our parents oh wow which is horrific

00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:41.840
i do not endorse that message whatsoever i i'm

00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:47.099
yeah it was very very bad um so it just stuck

00:43:47.099 --> 00:43:53.719
with me so when i saw that the particular degree

00:43:53.719 --> 00:43:57.340
that i did was a business degree that was my

00:43:57.340 --> 00:44:01.820
reason for choosing it and then also the fact

00:44:01.820 --> 00:44:06.139
that i knew something a lot about um equine um

00:44:06.139 --> 00:44:10.119
so that helped um and then through the course

00:44:10.119 --> 00:44:15.769
of that um again i'm a practical learner so I

00:44:15.769 --> 00:44:19.050
applied that in real world situations and that

00:44:19.050 --> 00:44:22.469
helped me a lot throughout that degree, which

00:44:22.469 --> 00:44:28.230
was great. Then when I went back for my master's

00:44:28.230 --> 00:44:33.670
program, one of the big reasons I chose to...

00:44:33.670 --> 00:44:39.010
Oh, sorry, just to circle back. The big reason

00:44:39.010 --> 00:44:43.730
I dropped out of the film studies was... And

00:44:43.730 --> 00:44:46.730
it wasn't practical. It was academic. It was

00:44:46.730 --> 00:44:51.050
very theoretical and very book heavy. And I wasn't

00:44:51.050 --> 00:44:53.769
that strong. I didn't consume a lot of books.

00:44:54.550 --> 00:44:58.030
I'm better now. Again, I've realized that about

00:44:58.030 --> 00:45:01.949
myself. Particular interests, I will eat them.

00:45:02.050 --> 00:45:05.750
But at the time, the idea of just sitting down

00:45:05.750 --> 00:45:10.090
and reading thick volumes of books just stressed

00:45:10.090 --> 00:45:11.889
me out. So that's the reason I left, because

00:45:11.889 --> 00:45:14.730
it was too academic for me. At the time, I was

00:45:14.730 --> 00:45:18.909
very burnt out. And so when I was making my decision

00:45:18.909 --> 00:45:25.369
about my master's program, it was working, it

00:45:25.369 --> 00:45:29.050
was applying the theory in practice. So we worked

00:45:29.050 --> 00:45:33.429
directly with major companies, multinational

00:45:33.429 --> 00:45:39.480
projects, and were commissioned. to work with

00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:42.980
those companies. So it was a far more practical

00:45:42.980 --> 00:45:48.920
approach. And also there was a lot of guardrails.

00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:52.099
So I had to be in at 9am. I wasn't allowed to

00:45:52.099 --> 00:45:55.500
leave until 5pm. You had to study, like work

00:45:55.500 --> 00:45:59.460
your ass off versus being in three days a week

00:45:59.460 --> 00:46:03.940
and doing, you know, a few hours and then be

00:46:03.940 --> 00:46:08.780
expected to go off and study on your own. I don't

00:46:08.780 --> 00:46:11.260
have that discipline. I think no one would have

00:46:11.260 --> 00:46:14.219
believed that a national champion and Paralympian

00:46:14.219 --> 00:46:17.199
would share this kind of statements, right? But

00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:20.300
we're all humans after all. We do need structure.

00:46:20.559 --> 00:46:24.960
I shouldn't put this on tape, but if I have a

00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:28.639
deadline, I'm great. But if you want me to go

00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:32.920
off and just to study, I struggle with that a

00:46:32.920 --> 00:46:35.760
little bit. So that was the best of both worlds.

00:46:35.940 --> 00:46:40.110
I was able to... get a degree, a master's, work

00:46:40.110 --> 00:46:44.489
with brands, apply the theory in the real world,

00:46:44.590 --> 00:46:48.710
and then ultimately get into a better job than

00:46:48.710 --> 00:46:53.110
the one I had been in when I left, when I made

00:46:53.110 --> 00:46:54.869
the decision to leave. So it all worked out.

00:46:55.130 --> 00:46:57.769
Thank you so much for sharing, Kerry. And I think

00:46:57.769 --> 00:47:03.050
you shared something incredibly important. You

00:47:03.050 --> 00:47:07.099
know, you said that you dropped out. of your

00:47:07.099 --> 00:47:11.300
first choice because everything was too academic

00:47:11.300 --> 00:47:14.900
and that you're more practical person if you're

00:47:14.900 --> 00:47:17.559
listening and you don't know if you're more academic

00:47:17.559 --> 00:47:20.579
or practical if you're still looking into it

00:47:20.579 --> 00:47:24.900
and now you have to choose where you need to

00:47:24.900 --> 00:47:28.699
go and you don't know anyone studying what you

00:47:28.699 --> 00:47:33.679
want to study you have two options so the first

00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:37.639
thing you can do is simply Email or call the

00:47:37.639 --> 00:47:41.119
university, the head of the programs, teachers

00:47:41.119 --> 00:47:46.679
in that program. What you can ask is, you can

00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:49.800
ask about the structure of the classes. If it's

00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:52.679
not clear enough on their website, you can try

00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:55.780
to understand and ask them if it's going to be

00:47:55.780 --> 00:47:59.760
more academic, more practical, so that the expectations

00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:03.460
are clearer for you. Because then you will know

00:48:03.460 --> 00:48:07.500
if you're going to succeed there if you're going

00:48:07.500 --> 00:48:11.699
to enjoy the program itself. And the second option

00:48:11.699 --> 00:48:16.179
you have is to go on LinkedIn and start looking

00:48:16.179 --> 00:48:18.820
into the people who have studied within that

00:48:18.820 --> 00:48:22.480
program and ask them what they did, how they

00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:26.320
felt, what they loved, what they disliked, and

00:48:26.320 --> 00:48:29.920
anything else you would love to know. And trust

00:48:29.920 --> 00:48:32.820
me, most of them are going to be super happy

00:48:32.820 --> 00:48:36.030
to answer your questions. And don't be scared

00:48:36.030 --> 00:48:38.769
about getting ghosted. It's okay. If they don't

00:48:38.769 --> 00:48:41.289
answer, go to the next person, go to the next

00:48:41.289 --> 00:48:45.349
person. There are hundreds of them. Just to add

00:48:45.349 --> 00:48:51.250
on is you could ask universities if you can sit

00:48:51.250 --> 00:48:54.610
in on some classes too. So then you have an insight,

00:48:54.730 --> 00:48:58.110
actually, what do those classes look like? And

00:48:58.110 --> 00:48:59.949
then the other practical advice I would give,

00:49:00.170 --> 00:49:03.739
not... in terms of what your extracurricular

00:49:03.739 --> 00:49:07.519
activities are in university but if you know

00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:11.619
the timetable if you only have one class on a

00:49:11.619 --> 00:49:15.760
certain day the like the likelihood that you'll

00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:19.619
go in for that one class if you are that is the

00:49:19.619 --> 00:49:21.719
first thing in the morning or last thing in the

00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:26.860
evening is very low so just again from a practical

00:49:26.860 --> 00:49:29.280
point of view try to build out your classes so

00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:32.639
that you can make the most out of the day oh

00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:35.000
this is such a brilliant advice if you can go

00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:39.179
on campus and try to get into one of those classes

00:49:39.179 --> 00:49:42.739
just imagine it i think it will be incredible

00:49:42.739 --> 00:49:46.460
because it would give you even more drive even

00:49:46.460 --> 00:49:49.420
more purpose if you're currently struggling in

00:49:49.420 --> 00:49:52.219
high school struggling within the classes and

00:49:52.219 --> 00:49:55.820
seeing what the future holds can give you this

00:49:55.820 --> 00:50:00.969
tiny push Everyone has probably been listening

00:50:00.969 --> 00:50:05.369
because of how excited they are to learn about

00:50:05.369 --> 00:50:08.849
your journey, your Paralympian National Athlete

00:50:08.849 --> 00:50:11.530
journey. So I'll just give you the floor to tell

00:50:11.530 --> 00:50:14.670
us everything about it, how it started, when

00:50:14.670 --> 00:50:18.230
it started and everything else from there. So

00:50:18.230 --> 00:50:22.369
I started maybe around the same time as I was

00:50:22.369 --> 00:50:25.889
leaving primary school. My uncle knew somebody

00:50:25.889 --> 00:50:29.139
who was in a wheelchair. who did archery and

00:50:29.139 --> 00:50:32.280
asked me if I wanted to meet them. So I did.

00:50:32.679 --> 00:50:36.539
And I, you know, I learned to do archery as a

00:50:36.539 --> 00:50:43.280
six week course. And then I went to boarding

00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:48.800
school. So I stopped doing archery. And I didn't

00:50:48.800 --> 00:50:53.360
return until university, really. There were some

00:50:53.360 --> 00:50:57.420
moments of maybe coming back, maybe not. not

00:50:57.420 --> 00:51:04.320
realistically and I returned only because I went

00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:09.119
to a clubs and societies day in university and

00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:13.519
somebody I knew from that very first archery

00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:17.659
encounter recognized me and asked me to sign

00:51:17.659 --> 00:51:22.599
up to the club so that the more names that they

00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:25.199
had signed up the more funding they got from

00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:28.179
the university and that was the only reason that

00:51:28.179 --> 00:51:30.679
they asked me to sign up and because they knew

00:51:30.679 --> 00:51:35.340
me they could kind of track me so that was absolutely

00:51:35.340 --> 00:51:42.400
fine when i dropped out of university i had didn't

00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:45.420
really have any social outlet because i hadn't

00:51:45.420 --> 00:51:50.159
built those social structures we talked about

00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:52.300
the secondary school stuff i hadn't actually

00:51:52.300 --> 00:51:54.860
built up a base of friend group at that point

00:51:54.860 --> 00:51:59.000
and I had done a year in university where I was

00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:02.800
not settling in very well so I didn't really

00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:07.159
have a social um outlet so I decided to just

00:52:07.159 --> 00:52:11.219
continue going to the archery club because it

00:52:11.219 --> 00:52:14.300
was a way to stay connected with people and a

00:52:14.300 --> 00:52:17.139
way to have accountability that I would have

00:52:17.139 --> 00:52:20.880
to show up to to the club every week and while

00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:25.349
this was happening um the coach of the national

00:52:25.349 --> 00:52:32.269
team heard that I was actually training. And

00:52:32.269 --> 00:52:35.650
archers in Ireland are a very small bunch of

00:52:35.650 --> 00:52:40.170
people. We don't have a lot of them. So he approached

00:52:40.170 --> 00:52:43.389
me with an opportunity to go to a competition

00:52:43.389 --> 00:52:49.670
in the UK. And that was in 2012, actually, just

00:52:49.670 --> 00:52:54.099
before the London Games. So it was just an invitation

00:52:54.099 --> 00:52:59.800
for countries to be acclimatized before London,

00:53:00.019 --> 00:53:02.659
but it was an open competition. So because everything

00:53:02.659 --> 00:53:06.380
was paid for, I didn't really have an excuse.

00:53:07.099 --> 00:53:12.579
And I said, yeah, I'll go. No problem. And when

00:53:12.579 --> 00:53:15.219
I got there, it was the first time I'd seen that

00:53:15.219 --> 00:53:18.280
number of people with disabilities before. I

00:53:18.280 --> 00:53:21.000
grew up on a farm. I don't know a lot of people

00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:24.880
with disabilities. which was a little bit jarring

00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:28.320
to see so many people with disabilities, but

00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:32.420
quite interesting. And a lot of time when you're

00:53:32.420 --> 00:53:35.159
on your own at home, whatever you're doing in

00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:37.920
your bubble, you think that you're not good enough

00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:44.340
to aspire to international or, you know, to be

00:53:44.340 --> 00:53:49.000
the top of whatever you're doing. So when I went

00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:52.579
to this competition and I didn't, performed particularly

00:53:52.579 --> 00:53:56.980
well but I realized oh I could actually get good

00:53:56.980 --> 00:54:02.500
at this or at least be competitive at this and

00:54:02.500 --> 00:54:08.760
so um that kind of lit something in me and I

00:54:08.760 --> 00:54:12.460
went when I finished the competition then I went

00:54:12.460 --> 00:54:15.780
to London to work for the Olympics and Paralympics

00:54:15.780 --> 00:54:19.280
and I didn't have any ambitions at that stage

00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:22.679
to do the Paralympics But we did joke in the

00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:26.559
office about wouldn't it be funny that you're

00:54:26.559 --> 00:54:29.320
working at the London Olympics and Paralympics

00:54:29.320 --> 00:54:33.280
if you were in Rio? Wouldn't that be just a real

00:54:33.280 --> 00:54:37.500
full circle moment? Interesting. I dismissed

00:54:37.500 --> 00:54:40.099
it for sure. It wasn't really something that

00:54:40.099 --> 00:54:46.960
I had considered. But like I said, I was invited

00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:49.880
to go. Or asked to go to the European Championships

00:54:49.880 --> 00:54:55.500
in 2014. And I wanted to try again at an international

00:54:55.500 --> 00:54:59.300
competition. And it was terrible. My results

00:54:59.300 --> 00:55:03.519
were so bad. Just really, really bad. There were

00:55:03.519 --> 00:55:05.619
things outside of my control, I will say. There

00:55:05.619 --> 00:55:07.920
was a lot of rule changes that I wasn't aware

00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:11.500
of. And so I had to change everything at that

00:55:11.500 --> 00:55:14.800
competition. So it was a disaster. And I was

00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:19.019
really embarrassed. And again, similar to my

00:55:19.019 --> 00:55:22.619
leaving certificate results, I didn't want that

00:55:22.619 --> 00:55:28.320
to be my legacy or whatever you want to call

00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:31.639
it. Yeah, of course. So because I was so embarrassed

00:55:31.639 --> 00:55:36.360
by my results, I wanted to go to the world championships

00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:39.420
the next year, which was when I was graduating

00:55:39.420 --> 00:55:42.679
from university. And I didn't have any ambition

00:55:42.679 --> 00:55:46.179
because... It was so bad at the Europeans that

00:55:46.179 --> 00:55:50.800
I thought, just do a better score and be happy

00:55:50.800 --> 00:55:52.679
with it. And while I was at that competition,

00:55:52.960 --> 00:56:01.000
the qualifying position for Rio was eighth and

00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:06.480
I finished ninth. No way. So suddenly I go, oh

00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:09.820
my God, I could have qualified for the Rio Paralympics.

00:56:10.219 --> 00:56:13.519
I was really, really close. So going from having

00:56:13.519 --> 00:56:18.000
no ambition whatsoever to suddenly, hang on,

00:56:18.059 --> 00:56:21.539
the timing is really good here because I graduated.

00:56:22.079 --> 00:56:26.780
I don't have a job. I don't have demands on me

00:56:26.780 --> 00:56:30.500
to go back to something. Let's focus on qualifying

00:56:30.500 --> 00:56:34.300
for the Games. So then I went to the European

00:56:34.300 --> 00:56:37.559
Championships and I needed to finish first and

00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:41.639
I finished second. No. And then I went to the

00:56:41.639 --> 00:56:44.300
final qualifier and I needed to finish top three

00:56:44.300 --> 00:56:49.340
and I finished seventh. So all very, very close.

00:56:49.719 --> 00:56:52.619
So close. And it was a little bit devastating

00:56:52.619 --> 00:56:58.300
not getting there. And then realizing, well,

00:56:58.420 --> 00:57:02.039
I don't have Rio. I don't have a job. I have

00:57:02.039 --> 00:57:06.159
no plan. I don't know what's happening. And asking

00:57:06.159 --> 00:57:11.059
myself the question, will I try again? Should

00:57:11.059 --> 00:57:14.880
I try again? And I thought about it for the summer

00:57:14.880 --> 00:57:18.760
because it was so close. But because it was so

00:57:18.760 --> 00:57:22.559
close, it was so hard as well to pick myself

00:57:22.559 --> 00:57:26.900
up again. But the question I always ask myself

00:57:26.900 --> 00:57:35.400
is, is this going to be harder to try again versus

00:57:35.400 --> 00:57:40.960
will I regret in 50 years time? if I didn't try

00:57:40.960 --> 00:57:47.840
and the regret would have been bigger than trying

00:57:47.840 --> 00:57:54.900
so then I decided okay we are going to qualify

00:57:54.900 --> 00:57:58.619
for Tokyo we're going to make it happen um and

00:57:58.619 --> 00:58:02.940
I became comfortable with that decision and then

00:58:02.940 --> 00:58:07.320
I had to watch Rio on the television and relive

00:58:07.320 --> 00:58:12.260
the devastation again of not being there and

00:58:12.260 --> 00:58:15.239
then I went to a competition the following year

00:58:15.239 --> 00:58:19.960
and my competitors were all sitting around the

00:58:19.960 --> 00:58:22.920
table and they said Kerry do you remember in

00:58:22.920 --> 00:58:27.639
Rio when x y and z happened and I said well no

00:58:27.639 --> 00:58:31.420
I don't because I wasn't there and they go no

00:58:31.420 --> 00:58:33.659
no you definitely remember remember we were doing

00:58:33.659 --> 00:58:36.139
this and I go I'm gonna have to stop you again

00:58:36.139 --> 00:58:41.449
because I wasn't there as much as you would like

00:58:41.449 --> 00:58:46.590
to think I was I I definitely wasn't um which

00:58:46.590 --> 00:58:49.829
you know is you just have to kind of laugh at

00:58:49.829 --> 00:58:53.150
it at that stage and just put your head down

00:58:53.150 --> 00:58:56.829
and then I yeah I decided to qualify for Tokyo

00:58:56.829 --> 00:59:02.829
while also doing my master's so that I actually

00:59:02.829 --> 00:59:05.010
again talking about being prepared or knowing

00:59:05.010 --> 00:59:09.900
what's happening with university courses I actually

00:59:09.900 --> 00:59:12.679
made the decision to do that master's thinking

00:59:12.679 --> 00:59:17.920
it would only be three days a week and I'll be

00:59:17.920 --> 00:59:21.760
able to train for the rest of the week. When

00:59:21.760 --> 00:59:25.639
I actually got on the course and realized it

00:59:25.639 --> 00:59:30.099
was a five day a week program, nine to six, then

00:59:30.099 --> 00:59:35.309
I realized, ah, that's. that's not going to work

00:59:35.309 --> 00:59:39.250
quite as easily as I would like it to. But then

00:59:39.250 --> 00:59:42.010
I discovered psychology and it actually was a

00:59:42.010 --> 00:59:45.869
good balance. So not being able to physically

00:59:45.869 --> 00:59:51.869
train meant that I, my psychology work became

00:59:51.869 --> 00:59:59.750
a lot stronger and resiliency kind of tools were

00:59:59.750 --> 01:00:03.469
a lot easier to create by doing that. Where do

01:00:03.469 --> 01:00:08.750
we get up to? I won't even go into COVID because

01:00:08.750 --> 01:00:12.170
that's just not very stressful because it did

01:00:12.170 --> 01:00:15.769
delay Tokyo by a year. So I could get, I could

01:00:15.769 --> 01:00:17.489
go into a lot of detail, but we're not going

01:00:17.489 --> 01:00:21.690
to do that. But I ultimately qualified for the

01:00:21.690 --> 01:00:25.170
Tokyo Paralympics and I finished ninth at the

01:00:25.170 --> 01:00:31.000
Tokyo Paralympics. I cannot wait to talk about

01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:35.119
the psychology piece. I'll just take a step back

01:00:35.119 --> 01:00:39.380
and talk about the clubs you were joined. You

01:00:39.380 --> 01:00:42.760
who are listening, please do consider joining

01:00:42.760 --> 01:00:45.860
a club, whatever it is. If you have an interest

01:00:45.860 --> 01:00:49.460
in anything and you discover there is a club

01:00:49.460 --> 01:00:53.679
about it, that there is a club created to gather

01:00:53.679 --> 01:00:57.119
people who like it, just imagine joining those

01:00:57.119 --> 01:01:00.280
people who have similar interests in you. You're

01:01:00.280 --> 01:01:04.139
going to build your little community of like

01:01:04.139 --> 01:01:07.860
-minded humans. It's actually a segue to my question

01:01:07.860 --> 01:01:12.579
to you, Kerry. You mentioned the 2012 opportunity

01:01:12.579 --> 01:01:16.219
to go to the UK. I know that some people tend

01:01:16.219 --> 01:01:20.440
to be a little bit more... cautious about taking

01:01:20.440 --> 01:01:25.659
risks how can we empower people to take a little

01:01:25.659 --> 01:01:30.000
bit more risk to be more willing to seize those

01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:32.579
opportunity when it's outside of their comfort

01:01:32.579 --> 01:01:36.780
zone how can they make the most of things yes

01:01:36.780 --> 01:01:40.039
i can give you the my answer and then i can give

01:01:40.039 --> 01:01:44.079
you the psychology answer too so for me i do

01:01:44.079 --> 01:01:46.860
it for the plush this is amazing absolutely unexpected

01:01:47.679 --> 01:01:51.179
I say yes because what's the worst that could

01:01:51.179 --> 01:01:53.760
happen? And also I'll get a really cool story

01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:56.559
out of it potentially or a disaster and then

01:01:56.559 --> 01:02:03.440
I can spin it into a cool story. So for me, I've

01:02:03.440 --> 01:02:10.039
done the personality tests and all those kind

01:02:10.039 --> 01:02:13.340
of things over in different environments. And

01:02:13.340 --> 01:02:16.659
I am someone who feels the fear and does it anyway.

01:02:17.119 --> 01:02:23.139
It's just, it's how I'm hardwired. But I have

01:02:23.139 --> 01:02:25.900
a good psychology answer for this too, for people

01:02:25.900 --> 01:02:33.460
who are having that debate. So I was in my last

01:02:33.460 --> 01:02:37.719
role and I was interviewing for a company and

01:02:37.719 --> 01:02:41.539
I didn't, they were a startup company and I was

01:02:41.539 --> 01:02:45.679
very burnt out. And I knew if I went into a startup,

01:02:46.639 --> 01:02:51.059
i would not have any time to breathe at all and

01:02:51.059 --> 01:02:55.480
also their solution really wasn't something i

01:02:55.480 --> 01:02:58.260
thought would succeed so people were saying well

01:02:58.260 --> 01:02:59.920
you know it's not going to succeed but just take

01:02:59.920 --> 01:03:03.460
the money just go and work until it it fails

01:03:03.460 --> 01:03:07.159
so no i don't really want to um i don't want

01:03:07.159 --> 01:03:09.500
i don't want to burn myself out even further

01:03:09.500 --> 01:03:13.380
so i'd made up this in my mind and i went to

01:03:13.380 --> 01:03:16.860
see my psychologist for just a casual conversation

01:03:16.860 --> 01:03:20.440
it wasn't a session and i was telling her this

01:03:20.440 --> 01:03:24.780
um and she said i think you should go for the

01:03:24.780 --> 01:03:26.719
job i think i think you should go for the job

01:03:26.719 --> 01:03:31.760
right explain that one to me please give me a

01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:37.019
bit more detail because your brain is put is

01:03:37.019 --> 01:03:43.280
doing fight or flight on you so it's creating

01:03:44.219 --> 01:03:49.940
all of these disaster scenarios to make you think

01:03:49.940 --> 01:03:54.639
it's a wrong opportunity and make you flee. So

01:03:54.639 --> 01:03:58.539
rather than staying and picking that job, you

01:03:58.539 --> 01:04:04.480
are choosing to run away from it because you're

01:04:04.480 --> 01:04:08.400
creating all of these disaster scenarios. It's

01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:12.989
like, okay, yeah, I can see that goes. You just

01:04:12.989 --> 01:04:16.570
are afraid to say yes and lean into the opportunity.

01:04:17.949 --> 01:04:22.449
So I went away from that conversation and I thought,

01:04:22.590 --> 01:04:24.949
OK, actually, that's a good way of looking at

01:04:24.949 --> 01:04:30.630
things. So look at every decision you make. And

01:04:30.630 --> 01:04:34.949
when you're leaning one direction or the other,

01:04:34.989 --> 01:04:40.269
yes or no, add an extra question to that, which

01:04:40.269 --> 01:04:45.010
is. Are you planning for a disaster? Are you

01:04:45.010 --> 01:04:50.289
creating problems that don't exist? Because,

01:04:50.389 --> 01:04:55.690
again, it's another saying, but the devil you

01:04:55.690 --> 01:04:58.690
know is better than the devil you don't. So it's

01:04:58.690 --> 01:05:01.969
easier to stay in one bad situation rather than

01:05:01.969 --> 01:05:04.929
going into a new opportunity that you don't know.

01:05:05.969 --> 01:05:12.949
So it creates all of these. scenarios and makes

01:05:12.949 --> 01:05:15.349
you think oh I can't do that because it's going

01:05:15.349 --> 01:05:20.909
to be a disaster now ultimately I took that question

01:05:20.909 --> 01:05:24.829
and applied it to that opportunity and I said

01:05:24.829 --> 01:05:32.829
okay am I doing this here am I creating a scenario

01:05:32.829 --> 01:05:37.849
that is not as bad as I think it is and I really

01:05:37.849 --> 01:05:42.860
did make it a logical decision and said, actually,

01:05:43.039 --> 01:05:48.460
no, there are enough clearly, logically wrong

01:05:48.460 --> 01:05:51.940
things about this decision for me to say no.

01:05:53.059 --> 01:05:56.119
But I'm going to take that piece of advice and

01:05:56.119 --> 01:06:00.340
apply it to every opportunity going forward to

01:06:00.340 --> 01:06:07.739
say, is this a real tsunami or a little flood?

01:06:08.300 --> 01:06:12.659
Or a little bit of rain. And I think that's been

01:06:12.659 --> 01:06:15.199
really helpful to apply to my decision making

01:06:15.199 --> 01:06:19.519
over the last couple of years. Okay. Listen to

01:06:19.519 --> 01:06:24.539
this again. Are you creating a scenario that

01:06:24.539 --> 01:06:29.639
is not as bad as you think it is? And you know

01:06:29.639 --> 01:06:32.940
what? This is such an important question to ask

01:06:32.940 --> 01:06:35.940
yourself. You're first, obviously, empowering

01:06:35.940 --> 01:06:41.210
yourself. The thing is, it prevents you from

01:06:41.210 --> 01:06:45.909
going to different people and asking them what

01:06:45.909 --> 01:06:50.070
they think. You know what? They will think first

01:06:50.070 --> 01:06:54.590
potentially different things, but also some of

01:06:54.590 --> 01:06:59.489
them will be highly, highly influenced by their

01:06:59.489 --> 01:07:04.389
own ongoing lives. Some of them will tell you

01:07:04.389 --> 01:07:08.309
what makes sense. because of what they've lived,

01:07:08.489 --> 01:07:15.949
what they are living, or their fears. Your growth

01:07:15.949 --> 01:07:21.110
has been incredibly inspiring, Kerry, and I have

01:07:21.110 --> 01:07:25.309
a big question for you. As you were getting closer

01:07:25.309 --> 01:07:30.090
and closer to the podiums, you gradually built

01:07:30.090 --> 01:07:32.670
this confidence within you to tell yourself,

01:07:32.989 --> 01:07:37.030
oh, I can get there. I can represent my country.

01:07:37.170 --> 01:07:41.829
So my question to you here is, how do you work

01:07:41.829 --> 01:07:46.570
on that? How do you tell yourself, yes, I can

01:07:46.570 --> 01:07:49.570
represent my country? It's probably harder for

01:07:49.570 --> 01:07:55.030
females than it is for men, I would say. You

01:07:55.030 --> 01:07:59.110
need someone in your corner that tells you you

01:07:59.110 --> 01:08:07.030
can a lot of the times. lack the confidence we

01:08:07.030 --> 01:08:11.670
need someone else to tell us we can or hold us

01:08:11.670 --> 01:08:19.189
accountable for for doing it as well um i think

01:08:19.189 --> 01:08:22.770
a lot of times we have i've been doing a lot

01:08:22.770 --> 01:08:26.930
of work in women in sports leadership over the

01:08:26.930 --> 01:08:32.130
last couple of years and we tend to find the

01:08:32.130 --> 01:08:37.670
best people to help us our male allies so you

01:08:37.670 --> 01:08:42.949
have men who bring women along on the journey

01:08:42.949 --> 01:08:47.010
and you know give them that confidence or not

01:08:47.010 --> 01:08:49.189
even give them the confidence but give them the

01:08:49.189 --> 01:08:55.149
space so they open doors to let you in um that's

01:08:55.149 --> 01:08:58.329
very helpful and certainly i've had male coaches

01:08:58.329 --> 01:09:01.909
so that's been they're the people who have told

01:09:01.909 --> 01:09:07.069
me i can do it I think now we do need women to

01:09:07.069 --> 01:09:11.949
also be those allies too. Not that they're not,

01:09:12.210 --> 01:09:18.569
but again, even when women get into spaces, they're

01:09:18.569 --> 01:09:20.829
worried about losing the space. So they keep

01:09:20.829 --> 01:09:24.529
quiet and try to keep to themselves, not even

01:09:24.529 --> 01:09:27.710
thinking about it. But that's one thing. I've

01:09:27.710 --> 01:09:31.890
had external people who've said, you can do this,

01:09:31.909 --> 01:09:36.819
you know? and have helped me to map out what

01:09:36.819 --> 01:09:42.340
that looks like. But I think the real answer,

01:09:42.500 --> 01:09:45.659
give you lots of big answers, but the real answer

01:09:45.659 --> 01:09:55.020
is I failed at it. So I know how to do it because

01:09:55.020 --> 01:09:58.920
I failed at it. I know, I knew the steps I needed

01:09:58.920 --> 01:10:01.779
to take. Because I didn't take the right steps

01:10:01.779 --> 01:10:08.800
the first time. And it does take, you don't have

01:10:08.800 --> 01:10:11.140
to bounce back straight away, but you do have

01:10:11.140 --> 01:10:18.619
to be resilient enough to try again. And yeah,

01:10:18.680 --> 01:10:24.439
so it seems like I got to the games. I did get

01:10:24.439 --> 01:10:26.779
to the games, but it's only because I failed

01:10:26.779 --> 01:10:29.680
at getting to the games. So when it came again,

01:10:29.939 --> 01:10:33.699
I knew who to speak to. I knew what the deadlines

01:10:33.699 --> 01:10:38.140
were. I knew what I needed to do in order to

01:10:38.140 --> 01:10:42.880
qualify. You talked about being more resilient

01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:47.939
and trying things again. How does someone become

01:10:47.939 --> 01:10:52.039
more resilient? Oh, that's a very big question.

01:10:53.880 --> 01:11:01.050
Yeah, it's hard. You know, people look to sports

01:11:01.050 --> 01:11:04.909
people a lot to talk about resiliency and not

01:11:04.909 --> 01:11:07.329
every day is going to be a walk in the park.

01:11:07.449 --> 01:11:10.930
I think I also, you know, I have a disability,

01:11:10.949 --> 01:11:15.029
so I have a disability, which in itself is challenging.

01:11:15.409 --> 01:11:19.430
And then you do a sport, which is also challenging.

01:11:19.590 --> 01:11:25.250
So for me, you fail big the first time and then

01:11:25.250 --> 01:11:30.220
you fail. kind of smaller and smaller the key

01:11:30.220 --> 01:11:35.439
though is not to get okay no I'll tell I'll tell

01:11:35.439 --> 01:11:38.220
the story first before I get into that but I

01:11:38.220 --> 01:11:42.319
once had a talk um gave a talk very intimate

01:11:42.319 --> 01:11:44.720
talk like we're having talking about resiliency

01:11:44.720 --> 01:11:51.699
and the interviewer said to me you know the first

01:11:51.699 --> 01:11:57.300
time that she had failed she was 27 or 28 And

01:11:57.300 --> 01:12:01.500
really failed. And she couldn't get out of bed

01:12:01.500 --> 01:12:05.500
for two weeks or however long it was. She just

01:12:05.500 --> 01:12:11.140
was so devastated by a failure because she had

01:12:11.140 --> 01:12:17.060
never built out those tools to begin with. Which

01:12:17.060 --> 01:12:21.239
was extremely interesting to have this conversation

01:12:21.239 --> 01:12:26.989
with someone who, you know, envied. resiliency

01:12:26.989 --> 01:12:30.670
while I'm listening to her empathizing with her

01:12:30.670 --> 01:12:35.909
and thinking you don't you you personally do

01:12:35.909 --> 01:12:39.609
not want other people to build up those those

01:12:39.609 --> 01:12:42.869
tools for resiliency because it means they went

01:12:42.869 --> 01:12:48.590
through a really really hard time but in doing

01:12:48.590 --> 01:12:52.390
that and making yourself uncomfortable and challenging

01:12:52.390 --> 01:12:57.380
yourself the rewards are that much sweeter, colorful,

01:12:57.600 --> 01:13:06.119
nicer. So again, failing or not living up to

01:13:06.119 --> 01:13:15.460
your expectations, reframing that as, okay, when

01:13:15.460 --> 01:13:18.260
I eventually, and you'll hear this from a lot

01:13:18.260 --> 01:13:21.979
of sports people, but when I get that medal or

01:13:21.979 --> 01:13:26.350
when, I finished that race or when I do that,

01:13:26.510 --> 01:13:32.189
I'll know I've earned it. And you can build those

01:13:32.189 --> 01:13:37.210
skills out in your daily life and just go, you

01:13:37.210 --> 01:13:41.810
know, every step I'm taking on this journey to

01:13:41.810 --> 01:13:47.229
get to where I want to go is important and might

01:13:47.229 --> 01:13:51.609
be hard, but it will teach me those lessons along

01:13:51.609 --> 01:13:58.109
the way. And so the crux of what I'm saying is

01:13:58.109 --> 01:14:08.210
fail. Fail again. And not to carry shame about

01:14:08.210 --> 01:14:13.729
that failure, because you're building up your

01:14:13.729 --> 01:14:18.909
survival instincts. And the more you do that

01:14:18.909 --> 01:14:24.210
in small ways, when... a big disaster happens

01:14:24.210 --> 01:14:28.369
you'll be able to cope with it not that we want

01:14:28.369 --> 01:14:32.329
any big disasters to happen we don't but who

01:14:32.329 --> 01:14:36.130
knows what the future holds so seize opportunities

01:14:36.130 --> 01:14:41.590
to fail seize opportunities to learn when you

01:14:41.590 --> 01:14:45.449
told us about the competition when you started

01:14:45.449 --> 01:14:50.579
that you almost got selected that you almost

01:14:50.579 --> 01:14:54.359
got there that you touched it but also that they

01:14:54.359 --> 01:14:57.600
were difficult moments how do you pick yourself

01:14:57.600 --> 01:15:05.720
up i think again not to get too spiritual in

01:15:05.720 --> 01:15:11.239
the universe but going back it probably is what

01:15:11.239 --> 01:15:15.720
we talked about earlier so i have this saying

01:15:15.720 --> 01:15:20.220
that I carry with me. It's not a famous saying.

01:15:20.319 --> 01:15:27.760
I think I, I created it myself, but I see, I

01:15:27.760 --> 01:15:32.159
do have some depression and I do deal with a

01:15:32.159 --> 01:15:35.939
lot of hardships. And my way of describing it

01:15:35.939 --> 01:15:39.840
to other people is that it's like standing on

01:15:39.840 --> 01:15:44.079
the coastline in the middle of a storm and these

01:15:44.079 --> 01:15:46.939
way, and you can't move, but these waves are,

01:15:47.350 --> 01:15:49.710
kind of flowing over you and pounding you and

01:15:49.710 --> 01:15:54.689
pounding you and pounding you. And if you wait

01:15:54.689 --> 01:15:58.270
long enough, the storm breaks and everything

01:15:58.270 --> 01:16:00.489
is calm again, if you just wait long enough.

01:16:01.010 --> 01:16:09.090
So when I dropped out of university and I didn't

01:16:09.090 --> 01:16:11.569
know what I was going to do, and it was really

01:16:11.569 --> 01:16:20.229
a very scary time of my life. no idea how to

01:16:20.229 --> 01:16:26.590
pick myself up and move on. And archery was just

01:16:26.590 --> 01:16:32.930
something to sort of tide me over mentally. But

01:16:32.930 --> 01:16:39.789
once I got the job in London at the Games, so

01:16:39.789 --> 01:16:43.949
I went to the competition, I did okay, but I

01:16:43.949 --> 01:16:46.970
could see myself. doing well in that environment

01:16:46.970 --> 01:16:52.310
and then I went to London and I've been feeling

01:16:52.310 --> 01:16:56.630
so worthless about myself because I repeated

01:16:56.630 --> 01:17:00.529
my final year I dropped out of university I now

01:17:00.529 --> 01:17:07.109
had to start again and I hadn't worked in hadn't

01:17:07.109 --> 01:17:11.289
been in university or worked in nine months you

01:17:11.289 --> 01:17:13.350
know all these things were happening and I really

01:17:14.279 --> 01:17:17.720
was being battered by this storm. And then I

01:17:17.720 --> 01:17:21.239
went to the London Games and it was the best

01:17:21.239 --> 01:17:23.920
work experience of my life. The people I was

01:17:23.920 --> 01:17:28.920
surrounded with were amazing. The event itself,

01:17:29.239 --> 01:17:32.260
everyone working together to achieve something

01:17:32.260 --> 01:17:37.779
and the adrenaline of that, and the validation

01:17:37.779 --> 01:17:41.779
I got from doing a really good job in that environment.

01:17:44.270 --> 01:17:50.350
put my confidence very, very high for maybe eight

01:17:50.350 --> 01:17:54.069
or nine months afterwards. So even though I returned

01:17:54.069 --> 01:17:57.710
into an environment that was the same as I'd

01:17:57.710 --> 01:18:01.869
left, my attitude was different and the momentum

01:18:01.869 --> 01:18:07.310
of the games carried me through. And that's happened

01:18:07.310 --> 01:18:13.720
on multiple occasions. When I feel my lowest,

01:18:14.000 --> 01:18:18.500
something comes along. The other thing that happens

01:18:18.500 --> 01:18:25.840
when I repeated my final exams, when I failed

01:18:25.840 --> 01:18:31.760
to qualify for games, when I came back to do

01:18:31.760 --> 01:18:34.819
my final exams again, when I came back to try

01:18:34.819 --> 01:18:41.000
and qualify for Tokyo. People from the most unlikely

01:18:41.000 --> 01:18:46.199
places come to help you because they recognize

01:18:46.199 --> 01:18:51.399
you are trying your best. They recognize how

01:18:51.399 --> 01:18:56.000
much work you're putting in and you need help.

01:18:56.079 --> 01:18:59.579
People like to help people who try. And if it

01:18:59.579 --> 01:19:04.159
looks like you're trying, people inherently want

01:19:04.159 --> 01:19:06.960
to help. And you won't know where that help is

01:19:06.960 --> 01:19:11.850
going to come from. But the universe or people

01:19:11.850 --> 01:19:18.470
step in and show up for you. And that's not very

01:19:18.470 --> 01:19:22.630
practical to tell someone in their teens. But

01:19:22.630 --> 01:19:25.850
don't ask me why. There's something spiritual

01:19:25.850 --> 01:19:31.409
in the world. And when I have been at my breaking

01:19:31.409 --> 01:19:37.810
point or when I've made the decision. Usually

01:19:37.810 --> 01:19:39.210
it's not when I'm trying to make the decision.

01:19:39.390 --> 01:19:42.149
I have to do that hard work myself. But when

01:19:42.149 --> 01:19:46.210
I've made the decision, people come along and

01:19:46.210 --> 01:19:49.390
go, oh yeah, we know you're trying. We want to

01:19:49.390 --> 01:19:53.750
help you. People do want to help people who are

01:19:53.750 --> 01:19:56.569
trying their best. And it goes back to what we

01:19:56.569 --> 01:20:00.170
told you earlier. If you're interested in a bachelor's

01:20:00.170 --> 01:20:03.489
degree, master's program, ask questions to people

01:20:03.489 --> 01:20:05.949
who did those programs. They will be so happy

01:20:05.949 --> 01:20:09.140
to answer your questions. And talking about programs

01:20:09.140 --> 01:20:13.319
and master's degree, you had so many things at

01:20:13.319 --> 01:20:16.960
the same time. How did you juggle everything?

01:20:17.460 --> 01:20:24.300
I don't know. That's the only thing I can say.

01:20:24.380 --> 01:20:30.960
I don't know. Yeah, so, you know, the first qualifier

01:20:30.960 --> 01:20:36.800
was in 2019. I really did focus on the psychology

01:20:36.800 --> 01:20:40.619
and visualization side of things. And whenever

01:20:40.619 --> 01:20:46.680
I had the opportunity to train, I did. And then

01:20:46.680 --> 01:20:48.560
I graduated. I went to the World Championships

01:20:48.560 --> 01:20:54.340
and I came home, graduated. And then I had planned

01:20:54.340 --> 01:20:57.680
to take that year following graduation and qualify

01:20:57.680 --> 01:21:02.100
for Tokyo. COVID happened. Everything was delayed.

01:21:02.960 --> 01:21:07.439
I had been accepted onto a graduate program.

01:21:09.439 --> 01:21:13.880
So I had to start it. So I was working full time

01:21:13.880 --> 01:21:20.119
from home and doing archery. But the problem,

01:21:20.420 --> 01:21:25.460
actually, so that was fine because I find myself

01:21:25.460 --> 01:21:29.159
spiraling again with the amount of work and stress.

01:21:30.139 --> 01:21:34.399
But I went back to the lesson from my master's

01:21:34.399 --> 01:21:41.399
program and said, no, I am being paid from this

01:21:41.399 --> 01:21:47.100
hour to this hour. I'm entitled to a break here.

01:21:49.119 --> 01:21:53.899
Thankfully for me, I have all of my equipment

01:21:53.899 --> 01:21:58.300
at home. So I was able to just go out the door

01:21:58.300 --> 01:22:03.720
and train. But I had to be really, really clear

01:22:03.720 --> 01:22:08.279
with people what my boundaries were because I

01:22:08.279 --> 01:22:14.380
was going to the games. When I came home from

01:22:14.380 --> 01:22:18.659
Tokyo, that kind of got a bit, that got a bit

01:22:18.659 --> 01:22:22.609
out of control because I allowed those boundaries

01:22:22.609 --> 01:22:25.109
to be crossed because I wasn't doing archery

01:22:25.109 --> 01:22:28.170
at the time. I took a break. So work just crept

01:22:28.170 --> 01:22:31.210
into those spaces. And then when I started again

01:22:31.210 --> 01:22:35.409
for Paris, I didn't know what I was doing for

01:22:35.409 --> 01:22:40.829
about a month because how have I lost time? I

01:22:40.829 --> 01:22:42.630
used to be able to do all of this and I'm not

01:22:42.630 --> 01:22:46.010
able to. What's happening here? And I had to

01:22:46.010 --> 01:22:49.829
remind myself, OK, you need to go back to your

01:22:49.829 --> 01:22:53.729
boundaries again. Because you do have time, but

01:22:53.729 --> 01:22:56.130
people are just stealing it from you. And not

01:22:56.130 --> 01:22:57.609
that they're stealing it, you've given it to

01:22:57.609 --> 01:23:01.949
them. So you need to suck it up and put that

01:23:01.949 --> 01:23:08.310
back in place. And then, yeah, I burnt the candle

01:23:08.310 --> 01:23:15.649
at both ends for seven years? No, longer. Oh,

01:23:15.649 --> 01:23:19.619
wow. No, I think it was eight years maybe because

01:23:19.619 --> 01:23:21.439
of the way that everything worked with COVID.

01:23:21.579 --> 01:23:27.720
So yeah, it wasn't pretty, but I knew the sacrifice

01:23:27.720 --> 01:23:32.159
and I didn't want to regret it again if I came

01:23:32.159 --> 01:23:37.880
to the end of Tokyo and I hadn't qualified. Wow.

01:23:38.180 --> 01:23:41.140
I'm quite speechless, honestly. Congratulations

01:23:41.140 --> 01:23:43.920
for making it happen, Kerrie. And you mentioned

01:23:43.920 --> 01:23:47.829
some tools, visualization. Can you tell us a

01:23:47.829 --> 01:23:50.090
little bit more about how you've practiced it

01:23:50.090 --> 01:23:57.229
and how can we adopt them? Yeah. So for me, I

01:23:57.229 --> 01:24:03.829
box breathe. So you inhale for a certain count

01:24:03.829 --> 01:24:07.630
and then you hold the breath and then you exhale

01:24:07.630 --> 01:24:12.329
that breath. And I'll do that while my eyes are

01:24:12.329 --> 01:24:14.630
closed. I'll just go through the process of breathing.

01:24:15.409 --> 01:24:19.380
And then... I will visualize the entire shot

01:24:19.380 --> 01:24:23.199
sequence. So I'll imagine I'm holding the bow.

01:24:23.600 --> 01:24:27.060
I'll imagine the weight of the bow. I can imagine

01:24:27.060 --> 01:24:30.979
it in my hands. And then I go through the process

01:24:30.979 --> 01:24:37.180
of drawing back the arrow, letting it go. You

01:24:37.180 --> 01:24:39.300
visualize the arrow and you visualize the arrow

01:24:39.300 --> 01:24:42.920
hitting the very center of the target. Because

01:24:42.920 --> 01:24:46.090
when you visualize You want to visualize all

01:24:46.090 --> 01:24:51.229
the positives so that your mind automatically

01:24:51.229 --> 01:24:59.550
makes your body execute those things. And yeah,

01:24:59.590 --> 01:25:05.010
you do that over and over again. And then other

01:25:05.010 --> 01:25:08.189
tools, which is not relevant, maybe, well, actually,

01:25:08.210 --> 01:25:12.609
maybe it is for everyone listening, but turning

01:25:12.609 --> 01:25:16.170
off my phone, my work phone. As soon as the workday

01:25:16.170 --> 01:25:18.970
was over, it was put in a drawer and put away.

01:25:19.750 --> 01:25:25.170
For people here who are in exams or in that stage

01:25:25.170 --> 01:25:29.909
of their life, sleep hygiene is really important.

01:25:30.069 --> 01:25:34.050
So not having your phone in the bedroom with

01:25:34.050 --> 01:25:38.430
you, having an alarm clock, a traditional analog

01:25:38.430 --> 01:25:44.319
alarm clock. and being able to switch off because

01:25:44.319 --> 01:25:47.180
our minds just keep running and running and running

01:25:47.180 --> 01:25:50.159
and running and you want your mind and your body

01:25:50.159 --> 01:25:54.239
in the best position it can be. Okay, so give

01:25:54.239 --> 01:25:56.899
it a try. Use those tools whenever you need them

01:25:56.899 --> 01:26:00.859
because they're all backed with research. Even

01:26:00.859 --> 01:26:03.560
the breathing exercise, right? Yeah, you can

01:26:03.560 --> 01:26:08.840
find so much research doing it. It just shuts

01:26:08.840 --> 01:26:15.300
out. the world and it also for me my brain is

01:26:15.300 --> 01:26:20.039
like a hamster on a wheel um but by giving it

01:26:20.039 --> 01:26:24.979
a structure and a process um it can focus on

01:26:24.979 --> 01:26:28.899
that process and it has a roadmap to do that

01:26:28.899 --> 01:26:33.340
rather than sitting in a room and just breathing

01:26:33.340 --> 01:26:36.060
in and out and closing your eyes because the

01:26:36.060 --> 01:26:39.069
mind will just wander off Sometimes that's very

01:26:39.069 --> 01:26:42.550
healthy to do that and just let the brain do

01:26:42.550 --> 01:26:47.829
what it wants to do. But in my case, I was doing

01:26:47.829 --> 01:26:52.170
a specific breathing and visualization exercise.

01:26:52.689 --> 01:26:55.529
Thank you, Kerrie. And we're almost concluding

01:26:55.529 --> 01:26:58.069
this episode. And when you had to prepare for

01:26:58.069 --> 01:27:02.729
Paris 2024, you had to get back to juggling all

01:27:02.729 --> 01:27:05.689
of your responsibilities there. How did it go?

01:27:06.350 --> 01:27:09.510
Yes, I did have to do that. That became a lot

01:27:09.510 --> 01:27:13.550
harder to manage as the world returned to normal,

01:27:13.689 --> 01:27:21.949
I would say. But again, I had a lot of external

01:27:21.949 --> 01:27:26.829
help from people who knew what my challenges

01:27:26.829 --> 01:27:31.689
were and worked with me. So they opened up facilities

01:27:31.689 --> 01:27:34.649
the first thing in the morning while it was still

01:27:34.649 --> 01:27:38.189
dark outside. or last thing in the evening to

01:27:38.189 --> 01:27:42.609
help me achieve what I needed to achieve because

01:27:42.609 --> 01:27:46.869
I laid out what my challenges were and we worked

01:27:46.869 --> 01:27:50.630
together to find a solution. But again, that

01:27:50.630 --> 01:27:55.149
was, I put my hand up, I need help and people

01:27:55.149 --> 01:27:59.529
came to help. This is an amazing reminder because

01:27:59.529 --> 01:28:03.670
you do need to ask for help. We told you quite

01:28:03.670 --> 01:28:07.359
often. We at least told you twice, but keep it

01:28:07.359 --> 01:28:09.500
in mind. And if you don't have people around

01:28:09.500 --> 01:28:12.819
you that can help you directly, go look for information.

01:28:13.300 --> 01:28:18.180
Help yourself until people can help you. Kerry,

01:28:18.260 --> 01:28:22.380
can you share last pieces of advice you have?

01:28:22.460 --> 01:28:28.159
Maybe two or three takeaways? Oh, good question.

01:28:29.199 --> 01:28:34.770
I don't think that any decision is final. I think

01:28:34.770 --> 01:28:38.609
you can make a decision, have the experience,

01:28:38.989 --> 01:28:43.449
take the life lesson and make another decision.

01:28:43.970 --> 01:28:49.010
I think the biggest takeaway though is to make

01:28:49.010 --> 01:28:54.630
a decision. Indecision stops us and makes us

01:28:54.630 --> 01:29:01.569
freeze. It's okay to try and to fail. That is

01:29:01.569 --> 01:29:04.550
a lesson you'll learn and you can take it to

01:29:04.550 --> 01:29:09.130
the next decision you make. So first is make

01:29:09.130 --> 01:29:12.149
a decision, whether it's right or wrong, just

01:29:12.149 --> 01:29:23.029
make the decision. Um, the second is again, really

01:29:23.029 --> 01:29:28.829
you are the center of your universe and everyone

01:29:28.829 --> 01:29:35.640
else is the center of their universes. So You

01:29:35.640 --> 01:29:40.399
can prioritize, one, prioritize your own happiness

01:29:40.399 --> 01:29:46.079
because it's your world. But secondly, you don't

01:29:46.079 --> 01:29:52.439
have to be caught up on how you fit in anybody

01:29:52.439 --> 01:29:56.079
else's world because it won't make any difference

01:29:56.079 --> 01:29:58.020
to anyone else and it won't ultimately make you

01:29:58.020 --> 01:30:04.159
happy. So that's a big deal. Nobody. really is

01:30:04.159 --> 01:30:06.880
paying attention to what you're doing in the

01:30:06.880 --> 01:30:16.899
nicest possible way. And thirdly, you can always

01:30:16.899 --> 01:30:21.000
reinvent yourself. Thank you so much, so, so

01:30:21.000 --> 01:30:23.260
much for everything you shared with us today.

01:30:23.500 --> 01:30:27.119
I learned so much and I have so many notes on

01:30:27.119 --> 01:30:29.979
the side. It was a brilliant episode. Thank you.

01:30:30.619 --> 01:30:35.479
You're welcome. And thank you, thank you for

01:30:35.479 --> 01:30:38.539
joining us today. I really hope you took as many

01:30:38.539 --> 01:30:41.920
notes as I did. And I'll see you next week. And

01:30:41.920 --> 01:30:44.619
in the meantime, don't forget to subscribe, to

01:30:44.619 --> 01:30:48.039
follow, to share, to make this podcast grow.

01:30:48.800 --> 01:30:49.779
See you next week.