WEBVTT 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:04.599 Welcome to Rhythms of Progress, where we explore 00:00:04.599 --> 00:00:07.580 how music and artists are the unsung heroes of 00:00:07.580 --> 00:00:10.919 political movements and social advancement. I'm 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.900 your host, Shozzett Silva, but you can call me 00:00:13.900 --> 00:00:19.260 Lizzard. Yes, like the reptile. Today we're celebrating 00:00:19.260 --> 00:00:21.739 a New York -based playwright and screenwriter 00:00:21.739 --> 00:00:24.739 who makes you smirk, laugh and question your 00:00:24.739 --> 00:00:28.059 morality while keeping you entertained. Not an 00:00:28.059 --> 00:00:31.940 easy task. The one and only Chisa Hutchinson. 00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:36.280 This word ninja injects social and cultural progress 00:00:36.280 --> 00:00:39.719 into her writing by amplifying marginalized people 00:00:39.719 --> 00:00:42.700 and tackling pressing political issues of our 00:00:42.700 --> 00:00:46.700 time. Her latest play American follows a man 00:00:46.700 --> 00:00:49.600 who joins a white supremacy group to secure a 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:53.020 bright future for his son. However, he must take 00:00:53.020 --> 00:00:56.380 an ancestry test to prove his white lineage. 00:00:56.840 --> 00:01:01.049 The results are more of an... Oops, then. Elite. 00:01:02.670 --> 00:01:07.230 Science. Ruining people's dreams. It's like signing 00:01:07.230 --> 00:01:10.489 up for a vegan baking class and discovering that 00:01:10.489 --> 00:01:13.329 I'm allergic to gluten. It was a bit awkward. 00:01:14.189 --> 00:01:17.590 How will he navigate this situation? What would 00:01:17.590 --> 00:01:22.209 you do in his place? What would I do? I would 00:01:22.209 --> 00:01:25.090 probably show up in a t -shirt that says, Make 00:01:25.090 --> 00:01:28.969 white supremacy inclusive. You can experience 00:01:28.969 --> 00:01:32.790 her work from March 1st to April 13th, 2025 at 00:01:32.790 --> 00:01:36.689 59 East 59 Theatres. The play is directed by 00:01:36.689 --> 00:01:40.129 Jade King Carroll. Now in New York, check out 00:01:40.129 --> 00:01:42.430 her work on The Stars Network, where she was 00:01:42.430 --> 00:01:45.370 a staff writer for Three Women, a TV series. 00:01:45.689 --> 00:01:48.890 Check out her plays at your local library, listen 00:01:48.890 --> 00:01:51.890 to her audio plays, or find her films and shows 00:01:51.890 --> 00:01:55.540 on your preferred streaming service. Just a little 00:01:55.540 --> 00:01:58.939 FYI, this episode was recorded right after the 00:01:58.939 --> 00:02:02.239 election and over Zoom, so the sound might be 00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:07.659 dynamic. So good to see you. How are you? Hanging 00:02:07.659 --> 00:02:10.319 in. And how is Smitty feeling about everything? 00:02:10.960 --> 00:02:13.879 Smitty's her dog. Oh, he doesn't know what's 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:16.780 coming, poor thing. He's their little ray of 00:02:16.780 --> 00:02:20.039 sunshine. He's so funny. Like, the other day 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:23.680 I was just starting to... I don't know, process 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:27.240 the election and all of its implications and 00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:31.060 was just feeling so overwhelmed at all the things 00:02:31.060 --> 00:02:35.020 that are going to need to change in our lives 00:02:35.020 --> 00:02:38.419 in order for us to sort of cope with that. And 00:02:38.419 --> 00:02:41.520 as I went to reach for some yogurt to go make 00:02:41.520 --> 00:02:45.560 a smoothie, the yogurt fell out of the refrigerator 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:50.949 and cracked onto the floor. The whole big tub 00:02:50.949 --> 00:02:54.590 of yogurt like just was just all over the floor. 00:02:54.650 --> 00:02:57.530 Right. And I'm standing there just feeling like, 00:02:57.530 --> 00:03:01.030 of course, of course. And it was such a small 00:03:01.030 --> 00:03:04.710 little, you know, irritation. But given everything 00:03:04.710 --> 00:03:06.750 else that had been happening that week, it just 00:03:06.750 --> 00:03:09.229 felt like straw that broke a camel's back situation. 00:03:09.909 --> 00:03:13.520 And I'm standing there like, OK, how do I? What's 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:15.479 the most effective way to clean this up? This 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:17.840 is going to take an hour to do this because it's 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:19.939 like under the fridge. Now it's like everywhere. 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:25.439 And then along comes Smitty and starts like licking 00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:29.960 up yogurt as fast as he can. And it was just 00:03:29.960 --> 00:03:34.620 such a sweet little reminder of like, oh, right. 00:03:34.819 --> 00:03:38.379 Help can come from like the most unexpected of 00:03:38.379 --> 00:03:41.439 places and you don't have to do everything alone. 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:47.080 Spilling anything is normally an annoying inconvenience. 00:03:47.219 --> 00:03:50.599 But this time it seems personal. Even the yogurt 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:54.120 is trying to escape the chaos. And it did, into 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:57.400 the dog's belly. And what would Smitty say about 00:03:57.400 --> 00:04:00.400 politics? Yeah, we haven't really had the chance 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:05.120 to discuss yet. But I'm sure he's got some solid 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:09.680 ideas. I would read that book. Oh gosh, politics 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:12.620 according to Smitty. And we know congratulations 00:04:12.620 --> 00:04:15.939 are in order. So congratulations on your success. 00:04:16.579 --> 00:04:20.399 Yeah, I'm pretty happy with it. So how do you 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:22.259 see your role as a writer in today's political 00:04:22.259 --> 00:04:28.420 climate? You know, I really thought I had a handle 00:04:28.420 --> 00:04:32.100 on the answer to this question and like variations 00:04:32.100 --> 00:04:36.040 of this question, literally until last week. 00:04:36.220 --> 00:04:41.759 And now I really just, I don't know. Everything 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:44.779 is so up in the air right now that, of course, 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:49.420 you have to sort of re -prioritize everything 00:04:49.420 --> 00:04:55.079 and question all your life choices. But here's 00:04:55.079 --> 00:04:57.500 the thing. I'm really not particularly good at 00:04:57.500 --> 00:04:59.540 anything else, so I really kind of have to make 00:04:59.540 --> 00:05:02.379 this writing thing work however I can. And it 00:05:02.379 --> 00:05:07.620 just so happens that I, you know, have certain 00:05:07.620 --> 00:05:14.050 political beliefs. That I work into my scripts, 00:05:14.250 --> 00:05:17.449 into my plays, into my screenplays. And I've 00:05:17.449 --> 00:05:19.810 been lucky enough to work with companies and 00:05:19.810 --> 00:05:23.870 organizations that their values are aligned with 00:05:23.870 --> 00:05:28.430 mine. I'm not quite sure what's going to happen 00:05:28.430 --> 00:05:36.589 now. I'm really not sure what the market for... 00:05:37.950 --> 00:05:43.370 stories written by Black women about, you know, 00:05:43.389 --> 00:05:48.750 people of color and women protagonists and queer 00:05:48.750 --> 00:05:54.370 folks. Like, I'm really just not sure what the 00:05:54.370 --> 00:05:56.589 landscape is going to look like in a while, at 00:05:56.589 --> 00:06:00.490 least here in the States. That's not going to 00:06:00.490 --> 00:06:05.379 stop me from sending my work out. or like making 00:06:05.379 --> 00:06:09.360 my pitches wherever, I just think it's going 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:15.259 to become even more difficult to sort of get 00:06:15.259 --> 00:06:18.800 those narratives where they need to be. The election 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:22.100 was not long ago, and we've seen the diluting 00:06:22.100 --> 00:06:25.839 of narratives and rights. So like right now, 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:31.779 I have a play called American, which is about 00:06:31.779 --> 00:06:36.079 this guy, Jeff. he's just had a baby and he wants 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:38.500 to plug into his community so he can sort of 00:06:38.500 --> 00:06:40.899 wrangle some benefits for his family right and 00:06:40.899 --> 00:06:45.540 so um to do that in his tiny tiny maryland town 00:06:45.540 --> 00:06:48.060 he decides to join a white supremacist group 00:06:48.060 --> 00:06:51.480 because you know they take care of each other 00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:55.480 and uh as part of his initiation he has to take 00:06:55.480 --> 00:07:00.480 a dna test like an ancestry test and get some 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:03.180 inconvenient results and sort of has to deal 00:07:03.180 --> 00:07:07.220 with the consequences of that right so obviously 00:07:07.220 --> 00:07:11.660 this is an exploration of i mean obviously like 00:07:11.660 --> 00:07:14.639 racial polygamy you know but just in general 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:19.339 the the idea of us and them and what happens 00:07:19.339 --> 00:07:23.160 when the line between those groups gets blurry 00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:26.160 yeah and to just sort of get people thinking 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:32.100 about how Their position in life could be very 00:07:32.100 --> 00:07:34.459 different depending on, oh, I don't know who 00:07:34.459 --> 00:07:37.000 gets elected or, you know, who moves in next 00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:42.000 door or a DNA test, right? Like, you just never 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:45.459 know. You never know. And I don't know, I'm just 00:07:45.459 --> 00:07:48.180 trying to foster some empathy that way. It was 00:07:48.180 --> 00:07:51.339 sort of my way to try to understand people who 00:07:51.339 --> 00:07:54.920 are not like me or people who might hate people 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:58.970 like me without even knowing any of us. I was 00:07:58.970 --> 00:08:01.209 really, really, really, really trying hard to 00:08:01.209 --> 00:08:04.490 foster empathy within myself and others. It's 00:08:04.490 --> 00:08:07.750 got a production in New York in the spring. Hopefully 00:08:07.750 --> 00:08:11.509 it'll land how it needs to. I doubt very much 00:08:11.509 --> 00:08:14.850 that that play will get done in the next four 00:08:14.850 --> 00:08:19.290 years. Subsequent productions, that's the idea. 00:08:19.750 --> 00:08:21.970 You don't just stop after the one production. 00:08:23.029 --> 00:08:27.360 Ideally, it gets done all over the globe. Yeah, 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:30.579 I don't, I'm just not sure. Ooh, you know who'd 00:08:30.579 --> 00:08:34.500 fund the arts? Dogs. They get the hustle. They 00:08:34.500 --> 00:08:37.919 know that much like cats, artists are undervalued, 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:42.419 but secretly running the show. Fun fact, artists 00:08:42.419 --> 00:08:46.340 contribute about $877 billion to the U .S. economy. 00:08:46.899 --> 00:08:50.299 Thanks, U .S. Bureau of Economic Analysis. Meanwhile, 00:08:50.379 --> 00:08:54.559 politicians love artists for political campaign 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:58.720 arts. Writers, videographers, musicians, fashion, 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:02.220 graphic and lighting designers. Ooh, and don't 00:09:02.220 --> 00:09:07.720 forget the makeup. The whole show. But mention 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:10.220 finding the arts, and suddenly they're allergic. 00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:13.919 Oh no, you're sprinkling too many facts and brilliance. 00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:17.720 Achoo! But in all seriousness, when you go to 00:09:17.720 --> 00:09:20.440 the theatre or cinema, you are immersed in diverse 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:24.149 perspectives. Storytelling humanizes social issues 00:09:24.149 --> 00:09:28.370 and encourages dialogue and social change. What 00:09:28.370 --> 00:09:30.490 are some of the challenges that you've overcome 00:09:30.490 --> 00:09:35.649 as a writer? Well, still overcoming, so I'm not 00:09:35.649 --> 00:09:40.850 sure that like have overcome is a thing. But 00:09:40.850 --> 00:09:44.889 I think for me, marketing is a really difficult 00:09:44.889 --> 00:09:49.440 thing or a really tricky thing. Oh, well, the 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:55.299 one indie movie that I made was, it was rough 00:09:55.299 --> 00:10:02.220 because the subject is very, it's heavy and it's, 00:10:02.220 --> 00:10:04.980 you know, it's all about, you know, exploitation 00:10:04.980 --> 00:10:07.500 and how, you know, there's a white documentary 00:10:07.500 --> 00:10:11.519 filmmaker in it who sort of exploits young Black 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:16.309 people. in the film and that documentary filmmaker 00:10:16.309 --> 00:10:20.929 was played by Jason Biggs who you know is kind 00:10:20.929 --> 00:10:25.789 of like America's comedic sweetheart so anyone 00:10:25.789 --> 00:10:30.610 who's like tuning in to a movie starring Jason 00:10:30.610 --> 00:10:35.070 Biggs expecting you know American Pie is going 00:10:35.070 --> 00:10:40.350 to be sorely disappointed but they are also probably 00:10:40.350 --> 00:10:43.820 the people that I would want watch the film the 00:10:43.820 --> 00:10:46.440 most you know in the hopes that it would land 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:50.399 um similarly oh when this very play American 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:53.279 got done in Houston a little while ago when they 00:10:53.279 --> 00:10:56.179 were marketing it there was a very conservative 00:10:56.179 --> 00:11:00.299 outlet that they said so hey they want to do 00:11:00.299 --> 00:11:03.899 they want to do an interview with you and I was 00:11:03.899 --> 00:11:08.340 like oh okay cool yeah and we think it should 00:11:08.340 --> 00:11:13.480 be about how there's a live dog in the play and 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:16.200 for you to talk about what it's like to work 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:19.220 with a live dog in the theater. And at first 00:11:19.220 --> 00:11:23.340 I was like, what? Like, that's, that's not at 00:11:23.340 --> 00:11:25.899 all. Like what the play is about. And then I 00:11:25.899 --> 00:11:27.639 thought of, then I said, oh no, that's actually, 00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:31.700 that's actually brilliant because it's. exactly 00:11:31.700 --> 00:11:33.779 the thing that's going to get you know I'm not 00:11:33.779 --> 00:11:36.419 going to get the people that I really really 00:11:36.419 --> 00:11:38.799 want to target with my work like I'm not going 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:40.559 to get their butts in the seats I'm not going 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:45.820 to get them you know to to rent my movie or whatever 00:11:45.820 --> 00:11:51.360 if it is oh a black lady movie so I think I really 00:11:51.360 --> 00:11:54.379 do think marketing is like such a huge thing 00:11:54.379 --> 00:11:57.639 that I'm constantly having to figure out and 00:11:58.269 --> 00:12:00.909 Yeah, it's an obstacle because I don't really 00:12:00.909 --> 00:12:04.490 quite know how. Looking the way I do and being 00:12:04.490 --> 00:12:07.669 in this body, right, I don't really know how 00:12:07.669 --> 00:12:11.269 to appeal to the people that I'm trying to appeal 00:12:11.269 --> 00:12:16.250 to. Like, to lure them out of their, like, white, 00:12:16.370 --> 00:12:20.990 straight, cis male hidey holes. Hmm. Sounds like 00:12:20.990 --> 00:12:24.950 it's time for my unrequited opinion. First, what 00:12:24.950 --> 00:12:28.139 a great choice to cast Jason. It shows your deep 00:12:28.139 --> 00:12:30.820 understanding of audience perception and you 00:12:30.820 --> 00:12:34.539 challenging them and typecasting. Because Jason 00:12:34.539 --> 00:12:37.399 is typecast, people expect to see him in something 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:41.299 witty or funny. But by them watching the subject, 00:12:41.620 --> 00:12:44.440 they are now privileged to his artistic range. 00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:47.679 What was the audience's response to his casting? 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:51.159 Oh, no, it's what you would have expected. There 00:12:51.159 --> 00:12:55.350 were a lot of angry white guys, sort of. you 00:12:55.350 --> 00:12:59.429 know, this isn't funny. We're like, this is just, 00:12:59.429 --> 00:13:02.850 this is just woke nonsense. Like, what is this? 00:13:02.990 --> 00:13:06.909 You know? And it's discouraging to read those 00:13:06.909 --> 00:13:10.669 because I'm like, oh, you're like exactly who 00:13:10.669 --> 00:13:14.850 I was. And I was really hoping, but I still harbor 00:13:14.850 --> 00:13:19.389 a quiet hope that maybe, you know, now that they've 00:13:19.389 --> 00:13:21.809 seen it, they've subjected themselves to it, 00:13:21.830 --> 00:13:24.879 that it's sort of something stuck. You know, 00:13:24.899 --> 00:13:30.799 and that maybe it, I don't know, that they've 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:37.740 been sort of infected with my woke bug. By the 00:13:37.740 --> 00:13:41.159 way, the word woke just means haven't been awake. 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:44.940 But in this instance, it means being aware. And 00:13:44.940 --> 00:13:47.080 why would a person not want someone else to be 00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:51.600 aware? What would they want to do to them? All 00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:55.230 right, let's make it easy. Follow me to Fingerpaint 00:13:55.230 --> 00:14:02.190 Politics. Yesterday, we were sitting in Ms. Lizard's 00:14:02.190 --> 00:14:06.389 art class and she put a big box of crayons in 00:14:06.389 --> 00:14:10.529 the middle. So many colors. And one kid, his 00:14:10.529 --> 00:14:15.710 name is... We're not saying names. Takes the 00:14:15.710 --> 00:14:19.149 black, brown, and glittery crayons and swoosh, 00:14:19.169 --> 00:14:23.600 just throws them in the trash. Then Jesus stands 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:29.000 up like a superhero and says, Hey, we need all 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:32.620 the colors to make the best picture. And the 00:14:32.620 --> 00:14:37.460 crayons, the actual crayons, wiggle onto the 00:14:37.460 --> 00:14:41.419 edge of the trash can and say, Hey, we want the 00:14:41.419 --> 00:14:46.200 color too. And everyone agrees, except for that 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:51.000 kid. But I think he... learned it from his parents 00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:54.960 because they're always fighting about stuff so 00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:58.720 woke just means when you see that things are 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:03.600 not fair and you want to fix it but grown -ups 00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:07.879 i think they forget because if you ask different 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:12.259 grown -ups one will say Woke is being the superhero 00:15:12.259 --> 00:15:16.220 of fairness. And another will say, Woke is the 00:15:16.220 --> 00:15:18.899 reason Uncle Bob won't shut up at Thanksgiving 00:15:18.899 --> 00:15:26.299 dinner. My guest today is New York -based screenwriter 00:15:26.299 --> 00:15:29.240 and playwright, Cecil Hutchinson, who also teaches 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:34.299 at the University of Delaware. From then to now, 00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:37.340 have you seen a shift in the way media has changed 00:15:37.340 --> 00:15:40.570 with representation? I will say that by the time 00:15:40.570 --> 00:15:46.169 I notice a trend, it's already passed. You know 00:15:46.169 --> 00:15:51.289 what I mean? So there was a hot minute when everybody 00:15:51.289 --> 00:15:54.429 wanted, oh, a story with a female protagonist, 00:15:54.710 --> 00:15:57.230 right? And like, oh yeah, a really proactive 00:15:57.230 --> 00:16:00.690 female protagonist. And oh, well, that show that's 00:16:00.690 --> 00:16:03.909 on, Three Women, that's on, it's on Starz now, 00:16:04.009 --> 00:16:08.789 but we originally wrote it for Showtime. Over 00:16:08.789 --> 00:16:14.610 the course of us developing the series and, you 00:16:14.610 --> 00:16:18.529 know, writing the series, they filmed the entire 00:16:18.529 --> 00:16:21.669 first season of the series, right? And this is, 00:16:21.730 --> 00:16:24.470 you know, it's based on that book that's by Lisa 00:16:24.470 --> 00:16:28.970 Tadeo. And it's about three women whose, we'll 00:16:28.970 --> 00:16:33.590 say, whose libidos get them into trouble or who, 00:16:33.750 --> 00:16:38.679 you know, just have all kinds of problems. in 00:16:38.679 --> 00:16:42.620 their romances, which sounds really, I don't 00:16:42.620 --> 00:16:45.720 know that I would have read the book if someone 00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:49.519 had told me that. And it's just sort of about 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:53.899 desire and like how women's desire is often overlooked 00:16:53.899 --> 00:16:56.980 or often, you know, characterized as problematic 00:16:56.980 --> 00:17:01.559 or, you know. So here we are creating a series 00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:04.819 about that with Showtime when in comes the new 00:17:04.819 --> 00:17:09.119 head at Showtime. With a new mandate that's like, 00:17:09.259 --> 00:17:12.000 no, no, no, we're going back to everything that 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:15.619 was like hyper masculine, testosterone driven, 00:17:15.940 --> 00:17:20.019 Ray Donovan type stuff. You know, we need like 00:17:20.019 --> 00:17:23.740 masculine stuff. We need manly man stuff. And 00:17:23.740 --> 00:17:27.519 so it was a series called Three Women, you know, 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:31.819 about like women's desires and how they play 00:17:31.819 --> 00:17:35.519 out in their lives. It doesn't fit the bill anymore, 00:17:35.799 --> 00:17:39.779 right? If you can devour violence, true crime 00:17:39.779 --> 00:17:43.279 and horror, but get squeamish about female sexuality 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:47.039 or the intricacies of your relationships, some 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:49.819 may see it as a red flag, but I think it's actually 00:17:49.819 --> 00:17:53.279 an opportunity to explore resources, get support 00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:56.900 that does work and, you know, it would be funny 00:17:56.900 --> 00:17:59.559 if we had the same therapist, but I guess we'll 00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:02.680 never know. Anyway, you deserve it. Besides, 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:05.119 the world has enough emotionally constipated 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:08.869 people. And here are some examples of what art 00:18:08.869 --> 00:18:12.089 has done for society. The movie Philadelphia 00:18:12.089 --> 00:18:15.589 shifted public perceptions around HIV and AIDS. 00:18:16.210 --> 00:18:19.670 Bambi, yes, that cute little movie, sparked a 00:18:19.670 --> 00:18:22.450 national conversation around hunting, wildlife, 00:18:22.950 --> 00:18:26.490 animal rights, and empathy. The writer's strike 00:18:26.490 --> 00:18:29.009 brought streaming platforms to its knees and 00:18:29.009 --> 00:18:31.829 to negotiate. It exposed corporate dependence 00:18:31.829 --> 00:18:35.009 on creative labor and the real cost of underestimating 00:18:35.009 --> 00:18:37.650 it. and united multiple unions in solidarity, 00:18:37.970 --> 00:18:43.690 showing collective power. So here was this company 00:18:43.690 --> 00:18:46.930 that we were working for, you know, who was all 00:18:46.930 --> 00:18:50.609 rah -rah, you know, feminism, yeah, women protagonists, 00:18:50.609 --> 00:18:53.390 and the future is female, right? And then literally, 00:18:53.569 --> 00:18:56.430 over the course of us creating the show, the 00:18:56.430 --> 00:19:01.599 mandate changed, the trend changed, right? So 00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:03.819 that's another thing, I guess. It's just really 00:19:03.819 --> 00:19:07.940 hard keeping up with what's hot on the representation 00:19:07.940 --> 00:19:11.599 circuit. But I also take hope in that because 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:13.539 at some point, everything old is going to be 00:19:13.539 --> 00:19:18.180 new again. It's cyclical, you know, and I don't 00:19:18.180 --> 00:19:20.420 know. I just hope that it cycles enough in my 00:19:20.420 --> 00:19:23.460 lifetime that I can keep making a living doing 00:19:23.460 --> 00:19:27.180 what I love. You will. I'm not worried about 00:19:27.180 --> 00:19:32.859 you. That makes one of us. Oh my goodness, you 00:19:32.859 --> 00:19:35.819 caught me at like the most pessimistic moment 00:19:35.819 --> 00:19:40.259 of perhaps my life. You mean your humanity? Mm 00:19:40.259 --> 00:19:43.839 -hmm. So what can people in the industry do to 00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:50.660 support you? Honestly, I really can't ask. I 00:19:50.660 --> 00:19:55.259 can't ask producers, casting directors or whatever 00:19:55.259 --> 00:20:02.039 to, because they got to eat too. Right. I can't, 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:05.099 you know, be like, well, tell them that if they're 00:20:05.099 --> 00:20:07.599 not going to do it this way, then, you know, 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:11.660 you're not going to do it. Like you quit or whatever. 00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:14.420 Like that's not that's unrealistic and it's unfair. 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:20.940 But I do appreciate when casting directors understand 00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:26.079 the assignment as far as I, you know. I do appreciate 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:32.089 when a producer. says, well, if they're not going 00:20:32.089 --> 00:20:33.970 to let you do it this way and you don't want 00:20:33.970 --> 00:20:36.430 to do it this way, then they don't want this 00:20:36.430 --> 00:20:41.509 project. And plus, let's work on something else 00:20:41.509 --> 00:20:46.150 together. All right. So don't just take the opportunity 00:20:46.150 --> 00:20:48.849 away, but like maybe offer another one, which 00:20:48.849 --> 00:20:51.829 is like actually what's happening right now with 00:20:51.829 --> 00:20:54.869 the thing. Again, realistically, I don't expect 00:20:54.869 --> 00:20:56.670 other people to like give up their opportunities 00:20:56.670 --> 00:21:02.069 for my. values for me right but if you are like 00:21:02.069 --> 00:21:04.630 committed to being an ally right then you will 00:21:04.630 --> 00:21:07.809 find other opportunities for us to work together 00:21:07.809 --> 00:21:12.269 you will find a workaround you will find you 00:21:12.269 --> 00:21:15.130 will do the legwork that it requires to find 00:21:15.130 --> 00:21:19.309 that like queer black woman that I need in that 00:21:19.309 --> 00:21:23.930 role you know what I mean like and no the queer 00:21:23.930 --> 00:21:28.390 Jewish woman is not going to Isn't that a good 00:21:28.390 --> 00:21:32.950 substitution in this particular role? No, that's 00:21:32.950 --> 00:21:40.130 another script. Do you ever think about how much 00:21:40.130 --> 00:21:42.730 you've done as a writer? How much your producers 00:21:42.730 --> 00:21:45.190 and casting directors have done for the way that 00:21:45.190 --> 00:21:48.069 others experience the world? And this question 00:21:48.069 --> 00:21:50.690 is unfair because it puts all the responsibility 00:21:50.690 --> 00:21:54.049 on artists and creatives. I don't really have 00:21:54.049 --> 00:21:57.240 time for that. Because I'm always sort of like 00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:01.140 moving on to the next thing. Or someone will 00:22:01.140 --> 00:22:03.859 point out like, oh, yeah, it was a great play. 00:22:04.380 --> 00:22:08.680 Oh, but it was missing this. Or like, here's 00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:12.740 how I feel like it failed me as like a Black 00:22:12.740 --> 00:22:14.799 member of your audience. Because I felt like 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:16.400 you were writing toward white people. And I'm 00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:19.200 like, all right, next play is going to be specifically 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:23.480 for you. You know what I mean? It's kind of exhausting. 00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:29.579 But it also, like, assures that, like, or insures, 00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:32.559 I mean to say, like, it also ensures that, like, 00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:36.619 the work will never be done. If I were just sort 00:22:36.619 --> 00:22:38.839 of constantly, like, stopping and looking back 00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:41.880 and being like, oh, look at what all the people 00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:44.799 I've represented and what, you know, I just, 00:22:44.859 --> 00:22:49.079 it's terrible to have this kind of OCD of, like, 00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:51.059 well, let me just fixate on these failures and 00:22:51.059 --> 00:22:55.710 try to make it better next time. But yeah, I 00:22:55.710 --> 00:22:58.190 don't know. It keeps me going. It's fuel. Complacency 00:22:58.190 --> 00:23:01.750 is not good fuel. It doesn't propel you anywhere. 00:23:02.309 --> 00:23:04.250 And what would Smitty say about your writing? 00:23:04.930 --> 00:23:09.809 I think Smitty enjoys my writing. He's in here 00:23:09.809 --> 00:23:11.970 with me usually when I'm writing and having to 00:23:11.970 --> 00:23:15.089 read scenes out loud. So he gets to hear it in 00:23:15.089 --> 00:23:19.069 its raw form. And every now and then I get a 00:23:19.069 --> 00:23:22.049 glint. I get a, all right, yeah, you're doing 00:23:22.049 --> 00:23:27.230 okay. Okay, provocative scene. You're taking 00:23:27.230 --> 00:23:29.230 him for a walk. He sees one of your characters. 00:23:29.970 --> 00:23:34.089 Which one will he pee on? Oh, my goodness. Who 00:23:34.089 --> 00:23:36.670 would he? I mean, I guess he would probably pee 00:23:36.670 --> 00:23:42.349 on. Oh, oh, no. He would pee on. Okay, so in 00:23:42.349 --> 00:23:46.150 Three Women, there is a character who's actually 00:23:46.150 --> 00:23:50.829 based on an actual person, Aaron Canodal. He. 00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:56.880 is the teacher who essentially, like, molests 00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:01.380 the student of his, right? Smitty would definitely 00:24:01.380 --> 00:24:05.299 pee on that guy. Smitty the Advocate. If a dog 00:24:05.299 --> 00:24:07.980 can sniff out bad characters, what's our excuse? 00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:12.140 Yeah, he's a good little dude. He's going to 00:24:12.140 --> 00:24:15.160 get a biscuit later. Is there anything else you'd 00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:18.740 like to leave us with? Three Women on Stars is 00:24:18.740 --> 00:24:22.710 the TV show. The subject, the indie movie that 00:24:22.710 --> 00:24:25.509 I made with Jason Biggs in it is on most streaming 00:24:25.509 --> 00:24:33.809 platforms. American is happening in March at 00:24:33.809 --> 00:24:39.829 59E59 in New York City. And I just thank the 00:24:39.829 --> 00:24:43.529 people for whom it like would never even occur 00:24:43.529 --> 00:24:47.369 to them to like leave this country right now. 00:24:48.299 --> 00:24:50.640 I just want to thank the people who are like, 00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:52.559 no, I'm going to stay and fight. I'm going to 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:56.220 stay and like, especially producers who are like, 00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:58.680 this changes nothing for me. And I'm still going 00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:01.720 to try to like, you know, make the movies that 00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:04.400 I want to make, create the shows that I want 00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:07.259 to create, mount the plays that I want to mount, 00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:09.680 you know, like for those people who are like 00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:11.359 sticking around and fighting the good fight, 00:25:11.500 --> 00:25:17.380 like kudos to you. I'm exhausted. Both choices 00:25:17.380 --> 00:25:21.519 take a lot of courage. Staying and fighting and 00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:26.299 leaving and living. Either way, survival is resistance. 00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:31.940 And art, art is the breadcrumb trails we leave 00:25:31.940 --> 00:25:35.119 each other. Just in case one of us gets lost 00:25:35.119 --> 00:25:39.799 or tired, we take turns. I mean, nobody revolutions 00:25:39.799 --> 00:25:43.109 every day. I think this is the time that we can 00:25:43.109 --> 00:25:46.069 really imitate non -human animals. We have to 00:25:46.069 --> 00:25:49.589 rest. And if you ever need help or someone to 00:25:49.589 --> 00:25:52.609 talk to, the Entertainment Community Fund, formerly 00:25:52.609 --> 00:25:55.450 known as the Actors Fund, is there for you. They 00:25:55.450 --> 00:25:58.170 provide free help to anyone in the entertainment 00:25:58.170 --> 00:26:01.069 industry. And if you don't need help, perhaps 00:26:01.069 --> 00:26:04.049 you can volunteer and help somebody else. But 00:26:04.049 --> 00:26:07.089 hey, from time to time, we all need to pretend 00:26:07.089 --> 00:26:11.980 to be the one person village. Yeah, I don't feel 00:26:11.980 --> 00:26:16.740 safe here. So I'm no good to anyone dead or, 00:26:16.859 --> 00:26:20.980 you know, on a plantation, in a detention center, 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:23.019 on a plantation, wherever they, whatever they've 00:26:23.019 --> 00:26:24.960 got planned for the black and brown people in 00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:28.220 this country. But for those who are like, no, 00:26:28.299 --> 00:26:29.920 I'm staying and fighting the good fight, like, 00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:34.769 good on you. I mean, they shot up a homecoming 00:26:34.769 --> 00:26:38.890 at a Black university and an HBCU, another HBCU 00:26:38.890 --> 00:26:43.509 burned down. Texas State, there are people carrying 00:26:43.509 --> 00:26:47.369 signs that say women and slaves are property. 00:26:47.789 --> 00:26:53.640 Like, I'm just, yeah, it's time to go. And the 00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:57.299 people who create private prisons, owners of 00:26:57.299 --> 00:27:00.299 private prisons are salivating over the promise 00:27:00.299 --> 00:27:04.299 of mass deportation. Just there's too much. There's 00:27:04.299 --> 00:27:06.599 too much going on for me to not feel vulnerable 00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:08.380 and like I need to get the heck out of Dodge. 00:27:08.660 --> 00:27:11.599 So I'm going to do that. But you better believe 00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:16.299 that my plays and stuff will still be here. We 00:27:16.299 --> 00:27:20.900 will figure it out. I just want to thank you 00:27:20.900 --> 00:27:23.339 for, like, good grief. You got literally run 00:27:23.339 --> 00:27:25.940 over by a car. You're just sitting here, like, 00:27:25.980 --> 00:27:32.119 interviewing. This amazing person. Yes, I did 00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:35.019 get run over by a car. A person ran a red light. 00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:37.319 And for a minute, I did not think I would make 00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:41.559 it. But jokes on them. I'm still here. And Payne 00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:47.279 and I, well, we share snacks. You know who else 00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:50.960 is still here? Chisa Hutchinson and her brilliance. 00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:55.119 Her plays will outlive us and continue to inspire 00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:58.460 generations. Her work is linked in the episode 00:27:58.460 --> 00:28:02.920 notes. And to anyone listening, thank you for 00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:06.299 sharing your most valuable asset, your time. 00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:10.420 Now you won't get it back, but hopefully you 00:28:10.420 --> 00:28:13.640 got in a good snack or at least a satisfying 00:28:13.640 --> 00:28:18.029 eye roll. Let's call that even. To anyone feeling 00:28:18.029 --> 00:28:21.230 unsafe, unheard, unwelcome, you're not alone. 00:28:21.529 --> 00:28:24.210 Since the new president, human rights have been 00:28:24.210 --> 00:28:26.549 violated and fundamental rights chipped away. 00:28:26.829 --> 00:28:30.529 But we are not powerless. We are artists, writers, 00:28:30.789 --> 00:28:33.769 producers, creatives, truth -tellers, fashion 00:28:33.769 --> 00:28:37.349 designers, organizers, and communities who have 00:28:37.349 --> 00:28:40.859 been editing the system. So keep sharing your 00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:46.039 voice. Vote. March. Create. Rest. Repeat. Yes, 00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:49.720 you deserve to be at your best to give your best. 00:28:49.980 --> 00:28:53.279 But if you ever do feel powerless, just remember 00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:55.980 that night. Remember that day when that teeny 00:28:55.980 --> 00:28:59.220 tiny mosquito would not let you sleep? That relentless 00:28:59.220 --> 00:29:03.839 taunting buzzing around your ears? Then the surprise 00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:07.839 ankle bites? Oh, you're more powerful than a 00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:12.259 mosquito. As for your artistic expression, it 00:29:12.259 --> 00:29:14.880 infiltrates society and highlights your technical 00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:17.880 and creative skills, as well as the systems that 00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:22.200 abuse it. If it did not matter, why would dictators 00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:26.099 be so busy silencing people and banning books? 00:29:27.460 --> 00:29:30.579 This episode was produced, recorded and mixed 00:29:30.579 --> 00:29:33.720 by Josette Silva. All music and sound design 00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:37.019 are by them as well, except for the one in Fingerpaint 00:29:37.019 --> 00:29:40.329 Politics. That's royalty -free music. Thank you, 00:29:40.329 --> 00:29:43.029 Internet. Rhythms of Progress isn't sponsored. 00:29:43.289 --> 00:29:46.490 Yet. But we are proudly protected by the Screen 00:29:46.490 --> 00:29:49.450 Actors Guild and hang out with other entertainment 00:29:49.450 --> 00:29:53.210 unions and creative communities. And hey, join 00:29:53.210 --> 00:29:56.049 a union, a running club. Follow us on Instagram 00:29:56.049 --> 00:29:58.109 where you will see me make a lush of mistakes. 00:29:58.470 --> 00:30:01.630 Join a funky neighborhood choir. Plant some flowers 00:30:01.630 --> 00:30:03.829 for the bees while your cat takes you on a walk. 00:30:04.619 --> 00:30:07.200 A very special thanks to the University of Delaware's 00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:11.559 WVUD, Steve Karamuk, Dave McKenzie, the entire 00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:15.119 team at the radio station. And remember, honour 00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:16.039 your rhythm.