Hello and welcome to And you, How Did You Make It?
the podcast in which we explore each step that
has built a career path of various professionals
through the discovery of their habits, passions,
interests over the last few decades. I'm Yusra,
your host, and today we meet Mayara. Mayara has
so far lived in Brazil and in France, Paris to
be exact, where she currently talks to us from.
She goes into so much details on how she made
it to where she is now. covering impactful conversations
she had in middle school and high school. Every
single experience and learning come attached
with brilliant advice that she either learned
at the time or on which she actually reflects
on throughout our conversation. Her openness
might change your perspective on how to overcome
personal and professional challenges and will
invite you to start building a strong ecosystem
she also nurtured and built for herself throughout
her life. As a high achiever, Mayra, who identifies
probably as a nerd, takes you on her scientific
journey and will probably inspire you as much
as she inspires me. Let's learn from her. Hi
Mayra and welcome to the show. I'm so happy to
have you with us today. We had the chance to
cross paths over there five years ago and I cannot
wait to share your story. I'll let you introduce
yourself. Awesome. Thank you so much for the
invitation. I believe having those conversations
can unlock a lot of very important thoughts that
we have and inspire brainstormings. So I think
what you're doing here with this podcast is very
important. I'm very thrilled to be here with
you today. So how do I present myself? It's always
a very tricky question, right? It throws you
back then and thinking about your origins. So
I am Brazilian. I was born in Brazil and I spent
most of my life there and certainly my best years
in terms of infancy and adolescence. And it's
been seven years that I now live in France. It
has been a nice experience changing cultures
and navigating those two different realities.
It has made me certainly a better person in general.
And I decided to study. So this is also a very
strong part of who I am. I'm a pharmacist. And
I have always been passionate about science since
I was very young. I'm sure we're going to talk
about it at some point. But science has moved
me. I identify very strongly as a scientist.
And I'm curious. I'm just curious. I love learning
about everything and anything. I love asking
questions. I have worked most of my professional
life in... In the pharmaceutical industry, but
that don't necessarily define me. I changed areas
immensely inside of the industry. What I was
always moved about was this curiosity of learning
more, understanding more, particularly about
how the body works. And as well, opening up opportunities
for me to feel that I'm always learning, that
I'm always evolving. That's what moved all the
different professional opportunities I have had.
There is one thing that as well is always there
is this focus on people. I like working with
people, for people to have a purpose, either
if it's about health or supporting other people's
development. I think this has always been present
in my personal and professional life. And I think
it defines me very nicely as well. It's lovely
to hear Mayra. And I cannot wait to talk more
about how everything started. When and how it
sparked your interest and where your interest
in science and everything around it after all.
But first, can you share with us your definition
of success? That's a tough one. For me, success
is to have that feeling that I'm evolving. My
definition of what's... life's challenge is about.
It's about always becoming a better version of
yourself. And this is something that is very
personal. Only you can define what a better version
of yourself means. And learning how to find that
for yourself, what this best version means and
strive for it. For me, it's success on itself.
There are two sentences that I absolutely love.
One is a very famous one. that some people here
hearing us today might have already heard it.
It's from Ralph Emerson. He's an American philosopher.
And he says that life is a journey, not a destination.
Very famous sentence, but honestly, I think it's
so true. It's not about arriving in a certain
place, but it is about taking joy of trying to
get there. Even if you never make it, that's
not important. It's all the experiences you live
through. trying to become who you want to become
and make of your life what you want it to be.
And there's a second sentence that I love, but
it's probably not that famous, from Irvin Yalon.
He is also an American writer. And he says that
not to take possession of your life plan is to
let your existence be an accident. A little bit...
harder as a sentence. But in essence, what he
means is that you have to be purposeful with
what you want. If you just think that wishing
something will make it become true, unfortunately,
that's not how the world works. You have to put
hard work and focus on building what you want
for yourself. And this sentence has influenced
me a lot since I was very, very young. So back
to your question. For me, success is always trying
to understand what you want, because that's not
very easy either, right? So searching and understanding
what you want. And once you know what you want,
to really have concrete actions to build that
future reality for yourself, not to get stuck
on the wishful thinking. It's a great definition.
And I love, love how you already started sharing
advice barely 10 minutes in the episode. I couldn't
agree more, is difficult. It's extremely difficult
to find what you want to do in life. But as soon
as you do, creating those steps will help you
to gradually get closer to where you want to
go. And yes, you will have to put a lot of effort
and a lot of work into it. But every single path
is different in some way. So what better than
putting your work in something you find? meaning
in. Mayara, can you tell us everything about
your middle school years, your passion, habits,
interests, and what kind of students you were?
Yeah, I think I was a very dedicated student
always. I never missed class. I would always
do my homework. I had very demanding parents
with very high expectations of myself. So I am
a single child, meaning I don't have brothers
and sisters. So all the dreams and expectations
of my parents were on me. And I worked very hard
to try to meet those expectations, even when
I was very young in middle school. I have two
funny stories to share about that, that I think
were very formative when I was in this moment
of middle school. I remember once there were...
pretty agitated week. There were the birthday
of some of my relatives. And because of all that
agitation, a lot of things happening, I forgot
to do my homework. And I woke up one day really,
I think I even dreamt about not doing my homework.
So I woke up very agitated that I didn't do the
thing that I was supposed to do and be desperate
of how am I going to show up at school and tell
my teacher that I haven't done what I had to
do. And I remember waking up my mother saying,
what do I do? What do I do? How am I going to
school and tell my teacher that I haven't done
it? And I asked my mom to write a note in my
notebook for my teacher saying, oh, she had a
very agitated week. She forgot to do her homework,
but she will do it. She committed to catching
up and not letting that happen again. And I think
that is a story that conveys very well how much
I felt the pressure. to be perfect in a way,
right, of making sure that everything was always
done. A second example that is very nicely as
well from my middle school is I always had good
grades and they never, I want to be clear here
that I was not one of those students that would
learn by osmosis, meaning they just sit there
in a class and then they would very quickly and
easily figure everything out. with no need to
study when they went back home. That was not
me. I had to study. I had to put in the work
to succeed in the classes. And I used to do that.
So I used to have good grades in general. But
there was one particular subject, and it was
Portuguese. So Portuguese is my mother tongue.
So as any country, you have the classes of your
mother tongue, right? And I passed with the minimum
grade. I almost didn't, but I did. I did pass
it. But my mom was so unhappy with the fact that
I passed with the minimal grade that she called
the school to ask the school to allow me to retake
the class, even though I had passed it, because
it was only with the minimal grade. So I think
that reflects a lot my life when I was in middle
school. A lot of hard work. I was a good student,
but as a result of hard work. And my favorite
subject back then was math. I had a classmate
that was also very good at math, as good as I
was. So there was a little friendly intellectual
competition between the two of us of who would
get the best grades in every single test. And
that was so motivating for me. It was so nice
to be able to compete. But compete in a way that
we were happy for each other. You know, it was
not about crushing each other. It was about being
able to push each other to get to the best results.
And we even studied together. There was no tentative
of sabotaging or anything like that. No, we were
really helping each other. But there was intellectual
competition in math that was very, very cool.
And then in contrast, my least favorite subject
was certainly physical education. I was always
a nerd myself. I loved my books and my notebooks
and papers, but not necessarily to run around
or play soccer. For those of you who are a little
bit aware about Brazil, soccer is a big thing
in Brazil. So not playing soccer as a Brazilian
was quite funny. So I think that a little bit
defines my middle school years. I had a huge
passion for Japanese culture and everything connected
to mangas, animes, even Japanese music. The city
that I used to live in, Brazil, has the biggest
Japanese immigration of the whole country. in
a very multicultural environment that is influenced
by the Japanese culture. So I was very privileged
to grow up in that environment and have very
early contact with cultures that are very different
from my own. And I would love this. And I also
loved music. I was largely influenced by my uncle
to love music, appreciate it, to start studying
even the drums. I started playing drums in middle
school. I was always very social, but... but
always a bit shy as well. So I think that kind
of sums up my personality during those very formative
years. I was social, but shy. Very good at school,
but needing to put in the work, which is great.
Yes, putting the work is so important. Yes, you
might be surrounded by students who don't need
to put that much work into it, but you also might
be surrounded by other ones who are just not
telling you that they are putting the work in
because you're not asking, because maybe they
don't want to share that. So if you feel like
sitting in class and actively listening does
not bring you all the knowledge needed to succeed
in class, Go for it. Study hard. Put the work
in. Invest in yourself. Maya, I do have two questions
on what you mentioned. Would you say that thanks
to your parents' active involvement, you were
able to chase those grades? Do you think that
you would still have gone for those if they were
not that involved? That's an excellent question.
I think when someone invests on you and you can
feel that investment and that expectation, you
need a little bit of that. You need a little
bit of that as well to understand that you can
do more, that there is more that you can extract
from yourself. Sometimes you don't have that
visibility of how far we can go or how much we
can give if you don't have someone believing
on you and putting even a little bit of pressure.
A certain amount of pressure is extremely healthy
and as well a very valid way of demonstrating
care and demonstrating love and belief on your
potential. It has to be a healthy amount, though.
If the pressure you're receiving is actually
making you feel bad about yourself, consistently
bad, and it's actually hurting your self -belief
instead of lifting you up, then you also have
to look for help and manifest that you're not.
not necessarily feeling happy about the pressure
you're receiving. I had that as well. When we
talk later about the high school years, there
was a moment where the pressure became unhealthy
and I was privileged to be able to raise my hand
and get support when that got unhealthy. So I
think it's a balance. A little bit of pressure,
certainly good. If the pressure is having a negative
effect of how you feel about yourself, then this
is where you have to raise your hand. Hi, parents.
Hope you're taking note there. Try to find a
balance between supporting and listening when
it gets maybe too much. Okay, I do have my second
question there. My question is on math. Do you
know why you liked it? Ah, I do know why I liked
it. At that point in time, I was fascinated by
the fact that math was not about... so much about
interpretation. The way you do the calculation,
you will always get the same results. And you
can learn different ways to make calculations
in different methodologies. You could be more
of a spatial mathematical mind, or you can be
more about really making the counts using mathematical
symbols. But the facts are the facts, and you're
going to get to the same results. And back then,
I would find comforting to have something that,
regardless of how I was going to do the calculation,
I was always going to get the same results. That's
super insightful. That's true that math can have
this kind of power to empower you. You know how
native languages classes like Portuguese for
my era and French for myself are trying to push
you to dig into the writer's orders? Thinking
process or, you know, the direction that they
are trying to take and making you think about
this. Well, math challenges you to think slightly
differently. Actually, with math, there is only
one right answer. No, you understood me 100%.
I liked the logic. It's just logic. And then
when you go to the native language classes. The
way you analyze sentences or texts, that's not
necessarily logic. There is some logic to it,
of course, but completely random. As a kid, I
used to find that frustrating. Absolutely. Well,
this is great to know. And for you who are listening
to us, it's okay to feel more comfortable in
one rather than another. And it could also mean
that it might not be for you now, but might come
later. in your student life. So keep working
hard on both, embracing your strength in one
or another, or hopefully on both. But this leads
me to my last question on your middle school
years, Mayra. What advice did you receive when
you were still there? I had a great story about
this. It's the story of a vocational test. So
a vocational test is something you take to try
to help you figure out what you should do in
college. And normally towards the end years of
the middle school, you start already thinking
and certainly getting the question from parents,
from friends, if you have already figured out
what you want to be when you grow up. So it starts
that pressure about... going from your early
daydreams, because normally when you're very
young, you're like, oh, I want to be a firefighter
or I want to be an astronaut. And getting it
to a little bit more of a realistic answer, or
at least the answer people expect from you of,
I want to be an engineer or I want to be a doctor.
And I was very fortunate to be studying in a
school that offered a whole class that was called
professional orientation. So the whole last year
of my middle school, we got in touch with professionals
of different areas. So we had engineers or lawyers
coming to the school to tell us about their professions,
how they would spend their days, what was a typical
day for someone with their profession, what were
the career possibilities. That was extremely
rich. It was really, really rich. I had the chance
to discover professions that I might not necessarily
thought about because no one from my family had
those professions and explore what they couldn't.
And the very end of this one year of discovery
was this famous vocational path. So going back
to what I told you about little Mayara, little
Mayara loved logic. So the prospect of having
a test that I was going to answer some questions
and the test was going to tell me what was going
to be my profession of the future was awesome.
I said, wow, I found the thing for me. Suddenly,
I don't need to think about what I want. This
test is going to tell me. So I took the test
and it was the very last day of school that they
were giving the test results back. And in Brazil...
Normally, you follow the order of your name,
not your family name, but really your name. And
since Mayara is my name in alphabetical order,
I'm quite in the end of receiving the results.
So I started seeing my friends opening up their
results and sharing what was written there. So
suddenly someone will say, wow, veterinarian,
that's so cool. And then... Another person opening
up and saying, oh, teacher. Wow, I haven't thought
about being a teacher. That's so cool. So there
was this build up of expectations that when I
got my results, despite the fact that the results
was supposed to be a little book describing about
preferences, I went straight to the last page
because the last page was the one that was supposed
to give me the answer of what was going to be
my profession of the future. And for my surprise,
it was written inconclusive. And I was so shocked.
I was very shocked. And my message from that
inconclusive was, wow, maybe I'm not good enough
for anything. So the test couldn't find something
that I'm good enough to be, and therefore it's
showing back as inconclusive. I was so ashamed
that I closed the... The test, I shoved it in
my backpack and I started to change the subject
a little bit with my friends so that I wouldn't
tell them that I got this inconclusive. And when
the class was over, everyone started leaving
and I went to see the teacher. I said, listen,
I got an inconclusive and I don't want to deal
with this. And this was a very formative moment
for me because that teacher took the time to
sit down with me. And to explain that result
to me, she opened up, there was a table in that
test showing my preferences between sciences,
human areas, such as geography or history, and
then more inclinations toward health sciences.
And she showed me that the bars of that chart,
they were more or less in the same level. Meaning
that there was not an area that was showing up
very clearly as a preference. And then she said,
the interpretation you're making of those results,
that is, that you're not good for anything, is
actually the other way around. You can be whatever
you want. You have such a diversified... array
of passions and interests that you really can
be whatever you want. And so she helped convert
a message that for me was a limiting and sad
message into a message of empowerment and discovering
that I had a superpower and the superpower was
this flexibility of being able to become whatever
I wanted. You can be whatever you want. Excuse
me? This is such a powerful sentence to hear
for a teenager. Teachers. Yes, teachers who are
like her, please be louder in classrooms. Please,
please, please be louder in classrooms. And every
single teenager who is listening to us needs
to hear that. Mayela, this is so powerful. I'm
so glad you got it. You got a teacher like her.
This is incredible. And you know what? What strikes
me as well, and I want to go back to this exact
story, is that you had this information. You
decided to hide it from your classmates, which
is absolutely fair. But I loved how you went
to your teacher and tried to understand it. I
do understand why you did that because it highlights
your curiosity and by trying to understand what
was happening to you, even if you were facing
the shame that you were mentioning. But you try
to lift the ambiguity instead of spiraling. And
there is a great takeaway from this. If you,
yes you, you who are listening to us now, if
you are facing a challenge, don't shut down.
Try to understand it. And if the teacher in the
classroom is not helping you, try your best to
find another person who you can trust to help
you make a situation clearer and try to reflect
on it. Absolutely, absolutely. I think one thing
that made a ton of difference in all the different
stages of my life was to have... These little
pockets of advisors, of adults that I really
trusted and that, above all, I knew that they
had my best interest in mind. And whatever they
were going to tell me was going to be something
to help me and support me. I always identified
those key teachers that we feel a sense of connection
with, even if they are teachers from previous...
grades that you have the ability to keep contact
with them. My parents also had friends that were
also teachers and I used to be very close to
some of them where I could ask as well some questions
and some advices. You always have as well this
person in your family, be it your parents or
an aunt or an uncle that you're a bit closer
to that you can also... be part of this circle
of advisors that you can ask those questions.
I always processed my doubts or my fears by speaking.
Not everybody processes the same way, but for
the ones that have a little bit more of an extrovert
personality and therefore like to speak. Having
this trusted circle of advisors that you can
manifest what you think can be so crazily powerful.
It's also powerful for the introverts, but then
there's the barrier of having to trust probably
even more to be able to open up and explain how
you're feeling and what are the doubts that are
maybe crippling in your head. But you said something
that I want to emphasize. The most important
thing of it all is... Do not just shut down about
it and keep it for yourself because then you
are losing an opportunity to reflect and to learn
from any experience you're going through. So
you need to remember three things. Ask questions,
lead by curiosity, and we are all doing this
for the first time. So asking the questions will
only bring you at least some clarity. And if
you don't have those trusted advisors, we hope
that you can find comfort within this podcast
and within those episodes where we will try to
deep dive into those questions. And you will
realize that growing up, everyone is lost. Everyone
is asking questions. Now moving into the next
part of your life, Mayra, which is high school.
What type of student were you? What were your
habits, passions, interests? And were you still
interested in math? Were you still driven towards
it? Well, high school was, it's such an important
moment of life. And I say that for myself, but
I guess for most people around, it's a moment
that you're figuring out so much about yourself.
And it was totally the case for me. It was a
moment of a lot of reflection, a lot of maturing.
a lot of experimentation as well to figure out
things that I liked and things that I not necessarily
liked. And one interesting thing is that conclusion
that I had on the last year of middle school,
which was maybe I have a broader range of interests
than I initially thought, really manifested itself
in high school. Because in high school, my interests
for the subjects changed. And suddenly I fell
in love with politics, which is a part of geography,
and literature. So I didn't like the Portuguese
classes when I was in middle school. But then
suddenly when I got to high school, I had a fantastic
literature teacher that helped me fall in love
with books and stories and narratives and the
interpretations those could have. And at the
same time... I started to struggle with physics,
which one can say is close to math, right? And
close to that logic that I used to love when
I was a bit younger. So the balance between those
STEAM subjects, so those subjects that are connected
to math, to technology, to logic, I started to
struggle on those. And the humanities that I
used to struggle in the past, I started to fall
in love with. So it was... First, very confusing
for me. It was like, what happened to me? Did
the part of me broke? That used to perform very
well in those more straightforward or logic subjects.
But it was just the beginning of a pattern that
then I would see for my whole life, which is
my interests and my passions would fluctuate
depending on... The people that were around me,
the context, the moment I was leaving. So different
areas of my personality and different interests
would surface as a reaction of my own maturing
path and as well the people around me. Every
time there was an awesome teacher, super passionate
about the subject, I would get the tendency to
fall in love for the subject too and suddenly
find myself. liking it more than I did before.
So I was very lucky to have had several of those
very passionate teachers that would love the
subject, but would also love teaching and know
how to reach out to me and to make me understand
how cool that subject could be. And I allowed
myself to as well pursue them that passion to
say, if this person loves it so much. There's
something there maybe. Let me see what is in
there for me. And to explore those areas. I continued
being a super applied student. I was preparing
myself for university. So, for example, there
was one year, the last year of high school, that
I was really having a crazy schedule. I was doing
the normal high school classes in the morning.
In the afternoon, I was doing a prep. preparatory
course for university. And in the evenings, I
was taking additional classes to boost some areas
that I wasn't performing as good as I could to
really be competitive for the university entry
of university exams. So it was a very insane
year. And that was the moment that I refer earlier
when we were talking that The pressure of this
very tight schedule, plus the pressure that I
would constantly receive from my parents. My
parents, in Brazil, the grades go from 0 to 10.
Each country has a little bit of a different
way of looking at grades. In Brazil, it's from
0 to 10. If I would get home with a 9, it wasn't
a reason for celebration. And for the first time
in my life, I felt the... weight of that. Suddenly
that pressure was not only giving me the good
energy of putting myself into it, but I was also
having the negative effects of not sleeping,
feeling nervous about it, not being able to celebrate
the accomplishments that I was doing on the path.
And I had the chance to raise my hand and ask
for help. My parents wouldn't understand what
was wrong and why I was suffering. But they gave
me the opportunity to go see a psychologist back
then. And that was a very transformative experience
to be able to talk with someone. I could find
a psychologist that I really trusted and I really
admired. So I could open myself to her. And she
helped me navigate that environment. She helped
me understand my self -worth, my... why I was
feeling pressured. And she taught me very clever
mechanisms of how to have those conversations
with my parents, for example, about how I was
feeling and how they could help me feeling better.
And it was very good. It's something that if
you feel you're going through a situation that
you don't know how to unlock, You have talked
to distrusted people that you have around you,
but you couldn't necessarily get the best advice
yet to unlock how you feel. Looking for professional
support is a great idea. Honestly, I wish everyone
would go through the support of a psychologist
at some point in their lives, because it's really
about making you much, much stronger. to face
any challenges or headwinds you have in your
life. And well, to finish up, I continue being
very social, but I also learned how to embrace
the fact that I was nerd. Because when I was
younger, I was a little bit shy about the fact
that I was a bookworm, that I loved books and
that I loved learning. Because that were not
the characteristics that made people very popular.
But during high school, I also learned to earn
this and to find it very cool that I was a nerd
and to see the beauty on it. And it was nice.
It was nice. Today, I'm a very proud nerd. And
that made me a happier person, for sure. Thank
you, Mara, for being so open. And this is very
interesting. There are so many takeaways from
what you just shared. Some teachers will be able
to transmit the passion they have for the subject
they are teaching. Others won't. But don't forget
one thing. Your commitment to each class is needed
regardless of how they deliver it. I do hope
you get as lucky as Mayara to get teachers who
are just bringing this fascination towards the
subject. But if you don't, you will have to hang
in there. you will soon be able to determine
what you like doing more. But to manage to do
that, you have to sit down and understand the
class and where it wants to take you. Completely
agree. And I can give a real example for myself.
I had that case with history. History is a subject
that during middle school and high school, I
never necessarily found. a teacher that made
me fall in love for it. So I went through the
class a little bit without so much care. But
after I finished the studies, eventually that
passion came. And today I find myself as someone
that loves history and honestly regrets not having
had put more efforts into that subject when I
wasn't in school. Because today I can see how...
great it is and how interesting it is. So completely
agree with your point. Every single subject has
a reason to be. They were chosen to be put in
front of us to help us experiment what are all
the possibilities of knowledge that the world
has in front of us. And so there is value and
there is potential into exploring each one of
those. So do hang on. It's going to get better.
And Mayra, to go back to what you shared earlier,
it was an intense schedule. And yes, calling
for help is crucial. Your studies are going to
be so long. And it's a whole marathon. It's not
a race. If you don't ask for support now, you
might burn out. And burning out might be a concept
which is not close to home now. But it's the
idea that you're taking, you're taking, you're
taking, that at some point, drowning, if you
reach that point where you cannot handle working
for even an hour because how exhausted you are,
it's okay to feel overwhelmed and trying to find
a better way to continue being dedicated and
finding a better approach. Yeah, totally. And
no one can really know what you're feeling. about
things. Only you know what you're feeling. Only
you know what you're going through. So sometimes
people around you will realize that you're going
through something and you're suffering and they
will proactively reach out to you offering help.
But sometimes this will not happen because they
have no idea how are you really feeling and how
bad the situation really is. So there is a moment
where you have to take the responsibility to
inform people that you're not well, because they
might not notice, not because they don't care
about you, but because really no one really knows
how you feel about things. And that was exactly
the case. I was lucky enough to have parents
that really loved me, but they had no idea that
I was not coping well with the pressure they
were putting on me. So I think... And one other
message, I think sometimes we think it's about
not being able to cope it by myself. I don't
see it that way at all. Everyone said how brave
I was being of raising my hand and asking for
help. And I saw how much that's made a difference,
not only in that particular moment of my life,
but how much I really learned how to be stronger
in general and had a long lasting effect of that
support. So I honestly couldn't recommend more
for you to raise your hand and be transparent
with how you're going through things. Thank you
so much, Mayra. And by any chance, do you remember
any of the mechanisms you can use to have this
conversation with your parents? Yes, definitely.
I remember tons of them. I remember... And that
moment of high school is also a moment that you
are starting to experiment with a little bit
more of freedom. You're being able to move around
the city maybe a little bit more than you were
before or arrive home a little bit later. So
you start testing as well those limits with your
parents. And one great advice that I got from
my psychologist back then was she told me. You
are their only child and therefore every step
you're going through with your life is the first
time they're dealing with it too. They're also
learning how to be parents. There's not a book
on how to be a great parent. So they're also
experimenting with you as much you're experimenting
with them. So they also don't know how to do
most of their tasks. So try to understand what
is their rationale behind some things. At that
point in time in my life, I was very frustrated
with all the no's I was hearing from my parents.
No, you can't go to that party or you can't go
to that trip. And I was just going to get frustrated
and shut down and not want to discuss and to
talk to them. And my psychologist told me, try
to understand what is the real concern by telling
you no. So instead of shutting down, ask questions.
So I started asking them, what are you worried
about? Because if you're telling me not to go
on that trip, it's because you're probably worried
about something. Because I'm pretty sure you're
trying to protect me with that decision. So as
well, trusting the good intention was also one
advice she gave me. Trust there is good intention
on those decisions. So I said, I trust there
is a good intention on why you're not letting
me go. Can you help me understand what it is
and what are you afraid of? And depending on
what was the concern, I couldn't cover concerns
from my parents that I had no idea they had.
And I could as well help reassure them that those
concerns were not going to be real. So there
was a moment, for example, where they said, the
place you want to go, this beach you want to
go with your friends, is a place where we know
there is a lot of drug abuse. So we don't want
you being there. And then I asked, are you guys
worried that I am going to do drugs or are you
guys worried that the place itself is unsafe
because there are people there that use drugs?
And they said, well, we trust you that you're
not going to do drugs, but we don't trust the
others. So there is the safety of the place.
And then I answered back saying. If we were not
going to this particular beach, if we looked
for another beach, would then this be an option?
And they said, yes, that would be an option.
So you saw, because I could ask those questions
and understand a little bit more, trusting the
good intention, what they were trying to protect
me from, I was much better positioned to negotiate
with them how I could then unlock that situation
and transform that negative answer eventually
to a positive answer. It didn't work all the
time. Let me put it out there. Sometimes the
no continued being a no. But I got some yeses
out of it. And it also provided me with a better
understanding that I never had of what were the
concerns and the worries my parents had about
me. Good intention. It's not you against them.
They are trying their best to understand the
situation and to protect you from potential harm.
And it might be difficult to understand it at
first. It might not be phrased in a way that
you understand it as being for your best interest.
But try to think about where they're coming from
with their guidance and interdictions. And as
well, this fact of they are also potentially
learning how to be parents. So if you see that
they have done something, that was very unfair
and that tended not to be the right choice in
your perspective, that they made a choice that
was not the best. Well, you know, it's tough.
They make mistakes as well. They are also humans.
So learning how to see your parents through these
more generous lenses of the fact that they are
also human, they are also learning, and sometimes
they make mistakes, can also be very helpful.
Agreed. I do have a last question on your high
school years, Mayra. Were you taking any classes
outside of regular classes and which rather?
Yes, I do remember. There were one on physics
because that's the subject that suddenly high
school is not doing so well. And the other one
was on how to write texts because one very important
part of the uni exams. was to be able to produce
reports and produce narratives. And they were
so very different, right? Between physics and
between learning how to write and to storytell,
those are very different subjects. Two great
teachers that I remember and hold dear to these
days, still have contact with them. And I ended
up in different parts. With physics... Let's
say I learned to aim it. I learned I'm not a
great physicist today. If you give me one of
those problems that I would solve in high school
for the exams today, I would probably not be
able to do it. So I got better in a circumstantial
level to be able to address the need I had in
that moment. But it's not something that I became
particularly good at. For learning how to write,
it's a completely different story. I found by
doing those classes a lifelong passion. So today
I love to write. I don't necessarily write novels,
but I love to write it for myself. I write a
lot in LinkedIn, for example, which is a social
media, a professional social media. Articulate
my ideas and my thoughts into stories. And to
narratives is something that I got better for
my whole life after those classes. And I discovered
a passion that I not necessarily had until that
point in time. And how were you able to improve
your written skills? By reading. I already loved
how to read, but I was not necessarily interested
in the science behind how things are written.
So I would love to read. But I never necessarily
reflected what led that author to say that sentence,
what he was trying to tell me. And suddenly that
teacher showed me this world of what is behind
the curtains. She helped me to see that every
sentence a writer puts on paper had very carefully
chosen words that meant something specific. It
was not... randomly chosen. There is the science
behind it and a lot of meaning that can be hidden
behind the choice of one word versus another.
And suddenly I found that so clever, so intellectually
stimulating, trying to pick the words myself
when I write, depending on what I wanted to mean
and how impactful I want to be. She also taught
me such as how to insert a hook in a text, for
example, for the reader to be curious about what
is going to follow or how to be very descriptive
with the environment, say how it smells and how's
the light, so that suddenly the reader can be
transported to the environment you're trying
to describe. I found that fascinating. I found
like so stimulating in terms of intellectually
stimulating that that's what made me fall in
love with to realize that how more complex and
interesting writing could be. It was not just
the words on paper. It's about constructing a
narrative. And did you need to prepare any high
school diploma like we do in France? Did you
know what you wanted to do after high school
at that moment? And if you did, how did you find
out? It's similar but different. Similar in the
sense that as soon as you finish your high school,
it is considered finished and you already get
your diploma. But if you want to do higher educations,
then there is an exam that you have to pass.
And it's also like in France, a unified exam
that everyone does the same exam. But it's only
if you really want to accomplish a higher education.
If you don't, you don't need to do that. And
it is in that moment, that exam, that you already
need to have chosen what you want to do. Because
then you have to put it in the form when you
apply for it, what you want to do. in high school
studies. So normally the last year of your high
school, it's really dedicated to figure it out
because by the end of that year, you're going
to have to know if you want to go straight to
university. You can also take a gap year. You
can also do other things and then decide to come
back to university and then do this exam later.
But the path that I have chosen was to go to
university straight from high school. And therefore,
I needed to do my exam by the end of the year.
So this last year was the year where I explored
what could be the possibilities. I ended up being
divisive between three areas that were very different.
Oh, what a surprise. It has been a bit the theme
of my podcast, I guess. I was between being a
pharmacist, being a chemical engineer, and being
a journalist. With that recent discovered passion
of writing, then came this idea of, can I be
a journalist? Can I write as a profession? So
I went about trying to learn what could be the
different... and job opportunities that each
one of those careers could go for because I felt
I'm not going to be able to choose based on my
passion. I really would love to do the three
of them. So passion is not going to be a driver.
It's normally the biggest driver. You have to
listen to your heart. But I already did that
and I still had three things on the table. So
I had to find some other criteria that could
help me figure out beating the three of them.
And then... It was a very, let's say, practical
criteria that I ended up finding. I tried to
understand very practically, what can I do with
that diploma? What kinds of roles I can have?
What kind of jobs I can have? And I saw that
for the three of them, the career that offered
the larger spectrum of opportunities was to be
a pharmacist. And there was this idea of something
that I really didn't know until I started to
research and ask him tons of questions. So if
there is an advice for you, you have to ask tons
of questions to a lot of people. Every person
is going to give you a different answer. And
it's not about their particular answer. It's
about you. capitalizing on all those different
answers and then figuring out for you what does
it mean? What can it mean? And asking people
about what a pharmacist can do, I was very surprised
with what was the breadth of the possibilities.
Because I could work in a pharmacy, for example.
So when you go to a pharmacy to buy anything,
you're going to see that there is a pharmacist
there trying to guide you. through what is the
best choice of medicine for you in that moment
of purchase. So you can do that. So you can be
in direct contact with people going to a pharmacy.
You can work in a hospital, for example, helping
people that are hospitalized to understand what
is the best treatment options that they have
and to follow through with their treatment. So
very close to patients that are in need of a
treatment. You can work in a lab. And there are
two types of labs. There is the lab that does
exams on people. So when you go to some place
to collect blood, for example, to have a blood
test, the person who will analyze that test might
be a pharmacist, for example. So it can be these
kinds of pharmacists that analyze tests and analyze
results. Or you can work on a lab producing science.
And trying to come up with new molecules, new
treatments, new understanding about diseases
that can change the practice of medicine and
the disease paths. And then, last but not the
least, you can also work on the pharmaceutical
industry in several different roles. I was very
surprised with how different it was. And that's
what moved me. Because I said... I have learned
enough about myself until this point to know
that I change and that my own interests evolve
because my personality evolves, but as well because
my surroundings evolve. So what between those
three careers, journalist, chemical engineering,
or pharmacist, can allow me to continue changing
and enable that change? And I felt that it was
pharmacy. for me because I knew that I could
then have all this back of roles I could pick
from and therefore I could I'm sure find happiness
with that diploma that I was going to have and
I knew that there had great job opportunities
and career prospects that also made the choice
seem like the right one back then this is so
interesting I love I love love love how you had
this kind of introspection exercise and be like,
okay, this is who I am. I'm someone who's very
curious. I might be super interested about something
now, but I've seen that I've changed my mind
a couple of times on different things. So because
this is who I am and that I have three options
in front of me, I have to choose also something
that matches my personality and my aspiration
is that... I have the flexibility to move from
one thing to another. So how can I empower myself
to still live my truest version? So I love this
approach. And I do have, however, a question
prior to identifying all those three. So was
it thanks to the presentation you had a couple
of years ago of the different career paths? That
helped, but that was the last year of... middle
school so I still had the high school to go through
and to think and to continue asking people and
interviewing people I for example I identified
people I knew that were pharmacists that were
chemical engineers that were journalists to ask
them about how was their ride how was their experience
with the university but as well later their experience
in life to better understand what that means
and if I also I felt that I identified three
interests as well in the three different areas
that I loved so the pharmacist would match very
nicely with a curiosity I had since I was very
very young that I wanted to know how a pill for
your headache would know That it has to go to
your head because it's your head that hurts.
I used to find that magical. I would see people
taking the pill and I was like, how does the
pill know? It's crazy. So I had that curiosity
that always existed on me that matched very nicely
with pharmacists and with a career in science
in general. But then my passion for logic and
structure. said, can I marry this scientific
side with engineering? And that's what gave the
chemical engineering path. And then the journalist
was just like, wow, I found this love that I
have for writing now. And my mother is a journalist
as well. So that was also an influence there.
Should I explore this as well? And I think one
thing that I have learned as well is to be, to
explore before trying to make a decision really
because I think we put a lot of pressure on us
on making a decision as quickly as possible and
as early as possible because let's be frank most
of us feel uncomfortable with not knowing what
to do so this uncertainty of not knowing sometimes
pushes us to make the decision as quickly as
possible but learning how to embrace that uncertainty
for a period and say, I will not know until I
know. And I will take my time to not knowing
and exploring and asking questions and telling
people I don't know yet. Stop asking. Give me
my time. Help me figure this out instead of asking
if I already know. And then pushing this decision
as late as possible so that you can allow yourself
the time to explore. And it's fine. It should
be fine. Most of the pressure to figure. Things
out come from ourselves and trying to get rid
of the uncertainty. But embrace that uncertainty
of that moment. Make yourself curious. Ask tons
of questions. If you don't know anybody in the
areas you think you might be interested, ask
people who you can talk to. Because that helped
me immensely. Yeah, absolutely. You're so right.
And I think if you can't still find someone,
we are in the age of... having access to so much
information online. So if you don't know someone,
you can read about that role, about that job,
about everything. So don't think about what you're
missing. Think about how can I find that information
somewhere? Because we have access and you shouldn't
put barriers to yourself into like, okay, I don't
have anyone around me who can guide me. You should
be like, okay, I don't have anyone. How can I
find that? And I think the first exercise that
I think we should learn from Mayara now is who
am I? Am I a curious being? Am I someone who
needs a routine instead? I don't want to have
changes in my path. Or do I want something that
is a little bit more adventurous, like trying
to sit down and understand who you are? and then
go for that information can also be an approach.
Think about the fact that there is no right or
wrong way to make that decision. It just takes
time. And exactly what Mayara just said, we are
all lost. Completely agree with you, 100%. And
I like one thing that you said, to remove the
pressure of that decision. Yes, it's an important
decision, I'm not going to lie, but it's not
a dead end. Nothing tells you that you cannot
change your mind even later and say, I want to
do different studies. I changed my mind. Or to
work on a field that is different from the studies
that you got and the diploma that you got. This
is more and more possible in the world that we
live today versus the past. So try to as well
take this decision. With seriousness less, but
with lightness as well. It is just to remove
the extreme pressure that we normally put ourselves
or other people put on us in that moment. There
are still going to be plenty of opportunities
to change your mind later in your life too. Thank
you so much, Mayra. I think this is very insightful
and this is a great thing to remember as well.
Just for the idea that every choice you make
is not set in stone. It's all about, again, taking
all the advice you've shared so far and ask questions,
do your research, talk to the people. Your environment
will change so much, so the people around you
have a different set of knowledge. So if you
also ask them, if they know someone in that field,
it can also help you understand a whole new area,
a whole new job. whole opportunities out there
so exactly the most important is to be curious
and ask the questions so now that you choose
pharma can you tell us a little bit more about
those studies and if someone is listening to
us like in considering doing the same thing do
you think there is a kind of personality and
habits they need to to succeed there well first
of all To say that I don't regret for a second
having studied pharmaceutical sciences. So I'm
happy to say that it's a wonderful field with
a lot of career opportunities. You can work very
closely with patients. So if you're a person
that gets motivated by this real support in a
moment of health challenges, to also consider
pharmaceutical studies. Normally we think about
doctors or nurses, but the pharmacists are also
there in that moment. Or if you're also someone
that really loves precision, then normally we
think mathematics or think physics, but there's
also that in pharmacists, being a researcher,
for example. There is really a broad array of
personalities you can have to feed in the pharmaceutical
sciences area. But there is one thing that is
key and it's curiosity. As any field in science,
science evolves a lot. What we consider completely
non and obvious today will be challenged and
will evolve tomorrow because that's the nature
of science. Something is true until it's proven
that it's not. and new science arrives. And we
are lucky to live in a moment in the world where
there is a lot of research being produced. There
is a lot of knowledge being produced. So there's
also this need for a pharmacist to keep up to
speed with the emergence of science and being
open to challenge your own concepts. If you're
a very dogmatic individual, if you like truths
that will last for your whole life, Probably
not the best area because every single concept
that you build will eventually be challenged
and some of them will be debunked. So you're
going to have to be open to accept that the world
we live in, we don't necessarily 100 % comprehend
and be part of the movement to drive more understanding
of the nature of our existence and the magical
elements that make our body work. That's where
I think there is a lot of passion to be sick
into the pharmaceutical environment. And if you're
someone like me that likes to keep possibilities
open and have a lot of flexibility, it can also
be something very nice to consider. And can you
tell us about your studies? What was it like
to study pharma? I entered the university very
young. I was 17 when I started university. And
I think that was hard for me because most people
around me were a bit older. Sometimes they did
preparatory courses to be able to be accepted
in university. So they very often had one, two,
three, even four years more than me. And I wasn't
even legally an adult yet. In Brazil, you're
legally an adult with 18. So it's close, but
not necessarily that. There are a lot of things
that I couldn't do versus other people in university.
So there was this moment of feeling really like
a kid surrounded by adults. I felt that everyone
around me were adults and I was the only kid
there. So there was this very real feeling for
me that in the beginning was a bit challenging,
but it also built a sense of how privileged I
was to be able to be accepted in university at
such a young age. So I decided to try to reframe
that challenge into an opportunity and something
positive. So instead of feeling, oh, I'm the
only young person here, it's going to be tough,
trying to see this as... look how amazing it
is that I have this opportunity of being here
so young and advancing my studies in such a nice
fashion. So I think that was the first struggle.
And then that struggle derived the fact that
I felt that they were better prepared to handle
some of the pressures of university than necessarily
I was. I went with the university with a... thinking
that it was going to be a continuation of high
school, that it was going to feel like high school,
but it didn't feel like high school at all. It
was a completely different environment. No one's
checking if you did your homework or if you even
understood what's being discussed in class. The
accountability over if you're learning or not
completely shifts from the teacher to you. And
you have to be mature enough to accept and own.
that accountability. That now, if you don't take
care of your own studies and if you don't work
to make sure that you learn, no one will be checking
on you. There's a lot of freedom, but the freedom
comes with the responsibility of understanding
that it's on you to make sure that you have learned.
I struggled with that in the beginning, particularly
the first six months. But then I think I was...
With hard work and with commitment, I was able
to then understand this new environment I was
in with a lot of help as well from colleagues,
from friends, from those old teachers that I
built relationships with in high school. I went
back to some of them and then I could then finally
figure out how different it was, the environment
I was, and how different it demanded me to be.
You are indeed the only one responsible for your
success at uni. No one will call you out on not
studying. It's you and you. So go for it. Give
everything you have. So talking about your career
days. So you started working in Brazil and then
moved to another country. As someone who moves
countries as well and surrounded by people who
move countries themselves. We tend to forget
how big of a step it is and how bold and courageous
you kind of need to be to go for it. My question
to you, Maya, is how did you build the courage
to move across the Atlantic? Wow, that's a wonderful
question. I agree with you that we tend to forget
how courageous you need to be to make a move
like that because you're leaving behind. Your
whole notion of how society is organized, your
culture. There are things that are in autopilots
when you're in your own country that you then
have to turn off that autopilot in the new country.
And that's very tiresome to have to think things
that you have never thought before because you
had the chance to be an autopilot for some of
those. We can talk about it a bit more. The move
to France for me happened in a very privileged
situation because I already worked for the company
I currently work for back in Brazil. So I was
already an employee for them there. And I had
offered the chance to do this internal transfer
to France. And let me tell you why it's a privileged
opportunity for two reasons. First, because when
you have a company that is behind you, they orchestrate
your move. in administrative terms, which is
a lot of work in terms of visa, physically moving
your stuff from one place to another. Only having
someone helping with that was already an immense
privilege. But there is a second aspect as well.
When you're moving countries, there's so much
around you that is changing. So your environment
is changing. Your apartment or the place you
live in changes. The people around you change.
Suddenly you don't have necessarily all your
family and your friends around you anymore. Even
the simplest things get complex. I will give
a silly example. I remember going to the supermarket
when I arrived in France, looking at the brands
of soap that were available. And not recognizing
any because all the brands were different from
Brazil. And suddenly I was like, wow, I don't
even know how to choose soap. It's something
so basic and I don't know how to do it. So that's
what I meant with turning off the autopilot,
right? Going to the supermarket, I knew the brands
I wanted. So buying stuff was just a no -brainer
type of exercise for me in Brazil. And suddenly
it wasn't anymore. I had to think things through
and I struggled to read the labels and understand
what things were for and what was better than
other and the costs associated. So even the simplest
things become complex. And being able to do an
internal transfer, at least there is something
that is stable. And it's a little bit your work
environment, because normally you know at least
a couple of colleagues in the place that you
work. The corporate culture of that company can
be a little bit similar from the two countries.
And it was the case for me. The corporate culture
was a little bit the same. The teams I would
work with were a little bit the same. So to have
that one aspect of stability when everything
else around you is changing. It was quite a privilege
to have and very anchoring for me to be able
to get the courage to say, yes, let me try to
have this opportunity a thousand of miles away
from my home. And what advice would you tell
someone who's thinking about taking this big
step but still has doubts or as simple as fear?
Do it. It's going to be a transformative experience
and it's not going to be easy, but it will make
you such a different person and you're going
to learn immensely about yourself. There's nothing
I have learned more in this move than things
about myself, things I took for granted that
now I can see much, much clearer. There is this
very silly sentence that some people say that
The animal that knows the least about water is
the fish because it's surrounded by water and
therefore it doesn't necessarily know what it
means not to have water. It is the same about
identity as well. When you are included in your
own identity, your country identity, you don't
know what it is. So back then, so seven, eight
years ago, if you would ask me what it means
to be a Brazilian, I wouldn't know. Because I
was there and that was all I knew. But today,
being able to leave a different society that
is organized different, that has different values,
then I'm much more capable of looking back, tell
you what it means to be a Brazilian and appreciate
it as well. And as well, learn to appreciate
a new way of organizing itself, of having a society
based on different values. And being able to
see what is good and what's not so good of the
different ways of having a country or having
a society organized. So I can see a clear difference
between people who have had the chance to make
this move and live somewhere else from other
people in terms of how mature they get to understand
and appreciate differences. I love the reflection
you have here, Mayara. And even if you are geographically
away from home, you're closer than ever. If you
sit down with someone who asks you a question
about your culture, you can tell them everything
about it because you are able to reflect on it
and its beauty. It makes you a richer person
because you have now both cultures, for you,
Mayara, and for everyone who's surrounding me.
And you're able now to take everything that you
need from one or the other. And now going back
to your work experience, what have you liked
so far from your early work and what learning
do you have from each opportunity? So I try to
drive a lot of change in my own scope. So in
the very beginning of my career, I changed jobs
a lot to be able to really accumulate new experiences.
working with new people that had different personalities.
And by doing that, accelerates my development.
So in that sense of, in the beginning, particularly
in the beginning of your career, it's going to
be true as well for the late stages, but particularly
when you're starting, there's no wrong move.
You can really allow yourself to do crazy different
things, work in marketing one day and in finance
in another, and then become a salesperson and
then go back to telemarketing. And no one's going
to blink an eye. And it is such an interesting
way of putting yourself through different experiences
and accumulating that accelerated development.
I did that. It was great for me. Each one of
those different opportunities helped me grow,
helped me realize how to work with different
personalities, different types of businesses
as well that have different challenges and different
cultures. So today I feel much more prepared
to deal with diversity and the diversity of the
world because I allowed myself from very own
to experiment and maximize this experimentation.
I think a big advice we could share now is try
to join a sector where you can change if change
might be something you would be looking for.
And I think the world has changed so much in
that aspect, because if we talk about sometimes
with our parents, but grandparents and the people
around us, we would find a lot of examples of
someone who has done one single thing their whole
lives. or have worked for the same company for
20, 30, 40 years. This is still possible and
there's nothing wrong with it. But more and more
people are allowing themselves to experiment
and change jobs, change departments, change companies.
And more and more we are becoming a world where
what matters are your skills and the experiences
you have had. not necessarily the job titles
or the departments. And so all of this infrastructure
is organizing itself to enable us more and more
to make those changes and to feel good about
those changes. So it's a wonderful moment to
start a professional life. New jobs will be created
in the next five, 10 years. So no one will be
ready for those, but being able to develop a
certain set of skills. which will open those
doors in the future. So as soon as those exist
and those are of interest for you, you'll be
just able to grab them and go for them. It's
absolutely aligned on everything you just said.
And it takes us to how does your day -to -day
look like now? So not surprisingly, I changed
a lot and I experiment on different things. In
the beginning of my career, I was in a sector
that is called regulatory affairs. What it means,
it is that it's the people that interpret the
scientific studies that are done about a new
product. And they analyze if the science the
company is producing is enough to prove that
that new pharmaceutical product is safe and effective
for patients. And so by that description, you
can already start grasping that it's a little
academic in nature. You have to like to study,
you have to like to learn, to problem solve.
It's quite structured as a piece of work. So
if you are someone that likes structure and following
a certain path of logic, it can be a quite interesting
area to explore. But then, today I work with
digital transformation. And when I say that,
there are some people that immediately think
about technology, artificial intelligence, GNI,
chativity. They're not wrong. But the core of
what I work is actually with people. How we as
individuals can get ready to embrace those new
tools, embrace that new reality. So what is the
future of our skills? What are the future of
the jobs? What are the future of ways of working
and of our culture and our behaviors? That's
what I work with. By that description, you can
already start to grasp that it is very much more
unpredictable than analyzing scientific studies.
It's fast evolving. And that's what it makes
very exciting. Not only because technology is
evolving insanely fast, but as well because every
time you're working with people, it's already
implicit that it's going to be about being creative
and being adaptable. Because you never really
know how people are going to react to a certain
change or to a certain emerging trend. So all
of that shows. how everything is possible. Because
I started in a career where structure and problem
solving, being academic was very important. And
now I am in a field that is about creativity
and adaptability and working with how to help
people manage change. There is one thing that
connects it, and I think that is an important
message as well. Not only that you can change
and you can adapt and you can evolve and you
can find different fields that nurture different
parts of your interests, but as well that you
have to have something that connects it. That
is the element, the red thread that guides your
decisions going forward. For me, it was this
strong sense of purpose that the pharmaceutical
industry brings me that what I'm doing is ultimately
to support medicines getting in the hands of
patients. Was it analyzing scientific dossiers
or is it now helping people inside of the company
getting prepared for the usage of new technology?
Both of them were enabling that mission and that
purpose of supporting health. So if you have
found something that resonates with you and it
doesn't need to be very clear in the beginning,
you will also figure it out as you go. But eventually
finding what makes you get out of bed in the
morning and how can you make it real through
your career moves. Yes, absolutely. The purpose
is something you should definitely be looking
into. But you know what? It doesn't need to be
within your job. You can have it on the side
through volunteering or as simple as a passion
project or activities on the side. You will be
able to find something eventually, but you have
to start looking for it. And if you are curious
about the regulatory affairs world that Mayra
just mentioned, this job exists in so many sectors.
It doesn't need to be in the pharmaceutical field.
It exists in the public, private sector. If you
just type it online, you'll see that that job
exists everywhere. And Mayra, we are reaching
the last two questions and I would love to discuss
mentorship. Did you have a mentor? And if you
did, what did they teach you? I had so many,
so, so many. I was very lucky. And sometimes,
I had people who formally acted as mentors or
sponsors, but I also had people who just inspired
me and I admired them. And because of that, I
could get motivated and learn from them. So I
think you can have all of those three. You can
have formal mentors, formal sponsors, and also
just people you admire and that inspire you.
And all the three of them can have impacts on
your path. And just a parenthesis before I dig
a bit deeper, the difference between mentors
and sponsors, in case that's not so clear. So
a mentor is someone who probably has faced the
same challenges that you're looking into facing
and therefore can help you understand what kind
of actions you can make. So if you're trying
to learn, for example, how to be a better public
speaker, a mentor normally is someone you already...
Consider it as a good public speaker and therefore
can help you unlock that learning. A sponsor
is slightly different. A sponsor is someone who
will mention your name in a room full of opportunities.
So someone that will help you get new opportunities
when you're not there, when you're not in the
room. So someone that knows your work, knows
your worth, and is ready to vouch for you. We
do have mentors that can act as sponsors as well,
but it's important to understand that difference
so that you can collect both in your life. Great
mentors, but as well, great sponsors. And I had,
when you asked me, like, do you think about something
particularly that changed the course of your
path? I immediately, I felt about three different
leaders, two female leaders and one male leader.
That really changed my course and had a strong
impact in me and in my career. And the three
of them for the same reason. Because they believed
in me. They saw my potential. They showed me
I was ready for bigger things, even when I wasn't
sure. And they empowered me and made me feel
trusted and supported to take those steps. So
it's a mix between believing in me and sometimes
believing in me more than I believed in myself
at a certain point. And as well, empowering me
to then make the best usage of that trust and
that opportunity. So I think the three of them
have done the same in different moments of my
career. And I couldn't be where I am without
them. Wow. It's so inspiring and also so important
we realize how it's not a one woman or one man
job. It's the result of your environment and
how sometimes people can proactively reach out
to you and see the potential that you have or
you just have been working very, very rigorously
and demonstrated so many behavioral skills that
are talking for you. If you're not being proactive,
but I do have some questions there. Do you remember
how they empowered you? Yes. All of them at some
point saw that I was going to say no to an opportunity
because I felt I was not ready and came talk
to me and say, you are ready. Tell me a little
bit more about why you think you're not. And
then I would describe all my insecurities. and
all my fears. And they would always say, what
is the worst thing that can happen? And I would
describe this very apocalyptic scenario where
I fail miserably and all my life's lost. And
they would always come back to me and say, first,
how likely it is that you're really going to
fail that miserably. Second, We are in this together.
You're not doing it by yourself. If we are giving
you that chance, it's because we believe in your
potential and we believe that you can make it.
And we're going to be in this path together.
So in different ways, each one of them with their
own style. The message was always the same. It's
that message of support. We are doing this together.
And this message of, I believe. in your potential
even more than I could really believe in myself.
It's so interesting. And do you think that now
after hearing them and seeing that you were indeed
successful in your next opportunity, do you still
have this self -talk about if something else
comes my way, I will need someone to empower
me again? Yes and no. I think some, I don't know
if you ever have ever heard about imposter syndrome.
You can read a lot about it in the internet.
If you just type imposter syndrome, there is
a lot of resources that will pop up. But basically
it is when you think that you are an imposter,
that you don't necessarily deserve the things
that happen to you. And that one day people will
find out that you're not as good as they think.
You are, and then you're going to fail. That's
basically what is behind. And funny enough, this
feeling, this feeling of inadequacy or not being
enough is much more common in high performers
and high achievers. So the better you are, actually,
the better your performance and the better your
potential is, the more you tend to feel. At some
point, people will find out that you're not as
good as they think you are. So it's funny to
have that very strong, proven correlation of
performance and this feeling of not being good
enough. And I think this is where some days I
still struggle with it. And it is a long life
battle of saying, yes, I can do it. So today
I feel more ready than I have ever been in my
past to accept those challenges and to feel ready
for those challenges. But I still stumble on
it sometimes. I remember when I was promoted
to a director level position for the first time.
I called my best friends at work to celebrate
with them that I had had this promotion. And
they said, oh, but what is going to be your title?
And I told them, oh, it's director of blah, blah,
blah. But, you know, I don't know why the HR
calls this position director. I minimized that
in front of them, the fact that it was a director
position. And they caught this. They caught that
I was. I didn't feel ready and therefore I was
telling them not to mind so much the fact that
it was a director position. And one of them,
and that's why it is absolutely great to surround
yourself with people that believe in you and
that can be there for you in those moments. She
called me later and said, Mayara, this is imposter
syndrome. You got a director level position because
you are a director. Congratulations. feel happy
and proud about it so I was very lucky to have
that friend at that moment that would call me
up on it but it's just the proof to say that
it's not because you have achieved a lot in your
career that at some point you just feel ready
for everything it's absolutely normal to have
doubts to have moments where you're not 100 %
sure and then to surround yourself with this
environment of other people that believe in you
And that can be there for you in this journey
so that you can be courageous about your career
moves. Thank you so much. And it's so lovely
to hear that you are surrounded by the right
people. And it takes time sometimes to find them.
But when you do find them, cherish them because
you will need this boost. And as you said, it's
a lifetime of thinking those things, even if
you work on them, etc. It's difficult. It's difficult
because, as you said, Your role are changing,
your responsibilities are changing. So it means
that you also have to rethink your position.
So absolutely positive self -talk, surrounding
yourself by the right people is definitely a
life changer. And it leads us to our last question.
You have shared a lot of advice with everyone.
It feels like it's very repetitive, but I want
to finish on this because I know that you probably
will just emphasize this on the great advice
you've shared so far. So last question. Do you
have any final advice for our listeners? I do
have one. I think you should have to pick only
one advice. That's the mindset I try to think
about your question. And for me, it is to find...
The right balance between staying humble and
curious and as well believing in yourself and
knowing your worth. And there is a reason why
I say it's a balance. Because if you stay humble
and curious, but only that, then you can end
up diminishing yourself and having, therefore,
imposter syndrome or not necessarily going for
opportunities because you're going to feel so
humble. that you're going to feel that you're
not ready or not worth. And at the same time,
if you believe in yourself and know your worth
too much, but this is not in equilibrium with
staying humble and curious, then this is where
you might indeed reach out to opportunities that
you're not ready for. And you can come across
as being very full for yourself. being even understood
as someone, well, not humble is the right word.
So the sweet spot there is where you can have
the strength to grow limitless. If you can balance
those two characteristics of being humble, being
curious, asking questions, always pursuing to
learn and putting yourself in the shoes of eternal
learning, lifelong learning. But at the same
time, believing in yourself and in your potential
and knowing your worth, then you're going to
be unstoppable. Those are great advice to finish
this episode. Thank you so much, Mayra, for everything
that you shared, for every thought that you put
behind the questions and every insight that you
took the time to deeply explain to the people
who are listening to us. I'm so grateful for
your time. I really hope that you will inspire
people as much as you just inspired me. Thank
you. Those are great advice to finish this episode.
Thank you so much, Mayra, for everything that
you shared, for every thought that you put behind
the questions and every insights that you took
the time to deeply explain to the people who
are listening to us. I'm so grateful for your
time. And I really hope that you will inspire
people as much as you just inspired me. Thank
you so much. We talked a little bit about purpose.
And I think the work that you're doing here has
a lot of purpose. And that's what drove me to
be here with you today. So I strongly appreciate
that you decided to do this and put your energy
and your passion into this beautiful project.
Congratulations. Thank you so much, Maya. I highly
appreciate it. And thank you, everyone, for listening.
Please do reach out on X. and threads and instagram
and tiktok if you have any questions if you want
me to deep dive on more elements next time i
have an amazing guest and if you just have any
other suggestions looking forward to hearing
from you see you soon