And welcome to Rhythms of Progress, where we
explore how music and artists are the unsung
heroes of political movements and social advancement.
I'm your host, Shozett Silva. But you can call
me Lizzard. Yes, Lizzard. And with me is my faithful
co -host and now sound engineer, Stoney. Hello,
Stoney Boney. Oh, Stoney Boney in the house.
Today, Stoney and I are thrilled to welcome Elise
Ruggiero, another awesome person who more than
once helped me with my music theory homework
and always led with kindness. Thank you. I owe
you so much coffee. And guess what she's doing
now? Helping the world with something even bigger
by turning her love of music observation skills
and research into resonance and a cool thing
called uCue. Oh, it's nothing, just an interactive
musical interface that invites children with
autism spectrum disorder, ASD, to remix familiar
songs in real time. I know, right? It's incredible.
But it does more than play music. It hands them
the conductor's baton to explore emotional expressions,
sensory engagement and rhythm -led autonomy.
Huh, talk about music making a difference. Alright,
but let's back up a bit. ASD or Autism Spectrum
Disorder. What is that? Well, it's a neurodevelopmental
condition that shapes how a person communicates,
interacts socially and experiences the world.
I know, it's kind of a long word, so neurodevelopmental
condition is just a fancy way of saying the brain
works differently. It's not a glitch in the system
and people with ASD are not broken. Think of
it like this. Ever stay at a hotel or a friend's
house? Grab the TV remote to watch your favourite
show and you cannot even work the very basic
functions. Because it's different from the one
you have at home. Or use someone else's computer
or car. The buttons and settings are in a different
place, but everything works. What makes it difficult
for people with ASD is that the world is not
set up to accommodate all our diverse brains.
I know I said the D word. diverse. So, people
on the autism spectrum may struggle with social
cues, have trouble managing emotions, or struggle
with sleep disturbances. Alright, let's hang
out with our guest. But just a little FYI, this
interview was recorded over Zoom. Yeah, I don't
miss it either. So, let's get to it. And let's
ask her. A very serious question. Who are you
and what led you to this awesome project? So
my name is Elise Ruggiero. I am a senior viola
performance and psychology double major here
at the University of Delaware. I'm also in the
honors college and an accessibility scholar.
So really this project is such a niche crossover
of like, all of my little interests and my degree
and stuff. Essentially what led me to this project
is that I have a younger brother on the autism
spectrum. He's three years younger than me. And
growing up as a musician myself, I really made
a lot of observations and noticed a lot about
how he reacted to audio stimulus. And whether
that be like me practicing in the house, or,
you know, going out to eat at a restaurant and
him having, you know, a sensory overload, because
they were blasting the music. Or, you know, at
orchestra, symphony orchestra concerts, and he
would get upset. That was always something that
I had noticed. And been wanting to figure out
why. Why does he and other people on the autism
spectrum have such negative and adverse reactions
to certain sounds? What about sound causes that?
And so I had actually thought about doing something
like this originally for my Girl Scout Gold Award
back in high school, but I decided to go in a
different direction and then COVID happened,
so I never really got to dive into that too much.
But it was something on my mind that I wanted
to do in going to college. And in my freshman
year honors aural skills class, Dr. Stevens,
Dr. Daniel Stevens, who's now the interim director
of the University of Delaware School of Music.
At the time he was just our honors theory professor,
suggested doing some sort of community outreach
project with our musical knowledge, where we
would like, choose an organization as a class
and see how we can help them with our music.
And so I suggested Autism Delaware because this
has always been something that I was interested
in. And then the whole class got behind it and
that really skyrocketed the project. That's beautiful.
the power of music. Right. What has surprised
you the most doing this project? I think ultimately
what has really surprised me is just like obviously
autism spectrum disorder is on a spectrum so
everybody is different but by working with so
many individual people children and young adults
it's been so clear just how different everyone
is from each other. Like, obviously, we've discovered
like, some overlap and preferences, but at the
end of the day, like, everybody is just so different
and gravitates to different sounds, which I think
is really cool and really interesting. And in
the piece that you said, you said that people
gravitate more towards lower sounds. Is that
something that you noticed with your brother
when he would get upset in the concerts or at
restaurants? A bit, yeah. I never really noticed
him having a preference towards lower sounds,
but I definitely did notice him having an adverse
reaction to the higher sounds. So I'm a viola
performance major, but I did start on the violin
and Obviously, I would have violin recitals when
I was younger with other violin students studying
with my teacher at the time. And he wouldn't
be able to sit through those recitals just because
like, you know, the timbre and the sound of the
violin, it can be so bright sometimes and, you
know, very high pitched. And so that would always
upset him and he would have to step out of the
room. and it's similar with like symphony stuff
like when things are you know really really loud
he'll struggle with that same if you heard like
a pop song that had an element that was like
higher pitched or louder than the rest his reactions
would be more negative during those moments Alright,
we had a little Zoom grumblin chew up our audio,
so I'm going to re -ask the question. Um, Stoney?
Stoney? Please stop sharing catnip with a grumblin.
Finish the session. She's just so caring. Tell
me about the uCue. What is it? Yeah, absolutely.
So the uCue is a device that my honors oral skills
music class in our freshman year developed along
with the computer information and information
sciences department here. And basically, what
it is, is that it's a little box device. And
we as a music class wrote and arranged and produced
different versions of different nursery rhymes,
such as Row Row Row Your Boat, Wheels on the
Bus, Ansko Marching, Rain Rain Go Away, Twinkle
Twinkle. I cannot be the only person who did
not know one or two of those classics. No, I
was not living under a rock. As a child, I was
actually on an international meet and greet tour
introducing myself to a parade of foster families
and awkwardly asking, um, can I crash at your
place? So, here at a playground's top hits, the
kids would not stop singing while the parents
perfected their place of a smile. Well, row,
row, row your boat gently down the stream. Merrily,
merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.
That's great. Now we're going to twist them.
Are you ready? Twist, twist, twist your boat
gently down the stream. That is the version from
the Old Town School of Folk Music in Chicago.
Hello, my sweet home Chicago. Here is Anne's
Go Marching by Gracie's Corner. And the same
song by the Laurie Berkner band. Same song, different
moods. Wait, are we gushing into music therapy?
This next song is Rain Rain Go Away from Doggyland
by Snoop Dogg. That's right, Snoop Dogg. And
I remember when he called me and was so excited
about it, and I thought, cool title. Actually,
we've never met, but maybe one day. Can you imagine?
Snoop, Lizzard, Stoney. I think there's a record
there. And lastly we have Twinkle Twinkle Little
Star by Sara Bareilles and Big Bird. I heard
Elmo and Big Bird and all of my friends over
there got into politics. And I'm sorry that the
politicians were so rude. I think they missed
some of the lessons. They should listen to this
song and pick them up. songs like that. Because
we did reach out to the Autism Delaware organization
here and had families tell us like what songs
that their kids would want to hear, or what sounds
they seem to like. And so we use that information
to go about production and composition. So we
have three different melody layers, two different
harmony layers, three different additional melody
layers, different percussion tracks, different
bass tracks, and so there's a button that's paired
with each of those tracks. And so if you push
the button for each, it'll switch through like
what harmony layer you're hearing or what melody
layer you're hearing. And when making these,
we had sort of an idea in mind where we would
test for variables, so we would have a high pitched
melody, we would have a medium pitched melody,
and then a low pitched melody, and then a more
active rhythmic harmony versus more sustained
pedal tone harmony. So we do have those elements
in for testing, so that has been a really interesting
experience. Let's hear their version of Row Row
Row Your Boat. Fun! How did you get involved
with our technology department? Because music
often advances technology. And there's so much
overlap between technology and music. What I
remember, my freshman year spring, Dr. Stevens
had contacted Dr. Matthew Moriello, who is a
professor in the computer and information sciences
department. and he was really interested in our
project and he had made a little prototype of
the uCue and was like, yeah, like I can code all
of your arrangements like into this device and
he had showed it off at the very, very end of
my freshman year. I think it was the last day
I was allowed to be on campus. I like ran to
the music building to like see the device that
he made and our music being coded into the device.
And then we had other computer and information
sciences students join the team the following
year. We have Abhishek Karwankar, who is a PhD
student in the department. And he has been on
the project for about three years now, two to
three years. He has really done a lot of work
with coding the songs in, he had made an interactive
dashboard where we get like all of the data that
we collected from the children using our device.
And he even, a recent addition is a steering
wheel for the uCue, where if you turn it to the
right, the tempo gets faster. And if you turn
it to the left, the tempo gets slower for the
sounds. So that's a really exciting addition.
Hello, Dr. Stevens. And thank you for proving
that musicians don't just sit in practice rooms,
they actually do a lot of good for society. Fun
fact, the US arts and culture sector contributed
$1 .1 trillion to the US economy in 2022, supporting
4 .9 million jobs. Thank you, National Endowment
for the Arts and Bureau of Economic Analysis
2023. The intersections of autism research and
technology and music therapy, do you think they're
underfunded? So with this field, it's so niche
because the music therapy field is relatively
recent. If I'm remembering correctly, it was
around 1950, 1960ish when this was sort of established
as like a practice, like an official medical
practice. And so With that comes research, obviously
following that. And so one thing that I noticed
when obviously, A, applying to grad school programs,
because I want to continue this work beyond my
time here at UD, and B, looking at related works
while working on my research, because obviously,
like, you know, we have to look at the whole
field to sort of see what other people are doing.
And one thing we noticed is that there is very
limited knowledge and research out there because
it is such like a new research area, like it's
such a new area that people are starting to explore.
And I am really excited about the uCue because
I feel like it can really contribute to the field
that's already out there and hopefully inspire
more research to get done. Because you know,
it is new and every few months like when I'm
looking for something like one more new article
will be out and that's really exciting to see.
Have you gotten in touch with any neuropsychologist?
Besides this, are you kind of branching out into
other parts of psychology with music? So our
team, specifically Dr. Stevens and Dr. Mauriello
have talked to a couple professors in the psychology
department about our project. And, you know,
they're definitely interested. I think, you know,
a lot of them are more clinically based, rather
than like, you know, we're going to use this
device as like a therapeutic practice and like,
see how we can aid like the music therapy fields
already out there. But it's definitely something
that like, we really want to engage the psychology
department here at UD with just because it is
something like it already is an interdisciplinary
project. So, you know, why not bring in other
discipline? Like, why not involve another field?
And as a psychology major, you know, I'm seeing
a lot of valuable and I'm hearing a lot of valuable
information in my classes that I'm like oh like
I can contribute it contribute this knowledge
to the project so that's something that you know
I really want to push for for my final few months
here I think you can there's certainly there's
gotta be a way to push forward for it because
we use music to emotionally regulate all of us
do Welcome to when loss catch the beat. Turns
out, music and autism research aren't just changing
lives, they're literally changing loss. In the
US, autism went from an overlooked diagnosis
to front -page policy with the Combashing Autism
Act of 2006. That set the stage for the Autism
CAS Act, just renewed in 2024. dropping $2 billion
into research and services. Then we go to Ryan's
Law in South Carolina that forced insurance companies
to actually cover therapy for kids with autism.
Meanwhile, in New York, Jonathan's Law made sure
parents got told what's happening with their
autistic child in state care. Because apparently,
parents should know wasn't obvious enough to
write down until 2007. And in the UK, the Autism
Act of 2009 broke grounds as the first autism
-specified law on the books. And let's flip the
record to music therapy. Some states actually
police the title of music therapy, as they should.
In North Dakota and Nevada, you cannot just throw
music therapists on your business card, Uncle
Bob, even if you play the tambourine beautifully.
And in Illinois, Governor Pritzker signed a law
requiring music therapists to be licensed because
healing is serious business. So yeah, whether
it's autism or music therapy, the message is
clear. Music matters. These fields matter. And
lawmakers, they are transcribing the score. And
that is what we call rhythms of progress. Who
do you think should fund this technology and
this research should be public or private? Well,
the thing is, is that we've already, we do have
a generous amount of funding from different organizations,
like IDH, Maggie E. Newman fund from the pug
leases last year. So we have had like pretty
generous funding, like through schools and different
organizations. And so that has been really, really
beneficial for us. And because of their generosity,
we have been able to make such significant milestones
on our project. But I think in the long run,
this is something that is a tool for music therapy
and music therapists. So in terms of funding,
I don't, I'm not sure if it should be funded
by a public or private institution. I mean, I
think it's just, you know, as it's a tool used
for music therapy practices, like that's ultimately
up to, I guess, the team and music therapists.
And now it's time for my unrequited opinion.
Yes. The government should pay for autism and
music therapy research. Please use my taxes for
the best interests of society. Because music
therapy and autism research intertwines with
neuroscience, language development, and the arts.
I know that some politicians are allergic to
the arts, but try having your next convention
without a single song. Do you see people using
it in other fields to teach? Yeah, so we actually
have talked a little bit about this as a team.
Last year, we sort of talked about what if we
compose and produce songs that have a sort of
like educational lesson behind them. So we talked
about like making some sort of like counting
song where we would do like pop goes the weasel
and every time um we do like pop goes the weasel
like we would add more um time between that and
we would have the kids like count in that space.
We also talked about doing a variation of itsy
bitsy spider where we have the harmony and the
percussion layers doing different things and
different patterns of like two, four and eight
to sort of help with counting. And then we also
talked about using the device to teach turn taking
with kids. And so we actually conducted a study
at Marbrook Elementary last spring, early summer,
where we as a team went in and we assigned one
kid to work with the steering wheel, one kid
to work with the uCue, and one kid to sort of like...
direct what they wanted. And it's definitely,
you know, every kid struggles with turn -taking
and especially with a new device that's making
all these cool musical sounds. Oh yes, I heard
your thought. And it was, I know some adults
that can use a refresher on turn -taking. Wait,
are you smiling? Is that a smile on your face?
Aww, you look pretty even when you don't smile.
By the end of the session, you know, the kids
sort of settled into their roles. And so, yeah,
like this is a device that not only can be used
for music therapy, but can be used to teach counting
or turn taking and even other sort of skills
that we haven't thought of yet. So that's exciting
to me. I think it would also go into, it could
be used for people with different learning abilities,
such as ADHD. I could use that. Yeah, absolutely.
And, you know, for me, like, I'm 22 years old,
I'm just now sort of coming to the conclusion
after, you know, talking to some of my doctors
and doing some self reflection that I also have
ADHD, so this is something that is interesting
to me too, so. Yeah, I knew that about you. Did
you? No, no, I'm kidding. I think that I'm not.
I can kind of tell who has it. But first of all,
congratulations on knowing that there's freedom
that comes with knowing how you learn because
the educational system isn't always catered to.
towards people who learn differently. Now that
you know that you have ADHD, has it changed your
process for the uCue? Honestly, this is such like
a new thing for me, like coming to terms that
I, you know, do have this and like this is something
that like I have to understand about myself when
like doing my work and learning. that I haven't
really applied that knowledge to the uCue yet,
and I think that's something that can be extremely
valuable to look at. Like, how can the uCue not
only benefit people on the autism spectrum, but
how can it positively impact the neurodivergent
community as a whole? And I know that, you know,
sensory sensitivities, specifically audio sensory
sensitivities are not limited to people on the
autism spectrum. Like it's also common for people
with ADHD to have that and a bunch of other things
too. So that's something that, you know, I'm
definitely interested in diving into more in
the coming months. What does ADHD stand for?
Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Knowing
you have ADHD or anything else is like having
a manual about how your brain works. But it's
more for other people so they know how to help
you. So congratulations to Elise and to anyone
else out there who has a different way of learning.
We spend so much time getting to know all of
the cool things our phones do. Get to see how
you learn and how you memorise. Keep exploring
it. And have fun. And here, at Rhythms of Progress,
ADHD stands for Awesome Dreams, High Determination.
Oh, hold on. Moment. Stephanie just handed me
a note. And it says, enough talking, human. I
love you, but we need snacks. Meow. I listen
to my cat. I know my rule in life. We'll be right
back. Hey, do you believe autism comes in just
one flavour? Do you think it's a boy's only club?
Have you ever caught yourself saying, She can't
be autistic, she makes eye contact. She can't
be autistic, she's too social. If so, you may
be suffering from outdated diagnosis disorder.
also known as ODD, odd. A chronic condition,
treatable with just a bit of knowledge. Unlike
the internet comment sections, actual research
shows autism is not limited to boys, robots,
or quirky TV detectives. Possible side effects
of learning may include realizing girls, women,
and non -binary folks exist on the spectrum.
Unexpected empathy attacks that brightens your
weekend. Random acts of kindness towards people
you misjudged. In clinical trials, participants
reported the corners of their mouths lifting
when they learned something new. A sudden urge
to hand kids a uCue so they can make their own
music. And puffiness around their eyeballs after
a mysterious saltwater leakage from laughing
too much. The worst side effect that has been
reported is discovering your stereotypes were
wrong all along. It's time to retire outdated
myths and start learning. This message is brought
to you by the Society of Noticing Girls on the
Spectrum and Sony, reminding you, autism doesn't
have a gender bias, but diagnosis patterns often
do. If you were a musical note, which would you
be? It's a bit of fun. Exactly, exactly. Are
you serious? Are you talking rhythm? well let's
start pitch first okay well since my name is
Elise it starts with an E so probably an E where
I'm a violist so I'm gonna say three um because
our So for the string players out there, the
viola's C string is something that really distinguishes
it from the violin. And so we have our open C
string and then we have D, E, F. And so that
E, I would say, that is what I identify with.
What has been your favorite thing about working
under uCue? I honestly think it's just... how much
I have learned with different disciplines. So
working with the computer and information sciences
department, that is something that I would never
do otherwise. Obviously the school of music and
the computer and information sciences department
don't overlap for a lot of things. They don't
cross paths on a regular basis. But they do in
so many ways. They do. They do. But I feel like
they're like, obviously, there's not a lot of
projects going on here that brings these students
together. Like, there's so many overlaps, but
that's not something that, you know, is really
common. So I'm really enjoying that I'm enjoying
expanding my knowledge on composition and production,
because that's also something that, you know,
I didn't have. any familiarity with before coming
here. And then I think even analyzing the graphs
and analyzing the data and coming to conclusions
as to what they mean and what these preferences
are that has been really interesting to me too.
Again, like I didn't think I was really like
an analytical graph kind of person. But then
when it's regarding our study in this, I'm like,
oh, this means that and this is really cool for
me to see. So it's been so cool. Do you think
your project's finding could impact global approaches
to autism music therapy? I think absolutely,
because we're really looking for what specific
sounds Cause a positive reaction and what specific
sounds cause a negative reaction and there's
really not a lot of research out there on that
Like off the top of my head. I can only think
of about two Empirical articles that I've looked
at that really talk about that So the goal of
this project is to really expand and figure out
what that is and obviously there's gonna be difference
in it differences across different people for
sure. But we're trying to see like, is there
anything or are there any constants? In pinpointing
those constants, I think will absolutely change
how different musical operations, you know, go
about creating music. for people with ASD or
how music therapists can cater the session to
their patient because they know they know what
sounds to play more. I think it's going to be
different culturally because of the different
sounds and scales so I think that it's really
a project that will have more of an impact than
you think. Here are people with ASD who changed
the world. PhD, regarded as the father of theoretical
computer science and artificial intelligence.
Temple Grandin is renowned for her groundbreaking
work in animal science and animal welfare. Michelle
Dawson is a prominent figure in autism research.
She is known for challenging conventional perspectives
on cognition and neurodevelopment. Albert Einstein,
who is widely believed to have been on the autism
spectrum, He revolutionized our understanding
of the cosmos with his groundbreaking theories
on relativity and gravity. If you believe you
have autism spectrum disorder, please see a professional.
Some links are in the episode notes. What can
the public do or the educational system do to
prepare teachers to help people with ASD? Yeah,
so I know obviously for education degrees, there's
a lot of schools that have concentrations for
special education, and I have a lot of friends
that are specializing or majoring in special
education. But honestly, at the end of the day,
I think it's important for everybody to have
that knowledge of how to go about being the best
teacher, the best role model they can be for
somebody who is neurodivergent or has a learning
disability. And it shouldn't be limited just
to people who have that concentration in disability
studies or special education. I think it's something
that, you know, everybody who is, you know, wants
to be an educator someday should take you know,
a few classes or have that concentration. This
has been wonderful. Thank you for this. Thanks
for doing this. And what is Elise up to now?
She has graduated from the University of Delaware.
She will begin her master's degree in musicology
at Florida State University. Congratulations
to you and your entire team. We want to celebrate
and thank anyone who worked on the uCue by knocking
this glass of water off the counter. Do it, Tony.
Yeah! And into a plant. We're not wasteful. It
is full circle here. This episode was produced,
recorded and mixed by Shozzett Silva. Parody
commercial and song for it are by them as well.
Special thanks to James Kelly and Chris Milanowski
for volunteering the wonderful voices. Thank
you to all of you for tuning in. You can help
us by following us on Instagram and watching
me make a lot of mistakes. Hopefully, they'll
bring a smile to your face. You can also give
us five stars if you like it. And if you really
hate it, you can also give us five stars. I hated
five stars. Share it as much as you like, listen
to it on repeat and hang out with my international
fluctuating accent. And thank you to 91 .3 WVUD,
the voice of the University of Delaware, where
parts of this episode were recorded. Thank you
to my accidental mentors Dave McKinsey and Steve
Karamak. Until next time, honor your rhythm.