WEBVTT 00:00:00.650 --> 00:00:03.250 Hello and welcome to And you How Did You Make It, 00:00:03.310 --> 00:00:06.110 the podcast in which we explore each step that 00:00:06.110 --> 00:00:08.970 has built the carry part of various individuals, 00:00:09.570 --> 00:00:12.169 through the discovery of their habits, passions, 00:00:12.609 --> 00:00:15.730 interests over the few last decades. I'm Yusra, 00:00:15.949 --> 00:00:20.070 your host, and today we meet Emina. Emina has 00:00:20.070 --> 00:00:23.050 so far lived in five countries. Some can be seen 00:00:23.050 --> 00:00:26.190 as a choice, others as her destiny, and others 00:00:26.190 --> 00:00:29.750 the sum of her hard work. She graciously walk 00:00:29.750 --> 00:00:33.189 us through the path of advice at each major step. 00:00:33.909 --> 00:00:36.829 She puts herself in your shoes and takes your 00:00:36.829 --> 00:00:40.350 hand to lift you as high as she can. As a Hayati 00:00:40.350 --> 00:00:43.429 version bodies motivation, strength and drive. 00:00:44.090 --> 00:00:47.869 Let's learn from her. Hi, Emina, and welcome 00:00:47.869 --> 00:00:50.750 to the show. I'm so happy to have you with us 00:00:50.750 --> 00:00:54.609 today. Hi, everyone. I'm so happy to be here 00:00:54.609 --> 00:00:57.820 to discuss very important issues that I've been 00:00:57.820 --> 00:01:02.539 passionate about since forever. I'm Emina. I 00:01:02.539 --> 00:01:06.200 am originally from Bosnia -Herzegovina. I live 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:10.840 in Dublin and I work for Google as a policy lead 00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:14.200 in the trust and safety space for over four years 00:01:14.200 --> 00:01:17.959 now. I can't wait to share what to view to every 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:20.219 country you've lived in, what has been driving 00:01:20.219 --> 00:01:24.079 you. But for now, I would love to hear what is 00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:27.659 your definition of success. Oh yeah, for sure. 00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:31.000 I would say my definition of success has evolved 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:34.500 over the years. When I was in school, before 00:01:34.500 --> 00:01:39.379 I had any job yet, I've always strived to gain 00:01:39.379 --> 00:01:42.579 financial independence, because for me, this 00:01:42.579 --> 00:01:47.859 meant the freedom to make my own decisions. And 00:01:47.859 --> 00:01:53.120 I'm very happy that I got there. Once you do 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:56.650 get there, though... spoiler alert, you realize 00:01:56.650 --> 00:02:02.010 that it is not everything. And now I'd say a 00:02:02.010 --> 00:02:06.790 very important element of success for me is finding 00:02:06.790 --> 00:02:14.849 inner peace as well, which means less anxiety 00:02:14.849 --> 00:02:19.129 about work, being more chill, being more present 00:02:19.129 --> 00:02:22.400 in the moment, I think is something that A lot 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:25.020 of people neglect as not that important, but 00:02:25.020 --> 00:02:31.199 it is really life consuming. And yeah, I'm sure 00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:34.819 once you get there, you'll know what I mean. 00:02:35.300 --> 00:02:38.639 Freedom to make your own decisions. This is such 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:41.000 an important aspect to success to me as well. 00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:45.580 Thank you for sharing, Emina. And this is actually 00:02:45.580 --> 00:02:47.740 something that you should keep in mind as we 00:02:47.740 --> 00:02:51.560 are sharing every single story on the show. Okay, 00:02:51.659 --> 00:02:54.759 so let's start with a deep dive on what has been 00:02:54.759 --> 00:02:58.199 driving you as you were younger, the classes 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:01.699 you preferred, the interests you had. What can 00:03:01.699 --> 00:03:05.099 you share with us? Just a little bit of context. 00:03:06.020 --> 00:03:09.599 I was a refugee when I turned three years old 00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:13.759 when the war started in Bosnia and we moved to 00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:17.740 Germany where I started primary school until 00:03:17.740 --> 00:03:21.370 the age of nine. And then I continued primary 00:03:21.370 --> 00:03:25.990 school and we returned home. Now, irrespective 00:03:25.990 --> 00:03:29.110 of my experience in either countries, what I 00:03:29.110 --> 00:03:32.610 was always the most attracted to was arts and 00:03:32.610 --> 00:03:37.069 crafting. And I could really spend hours on doing 00:03:37.069 --> 00:03:41.629 extracurricular activities related to the creative 00:03:41.629 --> 00:03:47.289 field. That was one. And the other was languages. 00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:51.580 we started learning English in primary school. 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:55.960 German was my, although not my mother tongue, 00:03:56.120 --> 00:03:58.419 was the first language I learned to read and 00:03:58.419 --> 00:04:04.039 write. So yeah, I would add languages and literature 00:04:04.039 --> 00:04:08.159 to that. And how often were you able to focus 00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:12.580 on your interests? So I was doing it almost every 00:04:12.580 --> 00:04:15.580 day to a point where my parents had to drag me 00:04:15.580 --> 00:04:19.149 out of the house. to play with other kids on 00:04:19.149 --> 00:04:22.810 the weekends. I would be so absorbed and just 00:04:22.810 --> 00:04:25.910 consumed with the process. And it is to this 00:04:25.910 --> 00:04:30.589 day, this one activity that makes me feel being 00:04:30.589 --> 00:04:34.910 in the zone. So yeah, it was anything you can 00:04:34.910 --> 00:04:41.069 imagine. Painting, creating with cardboard, with 00:04:41.069 --> 00:04:44.889 all sorts of materials. Yeah, this is where my 00:04:44.889 --> 00:04:48.240 height was. And were you able to incorporate 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:50.199 your interest in your day -to -day life, like 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:56.620 at school? Yeah. I mean, I remember always before 00:04:56.620 --> 00:05:01.480 the start of a new school year, I would decorate 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:09.560 all my notebooks before. And a lot of friends 00:05:09.560 --> 00:05:13.240 in my class would ask me to do the same for them. 00:05:13.610 --> 00:05:17.529 Or if I would come up with something new, like 00:05:17.529 --> 00:05:20.029 I would be interested in making bracelets, for 00:05:20.029 --> 00:05:24.389 example. I was looking for opportunities to make 00:05:24.389 --> 00:05:30.649 more of it, so I would offer to make it to friends 00:05:30.649 --> 00:05:36.350 in class. I became very quickly known. Anything 00:05:36.350 --> 00:05:42.029 related. Do you know why you started or how? 00:05:42.300 --> 00:05:46.259 crafts and creativity impacted your school years? 00:05:47.079 --> 00:05:52.000 Looking back, I would say I've always felt like 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:58.540 an outsider in school, both in primary and throughout 00:05:58.540 --> 00:06:02.819 my education, because I started as a refugee 00:06:02.819 --> 00:06:07.939 kid where I really, really wanted to fit in. 00:06:08.220 --> 00:06:12.870 I was trying to have to speak as accent -free 00:06:12.870 --> 00:06:18.870 as possible in German, to share as many interests 00:06:18.870 --> 00:06:22.170 as possible with the, I wouldn't say the cool 00:06:22.170 --> 00:06:24.310 kids, but with all the other kids who were from 00:06:24.310 --> 00:06:29.029 there. And then the same happened when I returned 00:06:29.029 --> 00:06:33.709 to my country, because I returned halfway through. 00:06:35.379 --> 00:06:38.579 the school year and I didn't know anyone and 00:06:38.579 --> 00:06:40.959 everyone already had friends and I was this new 00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:47.420 person. So it was ingrained in me from a very 00:06:47.420 --> 00:06:50.500 young age that I always have to do something 00:06:50.500 --> 00:06:57.199 extra to compensate for my background. I've always 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:07.279 been a mix of introvert and extrovert. And my 00:07:07.279 --> 00:07:10.879 introverted side has definitely flourished doing 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:17.879 all my creativity and craft projects. I was never 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:21.699 shy to share it with other people. I love how 00:07:21.699 --> 00:07:25.220 you brought your crafts and creativity in school. 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:30.279 You already were building a whole identity for 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:32.560 yourself as someone who's not only a student 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:36.439 or new students. but also a creative individual 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:41.339 who had interests and sparked curiosity among 00:07:41.339 --> 00:07:46.439 her peers. Did you realize it at the time? Do 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:52.079 you know if you're still doing this today? Yeah, 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:54.819 yeah, that's for sure. And I think this is something 00:07:54.819 --> 00:07:57.279 that has defined not only my school years, but 00:07:57.279 --> 00:08:02.139 later on my work life is that I have always thrived 00:08:02.139 --> 00:08:05.449 to be more than just what my main occupation 00:08:05.449 --> 00:08:12.269 is in that moment. I was always looking for activities 00:08:12.269 --> 00:08:16.689 outside the mandatory classes or just outside 00:08:16.689 --> 00:08:21.290 my line of work. I love how you explored that 00:08:21.290 --> 00:08:24.889 at such a young age on what stimulates you and 00:08:24.889 --> 00:08:28.290 couldn't urge more people to do that as well. 00:08:29.689 --> 00:08:33.159 When I was younger, I used to practice more sports 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:35.600 and read more than doing anything on the creative 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:39.659 side, outside of the classes that we had in the 00:08:39.659 --> 00:08:43.820 French system. Because I didn't think I was that 00:08:43.820 --> 00:08:47.960 good, but now I'm trying to do it as often as 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:53.440 I can. It just calms your mind. I find it so 00:08:53.440 --> 00:08:57.370 therapeutic and it allows you to forget on about 00:08:57.370 --> 00:08:59.830 all the responsibilities that you have on the 00:08:59.830 --> 00:09:03.389 side, at least for a while. Yes. You just focus 00:09:03.389 --> 00:09:05.610 on the moment, on what you can create, what comes 00:09:05.610 --> 00:09:10.110 to mind, how you feel. We talked about creativity 00:09:10.110 --> 00:09:14.389 and languages and literature. Can you tell us 00:09:14.389 --> 00:09:16.929 more about your background? So you were already 00:09:16.929 --> 00:09:22.049 bilingual at the age of five, six? Yes. So when 00:09:22.049 --> 00:09:28.070 I started school at six, I was already bilingual, 00:09:28.429 --> 00:09:35.269 Bosnian and German. And then I became trilingual 00:09:35.269 --> 00:09:40.409 with English probably towards the end of university. 00:09:43.269 --> 00:09:47.429 Not through living abroad, but through school 00:09:47.429 --> 00:09:52.029 and activities, international activities like 00:09:52.029 --> 00:09:55.519 conferences and that kind of thing. And then 00:09:55.519 --> 00:10:00.500 I added Spanish to it at this point, maybe eight 00:10:00.500 --> 00:10:04.759 or seven years ago, just out of curiosity. But 00:10:04.759 --> 00:10:08.759 in the meantime, I have married an Argentinian 00:10:08.759 --> 00:10:14.039 man and I speak close to fluent Spanish with 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:19.360 my in -laws. So that was the last of my foreign 00:10:19.360 --> 00:10:23.159 languages. I love what you just said right there. 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:26.600 you were able to become fluent in English when 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:30.299 you finished uni. Sometimes we think that we 00:10:30.299 --> 00:10:34.600 need to travel regularly at a young age and be 00:10:34.600 --> 00:10:38.759 exposed to the abroad and have more opportunity 00:10:38.759 --> 00:10:41.440 to actually be exposed to those English native 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:45.899 speakers or just English speakers. But we don't 00:10:45.899 --> 00:10:48.840 necessarily have the means to do that financially. 00:10:49.659 --> 00:10:55.620 Absolutely. I was actually very old. into speaking 00:10:55.620 --> 00:10:58.580 English fluently, when I learned that other people 00:10:58.580 --> 00:11:04.379 did something called language courses between 00:11:04.379 --> 00:11:09.639 semesters or during school times off, I had no 00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:13.519 idea people did that. And even if I did, my financial 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:15.860 situation would have never allowed my parents 00:11:15.860 --> 00:11:18.960 to do the same thing for me. So absolutely, you 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:21.840 don't have to leave your country to learn a foreign 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:26.179 language. couldn't agree more. Nowadays we are 00:11:26.179 --> 00:11:29.179 so globalized and our access to resources is 00:11:29.179 --> 00:11:33.840 so extensive that it would be just excuses if 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:36.519 you cannot learn Spanish, French, English or 00:11:36.519 --> 00:11:39.480 any other languages. Yeah, I have friends now 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:42.820 who are learning Italian with a native speaker 00:11:42.820 --> 00:11:47.580 just online. That's amazing. Okay, so you said 00:11:47.580 --> 00:11:51.220 that you were a mix of extroverted, introverted... 00:11:51.419 --> 00:11:54.240 Do you know what you wanted to do at that age 00:11:54.240 --> 00:12:01.460 growing up? No, I didn't. And I never found the 00:12:01.460 --> 00:12:04.139 answer to that question, not even to this day. 00:12:04.820 --> 00:12:07.600 So whenever someone would ask me, what do you 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:11.279 want to be when you grow up? I would panic. I 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:14.519 would think that I have to know the answer. And 00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:19.039 if I don't, then I'm already too late. Which 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:24.740 then later... which kind of guided me in choosing 00:12:24.740 --> 00:12:29.100 my high school, which was a grammar school. So 00:12:29.100 --> 00:12:32.720 it was not unlike all other high schools available 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:36.700 for me in Bosnia. It was not focused on any specific 00:12:36.700 --> 00:12:42.039 profession or industry. And then university, 00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:45.919 we'll talk later on about that, but it also informed 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:48.820 what I studied later on at university because 00:12:49.210 --> 00:12:53.490 I always wanted to keep my options open, to do 00:12:53.490 --> 00:12:56.570 something as broad as possible so that I have, 00:12:57.330 --> 00:13:00.149 so that I keep my options open. You don't have 00:13:00.149 --> 00:13:03.809 to have it figured out. I couldn't agree more. 00:13:04.649 --> 00:13:07.309 And you change so much as you grow older as well. 00:13:07.789 --> 00:13:11.269 The version of yourself at the age of 13 and 00:13:11.269 --> 00:13:13.929 then moving into a high school would be different. 00:13:14.389 --> 00:13:16.610 And as well as your interests, as you try to 00:13:16.610 --> 00:13:21.409 explore more. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, there are 00:13:21.409 --> 00:13:24.429 very, very few people in this world who stay 00:13:24.429 --> 00:13:26.649 interested in the same thing and end up doing 00:13:26.649 --> 00:13:29.850 just that, like someone who wanted to be a doctor 00:13:29.850 --> 00:13:32.570 all their life, for example. But that's not how 00:13:32.570 --> 00:13:36.289 reality works. And I think because we have this 00:13:36.289 --> 00:13:42.370 idea that we have to pursue this one thing, this 00:13:42.370 --> 00:13:46.169 makes us feel like a failure maybe if we halfway 00:13:46.169 --> 00:13:48.970 through discover that, oh, actually, I don't 00:13:48.970 --> 00:13:51.350 like this. I don't want to do this for the rest 00:13:51.350 --> 00:13:54.690 of my life. But whoa, now I have invested all 00:13:54.690 --> 00:13:57.549 these years and resources in it. I cannot just 00:13:57.549 --> 00:14:02.350 give up. And that way of thinking just makes 00:14:02.350 --> 00:14:08.429 you end up being very miserable in life. This 00:14:08.429 --> 00:14:10.470 whole episode, you might just hear how much I 00:14:10.470 --> 00:14:14.590 agree with Emina. But yes, I couldn't agree 00:14:14.590 --> 00:14:17.769 more. You are putting so much pressure on yourself. 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:21.440 It might sound like, well, we are older and it 00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:24.019 sounds a little bit easy for us to say that to 00:14:24.019 --> 00:14:27.059 you, but the message that we hope you get from 00:14:27.059 --> 00:14:30.399 it is that don't take things too seriously and 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:33.259 be curious and eager to learn as much as possible 00:14:33.259 --> 00:14:36.179 as you're completely allowed to change your mind 00:14:36.179 --> 00:14:40.100 on your interest and career path that which you 00:14:40.100 --> 00:14:42.940 want to take and all you need are strong foundations 00:14:42.940 --> 00:14:46.000 and drive, and then you can move from one to 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:52.820 another. Exactly. I wish I was told this when 00:14:52.820 --> 00:14:55.980 I was very little, that you have the right to 00:14:55.980 --> 00:15:00.980 change your mind. And it's not a failure if you 00:15:00.980 --> 00:15:03.159 want to start over or if you change your mind. 00:15:04.379 --> 00:15:06.419 And it's never too late. I think what everyone 00:15:06.419 --> 00:15:08.879 will share with you on this show, on this podcast, 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:12.240 is that they were driven by curiosity, learnings, 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:15.419 and very excited to find mother interests. Most 00:15:15.419 --> 00:15:18.600 of them were scared. but they will still jump 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:21.460 to take their next risk and to find what works 00:15:21.460 --> 00:15:24.600 for them. But we'll get back to that, of course. 00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:27.480 Okay, let's go back to your high school years. 00:15:28.059 --> 00:15:30.580 What kind of students were you? Was it clearer 00:15:30.580 --> 00:15:34.299 for you before going to uni on what you thought 00:15:34.299 --> 00:15:40.960 you needed or wanted to do? So, I went to grammar 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:46.639 school, which... Usually, to get into grammar 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:48.440 school, you usually have to have very good grades 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:54.299 from primary school. And it's a rather competitive 00:15:54.299 --> 00:16:00.220 environment. I was always chasing the best grades 00:16:00.220 --> 00:16:06.759 throughout my education. I was still interested 00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:17.820 in art. My interest in languages persisted. My 00:16:17.820 --> 00:16:23.700 interest in history increased. I wrote my final 00:16:23.700 --> 00:16:27.740 thesis in high school on the second world war. 00:16:30.860 --> 00:16:34.340 I got, I started to develop a strong interest 00:16:34.340 --> 00:16:39.200 in politics at the time as well. So I'd say that 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:43.480 creative and art side of me shifted a little. 00:16:46.350 --> 00:16:50.590 However, until my final year at grammar school, 00:16:50.990 --> 00:16:54.990 I did not know what I want to study and I was 00:16:54.990 --> 00:17:02.370 changing my mind. My options were diplomacy, 00:17:03.730 --> 00:17:10.130 politics, journalism. I guess the reason why 00:17:10.130 --> 00:17:16.740 I was drawn to these was because I liked talking 00:17:16.740 --> 00:17:23.000 publicly, like I like being on the stage. Not 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:25.640 that I did a lot of it, but this is something 00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:35.000 that energized me, let's say. And then instead 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:40.339 of all of these, I chose law. I guess my thinking 00:17:40.339 --> 00:17:44.759 was law is the most serious out of these, has 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:49.619 the best potential of turning into a good income 00:17:49.619 --> 00:17:55.940 for me down the line while still keeping options 00:17:55.940 --> 00:17:58.819 open because there's so many careers I can do 00:17:58.819 --> 00:18:04.579 with law. Which I think I was a little naive 00:18:04.579 --> 00:18:07.799 at the time about, but that was the thinking. 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:11.420 And do you remember why you were interested in 00:18:11.420 --> 00:18:14.940 politics, diplomacy, history? Maybe I will first 00:18:14.940 --> 00:18:18.240 start by saying that I discarded the idea of 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:22.359 going into a creative field because although 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:27.420 my heart was very much in it, I could not imagine 00:18:27.420 --> 00:18:33.119 it as a serious career at the time. And so I 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:37.319 was looking for something more serious, quote 00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:45.519 unquote. We were involved in some projects in 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:49.079 the grammar school that were around human rights, 00:18:50.859 --> 00:18:53.940 around awareness about how politics affects your 00:18:53.940 --> 00:18:56.960 life. I think that project was going on when 00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:02.579 I was in the second year in grammar school. And 00:19:02.579 --> 00:19:08.349 through that project, We got to meet some politicians, 00:19:08.869 --> 00:19:14.009 some journalists. So that was one reason why 00:19:14.009 --> 00:19:17.730 my interest grew. And the other one was I was 00:19:17.730 --> 00:19:21.970 a lot involved in working for an NGO during the 00:19:21.970 --> 00:19:27.130 time as a volunteer. And this was a youth organization 00:19:27.130 --> 00:19:33.859 and we did projects with There are some UN agencies 00:19:33.859 --> 00:19:36.599 still in Bosnia who stayed there after the war 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:40.059 and they're investing a lot in projects for, 00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:43.900 still do projects for young people. So because 00:19:43.900 --> 00:19:47.279 I was now in touch with people who do this type 00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:52.220 of work, I started imagining myself doing something 00:19:52.220 --> 00:19:58.299 similar. So I guess it was exposure to people 00:19:58.299 --> 00:20:02.339 in that field. And at the same time. a lack of 00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:05.779 exposure of people who made art work for themselves. 00:20:07.500 --> 00:20:09.720 Yes, I was about to ask you if you had a chance 00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:12.599 to be exposed to people working in creative fields. 00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:16.160 That makes so much sense. I'm so glad you had 00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:18.240 the opportunity to be exposed to different fields. 00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:21.660 It's very difficult to have this opportunity 00:20:21.660 --> 00:20:26.000 to be to have access to passionate individuals 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:29.599 who have the time to share at least a glimpse 00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:35.059 of the work that they are doing and to inspire 00:20:35.059 --> 00:20:39.660 us to be one of them. And it is an even greater 00:20:39.660 --> 00:20:43.400 opportunity to discover new jobs out there which 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:47.279 could match our interests and passions. I do 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:53.539 hope this podcast feels part of this need. 100%, 00:20:53.539 --> 00:20:58.119 I think very few of us have the opportunity to 00:20:58.119 --> 00:21:02.420 actually understand what a job entails practically 00:21:02.420 --> 00:21:05.220 on a day -to -day basis before we make this huge 00:21:05.220 --> 00:21:11.819 decision of studying that field. We, I at least, 00:21:12.180 --> 00:21:14.799 ended up making my decision based on the idea 00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:21.109 I had of what that um, course, uh, or this university 00:21:21.109 --> 00:21:25.910 could give me back as a career, but I never, 00:21:26.730 --> 00:21:31.309 never really saw the, the, um, how it looks in 00:21:31.309 --> 00:21:36.450 real life. Maybe I also to add to it, I kind 00:21:36.450 --> 00:21:39.450 of had the idea looking at the example of my 00:21:39.450 --> 00:21:43.970 parents of what I did not want for my job to 00:21:43.970 --> 00:21:47.940 look like. Um, I was looking at my dad. My dad 00:21:47.940 --> 00:21:51.599 is a veterinarian who is basically available 00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:58.220 24 -7. He works with big animals. All our life, 00:21:58.279 --> 00:22:00.779 he would be called up at three in the morning 00:22:00.779 --> 00:22:05.099 if needed for emergencies, et cetera. So looking 00:22:05.099 --> 00:22:10.779 at that, I knew I wanted a stable office job, 00:22:11.220 --> 00:22:14.579 nine to five, where I have my weekends. where 00:22:14.579 --> 00:22:18.460 I don't have to think too much about the job 00:22:18.460 --> 00:22:22.000 once I've closed my computer. My mom, she worked 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:25.099 in an office and this is why I waited in for 00:22:25.099 --> 00:22:28.180 myself. I would prefer office to what my dad 00:22:28.180 --> 00:22:35.140 does, but my mom was an accountant and I found 00:22:35.140 --> 00:22:38.319 that very, very boring. So I was like, I'm definitely 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:41.099 not doing economics, but if I can do an office 00:22:41.099 --> 00:22:44.579 job, That also entails now all of these other 00:22:44.579 --> 00:22:47.579 things I talked about, you know, maybe human 00:22:47.579 --> 00:22:53.900 rights, maybe public speaking. Maybe I can go 00:22:53.900 --> 00:22:58.099 in that direction. Makes so much sense. It's 00:22:58.099 --> 00:23:00.200 also super interesting because again, it shows 00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:03.740 that you were able to pick from what you could 00:23:03.740 --> 00:23:07.339 see firsthand. So to just have a quick call out 00:23:07.339 --> 00:23:09.720 to the people who are listening to us. please 00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:12.579 reach out to me through social media for me to 00:23:12.579 --> 00:23:14.920 ask the question that you wish you could ask 00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:17.680 to diverse professionals to get the most out 00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:21.720 of those episodes but yes again couldn't agree 00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:24.140 more Emina unless you get the chance to have a 00:23:24.140 --> 00:23:28.619 family members or friends or family members or 00:23:28.619 --> 00:23:31.240 your parents friends who proactively come to 00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:34.259 you and welcome you into their sphere to tell 00:23:34.259 --> 00:23:36.940 you all about it how can you know what you want 00:23:36.940 --> 00:23:40.930 and don't want to do Oh, yes. And I would say, 00:23:41.190 --> 00:23:44.569 please don't limit your options just based on 00:23:44.569 --> 00:23:48.829 what your parents advise you, because it's so 00:23:48.829 --> 00:23:52.569 funny looking back now. At some point, I was 00:23:52.569 --> 00:23:58.410 thinking about studying IT, maybe programming, 00:23:58.750 --> 00:24:01.410 because we had just started in grammar school, 00:24:01.970 --> 00:24:04.869 learning programming languages. And my dad told 00:24:04.869 --> 00:24:08.079 me, why would you study that? Everyone will know 00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:11.440 how to use a computer in the future anyways. 00:24:12.460 --> 00:24:16.779 So for context, I went to high school in the 00:24:16.779 --> 00:24:19.779 early 2000s. It was very, very different. We 00:24:19.779 --> 00:24:26.019 had one big PC in our kitchen. So, and I didn't 00:24:26.019 --> 00:24:30.940 really bother getting too much into that. Like 00:24:30.940 --> 00:24:34.940 that explanation at the time I found reasonable. 00:24:36.210 --> 00:24:38.910 Yes, because the older generation will always 00:24:38.910 --> 00:24:41.390 share advice from the extent of their own knowledge. 00:24:42.109 --> 00:24:45.750 This is where we call out again to be curious 00:24:45.750 --> 00:24:49.730 and do your own research as it's impossible for 00:24:49.730 --> 00:24:52.190 our parents, for the people around us to know 00:24:52.190 --> 00:24:55.549 everything about all sectors that exist. And 00:24:55.549 --> 00:24:57.950 there are so many new different opportunities 00:24:57.950 --> 00:25:01.150 as well, you know, like technologies challenging 00:25:01.150 --> 00:25:03.569 the way we approach different things. So there 00:25:03.569 --> 00:25:06.140 are new jobs coming up. and new skills that are 00:25:06.140 --> 00:25:09.299 needed. So never stop exploring and researching. 00:25:10.740 --> 00:25:13.640 Because if Emina had the chance to meet journalists 00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:16.099 and other professionals and make a decision. 00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:20.140 So if your high school and higher education programs 00:25:20.140 --> 00:25:23.720 do not bring you professional to meet, it's on 00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:27.900 you to look for them into social media platforms, 00:25:28.059 --> 00:25:31.759 on YouTube, on everywhere you can actually find 00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:38.829 to enroll. testimonies and shamelessly do listen 00:25:38.829 --> 00:25:44.750 to this show. Okay, so moving on to your volunteering 00:25:44.750 --> 00:25:47.690 experiences in high school, Emina, can you tell 00:25:47.690 --> 00:25:50.190 us more about them? How many hours were you spending? 00:25:51.829 --> 00:25:58.769 So let me start by saying that I was very limited 00:25:58.769 --> 00:26:03.269 with what I can do after school. back home in 00:26:03.269 --> 00:26:07.650 Bosnia in my small town. A lot of kids my age, 00:26:08.150 --> 00:26:12.470 primary, middle and high school would already 00:26:12.470 --> 00:26:19.950 go to clubs, partying. There was not really much 00:26:19.950 --> 00:26:23.970 out there like there is today, I would say. Now 00:26:23.970 --> 00:26:27.529 you can go and do robotics after school. None 00:26:27.529 --> 00:26:30.710 of this was available to me. The only thing that 00:26:30.710 --> 00:26:37.289 was available was youth clubs that were run by 00:26:37.289 --> 00:26:42.750 volunteers and funded by foreign NGOs. And these 00:26:42.750 --> 00:26:47.309 youth clubs would organize events such as sporting 00:26:47.309 --> 00:26:52.990 events on the weekend for kids or we would go 00:26:52.990 --> 00:27:00.430 and clean the riverbank or we would get some 00:27:00.430 --> 00:27:03.769 funds that we could allocate to projects that 00:27:03.769 --> 00:27:07.529 kids our age could apply for. So at one point 00:27:07.529 --> 00:27:10.829 we were reconstructing a playground like all 00:27:10.829 --> 00:27:14.609 together. It was a lot of it was very hands -on. 00:27:15.930 --> 00:27:21.289 And then through these NGOs, I continued being 00:27:21.289 --> 00:27:24.009 active at university as well. I was then able 00:27:24.009 --> 00:27:28.279 to travel. to youth conferences. And those were 00:27:28.279 --> 00:27:32.119 my first, but really my first interactions with 00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:36.819 people my age outside my country. One of the 00:27:36.819 --> 00:27:40.200 opportunities to practice English as well. And 00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:42.099 yeah, these experiences were really eye -opening. 00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:47.440 I would urge everyone to join these if you're 00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:51.440 able to in your towns. This is so interesting. 00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:53.779 So you must have learned so much during that 00:27:53.779 --> 00:27:58.299 time. Yeah, sure. Like from like very technical 00:27:58.299 --> 00:28:03.700 skills such as project management and preparing 00:28:03.700 --> 00:28:08.839 a budget for things like a playground reconstruction 00:28:08.839 --> 00:28:17.000 to public speaking, building teams, working in 00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:20.119 a team. Oh, for sure. Like real life, real life 00:28:20.119 --> 00:28:23.119 experiences there. That's incredible at such 00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:27.539 a young age. So now that you've learned about 00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:30.480 those years, you're now invited to apply to higher 00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:33.420 education. Can you tell us more about it? So 00:28:33.420 --> 00:28:37.500 I ended up with law school because I didn't know 00:28:37.500 --> 00:28:41.220 what I, what I want to be when I grow up. And 00:28:41.220 --> 00:28:48.380 I, I chose the law because I knew people who 00:28:48.380 --> 00:28:51.900 did law school and then ended up in different. 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:56.019 careers, I was thinking, okay, if I want to become 00:28:56.019 --> 00:28:59.380 a diplomat, I can do this through law school. 00:28:59.779 --> 00:29:04.099 Maybe I actually like the essence of it and I 00:29:04.099 --> 00:29:10.539 become an attorney or I become a judge. My reasoning 00:29:10.539 --> 00:29:12.720 was also if I want to work in an international 00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:16.119 organization, a lot of people with law background 00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:22.750 do exactly that. Yeah. this is how I made that 00:29:22.750 --> 00:29:26.150 decision. I found it the least limiting of all 00:29:26.150 --> 00:29:32.730 the other options. And I thought because law 00:29:32.730 --> 00:29:35.809 school is four years in Bosnia, I will have four 00:29:35.809 --> 00:29:39.809 more years until I finish university to explore 00:29:39.809 --> 00:29:43.089 and figure out what kind of jobs I will want 00:29:43.089 --> 00:29:45.549 to apply for later on. Can you tell us maybe 00:29:45.549 --> 00:29:49.089 what kind of personality would be a good fit? 00:29:49.490 --> 00:29:54.359 For law? Oh, it was such a mixed bunch in law 00:29:54.359 --> 00:30:01.940 school. And now when I reflect on where people 00:30:01.940 --> 00:30:05.500 on my course ended, I'd say half of them ended 00:30:05.500 --> 00:30:10.720 becoming actually attorneys. And the other half 00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:16.140 went, me included, branched out in different 00:30:16.140 --> 00:30:18.319 things from a friend who is now a photographer. 00:30:19.940 --> 00:30:25.779 to me, working in policy, and then another friend 00:30:25.779 --> 00:30:32.779 working for the UN. So it's really, really a 00:30:32.779 --> 00:30:35.960 mix of personalities that law works for. But 00:30:35.960 --> 00:30:39.839 for those who went into hardcore law, like in 00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:44.019 the law practice, those were very confident and 00:30:44.019 --> 00:30:50.900 strong personalities. Not necessarily You don't 00:30:50.900 --> 00:30:54.299 have to have the best grades to become the best 00:30:54.299 --> 00:30:59.980 attorney. I have friends who went into academics 00:30:59.980 --> 00:31:03.559 with the law, and this is something I explored 00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:09.359 as well. And if you want to go that way, having 00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:13.039 grades and having this academic rigor is great. 00:31:17.029 --> 00:31:20.950 From my experience, it was necessary to be successful 00:31:20.950 --> 00:31:24.609 later on. So what we can take from that is wherever 00:31:24.609 --> 00:31:27.130 you are an introvert, extrovert, confident or 00:31:27.130 --> 00:31:32.250 not, you can be successful in law school. Can 00:31:32.250 --> 00:31:34.990 you share a bit more reflections about your choice 00:31:34.990 --> 00:31:40.769 as well as you wanted to work in a specific environment? 00:31:41.789 --> 00:31:46.160 Yes. Yes. And I would say in that regard, I was 00:31:46.160 --> 00:31:49.720 right with my initial instinct of choosing law 00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:57.700 where I think I made a mistake. I saw myself 00:31:57.700 --> 00:32:03.440 working in an international organization on something 00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:09.259 that is pan -national. And that was tricky with 00:32:09.259 --> 00:32:14.440 law because I realized if I want to actually 00:32:15.310 --> 00:32:20.109 be a lawyer with what I learned in law school, 00:32:20.170 --> 00:32:23.089 I'm bound to my country because laws are national. 00:32:25.230 --> 00:32:28.029 So that was really limiting for me. If I wanted 00:32:28.029 --> 00:32:31.390 to actually be a lawyer in Germany, for example, 00:32:31.470 --> 00:32:33.849 I would have had to study law all over again. 00:32:35.630 --> 00:32:42.609 So I did end up working now in policy in international 00:32:42.609 --> 00:32:46.009 environment. I'm here in Dublin. in the most 00:32:46.009 --> 00:32:48.690 diverse Google office in the world, but that's 00:32:48.690 --> 00:32:53.450 not because I do law. So it was helpful having 00:32:53.450 --> 00:32:56.390 that background, not because of the academics, 00:32:56.750 --> 00:33:04.069 but more because I learned a lot of life skills 00:33:04.069 --> 00:33:06.630 through my career later on, working as a lawyer. 00:33:07.750 --> 00:33:14.089 I discovered though that Like the law field in 00:33:14.089 --> 00:33:16.630 itself the way I studied it was too limiting 00:33:16.630 --> 00:33:20.549 for what I developed my interest in later on 00:33:20.549 --> 00:33:25.549 So, yeah, I think you have to balance these two 00:33:25.549 --> 00:33:33.589 If you really love law You might be limited to 00:33:33.589 --> 00:33:37.130 the country where you study that law unless you 00:33:37.130 --> 00:33:42.349 want to do a take on a crazy amount of effort 00:33:42.349 --> 00:33:45.789 to change that working in another country. Like 00:33:45.789 --> 00:33:48.569 really do your research on what kind of law are 00:33:48.569 --> 00:33:51.569 you interested in? There are fields of law that 00:33:51.569 --> 00:33:55.829 are less limiting. But if your dream is to be 00:33:55.829 --> 00:34:00.210 a litigator or a judge, you will have to stay 00:34:00.210 --> 00:34:04.569 where you are, most likely. Thank you, Emina, 00:34:04.630 --> 00:34:07.930 for the insight. So crucial to know and look 00:34:07.930 --> 00:34:11.170 into the different paths. in low school to make 00:34:11.170 --> 00:34:13.949 sure that it aligns with your goals. And if you 00:34:13.949 --> 00:34:17.289 want to keep your options open, do make sure 00:34:17.289 --> 00:34:21.429 that you're going towards the right path. Oh, 00:34:21.510 --> 00:34:24.530 what kind of students were you, by the way? Oh, 00:34:24.530 --> 00:34:32.170 so I was an extremely dedicated student. Like 00:34:32.170 --> 00:34:36.769 a proper overachiever. I had the top grades. 00:34:36.769 --> 00:34:41.929 I was... in the top 1 % in my generation. And 00:34:41.929 --> 00:34:45.730 at the same time, I was truly enjoying studying. 00:34:45.909 --> 00:34:53.010 I really loved everything I studied. And I continued 00:34:53.010 --> 00:34:57.250 to follow all sorts of interests outside law 00:34:57.250 --> 00:35:02.050 school as well. I did not want to be bound just 00:35:02.050 --> 00:35:04.690 by the field. As I said, this is something that 00:35:04.690 --> 00:35:11.199 follows me my entire life. To this day, I always 00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:15.059 have in the back of my mind an expectation that, 00:35:15.059 --> 00:35:19.199 okay, this year I have to have an additional 00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:25.260 achievement outside my area of work. So during 00:35:25.260 --> 00:35:30.519 law school, I would apply to all possible student 00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:34.340 activities I could, such as international conferences, 00:35:35.699 --> 00:35:40.099 summer schools. Uh, like summer law schools, 00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:44.519 I would travel with my, with an NGO that I was 00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:52.880 working for. Um, yeah. So I, I was very diligent 00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:57.380 making sure that I finished all my exams in time. 00:35:57.559 --> 00:36:01.139 I have never had to repeat any exam. Um, so that 00:36:01.139 --> 00:36:03.980 I have my summer free. So between the two semesters 00:36:03.980 --> 00:36:08.000 in Bosnia, you have If you finish all your exams 00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:12.539 in June, I think you'll be free until October. 00:36:13.619 --> 00:36:17.179 So yeah, so I would spend a lot of time making 00:36:17.179 --> 00:36:19.639 sure I will finish all my exams in time. And 00:36:19.639 --> 00:36:22.239 then I would spend the time in between on traveling. 00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:27.300 A lot of it with scholarships. So again, the 00:36:27.300 --> 00:36:31.539 financial restraints led me to applying to all 00:36:31.539 --> 00:36:34.699 of these programs. And it's these programs for 00:36:34.699 --> 00:36:38.400 students. that enabled me actually to see the 00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:41.159 world while I was a student. I found surprised 00:36:41.159 --> 00:36:44.360 that you were a high achiever. Can you tell us 00:36:44.360 --> 00:36:48.079 more about the scholarships? Were you eligible 00:36:48.079 --> 00:36:51.039 because you were a strong student? And how did 00:36:51.039 --> 00:36:57.219 you find them? So now I'm sure everything is 00:36:57.219 --> 00:37:01.340 online at the time. So that's the 2000, I started 00:37:01.340 --> 00:37:06.159 university 2008. Around that time, it was a mix 00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:09.980 of, I would research everything I could on the 00:37:09.980 --> 00:37:14.000 internet, anything. I would search for any opportunities 00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:17.440 for students from Bosnia specifically, and I 00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:21.599 would only look at opportunities with covering 00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:25.739 all expenses. That's something that was very 00:37:25.739 --> 00:37:35.989 important. And so I ended up... I ended up doing, 00:37:35.989 --> 00:37:38.769 for example, I think it was two summers in a 00:37:38.769 --> 00:37:41.949 row doing a two -week summer school in Austria 00:37:41.949 --> 00:37:45.570 on European Union law, which I was super passionate 00:37:45.570 --> 00:37:51.469 about, conferences around reconciliation in the 00:37:51.469 --> 00:37:54.750 former Yugoslavia, the human rights aspect and 00:37:54.750 --> 00:37:57.369 international criminal law I was interested in. 00:37:57.510 --> 00:38:02.659 And then I also discovered that The year I started 00:38:02.659 --> 00:38:08.280 university, Erasmus, which I'm sure everyone 00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:11.619 studying in Europe is aware of, Erasmus actually 00:38:11.619 --> 00:38:13.820 for the first time opened the opportunity for 00:38:13.820 --> 00:38:17.420 Bosnian students to visit some of the universities 00:38:17.420 --> 00:38:21.360 in Europe. And I immediately took the chance 00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:26.440 and devoted a long time into perfecting my application 00:38:26.440 --> 00:38:29.659 for that. And then I got... got that scholarship 00:38:29.659 --> 00:38:35.159 to study one semester in Germany. So I would 00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:39.460 say it's a mix of doing my own research online, 00:38:40.039 --> 00:38:43.940 looking at notice boards at the university, and 00:38:43.940 --> 00:38:49.840 then it also is kind of one thing leads to the 00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:52.480 other because you go off to the first thing, 00:38:52.500 --> 00:38:55.320 you meet people. This is how you build your network, 00:38:55.559 --> 00:38:59.170 especially if you don't have it to begin with. 00:38:59.769 --> 00:39:01.909 You will meet people who will tell you of this 00:39:01.909 --> 00:39:05.829 other thing that you then also apply for. I mean, 00:39:06.309 --> 00:39:10.269 my siblings and my friends to this day make fun 00:39:10.269 --> 00:39:14.650 of me of how much I was chasing all these applications. 00:39:14.889 --> 00:39:20.269 I was applying all the time, applying and reapplying. 00:39:20.429 --> 00:39:23.489 Like I didn't really shy away from being rejected 00:39:23.489 --> 00:39:25.670 one year and then reapplying again the next year. 00:39:26.980 --> 00:39:30.500 to go to these conferences and to have all these 00:39:30.500 --> 00:39:33.699 experiences. So this would be really my biggest 00:39:33.699 --> 00:39:38.980 advice to all of you. Don't limit yourself to 00:39:38.980 --> 00:39:43.239 academic excellence because your life will be 00:39:43.239 --> 00:39:47.579 so much richer if you use your free time for 00:39:47.579 --> 00:39:51.760 all these other things. This is something I really 00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:54.980 don't regret investing time in at the time. and 00:39:54.980 --> 00:39:57.420 couldn't agree more, there are so many learnings 00:39:57.420 --> 00:40:00.139 there. First, do get those scholarships, study 00:40:00.139 --> 00:40:02.860 abroad, get those experiences, those internships. 00:40:03.699 --> 00:40:06.559 Second thing, try, try, try again. And if it 00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:11.360 doesn't work, take it as a redirection and try 00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:14.159 again later as Emina rightfully did and trust 00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:17.900 the process. I know it's easier said than done, 00:40:18.519 --> 00:40:21.739 but trust the process. And the third thing is, 00:40:22.380 --> 00:40:25.519 You need to go above and beyond academics because 00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:28.159 going on the field allows you to understand if 00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:30.940 you actually like it. And if you don't like it, 00:40:30.940 --> 00:40:34.159 you can actually reflect on it and see what was 00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:38.199 missing from that experience and change and decide 00:40:38.199 --> 00:40:41.719 to do something different. Lastly, if you are 00:40:41.719 --> 00:40:45.039 getting more experienced, it is going to be easier 00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:47.760 for you to find the next internship, the next 00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:52.860 job and even better. to launch your own company. 00:40:55.940 --> 00:40:58.579 100%. I think you would be surprised how many 00:40:58.579 --> 00:41:00.719 of these opportunities are out there that are 00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:04.500 fully covered financially. I really did not have 00:41:04.500 --> 00:41:09.079 to ask my parents for to finance any of it. And 00:41:09.079 --> 00:41:12.360 I didn't have to work either for it. Please don't 00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:15.000 think that you wouldn't be picked anyways if 00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:18.730 you apply. You don't know until you apply. Remember 00:41:18.730 --> 00:41:22.389 the number of motivation letters I had to write 00:41:22.389 --> 00:41:26.210 in my lifetime. And you guys now have chat GPT 00:41:26.210 --> 00:41:31.889 to help you with. Exactly. Now you have all the 00:41:31.889 --> 00:41:34.250 tools that you need to start applying everywhere. 00:41:35.690 --> 00:41:40.110 So moving after law school, what happened? So 00:41:40.110 --> 00:41:44.110 in my final year at law school, I started again 00:41:44.110 --> 00:41:46.730 doing my research on scholarships for master 00:41:46.730 --> 00:41:51.380 degrees. master's degrees, and I got the scholarship 00:41:51.380 --> 00:41:54.699 of the German government to study German and 00:41:54.699 --> 00:41:59.320 European law in Berlin, Humboldt University. 00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:03.480 Again, a fully covered scholarship that my parents 00:42:03.480 --> 00:42:06.940 didn't have to contribute to. And during that 00:42:06.940 --> 00:42:12.460 year in Germany, following my passion for that 00:42:12.460 --> 00:42:16.639 field of law, I learned about something called 00:42:16.639 --> 00:42:19.400 the Blue Book Traineeship in the European Commission. 00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.400 This is a really unique experience for graduates 00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:27.940 to work in the institutions of the EU in Brussels. 00:42:28.280 --> 00:42:31.760 And there's a very small quota that they accept 00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:35.619 from non -EU countries. Bosnia is still not in 00:42:35.619 --> 00:42:38.500 the European Union. So I didn't have high hopes, 00:42:39.260 --> 00:42:42.079 but I gave my all for that application, I can 00:42:42.079 --> 00:42:49.579 tell you. And I got in. So I finished my bachelor's, 00:42:49.579 --> 00:42:53.239 then I finished my master's degree, and then 00:42:53.239 --> 00:42:58.199 I did my traineeship, six months traineeship 00:42:58.199 --> 00:43:01.579 in Brussels in the European Commission. And that 00:43:01.579 --> 00:43:05.639 was my first work experience. Like I have never 00:43:05.639 --> 00:43:10.159 worked until that point. And how was that experience 00:43:10.159 --> 00:43:15.860 at the EU Commission? That was life -changing, 00:43:16.340 --> 00:43:19.400 really. I was working with people who are doing 00:43:19.400 --> 00:43:23.159 exactly what I was studying for years, European 00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:29.500 Union Law. And I met people I worked with from 00:43:29.500 --> 00:43:32.079 all around the world. And with many of them, 00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:35.820 I'm still in touch. So there was this element 00:43:35.820 --> 00:43:38.780 of having a really great group of friends there. 00:43:42.090 --> 00:43:45.250 It was one of the very few experiences where 00:43:45.250 --> 00:43:49.409 my expectations really matched reality or reality 00:43:49.409 --> 00:43:53.530 exceeded because I had a great team that I worked 00:43:53.530 --> 00:44:01.670 with there. It really sparked interest in me 00:44:01.670 --> 00:44:05.750 to apply for a full -time position. It wasn't 00:44:05.750 --> 00:44:09.179 possible because of my passport limitation. And 00:44:09.179 --> 00:44:14.300 I did not want to stay in Brussels on limiting 00:44:14.300 --> 00:44:16.579 contracts. So the alternative to a full -time 00:44:16.579 --> 00:44:20.639 position is being a contractor and then potentially 00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:24.639 extending these contracts. I did not want to 00:44:24.639 --> 00:44:28.039 go into that. In the meantime, I got an offer 00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:32.659 for my first full -time position in a law firm 00:44:32.659 --> 00:44:38.469 back home. I returned to Bosnia. and then worked 00:44:38.469 --> 00:44:44.110 for the next five years in an international corporate 00:44:44.110 --> 00:44:48.730 law firm. The Blue Book traineeship in Brussels 00:44:48.730 --> 00:44:53.329 is receiving so many applications every year. 00:44:53.809 --> 00:44:56.670 So congrats for making it. Sounds like it exceeded 00:44:56.670 --> 00:45:02.130 your expectation. exceed your expectation because 00:45:02.130 --> 00:45:05.289 of the team you had or the responsibilities you 00:45:05.289 --> 00:45:09.769 were given or a mix of both? So I would, first 00:45:09.769 --> 00:45:12.070 of all, I would say talking to other people who 00:45:12.070 --> 00:45:14.989 did that same traineeship, the experiences were 00:45:14.989 --> 00:45:18.389 very mixed. So some people didn't like it at 00:45:18.389 --> 00:45:22.929 all because they were not given any responsibilities. 00:45:23.110 --> 00:45:25.150 They were not given, they did not feel they were 00:45:25.150 --> 00:45:30.369 contributing. In my case with my manager at the 00:45:30.369 --> 00:45:34.449 time, I really felt like what I contributed to 00:45:34.449 --> 00:45:41.349 mattered. I was, for example, I was writing drafts 00:45:41.349 --> 00:45:43.889 that were then submitted to the European Court 00:45:43.889 --> 00:45:49.949 in Strasbourg. And I was with my manager going, 00:45:50.329 --> 00:45:54.210 I went to a hearing there. And I would say the 00:45:54.210 --> 00:45:57.630 cherry on top was months after I finished my 00:45:57.630 --> 00:46:01.809 internship. My manager called me to tell me that 00:46:01.809 --> 00:46:10.449 this paper that I wrote on a case where the European 00:46:10.449 --> 00:46:18.969 Commission was involved, which contained arguments 00:46:18.969 --> 00:46:22.389 that I came up with, that this was accepted by 00:46:22.389 --> 00:46:24.869 the court, that the court followed basically 00:46:24.869 --> 00:46:30.599 my arguments in that particular case and he wanted 00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:35.800 me to know this like he had no he did not have 00:46:35.800 --> 00:46:41.599 to let me know right but he did that so that 00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:44.159 i could fully understand how much they appreciated 00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:49.619 my work and that is really incredible like to 00:46:49.619 --> 00:46:54.380 this day i i haven't had such an experience What 00:46:54.380 --> 00:46:57.019 a lovely gesture. You must have been so proud. 00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:01.320 Understand why it was a great experience. Yeah, 00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:06.880 for sure. I would add also one learning I had 00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:10.340 through this is always stay in touch with these 00:47:10.340 --> 00:47:15.519 people. It's been over 10 years or more. I don't 00:47:15.519 --> 00:47:18.099 even want to count. But I'm still in touch with 00:47:18.099 --> 00:47:21.579 my manager from the time. And not just him, I'm 00:47:21.579 --> 00:47:24.000 still in touch with loads of people that I interned 00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:29.920 for. In the last couple of years, maybe I slowed 00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:31.820 down a little with that. I should go back to 00:47:31.820 --> 00:47:34.599 it, but I had the habit of wishing them a happy 00:47:34.599 --> 00:47:37.079 new year, wishing them happy holidays, just checking 00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:42.460 in. And this is for one, you're doing this to 00:47:42.460 --> 00:47:46.440 continue this relationship. And then on the other 00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:50.949 hand. I was able from these people to get references 00:47:50.949 --> 00:47:57.449 years later for applications. So this manager 00:47:57.449 --> 00:48:03.929 from my 2013, I think was it internship in the 00:48:03.929 --> 00:48:07.030 European commission, wrote me a reference in 00:48:07.030 --> 00:48:14.840 2018. So what is that six? seven, six years later, 00:48:15.460 --> 00:48:20.159 sorry, now I was getting mad, because we stayed 00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:22.360 in touch. So this person brought me a reference 00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:25.760 later on for a second master's degree that I 00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:32.519 did a couple of years ago. Yeah, so please take 00:48:32.519 --> 00:48:35.179 this advice and stay in touch with these people. 00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:43.699 It's also a way to show gratefulness for everything 00:48:43.699 --> 00:48:48.139 that it did for you. Exactly. Thank you, Emina, 00:48:48.139 --> 00:48:51.460 for this reminder. And moving into what you just 00:48:51.460 --> 00:48:54.000 mentioned, you decided to pursue a second master 00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:57.360 degree. Tell us everything about it. So after 00:48:57.360 --> 00:49:03.480 working five years in corporate law, halfway 00:49:03.480 --> 00:49:09.320 through that period, I realized that I no longer 00:49:09.320 --> 00:49:12.900 find it interesting. And it is not the direction 00:49:12.900 --> 00:49:16.739 I want to take for the rest of my career. And 00:49:16.739 --> 00:49:22.719 I needed a break to research what I am actually 00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:26.480 interested in. I didn't know where I want to 00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:29.519 go, but I knew that corporate law is no longer 00:49:29.519 --> 00:49:33.179 it. And I did not see myself becoming an attorney. 00:49:33.280 --> 00:49:37.440 That was like the next step. So I applied for 00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:39.880 the Chevening Scholarship, that's the scholarship 00:49:39.880 --> 00:49:46.699 of the UK government. I applied the first time, 00:49:46.719 --> 00:49:49.139 didn't get it, applied for the second time and 00:49:49.139 --> 00:49:53.320 then it worked out. With this scholarship I studied 00:49:53.320 --> 00:49:57.920 a degree called Leadership, Innovation and Creativity 00:49:57.920 --> 00:50:02.260 at Cass Business School in London and now it's 00:50:02.260 --> 00:50:07.059 called the BAE Business School. It was an interdisciplinary 00:50:07.059 --> 00:50:13.480 course combining law, business, technology, acting, 00:50:14.599 --> 00:50:19.519 and creative writing. It was amazing. It was 00:50:19.519 --> 00:50:24.139 the first time I was studying with having had 00:50:24.139 --> 00:50:27.800 work experience with people who have been in 00:50:27.800 --> 00:50:31.039 the work field for much longer than me. So people, 00:50:31.360 --> 00:50:33.739 some people were decades older than me, for instance. 00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:39.320 from different industries, learning on what sparks 00:50:39.320 --> 00:50:43.960 creativity, how do organizations innovate effectively, 00:50:44.340 --> 00:50:51.440 and how technology can be used for this. And 00:50:51.440 --> 00:50:54.739 one learning I had from this is that a master's 00:50:54.739 --> 00:50:57.840 degree is way more useful after you have had 00:50:57.840 --> 00:51:02.539 work experience. Definitely. First of all, you 00:51:02.539 --> 00:51:06.980 will choose WISER. your degree. And secondly, 00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:13.300 you will get more out of it. Yeah. And then this 00:51:13.300 --> 00:51:17.539 degree, I was doing it not knowing what the next 00:51:17.539 --> 00:51:21.300 steps will be for me. The plan was to start applying 00:51:21.300 --> 00:51:25.780 for internships maybe, just new jobs that were 00:51:25.780 --> 00:51:30.179 completely out of my comfort zone and unrelated 00:51:30.179 --> 00:51:34.800 to my previous work experience. Absolutely. gap 00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:38.460 years should be taken in the form of internship, 00:51:38.920 --> 00:51:45.099 work, travel, volunteering. If you can take it 00:51:45.099 --> 00:51:49.559 between your bachelor's programs or master programs, 00:51:49.659 --> 00:51:52.519 it actually helps you reflect instead of rushing 00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:58.340 into the next ring. Definitely. If we look back, 00:51:59.139 --> 00:52:01.699 what was missing from your corporate law experience? 00:52:02.119 --> 00:52:08.239 The work environment was too rigid, too much 00:52:08.239 --> 00:52:14.460 hierarchy, very old school. So I guess I was 00:52:14.460 --> 00:52:19.500 craving more flexibility, a more modern workspace. 00:52:20.980 --> 00:52:25.500 And that's one thing. The other thing is I was 00:52:25.500 --> 00:52:29.320 just still craving an international experience 00:52:29.320 --> 00:52:35.659 and more international environment. I've always 00:52:35.659 --> 00:52:37.500 wanted to work with people from all around the 00:52:37.500 --> 00:52:42.940 world and working in that specific law firm gave 00:52:42.940 --> 00:52:45.599 me an element of it because I worked with foreign 00:52:45.599 --> 00:52:49.780 clients. So I did work regularly in English and 00:52:49.780 --> 00:52:53.900 German, but it wasn't enough. It didn't feel 00:52:53.900 --> 00:52:57.619 enough. Well, that's, and then the third element, 00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:01.440 obviously just the, the content of my work. I 00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:05.039 was no longer interested in setting up companies, 00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:08.920 helping with mergers and acquisitions. I never 00:53:08.920 --> 00:53:13.820 found joy in that. It's quite difficult to admit 00:53:13.820 --> 00:53:17.900 to yourself to look outside of that work. You 00:53:17.900 --> 00:53:21.780 have the comfort, you have the stability. It 00:53:21.780 --> 00:53:24.000 did shake more or less the expectation that you 00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:27.420 had at the time and it aligned with your studies. 00:53:28.480 --> 00:53:31.260 Exactly. It's like you have done everything right. 00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:33.860 You finally got the job that you were studying 00:53:33.860 --> 00:53:39.219 for. You have a good salary. Everything is stable. 00:53:40.679 --> 00:53:44.059 What more should you even want to crave for? 00:53:44.579 --> 00:53:48.760 So how did you manage to move away from that? 00:53:49.019 --> 00:53:53.800 Oh yeah, like it was not that easy at all. On 00:53:53.800 --> 00:53:56.480 the outside, maybe, yes, but internally, it was 00:53:56.480 --> 00:54:00.800 such a mental struggle. It was really, really 00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:04.480 tough not knowing what's going to happen next 00:54:04.480 --> 00:54:07.760 because when you stay in your lane, you know 00:54:07.760 --> 00:54:11.519 what's going to come next. You know in advance 00:54:11.519 --> 00:54:17.820 the next stages in your career. attorney, associate, 00:54:18.260 --> 00:54:21.800 partner, it's easy. When you get out of that 00:54:21.800 --> 00:54:24.179 lane and out of an environment where everyone 00:54:24.179 --> 00:54:26.559 else around you is doing the same, because usually 00:54:26.559 --> 00:54:31.360 your friends are from university and you have 00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:33.639 very little contact with people who do something 00:54:33.639 --> 00:54:37.059 different. So it was very scary. I'm not going 00:54:37.059 --> 00:54:41.300 to lie. We might sometimes sound pretty chill 00:54:41.300 --> 00:54:44.239 on these podcasts about the decisions that are 00:54:44.239 --> 00:54:48.429 being made. But it is scary, and you're more 00:54:48.429 --> 00:54:51.630 than allowed to be scared about any new thing 00:54:51.630 --> 00:54:56.769 that you're trying to start. Of course. It might 00:54:56.769 --> 00:54:59.789 mean that you're doing something right. Exactly. 00:55:00.010 --> 00:55:02.989 Couldn't be more. You're doing things differently, 00:55:03.130 --> 00:55:07.789 and what you might be scared of is probably the 00:55:07.789 --> 00:55:12.170 failure aspect, but seeing it as a learning path, 00:55:12.409 --> 00:55:16.920 learning experience, learning... can bring a 00:55:16.920 --> 00:55:20.119 new perspective and give you the push that you 00:55:20.119 --> 00:55:24.619 need to start. You will learn, exactly. Yeah, 00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:29.300 I don't think that any one of us regrets trying 00:55:29.300 --> 00:55:33.420 something. Exactly. Even if it didn't work out. 00:55:34.119 --> 00:55:37.880 I think I've always been scared of having these 00:55:37.880 --> 00:55:41.579 what -ifs in my life. Oh, what if I try this 00:55:41.579 --> 00:55:45.980 or that? And when I assess that a situation could 00:55:45.980 --> 00:55:49.739 be a what if, that that kind of gives me strength 00:55:49.739 --> 00:55:55.400 to go for it. Yeah, and living with regrets might 00:55:55.400 --> 00:55:58.860 be more difficult, right? Oh, yeah, definitely. 00:55:59.079 --> 00:56:01.699 Like, especially when you're in these very early 00:56:01.699 --> 00:56:05.980 years out of university. One of my regrets is 00:56:05.980 --> 00:56:08.800 staying too long in the same job. Really, like 00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:11.840 you should go out and try it all out and experiment. 00:56:12.920 --> 00:56:16.780 Couldn't agree more. So now that you've reached 00:56:16.780 --> 00:56:19.219 the end of your second master's program, you're 00:56:19.219 --> 00:56:22.039 looking for an internship, which is more difficult 00:56:22.039 --> 00:56:26.440 than expected. What happened next? Yes. So it's 00:56:26.440 --> 00:56:28.679 more difficult than expected because I'm still 00:56:28.679 --> 00:56:32.599 in London on a student visa that is about to 00:56:32.599 --> 00:56:37.820 expire and no one wants to sponsor interns. So 00:56:37.820 --> 00:56:43.260 I'm struggling there. And while I am constantly 00:56:43.260 --> 00:56:46.820 working on new applications, I get a message 00:56:46.820 --> 00:56:51.239 on LinkedIn. A recruiter is asking me if I'm 00:56:51.239 --> 00:56:55.619 interested in a position at Google. And I think 00:56:55.619 --> 00:57:01.039 it's a scam, but I still respond. And then they 00:57:01.039 --> 00:57:04.659 asked me to submit my CV and they have more questions. 00:57:04.900 --> 00:57:07.320 And I start realizing, whoa, this could actually 00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:12.099 be the real thing. And it's for the position 00:57:12.099 --> 00:57:16.280 that I'm that I'm in to this day. But at the 00:57:16.280 --> 00:57:19.340 time, I had no idea that there was an industry 00:57:19.340 --> 00:57:23.639 called Trust and Safety. I had no idea that my 00:57:23.639 --> 00:57:31.219 background could fit into that industry. And 00:57:31.219 --> 00:57:36.380 spoiler alert, it actually does. I started the 00:57:36.380 --> 00:57:39.280 interviewing process without knowing anyone in 00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:43.340 Big Tech. I think that was a huge mental obstacle 00:57:43.340 --> 00:57:46.420 for me at the beginning. I thought I didn't have 00:57:46.420 --> 00:57:49.400 anyone to rely on. There was no one. Obviously 00:57:49.400 --> 00:57:53.119 I wasn't referred. That was something that's 00:57:53.119 --> 00:57:58.199 done very often in Big Tech. So my only resource 00:57:58.199 --> 00:58:03.619 was the internet. I prepared with YouTube. It's 00:58:03.619 --> 00:58:07.340 insane how many HR specialists are out there. 00:58:07.769 --> 00:58:10.789 Giving you all the details you need about how 00:58:10.789 --> 00:58:13.630 to respond those behavioral questions and like 00:58:13.630 --> 00:58:18.150 oh like You you will understand the entire process 00:58:18.150 --> 00:58:21.710 by watching YouTube videos Yeah, and so that 00:58:21.710 --> 00:58:24.289 that was the result I relied on I went through 00:58:24.289 --> 00:58:27.670 five or six interviews. I don't remember at this 00:58:27.670 --> 00:58:33.469 stage Three months in they sponsored my visa 00:58:33.469 --> 00:58:39.300 to come to Ireland And then, yeah, I moved here 00:58:39.300 --> 00:58:43.199 with the one gap that was the pandemic where 00:58:43.199 --> 00:58:46.900 I couldn't come here. But yeah, I finally did. 00:58:46.940 --> 00:58:49.800 And now I'm here for almost five years. First, 00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:53.219 thank you, Google, for bringing you here and 00:58:53.219 --> 00:58:57.039 for our past, of course. And thank you, Emina, 00:58:57.880 --> 00:59:00.559 for sharing how much knowledge is available online. 00:59:00.940 --> 00:59:04.219 And that all interviews are all about preparation 00:59:04.219 --> 00:59:07.519 and how much effort you're putting into it. Because 00:59:07.519 --> 00:59:10.480 then if it doesn't work and you're not getting 00:59:10.480 --> 00:59:13.860 hired, it's very much on something that you cannot 00:59:13.860 --> 00:59:17.059 control because you gave everything you could. 00:59:18.780 --> 00:59:22.059 100%. So I was lucky that this interview process 00:59:22.059 --> 00:59:25.239 started after I had submitted my master's thesis. 00:59:25.300 --> 00:59:28.320 So I really had time to dedicate. to it full 00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:31.039 -time and I really did. It was a full -time job. 00:59:31.260 --> 00:59:33.679 I would wake up in the middle of the night with 00:59:33.679 --> 00:59:37.679 ideas and examples on how to respond to the top 00:59:37.679 --> 00:59:41.440 10 questions that might come up. The anxiety 00:59:41.440 --> 00:59:45.679 was gone once I had this process in place, once 00:59:45.679 --> 00:59:48.679 I had my schedule and I knew I was really working 00:59:48.679 --> 00:59:55.019 towards a schedule and that after the first interview 00:59:55.019 --> 00:59:58.750 was very, very scary. But then it got easier. 01:00:00.730 --> 01:00:06.349 So that goes to show that, first of all, you 01:00:06.349 --> 01:00:09.130 are much better than you think you are. You have 01:00:09.130 --> 01:00:11.269 way more competence than you think you are. Especially 01:00:11.269 --> 01:00:13.190 if you're a woman, you are probably limiting 01:00:13.190 --> 01:00:18.150 yourself by at least 50 % by not applying. Because 01:00:18.150 --> 01:00:21.010 I would have never applied for this role. I would 01:00:21.010 --> 01:00:23.469 have never thought I'm good enough. That's one. 01:00:23.530 --> 01:00:28.710 And then the other thing is... Not having inside 01:00:28.710 --> 01:00:33.329 context or an insider network is also not the 01:00:33.329 --> 01:00:37.389 end of the world. You can prepare for it completely 01:00:37.389 --> 01:00:41.510 by yourself. People are trying countless times 01:00:41.510 --> 01:00:44.510 before getting the job that they want. So do 01:00:44.510 --> 01:00:47.050 not hesitate to send your application as many 01:00:47.050 --> 01:00:51.369 times as you can. Oh yeah. So many of my colleagues 01:00:51.369 --> 01:00:55.110 at my job have applied so many times before they 01:00:55.110 --> 01:00:57.940 got in. Like honestly, don't get discouraged 01:00:57.940 --> 01:01:01.480 by the first rejection. And expect the first 01:01:01.480 --> 01:01:06.960 rejection rather. Exactly. And women tend to 01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:09.019 apply less to jobs where they don't check all 01:01:09.019 --> 01:01:13.659 the boxes of the job offers. So keep in mind 01:01:13.659 --> 01:01:16.639 to try and see where it takes you. Especially 01:01:16.639 --> 01:01:19.659 if you're a higher tier with great grades, you 01:01:19.659 --> 01:01:24.039 are used to reaching 100%. So if you see a job 01:01:24.039 --> 01:01:28.320 listing, where you only take 70 % of the bullet 01:01:28.320 --> 01:01:31.300 points, you will likely not apply. And that's 01:01:31.300 --> 01:01:33.900 a mistake because those bullet points are not 01:01:33.900 --> 01:01:38.440 there because they're a wish list. It doesn't 01:01:38.440 --> 01:01:40.800 mean that anyone who applies is going to fulfill 01:01:40.800 --> 01:01:44.800 all of that. Exactly. And if you see yourself 01:01:44.800 --> 01:01:47.920 somewhere, just go for it. Even if you see yourself 01:01:47.920 --> 01:01:53.230 remotely there, try and you'll see. Worst case 01:01:53.230 --> 01:01:58.210 scenario, you learn from it. Exactly. So just 01:01:58.210 --> 01:02:00.769 one example. When the recruiter shared with me 01:02:00.769 --> 01:02:04.429 the job posting, asking if I was interested for 01:02:04.429 --> 01:02:09.090 it, and some of the requirements were something 01:02:09.090 --> 01:02:12.010 about language requirements, the only thing I 01:02:12.010 --> 01:02:15.510 remember was I saw that, well, but wait, I don't 01:02:15.510 --> 01:02:19.369 fulfill that requirement. And I asked the recruiter, 01:02:19.500 --> 01:02:21.900 But are you sure? Because I don't fulfill that 01:02:21.900 --> 01:02:24.860 specific requirement. The Twitter is like, yeah, 01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:28.340 we are like, no worries, just send us your CV. 01:02:29.260 --> 01:02:32.579 So that's definitely a learning that you should 01:02:32.579 --> 01:02:39.440 not take that posting too literally. Unfortunately, 01:02:39.539 --> 01:02:43.980 having to wrap up this conversation. Do you have 01:02:43.980 --> 01:02:47.559 any last advice you want to share with us? Maybe 01:02:47.559 --> 01:02:52.739 I would just... leave you with learning. A career 01:02:52.739 --> 01:02:56.420 coach once told me something I tried still to 01:02:56.420 --> 01:03:01.639 incorporate in myself, which is, don't you ever 01:03:01.639 --> 01:03:05.800 think that you are going to reach that one job 01:03:05.800 --> 01:03:11.280 eventually? There is no one job that is, we're 01:03:11.280 --> 01:03:13.679 not that generation anymore. You're not going 01:03:13.679 --> 01:03:18.219 to be at that one job forever. Just expect and 01:03:18.219 --> 01:03:20.639 prepare yourself mentally that your interests 01:03:20.639 --> 01:03:24.619 will keep changing and something that was your 01:03:24.619 --> 01:03:27.380 dream job might not be anymore after a couple 01:03:27.380 --> 01:03:31.940 of years. Yeah, just be prepared that you will 01:03:31.940 --> 01:03:36.300 go out there in search for something new and 01:03:36.300 --> 01:03:39.820 you will do that until you retire and maybe you 01:03:39.820 --> 01:03:43.940 don't want to retire. Hopefully for you who are 01:03:43.940 --> 01:03:47.150 listening to us, you'll find something that sparks 01:03:47.150 --> 01:03:51.989 joy and that drives you and stimulates you. So 01:03:51.989 --> 01:03:55.309 hopefully one of the following episodes, or this 01:03:55.309 --> 01:03:59.909 one, allows you to identify something that can 01:03:59.909 --> 01:04:03.769 align with your interests. And if it's not yet, 01:04:04.190 --> 01:04:06.730 looking forward to sharing more with you. Thank 01:04:06.730 --> 01:04:10.150 you so much, Emina. Thank you for all the pieces 01:04:10.150 --> 01:04:12.309 of advice that you shared and all the wisdom. 01:04:13.199 --> 01:04:15.559 Thank you. Thank you so much for inviting me. 01:04:16.559 --> 01:04:20.000 And yeah, I just hope that your listeners get 01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:23.679 the chance to hear all this advice. I needed 01:04:23.679 --> 01:04:27.800 years of, yeah, years of life experience to get 01:04:27.800 --> 01:04:33.519 to. And I hope they hear it much earlier on than 01:04:33.519 --> 01:04:37.300 I did. Thank you, Emina. Thank you everyone for 01:04:37.300 --> 01:04:40.639 listening. Please do reach out. On social media, 01:04:40.780 --> 01:04:43.500 if you want to learn more, if you have any questions, 01:04:43.699 --> 01:04:47.780 if you wish I had, ask different questions because 01:04:47.780 --> 01:04:50.199 I can ask them to the next person I'm interviewing.