Hi, and welcome back to and You, How Did You Make
It? The podcast in which you explore each step
that has built the career path of various individuals
through the discovery of their habits, passions,
and interests over the last few decades. I'm
Yusra, your host, and today we meet Leila. And
there is plenty of things to learn from her between
her life in Italy, Germany, and Ireland. Within
this episode, you will get a chance to realize
that you're not the only one being different
from your surroundings. You're not the only one
being absolutely lost in choosing your higher
education path. But most importantly, anything
you put your mind into, you will achieve. Let's
learn from Leila. Hi Leila and welcome to a new
How Did You Make It? I'm so happy to have you
with us today. I'll just let you introduce yourself.
Thank you so much for having me. Hi to everyone
listening. My name is Leila. I'm Italian and
I live in Milan. where I work in advertising
and marketing at Netflix since nearly a year.
I have Afghan roots. I was born in Switzerland
and I moved a bit growing up. I recently moved
back to Italy after a couple of years abroad.
I was in Germany and in Ireland. And about me,
I love traveling, picking up new languages, writing.
But most of all, I love getting to know new people,
people from different cultures, and just being
surrounded by new things. Thank you, Leda, and
I can't wait to talk more about your curiosity.
You're already sharing with us that you're very
curious about learning about different cultures,
but we'll deep dive into it a bit later. Now,
can you please share with us your definition
of success? That's a great question. I think
success, like whenever you ask me about this,
it might change based on which point of life
I am. But for me, it's like reaching a specific
goal you have. So it's not a big and definite
term that has to guide your life, but it's more
in the smaller daily things. I'm losing hair.
I need to get the right supplements to stop that.
If I manage, that's success for me. I want to
get a specific role in my career. I managed to
achieve that. That's also success. Different
kind of success, but also success. So success
for me changes on a daily and weekly basis. And
success gives you happiness, which it's like
confined also to a specific time for me. Thank
you, Leila. That's such a great reminder. I think
we forget about all the achievements that are
there between your big, big goal and when you
started putting your mind into it. So that is
success, that you're consistently going towards
it, that you're not giving up. So do celebrate
those little moments that are taking you towards
your goal. Leila, let's talk about your teenage
years, early teenage years, more around ages
like 13 to 15. What kind of students were you?
What was your favorite subject? Least favorite
one? How were your grades at the time? Did you
have any passions, any habits? What can you share
with us today? Yeah, thank you for this question.
So it's an interesting one because... At the
age of 12, was it like between age of 11, 12,
I moved from a city to another in Italy. And
even though I was in the same country, I went
from an international school to an Italian school
and to a Catholic private Italian school where
there were priests and nuns. a very white community
and very different from what I was used to before.
What kind of student was I? I was very, I was
not very confident because I couldn't speak Italian
that well back in the days. I had a thick British
accent when I was speaking Italian and my friends,
classmates were very confused at the person he
was and where did I come from and why was I so
different? It just took me some time to adapt
and to understand that we... don't all have the
same background. So it's normal that sometimes
people are just very surprised, especially at
that age. And being the only non -white person
in the school together with my siblings was just
a surprise also for them. So it was also for
them an opportunity for learning new people and
learning about new cultures. Back in the days,
English was my favorite subject just because
I was much better than the others in English.
It was finally, I had my, it was an occasion
for me to shine in front of everyone and do something
really well because all the other subjects were
in Italian and I was struggling a bit. And I
have to say sports was my least favorite one
because when I was younger at my international
school, sports was something that you could pick
yourself and decide what you wanted to do. Instead,
at the Italian school, it was like mandatory
one month of basketball, one month of baseball,
one month of volleyball. And being forced to
do a specific thing was always a bit difficult
for me. So that was my least favorite subject.
Changing environments is such a difficult process
to go through. Do you remember receiving any
advice from the people around you, maybe siblings
or the family members? Not really. And were you
able to pick yourself up and have some kind of
self -talk to cope with the situation? No, not
really. I was so affected by understanding that
I was different. When you're 11, 12, 13, you
don't really know what's happening. I think nowadays
kids know, but back in the days, we were not
so aware of our surroundings. So for me, I was
struggling to understand, was I the problem?
Were they the problem? Like, why was there so
much difference? And why was the difference a
problem? Why was it a problem that I had an accent?
Why was it a problem that I didn't have their
same religion? Why was it a problem that someone
from a different religion goes to religious school?
Because the values are the same between the religions.
So for me, it wasn't an issue. I didn't see the
differences. I think the fact of going from kindergarten
to middle school, international school, where
difference is such a big and important and special
thing, that for me... I had struggles understanding
why am I now in a place where everyone is the
same and I also have to adapt. And so no, not
really. No special tips from anyone. I just adapted
and it took me some years, but I did adapt. Thank
you for sharing. And now if there is a mini Leila
out there, someone who's relating to what you're
saying. What kind of advice would you give them
to cope with the situation? I would say, I would
suggest for it to be herself. I think I had such
a strong personality when I was younger. But
then those three years of middle school, really,
I became much more introverted. I was always
in the backseat. I think I had also lower self
-esteem. And it was all as a result of feeling
different. If I saw myself now, I would be like,
wow, that's so special that you're so different.
You should use that as an advantage. I learned
that later on. My friends, when you find good
friends, they teach you, I think, these kind
of things. And when they spot you for being different
and they want to be your friend because you're
different, then you're like, OK, so maybe it's
not. such a bad thing that I'm different. Maybe
I don't have to hide it. Maybe it doesn't have
to be a secret. So I wish I just was myself.
I think I would be much more natural if I just
didn't change myself or try to change myself.
Hopefully that reaches the people who need to
hear it the most. And you just mentioned that
you were not confident at the time, and I would
love for us to discuss it slightly later on how
to build confidence. Regarding grades, so we
understand clearly that English was your favorite
subject because you had great grades and sports,
not so much. But would you say for the remaining
classes, you still had decent grades? How did
it look like? Yeah, exactly. Like at that age,
I was also trying to look good in front of the
priests and nuns and everything and trying to.
be good at school. And that's also part of fitting
in. So studying, being good with your, being
good at tests, exams, and just trying to not
look either extremely good or extremely bad,
but being somewhere in the middle so no one can
spot you, you know. So I think I was doing well,
but mostly because I just wanted to. fit in and
no one to call out on me and be like, hey, why
didn't you study for this exam, you know? So
I think that was my, those were my school habits
back in the days. And what did you do after those
school hours? Did you have any passions, any
habits, activities you were doing with some friends,
family members? I was traveling a lot with my
family. I was visiting a relative. Most of my
relatives live in Germany, Switzerland, France.
So I would travel to visit them. And that was
mostly done on the weekends. There was a lot
of traveling to Zurich or to Frankfurt to see
my grandparents, my cousins, uncles. And in my
free time, I would spend a lot of time reading.
And also I was getting into fashion. So I would
buy these magazines back in the days in Germany.
I would collect them. So I was trying to go at
least every couple of months in Germany to buy
this magazine called InStyle. And I was collecting
all of them. It was in German, so I didn't quite
understand, but that helped me. I was curious
enough to force myself to understand certain
things and then looking certain words and certain
things on the internet and trying to just understand
most of the texts. And I was always imagining
myself one day being on those magazines. That
never happened. Won't happen, probably. But I
was passionate and I would, from reading just
like novels and books to... magazines and I spent
most of my time like that. I was also very big
on, from my passion, from fashion, it also started
to like wanting myself to write about it and
to talk about it. Even though I didn't have a
lot of knowledge, I just wanted to share the
things that I would learn and read about. So
I opened a forum, would you call it like that?
And then I opened the website. So those were
the things that I was interested in, vlogs and
forums and websites and just talking and writing
and posting. And that all started around the
age of 14. So it was like the end of middle school
and the beginning of high school. How did reading
impact your life at the time? A way to maybe
escape real life and reality, but it was also
like... I could read in English. So I was living
in Italy and that was connecting me to my childhood
years. So I could read in English and I can reconnect
to those years probably. But it also excited
me to have specific books that were maybe not
available in Italy. So to travel to a specific
place and then have a book there that I couldn't
find back home. To have something special. I
think it was mostly that. And I also, I think
with the years at middle school that I started
spending time on my own, then it was also like
reading is something that you can do completely
alone. You don't need like a group of friends
to do it. You don't need like to have all your
family around. So it's something that you kind
of become independent on your own. You don't
need anyone else to do it. So I think I like
that. It gave me some independence. You're absolutely
right, Leda. I do have a question about your
decision to build an amazing forum, something
of your own around an interest of yours, which
was fashion. My question is, how do you build
the confidence to initiate something, initiate
something that is visible externally, or just
trust that you have enough to share and that
your voice should be heard? When I was writing
on my blog, I always thought that no one would
ever read what I was writing and that it was
only for me. It was just practice before I became
a writer, before I became famous. So for me,
it was just I would write and no one would ever
know and no one would end up on my blog. Things
went differently then, but I didn't know. So
that gave me the. The confidence to start writing
because I was like, no one's going to ever read
about this. So why not do it? I think that's
such a great approach to anything. Just put it
out there. If it catches, well, that was meant
to be. That's great. It means that probably that
resonated with way more people than you thought
it could. And if it doesn't catch us, as you
said, it's practice. That's great for you. Exactly.
And I think I never thought about it in the way
that you just said it. But that's a lot of things
that I do work like that. Like I just do it.
It might work. It might not. I just try it out.
So sometimes it will just be something that maybe
lasted a half a day, but at least I tried something.
So I think that's that's mostly how I approach
life. And that's such a great approach to anything
in life. Because you don't have any regrets.
You just try it out. And you learn throughout.
And to wrap up on those years, Leila, I would
love for us to discuss your level of curiosity.
There are two things that you mentioned. First,
obviously, your curious mind in your travels
and how you approach your travels. And everything
on fashion, how you didn't understand what was
written on those German magazines, but you were
still curious to learn a little bit more. And
go for them every time you were traveling there.
Do you know how your curiosity was born? I know
this is a big, big question, but I would love
for us to understand how you became a curious
human being. I do not have the answer for that.
I think I always wanted to find out things. So
the reason why I opened the forum was because
there was... a guy in my class back in the days
and this was like seventh grade so second year
of middle school in Italy and he created a forum
for the guys in my class and I was like a bit
jealous and I was like how can he do it and why
can't I do it so I just tried to figure it out
so I was curious enough to understand how to
figure it out And I was really passionate about
George Clooney back in the day. So I was like,
OK, I just look things up and asked around to
make it happen. And I didn't have the knowledge.
But by asking around and seeing how things are
done, like without prepping a lot, but just getting
on the computer, trying to go on that website
and seeing how to open things and just looking
around, I managed to do it. This is a brilliant
mindset to have. You have been a go -getter forever.
And I love how you were thinking at the time
is that if he can do it, I can do it. I can find
a solution on how to reach that goal. So my question
to you is, how do you think you became like that?
To see opportunities everywhere instead of limits?
Do you think you can spot a moment in your life
where some kind of trigger which... is now allowing
you, which has been allowing you, to think like
that, to be empowered. I think this also has
roots in being from Afghanistan and my dad became
an entrepreneur and it was always so difficult
for Italians to understand that we came from
a specific kind of background but still made
it. So I think that kind of... could have given
me the courage and the push to just get things
done, even though people think you can't, even
though maybe it's not something usually a girl
would do, you know. So if someone thought she
can't be a geek, you know, she's not that kind
of person, then I wanted to prove them wrong.
I think proving people wrong is something that
was always kind of like trying to get at me in
my life. It was not planned, but it was. maybe
within me, of trying to prove people that I could
do this, that I could do what they think that
I couldn't do, you know? And both as a female,
as an immigrant, as someone with a very diverse
background, as a Muslim, as an Afghan. So I think
proving people wrong is something that I'm passionate
about, and that could have been, back in the
days, the push for me. This is so inspiring,
Leila. Thank you for sharing. So this is a call
to action to you. Try following hot steps. Only
think about the process. Think about the learnings.
Think about the failures and the learnings again.
Just try, try and try again. Let's talk now about
the second part of your teenage life. What can
you tell us about your high school experience?
Were you still interested in some specific classes?
How were your grades? What were your passions,
maybe? Or did you take your passion to the next
level? What can you tell us about those years?
I had a big shift from middle school to high
school. Luckily or unfortunately, I don't know,
but there was this big shift. I wasn't the best
student, let's say, back in the days. I was always
going against the rules and I was being bossy
and trying to be cool. Of course, I had my favorite
subjects and those were definitely easy ones
for me. I was really into English again, into
German. Most of my relatives, because they lived
in Germany, I really wanted to learn their language
and understand what they were saying. So passionate
about those. Philosophy was also something that
was very new to me, so interested also about
that. And then I had some other subjects that
I was not that interested to. And the professors
that I had in those classes were not the greatest.
I think a teacher or professor really shapes
how you see that specific subject. And I think
it's really important to be a great teacher,
but sometimes that's not the case. I think I
was very, I took everything very personal. So
I was like, OK, he's not a great man. So why
should I study his subject, you know? And that
was a wrong mindset. And now I can see it. And
I met my Italian teacher last week. And she was
so sweet and she has now retired. And she said
so many nice things to me. And I was like. Leila,
you should have studied that subject. And she
wasn't that bad as you thought, you know. Of
course, people change. It could be that now she's
much better. But I was like, why did I take it
so personally? You know, I could have had less
discussions and just study and do what I had
to do and just call it a day instead of being
a drama queen. It is so difficult to have a teacher
who is unable to transmit their passion for the
subject and if it feels like the person doesn't
want to be here so some of us can get impacted
by that and and one can think that what's the
point of being here what's the point of learning
what's the point of listening but in the contrary
you should try your best to either learn during
that time or find solution after hours to learn
that subject better because the only thing you
can control is your learning process and what
do you do with the situation you're in because
obviously we cannot so we cannot just vote for
the teacher to change and have a new one so leila
do you have any advice on how to manage those
kind of situations? Or what would you have done
differently yourself? I couldn't have done anything
differently. I think I was just shaped in that
moment of life in that specific way. And I didn't
have the means that I have now. But if I could
share, if I could see what my cousins are doing
and my younger cousins. If I could give them
advice, it would be just to like, yes, it is
possible that you don't have a great professor
or that the professor doesn't treat you that
well. Could be any reason, maybe your personality,
just you don't vibe. Maybe they don't like where
you're from or how you talk, how you speak, how
you dress. It's to not take it personally and
to do it your own way. Are you into history?
That professor is not great. OK, go home, use
ChatGPT, go to the library, get a bunch of books
and become passionate about that thing on your
own terms, because there are so many things you
can do in your life on your own terms and you
don't know. You're like, OK, it's it's only like
that. And if I don't like like that, what do
I do? I just give up. No, you should still do
it and just do it your own way. You know, I was
into reading. I could have just bought a book
about. that specific period of history in English
that I was much more passionate learning in English
than in Italian. And then I could have just made
it mine, you know? Yes. Go to the library. Do
the extra work. And you know what? You're actually
getting ready for what higher education is all
about. You need to work more. You're being shared
a lot of information. You're being taught a lot
of... elements but you still have to put the
extra work on the side and you know what in the
meantime during this process is during this very
challenging time for you you're learning what
is your studying style and i think you're learning
also something that is going to follow you all
throughout your life is that you will always
be facing people who are not vibing, as you just
said, with you or they're not going to meet the
expectation that you have from them. So what
do you do? You just take it in your own hands
to find solutions. And you try your best. And
to wrap up on those years, Leila, what can you
tell us about your habits and passions outside
of school? Were you still traveling? Were you
still working on your passion projects, your
own fashion? What can you share with us? I was
still traveling, not that often, but I was still
traveling to the same specific countries that
I have relatives in. Back in the days, traveling
was not as easy as it is today. I was still into
writing and blogging. I took it a step further.
I changed the name of my blog. I made it a bit
more fun. I started to talk about it with people.
So I was not hiding it as if it was a secret
anymore. I would write on the blackboards the
name of the blog because I wanted people to go
visit it. When I met new people, I would say
that I'm doing that. So it became kind of like
my branding. And that gave me a lot of opportunities
to go to concerts for free, to go to fashion
shows. So it opened kind of like my world into
fashion even more, but also into music and cinema
and just any kind of interesting event in Milan,
I would be invited. And back in the days, having
a blog was, it was still at the beginning of
when the blogs were becoming successful and something
people would follow a lot. Of course, it was
easier for me because it was still early and
there were not a lot of vlogs nowadays. It would
be much more difficult. But I would spend literally
every day writing for it or doing something fun
because of it. So it opened a lot of doors for
me. That's incredible. So tell us more. Did you
think at the time that it would be your career
path? Were you just doing it for fun? What was
your... Thought pauses at that time. I thought
at the beginning that that could be a career
path because that's something that was fun for
me to do. And we didn't have content creators
or influencers that much. So it was more like
I would see it as fashion journalism. And that's
how I still would call it, you know. So I thought
that I could do that. However, going to a lot
of events and meeting a lot of people, I somehow
then was like, maybe I'm not good enough or maybe
I'm just too young for this. So I kind of like
doubted myself in the last years. But definitely
at the beginning, that was something that I thought.
And I met people from very different walks of
life. And I was like, OK, so this is a place
for everyone. It's like a melting pot of very...
diverse creatives all getting together and fashion
week was my favorite weeks in Milan we had four
of them during the year and I was always so excited
and my goal every year was to get invited by
the most famous fashion shows and that I didn't
get to that yet but Going to all the press presentations
and to all the events and getting to know these
people was very eye -opening to me. And at the
same time, I was like, yes, interesting, fun,
but can I be that person? Can I make a living
out of it? That for me was a big question mark.
Now it's very easy to find out because you can
just Google it and there are... journalists and
influencers talking about how much money they
make and how they can make a living out of it.
But back in the days, it was not very obvious.
So I didn't know if that was something sustainable
or if it was just something that I could do for
a couple of years and then I had to change. So
what's your biggest learning through that whole
experience? So in order to be a blogger, especially
if you don't have the audience, I didn't have
the audience yet. I had some following. Most
of it were people that were kind of connected
to me. So not my friends, but maybe the friends
of my friends and that kind of connection. Once
there was a DJ duo who came to Milan and a friend
of mine was obsessed with them. And they are
called Digitalism. And I had to send an email
to ask if I could go backstage to interview them.
I would do these kind of things. And then they
asked something that I that no one ever asked
me before. And they were like, how are your numbers?
Can you send us some proof of like how your blog
is doing? So this was someone from their team,
not them directly. And then I had to like reply
in a much more convincing way because I didn't
have those numbers. And I tried to fake it a
bit. And I was like, fake it until you make it,
you know. But then I also had to do some convincing
and promising them a certain kind of like coverage
after the concert. And I managed to get it. But
the deal took so long that I didn't plan myself
that well. So in the end, I didn't even go to
that event, to the concert, because I didn't
have a car. So I had to organize myself with
like... My parents to pick me up, take me to
the train station, pick me up. It was a whole
thing that wasn't that easy to organize as I
can do it now because I have my own car. So I
didn't manage to do it in the end. But the fake
confidence that I built in those emails, sometimes
I just go back and read them and I'm like, listen,
I did this. I managed to do it when I was 17,
16. Why can't I do it now? Absolutely. Great
call out. Fake it till you make it. You never
know what can happen. Leila, let's now drop into
your bachelor's program. So your higher education.
Can you tell us why you made a specific choice?
Did you stay in the same city? Why did you choose
to pursue that instead of something else? So
when I had to decide which... university I had
to go to I was struggling a lot because I was
passionate about politics and human rights and
I always thought I would do something like that
when I grow up but then when I got to the end
of my high school year and I had to make a decision
that summer I was very confused because in Italy
we don't have a counselor at school that would
help you understand what you're good at, what
you could do, what you couldn't do, and how universities
work. So I was the first one in my family who
started going to universities. So my parents
didn't study and a lot of my relatives didn't
study. So it was a bit hard to get some help.
A lot of my friends also had parents who hadn't
studied. So making a decision wasn't something
easy. I had made some research and I understood
that if you become a lawyer, you couldn't move
away from where you were living because then
you had to take more exams and try to make your
degree valid in that specific country. So I knew
that I wanted to travel. I knew that I wanted
to help people. I didn't want to do political
science I wasn't sure my sister was doing the
same so I was like let's not study the same thing
so I was very confused and that confusion took
a long time so my decision to study in the end
business and languages was something that I decided
on the day that we had the deadline to pick the
university so I just went on different websites
of the universities the whole summer and at one
point it was the deadline and I knew that my
Family really wanted me to do business. And I
did not want to do that. But I also knew that
I couldn't do law and I couldn't do political
science because my sister was doing it. So I
was kind of stuck and I didn't know what to do.
And then I saw a course that looked interesting
that I didn't see the whole summer, which was
business and languages. And I was like, OK, I
have a big. passion for cultures and languages.
And that part would excite me. And then I have
the whole business part that I will probably
mostly hate. So this would be something that
I could do to make both my family happy and myself.
I could do it for a year. And then if it doesn't
work out, which is kind of how I do everything,
I'm like, let's just try it. If it doesn't work
out, then I can change next year because now
it's too late. So either decide today or I can't
study this year. So that's what I did. And it
was open. You didn't have to do any tests to
get in. That's the case in most of the universities
in Italy. Apart from medical school, everything
else is quite open. So that's how I made the
decision. So it's not very philosophical and
it's not very planned. It was just like very
logical. Back in the days, I was like, OK, I
don't know what I want to do. This is something
that would make everyone happy. And both things
seem kind of useful. for the future. So let's
just see how it goes. And how did your studies
go? I just stuck with it. And the reason was,
so my friends who did study law did not have
a social life, did not have a life whatsoever.
So I was like... I don't think I can do that.
You know, I still had my passion. So I still
kept doing the whole blogging thing, which I
strictly wanted to keep as a passion because
a lot of people were like, why don't you do that?
And I'm like, that's my passion. So I kept it
as a passion and I kept traveling. So I was like,
if I do Stabilo, I can't do these things. So
I need to give up on the things that I like.
Because I might have a job that I like. I might
have a job that I like in 10 years. So I wasn't
ready to do that. I wasn't strategic enough to
think like that. And I was like, OK, let's continue
doing it. And my first year, I didn't do a lot
of exams. The few that I did, though, I had great
grades. So I'm still a bit confused. Not knowing
what to do, I was like, okay, let's go on Erasmus.
And maybe there I'll learn more about what other
people are doing. I can be more inspired. I learned
German finally really well. So I was like, okay,
let's go for that. I applied for it. And it happened
like eight months later, they let me know that
I got the scholarship and I could go on Erasmus.
I think nowadays it's much easier, but back in
the days, it was not everyone could just apply
and go on Erasmus. So you had to have like good
grades and you had to be lucky. I think like
also plays a big role in this. And I applied
to. German universities so I think if I applied
to Spain or somewhere more fun I wouldn't have
gotten it but because I applied also to Germany
I think it was also something that Italians would
rather not go to so I just applied to that and
I got the position and it was so fun best year
of my life absolutely and I was 21 back in the
days or 20. And it was just so much fun. And
I became a big fan of the country, the culture,
the people. And I was like, I'm going to live
here when I'm older. And it opened my eyes to
Germany and the German culture and was very useful
for me. And also the feeling of getting a scholarship,
it's always very nice. Absolutely. And how did
your grades look like? Did you work more than
when you were in high school? How was your experience
in the studying field? In high school, I was
forced to do certain things. And I think at university,
you're much more free. You can decide when to
give exams, how to give them. And at least in
Italy, that's the case. So you have these 12
classes to take in a specific year. And then
it's up to you if you want to give all those
12 exams or if you just want to give a couple
of them. So having a lot of freedom really helped
me. I picked the exams that I wanted to do. I
picked the classes that I wanted to do. And those
other classes that I didn't like, I would just
study on my own terms and on my own at home,
which is also very comfortable. So having a lot
of freedom made me want to do stuff well. And
that also helped me to get picked for Erasmus.
So I kind of like planned it in a way that...
Not to stress myself too much, but also that
I was like, it's a new city. It's a new school.
Let's do stuff well. That didn't last too long,
though. At least I started really well. Erasmus
is definitely a life -changing program. And if
you've never heard of it, please do your own
research on the program. You can learn what it
takes to join it. You can learn how much does
it cost in a country to actually take part of
the program. but also you can learn exactly what
are the financial supports that can be received
once you apply. And lastly, you heard Leila's
POV, but what are the other POVs out there per
country if you're not interested in Germany,
for example? How does it work in Italy, Leila?
Do you get to do internship during your bachelor's?
No, absolutely. I think that's something that
Italian universities lack is the work experience.
I think in Italy, we start working really late.
Usually you do your bachelor, you also do your
master's, and then you start to work. So it's
always postponed a lot. And so during my bachelor,
I didn't have any mandatory internships. I had
it only during my master's. Before that, nothing.
So it was a lot of people start working actually
at the age of 27, 28, which I think it's something
that should be changed. Hopefully it has changed.
I don't know how it is right now, but back in
the days, there was no mandatory internship.
That's so interesting. So actually having something
on your side, which is your own, that you create
from scratch is helping you build some skills
that you need once. You go for that first job,
you go for that first internship or anything
else. And can you update us about the blog that
you are running? So were you learning more skills?
Were you evolving it? Did it change in any way?
Definitely, yeah. And my blog went from being
a fashion blog to becoming a lifestyle blog.
So I also... recruited let's say six of my friends
living in different parts of the world and they
were also writing on on the blog it became eventually
a website let's say on this on the website and
they were writing articles about the specific
topics that they were either studying in university
or they were doing as a job so I had these different
friends located in from the US to Turkey to Afghanistan
writing on the blog and it felt very very good
to be like a bunch of international people but
that also meant I kind of like lost the ownership
of it. which then eventually killed the blog
and the website during the years. And now it's
non -existent anymore, you know? And looking
back at those past years, how do you build the
confidence to go for things, to move to another
country, to launch your own thing, to just trust
yourself that things can go either the right
way or you can just learn through it? How do
you build the confidence there? Difficult one.
I think the decision to go work in Germany was
a natural one, given the great experience that
I had during my Erasmus. Like I was waiting the
whole time to finish my studies and move to Germany.
So this was like my plan. But then, OK, bachelor
is done. Everyone is doing their master's. I
need to do my master's. And then. I did my master's.
I was done. The moment that I was done, I moved
to Germany and I went to work for Google Boss.
And that was for me, like, I was so happy. Like,
I was like, I made it, like, success. So it was
like my goal. I reached it. And it was, I thought,
like, this is everything that I want. Perfect.
I'm going to live in Germany forever and I'm
going to do this forever. I'm going to work in
fashion and I'm going to be happy in Germany.
And I don't think I had to build courage to do
that. I was just... It didn't feel forced, not
the first time that I went to Germany. Forced,
I felt like the second time that I went. But
the first time that I went, it was out of just
passion and, again, curiosity of seeing how would
it be to live there. So I make this change. I
moved to Stuttgart, which is exactly where I
also did my Erasmus. But I realized that everyone
I didn't get my Erasmus with was not there anymore.
It was very different to work in a specific place
compared to just study there and having a good
time because working is much more energy consuming.
So what I had thought it would be, it was a bit
different. It was very interesting at work per
se, but living on my own in Stuttgart was not
what I thought it would be. At one point, I went
back. So it's always okay in life to just go
back, you know, and be like, okay, this is not
what I thought it would be. Let's go back home.
So then I went back to Italy. I had some work
experiences there. But I realized that in Germany,
even though when I was at Hugo Boss, I was kind
of like an assistant, an intern, but I had much
more. freedom at work compared to Italy so I
could take so many big decisions even though
I was in a big fashion company and in Italy was
a bit different so I was like I'm missing that
kind of responsibility and freedom to take decisions
and to be in a not in the front row not in the
way of like having to decide for everyone but
just being in a situation where what you do has
actually an impact and you're not just working
in the back seat and do something that is like
less important just because you're younger doesn't
mean that you don't have you don't have let's
say the chance to grow in a specific environment,
but also you can take risks and you can do something
that someone more senior can also do. And that
in Italy is a bit lacking. I think hierarchy
is very big here and you have to kind of be on
your lane and not look at what other people are
doing and not think that you can take bigger
decisions. So that's why then I went back to
Germany a couple of years later. One year later,
I think I just went back. And this time I moved
to Munich. And this time it took courage because
I was like, OK, I'm not happy. What should I
do? There is no way out. So I can't change an
entire system. But I can change my own situation.
So I packed my bags and I left again. And that
was during COVID. It was the year that COVID
started. So it was also a year where everything
was a little bit confusing for everyone. So it
wasn't as easy as it happened for me when I went
to Hugo Boss. Because I went from excitement
and... I was like just looking forward to everything.
And this time it was like, you're afraid. And
also you're not allowed to talk to everyone.
People are wearing masks and everyone is not
trusting everyone. So it was a very different
experience, which turned to be also very interesting
and very nice. And the company that I was at,
it was very international. So I met people from
all over the world, which was amazing. And it
turned out to be good in the end, but not the
easiest path, let's say. I think there are two
things that you need to remember. The first thing,
and you've heard it in different episodes as
well, dare to try. Trust yourself. If you try,
you'll just get to know what works for you and
what doesn't. The second thing is, you need skills.
Hard, soft, you need them. And you need them
for two reasons. Some of them will give you the
freedom of space, so to move to another country.
And the second type will just allow you to move
from one sector to another, to one type of job
or another. As we all know, it's very difficult
to make your own decision on what to do, long
term, short term. But only the skills you have
are empowering you to change your mind and be
the one choosing. And if you don't know where
to look, what skills to have, I did share an
episode on the skills of 2030. So go back to
that one and look into all the research that
I linked. Let's now talk about your master's
program. Can you tell us what did you choose?
What did you do? But as well as your first experience,
can you tell us about it? My master's program
was in management for global businesses, and
it was like a mix between business and sustainability.
So it was the beginning of those years where
people were getting interested in sustainability.
So it kind of felt like a natural choice because
I still wanted to be in the same university.
I wanted to be in the same city. And I looked
at the programs that were available and this
sounded like the newest and the one which was
a bit out of the box. So I was like... okay,
this sounds like something interesting and I
could go for it. And again, not a lot of planning,
same as my bachelor. I know there were people
who were thinking about it a year in advance,
but for me it was like, let's see what is available.
And between all of them, this sounds like the
most interesting. So let's pick it. And to this
day, we still need experts in that space. So
there are countless master's programs which are
so different from each other, which are still...
tackling the challenges that we're facing with
climate change so if you're remotely interested
or curious about it feel free to just both the
different master's program in the country you're
in or in foreign countries where you can probably
find financial support to get there can you tell
us about the experience that you were mentioning
there the internship that you got When I was
doing my bachelor studies, I realized that I
didn't have any work experience. So I started
to apply to some internship opportunities. And
I was like, OK, I'm now doing this whole blogging
thing. So maybe it could be something related
to that. So it could be also easier for me and
it doesn't have to be like a big shift. And I
saw this opening as. During my blogging years,
I met a lot of people working in PR because those
were the people who were inviting me to the events.
So I was like, maybe I can do something in PR.
I saw a job posting about an internship in PR
and that was in my university dashboard for jobs.
So I was lucky enough to have access to that.
And I applied. I went to the interview. And I
found out that it was something very different
than what I thought. So it said that it was related
to PR and I knew that it was related to music.
I just didn't know that it meant to be an assistant
to a guy who is now a famous singer. Back in
the days, he was quite popular, but not that
famous yet. And internships are unpaid in Italy.
So it meant being... available 24 -7 as an assistant
to the singer for three months. I was really
excited and I was like, that's going to be amazing.
And he made me realize that a lot of companies
in Italy and probably in other countries... use
you as an intern, but make you do like a lot
of other stuff that they just don't want to pay
someone full time to do it. So being his assistant
was probably not the best that I could aspire
to. So then I went back into the research and
I started applying to other things. And one of
them was in PR for a PR company, which was working
with aviation. And I was I interviewed for it.
And the person who was interviewing me was also
from a very mixed background. And I think we
connected because of that, because I didn't have
a lot of knowledge. So then why pick me, you
know? And I talked about my blog, but, you know,
you're a PR company. So what do you care about
my blog? So I don't think that was what made
him pick me, but it worked. So he picked me.
I started doing the... PR internship and I learned
a lot about aviation completely new so that was
why I was I was very excited and it turned out
to be very interesting however PR was very was
something that was connected to my blogging years
but in a whole different environment so I was
like okay maybe I should try PR, but in fashion.
It sounds a bit more doable and also I might
be even better at it. And that's why then I ended
up at Hugo Boss because that was like a fashion
company and I thought the internship was in PR.
It turns out it wasn't PR, it was additional
marketing. But that was the reason why I picked
Hugo Boss, which was very controversial back
in the days because I always said I didn't want
to do... Fashion as a job, it was only just my
passion. But then it just happened. And it was
also great timing. And then it was in Stuttgart.
I was going to go back to Germany. So it fit
really well. And that's why I went for it. If
you need to remember one thing from those experiences
here, or at least my advice would be to you,
is to focus on a role which you can do wherever.
Meaning if today you want to work in a specific
space, let's say sustainability. Well, maybe
in a few years from now, you want to move away
and work in fashion or you want to work in aviation.
I think what would be great is for you to be
able to adapt and not to be stuck into one specific
area or domain or skill set. Because we learned.
through the research from the OECD, the European
Commission and other institutions, is that we
will need to adapt. So let's start adapting by
adapting our skills in the field we are trying
to study. And Ayla, what did you like the most
about those experiences and the list? I think
what I liked the most in all of the past experiences
I had was the environment that I was working
in, and especially if it was like a multicultural
environment. I think that comes from being in
a very multicultural place when I was younger,
then moving to a place where there were not a
lot of international people. And then again,
being in that situation was very, very nice for
me. And getting to talk to different people and
understand what their families do, what they
do, how they ended up in a specific place and
getting inspired by other people's stories. Because
I sometimes think that I... ended up in specific
workplaces or situations just because it just
randomly happened, but it wasn't maybe a strategic
idea or move from my side. So trying to get to
know those people in those places was very inspirational
for me, especially if they were from different
backgrounds compared to mine. Those explain your
next step. You moved to Ireland for a new role.
And can you tell us a little bit about it? And
why did you make this move? So when I started
working in digital marketing at Hulu Boss, I
understood that that was something that excited
me. I think it sits in the middle between creativity
and technology, which were the things that were
interesting for me growing up. And I didn't know
that I wanted to do that as a job. That was just
a way to go back to Stuttgart and get to learn
about fashion. But then I found myself to be
much more interested in marketing. than in fashion.
So I was like, okay, maybe this is something
that I could do. So I didn't have like a clear
plan or a clear idea. I just thought that this
could be something interesting since I've always
been fascinated by people and how people make
decisions. So what influences them, how they
engage with content, how they are convinced to
make a purchasing decision. And I was like, OK,
this is digital marketing. This is marketing.
And let's just learn more about this. So then
my future decisions of like workplaces were related
to work experiences were related to that. And
my experience in Dublin was very positive. And
I learned even more about digital marketing since
META is like the epitome of digital marketing.
I was in a very international environment, which
was a great thing again for me. And I learned
so much from everyone that I met. And I try to
take something from everyone and then try to
also be a bit more intentional. So I meet someone,
they do something that I like, why don't I do
also something like that? So just trying to grow
more as a person by meeting the different people
that I had the chance of meeting while working
at Meta. And during that experience, can you
share with us the skills you developed, the valuable
skills that you can use in your new role, but
also in any other experience? That's a great
question. I think the digital marketing role
that I thought I would have in Zeppelin was much
more salesy than I thought, which... actually
meant that I would learn so many new skills that
were related to my passions, being with people,
but also this time convincing them. So it was
not just about being curious enough to learn
about them, but also listening, actively listening
to them and understand what their issues were
and how I could actually solve those issues with
my products. So I think... It was still connected
to what I had passions in the past, but this
time I needed a few more skills I didn't think
I had. Probably I had them within me, more passive.
I just needed to activate them and in a way that
it's for business, for work, and not for just
networking and getting to know people. So especially
convincing people and having to also educate
people on certain products was something that...
I thought that I wouldn't be that good at, but
instead it was something that I started enjoying.
And I realized that it was, again, being with
people and having to deal with getting to know
people and understanding people and putting myself
into their shoes. And I think that's what clicked
for me and make it work and made me be good at
it, which I didn't think I could. I love how
you build confidence and you have developed incredible
skills. And do you think that your new job is
allowing you to develop new ones or it's more
continuity of what you have been doing in the
past years? I think it's the first time that
I'm applying the different skills of the different
jobs that I had. You need to be a bit more driven
in your career. At least that's what usually
people are. And I'm trying to... understand how
to do that without losing myself so I still have
my passions I still have my values but I also
want to be a bit more I want to be called an
expert in a specific thing so I think now putting
together everything that I've learned and trying
to master them would be useful for me but also
something that could be useful with the people
that I'm working with and my clients so I'm just
trying to be a bit more strategic um in regards
to the things that I know how to do and how to
be even better in them and sharing content online
is one of them right can you tell us about your
blogging journey now how it looks like and and
how can we find it yeah for sure so I started
as I said when I was like 13, 14. And it started
with my passions back in the days, which was
fashion. And then it went more into music. And
then it became a bit more lifestyle where we
had some philosophical stuff in it, also cooking
stuff, traveling, a bit of everything. And then
I had to stop doing my master's because I really
wanted to do my master's well. And I stopped
that. A few years later, I was like, I wish I
didn't because I had a following. I had something
interesting going on and I could just like, it
could have changed based on, you know, the personality
that changes during the years. I just didn't,
I felt a bit bad that I closed it off. And of
course, the personality changes, the passion
changes during the years. So I wanted to start
again this year, but I didn't know. what I could
talk about because I was not that interested
into fashion anymore and I was not that interested
into music anymore or events and anything going
on in Milan. However, there are different topics
that I'm interested in right now. So I found
myself thinking about these things a lot and
then I was like, okay, maybe I can start writing
about them instead of talking about it with my
friends and family who are... annoyed now with
everything that I'm talking about and always
being monotomatic so I was like okay if I am
monotomatic then that would be actually a good
thing for for a blog and then I thought about
social media and I think Instagram is a very
interesting tool so I decided to move my idea
from a blog into an Instagram account and I opened
an Instagram account about it and it's called
The Souk and I tried to talk about businesses
and artists fashion again and anything that is
interesting happening in the swana region the
mina and swana region and i think with some things
happening in the last years there's been some
of a kind of like a pattern of dehumanization
of people from those specific regions. So having
a platform where you can talk about it and showing
that there are things happening in these places
which are different than just poverty and war,
it helps them understand that there's so much
more to find out. So it would be worth it to
travel to those places and to meet people from
those places. And I hope... That by talking about
specific topics, I could just spark some interest
in some people to just find out more and make
them their own research. And let's see. It's
just the beginning. So let's see what happens
with it. But right now, for now, I'm quite happy
with it. And I don't have this urge of wanting
to do something so big as I did when I was a
young blogger. I just do it for myself and for
the few people who are following me. And I hope
that it could spark some positive conversations.
So the Instagram handle is at The Souk. So T
-H -E -S -O -U -K. And there is way more than
just a few followers. Congratulations, Leila,
for building such a great space. We are all learning
so much from that region. And to close this episode.
What last advice can you share with us? Either
that the younger version of yourself would have
loved to hear or just or any version of yourself.
My advice is what I would give myself right now
to like, I don't think it's for like just a specific
moment of your life, but I think it could be
applied anytime is to do what you're deeply passionate
about. So it won't feel like working at all.
I couldn't become a human rights lawyer, but
I try to do something connected to that every
once in a while, helping people and trying to
be useful in that sense. And that fools me. I
can't go back in time. But if you're deciding
what to do in your career, I would suggest to
sit with yourself. Sometimes think about everything
you're good at and your passions and I don't
know, write them all down and then look at those
and start deciding what to study or what to do
in your career based on those. And that could
change, that could shift. I was into fashion
and then it completely changed a couple of years
later. That can also change for yourself. Like
when you decide what to study, that doesn't mean
that you have to do that as a job too. So it
could be connected, but it could also be something
that changes throughout your career. So the different
positions that you have are not connected to
a specific degree that you have. It could be
just also based on something that is interesting
for you in that specific moment of your life.
Keep your options open. Thank you so much, Leila.
Thank you for your time. Thank you for the advice.
Wishing you all the best for your new role and
for the souk. Thank you so much. Thank you for
joining us. Thank you for listening. And please
don't forget to subscribe and follow us whether
you're listening to the podcast. And I'll see
you next week.