Hi, and welcome back to And you, How Did You Make
It, the podcast in which we explore each step
that has built the career path of various professionals
through the discovery of their habits, passions,
and interests over the last few decades. I'm
Yosra, your host, and today we meet Orla. Do
you think that you need to pursue studies which
allow you not to feel limited? Do you want to
feel empowered to start working harder and wiser
towards your goal? And lastly, do you want to
understand the power of sports in your life?
then this episode is for you. Orla will inspire
you to accept difficulty, to embrace failure
and the learning process that comes with it,
to determine what resiliency can mean for you
and inspire you to invest in yourself, in your
values. So let's learn from her. Hi Orla and welcome
to the podcast. I'm very happy to have you with
us today. I'm looking forward to learn a lot,
a lot from you. I'll give you the floor to introduce
yourself. Thanks, Yasmeer. Look, it's a pleasure
to be here. I'm Orla and I'm based in Dublin,
Ireland. I'm married to Dave. We have a cat.
He's seven kilos, Maine Coon, certainly rules
the house. 20 koi fish as well. I might talk
a little bit about that later. I would describe
myself as still an engineer. I also enjoy being
active. So for the past 10 years, it's been weightlifting.
The years before that, I was into mental biking.
When I was in school, I played basketball and
also did a bit of ballet and music. So I suppose
I tried many different things. I'm also passionate
about working with my hands. So that looks like
being in the garden or renovating or currently
in the middle of what I would describe as a 10
-year plan. I simply just enjoy being busy and
having things to do. So never a dull moment.
I cannot wait to deep dive into what you just
said. But first, can you share with us your definition
of success, Orla? Definition of success. Wow.
So I suppose when I think about success, you
could think about some successful outcomes. They
might be, you know, you've landed a new job.
They might be progressing in a career. It might
be, in my case, building a house or maybe earning
money. But actually, I kind of think about things
more simply. I often find I've got less control
of those long term pieces. So I tend to focus
closer to home. So for me, my definition is simply,
did I achieve what I set out to do and what did
I learn? And more so, what did I learn about
myself in that moment? Right. And I apply that
to the small things. So that might look like,
how did I show up today in work? Did I show up
as I intended? Maybe did I get everything out
of the gym session this morning that I wanted
to achieve? Am I showing up for supporting my
family or friends or even looking after myself
in the way I want to? So I think those little
wins for me are really more important. And then
I can focus or let the bigger things just tend
to happen. I focus on the little stuff. And for
me, I think being focused on success and those
little things, it's more rewarding. Otherwise,
there's going to be large gaps in your life for
you. May not feel successful. So that's probably
how I think about it. Learning, learning about
yourself, showing up for yourself, showing up
for others and much more. I love this definition.
Thank you so much, Orla. Would you say you're
driven by values and routine? Yeah, I'm driven
by values. I'm driven by routine. I'm driven
by process. So I like to break things down. What
is it? I have a view of where I want to be or
where I want to get to, but I break that down
into kind of meaningful pieces. So it means I'm
clear on what's important, what I enjoy, how
I want to show up. It means I can also be my
authentic self, right? A very important word
that everyone will maybe reference. But I think
you've got to reflect and spend some time thinking
about that, thinking about your values. So that's
often how that shows up and plays out when you
think about what success looks like. Am I being
true to me? You can ask yourself some questions
such as, am I being true to myself? Are the actions,
activities I'm doing aligned with what I aspire
to do and be? Or are you able to do this every
day or every month? Oh, for sure. Like I think
when you focus on the small things, it's much
easier to do. Like I said, if it's, you know,
looking at the next career. Or where do you want
to be in five years? I actually never know the
answer to that question. I never have. I don't
like that question. I prefer to think about what
do I enjoy? What am I doing right now? I tend
to live in the moment, to make decisions in the
moment. And that's kind of how it shows up for
me. Then you can have more success or more feeling
of success. Because I think success is a very
inward thing. It's not outwardly focused. It's
not based on necessarily always tangible things.
You can just be, I had a good day and I was really
successful because I, you know, I was a really
nice person. I didn't honk my horn because somebody
cut in front of me in the car. Simple things,
right? I love what you mentioned right there.
The fact that you don't have an answer to the
five -year plan. It puts so much pressure on
ourselves and even more on the youngest generation.
who has even less visibility on what the future
holds for them. 100%. And look, I always admire
people that have a very clear plan. I've just
never been that type of person. I'm motivated
by where I am now and where I want to kind of
go more short term. Some people will have that
five -year plan even longer. Great, brilliant,
but we're all different, right? And I've certainly
learned to become more comfortable with that.
the older I'd gotten, for sure. But I did also
always think that everybody had themselves figured
out when I was younger. And that's not the case.
Like, I don't think I have all the answers to
myself yet. I certainly didn't when I was in
school, but I probably felt that everybody else
knows exactly what they want to do and where
they want to be. And that's not the case. I think
I've learned that the people I see around me
constantly, even those who are highly successful,
don't always have it figured out. They are constantly
experimenting, changing, trying new things. And
I think they're, for me, they're the essence
of what's incredibly important to focus on when
you're in school in particular. The idea here
is to consistently experiment, change, try new
things and take whatever you can learn from those
things. Orla, can you share a bit more about your
early teenage years? What was your favorite subject,
your least favorite subject, the activities you
were doing, what kind of human you were, what
shaped you back then? Everything you can share
with us today. What shaped me back then? It's
certainly an interesting time of life. At times,
I don't know if I envy people, and we all go
through it, right? I think I was definitely quiet
on the quieter side. Today, the label is introvert.
I don't think there was labels when I was in
school, but I was definitely, that would be the
descriptor. I was studious. I wanted to do well.
I wanted to be liked, right? So some of those
really core basic things. Subject wise, I loved
maths. Probably my favorite subject. My least
favorite was certainly English. So my brain handled
figuring things out. asked me to write an essay
about how I feel about what somebody did or did
not say in a poem. I just I just really struggled
with that. But it was interesting. And I'm sure
we'll touch on it. But I changed schools at one
point. And English ended up being my best result.
So, you know, I certainly learned that there
is, even though things are hard, it doesn't mean
that you can't necessarily be successful in them
and you've got to find your ways through it.
But yeah, like, you know, I've touched on, obviously,
spent a lot of time being active. I have two
younger brothers. So we just enjoyed being out
and about at that time of our lives, you know.
We were playing tennis when Wimbledon was on
or Roland Garros or cricket when the Ashes were
on or we were running relays when the Olympics,
you know, you kind of get it. You're just being
a kid effectively and just being in that moment.
But it was interesting. I was presenting at a
conference the end of last year and someone said
to me, you know, what would you do if you were
in my shoes? You know, and they're talking about
someone who's 25 years younger than me. And I
said, my world was very different. You know,
I didn't have a mobile phone. It was, I was early
into college. Mobile phones then, it was literally
to send a message home to tell your mom I might
be a little bit late for dinner. You know, it
wasn't, you weren't rating people to arrange
meetups. It was just a very different environment.
I think I like the simpleness that my childhood
and early school years would be. I can't imagine,
as I said, I don't have kids. I have nieces and
nephews who are that bit younger. But, you know,
it's difficult. It is difficult to be a teenager
now from, you know, when I chat to colleagues
and who have kids of that age, making those decisions
with the amount of pressure that exists. I found
the pressure that was in my world hard, but it's
very different to what exists today. But I think
some of the principles certainly ring. are the
same and ring true, right? And do you remember
why you liked math more than English? I suppose
how my brain is still today, I'm a problem solver.
So the logic of it made sense to me. I had some
good teachers, I had some bad teachers. I had,
my dad studied math, so he was highly interested
in helping. us understand, really understand,
not just to be taught a lesson just to learn
it, but to truly appreciate and understand maths.
So I suppose it was many reasons. You know, I
was good. I could think through it. I had someone
to help me understand it. I suppose were probably
the primary reasons why I enjoyed it. And then
when I enjoyed it, I became good at it, right?
I think I'm probably the type of person who's
not naturally good. You know, some people are
just amazing superstars at everything and you
look at them. I probably wasn't one of those.
I had to work hard to do well and be successful
in something. But I liked the challenge of maths.
It was logical. I could break things down. I
could see the progress. I just found the likes
of English. much harder to grasp the concepts.
But I think as I progressed through school, I
started to learn the techniques that helped me
in how my brain operates and apply it to English
or other subjects similar to that. There were
less kind of maths or science -y based. So I
found my way through it, but I would still say,
you know, reading an English passage and having
to ask, you know, and through exam or through...
job applications you often have to do some types
of tests I find them still really hard right
so they are not my natural strength and I will
have to study I don't enjoy them and I wouldn't
do them by choice I have to say so I think knowing
your strengths you always lead with them and
leverage them so and yeah I think that's probably
why maths for me as it was always the strongest
or maths types maths and science type subjects.
You have an advice here already. Knowing your
strength and leading with what you're good at.
I liked your mindset at the time as well, Orla.
Seeing math as a challenge to raise. I do have
two questions for you there. What did your dad
tell you at the time? Any advice? And the second
question is, what would you tell a teenager to
start being as interested in math or any other
class as you were? So it's interesting, like
I see my niece at the moment not enjoying maths,
right? And, you know, I've sought to understand
why. And I think like any subject, it can be
at times influenced by who's teaching it. It
could be influenced internally by, oh, I don't
feel so good when I do this because I find it
hard and I don't want to put the work in or I
have this story in my head that everybody else
is good at it and I'm not. it's not necessarily
the subject per se it's more what is it you do
or don't like and connect with and understanding
that often helps you so if it is for example
a teacher that's you know you don't connect with
or don't get a good energy from and doesn't help
you explain how else can you find a way to figure
out if you're actually good and could enjoy it
right i think there's many ways to look at it
and So I think it's applicable to all subjects.
It's not just maths, right? Obviously, that's
been my train through my career. And as I said,
into being in it, still describing myself as
an engineer. But I think when someone is truly
good at something, you have invested time, you've
understood it, and you are fair on why you enjoy
it and what you want to get from it. I have a
story in my head that everyone is good at. X
or Y class or whatever activity it is, is such
a common way to think. And it's actually a great
reminder. Think about it. The only thing you
can control and you can do and should focus on
is actually yourself. So those are fantastic
points, Orla. And you should ask yourself the
following question. So what don't you like and
like about that class? What is the blocker that's
preventing you from succeeding, from liking it?
Is it a teacher who doesn't help you? What can
you do about it? And you're such a lucky generation.
You have access to more knowledge than ever.
So if you're not connecting to a teacher or to
your classmates or anyone else, go in both and
beyond and look for the courses online, the YouTube
videos and anything that can bring you the knowledge
somewhere else. Yeah. Yeah. I think the first
question is to answer, do you want it? try to
be good at something if you're not naturally
and if you do then you need to do everything
that you can and I think and back to your original
question at the start and how can you be successful
in that particular subject or particular topic
right it's not just anchored to a individual
it's not just anchored to are you good at the
get -go it's there's many components to it but
I think starting with why do you want to do something
and if it's because you enjoy it and then you
know you kind of work from there. If you are
indeed willing to become good at something, you
need to do everything that you can to make it
happen. Well, I do have another question on math.
You said you like the challenge of it. How did
you start liking or loving challenging things?
I think at home, even though I've two younger
brothers, I was the one who was changing the
light bulb or if the alarm broke, I was fixing
it. I think there was always something that I
was taking apart and figuring it out. And so
I think that that was just a natural evolution
to maths. So it's more that the problem solving,
figuring something out is why I think I enjoyed
maths, why I became good at it is because I was
that type of individual that. You know, and simply
like you flick around with a pen in your hands.
I was always taking a pen apart and then putting
it back together again. So I'm curious to understand
how something works. If something is broken,
I will seek to see if I can fix it. And that's,
I suppose, that skill without even knowing it
as a kid is what I was doing. And then as I started
to explore subjects, that kind of problem solving
logic. shows up in maths, right? And as opposed
to being strong in languages, as an example.
So that's where I suppose when I think about
it, my brain is wired in that way to understand
how something works, why does it work and be
curious. So I will often, you know, walk into
a building and think about why is the layout
the way it is? Or you have to do a process of
a sign up of a new product. Why do I have to
follow these steps? There's a better way to kind
of collect this data as an example. So I'm always
questioning and wondering why. It's probably
more so who I am as an individual. And that started
long before maths was a thing, being a teenager,
right? So it's all about being curious and trying
to understand your surroundings. And going back
to sports here, Orla, how did it shape you? I
liked the energy you feel from... from being
active and fit and running around. I think it
was just part of my DNA having two younger brothers
and as I said we played every type of sport just
well why not just that's what you do and that's
what my brothers did and that therefore that's
what I did and you know I was into more sporty
things than I was into say reading as an example
and so it was just what I So I liked following
sports teams. We were Man Utd soccer fans as
kids. And as I said, you know, when the Olympics
were on, we were all about the Olympics. And,
you know, we grew up watching Linford Christie
being 100 meter sprinter or, you know, so many
athletes. And I suppose what I learned is I liked
the discipline and routine of practicing something
and repeating it. Cricket is not necessarily
a natural thing to say that we played out on
the road or tennis. But when, as I said, when
the sport activity was on, it was popular. But
how to learn how to throw a spin ball was fascinating
to me because, well, I don't know how to do it.
Show me how I can do it, how you could do it.
What does it good look like? And let me keep
practicing. Similarly, I was left handed. So
having people show you play tennis who are right
handed, it was, well, how do I serve if I'm doing
it the opposite way? So again. I enjoyed that
process of figuring something out, understanding
how to do it, and then repeat it and become good
at it. And I suppose the sport element was, well,
it was just what we did as a family. You know,
what I did with my brothers, we liked doing it
together. And I was good. You know, it wasn't
that I, you know, I had to improve always, but
I found it quite natural to try and kick a ball.
I found it natural to hit a tennis ball. And
I found it natural to pitch and put, you know,
so everything I would have tried just because
it, you know, well, my brothers can do it. Therefore,
I can do it. Olympians are so inspiring. And
if you're looking for role models, I would say
look for the TikTok and Instagram accounts of
all those athletes who participated in the Paris
2024 and find someone that can bring inspiration
to your everyday life. And I love how you were
thinking already at that age, Orla, is that if
your brothers can do it, therefore you can do
it. So keeping this mindset of there is space
for me to reach wherever I want to go. You said
you like the discipline of routine, practicing
something and repeating it. What place does discipline
take in your life? Any advice for our listeners
who don't have routines or trying to get? I've
learned to bet myself as I've, you know, reflected,
as I said, you know, I am an introvert, so I
do think an awful lot. I do reflect on what I
enjoy, what I don't and why. And no, if you asked
me as a teenager, you know, do you like the process
and the routine? I probably wouldn't have been
able to articulate that. I probably wouldn't
have been able to describe that for myself. I
can look back and say that is. But I think that's
why. You know, I did try and experiment or try
many things. I wouldn't say I would use the word
experiment. I just tried many things when I was
a kid. Why not? Why shouldn't I? It was, I suppose,
the mentality. As I've gotten older and looked
back, I think what I see and spot the repeating
things are. I do like discipline, you know, and
I've had that even when I say I've lost a job,
I would maintain routine and discipline while
I'm looking for another job. I would pick up
a new sport. I will make sure I get up at the
same time of the day. And, you know, I would
repeat the same thing. So I'm very routine focused.
I need to understand who I am and what am I about,
you know, and try many things. I think that that
is simply what your job is to do as a teenager.
There isn't anything else, really. Calling the
ones who practice any kind of sports, the ones
who are about to start after listening to this
episode. It will allow you to learn how capable
you are to learn something brand new and fail
and stand up again. You will realize that you
can always go above and beyond. You can always
progress. And you will develop some kind of self
-talk where you will just tell yourself you can
make it. And you will... connect to the challenges
in your life. Like all I just said now, you're
able to face that challenge and pick yourself
up and establish a routine and move forward.
I think as I've experimented, I've learned that
I can try something. What's the worst that can
happen? I don't like it. I'm not good at it.
You can call it failed, but you know, I've learned
through the process and I think that's probably
the fundamental. where I've gotten the belief
in myself, right? So that means if somebody asks
me to lift a heavy weight, I may not be able
to do that today in the gym, but I believe in
myself to know that I can incrementally increase
my weights to try and get there. I may not get
there, I may not be successful, I may not succeed,
but I will be successful in my attempt to try
and get there. Similarly, in something in work,
I may not have had a topic being asked of me
before. I mean, I've been asked to kind of solve
a particular problem before, right? But I back
myself and that's the backing of myself and that
belief in myself has come from me trying things.
But again, that being able to describe that as
I've only been able to do that as I've gotten
older. But I think the root of it is I've focused
on what do I enjoy and just keep doing things
that I enjoy when I was a teenager into my twenties.
And that's formed part of me being able to describe.
who I am, what's important to me, and it's helped
me then make decisions. So you're right. There
are foundations that you are creating of yourself.
You're understanding who you are, what you're
not. And that's often where confidence for me
comes from. It's that belief as opposed to I'm
just born with confidence. I was definitely not
as a quiet child, as an introvert, but I slowly
understood how to have my voice. Where do I have
my opinions? What's important to me? And that
has kind of helped guide me. This is incredibly
powerful, Orla. Sports has empowered you to believe
in yourself. And if you were not confident, you
did believe that you were able to learn and try.
How would you empower someone who's telling themselves,
I wish I could be fearless. I wish I could become
fearless. I want to believe in myself as Mircea
Orla does. And I want to start thinking about
what you've been sharing so far, which is what's
the worst that can happen. I would simply get
you to ask that question. What's the worst thing
that can happen? Right. When you look at it,
there is not largely, you know, huge things that
are going to change your life by trying something.
You will figure out, do you like it? Are you
good at it? Do you ever want to do it again?
You know, I traveled around New Zealand after
I finished college and I tried many different
things, many of them sports related, like I decided
to jump out of an airplane. Now, if you asked
me to do it again, I would say never would I
do that again, right? But I wanted to try it
and see. If you asked me to do, so that was a
skydive, if you asked me to do a bungee jump,
I am never going to do a bungee jump. I know
that about myself, that I just had this uncontrollable
fear of being upside down, whereas jumping out
of a plane, I felt I had more control. Logic
doesn't exist. So how I decide, you know, what
makes sense to me is going to be completely different
for somebody else. But I think that fundamental
question of asking yourself, well, what's the
worst that can happen? And, you know, when I
ask that to many people as they're thinking about
many decisions, what's the worst thing that could
happen? And often you find it's the fear of trying
it. But when you break it down and think about
it, well, actually, it's not actually rooted
on anything. I might be embarrassed. I might
fall over. I might make, you know, people might
make fun of me. But so what? So what? Right.
I think you at least you try. And I think you're
better off trying something than saying, and
that's where often people talk about regrets.
You know, do you have regrets? I actually would
describe that I don't have regrets in life because
I focus on what's right, what's my decision right
now. I'll probably make a different decision
if you ask me the same question in a year's time,
but that's okay, right? There's no right or wrong
answer in anything that we're doing. You know,
when you think about we haven't got everything
figured out and you're fluid in that way, trying
something. That's the worst that can happen.
Self -talk is so important. So just keep repeating
this sentence to yourself. What's the worst thing
that can happen? And keep moving forward. Orla,
you did mention that you needed to change school
at some point. You might be listening and seeing
the same change in your life or it might be coming
to you. So Orla, how did it impact you? Any learnings,
takeaways from that experience that you can share
with us? Yeah, so in Ireland we have two state
exams so one after three years and then the other
one is usually after two but when I finished
the first state exam that year they offered what
was called a transition year so it was a non
-curriculum non -exam year and I jumped at it
so there was only 30 people in my school out
of a couple of hundred who decided to do it so
all my friends went on and only 30 people that
I knew stayed to do this extra year before we
started to prepare for the final two -year exam
program. people thought, you know, I was crazy.
I was like, well, you know, what's the worst
that can happen? It's just another year in school.
It's a different type of subjects. It's, I kind
of get to explore different subjects. I, you
know, there's less pressure because there's no
exams at the end of the year. And it helped me,
I think, just have another year to grow up and
learn a bit about myself. So when I came out
of that, I then joined the year that was behind
me as we started to prepare for state exams.
So I was with a whole new cohort of individuals
who I hadn't gone through the previous years
of school with. And I'd learned a bit about myself,
right? And I'd learned about, well, some subjects
I want to really excel at. I thought about maybe
what is it I want to do after school. I thought
about engineering. I thought about architecture.
And I suppose the pivotal moment for me was I
decided actually to leave the school. I'd kind
of had enough of just school, uniforms, schedule
that you couldn't control. I wanted to be a bit
more grown up. So I decided to change schools
that had a bit more flexibility for my final
year. I was questioned certainly by a number
of teachers. You're crazy to make these changes.
And I suppose what I found is I just found my
voice. I found what was. I was able to articulate
why I wanted to go. I was able to have a clear
view of these are the reasons and these are my
reasons. And I went and did that. And I think
it was the start of me, as I would describe it,
as having my voice and learning to kind of think
about what's important and making those decisions
for myself. Not about, you know, often we look
at, well, what are your friends doing? Where
are they going? What are other opinions? I started
to move away from that. I don't think I was ever
very good at doing the same thing that everyone
else is doing, I'll be honest. But at that point,
I was very clear. I wanted to do what was right
for me. So that was a change of school. I had
to commute into the city. Busy time because obviously
you're preparing for exams. So it was a bit of
a risk. But for me, it felt like a calculated
risk. Again, when you think about what's the
worst that could happen, maybe it's not the right
decision. But what would it mean? Maybe I could
repeat my exams and just spend another year again,
but not a big deal, right? I think it was right
for me and it did work out for me in the end.
There is so much pressure for everyone to finish
school as fast as possible. Do not retake a year
with some kind of shame that comes with it if
you actually retake a year. But we don't know
ourselves yet, our aspirations, our goals. So
it's absolutely fine to not take the same road
as everyone else. Orla, when it comes to your
studies, how did you make the decision to study
engineering? What was your thought process? Yeah,
like I mentioned, it was engineering or architecture.
So two very different type paths, right? I suppose
how I decided on engineering, I looked at...
It was a four -year undergraduate program. I
looked at the subjects that I would be studying
because you're going to spend 40 hours a week
for four years. It's a pretty intense course.
So you'd want to really, really like a lot of
the courses. There were some things on the curriculum.
I had to do chemistry, I think, in my first year.
I really struggled with chemistry, didn't like
it. But out of the majority, I felt, OK, I can
get behind it. I'm good at it. If I'm not good,
I will get help. And that's what I did. So I
think I looked at the subjects. I decided also
my logical brain kicked in. I wanted to go to
Trinity College in Dublin. I liked the feel of
the centre location in the city centre, old buildings.
I just liked the connection that I got to it.
But also the real logical was and it was much
closer to home. So my commute was I was able
to stay at home and living at home. It was very
costly to move out. So there was logic, but also
what do I enjoy and like? And there probably
wasn't huge, there was variations of engineering
that I looked at, whether I would study. And
actually what I did was I picked Trinity because
also they had two years of general engineering.
So I got to explore civil engineering, mechanical
engineering, computer engineering. I got to explore
all of them and then I had to make a decision.
So I got an entry point in. But I then I had
another two years to figure out actually what
type of engineering. And that's when I specialized
in mechanical and manufacturing. And I just helped.
I found that helpful. So I wasn't committing
to a particular one off from the get go, because
how do you know at 17, 18, what type of engineer
you want to be? But also engineering, I suppose
what attracted me to it is it's the type of qualification
you could do many things. So I looked at successful
people. that were around me or in Ireland, a
lot of them were engineers. There was engineers
and accountants were the two things. And I was
like, I can't do accounting. I would just be,
you know, just not my thing. Engineering, problem
solving. So that's kind of, there was a bit of
logic, but a lot of what do I enjoy? Because
I said 40 hours a week for four years. And actually
I stayed on to do a postgrad. So I stayed on
to do a PhD. So I spent another four years after
those. So it was eight years in total in Trinity.
Again. I felt I'm going to be working forever
more. And I do feel like that in my 40s, I still
work forever more. So what was another four years
out to just, you know, learn a bit more and explore
and have some more life experiences. So that's
probably how I decided and kind of made decisions
throughout uni as well. So what would your advice
be to someone who does not have an ecosystem
presenting what success could potentially mean
for them? Yeah, like I think everyone has to
follow their own path. Some people will decide
university is not for me. I want to get into
doing a trade. I want to be a plumber. I want
to be a hairdresser. Others will be, you know,
it can be everything and anything. And I think
all of that is OK. But I think you need to do
it with intent and purpose to figure out and
be true to what you want to do. And I want to
also say if you try something and go, I don't
like it. there is no problem changing it right
i would have had many friends and colleagues
who and we are all continually inventing and
reinventing ourselves like there's research out
there that will talk about the skills that we
have today in five years time only 50 of them
are relevant now that that time frame can be
changing the more ai as an example comes in right
so It kind of sometimes doesn't really matter.
It's more about actually what are you doing and
how are you understanding about yourself and
how are you growing as an individual? That's
what's most important. For some people, that's
going to take time. For me, I'm definitely slow,
slow burner on some of that. I need to mull it
over and think through it. Others will have themselves
figured out or others will have highs and lows
and kind of constantly change. All of that is
OK. But I think you can't be looking at what
are others doing? What are your friends doing?
I think you need to start to think about what
is it you want to do and work through that and
be constantly working through that because we
all are. As I said before, we don't have the
answers. Nobody really does. We're just figuring
it out and trying and experimenting. Everyone
used to experiment is still experimenting and
will still experiment. What we invite you to
do is to lead the curiosity in looking for opportunities
and looking for whatever works for you, what
could interest you. It's starting to explore,
to experiment, to find what works. Any advice
you remember receiving at the time? I don't know
if there's anything that, you know, stood out
on that journey I just probably described because
it's long, right? There's definitely moments
of, you know, I would have been used to be very
nervous going into exams. My dad used to share
with me, you know, don't lose your head when
everyone else around you was doing that. And
I had a difficult moment in university where
I actually couldn't write anymore. And I had
an issue with my hand after a couple of injuries
from playing basketball. So I had to be in a
room on my own to do my exam. then I didn't have
my dad's advice of looking around those around
me because I was now on my own and I was in my
own head. So I had to learn and think about,
well, I'm here stuck. What do I do? So it's back
to kind of, I suppose my logic helps me to back
myself and work through. I often speak with coaches
who help me, managers who help me, and people
often describe, Orla, you're actually coaching
yourself. I tend to do that a lot. I tend to
ask myself the questions and reflect internally
about what those answers might be and mull them
over and think about it. So there's many, many
components to that. What you just described is
self -talk and it's incredibly important. And
for you who are listening to us, if you want
to actually have visuals of how self -talk looks
like. Check out last year's Olympics. Some of
the footage of athletes starting to get ready
for a run, for a jump. You'll see them talk to
themselves. You can jump. You have prepared for
this. You can do it. It's just a race. You've
prepared for this your whole life. Or any kind
of sentences. You just have to re -watch it.
And looking at this example of Orla's. They have
been doing it for years. Some of them have been
training for decades, if not more, and they still
need this self -talk. And here we should learn
from them. We need the self -talk in our day
-to -day when something challenging is about
to take over or starts. Yeah, no, and I often,
you know, I chat to athletes. I connect with
them. I spend some time helping the Irish women's
rugby team as they were coming together a couple
of years ago. So it's... It's fascinating what
sports athletes, men and women have to go through
to be the top of their discipline. And they are
the tiny, tiny percentage to be where they are.
And we all as mere mortals can't all be Olympic
athletes, but we can learn a lot from that discipline
and that routine. And you will often hear them
talk about, they don't think about the four year
goal. They think about, again, breaking things
down. What are the things they can focus on the
here and now? They very much live in that moment.
You often hear athletes talking about how to
get over a disappointment, how to learn from
it, not to ride the highs and not to ride the
lows. They're incredibly. valuable lessons right
and they're not coming out of those they're not
creating those lessons those lessons haven't
been learned over time and because they're not
helpful they 100 % are they fine -tuned their
art so I think for us you know again mere mortals
to be able to look and see I'm definitely not
I'd love to have been reborn to be able to be
an Olympic athlete I'd love to have you know
somewhere had that. coach maybe that spotted
some opportunity but what i've been able to do
is well i i you know i may not be that athlete
but i can find my path to be the best me that
i can possibly be and what i back is that i can
push i can you know and simply when i'm in the
gym often what i need to do is turn my head off
because my head will go can't can't lift this
weight can't do another rep too tired All the
things that come into your head about, you know,
busy life, work is hard, doesn't matter. You
turn that brain off, you actually are physically
able to do things. So when you stress test yourself,
you're physically and mentally able to do an
awful lot more than you think. It's just what's
that inner story saying I can't. But if you ask
kind of again back to the, you know, what's the
worst thing that can happen or let me just not
overthink it, I'm going to try. I had to learn
that on the bike an awful lot I tried to do some
downhill races again I wasn't very good but it
meant I was looking at these rock faces trying
to figure out how am I going to ride down them
and it was literally turn the brain off what's
the worst can happen okay you could argue bad
things could happen but I am, you know, I am
actually capable of doing this. It's actually
my brain is telling me. I'm not putting myself
in a position of trying to do something that
I'm not doing. But, you know, I progressed through
that. I learned, I used to build little jumps
to help me learn how to jump and get the jumps
higher and higher. You know, so again, the kind
of practice makes perfect. But I think I find
that fascinating that what's our limiting factor?
What is it we're not capable of doing? And what
is it we think we're not capable of doing? I
think. actually we are capable a lot more than
we think and i think that's across the board
at every age at every stage of our lives and
if you have that as you know in your teenage
years well you know how much pressure that can
relief have how much you know power that can
give you and you're only at the beginning of
this journey and you know who knows what it could
be maybe you could be the next olympic athlete
Maybe you could be an astronaut in space. Anything
is actually possible. But I think if you lead
with that excitement and possibility, wow, like,
you know, sky's the limit, really. You are capable
of much more than you think. And the sky is the
limit. And this translates perfectly to your
studies. You have to put the work in to understand
a concept in any class and that you will master
that class and then you will ace the exam. And
there is no doubt that you will manage any upcoming
exam and challenge within those classes. And
it will take a lot of work. And think about it.
The athletes are putting so much work into preparing
for a game. So try to put as much work as possible
to prepare for an exam. Yeah. Yeah. And also
I think, look, exams while you're preparing for
them, and it's easy for me to say, you know,
many, many years later, but they're not the end
of the world, right? The pressure that we do
put on ourselves. So, yeah, me looking back,
it would be, look, just continue to be you. You
know, you're okay as you are. I would also kind
of, you know, say not everybody has it all figured
out. And I think they're important things to
remind ourselves on. But by not trying, I think
that's the worst thing that you could do. Especially
in teenage years, there's no commitments, there's
no restrictions. There's some restrictions in
life, but there's not restrictions as you become
older and have families or whatever. And I think
it's a perfect time to... to experiment and try
and see what you like, see what you don't like.
And again, what's the worst that can happen?
Trying to know yourself, trying to understand
yourself, trying to identify what drives you
and to more or less code Orla. Is it problem solving?
Is it following an engineer path? We almost wrapped
up on your high school teenage years. I just
want to chat a bit more about it to understand
how are your grades? How did you manage to go
to Trinity where you were brilliant students
in high school to make it to this degree? So
I wouldn't describe I was a brilliant student
in teenage years or even into college or even
into postgrad or even now. I don't think I'm
naturally the type who was brilliant right from
the get -go. I think so certainly as I went through
school and the same as I went through the four
years of engineering, I got better each time.
I got better as the years went on. So my best
results were in my finals in college. But that
was based on failures and on the way. No, I didn't
fail an exam. I got some low grades that just
on the tip of I nearly failed, but I didn't.
I think that was always my goal, not to have
to spend my summer repeating an exam. Not the
worst thing that happened, but I just found I
would like that. That's what I'm aiming is not
if I'm not good at a particular subject, my minimum
standard I'm setting myself is just pass it.
Just get through it so I don't have to do this
again in the summer. And I used my summer holidays.
But what I was then able to do was, OK, I've
learned a bit more. I've learned a bit more.
Some of my subjects changed as I went from second
year into third year. So some of them started
again for third year. Fourth year in engineering.
But I was constantly fine tuning. How do I tend
40 hours? How do I manage tutorials, labs? What
is my kind of my process through that? Learning
more as I went head away, learn faster, head
away. regurgitate repeat remember understand
because it is very intense right and there's
many courses that are very intensive to learn
a lot and prepare for exams so no absolutely
i improved as i went along i was not a student
from from from the beginning you don't need to
be brilliant you need to be ready to go to the
next level and work towards it and if you think
that you're not good enough still go for it.
You never know what can happen and what the worst
can happen, right? Well, what's your recommendation
here? Would you recommend students to just apply
and check if the path could be a fit, focusing
on passing, not necessarily excelling? Would
it be focusing on discovering what they like
the most, what are the interests, instead of
getting the best, best grades? Well, it's what
worked for me when I wasn't good at something.
It didn't naturally click. Chemistry was definitely
an example of that. I didn't understand it, didn't
like it. I probably had a negative story that
I was telling myself about it because it's not,
in theory, it's not hard. I was doing many subjects
that would be at the same, let's say, level as
it. So that was my way through it. I'm not saying
that that's everyone just now needs to go and
focus on passing. as a bare minimum, I think
that would be a shame. But that was my technique
to handle where I had subjects that I wasn't
naturally strong at, right? I think what you've
got to do is figure out and understand how the
system works, which is you've got tutorials,
you've got probably lab work and you've got assignments
and all of it equates to your final end year
result. Usually that's kind of how it works.
There might be slight differences in different
courses, different universities, different subjects.
By and large, you need to understand what is
expected of you to get through this course, to
get the grades that you want, right? I think
we all intend to go and pick a course to get
through it. We don't go in to fail it. I think
that's just a waste of time. And so I think most
people, their intent is to get through this,
to get a good result. So then you need to figure
out what does that mean? So where do you need
to pay attention? So for example, if in engineering,
they had to get us to write essays, which thankfully
they didn't. I knew I was going to be, that was
going to be a hard one, right? But in engineering,
we didn't. What I said, there was subjects like
chemistry, which I didn't get. So I had to find
my way. So I think you will, as you think through
maybe what course you want to go for, you're
thinking about the subjects that you will study,
where are you going to be good at? I don't know.
I think it's unrealistic to say everybody is
good at everything. We're just human, right?
People might around you think, oh, I have this
figured out. It's easy. The course is easy. And
you're thinking going home every evening going,
this is not easy. This is really hard. It doesn't
matter what other people think. It doesn't matter.
I think you need to pay attention to the story
you're telling yourself and why. Maybe the story
is, well, you know, I don't like it. Well, have
you actually put some time and effort into it?
Maybe you need to adjust your study. guide and
say okay the amount of hours you're spending
on this particular subject maybe you need to
think about how am I scored at the end of the
year maybe it's assessments actually where I
can pick up some of my points as an example so
I think it's just to figure out the system that
you're within and then what are your techniques
you can't just go along and it'll all be fine
you also can't just look at everybody else and
do what they're doing you are an individual you
are unique you have your own strengths You need
to figure out what's your plan to get through
it and be successful. And again, that's back
to the little steps of, you know, did I get through
this week? Did I get the extra hours I wanted
to in chemistry? In my example, what is your
goal? What are you trying to achieve and succeed
in? And how are you actually doing that? I think
they're the important questions to ask yourself.
Are you setting yourself up for success? Or are
you just sitting back and going, I'm not good
at this. That's it. It's fine. And to be fair,
I would have had friends in college who did that.
And what happened? They probably usually failed
those subjects. They then had to spend the summer.
And they were bright people, right? They weren't
capable. They just didn't put the effort in.
And they had to spend their summer. And that
was my non -negotiable. This is a tough course,
many hours. I don't want to keep doing this all
summer. I want the summer off and just do something
fun. So that's how I made sure it. It worked
out the way I wanted it to work out. I could
not agree more. Focus on your learning. Focus
on your learning strategy and find your own way.
Try different options, test them and see what
works for you. And it might be different from
the one class to another. And it might be different
from the person that's sitting next to you, even
if it's your closest friend or the person you've
known your whole life. You are unique. So don't
expect that the approach that the person has,
the person who has been sitting next to you and
going through all those years together can work
for you. You have to find your own way. You have
to identify your own learning process. Find what
works for you and stay consistent. Stay, stay
consistent in your approach. Goes back to the
sport approach, you know, of repeating consistently
to become better. And thank you all again for
the great reminder. And yes. It is unrealistic
to say that everybody is great at everything.
You can only do the best you can. But, but, but,
but, do pay attention to the story you tell yourself.
As all I rightfully said, when you say, I don't
like it, I'm not good at it, try to understand
why. Is it the teaching style of the person who's
been teaching you your English class or any other
class? Is it your lack of understanding? Don't
stop there. Try to understand why, why are you
telling this to yourself? Orla, during your studies,
did you have any inspiring teachers? Someone
who impacted you somehow? I think I was probably
in awe of all professors and lecturers in university.
I think it was, I thought it was fascinating
that they could spend often decades in their
field, had a passion to... I would say mostly
had a passion to educate others. And there was
still so much more that their areas could be
researched in. I thought researching, you know,
that kind of discipline was fascinating that
we don't know everything and things can advance.
And so I probably held them on high regard, all
professors. And I didn't necessarily have a plan.
to stay on and do a post -grad. When I finished
my finals, I went to Chicago for the summer on
a J1, worked in a coffee shop, selling an internet
cafe, selling coffee. I never drank coffee. I'm
sure I made the worst coffee in the world. But
it was great fun. It was about a gang of us living
in a house, you know, typical, why don't you
do Irish, going to the summer for the States.
I came back. thought about oh I have to write
a CV I don't I don't really want to write a CV
went in to see my professor of my final year
project and he said would you consider staying
on to do master's or a PhD and I was like that's
not a bad thing and I think I liked the fact
that he asked and I think that rings true in
my career even now when someone says actually
I think you could be good at helping me solve
this I like that I like that my ability to do
something is seen by others. I get satisfaction
and reward from that. And so I decided, yeah,
why not? I'll be working forever more. I was
given a student's stipend, so I got some money,
eventually got a scholarship. And I thought this
was great, you know, to be able to do that. So
I think all lecturers I felt held in high regard.
particularly my supervisor, from final year into
my postgrad. Would you have signed up for postgrad
without your supervisor's guidance, suggestion
there? Probably not. No, I don't think it was
something on my mind. I don't know if we were,
you know, doing our final year, if it was something
that was talked to us about enough. There was
obviously postgrads who were around us. They
did tutorials with the undergrads. They were
in the labs. So we were around them, but it was
never, I wasn't sure what needed to be done to
be, to study, to do a PhD or a master's. I probably
didn't fully understand the difference between
taught master's and research master's. But no,
I don't think I would have thought about it.
I probably would have gone off and have to write
a horrible CV, you know, and I didn't have huge,
I didn't do work experience during college the
way a lot of people would, you know, go for internships.
My, during college summer holidays was, well,
I went to Chicago to work in an international
cafe. I worked in Germany one summer to making
beds. You know, they are not skills necessarily
that you would say big consulting houses would
or engineering companies would go. It's a great
person who's done an internship somewhere. And,
you know, so I often find it fascinating when
people in college talk about internships that,
you know, I worked in the bookshop, local bookshop
when I finished my state exams. You know, it
was very basic. It wasn't about what am I building
for my CV. I didn't know how to write a CV when
I finished college, really. So no, I think I
wouldn't have pursued that unless I'd got in
that day. I had it in my mind. I don't really
want her to deceive me. And then when he suggested,
what do you think about it? And I said, why not?
I think I kind of really decided on the spot
or I came home and told my parents. And I was
like, I think I'm going to go and do postcard.
If you can identify a trusted advisor, someone
who can slightly guide you when you're not sure
where to go next, do reach out to them. And it
can be a teacher. the friend of a friend, someone
slightly older, or someone who graduated from
your program. And right before that, try to understand
what you like, what you dislike, so that the
person can get you best. Or like you said, that
you still consider yourself as an engineer. Is
that a state of mind or a way of thinking? Yeah,
absolutely. State of mind by thinking, I just,
there's not many words I connect to. I probably,
I would use that more often than anything else.
Introvert is a difficult word. I use it typically
because people, it helps other people as opposed
to helping me. So I think people, when they hear
that word, they can go, oh, actually somebody
can be successful or can lead, you know, at one
point I led 150 people in my career, right? So
you can be an introvert. and be a successful
leader in in large company and so if that label
i use to help others it's it's not necessarily
a helpful label for me i think the only other
label i would use is engineer it's just a word
that i enjoy i connect to and it's interesting
my husband will you know he's also an engineer
but and we talk about kind of computer science
world and software engineers and i feel very
differently about it i think The problem solving
of what I did in engineering and college has
stood to me through every career. And I've had
many industries, many different companies, and
it's just breaking a problem down into pieces
and how to put things back together. That is
the essence of who I was as a kid based on what
I studied in school through college and just
who I am as an individual. So when you think
about the beginning of how I am as a kid and
how I am now. It doesn't matter the path between
it. What's common is I solve problems. I break
things down and I figure it out. And that's just,
that's just me. That's the essence of me as a
person. And it'll come across in everything that
I do, whether it is in the gym, whether I'm out
in the garden and I'm, you know, renovating or
I'm building a concrete or a block wall or I'm
laying concrete. It's all logic through, through
kind of, and I, and I just. I enjoy that. I get
great satisfaction from figuring something out
and being able to do it. And it could be the
simplest things of seeing smooth concrete. To
me, it's just fascinating that I've had to get
all the levels right. I've had to figure out
what the mix is. I'm not doing it all on my own.
I'm doing it with my husband. You know, and I
find that then you look back at the weekend and
go, that's great. You know, and you go into work
the next day and people ask, well, how was your
weekend? And I'm thinking, how do I just tell
people that I, you know, lifted five bags of
cement and made concrete and got joy out of seeing
it nice and smooth at the end of the day? But
that's, I think it's just, I've gotten very comfortable
with who I am, what's important to me. And it
just then becomes, it shines through in everything
that you do. Right. And then it just makes your
decisions, your life. It's just you're just being
you. You're being your authentic self. And there's
no other way to be. Could not agree more. Thank
you, Orla. So let's deep dive into your career
path. So you started as an engineer and then
you move into a consultant role in finance. Can
you tell us about Booth? So when I finally then
came out of college, so after eight years, I
was like, I better use this engineering and try
something. I knew I would never just always stay
in engineering. So that was never a thing that
I felt I had to always do. I knew I would try
it and that there would be many fields. I felt
I was not limited. And that was part of the choice
of engineering and also mechanical engineering.
But there I went, I went off and tried it. I
was making diamonds that are on cutting tools
called synthetic diamonds. Not the shiny, nice
diamonds that you see on engagement rings. This
is the type of diamond that looks like a grain
of sand on your fingernails. That was a hard
job. I was the only female engineer. It's an
environment where it's a plant, it's a factory.
You've hard hat safety boots. You don't see daylight.
You know, there's no windows. And you're working
with operators who've been there for 40 plus
years. I am the young engineer who's coming into
an experiment and asked me to do things different
and differently. And it was fascinating to, for
me, how to build relationships with people. And
actually I did that as I shared, oh, you know,
people ask, what did you do for the weekend?
I was at a bike race or I was on the bike or
I was traveling over to the UK. And you just
start to make connections with people. So I started
to make connections really quickly with people
by just being myself and just knowing that I
was being really a pain in people's. behind because
I was maybe increasing their process time you
know by 2x and they just didn't like having to
do that and I get it right and so it was hard
I had some hard moments and this I'm always grateful
for the first boss that I had in there because
it's the lesson I always share with people um
and he introduced me to some to a summer intern
and said this is Orla she's relatively new you
can learn from her mistakes oh So how do you
manage those kind of situations? So I started
to learn again as an individual how to handle
difficult moments, how to speak up, what was
my voice, how to handle where I felt that people
had misunderstood me, hadn't read me correctly.
And I think it was highly empowering while really
difficult. And again, I know I always use it
as my example. But it helped me understand and
again question, well, someone's made a statement
about me. It's actually true and I need to go
off and think about it. But then it helped me
think about how do I actually deal with this
difficult moment? Because look, life is hard.
You're always going to have difficult moments.
You're going to have difficult people. You're
going to have people who misread you, misunderstand
you. And I think, again, back to the more that
you understand yourself, the easier it is to
actually, well, do you know what? thanks for
that call out but I think you've gotten me wrong
and here are my reasons why here is my original
tent and what I said or what I did or whatever
the situation is so I learned to again for my
voice to kind of come through and to your question
of why change well it was a it was a difficult
time in manufacturing in Ireland the plant actually
was going through strike action so you know I
felt look there's many places I could be working
do I want to work in somewhere that you know,
is going to be difficult, continue to be difficult
in a hard moment. So I just said, look, time
is now to move on. And I think I'm probably driven
a lot by when I get bored, I make changes. I
probably got bored a little bit there too. And
so I, yeah, I decided and I moved into kind of
financial world. So completely different industry.
Did question whether it was the right thing for
my CV. You know, I've only been a short period
of time, but look. I've jumped a couple of times
to different industries and many different companies.
It's always an interesting talking point when
I talk to people about, you know, next role.
They're often curious to wonder why. But I think
I've got a story that I'm interested in. Why
not? I'm not bound to a particular industry.
Actually, I've found strength from being able
to demonstrate that I can work in many industries
as opposed to I'm only in one place. And I think
that is a unique skill that I can bring versus
others who may not have to reinvent themselves
many times. You underlined something so, so important,
which was understanding yourself allows you to
speak out. So Anna, for the people who are listening
to us and who are still looking for their voice,
how do you proceed to find it? Did you have a
mentor? What did you learn from him or her? I
did have a mentor. So that example I talked about,
I brought that up to the MD of the company and
I did have a mentor as all new engineers into
the company did. It helped. I think it helped
to talk the situation out. But what I quickly
learned was not much is going to change. So it's
great to have somebody to talk it out. And I
suppose it's where I've learned that the culture
of where you work and the environment that you
work is incredibly important. And that stands
back to, can you be your authentic self as well?
So they're kind of two, my two non -negotiables
when I'm looking for somewhere is, can I be my
authentic self? And, you know, what is the environment,
the culture of somewhere that you will work?
I need it to bring out the best in me. I need
to bring out the best in others. So yes, it's
great to have mentors, but if somewhere isn't
necessarily right. And it'll never change no
matter how many mentors you have. And I think
what you do, mentors help you to get clear on
you as opposed to necessarily anything else.
So that was kind of how I approached it. But
yeah, I've always had support systems around
me. Sometimes they've made a difference, sometimes
not. But I think it's always back to backing
myself and figuring my way through it. Thank
you. And what advice would you give someone who's
trying to change sectors and facing challenges,
pushbacks from hiring team, not understanding
those changes? So I suppose I've tried to make
sure that my jumps, so my changes or my changes
of role are not so spiky. Let's say, right, that
they appear. Oh, it looks like after six months
off, she went again. Six months off, she went
again. So when I read CVs as I hire and have
hired over the last three years, there can always
be a story behind something. But I think you
want to see progression. You want to see a bit
of longevity. Maybe it's promotion within a company.
Maybe it's different titles. Maybe it's different
experiences, different initiatives you've worked
with. You want to see depth of experience. So
that's one thing I would have made sure and I
still would do that I don't, you know, if situations
arise that there is a short hop, that's fine.
But so typically I would, I would try and not
make that, make that not the case. And I think
then I, I've been clear as I described those
who don't know me, the reasons why, what was
I, why was I leaving? So was I seeking bigger
scope? Was I, you know, role had plateaued. There
was no promotion was going to take, you know,
long time. And they're part of my stories, right,
in reasons why I've left. Or I was looking for,
you know, just different problems to solve. And
I could do the same things again and again, but
I just wanted a new challenge. So I think because
I've made those decisions intentionally, purposely,
I'm able to tell that story. But it is fascinating.
I would say 99 % of the time there is very curiosity
about, well, you've worked in many places, many
different industries. Why is that the case? So
I think that is probably more so on the unusual
side versus, I think people change roles a lot.
I am, through my career, I haven't become, and
sometimes that can be difficult. I'm not a subject
matter expert on one thing, right? I can solve
many problems, but it means I'm seeking to understand
what problems an employer is looking to solve.
And therefore, that sounds interesting. Haven't
done that before. I could do that. Right. But
you then have to convince somebody who doesn't
know you. And obviously, the more senior you
get, you rely on networks and introductions and
people vouching for you to say, well, actually,
Orla would be a great person to do this. She
may not have done exactly that, but she will
figure that out and get that right for you. But
I'm in a different stage in career. So I think
it's back to, you know, I watch not having jumps
very quickly, not to say that you can't, but
I think having intentional steps and having a
clear reason why you left somewhere and why you
joined another company or the different stages
of your career, I think are important because
you will be asked forevermore, not on every step,
but to be able to articulate. how you've made
those decisions right which means you need to
understand yourself back as what we described
so it's no different than picking a subject picking
a university course or a path after school whatever
that may be you need to be clear on why it is
otherwise you won't stick with it and then you
won't be able to tell people why you've made
that choice and where you want to get to and
I think as we you go through further in your
career you need to rely on that voice more so
than mentors or people helping you managers and
coaches they are there to facilitate a role but
actually they're driven by what are you asking
for so you might say i want to get more experience
i want to become a people manager okay well that's
going to take some time so how do we get you
some exposure to helping people to kind of you
know mentoring others so you you kind of you
work towards it but you've got to be able to
have that voice of what of what you want Similarly,
what subject you want, why you want it, what
course you want to do. Being clear on the why
I think is important. So can you tell us about
your own next jump in Big Tech? How did your
success look like there? So it was interesting.
I didn't necessarily intend to jump out of. So
I jumped out of engineering into the financial
world. I didn't intend to jump straight away
into the tech world, but I was made redundant.
interview and I stayed focusing on the financial
sector but this is back in 2008 the financial
crisis in Ireland so I've gone from you know
manufacturing that wasn't great then into banking
finance that wasn't great and I'm saying okay
I don't really want to jump again but here I
am and so I did apply for many roles in finance
didn't get them because I think people also didn't
understand didn't understand what I could bring.
and then came across Google and I remember I
had bought myself because I was into the biking
I bought myself a little dirt jump bike to learn
how to bunny hop and I remember telling friends
as I was learning and they were you know asking
how are the interviews going and I said oh I
had one great one it was Google there's no way
I'm going to get Googled up and I did and it
was a magical time I think just even getting
the job the confidence boost that is released
in me from the day you go in, you do feel, you
know, just part of this group, very smart people.
I was definitely not the top bar, but, you know,
I think you always, for me, I always seek to
be surrounded by more senior and much smarter
people. I think you can learn an awful lot. And
Google was definitely that for me. I was still,
you know, still very new in my career, you know,
hadn't had a lot of structure from a career perspective.
So I found it fascinating. And yeah, it evolved
to be many different things. And I think the
opportunities arose, which was really helpful.
And I had probably, when I look back, I probably
didn't push myself. to progress my career quick
and fast enough. But that was my lesson to learn
over those eight years. I did have progression,
but again, I think I probably could have done
it quicker and sooner. So yeah, tech was not
necessarily by choice. It's where I ended up,
but really enjoyed the environment, the culture,
the atmosphere. I think the timing of it was
just right for me and where it was. So certainly
a fascinating time. And I, you know, I learned
a lot again about myself. You know, you surround
yourself by very smart people. It's always interesting
to see where your tipping point is. The way you
share this part of your life, Orla, is very inspiring.
You put your interests first, learning a new
skill for one of your passions. So my question
here is, do you have any advice for anyone who
tends to go all in for jump hunting? forgetting
themselves and their interests along the way.
So I've had two redundancy moments in my career
so far, and I'll say so far because there's always,
it can always happen again, unfortunately, right?
And I've probably kept them very simple. I've
just done me. And I think it was interesting,
often people ask you, what course did you do?
Did you travel? Where did you go? I didn't travel
anywhere. I didn't do any course. I, you know,
didn't. I think the other one I got asked was
like, did you bake clothes? And I'm like, no.
And I was just, you know, so the first time,
as I described, got the bike and was learning
to bunny hop. So that was about six months. Similarly,
this time, this more recent time was about five
and a bit months when I, and you had a job, you
know, halfway maybe through that. But I just.
I kept things very simple. I think it's a stressful
time figuring out whether you have employment
or not to figure out your next role. It takes
time. Certainly for me, it does. You're trying
to assess a company. You're trying to assess
a role. You're trying to assess the individuals
you're going to work with. And all of that takes
time, energy. Sometimes you may get it right.
Sometimes you may not. But I think, you know,
no career is static. People come and go in organizations.
You make a decision based on the information
that you have, which is, you know, when you interview,
it's quite a short, limited amount of time. And
then you, you know, as I've done, as I back myself
to figure out, again, a new industry and new
sector, new company. And it's not rocket science,
I suppose, is the story I tell myself. Right.
And I suppose I feel there's probably very few
jobs that I couldn't do. I have a brother who's
a doctor. Okay, I definitely can't do that. 100
% no, that's the case. But everything else I
think is probably potentially fair game. So let
me at least try it is kind of, again, my mentality
with new jobs. But to kind of the gap moments,
yeah, I've kept it simple. Keep my routine, keep
doing what I enjoy and like, which is always
being something active. And then, you know, you
do some time. some part of the day head down
finding your role thinking about next what's
going on where are you going who are you meeting
but I remember I was given advice um a couple
of years ago I should be meeting four people
a week or four people you need to talk to four
new people a week I was like why four like and
like just random people just just make sure you
fork everyone's like I can't do that like It
was a few weeks that I talked to people. I was
just like, I can't talk to people anymore. I
just need a break. Or, you know, I'd meet somebody
through a referral, through somebody else, through
somebody else. And I remember driving home on
one of those occasions going, how did I get here?
That was a useless conversation, like useless.
So you go back to actually, you know, why am
I meeting someone? What can they potentially
unlock for me? So rather than getting carried
away with the phase or fad of, are you traveling?
Are you doing loads? Are you going to take a
year out? You know, no, my intention is to keep
working and to work again quickly because actually
I would like to retire at a reasonable age and
just not get lost in the process of what people
are telling me and figure out actually, you know,
four is just nonsense. I can't do four people,
you know. It's hard work trying to find something
new. Whatever number I come up with, it's not
going to be a predefined number. It's going to
be based on what's right. So again, it's back
to me doing me, figuring out my way through it.
I've done that through the jobs. I'm in the non
-job moment, right, when there is a gap. This
is inspiring. You stood up for yourself and said
that that was not working for you. Would you
say that it's your way to practice resiliency
somehow? during those difficult times when you're
facing redundancy for example yeah yeah i think
backing myself being resilient you know figuring
things out it's uh it's always i'm always at
my best when i do things in it in the way that
leverage my best as opposed to i get wound up
and this is what i should be doing or this is
what everybody else is doing none of that actually
matters because if i try and do the other way
it's just not going to work right so it's getting
clear again on on the e and doing it my way now
that's not to say look I'm going to be rogue
and you know go crazy but it's being true to
myself and finding my path through which it takes
me six months seven months to ten months to find
a new job well that's just the way it is if it's
you know I'm in a job trying to figure out the
next one whatever amount of time it is, it is
okay, whatever number of interviews. Similarly,
if I, you know, had decided to change courses,
equally that was okay. So I think our decisions
are unique to us in those moments in time. And
do you have any advice for the one who wants
to go into tech and have no idea where to start?
They don't know what their required skills are.
I listened to a fascinating talk last week in
work where we had a career week. And it was a
woman from the US. She came in to talk about
all the different technologies that exist. And
she's like, you're never going to figure them
all out. You're never going to know them all.
You just need to figure out maybe what are the
ones that are important to you. But what she
did talk about is actually how do you get focus
time on yourself and how do you be creative?
And I think that's a fascinating way to think
about the future is to balance we are always
on. right so the stats she shared is about between
every 6 and 11 minutes we're being distracted
by something in our life and it's usually technology
right and when you do get distracted it takes
you 23 minutes to get back into the activity
that you're actually doing so think about that
right and there's a stat out there that says
approximately 2600 times in a day you're going
to get distracted and when you get distracted
it's almost like you get this endorphin rush
and it's like you're you know, you're seeking
this kind of next thing. So we have a really
bad habit in society now of being constantly
busy, constantly always on. And I think that
is going to become harder no matter what career
you're in, what sector, what industry. So it's
how do you get clear on, again, how do you want
to show up, right? And another example that this
individual shared last week is, say, for example,
do you want to use an AI tool to help you manage
your calendar? Depending on what tool, what AI
tool you use, AI tools are built as we know on,
you know, they're trained and they learn and
they're built on the methodology that the builder
wants you to have. So it might be large focus
blocks of time. Another AI provider on your calendar
might be actually give you loads of breaks between
meetings. What one is you versus what the AI
developer has decided this is what they want
to build, right? I think unless we have the risk
of losing our true identity, our true selves,
just because it's next tool, next thing, next
thing, right? So it's, again, for me, I think
no matter what industry you are in, skills need
to constantly be fine -tuned and evolved, irregardless
of sector, irregardless of if we're in this AI
world or not. We should be doing that and always
doing that. That doesn't mean we need to be...
you know absolutely obsessive about what course
are you learning what are you doing I think you
can equally evolve yourself you know as what
I've described um today it's not based on I would
call active learning right I'm reflecting on
life experiences and I think being acutely tuned
into how you are as an individual how do you
feel in a particular moment? Why did you react
the way you reacted? What do you enjoy? What
do you want to do more or less of? That's not
based on an AI tool or a particular skill, right?
And I think having that true sense will help
you determine maybe it is the tech industry.
What will the tech industry look like in five
years time? Who knows? What will any industry
or sector look like? Who knows, right? So they're
all unknowns that you can control versus what
you can control is who are you, what do you enjoy
as an individual, where are you good at? And
what you need to be good at will constantly change
a lot of, but you need to have that appetite
and that willingness. It was interesting, I was
at a couple of weeks ago, a cloud summit. It
was actually in Google, a Google AI summit actually.
There was a panel and there was university lecturers
on the panel as well as industry experts. And
they were asked about what skills will be needed
into the future. And it's not what we all taught
in the audience, technology, tech skills. It's
actually being able to handle change and ambiguity.
So what you will need in the go forward is, shit,
it's going to change. Shit's going to happen.
World's not great. Something is, life is hard.
It's being able to. to live through those moments
is actually what's going to stand to you. And
we saw a lot of that through the likes of COVID,
right? Difficult moment, difficult time in society.
So many examples where, you know, like nieces
and nephews who were born during that time and
seeing the differences in how they interact in
the world, right? But I think it's being able
to handle those skills of change, ambiguity,
is what will see you through no matter what happens
in life. So seize opportunities for you to constantly
have to adapt, to raise a new challenge, to embrace
ambiguity and move towards the skills that the
job market, that our environment is asking from
us. Going back to sports now, Orla, can you tell
us a little bit more about your involvement in
Parkit? Yeah, so I'm a couple of years in to
be on the board of Parkit. And so Parkit is a...
not -for -profit organization where it brings
resistance training to local parks so we have
seven locations around dublin so these are free
and and the idea is the world health organization
not only recommends cardiovascular activity but
also weight training activity and it's been hugely
important for people as they grow old and to
maintain muscle mass and there's so many um known
implications by the improvements they can have
so the idea with park it is to remove some of
those barriers so financial barriers is one as
an example so there is it's community -based
it's in a local park and which means you just
sign up to attend and there's instructors that
lead the the session and so i think it As I started
to think about, you know, what I enjoy, what
I like, I was like, okay, there's a definite
trend of fitness being active and technology,
right, and how technology advances our lives
or improves our lives. And both of those statements
are very broad, but it meant I, you know, as
I look to kind of, well, what else could I get
involved in? Not necessarily something that I'm
paid to do. How can I, you know, help others
was kind of my motivator. And it's where I landed
on with Parkit and I was fortunate then to be
selected onto the board. So look, it's, you know,
it's still very early days in terms of seven
locations. It's got an aspiration and a lot of
viewers, listeners may have heard of Parkrun,
which is similar in that there are 5K runs that
are actually many locations around the world.
And so the idea is to try and build that. How
do you develop the business case to be able to
scale it and grow it? How do you make sure that
you maintain the culture, the connection, the
importance of the weight training element? So
yeah, it's just, I suppose, in a way to give
back, to help, you know, to develop the business
model and see where it can potentially go. Can
I just give you the floor to try to convince
anyone who's listening to us who has never practiced
any sport or doesn't have a routine? or doesn't
think about making it a priority, well, what
should they know? Well, I nearly seek to be understanding
someone's reason for not doing any type of fitness
activity, right? I would seek to understand why
is there no activity in your life? Because look,
there's so much research out there. You know,
it's the connection with nature. It's the physical
improvements in our lives. in the well -being
it's connecting with other people the social
side of things there's so many ways that sports
you know connect playing on the team development
and you know like from from kids at such a young
age to be active and into sports and music and
arts I think all of that is incredibly important
it's always frustrating that as people become
you know that bit older into teenage years especially
girls lose that connection I'm not encouraged
to continue that I wish I was probably encouraged
to continue to play more. I had a gap in that
when I was in college years, I didn't play any
sport. I would have gone to the gym to train,
but I wouldn't have played any sport. And I think
that was a miss. So I think it would be seeking
to understand why people don't want to invest
in being active of any type. And then just seeing
with them, you know, there's got to be something
that they could benefit in their lives from.
I think just the... the satisfaction, the return
and investment is just so important. And, you
know, we spend so much of our lives indoors,
working, studying. There's much more to life
than in just that, right? So for me, being active
in sport plays a huge part of it. And I know
I'm not even doing it justice in how I'm describing
it. There's a lot more experts out there that
will tell you all the reasons why you should
be active. Hopefully, you are as inspired as
I am. So start somewhere, wherever you can, whenever
you can. Daily, weekly, monthly. Stay consistent.
We're almost reaching the end of the episode.
So Orla, let's deep dive into your current role
now. Can you tell us about your role, the people
you're managing, and everything that's around
your responsibilities? So I'm with Flutter Entertainment,
which is a parent company of some of the largest
scaling and daily brands across the globe. And
I've been with them since January of last year.
So actually, I'm not leading people. So where
I previously was in leading 150 people, I'm now
not leading. I'm leading myself and I. That's
not to say I'm not working. with people across
the board, right? So I don't work in isolation
by any stretch. And I'm actually enjoying the
change. I'm actually enjoying change of industry,
change of role. And I'm focusing on how we can
build a collaborative marketing strategy across
the brands that run in what's called a federating
model. So each of our brands are like individual
companies, their own P &Ls, their own CEOs. But
we've got similar problems and challenges across
the marketing space. So obviously what my background
in the likes of Google and Meta has helped me
kind of think about some of these spaces and
kind of common problems. So again, back to common
problems, breaking things down, figuring out
what we want to do and put it back together again.
And part of it is the journey that you bring
people through. I really enjoy that, right? So
where is the concept we want to get to? Where
is the future's end state? What could this be?
How do we push beyond where we are today? I find
those things fascinating. Again, back to evolving,
changing. Where are we going next? What could
it be? And how do you then bring people through
it? We may be successful. We may not. Some of
these problems may not be things that we end
up solving. But what I enjoy is the process of
going through that, you know, a very methodical
process of what is it we want to do? Can we do
it? And were we successful? And even successful
outcomes can be, actually, we figured out we
don't need to do this because we've learned a
lot through it and we've determined this is where
we don't need to get to. But you've answered
that question. So culture is constant within
that, but it's constantly evolving, which I like,
right? It's changing, always new, meeting many
different people from many different walks of
life, which I really enjoy as well, collaborating
with very different. backgrounds diverse perspectives
people who you know don't look and feel like
me because i think that's really important and
i will have a perspective but others will have
something different they can bring to the table
and i really like that intersection of different
opinions so we're almost reaching the end of
the episode i do have a question which is out
of curiosity do you know what made an individual
contributor you managed or a manager you managed
successful? Did they have specific habits, traits,
something that we can learn from? I think those
that have been successful have led with curiosity,
have sought to understand what is their area
of responsibility. Often people get very distracted
by, oh, I want the next shiny thing. Can I have
that over there, please? Whereas actually what
you need to do is show impact through what is
your job? What are you being asked to do? Then
you get license to say, oh, that thing over there,
I've demonstrated what I'm doing is great. I'm
on target. I've got an open control, dot, dot,
dot. Now can I have something else next? So not
being, I suppose, impatient and get your area
of responsibility really nailed and your job,
what is expected of you to be very clear. um
and then being I suppose curious to where we
I always enjoy working with those who go okay
I can see where you want me to go I can see where
you want us to get to actually have you thought
about this is this is what the possibilities
are so even push the boundaries and be rather
than coming with don't like that that's a problem
actually coming with that's really exciting and
here is how I would build on it so Sometimes
it can be the language you use, the terminology
you use, but often it can be the mindset of that
positive reinforcement, how to kind of evolve
what we're doing as opposed to don't like it,
don't want to be it, but not helping to figure
out a way, right? I think especially as you lead
people, you want people to be pushing you, but
you equally want them to be doing it in the right
way, I suppose. Lead with curiosity and push
the boundaries. Thank you a lot. So we are reaching
the last question. So what's your last advice
looking back? I know you shared a lot, but what
is your last advice? Look, I think it's kind
of what we touched on throughout the talk where,
you know, get clear on yourself and invest the
time in understanding yourself. Go easy on yourself.
I think nobody has anything right or wrong all
of the time. you're trying to be curious and
figure it out look to experiment and you know
decisions you make now will you know not be life
-ending they will not you know you can always
course correct something as you your careers
will always evolve you will always evolve as
an individual so i think it's it's more just
experiment and and see you know, this is the
time now to try. I also think you can experiment
throughout your career. And I talk to individuals
about that a lot. You don't need to change a
company. You don't need to change your role to
experiment. You can experiment where you are.
But I think if you start with that mindset, it
makes things a lot easier, right? It opens a
lot more doors than close them. Thank you, Orla.
Thank you for everything you shared with us today.
If you're listening till now, hopefully you're
as inspired as I am. Thank you all. Pleasure.
Thank you.